Talk About Tennis 2.0 • Racquets/Strings

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:42 pm He did, initially. Then he had them made from the manufacturer, who was Snauwaert first, then Wilson.
At that time, there was another manufacturer that also did a super dense pattern, with 50% more string needed. But I forget who was that.
In the picture, you can clearly see Woodforde's pattern is not standard. Counting, you can see it is a 12x16 pattern. His idea was that it gave him more spin. On the other hand, he had to string it to the max, or it would be too much of a catapult.

Yes - they were made for him with that drill pattern. I just meant that that drill pattern was never commercially available to non-pros.

The dense pattern you're thinking of was probably the Pro-Kennex Micro. They made a few versions of it. String pattern on the original was 22M, 30C. Rather insane. Had to be strung with very thin 19 to 21 gauge string that Kennex made especially for it (or fishing line

). A friend of mine had the original Micro, and I hit with it. It was unplayable - was like hitting with a wall of lubricated glass. The ball would just slide on the strings. No bite at all, not surprisingly. It might be barely playable if it were strung at 10 pounds, but the recommended tension (I think it was 35 to 50 pounds) was way too high for this thing. The racquet was just a really bad idea.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:42 pm Story about the Ergonom. I was helping with an exhibition in Caracas, the Marlboro Cup (yep, with pretty girls handing out samples, dressed in red and white miniskirts and all). Andress Gomez was one of the participants and somebody had an Ergonom. So Gomez, for fun, asked to hit a few with the racquet. As he had one of the most extreme forehand grips, which whipped way too fast through the contact point, he missed the first ball completely. He clanked the second out of the stadium. He laughed and picked up his Yonex. End of that promotion, right there.

Great story! Had me laughing. Gomez was probably about the worst player one could get to try the Ergonom, with his extreme grip.
But then I think most pros would have had a hard time with that frame. Something tells me that Connors would have been the one to figure it out, as he had a tendency to play frames that were notoriously difficult to tame.

I never hit with an Ergonom myself. Picked one up in a store once - a racquet store owner I knew was also a collector, and he had one in his store - but it wasn't strung (it must be interesting to string - you can't tell the Mains from the Crosses!).

Here are a few photos from that guy's collection (I guess we should move these posts to the Racquets section now

)...
The Bergelin, you'll likely recall, was a racquet whose tension one could adjust 'on the fly' (on-court). Interesting idea, but...

by ponchi101 The Pro-Kennex Micro indeed. Again, never played with one. They never made it down home.
Connors could have used the Ergonom, with his flat strokes. He could have kept the head oriented in the right direction. And he seldom spun his racquet in his hands, so he had that down pat.
He put some lead tape in his racquet head (when he was playing with the Pro Staff 6.0) but only on one side, so if he spun it, it could end on the "wrong" end.

by Deuce The current problems with the volcanic eruption on the island of St. Vincent bring to mind the Wilson Pro Staff 6.0 85 sq. in...

There was a mystique about these frames - but only the ones made on the island of St. Vincent. This is largely - if not completely - the result of Pete Sampras apparently insisting that all of his P.S. 6.0 frames be ones made at St. Vincent, and not the more ubiquitous Chicago made ones.
Of course, Sampras is also the player who insisted that Wilson never paint his P.S. 6.0 frames to look like a more modern model because he said he could feel the difference in playability that the different paint created.

So... here's to the people of St. Vincent - home of the iconic Wilson Pro Staff 6.0 85. May they all find safe ground in the midst of this natural disaster.

(Search for 'Vincent' in the link below...)

https://handwiki.org/wiki/Engineering:W ... iginal_6.0

.

by ponchi101 I say that he had not been so stubborn sticking to the 6.0/85sqin and sticking to natural gut, he would have won two more slams. He should have gone the way of Agassi, always playing with the latest Head available (once he settled with them).

by Deuce I don't think Agassi changed frames very much, if at all, beyond a certain point.
I heard that his Head Radicals were all the same, despite the different paint jobs, and that they were made to play similarly to the Prince Original Graphite.

by ashkor87 what is your experience with the vibration dampeners? I always feel their effect is more psychological than real.. anyone find them useful? Do the top players use them?

by Deuce

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 6:45 am what is your experience with the vibration dampeners? I always feel their effect is more psychological than real.. anyone find them useful? Do the top players use them?

Don't get me started on this!

Well... I guess it's too late for that...

Firstly, yes, many pro players use vibration dampeners (and some even get paid for it!).
Andre Agassi was famous for using a simple rubber band tied around the strings as his vibration dampener.

Yes, it is psychological in the sense that whether you have one on your strings or not, the ball will rebound off the strings in exactly the same manner - it makes absolutely no difference to the tension, or to the way that the racquet or the strings play.
That said, I use one. Because it changes the way that the racquet feels. Some say it 'dampens' the feel. Others say the feeling is more 'muted' with it. I really don't care how the change in feel is described - I play with one because I prefer the way that my racquets feel with one than without one. And anyone who knows me knows that, to me, feel is the most important element of a racquet.

I've been using cable grommets as vibration dampeners for many years - ever since I found one on a court, and my friend the handyman said "It's just a regular cable grommet". Off to the local hardware store I went to buy a package of cable grommets - which are far less expensive than any of the many devices marketed as vibration dampeners.
My very first vibration dampener - a few decades ago - was the 'Donnay Vibrazorb', which was essentially just a 3 coloured piece of foam in a cylinder type shape. Being foam, it eventually disintegrated.

There is a rule about the installation of vibration dampeners - they "may be placed only outside the pattern of crossed strings". That is, between the last cross string (or last main string) and the frame.

by ashkor87 yikes! many things I didnt know.. thanks
I prefer the sound of the strings without the dampener, so I hate them...

by ponchi101 To me, they do change the feeling of the racquet a lot. It is up to you to decide if for good or for bad. I use one, so I think they are useful, specially for hackers like me that can't find the center of the racquet with the needed frequency.
Remember too that they came into use at a time when the racquet technology was not as good as today; some racquet of the near past were tuning forks. Hit one ball outside the sweet spot of a Wilson Ultra II and your tennis elbow was guaranteed (just an example).

by ashkor87 btw if I remember right, Agassi used to add a weight to his racket head, because he wanted a heavier racket, nothing much to do with vibration

by Deuce

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:43 am btw if I remember right, Agassi used to add a weight to his racket head, because he wanted a heavier racket, nothing much to do with vibration

Many players add weight to their racquets - usually in the form of lead tape. This has been happening since the wood racquet era.
Generally speaking, the heavier a racquet is, the less problems with vibration that it will have. This is the same principle that a fully loaded freight car (on a freight train) will be more stable, and bounce around on the tracks less, than an empty freight car. (A conductor once told me that most train derailments are caused by empty freight cars jumping off of the tracks.)

But reducing vibrations is not the main reason that players put weights on their racquets. The main reason is to modify the balance and swingweight of the frame.
Most of the top 100 players or so use frames that are made specifically to their specifications by the racquet companies. This can include custom layups of material, custom head size, custom length, custom drill pattern for the strings, etc. Despite looking the same as the racquets available to the public in stores, they are not, for the most part. There's a lot of deception going on, for the purposes of marketing - and the players are complicit in this deception.

This was not always the case. In the wood/metal racquet era, and the first couple of generations of graphite frames, the players used pretty much the same frames available to the general public in stores. Some players (those who could afford it) would hire someone to customize the stock frames for them. Warren Bosworth is probably the most well known 'racquet technician' - he was famous for customizing Lendl's frames, among others.
Today, even though the racquets of the top pros come already customized for the player from the racquet company, racquet technicians are a dime a dozen, and they'll do anything from customized stringing to further modifying the frames.

Changing the weight/swingweight/balance of a racquet can make a significant difference. And this is usually done with lead tape at various points in the hoop of the frame. But players will also add weight to the handle area at times. Sometimes, where they place the weight - and how much weight they put - will vary, depending on the court surface, the air temperature, and even the tension of the strings.

