Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

[skatingfan]

I agree.

I disagree - this a tired argument that every aging player makes when the pace of the game starts to pass them by. Just because younger players can hit the ball harder - Jannik Sinner - doesn't mean that there's no tactics, but it might mean that the tactics have changed, and just because Nadal can't keep up is no reason to disparage younger players.

[ti-amie]

I have to disagree skating.

Rafa has always played the way described in the interview. He's always had the patience to play clay, something many players lack today. He learned the quicker responses needed to play hard court tennis and grass but his game was always tactical.

The top players today (I guess with one major exception. I don't watch his matches) do play way behind the baseline and get into long rallies (Rublev for example) and wait for the mistake but that leads to a discussion of how the courts have been slowed to adapt to technology and whether the really fast hard courts of the '90's are going to make a come back (I hope not. It's so boring.)

I'm just hoping his comeback is moderately successful. I don't expect dazzling play from him especially in Australia.

[meganfernandez]

I don't know how Kyrgios made it onto this list and Safin didn't. #justsaying

Laver (huge omission) is a GOAT - he won 2 Grand Slams! McEnroe is a Legend. Murray is a Great - his lowly count of 3 Slams is deceiving in the Big 4 era, and he won 2 Olympic golds and broke the long dryspell of a Brit winning Wimbledon.

I don't think any of the Underrateds are Underrated. Delpo is a Coulda-Been, but you can say that about a lot of players who were stopped short by injury. Stan is properly rated, I think. He dazzled at times and took down two GOATS at their peak to win Slams, but he was pretty inconsisent otherwise. Nick, no. Unfulfilled potential, that's all.

[meganfernandez]

Youzhny said Shapo didn't work hard enough before they split, and Shapo takes issue with that.

https://x.com/TheTennisLetter/status/17 ... 52572?s=20

https://x.com/denis_shapo/status/174060 ... 60680?s=20

[meganfernandez]

There's no United Cup 2024 thread, it seems. Pegula-Boulter is a great match. Boulter is playing top 10-level tennis today, per David Witt. He's impressed. Pegula won 6 straight game to go up a set and 3-0, then Boulter won the second set 6-4. She is being pretty aggressive. Pegula is getting more free points on serve than Boulter.

[ashkor87]

McEnroe is a GOAT in my eyes, doubles is tennis too!

[atlpam]

There's no United Cup 2024 thread, it seems. Pegula-Boulter is a great match. Boulter is playing top 10-level tennis today, per David Witt. He's impressed. Pegula won 6 straight game to go up a set and 3-0, then Boulter won the second set 6-4. She is being pretty aggressive. Pegula is getting more free points on serve than Boulter.

Definitely a high quality match. I couldn’t manage to stay up and watch the 3rd set - not ready for my annual tennis down under sleep deprived state yet.

[meganfernandez]

There's no United Cup 2024 thread, it seems. Pegula-Boulter is a great match. Boulter is playing top 10-level tennis today, per David Witt. He's impressed. Pegula won 6 straight game to go up a set and 3-0, then Boulter won the second set 6-4. She is being pretty aggressive. Pegula is getting more free points on serve than Boulter.

Definitely a high quality match. I couldn’t manage to stay up and watch the 3rd set - not ready for my annual tennis down under sleep deprived state yet.

It didn’t feel like an exo. Made me wonder if Boulter could make a run at the Top 10 this year.


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[skatingfan]

I started a thread for United Cup.

https://talkabouttennis2.com/viewtopic. ... 95#p100095

[ti-amie]

[skatingfan]

Nadal looks like he's spent a lot of time in the gym working on his upper body.

[ponchi101]

I agree.

I disagree - this a tired argument that every aging player makes when the pace of the game starts to pass them by. Just because younger players can hit the ball harder - Jannik Sinner - doesn't mean that there's no tactics, but it might mean that the tactics have changed, and just because Nadal can't keep up is no reason to disparage younger players.

Wilander made the same comments late in his career.

