Re: Tennis Random, Random
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:57 am
Also one should note that nobody is doing anything to her (not even removing that stadium name). We merely advocate not bestowing even more honor and recognition to her.
We still talk about tennis. And much more.
https://talkabouttennis2.com/
mick1303 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:02 am Regarding Margaret Court: since I'm from former Soviet Union - for a long time I was deprived of wide variety of information, so IDK how her views evolved. The information I had in the past were tennis results and occasionally some short footage. And those results were commanding respect. In tennis you can't hide behind the team or officials (latter is not 100% true, but the friendly officials can impact the result only to limited degree). It is one-on-one and she earned all those wins by herself. I think these results in individual sport cannot be achieved without high mark of personal integrity. Also what I personally resent is a gang mentality when everyone starts targeting certain individual or group in an orchestrated manner. This is in a creepy way resembles how during the worst Stalin times the "enemies of the people" were vilified...
You can google her views. It will take you a minute or two. Her views haven't evolved. They have stayed the same. That's kind of the point. I don't think anyone here is saying her tennis creds are lacking. What we are saying is that someone who repeatedly takes highly homophobic positions doesn't deserve to have an arena named after her.mick1303 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:02 am Regarding Margaret Court: since I'm from former Soviet Union - for a long time I was deprived of wide variety of information, so IDK how her views evolved. The information I had in the past were tennis results and occasionally some short footage. And those results were commanding respect. In tennis you can't hide behind the team or officials (latter is not 100% true, but the friendly officials can impact the result only to limited degree). It is one-on-one and she earned all those wins by herself. I think these results in individual sport cannot be achieved without high mark of personal integrity. Also what I personally resent is a gang mentality when everyone starts targeting certain individual or group in an orchestrated manner. This is in a creepy way resembles how during the worst Stalin times the "enemies of the people" were vilified...
I'm with you on Court's tennis record. Her heinous views don't affect her wins. She won those titles fair and square, as far as I know.ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:18 pm As, I believe, the sole citizen of a dictatorship at the moment, I agree with you, Mick, that "gang mentality" is a terrible thing, and I would not like it applied to anybody.
I am, maybe with you, the sole person that defends Court's record on court. For example, I do not agree that her Aussie Open's are diluted; she won six of those against multiple slams winners somewhere else (and it is a good tennis topic, I believe).
And if somebody were to propose some sort of punishment for Court, I would disagree. Her appalling opinions are hers, and as long as they are not actionable the best course is to ignore her.
But those same statements and opinions make her a very unsavory character. Remember, we were talking hypothetics; nobody is remotely considering a female version of the Laver Cup. Granting her the honor of naming such an event after her would be myopic to the fullest.
I still say The Navratilova Cup. A woman of integrity, that deeply changed tennis. And has always spoken her mind, progressively.
Word. Homophobia, especially when it's wrapped in a soft-spoken religious package, often gets a pass that it doesn't deserve.meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:29 pmI'm with you on Court's tennis record. Her heinous views don't affect her wins. She won those titles fair and square, as far as I know.ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:18 pm As, I believe, the sole citizen of a dictatorship at the moment, I agree with you, Mick, that "gang mentality" is a terrible thing, and I would not like it applied to anybody.
I am, maybe with you, the sole person that defends Court's record on court. For example, I do not agree that her Aussie Open's are diluted; she won six of those against multiple slams winners somewhere else (and it is a good tennis topic, I believe).
And if somebody were to propose some sort of punishment for Court, I would disagree. Her appalling opinions are hers, and as long as they are not actionable the best course is to ignore her.
But those same statements and opinions make her a very unsavory character. Remember, we were talking hypothetics; nobody is remotely considering a female version of the Laver Cup. Granting her the honor of naming such and event after her would be myopic to the fullest.
I still say The Navratilova Cup. A woman of integrity, that deeply changed tennis. And has always spoken her mind, progressively.
But it makes no sense to confer any honors on her from this point on. I don't think a widely held belief equals gang mentality.
I support removing her name from the Australian Open court. If an arena was named after a staunch racist who was actively and publicly working in that direction, I doubt there would be a question about it.
The Gibson Cup.
If this would ever happen, it would be completely lovely to call it that way.
I did try to google "Margaret Court racist". And you know how google works - when you start typing - it gives you hints - possible conclusion of your search string. In this case it was nothing. And in the search results there were accusation against Court for being homophobic, but nothing about her being racist. More precisely - the title says that Navratilova accuses Court for being racist and homophobic, but when you read further - nothing specific about being a racist. I could not follow all links, because some of them insisted on me disabling Ad Blocker, which I would not do.mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:01 pmmick1303 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:02 am Regarding Margaret Court: since I'm from former Soviet Union - for a long time I was deprived of wide variety of information, so IDK how her views evolved. The information I had in the past were tennis results and occasionally some short footage. And those results were commanding respect. In tennis you can't hide behind the team or officials (latter is not 100% true, but the friendly officials can impact the result only to limited degree). It is one-on-one and she earned all those wins by herself. I think these results in individual sport cannot be achieved without high mark of personal integrity. Also what I personally resent is a gang mentality when everyone starts targeting certain individual or group in an orchestrated manner. This is in a creepy way resembles how during the worst Stalin times the "enemies of the people" were vilified...
Mick, I'm also from the former Soviet Union. A country that, at its best, strongly opposed Apartheid, which Court supported, for example (talk about targeting a group in an orchestrated manner). Moreover, that country hasn't existed for 30 years, so one's had 30 years to get more context for Margaret Court and the views she espoused while she was at the height of her success and relevance and hasn't really backed down from. Personal integrity really just means being true to one's self. If one's self is a racist homophobe, it doesn't necessarily command the respect of others. When one is so abhorrent and outspoken in their views, criticizing them isn't "targeting," it's legitmate outrage.
Ironically (and hypocritically), the people who claim to be against labelling the most are very often the ones who label others the most. There are examples of this everywhere - it happens over and over and over. Just as those who claim to be very open and tolerant are the ones who are the least tolerant of any opinion or perspective which differs from their own.mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:46 am I did try to google "Margaret Court racist". And you know how google works - when you start typing - it gives you hints - possible conclusion of your search string. In this case it was nothing. And in the search results there were accusation against Court for being homophobic, but nothing about her being racist. More precisely - the title says that Navratilova accuses Court for being racist and homophobic, but when you read further - nothing specific about being a racist. I could not follow all links, because some of them insisted on me disabling Ad Blocker, which I would not do.