Talk About Tennis 2.0 • Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

by skatingfan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:05 pm Mailbag.pngI thought long and hard about sending this comment to Jon this week. I didn't think he'd run it. I wanted to unpack a lot more to explain why it bothers me. I'm all for giving Mike Tyson a second chance, but my immediate reaction to seeing him a lot has definite value, too - because it's easy to talk yourself into thinking it's no big deal. But to me, it is. Not so much his mere presence as seeing the biggest people in the sport loving him, laughing with him, admiring him... it gives the impression that they simply don't care what women would think about that and they really don't take domestic abuse very seriously. And I have a feeling that's actually true. Why do we treat rapists more generously than racists, and abusers more generously than molesters? (I'd say this goes for homophobia, too - I imagine this is how gay people feel when they see people apparently accepting Tennys Sandgren's transgressions. I'd be embarrassed if my gay friends saw me go to one of his matches. I don't think either he or Mike Tyson are awful people. There's more to them than their sins. They might genuinely have changed. But when you see them exalted in your sport, it stings.)

The quote thing - it was just jarring to see Mouratoglou having this conversation with him. I get it, it had nothing to do with Tyson's past as an abuser, and it's actually a good point about pressure. In the moment, of course you stay in the interview and respect your guest. I wish he had thought twice about posting it, unless it was purely live. I'm willing to bet it didn't even cross his mind.

(BTW - thinking about it, I'm sure I don't have a clear view of how racists are actually treated. Maybe there are plenty of racists who are exalted in tennis the same way. So I'm sorry if I have misjudged that.)

Do you have a link @meganfernandez? I can't read the images you posted.

by ponchi101 The only part in which I would disagree with you, Megan, is that Tyson did his time. In theory, he paid the price. This sets him apart from a lot of people that we know did something and have not even stepped in court.
That is the societal contract (in theory). You did your time, the slate is "clean".
It reminds me of another case. The killer of John Lennon was sentenced to 20 years in prison after his trial. But that was in 1980 (trial in 81). So in reality, this man, who is still in prison, is serving "life" (he has been denied parole 11 times) when the law passed a sentence of 20 years.
I understand. He murdered somebody. But the societal contract cannot work on the basis that because you killed somebody "special" (which would be biased) then the law does not apply to you in the opposite direction: you can have a sentenced passed by the system extended indefinitely, simply because of perception.

I see your point. Tyson did terrible things. But then he paid his price. I believe he can return to society in full. We have to keep an eye on him, but to me, his slate is clean.

BTW. In these times of slow tennis news, if I were Jon I would print your letter. It touches an interesting subject, and one well worth talking about. Keep us posted if he does, and please link it. I would like to read other opinions.

by ti-amie Also Tyson was mismanaged in his early years. He seems to have found a stable home environment and mental health regimen. He did his time. He is entitled to have a second chance.

by mmmm8

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:16 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:02 pm Here in Bogota we can get an antigen/antibody test in 4 hours. One company has set up shop at the airport and you can get the test in 2. People are going to the airport a little earlier (of, a couple of hours earlier), get the test, and get the result there, on the spot. The good thing about that is that you don't get the weird scenario of getting your test yesterday, results on the same day, and then during the afternoon you rubbed elbows with somebody that passed it along.
The PCR is the one that can't be shortened, so the three days of waiting to get the results may be the three days in which you catch it. I would trust that one a little less.
Does the result of the antibody test have any bearing on whether someone boards a plane or not? I can't imagine it does. So what's the point?

It depends on the airline. My friends flew NY to Bogota on Avianca a couple months ago and the airline required a negative test in the last 24 hours (they had one from less than 72 hours before and it wasn't accepted). (I'm talking about the Antigen test, not the antibody test)

by mmmm8 I have the same reaction as Megan. Agree - he did his time, so this isn't saying he can't have a public life. But we should also not pretend he never did what he did just because he paid the price or admitted it or is a better person now. It's the adulation and completely ignoring his past that bother me.

For what it's worth, I had the same issue with Kobe Bryant. Yes, he appeared to have become a much better person, and his death was a loss, but it really bothered me his admitted rape of a woman was never acknowledged in the more recent years before his tragic death or the adulation after.

by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:26 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:05 pm Mailbag.pngI thought long and hard about sending this comment to Jon this week. I didn't think he'd run it. I wanted to unpack a lot more to explain why it bothers me. I'm all for giving Mike Tyson a second chance, but my immediate reaction to seeing him a lot has definite value, too - because it's easy to talk yourself into thinking it's no big deal. But to me, it is. Not so much his mere presence as seeing the biggest people in the sport loving him, laughing with him, admiring him... it gives the impression that they simply don't care what women would think about that and they really don't take domestic abuse very seriously. And I have a feeling that's actually true. Why do we treat rapists more generously than racists, and abusers more generously than molesters? (I'd say this goes for homophobia, too - I imagine this is how gay people feel when they see people apparently accepting Tennys Sandgren's transgressions. I'd be embarrassed if my gay friends saw me go to one of his matches. I don't think either he or Mike Tyson are awful people. There's more to them than their sins. They might genuinely have changed. But when you see them exalted in your sport, it stings.)

The quote thing - it was just jarring to see Mouratoglou having this conversation with him. I get it, it had nothing to do with Tyson's past as an abuser, and it's actually a good point about pressure. In the moment, of course you stay in the interview and respect your guest. I wish he had thought twice about posting it, unless it was purely live. I'm willing to bet it didn't even cross his mind.

(BTW - thinking about it, I'm sure I don't have a clear view of how racists are actually treated. Maybe there are plenty of racists who are exalted in tennis the same way. So I'm sorry if I have misjudged that.)
Do you have a link @meganfernandez? I can't read the images you posted.

https://www.si.com/tennis/2021/01/20/ma ... tive-tests

by JazzNU Greatly misjudging the racism part. And it's interesting to classify Sandgren as homophobic and nothing else.

I have legitimately no idea what you've posted in that photo, can't see it with a magnifying glass it's so tiny for me. But I do know that part of Mike Tyson being around the sport in large part is about his daughter, who is a junior tennis player that trains with the Mouratoglou Academy. She loves loves loves tennis, so she's gotten to meet her idols by going to various events in recent years because her dad can get in places.

I agree with @Ti that he served his time, a long time ago at that, and deserves a second chance. We can't exile every person for 30 years after their sentence has been served. Especially when they haven't been acting in a manner post-sentence that raises alarms. I think that's a dangerous approach to prison sentences and rehabilitating criminals. We want them to re-enter and become productive members of society. Not ostracize them and encourage them to become repeat offenders because their options are so limited.

Is part of the problem that tennis players specifically aren't constantly bringing up his 30 year old history or would you be as disturbed by him sitting in the Indianapolis Colts locker room with Peyton Manning or Frank Reich having a conversation too? Mike Tyson has been accepted back into the sports world after he served his time. It wasn't immediate by any stretch, but in the last 15 years or so, he's been around. It's not just tennis.

As an aside, I'm super confused on why this is in the AO thread. Is that related to the stuff we can't read in the image?

by ponchi101 Devil's advocate: So do we go scarlet letter? You cannot clean your past, regardless of what you become in the future?
I am asking because I believe that adulation is a bit too much. It is not as if Tyson is in every SportsCenter, every night.
Plus, he did his time, fully. He was not let out on parole. That should count.
EDIT: writing while JazzNu was posting too. He says it better than I do.

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:55 pm I have the same reaction as Megan. Agree - he did his time, so this isn't saying he can't have a public life. But we should also not pretend he never did what he did just because he paid the price or admitted it or is a better person now. It's the adulation and completely ignoring his past that bother me.

For what it's worth, I had the same issue with Kobe Bryant. Yes, he appeared to have become a much better person, and his death was a loss, but it really bothered me his admitted rape of a woman was never acknowledged in the more recent years before his tragic death or the adulation after.

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:55 pm I have the same reaction as Megan. Agree - he did his time, so this isn't saying he can't have a public life. But we should also not pretend he never did what he did just because he paid the price or admitted it or is a better person now. It's the adulation and completely ignoring his past that bother me.

For what it's worth, I had the same issue with Kobe Bryant. Yes, he appeared to have become a much better person, and his death was a loss, but it really bothered me his admitted rape of a woman was never acknowledged in the more recent years before his tragic death or the adulation after.

I didn't meant to post this in the AO thread. Shoulda been Tennis Random, Random. Sorry. If someone wants to move it, go ahead.

Agree about Kobe. Thanks for the reply, too. Yes, it's the adulation. It's all a sign of where society ranks domestic violence as a serious crime. That's what I'm reminded of when I see him as an honored guest in tennis media. If the Menendez brothers ever manage to get out on parole, changed men, I guess we'll see them on the Tennis Channel reflecting on their years in the SoCal tennis scene. They deserve it!

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm drawing awareness to something that is important to me.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:08 pm Devil's advocate: So do we go scarlet letter? You cannot clean your past, regardless of what you become in the future?
I am asking because I believe that adulation is a bit too much. It is not as if Tyson is in every SportsCenter, every night.
Plus, he did his time, fully. He was not let out on parole. That should count.
EDIT: writing while JazzNu was posting too. He says it better than I do.

Without giving it a scholarly level of consideration, I'd probably give violent criminals a scarlet letter for some things in public life, broadly speaking, yeah. But again, for me it's more about what Tyson's emerging guest-of-honor casting reveals about the tennis establishment.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:04 pm The only part in which I would disagree with you, Megan, is that Tyson did his time. In theory, he paid the price. This sets him apart from a lot of people that we know did something and have not even stepped in court.
That is the societal contract (in theory). You did your time, the slate is "clean".
It reminds me of another case. The killer of John Lennon was sentenced to 20 years in prison after his trial. But that was in 1980 (trial in 81). So in reality, this man, who is still in prison, is serving "life" (he has been denied parole 11 times) when the law passed a sentence of 20 years.
I understand. He murdered somebody. But the societal contract cannot work on the basis that because you killed somebody "special" (which would be biased) then the law does not apply to you in the opposite direction: you can have a sentenced passed by the system extended indefinitely, simply because of perception.

I see your point. Tyson did terrible things. But then he paid his price. I believe he can return to society in full. We have to keep an eye on him, but to me, his slate is clean.

BTW. In these times of slow tennis news, if I were Jon I would print your letter. It touches an interesting subject, and one well worth talking about. Keep us posted if he does, and please link it. I would like to read other opinions.

^ I disagree. The slate is not clean, because when a person commits a disgusting act which harms another person or persons, that doesn't magically disappear after the offender has 'done his/her time'. The offence still occurred, and there is nothing that will ever erase that fact - not the largest fine in the world, not prison time, not a large donation to charity, not celebrity status - nothing erases factual happenings.

To say the slate is clean suggests that those who have committed disgusting acts which have harmed others, and have then 'served their punishment', should be viewed in the same light as those who have never committed a harmful act. That's ludicrous - and blatantly unjust. That should never happen. If you've done something significantly bad in which another person was deliberately harmed (or, in the case of something like driving drunk/high, even if the harm done was not blatantly deliberate), it should stay with you forever. Because you did it - and there is nothing that should allow anyone to pretend that the harmful act was not done.

I agree very much with mmmm8's sentiments on this subject.

Some people who've done harmful things do 'turn their life around', and become positive members of society - and everyone should be given that opportunity - a 'second chance', so to speak. But that doesn't erase the bad things they've done. 'Scarlet Letter'? Hell, yes. Give everyone an opportunity to become a better person and to be a positive force - yes - but NEVER forget the bad that they've done, because it is fact, and should definitely not 'magically vanish'.
From what I've seen, Mike Tyson is certainly not one of the people who've become positive members of society. I view him as being quite capable of re-offending in much the same manner as in his past. He is a very troubled man, and, sadly, very likely will be for the duration.
Certainly, there are reasons that Tyson is the person that he is - he wasn't nurtured or guided properly in his youth. But no-one can change or fix his youth now. And overcoming an inadequate and un-loving upbringing is one of the most difficult things to do in life.

The only way a person's slate can truly be clean is to not commit the harmful act in the first place. Those are the only people who truly possess a clean slate.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:09 pm His family.
Who are experts at... what?
I believe Mischa can help him with his training, despite the polar opposite styles. Dad can help with... the snacks? Who takes care of his frequent PR issues? Mom?
He seemed so grounded just a few years ago.

I didn't see this earlier, but just thought I'd mention. It's been thought of for a couple of years now, so well before current problems, that once Mischa finally retired he'd become Sascha's manager. This would be more of a day to day manager, not in place of Fed's management team. If you recall, he's been in a legal fight with her previous management for about two years that just concluded in a few weeks ago. It was ugly. I assume the thinking was that keeping it in the family made it certain that he wouldn't run into the situation he'd been in with the last manager.

FWIW, Grounded is not a word I've ever thought to associate with Sascha.

by ponchi101

Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:30 am
^ I disagree. ...

I find this very interesting.
1. Nobody said that the offense of the person disappears "magically". That is the reason society sets a punishment. The fault has disappeared so little that here we are, discussing an abuse case clearly in everybody's mind almost 3 decades ago.
2. But if the person will remain with a scarlet letter, then what is the point of a prison sentence? Myke Tyson is not running for public office; he is not running an orphanage. He gave an interview. Should this be something he should not be allowed to do? He was a top athlete in his sport. Should he not be allowed to talk about other athletes about sports matters, even if they ask him for that?
3. One major issue (I believe) in our societies is that once somebody goes to prison, that is never forgotten. A large number of these people then begin a cycle of terror: they cannot return to society not because they don't want to, but because they are never allowed. They therefore become a permanent member of crime. How is this beneficial to society?
4. Stating that Tyson has not been a force for good is a bit misleading. A quick internet search for MIKE TYSON CHARITY yields 890K hits; the first page takes you to this page, listing the causes and charities he supports. He seems to be as active as many other people. Cause for beatification? No, but it seems he has been involved in some goodwill. And to state that he is capable of re-offending is something that seems speculative. Sure, he could. Then again, maybe he won't. Looking at all the years he has been out of prison, it seems unlikely he will head there again, any time soon.
5. Compare Tyson to another rapist, Roman Polanski. A man that has spent zero days in prison after raping a minor, evading justice all around the world while not only being able to work in his profession, but being downright celebrated for his craft*. The difference in treatment is blatant, even though I know we will agree that Polanski deserves, at a minimum, some time at the cross-bat hotel.

You know I am not a person of religious inclinations. And I recently posted about "who we really are". In that, I agreed that you judge people by their worst, not their best. But the point we are articulating is that as opposed to many others, Tyson did spend his time in prison and therefore some differences with other people of ill-pasts exist. And if the scarlet letter will even preclude you from giving an interview, the message being given to any young man that commits one crime is "don't stop". Because from now on, no matter what you do, you are a criminal to society. No matter what good you do.

Off Topic

* How come people forget PIRATES escapes me

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:28 am 1. Nobody said that the offense of the person disappears "magically". That is the reason society sets a punishment. The fault has disappeared so little that here we are, discussing an abuse case clearly in everybody's mind almost 3 decades ago.

^ By saying that the person who has committed the offence has a 'clean slate' as soon as their punishment has been served, you are in effect saying that all memory of and reference to their offence should disappear once their punishment has been served, and they should be viewed the same as one who has never committed such an offence. And to that, I say Absolute B.S. - for the reasons I stated - I believe clearly enough - in my previous post.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:28 am 2. But if the person will remain with a scarlet letter, then what is the point of a prison sentence?

^ A prison sentence - or any other punishment - in no way eradicates the offence. No matter what punishment is served, the person will always be the person who committed the offence. The offence, and its effect on other people, will never, ever disappear. Does the rape victim suddenly feel wonderful after her rapist has served his punishment? Of course not! So no-one should pretend that it has disappeared just because a punishment was served. Punishment never eradicates the offence.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:28 amTyson is not running for public office; he is not running an orphanage. He gave an interview. Should this be something he should not be allowed to do? He was a top athlete in his sport. Should he not be allowed to talk about other athletes about sports matters, even if they ask him for that?

^Seriously?? Do you seriously believe that people running for public office, or running an orphanage, etc. are the only circumstances where harm can be done? Hell, Tyson wasn't running an orphanage, or running for public office when he committed rape, assault, and other offences. But he still did those things. As long as there are potential victims - and they need not be orphans -, there exists the potential for someone to harm the potential victims.
And so everyone a person like Tyson comes into contact with deserves - and has every right - to know what terrible things he has done, so that they can decide how to treat him, or to avoid him, etc. Thus, the scarlet letter.

You ask Should Tyson not be allowed to talk about other athletes, other sports, etc?
He can talk about whatever he likes. But he should not be asked to talk about it in a public forum in an environment where he is asked to be viewed with respect, as if he never harmed anyone. He lost that right when he raped and assaulted people. You cannot separate a person from his or her actions. For good or for bad, we should be judged by our actions. It's up to each one of us whether we do good things or do bad things - and if we do bad things, one consequence is that it should never be forgotten or dismissed.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:28 am 3. One major issue (I believe) in our societies is that once somebody goes to prison, that is never forgotten. A large number of these people then begin a cycle of terror: they cannot return to society not because they don't want to, but because they are never allowed. They therefore become a permanent member of crime. How is this beneficial to society?

^ As I said - everyone should have a fair opportunity to become a positive member of society. But their offence should never be forgotten. It is part of who they are - part of their identity.
Just as someone who saved a suicidal person from jumping off a bridge keeps that as part of their identity for the remainder of their life, someone who commits rape, and/or assault, etc. keeps that as part of their identity for the remainder of their life.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:28 am 4. Stating that Tyson has not been a force for good is a bit misleading. A quick internet search for MIKE TYSON CHARITY yields 890K hits; the first page takes you to this page, listing the causes and charities he supports. He seems to be as active as many other people. Cause for beatification? No, but it seems he has been involved in some goodwill.

Again - Seriously?? Come on, ponchi, you're too intelligent to be this gullible. Can you say 'Public Relations B.S.'? Tyson knows that he has a bad reputation (well deserved, based on the harm he has done to people) - and so he hired a public relations agency to 'improve his image' through associations with charities, etc. It's the oldest trick in the book - come on!

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:28 am And to state that he is capable of re-offending is something that seems speculative. Sure, he could. Then again, maybe he won't. Looking at all the years he has been out of prison, it seems unlikely he will head there again, any time soon.

^ A tiger rarely changes his stripes. And I have seen enough of Tyson in the past 20 years to be quite confident in saying that he is very capable of re-offending. His nature is violent, he lacks respect (because he was never taught it), he has a hair-trigger temper... all the ingredients are there for him to re-offend. Perhaps he has already, and simply hasn't been caught.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:28 am 5. Compare Tyson to another rapist, Roman Polanski. A man that has spent zero days in prison after raping a minor, evading justice all around the world while not only being able to work in his profession, but being downright celebrated for his craft*. The difference in treatment is blatant, even though I know we will agree that Polanski deserves, at a minimum, some time at the cross-bat hotel.

^ Polanski deserves to be punished and treated in a similar way to Tyson. Actually, both of them deserve more punishment than Tyson has received.
And they deserve zero adoration.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:28 am You know I am not a person of religious inclinations. And I recently posted about "who we really are". In that, I agreed that you judge people by their worst, not their best. But the point we are articulating is that as opposed to many others, Tyson did spend his time in prison and therefore some differences with other people of ill-pasts exist. And if the scarlet letter will even preclude you from giving an interview, the message being given to any young man that commits one crime is "don't stop". Because from now on, no matter what you do, you are a criminal to society. No matter what good you do.

^ Conversely, what message does it send when a man convicted of rape and assault - among much other violent behaviour - is given the media spotlight in a context of adoration and respect? One could just as easily argue that this gives the message to young males that it's fine to go and 'have fun' raping and assaulting people, because after you're done having that 'fun', you will be respected.

People who have harmed others will always be able to find someone to give them a second chance. This should be done cautiously and with conditions attached - the offender has earned this by way of their harming another person. That should be absolutely non-negotiable.
But being given a second chance, and being given a second chance inside the spotlight of fame are two entirely different things. The spotlight of fame inherently carries with it a large degree of adoration and respect. Tyson forfeited his opportunity for that adoration and respect the second he decided to rape someone.
He deserves a second chance, like anyone else - with caution and conditions. But he doesn't deserve any spotlight or adoration or respect.

by ponchi101 Interesting. If you carry your sentence, and come back and do nothing, you are still the same criminal as before.
If you carry your sentence and get involved in some charitable action, it is Public Relations BS.
Tough crowd.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:24 pm Interesting. If you carry your sentence, and come back and do nothing, you are still the same criminal as before.
If you carry your sentence and get involved in some charitable action, it is Public Relations BS.
Tough crowd.

I was hoping for a much more detailed response from you - I'm disappointed. Your response is the equivalent of the dreaded 'We'll just agree to disagree'.

Do you honestly believe that Tyson's charity involvement is sincere?
This is a man who was described by several people over the course of several years as a violent monster (outside of the boxing ring).
And since his various convictions, there have been repeated signs that his demeanor hasn't changed. This is not surprising, as it's incredibly difficult to overcome the childhood that he had.

His public reputation was terrible - which was deserved. This would obviously greatly impact the amount of money he could make as a public figure - be it appearances at various venues, acting, commentary, what have you. So he (or someone close to him) hired a public relations agency to try to 're-work' his image. A large part of that was to get him 'involved' with charitable organizations, with the obvious idea being that this would make it more difficult for people to hate him, and would thus improve his public reputation, which in turn would lead to more public opportunities, and more money. I don't think it could be more obvious. 2+2=4.
Like so much when it comes to public figures, it's artificial. Fake. Because, tragically, the majority look only at the surface of things. And if the surface is 'pretty', people are satisfied.
Sadly, it seems to have worked here.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:36 pm
I was hoping for a much more detailed response from you - I'm disappointed. Your response is the equivalent of the dreaded 'We'll just agree to disagree'.

Do you honestly believe that Tyson's charity involvement is sincere?
This is a man who was described by several people over the course of several years as a violent monster (outside of the boxing ring).
And since his various convictions, there have been repeated signs that his demeanor hasn't changed. This is not surprising, as it's incredibly difficult to overcome the childhood that he had.

His public reputation was terrible - which was deserved. This would obviously greatly impact the amount of money he could make as a public figure - be it appearances at various venues, acting, commentary, what have you. So he (or someone close to him) hired a public relations agency to try to 're-work' his image. A large part of that was to get him 'involved' with charitable organizations, with the obvious idea being that this would make it more difficult for people to hate him, and would thus improve his public reputation, which in turn would lead to more public opportunities, and more money. I don't think it could be more obvious. 2+2=4.
Like so much when it comes to public figures, it's artificial. Fake. Because, tragically, the majority look only at the surface of things. And if the surface is 'pretty', people are satisfied.
Sadly, it seems to have worked here.

It is just that I was thinking more of the person that wrote:
Let's be more careful about accusing people of things unless there is proof, please..
Plus, sometimes I want to see if a third party comes in. As you know, I truly believe in our collective brainpower.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:28 am It is just that I was thinking more of the person that wrote:
Let's be more careful about accusing people of things unless there is proof, please..

There's also something to be said for using common sense.
And with Tyson and his 'charity work', it's quite obvious, and has dozens upon dozens of precedents in the 'entertainment industry'.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." ~ George Bernard Shaw

As a once famous tennis player said: "Image is everything." Image is only surface, of course. But that's all that most people look at. Never underestimate the lengths people will go to to improve their negative image - especially when it will bring them a lot more money.

by ponchi101 Side track.
I remember Tim Henman once being asked about being a good loser. He said he was not; he was a terrible loser, He hated losing, he just simply kept it to himself.
Which was sort of validating the point of the journalist.
You have made your position clear. I ask you: what would it take for somebody that has committed serious crimes, like the one we are discussing here, to redeem himself? Is that an impossible proposition?
The gist of my position is that he did his time, and therefore he should not be banned from giving an interview. He can go on with his life and, if people like Moratouglu want to talk to him, he is free to do so. Or should even actions like these be banned from him?

by JTContinental

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:32 pm

They announced today her appeal to lift the suspension was denied, as well.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:52 pm Side track.
I remember Tim Henman once being asked about being a good loser. He said he was not; he was a terrible loser, He hated losing, he just simply kept it to himself.
Which was sort of validating the point of the journalist.
You have made your position clear. I ask you: what would it take for somebody that has committed serious crimes, like the one we are discussing here, to redeem himself? Is that an impossible proposition?
The gist of my position is that he did his time, and therefore he should not be banned from giving an interview. He can go on with his life and, if people like Moratouglu want to talk to him, he is free to do so. Or should even actions like these be banned from him?

Your link fails to mention that Tyson physically assaulted (beat up) 7 prostitutes in 2009, when he was supposed to have been ‘rehabilitated’ - again. And there are almost surely other offences he’s committed that he got away with.

My position, clearly, is that people who have harmed others in a significant manner - and rape and assault are significant manners - should not be viewed or treated the same way as a person who has never committed such offences. In the case of Tyson, when he is put in the spotlight by being interviewed, or being in movies, etc., he is inherently being held in a high and respectable esteem - because that is the well-known common public perception of ‘famous’ people (sadly).

It’s not so much a matter of legislating whether interviewing the person publicly is permitted or not... it’s that it is in extremely poor taste to showcase someone who has raped and assaulted people in the same manner as one who has never harmed others. I echo the sentiments of mmmm8 and Megan (who has been curiously absent from this discussion which she originated). People who have done significant harm to others should never be treated as if they have done no harm. I’d like it if, as Tyson is being interviewed in the media, the caption under his name on screen reads ‘Boxing champion and convicted of rape, assault, and other violent crimes’ - the equivalent of a ‘scarlet letter’. Everyone should know who they are - and part of who they are is what they’ve done. Their offences should not be conveniently and deceptively hidden.

If I’m making the decision, the only way that Tyson would be in the public spotlight would be to talk about his offences and to encourage young people to pursue a healthier path than his. No movies, no interviews about any subject except his offences, no speaking engagements except those relating to his offences, etc. That would be the extent of his public life.

by ti-amie

If I'm reading this correctly she's asking them to suspend the suspension just because so that she can play the AO? Why would they do that?

by ti-amie Apparently Yastremska had to establish one of the three things listed here:

Otherwise she will face a 4 year ban. The ban would be 2 tears if she can prove she took the dope unintentionally.

Thanks to "meelis" on @TennisForum

by ponchi101 From what you are saying, it looks as if she is in deep trouble.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:35 pm If I'm reading this correctly she's asking them to suspend the suspension just because so that she can play the AO? Why would they do that?

Because she hasn't defended herself against the charges, so not letting her play AO can be seen as a punishment that she doesn't deserve when her case hasn't been fully heard.

Think of it like bail. She was charged with a crime on January 16th or thereabouts. She showed up and was arraigned on her charges but was released on bail. Court date on those charges has been set for March 1st. She tries to go to work on Feb. 8th and the company says, not so fast, you're been convicted. She says, no, I've been charged, but I didn't do it and my court date isn't until March. It's February, you have to let me work until I've been found guilty in court. That's basically what she's asking here.

All that being said. This process is never set up in favor of the athlete. It could use some revamping especially because they impose a "guilty until proven innocent" approach. They treat provisional rulings as definitive, when by their very nature, they are not. I don't see this going well for her in the long run, but she may very well get to play the Aussie Open.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU

Ahead of Australian Open start, Dayana Yastremska's latest doping case appeal denied

Associated Press

LONDON -- Top-30 tennis player Dayana Yastremska's latest appeal in her doping case was dismissed Wednesday by the Court of Arbitration for Sport, meaning she is still ineligible to return to competition.

Yastremska, 20, of Ukraine, traveled to Australia after being provisionally banned, hoping to be allowed to play in the Australian Open, which is scheduled to start Monday.

Yastremska originally was suspended in January for failing an out-of-competition drug test. She tested positive for mesterolone metabolite, a prohibited substance that can be used to boost testosterone.

She asked that her provisional penalty be set aside, which was denied. Then she appealed that ruling to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, which rejected that request.

Yastremska, who has denied using performance enhancers or prohibited substances, now must await the final resolution of her case.

A three-time WTA singles champion, Yastremska reached a career-high ranking of No. 21 a year ago and is now No. 29. Her best showing at a Grand Slam tournament was reaching the fourth round at Wimbledon in her main-draw debut in 2019.

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... eal-denied

by ponchi101 Is the case so clear that she can't even appeal? I am sort of lost here. Has she been suspended already, with no trial or revision of the case?

by ti-amie I think she wanted to play while being provisionally suspended. The "trial" is still to come. Whoever let her fly for free, courtesy of Tennis Australia, is also at fault here. She had no business on that plane.

by ti-amie

by the Moz We'll see if she makes it 'out there'

by meganfernandez

the Moz wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:07 pm We'll see if she makes it 'out there'

She'll post.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:04 pm
the Moz wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:07 pm We'll see if she makes it 'out there'
She'll post.

Yes, she'll post - that's easy.

The question is 'will she PLAY'?

by ti-amie I would like to know who these people are and how old they are because...

by ti-amie

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:50 pm I would like to know who these people are and how old they are because...

The way I see it - and I was following tennis when Martina was at her peak -, while tennis may have been less physically demanding back then (and even that is debatable), the players back then were not spoiled and pampered nearly as much as today's players are. They didn't have travelling 'entourages' of 15 people; didn't have physiotherapists attached to them at the hip, analyzing every movement; weren't given absolutely everything they wanted by tournament organizers and sponsors; weren't chauffeured around in luxury vehicles...

Many top players (in the top 30, let's say) also played doubles regularly back then - and that was when doubles scoring was normal - 2 out of 3 full sets, and 3 out of 5 full sets in Majors - not this no-ad, no 3rd set garbage of today.

So... yeah - Martina more than deserves her place among the greats - as do the others of that time.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Both Martina, in the WTA, and Lendl, in the ATP, changed the game for what it is today. They elevated the training and nutrition of every athlete because if you did not train like them, you had no chance.
Evert got it. Martine made her get in the best shape of her life.
Story:
When Sampras was coming up, Gulliskon sent him one week to train with Lendl. Upon return, Sampras was destroyed. Gullikson called Lendl and asked him what he had done to Pete. "Nothing. I just showed him what he needs to do to be his best" (something like that). Lendl set the standard.
And if any person as much as complains about Martina: talk about one pioneering gay icon. The crap she had to put up with would not be believed today.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:54 pm

This is ridiculous. Wasn't Craig Tilley pretending he cared about doing the best for player's health and training? And he couldn't ensure that they got one of the later scheduled first round matches?

by Deuce Some questions about the automatic line calling...

Can it call foot faults?
What about centre line foot faults (which are, unfortunately, rarely called even with linespeople)?

Are those little cameras on both sides of the court, or just on one side?

How can it call a sideline ball out if the camera is blocked by the player? Even if there is another camera on the other side of the net, it would have to look through the net, which is not good.

Not to mention that the blocking issue is even worse in doubles. (Have they been using it in doubles?)

by mmmm8 Yes, I've seen footfaults called by the automatic line-calling.

I think but haven't confirmed that there are many cameras, including behind the player

by ponchi101 They must have multiple cameras, otherwise there is no way this works.
Having watched a lot of ATP cup, there have been a lot of calls that were questioned by the players. I really don't know how accurate the system is but like to see what the players think. Plus, I also mentioned that it seems that the system is not as quick as humans when calling the shots, especially serves. That, I gather, could be corrected.

by ti-amie So will there be a tennis future where the chair umpire has no idea how to umpire because he/she never learned how to watch the movement of the ball or are chair umpires going to be replaced too? Someone posted a picture on Twitter last night of Eva Asderaki during her lines calling days. If you don't have that background how do you do your job?

by ponchi101 That had not crossed my mind, but it seems that indeed that could be the case.
Most likely we will get to the stage in which the chair umpire will be just a software operator. And then they will be replaced too.
I said it: put a black monolith there, next to the net. And DO give it HAL's voice. Let's see any of the whining kids go after it: "I'm afraid I can't do that, Nick. It would put the mission in danger!"

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:07 pm So will there be a tennis future where the chair umpire has no idea how to umpire because he/she never learned how to watch the movement of the ball or are chair umpires going to be replaced too? Someone posted a picture on Twitter last night of Eva Asderaki during her lines calling days. If you don't have that background how do you do your job?

^ Yes, that's a good point.
Linespeople will continue to be used in Challengers and Junior events, etc., and maybe on the outside courts of Masters events, for the next few years - simply because it would cost too much to equip all courts at all tournaments with the automatic technology.
I imagine chair umpires will endure even longer - if only to have someone on the court who 'maintains order' (looking for coaching, time code violations, things that automatic line calling is oblivious to like hindrances, double bounces, etc., and any interactions with the players that are necessary during the course of a match).
But, indeed, after all the linespeople positions are gone, how will chair umpires be groomed?

As for the current automated line calling - hawkeye live... I know that hawkeye/shotspot have various cameras placed around the stadium (which would be more difficult to do on outer courts where there is no stadium) - but does hawkeye live use those same cameras placed throughout the stadium? I see that there are cameras at court level with hawkeye live...

I much prefer having people calling the lines than automation - for many reasons.
Just like I prefer to have people playing tennis than to watch a tennis video game.

by ponchi101

Deuce wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:56 pm ...
I imagine chair umpires will endure even longer - if only to have someone on the court who 'maintains order' (looking for coaching, time code violations, things that automatic line calling is oblivious to like hindrances, double bounces, etc., and any interactions with the players that are necessary during the course of a match).
But, indeed, after all the linespeople positions are gone, how will chair umpires be groomed?
...

Actually, that would be something I would leave to the automatic systems. The double bounce can be picked by machines better, I would think.

by Deuce Yes, double bonces are notoriously difficult to determine - for any umpire, as well as for the player directly involved and the opponent. It could be picked up by a super slow motion camera, perhaps - but that would require that a human look at the video to make the determination.

Unless they put some sort of microchip inside the balls, I can't see any other automation picking up a double bounce more reliably than a human.

by ponchi101 The chair umpire is sitting HIGH on the court. He may be the one with the worst view of a possible double bounce. And double bounces AWAY from the chair are notoriously difficult.
Just saying.

by dmforever In case you want a little Italian lesson...The singularly worst call in the history of tennis. The worst.

Kevin

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:41 pm The chair umpire is sitting HIGH on the court. He may be the one with the worst view of a possible double bounce. And double bounces AWAY from the chair are notoriously difficult.
Just saying.

I know it's difficult to call. But a chair umpire at least is there to make a decision. If there's no chair umpire (and no microchip in the ball), how can it be determined? Just leaving it to the players to settle between themselves is obviously not practical...

I have a linesman friend who thinks they should put back the net judges, and that one of their responsibilities should be to determine double bounces. Maybe that would sort of work...

by mmmm8 Like referees in other sports where some automation has come in, umpires would still have an important function to play for enforcing rules around conduct (which of course they don't always do now), determining things like racquet touches, sportsmanship, etc.

by Deuce The voices used for the automated 'Out' calls are the recorded voices of front line medical workers in Australia. That's interesting.
It would be even more interesting if, instead of simply saying 'Out', the voice would say things like "Is that the best you can do?", "How could you miss that?", etc.

One thing that's missing with the automatic line calling is some sort of visual indication. With linespeople, you see the arm go out. But with the automated system, there is no visual indication.
Having a visual indication would help hearing impaired people, as well as those who watch with the sound off. I think it could psychologically help the players, as well.

They could have a red light illuminate when a ball is called out - and position the red light where the linespeople usually are.

No matter what they do with the automated systems, though, I will always prefer human linespeople.

by mmmm8 I know typically the electronic scoreboards display the "OUT" call in addition to the audio. Doesn't have viewers at home generally, but should help the players and those in the stands.

by Deuce Only on very close calls - and it's done about 15 seconds after the shot is hit.

I'd prefer a red light that appears at the same time the call is made vocally.

.

by ponchi101 I don't think the players will not ask for some changes to the system. The lateness of the call and perhaps, indeed, the lack of a visual.
But it will be like everything. We will get used to it, us foggies that still want gentlemen wearing a tie calling the lines will move on and watch old matches in our VCR's, and pretty soon everybody will be all smiles about this. It will get ingrained in the game.
Like at Wimbledon. Progress is only achieved when it is no longer perceived.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:39 pm I don't think the players will not ask for some changes to the system. The lateness of the call and perhaps, indeed, the lack of a visual.
But it will be like everything. We will get used to it, us foggies that still want gentlemen wearing a tie calling the lines will move on and watch old matches in our VCR's, and pretty soon everybody will be all smiles about this. It will get ingrained in the game.
Like at Wimbledon. Progress is only achieved when it is no longer perceived.

I don't like that idea of something visual for line calls. It could be problematic - the player has to be looking in that direction, players might be understandably tempted to shift their gaze that way and take their eye off the ball, and there's potential to mistake a glare or reflection for a light coming on. Something audible is better because it's universally accessible on the court - you don't have to be looking in any one direction to receive the message. I think they'll get used to the lag if it can't be fixed. A late call doesn't have negative consequences, it's just a little annoying and hopefully it can be improved. It's only late by a split second. It's not drastic. Just exactly enough time for the player and fan to think "wasn't that out?" Players are just going to have to play those balls if they don't hear the call before they swing. It's not a big deal to me.

by ponchi101 About Sinner (post above): That's the mentality. He will go far.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:08 pm About Sinner (post above): That's the mentality. He will go far.

Chances are he'll have a solid career, as long as he gets lucky with injuries and other life events.

by Suliso Possibly the next golden generation - Sinner, FAA, Musetti, Alcaraz

by ponchi101 Next golden generation will be players winning 4 slams each.
We are going to have to find a new metal to nominate these guys.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:20 pm I don't like that idea of something visual for line calls. It could be problematic - the player has to be looking in that direction, players might be understandably tempted to shift their gaze that way and take their eye off the ball, and there's potential to mistake a glare or reflection for a light coming on. Something audible is better because it's universally accessible on the court - you don't have to be looking in any one direction to receive the message. I think they'll get used to the lag if it can't be fixed. A late call doesn't have negative consequences, it's just a little annoying and hopefully it can be improved. It's only late by a split second. It's not drastic. Just exactly enough time for the player and fan to think "wasn't that out?" Players are just going to have to play those balls if they don't hear the call before they swing. It's not a big deal to me.

I meant that it would be good to have a visual indication (for the reasons I stated above) in addition to the audible indication, NOT instead of.
If the visual had no value, the linespeople would not have been extending their arms on out calls all this while.

by Deuce

Deuce wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:23 am Some questions about the automatic line calling...

Can it call foot faults?
What about centre line foot faults (which are, unfortunately, rarely called even with linespeople)?

Are those little cameras on both sides of the court, or just on one side?

How can it call a sideline ball out if the camera is blocked by the player? Even if there is another camera on the other side of the net, it would have to look through the net, which is not good.

Not to mention that the blocking issue is even worse in doubles. (Have they been using it in doubles?)

Brad Gilbert and Jason Goodall on ESPN just asked the open question of whether the automatic line calling system can call foot faults or not - and if it can, how does it call them?

So even those guys don't know, and are questioning.

by ti-amie I was watching Poots vs Sloane and I really am not a fan of no lines people. Every sport needs a bit of uncertainty, of human error affecting the outcome of the contest. With the NFL it's measuring to see if a team got a first down or not. That sport, along with baseball and basketball, have kept the human factor in and the checking of a call only adds to the suspense. A machine calling lines, even with, for viewers at home, the line shot, just doesn't have the same feeling.

I guess I'm an old fogie.

by ponchi101 Also.
I am waiting for the first time in which the system will crash down when it is 5-5 in the third set tie-break. In, like, a semi. Let's see how quickly can they recruit 7 people from the stands. Without glasses.

by the Moz It would be a shame if electronic line calling became common practice.

by meganfernandez

the Moz wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:25 pm It would be a shame if electronic line calling became common practice.

Well it's when, not if. We'll see about smaller events. Not sure how expensive this is. Clay might hold out.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:15 pm I was watching Poots vs Sloane and I really am not a fan of no lines people. Every sport needs a bit of uncertainty, of human error affecting the outcome of the contest. With the NFL it's measuring to see if a team got a first down or not. That sport, along with baseball and basketball, have kept the human factor in and the checking of a call only adds to the suspense. A machine calling lines, even with, for viewers at home, the line shot, just doesn't have the same feeling.

I guess I'm an old fogie.

Nah, you're not. These things make tennis special. We don't want a fully automated experience. (WE don't. People who are currently under 20 might. They might want to see Wimbledon with the full Twitch treatment.) But I'm not that sentimental about line judges. They didn't add anything to the show for me. Just some pageantry, some polish. It's quaint. But I don't miss them. I want to see beautiful tennis battles.

by Liamvalid Would Djokovic have been kicked out of the open for hitting an electronic line judge camera?

by meganfernandez

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:21 pm Would Djokovic have been kicked out of the open for hitting an electronic line judge camera?

Probably not. Just ball abuse or something. (It was still the right call.)

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Well, we said it here first.
TAT. Where people REALLY know their tennis.

by ti-amie This is cold.

by skatingfan I can't help feeling that Simon would feel differently if he hadn't lost so badly.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:15 pm I was watching Poots vs Sloane and I really am not a fan of no lines people. Every sport needs a bit of uncertainty, of human error affecting the outcome of the contest. With the NFL it's measuring to see if a team got a first down or not. That sport, along with baseball and basketball, have kept the human factor in and the checking of a call only adds to the suspense. A machine calling lines, even with, for viewers at home, the line shot, just doesn't have the same feeling.

I guess I'm an old fogie.

There is truly some drama missing without the challenge system in place. I was okay with it in Cincy as almost a test case, but was very happy it was back at the US Open, and am very disappointed to see it now. For me, the Aussie Open is the place where of course we should have linespeople there. In this unmasked, mostly unconcerned covid crowd, we can't get linespeople? Makes me worry we're going in this direction and I think it's a lesser TV product without it. Also, pretty sure it'll be a lesser in-person experience. At the USO, everyone turns to the screens with anticipation to see the results and I'd assume it's the same at most events, it adds something to the experience.

by mmmm8 But the challenge system is just a few years old itself, hardly a tradition. Yes, sometimes it's exciting but it can also be a distraction from the match. I've always found it to be more entertaining for casual fans. Sometimes I find the crowd ooohs and ahhhs annoying. I do think the challenges added an interesting psychological element to watch (how players use them), but it's not a core part of a match to me.

As long as tennis players and chair umpires are still humans, the players will throw tantrums at chair umpires, so there's your human element.

(I haven't made my mind up about no line umpires, I guess I just found the challenges presentation is a bit gimmicky.)

by ptmcmahon

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:59 am This is cold.

No kidding. That old man isn't as old as Hsieh!

by ponchi101 Just to say. The umpires vs line calling systems should also go into the Techno Babble topic. Very much in par about how our interaction and integration with technology affects us. A long topic.
(Being discussed in a technological platform. Food for thought).

(Edited because I forgot one word)

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:56 pm But the challenge system is just a few years old itself, hardly a tradition. Yes, sometimes it's exciting but it can also be a distraction from the match. I've always found it to be more entertaining for casual fans. Sometimes I find the crowd ooohs and ahhhs annoying. I do think the challenges added an interesting psychological element to watch (how players use them), but it's not a core part of a match to me.

As long as tennis players and chair umpires are still humans, the players will throw tantrums at chair umpires, so there's your human element.

(I haven't made my mind up about no line umpires, I guess I just found the challenges presentation is a bit gimmicky.)

Hawkeye has been around for 20 years now!

Hard to believe. It's not a tradition like handshakes (errr...) or the coin flip, but it's definitely a staple of the modern professional game. I really like it - mostly for the increased fairness, but it also lets the players move on and not dwell on what they think are bad calls. As far as the entertainment value, I like knowing whether it was in or out and finding out if I was right (based on what I saw). The big complaint originally was that it would take too much time and slow down the game. I don't think it has.

As far as a fun part of the collective spectator experience in a stadium, I don't think it adds much. But it doesn't hurt.

by meganfernandez https://www.si.com/tennis/2021/02/10/no ... aily-cover

by ponchi101 Totally confused.
He reminds me of a good friend that is like that. The power of, let's say, mirrors. Pyramids. Food is divided in two groups: super powerful, all healing, perfect aliments or poison. Science is crap; the REAL science is not the one we see. THEY are hiding it from us.
We play tennis. He beats me always. He is a good person, but I find it so hard to understand.

Novak Djokovic. I believe he will end with the Slam record. And man, this is one guy I will not miss one bit, once he retires. And sure, future president of Serbia. Bet on it.

by dmforever

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:38 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:59 am This is cold.

No kidding. That old man isn't as old as Hsieh!

That made me chortle out loud. Thank you and YES YES YES!!!

Kevin

by the Moz I support whatever measures it takes to stop that 4 corner arms thing Novak does. So dumb.

by mmmm8

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:52 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:56 pm But the challenge system is just a few years old itself, hardly a tradition. Yes, sometimes it's exciting but it can also be a distraction from the match. I've always found it to be more entertaining for casual fans. Sometimes I find the crowd ooohs and ahhhs annoying. I do think the challenges added an interesting psychological element to watch (how players use them), but it's not a core part of a match to me.

As long as tennis players and chair umpires are still humans, the players will throw tantrums at chair umpires, so there's your human element.

(I haven't made my mind up about no line umpires, I guess I just found the challenges presentation is a bit gimmicky.)
Hawkeye has been around for 20 years now! Hard to believe. It's not a tradition like handshakes (errr...) or the coin flip, but it's definitely a staple of the modern professional game. I really like it - mostly for the increased fairness, but it also lets the players move on and not dwell on what they think are bad calls. As far as the entertainment value, I like knowing whether it was in or out and finding out if I was right (based on what I saw). The big complaint originally was that it would take too much time and slow down the game. I don't think it has.

As far as a fun part of the collective spectator experience in a stadium, I don't think it adds much. But it doesn't hurt.

Hawkeye, yes. The Challenge System was first tried out on tour in 2006

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:42 pm Just to say. The umpires vs line calling systems should go into the Techno Babble topic. Very much in par about how our interaction and integration with technology affects us. A long topic.
(Being discussed in a technological platform. Food for thought).

No. It's a tennis topic.
It's in its proper place.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:52 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:56 pm But the challenge system is just a few years old itself, hardly a tradition. Yes, sometimes it's exciting but it can also be a distraction from the match. I've always found it to be more entertaining for casual fans. Sometimes I find the crowd ooohs and ahhhs annoying. I do think the challenges added an interesting psychological element to watch (how players use them), but it's not a core part of a match to me.

As long as tennis players and chair umpires are still humans, the players will throw tantrums at chair umpires, so there's your human element.

(I haven't made my mind up about no line umpires, I guess I just found the challenges presentation is a bit gimmicky.)
Hawkeye has been around for 20 years now! Hard to believe. It's not a tradition like handshakes (errr...) or the coin flip, but it's definitely a staple of the modern professional game. I really like it - mostly for the increased fairness, but it also lets the players move on and not dwell on what they think are bad calls. As far as the entertainment value, I like knowing whether it was in or out and finding out if I was right (based on what I saw). The big complaint originally was that it would take too much time and slow down the game. I don't think it has.

As far as a fun part of the collective spectator experience in a stadium, I don't think it adds much. But it doesn't hurt.

But with hawkeye/shotspot, you still don't know whether the ball was in or out, because it's not perfectly accurate. It's merely an estimate, based on the cameras. If even one camera isn't calibrated perfectly, you won't get a perfect result.

One of your reasons for liking hawkeye/shotspot is one of the reasons I don't like it: because players tend to 'move on' and not dwell on what they believe are bad calls. I like seeing how players react to what they feel are bad calls. It's an element that must be overcome - like the sun or the wind. I like to see how different players handle that. Those that handle it best have an advantage - just like those who handle the sun and the wind best.
It also helps to reveal the individual characters and personalities of the players on court. This was my argument against it when I had a long conversation with Gayle Bradshaw (head of officiating for the ATP) about it when hawkeye/shotspot was first introduced.

And, yes, the challenge system is mostly a gimmick, as m8 says. It's the equivalent of a fancy light show at a music concert. At a concert, the music is supposed to be the substance. That's disturbed and altered by the fancy light shows. At a tennis match, the tennis is still the main substance - but the challenge system alters the flow of the match. It's an artificial addition. It was created as a show for the fans, not to make the tennis better.

by ti-amie

I was watching...

by ptmcmahon It's partly implying that he started winning once the pandemic started and no one was watching in person. Although, it also expects you to guess Djokovic won the most tournaments last year too.

by meganfernandez The author is the former NYT Magazine editor, I believe. Didn't learn very much about Rublev except the technical breakdown of his forehand force, which may or may not be correct because it's just the author's observations (he plays and has taken a lot of expensive lessons, but I still don't trust his analysis - if he interviewed knowledgeable sources, he didn't say).

"No one" refers to no/few spectators and low ratings. US Open ratings were down 45%.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:18 pm

I was watching...

by ponchi101 I was watching too. It makes it sound like he was the fourth place finisher at the Siberian Idetarod.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:17 pm I was watching too. It makes it sound like he was the fourth place finisher at the Siberian Idetarod.

You guys don't understand magazines.

by Deuce Prince must be in some serious trouble.
They had already seen a decline in players using their racquets when Swiatek just left.
They have a player who wins a Major, which is rare for Prince - and they lose her just a few months later.

Swiatek is now with Technifibre - the company whose racquets she used as a child.
(If they were creative, they'd name her current racquet the 'Swiateknifibre'

. )

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:46 am Prince must be in some serious trouble.
They had already seen a decline in players using their racquets when Swiatek just left.
They have a player who wins a Major, which is rare for Prince - and they lose her just a few months later.

Swiatek is now with Technifibre - the company whose racquets she used as a child.
(If they were creative, they'd name her current racquet the 'Swiateknifibre' . )

Yeah evidently Prince couldn't afford to keep her. When I was growing up, Prince was THE racket to use... I didn't even know they still make rackets that pros use until I heard about Swiateknefibre using it.

by ponchi101 Prince has never kept their players. They simply do not want to pay them that much.
Historically, they have let go Agassi and Sharapova. A lesser player, Ferrero, was also let go. Sole players that I can believe played their whole career with a Prince are Sabatini and now John Isner. They even let go David Ferrer after a full life of playing with their frames.
They are not in trouble. It is their M.O. Make you big, and when you are too big, they let you go.

by Deuce Prince made one of the best racquets ever, in my opinion - the Magnesium Pro 90. It looked like something you find at K-Mart, with its nylon 'yoke', but it had a wonderful feel. Pat Cash won Wimbledon with it, and Cedric Pioline made the U.S. Open Final with it.
If Prince still made the Mag 90, I'd still be using it - for sure.
No amount of money could get me to change from a racquet that I love.

Wasn't Michael Chang also with Prince for all - or at least most - of his career?
Maybe Jana Novotna, too?

I remember in the mid 2000s, James Blake had just switched from Prince to Dunlop, and he made a marketing appearance in a local sports store for Dunlop. I went, and as a joke, I picked up a Prince frame with Blake's photo on it that was on a store rack, and asked the Dunlop rep if James could please sign it.
The rep panicked - as marketing reps tend to do - and said "No, no, no... he can't do that. Please put that away!"
These reps take themselves far too seriously.

by ponchi101 You are correct. Chang and Novotna did play all their careers with Prince.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:29 am

Which match?

by ti-amie Osaka vs Mugu

by ponchi101 The rule can be easily enforced. One tournament official sitting in the players box. Lift finger, chair umpire calls the violation.
But I agree with Shriver in that, if you are not going to enforce it, take it out. Allow the coaches to become the 3rd base coach of baseball.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:16 am The rule can be easily enforced. One tournament official sitting in the players box. Lift finger, chair umpire calls the violation.
But I agree with Shriver in that, if you are not going to enforce it, take it out. Allow the coaches to become the 3rd base coach of baseball.

The official will need to speak the coach's language. They could also make the penalty harsh - one warning, next violation banned from the match, next banned from all the tournament's matches, next banned from the next tournament's matches, and so on.

by ponchi101 You speak Russian? Because I don't, and I can easily tell when papa Kenin is coaching Sofia. And when Mama Shapo is coaching Dennis.
It is not that hard to see when somebody is being coached

Just hire a few naziPonchis that really dislike that attitude and let them roll. Heck, I loved Henin and I would still would have kicked Carlos off the box after the third game of the match.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:46 am You speak Russian? Because I don't, and I can easily tell when papa Kenin is coaching Sofia. And when Mama Shapo is coaching Dennis.
It is not that hard to see when somebody is being coached
Just hire a few naziPonchis that really dislike that attitude and let them roll. Heck, I loved Henin and I would still would have kicked Carlos off the box after the third game of the match.

You might suspect someone is being coached, but if you're going to levy penalties, you have to prove it - and in many cases that will mean documenting what was said. That would have to be the standard for any harsher penalty than what they have now.

I loved Henin, too. But coaching doesn't bother me. Don't love that they're flouting a rule but I don't like the rule and wish they allowed coaching, so I really don't care.

by Deuce Come on, people... they're never going to crack down on coaching now, as they've had on-court coaching for a few years now (only for the women, which is rather embarrassing for the message it sends that women need coaching more than the men do), AND they've decided to allow coaching in non-Majors (again, only for the women).

Obviously, being strict about it in Majors would send even more of a mixed message than the one being sent now, which is itself quite mixed.

by ti-amie

What do we think? I agree with this observation.

by ponchi101 I think he has great speed, and a really good forehand.
Nobody is asking him to beat Roger at Wimbledon. He is being asked to beat a qualifier that he had 2-0 in sets.

by Deuce No... that 'need a particular weapon' stuff is just cliché crap.
Felix's game is good enough to be top 10. But he isn't mentally mature enough to be there yet.

Whether he will evolve to achieve the mental maturity needed to be a regular member of the top 10 or not, only time will tell. I thought his solid win over Denis a couple of days ago would be a step in that direction, but today shows otherwise. Because he's still young, it's still 2 steps forward, 2 steps back at this point.

We'll have to wait to see what the future holds.

by ti-amie I was right, sort of, about Hsieh's lack of a clothing contract.

by ponchi101 Sickening.

by Deuce That's a wonderful story from McNamee.
I can identify, because I, too, can literally go years without breaking a string (although I alternate about 4 racquets). And I don't like the way a racquet plays right after restringing it (and I string them myself). It takes a while for the strings to settle before I'm comfortable with it.

But I can recognize a broken string right away

.

by Suliso I think there is a point about FAA lacking weapons and hence often losing from winning positions. He'll probably be a top 10 player and for some time, but what about his potential to be a multi Slam winner? I have my doubts... I personally are putting my virtual money on Sinner instead in the under 21 group. Also very intrigued about Alcaraz, but there it's too early to judge.

by ponchi101 We all agree about Sinner, that he is for real. But we also agree that it will be a long time before we see a NEW 5 slam winner. Talent wise we also agree that Kyrgios seemed to be the guy that could do it, but we know that story too.
FAA may win a slam or two. He may not. The field is going to be very open and, after all, somebody has to win any slam that is played. But we have to stop comparing all these guys to the current big three or even the previous crop. Those days are gone.
I put FAA down for one slam sometime in the next ten years. Notice this: Zverev is already 23, with one Slam final appearance. And everybody was equally sold on him as we are on Sinner.

by Suliso

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:47 pm We all agree about Sinner, that he is for real. But we also agree that it will be a long time before we see a NEW 5 slam winner. Talent wise we also agree that Kyrgios seemed to be the guy that could do it, but we know that story too.
FAA may win a slam or two. He may not. The field is going to be very open and, after all, somebody has to win any slam that is played. But we have to stop comparing all these guys to the current big three or even the previous crop. Those days are gone.
I put FAA down for one slam sometime in the next ten years. Notice this: Zverev is already 23, with one Slam final appearance. And everybody was equally sold on him as we are on Sinner.