[ti-amie]

Despite the goofy illustration there were some interesting responses to the OP's points.

TheShirou97
·
14 hr. ago
A single player born in 2003 already has as many slams as all players from the 90s combined.

level 2
ActualProject
·
4 hr. ago
Slam count by birth decade:

00s: 2

90s: 2

80s: 80

And in case you can't multiply, there are 40 slams a decade. So the 90s players basically got completely engulfed by the 80s

The worst part of this stat? It's looking like the 80s number will increase more than the 90s number when it's all said and done

Professional_Elk_489
·
12 hr. ago
Alcaraz was the first non-Big 4 player to win Wimbledon (2023) since Hewitt in 2002

TheShirou97
·
12 hr. ago
Yep. The Big 3 have 66 slams between them, that's 16 and a half years worth of slams.

indeedy71
·
14 hr. ago
It’s almost like this is partly why people consider the Big 3 to be the best all-time, because they did something no other generation before them could do

HereComesVettel
·
10 hr. ago
Roger Federer & Jo-Wilfried Tsonga

This still doesn't explain why Alcaraz at only 20 already surpassed the players born in the 90's. If you tell me that's because Carlos is generational, then you're kind of proving the OP right. If every decade produces an ATG player except the 1990's, then it makes sense to call this generation weak.

Medvedev, Zverev, Tsitsipas & co are the ones supposedly in their prime right now, the fact they are not as good as post-peak Djokovic and pre-peak Alcaraz raises questions.

GibbyGoldfisch
·
13 hr. ago
Tsitsipas: A riddle inside an enigma inside a lavatory

You say that, but when you look at most of the best players born in the 90s:

Dimitrov, Raonic, Thiem, Schwartzman, Medvedev, Zverev, Kyrgios, Tsitsipas, Rublev, Ruud, Berrettini, De Minaur, Shapovalov...

It's hard to escape the feeling that most have fairly limited games, and several of them are not serious people, big three or no big three

bellestarflower
·
14 hr. ago
Anything starting from 2017 is weak era. It has been actually discussed by analysts etc. that 90s gen have a different forehand grip that doesn't damage Big 3, they stopped S&V completely, hated coming to net and that all just helped the trio keep their dominance over them. Nadal got a pretty powerful slice and Djokovic added solid volleys to his arsenal. It's about adaptation and those three were really good at it.

2000s are very aggressive and don't shy away from coming forward, even Sinner has been adding more variety. That makes all the difference against them.

huynguyentien
·
13 hr. ago
Can you show me the analysis about the forehand grip, because honestly that sounds extremely (expletive) to me. Another thing is that the statement about the 2017 era hating coming to the net is also factually incorrect, although I do see where this coming from since a lot of the very top players of this gen is indeed like that, but I can think of a few exceptions like Hurkacz, Tsitsipas, and Berrettini.

Variety is an improvement for Sinner but his groundstroke remains the biggest reason for his success.

bellestarflower
·
13 hr. ago
·
edited 13 hr. ago
At the top of my head:

https://hughclarke.substack.com/p/part- ... wingweight

https://hughclarke.substack.com/p/death ... i?r=11vdz2

https://hughclarke.substack.com/p/chang ... um=reader2

Federer was very open about how shocked he was that people kept avoiding net in Shanghai 2017. There is an ESPN article that says he was trying to get coaches to encourage juniors coming more towards to net & learning serve and volley.

edit: Also groundstrokes being the main weapon for Sinner is a "duh" statement. It's the new added variety that made him Top 4 however. Cahill and Vagnazzi have alluded to that many times.

I haven't yet but I'm going to look at the links given to check out what the poster is talking about re grips. We talked about it a bit with Cori but tbh I haven't looked at the ATP players.

Who would you guys pick as an all time great born in the 90's? Not potential great but great.

[ponchi101]

ATG born in the 90's. Yes, it looks like it is a void category, so far. I say Tsitsipas still can do something, but that is a big COULD.

[mmmm8]

"A riddle inside an enigma inside a lavatory"