Talk About Tennis 2.0

Day 4 Pick Summary

Start 84
No Pick 2
Remaining 82

Tsitsipas 31
Meptshi Perricard 14
Korda 7
Rune 6
Shelton 10
Navone 5
Khachanov 3
Altmaier 2
Kecmanovic 1
Musetti 1
Popyrin 1
Ruud 1

Surviviors 35
Dead 47
Unknown 0

I’m a little confused. How can you pick Shelton after he already “won”? Does this mean we could all have picked him last night AFTER he got the walkover?

I’m a little confused. How can you pick Shelton after he already “won”? Does this mean we could all have picked him last night AFTER he got the walkover?

pudding wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 1:36 pm I’m a little confused. How can you pick Shelton after he already “won”? Does this mean we could all have picked him last night AFTER he got the walkover?

This is mostly because I had forgotten a rule that is invoked so seldom that I forgot that it existed. From now on, your pick will need to actually start the match to be valid.

What happens if the Walkover comes after lock?

IronMike wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 4:56 pm What happens if the Walkover comes after lock?

Hmmm, good question. Technically, if the walkover is not announced until after play has started somewhere, i.e. after lock, then the pick should be valid. My main concern will be if I am going to be able to determine when the walkover decision is made well enough to know that the decision was made after play has starrted somewhere, as opposed to when the walkover decision is announced. We want to reward the ability to predict match winners, as opposed to rewarding the ability to hear about walkover decisions before the rest of the public.

I will welcome comments and suggestion on this issue.

If the walkover is announced after play starts I don't see how you could penalize someone. But like you say then you have to figure out when it was announced and it becomes a mess

Plus, think of late rounds where to beat draw you may "have" to pick that player.

It's pretty simple in my view, if a match ends in a w/o after start of play, then the player that advances in the draw "won" and the player that withdrew is out of the tournament. This is also how we've treated it historically in the SP.

I say.
Anything after play starts is not controlled by our members. So, picks should stand. Picking a W/O before play starts should not be allowed, if multiple options are available.

The problem is timing. This is global. So we deal with times and time zones. Let's say the schedule is made. Let's say a w/o is announced 2 hours before the beginning of play. That is the middle of the night somewhere. So if someone picked the person who benefits from the w/o before the w/o was announced are we saying their pick is invalid? Even if that meant they were sleeping because the w/o was announced at 2a.m.?

I'm not sure there is a totally good answer...

texasniteowl wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 8:27 pm The problem is timing. This is global. So we deal with times and time zones. Let's say the schedule is made. Let's say a w/o is announced 2 hours before the beginning of play. That is the middle of the night somewhere. So if someone picked the person who benefits from the w/o before the w/o was announced are we saying their pick is invalid? Even if that meant they were sleeping because the w/o was announced at 2a.m.?

I'm not sure there is a totally good answer...

Yes, there's not a fully fair solution. But, IMHO, the least unfair solution is that if a match is no longer on the schedule of play at start of play, that match is ineligible. While this can penalize people who were sleeping/working/etc. vs those who saw the last-minute withdrawal announcement and picked from another match, the opposite would be even less fair (letting someone advance without a valid match pick for the day.

And, yes, I am still angry for Gasquet withdrawing from the 2007 US Open with a cough minutes before start of play.

Also, I think this walkover was a bit unusual in that it came so far in advance.

Thanks as always for organizing. I crashed out with Tsitsipas. Good luck...

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 6:33 pm If the walkover is announced after play starts I don't see how you could penalize someone. But like you say then you have to figure out when it was announced and it becomes a mess

Plus, think of late rounds where to beat draw you may "have" to pick that player.

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 7:01 pm It's pretty simple in my view, if a match ends in a w/o after start of play, then the player that advances in the draw "won" and the player that withdrew is out of the tournament. This is also how we've treated it historically in the SP.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 7:26 pm I say.
Anything after play starts is not controlled by our members. So, picks should stand. Picking a W/O before play starts should not be allowed, if multiple options are available.

texasniteowl wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 8:27 pm The problem is timing. This is global. So we deal with times and time zones. Let's say the schedule is made. Let's say a w/o is announced 2 hours before the beginning of play. That is the middle of the night somewhere. So if someone picked the person who benefits from the w/o before the w/o was announced are we saying their pick is invalid? Even if that meant they were sleeping because the w/o was announced at 2a.m.?

I'm not sure there is a totally good answer...

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 8:37 pm

texasniteowl wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 8:27 pm The problem is timing. This is global. So we deal with times and time zones. Let's say the schedule is made. Let's say a w/o is announced 2 hours before the beginning of play. That is the middle of the night somewhere. So if someone picked the person who benefits from the w/o before the w/o was announced are we saying their pick is invalid? Even if that meant they were sleeping because the w/o was announced at 2a.m.?

I'm not sure there is a totally good answer...

Yes, there's not a fully fair solution. But, IMHO, the least unfair solution is that if a match is no longer on the schedule of play at start of play, that match is ineligible. While this can penalize people who were sleeping/working/etc. vs those who saw the last-minute withdrawal announcement and picked from another match, the opposite would be even less fair (letting someone advance without a valid match pick for the day.

And, yes, I am still angry for Gasquet withdrawing from the 2007 US Open with a cough minutes before start of play.

I agree with everything that has been said. The proper cut-off time is the start of play. If a withdraw happens after the start of play, then the winning player is a valid pick. If the withdraw happens before the start of play, then the winning player is not a valid pick. I also agree with texasniteowl that this is not an ideal rule, and that some people's ability to make valid picks might be impaired because the time zone they live in. However, I also agree with mmmm8, in that this is the least unfair solution to the problem. I also know that mmmm8 has been around for a long time and probably has the best rememberance of how the rule has been applied in this situation, historically.

Thanks everyone, for your input.

Seems the only fair solution

Perricard is a strictly second-rate player, after his serve, there is nothing - all his shots look shaky.. I was cursing myself for picking him on day 1 but there were few good options so I survived.. but too many people backed him in the scond round! The decline of Tsitsipas is sad, to say the least.. he is a fun player to watch.. oh well.