I don't actually fully agree. It won't be that long at all. About 5-7 years till someone other than you know who will have 5 Slams. Once all three are retired things will start accumulating quickly.

Look at the post Serena women's game. Looked a bit bleak at one stage, but Naomi already has 3 Slams and would be no great surprise if she were to reach 5 this year.

by ti-amie

by Deuce Andy Murray lost in the Final of a Challenger in Italy yesterday. 2-6, 4-6.

by Ribbons Props to him for trying.

by ti-amie The mind is willing...

I hope he is able to come to terms with his situation soon.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:47 pm We all agree about Sinner, that he is for real. But we also agree that it will be a long time before we see a NEW 5 slam winner. Talent wise we also agree that Kyrgios seemed to be the guy that could do it, but we know that story too.
FAA may win a slam or two. He may not. The field is going to be very open and, after all, somebody has to win any slam that is played. But we have to stop comparing all these guys to the current big three or even the previous crop. Those days are gone.
I put FAA down for one slam sometime in the next ten years. Notice this: Zverev is already 23, with one Slam final appearance. And everybody was equally sold on him as we are on Sinner.

I think Thiem has 4 more slams in him.

by ti-amie

by JTContinental I read an article today about Jessica Pegula, and in it, David Witt mentioned that Jessica, Shelby Rogers, and Jen Brady are besties off court, and have really been pushing each other.

by Ribbons Every now and then something in ELLE (February 2021) makes me wonder what the writers/editors have been smoking . . .

elle tennis wtf by Peg Duthie, on Flickr

by ponchi101 Smoking? That stuff has to be injected at a minimum.
Three tennis balls for $105? WTF?

by Suliso

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:16 pm Smoking? That stuff has to be injected at a minimum.
Three tennis balls for $105? WTF?

It's a Birkin bag equivalent for tennis balls. Equally pointless...

by ponchi101 And... should I know what a Birkin bag is? Should I worry?

by Suliso

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:20 pm And... should I know what a Birkin bag is? Should I worry?

Ask your girlfriend

by MJ2004

ponchi101 wrote:And... should I know what a Birkin bag is? Should I worry?

I only know because Gilmore Girls.

by ponchi101 Tony Nadal, MD:
In this regard, Toni Nadal gave his opinion and the number one in the world was not pictured in the best way. "It is surprising that Djokovic is injured, to the point of having doubts whether to continue in the tournament and then (the injuries) disappear overnight," said Rafa's former coach in a column published in the newspaper El País .

Djokovic stated that he did not know if he would play his match against Raonic, which did not go down well in the tennis world. "I will not be the one who questions whether his pains are true or not, something common in an athlete, but he probably conceals them less than he should," concluded Toni Nadal.

(Google/my translation)

by Deuce Nice article about Su-Wei Hsieh, and being freely who you are, rather than trying to fit the mold...

https://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2021/02 ... pen/92938/

.

by mmmm8

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:36 pm I think Thiem has 4 more slams in him.

As I find him sleep-inducing, I do hope he keeps them inside him

by Suliso Who's most likely to reach 5 Slams on either tour? I think it's Osaka and the competition is not even close.

by mmmm8 I think it will be more than one of the currently active players but I if I had to choose one, I'd also put my money on Osaka.

by ponchi101 Sure, Osaka. Only two away and far from her peak.
Kerber, with three Slams, is also the one closest. But very hard to see her getting one more, lest two.
Garbi? I really wonder how she recovers from those two blown MP. And she is 27 already.
The decade is just starting. Barring absolute insanity, one decade will be 40 slams. Nobody reaching five means at least 10 winners in this decade*. So somebody will, or we will see the absolute most even era in tennis.
Take out the big three, and how many Slam winners are there THAT HAVE NOT RETIRED? Murray, Stan, Delpo, Cilic and Thiem. I doubt any reaches 5.
On the women's? Serena and Venus out and you have: Kerber, Osaka, Halep, Garbi, Swiatek, Kenin, Sloane, Andrescuu, Kvitova, Barty, Vika, Sveta, Ostapenko and Stosur.
Nobody getting five will mean a lot of those last in the women's list, and on the ATP people like Karatsev, Felix, Dennis et al breaking through for a couple of weeks, over and over.

Off Topic

* Nine won't do. It would mean that at least one person will get more than 4, just to complete the 40.

by Suliso One could just look at previous eras. There is usually 5-8 Slams won by the best player of a given era. The current era with 15+ is of course and exception.

by ponchi101 Exactly. And the longevity of this group is exceptional. Serena winning on Saturday will mean a span of almost 22 years, and wins in 4 different decades. Regardless of how you count decades.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie PMac tried to institute a program for young US players to learn to play on clay when he was in charge of player development for the USTA but he the US tennis establishment fought him tooth and nail. Maybe it would be different now.

by Suliso Wich American women are really good on clay?

by ti-amie Two of the three best American women played earlier. The USTA will never forgive itself for deciding Osaka wasn't worth their time.

Gilbert was talking about US men. Women's tennis is always an afterthought in the US.

by nelslus I think what could make the women's game all the more interesting is that, while it is more than conceivable that Naomi can own the Aussie and US Opens for years, with ongoing good health and desire- how she will end up doing at Roland Garros and Wimbledon remains a mystery. Obviously, there is nowhere near enough info concerning how Osaka's career will end up being at Wimbledon and Roland Garros. And, heck, if self-proclaimed "Cow on Ice" on clay Sharapova can find a way to win two Roland Garros titles- anything is possible. But, Naomi has been a non-factor so far at the French. And, the best match I've seen of hers at Wimbledon was when she lost to Venus in 2017. So, there's room for a number of WTA players to win at those two Slams, at least for now.

by ponchi101 While I agree that playing on clay is useful, getting American kids to play on clay to become better is a myth.
Look at France. A very large tennis population, all of whom play on clay. How many great champions are coming out of France? The last one was Mauresmo, and it has been a while now. If clay were the solution then France, Spain and Italy would have been perennial producers of champions. Italy is now looking at a very good crop but let's remember they have produced nothing in have a century. Adriano Pannatta was their last slam champion and that was basically in the Pleistocene. Spain, for all their "Armada" talk, has not produced anybody since Nadal. Lots of good players, but from GOOD to SLAM CHAMPION (which is what the USA wants) there is a big difference.
My $0.02: the reality is that in American, tennis is an elitist sport. The comparison that needs to be drawn is Argentina, where clay is the surface of choice but there is only a small segment of the population that can afford to play tennis. In America, the group sports take the best athletes and only a small segment sticks with tennis.
Why are American women doing well? Because there are no other sports that can compete with the financial rewards that tennis can offer women. For women in the USA, tennis is a great opportunity. So they take it. Boys in the USA are looking at Mahones and Lebron instead.

by Suliso I think there is also a great deal of pure randomness as far as producing Slam winners is concerned. Tennis hasn't become any more or less elitist since 90-ties and the golden generation of Sampras, Agassi, Chang, Courier. Look at Canada - produced nothing ever and now great talents on both sides.

by ponchi101 I forgot who of the L. American commentators said if: good players are made. Champions are born. Look at your Switzerland. Three damn great players in a span of 20 years (Roger, Stan and Martina). Nothing before, nothing after. Germany: Becker, Stich, Graf and now Kerber. very little before, very little after. Even Serbia is a bit of a mirage. Djokovic and Ivanovic as Slam champions, and then a lot of very good players but no other Slam champions.
Australia's drought is also worth considering.
What you say. The next great champion may come out of nowhere. Randomly.

by Suliso I was just thinking that in at least one aspect Serena will likely be like many of us. You really, really want something, work very hard to get it, but in the end have to accept that it's not going to happen. In her case it would be those 24 Slams.

by ponchi101 It will happen to all. Roger's 21 may not be there. Rafa's 2nd Aussie neither.
That is the reason that for us Pete's fans his last slam was so great. The last time we saw him he won his match, and he won his very last point at the net, hitting a winning volley.
For Serena's fans, these last losses are not enjoyable.

by Liamvalid I’d like to think I saw enough from Serena to get 24 at Wimbledon, but that may be wishful thinking

by Suliso

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:04 pm I’d like to think I saw enough from Serena to get 24 at Wimbledon, but that may be wishful thinking

The very last chance, but I find even that unlikely.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:21 am Two of the three best American women played earlier. The USTA will never forgive itself for deciding Osaka wasn't worth their time.

Gilbert was talking about US men. Women's tennis is always an afterthought in the US.

So Gilbert was saying this on the broadcast the other day and Patrick was commentating with him. Brad says all this, and Patrick says basically yes, good idea. Brad keeps going. Patrick says something along the lines of "wonderful, now go find the funding for that, convince them to change X number of courts to clay, convince them the program needs to require the time on it, get the investors to buy into the idea" and Brad throws something out, Patrick throws out another obstacle just the same. Brad basically says, well why can they do it so easily in Spain and France, and Patrick doesn't give a clear answer but says it should be easy, it's just not. Whoever the powers that be are that bankroll the USTA, they are not here for red clay courts in various locations around the US, that's just the bottom line.

There may be more, this is off the top of my head - American women (besides Serena) good on clay - Sloane, Shelby, Amanda, Madison, Danielle, Caty, Bernarda

by JTContinental I was wondering when the Suliso Serena death knell tour would start up

She just waxed the world #2 2 days ago. Really what she needs is to avoid drawing Osaka, who has a younger, better version of her game--the title would have been hers here had Naomi gone out earlier.

by ti-amie Clay courts make you have to learn how to really play tennis. Point construction. Positioning. Staying on top of things mentally. Having to be in pretty good physical shape. Once you've mastered those lessons playing on a hard court is a different proposition.

What's being lost in all the Jen Brady hype is that she hired German coaches and spent a lot of time during the lockdown there. The man she worked with is in Melbourne with her.

Madison Keys good on clay with her style of play? Receipts please.

by Suliso Let me rephrase my question - which American players are better on clay than on hard court? There are several which are not too bad, but better than on hard?

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:47 pm Let me rephrase my question - which American players are better on clay than on hard court? There are several which are not too bad, but better than on hard?

I believe Shelby Rogers prefers clay. She grew up playing on green clay. I think Madison Keys has said she really likes clay now and maybe even better than hard court, can't remember - she likes how the ball sits up and gives her more time to rip. Don't know about Kenin but wouldn't surprise me.

by ponchi101 I grew up playing in both clay and hard. I find the idea that hard courts make you less disciplined somewhat unfounded.
In hard courts, in the past and for people like us (me), you could sprint very quickly for the shot. But if your opponent had you in the run, your recovery was more difficult: depending on your speed it could take as many as three steps to finally stop and come back. A good placed volley into the open court would beat you. On clay, you would learn to slide into the shot so that at your point of contact that would be the furthest you would be out. From there, recovering to the middle is easier because you already stopped. The same volley would now not win the point.
Examples like "look at Roger, he won everywhere but Pete could never win on clay, and Roger grew up on clay. Therefore, clay is better" are a little misleading too. Look at Delpo. He grew up on clay but his best results are on hard. More power to clay? Maybe, but the reality is that most countries favor clay courts so most players will come from a clay upbringing. Cilic is a similar example. But you would ask: Ok, they are good players who won Slams on hard, but if clay was the key issue, why did they never win on the same clay that they grew up? Delpo has made only 2 SF at RG and 2 SF at Madrid, the other clay court event he has performed the best. His sole MS1000 is at IW. So, he grew up on clay and plays better on hard? It makes little sense.
My idea: America is simply going through a natural random slump, in the men's. The women are doing fine and they win and play well everywhere (Sloane's second GS final was at RG). It is not the clay, it is not the style, it is simple randomness and the memory of when the USA was the powerhouse.
Look at Australia. Almost two full decades of dominance, growing up on grass. And then, this huge void. Simply because the rest of the world started to play tennis too, when they became affluent. You want more champions? Put more racquets in the hands of kids. The best will rise.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:29 pm I grew up playing in both clay and hard. I find the idea that hard courts make you less disciplined somewhat unfounded.
In hard courts, in the past and for people like us (me), you could sprint very quickly for the shot. But if your opponent had you in the run, your recovery was more difficult: depending on your speed it could take as many as three steps to finally stop and come back. A good placed volley into the open court would beat you. On clay, you would learn to slide into the shot so that at your point of contact that would be the furthest you would be out. From there, recovering to the middle is easier because you already stopped. The same volley would now not win the point.
Examples like "look at Roger, he won everywhere but Pete could never win on clay, and Roger grew up on clay. Therefore, clay is better" are a little misleading too. Look at Delpo. He grew up on clay but his best results are on hard. More power to clay? Maybe, but the reality is that most countries favor clay courts so most players will come from a clay upbringing. Cilic is a similar example. But you would ask: Ok, they are good players who won Slams on hard, but if clay was the key issue, why did they never win on the same clay that they grew up? Delpo has made only 2 SF at RG and 2 SF at Madrid, the other clay court event he has performed the best. His sole MS1000 is at IW. So, he grew up on clay and plays better on hard? It makes little sense.
My idea: America is simply going through a natural random slump, in the men's. The women are doing fine and they win and play well everywhere (Sloane's second GS final was at RG). It is not the clay, it is not the style, it is simple randomness and the memory of when the USA was the powerhouse.
Look at Australia. Almost two full decades of dominance, growing up on grass. And then, this huge void. Simply because the rest of the world started to play tennis too, when they became affluent. You want more champions? Put more racquets in the hands of kids. The best will rise.

Yes, there are so many factors, including individuality. Someone's game might not develop for the surface most available to them.

by ti-amie I still think that learning to play - the mental and physical part of the sport - on clay is where kids should start. The game you develop may be better played on hard courts but you would know how to construct a point for example, something many US players are unable to do. Constructing a point on a hard court is different than on clay but the concept behind constructing a point would be embedded in you and not some alien thought process.

If you look at players like Feliciano Lopez, David Ferrer, Delpo as has been mentioned, their games are better suited for hard courts but they have the basics, the mechanics, down pat. Just because you learn on clay doesn't mean you have to be a clay court specialist. I think that attitude is changing though and that is a good thing.

by Deuce

Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:17 pm Look at Canada - produced nothing ever and now great talents on both sides.

^ That's because we brought in people from France to set up here and run our programs.
Seriously.

This current wave of top Canadian players - from Milos and Genie onward (if Genie can be considered a top player) - occurred after Louis Borfiga, Nathalie Tauziat, Guillaume Marx, and others came over from France.
Not all the players went through the system directly (Denis and Leylah didn't, for example) - but the foundation these French (from France) people installed here had an indirect positive effect on them, all the same.

This French teaching system is done mostly on hardcourts here, by the way, with comparatively little done on clay.

We have had some decent players in the past, by the way - Carling Bassett... Helen Kelesi... Aleksandra Wozniak...
Glenn Michibata, Grant Connel, Sebastien Lareau, and Daniel Nestor in doubles...
Mary Pierce and Greg Rusedski were both born in Montreal (to different parents!). Rusedski was raised in Montreal and learned his tennis in Canada...

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:45 pm
Madison Keys good on clay with her style of play? Receipts please.

Madison has been a Semi-Finalist and Quarterfinalist at the French, she's won Charleston/Family Circle/Whatever current name may be and also been runner up at least one other time, and she's been in the finals at one of the big European tournaments, I think it was Italy. She's injured so often I think it's easy to forget, but she's actually done well on the surface. But as I've mentioned before, it doesn't get criticized much, but her non-US travel schedule is suspect.

As for others - Shelby definitely grew up on clay, she's from Charleston. Anisimova grew up playing on hard courts and clay courts from what I remember, but obviously her best results thus far have been on clay. Sloane has said it's her favorite surface in the past. Bernarda is unquestionably best on clay. Caty, I'm not sure she's had enough time on the regular tour yet, but she was runner up at the French juniors, also won doubles there with Iga. And now that I'm writing that, pretty certain Caty lost that year to Coco. So she's another one.

Another one I just thought of on the horizon is Emma Navarro. Billionaire whose dad owns the tournament in Charleston, so clearly she's played on it. I believe she's also a RU at the French juniors in recent years.

by ti-amie Don't stone me but I don't count the "green clay" of the US as "real" clay because it's not.

I did forget about Keys runs at the French.

Since it seems there's going to be a clay season this year I remain to be convinced that folks like Pera, Anisimova et all will prove themselves on the real terre battue.

by JazzNU I think it's real clay for sure. Different than red clay, but still a clay court that shouldn't be discounted.

What I've noticed over the years about green clay is that it is "but that was on green clay" to downplay a Madison Keys or Angie Kerber winning there, but it's merely "she did win Charleston" when it's explaining the good clay court results of Stosur, Ostapekno, Bertens, Jankovic, Petrova, or take your pick. If it's someone known as a hard court player they "but that was green clay" them, but it's someone known to do well on clay in general, it's just "Charleston Open Winner or Finalist" with no qualifiers.

by ti-amie From the Google:

What are green clay tennis courts made of?
A green clay (or Har-Tru) court actually plays more like a hard court than a red clay court. It's composed of crushed basalt, a natural green stone from Virginia, instead of red clay's brick, limestone and gravel.Apr 11, 2017

by ti-amie

by Liamvalid Does Murray fit on that list?

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:51 pm From the Google:

What are green clay tennis courts made of?
A green clay (or Har-Tru) court actually plays more like a hard court than a red clay court. It's composed of crushed basalt, a natural green stone from Virginia, instead of red clay's brick, limestone and gravel.Apr 11, 2017

I mean, this is from Wikipedia:

Green clay, also known by the brand names Rubico and Har-Tru, is similar to coarse red clay, but is made from crushed metabasalt rather than brick,[4] making the surface slightly harder and faster. Green clay is packed to make the subsurface. It is then covered with a topping.

You discount green clay results. I don't. I stand by what I said . Green clay court results are discounted when people want to do that, especially by TV commentators, and used when they want to reinforce a good clay court player's results. There's a lot of overlap between winners and runners up at Charleston and those performing very well at RG, so I don't personally get why this narrative powers on, but I'm not here to argue about it either.

by ponchi101 I am sorry, but whoever wrote that a har-tru court plays more like a hard court than red clay simply has to explain to me his style of play. The difference between har-tru and red clay is negligible, to me. I will say that the difference between balls will be way more marked.
You can slide in har-tru easily, and the ball is slower. I really like to play on har-tru (the club I belonged to in Caracas had 5 har-tru courts) so I played there for years.
It is a puzzling comment, to me.

by dmforever

JazzNU wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:14 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:51 pm From the Google:

What are green clay tennis courts made of?
A green clay (or Har-Tru) court actually plays more like a hard court than a red clay court. It's composed of crushed basalt, a natural green stone from Virginia, instead of red clay's brick, limestone and gravel.Apr 11, 2017

I mean, this is from Wikipedia:

Green clay, also known by the brand names Rubico and Har-Tru, is similar to coarse red clay, but is made from crushed metabasalt rather than brick,[4] making the surface slightly harder and faster. Green clay is packed to make the subsurface. It is then covered with a topping.

You discount green clay results. I don't. I stand by what I said . Green clay court results are discounted when people want to do that, especially by TV commentators, and used when they want to reinforce a good clay court player's results. There's a lot of overlap between winners and runners up at Charleston and those performing very well at RG, so I don't personally get why this narrative powers on, but I'm not here to argue about it either.

I agree with Jazz on this one. I played on clay courts in Italy and in Colombia. The Colombian clay courts I played on were vastly different from the Italian clay courts (sandier, not made from crushed brick, slipperier, a thinner coating of the crushed clay) and yet they are considered "real" clay courts. I don't know if the clay courts in South American pro tournaments are the same as the ones I played on in Colombia (which were at a fancy club that I couldn't afford, but that's another story

), but I'm guessing they are at least similar to those. The green clay can't be more different from the European red clay and the South American clay is from the European clay. It's all clay.

Kevin

by ti-amie Sabalenka will be reducing her on court time by focusing on singles and less on doubles.

by ti-amie Per "Spiceboy" there will be 2 tournaments in Charleston in consecutive weeks. The original WTA 500 and this WTA 250 the week after replacing both the Chinese WTA and the Fed Cup finals.
I miss the Amelia Island tournament.

by ponchi101

dmforever wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:42 pm ---

I agree with Jazz on this one. I played on clay courts in Italy and in Colombia. The Colombian clay courts I played on were vastly different from the Italian clay courts (sandier, not made from crushed brick, slipperier, a thinner coating of the crushed clay) and yet they are considered "real" clay courts. I don't know if the clay courts in South American pro tournaments are the same as the ones I played on in Colombia (which were at a fancy club that I couldn't afford, but that's another story ), but I'm guessing they are at least similar to those. The green clay can't be more different from the European red clay and the South American clay is from the European clay. It's all clay.

Kevin

The clay courts here in Colombia have a base layer of simple dirt/earth, to keep the prices down. I have even played in a place where the courts were really earth, compacted.
I doubt that we have courts here in Colombia that are like anything in Europe. The one court I played on in France was luxurious, in comparison.

by ponchi101 On another subject.
Novak has made it to the finals of a slam after saying that he had tore a muscle and that, had it not been a Slam, he would have retired.
How did that affect the betting lines? I, for example, chose Zverev over him in predictions because I thought he would not be physically fit.

by dmforever

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:05 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:42 pm ---

I agree with Jazz on this one. I played on clay courts in Italy and in Colombia. The Colombian clay courts I played on were vastly different from the Italian clay courts (sandier, not made from crushed brick, slipperier, a thinner coating of the crushed clay) and yet they are considered "real" clay courts. I don't know if the clay courts in South American pro tournaments are the same as the ones I played on in Colombia (which were at a fancy club that I couldn't afford, but that's another story ), but I'm guessing they are at least similar to those. The green clay can't be more different from the European red clay and the South American clay is from the European clay. It's all clay.

Kevin
The clay courts here in Colombia have a base layer of simple dirt/earth, to keep the prices down. I have even played in a place where the courts were really earth, compacted.
I doubt that we have courts here in Colombia that are like anything in Europe. The one court I played on in France was luxurious, in comparison.

Exactly

The place that I played at in Colombia was a pretty swanky club, so my point was that probably the courts that the pros play on in South America are more similar to those courts than European clay courts, and yet there is no asterisk by those clay courts. I think you are agreeing with me, right?

Kevin

by ponchi101 Sure. The other thing about clay: they all play really different. Perhaps the posh-est club in South America (tennis wise) is the Buenos Aires Tennis Club, where the BA Open is played. A gorgeous place, with top notch courts. I doubt the place I play has courts like those. So clay changes a lot and that is part of the appeal.
Har-tru changes a lot too. And go tell Orantes, Connors and Vilas that their US Opens on har-tru at Forest Hills have an asterisk

by ti-amie They started to talk about the difference between South American red clay and European red clay a couple of years ago. I'm a dedicated watcher of the Golden Swing.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:05 pm I have even played in a place where the courts were really earth, compacted.

^ That's nothing - I've heard that there have been a few courts made that have not only earth, but they even allow grass to grow from it!
On a tennis court!

Who came up with that crazy idea?

by skatingfan

Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:38 am ^ That's nothing - I've heard that there have been a few courts made that have not only earth, but they even allow grass to grow from it!
On a tennis court!

Who came up with that crazy idea?

You mean, like this:

by Deuce A few years ago, there was actually a court around here in worse condition than that ^ - it was part of an apartment complex. Obviously the court had not been kept up - there was vegetation growing from the many cracks.
I said to a tennis friend of mine as we passed by it "I've always wanted to play on a grass court. Now I'll finally get the chance!"

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:45 pm Per "Spiceboy" there will be 2 tournaments in Charleston in consecutive weeks. The original WTA 500 and this WTA 250 the week after replacing both the Chinese WTA and the Fed Cup finals.
I miss the Amelia Island tournament.

Spiceboy???

I always liked the Amelia Island tournament.

by ti-amie He's the one person on another site that is usually spot on re what is going on re WTA tournaments.

by ti-amie

by Deuce Before Roger, Rafa, and Novak came along, the record for male Major singles titles was 14 (Sampras). 14 is certainly impressive - and it broke the long-standing record of 12 (Roy Emerson)...

But when you think that Roger, Rafa, and Novak have attained, or are closely approaching, 20 Major singles titles EACH, and that they have accomplished this while having to compete directly against each other, it truly puts this amazing accomplishment into proper perspective.

We are very fortunate to have witnessed this, for we will likely never see anything like it again.

by ponchi101 I wrote about that in TAT1.0. Think it this way:
The big three: 58 slams, the equivalent to 14 1/2 years NON STOP of slams.
To get to 58 you need: Sampras (14), Emerson (12), Borg (11), Laver (11), Connors (8) and you would still need a 2 slam winner to match them.
Whenever one of them gets to 21, he will be three Newcombe's, McEnroe's or Wilander's.
As you say, this has been amazing. And we will never see this again. This is the Golden Era of Golden Eras.

by Suliso Perhaps we won't, but how many years is never?

by ponchi101 I also wrote about that, using Usain Bolt as an example. Do you see somebody breaking that 9.58 record? Maybe. But eventually, and even if that happens, then who breaks that 9.57? A 9.56? Eventually, we will get a record that will not be broken.
The same will happen to tennis. To begin with, we don't know if tennis will be played forever and the synergy of having three guys playing at this level simultaneously will be hard to repeat.
Never? Tough to bet on that. But it won't be this generations, as they are already late at the gate. The next generations would need to start winning and winning early. So I don't think I will see it, and that would mean some 30 years.
I actually don't think we will see another guy pass Sampras, in a long time.

by Suliso I don't think Usain Bolt analogy holds here. The current record is very difficult to beat, but hardly impossible (Serena has 23). All it would take is someone else coming up the same quality and drive as one of these three AND another consistent challenger not arising. Age 22-34 (13 seasons) with 2 Slam per year average you're at 26 Slams already. Sure it's not likely, but I don't find it absolutely impossible either.

by ponchi101 We got mixed up. You are talking about ONE guy/girl coming up and winning 26. I was talking about having three more like this, at the same time. Remember that, for example, Steffi and Serena have been accused, at times, of having played in a weak era. Roger, Rafa and Novak escape that criticism because they played against each other.
My point is that eventually some records will remain forever. And this record of having three guys at 20+ slams seems pretty hard to beat to me.

by Suliso Ah, sorry I misunderstood then. I did indeed mean one future player beating the 20 Slam mark. Much easier if no one else during that time beats 8-10 mark.

by Liamvalid

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:59 pm We got mixed up. You are talking about ONE guy/girl coming up and winning 26. I was talking about having three more like this, at the same time. Remember that, for example, Steffi and Serena have been accused, at times, of having played in a weak era. Roger, Rafa and Novak escape that criticism because they played against each other.
My point is that eventually some records will remain forever. And this record of having three guys at 20+ slams seems pretty hard to beat to me.

Who says Serena played in a weak era? She had to compete against multiple slam winners for most of her teens and 20s, and still came out on top against them a lot of the time

by Suliso Only in relative terms. She didn't truly overlap with another 10+ Slam winner.

by ponchi101

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:21 pm ...

Who says Serena played in a weak era? She had to compete against multiple slam winners for most of her teens and 20s, and still came out on top against them a lot of the time

I have heard that on several occasions. Steffi in particular gets accused of that, even more frequently than Serena. I don't agree with that assessment, as it is circular. if you dominate an era, you are accused of playing in a weak one. If there is no 10+/multiple slams champion, the era is also labeled as weak. No win scenario.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Don't shoot the messenger (me)

by meganfernandez It's very funny.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:46 am Don't shoot the messenger (me)

by ponchi101 And I suspect she means it in admiration. She reached #24 in the WTA ranking (I had not idea who she was).

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:40 pm And I suspect she means it in admiration. She reached #24 in the WTA ranking (I had not idea who she was).

Yeah, I'm sure she did. I remember her name but didn't know she was ranked that high. Five years ago, I wouldn't have thought #24 in the world was a big deal or a big accomplishment. My perspective has changed so much. Top 25 at any point in your career is amazing. It's all relative but my perspective has shifted from only looking at players as potential superstars/Slam champions or not.

by ponchi101 We do that a lot (and I don't mean Tatoo'ers, I mean everybody). We are so used to seeing Roger and Rafa and Nole and Pete, that we forget the sort of achievement a top 100 ranking means. Everybody that gets into the top 100 plays tennis at a level that we will never reach, yet we dismiss them. A QF showing at a Slam, a tournament victory at a 250, those are incredible achievements.
Story.
I was once sitting next to Jimmy Simansky, a Venezuelan player that never broke into the top 100. He plateaued around 120. In 1996, he played the qualies of the USO, and told the people at the table this story. He lost in the last round of qualifiers but was the #1 LL. So, he was hanging in the players lounge, waiting to see if he got lucky. And he did. A tournament official came over and told him "Simansky, you are in. Get ready, you play in one hour!". Jimmy was super happy, grabbed his stuff and asked where and against whom. "Louis Armstrong Stadium, you play Sampras".
Jimmy went out there and gave his best. He lost 2, 2 & 2. He told the people at the table that it got the point that he felt that it did not matter where he would hit the ball, Sampras was already there. And then, one of the people said something like "man, what a bummer". Simansky got serious and said: "Man, I played Sampras in Louis Armstrong stadium. That was the greatest day of my tennis career" (he had retired already).
I always remember that when I hear somebody say that Julien Bennetau, or Hugo Dalien, or Donald Young are no good. They are excellent, just not enough for that last little step. Hackers like me should always remember that when we hit one passing shot or one ace against one of our fellow hackers. That same passing shot would have been volleyed for a drop winner if hit against any pro. And we should act accordingly.

by mmmm8 Yup, imagine being among the top 100 in the world at your profession.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:27 pm We do that a lot (and I don't mean Tatoo'ers, I mean everybody). We are so used to seeing Roger and Rafa and Nole and Pete, that we forget the sort of achievement a top 100 ranking means. Everybody that gets into the top 100 plays tennis at a level that we will never reach, yet we dismiss them. A QF showing at a Slam, a tournament victory at a 250, those are incredible achievements.
Story.
I was once sitting next to Jimmy Simansky, a Venezuelan player that never broke into the top 100. He plateaued around 120. In 1996, he played the qualies of the USO, and told the people at the table this story. He lost in the last round of qualifiers but was the #1 LL. So, he was hanging in the players lounge, waiting to see if he got lucky. And he did. A tournament official came over and told him "Simansky, you are in. Get ready, you play in one hour!". Jimmy was super happy, grabbed his stuff and asked where and against whom. "Louis Armstrong Stadium, you play Sampras".
Jimmy went out there and gave his best. He lost 2, 2 & 2. He told the people at the table that it got the point that he felt that it did not matter where he would hit the ball, Sampras was already there. And then, one of the people said something like "man, what a bummer". Simansky got serious and said: "Man, I played Sampras in Louis Armstrong stadium. That was the greatest day of my tennis career" (he had retired already).
I always remember that when I hear somebody say that Julien Bennetau, or Hugo Dalien, or Donald Young are no good. They are excellent, just not enough for that last little step. Hackers like me should always remember that when we hit one passing shot or one ace against one of our fellow hackers. That same passing shot would have been volleyed for a drop winner if hit against any pro. And we should act accordingly.

I love that story! Thanks for sharing it. And I'm glad Jimmy sees it that way. This is why I stopped getting upset when my favorite player (always a star) would lose. Those other players deserve a little glory, too. It's just a crumb compared to what the stars have. It's also why I'm not bummed about Roger losing the Slam record - why should one person get everything? He has plenty.

Sometimes you see a pro hit a ball and think, I could rally with that person. Yeah you might be able to. But you couldn't win a point. What makes them great is that they can hit a very good ball 100 times exactly the same way, plus the athleticism and the dedication to hard work. That is nothing at all like hitting one great shot. There was a little mini-movement on Twitter recently to retire the word "journeyman" because it's insulting. I'm not sure I agree that the term is the problem - versus just respecting those players properly - but the point is a good one.

It just took me a long time to get this. What really helped change my perspective was learning from the graduate assistant coaches at the University of Indianapolis, who are elite tennis players themselves. Seeing the sport through their eyes changed a lot for me.

by Suliso

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:21 pm Yup, imagine being among the top 100 in the world at your profession.

In most professions that would be mighty hard to measure... If I claimed that I am how would you refute?

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:40 pm And I suspect she means it in admiration. She reached #24 in the WTA ranking (I had not idea who she was).

I remember Jamie Hampton well, but I also saw her play in person once. She was a player that was hampered by injuries and had to cut her career short. Best on hard and grass courts I believe. I didn't know she reached 24, but not too surprising, she was a good player. Definitely had some impressive wins during her career, including at least a few Top 10 wins in there. It's a shame she kept getting injured.

by meganfernandez I played on a court with electronic line calling last night (Playsight). It uses 6 camera angles. It clearly got some calls wrong. Called a serve long that was so clearly in - all of us there saw it inside the service line. Interesting... Hawkeye uses 6 or more cameras but I think some of them are pretty far away from the court. These cameras were right on the court, very close.

Overall, Playsight was super fun toy if you ever have a chance to play on a court with the full system.

by dmforever

JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:05 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:40 pm And I suspect she means it in admiration. She reached #24 in the WTA ranking (I had not idea who she was).

I remember Jamie Hampton well, but I also saw her play in person once. She was a player that was hampered by injuries and had to cut her career short. Best on hard and grass courts I believe. I didn't know she reached 24, but not too surprising, she was a good player. Definitely had some impressive wins during her career, including at least a few Top 10 wins in there. It's a shame she kept getting injured.

This is sooooo strange. I was thinking about her the other day and wondering what had happened to her. I couldn't remember her first or last name, but knew what she looked like, but didn't know if I would be able to describe her in a way that others here would know who I meant. I really liked watching her play and am sorry that she has had to retire. Thanks for the post.

Kevin

by ti-amie

Randy Walker
@TennisPublisher
Thai-Son has been DMing me and saying as such as well. This is the original story https://e.vnexpress.net/news/sports/ame ... 39046.html Wishing Thai-Son good luck in Singapore and representing the USA in future events!

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:37 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:21 pm Yup, imagine being among the top 100 in the world at your profession.
In most professions that would be mighty hard to measure... If I claimed that I am how would you refute?

Peer reviewed papers published.
And I want to see your paycheck. SHOW US THAT PAYCHECK!!!

(Even in team sports it is hard to determine who stands where. Tennis? Check that ranking (not this year, I know...))

by mmmm8

Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:37 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:21 pm Yup, imagine being among the top 100 in the world at your profession.
In most professions that would be mighty hard to measure... If I claimed that I am how would you refute?

There is no way to definitively measure, of course, but there are ways to gage for a lot of professions... from compensation to academic publications to industry awards, etc. I just don't think most of us are in the top 100, even if we are very good at our jobs.

Specifically for you.... I do have access to compensation data across countries for most professions, even scientist. Salary doesn't directly correspond to quality... but I guess neither does a sports ranking.

by meganfernandez

by JazzNU This is overkill. And why is that lid up? Serious pet peeve in any photo or HGTV show.

by Suliso

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:01 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:37 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:21 pm Yup, imagine being among the top 100 in the world at your profession.
In most professions that would be mighty hard to measure... If I claimed that I am how would you refute?
There is no way to definitively measure, of course, but there are ways to gage for a lot of professions... from compensation to academic publications to industry awards, etc. I just don't think most of us are in the top 100, even if we are very good at our jobs.

Specifically for you.... I do have access to compensation data across countries for most professions, even scientist. Salary doesn't directly correspond to quality... but I guess neither does a sports ranking.

I'm sure you know I was just joking albeit I imagine comparing income would favor not disfavor Swiss scientists.

A bit more seriously you could conceivably compare professors by number of publications, impact factors and so on. No real way to compare industrial ones. The two chemists I personally consider the best in our company (= most inventive) could only be identified by those who are good themselves. Otherwise "speak a lot and well, invent not so much" types would fool you.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:16 pm

OMG. Gives a whole new meaning to the words/phrases:
drop shot
dumped one into the net
got tight in the end
couldn't close the match

I do like the racquets, though.
This person could not get a book of sudokus instead?

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:32 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:16 pm
OMG. Gives a whole new meaning to the words/phrases:
drop shot
dumped one into the net
got tight in the end
couldn't close the match

I do like the racquets, though.
This person could not get a book of sudokus instead?

It is totally a Caption This contest. The Royal Box?

by skatingfan Camped out on the baseline.

by Deuce I'm a 4.0 to 5.0 player (5.0 on a good day, 4.0 on a not so good day). I learned to play in the 1980s with standard sized racquets (metal, fibreglass, graphite - not wood), very little topspin.
Within the past 10 years, I've been able to get on the court with 2 pro players. The first was a Davis Cup player from Haiti. I'm a pretty good player - almost always one of the best at the several local courts I play at. So I figured I could stay with this Davis Cup player in rallies - after all, he didn't play Davis Cup for France or the U.S., or Sweden - when was the last time Haiti won the Davis Cup?

There is an expression that the player 'has the ball on a string'. That's exactly what it felt like when I played the Haitian Davis Cup player. It felt like he could place the ball anywhere he wanted to. And, like in ponchi's story, it seemed that wherever I hit the ball, he was already there. I was running around at least twice as much as he was - using maybe 3 times the energy he was using. And still, he was winning rather easily.

The second time was when I got on the court with Adil Shamasdin - a 'journeyman' doubles player. He was serving a bucket of balls at a tournament and I asked him if I could return them. The first 25 or so serves blew by me - about half were outright aces, and the other half, I barely got a racquet on. After that, I started to get my timing and rhythm down better... I was on the court with him for 15 - 20 minutes, and in that time, it was only in the last 10 minutes or so that I actually managed to return any of his serves in play - and only about 3 or 4 of every 10 at that. Fortunately for me, we didn't play out any points.

When we finished, I said to him "You know... I'm playing a tournament next week (true), and you've totally shattered my confidence!" We both laughed.
A few years later, when I saw him at a tournament again, I asked if he remembered me. He said "Yeah, sure - you came on the court to return my serves." Hoping to get another shot at it, I said "I've improved since then." He deadpanned, with a smile "So have I."

Indeed, these guys play at a different level. Even at the Challenger level. The consistency,,, the depth... the control ...
I know a 12 year old kid who's highly ranked. He's small, and doesn't hit hard. But he can hit deep into the corners seemingly at will. That's the key.

by mmmm8

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:11 am I'm sure you know I was just joking albeit I imagine comparing income would favor not disfavor Swiss scientists.

A bit more seriously you could conceivably compare professors by number of publications, impact factors and so on. No real way to compare industrial ones. The two chemists I personally consider the best in our company (= most inventive) could only be identified by those who are good themselves. Otherwise "speak a lot and well, invent not so much" types would fool you.

We'd adjust for cost of living differences

(I was also joking of course, but it's possible!)

You're very correct in the second part about presentation vs quality and this is why I will always argue that the tennis player belongs at their ranking/as a tournament winner, etc., no matter what asterisks people want to add to the result, because it's the most objective way to measure their performance.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:54 am ...

OMG. Gives a whole new meaning to the words/phrases:
drop shot
dumped one into the net
got tight in the end
couldn't close the match

I do like the racquets, though.
This person could not get a book of sudokus instead?

It is totally a Caption This contest. The Royal Box?
[/quote]

Ok, enough. Let's put a lid on it

(No, keep it coming...)

by ponchi101

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:48 am ...
I know a 12 year old kid who's highly ranked. He's small, and doesn't hit hard. But he can hit deep into the corners seemingly at will. That's the key.

Last story. I promise.
Years ago, at my club in Caracas, we had this very good 12-14 yo. He simply could blast any ball anywhere. By 14, he was beating everybody in the club. And then his dad went insane. Insane in that he decided (the dad) that the kid would become a pro. There was no way he would not make it to the very top. So he pulled the kid out of school, and the kid's sole purpose was to train, which he did, daily at the club. As I had my weird schedule (either working or full time off) I could see him there, every noon, training hard, and getting better.
His name was very similar to one of the top pros of the late 90's. So, the end of the story: he never made it. Never even made it to challengers or the ITF tournaments, which we would have known as the names were so similar. I don't know what happened to him but, as he did not make it into professional tennis and his education was so truncated (I hope he was able to return to that) who knows what happened to him.

Sasha Zverev said it all, in perhaps his sole great quote: "There are a million future number 1 that never made it to number 1". This is one tough sport.
Hope that 12 yo will make it.

by dmforever

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:38 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:48 am ...
I know a 12 year old kid who's highly ranked. He's small, and doesn't hit hard. But he can hit deep into the corners seemingly at will. That's the key.
Last story. I promise.
Years ago, at my club in Caracas, we had this very good 12-14 yo. He simply could blast any ball anywhere. By 14, he was beating everybody in the club. And then his dad went insane. Insane in that he decided (the dad) that the kid would become a pro. There was no way he would not make it to the very top. So he pulled the kid out of school, and the kid's sole purpose was to train, which he did, daily at the club. As I had my weird schedule (either working or full time off) I could see him there, every noon, training hard, and getting better.
His name was very similar to one of the top pros of the late 90's. So, the end of the story: he never made it. Never even made it to challengers or the ITF tournaments, which we would have known as the names were so similar. I don't know what happened to him but, as he did not make it into professional tennis and his education was so truncated (I hope he was able to return to that) who knows what happened to him.

Sasha Zverev said it all, in perhaps his sole great quote: "There are a million future number 1 that never made it to number 1". This is one tough sport.
Hope that 12 yo will make it.

That's a really important story. Thanks for sharing it. It made me think of two weeks ago when Aslan Karatsev was doing so well in Australia. I heard story after story of not giving up and reaching for your dreams because look what can happen. It made me want to pull what little hair I have left out. So what about the thousands of similarly ranked players who keep plugging away year after year and never make it, who may be in great debt, and who may have sacrificed an education, and who may not have a lot of job prospects? I'm not saying not to try, but to present the situation of players in the 100s and 200s in this fairy tale kind of way where hard work always results in success is really idiotic. Great for Aslan. I really like his game and wish him lots of success. But let's not use him as an example, or if we do, let's also share the story of someone who ended up in their 30's without ever really making it.

Kevin

by Suliso Someone who made it all the way to 100-300 range is definitely outstanding and if nothing else can continue earning living by teaching amateurs or kids in some club for many years to come. Not a lucrative life post playing life we all somehow expect for former pro players, but an honest job which puts a bread on the table so to say.

by ponchi101 In Europe and the USA, yes. Most professional players in Latin America that reach that ranking either make it here but barely, or move to the USA or Europe (mostly Spain) as assistant coaches in the big academies. Simanski, for example, teaches in Florida. Sure, Venezuela is an exception because the entire country is in such dire straits, but it is not an infrequent story.
Fabiola Zuluaga, the best ranked Colombian player ever (# 16 top ranking and a SF appearance at the Aussie Open), holds a few training camps at the academy where I play. I was one of the few that knew who she was (I was actually looking to see if she would not mind a one hour session, which I would gladly pay for). She is financially secure, but not rich.

That is the reason that the US College system is still needed. Sure, seldom we see somebody coming from college making it big (Brady is the latest example, but also an exception) but if you can come out of college with a degree, your footing is more solid.

by Suliso Surprising more haven't heard of her in Colombia. I'd not recognize her on a street, but the name is familiar.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:38 pm Last story. I promise.

^ I hope not.
Keep them coming...

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:58 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:38 pm Last story. I promise.
^ I hope not.
Keep them coming...

Same, I love these stories. Loved yours, too, Deuce. I love that the other guys said, "So have I." You're lucky to even get a chance to return a pro player's ball, see what it's like. I think the athleticism is also hard to appreciate until you're on the court with it. I've interviewed Rajeev Ram a few times, and once he explained why the it's hard to appreciate the athleticism of tennis players - that other than serve speed, it's hard to measure. He pointed out that in football, the average person knows they can't throw for 50 yards. But the dimensions of a tennis court makes it seem like rec players can do what they do. It's not until you're on the court with a player that you really see the difference. I've seen it a little bit with UIndy players I've been on the court with. Some of them are nationally ranked in their European countries. The ball-on-a-string thing is a good analogy. And the athleticism stands out.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:36 am
Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:58 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:38 pm Last story. I promise.
^ I hope not.
Keep them coming...
Same, I love these stories. Loved yours, too, Deuce. I love that the other guys said, "So have I." You're lucky to even get a chance to return a pro player's ball, see what it's like. I think the athleticism is also hard to appreciate until you're on the court with it. I've interviewed Rajeev Ram a few times, and once he explained why the it's hard to appreciate the athleticism of tennis players - that other than serve speed, it's hard to measure. He pointed out that in football, the average person knows they can't throw for 50 yards. But the dimensions of a tennis court makes it seem like rec players can do what they do. It's not until you're on the court with a player that you really see the difference. I've seen it a little bit with UIndy players I've been on the court with. Some of them are nationally ranked in their European countries. The ball-on-a-string thing is a good analogy. And the athleticism stands out.

Thanks, Megan. I enjoy reading any story about tennis.
Interesting what Ram said about it being more difficult to measure ourselves against the pro game in tennis than in other sports.

Tennis can also be a great equalizer when it comes to pro athletes... Many years ago, I took 2 major league baseball players out to a tennis court (they were friends of mine). Although good enough to play at the top level of baseball, these two guys were horrible at tennis. I mean really, really bad. This seems strange, as hitting a tennis ball is at least somewhat similar to hitting a baseball. But that’s where the similarities end, of course. After about 15 minutes - and several balls lost over the fence - I pulled them off the court.
I’ve seen other pro athletes trying to play tennis (on TV) - with a similar result. Tennis is just... different.

The Haitian Davis Cup player still asks me to play when I see him at tournaments. I say "No, thanks. I'm not in your league." Apparently, he enjoys running me around the court more than I enjoy it

.
When I got on the court with Shamasdin, it was just a ‘I’ll ask him for the hell of it’ thing. He was nice enough to say ok. Now, he and I always say ‘hi’ when we see each other at tournaments, and talk a bit. At a tournament in 2019, I wanted him to try out an old standard sized fibreglass racquet that I had - because it’s got the best feel of any racquet I’ve ever hit with. I went onto the practice court with him and gave him the racquet to try. He was hitting with his doubles partner, so I didn’t hit with him... but he hit with my old racquet for a few minutes, and quite liked the feel, he said. Then I gave the racquet to his doubles partner to try.
It’s fun to do uncommon things like that, and talk with them to get insights into the pro game. To me, that’s much more interesting than asking for them to scribble their name on something, or to pose for a photo.

by ponchi101 Don't get me started on tennis athleticism. We are the most underrated sport of all, when in reality we have had some of the best athletes in the history of sports. Borg had a resting heartbeat of 36 (only bested by Miguel Indurrain's 30), Jim Courier had a body fat measure of 4% (I bet Novak is around there). Laver and Vilas were famous for being able to do 150 ONE ARM push ups on one go.
Courier would do 1,500 sit-ups a day, in sets of 100. The catch? He would do the sets in between his other exercises, so his sit-up was his recovery time.
And let's not even talk about Martina. Or Steffi, who once the national coach for the German 4x400 relay team tried to recruit (she was still not totally known in Germany).
I have said it before: The NBA/WNBA and the ATP/WTA. In overall skills and athleticism, no one can beat those.

by Suliso Some people say swimmers are the best all around athletes.

by ponchi101 It would be a fun debate. How to measure that? But in tennis and basketball, the eye-hand coordination comes into play too. It is not only how strong you are, it is the delicate balance between hitting that 125MPH forehand winner inside the court and decapitating a spectator in the third row.
Sure, swimmers are incredible, but it is a repetitive skill; actually, the best swimmers are the ones that can repeat one single motion over and over, not losing power. The men and women running the 100 Mts dash are physical freaks, and it requires skills, but I do not think in the same fashion than Steph Curry shooting a three with an opponent covering him.
But my main point is that we are not the country club vision of a Sunday player. We are better athletes that we are given credit for.
BTW. Ages ago, Tennis magazine published a study, showing that people that play tennis have a longer lifespan. Something about the combination of remaining active on court (the sport for a lifetime) and the fun part of it. There were also some indications that it was good for your mental hygiene and health. You know, keeping score, figuring out a strategy, etc.

by Suliso Longer compared to people who do some other sport or compared to couch potatoes?

by ponchi101 Longer compared to the overall population. It was quite a study.
(People that subscribe to tennis boards, on the other hand, tend to live shorter lives. It seems their partners shoot them early...)

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:26 pm Longer compared to the overall population. It was quite a study.
(People that subscribe to tennis boards, on the other hand, tend to live shorter lives. It seems their partners shoot them early...)

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:58 pmBTW. Ages ago, Tennis magazine published a study, showing that people that play tennis have a longer lifespan. Something about the combination of remaining active on court (the sport for a lifetime) and the fun part of it. There were also some indications that it was good for your mental hygiene and health. You know, keeping score, figuring out a strategy, etc.

Tennis is one of the few sports people can play when they're really old, which might skew the study. Former swimmmers might live longer, but they aren't swimming anymore by the time they're counted in a study like this. Just a guess!

There are USTA leagues for 90-year-olds!

by Suliso Why would they not be swimming? My parents, in their early 70-ties, still swim in the sea in the summer and neither was a competitive swimmer in their youth.

by atlpam

Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:46 pm Why would they not be swimming? My parents, in their early 70-ties, still swim in the sea in the summer and neither was a competitive swimmer in their youth.

I've also seen plenty of older swimmers (70's) regularly doing laps in the lake near our Vermont home.

by JazzNU Essentially back from maternity leave

by ponchi101 Mothers playing in the WTA. No longer a rarity or even a conversation topic

by meganfernandez Had a little controversy in my USTA match yesterday. Curious what you guys think about this scenario:

Singles match (not that it would matter), my opponent hits a groundstroke that is going to be long. About 70-80% into its flight path, so shortly before it's about to bounce, a ball from the next court comes toward me in the air. I see it but don't call a let. My opponent doesn't know that I see it, so she calls a let about a second before her ball bounces (indeed out). She insists we replay the point and could not understand why I thought we shouldn't replay the point once she said "let."

USTA rules allow you to call a let on your opponent's court, but i think that's mostly for safety or maybe if it distracts your eye. (In college tennis, you can't do that.) I asked her if the other court's ball had distracted her before she hit the ball, and she said no, she was just making sure I saw it and didn't get hit. I thanked her for her consideration and pointed out that I actually did see it and didn't call a let because her ball was going to be out, and since it was out and the let ball/call didn't affect the play at all, the point should stand. She was flabbergasted and said once she says "let," we replay the point, no questions asked. (She called it in good faith, I'm sure. however, the ball was pretty obviously in my sightline and traveling very slowly. It wasn't like I was in danger of spraining my ankle or getting hit on the head.) But I disagreed. Even after you call a let, you can (should?) assess the circumstances and decide if one player deserves a re-do. The whole point of her "let" was to warn me, not correct an unfairness in the play. I don't know what the rule is technically for this gray area, but regardless, courtesy (and common sense) would dictate that she concede that point.

It was a pivotal point. I was serving at 4-5, 5-all in a very tough match. We replayed it (honestly I didn't care that much) and she won the point, the set and the match. Not because of that point, but still.

What would you have done if you were her or me?

by dave g

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:19 pm Had a little controversy in my USTA match yesterday. Curious what you guys think about this scenario:

Singles match (not that it would matter), my opponent hits a groundstroke that is going to be long. About 70-80% into its flight path, so shortly before it's about to bounce, a ball from the next court comes toward me in the air. I see it but don't call a let. My opponent doesn't know that I see it, so she calls a let about a second before her ball bounces (indeed out). She insists we replay the point and could not understand why I thought we shouldn't replay the point once she said "let."

USTA rules allow you to call a let on your opponent's court, but i think that's mostly for safety or maybe if it distracts your eye. (In college tennis, you can't do that.) I asked her if the other court's ball distracted her before she hit the ball, and she said no, she was just making sure I saw it and didn't get hit. I thanked her for her consideration and pointed out that I actually did see it and didn't call a let because her ball was going to be out, and since it was out and the let ball/call didn't affect the play at all, the point should stand. She was flabbergasted and said once she says "let," we replay the point, no questions asked. She called it in good faith, I'm sure. But I disagreed. Even after you call a let, you can assess the circumstances and decide if one player deserves to have the point replayed. The whole point of her "let" was to make sure I was safe, not to right a wrong in regard to the play/point. I don't know what the rule is technically for this gray area, but regardless, courtesy would dictate that you concede take that point.

It was a pivotal point. I was serving at 4-5, 5-all in a very tough, tight match. We replayed it (honestly I didn't care that much) and she won the point, the set and the match. Not because of that point, but still.

What would you have done if you were her or me?

I'm with you.

by meganfernandez

dave g wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:43 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:19 pm Had a little controversy in my USTA match yesterday. Curious what you guys think about this scenario:

Singles match (not that it would matter), my opponent hits a groundstroke that is going to be long. About 70-80% into its flight path, so shortly before it's about to bounce, a ball from the next court comes toward me in the air. I see it but don't call a let. My opponent doesn't know that I see it, so she calls a let about a second before her ball bounces (indeed out). She insists we replay the point and could not understand why I thought we shouldn't replay the point once she said "let."

USTA rules allow you to call a let on your opponent's court, but i think that's mostly for safety or maybe if it distracts your eye. (In college tennis, you can't do that.) I asked her if the other court's ball distracted her before she hit the ball, and she said no, she was just making sure I saw it and didn't get hit. I thanked her for her consideration and pointed out that I actually did see it and didn't call a let because her ball was going to be out, and since it was out and the let ball/call didn't affect the play at all, the point should stand. She was flabbergasted and said once she says "let," we replay the point, no questions asked. She called it in good faith, I'm sure. But I disagreed. Even after you call a let, you can assess the circumstances and decide if one player deserves to have the point replayed. The whole point of her "let" was to make sure I was safe, not to right a wrong in regard to the play/point. I don't know what the rule is technically for this gray area, but regardless, courtesy would dictate that you concede take that point.

It was a pivotal point. I was serving at 4-5, 5-all in a very tough, tight match. We replayed it (honestly I didn't care that much) and she won the point, the set and the match. Not because of that point, but still.

What would you have done if you were her or me?
I'm with you.

Thanks. That's all I wanted, obviously, some validation.

by JTContinental If were on her side, I think it would be a different story, but in this instance, I'm also with you.

by meganfernandez

JTContinental wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:52 pm If were on her side, I think it would be a different story, but in this instance, I'm also with you.

Okay, I'll take it.

But what would justify replaying the point? Any let call in good faith, regardless of the fairness of the circumstances?

BTW, I found the USTA rule. "When a ball from another court enters the playing area, any player on the court affected may call a let as soon as the player becomes aware of the ball." She wasn't affected. She was kind, but not affected. I guess I should have looked it up.

by JTContinental Only the letter of the law

It's suspect for sure, and would definitely bug me

by ponchi101 Had the ball in play (in your match) landed in, you and her would have accepted the let. The ball was still in play as it had not landed.
I would have called the let.

by meganfernandez

JTContinental wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:08 pm Only the letter of the law

It's suspect for sure, and would definitely bug me

I actually found the rule after you replied and i think the letter of the law was on my side. I just didn't whip out the rule book. We were having a fantastic match and getting along really well. We had played a few weeks ago, and same thing. After explaining myself, I quite quickly agreed to replay the point because it wasn't worth making a fuss about - we were having fun and having a great match. We kept discussing it for a while because I thought perhaps we were disagreeing on the actual events, not the rule. I was surprised that the conversation turned tense, and it happened so fast, which probably affected the whole dynamic and outcome. Oh well. I'll know for next time.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:09 pm Had the ball in play (in your match) landed in, you and her would have accepted the let. The ball was still in play as it had not landed.
I would have called the let.

