TENNIS PLAYERS (Off-Court Shenanigans)

[Owendonovan]

Osaka has been troubled emotionally and psychologically for the past couple of years (at least, that's as long as she's let it be known publicly - the troubles may have developed earlier than that).
Are these troubles all directly related to tennis? Possibly - but I, myself, doubt it.
Being a parent is not a trivial matter - it is probably the most important responsibility a human being can have.
Is she emotionally stable enough to be a parent?

I just hope she isn't having a child as a means of thinking that it will remedy her problems. I've seen many troubled women do that... and I've also seen that it usually leads to more problems.

You know, millions of people with depression/mental health issues carry on perfectly normal lives including pregnancy. "Is she emotionally stable enough to be a parent?" is the kind of question that can keep people with a large platform, like Naomi who has been honest and open, from speaking out about mental heath issues.

[Deuce]

Osaka has been troubled emotionally and psychologically for the past couple of years (at least, that's as long as she's let it be known publicly - the troubles may have developed earlier than that).
Are these troubles all directly related to tennis? Possibly - but I, myself, doubt it.
Being a parent is not a trivial matter - it is probably the most important responsibility a human being can have.
Is she emotionally stable enough to be a parent?

I just hope she isn't having a child as a means of thinking that it will remedy her problems. I've seen many troubled women do that... and I've also seen that it usually leads to more problems.

You know, millions of people with depression/mental health issues carry on perfectly normal lives including pregnancy. "Is she emotionally stable enough to be a parent?" is the kind of question that can keep people with a large platform, like Naomi who has been honest and open, from speaking out about mental heath issues.

It's a perfectly legitimate question/concern under the circumstances, Owen. And a realistic one.
I have personally seen many troubled young women - and teenagers - deliberately get pregnant with the specific hope of creating someone that will 'have to love them', and thinking that this will be the solution to all of their troubles... Only to find that it doesn't work that way, and they struggle incredibly to raise the child, and the child ends up troubled, as well, because of a lack of proper nurturing.

This isn't a blame or criticism - it's simply an observation based on plenty of experience.
I'm sorry if it may burst the typical nice bubble of pregnancy announcements of 'oh, that's wonderful - congratulations', etc., but Osaka has demonstrated that she is extremely fragile and unstable emotionally and psychologically, and I think it has been shown time and time again that a solid foundation is necessary in order to parent and nurture a child.

Several years ago, a female cousin of mine, who was about the age that Osaka is now, announced with great fanfare that she was getting married. Literally everyone in our extended family congratulated her and called it wonderful news. Except me. I told everyone that this cousin was not anywhere near stable enough to make a major decision like marriage, because it seemed that every month, she was following a new path - one month she was a committed vegetarian, the next month she was a devoted church goer, etc. It was evident (to me, at least) that she was lost and fragile and desperately searching for an identity. I told everyone that if she gets married, it won't last long. Yet everyone else went on with the pretty grand charade. I was the only one in the family who didn't attend the wedding. Other family members chastised me for not 'supporting' my cousin. I told them I cannot support something which I feel is ill-advised.
4 months after she was married, she and her husband separated, and divorced soon after. She didn't speak with me for a few years, because I didn't support her. But the real reason she didn't speak with me is because she didn't want to admit that my assessment was accurate. Another marriage and divorce followed. With 3 children (all boys). All 3 are teenagers now. The oldest and the youngest both are significantly into the drug scene. The youngest is getting kicked out of schools. The middle boy has troubles controlling his emotions and has changed schools numerous times. My cousin has troubles with mental illness. Her older sister died of a fentanyl overdose a little over a year ago. My cousin talks with me now. For the past few years, though we live thousands of miles apart, she talks with me profoundly - more profoundly than she talks with any other family member.

All that to say that showing concern and being honest in ones's assessment is not 'blaming' or criticizing - it is simply showing honest concern based on observation of the circumstance.
Now, I obviously don't know Osaka as well as I know my cousin - but I have been concerned about Osaka for a few years now. I have posted here how I see her struggling with her identity; of how she is a natural introvert, but the public spotlight will not accept that and demands that she be an extrovert - and so she tried to accommodate, but ends up quite mixed up and depressed. And, based on my experience with people (far more than just with my cousin), I don't feel that's a solid enough foundation from which to raise a child.

[meganfernandez]

Osaka has been troubled emotionally and psychologically for the past couple of years (at least, that's as long as she's let it be known publicly - the troubles may have developed earlier than that).
Are these troubles all directly related to tennis? Possibly - but I, myself, doubt it.
Being a parent is not a trivial matter - it is probably the most important responsibility a human being can have.
Is she emotionally stable enough to be a parent?

I just hope she isn't having a child as a means of thinking that it will remedy her problems. I've seen many troubled women do that... and I've also seen that it usually leads to more problems.

