Talk About Tennis 2.0

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:06 pm I would agree with that position, but this is the Chinese government. They are very good at tracking people. If she is in China, hiding is a good idea, but that can't go forever. If she is outside of China, then why the silence from her?
You are right; right now, all we have are hypothesis. But the alternatives are:
1. She is in China, and in the hands of the government. Bad outcome.
2. She is in China, and hiding from the government. The chances for a good outcome are slim.
3. She is not in China, and is hiding from the Chinese government. But hiding and not asking for assistance from the government of wherever she is not the best policy, because you can count on the Chinese government looking for her.

The options are not pleasant.

She might still choose to remain silent for the time being even if she isn't in China. She might not be 100% out of their clutches.

Regarding #3, she could be asking for assistance from a different government. We wouldn't necessarily know.

Now Simon just said: "The statement released today by Chinese state media concerning Peng Shuai only raises my concerns as to her safety and whereabouts. Peng Shuai must be allowed to speak freely, without coercion or intimidation from any source."

So he wasn't "assured" of her safety. The assurances weren't actually assuring, unless something has changed since then. I'm disappointed that Clarey let that misleading information into his story and tweets.

Ugh. I thought he had heard something pretty solid.

Jon said it well:

It's Time for the WTA to Stop Doing Business in China
While the Tour has called for an investigation into the allegations made by former pro Peng Shuai, it also has a considerable opportunity in this crisis: to cut ties with a country so unaligned with its mission.
JON WERTHEIM

While the tennis world obsesses over Emma Raducanu’s coach, the Guadalajara results and groupings in Turin, we have a real crisis. In short strokes. Last week, on Nov. 2, the recently retired WTA veteran Peng Shuai took to Weibo, a Chinese social media platform, to give an account of being sexually assaulted by Zhang Gaoli, a former high-ranking member of the Chinese Communist Party.

The account has since been taken down and comments have been disabled. And no one within China can read about this. Any and all reference to this matter—which has been covered everywhere from the BBC to The New York Times to Al Jazeera—has been scrubbed from Chinese search engines. And now comes news that Shuai has “disappeared,” which would be in keeping with China’s treatment of high-profile dissenters. It’s deeply disturbing and concerning. It’s terrible for Shuai, whose safety is paramount.

It’s a considerable crisis for the WTA Tour. It’s also a considerable opportunity for the WTA Tour.

It’s no secret that doing business in and with China can be—and often is—deeply problematic. Ask Apple. Ask Nike. Ask the NBA. Ask NBC, which has to negotiate how and whether it wants to address human-rights abuses and the Uyghur genocide and lifetime appointments during its Olympic coverage. (Bob Costas will tell you this is why he chooses not to be part of the coverage.) The 2008 Beijing Games that were supposed to liberalize China made its regime only more brazen in rejecting liberal democracy and human rights.

We all have different thresholds for outrage. Companies and humans are good at holding their noses and rationalizing bad acts, especially when there’s money to be made. In tennis, though, we are at a different point. This isn’t just sweeping human-rights abuses and something systemically untroubling. This is a player—a longstanding, top-flight, well-liked veteran—caught in the gears and reportedly “missing.” How, in any kind of conscience—much less, good conscience—can the WTA continue engaging here? How can players who have global brands and have, admirably, used their platform to speak credibly about other forms of social justice, abide by this?

The WTA must ask itself a simple question: What does it stand for? What is its objective? If it’s simply to maximize revenues, it will stay in China, where a dozen events are held, more than in any other country. If the WTA has terms beyond the mercenary, it must demand transparency and action. And be prepared to get out, to stop doing business in a country so unaligned with its purported mission. Bravo to Steve Simon for stating as much, to The New York Times: “We would be prepared to take that step and not operate out business in China.” Now for the follow-through …

Leaving China will come at a steep price. Ash Barty won more money at the 2019 WTA Finals event in Shenzhen than the entire purse for this year’s event. I’m told that China is responsible for at least one-third of the WTA revenues. Yet leaving China also lets the WTA distinguish itself for principles. What a statement this would send—especially with a Winter Olympics months away. What a way to say, “Our athletes’ safety and or moral principles—our belief in women’s rights, human rights and democracy—matter more than our balance sheets.”

This marks a real moment of truth and reckoning for the WTA. Here’s a pep talk: Believe in your product. Believe in your players. Believe in your international appeal. Believe that the market will reward backbone.

ti-amie wrote:

Yeah, it’s a joke that whoever sent it thought anyone would believe it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes. The WTA should not do business in China.
And then some accountant somewhere will say "we will lose this much" and the excuses will start.
Maybe the same accountant that works for the NBA.
Bravo for Jon for penning that.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:53 am Yes. The WTA should not do business in China.
And then some accountant somewhere will say "we will lose this much" and the excuses will start.
Maybe the same accountant that works for the NBA.
Bravo for Jon for penning that.

