The Tiny Scandals and Trials

News and commentary on trials, the law, and expert opinions about legal systems
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The Tiny Scandals and Trials

#1

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This happened today

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Re: The Tiny Scandals and Trials

#2

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WSJ paywall
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Re: The Tiny Scandals and Trials

#3

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Re: The Tiny Scandals and Trials

#4

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I'm trying this out as an alternative to the Politics and Hades thread. I think the title is meh. Let me know what you think guys.
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Re: The Tiny Scandals and Trials

#5

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Eric Garland
@ericgarland
"Right now, let's consider the ethics of these two craven, seditious rectal boils...especially since we don't know everything they may have done..." #ominous #foreshadowing

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On its face, it sure seems like at the very least Cruz and Hawley could be part of 18 U.S. Code § 371, conspiracy to defraud the United States.
Add physical *force* and you're closer to 18 U.S. Code § 2384, seditious conspiracy.
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Given the physical threats already incited by Trump against *Republican* officials, it's not like Cruz and Hawley didn't know what Trump was up to.
In fact, they decided to join Trump after this escalation toward insurrection.
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It seems pretty evident that Cruz and Hawley are part of Trump's criminal conspiracy to defraud the United States of America.
But when the rhetoric turns toward the word FIGHT, we're getting closer to sedition, because of the potential addition of physical force.
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Split because of URL limits. P1
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Re: The Tiny Scandals and Trials

#6

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P2

Now prosecutors would know for sure, but at some point does a conspiracy get so big that this might be RICO Seditious Conspiracy? With, like, a kingpin.
Just a French major here; attorneys please leave your theories.
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Wow, this conspiracy has coordinated action with so many people! Far beyond this Senate's ability to investigate the ethical implications! Gonna need some FBI! Since members of the conspiracy were planning on what sounds like insurrection.
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Hawley, of course, saluted the terrorists, some of whom intended to kill public servants, and some who succeeded within a couple hours.
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Hawley and Cruz kept up the same rhetoric even after several people died right near where they were voting only hours before.
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Re: The Tiny Scandals and Trials

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Re: The Tiny Scandals and Trials

#8

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ti-amie wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:57 pm I'm trying this out as an alternative to the Politics and Hades thread. I think the title is meh. Let me know what you think guys.
You know my option. The only issue with this title is that the two people that call him TINY on a regular basis are you and I.
Go to the first post of this topic. Edit it. You can start a poll, even if this thing has been on for weeks now. And propose some names. :)
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Re: The Tiny Scandals and Trials

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I'm crappy with names.

Dry calls him Tiny too.
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Re: The Tiny Scandals and Trials

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Senate ends standoff, agrees to start Trump’s impeachment trial Feb. 9

By
Mike DeBonis
Jan. 22, 2021 at 12:36 p.m. EST

The impeachment trial of former president Donald Trump will begin Feb. 9 under a deal reached Friday by top Senate leaders — delaying by two weeks the high-stakes proceedings over whether Trump incited the violent Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.

The agreement was made by Senate Majority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) following a standoff over the timing of the trial, which could permanently bar Trump from holding public office.

The House on Jan. 13 passed a sole impeachment article, alleging “incitement of insurrection.” House leaders could have forced the Senate to begin the trial immediately by transmitting the papers across the Capitol. But a delay serves the former and current presidents: Trump has struggled to assemble a legal team and muster a defense, and Biden needs the Senate to confirm most of his Cabinet appointees.

McConnell pushed Thursday for a three-week delay, but Schumer and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) on Friday morning announced their intention to deliver the impeachment papers Monday — setting up a trial as soon as Tuesday. Later in the day, Biden publicly called for a delay, saying, “the more time we have to get up and running to meet these crises, the better.”

Announcing the two-week timetable Friday, Schumer said the wait would allow the Senate to make further progress on Biden’s nominations and his $2 trillion pandemic relief proposal — the centerpiece of his early legislative agenda — before shifting to Trump.

