Talk About Tennis 2.0

Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:22 pm It seems unlikely he'll manage it here, but he has beaten Djokovic twice. Last time being 2018 WTF finals on indoor hard.

Totally. Is it 100% out of the question? No. Play the match. But he is truly looking very hard to beat.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:07 pm Djokovic's 2 & 0 over Kei is pretty impressive. I know Kei is not the same player as before, bit that score is extreme.
I remember a few years ago, in TAT1.0, with Drop and I talking about Novak and his performance. We were saying "how do you stop this?". A fellow member interrupted us and said that we were suffering from "what I am seeing now is the greatest" syndrome. Drop and I agreed that we were perhaps under that spell.
A few years later, I wonder if we were not. How do you really stop this guy? Zverev is going to have to serve at 90% to have a chance.

I think the other member is right. If Andy's body wasn't failing him for the last few years, I don't think you would be asking that question as much. You would at times, but not so long ago, Novak wasn't just winning everything. But his toughest competition is aging or injured. Kei can be included in that since we can probably all remember what a healthy Kei looked like against Novak. And remember, both Kei and Del Potro are younger than Novak too. Even Dominic Thiem, who seems to be getting forgotten by people on this forum for reasons unknown, is a tough out for Novak on hard courts not just on clay. Novak is playing great, but his greatness is somewhat amplified right now because of who is missing.

Svitolina jinxed herself. She said for Ukraine the Olympics is like a Slam.

Not like she's doing so amazing in Slams either. See my comment few days ago about her not having A+ game at all. I still stand by that assessment.

Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:35 pm Not like she's doing so amazing in Slams either. See my comment few days ago about her not having A+ game at all. I still stand by that assessment.

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:43 pm ...

I think the other member is right. If Andy's body wasn't failing him for the last few years, I don't think you would be asking that question as much. You would at times, but not so long ago, Novak wasn't just winning everything. But his toughest competition is aging or injured. Kei can be included in that since we can probably all remember what a healthy Kei looked like against Novak. And remember, both Kei and Del Potro are younger than Novak too. Even Dominic Thiem, who seems to be getting forgotten by people on this forum for reasons unknown, is a tough out for Novak on hard courts not just on clay. Novak is playing great, but his greatness is somewhat amplified right now because of who is missing.

The man has won three slams this year, and the reason is because who is missing?

Thiem. The man has not played in months. Hard to keep him in mind.
And as the person that posted his LEFT HANDED video, I have not forgotten him. But not much to talk about him lately, other than in the injury topic.

Very happy for Belinda! Now bring home the Gold please

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:46 pm The man has won three slams this year, and the reason is because who is missing?

Thiem. The man has not played in months. Hard to keep him in mind.
And as the person that posted his LEFT HANDED video, I have not forgotten him. But not much to talk about him lately, other than in the injury topic.

No it's not the reason, it's a contributing factor. I think how you're thinking about him right now, his dominance, is in part because of who is missing.

In terms of Thiem, I'm was especially talking about the Olympics and this format. A healthy Andy is obviously capable of beating Novak. Delpo beat him at the last Olympics and is missing right now. Thiem beat Djokovic in the last two ATP Finals in the 3-set format on hard courts. And yes, he's injured right now, that's the point.

I don't remember you saying this in 2016, and take away Federer and Nadal, the competition that was expected to be with him, that is his age or younger, is down and out due to injury these days or greatly hampered by repeated injuries and that's my point. Add them back and is he winning at the same level he is right now? Doubtful. Winning a lot? Sure, he's done that his entire career. But not getting challenged wasn't the norm for him and I doubt it would be now.

Come on... let's be real here... Are we really going to diminish Djokovic's accomplishments based on 'what ifs'?
Djokovic, Nadal, and Federer have all played in an Era where they have had to face each other. That's 60 Majors bewtween them. This is absolutely unprecedented. Everyone said that Sampras was one of the greatest because he beat Emerson's record of winning 12 Majors. But Sampras wasn't playing against others who won as many Majors as him - let alone 2 others.

Also, if you look at the Major winners over the past 50 years or so, probably at least half of them were won having a legitimate contender out of the tournament (either losing early, or not playing due to injury).
So to diminish Djokovic's accomplishments because, say, Thiem and Del Potro have been injured is not at all fair to Djokovic. Every champion went through something similar. Are we then to put asterisks beside them all? Seriously?

Again, Djokovic, Nadal, and Federer have won 20 Majors each WHILE HAVING TO PLAY EACH OTHER throughout that time. Twenty years ago, if someone would have proposed that this was going to happen - with ANY 3 players - they'd have been laughed off of the planet. That's how impressive this feat is - for each of them.

And I'm saying this as one who is not a Djokovic fan - I don't like his playing style or his personality. But I certainly won't deny him his accomplishments, or the credit and admiration he is due.

Khachanov in a fairly routine straight sets over Carreno Busta.

After a quick and very one-sided 1st set (6-1 Djokovic), Zverev put together a mini streak of 9 straight points and 12 of 13 toward the end of the 2nd set to take it 6-3, making the match suddenly both interesting and entertaining.
Zverev broke to open the 3rd. Then held. Then broke again. Then held again. He's won 8 straight games now - 4-0 in the 3rd.
Djokovic is not looking like his usual immortal self. Chinks are showing in the armour - many uncharacteristic mistakes. In the past, he has reached down and found ways to win even when it looked certain that he'd lose. Can he do it again here?
Can Zverev maintain this pace and not choke?

I wouldn't count Djokovic out, even at this point.

Well... No 'Golden Slam' this year. 6-1 Zverev in the 3rd.

Zverev played really well from about the midway point of the 2nd set to the end. But he was helped greatly by Djokovic, who very simply - and very uncharacteristically - vanished.

I have Zverev winning the title in predictions.

You are some sort of genius...
It is a strange dynamic. He is still very dominant at Slams, and not so at regular tour events. And of course, the difference is the best of 5 format, and the in-between day of rest.
So it seems him and Roger will have that NO OLYMPIC GOLD hole in their resume, as Rafa will most likely have his NO YEAR END CHAMPIONSHIPS. I don't know if the three years until Paris 2024, on clay, will take away from him. Then again, by now I don't bet against anything the big three can do.