'22 RG Day 9 OoP & Discussion

[Suliso]

Tsitsipas is definitely a much bigger star than Jabeur. On the other hand he lost much later and to a much better player. Had he lost to someone like Zapata Miralles in R1 it would have been an upset of the year.

[ponchi101]

About Rune's unpopularity.
I would only say that It wasn't a homophobic slur. He said, TO HIMSELF, "Don't play like (a small cat)", although he was not as elegant in his choice of words as Daniiil. He did not aim it to anybody; he was talking to himself.
As Suliso says, nothing else comes to mind. And I think he had not even turned 18 yet.

[Deuce]

Zheng hurt her thigh early in the 2nd set... but didn't seem all that hampered by it in the 3rd.

I see parallels between Keys and Anisimova... both have the strokes and the game to be dominant, but are too fragile psychologically.

What is Tsitsipas main weapon?

His father.

[meganfernandez]

Zheng, another pioneer in breaking the period stigma. Pretty amazing for her take a set off Swiatek having bad cramps.

[JazzNU]

About Rune's unpopularity.
I would only say that It wasn't a homophobic slur. He said, TO HIMSELF, "Don't play like (a small cat)", although he was not as elegant in his choice of words as Daniiil. He did not aim it to anybody; he was talking to himself.
As Suliso says, nothing else comes to mind. And I think he had not even turned 18 yet.

It was a homophonic slur. You're downplaying to a pretty decent extent what he was yelling. He was fined by the ATP for the things that he said, there's coverage of it. There's video of it. There's Danish people that have translated it multiple times. It's not really in question what he said, and it wasn't just what you wrote.

People barely knew it happened because it was on the Challenger tour, but news of it spread pretty well on Tennis Social Media soon after it occurred and because of the video in particular, it's known, but not by the general tennis viewing audience. He's gonna take a few more licks on this now that he's getting to be more in the public eye.

People will move on eventually, but it wasn't a good look and it wasn't long enough ago for it to be a non-issue. He didn't help matters in terms of Tennis Social Media moving on from this by giving one of the sh!ttiest apologies ever on his IG afterwards.

https://www.ubitennis.net/2021/06/holge ... c-remarks/

[dmforever]

"Don't play like a small cat" isn't homophobic at all. Misogynist, but not homophobic. It wouldn't make sense to say that he was homophobic if that was all that he had said. He also said "You play like a bundle of sticks" and "Go you bundle of sticks". You're right that saying it to himself isn't as bad as if he said it to someone else, but it's still bad and definitely a slur. And yes, you are right, we've probably all done bad things when we were teens, but there's bad and then there's bad.

If that was a one off, then people will forget. We'll see. I'm skeptical that someone who uses a word like that at his age is not a male member. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Kevin

[ponchi101]

The guy was 17, and he is not an American. You have to understand that a lot of people that learn English will do so and watch a lot of American movies, and will not know the nuances of a word because they see it used in situations that are not real. Confusion happens, and I talk from experience.
And, different cultural backgrounds. I know this board is mostly American, but this idea that everything is offensive and everybody has to apologize all the time is uniquely American. In other cultures, what you say about yourself, well, is about yourself. Nobody should be offended by that, unless you are so insane you get offended by what you tell yourself.

[JazzNU]

The guy was 17, and he is not an American. You have to understand that a lot of people that learn English will do so and watch a lot of American movies, and will not know the nuances of a word because they see it used in situations that are not real. Confusion happens, and I talk from experience.
And, different cultural backgrounds. I know this board is mostly American, but this idea that everything is offensive and everybody has to apologize all the time is uniquely American. In other cultures, what you say about yourself, well, is about yourself. Nobody should be offended by that, unless you are so insane you get offended by what you tell yourself.

I mentioned that many Danish people were translating what he said for fans early on and they were disappointed to hear him using the words. This isn't just about an American perspective.

