Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

[Liamvalid]

Anyone remember if Pliskova was punished for attacking the umpires chair?

I don't think she was.
Although she took a chunk out of the chair (out of an advertizing sign on the chair, I think), it was not comparable to this Zverev incident. Pliskova's action was not threatening in nature - as I recall, it was more like her simply hitting the thing that was closest to her. She was upset with the umpire - but I think it's pretty obvious that the Zverev incident was much more dangerous and much more of a direct threat to the umpire.

Yeah I remember the actual incident. My point is that whatever punishment she received, Zverev should get worse as his actions seemed far more menacing. With Pliskova though, it was so against her character it was quite a shock to witness-but I had no surprise at all when I saw the Zverev video

[Deuce]

Anyone remember if Pliskova was punished for attacking the umpires chair?

I don't think she was.
Although she took a chunk out of the chair (out of an advertizing sign on the chair, I think), it was not comparable to this Zverev incident. Pliskova's action was not threatening in nature - as I recall, it was more like her simply hitting the thing that was closest to her. She was upset with the umpire - but I think it's pretty obvious that the Zverev incident was much more dangerous and much more of a direct threat to the umpire.

Yeah I remember the actual incident. My point is that whatever punishment she received, Zverev should get worse as his actions seemed far more menacing. With Pliskova though, it was so against her character it was quite a shock to witness-but I had no surprise at all when I saw the Zverev video

I was still surprised with the Zverev incident - simply because I've never seen him do anything close to that before. He's had little arguments with umpires - like pretty much everyone else has had... but nothing approaching this incident.

McEnroe and Connors called officials all kinds of names - but I don't recall either of them ever being physical, or doing anything physically threatening, like this.
The only player I can think of who could have possibly done something like what Zverev did the other day is Nastase. And 'Nasty' has always been pretty much certifiably insane.

It wasn't 'just' the hitting the chair several times, either. Obviously, that was quite bad, dangerous, unacceptable, etc... But Zverev was also swearing at the umpire before hitting the chair - while the match was still ongoing (I think in the 'super tiebreak'). He was using 'f-bombs' all over the place, directed at the umpire before the match was finished. Over a line call.
Then, when they lost the match, he lost his mind.

[meganfernandez]

He will not be suspended. Let's remember the ATP's record on that.
1. Mac was defaulted from a match at the Aussie open IN 1990 (if I remember well), and a decade of terrorizing umpires. He was not suspended.
2. Kyrgios infamous words to Wawrinka led to a "suspended suspension". That was it. Certainly not as violent in the physical sense of the actions by Zverev, but that was a very low point, especially the comments about Donna.
3. Shapovalov's unfortunate hit of the umpire mean disqualification of the match, nothing more (agree, he truly looked like he did not mean to do that).
4. Novax at the USO '20. No need to dig that corpse up.

They never get suspended. It is not in the ATP's "manual" and they don't have, as the Mexican writer in one tweet above says, "los huevos" for that.

If they don't suspend him and he does actually physically harm someone, I wonder if the linespeople and/or chair umpire would have a case against the ATP on grounds of unsafe working conditions. Maybe they already have that case now, though I guess it would depend on Mexican law, in this case.

Kevin

Probably would have a case, but the ATP would pay the person's medical bills and offer restitution before it came to that. I don't think most people want to sue a big organization. Too much hassle and personal exposure with a low chance of winning.

[meganfernandez]

I don't think she was.
Although she took a chunk out of the chair (out of an advertizing sign on the chair, I think), it was not comparable to this Zverev incident. Pliskova's action was not threatening in nature - as I recall, it was more like her simply hitting the thing that was closest to her. She was upset with the umpire - but I think it's pretty obvious that the Zverev incident was much more dangerous and much more of a direct threat to the umpire.

Yeah I remember the actual incident. My point is that whatever punishment she received, Zverev should get worse as his actions seemed far more menacing. With Pliskova though, it was so against her character it was quite a shock to witness-but I had no surprise at all when I saw the Zverev video

I was still surprised with the Zverev incident - simply because I've never seen him do anything close to that before. He's had little arguments with umpires - like pretty much everyone else has had... but nothing approaching this incident.

Yeah, and it was also bizarre given the circumstances. It makes me wonder about the full story. Did he have bad blood with one of the opponents or the umpire? Was something happening off-court besides that late-night finish? Was he pissed at the tournament for the scheduling? Nothing excuses his actions, but it was really bizarre and I wonder what happened. It was just a doubles match.