I believe the original Wilson Ultra (graphite) was the first racquet to come with weights already added to the hoop of the racquet - 4 small metal weights were riveted to the hoop at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock. They called this PWS - for Perimeter Weighting System (racquet companies LOVE to make simple things sound complicated - it wasn't a 'system', it was simply a few little weights riveted to the frame - very rudimentary... another example of a racquet company trying to make a simple thing sound 'sophisticated' is Head's CAP grommets - CAP stands for 'Computer Assisted Protection' - but all it is is a bumper that wraps around the frame more than most bumpers, and extends around the entire perimeter of the head - or hoop).
These metal weights on the Ultra would get loose within the rivets with repeated ball striking, and you could eventually hear them rattling around, which was rather annoying.

After that experiment, Wilson began adding 'bulges' to the hoops of most of their frames at 3 and 9 o'clock. This continues on most of their frames until today - still called 'PWS'. I, personally, view this as being just another gimmick, as, because they've been doing it with just about all of their frames, it has become a standard feature, and, even if there is a little added weight there, the bulges are completely unnecessary, and exist only for marketing purposes. Plus, with racquets without 'PWS', anyone can add lead tape in a matter of a couple of minutes.
While much of racquet manufacturing today is complicated, adding weight to alter the balance and swingweight is not exactly rocket science (as proof of this, I've been doing it with my own racquets for many years.)

by ponchi101 I was able to hit a little bit these days I spent in Georgia, and I borrowed a demo Wilson Clash for about 15 minutes.
The pro that lent it to me had it in his shop, and I had to refrain from complaining about one thing: he had the poor thing strung with the worst and probably cheapest strings possible. It was eye opening of how important good strings are. The racquet almost had no feel to it.
But there was even more. I found the racquet to be super soft, almost resembling an old, pure fiberglass frame. It is very soft on the elbow and joints (that was the reason I tried it) but the mushy feel was hard to get used to. I am not sure if it was all due to the terrible strings, but the frame felt spongey, like a trampoline. It is well balanced and light but, if you want to hit big, it does not have enough weight. Again, I am coming out of that elbow injury and the racquet did not feel like it would aggravate it, but I got the feeling that this racquet would be very difficult to put a lot of power on the ball.
I went on line and noticed that no pros use it on tour. Lots of people using the Pro Staffs, the Blades and even the Burns, but none is using the Clash (or I missed it). In short, it needs very good strings and it may be a good racquet for beginners and intermediates, but if you are a bit advanced, the other Wilson lines may be better.
And, at $249, I don't know if it is a good deal.

by Deuce When I saw your title 'The Wilson Clash', I thought the post would be about some sort of conflict within Wilson about racquets or strings!

I know nothing about the Clash, but it's good to hear that it's a soft frame, as I have found the huge majority of racquets over the past 15-20 years to be much too stiff and much too light. You say the Clash is light - which is a strike against it in my book, but weight can be added to light frames, at least. But if they're too stiff, nothing can be done to soften them, other than deliberately cracking it

.

As for your experience with the Clash... string tension is also of extreme importance, of course. String tension, string type, frame stiffness, and frame weight/swingweight are all very personal elements. There is no universal 'right' or 'wrong' - it's just whatever each person feels most comfortable with (and which does not cause elbow/arm/shoulder pain).

Personally, I'm very happy with my combination of 20 to 25 year old models - a blend of Head Prestige Classic 600s, iPrestige Mids, and Pro Tour 280s. I find them all extremely comfortable to hit with, have them strung at different tensions (within a 10 pound range)... and, perhaps best of all, when I hit poorly on a given day, I can rationalize it by telling myself (and anyone else who'll listen) that I hit poorly simply because I chose the wrong racquet to use that day.

by ponchi101 I would like to give the Clash a second try, but with proper strings. The one I tried was the equivalent of driving a Porsche with $75 tires (which I have never done, and I mean the Porsche thing).
The Clash with proper strings and at higher tensions may take care of the softness, which is a no for me.

by ti-amie

This is why people like Andy Murray.

I tried to get the sequence of tweets right

by ponchi101 Personal ideas.
Wozniacki went from her Babolat to a Yonex midway through her career. They were the bad years of her career, as the Yonex is famous for control (which Caro had in abundance) but not power (which she lacked). The Yonex made her a lighter hitter.
Tsonga went the opposite way. He went from an early Wilson frame (his Aussie slam final) to the Babolat. A player with abundant power went for even more, but he lost control.
Roger, Rafa, Nole and Andy have been with basically the same frame for ages (Nole went from Wilson to Head). Changing a racquet radically, for these guys, is a big gamble. Rafa could not switch to the Babolat's experimentals they were making for him. Roger took two years to tweak that frame of his, which is a marginal change from the "regular" Pro Staff he always used.
But when you see that even Murray is tinkering with his racquet, you can see how crucial that is. I would love to hear those guys discuss what they really have for a racquet (Nole, for example, has his racquet with considerable lead tape in the Head).

by Deuce I have heard from more than one good authority that Murray has used the Head PT57A for pretty much his full career. It's a very well known frame/layup among pros, and has been so for many years.
The PT57A is a Head Pro Tour 630. Head claim that Thomas Muster helped to design it - back in the 1990s.
It's a great frame - I have a couple (in the Pro Tour 280 version - the only difference between the 280 and the 630 being the grommet strip; 630 was with the CAP grommets for the European market, the 280 was with regular grommets for the North American market).
Of course, Murray, like the majority of pros, customizes the grip, adds weight, changes the balance, etc. - like silicone in the handle, etc.

I know that that generation of players (Murray, Nadal, Djokovic, Federer, etc.), as well as the previous generations, would, as a rule, stay with the same racquet model throughout - often the one they used as upcoming juniors. Only the cosmetics would change, based on what the given racquet company had in the stores at any given time (because it's a dishonest business). This makes sense, as once you find something that is comfortable, feels good, and works, you don't want to change.
There are a few exceptions - like Federer moving to a larger head frame (which very likely plays similarly to his old Wilson Pro Staff 6.0), and Djokovic moving from Wilson to Head, which has a different head shape - although Head very likely tried to replicate the feel of his Wilson frames.
Some players have made the mistake of changing racquet companies, and, despite the new company trying to replicate the previous company's frame, it wasn't similar enough.

I, myself, have preferred the 'Head feel' for most of my 40 years of playing - starting with the beautiful Arthur Ashe Competition frames. The Head frames that I've played with consistently over the past 15 years or so (Pro Tour 280, Prestige Classic 600, iPrestige Mid - they are all in my bag, and I alternate them, as they play only slightly different from one another) are an evolution of those Arthur Ashe Competitions.

See here...
Andy Murray's Racquet

I don't know what the generations of players that have come after the Nadal/Federer generation has done/is doing in terms of racquets. I tend to think they are probably more prone to changing more often because they were brought up in a time where everything changes so quickly, and where whatever you buy is obsolete a week after purchase. That, plus the marketing has been more aggressive and slick over the past 20 years or so... and racquet cosmetic designs have tended to be more flashy...

by ponchi101 Naomi will start using a new racquet starting at Cincy. Not a real new racquet, but new cosmetics, designed by a Japanese modern artist called Takashi Murakami. Surprisingly, it will not be sold, which I gather is so the stampede to buy it will not trample young fans. Just to few models auctioned, with proceeds going to charity.

by ponchi101 Shoes.
Because, you know, Roger will stop being a force in the sport once he retires.
Don't think so. ON SPORTS issued their IPO today. It went well.
They retail for about $140-$150, so I gather I will never know how good they are (I can find Adidas for around $70, so really, it would be a waste of footwear on an old foggy like me)

by ashkor87 I loved the 6.1 too...nowadays I play with the Wilson proStaff 97...tried the heaver version RF he plays with, my wrist couldn't handle it...getting old, I suppose..does anyone know which is the closest in feel to the venerable evergreen 6.1?

by Eckat I love the Fischer Vacuum Pro 90 (blue, gold pink) with its 16x20 string pattern. racket seems to hold forever. play with it since over 10 years now. also wilson pro staff midsize st. vincent and prince graphite original 4 stripe are very nice to play. string breaks all 15 minutes on the prince because of its 14x18 string pattern and my 1.20 string thickness prefer.

by ponchi101 If you have a prince graphite original it is time to frame it and put it on the wall. That is a classic

by Eckat I have three four stripes left, in very good condition

by Deuce

Eckat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:49 am I love the Fischer Vacuum Pro 90 (blue, gold pink) with its 16x20 string pattern. racket seems to hold forever. play with it since over 10 years now. also wilson pro staff midsize st. vincent and prince graphite original 4 stripe are very nice to play. string breaks all 15 minutes on the prince because of its 14x18 string pattern and my 1.20 string thickness prefer.