That's not the rule, though. Someone has to be affected to trigger a replay. Also, a let can only be called when a ball is live and in play, so I think live/dead status is moot.

And yeah, had the ball landed in, that would be a different set of circumstances, which would call for a different evaluation.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:19 pm Had a little controversy in my USTA match yesterday. Curious what you guys think about this scenario:

....

The whole point of her "let" was to warn me, not correct an unfairness in the play. I don't know what the rule is technically for this gray area, but regardless, courtesy (and common sense) would dictate that she concede that point.

....

What would you have done if you were her or me?

You are right in that courtesy and common sense would dictate that she concede the point.
But, as we are all too well aware, rules and laws do not always implement courtesy, and certainly not common sense.

Were I in your position, based on your description of the incident, I'd have likely taken the very same position as you took.
Were I in your opponent's position, I would have very likely conceded the point.

What would a chair umpire have called, though? Would it come down to the chair umpire's judgment as to whether the incoming ball from the other court had any effect on the point that was being played on your court? Or is it as ponchi suggests - that a let is called, halting the point immediately, as soon as the errant ball is seen on your court?
Tough one. But ethically, I am definitely with you.

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:54 pm BTW, I found the USTA rule. "When a ball from another court enters the playing area, any player on the court affected may call a let as soon as the player becomes aware of the ball." She wasn't affected. She was kind, but not affected. I guess I should have looked it up.

^ The way I read that rule, "any player on the court affected" means that if THE COURT is affected, not if one of the players is affected. Another (and perhaps more clear) way of writing it would be "When a ball from another court enters the playing area, any player on the court where the errant ball lands may call a let as soon as the player becomes aware of the ball."

by dmforever It was your point. The surprise she showed was either disingenuous or purposeful bravado to try to prove something that she knew was wrong. It's exactly the same principle as a late line call not being allowed to affect the subsequent shot if it was out. You're a good sport. She isn't. Sorry you lost.

Kevin

by Fastbackss She can be correct and it still be a poorly executed judgment call from a timing and situational awareness perspective.

by meganfernandez

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:50 am She can be correct and it still be a poorly executed judgment call from a timing and situational awareness perspective.

Exactly.

As Deuce pointed out below, the language is vague - does "affected" modify/the court or the player? I'd say player because if it was court, then affected should be before court - "any player on the affected court." My god, if I have to diagram a sentence to resolve a tennis dispute....

I think the rule needs clarification and I'm going to ask the USTA. Just to know the rule.

Thank you all for your feedback and commiserating.

by meganfernandez "Footsteps of Federer" comes out today on Amazon. The author is my friend Dave Seminara, a travel and tennis writer. For a preview, and a fascinating look at how he put his Federer pilgrimage together, below is an interview on Jeff Sackman's podcast (he's the Tennis Abstract guy, and a rabid traveler like Dave). Any Fed fan will love this. It also has a lot of entertaining insight into how Dave reports his tennis stories. He tracks down people all over the world, and there's one insane story about how he reached the oldest Davis Cup player ever, who played for Togo. (His oldest record has been broken... and Dave found that guy, too.)

"Footsteps" has an interesting secondary story--Dave's return to the court himself. He has played all his life but two autoimmune diseases forced him to stop for many years. He finally got well enough to play again, and he wanted to do that on the same courts Federer played on. He intertwined his dual pursuits - learning more about Fed by seeing where he grew up, and rediscovering his own game - into a pilgrimage. His trip coincided with the Basel tournament, where he was the only English-speaking reporter, so he got all the first questions in the press conferences and asked Roger some off-the-wall stuff. Great read and a fascinating podcast.

http://tennisabstract.com/podcast/Tenni ... MsTZCzreGc

Book

by ponchi101 Looks like a fun book. Congrats to your friend

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:49 pm Looks like a fun book. Congrats to your friend

He mentions Colombia in the podcast. Says he saw many more RF hats there than in Switzerland - because the Swiss don't fawn over Roger or any athlete. They adore him and show it at the Basel tournament, but otherwise they don't reveal themselves to be RF superfans.

Listening to the podcast, I kept wanting to ask Suliso, "Is that true?" when Dave interpreted something about Switzerland's character and applied it to Roger. Like the fact that he's not outspoken about social/political issues, something he is sometimes criticized for - is that the famous Swiss neutrality, as Dave observes, rather than a calculated move by Roger to keep sponsors happy? Also not fawning over athletes as celebrities. He also evidently discovered Europe's tennis club system there. I guess he wasn't familiar with the setup of little clubs in small towns, and that clubs compete against each other at all levels. Germany and France have the same thing, and Dave wonders if other countries do, too. I'd think so. Dave also said tennis clubs have good restaurants and are relatively affordable places to eat in Switzerland.

One great anecdote from Sackman - he wore an RF hat in Switzerland and no one said a thing. But on the train to Belgrade, an older woman shook her fist at him and said, "Not Roger. Novak."

by Suliso Likely true. There are a couple of "tabloid stars" around here, but Roger is not one of them. He keeps a fairly low profile off court as do vast majority of rich people here.

by Fastbackss

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:22 pm
Exactly.

As Deuce pointed out below, the language is vague - does "affected" modify/the court or the player? I'd say player because if it was court, then affected should be before court - "any player on the affected court." My god, if I have to diagram a sentence to resolve a tennis dispute....

I think the rule needs clarification and I'm going to ask the USTA. Just to know the rule.

Thank you all for your feedback and commiserating.

I believe there was a similar question in the Tennis magazine ask the rules expert section. I don't recall how long ago, but I recall it saying it had to be intentionally vague - and that the let can be called at any time because safety must be paramount...

The byproduct of course is when there is gamesmanship. I have a doubles opponent who does this all the time - it will be against the fence in the back and if they are losing the rally he calls it.

by ti-amie

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:51 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:49 pm Looks like a fun book. Congrats to your friend
He mentions Colombia in the podcast. Says he saw many more RF hats there than in Switzerland - because the Swiss don't fawn over Roger or any athlete. They adore him and show it at the Basel tournament, but otherwise they don't reveal themselves to be RF superfans.

Listening to the podcast, I kept wanting to ask Suliso, "Is that true?" when Dave interpreted something about Switzerland's character and applied it to Roger. Like the fact that he's not outspoken about social/political issues, something he is sometimes criticized for - is that the famous Swiss neutrality, as Dave observes, rather than a calculated move by Roger to keep sponsors happy? Also not fawning over athletes as celebrities. He also evidently discovered Europe's tennis club system there. I guess he wasn't familiar with the setup of little clubs in small towns, and that clubs compete against each other at all levels. Germany and France have the same thing, and Dave wonders if other countries do, too. I'd think so. Dave also said tennis clubs have good restaurants and are relatively affordable places to eat in Switzerland.

One great anecdote from Sackman - he wore an RF hat in Switzerland and no one said a thing. But on the train to Belgrade, an older woman shook her fist at him and said, "Not Roger. Novak."

I have two anecdotes about his fans. On the way to the US Open a few years ago on the #7 in a car full of people heading out there most of whom were talking within their groups about whatever could barely hear themselves because of two Fed Fans discussing the beauty of his game at the top of their lungs. Eventually everyone fell quiet except those two but they didn't get the hint and continued that way until we were able to escape them at the US Open stop.

On the other hand my daughter and I usually spend the first day or two with a friend who is a rabid Fed fan too. This particular year Federer was playing on Ashe - he had tickets - and he left us watching another match. He came back about half an hour later and we asked what happened. He said he couldn't take his fellow stans.

by Suliso Any of you remember when we last had (if ever) Q vs Q ATP or WTA final? There will be one in Lyon tomorrow.

by patrick WTA had a Q vs LL years ago in Australia where Ivanovic won the title. Forgot her opponent.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Borg retired with a little under $4MM. Connors I think with a bit over.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:46 am

And doctors, nurses, teachers, etc. make how much in comparison?
People respect and value professions based on income. People value the wrong professions.

The way that money is distributed on this planet is equally pathetic.

by ponchi101 Knowing their endorsements and potential future income, once they are off the court, I say Roger may have the chance in a couple of decades to become the first tennis billionaire. Novak will be Serbia's Prime Minister in about 20 years. Rafa will vanish from sight, writing a book called "The rich old man and the sea".
We know Sharapova continues with her business ventures, but she is starting from too far back to reach the billion mark; she will make it to about half.
What about Serena? She will not disappear and her girl seems truly enthusiastic about the sport. But I can't read her, so who knows
---0---
@Deuce:
"Money, it's a crime
Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie
Money, so they say
Is the root of all evil today
But if you ask for a rise it's no surprise that they're giving none away"

But you knew that

(And no, I don't think that money is the root of all evil today).

by JazzNU Roger couldn't be the first tennis billionaire. At the very most he could become the second (assuming there aren't others I don't know about). Ion Tiriac holds that title.

You're not the only one who has referred to him being the potential "first", I've even seen it as a title of an article in the past. I assume there's some recency bias and amnesia going on, but even that's a touch strange given his current ownership of a major tournament on both tours.

by ponchi101 I didn't know that Tiriac was worth that much. I knew he was loaded but a quick search says he is worth $1.27B.
Thanks for the correction.

by Liamvalid How come Serena’s not higher? Is this not counting doubles earnings on top of singles, or is the sex disparity that bad

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:29 pm Knowing their endorsements and potential future income, once they are off the court, I say Roger may have the chance in a couple of decades to become the first tennis billionaire. Novak will be Serbia's Prime Minister in about 20 years. Rafa will vanish from sight, writing a book called "The rich old man and the sea".
We know Sharapova continues with her business ventures, but she is starting from too far back to reach the billion mark; she will make it to about half.
What about Serena? She will not disappear and her girl seems truly enthusiastic about the sport. But I can't read her, so who knows
---0---
@Deuce:
"Money, it's a crime
Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie
Money, so they say
Is the root of all evil today
But if you ask for a rise it's no surprise that they're giving none away"

But you knew that

(And no, I don't think that money is the root of all evil today).

I don't think that money is the root of all evil, either. Greed is. And greed manifests itself through money and the acquisition thereof.

People measure success based on the monetary value of one's income, rather than based on the value of one's contribution to society. When greed is celebrated as a wonderful achievement, things are backwards.

People say we should strive for equality - but the huge majority celebrate the opposite - they celebrate inequality...
When some people have 4 houses and other people have none; when some people wear new clothes every week and other people wear the same clothes for a year... it's incredibly obvious that there exists a major defect on any planet where this occurs.

by meganfernandez

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:50 pm How come Serena’s not higher? Is this not counting doubles earnings on top of singles, or is the sex disparity that bad

Must be WTA Tour prize money vs ATP Tour prize money, and she hasn't played (or won) the tour events as consistently as the Big 3.

by JazzNU It's also just the years in addition to the different prize money on tour. She's been at it a long time, since before there was equal prize money at the Grand Slams.

by ponchi101 And remember that Serena has played entire years in which she played very few tournaments (in comparison to others). Add to that that many of her Slams were in the 2000's, and you see why she is shy of $100MM.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:43 pm And remember that Serena has played entire years in which she played very few tournaments (in comparison to others). Add to that that many of her Slams were in the 2000's, and you see why she is shy of $100MM.

Yeah. It's really quite shocking, though. Djokovic has 50% more than her. (Is that right? Or is it one-third? She has 2/3s of his total, but he has an extra 1/2 of hers. Sorry I just ruined this with maths.)

by ponchi101 It goes both ways. Your explanation stands. And no, you did NOT ruin it with math

by JazzNU Not really that shocking though. Remember, in addition to there not being equal prize money, there have been substantial increases in prize money in the last decade. Take into account her managing her injuries, illness, and managing her schedule over the last decade when those increases took place, it's not as surprising.

First time Serena won Aussie Open in 2003 - Prize money $556,534

First time Novak won Aussie Open in 2008 - Prize money $1,370,000

Also, consider, the male champion in 2003 was Andre Agassi. So, so long ago. His prize money was $657,087

by Suliso Exactly, that's why past champions are nowhere to be found on lists like this. This year will be difficult to add much with prize money greatly reduced except at Slams.

For example, it has been reported that 2021 Miami prize money will be reduced from 16.7 million in 2019 to only 6.68 million this year and of course Indian Wells is not held at all. The prominence of Slams as far as finances are concerned is much more than usual.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:05 pm Exactly, that's why past champions are nowhere to be found on lists like this. This year will be difficult to add much with prize money greatly reduced except at Slams.

For example, it has been reported that 2021 Miami prize money will be reduced from 16.7 million in 2019 to only 6.68 million this year and of course Indian Wells is not held at all. The prominence of Slams as far as finances are concerned is much more than usual.

Which is why players did whatever they had to to play the Australian. Except Roger. And why it would really suck even worse to miss the cut by 1 spot or lose in the last round of qualifying.

by Suliso Petra Kvitova with 28 WTA titles is third among active players on tour. I would have guessed Halep being #3...

by the Moz Serena 73
Venus 49
Kvitova 28
Halep 22
Azarenka 21

by JazzNU Huh. Given how good she is on both clay and hard courts, you'd think Sveta had enough titles to be listed since she's still an active player. She must have just a ton of runner-up trophies in her house since she's missing from this Top 5 list.

by Suliso There is a reason why she never reached #1. She has 18 titles.

by Fastbackss Due to the signature every post by the Moz is amazing...because I think it's commentary on the content

by meganfernandez Help me obsesses about something I shouldn't!

In dubs yesterday, one opponent stood with her foot on the T when her partner returned. Legal, and I think you see this in the pros. But I can't imagine a reason other than to mess with the opponent, distract them and bait them to go down the T too close to a target (her stupid foot). Of course, i just wanted to nail her foot or her leg. To me, that's gamesmanship even if it is legal. Legal doesn't mean your intention is sporting. Once the serve was in, she shifted left away from the center line, so it's not like the T is where she wanted to play from. Total cheap move in my opinion - especially in USTA. She was a total sweetie otherwise and even gave me a Band-Aid, so I couldn't hate her.

by ponchi101 All your posts are just the perfect reminder of why I stopped playing leagues so long ago. Yes, that is a total jerk move, especially in a social context. Don't hate her, indeed, but do avoid her. I would.
Terrible story:
I walked into the club and reached the courts area. A weekend match with another club is going on, on the women's side. Things are already very heated, as the match was not being played amicably. The club's pro comes to me and asks me if I would mind refereeing the match that is going on. Just then, something happens on the court, and one of the women (our club) asks one of the players what the score is. Not even trying to drop her voice, that woman replies: "I could tell you what the score is if this f****** b**** were not cheating every point". It was completely audible.
I told the pro, who was my friend: "They are calling each other FB. There is no way I get on that chair; they will pluck my eyes out the moment I call a line".
Never even came close to playing matches again, at any level. I had stopped years before but there was no need for the aggravation.

by skatingfan Given the way the rules of tennis are written it's amazing that more servers don't try to hit the net player - aim for the chest & there's a good chance they don't get completely out of the way.

by ponchi101 PSA: Attention all players. DO NOT, REPEAT, DO NOT GET ON A COURT WITH SKATINGFAN. Not without some good life insurance.
I want you on my team

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:18 pm

Aren't we all thinking the same thing? He'll be hounded by that (faint) asterisk forever. I admire the person's balls to ask that. But it is a pretty pointless question, especially in a presser situation, which I assume it was. In a longer conversation, something more in-depth, it might have come up.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:05 pm All your posts are just the perfect reminder of why I stopped playing leagues so long ago. Yes, that is a total jerk move, especially in a social context. Don't hate her, indeed, but do avoid her. I would.
Terrible story:
I walked into the club and reached the courts area. A weekend match with another club is going on, on the women's side. Things are already very heated, as the match was not being played amicably. The club's pro comes to me and asks me if I would mind refereeing the match that is going on. Just then, something happens on the court, and one of the women (our club) asks one of the players what the score is. Not even trying to drop her voice, that woman replies: "I could tell you what the score is if this f****** b**** were not cheating every point". It was completely audible.
I told the pro, who was my friend: "They are calling each other FB. There is no way I get on that chair; they will pluck my eyes out the moment I call a line".
Never even came close to playing matches again, at any level. I had stopped years before but there was no need for the aggravation.

I'm seriously considering not playing leagues anymore. Not mainly because of (expletive) people, but also because I'm not sure I like that kind of competition. Might rather play singles leagues and ladders and such.

by JazzNU

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:09 am
Aren't we all thinking the same thing? He'll be hounded by that (faint) asterisk forever. I admire the person's balls to ask that. But it is a pretty pointless question, especially in a presser situation, which I assume it was. In a longer conversation, something more in-depth, it might have come up.

I'm not thinking that at all. Dominic should have and almost did beat Novak at the Aussie Open. He's beaten Novak on other occasions. I'm not assuming Novak would've won this one and he deserved to be disqualified. And the point the guy makes is a good one. I haven't heard any reporters say that Federer's French Open title or Career Slam have an asterisk next to it and I definitely don't remember them asking him that question.

by Liamvalid

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:18 pm

After Novak was defaulted, I did think Rafa would be kicking himself for not going to USA. But after seeing the way Thiem played in those later rounds, I doubt Nadal (or Djokovic) would have won the title anyways. The shock for me was that Thiem went out so tamely in Oz

by ponchi101 I find the question valid. People may have thought about it. When Roger won RG, I did hear people say exactly that he would not have won it if he had faced Rafa in the final. I have heard people say Rafa would have beaten Stan at that Aussie final if his back had not given up on him.
Those hypotheticals are just that. Heck, the question is much more interesting that 95% of all questions asked in a press interview: "When you were facing break point, how did you manage to win the point?"
"Because.... that's what pro-players do, and I am one?

"

by skatingfan I think the questions valid, but asking in the presser of a different tournament seems weird - more a career retrospective interview type question - but if Thiem, like Wawrinka, adds another couple slam titles the question will fade away.

by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:27 pm I think the questions valid, but asking in the presser of a different tournament seems weird - more a career retrospective interview type question - but if Thiem, like Wawrinka, adds another couple slam titles the question will fade away.

True. The weird circumstances of Novak's default also add some shelf life to Thiem's situation, his first GS title. But the question highlights how differently fans and most media think about the pro game than the athletes themselves. There's so much we can't relate to. Most people assume Novak would have won; I doubt Novak or Thiem assume that. They know how slim the margins are. Yes, Thiem knows and respects Novak's level and would acknowledge that he was the favorite. But probably not the runaway favorite. Thiem took takenNovak to 5 in Melbourne that year. I bet Thiem would have felt perfectly confident and ready for that match. It might not have gone his way, but it he wouldn't have been a huge underdog.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:50 pm

I bet Acapulco still gave appearance fees.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:05 pm I find the question valid. People may have thought about it. When Roger won RG, I did hear people say exactly that he would not have won it if he had faced Rafa in the final. I have heard people say Rafa would have beaten Stan at that Aussie final if his back had not given up on him.
Those hypotheticals are just that. Heck, the question is much more interesting that 95% of all questions asked in a press interview: "When you were facing break point, how did you manage to win the point?"
"Because.... that's what pro-players do, and I am one? "

Sure we've all heard it. FROM FANS. Do you remember credentialed reporters asking Roger those questions about his French Open title or getting the Career Slam? To Stan about his Aussie Open title?

by ponchi101 Nope. In that case, first time indeed.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:16 pm Nope. In that case, first time indeed.

(Why can't I delete this duplicate post? Where is the X button?)

by ponchi101 And now that we mention it. We spoke little of this, or I can't recall if at all. What do we think?
I think that if that errant ball had not gone the wrong way, Novak would have won the final. Sure, Carreño Busta was playing well and so were the other guys, but I can't see them beating Novak on a hard court at a slam. Not yet.
(Recent Aussie Open final myopia at work, admittedly).

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:16 pm Nope. In that case, first time indeed.

First that we know of. And "the media" isn't a monolithic body. The question might be, would this reporter have asked Roger or Stan the same question? Maybe, who knows.

Also, in those other cases, the favorite lost; he wasn't defaulted amid crazy circumstances. Not quite the same as "think you would have won if your opponent had not been hurt" (Stan in his first Slam title, vs Rafa). That game can go on forever. So it's also perhaps the first time the perceived heavy favorite was out of the event while still in top form and the person who's next in line got his first Slam. The storyline is "can Next Gen knock off the Big 3" and Thiem is king of the Next Gen (well, generously, I know he's older... next gen of Slam champs). So all that's in the soup.

All that said, I don't think this reporter could have expected a good answer, so it seems like a pointless and wasted question to me, but that's their business.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:51 pm And now that we mention it. We spoke little of this, or I can't recall if at all. What do we think?
I think that if that errant ball had not gone the wrong way, Novak would have won the final. Sure, Carreño Busta was playing well and so were the other guys, but I can't see them beating Novak on a hard court at a slam. Not yet.
(Recent Aussie Open final myopia at work, admittedly).

Who knows. That's why the matches are played.

Novak would have been the favorite but Thiem wasn't far behind him on hard court. Novak seemed maybe testy... questions about Adria, stressful circumstances in NYC with the pandemic, the whole PTPA thing. To me, the asterisk on Thiem's title is there but faint. He might have been robbed of the chance to win the title "legitimately." Not his fault. The Big 3 haven't always beaten each other for Slam titles and we don't penalize them.

I'd love to know how many Slams the Big 3 have won without having to face either of the other 2. Maybe that's a tad bit of extra weight in the GOAT debate. Which I DEARLY hope is tied at 20 or 21 when all is said and done.

by ponchi101 Oh, to be clear. I put no asterisk next to Thiem's title. It would have been the same as if Novak had been injured, or PCB had actually beaten him, or 100 different circumstances. The only Slam I will ever put an asterisk next to it is Kodes '73 Wimbledon, and that only to explain it. He still won it, playing his 7 rounds and beating his opponents.
Thiem won fair and square. But, in an alternate universe, maybe the lines person sneezed right at that moment and the ball went by her. And Novak is at 19 Slams and were are still waiting for somebody to break through.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:51 pm (Recent Aussie Open final myopia at work, admittedly).

It must be. Make your mind remember the 2020 Aussie Open final a bit more clearly and the antics Novak had to pull to get that win. I have no trouble seeing Thiem beat him at the US Open.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:07 pm Oh, to be clear. I put no asterisk next to Thiem's title. It would have been the same as if Novak had been injured, or PCB had actually beaten him, or 100 different circumstances. The only Slam I will ever put an asterisk next to it is Kodes '73 Wimbledon, and that only to explain it. He still won it, playing his 7 rounds and beating his opponents.
Thiem won fair and square. But, in an alternate universe, maybe the lines person sneezed right at that moment and the ball went by her. And Novak is at 19 Slams and were are still waiting for somebody to break through.

totally possible. Maybe likely. Djokovic is so metaphysical and philosophical and borderline nuts, I wonder if he thinks there's a reason it happened that way, since it was utterly bizarre and wildly against the odds.

by ponchi101

JazzNU wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:07 pm ...

It must be. Make your mind remember the 2020 Aussie Open final a bit more clearly and the antics Novak had to pull to get that win. I have no trouble seeing Thiem beat him at the US Open.

That is an interesting take because I remember that final very well. I was in Argentina, coming from a job and I was beat. So, I woke up, watched the first three sets and when Thiem won the third, I told myself "He is not winning. Back to sleep" (my eyes were closing).
Later in the day they showed the replay and we know what happened. So, although I can also see Thiem beating anybody on court, I can also see Novak beating anybody on a hard court. Sure, we will never know but, were I a gambling man with the miraculous time machine, and were I forced to put money down on the hypothetical Thiem/Novak final, my shekels would be on Novak.

by JazzNU I'm asking this seriously. Do you just remember him winning or do you also remember the antics?

by ponchi101 I remember both. I am not doubting your statement about his behavior, which was pretty shady.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:18 pm

It's a stupid question - because the only honest, legitimate answer is "Maybe".
The only reason to ask such a question is to create gossip (and it has worked).
No-one - including Thiem - knows the answer to the question.
Seriously - what can possibly be gained by asking such a question? Absolutely nothing.
If he answers 'yes', people will say he's unrealistic and conceited; if he answers 'no', people will talk about an asterisk. It's a 'no win' situation.
AND - even Thiem himself cannot possibly know the answer to such a stupid, hypothetical question. It's like asking "Do you think you still would have won if you strung your racquets 5 pounds lighter?"

When the only honest, legitimate answer to a question is "Maybe", that is the same as giving no answer - because it's not possible to give an answer - and that negates the question.

I think the reporter has a right to ask the question... but I think it's an incredibly dumb question.

by ti-amie It's a "gotcha" question - damned if you do and damned if you don't. The problem with tennis journalism is that outside of Briggs, Clarey and a few others there are a lot of folks who get credentialed who are just angling for that clickbait quote. Tennis is the only sport where transcripts don't indicate who the reporter is asking the question. It's been a problem for years.

by meganfernandez What happened to our Tennis Journalism thread? Do we have one? I wish we did.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:34 pm What happened to our Tennis Journalism thread? Do we have one? I wish we did.

Still here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=87#p772

by JazzNU

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:34 pm What happened to our Tennis Journalism thread? Do we have one? I wish we did.

Ponchi posted the link, but also, don't forget, if there's a thread you'd like that doesn't exist, you're welcome to start it.

by ti-amie

Dzumhur : “I couldn’t take the injustice anymore”
Damir Dzumhur claims that he was not disqualified against Botic van de Zandschulp in Acapulco, and that he made the decision to leave the court because he was treated unjustly. He also denies allegations that he threatened to kill the umpire.

15 mar 2021 by Sasa Ozmo
It has been a long day at the office for the former world No 23 Damir Džumhur. Trailing 6-5 in the first set against Botic van de Zandschulp in the second round of qualifying in Acapulco, Sunday, the Bosnian didn’t finish the match.

In his own words, he chose to leave the court because of perceived bad calls by the chair umpire, though it will officially be recorded as a default because he threw in the towel after losing his temper and receiving a warning and point penalty. The ATP explains to Tennis Majors :

“Dzumhur received two code violations for unsportsmanlike Conduct (warning, point penalty) and his failure to complete the match resulted in an immediate default. This is in the section “Failure to compete a match” in the ATP Rule Book.”

In that manner, Džumhur continued a poor run of form since 2021 started; he lost in the first round of Australian Open as a lucky loser, and then went on to lose in the first round of qualifying in Montpellier.

“It is important for me to emphasize that I was not disqualified, I have chosen to leave the court voluntarily”, said Džumhur, now ranked 125th in the world, to a panel of local journalists in his native language, although the ATP website states that Van de Zandschulp won by default.

The video footage here confirms apparently what Dzumhur is saying.

Džumhur continues his account :

“Simply, I could not bear that someone treats me very badly, that he can do whatever he wants; the umpire directly influenced the match with his bad calls. The last straw was the ball at 5-5 and 40-40; it was clear that the ball was out, but he did not react and I have lost that game.”

While admitting that he was angry, 28-year old from Sarajevo denies that he threatened to kill the umpire, Joshua Brace from the USA :

“I honestly do not know where some websites have found the information about me threatening that I would kill anyone. It is true that I have said to the supervisor that I felt the need to hit the umpire because of what he has done to me. Supervisor suggested that it was not such a great idea, that I could further damage myself. I have answered that I do not care since I was nervous, but I did manage to regroup myself and leave the court. I have not threatened that I would kill anyone, I do not know where that came from, especially since there is video footage of the whole thing.”

Džumhur regrets not being able to hold his temper
Džumhur lost the game at 5-5 and, at 5-6 before his opponent served for the set, he continued his argument with the umpire during the changeover.

“I have told him at the changeover that I can and that I will sue him because he directly influenced my loss. He gave me a warning for saying that. I do not know how anyone has the right to give me a warning for those words. I got up, but I was already very upset… I won the first point of the next game and then I have made another comment, I cannot remember exactly what at this point; but the umpire told me ‘it is enough’. I answered that it was not enough and that I will decide when it is enough. Then he gave me the second warning, meaning a point penalty. In my head I felt that the huge injustice is being done to me, I could not control myself anymore since I was extremely nervous about the whole situation. I reiterate – I have left the court, I was not disqualified.”

Džumhur has been prone to emotional outbursts on the court in the past. He regrets not being able to hold his temper, but feels that he was wronged.

“I am really sorry that I was not able to control my emotions, because I let someone to affect me so much and for him to make me so upset. Because of my family, I am sorry that I have not shown that I am stronger than everything that has happened, but I was treated unfairly and the damage to me was done, I stick to that.”

This story recalls the famous incident at Wimbledon in 1995 when American Jeff Tarango “defaulted himself” by leaving the court before what became a post-match disqualification and subsequent suspension. It also echoes Nick Kyrgios’ continuing abuses against the umpire during Cincinnati loss against Karen Khachanov in 2019.

https://www.tennismajors.com/news/atp-t ... 27501.html

by ti-amie

by the Moz For shame Zoom, wise move Shapo

by meganfernandez

the Moz wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:46 pm For shame Zoom, wise move Shapo

Funny, I was wondering if what Shapo says - tour bubbles taking a mental toll on many players - had something to do with Thiem's struggles, which we have been discussing somewhere...

by JazzNU I couldn't make out that audio of Dzumhur, but doesn't look good, that's for sure.

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:23 pm I couldn't make out that audio of Dzumhur, but doesn't look good, that's for sure.

Getting up in the face of the chair ump is never a good idea.

by Deuce If history is anything to go by, death threats on a tennis court are nothing to worry about.
After all, Shino is still alive and well more than a decade later...

by ti-amie Tournament Director critical of Roger Federer lifetime contract: ‘I hope it will never happen again’
ATP TourRafael NadalRoger FedererTennis News
March 16, 2021
By
Tennisbuzz Team

Tournament director of the Mexican Open, Raul Zurutuza has criticised the existence of life-time contracts between players and tournaments and singled out Roger Federer as a bad example.

Federer agreed a lifetime contract with the Dubai Tennis Championships which has now seen him play there 14 times and win eight times since 2003.

The contract was again renewed in 2019 for Federer to return in 2020 to defend his title, but both injury and the coronovirus pandemic prevented him from doing so, and he has decided to skip this year’s event to improve his fitness.

Federer’s commitment to the Dubai Championships has meant he has never been able to play at the Mexican Open, both of which are ATP 500 events, as it takes place in the same week.

Now Mexican Open tournament director, Zurutuza has spoken out about the contract and said he hopes it will never happen again.

“That story of Roger who never came to Mexico because of the Dubai issue, I hope it will never be repeated with another player,” Zurutuza told reporters.

“It is important that each player can be in as many tournaments.”

Rafael Nadal will not be competing at this years event to defend his title either due to a back injury, but other top ten players Alexander Zverev, Stefanos Tsitsipas and Diego Schwartzman will be there.

Zurutuza says although the Spaniard will be missed, he is happy with the line-up.

“He (Nadal) is a fixed asset of the tournament, the desire to have him is always there but we have great names and the public will be able to enjoy it, the tournament is going well and on Saturday we will deliver very good results.”

https://tennisbuzz.net/tournament-direc ... pen-again/

by Suliso It would have made no sense for Roger to go to Mexico, contract or no contract.

by ti-amie I understand and agreenthat he would probably always opt to stay in Europe/The Middle East but shouldn't the Central and South American tournaments be allowed to compete? I think the news here is the lifetime contract between a player and a tournament.

by Suliso Is he the only player on either tour to have such a contract (in Halle too)?

by dmforever Sorry for my ignorance, but does that just mean that Federer is paid to play that tournament every year?

Kevin

by JazzNU There would have been a very good reason for him to play in Mexico and the reason they have a increasingly good field. It's in relative close proximity to Miami. Other years, it's in close proximity to Indian Wells and Miami. The reduced travel seems to be a good schedule for many players. Maybe without the contract, Federer would've tried it and decided it was better than playing in the Middle East before IW each year.

I definitely didn't understand how this lifetime contract thing was allowed. Didn't know about the this one, but about Halle. It always seemed way too cozy a setup that would lead to obvious favoritism in scheduling and treatment if nothing else.

@Kevin, yes, he is. He gets hefty appearance fees at almost every tournament he plays that is a 500 event to my knowledge. Other players do as well, but I believe Roger consistently commands the highest. A couple of years ago there was a (hilarious to most of us) story about Zverev trying to get the same amount of appearance fees as the top 4 and tournaments basically laughing at the request.

by the Moz Appearance fees should be scrapped. End of.

by ponchi101

the Moz wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:17 pm Appearance fees should be scrapped. End of.

Morally and ethically, sure. Practically, not a good idea. It was done in the 1970's and early 80's, with the infamous Vilas trial as a prime example and it did not work. Without guaranteed appearance fees tournaments such as Dubai, Doha or even some big ones such as Indian Wells would have not been able to bring in any of the big names and get a footing on the tour. Also, having a big name in your draw meant more money (the Roger effect) for the tournament, so the players were right in asking: why should we be kept off the profit? The last part was simple: it is just a few players that get guarantees. Serena, Roger, Rafa, Novak, a few others. And one has to admit that they are the ones that made the sport grow.
Guarantees should be open and public knowledge (although not the amount) but getting rid of them will only lead to under the table payments, with another Vilas trial simply down the road.

by JazzNU This is interesting about Denis. Maybe his approach to 2021 isn't as much about his mental health as that other article made it seem.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/tennis/news ... e-trending

by Deuce

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:24 pm This is interesting about Denis. Maybe his approach to 2021 isn't as much about his mental health as that other article made it seem.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/tennis/news ... e-trending

So... what Denis is saying, in effect, is that the top players, who have all made literally millions upon millions of dollars in tournament winnings and endorsements (this essentially means players in the top 30 for any length of time - which includes Denis) - these players DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY, and desperately require more. And that this is their main motivation to play.

I don't think I've seen a larger load of BS spewed in tennis over the several decades I've been following this sport.
Absolutely unbelievable selfishness.

Perhaps Denis should go and spend a week in Yemen, or in Ethiopia, or any other part of the world where children are dying because they have no food.
There is more than enough money in the world to adequately feed, house, and clothe every person on the planet - it's just that the money is extremely poorly distributed.

.

by ti-amie I haven't found out who said what that started this conversation but we talked about it a bit yesterday (Thursday).

Carole Bouchard Purple heartYellow heart @carole_bouchard

PS: Also don’t use the Big 4 as alibi for this recurring format obsession. Really. Those four guys are the ultimate tennis warriors: they wanna take those GS fights with the young guns until the end. That’s part of the greatness testing process, and they know it.

by Omess

ti-amie wrote:I haven't found out who said what that started this conversation but we talked about it a bit yesterday (

PS: Also don’t use the Big 4 as alibi for this recurring format obsession. Really. Those four guys are the ultimate tennis warriors: they wanna take those GS fights with the young guns until the end. That’s part of the greatness testing process, and they know it.

It is this article from Simon Briggs . But more this quote
“ men's grand slams must be three sets - it is the only way to save Roger Federer and Andy Murray”

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:20 am I haven't found out who said what that started this conversation but we talked about it a bit yesterday (Thursday).

PS: Also don’t use the Big 4 as alibi for this recurring format obsession. Really. Those four guys are the ultimate tennis warriors: they wanna take those GS fights with the young guns until the end. That’s part of the greatness testing process, and they know it.

It's never a good idea to evaluate the rules or formats through the lens of any particular player. It's useful as input and as a mirror for a standard, but it's not the ultimate case study. Hope the tennis world resists this urge (and click bait).

As far as the idea - yes! I want the men and women to play the same format at joint events, whatever that is. And practically, it probably can't be B5 for all of them the whole 2 weeks. That's my starting point - same format. My starting point isn't the ideal result of week 1 men's matches - preserving the potential for 5-set matches.

by ponchi101 I remember the lull in 2000-2002, when we had the likes of Kafelnikov, Enquist, Corretja and a few others as the top players in the world. Hewitt was #1 for two years, winning his two slams. They were all very good players but nothing even close to what we started to see in 2003 with Roger ascending and then in 2005 Rafa joining him (2008 Nole).
There has got to be a peak somewhere and sometime. We will not see an endless progress of the quality of tennis because there is a limit. Notice the serve: it has stabilize, for almost everybody, at 130MPH TOPS for the first, 105MPH for the second (for the top players). Notice how serve and volley players no longer can make it. The sport is reaching homeostasis.
We will see very good tennis always. The players are that good. But perhaps we have been fortunate to have lived through the era of Leonardo, Michelangelo, Rafael and two more greats.
(And no, I am not talking TMNT

)

by ti-amie I deleted my post because omess had already posted the article.

Has Murray ever advocated for a change of format? I think the ATP has done enough to make its rankings a joke without using one player to justify a change of format that would benefit him. As for the young guns not being able to navigate five set matches let them figure it out. We'd see less tantrums and more intelligent play.

by JazzNU

Omess wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:49 am
It is this article from Simon Briggs . But more this quote
“ men's grand slams must be three sets - it is the only way to save Roger Federer and Andy Murray”

This is behind a paywall for me, so thank you for posting that quote. It was not what I was expecting from that article title and blurb.

by Suliso That's a ridiculous reasoning. Roger and Andy will be retired within a year regardless of how many sets are played anywhere. Nothing lasts forever.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie What Deuce referenced in another thread:

by ti-amie And of course Stef makes it all about him. As if winning the way the Big 3 have been winning didn't involve sacrifice and pain. Like someone said, that family will be the Djokovic's of Next Gen.

When they learn how to think and pace themselves for five sets get back to me.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:43 am What Deuce referenced in another thread:

It was actually yesterday in this thread that I commented about it.
And very briefly today in the Dubai thread.

And I still think that what Denis (who has more than enough money to live several very comfortable lifetimes) says is extremely greedy and completely ridiculous.

by ponchi101 I will cut him some slack because he is young and he has obviously never been exposed to certain realities.
I think it was Barbara Jordan. Ages ago, she was feeling a bit burnout. She wrote to a friend about the drag of the tour, how tough it was. The friend sent her a fax (those days) with a copy of her weekly check. Jordan said it put a lot in perspective.
This may be a result of how these players are brought up. The amazing tunnel vision that you need to focus on this sport precludes you from certain world views.
Just playing devil's advocate because of course, the comments about his lack of understanding are all correct.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:42 am I will cut him some slack because he is young and he has obviously never been exposed to certain realities.
I think it was Barbara Jordan. Ages ago, she was feeling a bit burnout. She wrote to a friend about the drag of the tour, how tough it was. The friend sent her a fax (those days) with a copy of her weekly check. Jordan said it put a lot in perspective.
This may be a result of how these players are brought up. The amazing tunnel vision that you need to focus on this sport precludes you from certain world views.
Just playing devil's advocate because of course, the comments about his lack of understanding are all correct.

I don't buy that (highlighted portion)... These players get to travel to many different countries on the planet - even as Juniors. If anything, they are thus MORE exposed to many things in the world - including problems - than most people are. As such, they should be more aware, not less.

It's very disappointing to have read that from Denis. Shocking, really. I would expect these kind of comments from someone who is completely self-absorbed, like Rios, etc. Very sad that Denis is so selfish. He comes across as an ignoramus and a prima-donna.

by ponchi101 Sure. They get to travel a lot. To a whole lot of places with very few problems. They don't have tournaments in Afghanistan, or as you said, Yemen. It is NYC, London, Paris, Melbourne, one 5 star hotel after another. They get their first million dollar contract at 16, they do not know that limousines are not standard methods of transportation.
Don't get me wrong. The statement is very shallow. But he is very young and inexperienced. Somebody in his team could be of help, if somebody would want to talk to him about some realities.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:51 am Sure. They get to travel a lot. To a whole lot of places with very few problems. They don't have tournaments in Afghanistan, or as you said, Yemen. It is NYC, London, Paris, Melbourne, one 5 star hotel after another. They get their first million dollar contract at 16, they do not know that limousines are not standard methods of transportation.

^ I think the sheer notion of traveling to many different countries inherently opens one's eyes to different cultures, different ways of living, etc. - even if they aren't playing in Yemen.
If the average 21 year old knows that there are places on this planet where children are dying of starvation, then I believe that a 21 year old tennis player, who has traveled much more than the average 21 year old, should know at least that much.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:51 am Don't get me wrong. The statement is very shallow. But he is very young and inexperienced. Somebody in his team could be of help, if somebody would want to talk to him about some realities.

^ Isn't that what parents are for?
I mean, hell, his parents came to Canada from Russia - or the Soviet Union - in order to have a better life, didn't they? So how can Denis not be aware of 'worse lives' than the life of luxury he is enjoying?

In addition to being paid obscene amounts of money to hit a ball over a net and to wear certain clothes, these players are incredibly spoiled at every tournament they go to. Tournament organizers give them everything they want - and more. Any player who complains that all the money and all the luxuries they are getting is 'not enough' very desperately needs a lesson in reality, at the very least.

by Suliso When was the last time we had two women playing one handed backhand reach the final in the same week? There are very few of those.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU

by ti-amie

by dmforever

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:21 pm

I don't understand. Is he saying that the ATP should be able to override local government protocols and let players out of their bubbles? This from the dude who during the height of the pandemic was going to crowded discos unmasked.

Kevin

by Suliso I like Zverev's tennis, but I'm afraid not any part of his personality. Unfortunate...

by JazzNU How are being in a bubble in Miami and having no contact with the outside world in Rotterdam different? Seemed like he was making a comparison.

ATP players doing a lot of yapping lately... but I'm rarely interested in Gen Z's tone deaf grievances.

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:05 pm I like Zverev's tennis, but I'm afraid not any part of his personality. Unfortunate...

You are at least better off. I find his tennis uninspiring. And his opinions are puzzling, like this one.

by the Moz Sascha's entitlement is the 'bubble' he should be lamenting.

by ti-amie

Maybe I'm still off from my little fever last night but it took me three times reading this to understand what she meant.

Rublev would be #3 in the rankings if they were not being manipulated. He thought he'd be #4.

by ponchi101 I have read it 3 times, read your post too, and I still don't get what she is talking about. Activism about what? Sure, you are explaining it but I don't see her saying that.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:41 pm I have read it 3 times, read your post too, and I still don't get what she is talking about. Activism about what? Sure, you are explaining it but I don't see her saying that.

I THINK she's saying there was a chance the ATP players would stage some kind of "strike" and not play today. Again I "think" that's what she's saying.

Myles is a loose cannon. If she's hearing this via rumor control she should either say "I'm hearing rumblings about players not taking the court" or not say anything at all.

by JazzNU That's my read of those cryptic tweets as well, but I also just don't believe it. I don't think they've got the collective backbone for it. And I dont' think they are ready for the reaction to whiny millionaires complaining about not getting quicker to $10 million in earnings. Especially those from countries that are not as wealthy. They might backtrack later and say it's about lower players getting paid when this doesn't play great among the public, but how much of that have we heard in recent months? They've just been complaining about what they themselves are earning.

Meanwhile, I've heard that Hawkeye Live puts 10,000 people out of a job. Even if it's a temporary, part time job, that's quite a figure and shouldn't be glossed over as much as it is in the push for more technology.

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:02 pm That's my read of those cryptic tweets as well, but I also just don't believe it. I don't think they've got the collective backbone for it. And I dont' think they are ready for the reaction to whiny millionaires complaining about not getting quicker to $10 million in earnings. Especially those from countries that are not as wealthy. They might backtrack later and say it's about lower players getting paid when this doesn't play great among the public, but how much of that have we heard in recent months? They've just been complaining about what they themselves are earning.

Meanwhile, I've heard that Hawkeye Live puts 10,000 people out of a job. Even if it's a temporary, part time job, that's quite a figure and shouldn't be glossed over as much as it is in the push for more technology.

A few years ago, I think it was when Naomi played her first US Open, we watched the Hawkeye system being set up on the old Grandstand (I miss that court so much). It's not some tech dude wandering out on court and plugging it in. I was surprised at how many people it took to get it calibrated and set up. I'm sorry to hear that.

by patrick My guess on Myles is that the players were not happy with the new ATP rankings because Federer is still ranked in the Top 10 due to the 2019 provision being included.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:44 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:41 pm I have read it 3 times, read your post too, and I still don't get what she is talking about. Activism about what? Sure, you are explaining it but I don't see her saying that.
I THINK she's saying there was a chance the ATP players would stage some kind of "strike" and not play today. Again I "think" that's what she's saying.

Myles is a loose cannon. If she's hearing this via rumor control she should either say "I'm hearing rumblings about players not taking the court" or not say anything at all.

The problem with Stephanie is that she too often tries desperately to make things about her; tries too hard to 'prove herself'; to 'prove' how knowledgeable she is, or to 'prove' that she has the 'connections' to get inside information, etc...
If she simply concentrated on reporting the various elements of the pro tours, sometimes from unique perspectives, and left alone this insecurity based anxiety about proving herself, she'd be a decent reporter.

by ti-amie I think this would've been a good story if she got along better with some of her peers who may have dropped a dime or if she had waited to flesh out the story and not have the "scoop". This makes it harder for someone to say anything about it now. Or they'll leak it to Clarey or someone along those lines.

by ti-amie Class move ATP

by Deuce Yeah... maybe in the midst of a global pandemic which is killing hundreds of thousands of people is not quite the best time to start a new tennis association which wants to change many things about the sport.
sigh...

by JazzNU

by JazzNU Now, that meeting sounds rough, and I'm not saying they should've gone about it that way. But based on what him and other players have said in the past, they are fairly ignorant about the finances of the ATP and how things work. And they've been unspeakably unknowledgeable about the way unions work. I've said before many times now, they need to hire someone knowledgeable about tennis and unions to better represent them. Do NBA players represent themselves when they are negotiating with the league? No, they have one of the most skilled trial attorneys in the country going to bat for them. Him and Djokovic seem to think they are the be all and end all of this and have convinced the players things will be a certain way based on basically, what it is they ultimately want, not based on how the ATP and it's tournaments operate and their actual, not their perceived finances.

That they think that right now is the time to complain about prize money helps to show how little they know about the finances of these tournaments. They might claim that this is about just being unhappy with the ranking points, but fellow PTPA member Shapovalov went to yapping and we know good and well this is about money. Miami's reduced prize money has been mentioned plenty, but what isn't mentioned is Miami clearly hustling left and right to make up revenue shortfalls to help with holding this event and still paying decent prize money. It's a shame it's not as much as in years past, but it's hardly pocket change and it's crystal clear to me it could be much lower had they not been hustling this much. For whatever reason, these sorts of things seem to be lost on them.

Also, bottom line, Pospisil wanted a seat at the big boy's table. You can't complain like a little kid at getting what you want. This isn't high school, it's a corporate boardroom. Being insulted by your adversaries? Welcome to negotiations, kid. You ain't seen nothing yet. Get. Representation. You aren't built for this if you're near tears already.

by JazzNU This is from the NFL so you have a better idea of how tense negotiations are. Jerry Richardson was the owners of the Panthers at the time. Domonique Foxworth was a longtime NFL player and the NLFPA VP and later NFLPA President. Domonique is the energy you need from your representative in these kind of interactions. Does it sound like he's close to tears? Or is he giving it back as good as he's got and not going to let ole Jerry get the best of him? Tennis players thinking this is some genteel process are seriously unfamiliar with how real negotiations go.

It became obvious that owners wanted to expand the regular season. In one contentious meeting, Richardson discussed the owners' desire to add a 17th game -- reminding the room that, under the terms of the 2006 CBA, the league could activate as many as two extra games without union approval.

"We're not playing 17 games, Jerry," said executive committee member Domonique Foxworth, who now works for ESPN. "It's not going to happen."

Richardson sat straighter in his chair. "We can make you. We don't have to ask you. We're being nice by not saying, 'F--- you, you have to do it.'"

"We're being nice by not telling you, 'F--- you, we're not playing,'" Foxworth responded.

"We're being nice by not telling you, 'F--- you, we'll play with replacement players,'" Richardson said.

"We're being nice by not telling you, 'F--- you, good luck filling up stadiums with Ryan Leaf at quarterback,'" Foxworth replied.

It was getting out of hand.

"That's a lot of f--- yous!" Smith said, adjourning the room.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/309 ... rice-smith

by ti-amie From what I can see this person Tweeting as "Big eyes @Me1Be1" is new to Tennis Twitter.

by mmmm8 I thought the PTPA did hire a law firm back in the summer?

by JazzNU They may have, I don't recall. But they either didn't hire enough of a shark or they are underpaying them. The kind of shark you need for labor negotiations would've shut something like this down before it began. I would guess the underpayment to be more likely here. Did you give enough of a retainer to make sure they'd be available at a moment's notice to intervene when stuff like this boils up? Or did you give them some BS consulting fee where you're barely using them except for the minutiae of the contracts? With what the players are attempting, this is hefty retainer territory. Given how often we hear specifically from Novak and Vasek and not anyone else, I'd go with the latter.

But absolutely possible they didn't get someone who is truly up for nasty labor negotiations. Given the tears, I have to wonder about expectations here. Did they hire a suit thinking this was just a regular corporate negotiation? Labor negotiations require a shark, plain and simple.

by ponchi101 Of they need a Roger Federer, that can casually drop crap on somebody and the entire tennis world will take notice. A Pospisil talks smack about anybody or any tournament and it will make the back page of an online blog. Or here.

by dmforever

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:18 am Now, that meeting sounds rough, and I'm not saying they should've gone about it that way. But based on what him and other players have said in the past, they are fairly ignorant about the finances of the ATP and how things work. And they've been unspeakably unknowledgeable about the way unions work. I've said before many times now, they need to hire someone knowledgeable about tennis and unions to better represent them. Do NBA players represent themselves when they are negotiating with the league? No, they have one of the most skilled trial attorneys in the country going to bat for them. Him and Djokovic seem to think they are the be all and end all of this and have convinced the players things will be a certain way based on basically, what it is they ultimately want, not based on how the ATP and it's tournaments operate and their actual, not their perceived finances.

That they think that right now is the time to complain about prize money helps to show how little they know about the finances of these tournaments. They might claim that this is about just being unhappy with the ranking points, but fellow PTPA member Shapovalov went to yapping and we know good and well this is about money. Miami's reduced prize money has been mentioned plenty, but what isn't mentioned is Miami clearly hustling left and right to make up revenue shortfalls to help with holding this event and still paying decent prize money. It's a shame it's not as much as in years past, but it's hardly pocket change and it's crystal clear to me it could be much lower had they not been hustling this much. For whatever reason, these sorts of things seem to be lost on them.

Also, bottom line, Pospisil wanted a seat at the big boy's table. You can't complain like a little kid at getting what you want. This isn't high school, it's a corporate boardroom. Being insulted by your adversaries? Welcome to negotiations, kid. You ain't seen nothing yet. Get. Representation. You aren't built for this if you're near tears already.

I agree with you that they need to hire someone to negotiate for them. However, being yelled at is totally unacceptable in a business meeting or union negotiation meeting. That isn't being part of the "big boys". In the union that I belong to, we have to agree to a certain code of behavior when we are either part of negotiations or just observing. Yelling at someone would get us out of the meeting asap. Being yelled at would do the same for our administrators. I don't know if my experience is typical. I hope it is. In any case, I've lost all respect for Gaudenzi. Even if Pospoisil should know more, and even if he makes mistakes, he's spending a lot of time and energy (which hasn't helped his play) trying to do what's best for the ATP. I don't see him as being spoiled or self serving. It's insane that labor and management are all wrapped up in the same organization. I get that the PTPA may be flawed, perhaps seriously. Maybe it's just a bad first step. But it is a step. I wish the players luck in whatever way they can organize.

Kevin

by JazzNU Kevin, your experience is not typical. See the NFL post I included above. There are many other examples, particularly when dealing with sports. Labor negotiations, they aren't pretty. The labor negotiations you are having also aren't anything like what these players are attempting. Plus, you're already IN a union. To go from nothing to into a union? Even nastier.

I have no idea what industry you are in. But I can tell you that while I believe the account of what you've seen. I have a hard time believing your union's heads and your company's heads and representation are completely dignified when the union membership is not there. If they are, it's a rarity where both are mostly on the same page and not a lot contentious points need to be hammered out.

I can't stress enough how what Pospisil described is child's play. I had more heated exchanges than that working Clinic when I was still in school. This is nothing. And sorry, but him making mistakes? Truly that's on him. He signed up for this. If he didn't know what he signed up for, again, that's on him. They put themselves into these leadership roles saying they could do it. They need to rise to the occasion if they want anything to come of it. Throwing a tantrum on court because he got yelled at the day before? Not the look of good leadership. If that was me they were yelling at the night before? I'd push back forcefully similar to Domonique in the NFL. If things were getting out of control. I'd end the meeting immediately and call whoever the heck these guys have hired to represent them. But I wouldn't be showing any version of the weakness we are seeing from Vasek. The ATP is looking for this, will feed off of this. PTPA just blinked and that's just not good.

FWIW, Djokovic is an a-hole at his core and that comes in handy. I'm guessing Novak would've responded more forcefully when pushed and we would be hearing a much different story today. Vasek exposed himself here as a shaky self-appointed leadership selection. He's always seemed like a nice guy. Nice guys can definitely get eaten alive in a labor negotiation context. Like I said, you need to be a shark.

Also, was the ATP leadership always going to be in Miami? Or they just showed up unexpectedly? I imagine it's the former because I seem to remember this being the norm in years past at both IW and Miami. A gross miscalculation on Novak's part to skip Miami if they were always going to be here.

by ti-amie I think there is always a big ATP meeting in Miami so you're right. Djokovic bailing is kind of odd.

by JazzNU FWIW, I'm just sharing information as I see it. I don't have a dog in this race. If they end up unionizing or if the other idea of combining the tours happens, whatever. As long as the players as a whole actually know what they are getting into. I don't have much faith that they do because from what I've seen, they like the idea of what is being sold to them, but very few have been able to articulate actual detailed legal and financial knowledge of what they are trying to do. There were quotes when the PTPA formed where they essentially admitted as much from players that joined in. They should all have 250 page booklets detailing every step.

That's concerning. When you try to blow up the status quo, I'd like it if you were going in with your eyes wide open. Because I want them to know what they stand to lose, not just what they stand to gain. Every single player that is on board with this unionization either formally or informally should have a 250-page booklet at home and on their computers detailing every single aspect of what it is the union is trying to do, how it will interface with the ATP, the tournaments, the umpires, prize money, penalties, healthcare, time off. Every minute benefit to unionizing, and what happens if that part of the negotiation doesn't work should be spelled out in great detail.

I don't have any ill will towards them trying to form a union or whatever else. I'm just seeing a highly flawed process. I'm no fan of Novak's but I mostly don't even care that this is his thing. As long as this doesn't involve Mr. Aggravated Assault rising to the helm eventually, I don't care if this works for them. Again, I just hope they know what they are doing. Quotes from random players, but also from Novak himself have never led me to believe that they actually do.

by ponchi101 I believe your last lines are the core. What is it this PTPA wants? How are they different than the ATP? What is the plan?
Because I don't know, and we have been on top of this from the beginning.

by ti-amie

by the Moz The bigger question for me isn't why he dumped on the Chair. I think too many players view the Chair as a punching bag anyway. My question would be why did a grown man sit around and take a verbal lashing when he could have just walked out on the meeting?

by the Moz

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:09 pm

Too bad Ram won't have a follow up tweet replacing 'Vasek' with 'the Chair' & #Chairrespect.