“We all want to put this awful chapter in our nation’s history behind us, but healing and unity will only come if there is truth and accountability, and that is what this trial will provide,” he said.

Doug Andres, a spokesman for McConnell, called the agreement “a win for due process and fairness.”

“Republicans set out to ensure the Senate’s next steps will respect former president Trump’s rights and due process, the institution of the Senate, and the office of the presidency,” he said. “That goal has been achieved.”

Had no accord been reached, the trial would have started Tuesday and run uninterrupted by other Senate business until the Senate rendered its verdict. The agreement does not resolve another brewing conflict between Schumer and McConnell: over how the Senate will handle a 50-50 partisan split, with Vice President Harris breaking ties in Democrats’ favor.

The trial agreement came as some rank-and-file Democrats expressed alarm at the prospect of putting the new president’s priorities on hold to focus the nation’s attention on Trump.

“I want to focus as much attention right now on the Biden agenda as possible and minimize the attention on anything other than the Biden agenda,” said Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.).

Kaine is part of a small group of Democrats pushing the idea of passing a resolution stating that Trump violated the 14th Amendment — which forbids federal officials from ever holding office if they “engaged in insurrection or rebellion” against the government — and in that manner ban him from running again for president.

The debate over the trial’s timing played out through the day Friday. Announcing the plan to transmit the single article to the Senate on Monday, Pelosi said in a morning statement that Trump “will have had the same amount of time to prepare for trial as our managers.”

Around the same time on the Senate floor, Schumer said he and McConnell continued to discuss the “timing and duration” of the trial.

“But make no mistake, a trial will be held in the United States Senate, and there will be a vote on whether to convict the president,” he said, adding: “It will be a full trial; it will be a fair trial.”

McConnell and other Republican senators, meanwhile, publicly warned that rushing into the trial after the rapid House impeachment vote — which took place one week after the Capitol riot, with no evidentiary hearings or opportunity for Trump to mount a defense — would taint the process.

“Senate Republicans strongly believe we need a full and fair process where the former president can mount a defense and the Senate can properly consider the factual, legal and constitutional questions at stake,” McConnell said Friday.

Democrats could not ignore the warning, since McConnell is among a small group of Senate Republicans who have signaled deep unease with Trump’s conduct surrounding the Jan. 6 riot. Many Democrats doubt McConnell will ultimately vote to convict Trump, despite his remarks this week that the mob was “provoked by the president and other powerful people,” but they understand that they must have his support if the Senate is ultimately going to bar Trump from future office.

Another potential Republican vote for conviction, Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska), also expressed reservations Friday about a rushed trial. “The process has to be fair,” she said.

Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), a key Trump ally, told reporters it would be “ridiculous” for Democrats not to agree to at least some delay, noting that Trump retained the first member of his defense team — South Carolina lawyer Butch Bowers — only on Thursday.

“If the trial starts right away, that would be an affront to everything every American claims to hold near and dear,” Graham said. “You get a chance to defend yourself.”

In the nine days since the House impeached Trump, Democrats — including Biden — had floated the possibility that the Senate could come to an agreement to both conduct Trump’s trial and proceed with regular business simultaneously, but Republicans made clear they were not interested in a split schedule.

“Once we take the trial up, we have to do the trial,” Graham said. “If you want to impeach the president, we’re going to do it like we’ve always done it. We’re not going to split the day. . . . That’s the business of the Senate once we go into it.”

Though senators of both parties have suggested this trial could be shorter than Trump’s first trial, which wrapped up in February after 21 days, there are no guarantees of such brevity. The House managers or Trump’s lawyers, for instance, could seek to call witnesses and present evidence, extending the proceedings indefinitely.

Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), the No. 3 GOP leader, said that once the trial begins, “the opportunity for President Biden to get a Cabinet in place is done until impeachment is done.”

“This basically stops President Biden in his tracks at a time when a number of Republicans believe that President Biden ought to be able to put a Cabinet in place,” he said.

The Senate confirmed Avril Haines as director of national intelligence on Wednesday and confirmed Lloyd Austin as defense secretary on Friday.

