Talk About Tennis 2.0

Posted: **Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:40 am**

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:13 am ...
Sometimes on Twitter if you move your cursor over a picture that happens. I have no idea why.

At least this isn't a slice of chorizo...

Hey! Don't punch down on the chorizo!!!

(That was such a great joke. And then people complain that scientists have no sense of humor...

)

Posted: **Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:45 pm**

Posted: **Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:54 pm**

Just as I was ruminating about this...

Posted: **Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:29 pm**

Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:49 am This is, in my view, an absolutely excellent first-person article.
I have long felt that the recent 'popular trend' of changing one's gender is in large part a product of the 'political correctness' movement, which uses and exploits individual insecurity to further their very questionable agendas... I've felt that whatever problems or sadness is present in the lives of people who change gender will still be present after the gender change; that the pretty promises that this very radical change will eradicate their problems was a very false - and very dangerous - promise.

This article takes the same position - written by a person who came very close to changing genders, and is immensely thankful that she did not do it.

"If I had gone through with a gender transition, I would have committed suicide"

Various life problems and sadness and depression are profound, complicated issues... They cannot be solved by one action.

Relevant quotation:
“Travelling is a fool's paradise. Our first journeys discover to us the indifference of places. At home I dream that at Naples, at Rome, I can be intoxicated with beauty, and lose my sadness. I pack my trunk, embrace my friends, embark on the sea, and at last wake up in Naples, and there beside me is the stern fact, the sad self, unrelenting, identical, that I fled from. I seek the Vatican, and the palaces. I affect to be intoxicated with sights and suggestions, but I am not intoxicated. My giant goes with me wherever I go.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Sorry to come back to this post 2 weeks later, but it was unanswered and I'm not comfortable with that as a member of TAT and as a moderator. The aim here is to have an inclusive community and, I hope, not tell 1-3% of the population they're a fad.

You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but just want to point out again that there is a huge body of clinical research on gender dysphoria and it is fully valid and recognized on the DSM-5. Gender, like sexuality, can be fluid and this person in the article may have evolved to find themselves in a different place than where they thought they were. That happens, it's a minority. This does not negate millions of people over the years who have lived with a gender different from one assigned at birth - and many died because of it. Any trans or non-binary person I've met have known since childhood - and they're mostly my age, so their childhood was 30+ years ago, way before some acceptance - or become a "popular trend," as you say - came with being transgender. Moreover, no person that transitions has the illusion that transitioning will solve their problems, mental health-related ones or any others. They know transitioning is extremely difficult.

Finally, gender transition is not "one action," it is a years-long, sometimes decades-long process and in fact could mean different things. Most trans people don't actually go through gender affirmation surgery. That's partially due to the potential cost and the difficulty to access the surgery, but many are just fine with hormone treatment and cosmetic procedures. In a few countries (and US states) gender change is just completing an official form, in most, it's jumping through years of medical - and sometimes legal - hoops. No one takes this decision lightly.

Posted: **Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:58 am**

I stand by my post.

Posted: **Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:09 am**

Serious here.
Why is this (gender dysphoria) recognized in the DSM-5, which means it is seen as a "Mental Disorder"? (That is what DSM stands for).

Posted: **Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:21 am**

She could have achieved essentially the same thing in Canada...

American Mother Feels Safer in Ireland...

.

Posted: **Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:33 am**

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:09 am Serious here.
Why is this (gender dysphoria) recognized in the DSM-5, which means it is seen as a "Mental Disorder"? (That is what DSM stands for).

Serious answer that I think answers your implication:
It's a condition that results from living in the wrong sex, so the disorder isn't that the person has something that erroneously makes them think they're in the wrong gender, but that the trauma and the distress caused by living in the wrong gender is so severe as to be a mental health condition.

Think about post-traumatic stress, also on the DSM-5. When someone who, say, lived through a war, experiences a trauma response to gunshot noises, it's because of the trauma connected to those noises (rather than that they are delusional about having gone to war).

Both PTS (formerly PTSD) and gender dysphoria (formerly gender identity disorder) have had the word disorder taken out of the official verbiage precisely to avoid the misconception you are having.

Posted: **Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:35 am**

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:33 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:09 am Serious here.
Why is this (gender dysphoria) recognized in the DSM-5, which means it is seen as a "Mental Disorder"? (That is what DSM stands for).
Serious answer that I think answers your implication:
It's a condition that results from the difficulty of living in the wrong gender, so the disorder isn't that the person has something that erroneously makes them think they're in the wrong gender, but that the trauma and the distress caused by living in the wrong gender is so severe as to be a mental health condition.

Think about post-traumatic stress, also on the DSM-5. When someone who, say, lived through a war, experiences a trauma response to gunshot noises, it's because of the trauma connected to those noises (rather than that they are delusional about having gone to war).