Vasek's actions on court yesterday were pathetic and had nothing to do with the meeting prior. Must be a special kind of entitlement that he issues a classic lame public apology with the requisite 'but I did it because...' The only person you owe an apology to is the Chair, not spectators or anyone else. His apology should have been done in private. But he wanted it public for attention and to gain sympathy. Lame & pathetic. And prior to his association with this bogus break off union I found him to be a gentleman for the most part.

by Deuce

the Moz wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:26 pm
Too bad Ram won't have a follow up tweet replacing 'Vasek' with 'the Chair' & #Chairrespect.

Vasek's actions on court yesterday were pathetic and had nothing to do with the meeting prior.

^ First off, that's wrong. While his actions on court were out of line, they were quite obviously directly related to the meeting which Vasek referenced a few times during his 'meltdown'.

the Moz wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:26 pm Must be a special kind of entitlement that he issues a classic lame public apology with the requisite 'but I did it because...' The only person you owe an apology to is the Chair, not spectators or anyone else. His apology should have been done in private. But he wanted it public for attention and to gain sympathy. Lame & pathetic. And prior to his association with this bogus break off union I found him to be a gentleman for the most part.

I have no idea why you feel the need to dump on Vasek so strongly. Unless you know him personally, the types of accusations you aim at him are mere conjecture (of unknown origin), and are unwarranted.
Why so much vitriol toward Vasek? Has he done something terrible to you personally?
Vasek is a player who has always been well respected by his peers... he has always respected the game... In my brief experiences with him, he's always been very nice and respectful... All I would say about him in this context is that he's not the type of person that enjoys confrontation, and so he seems to be out of place as a leader of this new association. That's precisely why he was so deeply affected by what occurred in the meeting - because he's not the confrontational type. While his actions during that match were unacceptable, I can certainly understand how he was feeling.

From what I do know of Vasek, his apology is quite sincere.
When you refer to 'the Chair', are you referring to Chairman Gaudenzi of the ATP, or the Chair Umpire of the match during which Vasek had his 'meltdown'? It seems to me that you're referring to the Chair Umpire. If that is the case, Vasek didn't go after the Chair Umpire at all. He was ranting about Gaudenzi the entire time. He was obviously hurt and frustrated and was not in control of his emotions. But he never attacked the Chair Umpire that I saw - all he said about him was 'Go ahead and default me, and I'll sue this whole organization'.

For his part, the Chair Umpire, I feel, reacted well - he was obviously surprised at Vasek's outburst and asked him 'What's going on with you?' - because he knows that that kind of behaviour is so out of character for Vasek. Then he told Vasek that if he has a problem with Gaudenzi, he needs to take it up with Gaudenzi, as during a match is not the right place or time.

In summarry, I agree that Vasek's behaviour on the court was out of line. As he mentioned, he disrespected the game, and that's unacceptable. He has apologized.
Vasek has been on the tour for nearly 10 years. His reputation is good. This is the first time he's done something like this, and it was the result of a unique situation where his emotions simply boiled over. And all you can do is lay into him? Maybe you should take a step back and get a more accurate perspective.

by the Moz ^^Was the Chair umpire at the meeting? Did the Chair umpire berate him and make him cry? His emotions were a consequence of the meeting. Yet to my knowledge the only person at both the meeting and on court was Vasek.

Why so much vitriol? Clearly I'm cranky today. But I also loathe a fake sorry. Say sorry and mean it for real or don't apologize. There are no 'buts' with sorry for me.

Go ahead and default me, and I'll sue this whole organization'. All he did was hurl a threat at him? To intimidate him instead of hitting the ball over the net? Okay, fair enough

And all you can do is lay into him? Please note the final sentence of my vitriol post starting with 'And' and ending with 'part'.

That is all from me on this. And I'm not apologizing

by Deuce As I said - knowing what I know of Vasek, his apology is sincere.
What exactly makes you think his apology is 'fake' or insincere? Is it his history, which even you agree has been that of a gentleman?
Bizarre....

I still feel that he in no way mistreated the Chair Umpire. He was upset, and the emotions came out.
The Chair Umpire certainly didn't feel that he was in any way the target of his 'meltdown' at any point, or he would have been more severe with him. Instead, the Umpire seemed confused, as this was so out of character for Vasek, and, recognizing that Vasek was essentially in some type of emotional distress, tried his best to calm him down.
If the Umpire didn't feel that he himself was attacked, or that he was ever the target of Vasek's anger, I have no idea why you feel he was.
You're certainly attacking Vasek here far more than Vasek attacked the Chair Umpire...

There were emotional remnants from his meeting with the ATP brass the day before. That's real. As a result, Vasek was in a fragile emotional state, and that would have come out no matter who the umpire was, and probably would have come out no matter what he was doing, be it on a tennis court or not - it just had to come out.

by the Moz Compliment back pedal: I do like his tennis. Patchy yes, but he's a Wimbledon champ and an effective S&Ver

And once more with feeling: There are no buts in an apology.

by Deuce I found this recent article about Leylah... It was originally written in French, and translated with several errors into English. I’ve taken the English translation and cleaned it up, by referring to the original French version.

Louis Borfiga is mentioned in the article. In late 2019, I asked Borfiga where he thought Andreescu and Fernandez would be in 3 years from then. He said that Andreescu would be “#1 or #2 in the world”, and that Leylah would be “Around #50” in the world. I disagreed with him and said that Andreescu will be between #20 and #30, and Leylah would be ranked higher than her.
I also told Sylvain Bruneau in 2019 that Leylah will eventually be the best female player that Canada has. He was coaching Andreescu at the time, and just smiled and said “We’ll see.” (Of course, these conversations took place before COVID-19 changed the world.)

The Quiet Warrior

At 5'4 '', she does not have the physical profile of the vast majority of professional tennis players. But like many athletes before her, Leylah Annie Fernandez compensates otherwise.
Sylvain Bruneau, head coach of the National Women's Program at Tennis Canada (and Bianca Andreescu’s coach), was not surprised to see the young Quebecer clinch her first WTA Tour title on Sunday night. For him, this is just the continuation of an ascent that has unfolded without episodes of stagnation until now.
“She’s had a great transition to the pros. She’s done it without complications and she continues to progress,” he notes.
Bruneau addresses the physical aspect as well. Despite being rather small and "petite", Fernandez "absorbs the speed of the ball well", limiting what could be a disadvantage caused by her size.

And then there is the rest.
“She has a great game, she takes the ball early, she is able to make nice variations, she plays smart. And she has a fighting spirit, a tenacity,” underlines the coach. "You are going to tell me that all the other girls on the circuit are also combative and tenacious. Yes, but Leylah has something extra. She is extremely determined; she has a quiet passion. She really is a warrior."

Bruneau likes the way the Québécoise is managed, as well.
Bianca Andreescu and Fernandez trained together twice in Australia, and Bruneau appreciated what he saw from Romain Derrider, the French coach of the one who has just triumphed in Monterrey.
“I really like his vision, his presence. And I like how he handles it all,” summarizes Andreescu's coach.

At high speed
For his part, Louis Borfiga, vice-president of elite development at Tennis Canada for the past 15 years, was surprised. Not in the sense that he believed Fernandez incapable of this accomplishment, but the pace at which she is skipping steps.
“Once again, Leylah amazed me. Winning a WTA tournament at 18 and the way she played the final was impressive,” he notes. “Each time, she pleasantly surprises me by exceeding the hopes that I have for her. She won the Junior Roland-Garros, she beat a top 10 in the Fed Cup [the Swiss Belinda Bencic, a little over a year ago], now she has won a WTA tournament..."

Fernandez, as Borfiga recalls, is only 18 years old. She will celebrate her 19th birthday on September 6 - the Monday of the second week of the US Open. We can bet that her goal is to highlight the event on one of the Flushing Meadows courts, after being stopped in the second round last year.
Because, as she said to whoever would listen during the off-season, she has an eye on the top 10 this year. A bold goal. But, again, Bruneau is not surprised.
“I know the values and the state of mind that her dad [who was/is her coach] instilled in her. So I know where she's coming from and that she's thinking big. She is reserved, but full of ambition."

More experience than it seems
In 2019, the Fernandez reached the final of two junior Grand Slams: finalist in Australia and winner at Roland-Garros. And then she won an ITF title (Gatineau) as well, and followed that the very next week with a loss in the Final of a larger ITF tournament.
Seeded second in qualifying for the WTA 1000 in Miami, she lost to Romania's Mihaela Buzarnescu, the same player that Bianca Andreescu had beaten on her return to competition last month.
Andreescu is the 8th seed in this important tournament, the last before the clay season begins.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie diego schwartzman @dieschwartzman
Hola a todos!!! Quiero aclarar que respondí a @BenRothenberg en inglés lo cual no es mi especialidad... que me voy a vacunar cuando llegue mi turno que no me daría la vacuna antes que mi familia y la gente que realmente lo necesita. Quizás mi inglés no fue claro.
Translated from Spanish by Google
Hello everyone!!! I want to clarify that I responded to @BenRothenberg in English which is not my specialty ... that I am going to get vaccinated when my turn comes that I would not get the vaccine before my family and the people who really need it. Maybe my English was not clear.

Quería aclararlo porque quizás por culpa de responder en inglés no pude experesarme correctamente. Abrazo Raising
Translated from Spanish by Google
I wanted to clarify it because perhaps because of answering in English I could not experience myself correctly. Hug

by ponchi101 Good for Diego to clarify. A reminder that not only there are a lot of players that are very young, English is not their first language.

by JazzNU The question is serious enough that I wish they were asked the question and allowed to respond in their native language. No need to contribute to vaccine hesitancy.

Also, very uneven vaccine rollouts depending on your country, not to mention confidence in makers, which might contribute to these answers. Naomi, for instance, has been the US for the large majority of the pandemic and is likely talking about getting a vaccine here where we don't have leaders questioning vaccines causing blood clots and pausing distribution. Allie Kiick is in the replies saying she'll gladly be the first in line when it is opened for her age group.

I'm not clear on why Ben asked this specific group, but I'm not sure that asking an American resident, a Hungarian, a Russian, a Belarussian, a Ukrainian, and an Argentinian is necessarily a showcase of eagerness/hesitancy on tour. It is standing out to me who he chose to ask. He also left out of his starting post and tacked on at the end that Halep has already been vaccinated and that she did so publicly to help with confidence in getting it.

by Deuce

JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:57 am The question is serious enough that I wish they were asked the question and allowed to respond in their native language. No need to contribute to vaccine hesitancy.

^ I agree. This is too important a matter to have to play around with language. This isn't a trivial thing like 'Why wasn't your second serve working tonight?'
The players should take the initiative and answer in their own language regardless of what language it's asked in.
And if they feel they don't fully understand the question, they should ask for a translation.

But something could be lost/misinterpreted in the translation, too, of course...

by Deuce So... who do you think has the best one-handed backhand in tennis today?

Thiem? No.

Shapovalov? No.

Tsitsipas? No.

Wawrinka? No.

Gasquet? Dimitrov? Federer?
No... No... No.

Here is my nomination...

.

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:53 am Good for Diego to clarify. A reminder that not only there are a lot of players that are very young, English is not their first language.

I'm not 100% sure he made the "clarification" because he didn't express himself in English. My guess is his people and maybe the Argentinian government gave him a talking to.

by ponchi101

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:17 am So... who do you think has the best one-handed backhand in tennis today?

Thiem? No.

Shapovalov? No.

Tsitsipas? No.

Wawrinka? No.

Gasquet? Dimitrov? Federer?
No... No... No.

Here is my nomination...

....

I forget which Russian basketball great ended up playing basketball because when he was a kid, he played that way, with a forehand on both sides and his coaches told him that was not the way to play. So he said "forget it" and took up basketball.
Let's hope that kids makes it. The sole problem I see there will be with his volleys. From the back court you have time to switch hands, but I don't think you have enough time when at the net.
Do you know if he has two serves? Luke Jensen revisited?

by ti-amie

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:46 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:53 am Good for Diego to clarify. A reminder that not only there are a lot of players that are very young, English is not their first language.
I'm not 100% sure he made the "clarification" because he didn't express himself in English. My guess is his people and maybe the Argentinian government gave him a talking to.

by ti-amie

by Liamvalid

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:18 pm

That table is mad, half of them never won a title as world number 1, some not even reaching a final.
But go Venus, losing only to ranks 1 & 2 in her stint

by skatingfan

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:35 pm That table is mad, half of them never won a title as world number 1, some not even reaching a final.
But go Venus, losing only to ranks 1 & 2 in her stint

Losing to #1 while ranked #1 - how many loses would Venus have if she didn't beat herself?

by Liamvalid

skatingfan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:39 pm
Liamvalid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:35 pm That table is mad, half of them never won a title as world number 1, some not even reaching a final.
But go Venus, losing only to ranks 1 & 2 in her stint
Losing to #1 while ranked #1 - how many loses would Venus have if she didn't beat herself?

Haha oh yeah, just rank 2 then!! Wonder if it was Serena or Lindsay that beat her those 2 times?

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:50 pm

I wasn't sure what Ben was going for other than this. Why only ask 5 players? And why those specific players when you've had easy access to dozens of other well known players the last two weeks?

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:39 pm I forget which Russian basketball great ended up playing basketball because when he was a kid, he played that way, with a forehand on both sides and his coaches told him that was not the way to play. So he said "forget it" and took up basketball.
Let's hope that kids makes it. The sole problem I see there will be with his volleys. From the back court you have time to switch hands, but I don't think you have enough time when at the net.
Do you know if he has two serves? Luke Jensen revisited?

The kid is a natural righty, but he serves left-handed - likely because it's more effective because opponents have less experience with lefty serves. So I assume he can also serve right-handed.

I haven't seen his net play, but I'm assuming that he'll play right-handed at the net.

I was just struck with the natural ease with which he hits forehands on both sides. Same style and everything.
If he can develop and progress this way, we might well be discussing him here in 8 or 10 years.

by JazzNU I was thinking about the St. Petersburg Open. There were several young Russian players who I've never heard of. I hope we see more of them, there was some true talent there. But I know I've thought the same in the past about other players and rarely see them again outside of whatever local tournament gives out wild cards to these players. And I've always thought it comes down to funding. If you can't afford to travel, can't afford a coach, and are given limited resources from their tennis association, it's gotta be hard to move up the rankings when you're starting out.

So as I watched Bublik compete very well against Sinner. And then think of Rybakina, Putintseva, Shvedova, etc. I think these Russian-born players that switched their allegiance to Kazakhstan likely played the right hand. Because I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that despite their respective talents and the success we've seen them have on tour, they very well may have been those talented young Russian players we see at a St. Petersburg Open and hope we see again, but rarely do.

by ti-amie Tennis April Fools:

by Deuce A somewhat interesting article on Leylah...

http://itf.uberflip.com/i/1357828-itfwo ... ing-2021/5

(Double click to enlarge enough to read, swipe left or something for page 2 of article.)

.

by skatingfan

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:50 pm Haha oh yeah, just rank 2 then!! Wonder if it was Serena or Lindsay that beat her those 2 times?

I think you missed the point of that spreadsheet - Venus was 9-2 while ranked #1 for the 11 weeks that held that ranking - she only played two tournaments, made the finals both times, and lost to Clijsters & Serena respectively.

by Liamvalid

skatingfan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:10 am
Liamvalid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:50 pm Haha oh yeah, just rank 2 then!! Wonder if it was Serena or Lindsay that beat her those 2 times?
I think you missed the point of that spreadsheet - Venus was 9-2 while ranked #1 for the 11 weeks that held that ranking - she only played two tournaments, made the finals both times, and lost to Clijsters & Serena respectively.

There were other girls who played roughly the same amount of matches as Venus but still managed to lose to players ranked well below them, that was MY point. Nothing wrong with giving old V a bit of credit, she was a better player than most of the women above her on that list

by ponchi101 Venus' 11 weeks at #1 is the subject of major trivia question. Ask any sports fan that does not follow tennis like we do to guess how many weeks she was #1 and I gather the average count will be 50.

by the Moz

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:49 pm Venus' 11 weeks at #1 is the subject of major trivia question. Ask any sports fan that does not follow tennis like we do to guess how many weeks she was #1 and I gather the average count will be 50.

Venus is far too often grouped with her (by the numbers) far more successful younger sister leading to 'an aura' that might read more fanciful than reality.

by ti-amie Venus career will always have an asterisk called Sjogren's. It took 7 years for the correct diagnosis of her symptoms to be made. If she had been healthy that whole time I can only speculate what her career might have been.

by Deuce “My dad said one day he’s going to engrave his name on the trophy, because it was all his hard work. So I’m like, ‘You know what? I think it would be a good idea to engrave our whole family on it, because it’s a family affair."
- Leylah Annie Fernandez.

(Her dad was kidding, by the way... But Leylah wasn't.)

by ponchi101 Somebody in the Djokovic management camp has to talk to his dad:
Novak Djokovic's dad launches verbal volley at Roger Federer
The best part of it:
"About 15 years ago Federer attacked my son when he was still young, he was 18 or 19 years old," said Djokovic senior in an interview on Serbian TV reported by The Sun.

"I knew someone would be there who would be better than him. So I said that [Federer] was a great champion, the best at the time.

"But as much as he is a great champion, Federer is not such a good man. It is obvious that foreign media outlets do not have the best opinion of us and think that we are constantly bothering them."

This man is bordering on obsession.
I have said it before: he simply does not understand that what he does is hurt Novak with opinions like this. And it is Ok if Novak and Roger do not like each other, but they have always been respectful of each other. So statements like this from Djokovic Sr really help no one.

by ti-amie The comments made by one of the comms re Badosa's chances against Barty got me thinking. First of all many US comms only watch top ten players or US players. Second, the year off gave a lot of players time to heal and work on their games.

Just a thought.

by JazzNU An article I read about takeaways from Miami

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I said it in the Monte Carlo topic. He really looks like he really can't care less about the sport. He is a poster child for burn out.
And his inability to grasp where he is and what he is doing, and put it in perspective, is worrisome. You just spent a Sunday afternoon, in Monte Carlo, playing tennis. You lost and still got paid.
Meanwhile, in the real world...

by ponchi101 Changing subjects.
The WTA does not disappoint at all. Two new winners in the same weekend, the highest ranked one being #38. We are going to be hearing about a lot of new players every week.

by ti-amie Benoit is not getting WC's into tournaments he's ranked high enough to be seeded or get into the MD's. If he needs a break and it seems like he does, get out of the way so that some other players who really would've liked the chance to play at Monte Carlo can get into the MD.

As for the WTA people on Tennis Twitter are taking them to task for how the Volvo Open described Kudermetova as "virtually unknown". If you watch tennis you'd know she's been doing well this season and that if the draw broke her way she had a good chance to do well.

by dmforever

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:42 pm

I totally get that he is burnt out. I can actually even respect that. On the one hand, it can seem a glamorous life and he is well paid, but on the other hand, the constant pressure and traveling, and now dealing with Covid bubbles could be really hard. I'm not one to judge because I will never have to deal with that. (Covid, obviously yes, but not in the same way). But saying everyone else thinks the same thing is ridiculous. He will realize how good he had it, even when it was hard, when he can no longer qualify directly into Masters 10000 or 500 tournaments and is having a hard time supporting himself. For me, that's the key part of it. He's unable to see how privileged he is. He should really take some time off, get psychological / emotional help and support, and then reevaluate. There are too many other guys who would love to be in his position, though I guess that will take care of itself soon enough.

Kevin

by Suliso Being paid a lot is not a guard against burn out. It's even surprising it doesn't happen more often to top level athletes. Or maybe it does, but they are not this vocal about it.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:55 pm Benoit is not getting WC's into tournaments he's ranked high enough to be seeded or get into the MD's. If he needs a break and it seems like he does, get out of the way so that some other players who really would've liked the chance to play at Monte Carlo can get into the MD.

As for the WTA people on Tennis Twitter are taking them to task for how the Volvo Open described Kudermetova as "virtually unknown". If you watch tennis you'd know she's been doing well this season and that if the draw broke her way she had a good chance to do well.

Ted Robinson was no help in this regard. He kept saying "all the seeds are gone" even though Jabeaur and Kudermetova were both seeds into the semifinals. It made it seem like they came out of nowhere to get this. Veronika has been playing well for over 2 years, she is more than capable of this kind of play against top players. If things broke her way and she was playing well, she could've beaten a much more impressive group of players had they been put in front of her with the way she was playing this week.

And how skewed the coverage can be, let me also point out that none of this would have been said by Ted and plenty of others if Shelby Rogers had gotten through the draw. She doesn't have a title to her name, has barely cracked the top 50 in her entire career, but they'd have been nothing but glowing had she been in the finals or the winner. It's messed up.

Benoit is in massive trouble once the rankings fully correct. He doesn't appear to be in the mindset he was 2 years ago when he dropped down to challengers to play. He's missing every bit of that drive and work ethic that he found for a time. Has openly said before now, he's only doing it for the money now. Unless he finds that drive one again, seems like he'll really fade away in the next year. 2-15 since last fall I believe.

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:35 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:55 pm Benoit is not getting WC's into tournaments he's ranked high enough to be seeded or get into the MD's. If he needs a break and it seems like he does, get out of the way so that some other players who really would've liked the chance to play at Monte Carlo can get into the MD.

As for the WTA people on Tennis Twitter are taking them to task for how the Volvo Open described Kudermetova as "virtually unknown". If you watch tennis you'd know she's been doing well this season and that if the draw broke her way she had a good chance to do well.

Ted Robinson was no help in this regard. He kept saying "all the seeds are gone" even though Jabeaur and Kudermetova were both seeds into the semifinals. It made it seem like they came out of nowhere to get this. Veronika has been playing well for over 2 years, she is more than capable of this kind of play against top players. If things broke her way and she was playing well, she could've beaten a much more impressive group of players had they been put in front of her with the way she was playing this week.

And how skewed the coverage can be, let me also point out that none of this would have been said by Ted and plenty of others if Shelby Rogers had gotten through the draw. She doesn't have a title to her name, has barely cracked the top 50 in her entire career, but they'd have been nothing but glowing had she been in the finals or the winner. It's messed up.

Benoit is in massive trouble once the rankings fully correct. He doesn't appear to be in the mindset he was 2 years ago when he dropped down to challengers to play. He's missing every bit of that drive and work ethic that he found for a time. Has openly said before now, he's only doing it for the money now. Unless he finds that drive one again, seems like he'll really fade away in the next year. 2-15 since last fall I believe.

It never ceases to amaze me that US comms don't seem to know jack about what is going on in tennis. They only know US players and those in the Top Ten with massive PR behind them. I'd be willing to bet they don't know who Maria Camila is.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:44 am It never ceases to amaze me that US comms don't seem to know jack about what is going on in tennis. They only know US players and those in the Top Ten with massive PR behind them. I'd be willing to bet they don't know who Maria Camila is.

It's ridiculous. I kid you not, during the doubles match Ted was surprised to learn than Lucie Hradecka had a very good singles career. I felt so bad for Lindsay as she had to work to correct what he was saying without calling him an idiot.

by Suliso Perhaps we don't appreciate how "special" we here are

by Deuce

Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:17 am Being paid a lot is not a guard against burn out. It's even surprising it doesn't happen more often to top level athletes. Or maybe it does, but they are not this vocal about it.

One could also say "Being paid a lot is not a guard against burn out. It's even surprising it doesn't happen more often to top level athletes. Or maybe it does, but they are not this bitter about it."

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:44 am It never ceases to amaze me that US comms don't seem to know jack about what is going on in tennis. They only know US players and those in the Top Ten with massive PR behind them. I'd be willing to bet they don't know who Maria Camila is.

^ It's not just in tennis. America has a reputation in the world of thinking that America is not only the center of the universe, but that it is the entire universe.
Toronto has a similar reputation within Canada.

by mmmm8 Benoit Paire is not suffering from "burnout." He's been suffering from self-absorbed and drama-seeking behavior his whole career and is very sad fewer people are around to watch his antics and give him the attention he craves.

by ti-amie

by Fastbackss Deuce is on it...you think US coverage of tennis is bad...let me tell you a little story about some sporting event called "the Olympics" ,,,,

by ti-amie Victoria is talking about Stef's idiocy towards the chair today in Monte Carlo

by JTContinental I have never heard anyone contend that the player is always right

by ponchi101 We should ask the players

I believe Miss Victoria has a valid point. Players at all levels and all sports are seeing Refs as not to be trusted. I will call the NBA players on that: every and all whistles are immediately questioned. Even if you have the teeth of the opposing player embedded in your elbow.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:40 pm We should ask the players
I believe Miss Victoria has a valid point. Players at all levels and all sports are seeing Refs as not to be trusted. I will call the NBA players on that: every and all whistles are immediately questioned. Even if you have the teeth of the opposing player embedded in your elbow.

Yes

by meganfernandez

JTContinental wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:26 pm I have never heard anyone contend that the player is always right

Me neither. Usually the player is wrong, IMO.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:40 pm We should ask the players
I believe Miss Victoria has a valid point. Players at all levels and all sports are seeing Refs as not to be trusted. I will call the NBA players on that: every and all whistles are immediately questioned. Even if you have the teeth of the opposing player embedded in your elbow.

I think a lot of that is about entertainment, too. A lot of NBA players and other star athletes are aware they are putting on a show and/or there's some value in pressuring a ref. Also probably an outlet for frustration.

Then there's this, which happened in Indy last weekend: Ref-parent violence, not ref-player.
https://fanbuzz.com/high-school/indiana ... ree-fight/

by ponchi101 Well, the sport will get rid of the judges soon. And then, as I have said, I hope they replace the chair with a black monolith with the voice of HAL calling the score and the violations:
"No HAL 9000 chair umpire has ever made a mistake, Stefanos. The score is 0-40, plus a time violation and a warning. Do carry on".

by ptmcmahon You need to replay that point!

I'm sorry, Stefanos... I'm afraid can't do that.

by ti-amie Ah the "good old days".

by the Moz Would be an amusing addition to the Newport festivities if Serena's future HOF induction included clips of her US Open triptych of for shame moments:

09 ball in throat 11 loser & ugly inside 18 liar & thief

p.s. Martina Jr obviously is no slouch in the petulant behaviour department. Serena's bust ups are far superior although RG 99 is a career highlight for my Swiss Miss.

by ti-amie Anyone know what this means?

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:47 pm Anyone know what this means?

My first thought was the March 11 attacks on the trains in Madrid in 2004, but why would Djokovic me marking that on his shoes at a tournament in Monaco.

So my second thought is this:

Angel Number 311, or 311 Numerology, represents growth, change, and transformation. 311 is the number of development in every area of your life, including but not limited to relationships, work and career, health, spirituality, personal finances, happiness, creativity, and freedom of expression.

https://subconsciousservant.com/angel-n ... expression.

And since it's Djokovic I'm guessing it's the second one.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Posted by VyRa | esq. on well known ATP Fan Site

Today's post 2R match press conference:
(original quotes, transcripted by myself from audio to text)

Question: "How comfortable are you when your father gave interviews ? Are you proud of him in those occasions or sometimes you think: "Okay daddy, stop talking please" like we [journalist] used to do with our parents ?"

Djokovic: "Hahaha, Well, look you know I love my father. My father is the greatest support that I had, especially in the early days but you know, obviously I can't affect what he says you know. It is what it is you know. Everyone thinks with their own head. I have to accept it and respect it. My father is a very passionate man. He protects me, he loves me. And I know that he does it with the purest and best intentions for me but obviously you know we all maybe say or do things that maybe some other people get offended by that or something like that and I understand that. So I mean, look ah I still stand by my father and whatever he is doing you know we are family , so of course I am gonna stay on his side and protect him but I can't always agree with everything he says."

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:58 pm

Isn't the baby due soon?

by meganfernandez It's a band. He must love "All Mixed Up."

Actually, it's his record # of weeks at #1

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:47 pm Anyone know what this means?

by ponchi101 It is actually "one more week at #1 than Roger", because he is by now above 311. 311 was reached on March 8th.
But as Megan says.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:05 pm ...

Question: "How comfortable are you when your father gave interviews ? Are you proud of him in those occasions or sometimes you think: "Okay daddy, stop talking please" like we [journalist] used to do with our parents ?"

Djokovic: "Hahaha, Well, look you know I love my father. And he hates Roger. My father is the greatest support that I had, especially in the early days but you know, obviously I can't affect what he says you know. And he hates RogerIt is what it is you know. And he hates Roger Everyone thinks with their own head. And he hates Roger I have to accept it and respect it. And he hates Roger My father is a very passionate man And he hates Roger. He protects me, he loves me. And he hates Roger And I know that he does it with the purest and best intentions for me but obviously you know we all maybe say or do things that maybe some other people get offended by that or something like that and I understand that. And he hates Roger So I mean, look ah I still stand by my father and whatever he is doing you know we are family , so of course I am gonna stay on his side and protect him but I can't always agree with everything he says. And he hates Roger"

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:45 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:05 pm ...

Question: "How comfortable are you when your father gave interviews ? Are you proud of him in those occasions or sometimes you think: "Okay daddy, stop talking please" like we [journalist] used to do with our parents ?"

Djokovic: "Hahaha, Well, look you know I love my father. And he hates Roger. My father is the greatest support that I had, especially in the early days but you know, obviously I can't affect what he says you know. And he hates RogerIt is what it is you know. And he hates Roger Everyone thinks with their own head. And he hates Roger I have to accept it and respect it. And he hates Roger My father is a very passionate man And he hates Roger. He protects me, he loves me. And he hates Roger And I know that he does it with the purest and best intentions for me but obviously you know we all maybe say or do things that maybe some other people get offended by that or something like that and I understand that. And he hates Roger So I mean, look ah I still stand by my father and whatever he is doing you know we are family , so of course I am gonna stay on his side and protect him but I can't always agree with everything he says. And he hates Roger"

Well done.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:41 pm It is actually "one more week at #1 than Roger", because he is by now above 311. 311 was reached on March 8th.
But as Megan says.

For me, it's a bit of a weird flex. He's already at a more impressive 315 or 316. It's not like getting the Grand Slams etched. It's increasing every week. I'd get it more if he was given a new pair every week with the new number,

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:45 pm Question: "How comfortable are you when your father gave interviews ? Are you proud of him in those occasions or sometimes you think: "Okay daddy, stop talking please" like we [journalist] used to do with our parents ?"

Djokovic: "Hahaha, Well, look you know I love my father. And he hates Roger. My father is the greatest support that I had, especially in the early days but you know, obviously I can't affect what he says you know. And he hates RogerIt is what it is you know. And he hates Roger Everyone thinks with their own head. And he hates Roger I have to accept it and respect it. And he hates Roger My father is a very passionate man And he hates Roger. He protects me, he loves me. And he hates Roger And I know that he does it with the purest and best intentions for me but obviously you know we all maybe say or do things that maybe some other people get offended by that or something like that and I understand that. And he hates Roger So I mean, look ah I still stand by my father and whatever he is doing you know we are family , so of course I am gonna stay on his side and protect him but I can't always agree with everything he says. And he hates Roger"

Novak:

by mmmm8

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:09 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:58 pm
Isn't the baby due soon?

She had the baby on March 11. Reportedly, he hasn't seen the child.

by the Moz Must be the soft heart that's keeping him away.

by meganfernandez

the Moz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:33 pm Must be the soft heart that's keeping him away.

haha. It could be the mom or his lawyers. That's sad, though. Did he even acknowledge it online? Did any tennis media?

by JazzNU

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:35 pm
the Moz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:33 pm Must be the soft heart that's keeping him away.
It could be the mom or his lawyers. That's sad, though. Did he even acknowledge it online? Did any tennis media?

Acknowledged by him? Definitely, but think most of it has been taken down. It's not amicable, looking like a custody or visitation fight is not out of the question. There are definitely lawyers involved here.

by the Moz

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:35 pm
the Moz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:33 pm Must be the soft heart that's keeping him away.
It could be the mom or his lawyers. That's sad, though. Did he even acknowledge it online? Did any tennis media?

With the social medial landscape before us, you'd expect something out there.

by meganfernandez

the Moz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:56 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:35 pm
the Moz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:33 pm Must be the soft heart that's keeping him away.
It could be the mom or his lawyers. That's sad, though. Did he even acknowledge it online? Did any tennis media?
With the social medial landscape before us, you'd expect something out there.

I guess there has been stuff, I just didn't see it and it appears the major tennis media hasn't reported it. Brenda posted a photo with the baby (just her hand), and her name is Mayla. Maybe there was more in German.

by meganfernandez

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:54 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:35 pm
the Moz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:33 pm Must be the soft heart that's keeping him away.
It could be the mom or his lawyers. That's sad, though. Did he even acknowledge it online? Did any tennis media?
Acknowledged by him? Definitely, but think most of it has been taken down. It's not amicable, looking like a custody or visitation fight is not out of the question. There are definitely lawyers involved here.

I meant did he acknowledge he birth. I didn't see anything on Instagram a month ago. I'm guessing he didn't, for custody or personal reasons, but I'm not drawing any further conclusions.

by ti-amie Jazz that is a great gif. I want that mug!

by JazzNU

by ti-amie Fognini has a logo too. It's not bad.

by meganfernandez you guys following the convo about appearance fees and Caitlin Thompson calling for the future PTPA to ban them? Craig Shapiro says Fed doesn't get out of bed for $2 million and Rafa and Novak only slightly less.Caitlin's theory is that the appearance fees cut directly into prize money. I doubt it'st hat simple, moving money from one pot to another. If those stars don't play, those events wouldn't bring in the same amount from sponsors. Heck, they might bring in less and actually dilute the prize pool. That $2 mill for Roger doesn't just come in the door anyway without him and go into prize money - that's my guess. We just don't know. Sponsors are ponying up because they think Roger will be there and do a meet-and-greet with clients.

by ti-amie Look if Shapo won't get out of bed for chump change why should the players who really put butts in the seats?

It's a situation that really does need to be discussed in the open and not behind closed doors. I look at it this way. It's similar to an advance in the publishing world. If Stephen King says he's going to write a book, and Joe Blow says the same thing who is going to get a huge advance?

No matter how they hype the latest golfer if Tiger Woods is playing a tournament who has the biggest galley? Who gets the huge appearance fee?

by ponchi101 This was talked about and dissected to the bone in the 80's, specially after the Vilas trial. All permutations were thought of and, in the end, after Vilas was suspended for 6 months because he openly said he had accepted an appearance fee, everybody and his lawyers accepted that this was completely unregulatable and therefore the players could do it.
Borg retired with a little under $4MM in OFFICIAL prize money. Everybody knew he made, as a minimum, twice of that in appearance fees.

by JazzNU Maybe the amounts have gotten a bit out of control, but these tournaments aren't paying out appearance fees because they think they can get the same number of butts in the seats and eyes on the screens without them. I'm sure many went that route and found the results lackluster and so they pony up the appearance fees and get a return on their investment. Bring it out in the open if you want, but unless the public changes their behavior, hard to see this going away.

And the idea that the appearance fee money is taking away from other players doesn't ring true for me at all. What that appearance fee brings you disappears without those players, so no need to extend that money to other players who aren't the same kind of draw.

I don't want to see the sport take a step back, but would kind of like to see all these 500 tournaments revert to 250 money to see how many players then have the same complaints about appearance fees when associated sponsor money dries up like the Sahara when there's no longer a guarantee of any big names playing.

by Deuce I think the top 10 players should break away from the ATP/WTA and form a Superleague, where they play only against each other. Appearance money would be distributed on a sliding scale, based on the cumulative decibel level of applause that each player received in his/her previous tournament.

There is no point in having the #5 player play against the #118 qualifier - the best players should play against the best players all the time...

by meganfernandez Are these appearance fees just for non-mandatory events? Not 1000s and Slams? you think women get them, or just very selectively like Serena and Osaka and maybe a top player at a small event in their home country/

by JazzNU

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:51 pm Are these appearance fees just for non-mandatory events? Not 1000s and Slams? you think women get them, or just very selectively like Serena and Osaka and maybe a top player at a small event in their home country/

Not certain about which levels pay them out, though Doha and Dubai were rumored to be the highest at one point so I do think 1000s pay them out at times at least, but I don't think any slams do. But as for women, they absolutely get them and not just the very best of the best. The women are actually easier to identify who gets them many times. It's the ones who are doing the press for them. In non-covid times, fairly easy to identify the ones getting the biggest appearance fees even if you can't know all of them.

by ponchi101 Appearance money is up to the tournament. It is not regulated in any manner.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:55 pm Appearance money is up to the tournament. It is not regulated in any manner.

doesn't mean players have to take it. for the super-wealthy players, it's a little shameless ... except they might not even care. They might be willing to play without fees. Maybe they do it for their agents and staff. They have a lot of mouths to feed. And maybe appearance fee funds some players' foundations.

by the Moz Your appearance fee is the prize money earned by winning matches in a tournament you entered.

by Deuce Appearance fees are a type of built-in conflict of interest. You get your appearance money basically as long as you don't pull out of the tournament more than maybe a week before it starts.
If you lose in the first round - whether by being beaten, by default, or by retirement - you still have your appearance money - because you've 'done your job', which requires no effort at all, as the reward of appearance money is simply for having entered the tournament (and not withdrawn), and thus helped to sell 'X' number of tickets.

In all pro sports today, the money is nothing but a symbol of status. It's all about ego. It's a pissing contest - nothing more.
In team sports, 'player A' desperately needs to be paid more than 'player B' if 'player A' had 3 more RBIs, or 2 more goals, or 15 more rushing yards, than 'player B'.
It's the same with appearance money... Roger needs to get more than anyone else in order to retain his '#1 status'.
The actual amount of money is irrelevant, as these men and women all have enough money to live several lifetimes in luxury. There's no way anyone can spend the amount of money they have.
The pissing contest extends to material things - if 'player A' feels he's better than 'player B', he must announce that to the world - so if 'player B' has 2 Ferraris, then 'player A' must have 3 Lamborghinis. It's all about how you look compared to others.
It's all about ego. Even in tennis.

by ponchi101 Devil's advocate: Tournament X will make 50% more money by putting me on their promotional poster. And I am not going to get a slice of THAT pie?
Sure.

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:51 pm Devil's advocate: Tournament X will make 50% more money by putting me on their promotional poster. And I am not going to get a slice of THAT pie?
Sure.

Plus, taking Roger as an example, he does a lot more off court & that's part of the appearance fee compensation.

by Liamvalid

skatingfan wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:53 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:51 pm Devil's advocate: Tournament X will make 50% more money by putting me on their promotional poster. And I am not going to get a slice of THAT pie?
Sure.
Plus, taking Roger as an example, he does a lot more off court & that's part of the appearance fee compensation.

Doesn’t Roger do these things anyway, and the appearance fees are incidental? That’s the way he’s always been painted

by skatingfan

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:30 am Doesn’t Roger do these things anyway, and the appearance fees are incidental? That’s the way he’s always been painted

That's certainly part of his personality, but it has also helped him to create a loyal fanbase around the world, which is why he gets the large appearance fees.

by ponchi101 History too. When appearances started, in some tournaments first round prize money was in the hundreds of dollars. Not that Borg or any of the big guys were worried about losing to Jucho Tornero in the first round of the Conde de Godo but, if that were to happen, going to the tournament would have cost them money (tickets for the team, hotel reservations for a week, all the logistics, the champagne and caviar, etc).
So it was also unfair to the lower players as they had more of a chance of losing in the first round AND not have an appearance fee, but the top players used that argument as further proof they needed the fees.
Remember: Connors at one time said, after losing in the first round, that he did not know what made him sicker: losing in the first round, or cashing his first round money. He was in the camp that first round losers should get no money.

by Suliso Top players make vast amounts of money, but costs of doing business for a top 20 player are high as well. There was recently a long interview with Daria Kasatkina and she revealed that in her best year (2018) she spent 600k for tennis related expenses. That includes salaries for the entire team, coach's share of winnings (typically 7-10%), travel for the entire team etc. Sure there was still left over for high end lifestyle too.

by JazzNU

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:30 am Doesn’t Roger do these things anyway, and the appearance fees are incidental? That’s the way he’s always been painted

I think it depends on what you're talking about. In general, I would say no he's not doing that anyway or at least he hasn't and not gotten paid for it in a long, long while. But the persona he has crafted seems to make people think he's doing things and not getting paid for it. Like, one might assume, he's home in Basel, he's doing promotion to help his hometown tournament. And it's like yeah, but he's getting about $1 million dollars to do whatever you're seeing around town so assuming he'd do it anyway is a stretch.

I remember at Wimbledon in 2019 people were lauding how gracious he was to personally congratulate Coco on her success at the tournament and it was painted as this, "well he's just that kind of nice guy" and then later on he was publicly urging the WTA to lift restrictions on her play. And it was painted as, oh, well he sees the talent and wants her to be able to flourish. And yeah, of course he sees her talent she's not a stranger, she'd already been signed to Team8 by the time she had her run at Wimbledon, but it was not remotely portrayed in this manner. He knew what he was doing, he knows the attention he gets. Not nearly as altruistic as people make things about him out to be. But he's crafted a persona so, "he's just that kind of guy" is what leads and will continue to.

And FWIW, while others may be more critical if they know this side of Roger, it has never been a criticism of mine. Federer is a brilliant businessman and one of the most impressive things about him as far as I'm concerned. He knows how to print money and I'm never anything but impressed with how craftily he does so.

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:26 pm
Liamvalid wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:30 am Doesn’t Roger do these things anyway, and the appearance fees are incidental? That’s the way he’s always been painted
I think it depends on what you're talking about. In general, I would say no he's not doing that anyway or at least he hasn't and not gotten paid for it in a long, long while. But the persona he has crafted seems to make people think he's doing things and not getting paid for it. Like, one might assume, he's home in Basel, he's doing promotion to help his hometown tournament. And it's like yeah, but he's getting about $1 million dollars to do whatever you're seeing around town so assuming he'd do it anyway is a stretch.

I remember at Wimbledon in 2019 people were lauding how gracious he was to personally congratulate Coco on her success at the tournament and it was painted as this, "well he's just that kind of nice guy" and then later on he was publicly urging the WTA to lift restrictions on her play. And it was painted as, oh, well he sees the talent and wants her to be able to flourish. And yeah, of course he sees her talent she's not a stranger, she'd already been signed to Team8 by the time she had her run at Wimbledon, but it was not remotely portrayed in this manner. He knew what he was doing, he knows the attention he gets. Not nearly as altruistic as people make things about him out to be. But he's crafted a persona so, "he's just that kind of guy" is what leads and will continue to.

And FWIW, while others may be more critical if they know this side of Roger, it has never been a criticism of mine. Federer is a brilliant businessman and one of the most impressive things about him as far as I'm concerned. He knows how to print money and I'm never anything but impressed with how craftily he does so.

People who pointed this out on Tennis Twitter got called haters for not buying into the "Fed God" mythology. The ATP and what passes for tennis journalism has aided in the creation of this persona.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Excellent points here

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:44 pm

... and this ^ despite the introduction of the 25 second clock and other measures to speed up/shorten matches.

And I'm quite fine with it. The longer the match, the closer it must be. The closer it is, the more interesting it is.
If those with short attention spans don't like it, too bad - they should go play a video game instead of watching tennis.

by dmforever This is a propos of absolutely nothing, but...

Why is the 3-letter code for Spain after Rafa's name ESP? Obviously it's the first three letters in that country's name in its native language, but even if you just look at countries that use the Roman alphabet, Hungary isn't MAG , Sweden isn't SVE, and Germany isn't DEU. I can't think of another country that would use SPA. I'm just curious.

Kevin

by JazzNU

dmforever wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:56 pm This is a propos of absolutely nothing, but...

Why is the 3-letter code for Spain after Rafa's name ESP? Obviously it's the first three letters in that country's name in its native language, but even if you just look at countries that use the Roman alphabet, Hungary isn't MAG , Sweden isn't SVE, and Germany isn't DEU. I can't think of another country that would use SPA. I'm just curious.

Kevin

Not about the native language. They are their IOC country codes. Traditionally, most IOC codes are based off the French spelling of the country name, but not all go by that. Not sure how long it lasted, but at one point IOC country codes altered based on the host country's language.

I've watched a few too many Olympics Opening Ceremonies.

by dmforever

JazzNU wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:06 am
dmforever wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:56 pm This is a propos of absolutely nothing, but...

Why is the 3-letter code for Spain after Rafa's name ESP? Obviously it's the first three letters in that country's name in its native language, but even if you just look at countries that use the Roman alphabet, Hungary isn't MAG , Sweden isn't SVE, and Germany isn't DEU. I can't think of another country that would use SPA. I'm just curious.

Kevin
Not about the native language. They are their IOC country codes. Traditionally, most IOC codes are based off the French spelling of the country name, but not all go by that. Not sure how long it lasted, but at one point IOC country codes altered based on the host country's language.

I've watched a few too many Olympics Opening Ceremonies.

Hmm, at first glance they don't appear to be widely based on French. The US certainly isn't. Nor are any of the others I mentioned. They all seem to be based on the English spelling except for Spain, hence my question. I'm in my 50's, and I don't think I've ever seen Hungary as MAG or Germany as DEU. It's weird how Spain is the outlier.

Kevin

by skatingfan https://stillmed.olympic.org/media/Docu ... 1619434610

by ptmcmahon

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:15 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:55 pm Appearance money is up to the tournament. It is not regulated in any manner.
doesn't mean players have to take it. for the super-wealthy players, it's a little shameless ... except they might not even care. They might be willing to play without fees. Maybe they do it for their agents and staff. They have a lot of mouths to feed. And maybe appearance fee funds some players' foundations.

Why wouldn't they take it though? It's mostly super wealthy players taking from the super wealthy tournaments...not like if they don't take it the tournament is then going to give it to less wealthy players.

by meganfernandez

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:21 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:15 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:55 pm Appearance money is up to the tournament. It is not regulated in any manner.
doesn't mean players have to take it. for the super-wealthy players, it's a little shameless ... except they might not even care. They might be willing to play without fees. Maybe they do it for their agents and staff. They have a lot of mouths to feed. And maybe appearance fee funds some players' foundations.
Why wouldn't they take it though? It's mostly super wealthy players taking from the super wealthy tournaments...not like if they don't take it the tournament is then going to give it to less wealthy players.

If the appearance fees are hurting the sport by depleting prize money, that's the reason not to take it. But we don't know if that theory is true. It has just been alleged.

by ponchi101 Plus the overall purses at all tournaments have increased considerably since the 80's (when the topic was discussed), far outpacing inflation. So maybe the split in money is not "fair", but in general all tournaments are better off.

by 3mlm

dmforever wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:52 am
JazzNU wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:06 am
dmforever wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:56 pm This is a propos of absolutely nothing, but...

Why is the 3-letter code for Spain after Rafa's name ESP? Obviously it's the first three letters in that country's name in its native language, but even if you just look at countries that use the Roman alphabet, Hungary isn't MAG , Sweden isn't SVE, and Germany isn't DEU. I can't think of another country that would use SPA. I'm just curious.

Kevin
Not about the native language. They are their IOC country codes. Traditionally, most IOC codes are based off the French spelling of the country name, but not all go by that. Not sure how long it lasted, but at one point IOC country codes altered based on the host country's language.

I've watched a few too many Olympics Opening Ceremonies.
Hmm, at first glance they don't appear to be widely based on French. The US certainly isn't. Nor are any of the others I mentioned. They all seem to be based on the English spelling except for Spain, hence my question. I'm in my 50's, and I don't think I've ever seen Hungary as MAG or Germany as DEU. It's weird how Spain is the outlier.

Kevin

A few other countries have IOC, ATP and WTA codes that, like ESP for Spain (based on French and/or Spanish name). are not based on the English spelling: NED for Netherlands, SUI for Switzerland, and ROU for Romania (based on French names); and MKD for North Macedonia (based on Macedonian Македонија/Makedonija), for example.

by dmforever

3mlm wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:49 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:52 am
JazzNU wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:06 am

Not about the native language. They are their IOC country codes. Traditionally, most IOC codes are based off the French spelling of the country name, but not all go by that. Not sure how long it lasted, but at one point IOC country codes altered based on the host country's language.

I've watched a few too many Olympics Opening Ceremonies.
Hmm, at first glance they don't appear to be widely based on French. The US certainly isn't. Nor are any of the others I mentioned. They all seem to be based on the English spelling except for Spain, hence my question. I'm in my 50's, and I don't think I've ever seen Hungary as MAG or Germany as DEU. It's weird how Spain is the outlier.

Kevin
A few other countries have IOC, ATP and WTA codes that, like ESP for Spain (based on French and/or Spanish name). are not based on the English spelling: NED for Netherlands, SUI for Switzerland, and ROU for Romania (based on French names); and MKD for North Macedonia (based on Macedonian Македонија/Makedonija), for example.

Great examples. Thanks. But again, why some and not others? It seems random.

Kevin

by JazzNU

dmforever wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:52 am
Hmm, at first glance they don't appear to be widely based on French. The US certainly isn't. Nor are any of the others I mentioned. They all seem to be based on the English spelling except for Spain, hence my question. I'm in my 50's, and I don't think I've ever seen Hungary as MAG or Germany as DEU. It's weird how Spain is the outlier.

Kevin

You can look it up, it's definitely based on French language names. Which isn't surprising, French is the primary official language for the Olympics. I think you're possibly too focused on tennis countries as well as exceptions. Spain is not an outlier. If you look at a more complete list, you'll more codes based on French spelling. There being exceptions doesn't change that that is the main origin of the many of the country codes. You'd have to ask the IOC why some follow it and others do not.

by dmforever

JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:33 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:52 am
Hmm, at first glance they don't appear to be widely based on French. The US certainly isn't. Nor are any of the others I mentioned. They all seem to be based on the English spelling except for Spain, hence my question. I'm in my 50's, and I don't think I've ever seen Hungary as MAG or Germany as DEU. It's weird how Spain is the outlier.

Kevin

You can look it up, it's definitely based on French language names. Which isn't surprising, French is the primary official language for the Olympics. I think you're possibly too focused on tennis countries as well as exceptions. Spain is not an outlier. If you look at a more complete list, you'll more codes based on French spelling. There being exceptions doesn't change that that is the main origin of the many of the country codes. You'd have to ask the IOC why some follow it and others do not.

Someone else posted a list which compared the two languages and names. I'll repost it here and let you draw your own conclusions.

I still think it's weird though that there is not one standard.
Country codes for the Olympics

Kevin

by ti-amie

by Liamvalid Wimbledon has announced they are scrapping the rest day on the middle Sunday from next year. One the hand- yey I hate no tennis day in the middle of a slam! On the other-noooo I love manic Monday in the second week

by the Moz

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:32 am Wimbledon has announced they are scrapping the rest day on the middle Sunday from next year. One the hand- yey I hate no tennis day in the middle of a slam! On the other-noooo I love manic Monday in the second week

Round of 16 will now be played over middle Sunday & Monday. Players will not be allowed to rent private housing and instead have to stay in hotels. They will be allowed an entourage of three. Regular lines judges will be used while the shot clock will be used for the first time here. And all events will go ahead as usual except Invitational Doubles.

by meganfernandez

the Moz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:57 am
Liamvalid wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:32 am Wimbledon has announced they are scrapping the rest day on the middle Sunday from next year. One the hand- yey I hate no tennis day in the middle of a slam! On the other-noooo I love manic Monday in the second week
Round of 16 will now be played over middle Sunday & Monday. Players will not be allowed to rent private housing and instead have to stay in hotels. They will be allowed an entourage of three. Regular lines judges will be used while the shot clock will be used for the first time here. And all events will go ahead as usual except Invitational Doubles.

Chances that Federer stays in a hotel and doesn't bring the whole fam for likely 3 weeks? If it wasn't Wimbledon, I'd say 50/50 at best. But I think he'll do it if he's healthy and thinks he has a good chance to win. Maybe he'll find another player to take his kids as their guests and no one else.

"Look, Sascha, do you want back with Team 8 or not?"

One thing I liked about Manic Monday was that it put both halves of the draw on the same schedule (I'd have to look, but guessing they stayed on the same schedule the rest of the tournament). Bugs me when one player has an extra day off between matches late in the tournament. REALLY bugs me when one player has no day off and the opponent does (tends to be women, playing quarters on Wed and semi on Thursday at one of the Slams). If happens due to weather, okay. But it seems crazy to schedule it that way. If you go back and look at results, it might not actually matter. But seems like it could.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 It has indeed gone too far.
And it is time that social media do something about it.
If I were in any way famous I would simply not have an account. No need to put up with the aggravation.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Suspension. This is slowly crawling into a dangerous place. If the players get away with talking this way to the umps, it will not end well.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 12:02 am

It looks like the umpire may have misunderstood, as, after he climbed down from the chair, it seems that he reached up from the back of the chair to get the balls that Zeppieri asked him if he had...

But seriously... in a 6-0, 6-3 match, I think it's safe to say that the umpire did not make a significant difference in the outcome.

by the Moz "I will kill you". End of.

by ponchi101

the Moz wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 10:06 am "I will kill you". End of.

Indeed.
This could tie to the weekend boycott of social media, which is being done because people online are being extremely aggressive to players. This is an in-person argument and therefore the verbal threat is more direct.

by meganfernandez Shot of the Year, Martin Fucsovics

by ponchi101 It takes you several looks to understand with which face he hit it. Incredible.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 2:48 pm It takes you several looks to understand with which face he hit it. Incredible.

I didn't even try to figure it out.

by ponchi101 He hit it with the forehand face, using an eastern backhand grip.

by ti-amie

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 4:43 am Shot of the Year, Martin Fucsovics

That's a much, much more difficult shot than the between the legs shot when chasing down a lob. The between the legs shot is actually not as difficult as it looks. But this one is extremely difficult to hit.
It's a Pablo Cuevas Special.

by ti-amie Alex Gruskin
@GreatShotPod
·
9h
Dating back to August, I’ve repeatedly stated my belief that the Sakkari/Kontaveit/Mertens generation continues to be overlooked

Can essentially pen one of them into any tournaments SF spot. If recent results are any indication, they’re all clearly entering their primes

What do we think about this theory?

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I... am at a loss. There are too many languages in the tour. The umps need some help if this rule is to be consistently enforced.

by Deuce Fergus Murphy is too often too authoritarian. It seems that he sees himself as kind of a school principal.
He's a decent umpire, but he needs to loosen up, learn to relax, and not take his job too seriously.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 12:21 am Alex Gruskin
@GreatShotPod
·
9h
Dating back to August, I’ve repeatedly stated my belief that the Sakkari/Kontaveit/Mertens generation continues to be overlooked

Can essentially pen one of them into any tournaments SF spot. If recent results are any indication, they’re all clearly entering their primes

What do we think about this theory?

^ None of the above.
Muchova is the best of this group, in my opinion... followed by a tie between Mertens and Jabeur.

How can Muchova and Jabeur not be included in his list?

by ponchi101 I can see Mertens winning a Slam, if she gets a few breaks. It is not as if she has not been a regular of the top 20. Kontaveit is the weak player in that group. She has no weapons to talk about. Vekic gets injured too much.
This group is not like Dimitrov, Raonic and Kei, sandwiched between the three greatest of all time and a generation that is better than theirs. In the Democratic Republic of the WTA, any of this players could win a big tournament. Or they can spend an entire career getting to an occasional QF, winning 4-5 250's and earning $10MM after a decade in the top 30 of the tour.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 1:14 pm I can see Mertens winning a Slam, if she gets a few breaks. It is not as if she has not been a regular of the top 20. Kontaveit is the weak player in that group. She has no weapons to talk about. Vekic gets injured too much.
This group is not like Dimitrov, Raonic and Kei, sandwiched between the three greatest of all time and a generation that is better than theirs. In the Democratic Republic of the WTA, any of this players could win a big tournament. Or they can spend an entire career getting to an occasional QF, winning 4-5 250's and earning $10MM after a decade in the top 30 of the tour.

