by ti-amie Draw - Singles
Group Stage
Purple
A. Sabalenka
J. Paolini
E. Rybakina
Q. Zheng
W - L
BLR A. Sabalenka (1)
- - - 0 - 0
ITA J. Paolini (4)
- - - 0 - 0
KAZ E. Rybakina (5)
- - - 0 - 0
CHN Q. Zheng (7)
- - - 0 - 0
Orange
I. Swiatek
C. Gauff
J. Pegula
B. Krejcikova
W - L
POL I. Swiatek (2)
- - - 0 - 0
USA C. Gauff (3)
- - - 0 - 0
USA J. Pegula (6)
- - - 0 - 0
CZE B. Krejcikova (8)
- - - 0 - 0
by ti-amie Doubles
Green
L. Kichenok/J. Ostapenko
S. Hsieh/E. Mertens
N. Melichar-Martinez/E. Perez
K. Siniakova/T. Townsend
W - L
UKR L. Kichenok/LAT J. Ostapenko (1)
- - - 0 - 0
TPE S. Hsieh/BEL E. Mertens (3)
- - - 0 - 0
USA N. Melichar-Martinez/AUS E. Perez (6)
- - - 0 - 0
CZE K. Siniakova/USA T. Townsend (8)
- - - 0 - 0
White
G. Dabrowski/E. Routliffe
S. Errani/J. Paolini
C. Dolehide/D. Krawczyk
H. Chan/V. Kudermetova
W - L
CAN G. Dabrowski/NZL E. Routliffe (2)
- - - 0 - 0
ITA S. Errani/ITA J. Paolini (4)
- - - 0 - 0
USA C. Dolehide/USA D. Krawczyk (5)
- - - 0 - 0
TPE H. Chan/RUS V. Kudermetova
- - - 0 - 0
by
ti-amie TBH I'm not going to look hard for an OoP for this.
BTW the WTA ran a poll on its site that asked the following:
Found a screen shot.
Clarification on the questions. Idjut.
Here are the four questions. I wanted a screen shot because otherwise the poll's existence is just hearsay.
How would you best describe the WTA Finals coming to Saudi Arabia for the first time?
- A historic milestone for women’s sports
- A thrilling opportunity to expand the game
- A unique chance to connect with new fans
- A landmark moment for tennis diversity
by JTContinental I’m just happy they have stopped naming the groups with increasingly bizarre flower varieties
by
Owendonovan 
by
ponchi101 JTContinental wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:31 am
I’m just happy they have stopped naming the groups with increasingly bizarre flower varieties
There are not enough tennis greats to name the groups? You know, group BJK 1 and group BJK 2?
by
Owendonovan ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:22 am
JTContinental wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:31 am
I’m just happy they have stopped naming the groups with increasingly bizarre flower varieties
There are not enough tennis greats to name the groups? You know, group BJK 1 and group BJK 2?
Not on the women's side. I vaguely recall a couple women back in the 70's and 80's played each other a lot, forgot their names though. Then there was that German woman with a terrible father, whats her name? I think, though not positive, there were a couple of sisters who were black who snuck into the tour for a couple years in the late 90's. I guess they're hard to remember because they didn't quite reach the levels of male players like Starace, Zeballo, Patience, and Tomic.
by JTContinental X is a-twitter with photos of Rybakina practicing with Sabalenka and training, so she’s clearly giving it a try.
by ponchi101 It will be good for her. She will not win, but get an indication of how your injuries are healing.
by
mmmm8 ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:36 am
TBH I'm not going to look hard for an OoP for this.
BTW the WTA ran a poll on its site that asked the following:
Here are the four questions. I wanted a screen shot because otherwise the poll's existence is just hearsay.
How would you best describe the WTA Finals coming to Saudi Arabia for the first time?
