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Re: Tennis Players Random, Random 2.0
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:27 am
by Deuce
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:42 am
Mulling over some (probably false) equivalences...
Barty = Federer (footwork, smooth, quick, precise serve..)
Andreescu = Djokovic (no weakness, best on hard courts but can do well on any surface)
Swiatek = Nadal (sprightly, quick, topspin, great on clay)
closest I can think of for Serena is DelPo but it seems sacrilege to compare Serena with anyone at all, so I wont..
any thoughts?
Since you asked for thoughts...
You're comparing a player (Djokovic) who's been at or near the top of the rankings for over a decade to a player (Andreescu) who had a good 6 months more than 2 years ago, and who has done nothing of note since then.
Andreescu has "no weaknesses"? Really? While that may have very arguably seemed true during her good run of 6 months in 2019, I think she's demonstrated plenty of weaknesses since then. Firstly, she is almost never healthy. Her history of being very easily injured goes back to her Junior days. Secondly, she is wildly inconsistent. Also, back in 2019, she came on the scene pretty much as an unknown - and people didn't know how to play her. Since then, in the tournaments she has actually played, the other players have had time to study her and figure out how to play her, see what her weaknesses are, etc. The result is that she is now ranked number 46.
So to say that she has "no weaknesses" seems highly inaccurate, to say the least.
I honestly can't understand why so many people think that she's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Some people talk about her as if she's been in the top 5 for 10 years (she was in the top 10 for over 2 years, but that was ONLY because of the messed up ranking system they came up with to compensate for COVID-19). What has she done to make people think she's so great? She had a good 6 months - that's all. 6 months is a small blip in a typical career. Many mediocre players have a really good 6 month period - and it's soon forgotten. Many great players have a really bad 6 month period - and it's soon forgotten.
So why is Andreescu's good 6 months more than 2 years ago still seen as such a great thing?
Andreescu's path at the pro level to this point looks quite similar to Genie's. Genie came on the scene, and other players didn't know how to play her. She took advantage of that and had a good 6 or 8 months - and her results were deserved - fine. Since then, after the other players figured out how to play her, she has plummeted down the rankings. (Of course, that was helped by her priority being to get compliments on her ass instead of on her tennis.)
To this point, Andreescu is following a similar path. I don't think she'll fall as far in the rankings as Genie, because Andreescu's a better player. But I definitely see more parallels with Genie's path than with, say, Barty's, or Muguruza's, etc.
Re: Tennis Players Random, Random 2.0
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:58 pm
by ashkor87
Wait and see! I have a higher opinion of her than you do.
Re: Tennis Players Random, Random 2.0
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:59 pm
by ashkor87
I am comparing their style of play...obviously even Barty has not won 20 majors!
Re: Tennis Players Random, Random 2.0
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:38 pm
by ponchi101
I would switch your Bianca-Novak comparison for peak Kerber-Djokovic. When Kerber was playing her best tennis, her strengths were: incredible fitness, and no real weakness anywhere, while not looking like having an extreme weakness.
Serena can be compared with peak Roger, i.e. circa 2006. No weaknesses, three weapons that were above everybody else's: serve, forehand and movement. And a fear factor that made them go out there, in every set, with a 3-0 lead before the warm up was finished.
Of course, if people say that Roger can be compared to peak Serena, it is hard to argue that one.
Re: Tennis Players Random, Random 2.0
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:03 pm
by ashkor87
Playing styles..Serena is not much like Federer, Barty is more like him...
Re: Tennis Players Random, Random 2.0
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:07 pm
by meganfernandez
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:42 am
Mulling over some (probably false) equivalences...
Barty = Federer (footwork, smooth, quick, precise serve..)
Andreescu = Djokovic (no weakness, best on hard courts but can do well on any surface)
Swiatek = Nadal (sprightly, quick, topspin, great on clay)
closest I can think of for Serena is DelPo but it seems sacrilege to compare Serena with anyone at all, so I wont..
any thoughts?
Interesting... Serena at her best didn't have any weaknesses and was the most mentally tough competitor out there. For that reason, I might say she's like Djokovic. But she also had the bail-out serve - it was one of her defining characteristics and a key to her success.
Re: Tennis Players Random, Random 2.0
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:42 pm
by meganfernandez
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:42 am
Mulling over some (probably false) equivalences...
Barty = Federer (footwork, smooth, quick, precise serve..)
Andreescu = Djokovic (no weakness, best on hard courts but can do well on any surface)
Swiatek = Nadal (sprightly, quick, topspin, great on clay)
closest I can think of for Serena is DelPo but it seems sacrilege to compare Serena with anyone at all, so I wont..
any thoughts?
Is Wozniakci like Murray? Someone criticized for playing too passively, won a ton of titles but low in the Slam count for their talent level and ranking history? Personalities separated at birth?