I don't see any of them winning a Slam. Mertens is getting beat up by her doubles partner Sabalenka as I type this. Ons has a tendency to wilt under pressure. Kontaveit has a nice game but winning a Slam? As for Vekic it's beginning to show that away from the ATP coaching she used to get she can get a bit lost out there.

The young ones coming up behind them are, as Ponchi said about Kei, Raonic and Dimitrov, better than they are.

And Ostapenko is a Slam winner.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 5:46 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 1:14 pm I can see Mertens winning a Slam, if she gets a few breaks. It is not as if she has not been a regular of the top 20. Kontaveit is the weak player in that group. She has no weapons to talk about. Vekic gets injured too much.
This group is not like Dimitrov, Raonic and Kei, sandwiched between the three greatest of all time and a generation that is better than theirs. In the Democratic Republic of the WTA, any of this players could win a big tournament. Or they can spend an entire career getting to an occasional QF, winning 4-5 250's and earning $10MM after a decade in the top 30 of the tour.
I don't see any of them winning a Slam. Mertens is getting beat up by her doubles partner Sabalenka as I type this. Ons has a tendency to wilt under pressure. Kontaveit has a nice game but winning a Slam? As for Vekic it's beginning to show that away from the ATP coaching she used to get she can get a bit lost out there.

The young ones coming up behind them are, as Ponchi said about Kei, Raonic and Dimitrov, better than they are.

And Ostapenko is a Slam winner.

I agree with all that. I think Mertens could if she gets a lot of help from the draw, but she would have to get really lucky and then play her absolute best in the latter rounds. Commentator said she had the most match wins in 2020 but didn't win a title. Because she doesn't beat players ranked higher than her. That could always change, and she could catch a better player on an off day, so you never know. But I'd never put her as a top 5 contender in any given Slam without improvements to her game.

I could be wrong, but what Ti described is the case for about every top 100 player. They're all good but missing a couple things that make them champions. The potential is always there to add/fix those things, and you never know when they will catch lightening in a bottle, like Ostapenko, but it usually doesn't happen.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 3:59 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 12:21 am Alex Gruskin
@GreatShotPod
·
9h
Dating back to August, I’ve repeatedly stated my belief that the Sakkari/Kontaveit/Mertens generation continues to be overlooked

Can essentially pen one of them into any tournaments SF spot. If recent results are any indication, they’re all clearly entering their primes

What do we think about this theory?
^ None of the above.
Muchova is the best of this group, in my opinion... followed by a tie between Mertens and Jabeur.

How can Muchova and Jabeur not be included in his list?

So weird, I would never have associated Muchova, Mertens, Kontveit, Sakkari, and Jabeur as the same generation. I would have put Kontaveit and Mertens together, then Sakkari and Jabeur have emerged at about the same time, and then Muchova has only been coming on in the last year or so. But they're all about the same age, 24-26. I didn't know. I would have guessed Muchova was more like 21 or 22 and Mertens and Kontaveit like 26 or 27, more of the Muguruza generation. (Generation in tennis seems to be like 3-4 years, doesn't it?) Just because they have had higher rankings for a while I guess. And what about Garcia? She's 27.

I disagree with Alex (who lives in Indy, by the way, same as me!) that they are overlooked. When they dod something that makes us look, we will.

They have just the right amount of attention IMO. Between them, they have 1 Slam semi (Mertens).

by ti-amie I think Pavs has decided if not now, when?

by meganfernandez Love all this. Veteran players can be so introspective. I must admit I haven't paid much attention to Pavs in many years. Love that she's found this level again, and it will be interested to watch her over the next few months now.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 6:17 pm I think Pavs has decided if not now, when?

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 2:55 pm

Novak grew up playing on hard courts. The famous/tedious story of him playing in an empty pool is still fresh in my mind.
Osaka is not very good on clay because she rarely played on it. That has not stopped her from tremendous success.
Argentina basically has nothing but clay courts. Four grand slam champions in all of its history, three of them with just one.
Sampras, Agassi, Courier, Chang, Connors and McEnroe grew up on hard courts. Do not believe Connors did not know how to construct a point, and three of those won RG. The other three made a final and semis.

The narrative that the moment America lays down more clay courts it will become dominant again is faulty at best, and overly simplistic. The USA no longer dominates in tennis simply because tennis has go to be the most successful sport at modern globalization, or share that distinction with basketball (soccer always was global). If 30 years ago anybody would have said that the three most successful players in history would come from Switzerland, Spain and Serbia, you would have been laughed at.
Another great American champion will come, out of nowhere. It is the cycle of the sport.
(Sweden and Germany produced great champions in the 70's and 80's. Since then, nothing. And they did not cover their clay courts with plexi-pave).

by ti-amie Matt Zemek @mzemek

Another big story from the WTA Madrid final:

FoxTenn doesn't work well enough on clay.

Sorry, folks: We need umpires to check the marks on clay. It's not the verdict we want, but it's the responsible thing to do after that blown call early in the match.

There is one other big story to emerge from this Madrid final: FoxTenn got exposed.

I had not previously seen FoxTenn get a call so egregiously wrong on clay, but I and the rest of the world witnessed a clear error on Saturday. It came on break point for Sabalenka in the second game of the match.

I rewound the FoxTenn replay around 10-12 times to make sure I wasn’t hallucinating. You can see the ball float just above the painted white line, suggesting — as FoxTenn ruled — that the ball brushed the back of the baseline. However, was the ball actually touching the white, or was the ball still above the ground, continuing its downward trajectory before actually hitting the ground?

That was and is the essential question. I rewound my TV at least 10 times to be absolutely sure the ball wasn’t touching the ground when it was hovering just above the back of the baseline.

Yes. The ball was above the ground when it was above the back of the baseline. That was a CLEAR missed call, and — at least in my mind — a huge blow to the idea that FoxTenn is a regularly reliable clay lines-calling solution.

https://tennisaccent.com/wta/sabalenka- ... wta-final/

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez My friend Dave Seminara, who recently released a tennis travelogue book called Footsteps of Federer, got to interview Roger last week and wrote a piece for the NY Times and a blog post with stuff that didn't make the article:

NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/08/trav ... urism.html
Blog: https://daveseminara.com/roger-federers ... ork-times/

Dave got a phone call last week from his contact at the Swiss Tourism board, and the woman said, "Roger can talk to you now." Total surprise. Dave dropped what he was doing and jumped on a Zoom with Roger, who was 100% engaged and relaxed (shocker) for 30 minutes. Roger just began serving as an official spokesperson for Swiss Tourism, and he's doing it for free. That's why he did the interview. More prominently, this commercial with Robert Deniro. (Not Roger's house)

by ponchi101 I had seen the commercial. It is fun.
My sole issue is: how many people can afford a vacation in Switzerland? I would love to go there and ski some of their trails, but there is no way I could afford it. On the other hand, maybe it is not more expensive than France.
Goes in the Bucket List.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 2:50 pm I had seen the commercial. It is fun.
My sole issue is: how many people can afford a vacation in Switzerland? I would love to go there and ski some of their trails, but there is no way I could afford it. On the other hand, maybe it is not more expensive than France.
Goes in the Bucket List.

Can you stay with Suliso?

by ponchi101 Maybe he will let me use the stable...

by Suliso Switzerland is expensive, but not really more so than Scandinavia or California Bay area. Even better if you plan ahead and look for some deals.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 4:17 pm Switzerland is expensive, but not really more so than Scandinavia or California Bay area. Even better if you plan ahead and look for some deals.

Dave and Roger both said that the restaurants are tennis clubs tend to be really good and among the more affordable options in Switzerland. And they're public.

by ti-amie We were talking about playing on clay vs hard courts the other day. Here's a great player still working on her skills on the surface. With a guest appearance by Chip.

by ti-amie

by dmforever I guess Tiriac has been taking misogny lessons from Nastase. I guess when you are rich enough, you get away with a lot. What a nickname for Richard.

And props to Serena for not taking the bait.

Kevin

by Deuce Tiriac and Nastase go way back as friends, of course...
Connors was part of their little gang, as well.

by ponchi101

dmforever wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 2:45 am I guess Tiriac has been taking misogny lessons from Nastase. I guess when you are rich enough, you get away with a lot. What a nickname for Richard.

And props to Serena for not taking the bait.

Kevin

The lessons for misogyny were perhaps taken together. Those two go back a very long way.
I don't think Tiriac is misogynist. He is simply a person on the border line of moral. His stories from way back were always questionable and his sole purpose in life is to make money, and money only for himself. I don't think he hates women, he simply hates all people that are of no use to him.
I would never put him in the "good people" category.

by ti-amie

He mentions the tortellini but not Pamela.

by ti-amie "Masha is Back" posted this on the WTA fan site we all know.

In an Instagram Story published in late February, an ex-boyfriend alleged that Yastremska’s father had asked him to “take the blame” by testifying that he had transferred the banned substance into her body through sexual intercourse.

Responding to an Instagram follower who asked why he and Yastresmka had split, the ex-boyfriend replied “I will only answer this question once. And for the last time.”

He then went on to allege that when she tested positive for a banned steroid, her father “asked me to take the blame and [say] the doping was transmitted through sex. I did it. I did blood tests, wrote a statement, all for free, even though he offered me money. But then he told me that I have to have my hair tested.”

It seems that the alleged request for a hair test was the point at which the ex-boyfriend declined to co-operate further. The post continued as follows. “Then I got my car from her, which was broken on the inside … All I want to say on the subject: you don't have to pass your doping on to me.”

As usual in an Instagram Story, the ex-boyfriend’s post was only visible for 24 hours and did not cause much of a stir among his followers. But his claims are explosive.

Apparently the man involved is a boxer named Danya Galitskiy.

by ti-amie There is also this previous case:

https://inshorts.com/en/news/canadian-a ... 0261441564

by ti-amie

by ti-amie And here we are.

by Liamvalid Quick question. Venus has entered Nottingham, which isn’t far from me at all, and I thought my dream of seeing her play live was never going to come true so I’m gonna book a ticket. Only problem is I’m snowed under that week at work and can only have one day off, which I pretty much need to book off in the coming days. So any tips on which day to book? Should I book the Friday and hope she makes the quarters? I think it’s be a safer bet to book a first round match, but then it’s pot luck if I book a Monday ticket she will be scheduled to play on the Tuesday. Is there any logic to working out when they will play her first round?

by Deuce I would think that, no longer being a top player - but still considered to be a top draw (for ticket sales), she'd play on the first day. Of course, that's just a guess.
Call the tournament and ask to speak with someone in the director's office, and ask them - nothing to lose by trying.

Of course, the other possibility is that Venus pulls out before her first match. She and her sister have been known to do that.

Are there any special criteria for letting fans in - like that they must show proof of vaccination, for example?

by Liamvalid

Deuce wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 8:20 pm I would think that, no longer being a top player - but still considered to be a top draw (for ticket sales), she'd play on the first day. Of course, that's just a guess.
Call the tournament and ask to speak with someone in the director's office, and ask them - nothing to lose by trying.

Of course, the other possibility is that Venus pulls out before her first match. She and her sister have been known to do that.

Are there any special criteria for letting fans in - like that they must show proof of vaccination, for example?

Thanks for the reply. All I can find so far is that they will be using a 48 player draw format this year, and that you have to register an account with them before you can apply for a ticket (which I have just done). I agree it’s possible she won’t turn up at all, but it’s always been top of my tennis bucket list to watch Venus on grass so I’m going to try and hope for the best as anytime I’ve managed to get Wimbledon tickets I have never been on the same court that she been playing on

by meganfernandez

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 7:03 pm Quick question. Venus has entered Nottingham, which isn’t far from me at all, and I thought my dream of seeing her play live was never going to come true so I’m gonna book a ticket. Only problem is I’m snowed under that week at work and can only have one day off, which I pretty much need to book off in the coming days. So any tips on which day to book? Should I book the Friday and hope she makes the quarters? I think it’s be a safer bet to book a first round match, but then it’s pot luck if I book a Monday ticket she will be scheduled to play on the Tuesday. Is there any logic to working out when they will play her first round?

Agree about calling the office and asking - can't hurt. But they probably won't know anything until the draw is made. Can you call in sick instead of taking a vacation day? Normally I wouldn't suggest lying, but in this-- oh, who am I kidding, I'd do it without a second thought. That way you can wait for the order of play. If tickets won't be available the day before, you could buy tickets for each R1 day and sell the ones you don't use.

by Liamvalid

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 9:24 pm
Liamvalid wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 7:03 pm Quick question. Venus has entered Nottingham, which isn’t far from me at all, and I thought my dream of seeing her play live was never going to come true so I’m gonna book a ticket. Only problem is I’m snowed under that week at work and can only have one day off, which I pretty much need to book off in the coming days. So any tips on which day to book? Should I book the Friday and hope she makes the quarters? I think it’s be a safer bet to book a first round match, but then it’s pot luck if I book a Monday ticket she will be scheduled to play on the Tuesday. Is there any logic to working out when they will play her first round?
Agree about calling the office and asking - can't hurt. But they probably won't know anything until the draw is made. Can you call in sick instead of taking a vacation day? Normally I wouldn't suggest lying, but in this-- oh, who am I kidding, I'd do it without a second thought. That way you can wait for the order of play. If tickets won't be available the day before, you could buy tickets for each R1 day and sell the ones you don't use.

Haha maybe in previous jobs I’d have considered that, but I work for the NHS now and pulling a sickie isn’t really an option. I might just go on the Friday and hope she draws Giorgi in the first round!

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 9:24 pm ...
Agree about calling the office and asking - can't hurt. But they probably won't know anything until the draw is made. Can you call in sick instead of taking a vacation day? Normally I wouldn't suggest lying, but in this-- oh, who am I kidding, I'd do it without a second thought. That way you can wait for the order of play. If tickets won't be available the day before, you could buy tickets for each R1 day and sell the ones you don't use.

Which usually ends up in a Ferris Bueller situation, as a ball will land next to you and as you pick it up the camera catches you, with a silly grin on your face, as you reach over and hand it over to Venus herself.

Plan.
Go to a hardware store. Buy a chainsaw, in a clearly marked box.
Go to your boss' office, with the chainsaw in the box. Explain the situation. Casually say: "I would be really upset if I can't fulfill this dream. It would drive me insane..."
Tell us how it goes. You will have plenty of time for that (following my professional advice usually leads to less than desirable outcomes).

by mmmm8 I mean if you are able to, would you be able to take two days off. That way you can see Venus and some other good tennis or just plan something else for the other day. Besides the order of play, weather may also have an effect, so if it rains on Day 1 and she's scheduled, you'd still be able to see her (unless she's scheduled on day 2 and it rains... then you can hope she makes the weekend)

by ti-amie Isn't this called strategy?

by ponchi101 In the 1990 RG final, Andres Gomez broke first in the last set. He no longer bothered to even try on Agassi's services games, and saved his energy for HIS services games.
He lifted the trophy.
Not everybody is David Ferrer.

by Liamvalid

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:27 pm I mean if you are able to, would you be able to take two days off. That way you can see Venus and some other good tennis or just plan something else for the other day. Besides the order of play, weather may also have an effect, so if it rains on Day 1 and she's scheduled, you'd still be able to see her (unless she's scheduled on day 2 and it rains... then you can hope she makes the weekend)

I work for the wheelchair service branch of the NHS. Our clinics don’t operate on weekends so I work a mon-fri week, but we have a massive waiting list at the moment due to closing during part of the pandemic and have told we can’t book more than one weekday off as leave for the time being until we get the waiting list down, hence I can only have one day to go to the tennis, and I need to book it now so the admin can ensure I don’t have any patients in on that day. I have decided to book the Monday off and go on the Monday and hope for the best! If I don’t see her, my other hope is that she makes the semis and I can go on the Saturday

by ponchi101 I would say Monday would be a good bet. The organizers "know" she doesn't have the best chance to reach the weekend, but she is still a huge draw. As she will not be seeded, putting her on the first day is a good way to start the tournament.
Best of luck.

by ptmcmahon And not to be a pessimissist, but remember she may still wind up not playing... make sure if you are taking time off that you're ok with it if she doesn't wind up playing.

by Liamvalid

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 2:27 pm And not to be a pessimissist, but remember she may still wind up not playing... make sure if you are taking time off that you're ok with it if she doesn't wind up playing.

Yeah the line up is pretty good this year so I’ll be happy enough if that happens. Only way I won’t be happy is if I book the Monday and she plays on Tuesday! But I’m a gambling man so I’ll take the 50/50 chance haha

by ti-amie

Click to see full image.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Sound advice. As opposed to my "15-40. Serve to 15-40 the forehand, come in 15-40 and knock 15-40 the volley into 15-40!! the open court 15-40!!!!. And DON'T THINK ABOUT THE SCORE!!!! 15-40!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Deuce .
Bravo.
Canada's Leylah Fernandez wins 2021 Billie Jean King Cup Play-Offs Heart Award

.

by ti-amie What's next for Iga? Her version of the All Black's haka?

by ponchi101 WTF was that? "This is an interpretive dance of what I am going to do to you. You are the line...."
I like her very much.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 9:55 pm WTF was that? "This is an interpretive dance of what I am going to do to you. You are the line...."
I like her very much.

Did you see Pliskova's face?!

by Deuce Given the result of the match, that was quite funny

.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Dennis thinks he can sing?

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 2:02 pm Dennis thinks he can sing?

Worse, he thinks he can rap

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 What a lovely court, but any of the new top guys would crash through that window. Looks kind of narrow.

by mmmm8 It's not a mystery or a secret. The court is publicly available and can be booked - it's ~$40-60 per 1/2 hour (not much off the average for NYC), with prices varying by time of day

https://vanderbilttennisclub.com/promos/

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:21 pm It's not a mystery or a secret. The court is publicly available and can be booked - it's ~$40-60 per 1/2 hour (not much off the average for NYC), with prices varying by time of day

https://vanderbilttennisclub.com/promos/

So not members only?

by mmmm8

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:32 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:21 pm It's not a mystery or a secret. The court is publicly available and can be booked - it's ~$40-60 per 1/2 hour (not much off the average for NYC), with prices varying by time of day

https://vanderbilttennisclub.com/promos/
So not members only?

Nope, and they have two "sister" clubs that I've taken lessons at, all very democratic.

https://vanderbilttennisclub.com/about/

by ti-amie

by ti-amie I don't believe in comparing era's of tennis. Now if you assume that Borg would play modern day clay tennis...I'll go with Rafa.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 12:41 am

Borg WAS using a modern racquet - for the time...

His Donnay Borg Pro was known to be stiffer than most wood racquets at the time - it was reinforced with graphite. It had a long grip to accommodate the 2 handed backhand... Even the cosmetics were more modern than any other wood frame of the time (with the possible exception of the overwhelmingly ugly Snauwaert Gerulaitis).
(It looks like he's using the Donnay Allwood in the photo, though - the predecessor to the Borg Pro.)

I, too, see absolutely no point in the 'who would win' nonsense between players of different eras. These are the kind of questions that are absolutely impossible for anyone to answer, or to even have an educated opinion on.

by ponchi101 But they are fun questions

. No harm in talking about it.
Rafa would not be able to hit his forehand with Borg's racquet. That racquet's weight was 16 ounces, because, as Deuce says, it was specially made for him. Because Borg strung his racquet at 80Lbs, he needed three extra laminations on each side or the racquet's head would crack under the pressure. So, try to imagine Rafa hitting that forehand with that much weight. I say his elbow would break soon after the first set.
Borg and all those greats were also smaller than the current crop. They were around the 5'10" mark. Lendl immediately made the push to larger champions as he was about 6'2". But what Borg had that separated him was his speed and stamina. Remember, Borg resting heartbeat was 36; basically half of a normal human being (Miguel Indurrain, the spanish cyclist, was 30).
And, apart than motor sports, no sport has changed equipment as much as tennis. I believe I have played with all kinds of racquets, and the technology today is insane. I played with the Dunlop Maxply, hit with the Jack Kramer, played with the T-2000 (actually, the T'3000), the Yonex R-22, the Maxply 200G and the family of Wilson's Pro Staff and the racquets make a lot of difference.
So, I say: wood racquets: Borg beats Rafa at RG. Modern racquets? Rafa, 8-6 in the fifth.
Borg was special too.
(Slick, 1985 grass? McEnroe beats Roger at Wimby. 2005 grass? Roger turns it around).

by ti-amie Remember our discussion about Shapo and his need to change his game? Here's an interesting discussion about it.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Good for him and his team. Went down to a challenger, won it, got more practice. Kind of shows they know there is still a lot to work on.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 5:16 pm Remember our discussion about Shapo and his need to change his game? Here's an interesting discussion about it.

I don't find him anywhere near as entertaining or dynamic as Gael.

by meganfernandez Name to remember, possibly - Peyton Stearns, a freshman player at Texas. She played #1 this season. and just made an incredible comeback in the National team championship match for a W they had to have, against a senior. (It’s still not over - coming down to the deciding 7th court on ESPN something or Tennis Channel right now, 8:45 pm Eastern on Sat).

Stearns is from Mason, Ohio, where the Cincinnati Masters is held.

The men’s and women’s NCAA individual championships starts tomorrow, I think. Encourage you to check it out. Emma Navarro is playing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez NCAA individual championships are on Tennis One right now, and through the week. Right now (Tuesday, 2 pm ET), Estela Perez-Somarriba from U of Miami/Spain is playing. Defending national champion.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez Tennis.com launched a redesign, and maybe I never noticed it before, but there's a prominent section called Betting Central, with articles such as tips and a glossary for new gamblers and also analyzing a match pick of the day. It's sponsored by Fan Duel but presented as editorial, not advertorial. I was stunned. If tennis is going to continue embracing betting, they have to let players be sponsored by betting companies, in my opinion. They can't keep letting everyone else (particularly tournaments) cash in and not players.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 6:17 pm Tennis.com launched a redesign, and maybe I never noticed it before, but there's a prominent section called Betting Central, with articles such as tips and a glossary for new gamblers and also analyzing a match pick of the day. It's sponsored by Fan Duel but presented as editorial, not advertorial. I was stunned. If tennis is going to continue embracing betting, they have to let players be sponsored by betting companies, in my opinion. They can't keep letting everyone else (particularly tournaments) cash in and not players.

I've said it before: Betting stands a good chance of ruining tennis - and perhaps other sports, as well.
If people think they can keep a control over betting, they're fooling themselves. As betting infiltrates more and more sports, and becomes a more pronounced presence, we will see an increasing number of Pete Rose situations, and even Black Sox scandals.
It's well known that the criminal element (aka organized crime) is very prevalent in the betting scene. Plus, there is the addictive nature of betting - which sports participants are not immune to... this often results in rather extreme negative and destructive behaviour.
As well, if the presence of betting continues, we will see more and more players being caught tanking games and matches...
Allowing betting companies to sponsor players is simply asking for even more trouble.

by ti-amie

by mmmm8 She's agreed to paying the fine, so it's her right to make that choice.

by ti-amie

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 9:59 pm She's agreed to paying the fine, so it's her right to make that choice.

Beyond that though doesn't this raise issues about tennis "journalism" and the fact that you can name professional reporters and may barely need ten fingers.

Venus, on Instagram, has already given her a shout out of support. It makes you wonder if she and her sister would've if they could've.

by mmmm8

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 10:08 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 9:59 pm She's agreed to paying the fine, so it's her right to make that choice.
Beyond that though doesn't this raise issues about tennis "journalism" and the fact that you can name professional reporters and may barely need ten fingers.

Venus, on Instagram, has already given her a shout out of support. It makes you wonder if she and her sister would've if they could've.

I'm sure it's not irrelevant, but I'm not sure that better tennis journalism (and especially more numerous tennis journalists) would've had a more positive effect on athlete mental health.

And they could've but didn't....

by ti-amie

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 10:29 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 10:08 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 9:59 pm She's agreed to paying the fine, so it's her right to make that choice.
Beyond that though doesn't this raise issues about tennis "journalism" and the fact that you can name professional reporters and may barely need ten fingers.

Venus, on Instagram, has already given her a shout out of support. It makes you wonder if she and her sister would've if they could've.
I'm sure it's not irrelevant, but I'm not sure that better tennis journalism (and especially more numerous tennis journalists) would've had a more positive effect on athlete mental health.

And they could've but didn't....

Actually no they couldn't have. They would've been attacked mercilessly by the media and their careers could've been affected. Today isn't then. I don't know if they'll ever detail all the crap they went through so that Naomi can do this and not suffer any consequences she's not prepared to accept.

by Suliso Not convinced, how about all the other professional athletes giving interviews after both wins and defeats? NBA for example. Male players don't seem to be complaining either. Doesn't make a good impression of WTA, does it?

by Suliso As for Naomi and RG in particular she's not taking this tournament seriously anyway. I'll be very surprised if she wins more than two matches.

by Deuce This is a tough one for me...
I've long said that no-one should be forced (as in with the threat of a fine or other consequences) to speak with the media. And I maintain that position - it should be entirely up to the athlete - whether in an individual sport or a team sport - to decide whether he/she gives interviews, does press conferences, etc. Their interaction - or lack thereof - with any media should be entirely their decision, and not the decision of any governing body, or the team they play for, etc. And the athlete should be able to decide this on a day-to-day basis.
The jobs of those in the media should never override the basic right of each individual to decide whether to speak with another individual or not - and perhaps especially when knowing that what is said will be transmitted to millions of people - and at times even inaccurately so.

But, while I applaud Naomi's initiative, I have a problem with her reason. As Suliso mentions, many athletes do media after losses - even after heartbreaking losses. And despite the terrible 'political correctness' movement insisting that everyone should be emotionally weak and overly sensitive to the point that they are hurt or offended by something/someone at least 3 times every day, I feel that the much healthier course is to work toward being emotionally strong enough to not be hurt or offended by what others say or do - especially people with whom you have no emotionally invested relationship (and the members of the media would fall into this category for most athletes). I can understand being hurt by criticism coming from someone you know well, care about, and trust - that's simply being human... but criticism from people you're not close with should be able to bounce right off of you with little to no effect.

Of course, the 'x factor' is that when the media criticize, it goes out to millions of people, and is bound to influence more than a few. I've never been in the position of my performance being criticized by a multitude of people in a public manner, and so I can't really speak on that element. I'd like to think that it would all just bounce off of me, but until I'm in that situation, I can't say for sure.

by ti-amie Isn't RG the Slam where only certain people are allowed to interview players? I know they don't post the post match interviews on their site. Maybe she's not there for having her comments taken out of context in a Tweet? I think there might be more to this.

by ti-amie Pierre Hugues-Herbert is part of a group that owns the WTA Strasbourg tournament.

https://www.20minutes.fr/strasbourg/264 ... is-feminin

by dmforever Interesting.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/26/spor ... views.html

In case you hit a paywall, Osaka is saying she won't go any press at the French Open and will pay all fines. She cites mental health as the reason why and has said that it would be great if the fines she will have to pay can go towards groups that help tennis players / athletes with mental health issues. I appreciate her voicing this issue. Obviously she can afford the fines and maybe it will bring the issue of mental health in tennis and sports in general to the forefront. The ironic thing is that she is the only tennis player I have ever heard who directly answers what she is asked. Maybe that's part of why this has caused her to do this.

Kevin

by meganfernandez Funny, because there’s hardly anyone the press loves more than Naomi. But I won’t miss her press conferences. God’s speed.

by mmmm8

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 10:41 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 10:29 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 10:08 pm

Beyond that though doesn't this raise issues about tennis "journalism" and the fact that you can name professional reporters and may barely need ten fingers.

Venus, on Instagram, has already given her a shout out of support. It makes you wonder if she and her sister would've if they could've.
I'm sure it's not irrelevant, but I'm not sure that better tennis journalism (and especially more numerous tennis journalists) would've had a more positive effect on athlete mental health.

And they could've but didn't....
Actually no they couldn't have. They would've been attacked mercilessly by the media and their careers could've been affected. Today isn't then. I don't know if they'll ever detail all the crap they went through so that Naomi can do this and not suffer any consequences she's not prepared to accept.

I agree in that respect. But Serena and Venus took other stands (like not playing IW) that unfairly gave bad publicity. I was just saying the rules would have been the same for Serena and Venus (or anyone else). Agree that a number of circumstances have changed to make this easier for Osaka.

by Liamvalid

dmforever wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 1:44 am Interesting.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/26/spor ... views.html

In case you hit a paywall, Osaka is saying she won't go any press at the French Open and will pay all fines. She cites mental health as the reason why and has said that it would be great if the fines she will have to pay can go towards groups that help tennis players / athletes with mental health issues. I appreciate her voicing this issue. Obviously she can afford the fines and maybe it will bring the issue of mental health in tennis and sports in general to the forefront. The ironic thing is that she is the only tennis player I have ever heard who directly answers what she is asked. Maybe that's part of why this has caused her to do this.

Kevin

I always say they should scrap the post match pressers that the losers have to go through anyway. Nothing worse than watching a player have to squirm through an interview when they would obviously rather be anywhere else but there-and that’s just the players who don’t suffer from mental health issues. Once again, good on Naomi

by ponchi101 I think it is a bit extreme. I would scrap the interviews because the truly insightful interview is a 1 in 1000 event; all others are pretty boring and inane. But to go to the extreme to claim that the affect your mental health? I find that too much. They are just asking you the same questions again and again, both when you lose or win.
About mental health? She could talk about it at the press conference and it would be more effective.
What I would scrap is the ON COURT interviews, specially prior to the match. Totally useless and that one is disruptive of the player:
"You are about to go on court against Rafael Nadal at Roland Garros. What are you thinking?"
(Inner voice: "I am getting creamed").
We can spare that one.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie I don't use IG except to look at cats but I heard Naomi cited a presser where a "journalist" was berating Venus about her health and fitness.

by JTContinental Get it, Naomi! I love that the top two comments on her IG post about this decision are from Venus and Nicki Minaj

by JTContinental Real talk though, that will only be like two matches worth of fines

by ponchi101 How are the journalists going to handle these interviews then? If you are interviewing the loser of the final, and there will always be one, what questions are Ok and which ones are not?
Do you only get to ask questions to the giggly victor?

by ti-amie

by jazzyg As a working member of the media, I find Osaka's attitude impossibly selfish.

She's the highest paid female athlete in history. To me it's pathetic that she can't handle tough and/or stupid questions after a loss. Pathetic. It's part of the job and doing media is her obligation to the sport.

I remember the heat some media members took here a couple years ago when Konta lost to Strycoca in the Wimbledon quarterfinals and was asked about choking. Some of you thought it was appalling and out of bounds. If I had been an editor and my reporter had been covering the match, the reporter would have been reprimanded for NOT ASKING that question because it was exactly what appeared to happen. Answering questions comes with the territory. and sports are not so bloody important that a player should be immune from answering tough questions about a match just to protect his or her feelings.

There is plenty about Osaka to like. I applaud her social justice work and her stand on not playing last summer, but she's always come across as a bit disingenuous to me, and I don't like the way she goes through extended funks in which does not even look like she cares whether she wins matches. She's too talented to do that. My take: she knows she stinks on clay, which is inexplicable, and she's too fragile to talk about it.

by Deuce

jazzyg wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 10:37 pm As a working member of the media, I find Osaka's attitude impossibly selfish.

She's the highest paid female athlete in history. To me it's pathetic that she can't handle tough and/or stupid questions after a loss. Pathetic. It's part of the job and doing media is her obligation to the sport.

I remember the heat some media members took here a couple years ago when Konta lost to Strycoca in the Wimbledon quarterfinals and was asked about choking. Some of you thought it was appalling and out of bounds. If I had been an editor and my reporter had been covering the match, the reporter would have been reprimanded for NOT ASKING that question because it was exactly what appeared to happen. Answering questions comes with the territory. and sports are not so bloody important that a player should be immune from answering tough questions about a match just to protect his or her feelings.

There is plenty about Osaka to like. I applaud her social justice work and her stand on not playing last summer, but she's always come across as a bit disingenuous to me, and I don't like the way she goes through extended funks in which does not even look like she cares whether she wins matches. She's too talented to do that. My take: she knows she stinks on clay, which is inexplicable, and she's too fragile to talk about it.

Interesting perspective.

First comment: No-one should be obligated to speak with any person they don't want to speak with. This is part of being a free human being. As I wrote yesterday in the 'Tennis Random, Random' thread about Osaka's decision: The jobs of those in the media should never override the basic right of each individual to decide whether to speak with another individual or not - and perhaps especially when knowing that what is said will be transmitted to millions of people - and at times even inaccurately so.
As tennis players, their only obligation is to play in the tournaments they enter, and to adhere to the schedule of matches and the rules of the game. Neither the ATP nor the WTA should be able to force them, under threat of fines, to talk with any individual, or any group of individuals, whom they do not wish to speak with.
I find it appallingly ridiculous that any entity can control an individual like that. They are tennis players - they are not media stars unless they choose to be - and that should be entirely the decision of the player. They do not owe the sport, the media, or the fans anything other than to try their best when they are on the court - period.

However...

jazzyg wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 10:37 pmI remember the heat some media members took here a couple years ago when Konta lost to Strycoca in the Wimbledon quarterfinals and was asked about choking. Some of you thought it was appalling and out of bounds. If I had been an editor and my reporter had been covering the match, the reporter would have been reprimanded for NOT ASKING that question because it was exactly what appeared to happen. Answering questions comes with the territory. and sports are not so bloody important that a player should be immune from answering tough questions about a match just to protect his or her feelings.

I mostly agree with you here ^. If a player presents him/herself to the media, the media should be free to ask them these types of 'difficult' questions. But I maintain that the player should have no obligation to speak with any member of the media. Their job is to play tennis - period. Anything else they do should be done entirely at their own discretion; as a free choice - whether it's talking with the media, doing sponsorship ads, promoting the game in some way, etc.

If ever a player agrees to talk with the media, and feels that a member of the media steps over the line of respect/decency, the player should simply refuse to answer the question - and if it's way over the line, to tell the member of the media to kiss their ass, etc. In short, they should be able to defend themselves - and should do so when the circumstance calls for it.

I also agree with you - and ponchi - that it's not an enviable trait to be 'too fragile' to be asked tough questions. As you said, this is sport - it's not life and death. In the grand scheme of things, it's not among the most important things on Earth (though the media often make it out to be).
Rather than running away from the issue - which I don't believe helps their 'mental health' at all, as avoiding perceived problems very rarely helps to remedy the problems - players should be encouraged to 'face the music' and to hit back when they feel they are wronged. That's the way to build one's self-esteem, not by running away.

by ti-amie By the same token the media has to rise above the level of "gotcha" journalism. It works both ways.

by ponchi101 Why is she assuming that players are having mental health issues?
Her point is that IF YOU HAVE mental health issues, you should not be required to answer such questions. But what percentage of the players' population has such issues?
Does she have any such problems, for example?

by Deuce I don't like how she says to direct further questions to Stuart.
If you're going to take a stand like this, you need to answer the questions yourself; you need to be prepared for the feedback, whether it's positive or negative.

I'm afraid that Naomi is becoming a little too much of a 'diva' now. With all the praise she's received - much of it deserved -, maybe it's gone to her head and she's beginning to think that she's bigger than the game.

by JazzNU In terms of Naomi skipping post-match press conferences at RG. From the responses I've been seeing from many members of media, I think they are helping to make Naomi's case much more than their own.

by the Moz Good on Naomi! Looking to change things up and progress a different way of thinking. She's a champ on court and a leader off

by JazzNU

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 10:42 pm Not convinced, how about all the other professional athletes giving interviews after both wins and defeats? NBA for example. Male players don't seem to be complaining either. Doesn't make a good impression of WTA, does it?

Well that's a bad example. The NBA is very likely where Naomi got the idea.

by patrick

Deuce wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 2:30 am I don't like how she says to direct further questions to Stuart.
If you're going to take a stand like this, you need to answer the questions yourself; you need to be prepared for the feedback, whether it's positive or negative.

I'm afraid that Naomi is becoming a little too much of a 'diva' now. With all the praise she's received - much of it deserved -, maybe it's gone to her head and she's beginning to think that she's bigger than the game.

Before her media announcement, I have seen her be the face of a lot of products consistently. Wonder what those sponsors are thinking after her media announcement?

by Suliso Not that much support from her peers.

Barty: In my opinion, press is kind of part of the job. We know what we sign up for as a professional tennis player

Nadal:

Swiatek:

Q; Do you find the press conference experience difficult and do you think at times it affects your mental health?

A: I don't. I personally feel that this is part of the job.

by MJ2004 No sympathy for Naomi here. Mental health is a serious issue. I feel she’s making light of it by drawing it into this conversation - sorry, needing to answer a few questions after a job-related event is not an attack on one’s mental health. She’s in danger of turning into the epitome of the Gen Z whining stereotype.

She hates doing press and can afford to skip it? Fine. But just be honest, say you hate it, and don’t needlessly draw mental health into the conversation.

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 2:24 am Why is she assuming that players are having mental health issues?
Her point is that IF YOU HAVE mental health issues, you should not be required to answer such questions. But what percentage of the players' population has such issues?
Does she have any such problems, for example?

I think she is saying (it's not well-phrased) that having to be in a press conference when you are in a vulnerable mental state is dangerous for one's mental health and could lead to mental illness, not that players are dealing with mental illnesses.

(I know mental "illness" is a heavy word, but that's what depression, anxiety, etc. are classified as)

by meganfernandez Navarro is in the final of the women's NCAA championship against the defending champ, a grad student from Miami. Good match so far, Navarro won the first set 6-3. It's free on Tennis.One

Edit - she won 3 and 1. Really dominant and wasn't even doing anything super special, just solid baselining. Guess it's no surprise but the opponent was made to look like the amateur she is. Abigail Forbes at UCLA was also in the tournament, losing to the defending champ after leading a set and a point for 5-0. I've seen her name in some tour draws. Probably wild cards or doubles.

Anyway, wonder if Navarro will stay at Virginia or go pro. Thinking pro. Not sure she's going to improve much playing NCAA for the next few years, but maybe she likes the lifestyle and wants a degree.

by ti-amie Interesting thread

P1

by ti-amie P2

by ti-amie P 3/L

by ponchi101 There were some posts regarding Players and press conferences that were in the Roland Garros topic; I have moved them here to have the entire conversation in one topic as opposed to spread on two.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 7:17 pm There were some posts regarding Players and press conferences that were in the Roland Garros topic; I have moved them here to have the entire conversation in one topic as opposed to spread on two.

Thanks.
You missed a few in the other thread, including one of yours - one Wednesday night by Kevin (the first one on the subject in that thread), and a few consecutive ones on Thursday morning (Eastern U.S. time), starting with Liam's.

by ti-amie This is the discussion that needs to be had.

P1

by ti-amie P2

Bennett Hipp @BennettHipp Replying to
@SorayaMcDonald
The question Coco got yesterday about Serena was a perfect example of this.
(I don't know what the question was)

Tom Jackman @TomJackmanWP
That was the next thing I was gonna say.

Sonia Jimenez
@Sonia6349 Replying to @SorayaMcDonald
Serena Williams and her hair, Simone Biles and her hair. Also, there must be something wrong with them. They are TOO good at what they do.

by Deuce Osaka didn't mention anything about race or gender in taking her position of not doing any media at Roland Garros. Her focus, made rather clear, is the mental health of seemingly all nationalities and genders. Whether one agrees with her or not, that is her purpose and position.

It was just a matter of time before someone appropriated Naomi's stance and used it to try to further their own agenda.

Tennis is one of the most diverse of all sports, with players and coaches coming from all corners of the planet.
I, personally, have seen an equal number of bad, disrespectful treatments of athletes of of all races, nationalities, and genders by some members of the media, and good, respectful treatment of athletes of all races, nationalities, and genders by some members of the media.

by dmforever I think it's an interesting topic and that maybe other players have similar issues but haven't spoken up about it. If nothing else, it might make reporters who are open to the idea that there might be some unwanted bias in their questions open to a little self reflection.

Kevin

by meganfernandez Haven't read everyone's posts on this, but Brad Gilbert made the point that the Japanese media is pretty aggressive. He learned this when he coached Nishikori. "The tennis media" is too big, diverse, and professional to indict as a whole. Need more specifics. Someone should ask her if she meant-- oh, wait, never mind. We'll have to wait until she gives us more info on social media if she feels like it. Sounds like a good system.

by ponchi101 Serious question.
Is Naomi clear about what "mental health issues" encompass? By that I mean that coming out of a press conference feeling not well, after you lost a match and were asked some questions, does not necessarily equal "mental health issues". We know that some players have addressed this aspect of health, most recently, Sinner starting his "What kept you going?" movement.
And I can't recall any player that has been outspoken about mental health bringing up the interviews as part or source of the problem. They do talk about burnout, the traveling, the separation for long periods of time from family and friends, but, and again, I am seriously asking, I can't recall anybody mentioning that the post match interviews are a burden that pushes them into an unhealthy state. In that aspect, and MJ talked about this, she seems to be trivializing mental health, as your feelings after losing a match are not the same as problems such as Clinical Depression, Anxiety or any other known maladies.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 12:56 am Someone should ask her if she meant-- oh, wait, never mind. We'll have to wait until she gives us more info on social media if she feels like it. Sounds like a good system.

^ This draws attention to an interesting element of this situation...
Now, it's rather well known that I am not a fan of 'social media' - because most people abuse it to desperately seek attention, which I don't believe is psychologically healthy... but could 'social media' effectively replace the press conference, etc?
We've already seen several examples of 'famous people' choosing to take control of what they share with the general public - and 'social media' allows for this. It seems that more and more 'famous people' are choosing this path, while shying away from the common media.

And so, given that tennis is an individual sport, could we see the ATP and WTA, for example, in the not too distant future, make players post something on 'social media' about their just completed match, rather than make them attend press conferences? It seems that this might be a win/win situation - the fans would get insight into the matches/players, and the players would maintain a control over what they share with the public, no longer having to take the risk of it going through the filter of the media, which have been known to misunderstand, misinterpret, and even outright lie about things in order to 'sell more newspapers'.
The members of the media would be the only ones who don't 'win' in this circumstance.

Of course, the players would be just as capable as the media of putting their own 'spin' on things, which doesn't necessarily reflect the truth. But overall, there would probably be more accuracy if information and insights are coming directly from the players than if they continue to be filtered through the media.

by nelslus I am just shaking my head with some of the Naomi posts in here. And why, seriously, for the sake of my own mental health issues, I pretty much only come in here with the Pools. (Clinical depression has not robbed me of my lust for imaginary little tennis trophies/past imaginary little gold medals.)

How does Naomi make the WTA look, when "male players don't seem to be complaining either"? WELL, then, we have had plenty of stories about male players from numerous sports who, especially after they retire, DO go through bouts of depression, anxiety, etc. Who batter their spouses. Who attempt or succeed with suicides/homicides. So, you know: men have mental health issues, too. I'd say that men, historically, have done a pretty (expletive) job when it comes to dealing with mental health issues.

So, how does this make Naomi and the WTA look? I think that, if this world can become more honest- that this makes her look like she's ahead of her time and a leader.

TRUST that I am not saying nor meaning to imply that press conferences are leading anyone to a lifetime of mental health woes. But- when did anyone in here suddenly become an expert at what Naomi is going through? Do any of you REALLY know what is going on in her head right now? What she has been through? I applaud Naomi, because SHE knows better about how to best deal with her own mental health issues than anyone else could. Dealing best with mental issues can be very different for any individual.

I also wish, seriously, that we men would just learn to shut the **** up more. We've done a pretty **** job.

Ultimately, no one's specific mental health issues are anyone's damned business. But, she has chosen to be upfront about this- and I feel it is, at least, inappropriate to question anyone when they say they have mental health issues. You know- maybe just consider going with, believing someone has mental health issues when they say that they do? In my view, that is brave and smart. Especially when you see how the world reacts when you admit you have mental health issues, AND especially if you are a woman who has mental health issues.

Like, in my much, MUCH-smaller-world way, I chose a LONG time ago to be out as a gay man including at my jobs (except working as a social worker with clients, because you aren't supposed to talk about your personal life with clients, period), and then also about my depression and mental health issues. Because, for sure, nothing is going to change unless some speak up. And I've paid the price for sure. I can only imagine how Naomi will get dragged. And, sure, it sucks for me that I can't toss out tens of thousand of dollars in two weeks time to make any kind of a point. But, I'm not going to hate on Naomi because I don't have that luxury. PROPS to Naomi, I say.

To make myself even more popular in here- I'll add that, in my view, sometimes doubters and questioners may very well have mental health issues that they are unaware of, or deny, or they have loved ones with issues and they are in denial. Or, they were raised in the 0.00005% of word-wide functional families and just don't know any better. (It could happen?) Or, they're just, at least on this subject, insensitive. And/or won't listen, won't learn.

BTW, I'll always feel some even justifiable shame that I was not capable of utilizing all of the talents that I have had in my life. (But, I've used some, so there.) And, one of the main reasons is, for all of my bark- I knew what any sizable group of people would say about me, most definitely from any group of gay men. (And now that I am 61, JUST imagine!!!!!

) I am stronger than many might think- but, I ain't that strong. With Naomi's level of world attention?!?!? NO!!!!! thank you.

I do know that I have to speak up, for my own well-being, especially as depression is one huge ****er. Hopefully, even such small gestures can ultimately help, at least in an accumulative way.

I also get that I can be viewed as a complete hypocrite here with my history of vile posts about some players. (And, I can apologize for many, but not concerning Lard-Ass. With his 275 Roland Garros titles, Lard-Ass can handle it.) But- maybe it wouldn't hurt if we managed to live in a world where we don't in the press have to rip Konta a new one during her next Strycova-Wimbledon moments? Maybe, like in so many ways, we can yet again learn that, just because "we've always done it this way" with sports, we can evolve and consider that maybe the "old way" was always wrong, so we can do better? Maybe we just let the player who can handle the stress that already takes place during any major tennis contest, and not have to deal with the rest of the world's crap, win?

by nelslus AND, yes, I know, too, TOO many words. (BTW, I also chose to censor myself. When I did censor myself. NO one here asked me to do so.)

by ponchi101 No such things as too many words.
We, or at least I, talked about this part recently: that we "do not know" what these players go through. But we do, at least a little bit. We know that Naomi leads a life that would be the envy of many, a life of riches and fame. She is famous, extremely successful, has a boyfriend that seems to be very supportive, we hear nothing about family problems in the same fashion that, from very early, we heard about Capriatti, Pierce, Dokic or Mirjana Lucic. Those seem not to be there.
So, although the default mode here is not to blame people, having an opinion is an intrinsic part of what the forum is about.
Plus nobody here has claimed expertise in the subject but, by that same token, Naomi is not an expert either. She is an expert at hitting a tennis ball, not at psychiatric issues. We can talk.
And maybe, just maybe, every once in a while one of the rich and famous is the one that does not know what s/he is talking about. Maybe, just maybe, it is they that don't have a clue of what the rest of the world goes through.
And great that you are not going to hate on Naomi because I have read all the posts and nobody else is doing it either. Not immediately agreeing with somebody does not mean "hate". It simply means disagreement, just like Nadal and Barty, who maybe do know more about that world than we do, did.

by JazzNU Naomi absolutely made it clear that race and gender were a factor in this. If you missed that, you're missing the obvious.

Behind the Racquet exists and way too many are acting like the mere idea of mental health struggles on the tour are almost an impossibility.

Real interesting to see y'all pretend like tennis media don't ask ignorant questions of players, especially black players. The tennis media perceiving their questions as fine doesn't make them so.

Overall, tennis media continue to make Naomi's point for her. It's rather pitiful this supposedly objective group don't see they are doing exactly that in their rather petty response to this. And the US "journalists" in particular, really closing out Mental Health Awareness Month with a bang.

by nelslus

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 3:41 am No such things as too many words.
We, or at least I, talked about this part recently: that we "do not know" what these players go through. But we do, at least a little bit. We know that Naomi leads a life that would be the envy of many, a life of riches and fame. She is famous, extremely successful, has a boyfriend that seems to be very supportive, we hear nothing about family problems in the same fashion that, from very early, we heard about Capriatti, Pierce, Dokic or Mirjana Lucic. Those seem not to be there.
So, although the default mode here is not to blame people, having an opinion is an intrinsic part of what the forum is about.
Plus nobody here has claimed expertise in the subject but, by that same token, Naomi is not an expert either. She is an expert at hitting a tennis ball, not at psychiatric issues. We can talk.
And maybe, just maybe, every once in a while one of the rich and famous is the one that does not know what s/he is talking about. Maybe, just maybe, it is they that don't have a clue of what the rest of the world goes through.
And great that you are not going to hate on Naomi because I have read all the posts and nobody else is doing it either. Not immediately agreeing with somebody does not mean "hate". It simply means disagreement, just like Nadal and Barty, who maybe do know more about that world than we do, did.

To be clear, I was not suggesting that anyone in HERE was literally "hating" on Naomi, in the sense of being hateful. "Not hating" on someone these days can just be pretty much an innocuous statement. Some in the world, however, will be hateful towards her. But, I just meant to post that I am NOT hating on Naomi for having a ka-zillion dollars to do what I can't do- and even would love to be able to do, sometimes. Nothing more.

Nevertheless, I am going to suggest that perhaps the default setting should not be to doubt someone talking about mental health issues. How do you know she has no expertise concerning mental health issues? She knows her internal workings. We do not.

And, I have a handsome African-American partner (who, thankfully, clearly is not superficial), we've been together for 26 years, I have some life-long friends, I have done a lot of work in the social services that I am proud of, and both John and me make good incomes- and extremely good incomes compared to the rest of the world. In many ways, of course we are privileged. And, yet, I have diagnosed, clinical depression. Which both just has happened, and for which I definitely feel I have mountains of evidence that, this clinical depression is honestly earned. And that evidence ain't getting discussed in detail in Talk About Tennis 2.

IN any case, depression and mental issues don't ultimately give a **** about our incomes. It's all quite equal opportunity.

So, I am going to continue to question giving an opinion on anyone's life and issues- when none of us truly know. If it were to be definitely proven that I am all wrong specifically about Naomi even- hey, so be it. This is a topic that clearly must be aired, regardless. This all is too important and sensitive a topic, ponchi.

by nelslus PS: Most importantly- yes, there are, sometimes, too many words. And I am proof.

by Deuce

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 3:50 am Naomi absolutely made it clear that race and gender were a factor in this. If you missed that, you're missing the obvious.

^ Please point to how she has brought race and/or gender into her stance on not doing any media/press at Roland Garros.
I've done specific searches for this, and have found absolutely no reference - obvious or subtle - to either race or gender in her statements about not doing media.

If you have evidence that her position of not doing media at Roland Garros is about race and/or gender, by all means, show us - in Naomi's words, please, not just in a personal perception of her words.

At the U.S. Open, she wore the different masks and talked about race - so, yes, she has a history of taking on that subject. But I've seen no evidence that this current position is about race or gender in any way. All the evidence I've seen points to her focussing on the mental health/psychological issues of players WITHOUT restricting it to any race or gender. And I feel that's the right approach - to include EVERYONE who may be affected.

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 3:50 amReal interesting to see y'all pretend like tennis media don't ask ignorant questions of players, especially black players. The tennis media perceiving their questions as fine doesn't make them so.

I have seen the media be very critical of Djokovic, Zverev, Shapovalov, Paire, etc. - all white men. Going back further, I've seen the media be highly critical of Soderling, Connors, Lendl, McEnroe, Nastase, Tiriac, Tanner, etc., etc. - all white men, as well. And there are many more.
I have also seen Serena get away with several things that some other players - notably white males - would have been crucified for in the media.
I haven't seen any criticism of or disrespect shown toward Cori Gauff that has seemed to be in any way racially motivated or based in any form of discrimination. I've seen very little criticism of Gauff - I've seen far more positive things about her in the media than negative. Far, far more.

That's not to say that black players have not been mistreated by the media - of course they have. But so, too, have white American males. And white Czechs. And Aboriginal Australians. And Japanese. And every other colour and nationality under the sun - of both genders. And some of that mistreatment (I'd say a relatively small portion) has very likely been based in racial bias and/or discrimination of some degree. In tennis media, I don't see how any colour or nationality has been favoured over others, nor do I see that any colour or nationality has been more often criticized or disrespected or more unfairly treated than any other.

Racism certainly does exist, and it is a serious issue. No-one can honestly deny that. But seeing it at and around absolutely every corner serves only to trivialize the issue - in a 'crying wolf' sort of way.

by ponchi101 Nothing unexpected:
Naomi Osaka fined $15,000 for media boycott, warned about escalating consequences

by Suliso From that statement:

We have advised Naomi Osaka that should she continue to ignore her media obligations during the tournament, she would be exposing herself to possible further Code of Conduct infringement consequences. As might be expected, repeat violations attract tougher sanctions including default from the tournament (Code of Conduct article III T.) and the trigger of a major offence investigation that could lead to more substantial fines and future Grand Slam suspensions (Code of Conduct article IV A.3.).

by ti-amie

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 6:07 pm From that statement:

We have advised Naomi Osaka that should she continue to ignore her media obligations during the tournament, she would be exposing herself to possible further Code of Conduct infringement consequences. As might be expected, repeat violations attract tougher sanctions including default from the tournament (Code of Conduct article III T.) and the trigger of a major offence investigation that could lead to more substantial fines and future Grand Slam suspensions (Code of Conduct article IV A.3.).

Benoit Paire's on court conduct.
Cirstea literally shoving a chair umpire.
Bashilasvili(sp)
Zverev
Querrey fleeing in a private jet after a positive Covid test

But hey, skip a presser and you suffer the wrath of the ITF.

by ponchi101 None of the events you are talking about happened at a Slam, so the ITF does not have jurisdiction over those.
You can add to that list:
Fabio's insult to the chair umpire (I believe it was in Italy).
Kyrgios tanking sets at Wimby (which I believe we all agreed warranted more than the nothing they did).
Certainly there are others.

The practical side? Allow Naomi to skip the pressers, with no fines or anything, and most players will not go, not because of any stand or opinion, but simply because they are boring.

by ti-amie No these things didn't happen at Slams but tennis "media" losing its collective mind over one player making a decision makes me wonder what provoked her decision.

That said we can always do the "Imagine if player so and so did...". There are bigger things than skipping a presser the tennis media could be upset about especially since it's been years since RG posted transcripts or video of post match pressers.

As Marshawn Lynch said

by ponchi101 Is the media "losing" its mind? I really don't know if there has been an uproar over this. I have only seen it reported, not blown out of proportion.
What should RG do? Simply accept it? It is a contractual obligation.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 6:55 pm Is the media "losing" its mind? I really don't know if there has been an uproar over this. I have only seen it reported, not blown out of proportion.
What should RG do? Simply accept it? It is a contractual obligation.

There was a virtual riot on Tennis Twitter earlier today between tennis fans and "the media" after that ITF statement. Yes they're losing their minds.
Brad Gilbert and a few others have been voices of reason.

by ponchi101 Ok, you know I am not in social media. But who was losing their minds? The fans or the journalists? I do not believe that Twitter falls under main-stream media, as social media is by definition a different thing.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 6:59 pm Ok, you know I am not in social media. But who was losing their minds? The fans or the journalists? I do not believe that Twitter falls under main-stream media, as social media is by definition a different thing.

Tennis MSM - Clarey, Simon Briggs, Jon Wertheim, Simon Cambers - those types are on Twitter. Clarey has stayed above the fray. I haven't seen any of the Aussies or Brits but I've been off the bird app for awhile.

by ti-amie

There was video of the incident but I can't find it...