- A historic milestone for women’s sports
- A thrilling opportunity to expand the game
- A unique chance to connect with new fans
- A landmark moment for tennis diversity
So they're crowd-sourcing how to spin this?
by Fastbackss I bet the organisers are like "damnit Jasmine, making it way more complicated for us by qualifying in both"
(And yes I know this happens virtually every year)
by
meganfernandez ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 3:23 pm
This might be the best photo ever... everyone nailed it. Not a flop in the bunch. No short dresses, though. Was that a directive?
by ponchi101 Yes, the second shot is better. They are so much more relaxed.
Qinwen has the potential to be a fashion icon. if she is not already.
by ashkor87 Players like Paolini and, to a lesser extent, Pegula..will never cease to amaze me..for 10 years, they did nothing- as they got closer to 30, they suddenly blossom into topnotch players...wonder what it is about?!
by mmmm8
I really respect Coco.
by ti-amie A different view
by ti-amie The doubles players
by
ponchi101 meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 3:37 pm
...
This might be the best photo ever... everyone nailed it. Not a flop in the bunch.
No short dresses, though. Was that a directive?
I did not realize how your comment went until I remembered it is Riyadh.
Yes. The dresses must be at the limit of what S. Arabia will accept for foreign women.
by
ti-amie ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 1:27 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 3:37 pm
...
This might be the best photo ever... everyone nailed it. Not a flop in the bunch.
No short dresses, though. Was that a directive?
I did not realize how your comment went until I remembered it is Riyadh.
Yes. The dresses must be at the limit of what S. Arabia will accept for foreign women.
I was surprised that shoulders were allowed to be bare.
by
JTContinental ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 5:37 pm
Players like Paolini and, to a lesser extent, Pegula..will never cease to amaze me..for 10 years, they did nothing- as they got closer to 30, they suddenly blossom into topnotch players...wonder what it is about?!
Not sure about Paolini, but Pegula had a very injury-plagued early career
by ti-amie Day 2 Order of Play
Center Court
Starts at 5:00 AM
CAN G. Dabrowski/NZL E. Routliffe (2) vs TPE H. Chan/RUS V. Kudermetova (7)
Followed By
POL I. Swiatek (2) vs CZE B. Krejcikova (8)
Followed By
USA C. Gauff (3) vs USA J. Pegula (6)
Followed By
ITA S. Errani/ITA J. Paolini (4) vs USA C. Dolehide/USA D. Krawczyk (5)
by
Owendonovan ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 1:29 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 1:27 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 3:37 pm
...
This might be the best photo ever... everyone nailed it. Not a flop in the bunch.
No short dresses, though. Was that a directive?
I did not realize how your comment went until I remembered it is Riyadh.
Yes. The dresses must be at the limit of what S. Arabia will accept for foreign women.
I was surprised that shoulders were allowed to be bare.
Some Saudi women somewhere will pay for it somehow.
by ti-amie Monday Order of Play
Center Court
Starts at 5:00 AM
CAN G. Dabrowski/NZL E. Routliffe (2) vs ITA S. Errani/ITA J. Paolini (4)
Followed By
USA J. Pegula (6) vs CZE B. Krejcikova (8)
Followed By
POL I. Swiatek (2) vs USA C. Gauff (3)
Followed By
USA C. Dolehide/USA D. Krawczyk (5) vs TPE H. Chan/RUS V. Kudermetova (7)
by
ti-amie Tim Henman hits out as embarrassing crowd of 400 watch women’s finals in Saudi Arabia
simon briggs
Sun, Nov 3, 2024, 8:56 PM GMT·5 min read
Tim Henman has become the latest tennis legend to question the staging of the WTA Finals in Saudi Arabia, although his concerns focused less on sportswashing than the absence of spectators in the stands.
Henman – the former British No 1 who now commentates for Sky Sports – was among the frustrated observers as the second day of the WTA Finals drew an embarrassingly tiny crowd of around 400 spectators, reopening the debate about the decision to bring elite tennis to Riyadh.
Until now, the conversation has mainly revolved around the moral arguments for and against this ground-breaking event. The 1980s giants Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova declined to attend after calling the choice of Saudi Arabia “a significant step backwards, to the detriment of the WTA, women’s sports and women”.