If he winds up revealing that he is struggling with mental health, I wonder if anyone will sympathize.

[ti-amie]

Just FYI, the pilling down of video is not because of what happened, but who is posting it and how. I posted video of it in the other thread even though someone already posted a YT video of it for this very reason. The ATP is FANATICAL about who is allowed to post videos of their content. They have gotten to a place where they do allow people to post gifs of a lot of stuff after going scorched earth on some prolific Twitter users a few years ago that used to do it regularly, but they do not do that with video content.

It's just not how they operate. And why I posted the video from an account that is one of their partners, not a random user. If that video comes down, then you know ATP is trying to cover it up completely.

This is true but there's been a running battle between fans and the ATP/WTA about fan videos. That said in this case there is a fandom that will always take the position that players other than the one they stan are being coddled and protected. Personally I think they're close to the edge but why take this particular fan video down especially when many fans have no access to or were unaware of the sites that are able to post it without repercussions. I didn't even know that there was a feed for Amazon videos until today.

That the video was pulled when it was pulled only feeds the stans. At the time the video was pulled there was no other access (to my knowledge) of a legit site where the video could be seen.

That said I think he should be suspended for at least 6 months. Will it happen? Nope.

Why go nuclear on small-time but prolific tennis social media accounts that are helping to promote and grow your sport to the point of sending out demand letters and trying to get their accounts banned from various sites? I can't begin to tell you why the ATP has the strategy they do where gif and video content is concerned. It's always been bizarre and it still is. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I can't name another significant sports body who has taken such aggressive steps. It's one of the most counterproductive things I've seen.

Tennis is second only to figure skating for destroying its brand and alienating its fanbase.

[JazzNU]

ATP disciplines Alexander Zverev for actions against chair umpire at Mexican Open

ACAPULCO, Mexico -- Tokyo Olympics gold medalist Alexander Zverev was fined $40,000 by the men's professional tennis tour and will forfeit more than $30,000 in prize money and all rankings points from the Mexican Open after hitting the chair umpire's stand with his racket following a loss in doubles.

In addition to those penalties, the ATP announced Thursday it would undertake "a further review of the incident."

Zverev was the 2020 US Open runner-up. He is currently ranked No. 3 and was the defending singles champion in Acapulco.

The 24-year-old German was kicked out of the tournament after yelling and cursing at official Alessandro Germani and violently striking the umpire's chair no fewer than four times.

Zverev and partner Marcelo Melo had just lost a doubles match to Lloyd Glasspool and Harri Heliovaara. Just before the match ended, Germani gave Zverev a code violation for yelling and swearing while arguing about a shot that was ruled in, setting up match point.

The ATP said Zverev was fined $20,000 each for verbal abuse and unsportsmanlike conduct, the maximum penalty for each violation.

He loses his full prize money for singles and doubles of $31,570 and all rankings points earned at the tournament.

In October, the ATP opened an investigation into a former girlfriend's allegations of domestic abuse by Zverev. The former girlfriend first made the allegations in 2020.

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... xican-open

[ti-amie]

I wanted to ask this question here.

Why do people think Melo should've done "more to restrain Zverev"? This is my opinion. I'm not a mental health professional.

Explosive anger like that is not something everyone/anyone can handle. I also think this is regular behavior for him and that those who know him get out of his way until he's calmed down. I wonder what his family has gone through with him too. I think Melo, used to seeing this behavior, did what any sane person would do and got out of Zverev's way.

[ti-amie]

BTW the fines are just about equal with his forfeited pay so for all intents and purposes he wasn't fined at all.

[meganfernandez]

BTW the fines are just about equal with his forfeited pay so for all intents and purposes he wasn't fined at all.

I don’t follow. His fine is $40,000 on top of the $30,000 prize money he forfeits, right? Or does his $30k go toward the $40k fine?

[dmforever]

I wanted to ask this question here.

Why do people think Melo should've done "more to restrain Zverev"? This is my opinion. I'm not a mental health professional.

Explosive anger like that is not something everyone/anyone can handle. I also think this is regular behavior for him and that those who know him get out of his way until he's calmed down. I wonder what his family has gone through with him too. I think Melo, used to seeing this behavior, did what any sane person would do and got out of Zverev's way.