That Vac Pro 90 was a wonderful frame. I had 2 and loved them. They were so unique - no other racquet felt like it. With the elongated head, it literally felt like an extension of your arm. And it was so comfortably flexible...
Of course, I stupidly sold the 2 I had about 20 years ago. I really regret getting rid of them.

The Pro Staff 6.0 85 was a nice frame - I had a few. Nice feel, but I always had difficulty serving with them. I went from that to Pro Your 280s (630) and Prestige Classic 600s (Mid), and then grabbed a few iPrestige Mids, which feels like a smaller version of the 280/630.
That 280/630 make up, by the way, is what A LOT of Head pros have used over the years underneath various paint jobs - as the 'PT57A' pro stock name...

Magic Made in Austria - the PT57A

I never liked the Prince Original Graphite in any incarnation. It was too stiff for me.

I don't think classic racquets should be put on any walls - they just waste away on walls... they should be used and shared with younger players as much as possible - to show them how good racquets used to be (and how generic and unfeeling racquets are now). Whenever I've let younger players play with the old frames I still have, they are amazed with the feel, compared to today's frames.

(Sorry I can't help you with the white Mag Pro 90s - but here's one photo I found. They were definitely NOT hand painted - they were painted professionally, very likely by Prince. Underneath the white was the bare magnesium metal, not grey paint. And it had black piping in the same place as the white piping on the grey Mags, I believe.
If you have any more questions about the white Mag Pro 90s, don't hesitate to ask, and I'll tell you what I am able to remember about them.)

by Eckat hi again. yes I collect These rackets of t different Producers like wilson pro staff midsize St. Vincent, head Prestige Pro 600 wine red, head pro tour 630, puma boris becker World Champion racket, 2 very rare dunlop revelation pro tour series 90 rackets Mark philippoussis played I have, and a few more. 5 prince magnesium pro series 90 in my own and I shipped them to a paonting Company to get them white. the Hard Thing to paint are the grommets from Black to white and to See the design in the racket only having picture. there was lines colored in the racket dont know what color. on the top of the racket was the 90 number added what I See. rackets in very nice shape. want to play with them as long as they last.

by Deuce You're very lucky if your Mag Pro 90s are in good playing shape. Magnesium is a soft metal - which is what gives these racquets their amazing feel - but that also means that the racquets are fragile, and bend out of their original shape.

A couple of years ago, I noticed that Lizette Cabrera's coach had an old Dunlop Muscle Weave racquet (from about the year 2000) poking out his bag, and I asked him about it. He handed it to me and told me that it was Philippoussis's racquet, as he is a friend of Mark's. I said to him "They don't make racquets this good anymore." He said "You're absolutely right - today's racquets can't compare to the old ones." He was coaching a WTA player, and so could be using any current racquet he wanted - but he chose to use a 20 year old racquet. That says something.
I had a couple of Muscle Weave 90 racquets for a few years - very similar feel to the iPrestige Mids.

I never tried the Becker Pumas.
Another old classic frame I've never hit with is the Rossignol F200 Carbon. From everything I've heard about it being really soft and flexible, I'd probably love it. I have a friend who collects racquets who has at least one F200 Carbon, and one of these days, I'll hit with it - but I'll probably have to string it up myself.

The Arthur Ashe Competition racquets are other old classics. I adored those frames - fibreglass sandwiched between metal...

by Eckat do you have received my personal message with my email adress?

philipoussis 2.jpg

by Eckat this is the philippoussis racket I mean. second rarest racket to get after the white prince magnesium you cant get.

by ashkor87 Can anyone recommend a racket for my wife? She is a pretty good player, 4.0 class..but hasn't played regularly for 10 years
Wants something light, not too stiff..used to play with the Wilson Sting and liked it...

by Deuce The Sting - at least the original - was from the '80s, which was the best decade for racquets as far as I'm concerned.

My recommendation would be to find a good used racquet - maybe something like the Donnay Pro 1. That has a similar feel to racquets from the '80s or '90s.

I can't recommend any current racquets, because I've only tried a few. And I've only tried a few because I gave up on finding a current racquet I like more than 10 years ago when I found them all too stiff and too light.

by ponchi101 Try the Clash series. I would say it is a modern version of the Sting. Light, very easy on the arm, can play well both at the net and from the baseline.
When I tried it, the sole problem was that it was strung with terrible strings. Make sure you get really good strings, and it might be worth looking at them.
The Heads Graphenes are very much in vogue. Light but have some power.
For a 4.0, just think how fast her swing is. If she can swing the racquet fast enough, Yonex makes some excellent control racquets.

by ti-amie Stefanos added gut to his racquet. I saw the Tweet yesterday but can't find it now. What would that do to his shots?

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:52 am Stefanos added gut to his racquet. I saw the Tweet yesterday but can't find it now. What would that do to his shots?

More power - less spin.

by Deuce Better feel.
Gut is quite elasticky.
Polyester, on the other hand, is not very elasticky.

All strings stretch when stringing a racquet. Except for Kevlar strings. Kevlar has zero elasticity. It's known for destroying elbows.
(I once actually destroyed a ball using Kevlar strings. Because there's no elasticity, and the surface was rough, it cut right through the felt of a ball.)

by ponchi101

skatingfan wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:58 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:52 am Stefanos added gut to his racquet. I saw the Tweet yesterday but can't find it now. What would that do to his shots?
More power - less spin.

He added them on the crosses, not the mains, so the spin load basically remains the same but you get better feel. I am not sure if it will help with power.
I have never played with a hybrid. Never saw the point in it (says the weekend hacker, of course).

by ti-amie Here is the picture I was looking for.

by ashkor87 Thanks a lot, folks, for those very thoughtful bits of advice..have ordered the Clash 100 L..let us see how it goes

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:13 am Thanks a lot, folks, for those very thoughtful bits of advice..have ordered the Clash 100 L..let us see how it goes

Let us know how your wife likes it, and if you don't mind writing down your impressions, please do.
Also: make sure you put good strings on that racquet. The one I tried was really suffering from a poor stringing job.

by ashkor87 The Clash arrived yesterday, we eagerly unwrapped it and she tried it out this morning.. it is very good, light and powerful, great feel.. she really loved the music of the strings (racket is a stringed insyrument too!).. only down side is it was bit wobbly in her hands, she is not used to a large head.
I tried it too and found it superb in all dimensions, extremely easy to use, great feel and power..

thanks, again, @ponchi101 especially, for your advice!

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:21 am The Clash arrived yesterday, we eagerly unwrapped it and she tried it out this morning.. it is very good, light and powerful, great feel.. she really loved the music of the strings (racket is a stringed insyrument too!).. only down side is it was bit wobbly in her hands, she is not used to a large head.
I tried it too and found it superb in all dimensions, extremely easy to use, great feel and power..

thanks, again, @ponchi101 especially, for your advice!

