It's not just "on Internet". I watched the Medvedev's game the other day and umpire was pronouncing his name correctly. And you would imagine that she done it like once each 30 seconds. But Carillo was having none of that (and her co-announcer as well). They were stubborn in their incorrect pronunciation. It's like "I don't give a s**t, I will say it like it is convenient to me". This is why I mentioned disrespect in my original post.mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:34 am Yeah, I don't think the issue is with Slavic names in particular, it just stands out to you, Mick, (and me) as a native speaker. But I do think serious fans (obviously, particularly commentators/media) have a duty to try to learn the accurate pronunciation since it is available on the internet and should certainly make a point to pronounce correctly if they've been corrected by a native speaker or the player themselves, and too many times, the commentators don't correct.
That said, I'm for sure butchering most East Asian names myself, even if I've looked up the correct pronunciation.
Russian names
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Re: Russian names
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Re: Russian names
If I can just chime in here...
In Musetti's name, the "s" is voiced, so it's pronounced like a "z". So it's Mu zet ti .
And the other Lorenzo's last name is SO ne go, not So NE go. The stress is on the first syllable.
Thanks for this post. I think it's important to try to get names right. It shows respect.
Kevin
In Musetti's name, the "s" is voiced, so it's pronounced like a "z". So it's Mu zet ti .
And the other Lorenzo's last name is SO ne go, not So NE go. The stress is on the first syllable.
Thanks for this post. I think it's important to try to get names right. It shows respect.
Kevin
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Re: Russian names
And the worst perpetrator is of course Brad Gilbert. Who can forget "Ralph Nadal". I wonder what would be his reaction if one of interviewed players would intentionally butcher his name - in his face.
If he thinks that this is funny, then his maturity is still on the kindergarten level.
If he thinks that this is funny, then his maturity is still on the kindergarten level.
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Re: Russian names
Yes, I was agreeing with you.mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:44 amIt's not just "on Internet". I watched the Medvedev's game the other day and umpire was pronouncing his name correctly. And you would imagine that she done it like once each 30 seconds. But Carillo was having none of that (and her co-announcer as well). They were stubborn in their incorrect pronunciation. It's like "I don't give a s**t, I will say it like it is convenient to me". This is why I mentioned disrespect in my original post.mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:34 am Yeah, I don't think the issue is with Slavic names in particular, it just stands out to you, Mick, (and me) as a native speaker. But I do think serious fans (obviously, particularly commentators/media) have a duty to try to learn the accurate pronunciation since it is available on the internet and should certainly make a point to pronounce correctly if they've been corrected by a native speaker or the player themselves, and too many times, the commentators don't correct.
That said, I'm for sure butchering most East Asian names myself, even if I've looked up the correct pronunciation.
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Re: Russian names
After he pronounced Gilles Simon's last name like the English first name, some fans started saying Giblert in a francophone manner for fun - "Jill-Bear." That didn't stick for that many, but I know I still say it that way for fun.mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:28 am And the worst perpetrator is of course Brad Gilbert. Who can forget "Ralph Nadal". I wonder what would be his reaction if one of interviewed players would intentionally butcher his name - in his face.
If he thinks that this is funny, then his maturity is still on the kindergarten level.
And, yes, the only ones putting in the effort are the umpires (at least many/most of them). Of course, many of them are not native anglophones and have had their names butchered too.
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Re: Russian names
Players can communicate with umpires and just outright say that "You're pronouncing my name incorrectly". First that I know who's done that was Sveta Kuznetsova. She was fed up with Kuzn-E-tsova. Correct pronunciation is Kuznets-O-va.
Re: Russian names
Honestly, it's just common courtesy. Sometimes I think the players should start saying John Mc -EN-roe or Pam SHREE-ver just to make a point. I heard someone saying SWYE-a-tek the other day. And if the NA commentators say a name a particular way, all the fans in North America think that's how you're supposed to say it, so there's a certain responsibility there too.
Thanks for educating us on Slavic names, Mick! I truly appreciate it.
Thanks for educating us on Slavic names, Mick! I truly appreciate it.