He wacked the chair a couple of times. Then he stopped, then went back. When he went back, Melo could have said something or maybe just put his hand on his shoulder. But you make a good point. That might have been dangerous. But if that's the case, then that speaks volumes. His own doubles partner and friend was afraid of him. Also, did any of the players say anything to the chair umpire after Zverev left the court? One of them could have waked with the umpire to make him feel better. Obviously the video doesn't show that much, so we don't know. I just felt really bad for the chair umpire. This really horrible, violent thing happens and none of the people near him do anything. There was a security guard in the video standing in the stands. He also did nothing.

Kevin

[Deuce]

I wanted to ask this question here.

Why do people think Melo should've done "more to restrain Zverev"? This is my opinion. I'm not a mental health professional.

Explosive anger like that is not something everyone/anyone can handle. I also think this is regular behavior for him and that those who know him get out of his way until he's calmed down. I wonder what his family has gone through with him too. I think Melo, used to seeing this behavior, did what any sane person would do and got out of Zverev's way.

I don't think it's fair at all to assume that this is 'regular behaviour' for him unless you've seen that behaviour from him... well... regularly. On what is this assumption based, then?

Granted, his former girlfriend accused him of violent behaviour - and, while those accusations seem legitimate, none of us really know because we only know what we read in the media - there is probably 90% of detail that we have no idea about. So, honestly, in lieu of actual and irrefutable evidence, it's quite unjust to say that one thinks this is 'regular behaviour' for him, and that his friend and doubles partner is accustomed to seeing this behaviour from him. I have not seen any evidence of that, and I doubt you have, either. Unless you've seen that type of behaviour from him before, this is pure speculation, and thus unfair. Starting rumours like this without evidence is not right.

I don't like Zverev. I find him arrogant and obnoxious... and the accusations by his former girlfriend certainly haven't helped my opinion of him. Neither has his behaviour the other night, obviously. So, for various reasons, I don't like him. But I do like fairness - and to say that one believes this kind of violent, out of control behaviour is 'regular' for someone without ever having witnessed it oneself is blatantly unfair.
Say what you will about what you saw of his behaviour the other day - I have no problem at all with any opinion of that particular behaviour. But speculation beyond that is simply not fair.

[skatingfan]

BTW the fines are just about equal with his forfeited pay so for all intents and purposes he wasn't fined at all.

I don’t follow. His fine is $40,000 on top of the $30,000 prize money he forfeits, right? Or does his $30k go toward the $40k fine?

If he'd won the tournament he would have won more than 300k, so the 70k lost for the tournament seems relatively modest.

[ashkor87]

I wonder if the Ukraine invasion by Russia places folks like Medevedev and Rublev in some danger of sanctions.. they earn USD and the US government is determined to starve the Russians of hard currency.. it is not inconveivable that there may be sanctions against all travel by Russians, especially when they may be earning significant dollars.. or am I speculating too much?

[skatingfan]

I wonder if the Ukraine invasion by Russia places folks like Medevedev and Rublev in some danger of sanctions.. they earn USD and the US government is determined to starve the Russians of hard currency.. it is not inconveivable that there may be sanctions against all travel by Russians, especially when they may be earning significant dollars.. or am I speculating too much?

I doubt that the US will sanction athletes - some countries have started to stop processing visas for Russians, so that could cause some issues as the year goes on - I think they should withdraw from upcoming events, but I don't think they'll be unable to compete & earn money simply because they're Russian.

[meganfernandez]

I wonder if the Ukraine invasion by Russia places folks like Medevedev and Rublev in some danger of sanctions.. they earn USD and the US government is determined to starve the Russians of hard currency.. it is not inconveivable that there may be sanctions against all travel by Russians, especially when they may be earning significant dollars.. or am I speculating too much?

I doubt that the US will sanction athletes - some countries have started to stop processing visas for Russians, so that could cause some issues as the year goes on - I think they should withdraw from upcoming events, but I don't think they'll be unable to compete & earn money simply because they're Russian.

Nor should they be punished for being Russian. And I don’t agree with pulling tournaments from Russia in protest. It just doesn’t accomplish anything or make any important statement. It only hurts players and fans. If this goes on and the circumstances change, and if there’s danger, then maybe.

I am curious if the tournaments will have trouble operating because of the sanctions. This is way deep in the business side, but if sponsors rely on banks that can’t do business in dollars, euro or yen, then maybe it becomes an issue. I don’t know…


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