Glad that it was a good choice. One question: what size grip did you get? I tried it as a 4 3/8 (I have small hands) and the grip was comfortable. If she feels it is a bit wobbly, try a tacky overwrap and it might help too.

by ashkor87 We get only 4 3/8 here..she is fine with that...small person with small hands so she will be fine...thanks

by ponchi101 Lost amidst all the tournament, I wonder if people have noticed that Kasatkina is playing with an ARTENGO racquet. ARTENGO is a brand from DECATHLON, a French retailer of sporting goods; this is similar as if somebody would be playing with a racquet from SAM SPORTING GOODS, or, even worse, WALMART.
Monfils is their signature sponsoree, but in view that Kasatkina is playing well, it kind of blows a hole through the entire "you need the new Wilsonex TRX 550 with liquid kevlar and perimeter balanced gyroscopically stabilized power surge technology", for $250 without strings. Probably Artengo manufactures their racquets in the same Chinese factory where all the others do.

by Deuce Yes... I saw that Kasatkina had switched to Artengo a few months ago, and was rather surprised.
I've never tried any of their frames, but I've seen them in the store. I have a friend who's looking to buy a new racquet, as his are rather old... He told me he was quite surprised to see the price of brand name racquets today - close to $300 Canadian. I told him to take a look at the Artengo racquets. Maybe the store can even be convinced to lend some out as demos.
And, yes, I, too, figure Artengo racquets likely come out of the same factories as the brand name racquets do.

I'm looking at possibly buying the same racquet bag that Kasatkina is using, as it's at least $50 cheaper than comparable bags from brand name manufacturers.

One negative that I see with the pro endorsements (which will likely increase in number) is that it will probably raise the prices of the Artengo racquets and bags in the not so distant future...

by Cuckoo4Coco The Wilson Clash racquets are awesome. I use the Clash 108 from Wilson with the Wilson NXT 16G string. I also use Wilson bags to hold all of my tennis gear.

by ponchi101 I would guess you are a baseliner with two-handed BH. I have not tried that Clash, but that would be too much power for me. I am thinking of moving UP and that to me means going from 95 to 98. I need a lot of control on my volleys and, when I tried the Clash 100 I felt it a bit too spongy and flexible for my FH volley.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:11 pm I would guess you are a baseliner with two-handed BH. I have not tried that Clash, but that would be too much power for me. I am thinking of moving UP and that to me means going from 95 to 98. I need a lot of control on my volleys and, when I tried the Clash 100 I felt it a bit too spongy and flexible for my FH volley.

I am more of a baseline player and I use my speed to my advantage. I do have a two handed BH who loves to move my opponent all over the court. My coach tells me that my two hand BH is my more consistent of my shots. My forehand can be deadly at times, but it can also disappear at times. I work on my strength all the time and I have come a very long way with that. I certainly don't overpower my opponents that I play that are my age and I find myself struggling sometimes against girls that are older than me. I guess that will improve over time. My speed however is what really gets me the results a lot.

by ponchi101 I was also a speedster, but I used it to come to net and finish with a volley.
But I also lacked power, so I could get blown off court by more powerful players. So, later in life, when I could see that my speed was starting to wane, I actually started to put more power, specially on my FH (my one handed BH was my best shot). And guess what? I was able to start hitting with more omph and eventually my FH, which was my weak side, became my new weapon. I could, against the people I was training with, hit two or three inside out FH's into their BH and then go inside in. I would say I was able to do that successfully 50% of the times.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:39 pm I was also a speedster, but I used it to come to net and finish with a volley.
But I also lacked power, so I could get blown off court by more powerful players. So, later in life, when I could see that my speed was starting to wane, I actually started to put more power, specially on my FH (my one handed BH was my best shot). And guess what? I was able to start hitting with more omph and eventually my FH, which was my weak side, became my new weapon. I could, against the people I was training with, hit two or three inside out FH's into their BH and then go inside in. I would say I was able to do that successfully 50% of the times.

I am still working on my volleys and even though I wouldn't say I was awful at it, I am not going to change my game to start serving and volleying now after all these years of tracing the baseline. I really feel my strength will build as I work on it and as my body continues to fill out. I am not looking to really bulk up, but more just add muscle instead of I guess just bones and skin. Another thing my coach is really working with me is my mental game. I mentioned my forehand from time to time flies out the window. Sometimes when this happens and especially when I am playing a more experienced player everything else seems to go out the window as well. That is something I really need to work on. I suppose every young player no matter what level they are playing at goes through that. I just have to have a more solid mental game if I want to be successful in the college game. Now a lot of times I can get by talking and yelling at myself on court, but when I am in college that isn't going to fly.

I also enjoy playing with older players with more experience than myself because I learn a lot from them. In many ways I don't care if I lose to say an 18 year old girl if I learn something. Many times I learn how to play differently against stronger opponents and how to tweak my game a little to try and help me through the match. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I remember one match when I was 14 and the girl I was playing was 17 and much stronger. At the end of the match I lost 6-3, 6-4. We came to the net and she told me I played a great match. I said to her I lost. She said it doesn't always have to do with Wins and Losses. I didn't know what she meant at the moment, but now I do. I learned a lot from her and that match that day.

by ponchi101 I would agree with your opponent that day. It took me a long time to get what I consider is the proper balance: if your goal out there is to WIN, you will be disappointed a lot of times. If your goal is to play as well as you can, and learn a bit more that day, your success on court will be always there.
Heck, I feel that my improvement in the last few years, in which I learned so many more little tricks, was way better than my improvement when I was in my twenties. I could not cover up mistakes by simply getting to everything, so I had to develop a better game. My FH, nowadays, is at its best ever.
It is just that I don't get to the same amount of balls as before

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:26 pm I would agree with your opponent that day. It took me a long time to get what I consider is the proper balance: if your goal out there is to WIN, you will be disappointed a lot of times. If your goal is to play as well as you can, and learn a bit more that day, your success on court will be always there.
Heck, I feel that my improvement in the last few years, in which I learned so many more little tricks, was way better than my improvement when I was in my twenties. I could not cover up mistakes by simply getting to everything, so I had to develop a better game. My FH, nowadays, is at its best ever.
It is just that I don't get to the same amount of balls as before

My grandpa told me every time that I step out on the court there should be 3 things I set out to accomplish. I should learn at least one new thing, play the best I can, and always have the most fun I can. I always keep those things in my mind when I play and it really keeps the pressure of the competition down for me.

This season my 10th grade year was my first year of tennis at my school because Covid cancelled my 9th grade year. I was awarded the Girls #1 Singles player this past season which doesn't happen very often to an underclass student. I could have had a ton of pressure on me, but my regular coach told me to just focus on my game and not worry about the results. He said if I play my game the results will come. He was correct as I went all the way to the Private School Girls QF this past season.

Getting back to the racquets though, I do feel that the Wilson Clash 108 gives me the power and control and feel that I need and would recommend it for any intermediate to advanced player.

by ponchi101 Oh, racquets are so personal. It is like a dress/suit. What fits you, will not necessarily fit somebody else.
I am very partial to Wilson. My very first racquet was a little something called the Wilson Match Point. An aluminum contraption, machine made, pre-strung. From then, on to a T-2000 (we are talking 70's here). On and on, so I am still stuck with NCodes II right now, because I really don't need to change and I like that frame (it is the same that was started with the Pro Staff's Classic). But the important thing is how you feel about it.
Also, I will say that I looked it up (your Clash 108) and it is s gorgeous frame. That also counts

by Deuce

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:56 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:26 pm I would agree with your opponent that day. It took me a long time to get what I consider is the proper balance: if your goal out there is to WIN, you will be disappointed a lot of times. If your goal is to play as well as you can, and learn a bit more that day, your success on court will be always there.
Heck, I feel that my improvement in the last few years, in which I learned so many more little tricks, was way better than my improvement when I was in my twenties. I could not cover up mistakes by simply getting to everything, so I had to develop a better game. My FH, nowadays, is at its best ever.
It is just that I don't get to the same amount of balls as before
My grandpa told me every time that I step out on the court there should be 3 things I set out to accomplish. I should learn at least one new thing, play the best I can, and always have the most fun I can. I always keep those things in my mind when I play and it really keeps the pressure of the competition down for me.

This season my 10th grade year was my first year of tennis at my school because Covid cancelled my 9th grade year. I was awarded the Girls #1 Singles player this past season which doesn't happen very often to an underclass student. I could have had a ton of pressure on me, but my regular coach told me to just focus on my game and not worry about the results. He said if I play my game the results will come. He was correct as I went all the way to the Private School Girls QF this past season.

