Talk About Tennis 2.0

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 2:28 am Then why didn’t she ever test positive until once in Aug 2022 and also not afterward? 200 negative tests, 1 positive test. Is the testing that bad? Is it that easy to evade with timing? If so, the system doesn’t work at all.

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 3:23 am From the Guardian: As part of the case, a woman of a similar height and stature was given the same amount of Keto MCT as Halep [took] before her positive test. However the control study found that the values of the banned drug in Halep’s urine test were between “46 and 85 times higher” than in the highest value of the volunteer’s urine.

My question: how was there Roxadustat in the MCT that the woman took for the investigation? Was it manufactured that way just for this test? Doubtful, so where did it come from? The same batch as Halep’s medicine? They were able to get some months later? And if they did bake it up for the test, how did they know how much Roxadustat to put in it? They would have had to know how much was in Halep’s contaminated sample.

I don’t get this at all.

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 3:23 am From the Guardian: As part of the case, a woman of a similar height and stature was given the same amount of Keto MCT as Halep [took] before her positive test. However the control study found that the values of the banned drug in Halep’s urine test were between “46 and 85 times higher” than in the highest value of the volunteer’s urine.

My question: how was there Roxadustat in the MCT that the woman took for the investigation? Was it manufactured that way just for this test? Doubtful, so where did it come from? The same batch as Halep’s medicine? They were able to get some months later? And if they did bake it up for the test, how did they know how much Roxadustat to put in it? They would have had to know how much was in Halep’s contaminated sample.

I don’t get this at all.

skatingfan wrote:

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 2:28 am Then why didn’t she ever test positive until once in Aug 2022 and also not afterward? 200 negative tests, 1 positive test. Is the testing that bad? Is it that easy to evade with timing? If so, the system doesn’t work at all.

Because blood tests aren't that common.

skatingfan wrote:

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 3:23 am From the Guardian: As part of the case, a woman of a similar height and stature was given the same amount of Keto MCT as Halep [took] before her positive test. However the control study found that the values of the banned drug in Halep’s urine test were between “46 and 85 times higher” than in the highest value of the volunteer’s urine.

My question: how was there Roxadustat in the MCT that the woman took for the investigation? Was it manufactured that way just for this test? Doubtful, so where did it come from? The same batch as Halep’s medicine? They were able to get some months later? And if they did bake it up for the test, how did they know how much Roxadustat to put in it? They would have had to know how much was in Halep’s contaminated sample.

I don’t get this at all.

As I understand it the drug Roxadustat is commonly used to treat anemia in places like China, and so obtaining Keto MCT with Roxadustat would be simple, and in the trial the individual took the recommended dose of the product.

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:36 am ...
i have given up trying to understand it.. which is why I am advocating a simpler approach - either Nothing is Permitted or Everything is Permitted.. this arcane and complex analysis rewards only 'experts' and lawyers.. surely a waste of resources globally. If the 'experts' are any good, they would be better employed helping some sick people, as for the lawyers... nothing would make them better employed!

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 3:03 pm What they would need to do is to try to set up a baseline.
Get a sample and "lace it" with Roxadustat. Say, 10 mg of the drug. Then, give it to a test person, and just see how much is detected in the doping test. That way, they would now know that if Simona's test returned X mg of the drug, she would have had to have taken X amount of the initial dose. Running the test for the test person over several days would give you a baseline of the time the drug would remain in the system and what the half-life of the drug would be.
Then, if indeed they detected a concentration as high as 85 times higher than in the volunteer's urine, they would know how much the intake had to be. And from there, determining if that amount could be possibly ingested by accident or contamination would be based on at least some set of numerical data.
The question would be backwards. It is not "how much we have to contaminate the sample with to reach Simona's results?". it is "How much contamination there had to be for Simona's claim that this was accidental match the results of the samples obtained from her?".

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 4:25 pm Then why not Nothing is Permitted..not even aspirin..would be good for everyone (full disclosure..I don't take even aspirin unless I am about to die..that hasn't happened yet,but could happen I grant)..why are some things allowed at all? even a pain killer can enhance performance!

Alvarez submitted two reports of his Matrix methodology on the Keto MCT samples. The second report showed significantly lower concentrations of Roxadustat than the first report. He did this to try and prove to the Tribunal that Eichner’s SMRTL methodology wasn’t detecting Roxadustat because it couldn’t detect traces small enough. But then those lower values completely invalidated the contamination defence on the whole. Truly a self goal.