As Senate leaders sparred over the timing and structure of the trial, more Senate Republicans signaled Friday that they are uncomfortable with holding a trial for an ex-president.

Under the Constitution, Trump could suffer “disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States,” and the House impeachment article seeks to do that.

Graham and others have urged colleagues to reject the notion that a president can be tried after leaving office, leaving moot the implications of his conduct — which includes spreading baseless claims that Biden lost the November election, urging his vice president to reject duly cast electoral college votes, summoning his supporters to rally in Washington as Congress finalized Biden’s win and ordering them that day to march to the Capitol.

Schumer sought to rebut that argument Friday on the Senate floor. “It makes no sense whatsoever that a president or any official could commit a heinous crime against our country, and then be permitted to resign, so as to avoid accountability and a vote to disbar them from future office,” he said.

Other GOP senators in recent days have aired misgivings about the process, signaling that they are disinclined to support a conviction — which will require 17 Republicans to join all 50 Democrats and independents who caucus with Democrats.

“We kind of have an inkling of what the outcome is going to be,” said Sen. John Cornyn (R-Tex.). “I mean, Democrats this time didn’t even bother to go through the motions of getting sworn testimony and having hearings in the House. This is not a serious effort. It is a serious issue, but it’s not a serious effort to comply with the requirements of due process of the Constitution when it comes to impeachment.”

Paul Kane contributed to this report.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
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Re: The Tiny Scandals and Trials

#11

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Trump and Justice Dept. Lawyer Said to Have Plotted to Oust Acting Attorney General
Trying to find another avenue to push his baseless election claims, Donald Trump considered installing a loyalist, and had the men make their cases to him.

Image
Jeffrey Clark, who led the Justice Department’s civil division, had been working with President Donald J. Trump to devise ways to cast doubt on the election results.Credit...Susan Walsh/Associated Press


By Katie Benner
Jan. 22, 2021, 7:44 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department’s top leaders listened in stunned silence this month: One of their peers, they were told, had devised a plan with President Donald J. Trump to oust Jeffrey A. Rosen as acting attorney general and wield the department’s power to force Georgia state lawmakers to overturn its presidential election results.

The unassuming lawyer who worked on the plan, Jeffrey Clark, had been devising ways to cast doubt on the election results and to bolster Mr. Trump’s continuing legal battles and the pressure on Georgia politicians. Because Mr. Rosen had refused the president’s entreaties to carry out those plans, Mr. Trump was about to decide whether to fire Mr. Rosen and replace him with Mr. Clark.

The department officials, convened on a conference call, then asked each other: What will you do if Mr. Rosen is dismissed?

The answer was unanimous. They would resign.

Their informal pact ultimately helped persuade Mr. Trump to keep Mr. Rosen in place, calculating that a furor over mass resignations at the top of the Justice Department would eclipse any attention on his baseless accusations of voter fraud. Mr. Trump’s decision came only after Mr. Rosen and Mr. Clark made their competing cases to him in a bizarre White House meeting that two officials compared with an episode of Mr. Trump’s reality show “The Apprentice,” albeit one that could prompt a constitutional crisis.


The previously unknown chapter was the culmination of the president’s long-running effort to batter the Justice Department into advancing his personal agenda. He also pressed Mr. Rosen to appoint special counsels, including one who would look into Dominion Voting Systems, a maker of election equipment that Mr. Trump’s allies had falsely said was working with Venezuela to flip votes from Mr. Trump to Joseph R. Biden Jr.

This account of the department’s final days under Mr. Trump’s leadership is based on interviews with four former Trump administration officials who asked not to be named because of fear of retaliation.

Mr. Clark said that this account contained inaccuracies but did not specify, adding that he could not discuss any conversations with Mr. Trump or Justice Department lawyers. “Senior Justice Department lawyers, not uncommonly, provide legal advice to the White House as part of our duties,” he said. “All my official communications were consistent with law.”