Your grandpa sounds like a wise man.

Leylah Fernandez's father had a similar approach with her. When she was younger, he didn't care if she won or lost matches, as long as she continued to learn, and as long as she tried her best and enjoyed herself.
The approach obviously worked with Leylah.

As for racquets... I'm currently using Head Prestige Classic 600 frames, along with iPrestige Mids (same size as the 600). The iPrestige is slightly stiffer in feel. The Prestige Classic is a racquet which first appeared in the '80s... and the iPrestige came out in 2001. I haven't found anything that plays close to these two frames in anything that's been made in the past 20 years.

If you ever have the chance to hit with an old frame - be it wood, fibreglass, or one of the early graphite frames from the '70s or '80s, I encourage you to do so (except the T2000 - that would probably turn you off of tennis forever

). Most of the old frames have so much more feel than the racquets made after about the year 2000. And they're heavier, too - which I personally like, as they tend to absorb more of the shock.

Let us know if ever you try an old frame at some point.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:26 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:56 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:26 pm I would agree with your opponent that day. It took me a long time to get what I consider is the proper balance: if your goal out there is to WIN, you will be disappointed a lot of times. If your goal is to play as well as you can, and learn a bit more that day, your success on court will be always there.
Heck, I feel that my improvement in the last few years, in which I learned so many more little tricks, was way better than my improvement when I was in my twenties. I could not cover up mistakes by simply getting to everything, so I had to develop a better game. My FH, nowadays, is at its best ever.
It is just that I don't get to the same amount of balls as before
My grandpa told me every time that I step out on the court there should be 3 things I set out to accomplish. I should learn at least one new thing, play the best I can, and always have the most fun I can. I always keep those things in my mind when I play and it really keeps the pressure of the competition down for me.

This season my 10th grade year was my first year of tennis at my school because Covid cancelled my 9th grade year. I was awarded the Girls #1 Singles player this past season which doesn't happen very often to an underclass student. I could have had a ton of pressure on me, but my regular coach told me to just focus on my game and not worry about the results. He said if I play my game the results will come. He was correct as I went all the way to the Private School Girls QF this past season.
Your grandpa sounds like a wise man.

Leylah Fernandez's father had a similar approach with her. When she was younger, he didn't care if she won or lost matches, as long as she continued to learn, and as long as she tried her best and enjoyed herself.
The approach obviously worked with Leylah.

As for racquets... I'm currently using Head Prestige Classic 600 frames, along with iPrestige Mids (same size as the 600). The iPrestige is slightly stiffer in feel. The Prestige Classic is a racquet which first appeared in the '80s... and the iPrestige came out in 2001. I haven't found anything that plays close to these two frames in anything that's been made in the past 20 years.

If you ever have the chance to hit with an old frame - be it wood, fibreglass, or one of the early graphite frames from the '70s or '80s, I encourage you to do so (except the T2000 - that would probably turn you off of tennis forever ). Most of the old frames have so much more feel than the racquets made after about the year 2000. And they're heavier, too - which I personally like, as they tend to absorb more of the shock.

Let us know if ever you try an old frame at some point.

Leylah is only 3 years older than me and seems so mature on the court. That right there is amazing to me. Players like her Emma Raducanu and Coco Gauff amaze me with that. They all must have all had some great influences in their lives to be that way. I know I wouldn't be as far as I am with my game without the people that have supported me along the way and I just don't mean coaches. My family even includes my two goofy older brothers who have come to a lot of my matches. They both have gone the Lacrosse way and I have sat through their games as well. My mom is really my #1 supporter and drives me everywhere I need to go. My dad was also a great supporter of me and my game and even though he lost his life while working as a Police Officer, I know he is still looking down on me and I hope I am making him smile. My grandpa has not only helped me with supplying me with just about all the equipment I need and lessons, but he has taught me so much over the years with his stories about the game and just his love of the game. He is the one who really has shown what it means to love the game. Then of course there are my coaches that I have had since I was 5 years old and even my school coach. All amazing people who have shown me what true leadership is and how to make my game better.

I think finding a frame that feels comfortable for you sometimes is hard work in itself, especially when you are learning the game. Once you become more of an intermediate to advanced player than I think it becomes easier to find something that works with your game.

I am not sure if I would ever use an olde wood or fiberglass, or early graphite racquet in a tournament, but to mess around with I think I would get some enjoyment out of that.

by Deuce

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:10 am
Deuce wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:26 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:56 pm

My grandpa told me every time that I step out on the court there should be 3 things I set out to accomplish. I should learn at least one new thing, play the best I can, and always have the most fun I can. I always keep those things in my mind when I play and it really keeps the pressure of the competition down for me.

This season my 10th grade year was my first year of tennis at my school because Covid cancelled my 9th grade year. I was awarded the Girls #1 Singles player this past season which doesn't happen very often to an underclass student. I could have had a ton of pressure on me, but my regular coach told me to just focus on my game and not worry about the results. He said if I play my game the results will come. He was correct as I went all the way to the Private School Girls QF this past season.
Your grandpa sounds like a wise man.

Leylah Fernandez's father had a similar approach with her. When she was younger, he didn't care if she won or lost matches, as long as she continued to learn, and as long as she tried her best and enjoyed herself.
The approach obviously worked with Leylah.

As for racquets... I'm currently using Head Prestige Classic 600 frames, along with iPrestige Mids (same size as the 600). The iPrestige is slightly stiffer in feel. The Prestige Classic is a racquet which first appeared in the '80s... and the iPrestige came out in 2001. I haven't found anything that plays close to these two frames in anything that's been made in the past 20 years.

If you ever have the chance to hit with an old frame - be it wood, fibreglass, or one of the early graphite frames from the '70s or '80s, I encourage you to do so (except the T2000 - that would probably turn you off of tennis forever ). Most of the old frames have so much more feel than the racquets made after about the year 2000. And they're heavier, too - which I personally like, as they tend to absorb more of the shock.

Let us know if ever you try an old frame at some point.
Leylah is only 3 years older than me and seems so mature on the court. That right there is amazing to me. Players like her Emma Raducanu and Coco Gauff amaze me with that. They all must have all had some great influences in their lives to be that way. I know I wouldn't be as far as I am with my game without the people that have supported me along the way and I just don't mean coaches. My family even includes my two goofy older brothers who have come to a lot of my matches. They both have gone the Lacrosse way and I have sat through their games as well. My mom is really my #1 supporter and drives me everywhere I need to go. My dad was also a great supporter of me and my game and even though he lost his life while working as a Police Officer, I know he is still looking down on me and I hope I am making him smile. My grandpa has not only helped me with supplying me with just about all the equipment I need and lessons, but he has taught me so much over the years with his stories about the game and just his love of the game. He is the one who really has shown what it means to love the game. Then of course there are my coaches that I have had since I was 5 years old and even my school coach. All amazing people who have shown me what true leadership is and how to make my game better.

^ Sounds like you've got good people around you. That's incredibly important. Tennis may be a solo sport on the court... but it definitely takes a support system (financially, physically, emotionally, psychologically).

No doubt your dad is proud of you.

How old were you when your father passed away?

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:10 am I think finding a frame that feels comfortable for you sometimes is hard work in itself, especially when you are learning the game. Once you become more of an intermediate to advanced player than I think it becomes easier to find something that works with your game.

I am not sure if I would ever use an olde wood or fiberglass, or early graphite racquet in a tournament, but to mess around with I think I would get some enjoyment out of that.

^ Yes - I didn't mean that you should use those racquets in a tournament (unless you're playing some sort of 'retro' tournament

). But just if you have the opportunity to hit with one, you should - to see what they feel like compared to today's racquets.