Both PTS (formerly PTSD) and gender dysphoria (formerly gender identity disorder) have had the word disorder taken out of the official verbiage precisely to avoid the misconception you are having.

Posted: **Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:57 pm**

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:33 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:09 am Serious here.
Why is this (gender dysphoria) recognized in the DSM-5, which means it is seen as a "Mental Disorder"? (That is what DSM stands for).
Serious answer that I think answers your implication:
It's a condition that results from living in the wrong sex, so the disorder isn't that the person has something that erroneously makes them think they're in the wrong gender, but that the trauma and the distress caused by living in the wrong gender is so severe as to be a mental health condition.

Think about post-traumatic stress, also on the DSM-5. When someone who, say, lived through a war, experiences a trauma response to gunshot noises, it's because of the trauma connected to those noises (rather than that they are delusional about having gone to war).

Both PTS (formerly PTSD) and gender dysphoria (formerly gender identity disorder) have had the word disorder taken out of the official verbiage precisely to avoid the misconception you are having.

Thanks.
Last post from me in this subject. I don't have a misconception, I have a disagreement.

Posted: **Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:17 pm**

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:57 pm Thanks.
Last post from me in this subject. I don't have a misconception, I have a disagreement.

Your disagreement isn't with me. It's with the medical community

I'll be honest, this is no different to me than being anti-vaxx or people going crazy about GMO foods and chemicals without understanding the science. But at least vaccines or food safety affect one personally, I don't see how there is any stake for you in this.

Posted: **Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:52 pm**

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:17 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:57 pm Thanks.
Last post from me in this subject. I don't have a misconception, I have a disagreement.
Your disagreement isn't with me. It's with the medical community

I'll be honest, this is no different to me than being anti-vaxx or people going crazy about GMO foods and chemicals without understanding the science. But at least vaccines or food safety affect one personally, I don't see how there is any stake for you in this.

For some reason, LGBT+ issues are treated pretty dismissively on this site, depsite a large number of the forum's participants identifying as part of that group. It's my one big complaint and disappointment here.

Posted: **Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:28 pm**

How is that JT? I have yet to read anybody in this site NOT supporting LGBT+ issues: marriage, rights to adoption, rights to love whomever you want. I have yet to read somebody here that is NOT against discrimination based on sexual orientation. In TAT1.0 we were pretty vocal against the discriminatory laws in Russia and other countries. In the Religion thread (TAT1.0), many of the skeptics expressed that one of our main issues with organized religions is their treatment of LGBT+ people: the Bible's open and extremely clear definition of male homosexuality as an "abomination", which we decried (it is truly one of the reasons I detest religion, together with their treatment of women as second class people).
Our support is such that we have banned slurs, done so automatically.
So, we are in 99% of agreement with the LGBT+ community. But then, we have some disagreement on some aspects, and we almost homophobes. We go back to the perfect purity test: 99% is not good enough, it has to be 100%. We enjoy Dave Chapelle, that's it, we are transphobic. We read what JK Rowling says, and we are, again, phobes.
I say it is the opposite. People stay away from the forum because the general atmosphere is that there is no tolerance for dissenting opinions about liberal issues. The one time in which somebody called somebody else "gross" was because of the untouchable subject of equal pay, and it was the supporter for equal pay, not the person posing the question. And, again, that subject is basically impossible to discuss; one member here once said equal pay was right because it was. And that ended the discussion, which I felt was unfair.
I really don't know what else to do to make the site as open to ideas as possible.

Posted: **Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:32 pm**

JTContinental wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:52 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:17 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:57 pm Thanks.
Last post from me in this subject. I don't have a misconception, I have a disagreement.
Your disagreement isn't with me. It's with the medical community

I'll be honest, this is no different to me than being anti-vaxx or people going crazy about GMO foods and chemicals without understanding the science. But at least vaccines or food safety affect one personally, I don't see how there is any stake for you in this.
For some reason, LGBT+ issues are treated pretty dismissively on this site, depsite a large number of the forum's participants identifying as part of that group. It's my one big complaint and disappointment here.

I am a strong advocate for the LGBTQ+ community, but being a new member here I wasn't going to chime in so fast on the subject. I feel as mmmm8 has stated that this is something that a person is living with and not some erroneous circumstance of live such as stress or a mental health issue that makes someone decide they want to change their gender. This is something a person is dealing with internally for a long period of time. Even as they proceed through the long process of transitioning, there is a lot of counseling that is involved. This is certainly not some going with the flow of what society is doing at the moment. Surely, back in my day when I was growing up in the 70's & 80's this was not widely accepted at all, but that did not mean that many were not dealing with the struggles of gender identity inside. So in turn, I believe social acceptance of this has helped many people.

Posted: **Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:35 pm**

Don't fret ponchi - you're doing well as our "boss". Maybe someone here could make the site feel more inclusive than you have, but I'd certainly not bet my savings on it. I probably couldn't.

Talk About Tennis 2.0

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