Re: Tennis Players Random, Random 2.0
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:59 pm
by Deuce
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:58 pm
Wait and see! I have a higher opinion of her than you do.
Ok - sure - we'll wait and see

.
I played that game with Louis Borfiga - in September, 2019, a couple of weeks after Andreescu's U.S. Open win, I asked Borfiga where he thought Andreescu would be in 3 years from then. He said "She'll be #1 or #2 in the world for sure." I told him I thought that she'd be around #30. A little more than 2 years later, my prediction seems more accurate than his.
He also said that Leylah would be around #50. I said that Leylah would be ranked ahead of Andreescu. I'm winning that one so far, too.
For the record, I think there's a greater chance that Andreescu will be retired in 2 years than that she'll be in the top 10 in 2 years.
Let's remember to bring up this topic in about a year!
.
Re: Tennis Players Random, Random 2.0
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:42 am
by ashkor87
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:07 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:42 am
Mulling over some (probably false) equivalences...
Barty = Federer (footwork, smooth, quick, precise serve..)
Andreescu = Djokovic (no weakness, best on hard courts but can do well on any surface)
Swiatek = Nadal (sprightly, quick, topspin, great on clay)
closest I can think of for Serena is DelPo but it seems sacrilege to compare Serena with anyone at all, so I wont..
any thoughts?
Interesting... Serena at her best didn't have any weaknesses and was the most mentally tough competitor out there. For that reason, I might say she's like Djokovic. But she also had the bail-out serve - it was one of her defining characteristics and a key to her success.
Yes, all true..
But, for me, Serena is overwhelming power..reminds me of Delpo more than anyone else
Re: Tennis Players Random, Random 2.0
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:47 am
by ashkor87
Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:59 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:58 pm
Wait and see! I have a higher opinion of her than you do.
Ok - sure - we'll wait and see

.
I played that game with Louis Borfiga - in September, 2019, a couple of weeks after Andreescu's U.S. Open win, I asked Borfiga where he thought Andreescu would be in 3 years from then. He said "She'll be #1 or #2 in the world for sure." I told him I thought that she'd be around #30. A little more than 2 years later, my prediction seems more accurate than his.
He also said that Leylah would be around #50. I said that Leylah would be ranked ahead of Andreescu. I'm winning that one so far, too.
For the record, I think there's a greater chance that Andreescu will be retired in 2 years than that she'll be in the top 10 in 2 years.
Let's remember to bring up this topic in about a year!
.
I repeat, my comment was about playing styles, not their achievements..I do think Clijsters is a lot like Djoko too..the flexibility, athleticism, defense...
Re: Tennis Players Random, Random 2.0
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:20 am
by ashkor87
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:42 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:42 am
Mulling over some (probably false) equivalences...
Barty = Federer (footwork, smooth, quick, precise serve..)
Andreescu = Djokovic (no weakness, best on hard courts but can do well on any surface)
Swiatek = Nadal (sprightly, quick, topspin, great on clay)
closest I can think of for Serena is DelPo but it seems sacrilege to compare Serena with anyone at all, so I wont..
any thoughts?
Is Wozniakci like Murray? Someone criticized for playing too passively, won a ton of titles but low in the Slam count for their talent level and ranking history? Personalities separated at birth?
Yes, I would agree with the Murray-woz equivalence...
Re: Tennis Players Random, Random 2.0
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:16 pm
by meganfernandez
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:42 am
Yes, all true..
But, for me, Serena is overwhelming power..reminds me of Delpo more than anyone else
Or Stan?
Re: Tennis Players Random, Random 2.0
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:50 pm
by ashkor87
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:16 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:42 am
Yes, all true..
But, for me, Serena is overwhelming power..reminds me of Delpo more than anyone else
Or Stan?
Yes, Stan may be better...
Re: Tennis Players Random, Random 2.0
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:19 pm
by ponchi101
And thinking more about it, Delpo and Serena.... ugh, I can't buy that comparison, Ashkor. Delpo has a bazooka of a FH, and a very good serve, but the rest does not match with Serena. He was never a great mover, and the BH was not a defining shot.
It is tough to find the ATP version of Serena. Even if, as I said, I would go with Roger
Re: Tennis Players Random, Random 2.0
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:39 pm
by meganfernandez
Have we discussed the Fruhvitrova sisters here before? Linda is 16 and Brenda is 14. The are Czech and they train at Mouratoglou. They just played each other in three consecutive ITF junior finals at the highest level. Linda won 2 and Brenda won 1. This tweet is from the R1 of last week's tournament, which Linda won.