'22 Wimbledon Day 7 OoP & Discussion

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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#106

Post by ashkor87 »

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:30 am
ashkor87 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:17 am Of course I had expected Sinner to win anyway ..it may be that both Alcaraz and Swiatek could tell even in practice that their game wasn't going to work on grass so got discouraged before they even stepped onto the turf...
I just don't understand that way of thinking at all. I really think every player that enters into the draw feels they are going to win every match, especially the higher ranked players. If they have that attitude then why enter the tournament at all.

Also in the case of Swiatek who was on a 38 match win streak and everyone in her camp and all over the place telling her she is the one that is going to take this title for sure was discouraged at all with her game and her capabilities even on grass? You have to be kidding me. She was on a roll and a super high. She was not discouraged about anything in her game. She just got beat that day by someone who played a better game that particular day. Possibly 9 out of 10 other times they play she would have won.
Swiatek said so herself! It is PC to say players always think they can win but self-doubt is human, everyone is subject to it.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#107

Post by ponchi101 »

meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:49 am ...

Couldn't believe Sampras wasn't there. Then Steffi and Agassi. Then Seles. Then Serena. Guess Serena didn't want to stick around.

Do you think everyone was invited?
Yes. Whatever you may think of the British, they are good (very good) at protocol. Even if Serena had not been invited (which is very doubtful), she could have shown up and say "Tell them Serena is here". She would have walked out to a huge ovation.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#108

Post by Cuckoo4Coco »

ashkor87 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:07 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:30 am
ashkor87 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:17 am Of course I had expected Sinner to win anyway ..it may be that both Alcaraz and Swiatek could tell even in practice that their game wasn't going to work on grass so got discouraged before they even stepped onto the turf...
I just don't understand that way of thinking at all. I really think every player that enters into the draw feels they are going to win every match, especially the higher ranked players. If they have that attitude then why enter the tournament at all.

Also in the case of Swiatek who was on a 38 match win streak and everyone in her camp and all over the place telling her she is the one that is going to take this title for sure was discouraged at all with her game and her capabilities even on grass? You have to be kidding me. She was on a roll and a super high. She was not discouraged about anything in her game. She just got beat that day by someone who played a better game that particular day. Possibly 9 out of 10 other times they play she would have won.
Swiatek said so herself! It is PC to say players always think they can win but self-doubt is human, everyone is subject to it.
Of course everyone has a little self doubt, but as a professional player or any player to go into a tournament and say well I am entering this tournament , but there is no way I am going to win it is just ridiculous.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#109

Post by nelslus »

meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:49 amCouldn't believe Sampras wasn't there. Then Steffi and Agassi. Then Seles. Then Serena. Guess Serena didn't want to stick around. Do you think everyone was invited?
Monica Seles never won a Wimbledon title- just one Wimbledon final, against Graf.

Sad that Virginia Wade wasn't there.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#110

Post by nelslus »

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:02 amThe one guy that was there and was really old was Rod Laver. A true legend of the game and even though I don't know anything about his game or him as a player other than he was called "The Rocket" it was great to see him there.
My challenge to you: There is much available match coverage via YouTube, if you do some digging- sometimes coverage with full matches- of many of the greats that were there today. Some even have written books- and some, such as Billie Jean King, McEnroe and Agassi, have written excellent books. Watch, read when you can. There is so much to be learned. Watch the ways that Martina, Laver, Billie Jean King, Sampras, McEnroe, Edberg, and Becker hit volleys- all of them were far better at volleys then the great majority of current players. Borg and Evert had incredible groundstrokes. Some of the former greats had service techniques that were incredible. On and on I could go. And, while of course the game has changed- too few current players have taken the time to study the greats. Very telling that this is not the case with Federer, Nadal, Novak, the Sisters, and a lot of the current true greats. (It has always killed me that Petra, at least to the best of my knowledge, has never taken the time with Navratilova- her countrywoman- to get tips on how to volley. And I remember Martina saying during past matches that she was available for this.)
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#111

Post by Cuckoo4Coco »

nelslus wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:36 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:02 amThe one guy that was there and was really old was Rod Laver. A true legend of the game and even though I don't know anything about his game or him as a player other than he was called "The Rocket" it was great to see him there.
My challenge to you: There is much available match coverage via YouTube, if you do some digging- sometimes coverage with full matches- of many of the greats that were there today. Some even have written books- and some, such as Billie Jean King, McEnroe and Agassi, have written excellent books. Watch, read when you can. There is so much to be learned. Watch the ways that Martina, Laver, Billie Jean King, Sampras, McEnroe, Edberg, and Becker hit volleys- all of them were far better at volleys then the great majority of current players. Borg and Evert had incredible groundstrokes. Some of the former greats had service techniques that were incredible. On and on I could go. And, while of course the game has changed- too few current players have taken the time to study the greats. Very telling that this is not the case with Federer, Nadal, Novak, the Sisters, and a lot of the current true greats. (It has always killed me that Petra, at least to the best of my knowledge, has never taken the time with Navratilova- her countrywoman- to get tips on how to volley. And I remember Martina saying during past matches that she was available for this.)
I will definitely do this and thanx. I love learning about the game in any way possible.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#112

Post by nelslus »

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:44 amI will definitely do this and thanx. I love learning about the game in any way possible.
And I promise you- you'll enjoy so much watching these players.