Found it

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 6:49 pm No these things didn't happen at Slams but tennis "media" losing its collective mind over one player making a decision makes me wonder what provoked her decision.

That said we can always do the "Imagine if player so and so did...". There are bigger things than skipping a presser the tennis media could be upset about especially since it's been years since RG posted transcripts or video of post match pressers.

As Marshawn Lynch said

I think the reason that the tennis media - and media in general - are so upset at Naomi doing this is because they can foresee it snowballing, with more and more players choosing to do the same thing now that the ice has been broken. And that could well threaten their jobs - or render them nothing more than gossip mongers, writing articles full of speculation and assumptions because they're not getting anything directly from the players.
They have good reason to be scared.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 6:55 pm Is the media "losing" its mind? I really don't know if there has been an uproar over this. I have only seen it reported, not blown out of proportion.
What should RG do? Simply accept it? It is a contractual obligation.

And that's the problem - it should never be a contractual obligation. Never in a million years. The only contractual obligation players should have should be that they always give their best effort on the court, and abide by the rules of the game. Doing media, doing ads for sponsors, etc. is all extra-curricular stuff, and should not be legislated by the governing bodies of the sport.
Marshawn Lynch was right. One's basic rights as a human being should come well ahead of any obligation to talk with the media. It's called freedom, and everyone has a right to it.

by ti-amie I think that when the FFT decided not to post interviews in any format - print or video - there should've been more of an uproar. The only folks talking about it were a few bloggers, who were the folks specifically targeted by the decision. Credentialed media didn't think it was fair to give the general public access to the same information they had a "right" to because they were credentialed.

If the FFT hadn't taken this stance I might be more sympathetic to their position.

Osaka didn't say she was boycotting at ALL slams but that is how it's being portrayed.

by Deuce Naomi did do the after match on-court interview with Fabrice Santoro today, for anyone wondering.

by Fastbackss Mari Osaka posted on reddit some more detail on why Naomi was doing this. I read it while half asleep and retained none of it. I went back to post here and it's gone. I am sure screenshots are out there.

by MJ2004

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:36 pm Mari Osaka posted on reddit some more detail on why Naomi was doing this. I read it while half asleep and retained none of it. I went back to post here and it's gone. I am sure screenshots are out there.

This article includes Mari's post:
https://wwos.nine.com.au/tennis/naomi-o ... 2513f2ef80

by ponchi101 Naomi has withdrawn from the tournament.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 7:25 pm Naomi has withdrawn from the tournament.

Now that's a statement.

(Also, someone posted it below and there were some comments.)

Crossed my mind that she might but I didn't really think she would. I'm glad this won't continue to dominate the tournament for the rest of the week. Should simmer down for the tournament and then we'll see how ti's handled going forward. Obviously she will be asked about it if she returns to press conferences, and she'll be prepared, and most of the press corps (at least in English) will be empathetic, and we won't be talking about this by the US Open or even by the end of Wimbledon unless she struggles on the court or takes up this mantle publicly. That's my prediction. I've been wrong before!

Not many people talk about her taking part in the boycott during Cincy. These things blow over pretty fast... because we care more about the actual tennis. Pretty soon we'll be back to talking favorites and form, except those obsessed with tennis media.

An American player ranked in the 400s or 500s (who also has a budding media career) pointed out that many players deal with depression but can't afford to skip a presser, much less withdraw from a tournament and walk away from prize money. Osaka's lucky that she can afford to take care of herself in that way. She has resources, she'll get help, unless maybe there's a stigma against depression in Japanese culture?

by Deuce Honestly - did Naomi truly expect that everyone in the tennis world would agree with her, and that things would change immediately?
I think the reaction of the 4 Majors was quite predictable. Maybe Naomi and her people should have become better acquainted with the rules before taking on this project. She announced that she was ready to accept the consequences of her actions - but when the consequences came, she bolted.

Perhaps its the reaction from her fellow players that surprised her - she didn't get much, if any, support for her position of not talking to the media. All the other players I heard express a perspective said that they feel that doing media is 'part of the job', and that, while not always pleasant, they don't see it as a big deal. I think Naomi was counting on more support from her peers, and when that didn't happen, she was hurt.

I truly liked Naomi when she first started doing well. She was shy, introverted, honest, avoiding the spotlight, seeking to hide from attention rather than seeking attention. But, gradually, she has sought out too much attention for my liking. What she did at the U.S. Open with the masks was wonderful, and she did it in a very understated and effective manner. But since then, she has sought out the spotlight too much - with the fashion stuff, bikini photos, high profile 'famous' boyfriend, etc. How did such a naturally shy introvert become the most popular and highest paid female athlete?
She has brought a lot of attention onto herself with her outside-of-tennis activities. Naturally, when you expose yourself and seek the public's attention to that degree, you cannot possibly expect that all reactions will be positive. But it looks like that's exactly what she was expecting.

It seems that, as a very popular, 'famous', and very rich athlete, she was expecting that everyone will always love her and agree with her, and that she'll always get her way. This, then, might be seen as a rather rude awakening for her; proving that 'fame' is really just a grand illusion.
One can't really blame her too much - after all, not very long ago, she was simply a very shy, quiet introvert whom no-one knew. To go from that to being one of the richest and most 'famous' people on the planet in such a short time, and at such a young age, is sure to shake one up emotionally and psychologically. And then to further discover that 'fame' is not all it's cracked up to be... well, that can break you down.

I hope that Naomi will go back to being who she truly is - the shy, sincere introvert who avoids the spotlight far more than she seeks it. Only then, in my opinion, will she truly find the inner peace that she's searching for.

by ponchi101 Billie Jean King gives her opinion.
Billie Jean King Delicately Reminds Naomi Osaka Of ‘Responsibility’ To Press

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:47 am Billie Jean King gives her opinion.
Billie Jean King Delicately Reminds Naomi Osaka Of ‘Responsibility’ To Press

She could have and should have sat this out. How many viewed her took a hit because of her response. Check the replies, there is overwhelming disappointment from people that have long admired her.

by nelslus I am truly disgusted by the earlier responses from the Grand Slam poo-bahs. But, hey- they clearly got what they wanted, while also letting everyone know what is really important- post match interviews vs. one's well-being. Spare a thought, btw, if you really want to keep going on and on about how Naomi mishandled this- she's 23. How old are the rest of us? (Spoiler alert: I'm not exactly 23.) It'd have been nice if these poo-bahs could have, for once, focused less on the "bottom line" and actually tried to be the adults here.

I'd really like it if everyone would stop telling someone- much less a woman of color, famous or otherwise- what they should and should not do. Not a good look. Yes, we clearly are all allowed to our opinions. But, perhaps we all should focus a lot more on fixing what we can fix the most- improving our opinions about ourselves, cleaning up our own (expletive), and stop should-ing all over over others.

I'd really like it if more in here could spare a moment to actually some compassion and caring for someone who has been brave enough- rich person and all that- to talk about her obviously serious mental health issues with depression. When this really should not have bene anyone's business outside of her inner circle of loved ones.

Maybe if you all understood how hard it can be just to crawl out of bed every day when you have clinical depression, and go to work every day- how much energy it takes to speak out- when knowing that by doing so, you risk making the depression even worse- because it sometimes just reinforces the notion of how no one will really listen, anyway, so why complain? Before you try to come out the other side and realize that you have to take risks to fight this horror. Really, truly- depression is horrible. I swear. I've crumbled now and then, and I can only imagine what the "opinions" of so, so many, as Naomi must face. (And, truly, whatever Naomi's sister posted should not at all reflect on Naomi and any discussion. I'd rip my biological family a new one if they ever dared to try to Instagram their take on my life.)

Trust that there is a huge stigma about depression and mental health issues in every culture. Obviously, this site is nowhere near what the rest of the world shovels out. Everyone in here is, of course, a good person. But, after reading a few comments in here- I genuinely feel the stigma coming out in here. Would I confide with a few of you further at this point in time? No. And, trust that just about everyone has those in their lives who struggle with mental health issues. At its worst, depression makes you never want to talk with anyone ever again. Please consider how you may unintentionally be shutting people down, just when they really might be helped if you would just listen. (Or, HEY, feel free to ignore what I'm saying- I'm just one of those depressed people, after all.)

by the Moz I support Naomi on this one. The fact this 'row' is over the actions of players after a match I think is a discussion that is fair game. I support player's speaking out about the various dimensions of their sport. Yes, rules are rules. But rules can change. And journalists need to ask better questions. They need to do their job better. If you feel something isn't right then you should speak up and do something about it. Nothing will change otherwise.

p.s. the FFT statement last night in support of Naomi was hollow and the guy they sent out to read it didn't even take questions afterward. C'est riche, no?

by ponchi101 Has she been diagnosed as clinically depressed? Or any other related condition?
Serious question.

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:39 pm Has she been diagnosed as clinically depressed? Or any other related condition?
Serious question.

While she can choose to disclose that information (she hasn't although she noted she's had bouts of depression, that might be self-diagnosed), it is not our place to demand that information and it would be illegal for the slams to ask for it since they do not directly employ her. Since the WTA is a US-based organization, they/her employment/contracting would have to adhere to HIPAA laws, which protect patient privacy.

by mmmm8 I've come around to Naomi's side on this. This is essentially akin to an employee asking for accommodations for a disability, which is something employers are required to provide by law in many/most countries including, usually, for mental health issues (although, typically, a medical diagnosis would be required). At the core, it's a reasonable request and she is right that accommodations should be made available to all those who need them.

I think it's ok to say she HAS handled sub-optimally. I don't care if she's "only 23"- I work with plenty of 23-year-old professionals who are not treated differently from older colleagues, plus she has a team of seasoned professionals around to advise her. She hasn't done anything outrageous, so doesn't deserve some of the vitriol she's getting, but she could have made her stance better.

The Grand Slams are also run by adults who have handled this more than sub-optimally. I understand their annoyance, but the statement put out was petty and is backfiring. They should have quietly fined her and then worked with her management for Wimbledon and this might have gone away. Now they look like the bad guys just by following existing rules.

Finally, while tennis journalist questions can be awful and boring/obnoxious (the tweets upthread from Enrico Riva were very accurate to my experience in pressers), I don't know if "asking better questions" would solve this problem. Better questions would likely lead to even more player introspection, create even more pressure and cause further anxiety to players prone to it.

by Suliso @4m8: I think you have made a good argument. Albeit in corporate world this is done by arranging it quietly with the direct manager and HR not by putting them on the spot by announcing it at say the department meeting.

Of course I take it all back if we later learn that RG was contacted and refused to even consider.

by the Moz Yes, the media asking better questions won't solve the problem. But as they are part of the problem, they need to be part of the solution. So for me their status quo doesn't cut it. They can do better and should.

by Suliso What exactly is the media fault in this particular case?

by ponchi101 How would you decide what "better questions" are? Remember years ago when Wozniacki went to a Novak interview and asked a bunch of crazy questions, just to prove that most of the questions asked by the press were boring? That they are inane?
You just beat somebody 3 & 4, in a humdrum second round match. What "interesting" questions can be asked, about the match?
Then you have the "dumb" questions. Last year at the USO, Naomi was wearing her face masks with the names of victims. The on court interviewer asked her what "name" she would wear the next time, as if the entire exercise were some game show episode. Naomi actually handled that brilliantly, explaining that it was precisely not a vain exercise. She was, if I recall well, eloquent and very thorough in her response.
In the end, sports journalism is as deep as fashion journalism. Grown up men and women playing games. Very difficult to ask "better questions" when the subject at hand is literally a game. The only time when a "better question" can be asked is when an athlete steps out of those boundaries and becomes socially engaged, like Lebron has done for the last two/three years, or Kaepernick before that, or even Ali back in the day.
And in those cases, it is the athlete that had decided to use his/her platform to talk about something of more relevance, not the press that has asked inappropriate, non-sport questions. Imagine is Kaepernick had taken a knee and at the press conference nobody would have asked him about it. Or Ali refusing to be drafted and that not being talked about. Or, last year, Naomi wearing her masks and having something to say about the serious issues in the country, but nobody from the press asking her for her message.
The press will ask you as much as you want to answer. Remember Andy Murray: from very early on he and his family made it clear that he would not talk about the Dunblane shooting. As far as I can tell, the press has always honored that request, as they should.

by the Moz

Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:50 pm What exactly is the media fault in this particular case?

Naomi Osaka posted to her Twitter on 26 May that she would not be doing any press during RG and a conversation started...

by the Moz The press will ask you as much as you want to answer

I think we know where Naomi stands on this ATM.

by Suliso

the Moz wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:59 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:50 pm What exactly is the media fault in this particular case?
Naomi Osaka posted to her Twitter on 26 May that she would not be doing any press during RG and a conversation started...

So? What did you expect? That the press would keep quiet about it?

by ponchi101 @ Moz.
Sure. Which is the point. She is not the only actor here. She is one, the press are another, tournaments too. Disparate people are giving opinions, as varied as BJK, fellow players, and journalists that now have no access to her (Wertheim has been interviewed by SI.COM and that is posted on line).
Heck, there might even be a board somewhere where people are talking about the subject. It would be strange but it might be happening.
And yes, the press will ask you as much as you want to answer, and if you meant that they will not stop there, then you are right. And plenty of interviewees have said "I am not going to answer that one". A simple statement that works well. You don't get fined for not answering questions.

by the Moz Naomi is looking like she wants to be an agent for change. I welcome that

by ponchi101 Again, sure. If she wants to introduce a conversation about changing how interviews are held, so sure, she can say so. But that is not what she originally was talking about. The key words in her original statement were about mental health, which is the crux of her particular stand.
For example, and these are just things that we have spoken here at TAT2.0: Deuce believes that players should NOT be forced to go to the interviews; they should not be compulsory. I would get rid of any on court interview BEFORE or AFTER a match. Either the player is about to go on court and needs to focus, or has not been able to collect his thoughts after a win. Silly answers could be uttered which then are picked by social media and turned into memes.
You can have other proposals: should the number of questions be limited? Should the time? Should they be submitted prior to the interview? All changes that could be talked about.
But she has not talked about that. She said it was affecting players' mental health, for which there is no evidence. Most players that have voiced an opinion say that they see it as part of the job. No other player has joined her, saying they feel the same way.
If she is being affected, then, as M8 says, privately come to an arrangement with the tours. If she really is suffering mental issues due to the interviews, or these are exacerbating these issues, she can be excused from them after an arrangement with all governing bodies, but it has to be justifiable (unless Deuce's idea of non-compulsory interviews come to fruition).
But Suliso and I asked two specific question: how was the press responsible for the issue (Suliso) and how could you ask "better questions" (I). I would love to hear your answer.
And there is something else: what if the rest of the players do not want to change the system? What if everybody wants to keep it? Andujar's interview after beating Thiem was a gem, and I am sure (and hope) he might get a little money from it, by perhaps a new endorsement or a TV show appearance. If he can, and wants to, please, go ahead.
In the Roland Garros topic you saw the funny reply that Medvedev gave to a question. The sport is better for those kinds of occasions. You cannot get rid of an entire system because one player does not like it, if everybody else agrees with it.

by MJ2004 If a person is suffering from depression and find it affects them negatively when attending unpleasant work meetings with annoying colleagues that ask stupid questions, is it ok for them to say they are going to continue to do the enjoyable parts of the job only, while planning to skip the work meetings?

I think in this scenario most reasonable people would first privately address this concern with their manager to see what solution could be arranged, and not first publicly send out an email to the global organization stating that they would no longer attend work meetings because they negatively impact the person's mental health.

Then, if the meetings are deemed integral to the job and no other solution can be arranged, the person should expect to take time off from their job to recover before returning to all aspects of work, even the parts that are more difficult to deal with.

I feel for Naomi if she is truly suffering from depression, anyone who has been watching her over the years should not be surprised by yesterday's admission. But she has not handled this well at all, and being "only" 23 is not an excuse. Hopefully some time off will give her a chance to address issues and work towards recovery.

by mmmm8 But are the unpleasant meetings in question an integral part of this particular job? Is she being compensated for the annoying meetings?

(Could be argued either way)

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:21 pm But are the unpleasant meetings in question an integral part of this particular job? Is she being compensated for the annoying meetings?

(Could be argued either way)

Yes and yes (built into prize money).

by ti-amie

the Moz wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:40 am I support Naomi on this one. The fact this 'row' is over the actions of players after a match I think is a discussion that is fair game. I support player's speaking out about the various dimensions of their sport. Yes, rules are rules. But rules can change. And journalists need to ask better questions. They need to do their job better. If you feel something isn't right then you should speak up and do something about it. Nothing will change otherwise.

p.s. the FFT statement last night in support of Naomi was hollow and the guy they sent out to read it didn't even take questions afterward. C'est riche, no?

That guy was the head of the FFT which makes what he did even worse.

by ti-amie I'll put this here because...

by Liamvalid Inverdale has always been a twonk. I’ll repeat what that guy said, why has he still got a job?

by MJ2004

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:29 pm Inverdale has always been a twonk. I’ll repeat what that guy said, why has he still got a job?

After what he said about Bartoli, there's no excuse for him still having a job.

by mmmm8 Speaking of, Bartoli is doing post-match interviews and she looks positively glowing.

by ponchi101 Somebody was too blatant in her activities?
Russian tennis player Yana Sizikova arrested at French Open in match-fixing investigation

by Suliso I was just thinking that Iga Swiatek and Justine Henin do really have very similar body types. Iga is subjectively better looking and 9 cm taller, but still there is a lot of outward similarity. Funny...

by JTContinental

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:10 pm Somebody was too blatant in her activities?
Russian tennis player Yana Sizikova arrested at French Open in match-fixing investigation

Reading in between the lines, she was part of a mob ring?

by mmmm8

JTContinental wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:18 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:10 pm Somebody was too blatant in her activities?
Russian tennis player Yana Sizikova arrested at French Open in match-fixing investigation
Reading in between the lines, she was part of a mob ring?

More likely got paid off by one to lose serve in that specific game

I think the masterminds behind this racket may have changed as sports gambling and technology have evolved over the last few years. I've seen plenty of these guys at tournaments (they have scoring devices that communicate scores to "home base" before it goes public) - usually just young hipsters rather than what we typically picture as mobsters.

by Suliso Another random thought - lots of players of Russian descent these days playing for other countries. Most notable would be Zverev, Shapovalov, Tsitsipas, Davidovich Fokina, Kenin, Anisimova, Rybakina, Bublik, Putintseva, Gavrilova.

by ponchi101 Tsisipas? Is the mother Russian?

by Suliso

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:02 pm Tsisipas? Is the mother Russian?

Yes. The only one from a mixed family, I believe for all others both parents are from Russia.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:02 pm Tsisipas? Is the mother Russian?

She was a Russian tennis player, but she is of both Greek and Russian descent.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:10 pm Somebody was too blatant in her activities?
Russian tennis player Yana Sizikova arrested at French Open in match-fixing investigation

We'll be seeing more and more stories like this, sadly, as betting and gambling become more and more prevalent.
It won't be pretty.

Sometimes the players may be voluntarily complicit... but with the undeniable presence of organized crime within gambling, there may be instances where the player is coerced to participate through threats.
Maybe that's even the case in this situation.

by ponchi101 Something that the Anti-corruption division (I forget their real name) should indeed look into. It is not like any of the mafias care about breaking somebody's knees, of their families'.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Hooray for Gilbert and Murray. The MTO usage should be discussed.

by Deuce I propose that the top ATP and WTA executives, and 6 player representatives (must be active players - 3 of each gender) hold a high meeting together to discuss at length the matter of Medical Time Outs and bathroom breaks - and that they interrupt the Wimbledon Men's Final to hold this meeting - just for irony's sake.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Shouldn't this be a bigger story? Can you imagine any of the men currently in the Big Three ever saying something like this instead of fighting to find a way to make another point? Everyone always drags the "Next Gen" WTA but this is pathetic. Becker's comment in the article is 100% correct.

by Suliso All the attention was on 39 year old Federer instead...

by dmforever

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:58 pm Shouldn't this be a bigger story? Can you imagine any of the men currently in the Big Three ever saying something like this instead of fighting to find a way to make another point? Everyone always drags the "Next Gen" WTA but this is pathetic. Becker's comment in the article is 100% correct.

Thank you so much for posting this. I was watching that match and never saw any hint at all of an injury. Musetti's movement was the same throughout the match. So I was really wondering where he'd gotten injured.

I'm trying to find the article on that website but can't. Did he say that he retired because he just couldn't win any more points? If he said that, I hope the ATP really penalized him to the maximum extent possible.

None of the articles on that site appear when I click on them. Is it just me? Is there a paywall? I looked for a place to subscribe but didn't see anything.

Kevin

by ti-amie The story linked to in the tweet has the quote.

by dmforever

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:12 pm The story linked to in the tweet has the quote.

I found the story at tennismajors.com but nothing on that site opens for me.

This may be the same article.

https://www.eurosport.com/tennis/roland ... tory.shtml

I just listened to it. Unless he really apologizes, he's just lost a fan. For me it's a huge sign of disrespect. I hope his camp gives him a good talking to.

Kevin

by ti-amie This is what Becker said. Weird. It opened last night and now it won't.

“The young guns don’t understand that. It’s not just playing tennis; it’s about character …”

by ponchi101 Unless there is some issue with his English and he could not transmit his idea properly, indeed, that is pretty lame and a total disrespect for the game. If you can't win a point, try harder or take your beating.
In a slow fashion, there have been a lot of retirements in this tournament, and plenty with controversy. This one adds to the last list.

by ti-amie From Jose Morgado:

Also Becker said this:

Boris Becker was so angry at his live comment during match

" You need the balls to take a bagel in the 5th against a champ like Nole for respect! It is a GS. It is five sets, it is very hard - it is a slam"!

by ti-amie Eurosport posted the video. I hope you guys can see it.

https://www.eurosport.com/tennis/roland ... tory.shtml

by ti-amie

No one has said he isn't her psychologist so I guess this isn't a joke of some kind?

by Deuce Regarding Musetti retiring...
While I don't like this kind of thing, and feel it should be strongly discouraged, I will also cut him some slack because he's a young kid and each experience like this is new to him.
Someone should talk with him about this, and tell him why it's wrong - but I don't feel any punishment is warranted at this point.

I'm more disturbed by Federer quitting - because he knows the ropes, and should have more respect for the sport, the fans, and his peers than that. Yes, Federer has given a lot to tennis - but tennis has given just as much - maybe more - to Federer.

by dmforever Someone should have asked him that if he had been up 4-0 in the 5th, would he have finished? I bet he would have said that he would have, which just means that he pulled the ultimate tank. If Kygrios gets rightfully fined for not putting in 100% effort, surely Musetti should as well.

Also, Becker said that he gave Berrettini the advantage in the quarters because Nole had a 5-set match and Berrettini had the day off. Does anyone else here give Matteo much of a chance? Or is Becker just saying that because of sour grapes? I actually never heard about how or why Nole fired Boris. In the press they both gave the prerequisite answers of respect and mutual admirations blah blah blah. If anyone has the inside scoop, I'm all ears.

Kevin

by ponchi101 Musetti took two sets from Novak, with a less mature game than Mateo. Sure, I give him a 30% chance of beating Novak; it would not be earth shattering.
Then again, it is Novak at a slam. It takes dumb errand balls to get him out, or Rafa on clay.

by ti-amie

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:52 pm Eurosport posted the video. I hope you guys can see it.

https://www.eurosport.com/tennis/roland ... tory.shtml

I hope some of you could watch the video of Musetti's post match presser because the narrative has changed...

by dmforever I've never seen a match where you couldn't see that the player who was cramping was cramping. It's impossible to cramp and not show that externally. I think he meant he was brain cramping.

Kevin

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:15 pm
I hope some of you could watch the video of Musetti's post match presser because the narrative has changed...

To all of it.

by ponchi101 "In comes the PR guys, sit down with the guilty part, and clearly tell him: you just F. Up. Let us help".

by dmforever During the Nole-Matteo match 2 days ago Jim Courier, who is one of the few commentators I actually like, said something that really surprised me. He said that he thought it was likely that both Nole and Rafa would win each major twice. Is that what most experts think? I would be shocked if Nole wins the French again and equally shocked if Rafa wins the AO. What do y'all think?

Kevin

by Suliso Possible, but I think rather unlikely, especially for Rafa. For Nole the best chance would be to win today.

by ponchi101 I think Nole has a second RG sometime soon. Rafa is one year older.
Rafa winning at Melbourne I find harder to see. He has a great track record there, but it is one slam where the new crop may start shining soon. Medvedev specially.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Skipping WImbledon will be admitting he no longer has it outside of clay.

by Suliso

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:08 pm Skipping WImbledon will be admitting he no longer has it outside of clay.

Or preparing for USO, his second best GS surprisingly.

by Suliso After seeing a sudden single success of first Stosur and now Krejcikova (to lesser degree Mladenovic and Garcia) I wonder if there are more so called doubles specialists which ought to concentrate on singles seriously.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:08 pm Skipping WImbledon will be admitting he no longer has it outside of clay.

What? He has a foot or leg injury from yesterday's match. Why are you making this kind of leap?

by ponchi101 Because I had not heard that he had that injury. That would be understandable, then.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:54 pm

Please God no. That's a true miscalculation of her popularity and likability.

by the Moz Is there a USTA locker room she can use before heading to set

by Deuce

Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:23 pm After seeing a sudden single success of first Stosur and now Krejcikova (to lesser degree Mladenovic and Garcia) I wonder if there are more so called doubles specialists which ought to concentrate on singles seriously.

I find it very unfortunate that singles and doubles success are seen as being mutually exclusive now, with players giving up doubles to "concentrate on singles". It's bizarre, because doubles is actually less taxing today with the no-ad scoring, 'super tiebreak' 3rd set, etc., in the majority of tournaments, than it was 30, 40 years ago.
Perhaps Navratilova should have a talk with the current generation, and encourage them to keep going in both disciplines.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:54 pm

Well... Umm...

Uhh...

.

by dave g

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:54 pm

It makes me wonder if this is a comment on Genie Bouchard or a comment on The Tennis Channel.

by JazzNU

by Suliso That's an unusually early end to a career these days. She'll be 30 in December. All the best of course.

by patrick

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:36 pm That's an unusually early end to a career these days. She'll be 30 in December. All the best of course.

Was Wozniacki about that age when she called it a career?

by JazzNU Yes, Caro retired after Aussie Open last year, so I think she was 29 at the time.

For Kiki. I think this recent injury and bouncing back has taken a lot out of her.

And along with other considerations, I am now thinking more and more about what Kerber said about friends on tour retiring. Could very well be a factor for Kiki as well, a few of her closest friends have bid farewell to the tour in the last couple of years.

by ponchi101 A player that was a bit incognito for me. The few times I saw her, it was nice. But it was very few times.
The best for her.

by Suliso

patrick wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:14 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:36 pm That's an unusually early end to a career these days. She'll be 30 in December. All the best of course.
Was Wozniacki about that age when she called it a career?

Yes, but that also was much sooner than most. I think the average is more like 32-33 these days.

by JazzNU

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:33 pm Yes, but that also was much sooner than most. I think the average is more like 32-33 these days.

I'm guessing you're right, but we've had several bigger names that have been a bit younger than that recently. Aga, Julia, Domi, and Ana come to mind in addition to Caro.

by Suliso

JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:20 pm I'm guessing you're right, but we've had several bigger names that have been a bit younger than that recently. Aga, Julia, Domi, and Ana come to mind in addition to Caro.

Right, but on the other end Serena and Venus are still playing. Julia retired at 31, by the way.

by atlpam

JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:20 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:33 pm Yes, but that also was much sooner than most. I think the average is more like 32-33 these days.
I'm guessing you're right, but we've had several bigger names that have been a bit younger than that recently. Aga, Julia, Domi, and Ana come to mind in addition to Caro.

I'm sure the desire to start a family influences this decision for some. It was important to me to have my first child before turning 30. Although many people wait longer these days, there are also good health reasons to start earlier.
This is why it makes it more important to make it easier for players to return after pregnancy if they choose.

by ponchi101 Serena, Venus and Roger are the exceptions, not the rule. Sure, Venus is dependent on WC's to get into tournaments. AT 40. Still pretty good.
We will see how long can Novak keep it going, and he may be an exception too.
Other than that, they start declining at 30, it takes them a year or two to accept it. I gather 7 or 8 first round losses in a row is what opens their eyes.

by Deuce Crap... I suppose that means no Kki/Coco doubles team

.
And she has 2 Cocos to choose from!

by ti-amie It looks like they missed Fuscovic's visit to the ATP offices...

by ponchi101

by Suliso We've discussed post big 3 era of ATP a fair bit, but how about looking at next 5 years of WTA? Who will be the top players and consistent title winners? I deliberately leave the bar relatively low - at least 2 GS titles between this Wimbledon and Wimbledon 2026.

I think we can agree to ignore anyone who was born in 1991 or earlier.

Here is my list and very subjective assessment of future prospects (Slams won already in parenthesis)

Naomi Osaka (4) - high chance of winning more
Sofia Kenin (1) - not convinced there will be more
Bianca Andreescu (1) - great game, but health very suspect
Iga Swiatek (1) - high chance of winning more
Garbine Muguruza (2) - moderate chance of winning more
Ashleigh Barty (1) - moderate chance of winning more
Barbora Krejcikova (1) - most likely one and done

Aryna Sabalenka - strong game, but mentally suspect
Karolina Pliskova - I think her train has left the station
Coco Gauff - I think the best chance among those without a Slam already
Elena Rybakina - could it be?
Madison Keys - can she can back to her former level?
Paula Badosa - looks well balanced
Marketa Vondrousova - here on account of her RG final

And then there are few teenagers unlikely to be a threat this year and next, but we're talking five here - Kostyuk, Anisimova and Tauson.

Did I forget someone with a clear two Slam potential? Disagree with any of my choices?

by ponchi101 M. C. Osorio will have a chance at RG in the next 5 years. She will need a better training team, and she is undersized, but that is where such players tend to make up for their lack of height.
How about Sidanzek? Just had a good run at RG, and the forehand is beautiful.
Madison: I just don't see tennis as her real passion. If she losses, she is always fine. I find her too balanced a person to put the final effort. Would love to see her do it, though.
Mugu... how I wish I could agree with you. But she is incessantly injured and she has never been a huge striker of the ball. I just don't know (I know, I included her in my Wimby possibles, but she is so great at disappointing that I don't know).

by Deuce

Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:49 pm
And then there are few teenagers unlikely to be a threat this year and next, but we're talking five here - Kostyuk, Anisimova and Tauson.

Did I forget someone with a clear two Slam potential? Disagree with any of my choices?

I don't see Anisimova doing anything special. I think she'll stay somewhere between 20 and 40 in the rankings, and never threaten to win a Major.
The other two kids you mention fall into the 'to be determined' category for me. They both impressed in Juniors, but I haven't seen enough of either at the WTA level to predict anything.

I'd like to say that Leylah has the potential to win a Major... but at this point, I honestly don't see that happening. She has definitely surprised a bunch of people several times already with what she's achieved in her brief time at the WTA level though - so I wouldn't count her out of anything.

by Suliso Fernandez is undersized and underpowered, I don't see her winning Slams either. Kostyuk and Tauson are not therefore I assigned them a higher chance. Of course it could be I guessed the wrong players from that age group.

by ponchi101 You have documented very well Leylah's progress this year, Deuce, but at 5'4" it will be very hard to match the power of all the 6 footers that abound the tour. A long career hovering around #25 is very possible, but she will need something really special to make up for her lack of size.
Being left handed might help.

by ponchi101 Ok. Time for another AITA.
Roger retires from RG citing the need to listen to his body. But then he loses his first match at Halle and, with only one more week before Wimby, he does not even do the Novak and takes a WC in doubles at Mallorca? Again, AITA, but he needs court time now. His problem against FAA was that he could not even touch his serve, and you can't practice that on a practice court: you need to go out there and face real people trying to ace you for real.
For all the talk during all his career about all his great strokes, his return of serve was never mentioned when it was a superb shot. He used to tee off Roddick's FIRST SERVE and put people on the defensive immediately when he was returning. No way he can emulate that just practicing.

by Suliso

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:53 pm You have documented very well Leylah's progress this year, Deuce, but at 5'4" it will be very hard to match the power of all the 6 footers that abound the tour. A long career hovering around #25 is very possible, but she will need something really special to make up for her lack of size.
Being left handed might help.

You exaggerate a bit how small she is. Listed height is 5'6''. That is the same as Simona Halep but I don't see the same power and speed as Simona has.

Screenshot 2021-06-20 113136.jpg

by Suliso Yours must be more accurate then. I just took mine from Wikipedia.

by the Moz Wikipedia has solid merits, WTA website has solid issues.

by Deuce Leylah's greatest asset is her focus, determination, and drive. I've been watching pro tennis for over 40 years, and I honestly have never seen that level of those three elements in any other player - with the exception of Nadal.
I'm not saying that Leylah has Nadal's level of physical talent - no-one really does. But her level of focus, drive and determination definitely equals that of Nadal when Nadal was that age (and maybe older).
It is extremely uncommon.
Honestly, if she possessed but a common level of focus, drive, and determination, she'd be ranked around 150 or a bit lower instead of the 68 she is currently.

She has risen in the rankings considerably faster than even I thought she would. It's difficult to say how 'legitimate' that rise was because the ranking system was, and continues to be, rather messed up due to the pandemic.

I also like Leylah's game - she's not afraid out there - she plays aggressively. The first time I saw her play live was at a WTA tournament (qualifying), and I remember thinking - and saying out loud "The kid's got guts." She was 15 years old at the time. And she mixes things up, using a variety of shots - angles, drop shots, etc. She wants to be unpredictable on the court, and usually succeeds - though there are times when she falls into one rather predictable pattern or another.

Other short, successful players include Justine Henin and Amanda Coetzer. If Leylah can have a career like Coetzer, I'd be quite happy. She wouldn't be, though - she always strives to reach the top. As she should.
That's why I'll never say "No, she won't be able to do that" about her.

by Fastbackss

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:58 pm Ok. Time for another AITA.
Roger retires from RG citing the need to listen to his body. But then he loses his first match at Halle and, with only one more week before Wimby, he does not even do the Novak and takes a WC in doubles at Mallorca? Again, AITA, but he needs court time now. His problem against FAA was that he could not even touch his serve, and you can't practice that on a practice court: you need to go out there and face real people trying to ace you for real.
For all the talk during all his career about all his great strokes, his return of serve was never mentioned when it was a superb shot. He used to tee off Roddick's FIRST SERVE and put people on the defensive immediately when he was returning. No way he can emulate that just practicing.

There is a lot of merit in what you are suggesting regarding match play.

With that preface - sometimes you have to defer to someone with that much experience if they feel it is the proper process.

by ponchi101 Sure. Roger once asked me where my 20 slam trophies were and I had to tell him I lost them when the house burnt down, but...

If he wants to practice return of serve, he has a pretty good coach for that. Ljubicic had a monster serve so standing one foot inside the baseline when he serves will give Roger the equivalent of Isner's serve to deal with.
It is just that I am a great believer that there are some things in tennis that you simply can't emulate in the gym, and some things, when you play matches, that you can't emulate in practice. For example, playing tie-breaks in practice, and forcing you to believe that they are real, is not the same as getting into a real TB after fighting for 45 minutes and reaching 6-all.
Maybe it does not work for me, but maybe for people like Roger it does. It's just that the match he played against FAA means he escapes from the 2nd round and loses in the 3rd. The way he looked, he is SP first round pick material.

by JazzNU I'm not trying to make excuses for Roger's results, but I don't think he's been helped by playing so little, but not just because of his on-court performance. But because he's given himself very few opportunities to acclimate to bubble life on Tour. And obviously didn't have to deal with the worst of it in Australia. There are plenty of players who are still struggling with going from one bubble to another and they are on their 12th tournament played since the resumption, not the 4th like Federer. I'm not saying he'd otherwise look like 2018 Roger or anything, but more experience with the limitations on practicing and movement would've been to his benefit to figure out the best mix he needs to thrive in that environment.

I' haven't read the particulars, but the commentators have been talking about Wimbledon's bubble as if it will be stricter than what the players have had in recent months. And if that's true, I'm not clear on if they will have a setup closer to RG 2020 or closer to the US Open, which from what players have said, seem to have set up the best bubble environment to date with the many open spaces, practice facilities, and entertainment they made available.

If there are greater limitations once you enter the Wimbledon bubble, then the argument for Federer playing this week outside of it are likely even stronger. Because if he can't easily practice for extended periods with Zverev, Tsitsipas, Thiem, Schwartzman, etc. then that does seem like it may not be the best preparation given the rust we've seen.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Sorry. I am missing something. Sure, the post is not going to be printed and framed around the world for posterity, but why is the STAR person LMAO'ing?

by ti-amie They're laughing because Andreescu withdrew from Indian Wells March 8. The tournament was cancelled March 9. Ms Andreescu was caught in a lie.

by Fastbackss The way you said "Ms. Andreescu" made it sound like you are a prosecuting attorney (and I am all for it)

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:41 am Sorry. I am missing something. Sure, the post is not going to be printed and framed around the world for posterity, but why is the STAR person LMAO'ing?

It's because the photo with Bianca is cropped in that side by side. Unfortunately for Bianca these are all time stamped so easily exposed.

by JazzNU

Dayana Yastremska has provisional doping suspension lifted

Ukrainian Dayana Yastremska's provisional doping suspension has been lifted with immediate effect as there was no fault or negligence on her part, an independent tribunal under the Tennis Anti-Doping Programme said on Tuesday.

Yastremska, 21, was suspended in January after the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) found a banned substance in an out-of-competition urine sample she submitted.

She denied using performance-enhancing drugs and said the positive test was the result of a "contamination event." Since her provisional suspension, Yastremska filed many appeals but failed at every attempt.

The ban meant the world No. 37 was ineligible to play in the Australian Open despite travelling to Melbourne. She also missed the French Open and is not playing at Wimbledon which starts on Monday.

"I'm glad and relieved to announce that I have been cleared of any wrongdoing," Yastremska said on Twitter.

"I've been through a lot during the last six months and it has been difficult to cope with all the negative comments."

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... ion-lifted

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:27 pm
Dayana Yastremska has provisional doping suspension lifted

Ukrainian Dayana Yastremska's provisional doping suspension has been lifted with immediate effect as there was no fault or negligence on her part, an independent tribunal under the Tennis Anti-Doping Programme said on Tuesday.

Yastremska, 21, was suspended in January after the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) found a banned substance in an out-of-competition urine sample she submitted.

She denied using performance-enhancing drugs and said the positive test was the result of a "contamination event." Since her provisional suspension, Yastremska filed many appeals but failed at every attempt.

The ban meant the world No. 37 was ineligible to play in the Australian Open despite travelling to Melbourne. She also missed the French Open and is not playing at Wimbledon which starts on Monday.

"I'm glad and relieved to announce that I have been cleared of any wrongdoing," Yastremska said on Twitter.

"I've been through a lot during the last six months and it has been difficult to cope with all the negative comments."

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... ion-lifted

by JazzNU Scroll to the right in the photo for her full statement.

by JazzNU It's a true flaw in their system, using the presumption of guilt as the standard and not allowing a stay while it is fully investigated and litigated.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Excuse me for being frivolous but: what pretty signature from Dayana.
Agree with JazzNu. The system cannot work on assumption of guilt. It is not all the psychological pressure she went through, there is money lost in this case.
Keep it confidential, work with the player, but not announce doping suspensions unless 100% sure.

by JazzNU

by ti-amie This was posted by @jon_wertheim

ATP Player Letter

We, the Professional Tennis Players Association (PTPA), on behalf of the undersigned players of the ATP, are writing to express our concern with the ATP’s proposed 30-year plan (the “Plan”) and to request that any vote on the Plan be delayed until our questions have been answered in detail. The PTPA is committed to building a fair and sustainable competitive environment for players today, and for generations to come.

We believe professional tennis must have a strong, healthy, and competitive ATP that serves all of its stakeholders. However, the Plan is extremely vague about key issues including, but not limited to, a complete understanding for how it will affect revenues, health benefits, prize money, player image rights, and tournament commitments for the next 30 years.

For example, it appears the ATP seeks to profit from the players’ images and to retain “control of data rights” in order to generate revenue from “betting and non-betting markets.” We have serious questions about how the ATP plans to mine player data and who owns the data. The Plan may endanger each player's ability to build their personal brands and freely use their own name, image, and likeness for the next 30 years.

We agree with the ATP that the sport needs to generate revenue commensurate with its fan base and is in full support of a new plan that grows the sport. As the ATP points out in the Plan, “tennis ranks 4th in popularity worldwide, with more than 1 billion fans globally. However, it generates only 1.3% of the total value of global sports media rights.” The sport can do better.

We want to work with the ATP on a fair deal that ensures both players and tournaments can prosper going forward. We are asking for answers and transparency. If a goal of the Plan is a true partnership, answers and real transparency seems like a good place to start.

We are requesting information about specific questions because the answers could be the difference for hundreds of players earning a livelihood or not; therefore, we are demanding answers and an ability to do our diligence on these answers and follow ups, as needed. Rushing a vote on such an important and lasting plan is unnecessary and unfair to the players.

The Plan is scheduled to go into effect in January 2023, so there is no valid reason not to delay the vote until players’ questions are answered in detail. Last year, before the 30-year plan was delayed by COVID-19, ATP had planned to vote on it just seven months in advance, so there is plenty of time for thoughtful consideration.

Here are just some of the dozens of questions we have for the ATP:

- Why is the Plan 30 years?
- How will player data be mined and how will it be used?
- What benefit do the players receive for granting the ATP the right to mine and monetize their data?
- Do players share in the increased value to ATP Media?
- Do players share in the increased value to the tournaments?
- What has been negotiated with private equity firm CVC and how will it affect players?
- What added benefits (health, insurance, pension) will the players receive?
- What happens to the Plan if the ATP cannot aggregate rights with the Grand Slams, WTA & ITF?
- Why is the profit share being done on an aggregate and not individual tournament basis (seems to benefit the tournaments)?
- Why is it a profit share and not a revenue share?
- How is revenue defined in the profit share?
- How are expenses defined in the profit share?
- Why is infrastructure included as an expense?
- What is the projected timeline for when this new prize money formula will be applied to 500s and 250s?
- Why are the ATP events (ATP Cup, Next Gen ATP Finals, Nitto ATP Finals) not included in the proposed profit- sharing model?

30 years is a very long time. The Plan will have a lasting and profound effect on players today and for generations to come. We need transparency and answers to important questions. Until then, the vote must be delayed.

About the Professional Tennis Players Association

###

Created by the players, for the players, the Professional Tennis Players Association (PTPA) is as an integrated association for professional tennis players. Founded by Vasek Pospisil and Novak Djokovic in 2020, the PTPA is a not-for-profit corporation based in Canada that addresses player challenges and influences fair change within the business of professional tennis. www.PTPAPlayers.com

by ponchi101 Are they even real? Really, I am lost. Is the PTPA even a legit voice for the players?

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:39 pm Are they even real? Really, I am lost. Is the PTPA even a legit voice for the players?

by JazzNU Kinda saw this coming if you've been paying attention to media coverage in Mallorca. Novak has been out there glad-handing like a politician and it's been real interesting.

I'm already seeing a glaring problem looking at this board they named. Not exactly as pure as they want you to believe.

https://twitter.com/ptpaplayers

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 0-15

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:43 pm0-15

At least 0-30, but possibly 0-40, don't you think?

50-50 profit sharing is a massive improvement that most were looking for. Love that they threw in "democratically elected by all players."

by ponchi101 I said 0-15 simply because Wertheim said "ATP returns serve".
I would say 0-1,ATP to serve.
Aaaah, we agree

by Deuce Bring back the WCT and Grand Prix circuits!

by Deuce

JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:16 pm

That photo was a Sports Illustrated cover.

The man in the suit and tie sitting on the chair by the net post is Fingers Fortescue, the world famous net cord judge. Fingers and his cohorts would sit there with two fingers delicately touching the net tape during matches and call a let whenever the serve would graze the net and land in a service box.

In an average tennis year, 4 net cord judges were killed by errant shots - all of the shots coming from players wielding the new graphite racquets of the day (standards size - 60 - 70 sq. in.). Despite the obvious dangers of the position, Fingers persevered - even after being put into a coma for 9 days after being struck in the left temple by an errant Roscoe Tanner serve.
Returning to his post after a 4 month recovery period, Fingers refused to work any matches featuring a left-handed player for the remainder of his career.

When the electronic devices to call 'net cord' lets began to populate tournaments, Fingers sued every professional tennis association he could find for 'restraint of trade'.

RIP, Bud Collins...
https://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/ar ... llins.html

.

by ponchi101 Also.
That shot was after match-point in the championship match, not during the "You cannot be serious match". McEnroe's strange gait is because he was going to fall on his knees and, he would later say, he thought at that moment "No, that's what HE (Borg) does!" so he stopped his downward movement.
He really did not want to be like Borg, as much as he respected him. But another fun part is that, in all his matches against Borg, he behaved like a Lord. He knew Borg would not be distracted or intimidated by his bullying.

by TAT2.0 PRESS RELEASE

22 June 2021

Decision in the case of Dayana Yastremska

A decision has been issued by the Independent Tribunal under the Tennis Anti-Doping Programme (the “Programme”) that Dayana Yastremska has committed an Anti-Doping Rule Violation under Article 2.1 of the 2020 Programme, without any fault or negligence on her part. No period of ineligibility was imposed.

Ms. Yastremska, a 20-year-old player from Ukraine, provided an Out-of-Competition urine sample on 24 November 2020. That sample was sent to the World Anti-Doping Agency (“WADA”) accredited laboratory in Montreal, Canada for analysis, and was found to contain a metabolite of mesterolone. Mesterolone, a non-Specified Substance, is prohibited under category S1 of the 2020 WADA Prohibited List (Anabolic Agents), and therefore is also prohibited under the Programme.

Ms. Yastremska was charged with an Anti-Doping Rule Violation under Article 2.1 of the Programme (presence of a Prohibited Substance in a Player’s Sample) on 22 December 2020 and was provisionally suspended with effect from 7 January 2021. Following a hearing, the Independent Tribunal accepted Ms. Yastremska’s account of how the mesterolone entered her system and determined that she bore No Fault or Negligence for the violation within the meaning of Programme Article 10.5. Where a finding of No Fault or Negligence is made, Programme Article 10.5 provides that any otherwise applicable period of Ineligibility shall be eliminated entirely. Therefore, Ms. Yastremska’s provisional suspension is lifted with immediate effect, and she will not serve any period of Ineligibility for her violation. For the avoidance of doubt, Ms. Yastremska is eligible to resume competition immediately.

This is Ms. Yastremska’s first Anti-Doping Rule Violation. The Independent Tribunal’s decision determines that Ms. Yastremska: (1) has committed a violation of Article 2.1 of the Programme; (2) has committed that violation with No Fault or Negligence and therefore no period of ineligibility is imposed; and (3) is eligible to compete with immediate effect. This decision is subject to appeal by WADA and NADO Ukraine to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

Note to Editors:

The Tennis Anti-Doping Programme applies to all players competing at Grand Slam tournaments and events sanctioned by the ITF, ATP and WTA. Players are tested for substances prohibited by the World Anti-Doping Agency and, upon finding that an Anti-Doping Rule Violation has been committed, sanctions are imposed under the Programme in compliance with the requirements of the World Anti-Doping Code. More information on the Programme, sanctions, statistics, and related matters can be found at itftennis.com/antidoping

by JazzNU Jon Wertheim is on Tennis Channel saying the PTPA includes women. Despite nothing in their statements saying this or their questions all being directed at ATP. What am I missing here?

by Omess

JazzNU wrote:Jon Wertheim is on Tennis Channel saying the PTPA includes women. Despite nothing in their statements saying this or their questions all being directed at ATP. What am I missing here?

I think they are clearly focus on the ATP at least for the start

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Just a random thought. Isn't it interesting that all the comments about the Draws have been for the men's draw and as I type this there have been views but no comments in the thread for the women's draw. If we're the cognoscenti of those who post on tennis fan boards I'd say the WTA has a problem. Is it the product or the marketing of said product?

by Suliso I'll probably end up watching more women. Not a Djokovic fan and nobody else really have a shot.

Then again we're hardly typical here.

by JTContinental It will be mostly WTA for me too. I have barely watched a men's tennis match since Andy Roddick retired.

by ponchi101 Right now, I believe that the two stories are set. In the ATP, the winner is "pre-ordained" (DMForever wrote wonderfully about why this is not so). In the WTA, there is no clear winner, so it is kind of so open that there are few comments.
We were talking about that BUT in the actual Wimbledon topic. I certainly will not be able to choose what I will see because I will be stuck with ESPN/Argentinean coverage, meaning they will show Podoroska and Maria Camila until they lose, maybe a little Mugu (the Venezuelan roots) and then some Serena.
But give us a couple of hours. Let's see how that poll starts picking up people. And if some of the comets fly by and leave a message.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:03 pm Just a random thought. Isn't it interesting that all the comments about the Draws have been for the men's draw and as I type this there have been views but no comments in the thread for the women's draw. If we're the cognoscenti of those who post on tennis fan boards I'd say the WTA has a problem. Is it the product or the marketing of said product?

I don't think it's that. I have much more interest in the women than the men. But there were new messages in the men, so that thread stayed on the front page of the forum and had additional comments posted. The women's fell down as many other threads got new comments, mostly not about Wimbledon. There's also the matter of quite a bit of discussion the last week or so already about the contenders on the women's draw that wasn't had about the men's, but it took place in the regular Wimbledon thread.

I don't think the WTA has a problem other than trying to get people and places to move past their sexism. That's going to take time and is obviously much broader than just tennis, but maybe one day in the not too distant future, @ponchi won't have to scrounge around the internet to watch a women's tennis match that doesn't feature a superstar or South American.

by ponchi101 scrounge

?
(That cracked me up

)

by Suliso Serena is not going to Olympics. No surprise really given her age and Slam focus. This will allow Pegula to participate if she wants to.

by JazzNU

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:51 pm Serena is not going to Olympics. No surprise really given her age and Slam focus. This will allow Pegula to participate if she wants to.

She said previously that she likely wouldn't be on the Olympic team because Olympia couldn't be there with her, that she hasn't spent more than 24 hours away from her and didn't see this as the time that would start. Slam focus and age weren't part of the conversation when she previously discussed it.

by Suliso Think she couldn't have gotten a special permission for Olympia to travel with her? I bet there were other reasons too.

by Omess

Suliso wrote:Think she couldn't have gotten a special permission for Olympia to travel with her? I bet there were other reasons too.

May be Serena is a “special case” but there is a Canadian athlete who will have to leave her 3 months old baby home if she wants to go

Breastfeeding Canadian basketball player Kim Gaucher says she cannot take baby to Olympic Games

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/06/25/spor ... index.html

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

by ti-amie

by JTContinental

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 4:06 pm Think she couldn't have gotten a special permission for Olympia to travel with her? I bet there were other reasons too.

In the interview I just read, she said wasn't going for a variety of reasons, but mainly because she doesn't want to

by ti-amie

by JazzNU

by Suliso That's a lot for a non Slam winner.

by Deuce If he's still playing in 6 or 7 years, Kyrgios will be hilarious, and lots of fun to watch during matches - all the time.
Once he matures (which, unfortunately, is not a sure thing), and gets rid of that huge chip on his shoulder (which, unfortunately, is not a sure thing), and learns more about people and about life (which, unfortunately, is not a sure thing), he'll be lots of fun.

by ponchi101 He is 26 already, and I don't think that Nike will renew that contract once it expires. There is no need to have you signed up if you do not show on court. So once the money stops coming in, Kyrgios will have to decide whether he starts playing for real, for the love of the game, or if he had had enough.
So 6-7 years is very generous of you, although you correctly added the IF. He may be out sooner than that,

by ti-amie I was wondering if Kyrgios made a mistake opting for tennis. I think he's someone who would thrive in a team sport but in a sport like tennis he can't handle it mentally.

by Deuce Well, he has long said that his first love is basketball...

Indeed, in the Laver Cup, he seemed to be a great team player.
Maybe he'll decide to just be a 'doubles specialist' - that's the closest to a team he'll get on a regular basis within tennis.

He talks about certain other players being positive influences and important assets to tennis; he says that tennis needs more personalities, etc. All of this more than suggests that he cares about tennis.
But the confusing irony is that he refuses to be a positive influence / asset to tennis himself.

by dmforever I didn't know where to put this, so I thought I'd put it here. I just wanted to say that I really like the fact that the women's and men's tours have completely different dynamics. On the women's side so many are breaking through, winning slams or getting to semis or finals, even while unseeded. It makes doing the Suicide Pool a total crapshoot, but it's really fun to see how new faces handle the pressure, and even to see their games for the first time. And on the men's side, it's much more predictable, but you have this amazing story of the three best players of all time all duking it out to see who will end up on time. I love both dynamics and think it's just a great time to be a tennis fan.

Enjoy the second week of Wimbledon everyone.

Kevin

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:11 pm I was wondering if Kyrgios made a mistake opting for tennis. I think he's someone who would thrive in a team sport but in a sport like tennis he can't handle it mentally.

He made a very good decision because it's the only one he was good enough to make it as a pro. As much as he loves basketball, there is no way he'd be playing tennis if he was good enough to make it as a pro even if it was just in Australia. Unless you count e-sports (I don't), tennis is it.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:12 pm He is 26 already, and I don't think that Nike will renew that contract once it expires. There is no need to have you signed up if you do not show on court. So once the money stops coming in, Kyrgios will have to decide whether he starts playing for real, for the love of the game, or if he had had enough.
So 6-7 years is very generous of you, although you correctly added the IF. He may be out sooner than that,

The money drying up? Hilarious. Do you know how much Nick makes in endorsements? They don't care if he's on court all the time, sometimes works for them because his brand is strong. Very, very strong. If you think he's become a pauper because he's barely played in the 18 months, definitely think again. He's been making more money recently, not less. Nike will most definitely be reupping their contract unless something monumentally changes. Nike is 100% on board with this version of Nick, he currently gets perks many other players don't get from Nike. If he leaves Nike, it'll be because someone outbid them.

by ponchi101 How much does he make in endorsements? Nike, Yonex and what else?

Ok, I looked it up. He has endorsements with Nike, Yonex and Beats. Nothing more. That does not look to me as a player that companies are beating a path to sign up. Nike may keep him as the face of Australian tennis, but that is simply because there is nobody else. The moment a new Aussie male comes up, that will be a better bet, as Nick has proven that he is a two rounds player, at the slams. And if they keep him as the face of Nike Australia, that will command the corresponding salary, at best.
Hewitt was the face of Nike for a while, in Australia, and he was let go easily, after reaching #1 and winning two slams. He started losing, and taht was that. Nick offers them nothing if he does not show up to play. And since he isn't, get ready to see him wearing his Yonex generic clothes, which was what happened to Hewitt.

by JazzNU You're not looking very hard. Kyrgios has more endorsements than that, is making more than he ever has because he finally got new management and they are hitting it out the park.

My impression from many comments on here about different players specifically and in passing as some backhanded remark about a player's form is that too many here tie brand power with winning now.

Feel free to keep believing that how people on this forum feel is how most feel about Nick. But it's just not the case. We've seen it over and over again, people on this forum largely don't understand his appeal and just do not like him. I understand his appeal, I just find him trying at times, but I do get it.

Hewitt? Ha! Again, you're missing his appeal.

