Talk About Tennis 2.0

mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:46 am I did try to google "Margaret Court racist". And you know how google works - when you start typing - it gives you hints - possible conclusion of your search string. In this case it was nothing. And in the search results there were accusation against Court for being homophobic, but nothing about her being racist. More precisely - the title says that Navratilova accuses Court for being racist and homophobic, but when you read further - nothing specific about being a racist. I could not follow all links, because some of them insisted on me disabling Ad Blocker, which I would not do.

If we to discuss the possibility of such Cup on ladies side - that would be a very intriguing competition, because the result is harder to predict. How to name it - I don't have a strong opinion. To me it is better to have such a competition regardless of how you name it.

mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:46 am

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:01 pm

mick1303 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:02 am Regarding Margaret Court: since I'm from former Soviet Union - for a long time I was deprived of wide variety of information, so IDK how her views evolved. The information I had in the past were tennis results and occasionally some short footage. And those results were commanding respect. In tennis you can't hide behind the team or officials (latter is not 100% true, but the friendly officials can impact the result only to limited degree). It is one-on-one and she earned all those wins by herself. I think these results in individual sport cannot be achieved without high mark of personal integrity. Also what I personally resent is a gang mentality when everyone starts targeting certain individual or group in an orchestrated manner. This is in a creepy way resembles how during the worst Stalin times the "enemies of the people" were vilified...

Mick, I'm also from the former Soviet Union. A country that, at its best, strongly opposed Apartheid, which Court supported, for example (talk about targeting a group in an orchestrated manner). Moreover, that country hasn't existed for 30 years, so one's had 30 years to get more context for Margaret Court and the views she espoused while she was at the height of her success and relevance and hasn't really backed down from. Personal integrity really just means being true to one's self. If one's self is a racist homophobe, it doesn't necessarily command the respect of others. When one is so abhorrent and outspoken in their views, criticizing them isn't "targeting," it's legitmate outrage.

I did try to google "Margaret Court racist". And you know how google works - when you start typing - it gives you hints - possible conclusion of your search string. In this case it was nothing. And in the search results there were accusation against Court for being homophobic, but nothing about her being racist. More precisely - the title says that Navratilova accuses Court for being racist and homophobic, but when you read further - nothing specific about being a racist. I could not follow all links, because some of them insisted on me disabling Ad Blocker, which I would not do.

If we to discuss the possibility of such Cup on ladies side - that would be a very intriguing competition, because the result is harder to predict. How to name it - I don't have a strong opinion. To me it is better to have such a competition regardless of how you name it.

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:35 pm

mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:46 am I did try to google "Margaret Court racist". And you know how google works - when you start typing - it gives you hints - possible conclusion of your search string. In this case it was nothing. And in the search results there were accusation against Court for being homophobic, but nothing about her being racist. More precisely - the title says that Navratilova accuses Court for being racist and homophobic, but when you read further - nothing specific about being a racist. I could not follow all links, because some of them insisted on me disabling Ad Blocker, which I would not do.

If we to discuss the possibility of such Cup on ladies side - that would be a very intriguing competition, because the result is harder to predict. How to name it - I don't have a strong opinion. To me it is better to have such a competition regardless of how you name it.

Do you think we are collectively lying to you?

Here are two articles found in about 10 seconds by using Google that have:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... f-a-nation
https://indianexpress.com/article/expla ... n-7160054/

You can also read her Wikipedia entry.

I'm sure you'll say she's not racist because she said she "loves all people..." while advocating for segregation.

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:00 pmI give up.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:14 pm I think he can make a good coach. Lots of energy and drive, so for a young Argentinean coming into the tour, he could provide a lot.
Indeed, I wish him well. He is also a very likeable person.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:17 pm Could be. And Argie's like to stick to their own coaches. Although I do not see much upside to Cerundolo.

mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:53 pm

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:35 pm

mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:46 am I did try to google "Margaret Court racist". And you know how google works - when you start typing - it gives you hints - possible conclusion of your search string. In this case it was nothing. And in the search results there were accusation against Court for being homophobic, but nothing about her being racist. More precisely - the title says that Navratilova accuses Court for being racist and homophobic, but when you read further - nothing specific about being a racist. I could not follow all links, because some of them insisted on me disabling Ad Blocker, which I would not do.

If we to discuss the possibility of such Cup on ladies side - that would be a very intriguing competition, because the result is harder to predict. How to name it - I don't have a strong opinion. To me it is better to have such a competition regardless of how you name it.

Do you think we are collectively lying to you?

Here are two articles found in about 10 seconds by using Google that have:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... f-a-nation
https://indianexpress.com/article/expla ... n-7160054/

You can also read her Wikipedia entry.

I'm sure you'll say she's not racist because she said she "loves all people..." while advocating for segregation.

In 1970, Court kicked things off by praising South Africa’s apartheid policy (“South Africans have this thing better organised than any other country, particularly America,” she said. “I love South Africa. I’ll go back there any time.”), for which she received very little lasting scrutiny.
============
These quotes of Court in this article is ALL THERE IS on her alleged racist views. And I've seen oh so many times how media quotes out of context, PUSHING THEIR OWN AGENDA. Maybe, just maybe - she "received very little lasting scrutiny" because she wasn't talking about apartheid? Because "this thing" is too generic to rely on. Why this quote is so short? Such short quotes to me is a signal that someone is trying to tamper with the source...

Also - when a writer expresses a displeasure that someone "received very little lasting scrutiny" for a statement rather than an action - to me it is not a good outlook. I'm starting to think that this writer - Russell Jackson - would like a free speech to be applied selectively - it is free for him, but others shall be scrutinized. Isn't it a bit hypocritical?

dmforever wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:28 pm

mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:53 pm

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:35 pm


Do you think we are collectively lying to you?

Here are two articles found in about 10 seconds by using Google that have:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... f-a-nation
https://indianexpress.com/article/expla ... n-7160054/

You can also read her Wikipedia entry.

I'm sure you'll say she's not racist because she said she "loves all people..." while advocating for segregation.

In 1970, Court kicked things off by praising South Africa’s apartheid policy (“South Africans have this thing better organised than any other country, particularly America,” she said. “I love South Africa. I’ll go back there any time.”), for which she received very little lasting scrutiny.
============
These quotes of Court in this article is ALL THERE IS on her alleged racist views. And I've seen oh so many times how media quotes out of context, PUSHING THEIR OWN AGENDA. Maybe, just maybe - she "received very little lasting scrutiny" because she wasn't talking about apartheid? Because "this thing" is too generic to rely on. Why this quote is so short? Such short quotes to me is a signal that someone is trying to tamper with the source...

Also - when a writer expresses a displeasure that someone "received very little lasting scrutiny" for a statement rather than an action - to me it is not a good outlook. I'm starting to think that this writer - Russell Jackson - would like a free speech to be applied selectively - it is free for him, but others shall be scrutinized. Isn't it a bit hypocritical?

I'll say it one more time and then I'll quit. You have made zero comment on her repeated extremely homophobic stances. I can only assume that those stances aren't problematic for you.

Kevin