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[ti-amie]

Many pics of him during the election showed him with prominent NYC GOP'ers. There was one taken at Rao's, the exclusive East Harlem Italian eatery that has like five tables and a waiting list that literally goes on for years. I'll see if I can find it. If you watched L& O original flavor that cozy Italian place they showed all the time was Rao's. I also don't like the fact that as Brooklyn Borough President and now as Mayor he really lives in Jersey.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/09/eric-adam ... s-at-raos/

Eric Adams dined at Rao’s with billionaire Republican John Catsimatidis.
Twitter

The NY Post, Murdoch's rag, endorsed him.

I think he'll get rid of the mandates.

[JazzNU]

I don't see any stigma attached to the word "illiterate". You're either literate or you're not.

I can see how the word "illiterate"--when attached to a specific person--could be stigmatizing. But the broad term "illiteracy" to describe a thing--I'm not seeing that.

It was the same deal with "hunger", which some time back was shelved and replaced with "food insecurity". At least for me.

But perhaps there's an angle or perception I'm not aware of.

I'm not familiar with "learning poverty" so that's a new one. Food insecurity is one that I'm familiar with, that change in phrasing has been advocated for several years now. But I think it's rather strange that illiteracy would be considered stigmatizing but attaching the word 'poverty' to something would not be? I don't understand that part. I think the word poverty carries as much if not a higher stigma than the word illiterate.

I also don't think of illiterate as stigmatizing. But here's the one thing that occurred to me reading the replies.

The prefix -ill means bad or unpleasant. There are exceptions to how it is used of course. but there are many words with that prefix that are tied to a negative connotation - illegal, illegitimate, illicit, come to mind - so maybe that's the other part of this.

That being said, my original point remains. If this is about removing stigma, I don't think they landed on the right phrase.

[mmmm8]

Here's the background on food insecurity vs hunger:
https://thecounter.org/hunger-food-inse ... g-america/
https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nu ... urity.aspx

Without looking into it, I would guess the change in illiteracy has more to do with the spectrum/range of literacy that dmforever pointed out than with just the stigma.

[mmmm8]

I don't think Eric Adams is a closet Republican. I think he's an opportunist.

[JazzNU]

Many pics of him during the election showed him with prominent NYC GOP'ers. There was one taken at Rao's, the exclusive East Harlem Italian eatery that has like five tables and a waiting list that literally goes on for years. I'll see if I can find it. If you watched L& O original flavor that cozy Italian place they showed all the time was Rao's. I also don't like the fact that as Brooklyn Borough President and now as Mayor he really lives in Jersey.

I think he'll get rid of the mandates.

Skimming Catsimatidis Wiki doesn't change my original opinion of Adams. Catsimatidis has been a high level donor to many Dems in the past as well, especially the Clintons. 1970s Dem, the very, very, very pro-union kind is how I think of Adams

I will not be remotely shocked if he gets rid of the mandates, I'm basically expecting it, or at the very least modifies them, such as changing it back to what it previously was with the testing opt out. I'm guessing if he does, that was part of the support he received during the election, an agreed upon deal once he took office. That being said, it'll be real interesting if he decides to do that in the midst of an Omicron and Delta surge.

[JazzNU]

I don't think Eric Adams is a closet Republican. I think he's an opportunist.

Couldn't agree with this more.

[ponchi101]

...

It's awesome that you don't attach a stigma to the word "illiterate". I wish the world were filled with more people like you. However, I think in most societies being "illiterate" is highly stigmatized, especially since it often intersects with racism and classism.

I also used to think in terms of a "literate" vs "illiterate" binary, but it's actually more of a range. For example, some people can read simple words but not more complicated ones. Some people can write their names and some words they have memorized but that's it. Some people can read more complicated texts but not really understand a lot.

If anyone is interested in literacy, a great way to really get how it works is to put yourself in the position of trying to become more literate. Try learning how to read and write in a foreign language that doesn't use an alphabet that you know. You can go for Hindi, Arabic, Thai, Mandarin, Japanese, Russian (except for the Russian speakers here), Farsi, Urdu, Korean, or a bunch of other languages. Sorry if I've left yours out. It's a very very humbling experience and most people become immediately more empathetic with people who are struggling to become more literate.

Thanks for your post and I apologize for kind of hijacking it and going off on a tangent.

Kevin

But if you take that route, aren't you going to an extreme? By that definition, I am illiterate in almost all languages in the world, and that is not the usual definition. The definition of illiterate is, basically, that you can't read and/or write the language which you speak. Therefore, the sole source of information and knowledge for you is oral tradition, which of course limits your capacity for improvement.
Take the concept of innumeracy, which I talked about above. Are you innumerate? If I decide that you are so because you, for example, don't know how to do integral calculus, differential calculus or analysis, then I am the one designating you as such when in reality maybe you are brilliant in trigonometry, topology or some other math field. A final point is that I may be illiterate in Russian, but that does not mean that I cannot be versed in Russian literature and be an expert in Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, since I can read my language and read their translations.
You also make a point of illiteracy as a "Yes/No" condition, when professionals on the subject will agree with you that illiteracy comes in gradients. For example, I am convinced that Donald Trump is technically illiterate and really can't read a book above nursery rhymes level, yet he is not considered illiterate.
I guess the point for some of us was: why the strange denomination? Why not use the word "illiterate"? It is not a crime to be one and the goal should be to help everybody in that condition overcome it, but now declaring that "illiterate" is a "bad word" is, to me, indeed raising an unwelcomed condition to the level of stigma.