But the eight players who qualified have presented a united front. They insist that the tournament will be a force for good, arguing that the presence of so many independent female athletes can inspire local women in a country that ranks 126th out of 146 on the Global Gender Gap Index.
For such lofty aspirations to be realised, however, there need to be people – preferably women – in the stands to watch.
On Sunday, the 5,000-seat stadium was less than 10 per cent full, despite the cheapest tickets costing no more than 30 Riyals (£6). The shortfall raised a different sort of question: can Saudi Arabia justify hosting a tournament of this scale for the full three-year contract if there is no interest among locals?
Also, could there potentially be a structural issue with women’s sport in Saudi Arabia? When Riyadh hosted the Six King’s Slam exhibition event at a nearby venue three weeks ago, the 8,000 seats were largely full for matches involving Rafael Nadal, Novak Djokovic and Jannik Sinner. It seems plausible that, just as female citizens of the Kingdom are legally dependent on their male guardians, women’s sports are also considered to be second class.
“There’s been plenty of debate over whether sporting events should be coming to Saudi Arabia,” said Henman, “but if we move past that and just look at this WTA Finals as an event, it’s extremely disappointing when you’ve got the world’s best players – Iga Swiatek, Coco Gauff – performing in front of a crowd like that today.
“The organisers here are in a privileged position where they’re not trying to necessarily make money out of the gate receipts. So they should get out into the communities and into the schools, because we need spectators here to witness the best players and create that atmosphere.”
After the first match of the day, in which Swiatek beat Barbora Krejcikova in three sets, Krejcikova told reporters that “There weren’t that many fans but they made nice atmosphere.”
Later, Coco Gauff handed a 6-3, 6-2 beatdown to her friend, compatriot and sometime doubles partner Jessica Pegula. Gauff then explained that: “Anytime there’s something new in a region, I don’t expect the crowd to be full. It’s just part of growing the game. Look at the WNBA [women’s basketball league]. Those stands probably weren’t as full a few years back, and now they’re full for all the teams. So I think it’s just growing pains.”
Pegula was also sanguine as she said: “We’ve played many matches where there’s not many people. We’ve played all through Covid where there was nobody.”
But Sky Sports commentator Jonathan Overend pointed out on air that there are numerous countries in the world where the likes of Swiatek – a three-time major champion and former world No1 – would draw a significant crowd without any need for educating the local population in the attractions of the game.
In a statement, the WTA made the same point as Gauff, saying “We’re bringing tennis to a new audience and that takes time to build.” It also emphasised the “strong attendance at the opening day” and added that “We always anticipated lower attendance with the start of the Saudi working week on Sunday but anticipate that numbers will build as we approach the weekend.”
The atmosphere had certainly been lively during Saturday’s opening singles match between Qinwen Zheng and Aryna Sabalenka, which the Belorussian won 6-3, 6-4 to extend her 100 per cent record against the Olympic champion.
‘The crowd was almost non-existent’
The stands were at least 70 per cent full for that match, with a Chinese majority that left Qinwen feeling like she was playing at home. However, numbers fell for Saturday’s evening match between Jasmine Paolini and Elena Rybakina, while the doubles barely registered.
On Sunday, organisers were quick to mention that students are busy with exams in Riyadh – a disadvantage for an event staged at King Saud University’s indoor arena. It is expected, however, that the next four days will also see small crowds until numbers pick up again on Friday.
The previous two editions of WTA Finals, held in Texas two years ago and Cancun last year, both also suffered from poor attendances. But there was more of an excuse in those cases.
“Texas and Cancun were both arranged at the last minute,” said Henman, “whereas the announcement of Riyadh came back in April.
“I think the organisers have got to look at the lack of fans. The way that they’ve built the facility and looked after the players has been really impressive. But the allocation of tickets – I don’t think you can even call it a ticket sale, when this isn’t really a commercial operation – needs to be taken more seriously. Today, the crowd was almost non-existent.”
https://sports.yahoo.com/tim-henman-hit ... 00871.html
by ponchi101 I want the best for the WTA. And I think that the product that they are offering is excellent.