Mr. Clark also noted that he was the lead signatory on a Justice Department request last month asking a federal judge to reject a lawsuit that sought to pressure Vice President Mike Pence to overturn the results of the election.

Mr. Trump declined to comment. An adviser said that Mr. Trump has consistently argued that the justice system should investigate “rampant election fraud that has plagued our system for years.”

The adviser added that “any assertion to the contrary is false and being driven by those who wish to keep the system broken.”

A Justice Department spokesman declined to comment, as did Mr. Rosen.

When Mr. Trump said on Dec. 14 that Attorney General William P. Barr was leaving the department, some officials thought that he might allow Mr. Rosen a short reprieve before pressing him about voter fraud. After all, Mr. Barr would be around for another week.

Instead, Mr. Trump summoned Mr. Rosen to the Oval Office the next day. He wanted the Justice Department to file legal briefs supporting his allies’ lawsuits seeking to overturn his election loss. And he urged Mr. Rosen to appoint special counsels to investigate not only unfounded accusations of widespread voter fraud, but also Dominion, the voting machines firm.

Mr. Rosen refused. He maintained that he would make decisions based on the facts and the law, and he reiterated what Mr. Barr had privately told Mr. Trump: The department had investigated voting irregularities and found no evidence of widespread fraud.

But Mr. Trump continued to press Mr. Rosen after the meeting — in phone calls and in person. He repeatedly said that he did not understand why the Justice Department had not found evidence that supported conspiracy theories about the election that some of his personal lawyers had espoused. He declared that the department was not fighting hard enough for him.

As Mr. Rosen and the deputy attorney general, Richard P. Donoghue, pushed back, they were unaware that Mr. Clark had been introduced to Mr. Trump by a Pennsylvania politician and had told the president that he agreed that fraud had affected the election results.

Mr. Trump quickly embraced Mr. Clark, who had been appointed the acting head of the civil division in September and was also the head of the department’s environmental and natural resources division.

As December wore on, Mr. Clark mentioned to Mr. Rosen and Mr. Donoghue that he spent a lot of time reading on the internet — a comment that alarmed them because they inferred that he believed the unfounded conspiracy theory that Mr. Trump had won the election. Mr. Clark also told them that he wanted the department to hold a news conference announcing that it was investigating serious accusations of election fraud. Mr. Rosen and Mr. Donoghue rejected the proposal.

As Mr. Trump focused increasingly on Georgia, a state he lost narrowly to Mr. Biden, he complained to Justice Department leaders that the U.S. attorney in Atlanta, Byung J. Pak, was not trying to find evidence for false election claims pushed by Mr. Trump’s lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani and others. Mr. Donoghue warned Mr. Pak that the president was now fixated on his office, and that it might not be tenable for him to continue to lead it, according to two people familiar with the conversation.


That conversation and Mr. Trump’s efforts to pressure Georgia’s Republican secretary of state to “find” him votes compelled Mr. Pak to abruptly resign this month.

Mr. Clark was also focused on Georgia. He drafted a letter that he wanted Mr. Rosen to send to Georgia state legislators that wrongly said that the Justice Department was investigating accusations of voter fraud in their state, and that they should move to void Mr. Biden’s win there.

Mr. Rosen and Mr. Donoghue again rejected Mr. Clark’s proposal.

On New Year’s Eve, the trio met to discuss Mr. Clark’s refusal to hew to the department’s conclusion that the election results were valid. Mr. Donoghue flatly told Mr. Clark that what he was doing was wrong. The next day, Mr. Clark told Mr. Rosen — who had mentored him while they worked together at the law firm Kirkland & Ellis — that he was going to discuss his strategy to the president early the next week, just before Congress was set to certify Mr. Biden’s electoral victory.

Unbeknown to the acting attorney general, Mr. Clark’s timeline moved up. He met with Mr. Trump over the weekend, then informed Mr. Rosen midday on Sunday that the president intended to replace him with Mr. Clark, who could then try to stop Congress from certifying the Electoral College results. He said that Mr. Rosen could stay on as his deputy attorney general, leaving Mr. Rosen speechless.