Off Topic

BTW. The English language capacity to use terms such as "knowledge poverty" to convey messages does not easily translate to other languages. I am trying to find a Spanish equivalent and nothing rings the same (POBREZA DE CONOCIMIENTO can be easily thought of but that can be misconstrued as poverty of knowledge in ONE subject). As this is the WHO, an international organism, the choice of words may not be useful when you translate to other languages

[JazzNU]

Off Topic

BTW. The English language capacity to use terms such as "knowledge poverty" to convey messages does not easily translate to other languages. I am trying to find a Spanish equivalent and nothing rings the same (POBREZA DE CONOCIMIENTO can be easily thought of but that can be misconstrued as poverty of knowledge in ONE subject). As this is the WHO, an international organism, the choice of words may not be useful when you translate to other languages

Don't disagree with you, but what's real interesting is that this appears to be a concept that originated with the World Bank. First Google result is theirs. Second is UNESCO.

Also @ponchi, is there an equivalent phrase used in Spanish for functioning illiterate?

[ponchi101]

Yes. That concept is acceptable: ANAFALBETO FUNCIONAL. Our word for "ILLITERATE" is "ANALFABETO", which carries quite a punch. Although the translation is one to one (there is no ambiguity), I gather you can see the latin origins: from AN (non) and ALFABETO (Alphabet). Basically, you don't have an alphabet.
And THAT one you can use as an insult.

[ti-amie]

I don't think Eric Adams is a closet Republican. I think he's an opportunist.

Couldn't agree with this more.

On this we all agree.

[dmforever]

...

It's awesome that you don't attach a stigma to the word "illiterate". I wish the world were filled with more people like you. However, I think in most societies being "illiterate" is highly stigmatized, especially since it often intersects with racism and classism.

I also used to think in terms of a "literate" vs "illiterate" binary, but it's actually more of a range. For example, some people can read simple words but not more complicated ones. Some people can write their names and some words they have memorized but that's it. Some people can read more complicated texts but not really understand a lot.

If anyone is interested in literacy, a great way to really get how it works is to put yourself in the position of trying to become more literate. Try learning how to read and write in a foreign language that doesn't use an alphabet that you know. You can go for Hindi, Arabic, Thai, Mandarin, Japanese, Russian (except for the Russian speakers here), Farsi, Urdu, Korean, or a bunch of other languages. Sorry if I've left yours out. It's a very very humbling experience and most people become immediately more empathetic with people who are struggling to become more literate.

Thanks for your post and I apologize for kind of hijacking it and going off on a tangent.

Kevin

But if you take that route, aren't you going to an extreme? By that definition, I am illiterate in almost all languages in the world, and that is not the usual definition. The definition of illiterate is, basically, that you can't read and/or write the language which you speak. Therefore, the sole source of information and knowledge for you is oral tradition, which of course limits your capacity for improvement.
Take the concept of innumeracy, which I talked about above. Are you innumerate? If I decide that you are so because you, for example, don't know how to do integral calculus, differential calculus or analysis, then I am the one designating you as such when in reality maybe you are brilliant in trigonometry, topology or some other math field. A final point is that I may be illiterate in Russian, but that does not mean that I cannot be versed in Russian literature and be an expert in Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, since I can read my language and read their translations.
You also make a point of illiteracy as a "Yes/No" condition, when professionals on the subject will agree with you that illiteracy comes in gradients. For example, I am convinced that Donald Trump is technically illiterate and really can't read a book above nursery rhymes level, yet he is not considered illiterate.
I guess the point for some of us was: why the strange denomination? Why not use the word "illiterate"? It is not a crime to be one and the goal should be to help everybody in that condition overcome it, but now declaring that "illiterate" is a "bad word" is, to me, indeed raising an unwelcomed condition to the level of stigma.

Off Topic

BTW. The English language capacity to use terms such as "knowledge poverty" to convey messages does not easily translate to other languages. I am trying to find a Spanish equivalent and nothing rings the same (POBREZA DE CONOCIMIENTO can be easily thought of but that can be misconstrued as poverty of knowledge in ONE subject). As this is the WHO, an international organism, the choice of words may not be useful when you translate to other languages

My point about other languages wasn't that we are illiterate in them. Sorry if that wasn't clear. My point was that those of us who were lucky enough to be taught how to read and write a young age have probably forgotten what it was really like to learn that. Trying to learn a new alphabet and the sight and sound correlation that go with it, even with the advantage of already being literate in another language, can be really hard, and might give people a better understanding of what other people who are less literate go through. It was only meant as a way to have a more experiential understanding of the literacy/illiteracy spectrum.

As for the stigma part, I totally agree. But whether you or I stigmatize the word doesn't really matter if the rest of the world does. If I'm wrong and most of the world thinks the word "illiterate" has no negative connotations, then awesome.

And I agree 100% with your Trump example. There are many many other people like him.

Kevin

[JazzNU]

[JazzNU]

[ponchi101]

Singapore, the tiny island nation that is usually ahead of the curve.

[mmmm8]

Non-regulatorily, we're seeing also issues in private insurance coverage at work (working on employer benefits). In India, a new trend is that some insurers won't provide life insurance coverage for unvaccinated employees on company plans.