[jazzyg]

I was not that surprised by Tsitsipas losing because he played an awful match against Zverev (which he won) in Rome before playing another awful match against Djokovic (which he lost, badly) in the final. He has the full package when he is playing well, but he was very inconsistent on his forehand and was winning points primarily by playing defense. Rune, after losing his first three matches on clay this year, is 20-4 since then.

Jabeur losing to Linette was shocking to me, but I agree she may have been overcooked, a factor I almost always disregard but one that I shouldn't.

On another note, I like Cilic to get to the final. He's capable of falling apart, particularly with his forehand, but he appears to be in that mode he gets into every few years at an odd slam where he is rock solid. If he wins two more matches, he will join the Big 3 plus Murray as the only active players to appear in all four slam finals.

I had Kasatkina making the semis when the tournament started. She looked really good in the lead-up tournaments. But I was wrong about almost everyone else, with Gauff the only other quarterfinalist I predicted other than Swiatek.

[JTContinental]

In her press conference yesterday, Zheng mentioned that menstrual cramps were hampering her in the second and third sets of her match against Swiatek.

[JTContinental]

The guy was 17, and he is not an American. You have to understand that a lot of people that learn English will do so and watch a lot of American movies, and will not know the nuances of a word because they see it used in situations that are not real. Confusion happens, and I talk from experience.
And, different cultural backgrounds. I know this board is mostly American, but this idea that everything is offensive and everybody has to apologize all the time is uniquely American. In other cultures, what you say about yourself, well, is about yourself. Nobody should be offended by that, unless you are so insane you get offended by what you tell yourself.

I dunno--slurs are still slurs even if you are saying them about yourself. I don't think that's a uniquely American concept, actually, and if you put that sh*t out into the world, the world is going to rightfully respond.

His comment implies small bundles of sticks can't play tennis well. However, I always play tennis like a full bundle of small sticks, and I usually win.

[dmforever]

The guy was 17, and he is not an American. You have to understand that a lot of people that learn English will do so and watch a lot of American movies, and will not know the nuances of a word because they see it used in situations that are not real. Confusion happens, and I talk from experience.
And, different cultural backgrounds. I know this board is mostly American, but this idea that everything is offensive and everybody has to apologize all the time is uniquely American. In other cultures, what you say about yourself, well, is about yourself. Nobody should be offended by that, unless you are so insane you get offended by what you tell yourself.

He wasn't speaking in English. It was his L1.

And this comment is EXACTLY what I was referring to in other posts about this site not being nearly as gay friendly as you think it is. I super super resent being told that I shouldn't be offended by someone yelling a really homophobic term, even if it's not directed at me. Even if the person is saying it to himself. I guess I'm that insane.

Kevin

[ponchi101]

And aren't you making my point? You are American and you are offended by what somebody said to himself. Not aimed at anybody else other than the same person that said it.
And in other cultures, we don't see it that way.
If this forum is not open to any sexual inclination somebody may have, well, I wonder what else we could do.

[dmforever]

And aren't you making my point? You are American and you are offended by what somebody said to himself. Not aimed at anybody else other than the same person that said it.
And in other cultures, we don't see it that way.
If this forum is not open to any sexual inclination somebody may have, well, I wonder what else we could do.

It's not just an American thing. The article that Jazz posted said that Danes weren't happy about it. They aren't American. And ask other LGBTQ folk from other places. That fact that you aren't offended doesn't mean it isn't offensive to a lot of other people.
And I didn't say it wasn't open in the sense that you don't stop LGBTQ people from posting. What I said was it isn't as inclusive at you think it is.

Anyway, I realize it's not worth discussing anymore. Thanks.

Kevin

[JTContinental]

I would argue that if he said it on live television loud enough to be heard by a bunch of people all over the world that he didn't really say it to himself.

I'm surprised at the doubling down here on a concept that is both reductive and absurd. Maybe that is the case for a certain generation, but the language you use definitely means a lot more to people today than ever before. Surely if the word in question was replaced with a racial slur, you wouldn't think, "Well, he's just calling himself that; no offense is meant," and that the rest of the non-American world would agree with that sentiment.