I like taking old racquets with me to tournaments I go to watch - whether it's a pro tournament or a Junior tournament. I sometimes try to convince the players to hit with one of my oldies - and I'm sometimes even successful in convincing them.
Other times, people see me walking around with an old racquet, and they'll come and ask questions about it, or comment that they used to play with it...
A few years ago, at a Challenger tournament, I was carrying around a Head Vilas (wood) racquet (in great condition), and one of the player's coaches came up to me and said "Wow... Wow... I can't believe it... Wow... Can I hold it?" I said "Sure." He gently took the racquet in his hands and said "Oh... this brings back so many memories! I got to #18 in the world with this racquet."
But I had no idea who he was - and still don't know!

by Cuckoo4Coco I was 12 years old when he passed away so it wasn't that long ago.

Yes, I do have an awesome family.

I am pretty sure my grandpa has some old metal and maybe even some wooden racquets stored in his basement. I have no idea what type of racquet they are, but I bet he does. It would be fun just to hit some tennis balls up against a wall with one. I wonder if I would have the control I have now with the racquet I use? I highly doubt it. I also doubt I could generate the speed with one of those racquets like with the Wilson Clash 108. It would be fun just to get the feel of one. Do those old time racquets use the same sort of strings or was it all nylon or polyester strings back then?

by Deuce

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:39 am I was 12 years old when he passed away so it wasn't that long ago.

That's really too bad.
I like this quotation...
"Death may end a life, but it doesn't end a relationship."
You will carry your father with you everywhere you go for the rest of your life. You'll know what he would say in situations... what he would think... what he would do... And so the relationship continues.

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:39 am I am pretty sure my grandpa has some old metal and maybe even some wooden racquets stored in his basement. I have no idea what type of racquet they are, but I bet he does. It would be fun just to hit some tennis balls up against a wall with one. I wonder if I would have the control I have now with the racquet I use? I highly doubt it. I also doubt I could generate the speed with one of those racquets like with the Wilson Clash 108. It would be fun just to get the feel of one. Do those old time racquets use the same sort of strings or was it all nylon or polyester strings back then?

It was mostly gut and a pretty basic nylon for strings. Lots of pro players who weren't in the top 30 or so used basic nylon. Polyester only became popular in about the late '90s, I think.

Don't be afraid to use an old racquet on a court, not just against a wall - you'll get a better idea of its strengths and weaknesses as compared to your current racquet if you hit on a court.
No, the old racquets did not have nearly the power that the current racquets have. But they can help you to concentrate more on hitting the ball squarely, due to the smaller sweet spot - they're much less forgiving than the bigger racquets of today. But when you hit the sweet spot, it feels great.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:26 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:39 am I was 12 years old when he passed away so it wasn't that long ago.
That's really too bad.
I like this quotation...
"Death may end a life, but it doesn't end a relationship."
You will carry your father with you everywhere you go for the rest of your life. You'll know what he would say in situations... what he would think... what he would do... And so the relationship continues.

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:39 am I am pretty sure my grandpa has some old metal and maybe even some wooden racquets stored in his basement. I have no idea what type of racquet they are, but I bet he does. It would be fun just to hit some tennis balls up against a wall with one. I wonder if I would have the control I have now with the racquet I use? I highly doubt it. I also doubt I could generate the speed with one of those racquets like with the Wilson Clash 108. It would be fun just to get the feel of one. Do those old time racquets use the same sort of strings or was it all nylon or polyester strings back then?
It was mostly gut and a pretty basic nylon for strings. Lots of pro players who weren't in the top 30 or so used basic nylon. Polyester only became popular in about the late '90s, I think.

Don't be afraid to use an old racquet on a court, not just against a wall - you'll get a better idea of its strengths and weaknesses as compared to your current racquet if you hit on a court.
No, the old racquets did not have nearly the power that the current racquets have. But they can help you to concentrate more on hitting the ball squarely, due to the smaller sweet spot - they're much less forgiving than the bigger racquets of today. But when you hit the sweet spot, it feels great.

Thank you so much.

I will definitely ask my grandpa if he has an old racquet of some sort lying around that I can hit around with for fun. I guess I am a bit spoiled with the equipment technology of today compared to what they had to use in the past. I wonder if a player like Borg or McEnroe had this sort of equipment today if they would be just as good as like a Nadal, Djokovic or Federer? Or even on the ladies side with Chris Evert or Martina Navratilova playing against a Serena or Venus?

by Deuce

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:47 am Thank you so much.

I will definitely ask my grandpa if he has an old racquet of some sort lying around that I can hit around with for fun. I guess I am a bit spoiled with the equipment technology of today compared to what they had to use in the past. I wonder if a player like Borg or McEnroe had this sort of equipment today if they would be just as good as like a Nadal, Djokovic or Federer? Or even on the ladies side with Chris Evert or Martina Navratilova playing against a Serena or Venus?

It's nice to see a 16 year old who knows the names of players who played 20 years before she was born...

The game was played differently back then. There was less power, so players had to rely more on variety and creativity.
And there was the wonderful contrast between the baseliners and the serve & volley players. Because of that contrast of styles, it was so much fun to watch Evert vs. Navratilova, and Borg or Lendl vs. McEnroe...

I put this up in another thread a few days ago... Here, you can see tennis from the '80s - and compare it to today's tennis...

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:00 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:47 am Thank you so much.

I will definitely ask my grandpa if he has an old racquet of some sort lying around that I can hit around with for fun. I guess I am a bit spoiled with the equipment technology of today compared to what they had to use in the past. I wonder if a player like Borg or McEnroe had this sort of equipment today if they would be just as good as like a Nadal, Djokovic or Federer? Or even on the ladies side with Chris Evert or Martina Navratilova playing against a Serena or Venus?
It's nice to see a 16 year old who knows the names of players who played 20 years before she was born...

The game was played differently back then. There was less power, so players had to rely more on variety and creativity.
And there was the wonderful contrast between the baseliners and the serve & volley players. Because of that contrast of styles, it was so much fun to watch Evert vs. Navratilova, and Borg or Lendl vs. McEnroe...

I put this up in another thread a few days ago... Here, you can see tennis from the '80s - and compare it to today's tennis...

Thanx, yep I know of some of the big name tennis players from the past like John McEnroe as he does the commentating of matches today and Navratilova is also one Tennis Live and Chris Evert well she is a legend and I have also seen her commentate some matches. Bjorn Borg is the only player I have never really seen other than videos of him playing John McEnroe.

Thanks for the video I will definitely watch it.

by ponchi101

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:47 am ...

I will definitely ask my grandpa if he has an old racquet of some sort lying around that I can hit around with for fun. I guess I am a bit spoiled with the equipment technology of today compared to what they had to use in the past. I wonder if a player like Borg or McEnroe had this sort of equipment today if they would be just as good as like a Nadal, Djokovic or Federer? Or even on the ladies side with Chris Evert or Martina Navratilova playing against a Serena or Venus?

They would have been as good, and maybe even more. You could see it with the players that were there for the transitions. Mac went from his Dunlop Maxply (wood) to his Dunlop 200G and remained dominant. Martina, especially, went from her Yonex woods to her R-22, becoming the dominant player of her time.
The thing about hitting with an old racquet is that they really force you to focus on your form. One example: Berrettini's slap forehand. That shot, which is a great shot, would be impossible with a wood racquet. You would break something in your arm/wrist. So, especially with wood, you need to have very good form. Our new racquets allow us to have some ticks that in the past meant a lost point.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:31 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:47 am ...

I will definitely ask my grandpa if he has an old racquet of some sort lying around that I can hit around with for fun. I guess I am a bit spoiled with the equipment technology of today compared to what they had to use in the past. I wonder if a player like Borg or McEnroe had this sort of equipment today if they would be just as good as like a Nadal, Djokovic or Federer? Or even on the ladies side with Chris Evert or Martina Navratilova playing against a Serena or Venus?
They would have been as good, and maybe even more. You could see it with the players that were there for the transitions. Mac went from his Dunlop Maxply (wood) to his Dunlop 200G and remained dominant. Martina, especially, went from her Yonex woods to her R-22, becoming the dominant player of her time.
The thing about hitting with an old racquet is that they really force you to focus on your form. One example: Berrettini's slap forehand. That shot, which is a great shot, would be impossible with a wood racquet. You would break something in your arm/wrist. So, especially with wood, you need to have very good form. Our new racquets allow us to have some ticks that in the past meant a lost point.