But I do hope these finals are a failure. This was too extreme. I know what Coco said, and she was very eloquent, but the reality is that the sort of social changes needed in S. Arabia are not going to be brought by women playing tennis there.
Social changes do not come around because you parade a different version in front of people. It is not as if women in S. Arabia are subjugated because they don't know that women in other countries enjoy real participation in society.
So, if this fails, fine with me. And I hope that 6 shams parade by the men will also be joke, one of these days.
by mmmm8 When I went to the Casablanca tournament in 2009, they also had a crowd issue on weekdays during the earlier sessions. So, what they did was bus in high school and college students for free to fill in the seats, give them a half-day of a fieldtrip. You'd think they'd think to do something like this in Riyadh to not embarass themselves.
by Suliso Six slams exo is much more likely to sucees. Saudi men like sports just as much as men elsewhere.
by ponchi101 Other than the obvious social aspects of that exo, do you think they made up for the investment?
by Suliso Doubt it, but they probably don't care.
by Fastbackss With their loss today the #1 doubles seed (Kichenok and Ostapenko) cannot advance
by ptmcmahon Sabalenka beats Paolini and wins the group.
Zheng beats Rybakina and sets up Paolini-Zheng for the second spot from group.
Rybakina is out.
by ti-amie Tuesday Order of Play
Center Court
Starts at 5:00 AM
CAN G. Dabrowski/NZL E. Routliffe (2) vs ITA S. Errani/ITA J. Paolini (4)
Followed By
USA J. Pegula (6) vs CZE B. Krejcikova (8)
Followed By
POL I. Swiatek (2) vs USA C. Gauff (3)
Followed By
USA C. Dolehide/USA D. Krawczyk (5) vs TPE H. Chan/RUS V. Kudermetova (7)
by ti-amie Wednesday Order of Play
Center Court
Starts at 5:00 AM
UKR L. Kichenok/LAT J. Ostapenko (1) vs USA N. Melichar-Martinez/AUS E. Perez (6)
Followed By
ITA J. Paolini (4) vs CHN Q. Zheng (7)
Followed By
BLR A. Sabalenka (1) vs KAZ E. Rybakina (5)
Followed By
TPE S. Hsieh/BEL E. Mertens (3) vs CZE K. Siniakova/USA T. Townsend (8)
by
ponchi101 Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 7:02 pm
Doubt it, but they probably don't care.
Oh, they certainly don't. As I said, this was for their political motives, nothing else.
by ti-amie The PR around this event is horrific. The venue is small to begin with - there are pictures floating around - and still the "crowds" are non existent. They're bigger when Qinwen is playing because apparently there are a lot of Chinese nationals in the country/area and they come out to see her play. In a country where women are not allowed to leave their homes without the consent of and accompanied by a male relative how did anyone think women would en masse rise up against their families to attend a tennis match with "scantily clad" women competing in an athletic event?
It was a pure and simple money grab by Steve Simon et al and in the end the women are playing to empty seats. It's disrespectful to them.
by
Suliso ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 9:46 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 7:02 pm
Doubt it, but they probably don't care.
Oh, they certainly don't. As I said, this was for their political motives, nothing else.
Indeed. With success I meant only that the seats will be full and TV rights sold.
by
ponchi101
Is Ben complaining about the YEC being held at MSG for 23 years, or applauding that?
I believe: BOTH tours screwed up by leaving MSG, and calling it anything other than THE MASTERS. It was so easy to promote:
THE MASTERS @ MSG.
Even good for the women.
by ashkor87 Yes but why aren't the Saudi MEN lining up to watch the said 'scantily dressed women'?
by
ponchi101 ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 12:28 pm
Yes but why aren't the Saudi MEN lining up to watch the said 'scantily dressed women'?
Because men in the Arab states see women as inferior. And therefore, everything they do is also inferior.
It is not a government imposed, TOP DOWN policy. It is a BOTTOMS UP mentality.
by Suliso Besides there are plenty of other places one can see scantily dressed women if desired.
by ashkor87 Frankly many of my friends here in India say the same thing ..I find it disgusting and tell them so ..
by
mmmm8 ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 12:23 pm
Is Ben complaining about the YEC being held at MSG for 23 years, or applauding that?