Is the idea of not doing business in China mostly because fo the Peng situation, or because of China's general sins as an autocracy, independent of yet inspired by the treatment of Peng?

I put this here instead of the tournament thread because it was a truly remarkable speech. As we know all players aren't free to make speeches like this.

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:30 pm ...

Is the idea of not doing business in China mostly because fo the Peng situation, or because of China's general sins as an autocracy, independent of yet inspired by the treatment of Peng?

I have been critical of the Chinese regime even before Tiananmen. I tried all my life to boycott Chinese products that I knew were manufactured under conditions I believe were inhumane (I do not buy tennis clothing or any clothing that is made in China). I truly try to stick, as much as possible, to products not made there.
So, personally, my opinion is independent of the situation with Peng. Peng is just another example of a regime that is unjustifiable.
The world will see, when China attempts to annex Taiwan, via military force.

Sadly, the clothing factories in other countries - like Honduras, Bangladesh, India, etc. have working conditions which are usually as bad or even worse than the ones in China.

Because we (humanity) have created disgusting conditions by which it's extremely difficult to find clothing which is NOT made under abusive and unhealthy working conditions, I buy second-hand clothes as much as possible.

I was going to put this link (below) somewhere - I was wondering where to put it... maybe in 'Random, Random'... maybe in 'NBA'... but I guess I'll put it right here, as it's pertinent to this discussion...

Notwithstanding that it's 'principles', not 'principals', and that Nike is certainly not the only offender (but they are the ones with the most money, so they can easily afford to pay their workers much better and create better working conditions), I really like the stance that Enes Kanter is taking here.
I would love to see more athletes showing some integrity and taking similar positions...

'Money Over Morals'

About 20 years ago, I saw a kid in a shopping mall who was about 11 years old and wearing a Nike hat. He was with his mom. I said to him "Do you know that children your age and younger are forced to make those hats in poor countries, and are paid next to nothing?"
The kid responded, without any hesitation "I don't care - the hat's cool."
That pretty much sums up the impersonal, selfish North American perspective on life.

Serena has voiced her serious concerns about the Peng Shuai situation. My hat off to her.
It is time for the PLAYERS, not the WTA, to be more vocal. If possible, ask the ATP counterparts to join. Every single top 10 player in the world, from both tours, plus the usual constellation of stars (Serena and Naomi in the WTA, Roger, Rafa and Nole in the ATP) has to make it clear that they will boycott China until Peng Shuai can speak freely, in a forum outside of China.
I know, I know, I know. I am also asking Santa for that pony for Xmas. But it cannot only be Serena and Naomi posting TWT or IG stuff.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:17 pm Serena has voiced her serious concerns about the Peng Shuai situation. My hat off to her.
It is time for the PLAYERS, not the WTA, to be more vocal. If possible, ask the ATP counterparts to join. Every single top 10 player in the world, from both tours, plus the usual constellation of stars (Serena and Naomi in the WTA, Roger, Rafa and Nole in the ATP) has to make it clear that they will boycott China until Peng Shuai can speak freely, in a forum outside of China.
I know, I know, I know. I am also asking Santa for that pony for Xmas. But it cannot only be Serena and Naomi posting TWT or IG stuff.

Yeah, this has finally blown up with major news coverage. The Wall Street Journal has two pieces on it. It was on CNN with an interview withe Steve Simon (and the host pointed out that the show would be censored in China). A reporter asked Biden today (or his press secretary, not sure) if the US will consider boycotting the Olympics (diplomats only), and I wondered if the question was spurred by the Peng situation.

Lots of players have mentioned it on social media in the last 2 days, following Osaka and Serena and Djokovic. Not sure if Djokovic spoke up online independently or if he just voiced support in an interview from Turin. Some other notable players who have spoken up are Halep, Kvitova, Gauff, Cornet (twice), Mahut (twice), Wawrinka, Sakkari, Jabeur, Rajeev Ram (hey, I'm from Indiana), Clijsters, Julia Goerges. Also BJK, Chris Evert, P-Mac, Mouratoglou, Stubbs... Roger hasn't said anything, right?

Murray, of course, nailed it.

[sorry, repeated info]

On a less serious note I'm reading that a statistically significant match has taken place in Montevideo challenger between Vitoria Jimenez Kasintseva and Maria Carle. Kasintseva won 7-6 (12), 5-7, 7-5 in match featuring 26 breaks and only 10 holds. Even more significantly there was a golden first set with 12 straight breaks! They were battling for 3 h 50 min.

Forgot to add: 22 double faults and no aces...