I watched a show that talked about Martina and her dominance of the game until Steffi Graf came on and matched her power or really had more power in her game and at the time was much younger than Martina.

I have also seen some videos of John McEnroe's matches and even though he was considered a serve and volley player he was not really the typical power serve and volley player that we see a lot of today. He was really a finesse player and a really good one at that. I guess you had to have a lot more of that back in the day with those type of racquets than what we see today and a lot of the players look more like machines that just use all power to get through matches. John McEnroe was not that big guy.

by ponchi101 Changing subjects. Mertens has moved over to Technifibre, joining (at least as far as I know) Iga and Medvedev (Chardy and Millman too). I obviously have not played with that racquet, but it does look very pretty. Who knows if TF will become the Babolat of the 2020's.

by Cuckoo4Coco The TF Tempo 298. The frame that Iga uses is sweet looking. I think Elise Mertens is now using the same model as Iga. Iga and her TF Tempo 298 sure have made a great pair so we will see if it does the same for Elise.

by Deuce

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:42 pm The TF Tempo 298. The frame that Iga uses is sweet looking. I think Elise Mertens is now using the same model as Iga. Iga and her TF Tempo 298 sure have made a great pair so we will see if it does the same for Elise.

Most of the pro players are not using the racquet that it looks like they're using - they're using an older model that is painted to look like whatever current frame the racquet company wants to market today.

Andy Murray, for example, has used a racquet that was designed in 1994 for his entire pro career - the Head PT57A, which is a Head Pro Tour 280/630. Partially designed by Thomas Muster. Head just paints Murray's PT57A to look like the current Radical racquet they're trying to sell.
Yes, it's pure dishonest deception - and most of the pro players are doing the same thing (with different older racquets, usually not as old as the PT57A)...

Read about the Head PT57A here...
The Magic of the PT57A

You can also take a look at these videos, which reveal the real racquets some pros are using underneath the ever-changing paint jobs...

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:41 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:42 pm The TF Tempo 298. The frame that Iga uses is sweet looking. I think Elise Mertens is now using the same model as Iga. Iga and her TF Tempo 298 sure have made a great pair so we will see if it does the same for Elise.
Most of the pro players are not using the racquet that it looks like they're using - they're using an older model that is painted to look like whatever current frame the racquet company wants to market today.

Andy Murray, for example, has used a racquet that was designed in 1994 for his entire pro career - the Head PT57A, which is a Head Pro Tour 280/630. Partially designed by Thomas Muster. Head just paints Murray's PT57A to look like the current Radical racquet they're trying to sell.
Yes, it's pure dishonest deception - and most of the pro players are doing the same thing (with different older racquets, usually not as old as the PT57A)...

Read about the Head PT57A here...
The Magic of the PT57A

You can also take a look at these videos, which reveal the real racquets some pros are using underneath the ever-changing paint jobs...

Wow, I did not know that. That is really sneaky. I guess a player gets really use to a certain racquet but a company that sponsors them wants to make their money so they have to do what they have to do.

by Canucklehead I am what you would call an intermediate type of player who plays mainly to remain fit and for the exercise. I also like to get out on the courts for the enjoyment of it and just hit it around. I use a Dunlop CX 200 Racket.

by AcesAnnie

Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:41 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:42 pm The TF Tempo 298. The frame that Iga uses is sweet looking. I think Elise Mertens is now using the same model as Iga. Iga and her TF Tempo 298 sure have made a great pair so we will see if it does the same for Elise.
Most of the pro players are not using the racquet that it looks like they're using - they're using an older model that is painted to look like whatever current frame the racquet company wants to market today.

Andy Murray, for example, has used a racquet that was designed in 1994 for his entire pro career - the Head PT57A, which is a Head Pro Tour 280/630. Partially designed by Thomas Muster. Head just paints Murray's PT57A to look like the current Radical racquet they're trying to sell.
Yes, it's pure dishonest deception - and most of the pro players are doing the same thing (with different older racquets, usually not as old as the PT57A)...

Read about the Head PT57A here...
The Magic of the PT57A

You can also take a look at these videos, which reveal the real racquets some pros are using underneath the ever-changing paint jobs...

In the words of John McEnroe, "You Cannot Be Serious!?" Basically, they're painting older model rackets that players find more successful, but are out of style or market and make them look like the new flashy models that are more expensive so the fans can put out the money? I have to say it is a sneaky Marketing method that I wonder how much the player gets in the cut for allowing them to have their old rackets painted?

by Deuce

AcesAnnie wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:00 pm
In the words of John McEnroe, "You Cannot Be Serious!?" Basically, they're painting older model rackets that players find more successful, but are out of style or market and make them look like the new flashy models that are more expensive so the fans can put out the money? I have to say it is a sneaky Marketing method that I wonder how much the player gets in the cut for allowing them to have their old rackets painted?

It's all part of the sponsorship contract.
Yes, it is deliberate deception.
Yes, it is manipulative marketing.
I would definitely not do it myself (I still play with racquets from the early 1990s, because that's what feels best for me).

Back in the day, players played with the same racquet for years - sometimes for their entire career. Because models did not change often.
But since the '80s and '90s, racquet models change every 2 or 3 years - and the racquet companies claim that the players are changing to the 'latest, greatest' model every time a new model comes out.

If the marketing were even 10% true - that each model offers "more power and control" than the previous model, we'd all be able to hit a dime on the other side of the court at will, and be able to hit the ball through the fence!

by AcesAnnie

Deuce wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:11 pm
AcesAnnie wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:00 pm
In the words of John McEnroe, "You Cannot Be Serious!?" Basically, they're painting older model rackets that players find more successful, but are out of style or market and make them look like the new flashy models that are more expensive so the fans can put out the money? I have to say it is a sneaky Marketing method that I wonder how much the player gets in the cut for allowing them to have their old rackets painted?
It's all part of the sponsorship contract.
Yes, it is deliberate deception.
Yes, it is manipulative marketing.
I would definitely not do it myself (I still play with racquets from the early 1990s, because that's what feels best for me).

Back in the day, players played with the same racquet for years - sometimes for their entire career. Because models did not change often.
But since the '80s and '90s, racquet models change every 2 or 3 years - and the racquet companies claim that the players are changing to the 'latest, greatest' model every time a new model comes out.

If the marketing were even 10% true - that each model offers "more power and control" than the previous model, we'd all be able to hit a dime on the other side of the court at will, and be able to hit the ball through the fence!

I can understand the sponsors wanting their newest products on display, even though the rackets really aren't the actual products. They have to make money too.

Back in the day, even in the day of the wooden rackets, were they considered more durable and to last longer or was it just because they didn't make as many rackets?

by ponchi101 They didn't make as many racquets or models. The largest manufacturer, Wilson, maybe made 10 models, including some generics that were meant for very, very recreational players. A smaller manufacturer like Dunlop would make only one, the Maxply in the 60's-70's (and never changed it).
Spading made three models of Pancho Gonzalez, Donnay made the Borg Pro in two or three different models too. That was it.

by AcesAnnie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:34 pm They didn't make as many racquets or models. The largest manufacturer, Wilson, maybe made 10 models, including some generics that were meant for very, very recreational players. A smaller manufacturer like Dunlop would make only one, the Maxply in the 60's-70's (and never changed it).
Spading made three models of Pancho Gonzalez, Donnay made the Borg Pro in two or three different models too. That was it.

It is crazy how much money is generated by these rackets, shoes, clothing, visors/hats, sweatbands/headbands, bags. Every player is a walking sponsorship. The better the player, the more stuff that sells.

by ponchi101 Uhm, not always. When Martina Hingis was leaving Sergio Tachinni, she ended up with Adidas. But Adidas also had Anna Kournikova. Hingis, reportedly, was livid that Kournikova's contract was way better than hers. Again, reportedly Hingis told Adidas "I am world #1 Martina Hingis" and, in what is obviously apocryphal, Adidas replied "yes, but you are not Anna Kournikova".
And Agassi's contracts were better than Pete's, regardless of who was the better player.

by AcesAnnie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:08 pm Uhm, not always. When Martina Hingis was leaving Sergio Tachinni, she ended up with Adidas. But Adidas also had Anna Kournikova. Hingis, reportedly, was livid that Kournikova's contract was way better than hers. Again, reportedly Hingis told Adidas "I am world #1 Martina Hingis" and, in what is obviously apocryphal, Adidas replied "yes, but you are not Anna Kournikova".
And Agassi's contracts were better than Pete's, regardless of who was the better player.