I believe: BOTH tours screwed up by leaving MSG, and calling it anything other than THE MASTERS. It was so easy to promote:
THE MASTERS @ MSG.
Even good for the women.
He's pointing out how far the WTA has fallen.
by ponchi101 Ok. I was not sure what his point was.
by
Fastbackss ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 3:57 pm
Ok. I was not sure what his point was.
The MSG portion of his thread wasn't supposed to show; I meant only the Awe part - but couldn't get to display only that
by ponchi101 Coco takes down Iga, and quite easily.
I guess this is a good reminder of how quickly this sport turns. Right after the USO, people were worried that her game was toast. The DF's were too much, she seemed lost.
She has to be a favorite to end the group stage first, avoiding Sabalenka in the SF's. So she may be doing really well right now.
by
mick1303 ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 5:30 pm
Coco takes down Iga, and quite easily.
I guess this is a good reminder of how quickly this sport turns. Right after the USO, people were worried that her game was toast. The DF's were too much, she seemed lost.
She has to be a favorite to end the group stage first, avoiding Sabalenka in the SF's. So she may be doing really well right now.
And this means that Sabalenka secured Year-End #1
by Suliso Iga hasn't played for a long time. There must be some internal issues we don't know about.
by ponchi101 Has she lost some intensity? She needs that and today, at least in the highlights, she missed a few BH's that were routine. The MP against was a routine BH that she missed by a lot.
Then again. You know that I am firmly in the camp that staying away from the sport, for any length of extended time, is really bad. This sport is so demanding on its levels of precision that being just a bit off will mean defeat at this level. And, as you say, she has been away for a while.
by ptmcmahon I believe Gauff is through with her +4 sets now. Similarly Pegula is out at -4 sets.
If Switaek and Krejcikova win up tied (with one of the other two at 2-1 or 1-2) Krejcikova will get it since she is is +1, and Swiatek -1. In other words, Swiatek needs to win and need Krejcikova to lose as well.
by JTContinental Correct--Sabalenka and Gauff have already clinched the wins in their groups
by
ptmcmahon JTContinental wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 8:23 pm
Correct--Sabalenka and Gauff have already clinched the wins in their groups
Gauff hasn't clinched first yet, just a semifinal spot. If she loses to Krejicokva 2-0, or in 3 sets + Pegula wins other match, Krejcikova wins the group.
by JTContinental Yes, I found out shortly after I posted that I misspoke, but was too lazy to correct it.
That scenario above seem extremely inplausible, but I'm a known Krejcikova skeptic
by ptmcmahon Unless Gauff takes it easy in next match since she’s already through. Although probably would want to avoid Sabalenka in semis
by skatingfan I didn't realize the WTA had gotten rid of the WTA Elite Trophy this year.
by ashkor87 Good thing too
by ptmcmahon Zheng beats Poalini 6-1 6-1 to get second in group A.
by jazzyg Gauff is going to lose to whomever she faces in the semifinals, and that's not a commentary on her.
Sabalenka and Zheng are far and away the the No. 1 and No. 2 players in the world on form right now.
by ti-amie Thursday November 7 Order of Play
Center Court
Starts at 5:00 AM
CAN G. Dabrowski/NZL E. Routliffe (2) vs USA C. Dolehide/USA D. Krawczyk (5)
Followed By
POL I. Swiatek (2) vs RUS D. Kasatkina
Followed By
USA C. Gauff (3) vs CZE B. Krejcikova (8)
Followed By
ITA S. Errani/ITA J. Paolini (4) vs TPE H. Chan/RUS V. Kudermetova (7)
by ponchi101 "Jessica Pegula has withdrawn from her last match in Royadh with a case of 'I could not care less about the money because I am the only player here that can look at one of these sheiks in the eye and call him B****' but I will say it is my ankle"
Better?
by JTContinental Her scorelines have been uncharacteristically uninspired, so there could be a niggling injury.