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Re: Russian names
I like some things about BG, but you are totally right on this one. It's like he is proud of his monolingualism. He gleefully mispronounces names all the time.mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:28 am And the worst perpetrator is of course Brad Gilbert. Who can forget "Ralph Nadal". I wonder what would be his reaction if one of interviewed players would intentionally butcher his name - in his face.
If he thinks that this is funny, then his maturity is still on the kindergarten level.
I have one question about correct pronunciation of Slavic names. Is there a rule? I tried to generalize from the examples that you so graciously gave, and it seemed like the syllable before the "ova" suffix was the stressed syllable. But then in the Kuznetsova example it's different. Thanks in advance for any linguistic help you can provide.
Kevin
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Re: Russian names
Kevin, there are some common (similar) cases, but unfortunately there is no "rule", because names carry historical heritage and it could be different in any particular case. Russia has some commonality with US in a sense that it was a boiling pot, where many cultures made their contributions over centuries. To make matters worse, in some cases the name that is spelled exactly the same can be pronounced differently )). The famous example is Ivan-O-V vs Iv-A-nov. Both variations exist. Responsible people would simply ask the player himself/herself. As eusebius pointed out - this is just common courtesy.dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:32 pm I like some things about BG, but you are totally right on this one. It's like he is proud of his monolingualism. He gleefully mispronounces names all the time.
I have one question about correct pronunciation of Slavic names. Is there a rule? I tried to generalize from the examples that you so graciously gave, and it seemed like the syllable before the "ova" suffix was the stressed syllable. But then in the Kuznetsova example it's different. Thanks in advance for any linguistic help you can provide.
Kevin
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Re: Russian names
Thank you! But since there isn't a rule, I hope players can understand why we fans at home get it wrong. But for sure commentators can and should get it right. I think both tours are asking players to say their names correctly and then making those audio clips available on their websites, right?mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:49 pmKevin, there are some common (similar) cases, but unfortunately there is no "rule", because names carry historical heritage and it could be different in any particular case. Russia has some commonality with US in a sense that it was a boiling pot, where many cultures made their contributions over centuries. To make matters worse, in some cases the name that is spelled exactly the same can be pronounced differently )). The famous example is Ivan-O-V vs Iv-A-nov. Both variations exist. Responsible people would simply ask the player himself/herself. As eusebius pointed out - this is just common courtesy.dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:32 pm I like some things about BG, but you are totally right on this one. It's like he is proud of his monolingualism. He gleefully mispronounces names all the time.
I have one question about correct pronunciation of Slavic names. Is there a rule? I tried to generalize from the examples that you so graciously gave, and it seemed like the syllable before the "ova" suffix was the stressed syllable. But then in the Kuznetsova example it's different. Thanks in advance for any linguistic help you can provide.
Kevin
And per someone (Ti-Amie?) else's great idea, I just looked on forvo.com for the pronunciation of Svetlana's and Daniil's names. Svetlana's is pending, and Daniil's is there (though if you don't read Russian you kind of have to guess that what you clicked on is the right choice) and it was actually very hard for me to hear where the stress was in his last name.
Kevin
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Re: Russian names
Actually google translate does a pretty good job with a couple Russian names I tried including Kuznetsova and Medvedev.
For example try Vladivostok (Russian far eastern city) in both English and Russian.
For example try Vladivostok (Russian far eastern city) in both English and Russian.
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Re: Russian names
If Michael Schumacher had a Euro for every time Latin American sportscasters called him MICHAEL (as in American pronunciation) SHOE-MA-CARE (I am trying to imitate Spanish pronunciations) he would be even wealthier.dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:34 pm ...
Thank you! But since there isn't a rule, I hope players can understand why we fans at home get it wrong. But for sure commentators can and should get it right. I think both tours are asking players to say their names correctly and then making those audio clips available on their websites, right?
And per someone (Ti-Amie?) else's great idea, I just looked on forvo.com for the pronunciation of Svetlana's and Daniil's names. Svetlana's is pending, and Daniil's is there (though if you don't read Russian you kind of have to guess that what you clicked on is the right choice) and it was actually very hard for me to hear where the stress was in his last name.
Kevin
Languages are difficult, and we are in perhaps only the second generation of real globalization. I wonder how badly we are butchering Asian names when we mention them.
Ego figere omnia et scio supellectilem
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