AND- here's a starter book recommendation I make to everyone- This book is extremely well-written, funny, moving, dishy, at times brutally honest, and all about the women's tour in 1973. It also pissed off some players- most especially BIllie Jean King- for reasons that will become very, very apparent if you ever get to read this book. The book might be available in your local library- Grace Lichtenstein's "A long way, baby: Behind the scenes in women's pro tennis".

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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#113

Post by Deuce »

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:26 am
ashkor87 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:07 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:30 am

I just don't understand that way of thinking at all. I really think every player that enters into the draw feels they are going to win every match, especially the higher ranked players. If they have that attitude then why enter the tournament at all.

Also in the case of Swiatek who was on a 38 match win streak and everyone in her camp and all over the place telling her she is the one that is going to take this title for sure was discouraged at all with her game and her capabilities even on grass? You have to be kidding me. She was on a roll and a super high. She was not discouraged about anything in her game. She just got beat that day by someone who played a better game that particular day. Possibly 9 out of 10 other times they play she would have won.
Swiatek said so herself! It is PC to say players always think they can win but self-doubt is human, everyone is subject to it.
Of course everyone has a little self doubt, but as a professional player or any player to go into a tournament and say well I am entering this tournament , but there is no way I am going to win it is just ridiculous.
This is one of the reasons I like Leylah so much...
After she beat Osaka at the U.S. Open last year, she was asked in the post match on-court interview "At what point did you believe you could actually win this match?"
Her deadpan answer was "When I was in the locker room before the match."

It reminded me of, back in 2019, after she'd lost in the Final of a 60k Challenger, she was asked what her hopes are for the 1000 tournament in Toronto a couple of weeks later...
16 year old Leylah replied: "Well, my goal is to win the tournament."
Great stuff.

Unfortunately, if they were to give an honest response to such a question, too many players today would say "My goal is to play as long as absolutely everything is perfect. But if I feel the slightest degree of discomfort, or if it's no longer convenient for me to play - I'll quit."
R.I.P. Amal...

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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#114

Post by ponchi101 »

nelslus wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:36 am ... (It has always killed me that Petra, at least to the best of my knowledge, has never taken the time with Navratilova- her countrywoman- to get tips on how to volley. And I remember Martina saying during past matches that she was available for this.)
I hadn't heard that story. Actually, kind of short sighted from Petra. All the ones that you mentioned were indeed great volleyers but, to me, the pinnacle of evolution in volleying was Martina, men's or women's. I could not think of somebody better to emulate.
It is sort of that offer that Roddick publicly made to Brooksby, to work together one week on Jenson's serve. Did he take it up? I know he has changed his serve a bit, but one has to admit that some tips about serving by Roddick should always be welcomed. So if he did not fly one week to Austin... shortsighted too.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#115

Post by Cuckoo4Coco »

Deuce wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:34 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:26 am
ashkor87 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:07 am
Swiatek said so herself! It is PC to say players always think they can win but self-doubt is human, everyone is subject to it.
Of course everyone has a little self doubt, but as a professional player or any player to go into a tournament and say well I am entering this tournament , but there is no way I am going to win it is just ridiculous.
This is one of the reasons I like Leylah so much...
After she beat Osaka at the U.S. Open last year, she was asked in the post match on-court interview "At what point did you believe you could actually win this match?"
Her deadpan answer was "When I was in the locker room before the match."

It reminded me of, back in 2019, after she'd lost in the Final of a 60k Challenger, she was asked what her hopes are for the 1000 tournament in Toronto a couple of weeks later...
16 year old Leylah replied: "Well, my goal is to win the tournament."
Great stuff.

Unfortunately, if they were to give an honest response to such a question, too many players today would say "My goal is to play as long as absolutely everything is perfect. But if I feel the slightest degree of discomfort, or if it's no longer convenient for me to play - I'll quit."
I do think players have to look out for their bodies and if injuries are part of it but I really think if they are fully healthy entering a tournament their goal is to win it.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#116

Post by ti-amie »

Sampras rarely attends these things. They got him to come once for Federer surpassing him at Wimbledon (?) and he arrived late if I recall correctly and talked to his wife the entire match.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#117

Post by ponchi101 »

Sampras and Steffi simply never show up. I gather they know what they did, they are satisfied with who they are. Good for them.
Still, he is a 7 times champion, with some incredible records here. NEVER lost a final, and in seven total matches, he was broken THREE TIMES. This place was his for a considerable time. It would have been nice to see him.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#118

Post by Cuckoo4Coco »

ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:16 pm Sampras and Steffi simply never show up. I gather they know what they did, they are satisfied with who they are. Good for them.
Still, he is a 7 times champion, with some incredible records here. NEVER lost a final, and in seven total matches, he was broken THREE TIMES. This place was his for a considerable time. It would have been nice to see him.
I guess it does come down to what the player wants to do and all, but really sometimes it is not always about the player. This was about more than that. It was about the event. The Centre Court tradition and most of all the fans. 90 some percent of those players I didn't know who they were or never saw a single accomplishment they achieved on Centre Court. That didn't matter to me at all watching that. I knew one thing. They were past champions of the game I love and some of the newer players that were there also got it even just standing there with them. That is what it was all about. Not really about any one single player or anything like that but the event and Centre Court itself. Those players like Steffi Graf and Pete Sampras were a huge part of the event and Centre Court and I do agree they both should have been there along with Serena. Now Martina if she had Covid that is a whole other ballgame but no excuses for the other players.
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