You know, millions of people with depression/mental health issues carry on perfectly normal lives including pregnancy. "Is she emotionally stable enough to be a parent?" is the kind of question that can keep people with a large platform, like Naomi who has been honest and open, from speaking out about mental heath issues.

Yes, exactly, especially if she is getting treatment.

[Deuce]

Osaka has been troubled emotionally and psychologically for the past couple of years (at least, that's as long as she's let it be known publicly - the troubles may have developed earlier than that).
Are these troubles all directly related to tennis? Possibly - but I, myself, doubt it.
Being a parent is not a trivial matter - it is probably the most important responsibility a human being can have.
Is she emotionally stable enough to be a parent?

I just hope she isn't having a child as a means of thinking that it will remedy her problems. I've seen many troubled women do that... and I've also seen that it usually leads to more problems.

You know, millions of people with depression/mental health issues carry on perfectly normal lives including pregnancy. "Is she emotionally stable enough to be a parent?" is the kind of question that can keep people with a large platform, like Naomi who has been honest and open, from speaking out about mental heath issues.

Yes, exactly, especially if she is getting treatment.

Treatment often takes years to succeed in a significant way.
Sorry, and I know it's not a 'pretty' or popular opinion, but, as someone who has first hand experience with too many messed up kids and parents to count, I feel it's best to make damned sure you're stable and ok before embarking into the enormous responsibility of parenthood, rather than merely hoping that it will work out well - because the consequences of failure are huge.
Again, I've seen too many bad outcomes of emotional/psychological instability to think otherwise.

Factually, someone with Osaka’s recent history of emotional instability and fragility would very likely not pass a test that would enable her to adopt a child (assuming she received no favouritism due to being ‘famous’). Because it would be considered too great a risk. They would want her to demonstrate some consistent emotional stability over an extended period of time before they’d allow her to adopt a child. That is not unfair discrimination - it is simply proper concern for the child and for the parent.
But having your own child requires no such testing, of course. The risk, however, is quite similar. The well-being of a child is far too precious and fragile to gamble with.

[Owendonovan]

Isn't it possible that she has made damn sure she's stable and ok to embark on becoming a parent? I'm not gushing over her being pregnant, but it feels you've already decided she can't handle it. I think a fair concern for a person with Naomi's history would be post partum depression, which can be treated/managed. I agree a parenting test would be great, we all know too many who have had no business having children having too many of them, but the subjectivity would be too hard to narrow. As we inch ever closer to 8 billion people on the planet, I'd love a 4 or 5 year moratorium on people procreating.

[ponchi101]

Isn't it possible that she has made damn sure she's stable and ok to embark on becoming a parent? I'm not gushing over her being pregnant, but it feels you've already decided she can't handle it. I think a fair concern for a person with Naomi's history would be post partum depression, which can be treated/managed. I agree a parenting test would be great, we all know too many who have had no business having children having too many of them, but the subjectivity would be too hard to narrow. As we inch ever closer to 8 billion people on the planet, I'd love a 4 or 5 year moratorium on people procreating.

Uhm... we passed the 8 Billion mark early in November.
And if there is somebody that could have Children is Naomi. They will have everything.
Other than that, what you say.

[Deuce]

Isn't it possible that she has made damn sure she's stable and ok to embark on becoming a parent? I'm not gushing over her being pregnant, but it feels you've already decided she can't handle it. I think a fair concern for a person with Naomi's history would be post partum depression, which can be treated/managed. I agree a parenting test would be great, we all know too many who have had no business having children having too many of them, but the subjectivity would be too hard to narrow. As we inch ever closer to 8 billion people on the planet, I'd love a 4 or 5 year moratorium on people procreating.

Like anyone, I can only assess anything based on my experiences and observations. I've mentioned my experience with troubled people having children - most of the time, the outcome has been negative. And based on my observations of Osaka, she is not ready for this responsibility.
Of course, I don't see her every day... I don't know her. Nor do you or anyone else here. And so my perspective that I don't think she's ready for parenthood is not radically different from your perspective that she may be ready for parenthood - the difference being that our perspectives are opposing - but we're both going by what we've observed.
You say that I've already decided that she is not ready for parenthood. Yes - based on what I've seen of her. You say that you think she may be ready for parenthood. And so I ask you: What have you seen in her comportment that tells you that she may be ready for this enormous responsibility?

Sure... concern about post-partum depression. Ok. Of course, there's no guarantee, if this occurs, that it will be treated successfully and that she'll be fine. That's always a crapshoot. But what about concern for the child? Surely you aren't only concerned with Naomi's well-being... there will be a very precious and fragile child here, as well.

People have a tendency to believe that 'famous people' and 'celebrities' are somehow superhuman... People put them up on a pedestal believing that they are somehow 'better' that the rest of us not only at their chosen profession, but 'better' at ALL elements of life. That's not the reality, though. 'Famous people' are still human beings - and, as such, they all have weaknesses and defects just like the rest of us.
Being ready for parenthood is far from being an inherent trait in people - including (and often especially) in 'celebrities'. I'm sure you know that, as I believe you work with children, and, as such, you've surely seen the products of bad and deficient parenting. And you probably know, as I do, that having significant difficulties and troubles in life is quite often cyclical - that it is passed from one generation to the next, to the next, etc.