I have said it before, but I think it gets ignored because so many here just don't like him. In the "what happens after the Big 3" discussion, who will be the star? I've said in the past, the ATP found their star, he just doesn't win a ton and he's always a moment away from getting fined so he's hard to rely on. But he's lapping the ATP outside of the Big 4 in terms of star power. Big time. He's the only one who can get into the Oscar parties and sit courtside at an NBA game and book a late night spot without coming off a big win at the US Open or hitting up some other connection, he can do it on his own. But I expect this to be ignored yet again.

by Suliso We here are tennis fans and we care a lot about players who win and rather little about those who can get into Oscar parties. That's just how it is.

by ponchi101 Please enlighten me about his other endorsements, because I find nothing more.
Zverev: Adidas, Head, Richard Mille and now Rolex, Peugeot, Electronic Arts and Zegna
Medvedev: Lacoste, technifibre, BMW (The M series), Bovet and Tinkoff (Russian finances)
Rublev (the least known of this group); Nike, Head, Bulgari.

And when you make a search with the words NICK KYRGIOS LATE NIGHT SPOT, I found none. Nothing.
Now, before I am labeled a Nick hater, I have written here enough times that I root for him. The man is obviously a good person, as the several instances of good deeds he has made have been documented at TAT1.0 and here. But the narrative "Bad Boy = Big Endorsement" fails the test of time. Yes, Hewitt, who was huge in Australia, lost his endorsements when he stopped winning. Rios was swept aside the moment he also stopped winning. If you want big endorsements, and be a bad boy, you better win. And Nick has been 4-2 this year, 6-3 in 2020 (yes, pandemic) and 23-15 in 2019. He simply is not out there, playing.
Now, if the ATP has decided that he will be the face of the sport once the big four are gone, so be it. It is not as if I die for the other guys to be the next Roger/Rafa/Nole. But man, that is a huge bet with Nick.

by JazzNU @suliso, but that's hardly the point I'm making, is it?

@ponchi, I must be making it all up.

by Suliso

JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:37 pm @suliso, but that's hardly the point I'm making, is it?

Sure, but I'm not saying you're wrong either, am I?

by texasniteowl Not that I usually trust the daily fail, but:

Since signing with Duguid - who manages the commercial rights for two-time women's Grand Slam winner Naomi Osaka - Kyrgios has earned more in six months than his entire career to date.

Kyrgios has signed deals with companies including PlayStation, Kia and Mexican food giant Old El Paso during that time.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -year.html

Griffith University sports marketing expert Dr Jason Doyle said Kyrgios had transformed his personal brand in 2020 despite barely being on the court.

'A lot more tennis fans understand him as a person now and have developed a liking for him,' he said.

'With sport branding - and athletes in particular - it's not down to what you do on the court as much as you do off it.

'This break in competition has given them the ability to show his personality and his charitable side and that has made his brand more valuable to sponsors.'

Kyrgios helped raise $90,000 for those affected by last year's horror bushfire season by donating $200 for every ace he scored at the 2020 Australian Open.

Duguid meanwhile, from top talent management firm IMG, said Kyrgios' social conscience and stance during the coronavirus crisis had also helped boost his appeal.

by texasniteowl A story by a Sydney sports reporter also listed uber eats and Call of Duty.

Kia, PlayStation, Uber Eats, Old El Paso and Call of Duty all came calling with endorsement deals in the last six months – a period in which he wasn’t on the court. Kyrgios has maintained a strong relationship with Nike and Yonex, too.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 571m7.html

by dmforever My two cents on Kygrios...

First, I sometimes don't realize that there are casual tennis fans. I personally know almost no one who watches tennis once in a while. They are either into it or not. I know that there are a few stars who draw non tennis fans into the sport (Serena first and foremost, then maybe Roger and Rafa, and Venus) but I guess in Australia there are more causal fans and Nick is a big deal and I can see his appeal to people who don't care so much about results or know about everything he does and says. They like him because he has a huge game, is extremely talented, has beaten the big 3 multiple times, does a lot of charity work, is very charismatic, and has a lot of likable traits that he shows to the world whenever he plays.

Personally I feel super conflicted about him. I love his game and as I said above, he has done a lot of charity work and evidently is great in a team format. However, it's really really hard for me to get past the whole Wawrinka / Vekic comment. It was just so misogynist. But people are complex. When I said I was through with him in another thread, I meant it more as a rooting fan. I'm just not going to watch his matches anymore because it's too frustrating.

It will be interesting to see how his story unfolds. It seems to me like even with playing so little, he'll have a very short career, especially by today's standards.

Kevin

by JazzNU Wild that Kuznetsova in particular after all these years isn't on this list, but also Kerber, Kvitova, and Muguruza.

by Deuce It seems that about 80% of current female players have essentially the same service motion. I'd prefer to see more uniqueness and variety, myself.

Also, there is currently an abundance of female players whose family name begins with the letter 'K' - although I don't believe this phenomenon is related to the similarities in female service motion.

by ponchi101 So indeed it seems that Nick Kyrgios will never be hurting for money. Although his agent's comments are a bit over the top (to me), his appeal seems established.
Which means that the sole motivation to really bring his level of tennis to being a Slam contender will be internal. And then I don't know if that will be good or bad.

by JazzNU

by ti-amie

by the Moz ARub's hair is decidedly loose and free flowing these days.

by JazzNU I think loose would've worked there just as well. Just saying.

by Deuce Andreescu has decided not to participate in the Olympics this year.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU I'm not watching that video, but I surely hope that's a story about how a once very popular Serbian player that was incredibly well liked slowly but surely through actions and words by himself and his family couldn't get out of their own way and turned him into much less likable player that can be seen as a villain despite many opportunities to change course with many tennis fans damn near begging him to do so.

Signed - an early Novak fan whose support slowly slipped away and was begging him to please change his ways

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:45 pm I'm not watching that video, but I surely hope that's a story about how a once very popular Serbian player that was incredibly well liked slowly but surely through actions and words by himself and his family couldn't get out of their own way and turned him into much less likable player that can be seen as a villain despite many opportunities to change course with many tennis fans damn near begging him to do so.

Signed - an early Novak fan whose support slowly slipped away and was begging him to please change his ways

Nope

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:58 pm
Nope

Not surprised. Genuinely wonder how many people even remember that he was mostly seen as funny and charismatic early on before the many mistakes, mishaps, lapses in judgement or however you'd characterize the things that occurred that made him fall out of favor with many fans.

by the Moz

JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:18 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:58 pm
Nope
Not surprised. Genuinely wonder how many people even remember that he was mostly seen as funny and charismatic early on before the many mistakes, mishaps, lapses in judgement or however you'd characterize the things that occurred that made him fall out of favor with many fans.

His player impersonations were really amusing and lighthearted

by mmmm8 That's not how I remember things, as an early Novak fan. He was never incredibly well-liked by the general tennis fandom and was especially despised by Federer fans (which at the time seemed like most tennis fans), because he frustrated Federer, because of his obnoxious parents and because he would retire frequently. His impressions, which I found lighthearted, were seen as obnoxious and self-aggrandizing.

Then he got some media training, shut up his parents, fixed his stamina, and became more statesman-like. It, along with winning, got him some more fans and shut down some of the negativity around him. He was still seen as annoying (post-march ritual) and bizarre (hyperbaric chamber, spiritual guru friend, etc. ).

Then last year, he screwed himself over and it's back to being actively disliked.

by the Moz I will say for all my dislike of much that is Nolé these days, the man does back it up with results. He's worked really hard to get here. This is sport and he's the winner right now. Good on him.

by Deuce

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:23 pm That's not how I remember things, as an early Novak fan. He was never incredibly well-liked by the general tennis fandom and was especially despised by Federer fans (which at the time seemed like most tennis fans), because he frustrated Federer, because of his obnoxious parents and because he would retire frequently. His impressions, which I found lighthearted, were seen as obnoxious and self-aggrandizing.

Then he got some media training, shut up his parents, fixed his stamina, and became more statesman-like. It, along with winning, got him some more fans and shut down some of the negativity around him. He was still seen as annoying (post-march ritual) and bizarre (hyperbaric chamber, spiritual guru friend, etc. ).

Then last year, he screwed himself over and it's back to being actively disliked.

^ That's pretty much how I remember it. I would add that in his first few years, he wasn't very well liked by other players, either - Roddick used to ridicule his lack of stamina, for one.

I don't particularly like him - I don't like his personality, or his playing style... but the degree to which he has completely turned around his stamina problems is truly admirable. He has gone from being the player with the worst stamina to being the player with the best stamina, by far. And that is quite an accomplishment.

by ponchi101

the Moz wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:19 am I will say for all my dislike of much that is Nolé these days, the man does back it up with results. He's worked really hard to get here. This is sport and he's the winner right now. Good on him.

Mats Wilander, ages ago, said this about Lendl (paraphrase): "In the past, you knew that all you needed to do with Lendl was to get to 4-4, and he would give you the set. Now, you get to 4-4 and you know there is no way you can win the set. What he did mentally was incredible".
Novak is another proof that the mental part can be improved. And yes, I don't "like" him either, but the results are impossible to refute.

by JazzNU His family wasn't exactly awful to start. They were loud and hard to take, but a microphone wasn't being put in the dad's face much back then. Back then, Sharapova and Ivanovic were sitting in his box from time to time, we saw his box and didn't hear from them a ton. But that got much worse obviously before it got to the point of him telling them to stay home at times.

The impressions were seen as very funny by plenty, I can remember the crowd at US Open loving them and wildly cheering him on. But then he couldn't read the room, kept doing them, did even more impressions and the way they were viewed quickly changed and seen as obnoxious (because they largely were - doing those once or twice is different than that becoming your regular schtick). I think not reading the room is a forever kind of a theme with Novak personally.

As for incidents that derailed him, the thing with Roddick started it to me and it sort of spiraled from there. Then he got a bit better after that, I remember him (getting some media training and a plan) using McEnroe to dampen the dislike at US Open somewhat, but never regained the same crowd support and his parents got worse and more vocal. Plenty of small things happened too, to just erode the fandom little by little. Then he yelled at a child in Miami and it's been pretty bumpy ever since with crowds I think. I can't really think of top player who has scared ball kids more than him, there might be and we just don't see them as much. But he has too many to recall. Then of course he made those lovely comments he made about women. Just so, so many things.

I think last year was certainly bad for him, but I didn't find it surprising that he was involved in those series of events at all. More like a continuation of his history.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU

by ti-amie Okay y'all are getting psychic. Didn't someone ask about her the other day?

by ponchi101 Starting with post #710 in the PLAYERS TOPIC, we had a few exchanges about her future plans.
And we were just wondering.
So now, with one former Swiss Olympic Silver medalist retiring, that should be enough for the year, right?

by ti-amie I can safely say that a "top" tennis player admitting that he is unable to think his way through a match was not on my bingo card today.

More replies

by JazzNU Since when do all pro players have coaches at their disposal?

And Stef, you out here begging to legalize your crutch?

by ponchi101 That cracked me up (Kobe).
Well, just when I thought "Give Stefanos a chance. He has a gorgeous one handed backhand (well, not terrible), he plays well, he pushed Novak to the limit at RG, give him a chance".
And then he wants his dad to sit by his side on every point. Who, please, who can I root for in this generation?

(No, I can't root for Matteo. I do that and my GF hangs a poster of him on the wall. Out of the question).

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:24 pm That cracked me up (Kobe).
Well, just when I thought "Give Stefanos a chance. He has a gorgeous one handed backhand (well, not terrible), he plays well, he pushed Novak to the limit at RG, give him a chance".
And then he wants his dad to sit by his side on every point. Who, please, who can I root for in this generation?
(No, I can't root for Matteo. I do that and my GF hangs a poster of him on the wall. Out of the question).

People complain about the Big 3 dominating men's tennis into their "dotage" but good grief who in the Next Gen (forget the ones who came up right after the Three) will be able to compare to them? If you need your hand held through every point how can you claim to be a great tennis player? Tennis is all about one individual vs another and figuring out how to neutralize your opponents game. If you can't do that should you be playing tennis, and being paid as if you're at the top of the game - at all? I agree ponchi who will we fans be able to root for?

As for Matteo...

posted by @tennishead.net

by ti-amie Quentin Moynet
@QuentinMoynet
L'échange Kyrgios-Tsitsipas sur l'idée du Grec d'autoriser le coaching entre chaque point.
Translated from French by Google
The Kyrgios-Tsitsipas exchange on the idea of the Greek to allow coaching between each point.

by ponchi101 This is the moment that, if there were a commissioner for the sport, Stefanos would be called to the office and asked: "What do you mean the majority of coaches are coaching on court?".

Well, I admit it is my peeve. If it were up to me, I would slap a "warning" if the coach as much as sneezes. But with his relationship with his dad, this is as close as a confession as you can get.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU That's just odd, honestly.

"Good news, we're bringing back our unique Australian tournament! Also, it's not in Australia..." Bring it back in 2023.

by ponchi101 I hadn't noticed that detail. Indeed, why bring it back in that form?

by ti-amie

by ti-amie There was a statement put out earlier today from the German tennis federation praising Zverev's win. It also mentioned allegations against former "girlfriends" (their word not mine) and that he is taking steps to be a better person. Of course I read it when I woke up a few hours ago and it will be almost impossible to find it now because too much time has passed on the bird app. I read it before this post was made.

by ponchi101 Judging by the way it sounds, there will be plenty of more articles to be read.

by JazzNU Why would an article force the ATP to make a policy? Is he getting charged with anything? Is there at least a civil case against him? Because Basilashvili has been criminally charged and they haven't done anything differently from what I can tell, not sure why an article would get any traction in that direction.

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:07 pm Why would an article force the ATP to make a policy? Is he getting charged with anything? Is there at least a civil case against him? Because Basilashvili has been criminally charged and they haven't done anything differently from what I can tell, not sure why an article would get any traction in that direction.

Basilashvili is facing three years in the joint but tennis is like "nothing to see here." Amazing.

I think it's been said here before. You can't compare the ATP/WTA/ITF with the NFL/MLB/NBA. I'm not sure about FIFA. The way the athletes relate to their umbrella organizations is different. The fact that the NFL has imposed C19 Guidelines that tennis hasn't even thought about doing says it all. It's up to the individual tournaments to set guidelines.

by ti-amie

TL;dr

Consensual adult sexual relations.

by ti-amie Yastremska previously denied this story when it first came out. The ex is/was a wrestler/weightlifter and the substance involved is banned in his sport as well. The boyfriend said he was paid to corroborate the story and she issued the following statement.

by ti-amie Step aside Emma Raducanu. The US tennis hype machine is going full blast for Jenson Brooksby who is having a good summer run in the US. Someone is already asking about GS prospects so I'm guessing he'll get a nice draw in New York.

by ponchi101 Who are more desperate? The USA for a male champion, or the UK for a female one?
I still say the UK has a better prospect there. But, also, there is very little tennis going on, so Brooksby's story is sort of alright.
If he gets to the 3rd round of the USO, he will deserve his own topic

(No, we won't)

by Suliso Why Brooksby anyway instead of equally young and perhaps more promising Korda or Nakashima?

by ponchi101 Brooksby is in the semis, Korda and Nakashima lost already.
Flavor of the week, sort of thing. I guess.

by Deuce This sort of thing happens too often for my liking. I believe it's the result of the players feeling very entitled and completely immune to any sort of real punishment (the players are so financially rich that any fine for them amounts to pocket change).
The behaviour I'm referring to is players absolutely ridiculing the chair umpire. Not getting angry while disputing a call - but instead trying their best to let the world know that the umpire is a moron. They know they are on a huge stage, and that their antics will be spread far and wide.
This is not right. Argue if you want - present your case in a rational, thoughtful manner - you can even yell. But maintain a decent degree of respect. To do the sort of thing that Medvedev did (see video link below), and that Kyrgios does regularly, and that I've seen others do - is just wrong. It's not 'funny', it's not 'clever' - it's just bad.

Kyrgios did it again on Monday night. Medvedev did it yesterday.

(This isn't even to mention that both Kyrgios and Medvedev have obvious problems identifying gender, with both of them addressing female umpires as 'Bro'...)

Take a look...
Medvedev Ridicules Umpire

.

by ti-amie Okay TATeurs. What say you?

by ponchi101 As a Spanish speaker... it is a bad word. It is not terrible, terrible, but it is bad. By the way, if you go to the bathroom, in Spanish, you don't say "I am going to s***". There is a verb for that.
Reminds me of another incident, also at the Canadian Open. Gaston Gaudio was having a bad day against Rusedski. Basically, he could not return his serve. So he goes over to the back of the court, flips his cap over his eyes (so he can't see where he is), reaches the back stop and says "Que dia de la re- M*****! (What a really s***** day!)
Right over the ambient microphone. Everybody on TV heard it.
Javier Frana, a compatriot of him, saved the day. He just said, after an embarrassing silence: "There are others that are worse".
BTW. In Spanish, we have the REAL ACADEMIA ESPAÑOLA DE LA LENGUA (The Royal Academy of the Language). They have a dictionary, which is the official one. M***** is listed as a profanity.
Sorry, Karen.

by ti-amie

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:36 pm Okay TATeurs. What say you?

^ That was wonderful

.

by mmmm8 Concur with ponchi about the profanity, but it was pretty hilarious...

by ponchi101

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:21 am Concur with ponchi about the profanity, but it was pretty hilarious...

Oh, it is. I was being my usual IATA and just saying that rules are rules.
But a Russian swearing in Spanish and being caught, the jokes are endless

by dmforever So I guess the lesson is to learn some swear words in a language that the chair umpire doesn't know.

Kevin

by mmmm8

dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:46 am So I guess the lesson is to learn some swear words in a language that the chair umpire doesn't know.

Kevin

I recall Rublev recently getting a warning or fine for loudly yelling a word in Russian that was not really a profanity (something equivalent to "darn"), so not sure that solves it!

by dmforever

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:01 am
dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:46 am So I guess the lesson is to learn some swear words in a language that the chair umpire doesn't know.

Kevin
I recall Rublev recently getting a warning or fine for loudly yelling a word in Russian that was not really a profanity (something equivalent to "darn"), so not sure that solves it!

I agree. There is no real way to police it totally correctly in real time. Someone could say "you're frickin' crazy" instead of we all know what and if the chair umpire were not a native English speaker, or there were crowd noise, the umpire might penalize that player. And as you say, it also depends on the fluency of the chair umpire in a variety of languages. Or what about a word that a non-native speaker doesn't know? If I say "dagnabbit" would a chair umpire know if it's swearing or not, like with your Russian example? And then what about "you suck". I know people who think that's swearing, and others who don't. There is a lot of %&%$@ gray area

Kevin

by dmforever I thought this was pretty funny.

They did too. Medvedev was too nice

Kevin

by ponchi101 Isn't that a direct offense to the umpire? He basically called her stupid.
There was no need for that (Medvedev's comment).

by dmforever

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:20 am Isn't that a direct offense to the umpire? He basically called her stupid.
There was no need for that (Medvedev's comment).

For me there is a difference between saying "That's a stupid call" and "You're stupid." But maybe that's just me.

Kevin

by ponchi101 Mostly I can handle all insults. But that one I hate the most. So, maybe it is just you, but also, maybe it is just me.

I have actually gone to blows over it.

by ponchi101 I know for sure that Tsisipas is going to the locker after every set, regardless of score or result, for a full clothing change. Other players are doing it too, mostly after the second set (if going to a third, of course).
Should the tour regulate this? Just make it five minutes in between sets, and you use them as you want? Maybe fans will like it too, as you have a bit more time to go fetch that beer.

by ti-amie

by dmforever

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:44 pm Mostly I can handle all insults. But that one I hate the most. So, maybe it is just you, but also, maybe it is just me.
I have actually gone to blows over it.

You are a native Spanish speaker, so I will defer to you, but from what I've seen, the word "stupid" is much stronger in Spanish than it is in English. It's common for native English speakers to say, "Oh, that was stupid" when they do something wrong. From what I've learned, that doesn't happen in Spanish. So that might be part of it. What do you think?

Kevin

by ponchi101 It is pretty strong in Spanish. Therefore my dislike for the word. That is true.

by Woody I'd be ok with Coco's explanation if I hadn't watched the video. Her opponent was hitting shots right to her, it takes no effort to block the ball back into play, she made a decision to hit balls out, net them, or slice lobs to frustrate her opponent. But if it's true that the opponent declined to warm up with her coach, then that sounds like gamesmanship too, so whatever.

by Deuce I don't speak Spanish, and I found Medvedev's behaviour to be immature, insulting, ridiculing, boorish, and incredibly disrespectful. One can easily dispute a call - even in anger - without ridiculing the official and painting him/her out to be a moron, which is what he did. I lost considerable respect for him because of that episode.
I'd have expected that those who call out abusive and disrespectful behaviour would object to what Medvedev did, rather than find it funny.

As I mentioned above, where I linked to the episode in question, I think players do this because they are essentially immune from punishment. They are so financially rich that a fine has no financial effect on them.
The second reason they do this is because the players have a sense of absolute entitlement. They are treated as 'gods' basically everywhere they go - including, and perhaps especially, at tournaments - and I think that some players truly feel that they are 'better' people than 'lowly' officials - and that allows them to treat officials in this disrespectful manner.

by mick1303 Medvedev certainly lack the ability to shut up, when necessary. In his defense - the call, albeit formally correct, was quite illogical.

by ponchi101

mick1303 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:48 pm Medvedev certainly lack the ability to shut up, when necessary. In his defense - the call, albeit formally correct, was quite illogical.

Serious here. Should we then give the umpires unlimited discretion on all rules? If we do that, then we would need no rules.
It reminds me of the call during the USO final between Stosur and Serena. Stosur had no chance to get to that smash, but Serena did yell way before the ball had landed. So if the umps do not enforce this rule, how fast do you think players will start abusing it? Look how they are well on their way to make the MTO's rules a total joke.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie The people vs Novak Djokovic
Not even his back story endears the tennis great to audiences
JANAN GANESH

FT articles don't allow cut and paste. They'll go after you. Interesting article especially given Mick's comments in the "Post Big 3" thread.
I had to remove the link. Wertheim's tweet is below.

by ponchi101 The link only takes you to a subscription page. Sorry, can't afford it

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:41 pm The link only takes you to a subscription page. Sorry, can't afford it

I'll try to see if I can find this elusive "share" button they say is next to the article. Or back into it somehow. Sorry. I thought it would take you to the article.

by ti-amie This might be the best way to view the article.

by ponchi101 Ok. Thanks. That must be the article that MJ was penning a response to.
If the writer was trying to make him more endearing, then, once again, it is Novak's own people that sometimes fail him. Knowing that he keeps a "gratitude journal" or that he keeps a "connection with my own soul" will endear him to the metaphysical crowd, but the rest of the article boils down to: Novak went through a really hard childhood, growing up in Belgrade during the Balkan wars, while Roger and Rafa grew up in posh Basel and Mallorca, so give Novak a break.
MJ penned a much better response than anything I could come up with.

by ponchi101 ESPN L. America was talking about Naomi's 1st press conference, which she ended up in tears.
I really do not know anything about TMZ, if it is reliable and/or fair, but it is the sole article I can find. The article claims that, as reported by Ben Rotherberg, a reporter phrased an aggressive question and that triggered Naomi's response. Unfortunately, the clip here included does not show that part of the interview.
NAOMI OSAKA TENNIS STAR BREAKS DOWN IN TEARS ... At 1st Press Conference Since French Open Drama

If she can't deal with interviews, the WTA/ITF, and the ATP (in case some of their players also can't) really have to check on this. It serves no purpose to have her leave press conferences in tears.

by MJ2004 I watched the Naomi Osaka Netflix documentary last night.

The good: A close look at a very thoughtful, introspective player. The camera had surprisingly close access to her during and outside of tournaments, and, less so, also to her family, team, and boyfriend. They even followed her in Minnesota during the riots. There were some great quotes from her along the way and her likability, drive and intelligence came through loud and clear.

The bad: It was noteworthy for what was missing - the Serena incident wasn't mentioned at all, Sascha was wiped out completely, as if he never even existed, and of course it ends before this year's incidents. Understandable why, but if you want to seem like more than a PR piece that's been approved every step of the way by your team, it's important to allow the director a little lee-way.

The final product came across a bit too polished but overall I enjoyed it. Now, come back to us in another ten years when there's a fuller story to tell.

by ti-amie Ben Rothenberg is once again at the center of controversy.

Quentin Moynet @QuentinMoynet
Interrogée, de manière "assez agressive" selon @BenRothenberg, sur le fait qu'elle est très mise en avant par les médias mais qu'elle n'aime pas leur parler, Naomi Osaka a fondu en larmes en conf de presse à Cincinnati. Elle a quitté la salle avant de revenir répondre.
Translated from French by Google
Questioned, "quite aggressively" according to @BenRothenberg, on the fact that she is very highlighted by the media but that she does not like to talk to them, Naomi Osaka burst into tears in a press conference in Cincinnati. She left the room before coming back to answer.

Ichabod Crane Redux Hedgehog @MichaelIreton
Replying to @BenRothenberg
Just saw the full exchange on @TSN_Sports, including the question. The camera stayed on Osaka, so we didn't see the reporter to read expression, body language, etc. Not great audio, but the q didn't SOUND "aggressively toned" to me. Duguid (Naomi's agent) calling him a bully seems a bit much.

Thutmose @tristanbckup Replying to @mattracquet
The problem is pervasive. Quentin Moynet deliberately twisted Novak's words to make it seem to be about Biles. His sinister article led to an avalanche of bile thrown at Djokovic for WEEKS by both tennis fans and celebrity novices.

Yet he is tweeting today about death threats.

Here is the article written by the reporter who asked the question.

And yes the Djokovic conversation started another rabbit hole.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie I watched the video. Her reaction was to the mention of Rothenberg's name. She answered the Cincinnati reporters question with no problems. SIGH.

by ponchi101 Daugherty really seems to have done nothing. To me, the article he wrote is balanced.
And when you look at the video, the question was in no way aggressive.
And I really do not follow Rotheberg, but there have been some comments here and in TAT1.0. What's the deal with him?

by MJ2004

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:38 pm And I really do not follow Rotheberg, but there have been some comments here and in TAT1.0. What's the deal with him?

Because we don't have enough heated debates on this forum? You want to go there, really?

by ponchi101

MJ2004 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:22 pm ...

Because we don't have enough heated debates on this forum? You want to go there, really?

Sorry. I really do not know much about him.

I have said so: I really should not be running this place. Really.

by mmmm8

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:27 pm I watched the video. Her reaction was to the mention of Rothenberg's name. She answered the Cincinnati reporters question with no problems. SIGH.

This could be but I'm not 100% sure. She gets agitated around that point, but I think it might be already on the way when they get to his name. She answers his question later after coming back and seems fine.

by mmmm8 About Ben Rothenberg... his first tennis credential was for TalkAboutTennis.com

by Deuce Very interesting.
Watching the entire (almost 9 minute) video of the press conference, it seems somewhat clear to me that she did not cry because of the question from the Cincinnati reporter. There certainly seemed to be no problem there, nor was the reporter's question in any way aggressive.
Her tears also seem unrelated to the mention of Ben's name, but rather her emotions just happened to spike at the specific moment that Ben's name was mentioned. As M8 said, she later answered Ben's question calmly and without issue.
I suppose only Naomi knows what triggered her emotions. And she has no obligation to tell anyone.

That said, Ben has been known to ruffle the feathers of a few players with what they have claimed to be his negative perspectives. I recall Zverev, for one, refusing to answer Ben's questions because he said something to the effect that Ben will twist it into something negative because that's what he does.
And Ben saying that the Cincinnati reporter's question to Naomi was "aggressive" was completely wrong and out of line and should never have been said.

As for Naomi... I think she simply cannot handle being famous. That's not a knock on her... if anything, it's a compliment, as fame is an artificial human creation which has inequality as its foundation ('famous people' are both portrayed and viewed as being 'better' than the average person).
Naomi is thoughtful and sensitive and emotional. And young. And she's learning that fame is not at all what it's cracked up to be. While it does afford you some definite advantages and privileges, it also cuts the other way in that it creates pressure to perform (either real or imagined), and you are more scrutinized. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

In a way, she's similar to Kyrgios - in that I am convinced that Kyrgios loves the sport of tennis (I think anyone who has seen his never ending smile and laughter on the practice court would agree). But Kyrgios hates the pro tennis environment - he reacts to the attention and pressure by rebelling aggressively (and immaturely) against the pro tennis environment, whereas Osaka, the natural introvert, reacts to the attention and pressure by retreating into her shell.

"Fame is proof that the people are gullible." - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

.

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:27 pm I watched the video. Her reaction was to the mention of Rothenberg's name. She answered the Cincinnati reporters question with no problems. SIGH.

I don't think that's fair at all - she started to tear up while the moderator was speaking but you have no way of knowing what she was reacting or what she was thinking, and assuming that you do is the problem. You're doing the same thing that you're criticizing Rothenberg for.

by ti-amie We can disagree about who or what caused the reaction but it was definitely not the local reporter. And she did come back and answer questions put to her. She didn't storm off and never come back which is the impression that was given by initial reports.

by mmmm8 I don't think Zverev is a good example of a player whose feathers Ben's ruffled (there are several), since Zverev's issue is with Ben is about Zverev's domestic violence history.

by ponchi101

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:54 pm I don't think Zverev is a good example of a player whose feathers Ben's ruffled (there are several), since Zverev's issue is with Ben is about Zverev's domestic violence history.

ah, indeed different. If Zverev's issue is that somebody is asking pertinent questions about an unsavory issue, but which the public is aware of, than Rotherberg is doing nothing more than doing his job. I think it was Megan that explained that if you were the editor of a newspaper AND your reporter would not ask such questions, you would, at the very least, had a talk with your reporter. They are not there to be enemies of the players, but they are also there to do a job.
---0---
About Naomi. I am still stuck in the piece I wrote after RG. IF going to the press conference is indeed too stressful for her, this has to be analyzed. And if she indeed can't handle this, maybe a dispensation is in order.
I know that the WTA may be hesitant of this because if she gets one, then all other players have the right for the same. But, again, having her walk out of press conferences in tears is of no use to anybody.

by Deuce

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:54 pm I don't think Zverev is a good example of a player whose feathers Ben's ruffled (there are several), since Zverev's issue is with Ben is about Zverev's domestic violence history.

^ That was simply the example that I remembered specifically seeing. I thought at the time that Zverev (whom I don't particularly like) was making a general comment about Ben's reporting over time, and that it was not specifically about the assault allegations.
And, yes, there have been other players who've had a problem with Ben related to what Zverev brought up (that Ben goes for the sensationalism too much). I get the impression that, among the majority of players, Ben is more tolerated than he is truly respected.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Ah, to be young and in love!

Good for her.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie From Wiki:

Doping agent
Sports
The regulation of modafinil as a doping agent has been controversial in the sporting world, with high-profile cases attracting press coverage since several prominent American athletes have tested positive for the substance. Some athletes who were found to have used modafinil protested that the drug was not on the prohibited list at the time of their offenses.[127] However, the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) maintains that it was related to already banned substances. The Agency added modafinil to its list of prohibited substances on August 3, 2004, ten days before the start of the 2004 Summer Olympics.

Modafinil has received some publicity in the past when several athletes (such as sprinter Kelli White in 2004, cyclist David Clinger[128] and basketball player Diana Taurasi[129] in 2010, and rower Timothy Grant in 2015[130]) were discovered allegedly using it as a performance-enhancing doping agent. (Taurasi and another player, Monique Coker, tested at the same lab, were later cleared.[131]) It is not clear how widespread this practice is. The BALCO scandal brought to light an as-yet unsubstantiated (but widely published) account of Major League Baseball's all-time leading home-run hitter Barry Bonds' supplemental chemical regimen that included modafinil in addition to anabolic steroids and human growth hormone.[132] Modafinil has been shown to prolong exercise time to exhaustion while performing at 85% of VO2max and also reduces the perception of effort required to maintain this threshold.[133] Modafinil was added to the World Anti-Doping Agency "Prohibited List" in 2004 as a prohibited stimulant (see Modafinil Legal Status).

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Talk about a dream job...

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Chipping away at the "How to like Tsisipas" approach. This new ATP fathers are really something.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:38 pm

I kind of want to apply. It doesn't specifically say it, but surely I could get my hands on the website design and overhaul the entire UI if I got this job, right?

by ti-amie If you do apply before you submit your application check what the base pay is for that position elsewhere.

by ti-amie

The second one looks like a fine and cost of damage should be assessed.

by skatingfan Definitely - the cameras are part of the equipment on the court - if you don't want to hit it than don't play so close to the wall.

by Suliso A potentially interesting challenger final in Chicago between Clara Tauson and Emma Raducanu. The former #84 and the latter #150 in the live rankings, in both cases career best. I think both could be of some importance in few years.

by ti-amie I never thought about how close the camera person has to get to the player to get that shot!

by JazzNU There was a cameraman that bit the dust earlier this season, maybe in Charleston, that helped to show how close they tended to be. But I think we don't think about it because I don't think this is the case, I think at smaller tournaments this happens more often and still not all the time. Think about larger tournaments, maybe ones you've attended, and you'll be hard pressed to think of a cameraperson up that close to a player mid-match.

by mmmm8

JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:46 am There was a cameraman that bit the dust earlier this season, maybe in Charleston, that helped to show how close they tended to be. But I think we don't think about it because I don't think this is the case, I think at smaller tournaments this happens more often and still not all the time. Think about larger tournaments, maybe ones you've attended, and you'll be hard pressed to think of a cameraperson up that close to a player mid-match.

Disagree, happens on many changeovers at slams and other larger tournaments as well, although only on larger courts. Saying this from experience being there in person. Also the flyover camera on the wire can get pretty close to the player as well, I wonder how no one's hit one with a ball yet.

by meganfernandez Geez, how about just zooming in from 10 feet away?

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:24 am I never thought about how close the camera person has to get to the player to get that shot!

by meganfernandez I was sitting pretty close to this. My friend was just thrilled that she got to see some good Medvedev aggro. Justified the cost of our tickets alone. "We saw history being made," she said.

Oh, this was funny ... a few of us decided the day before to go to semis, and spent a lot of time weighing ticket options for the day and night. We were waiting to see if Louisa Stefani won her dubs semi midday, because if so, we definitely wanted to say for the women's dubs final at night - one fo the women going is Brazilian and she was dying to see Stefani. Evidently Stefani is a huge deal in Brazil right now, as the first woman since Maria Bueno in the top 20 of either singls or dubs. If she lost, my friend wasn't sure if she was going to go at all, or if we would stay for the night session, so I was searching for 2 tickets instead of 3 to see what our options where there... went on for hours. Then the friend who was definitely going remembered that .... her brother is close friends with Torben Beltz, and maybe we should ask him for tickets first??? I was like, I'm sorry, we've known each other for a year, almost entirely through tennis, and this is just now coming out?? Yeah, the Beltz family was her brother's host family in Germany when he was an exchange student in the 1970s. My friend's uncle coached at Clemson at the time, so when Torben decided to play college tennis, the uncle was his connection. The families have stayed close - all the Beltzes came to the US for the brother's wedding. But alas, Torben ghosted and didn't come through with tickets. By then, I had fantasized about sitting in Kerber's player's box, then being invited to dinner ... I was going to be the hype girl in her entourage... we would be invited back to the finals, then maybe to New York... it was going to be amazing. But it probably would have been depressing to sit in her player's box, the way the match went.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:21 pm

The second one looks like a fine and cost of damage should be assessed.

by JazzNU

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:52 pm
Disagree, happens on many changeovers at slams and other larger tournaments as well, although only on larger courts. Saying this from experience being there in person. Also the flyover camera on the wire can get pretty close to the player as well, I wonder how no one's hit one with a ball yet.

That's not my experience in person. But I was not talking about the flyover cameras, but ones like in this shot.

by skatingfan My experience at tournaments is that it is quite normal for camera operators to be a couple feet from the player while they sit during changeovers.

by Deuce

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:52 pm Disagree, happens on many changeovers at slams and other larger tournaments as well, although only on larger courts. Saying this from experience being there in person. Also the flyover camera on the wire can get pretty close to the player as well, I wonder how no one's hit one with a ball yet.

The 'camera on a wire' (is there an official name for this thing?) is retracted to a quite high spot before play commences - so it would be pretty hard to hit it with a lob.
That said, what surprises me is that no player has taken a swing at it with their racquet while it is buzzing around them during a changeover, or during the pre-match warm-up.
Guys like Medvedev, Kyrgios, Paire, Troicki, etc. are definitely capable of blowing a fuse and doing something like that.

It might happen yet.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:30 pm I was sitting pretty close to this. My friend was just thrilled that she got to see some good Medvedev aggro. Justified the cost of our tickets alone. "We saw history being made," she said.

Oh, this was funny ... a few of us decided the day before to go to semis, and spent a lot of time weighing ticket options for the day and night. We were waiting to see if Louisa Stefani won her dubs semi midday, because if so, we definitely wanted to say for the women's dubs final at night - one fo the women going is Brazilian and she was dying to see Stefani. Evidently Stefani is a huge deal in Brazil right now, as the first woman since Maria Bueno in the top 20 of either singls or dubs. If she lost, my friend wasn't sure if she was going to go at all, or if we would stay for the night session, so I was searching for 2 tickets instead of 3 to see what our options where there... went on for hours. Then the friend who was definitely going remembered that .... her brother is close friends with Torben Beltz, and maybe we should ask him for tickets first??? I was like, I'm sorry, we've known each other for a year, almost entirely through tennis, and this is just now coming out?? Yeah, the Beltz family was her brother's host family in Germany when he was an exchange student in the 1970s. My friend's uncle coached at Clemson at the time, so when Torben decided to play college tennis, the uncle was his connection. The families have stayed close - all the Beltzes came to the US for the brother's wedding. But alas, Torben ghosted and didn't come through with tickets. By then, I had fantasized about sitting in Kerber's player's box, then being invited to dinner ... I was going to be the hype girl in her entourage... we would be invited back to the finals, then maybe to New York... it was going to be amazing. But it probably would have been depressing to sit in her player's box, the way the match went.

I've missed your stories, Megan...

Stefani and Dabrowski made two WTA 1000 Finals in a row (winning 1)... and have made the Finals of their last 4 tournaments - 3 of them together, and 1 as opponents.

by MJ2004 Oops, Sascha’s scandal and tennis’ failure to address it is currently headlining slate.com.

by mmmm8

MJ2004 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:20 pm Oops, Sascha’s scandal and tennis’ failure to address it is currently headlining slate.com.

https://slate.com/culture/2021/08/alexa ... ypova.html

What a POS.

I would say his father, too, but we don't know what Sascha told him.

by ponchi101 One technical issue that I would wonder about. In any of the American leagues, any athlete would know what jurisdiction any such issue would fall under. But the ATP is worldwide. If a player were to be involved in a case of domestic violence, wouldn't that create a problem in the sense that the location would dictate the laws under which to judge the player?
I am only talking about the difficulties of proposing an ATP policy, not that there should not be one.

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:19 pm
MJ2004 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:20 pm Oops, Sascha’s scandal and tennis’ failure to address it is currently headlining slate.com.
https://slate.com/culture/2021/08/alexa ... ypova.html

What a POS.

I would say his father, too, but we don't know what Sascha told him.

Was wondering when this would drop. Everyone on the ESPN and Tennis Channel sets are going to look severely uncomfortable for a while.

by dmforever

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:29 pm One technical issue that I would wonder about. In any of the American leagues, any athlete would know what jurisdiction any such issue would fall under. But the ATP is worldwide. If a player were to be involved in a case of domestic violence, wouldn't that create a problem in the sense that the location would dictate the laws under which to judge the player?
I am only talking about the difficulties of proposing an ATP policy, not that there should not be one.

It seems to me there are two issues. One is what happens with a criminal investigation, and that would depend on where it happened. But what the ATP does is not a criminal investigation, right? So they just have to come up with a process. I don't really understand how the ATP works. Would the players have to vote on a proposed set of guidelines?

Kevin

by ti-amie Interesting perspective here:

by JazzNU It's not much of an interesting perspective to me, more an uninformed one. How do the professional leagues have domestic violence policies? Anyone? And dismissing due process? That's cute. I hadn't realized the Chinese legal system was gaining in popularity in these parts.

Also, it is complete and utter BS to act like every league that does have a domestic violence policy would investigate this and render a punishment, especially one that people seem to want for Zverev. They would not. Basilashvili? Yes, but no, this wouldn't get the same treatment. Living in a utopian dreamworld believing that would be the case.

by ponchi101

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:34 pm It's not much of an interesting perspective to me, more an uninformed one. How do the professional leagues have domestic violence policies? Anyone? And dismissing due process? That's cute. I hadn't realized the Chinese legal system was gaining in popularity in these parts.

Also, it is complete and utter BS to act like every league that does have a domestic violence policy would investigate this and render a punishment, especially one that people seem to want for Zverev. They would not. Basilashvili? Yes, but no, this wouldn't get the same treatment. Living in a utopian dreamworld believing that would be the case.

I forget which case of domestic violence we were discussing (It was TAT1.0) but some of the points you bring up were voiced. Some TAT'ers did talk about why should sports leagues be the ones dealing with this issue, when it was a societal problem and something that law enforcement, not the leagues, should police.
Since you are talking about this. I feel that the ATP should not be the one investigating or judging Zverev. These are two German citizens, a country that is not a backwater society in which the "rule of thumb" is in the legal codes. If this assault really took place, I do not believe that this young woman is without tools to properly and formally present her case to the authorities and follow due process.

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:53 pm I forget which case of domestic violence we were discussing (It was TAT1.0) but some of the points you bring up were voiced. Some TAT'ers did talk about why should sports leagues be the ones dealing with this issue, when it was a societal problem and something that law enforcement, not the leagues, should police.
Since you are talking about this. I feel that the ATP should not be the one investigating or judging Zverev. These are two German citizens, a country that is not a backwater society in which the "rule of thumb" is in the legal codes. If this assault really took place, I do not believe that this young woman is without tools to properly and formally present her case to the authorities and follow due process.

They are not two German citizens. As the article states, she's a Russian citizen, he's a German citizen and the alleged crimes took place in locations outside those two countries. She'd probably have to press charges in the US, Switzerland, and China if she decided to pursue the matter.

The article also states that the allegations suggest he violated ATP rules as two of the locations were considered "onsite" at the tournaments.

A logical extension of your approach would be that the ATP and ITF shouldn't get involved in match-fixing either.

by ponchi101

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:42 pm ...

They are not two German citizens. As the article states, she's a Russian citizen, he's a German citizen and the alleged crimes took place in locations outside those two countries. She'd probably have to press charges in the US, Switzerland, and China if she decided to pursue the matter.

The article also states that the allegations suggest he violated ATP rules as two of the locations were considered "onsite" at the tournaments.

A logical extension of your approach would be that the ATP and ITF shouldn't get involved in match-fixing either.

Txs for the corrections.
But sorry, I don't see, in turn, your simile with match fixing. Match fixing directly involves the sport. It would mean one or more players affecting the outcome of a specific match. Domestic violence does not. You could be the ultimate monster off court, and still play tennis and it would not affect the matches.

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:18 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:42 pm ...

They are not two German citizens. As the article states, she's a Russian citizen, he's a German citizen and the alleged crimes took place in locations outside those two countries. She'd probably have to press charges in the US, Switzerland, and China if she decided to pursue the matter.

The article also states that the allegations suggest he violated ATP rules as two of the locations were considered "onsite" at the tournaments.

A logical extension of your approach would be that the ATP and ITF shouldn't get involved in match-fixing either.
Txs for the corrections.
But sorry, I don't see, in turn, your simile with match fixing. Match fixing directly involves the sport. It would mean one or more players affecting the outcome of a specific match. Domestic violence does not. You could be the ultimate monster off court, and still play tennis and it would not affect the matches.

My point is that player conduct while onsite is in the rulebook even though the criminality of it is with the authorities. Match-fixing is also a crime (in most jurisdictions, if not all).

by ponchi101 Serious question, as you know I don't work for "regular" companies. Are companies nowadays including in their contracts with employees clauses regarding domestic violence? The contracts I get only include, of course, confidentiality items and specific terms for the contracts, so I don't know if people can be terminated, contractually, due to behavior outside of company premises that does not directly affect the company's performance or profitability.
Not related to what is being discussed here, directly, but I wonder if tangentially it would be.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:35 pm Serious question, as you know I don't work for "regular" companies. Are companies nowadays including in their contracts with employees clauses regarding domestic violence? The contracts I get only include, of course, confidentiality items and specific terms for the contracts, so I don't know if people can be terminated, contractually, due to behavior outside of company premises that does not directly affect the company's performance or profitability.
Not related to what is being discussed here, directly, but I wonder if tangentially it would be.

Employers here can fire people for a host of things including detrimental conduct outside of the workplace, but that's in large part because the grand majority of US workers are at-will employees. Now, the majority of people also operate as if they have a contract and then they (expletive) around and find out they don't. That's why people have gotten fired left and right for racist and sexist rants in public and on social media. The company doesn't have to keep you.

There are some ways in which it's more difficult to fire someone that is at-will, but by and large, not that big of an issue when someone (expletive) up.

Now for the choice few that are actually under contract, there would typically be a morality clause that you could use for something like this to terminate the contract. That's not new, been around a long time, it's purposefully broad. You guys probably haven't heard it in a while, but you might remember the phrase moral turpitude being used in the past.

Don't know how any of this is handled in Germany.

FYI, Zverev is not now and never has been an employee of ATP, so moot in this context. And no charges or suits, be they criminal or civil, makes this a legal quagmire.

by mmmm8 There's also a workplace violence policy for most companies that would lead to a dismissal if violated. This extends to company offsite events.

Of course, as noted, he's not an employee of the ATP, but it can be construed he's a temporary employee of the tournament, no?

by Suliso I have a work contract (in Switzerland) like most around here do, but to be honest I don't remember all the unusual circumstances under which I could be fired quickly. It's mostly obvious stuff like stealing from the company, sexual harassment, gross breach of confidentiality etc.

by JazzNU

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:12 pm There's also a workplace violence policy for most companies that would lead to a dismissal if violated. This extends to company offsite events.

Of course, as noted, he's not an employee of the ATP, but it can be construed he's a temporary employee of the tournament, no?

Not even a little.

by ti-amie

by Suliso Sad one of the future leaders of our sport is like that. I could have been a fan...

by ponchi101 So, Zverev is guilty? No due process?
Slate is reporting her side of the story, which is their right (and hers). I don't agree that they should be sued as they are reporting, but I would like to see/hear if he indeed did this to her. And not from Slate, but from a proper legal system. And if he did, yes, the hell with him.

by Suliso Due process is for finding someone guilty in legal terms. Unlikely that will happen, but his reputation is tarnished forever. I personally see no good reason to doubt the woman.

by JazzNU He doesn't understand what a preliminary injunction is, which is fairly normal. It's not a trial on the merits, it's a one-sided look at a matter that will be brought in full at a later date, but that can cause you harm if the injunction isn't issued in the meantime. Injunction granted means the judge saw enough to agree that it would cause damage and that they think it's very likely you'll win the full trial at a later date.

I always find it real special when "journalists" expect athletes to know the law well when they themselves have displayed on multiple occasions how little they understand.

FYI, Ben took this piece to Slate because both NYT and Racquet magazine, his usual publishers, and potentially other outlets, wouldn't publish the article.

Slate doesn't appear to be taking the injunction all that seriously, the article remains up. It's an interesting approach.

by JTContinental Is this the Ben story?

He's been drawing criticism on Twitter yet again, this time for posting a link to this article along with brief mention of the topic before launching into multi-tweet essay about how hard it was for him to go back and write part 2 after the death of his father, in essence obscuring the purpose of publishing part 2 of the story in the first place.

by JazzNU

JTContinental wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:55 pm Is this the Ben story?

He's been drawing criticism on Twitter yet again, this time for posting a link to this article along with brief mention of the topic before launching into multi-tweet essay about how hard it was for him to go back and write part 2 after the death of his father, in essence obscuring the purpose of publishing part 2 of the story in the first place.

It was by far one of the strangest things I've seen from a professional writer. The replies were at first largely about how sorry they were for his loss and I had to double check if I was checking the Tweet for the wrong story. I have no idea what he was doing as a leadup to an important story. It was a Tweet thread with very little of it being about the actual story.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:23 pm No due process?

As long as it doesn't backfire on them or someone they know and love, people prefer trial by social media these days.

by JazzNU

JTContinental wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:55 pm Is this the Ben story?

He's been drawing criticism on Twitter yet again, this time for posting a link to this article along with brief mention of the topic before launching into multi-tweet essay about how hard it was for him to go back and write part 2 after the death of his father, in essence obscuring the purpose of publishing part 2 of the story in the first place.

I thought he deleted the extra posts, but they are still there. So you can read the leadup to the article in this Tweet thread if you choose.

https://twitter.com/BenRothenberg/statu ... 2259648513

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:42 pm Due process is for finding someone guilty in legal terms. Unlikely that will happen, but his reputation is tarnished forever. I personally see no good reason to doubt the woman.

I find this interesting. As you say, by now, his reputation has, at a minimum, taken a mighty blow. Any possible endorsements, for example, are in hold for a considerable time.
Another aspect is the timing. With this out there, I really don't see how he can perform at his best at the Open, a major tournament. It is a story that will be talked about, specially in the media capital of the world. And mostly it will be because, as you say, there is no reason to doubt the woman. Other than it is his word against hers.
Remember, I am not a great fan of him or his game (only his backhand). I do believe that women have to be believed. But, and I do hate to quote Ronald Reagan, "trust but verify". I am uncomfortable with the idea that it is one woman's comment, and your life is seriously affected.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:
Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:42 pm Due process is for finding someone guilty in legal terms. Unlikely that will happen, but his reputation is tarnished forever. I personally see no good reason to doubt the woman.
I find this interesting. As you say, by now, his reputation has, at a minimum, taken a mighty blow. Any possible endorsements, for example, are in hold for a considerable time.
Another aspect is the timing. With this out there, I really don't see how he can perform at his best at the Open, a major tournament. It is a story that will be talked about, specially in the media capital of the world. And mostly it will be because, as you say, there is no reason to doubt the woman. Other than it is his word against hers.
Remember, I am not a great fan of him or his game (only his backhand). I do believe that women have to be believed. But, and I do hate to quote Ronald Reagan, "trust but verify". I am uncomfortable with the idea that it is one woman's comment, and your life is seriously affected.

I wondered about the effect it will have on Sascha during the tournament, but it could be very little. He wasn’t affected with part 1, and he knew this was coming and has been in fine form lately. His team will try to isolate him from it. Would not surprise me if it has little effect.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ti-amie I was surprised that he was asked about it during his presser today. I figured someone would say to the press that the topic was off the table.

I really think he'll be fine. He has something to prove and sometimes that is all the motivation people need to excel.

The details of part 2 are disturbing and from what I've read follow classic escalation of violence towards the abuser's victim. It's interesting that he filed the suit in Germany because I don't think any of the alleged assaults happened there.

by JazzNU That's immaterial. It's a suit against Slate from what's been posted. File where he lives or file where they are based. Germany has strong defamation laws, so more than likely why they decided to file there.

by Deuce “I wanted to be public, to be honest with all of you,” Sharypova said. “Many girls in this situation are silent. They don’t speak about it because they’re afraid of comments that it’s not true and stuff like that. I just wanted to show that it’s not hard to speak about it. It already happened in real life, you already lived it. You know that you said the truth, you know that you’re not a bad person, and you didn’t deserve this.”

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:37 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:42 pm Due process is for finding someone guilty in legal terms. Unlikely that will happen, but his reputation is tarnished forever. I personally see no good reason to doubt the woman.
I find this interesting. As you say, by now, his reputation has, at a minimum, taken a mighty blow. Any possible endorsements, for example, are in hold for a considerable time.
Another aspect is the timing. With this out there, I really don't see how he can perform at his best at the Open, a major tournament. It is a story that will be talked about, specially in the media capital of the world. And mostly it will be because, as you say, there is no reason to doubt the woman. Other than it is his word against hers.
Remember, I am not a great fan of him or his game (only his backhand). I do believe that women have to be believed. But, and I do hate to quote Ronald Reagan, "trust but verify". I am uncomfortable with the idea that it is one woman's comment, and your life is seriously affected.

I don't think you do. I think you believe women should be heard, but I don't think you believe they have to be believed, based on this post alone, and also on other discussions.

And that's ok. I'm not criticizing your point of view that an accusation cannot be taken at full value unequivocally, I'm just saying that you can't make absolute statements like that if you're going to contradict them right after. It makes it look like you' actually aren't an ally to potential domestic violence victims but just covering yourself before the next statement, and I don't think that's the case.

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:23 pm So, Zverev is guilty? No due process?
Slate is reporting her side of the story, which is their right (and hers). I don't agree that they should be sued as they are reporting, but I would like to see/hear if he indeed did this to her. And not from Slate, but from a proper legal system. And if he did, yes, the hell with him.

What due process would be satisfactory here? If she doesn't press charges (which would logistically be very difficult and expensive for her, besides the emotional pain), the best we'll get is this defamation suit against Slate (which he didn't file against The Racquet for the first piece...) that will at best shed light on the quality of reporting, but more likely not give us anything.

Should everyone pretend it didn't happen because she didn't press charges?

No one (here) is saying he should be banned from tennis forever. But if no one is going to investigate and he'd not out there proving it's false, then yes, he'll suffer reputationally and not in many other ways (unless/until others come forward and do press charges). That's fine by me. My opinion would differ if she didn't show receipts and/or he handled this less sociopathically.

by skatingfan Is there any history of the ATP, or tennis in general, suspending a player for alleged behaviour outside of the tournament grounds?

by dmforever If nothing else, her coming forward has made it much harder for him to ever get away with this again. And y'all, please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most men who abuse women repeat that behavior? Assuming she is telling the truth, it seems like this experience will only embolden him since the whole world knows and nothing has happened. In fact, his camp has doubled down. And hopefully that could result in some kind of punishment.

Kevin

by dryrunguy In modern society, if you're going to accuse anyone of intimate partner violence and want to be taken seriously and be believed, you need about 20 minutes of video evidence and 10 eyewitnesses.

Of course, your abuser makes absolutely certain none of that is possible.

This is why so many women remain silent. And endure it.

by the Moz

skatingfan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:09 am Is there any history of the ATP, or tennis in general, suspending a player for alleged behaviour outside of the tournament grounds?

Ask Andre & the ATP.

by mmmm8

dryrunguy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:50 am In modern society, if you're going to accuse anyone of intimate partner violence and want to be taken seriously and be believed, you need about 20 minutes of video evidence and 10 eyewitnesses.

Of course, your abuser makes absolutely certain none of that is possible.

This is why so many women remain silent. And endure it.

And men, to be sure.

by ponchi101

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:09 am [...

I don't think you do. I think you believe women should be heard, but I don't think you believe they have to be believed, based on this post alone, and also on other discussions.

And that's ok. I'm not criticizing your point of view that an accusation cannot be taken at full value unequivocally, I'm just saying that you can't make absolute statements like that if you're going to contradict them right after. It makes it look like you' actually aren't an ally to potential domestic violence victims but just covering yourself before the next statement, and I don't think that's the case.

Fair enough. It seems that your phrasing is better than mine, and indeed, I would accept that I want them HEARD. And then I want THE LAW, not some organization, to get involved and find out what really happened, and let the punishment fit the crime. If Zverev attacked this woman, he should pay some consequences because, as stated above, my understanding is that once an abuser gets away with things like these, they are bound to keep doing them.

by skatingfan

the Moz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:53 am Ask Andre & the ATP.

