Talk About Tennis 2.0

Why only three? Could easily be 8 or 10 too.

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:26 pm Why only three? Could easily be 8 or 10 too.

I think Swiatek be in the position to win more Slams, barring major injury or life disruption. But it's so hard to win Slams.... I think it's underestimated a lot. I could see three or four. More wouldn't surprise me, but 3 or 4 is a solid career. Even Halep only has 2, and she has spent more weeks in the Top 10 of any player since Sanchez Viccario or Steffi, whoever was the last in the top 10 - a shocking stat to me.

Halep had Serena around. Iga probably won't have anyone like that.

Not saying that she'll win that many, but would it shock me? Not at all... We're way too conservative here with this. 5-10 Slam winners are not that incredibly rare, every generation has 1-2.

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:40 pm Halep had Serena around. Iga probably won't have anyone like that.

Not saying that she'll win that many, but would it shock me? Not at all... We're way too conservative here with this. 5-10 Slam winners are not that incredibly rare, every generation has 1-2.

Off the top of my head, the only people with 5 or more Slams in the last couple generations:
Serena
Venus
Henin
Sharapova

Halep only played Serena in 4 Slams since she became a top player (2013). One of those, she won. (My god, that match... maybe Halep's best ever.) I still say it's just really hard to win Slams! Partly because of life and injuries. It's become a less-meaningful stat to me than consistency in the Top 10. Of course, Slams are the coin of the realm and the ultimate goal, but getting to the latter rounds consistently (reflected in ranking) is just as meaningful to me now. and yeah, I think Swiatek will be a consistent week 2 player, a lot of quarters and better.

Not trying to argue with you. I just love this topic. We tend to reduce careers to Slam counts, and there's so much more to it. Heck, to me 2 Slams is a fantastic achievement now.

I think Barty can get 5-8, maybe more if she stays interested/motivated. I could see her interest waning if she wants to stay home a lot, maybe start a family. Osaka could, of course. Probably will get 5-8.

I think it takes a very special player to get more than a few Slams, to have that dedication/ motivation/hunger over a long time, getting lucky with injuries, managing all the intangibles like coaching situations, recovery periods, opportunities that arise when you become successful, and life interruptions... It's less about the tennis. I think many people have the tennis to win 5 Slams. But not everything else. Maybe Swiatek is one of those players. She's got the fight/grit, which I think is really important. Serena, Sharapova, Henin - fighters, all of them.

I say three because I say we are entering a long era of incredible parity. Iga is just one of, I would say, 10 players with slams in their future (for Iga, more slams). So I am only going for 3 to be on the safe side.
Her best surface is clay, but that is also a lot of other players' best surface. And none of them will have to deal with a Steffi or a Serena, but they will have to handle 5 rounds of really tough opponents. Look at Cornet at this Aussie; she took out Mugu and Halep. And then goes down to Collins. I know we agree that they are all very even.

Can we say that we're firmly in Barty era if she wins her 3rd on Saturday?

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:57 pm Can we say that we're firmly in Barty era if she wins her 3rd on Saturday?

Yes. I'd say so even if she loses tonight. She has separated herself from the pack by winning often and easily.

I would not. For me, an ERA is when a player is winning 2-3 slams a year, continuously. Roger from 2004 through 2008. Steffi and Serena during their peaks, Borg 78-80. I say Barty is the best player right now, but if Keys beats her tonight, I will not be surprised at all. It will not be Vinci beating Serena at the USO.

I'm somewhere in the middle. For someone to be really on the top there are two requirements - #1 rankings and either holding two Slams the last year or three over the last two years. Barty is approaching that territory, but only if she wins.

Actually era maybe is indeed saying too much (really more like ponchi defines). Maybe more proper would be to say that if Barty takes the title WTA is not at full parity anymore. There is a clear top dog everyone should be aiming to dethrone.

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:33 pm Actually era maybe is indeed saying too much (really more like ponchi defines). Maybe more proper would be to say that if Barty takes the title WTA is not at full parity anymore. There is a clear top dog everyone should be aiming to dethrone.

Definitely. But I'd even give that to her right now, personally. Maybe Era is too much, but she is the clear top dog, as you say, and has separated herself from everyone else. Really wish she and Osaka would have played this tournament. I think Osaka can challenge her this year for the mantel. Difference is Barty is more consistent week in and week out and more committed to the tour events, I think.

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:59 am Iga Swiatek has reached the 4th round or better in five straight Slams. I think that counts as consistency in todays WTA.

Not for me. I've watched a good deal of her matches at those slams and she seems to play a combo of cupcake draws in early rounds and very good players that let her off the hook far too often. Luck has definitely been on her side, whereas many higher seeds have come upon quite a few dangerous unseeded players as an early test, she's largely been able to avoid that fate.

JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:27 pm

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:59 am Iga Swiatek has reached the 4th round or better in five straight Slams. I think that counts as consistency in todays WTA.

Not for me. I've watched a good deal of her matches at those slams and she seems to play a combo of cupcake draws in early rounds and very good players that let her off the hook far too often. Luck has definitely been on her side, whereas many higher seeds have come upon quite a few dangerous unseeded players as an early test, she's largely been able to avoid that fate.

You can say the same thing about Barty.

I watched Iga's match last night and it was clearly only a matter of time until Kanepi ran out of gas and possibly lose. The ESPN crew kept asking why she had no wristbands on such a hot day. One hand was bleeding from a blister that had come open. And she still came close to upsetting Swiatek.

I have nothing against Barty but she needs the right draw to get into the late stages of a Slam. Swiatek is the same.

JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:27 pm

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:59 am Iga Swiatek has reached the 4th round or better in five straight Slams. I think that counts as consistency in todays WTA.

Not for me. I've watched a good deal of her matches at those slams and she seems to play a combo of cupcake draws in early rounds and very good players that let her off the hook far too often. Luck has definitely been on her side, whereas many higher seeds have come upon quite a few dangerous unseeded players as an early test, she's largely been able to avoid that fate.

But it is a comparative statement. If you call that consistency, but bring Evert as the measuring rod, it is a very loose statement. But compared to the rest of the top ten, her run certainly stands out AT THE MOMENT. All the other top ten are like "2 semis, 1 QF, 2 second rounders". Barty is, excluding this Aussie: R32, W, R64, QF, SF. Not shabby but a bit more fluctuation.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:52 am
But it is a comparative statement. If you call that consistency, but bring Evert as the measuring rod, it is a very loose statement. But compared to the rest of the top ten, her run certainly stands out AT THE MOMENT. All the other top ten are like "2 semis, 1 QF, 2 second rounders". Barty is, excluding this Aussie: R32, W, R64, QF, SF. Not shabby but a bit more fluctuation.

I don't understand the Evert comment.

If you want to call what Swiatek has done consistent, that's fine. I'm just not there with her yet. I was surprised that she qualified for the WTA Finals last season because, having watched a good deal of her matches this season, not just at the grand slams, I just didn't think she was there. I was not at all surprised that her form did not match that of her competitors that tournament. I think she'll get there, mind you, I just don't think her game (and her game plan) is there right now. And this is all off clay. I'm probably one of the few who watched every single match she played during her French Open title run, and after watching her first match where she made previous year's finalist Vondrousova look like some amateur she was swatting out of her way, I knew she could win the whole thing and posted as much. I'm still as impressed as heck of her on that surface, but she's been pretty inconsistent on the other surfaces, sometimes looking amazing, other times much less than that, and it can even happen within the same match.

I could say more, but I'll leave it here. Consistent is just not a word I can use to describe Swiatek right now.