'23 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

[mick1303]

Wild guess.....0. (See: Majoli, Iva.)

This analogy is bad. Majoli's next best result in any slam was R16. For Vondrousova it was 2nd final and on a different surface. She is not a fluke.

First, an Iva Majoli analogy is never bad. Which is also why I used the

Next- you are also mistaken. Iva, otherwise, made TWO Slam QF's- at Wimbledon and the Australian Open. And a SF at the WTA Championships. She also won 8 total WTA tournaments, and got to a best world ranking of #4. Very arguably- I was (albeit, unintentionally) doing Vondrousova a favor by using my Majoli analogy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iva_Majoli

IN any case, without first having checked on Iva's results- I still say she'll have her one "lucky" Slam title win, as did Majoli- which was my intended response to Suliso's post. (AND, btw, Majoli beat Hingis in her Slam final.) IF Vondrousova wins more- I am very cool with that. She is a very fun player to watch.

My bad, I was looking at winners column, without thinking that if she won R16, she should've played QF. But general point stands, even if it is QF, she never reached another semis or finals. Vondrousova did - it was her 2nd final. And she only participated in 13 slams (this Wimbledon is her 14th main draw at a slam.

[JTContinental]

I count 21 slams on her Wikipedia page

[ti-amie]

We had a discussion on #tennis #mastodon about whether champions are born or created when talking about this Final. When you talk about Serena, Tiger Woods, Steph Curry, Lebron James, Federer, Nadal, Messi, Christiano Ronaldo and others they walked on the court/course/pitch with the attitude "If you want this beat me because I'm here to beat you."

I think this is a character trait. You can train someone to be very good at a sport. That "extra" comes from within. It's why someone like Jordan could never coach. That extra has to be there from the beginning.

[mick1303]

I count 21 slams on her Wikipedia page

You're right, again was making the same mistake - looked only at wins column.

[nelslus]

This analogy is bad. Majoli's next best result in any slam was R16. For Vondrousova it was 2nd final and on a different surface. She is not a fluke.

First, an Iva Majoli analogy is never bad. Which is also why I used the

Next- you are also mistaken. Iva, otherwise, made TWO Slam QF's- at Wimbledon and the Australian Open. And a SF at the WTA Championships. She also won 8 total WTA tournaments, and got to a best world ranking of #4. Very arguably- I was (albeit, unintentionally) doing Vondrousova a favor by using my Majoli analogy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iva_Majoli

IN any case, without first having checked on Iva's results- I still say she'll have her one "lucky" Slam title win, as did Majoli- which was my intended response to Suliso's post. (AND, btw, Majoli beat Hingis in her Slam final.) IF Vondrousova wins more- I am very cool with that. She is a very fun player to watch.

My bad, I was looking at winners column, without thinking that if she won R16, she should've played QF. But general point stands, even if it is QF, she never reached another semis or finals. Vondrousova did - it was her 2nd final. And she only participated in 13 slams (this Wimbledon is her 14th main draw at a slam.

LOL, like ponchi stating I had made his point....IMO, for me, your point doesn't stand. I've tried to explain why it turns out not to be a bad analogy. Especially as my bottom line had been, and is, that I believe the two will end up with the same # of Slam titles- and, dare I go there- the same with Ostapenko. HAPPY if Vondrousova and Ostapenko win more than one singles Slam title. (Wouldn't shock me if either- especially Ostapenko- win at least one doubles Slam title).

[nelslus]

Wild guess.....0. (See: Majoli, Iva.)

This analogy is bad. Majoli's next best result in any slam was R16. For Vondrousova it was 2nd final and on a different surface. She is not a fluke.

I say she has as much chance as Rybakina and Sabalenka to win two more. But the field is so even that if she never does, that is also likely.

I especially view Rybakina as a better candidate for multiple Slam titles, health permitting. Although, this year, this does not look like a done deal. IN any case, let's get ready for a US Open win for Lauren "Bad Analogy" Davis.

[ashkor87]

Also remember that only genuine tier 1 players can win Wimby..it is unique to W that, in recent times, W champions have already won a major, or will win another, in their career..only Bartoli is a one-time champion..Rybakina has many years to go..so yes, history says Vondrousova will win at least one more major...

[ponchi101]

Novotna, Conchita, Stich, Cash, Goran, Bartoli (you mentioned her).
I agree with your idea, but the list is not empty (one time Wimby champs that never won another slam anywhere else). Marketa and Elena are both 24, so they can be grouped. And the stats are very similar: one slam, one other slam final.
To me is the same: the evenness in the WTA is so extreme that winning ANY major is so hard. I know you don't agree with my idea that OTHER is always there but, we are still pending one slam and we already have two new slam winners. We may be looking at Mugu's by the end of the decade: two slams, two more RU's.

[ashkor87]

Novotna, Conchita, Stich, Cash, Goran, Bartoli (you mentioned her).
I agree with your idea, but the list is not empty (one time Wimby champs that never won another slam anywhere else). Marketa and Elena are both 24, so they can be grouped. And the stats are very similar: one slam, one other slam final.
To me is the same: the evenness in the WTA is so extreme that winning ANY major is so hard. I know you don't agree with my idea that OTHER is always there but, we are still pending one slam and we already have two new slam winners. We may be looking at Mugu's by the end of the decade: two slams, two more RU's.

I meant women only. And Concita/Novotna were a long time ago..previous century! hence my 'recent times' qualifier

[ashkor87]

Novotna, Conchita, Stich, Cash, Goran, Bartoli (you mentioned her).
I agree with your idea, but the list is not empty (one time Wimby champs that never won another slam anywhere else). Marketa and Elena are both 24, so they can be grouped. And the stats are very similar: one slam, one other slam final.
To me is the same: the evenness in the WTA is so extreme that winning ANY major is so hard. I know you don't agree with my idea that OTHER is always there but, we are still pending one slam and we already have two new slam winners. We may be looking at Mugu's by the end of the decade: two slams, two more RU's.

BTW this statement of mine does Not apply to aby other slam..my point is it takes class to win Wimbledon..other majors can possibly be won by some 'other'

[ashkor87]

Meanwhile another big upset yesterday.. Australian and French Open junior champ Korneeva lost in the semis!

[mick1303]

Rybakina with 68.5 and Sabalenka with 68.6 career win-loss percentages have IMO significantly higher chances to add more hardware than Vondrousova. They also both have multiple Tier I titles, while Vondrousova has only one 250. Unlike ATP, where slams stand out with their best of five format, WTA slams IMO are less distinctive from regular tour events, and success rate has more correlation between slams and other events. Nonetheless, there is such thing as "big match player", who tends to over-perform on big occasions. Vondrousova may turn out to be just that.