Well, I guess sometimes sex appeal sells more.

by LilMissBubbles {color=#FFFFFF].[/color}

by Ainsley Racquet: Wilson Clash 100
Strings: Wilson NXT 17/1.24 mm

by Scoob When I first started playing the game of tennis, I used a Donnay Wooden Pro Racquet. Then as I got older I switched to the Prince Pro Racquet. I finally for Christmas one year in the 80's got the Prince Boron Racquet which I have had and used since the mid 80's. I am actually thinking of finally retiring that Racquet, but still sticking with the Prince brand of Racquets and purchasing the Prince Textreme Tour 100.

by ponchi101 Just noticed that several players have switched from the Wilson Blade (recognizable by the polarized green color) to the new Pro Staff v14 (in a gorgeous golden polarized). But they are rather different racquets, so the switch is not trivial.
I gather that with Roger no longer playing, they have to find new players to push the PS. At $279, a top of the line product. Wonder how it plays (will never be able to afford it).

by Deuce ^ As I've said many times, it's a very safe bet that the racquet has not changed - only the paint job has changed.
Pro players notice all differences in feel - even small ones - and once they get accustomed to a feel they like, they're not going to be switching to a racquet with a different feel and different characteristics very often.

This is all about marketing and racquet companies trying to sell their new models to the public through the dishonest deception of pretending that the pro players are changing racquets every 2 years because the new racquets are 'better'.

by ponchi101 Noticing more players using Technofibre's racquets. Today I saw that Bublik is using them, and Grenier too.
I know, nothing to write home about, but these racquets were virtually unknown a couple of years ago. Maybe a story like Babolat (which only made strings 25 years ago).

by ti-amie I posted this in another thread because I couldn't find this one. The last time I tried to move something it did not go well so I'm reposting it here.

Thanks Ponchi!

by ponchi101 And I posted that the days of players like Borg (80 lbs), Pete (80 lbs) and Lendl (72.5) are long gone.
People talk a lot about the balls and racquets. We do not talk about how much the strings have changed the game. For us oldies, stringing a racquet with cat-gut (really, sheep gut) at such low tensions was a recipe for disaster. Now, you can string this low and get the control you need.

by ashkor87 I got technifibre strings after hearing Medvedev praise them ..they are really good, in fact.

by ponchi101 He is signed with TF, so of course he praises them.
They were excellent in the past; I played with them for a while and were great, so I don't think that they would have gone down on quality.
And the racquet must be good, because both him, Iga and a few others are playing with it.

by tennisking24 Tennis racquets are fascinating pieces of equipment, evolving over time to optimize player performance. I'm curious about the ongoing advancements in materials and design, such as carbon fiber frames and varying string patterns, and how they affect play style. Are traditional wooden racquets making a comeback among purists? How do manufacturers balance power, control, and maneuverability in their designs? Furthermore, with the rise of customization options, how do players navigate the multitude of choices to find the perfect racquet for their game? This depends on the skill level and age group of the players to explore more about this topic do check out this page: tennislocation.com/skill-specific-tennis-rackets

ADMIN EDIT:
Link removed due to violation of forum policies (no links in first five posts)

by ponchi101 I forgot this.
I recently was in Houston, and dropped by Tennis Express, a huge tennis store in the city. They have a court and you can demo racquets, so I asked if I could demo the Wilson Pro Staff six.one V14. Wanted to see how much the technology has advanced, since one of my favorite racquets of all time was the original Pro Staff 6.0 Original (85 sq.in.)
To put it mildly: It is just like cars. The cars of the 80's were great; they simply cannot compete with the news ones. The V14 immediately delivers much more power and it is perfectly balanced. I had not played in months and I was still able to rope a couple of well placed BH's, with enough control (no power, because my arm had not swung a racquet in so long). I tried a few volleys and it is a sharp racquet. It felt a bit rough but that's because I play with a vibration dampener and this one did not have it, so maybe that slight correction would work for me (if you don't use a VD, this would feel great).
To say that the racquet is beautiful is an understatement. Wilson really did a great job there.
On the expensive side, of course. But I have not changed racquets in over a decade by now, and my nCodes are showing their age. I can't afford new racquets at the moment but if I could, I would buy this one. It is a very solid racquet.

by ashkor87 Thanks for this tip..will look into it.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 3:33 pm I forgot this.
I recently was in Houston, and dropped by Tennis Express, a huge tennis store in the city. They have a court and you can demo racquets, so I asked if I could demo the Wilson Pro Staff six.one V14. Wanted to see how much the technology has advanced, since one of my favorite racquets of all time was the original Pro Staff 6.0 Original (85 sq.in.)
To put it mildly: It is just like cars. The cars of the 80's were great; they simply cannot compete with the news ones. The V14 immediately delivers much more power and it is perfectly balanced. I had not played in months and I was still able to rope a couple of well placed BH's, with enough control (no power, because my arm had not swung a racquet in so long). I tried a few volleys and it is a sharp racquet. It felt a bit rough but that's because I play with a vibration dampener and this one did not have it, so maybe that slight correction would work for me (if you don't use a VD, this would feel great).
To say that the racquet is beautiful is an understatement. Wilson really did a great job there.
On the expensive side, of course. But I have not changed racquets in over a decade by now, and my nCodes are showing their age. I can't afford new racquets at the moment but if I could, I would buy this one. It is a very solid racquet.

Great tip! Saw your post,bought the racket in London because I trust your judgment, played with it today for the first time. It is a great racket, powerful, feels light though it is 315 gm, the swing weight and balance took 4 games to get used to, then it started feeling great .

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:22 am ...

Great tip! Saw your post,bought the racket in London because I trust your judgment, played with it today for the first time. It is a great racket, powerful, feels light though it is 315 gm, the swing weight and balance took 4 games to get used to, then it started feeling great .

Glad to hear that you bought it, and green with envy that you got it

I really wanted to buy it too but right now I can't.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:03 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:22 am ...

Great tip! Saw your post,bought the racket in London because I trust your judgment, played with it today for the first time. It is a great racket, powerful, feels light though it is 315 gm, the swing weight and balance took 4 games to get used to, then it started feeling great .
Glad to hear that you bought it, and green with envy that you got it
I really wanted to buy it too but right now I can't.

Checked, it is 331 gm, not 315..a bit heavier than normal

by ponchi101 Just noticed something.
Three of the four women's semi finalist are playing with the same racquet. The Yonex Vcore. Add to that that Navarro also plays with it, and Yonex seems to be the top racquet for women, on grass.
At least this year.

by ashkor87 And hardly any Wilson any more

by ashkor87 Jabeur uses this version 14 racket I see...my game is nothing like her's but nice to see!

by ponchi101 I think Sabalenka does too.

by ashkor87 No, wilson blade apparently

by ashkor87 a month on, am getting more comfortble with the V14 now.. it is so powerful that reflex volleys go for winners even without any force behind them.. very good for my serve, not so great for backhand, but that will take some more time.All in all, happy with it!

by ponchi101 I envy you. My nCodes are in dire need for replacement, and the v14 would be it. Can't afford it right now, but as you say, it felt like a really good racquet when I demo'd it.

by ashkor87 https://www.wtatennis.com/news/4098673/ ... k-her-game
Nice story on Madison Keys' equipment change..had no idea it can make so much difference .frankly didn't even know what my string pattern was .

by ponchi101 Nice article but:
When did Maddie unlock her game? She is still playing at about the same level. Her ranking does not fluctuate much.
And she is, to me, still an underachiever.
Would like to try her racquet, though. Compare the BLADE with the PRO STAFF.

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