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[ti-amie]

Thank you Jazz. Horrific.

[ti-amie]

[ti-amie]

Uh oh...

[ponchi101]

Sickening.
But to be expected. It is like that NRA convention where guns will not be allowed. Even the cops know that, if somebody has an AR15, their ass is not safe. Sure, maybe the bullet proof vest will stop a bullet, but you can easily lose an arm, a leg, of get shot in the head.
And Ted Cruz has been shown on picture hugging a mourning parent. Why didn't that parent strangle him is beyond my comprehension.

[ti-amie]

[ti-amie]

[Deuce]

You'd be surprised how much could be changed via legislation alone. I've seen it myself in other countries.

In any case the other option is do nothing and hope for the best. But the best will not happen...

Where do you get that the alternative is to do nothing?
As I've said numerous times (over the years) - one significant step to take would be to stop the media from reporting these things, which, in the eyes of those who are capable of committing these crimes, just serves to sensationalize and glorify these acts - and promise 'fame'.

As I said - sure, institute some type of much stricter gun control. But if that's the only thing that people are counting on to solve this problem, it's nowhere near enough. And changing the gun-happy culture in the U.S. will not be done by legislation alone. No way in hell. All that would do is to create a massive uprising. The U.S. mindset is not the same as the U.K. (Dunblane) or Australia (Port Arthur) - not even close - so using them as examples is comparing apples to oranges.

There needs to be efforts at the community level to change the culture. Not only change the gun-happy culture, but also work to minimize things like bullying and other types of abuse, work to help people feel less lonely and isolated, work to encourage respect among people, etc. That and eliminating the media sensationalisms about these events.
It won't be accomplished overnight, but those are the only avenues that will work in a practical sense.

[JazzNU]

This just keeps getting worse. Let's hope they got more than their own kids out if this ends up being true.

[Deuce]

The great majority of this is media gossip BS.
I'm not generally a fan of police - I've seen them abuse - and kill - vulnerable people far too often...
But it's so incredibly easy for people to speculate about the police response and criticize from the comfort of their living room chairs.
I wonder how you'd (all of you who are critical, despite your information being mere hearsay) I wonder how you'd respond if you were involved in an event like this as a police officer. It's fine to say that you'd be totally willing to go into an area blind, thus risking your life, in the hope that you can stop the murderer.
So easy to say from here...

Maybe the police screwed up. Maybe they were selfish.
Maybe they didn't screw up. Maybe they weren't selfish.
Only they themselves know. Without knowing all the facts and everything involved, the rest is mere speculation.

Remember - killers like this kid don't care anymore. He didn't care who he killed, or how many he killed. He'd kill you instantly without a thought if he had the opportunity to.
So... before getting on your high horses to criticize the police, take a step back and consider - really consider - what it was like to be there as the police.
Even in your wildest imaginings, you cannot come close to knowing what it truly feels like to be in that situation.

Just something to think about, huh?

[Owendonovan]

The great majority of this is media gossip BS.
I'm not generally a fan of police - I've seen them abuse - and kill - vulnerable people far too often...
But it's so incredibly easy for people to speculate about the police response and criticize from the comfort of their living room chairs.
I wonder how you'd (all of you who are critical, despite your information being mere hearsay) I wonder how you'd respond if you were involved in an event like this as a police officer. It's fine to say that you'd be totally willing to go into an area blind, thus risking your life, in the hope that you can stop the murderer.
So easy to say from here...


Maybe the police screwed up. Maybe they were selfish.
Maybe they didn't screw up. Maybe they weren't selfish.
Only they themselves know. Without knowing all the facts and everything involved, the rest is mere speculation.

Remember - killers like this kid don't care anymore. He didn't care who he killed, or how many he killed. He'd kill you instantly without a thought if he had the opportunity to.
So... before getting on your high horses to criticize the police, take a step back and consider - really consider - what it was like to be there as the police.
Even in your wildest imaginings, you cannot come close to knowing what it truly feels like to be in that situation.

Just something to think about, huh?

It’s the job of the police to put themselves in dangerous situations that they are supposed to be trained for. If they aren’t willing to do that they have no business in the profession.

[Deuce]

So easy to say from the comfort and safety of home.
A little perspective is needed here, please.
As I said - don't be so quick to criticize responders to extreme situations like this until you walk a mile in their shoes.

[Owendonovan]

If not the police, then who handles these situations. I'm not saying it's easy for the police in any way, I'm saying they are the people who we, as a society, have chosen to handle these extremely dangerous situations. I wasn't there, I don't know what it was like, but I can see it from both sides, and by most accounts, the expectations society has put on the police was not met.

[mmmm8]

Excellent point by Mr Barr.
It is the insane parts of US policies. They are so contradictory, and this is a very clear example.

The messaging is contradictory, the policies, at a high level, are not.

Protect corporate interests and freedoms - thereby favoring white men, big business, and the military-industrial complex - at any cost; control and avoid investing in anything else as far as the electorate will tolerate.

I'm not saying every politician has this agenda, but it's the underlying philosophy of the legislative branch - including the Dems.

[ti-amie]

There is now a fourth story about what happened.

[ti-amie]