Unwilling to step down without a fight, Mr. Rosen said that he needed to hear straight from Mr. Trump and worked with the White House counsel, Pat A. Cipollone, to convene a meeting for early that evening.

Even as Mr. Clark’s pronouncement was sinking in, stunning news broke out of Georgia: State officials had recorded an hourlong call, published by The Washington Post, during which Mr. Trump pressured them to manufacture enough votes to declare him the victor. As the fallout from the recording ricocheted through Washington, the president’s desperate bid to change the outcome in Georgia came into sharp focus.

Mr. Rosen and Mr. Donoghue pressed ahead, informing Steven Engel, the head of the Justice Department’s office of legal counsel, about Mr. Clark’s latest maneuver. Mr. Donoghue convened a late-afternoon call with the department’s remaining senior leaders, laying out Mr. Clark’s efforts to replace Mr. Rosen.

Mr. Rosen planned to soon head to the White House to discuss his fate, Mr. Donoghue told the group. Should Mr. Rosen be fired, they all agreed to resign en masse. For some, the plan brought to mind the so-called Saturday Night Massacre of the Nixon era, where Attorney General Elliot L. Richardson and his deputy resigned rather than carry out the president’s order to fire the special prosecutor investigating him.

The Clark plan, the officials concluded, would seriously harm the department, the government and the rule of law. For hours, they anxiously messaged and called one another as they awaited Mr. Rosen’s fate.


Around 6 p.m., Mr. Rosen, Mr. Donoghue and Mr. Clark met at the White House with Mr. Trump, Mr. Cipollone, his deputy Patrick Philbin and other lawyers. Mr. Trump had Mr. Rosen and Mr. Clark present their arguments to him.

Mr. Cipollone advised the president not to fire Mr. Rosen and he reiterated, as he had for days, that he did not recommend sending the letter to Georgia lawmakers. Mr. Engel advised Mr. Trump that he and the department’s remaining top officials would resign if he fired Mr. Rosen, leaving Mr. Clark alone at the department.

Mr. Trump seemed somewhat swayed by the idea that firing Mr. Rosen would trigger not only chaos at the Justice Department, but also congressional investigations and possibly recriminations from other Republicans and distract attention from his efforts to overturn the election results.

After nearly three hours, Mr. Trump ultimately decided that Mr. Clark’s plan would fail, and he allowed Mr. Rosen to stay.

Mr. Rosen and his deputies concluded they had weathered the turmoil. Once Congress certified Mr. Biden’s victory, there would be little for them to do until they left along with Mr. Trump in two weeks.

They began to exhale days later as the Electoral College certification at the Capitol got underway. And then they received word: The building had been breached.

Maggie Haberman contributed reporting from New York.

Katie Benner covers the Justice Department. She was part of a team that won a Pulitzer Prize in 2018 for public service for reporting on workplace sexual harassment issues. @ktbenner

A version of this article appears in print on Jan. 23, 2021 of the New York edition with the headline: Mutiny Halted Trump Scheme In Justice Dept

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/22/us/p ... 2afbcd939d
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Re: The Tiny Scandals and Trials

#12

Post by ponchi101 »

Delaying the trial for two weeks allows both parties to prepare their cases better.
And at the rate that every single person being arrested by the FBI is singing that they did it because "the president told us", it might be good for the prosecution.
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Re: The Tiny Scandals and Trials

#13

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“Do not grow old, no matter how long you live. Never cease to stand like curious children before the Great Mystery into which we were born.” Albert Einstein
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Re: The Tiny Scandals and Trials

#14

Post by ponchi101 »

So the GOP'ers that vote to impeach do not have to face the consequences? Maybe that way some of the cowards can switch over...
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Re: The Tiny Scandals and Trials

#15

Post by ti-amie »

I disagree with Kurt on this one. If you have no problem with what happened on January 6 then your vote showing your opinion should be public. There is no way they should be allowed to hide.

This is why I could never be a politician.
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