Talk About Tennis 2.0

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Iga Swiatek at 22yo:

Youngest since Seles to win consecutive titles at #RolandGarros

1st woman to defend the title since Henin

Joins Seles & Osaka as the only women in the OE to win their 1st 4 Slam finals

Youngest to 4 Slams titles since Serena.

South Africa's Kgothatso Montjane and Japan's Yui Kamiji Women's Doubles Champions

Perhaps we can all now agree..Swiatek is Great, not just good. She was accustomed to bageling even good players- when she had to fight and scrap, she did that too..

Once more...the RG champion did not win Madrid or Rome. ...

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 2:19 am Perhaps we can all now agree..Swiatek is Great, not just good. She was accustomed to bageling even good players- when she had to fight and scrap, she did that too..

She is on her way. I will admit that. But, for me, great requires more than 4 slams. She has proven to need some help on grass, and the Aussie remains elusive (which is hard to explain).
Let's give her more time.
She has now won her first 4 slam finals, joining Seles and Osaka. That should tilt in your favor.

How many women have won more than 4 in the open era? Have trouble finding an exact number, but I think it's 12 or 13. Maria Sharapova and Martina Hingis won 5, Kim Clijsters, Arantxa Sanchez Vicario and Hana Mandlikova ended up with 4 each. Some other influential players (Mauresmo, Davenport, Austin, Barty) didn't get even that many.

I think the real reason many of us are reluctant to call Swiatek a great player is not the Slam count, but the not yet proven staying power. It's only 1 1/2 years since she plays at this level,,.

I am still not calling her a great player because I am reserving that for the players with 10+. Sharapova is not a great player to me, despite the fact that she even won a career slam. Osaka had so much promise, and we will have to wait a bit more.
I am trying to cure myself of the biases, and one of them is recency-bias. Sure, Iga won RG, and it is this simple: she had the best clay court season, almost by definition. And she has had a very good year, with three titles already and one of them a slam (every other player in the tour not called Sabalenka would trade for sure) but I want to wait a bit more.
Do I think she ends as a great player? Barring disasters, I say yes; she is well on her way to that 10+ slams (you and I agree that she will get 6-7 RG's alone).
But I also have to admit my bias against her. She is an excellent player, a great ambassador for the sport, seems like a very nice person, but... I just can't get over the strokes. I find them so ugly I can't root for her. Sort of the same thing that happens to me with Medvedev.

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 4:16 pm How many women have won more than 4 in the open era? Have trouble finding an exact number, but I think it's 12 or 13. Maria Sharapova and Martina Hingis won 5, Kim Clijsters, Arantxa Sanchez Vicario and Hana Mandlikova ended up with 4 each. Some other influential players (Mauresmo, Davenport, Austin, Barty) didn't get even that many.

Graf, Seles, Evert, Navratilova, Henin, Venus and Serena, Sharapova, Hingis, Billie Jean King, Court & Goolagong. Can't think of any others.

Not huge Nole fan (not a hater either), but can't deny his athleticism, talent, and ability

He has won as many slams AFTER AGE 30 as Borg and Laver did in their entire career.
I say the case is settled.

The talk right now has to be about Novak, and rightly so.
But what about Ruud? In a very quiet way, he has now reached 3 slam finals and one YEC final. Three of those against two of the top three players of all time, the other against a very talented young player.
He has now lost all four, but, what can we expect from him? Is he going to be a Murray? Once Novak retires, this is going to be very open. Does Ruud ever get to win an RG? Maybe some other slam?
He is so unflashy that it is difficult to see him becoming a dominant player, but I just said it: three slam finals, at age 24. Will he be able to one day collect one?