Osaka may well be ready to be a parent. Now that she's pregnant and there's no going back, I certainly hope that she is ready. But I haven't seen anything from her which indicates that. And I, personally, would advise against it, as a child's well being is not something to gamble on, merely hoping that the parent is competent. What I've seen from Osaka troubles me.
Remember, this is a young woman who has had numerous public breakdowns/meltdowns - and has surely had several more in private. The first evidence I personally saw of it was when she won her first U.S. Open. During the trophy ceremony, she pulled her hat/visor down over her eyes because she didn't want people to see that she was crying. Her tears were not tears of happiness, but they were the tears of someone who felt she didn't deserve what she had just accomplished. And, based on my experience, that is a sign of a person who is deeply troubled. (Of course, Serena's classless antics during that match played a role in Naomi's post match reaction, but it was still troubling to watch.)
And she has had several breakdowns since then.

Naomi is an extremely sensitive person. And very intelligent. I love hearing her speak, because she's so brutally honest. She's one of my favourite players to hear speak. I hold her in very high esteem. But I also see that she's been very mixed up, confused, and depressed, and has had significant trouble trying to figure out who she is. And based on that - and not much time has passed since I last observed her being emotionally unstable and troubled - I am concerned about her readiness for the huge responsibility of parenthood.

I agree with the rest (non-blue part) of your post.

[Owendonovan]

I think she possesses the maturity, ability to self reflect, empathy, and an ability to manage her mental heath issues without apparent shame in a way that's best for her. She's been with Cordae for almost 4 years, she's not going it alone. I feel she has a broad support system that will mitigate the valid concerns you have. Her management of her mental health appears to be top draw, she can afford it. Far too many can't afford or don't have the kind of access Naomi has which can easily lead to the situations you refer to. I have no illusions this baby will "fix" her, nor do I care how this affects her celebrity. I'd like her back on tour, I think she's a great example of humanity, athleticism, activism and femininity. I'd love to add mother to those attributes.

[Deuce]

Fair enough, Owen.
I hope you're right.
Only time will tell.

[skatingfan]

As we inch ever closer to 8 billion people on the planet, I'd love a 4 or 5 year moratorium on people procreating.

As ponchi said we've already passed the 8 billion mark, but the good news is that birth rates are dropping even faster than previously recorded, and the population peak is coming sooner than previously expected. There's some discussion that China's population is already in decline, and that the current UN number being used may be more than 250 million over the actual population of the country.

[ponchi101]

...

As ponchi said we've already passed the 8 billion mark, but the good news is that birth rates are dropping even faster than previously recorded, and the population peak is coming sooner than previously expected. There's some discussion that China's population is already in decline, and that the current UN number being used may be more than 250 million over the actual population of the country.

Yes. The expected peak is now projected at 9.5 Billion. Then, it will start declining slowly.
The global reproduction rate is a bit over 2. Some countries are barely above 1.2.
It is NOT great news; we are still increasing, but it is better than before.

[Deuce]

The birth rate would have to drop very, very significantly - and in a short period of time - to allow the human population to reach a level that the planet could sustain given the selfish manner in which humans live today.

There is much talk of reducing elements like pollution - but, because politicians are in charge of this matter, nothing significant ever comes of it in practical terms. Politicians are only interested in making theories sound pretty.

We would need to reduce the planet's human population to about half of what it is now in order to be truly sustainable - because, tragically, the human actions which damage the planet/environment are never going to diminish by any considerable degree.

[Suliso]

Soon enough we will have the opposite issue - an enormous population crash in 75% of the World. Issue is not less people, that would be great actually, instead it is that "half" of those people will be 60+ year old. Not sure how future societies will deal with that and how they'll eventually get back (or not) to those magical 2.1 kids per family.

[Suliso]

What people sometimes forget that demographic trends have a large time delay. For example, in South Korea there are hardly any children (0.8 to be precise) but to see an actual population decline we have to wait several decades before the old generation is no more.

[ponchi101]

This TED Talk was very instructive (it is from 2010).
As you say, the decline is not noticeable yet because we have a delay. And it is not that more people are being born; fewer people are dying.
Countries like S. Korea and Japan will have to accept more immigration or disappear. But with their very unique cultures, will they be able to accept new comers?

I gather that the reason people are stopping having children is simple: finances. George Friedman said it: FINANCIALLY SPEAKING, having a child is one of the worst decisions you can make.
I have three nephews/nieces that say that is the reason they did not (one of them is 40+) or will not (two of them are 30+) have kids. One more (20+) is still open to the idea. But, out of 7 nieces/nephews, I have only three grand-nephews.
And we all are middle class. I guess it is a small piece of data to count.