So the answer is no, because Agassi wasn't suspended for the crystal meth. I was really thinking of something other than drug infractions because they are covered by the rules already, and the tours are required to enforce WADA rules. I was trying to think of a player being suspended for something like being in a bar fight, or drunk driving, or some other legal infraction that wouldn't necessarily be covered by tour rules.

by ti-amie

by dryrunguy

skatingfan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:15 pm
the Moz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:53 am Ask Andre & the ATP.
I was trying to think of a player being suspended for something like being in a bar fight, or drunk driving, or some other legal infraction that wouldn't necessarily be covered by tour rules.

There's a Bernie Tomic joke in there somewhere.

by dmforever For Serena (and johnny Mac--and yes, he has made a living off of that one line. Little did he know all those years ago...) fans...

Kevin

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:37 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:09 am [...

I don't think you do. I think you believe women should be heard, but I don't think you believe they have to be believed, based on this post alone, and also on other discussions.

And that's ok. I'm not criticizing your point of view that an accusation cannot be taken at full value unequivocally, I'm just saying that you can't make absolute statements like that if you're going to contradict them right after. It makes it look like you' actually aren't an ally to potential domestic violence victims but just covering yourself before the next statement, and I don't think that's the case.
Fair enough. It seems that your phrasing is better than mine, and indeed, I would accept that I want them HEARD. And then I want THE LAW, not some organization, to get involved and find out what really happened, and let the punishment fit the crime. If Zverev attacked this woman, he should pay some consequences because, as stated above, my understanding is that once an abuser gets away with things like these, they are bound to keep doing them.

That sounds wonderful. But it's not going to happen in this instance. So, again, what do you think is the right reaction/thing to happen that is realistic?

by ti-amie U.S. Open Begins Following World Tennis Events Marked by Suspected Match-Fixing
Both Wimbledon and the French Open were dogged by suspicious betting patterns now under investigation in Europe. Here’s how New York City’s own Grand Slam tournament is working to keep the games clean.

BY IBRAHIM NABER AUG 29, 2021, 9:48PM EDT

When the U.S. Open starts Monday in Flushing Meadows, the prospect of fame and prize money will attract some of the world’s top tennis players, with $2.5 million awaiting winners of the finals and $75,000 for those eliminated in round one.

But athletes can face another temptation in the high-stakes world of Grand Slam tennis: In the past year, both Wimbledon and the French Open were marked by suspicions of match-fixing flagged by monitors hired to insure the integrity of the sport.

Match-fixing is the deliberate manipulation of sports events, involving betting on previously agreed wins, defeats or even just individual games in a match. A boom in online sports betting is raising the potential earnings and stakes.

Two matches last month at Wimbledon 2021 — the most important tennis tournament in the world — remain under suspicion of match-fixing. Several betting providers raised the alarm about conspicuous abnormal betting patterns, as reported by the German newspaper DIE WELT.

The International Tennis Integrity Agency (ITIA), which handles match-fixing investigations on behalf of the four major tournament organizers, including the U.S. Open, confirmed the alerts and launched an ongoing investigation. Monitoring companies that oversee the global betting market confirmed the abnormal betting patterns, too.

In France, police arrested Russian player Yana Sizikova in June for a possible fixed match at the 2020 French Open, also a Grand Slam event. She was released shortly after and the investigation is ongoing.

In July, Sizikova sued for libel and slander in response to the allegations, against an “unknown person.” “Yana Sizikova intends to have her status as a victim in this case fully recognized and to ensure that those who started rumors damaging her reputation are prosecuted and convicted,” her attorney told the Associated Press.

Sizikova posted on Instagram: “This is protest not only for me specifically, but also for all athletes who have been unfairly convicted by “bloggers” on Internet and who should not be victims of the online betting industry.” Sources for news coverage, she continued, “like to embellish and add non-existent details as much as possible.”

The International Tennis Federation, the governing body of the sport, is under pressure to maintain the game’s integrity following numerous cases of suspected or confirmed match-fixing going back years.

A spokesman for the ITIA, Adrian Bassett, said that the risk of match-fixing at the U.S. Open “is low — but still present.”

The group will continue working with the betting industry “to ensure any suspicious activity is monitored.”

The U.S. Open did not respond to requests for comment.

FBI Expressed Interest

Monitoring firms are not alone in eyeing the U.S. Open for possible match-fixing. Investigators from the Federal Bureau of Investigation have also expressed interest in the tournament’s integrity, a member of European law enforcement involved in tennis corruption probes told THE CITY.

“American investigators asked me in 2019 if they should worry about manipulation at the U.S. Open,” said Eric Bisschop, Belgium’s vice federal prosecutor.

The FBI did not comment in response to a request from THE CITY.

At the time, Bisschop’s team was investigating the biggest match-fixing scandal in world tennis in recent years. An organized crime group had been bribing players since 2014 to fix matches at lower-level tournaments worldwide.

In total, prosecutors identified 137 players suspected of fixing or attempted fixing. Raids took place in the U.S. and several European countries. At least twenty people involved were arrested, with charges that included corruption, money laundering, forgery and membership of a criminal organization. Related investigations are ongoing.

French players admitted in interrogations that they had participated in the fraud out of financial pressure in a sport where costs for coaches, hotels, flights, doctors and equipment quickly add up to $100,000 a year or more.

The ITIA says it has beefed up its security measures since.

“Our education team is already present at the U.S. Open undertaking face to face sessions with players and tournament staff, setting out what to look out for and how to report suspicious activity to the ITIA”, Bassett said.

Brazen Recruitment

Match-fixing expert Stefano Berlincioni doesn’t think much of the assurances of those in charge of world tennis.

“There’s no reason for fixers to stop their activities,” said the Italian in an interview with THE CITY. “It’s one match-fixing scandal after another and the players involved are just allowed to get on with it.” For people like him who follow tennis closely, he said, it’s frustrating.

Berlincioni, who blogs about match-fixing and informs his 5,500 followers on Twitter about suspicious games, has been following tournaments at lower and highest levels for years. “There are so many professionals involved that it would simply be a disaster for ITIA to ban all players” involved, he said.

Officially, the ITIA has received 46 match alerts this year and has issued sanctions, including suspensions, to 11 players in 2021 as of July 14. This is roughly in line with the figures for the first half of 2019, when there were 54 alerts.

U.S. players are among those who have been sanctioned by the ITIA. Among them is Nikita Kryvonos, who in 2017 was banned for 10 years and fined $20,000 after being found to have breached anti-corruption rules, including match-fixing.

On a list of suspicious games from 2020 obtained by THE CITY, nine other matches from lower-tier tournaments in the U.S. are flagged as suspicious based on betting patterns.

Berlincioni said that in the case of the suspicious match at the French Open 2020, he could immediately see something amiss.

Even before French police announced the launch of an investigation, Berlincioni shared a video clip of the match on Twitter. The footage of the suspicious fifth game in set two shows Sizikova, from Russia, causing two double faults in short order. She appears to slip easily when she loses another point. Several bookmakers raised the alarm about conspicuous betting patterns.

Sizikova did not respond to a recent inquiry from THE CITY. On Instagram, she wrote a post in July complaining that athletes like her were allegedly being “unfairly convicted.” And further: “Lately, everyone thinks that anything can be done to the Russians.”

Marco Trungelliti, 29, tennis pro from Santiago del Estero in Argentina, is among the small number of players who’ve blown the whistle on match-fixing. He says he was contacted by match-fixers himself via Facebook in 2015. They initially offered him a “sponsorship,” he recounted, which after a few meetings turned out to be a paraphrase for a match-fixing offer.

When he reported the recruitment attempt to ITIA investigators, the Argentine also testified against other professionals who, to his knowledge, were manipulating the sport. Several players ultimately received suspensions and fines.

Trungelliti reports that he received hostile looks on the tennis tour after his statements. He reports a kind of omertà, a never-spoken pact: “Actually, everyone has internalized that you have to keep quiet about these things in public,” he told THE CITY.

Sports Betting Outpaces Laws

The explosion in online sports betting has raised the stakes for tennis tournaments. In many countries, anyone can create a profile online with just a few clicks and be rewarded with a whopping welcome bonus. Bets can be placed on almost any sport, from soccer, horse racing, and cricket to eSports, around the globe, around the clock, and all in the craziest combinations.

It is lucrative for criminals to cheat at the major Grand Slam tennis tournaments, as significantly higher betting stakes are possible there. Berlinconi explains that on a first round match at the U.S. Open, several tens of thousands of dollars can easily be placed on one bet across different accounts. In this way, turnovers of several hundred thousand dollars are possible with one bet on a specific game during a set.

Experts put the annual global turnover in sports betting at around $1.7 trillion — a tempting target for organized criminals to exploit.

The European police agency Europol called organized crime groups “heavily involved” in sports corruption in tennis and soccer.

Sergio D’Orsi of Europol told German newspaper WELT AM SONNTAG: “Criminal syndicates and mafia groups worldwide use match-fixing to generate and launder money. Match fixing is a very profitable “low risk, high profit” business for criminals.”

Around 65% of the global betting market allegedly takes place in Asia, the vast majority of it operating illegally, according to D’Orsi. Cryptocurrencies add to the challenge of investigating money flows.

Online sports betting is booming in the U.S., following a 2018 Supreme Court decision that struck down a federal law that had banned commercial sports betting in most states. New York took a relatively cautious path under former Gov. Andrew Cuomo, allowing sports betting only in four casinos, all outside New York City.

The state Gaming Commission is currently considering bids for two proposed licenses for online sports betting. Among the applicants are leading global online betting providers such as Hillside (bet365) and Betfair, as well as a consortium of casino operators. As reported by Bloomberg, US rapper Jay-Z has also joined the New York bidding alongside sports-merchandise company Fanatics.

Yet as online sports betting races ahead, U.S. laws have not kept up with the related risk of match-fixing, warns Brooklyn Law School professor Jodi Balsam — New York included. That could leave local prosecutors flat-footed.

“For example, the New York penal code targets only bribery in sports, that is, bribing a player or other game participant to fix a game. But the laws do not address, for example, manipulation by individual game participants acting on their own,” she said in an interview with THE CITY.

“To better crack down on match fixing, we would need to make cheating in sporting events a criminal offense in the U.S. That already exists in some European countries after a number of prosecutions failed because the laws weren’t specific enough.”

https://www.thecity.nyc/2021/8/29/22645 ... ign=buffer

by JazzNU

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:16 am
No one (here) is saying he should be banned from tennis forever. But if no one is going to investigate and he'd not out there proving it's false, then yes, he'll suffer reputationally and not in many other ways (unless/until others come forward and do press charges). That's fine by me. My opinion would differ if she didn't show receipts and/or he handled this less sociopathically.

But let's be clear about this part as well. The HERE is the most important part of that first sentence. Most sports fans that read that story want him banned based solely on that, that's no matter where you look. Maybe they aren't stressing the forever part, but they want him gone. They aren't mincing words about the final result they are looking for.

by mmmm8

JazzNU wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:08 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:16 am
No one (here) is saying he should be banned from tennis forever. But if no one is going to investigate and he'd not out there proving it's false, then yes, he'll suffer reputationally and not in many other ways (unless/until others come forward and do press charges). That's fine by me. My opinion would differ if she didn't show receipts and/or he handled this less sociopathically.
But let's be clear about this part as well. The HERE is the most important part of that first sentence. Most sports fans that read that story want him banned based solely on that, that's no matter where you look. Maybe they aren't stressing the forever part, but they want him gone. They aren't mincing words about the final result they are looking for.

I don't know where you're looking, but I don't think that's true. I'm not VERY active on a lot of tennis social media these days, but based on what I've seen most (i.e. 50%+1) sports fans (and a very big number of specifically tennis fans) actually don't care at all, aren't aware, or think it should be investigated. I've read calls for him to be suspended pending investigation but I haven't seen very many calls for him to be "gone" or "banned." Most I've read are people saying it can't be ignored and blaming the ATP/tournaments for pretending nothing's happening. But a good number are on his side as well.

by ponchi101

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:49 pm ...

That sounds wonderful. But it's not going to happen in this instance. So, again, what do you think is the right reaction/thing to happen that is realistic?

I wanted to give this part a bit more thought.

Ok. I gather I must concede your point here. It will not happen.
In my nebulous perfect world, what I would like to see would be that we would truly know what happened. Did he or didn't he assault her? If he did, I would like his sponsors to drop him and for charges to be pressed and, at a minimum, some sort of legal action to be imposed (a record of what he did). But, if he did not, I would like for her to have to admit so. One issue that I believe happens in cases like this one is that, because there is no resolution, some people then fall in the camp that the woman was doing nothing more than trying to get some money (even though Sharypova has made it clear she is not suing for anything like that). And that, I believe, hurts the credibility of any any possible other women that may go through something like this.

by JazzNU

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:14 pm
I don't know where you're looking, but I don't think that's true. I'm not VERY active on a lot of tennis social media these days, but based on what I've seen most (i.e. 50%+1) sports fans (and a very big number of specifically tennis fans) actually don't care at all, aren't aware, or think it should be investigated. I've read calls for him to be suspended pending investigation but I haven't seen very many calls for him to be "gone" or "banned." Most I've read are people saying it can't be ignored and blaming the ATP/tournaments for pretending nothing's happening. But a good number are on his side as well.

I'm active and I've seen it left and right. I'm not talking about people who either haven't read the story (which is a lot) or people that think a court is a better venue to determine what happened. Those who are fully convinced of his guilt off of reading that story, they by and large repeatedly say they want him gone.

by dryrunguy Ponchi, I'd argue that's precisely what most of us want to know--what really happened? We'll never know. There's no video, no transcript, no medical records, no admission of anything on either side. In the midst of an abusive situation, not all women have the presence of mind to make the 9-1-1 pizza order call.

But what we do know is this... In the absence of real evidence, which an abuser will always ensure doesn't exist, "A man's reputation is at stake" will always take priority over "Will someone please listen to me? Will someone please do something?"

by Suliso I think him becoming somewhat toxic to sponsors is the most one could expect. Of course he won't be banned, there is no legal reason for that.

by ti-amie So Andy Murray wasn't quite over yesterday's match.

And Stef's camp has responded to the uproar.

by ponchi101 So, according to the logic set by Stefanos' camp, IF you are losing, TAKE a bathroom break.
As close to an admission of gamesmanship as you can ask for

Novak took his break at the RG final in between the 2nd & 3rd set, right?

by ti-amie From Milos:

From Mardy Fish:

Neither man can be called a firebrand...

by ponchi101

for both.
The funny thing is: all people are asking for is to enforce the rules (NO COACHING ALLOWED) or rule on something everybody agrees is gamesmanship (the bathroom issue). On that last one:
Hey, Davis Cup had it right. Between the 3rd and 4th set you had a programmed break, precisely for these sort of things. You could coach, you could go to the potty, change your clothes, racquet, pacifier, amulet, wrap your safety blanket around you, whatever. And nobody complained because it was the rule, in writing.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:42 pm for both.
The funny thing is: all people are asking for is to enforce the rules (NO COACHING ALLOWED) or rule on something everybody agrees is gamesmanship (the bathroom issue). On that last one:
Hey, Davis Cup had it right. Between the 3rd and 4th set you had a programmed break, precisely for these sort of things. You could coach, you could go to the potty, change your clothes, racquet, pacifier, amulet, wrap your safety blanket around you, whatever. And nobody complained because it was the rule, in writing.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie There are a lot of folks in tennis for who "Doris" tweet is the end game. They think that if there's a chance of mayhem breaking out people will buy tickets.

by JazzNU I assume Tsitsipas and his team are being purposefully obtuse here, trying to deflect. Surely they've figured out that a lengthy bathroom break is only part of the issue, as ridiculous as it is to act like match after match, tournament after tournament that you are having GI issues that require more than 10 minutes every time you're down in a match. It looks like you're straight up cheating when your dad is never on his phone during your matches and then furiously texting while you're off the court with your bag for your "bathroom break." Novak is a lot of things that I'm not a fan of, but in desperate need of in-game coaching is not one of them. So don't put this on him, he's not the one who was begging for on-court coaching less than a month ago, you were.

by ti-amie In defense of Stefanos because the media sucks. I guess he doesn't realize it's fellow players criticizing him.

by mmmm8 This guy is sure going to win himself some stellar coverage by berating the media and "tennis."

by ti-amie

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:22 pm This guy is sure going to win himself some stellar coverage by berating the media and "tennis."

It shows how out of touch he is. The media has been silent. It's fellow players who are sick of the antics but I guess he didn't let that fact get in the way of his opinion.

by ti-amie Where's the Next Andy Roddick?
Americans dominated men’s tennis for decades. Then, nearly 20 years ago, we entered a drought the likes of which we’d never seen. Rosecrans Baldwin talks to more than two dozen former champions, current pros, and longtime experts to figure out what went wrong and how dudes of the stars and stripes might return to Grand Slam glory.

BY ROSECRANS BALDWIN

September 1, 2021

Where's the Next Andy Roddick

Everything was normal and nothing was weird when a spiky-haired Andy Roddick, after beating Juan Carlos Ferrero to win the U.S. Open in 2003, went on the Late Show with David Letterman to talk about how it felt to be a champion. At first, he seemed a little nervous. The tournament had just honored a retiring Pete Sampras, and Roddick was heir apparent. He mentioned his actress girlfriend Mandy Moore. He faced questions about what it felt like to be 21 and the toast of the five boroughs, if not the country, and answered with a candor that would become his hallmark. And really nothing was surprising about any of this: Another handsome young man from California, New York, or Florida (in this case, Nebraska) had won the trophy of our home Grand Slam and showed up on late night television—if anything, it felt predictable, a template that had stood for decades and might go on forever, the biggest tennis trophies hoisted by American men, only now, for the turn of the century, in a feathery fauxhawk and distressed jeans.

“You’ve got the world by the tail for heaven’s sakes!” Letterman exclaimed toward the end of the interview. Roddick answered, “I don’t know about that.” But if you watch the clip a few times, it’s evident that Roddick did know about that, very much, as he fell into line behind other champions, and so did we.

Now we know differently. The 2021 U.S. Open, which kicked off this week in New York, featured 20 Americans in the men’s singles draw. Judging by recent years, it is very unlikely that any of them will reach the final, or even the semis; our top contender, John Isner, currently ranked 22 in the world, just lost in the first round. “The short answer is, it's possible but doubtful,” four-time U.S. Open champion John McEnroe told me. “I'm hopeful, because Lord knows we need it.” That’s because for practically the sport’s entire history, besides a few Europeans and South Americans, and a couple rounds of “Aussie, Aussie, Aussie,” Americans ruled the men's Grand Slams. Whereas lately: not at all.

Pro tennis as we know it started in 1968, with the dawn of the Open Era. Americans have since claimed the most Slam titles by far, with 52. Notable names from history include Don Budge, Dick Savitt, Pancho Gonzales. Since ’68, the champion-not-sneaker Stan Smith. The champion-not-stadium Arthur Ashe. The “Lithuanian Lion” Vitas Gerulaitis, aka “Broadway Vitas,” a hard-partying heartthrob who resembled a lifeguard with a side hustle in porn. Not to forget the prodigal champion and “Brash Basher of Belleville” Jimmy Connors. Prodigal champion and “Superbrat” Johnny Mac himself. I haven’t even reached the late ’80s and the ’90s, perhaps the pinnacle of stars-and-stripes ball, with Andre Agassi, Michael Chang, Jim Courier, and Sampras competing to break records. “If you look at previous generations, there has been an American at the absolute top of the men’s game forever,” Todd Martin, the world number 4 in 1999, told me. “It just seemed sort of second nature,” said Stan Smith. If anything, by the turn of the century, the glut of male tennis superstars from the States felt like overkill, even perhaps in need of correction. “We won so many slams, so many titles,” Michael Chang said, “I don’t know if we’ll have another generation like that.”

Flashback to the aughts, Roddick country. The terrain that greeted him and his cohort—James Blake, Mardy Fish, Robby Ginepri—was mountainous. Big expectations, big rewards. The public didn’t mind if players stayed out late partying (they liked their players out partying) as long as they brought home the hardware. But Roddick’s generation also came of age during a period of significant shifts. First off, the game was changing: Training was more complex, nutrition was better appreciated. New technology, particularly the rise of polyester strings, enabled players to hit harder with more control, meaning fast balls with tons of spin that cleared the net higher and then dove down inside the lines, no matter their velocity, and bounced up like a fist flying at an opponent’s gut. Basically, tennis players were spending less time at the club, more time in the gym. “The Studio 54 days all changed with [Ivan] Lendl,” James Blake explained, referring to the Czech-American champion who went on a winning streak in part based on his fitness. “You couldn’t be out partying and still be as successful with guys who were that serious about training.”

But that’s nuance; the United States does not do nuance. We expect greatness with the same entitlement that requires stocks to rise, wars to be won, and pizzas to be delivered in 30 minutes or less. Champions should deliver not just trophies, but celebrity, which meant that a star needed to be a couple things. Sufficiently bankable, in both appeal and performance, to anchor night sessions at the Open and satisfy advertisers. Sufficiently relatable to inspire children to choose tennis over other sports. Sufficiently appealing and trendy for legions of shoppers to purchase his look. This was the machine that previous generations had constructed, and the machine wanted more. “Courier, Agassi, Sampras, Chang, those guys set the bar really high,” Robby Ginepri said. “Andy was kinda the one who carried the American flag all those years.”

Following his big win, Roddick grabbed that bar and performed chin-ups for the next decade almost single-handedly—which I guess are one-arm pull-ups, and that seems about right. He hosted Saturday Night Live and founded a charity. He married a swimsuit model and started a family. He sold a brand: signature sneaker, signature racquet, some not-inexpensive trucker hats. Most importantly, on-court, Roddick finished 2003 ranked number one in the world. He was pretty much ranked in the top 10 for the rest of the decade. He helped the U.S. win a Davis Cup, and for a period held the record for the fastest serve. But his most visible achievement was being a finalist four more times at Grand Slams—Wimbledon in 2004, 2005, 2009, and the U.S. Open in 2006—in some of the most gut-wrenching matches I’ve ever seen, and I can say that because I watched them all on TV and cried after two of them, maybe three of them, as Roddick lost.

At the age of 30, he put away his racquets. With him went our dominance, our age of empire. Though really it had been over for a decade, basically since the night that Roddick went on Letterman, faux-hawk and all, and talked tennis with a restless aura of expectation, having no idea—him or us—that we would all start wandering the desert the next day.

Spring 2021 marked the first time since the men’s tour began its ranking system in 1973 that there were no American guys ranked in the world’s top 30 players. Why this happened, according to interviews with more than two dozen current and former pros, coaches, and tennis heads, is obvious for a couple reasons and a few that are less pronounced. To understand what went wrong—and how we could find our way again—I went looking for the venue where our comeback might begin.

The United States Tennis Association (USTA) Training Center West is a 125-acre facility ringed by palm trees in Carson, California. It’s a parcel of Los Angeles where some of the next (potentially) great (hopefully) American men’s champions (but who knows) are brought to a spread-out campus to lift weights, hit forehands, and eat take-out turkey sandwiches while thumbing through Instagram on their phones. “There’s kids training there from 10-years-old to the pros,” Sam Querrey, currently ranked 78 in the world and a Wimbledon semifinalist in 2017, told me when I asked him what I should expect. From the parking lot, from all the serves being banged, it sounded like a gun range.

The USTA, tennis’s governing body in the U.S., takes its fair share of blame for America’s recent lack of male champions. People told me that, for decades, it was spoiled for talent and didn’t feel the pressure to develop players; and when it began to in earnest, it only focused its resources on a few. Recently, in addition to its center in L.A., the USTA built a $63 million training center in Florida. According to a USTA official, it administers a network of over 200 programs, mostly inner city, that combine tennis and school to put kids on a path to college. And in Carson, every court was full, watched over by hovering minders: coaches, agents, assistants, family. Several courts featured groups of teenage boys or girls working with coaches. A couple courts had kids even younger doing the same thing. Many of the players had been groomed by the USTA for years, I was told, in some cases since they were eight years old.

And then, on his own court, was Taylor Fritz. Fritz, 23, currently ranked 42 in the world, has a bio and a look to suggest a type familiar to tennis regulars: a tall, soft-spoken Southern Californian with formidable eyebrows and a big serve, dressed by Nike. All of which is to say, basically, Pete Sampras 2.0. Many consider Fritz to be The Next One, amid a generation of other Next Ones—even Sampras thinks so. “Taylor’s got a good future,’’ Sampras told the New York Post in 2016. “It’s a cycle and we’re not quite what we used to be in the ’80s and ’90s. I’ve hit with him. He’s a nice kid who is doing all the right things.”

Taylor Fritz, 23, at the Truist Atlanta Open in Georgia, July 2021. Casey Sykes / Getty Images

It’s a cycle. That is, unless the cycle stops.

Broadly speaking, tennis is major but niche, and that split in its personality shows up in a lot of places. It’s a mainstay among professional sports, but organized like a network of amateur beauty pageants. It’s a path to success for scrappy nobodies, but one that can’t seem to wash out the starch (and stink) of exclusive clubs. Tennis is one of humanity’s most global pastimes, and yet, according to the Aspen Institute’s 2020 State of Play survey, it ranks lower in youth participation (ages 6-17) than basketball, baseball, or soccer. Personally, I rarely see a tennis racquet on-screen when I watch SportsCenter, and even less often does the person holding it turn out to be a guy from here.

Partly that’s because American pro tennis is far more about goddesses than gods these days. We have so many female champions, there’s a categorizable range. The kind who’ve won steadily, if not relentlessly (Venus and Serena Williams), and the kind who win occasionally (Sloane Stephens). The kind who grew up and still live here but win championships under a different flag (Naomi Osaka). We even have recent Grand Slam winners that no one remembers (Sofia Kenin). And for the men: no kinds whatsoever.

In 2016, when he was 19 years old, Fritz was named the Association of Tennis Professionals’ (ATP) “Star of Tomorrow” for being the youngest player in the Top 100. This year, he reached the third round of the Australian Open and the fourth round at Miami. He tore a meniscus at the French Open, only to return to Wimbledon, fresh from surgery, and make the third round there, too. The morning I visited Carson, Fritz spent about two hours practicing, playing points, swinging back and forth across the baseline. Rarely did he show emotion, similar to the way most of us go about our daily jobs, putting in work—but was it a potential champion’s work? What would that even look like? On court were José Higueras and Paul Annacone, both former coaches of Sampras. Americans are “used to having the best,” Annacone told me during a break. “The United States is about being the best, being number one, and that's all well and good until you're the person that's not number one and you're trying to get there.”

Another thing that links Higueras and Annacone? They both coached Roger Federer, one of “the Big Three,” with Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal, those perennial champions of late who can’t seem to stop winning.

“There's a question that people ask,” Higueras said to me under his breath, “and it's, ‘Why are Roger and Rafa and Djokovic still winning?’ Well, it's pretty simple. They're better.”

Which brings us to the most obvious, frequently cited reason to explain why American men no longer win championships: the arrival of the Big Three, though if we’re quibbling, you can extend it to the (expletive) Four if you include the U.K.’s Andy Murray, or even the Frigging Five, with Switzerland’s Stan Wawrinka. But really it’s the Big Three who are the story, and not because they set out to prevent U.S. men from hoisting trophies. For nearly a quarter century, they’ve shut out the world.

Those four Slams lost by Andy Roddick? Were won by Roger Federer.

For people who don’t follow the sport, the Big Three’s statistics might sound hyperbolic. For people who know tennis, they’re mind-melting. The sport has four major tournaments, or Grand Slams, per calendar year. One or two members of the Big Three have reached the final in 62 of the last 65 of them; one of them took home the trophy in 56. (Europeans have won 64 of the last 65 men’s Grand Slam titles, for any Americans who need a statistic to feel worse about.) In fact, since Roddick bagged the year-end number-one ranking in 2003, either Djokovic, Federer, or Nadal has held it in 16 of the past 17 years. (Murray briefly snagged it in 2016.) “I call them gatekeepers. One of [the Big Three] is going to be the greatest of all time,” said Frances Tiafoe, 23, currently ranked 50, one of the Next Ones alongside Fritz. “When you’re competing with someone of that magnitude, you can't even begin to think of it.”

https://media.gq.com/photos/612eb5fc8b1 ... 418441.jpg
Frances Tiafoe, 23, during the 2020 U.S. Open. Matthew Stockman / Getty Images

“I grew up watching them on TV while I'm playing junior tournaments,” said Reilly Opelka, 24, another Next One, currently ranked 24. “I don’t know tennis as anything without them.”

Multiple players echoed similar sentiments, the idea that the Big Three have occupied not just the penthouse in the sport, but their top of mind. What would tennis be without them? The Big Three have been the flesh of men’s tennis’s self-image for so long—both in the sport globally and in other players’ conception of their own chances at success—they feel like permanent tenants. This year, when 25-year-old Russian Daniil Medvedev became the world number two—going by weekly rankings—he was the first guy other than Djokovic, Federer, Murray, or Nadal to reach that perch in more than fifteen years.

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To repeat: In a decade and a half, no one but the (expletive) Four was ranked second in the world for even a week. (expletive) incredible.

Of course, as the Big Three’s success grew, so did their income, during a period when the very top players took home paychecks bigger than anything tennis had ever seen. Meaning, down the road, Roger and Rafa and Novak probably won’t need to put their trophies up for auction to survive retirement, like the great Björn Borg nearly did. The point is, their prosperity has been cumulative, aided by the likes of private flights and support teams and traveling nannies. But still. Three different men. Three different styles of plays. Three different home countries, family backgrounds, national languages—and yet, from a distance, they resemble a single warlike species that arrived on Earth from a very angry planet, and they touched down at almost the exact same time. Federer the gallant. Nadal the reticent. Djokovic the ingratiator. I mean, no wonder they’re known for being polite—who wants their Martian overlords being dicks?

Which leads to the big story behind the Big Three. The real reason the U.S. men’s streak stopped? The game isn’t just ours anymore. The Big Three didn’t stomp on American men’s tennis exclusively. Australia, home to legends like Rod Laver and Ken Rosewall, hasn’t had a men’s champion since 2002. France, a tennis power, hasn’t seen a man win a Grand Slam since Yannick Noah won Roland-Garros in 1983. What's happening is the globalization of a sport. “In the locker room, you’re hearing every language,” said Nick Monroe, doubles specialist and Tennis Channel commentator. “You go to the tournaments and you don’t even recognize the flags,” Jon Wertheim, Sports Illustrated executive editor and tennis guru, told me. “That’s the number one factor, baby!” said Nick Bollettieri, former coach of Agassi and Maria Sharapova, among others. (I’d never been called “baby” so many times in my life as during our interview.) “A few years ago, baby, only three or four countries played tennis. Now it’s the whole world!”

It’s true: a recent review of the ATP’s top-ranked 50 players found them hailing from 24 different countries. In many places, tennis is one of the most popular sports after soccer. In the U.S., it competes with Big Sports’ big three—basketball, baseball, football—not to mention ice hockey and skateboarding, and soccer, too, each with an endless amount of cool pros that kids see wash through their social media feeds. Is American men’s tennis losing potentially world-class athletes to other pastimes? “It’s really hard to tell an eight-year-old kid to hit a thousand tennis balls rather than go play soccer with [his] four best buddies,” Wertheim said. And that’s assuming you can get him away from Minecraft.

But there’s yet another layer of trouble. Tennis may feel like a surplus sport here, but our country is vastly populated. “The numbers are just so much thinner than you’d expect from a country of 300-something million people,” Ben Rothenberg, host of the tennis podcast No Challenges Remaining, said. Suggesting that the compass arrow of blame can shift to other points.

First off, tennis is hard to play well. Some sports, in addition to requiring an intelligence about the game, need blessings of speed and strength (football). Others need skills acquired through infinite practice (golf). Tennis, like basketball, needs everything—skill, speed, endurance—but also requires a boxer’s mentality, to endure hardships alone, which in tennis includes a lot of losing.

But let’s say a kid enjoys the game and shows aptitude. Can their family find a place to play? Can they afford lessons? What if he or she’s not a white kid in a wealthy suburb—will they find the sport accessible? “People growing up in low-income areas, as I did,” Tiafoe said, “people there know it was that Williams sisters’ thing, and that they’re amazing—but they’re only two people. It’s a lot easier to pick up a basketball and go to a hoop. If we can make tennis that accessible, then we can compete.”

And then there’s the money. For the Big Three and their colleagues in the upper ranks, tennis is extremely lucrative, but that falls off significantly if you’re outside the top 10, not to mention if you’re not in the top 50. Compare it to basketball. According to Forbes, in 2021 LeBron James will earn $96.5 million, and Roger Federer $90 million. The parity stops there. The average salary of a player in the NBA, with a little over 500 athletes under contract, was $7.5 million in 2020-2021. The top 500 earners in pro men’s tennis for the same period, per records published by the ATP, made an average of $246,583. And that needs to pay for overhead like coaching and travel. Unlike NBA players, who operate in a union, tennis players are self-employed, responsible not only for their own success but their own infrastructure, with no salary guarantee. According to the ATP, the current 500th-ranked men’s tennis player, Shreveport’s Ryan Harrison, age 29, earned $14,814 in prize money playing singles and doubles at tournaments this year. “In tennis there’s this huge income inequality,” said Wertheim. “The top guys can end up as billionaires. The guy across the net might be stealing extra apples from the buffet. The money is really jarring.”

Here’s a question several experts brought up: Why does earning potential seem to influence the U.S. men’s game more than the women’s? Not that children pick their hobbies based on compensation, but is it because female athletes don’t have as many highly lucrative potential paths? The average salary in the WNBA for 2021 was $120,648. Based on 2020 prize money earnings published by the Women's Tennis Association (WTA), the top 500 earners in pro women’s tennis averaged $171,540. For now, women’s basketball just doesn’t have the same financial allure as the NBA. Meanwhile, Osaka set an earnings record for female athletes—earning more than $50 million off the court in 2021, according to Forbes—for the second straight year. “Some of the best young [female] American athletes are playing tennis because they’re fairly compensated—even ludicrously compensated—versus playing pro soccer or basketball,” Louisa Thomas, who covers sports for The New Yorker, explained. “For guys, they have more choices. It’s a little bit of a tired idea, but it’s not wrong.”

Then there's a lack of status. Multiple players described a weird facet of being a professional tennis player in the U.S.—a problem if only for the endurance of healthy egos—where guys can be the 250th or 400th best player in their sport worldwide, and still get knocked at home for their achievement. This is a nation that simply doesn’t appreciate what it takes to be Thai-Son Kwiatkowski from Charlotte, North Carolina (currently ranked 223), or Sekou Bangoura from Bradenton, Florida (401). Chicago’s Donald Young, ranked 386, from a career high of 38 in 2012, commented, “I remember being 40 in the world, and [a man] asked my mom, ‘What’s he ranked?’ And she’s like, ‘Oh, he’s 40.’ He’s like [dismissively], ‘Oh, that's pretty good.’”

A few other theories that may be true, but feel thin: Tennis doesn’t have any good video games. Fine, but would that get kids on the court? Americans lack a star to make the sport seem cool, the way Tiger Woods transformed golf. Okay, but does gender-fluid Gen Z really need a boy to do that, when we have Coco Gauff doing collabs? Do kids need an American to admire when Australia’s Nick Krygios still packs stadiums? (Style sidebar: Why won’t Nike sell me a Kyrgios jersey?) “The teenagers [at Carson], they’re watching Instagram and YouTube videos all day long,” Sam Querrey told me. “They’ll see Kyrgios do a tweener or some cool shot, then go out and practice it. Basketball has big dunks, football has amazing catches. Kids are asking, ‘How can I do cool things?’”

Finally, one thing that kept popping up in conversations, to explain the petering-out of American greatness, was the potential “softness” of U.S. players compared to their global counterparts or previous generations, or The Big Three. Simply, that this generation would rather play Call of Duty than hear the call to do drills. “We hear the Americans getting called soft all the time,” one USTA coach lamented out of the side of his mouth.

During my day at the Carson Training Center, I saw none of it. Everyone, all ages, was in warrior mode, pounding fuzzy balls like it was therapy-by-pugilism. I wandered away from Fritz’s practice and watched a trio of 15-year-old boys hit groundstrokes. All of them appeared to be sponsored by clothing and racquet companies. Was the tall boy a future Sampras? Was the speedy one a future Chang? They started practicing serves and one boy was moving oddly: front leg locked, weight back, arms swinging straight. I might have been watching John McEnroe at the French Open, I thought. “Unfortunately, one of the kids’ dad decided to change his serve over the weekend,” Erik Kortland, their coach, told me later. “Dad called it ‘the 1984 serve.’ Myself and the other boys were joking around with him, saying ‘You probably want to serve more like 2020 as opposed to 1984.’”

“We have the recipe, the right mix, it just hasn’t translated into a Grand Slam champion yet,” said Gavin Johnston, a member of the player development staff, as we toured the facilities. “I’m 100% sure it’s going to work out.”

I wasn’t so sure myself, but felt ungracious saying so, and left the action to find a men’s room, which is how I stumbled on a movie set—not such an odd thing in L.A., but still. A film was being shot in a clubhouse nearby. On my way past, I asked a security guard what they were filming. Wrapping up the new Will Smith movie, he said, King Richard, the biopic about Richard Williams, father of Serena and Venus. Which made me think: you could argue that the most successful man in contemporary American men’s tennis got there without playing a single point himself.

I wanted a simple theory, a single villain to blame. Somebody to condemn beyond our shores. I said as much to Martin Blackman, a former pro, currently the General Manager for Player Development at the USTA, who summed it up thus: “Four or five things happened in the late ’80s. Tennis became an Olympic sport. The wall in Berlin came down. Countries began investing in their tennis federations. College began to recede as part of the professional tennis pathway. That all happened from the mid ’80s until the end of the ’90s. And we really didn't react to it as a federation.”

Which blew my mind. Because if Blackman is right, and I believe he is, then perhaps the true villain behind the downfall of pro men’s tennis in the United States is Otto von Habsburg. Aka, the last crown prince of Austria-Hungary. Aka, former head of the House of Habsburg-Lorraine. Aka, deceased sovereign of the Order of the Golden Fleece. That piece of (expletive).

Von Habsburg was born in 1912. As a child, he was readied to be emperor of Austria and king of Hungary. In his twenties, he fled Nazism for the United States, then returned to Europe after the war and eventually became president of the International Paneuropean Union, the organization behind the Pan-European Picnic, a peace demonstration in August 1989. Von Habsburg’s idea was to open the border gate between Austria and Hungary—one of the events that led to the fall of the Berlin Wall. Soon, the Cold War was depleted. The USSR disintegrated, freedom rocked the Eastern Bloc, and over time, as Blackman noted, sporting success in Eastern Europe, Russia, and beyond, would offer not only prestige but a golden path out of difficult circumstances.

Growing up in Serbia, Novak Djokovic at one point lacked safe places to play and practiced inside an empty swimming pool, and look at him now. Money, medals, pride? Tennis. At this year’s Australian Open, Martina Navratilova noted that, by her count, 53 of the 128 men competing appeared to come from Slavic lineage.

To be a tennis fan today is to be a fan of international tennis. Since the twilight of Roddick’s career, a couple American men have carried the flag valiantly, principally Isner. But if you only cared about watching U.S. dudes, you would’ve quit being a tennis fan long ago. So, thanks a lot, Otto von Habsburg. You made global tennis possible. You made American men’s tennis impossible. We’ll give you credit for both.

Hear me, friends: All is not lost. In fact, all is looking pretty exciting. Yes, there exists in human nature a strong propensity to depreciate the advantages, and to magnify the evils, of the present times—I didn’t write that, Edward Gibbon did, in The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, but I think he was onto something. Recreational tennis in the U.S. surged during the pandemic, probably thanks to social distancing; participation increased by 22 percent. The bigger picture is also improving. The United States currently has 14 men in the top 100 pros, which is better than Spain (11), France (10), Italy (9)—it’s better than anybody.

At the same time, Rafa is losing his hair, Roger his footwork, Novak his temper. Of the three, Djokovic seems the most likely to continue the rampage—he won the first three Grand Slams of the year and is the favorite in New York—but even his heart eventually will start to grasp for other sources of affection. All of which makes for a big opportunity for younger players, as compared to the generation (or generations) before them. “I feel bad for a lot of the best players that came up in the last 10 years,” Fritz told me. “[The Big Three] are so good, and people had to play against them in their prime.” Of course, whether any Americans join the cadre who take advantage remains to be seen. “That’s what’s cool about all sports—seeing people in an uncomfortable environment,” said Tommy Paul, another Next One (currently ranked 54).

For those who care, here is one thing that everyone I spoke to agreed on: All we need is a champion, then this stupid conversation ends. At the same time, tennis needs to be more accessible, more enticing. Less directed by fusty olds and more open to experimentation: in media, in marketing, even in the game. Stop shushing people for talking during matches! Train the children on clay! Sell me a goddamn Kyrgios jersey! The men’s game needs a 21st-century Broadway Vitas to loom large in the culture, a guy who can grab a Slam trophy and host Saturday Night Live, or just a decent Instagram Live, frankly. “We need stars that can operate in the modern promotional ecosystem,” said David Shaftel, the founding editor of Racquet magazine. “It comes down to the intersection of the right player with the right attitude.”

“We could sure use a shot of adrenaline in the men's game,” said McEnroe. “We've been struggling. Europe has been dominating for years and years.”

“A lot of factors contributed to the game becoming more global and putting more pressure on American dominance,” Blackman told me. “[But] I see them as challenges, not excuses.” Greg Sharko, the ATP’s stats guru, pointed out that at the various smaller tournaments leading up to this year’s U.S. Open—Atlanta, Washington, Toronto, et al—American men reached finals in five consecutive weeks, which hadn’t happened since 2005. “We won the 2018 and 2019 World Championships, 14-and-under boys, which is exciting,” said Kent Kinnear, the Head of Men's Tennis at USTA Player Development. “We have three in the top 10 ITF juniors. We have three in the top eight for the race to Milan (the ATP's "Next Gen" Finals). So, we're excited, but it's tough. It’s incredibly competitive out there, and we need to keep doing everything we can and as strategically as we can to break through.”

At this year’s Open, who will make it out of week one? Who will make it to a quarter, a semi, and dare we ask for more? The biggest hope is probably Opelka, who was the runner-up recently in Toronto. But what about Mackenzie McDonald (ranked 61), who played in his first ATP final this summer? What about rising newbie Jenson Brooksby (ranked 99)? I’m in multiple group chats about tennis, and questions flood the brainpan. Does Fritz have what it takes to fill Sampras’s Air Oscillates? Will Tiafoe finally attain a Slam semi or more? Is perhaps Opelka, who is sponsored by an art gallery, of all things, visits museums with Venus Williams on his days off, and pals around with painter Friedrich Kunath, something more than just a seven-foot-tall servebot?

Fans who follow the men’s game have learned not to take such questions too seriously. Glory didn’t leave the U.S., it grew beyond it, and still can be claimed. Frankly, with the Big Three gradually exiting, and new players hammering at the door, the men’s game right now is thrilling to watch. And with a variety of personalities to get excited about, maybe fans will be inspired to pick up a racquet themselves. “Tell people, get your ass out and play, baby!” Bollettieri shouted at the end of our interview. “It’s all about playing the game.”

https://www.gq.com/story/wheres-the-next-andy-roddick

by dryrunguy Once I got past the title of that piece, which took several minutes because I couldn't quite understand why we weren't setting our sights a little higher than Andy Roddick, especially the on-court persona that was an embarrassment late in his career, there's a lot of good stuff there. And several of the theories have been raised here before.

by Suliso Andy Roddick is a 4-5 Slam player in a normal era. Like the one we're starting now.

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:43 pm Andy Roddick is a 4-5 Slam player in a normal era. Like the one we're starting now.

Totally. In fact, he should be a two slam player, if only for one incredible high backhand volley that he missed.

I also think that tennis is no longer a sport for a majority of kids. There is no appreciation score nor any way you can hide when you get beat. The score is too clear. You cannot lose a match and have your friends tell you "the judges robbed you".

by Suliso Neither can you in swimming or golf.

by meganfernandez My god, has any non-tennis publication given so many words to tennis as this GQ piece in like the last 15 years? Insanely long.

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:13 pm Neither can you in swimming or golf.

Oh, there are plenty. But, for example, in golf you did not get beat by a fellow player; you play against the course.
In swimming, in sprinting, in plenty of sports, the clock tells you where you stood, but you seldom, if ever, race against ONE other person. You get 1 winner, 7 losers, who can have each other to talk with.
In our sport, you lose and you lose alone. It is a particularly lonesome activity, unless you play doubles all the time.

by ti-amie

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:18 pm My god, has any non-tennis publication given so many words to tennis as this GQ piece in like the last 15 years? Insanely long.

And no way to really tl;dr the article either. It's about time someone did an article like this on US men's tennis. He looked at everything that's been said about men's tennis failings. Let's see if someone picks up on some of his points and digs deeper.

by ti-amie Pottygate rages on.

Stef has his defenders.

by ponchi101 And, of course, Mr Ramamurthy keeping it classy. Murray specifically said that was not the reason he lost. And the moment you insult the other player, sort of like, you lost.

by ti-amie From the horses's mouth:

by mmmm8 In the end, I agree with Tsitsipas. I dont like the fact that he does it and it's not going to win him fans, but can't fault him for doing it f he's within the rules. The rules need to change.

(Obviously, texting during that break is against the rules).

by ponchi101 Indeed. The point now is: will the organizations review the ENTIRE rules book? It is not just the bathroom breaks. The MTO's are out of control too. And, as I said already, it is not the public or an outside entity complaining. It is players complaining about other players. That should count for something.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:43 pm Indeed. The point now is: will the organizations review the ENTIRE rules book? It is not just the bathroom breaks. The MTO's are out of control too. And, as I said already, it is not the public or an outside entity complaining. It is players complaining about other players. That should count for something.

This is what the player's council is for.

by ti-amie

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:05 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:43 pm Indeed. The point now is: will the organizations review the ENTIRE rules book? It is not just the bathroom breaks. The MTO's are out of control too. And, as I said already, it is not the public or an outside entity complaining. It is players complaining about other players. That should count for something.

This is what the player's council is for.

I don't quite understand what the Player's Council can do in this situation short of getting Stef in a locked room and jacking him up? As long as there is no set in stone rule that limits bathroom breaks why would he stop? He's escalated from problems with shoes to taking his phone with him on a potty break.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Mr. Petchey's reply is the most incredible non-sequitur I have read in a long time.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:27 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:05 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:43 pm Indeed. The point now is: will the organizations review the ENTIRE rules book? It is not just the bathroom breaks. The MTO's are out of control too. And, as I said already, it is not the public or an outside entity complaining. It is players complaining about other players. That should count for something.

This is what the player's council is for.
I don't quite understand what the Player's Council can do in this situation short of getting Stef in a locked room and jacking him up? As long as there is no set in stone rule that limits bathroom breaks why would he stop? He's escalated from problems with shoes to taking his phone with him on a potty break.

They can advocate. They can assess what players want, and if need be, initiate talks with ATP and Grand Slams to clarify or change this rule. And they might be able to address an ongoing issue with a specific player, discreetly. That seems appropriate to me.

by dmforever I honestly don't think there will be a pro tennis tour as we know it in 20 or 30 years because there won't be a world as we know it in that time frame either. They will definitely have to reschedule tournaments to times of the year when there might be a better chance of having them without climate related problems. More/all tournaments will probably have to be indoors. And how possible will it be to fly year-round, or fly much, or fly at all, in 30 years? Just sayin'...

Kevin

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:29 pm I honestly don't think there will be a pro tennis tour as we know it in 20 or 30 years because there won't be a world as we know it in that time frame either. They will definitely have to reschedule tournaments to times of the year when there might be a better chance of having them without climate related problems. More/all tournaments will probably have to be indoors. And how possible will it be to fly year-round, or fly much, or fly at all, in 30 years? Just sayin'...

Kevin

CC is a problem, but we are very good at solving problems. I know that at times it looks like there is no hope, but technically, it can be solved. Certainly the most complicated problem we will have to solve as a species so far, but it can be done.
So if there will be no tennis tour in 30 years it will be for other problems, not CC.
I think (most likely will not be around in 30 years to see who of us is right)

by Suliso I think the future will be exciting for at least some of us. Maybe we indeed colonize Mars?

by ponchi101 You are younger than I am, and certainly more optimistic. The only way I get to Mars is if they need biological ballast in the rocket.
When I say "WE" above, I mean mankind. But in the process of correcting CC there will be lots of people, and maybe even a couple of countries, that will be left not only behind, but out. Venezuela is one of them, as we have nothing more than oil. We won't even be able to compete in an international market for marihuana since we are right next to Colombia and if it becomes a tradeable commodity, our smuggling abilities will be useless (it will be legal to export, after all).
Russia and Nigeria will also be out of the process. The gulf states have enough money stashed away if they want to do something, but that is not sure.
It will be exciting for the countries that are already technological. For the rest of us, I believe that Steven Pinker Jr will have a lot of work and writing to do, to explain how his dad missed these fine points.

by Suliso Don't count out Russia - they'll be a major agricultural region in the future. Of course some countries will sink, that's true.

by dmforever

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:39 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:29 pm I honestly don't think there will be a pro tennis tour as we know it in 20 or 30 years because there won't be a world as we know it in that time frame either. They will definitely have to reschedule tournaments to times of the year when there might be a better chance of having them without climate related problems. More/all tournaments will probably have to be indoors. And how possible will it be to fly year-round, or fly much, or fly at all, in 30 years? Just sayin'...

Kevin
CC is a problem, but we are very good at solving problems. I know that at times it looks like there is no hope, but technically, it can be solved. Certainly the most complicated problem we will have to solve as a species so far, but it can be done.
So if there will be no tennis tour in 30 years it will be for other problems, not CC.
I think (most likely will not be around in 30 years to see who of us is right)

I don't share your optimism, but I sincerely hope you are right.

And most likely I won't be here either 30 years from now, so as you say, we'll never know.

Kevin

by ti-amie

by the Moz

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:38 pm In the end, I agree with Tsitsipas. I dont like the fact that he does it and it's not going to win him fans, but can't fault him for doing it f he's within the rules. The rules need to change.

(Obviously, texting during that break is against the rules).

Agreed!

What is the amount of time allowed in the rule? Or is it a 'grey' area?

by ponchi101 The rule says nothing about time. It says "reasonable".

by the Moz

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:17 am The rule says nothing about time. It says "reasonable".

Hopefully that gets changed soon. The break should be five minutes.

Players have always called out medial timeouts they find dubious. They should do the same for toilet breaks, regardless of whether there is a rule.

by the Moz A sort of court of law vs. court of public opinion approach.

by the Moz

by Deuce I don't see how they can list a specific amount of time for a bathroom break - simply because not all bathrooms, toilets, etc. are located the same distance from the court. This is likely the reason that no set time limit currently exists, and that the time frame is listed only as "reasonable" - meaning a reasonable amount of time relative to the proximity of the toilet to the court.

One of my linesmen friends told me that when a player takes a bathroom break, he/she MUST use the toilet. If the player doesn't use the toilet to do '#1' or '#2', it is a code violation. This is one reason that an official (usually a linesperson when they are being used) goes to the toilet with the player (but doesn't go into the stall with them!). Therefore, a bathroom break is to use the toilet. You can also change clothes or whatever, but peeing or crapping must be done.
I don't know if different tournaments have different rules about this - but I would doubt it.
I remember one time a few years ago at a tournament, I walked into a common men's bathroom, and 10 seconds later, Nicolas Kiefer came running in from one of the courts he was playing on.

Maybe simply having the players wear diapers is the solution...

by the Moz Good point on the proximity comment Deuce

Does that mean changeovers have a set time, but the 'reasonable' time span between sets is really determined by when both players decide to come back to court from a toilet break?

by Deuce The problem with the word 'reasonable' is that it is entirely relative to and dependent upon what each individual views as reasonable.
Tsitsipas and his father might think that 10 minutes is reasonable. Murray might think that 4 minutes is reasonable. The chair umpire might think that 8 minutes is reasonable. The tournament referee might think that 6 minutes is reasonable... etc....

The only way I can see them placing any sort of set time on it would be to measure the distance between the court and the nearest toilet, and place a time value on every 20 feet or so - as in 'you're permitted 10 seconds for every 20 feet of distance'. Then add a designated amount of time for the period the player is physically in the bathroom...

by Woody I wonder if it wouldn't be better to have planned breaks instead. Like, a 10 minute break after the second and fourth sets. If both players agree to resume faster, then they can. That way, no gamesmanship, everyone knows what to expect, you can hit with a partner if you want.

by dmforever

Woody wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:08 pm I wonder if it wouldn't be better to have planned breaks instead. Like, a 10 minute break after the second and fourth sets. If both players agree to resume faster, then they can. That way, no gamesmanship, everyone knows what to expect, you can hit with a partner if you want.

The ATP and WTA should hire you.

That's a brilliant idea.

Kevin

by meganfernandez

dmforever wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:27 pm
Woody wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:08 pm I wonder if it wouldn't be better to have planned breaks instead. Like, a 10 minute break after the second and fourth sets. If both players agree to resume faster, then they can. That way, no gamesmanship, everyone knows what to expect, you can hit with a partner if you want.
The ATP and WTA should hire you. That's a brilliant idea.

Kevin

I've thought about the planned break, not only for the players but for fans, too. Gives them more time to leave and return without missing most of a set. They'll still miss some action, but not as much.

Most sports have regular breaks, so it makes sense in that regard. But I can't quite let go of the attrition part of tennis. I know you said the players could agree to resume faster, but the player with momentum will be screwed in many cases, and regardless, it's a moot point because of TV. They need to know how long breaks are. They would not like this as a strong possibility in every match.

This is really up to the players and tournaments to sort this out based on what they need and makes sense. It's a fun topic for fans and media to debate, I guess. Whenever it's Andy mouthing off, at least. If it had been Dan Evans or Pablo Cuevas, no one would have cared. Such a week-one story.

by ponchi101 Just to remind: Davis Cup matches had a 10 minute break built in after the third set. Everybody was happy about that.

by the Moz Woody's idea deserves the Nobel Peace Prize for tennis

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:13 pm Just to remind: Davis Cup matches had a 10 minute break built in after the third set. Everybody was happy about that.

Did or still do? It wasn't optional, though, right?

by ponchi101 DC now is best of three. I don't know if they have the break after the second set, as I really no longer follow that competition.

by Deuce I think Davis Cup had a built-in break just to clean the debris off the court that the fans would throw onto it.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:54 pm I think Davis Cup had a built-in break just to clean the debris off the court that the fans would throw onto it.

And so fans could tune up their vuvuzelas.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez A 500 event this time. Nice. All of these have been at Kamau's tennis center. But no player list for a tournament that starts in 2.5 weeks? Is that normal?

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:28 pm

by Omess It probably means she will also get a Indian Wells WC….

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by Deuce .

This is puzzling - and stupid. And possibly disturbing.

If there are any tennis officials in the U.S. who honestly do not know the meaning of 'Vamos' (or 'Bamos'), they should resign immediately.

Why is Speaking Spanish Out of Bounds in U.S. Youth Tennis?

.

by ti-amie The article is from 2016. I would hope that this nonsense has stopped. US juniors are a very diverse bunch now.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:47 pm The article is from 2016. I would hope that this nonsense has stopped. US juniors are a very diverse bunch now.

Yes, it's from 2016 - but that was not exactly the 'dark ages' of tennis. It's not like it was written in 1976.
I doubt much has changed since the article was written.

by ti-amie

Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:32 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:47 pm The article is from 2016. I would hope that this nonsense has stopped. US juniors are a very diverse bunch now.
Yes, it's from 2016 - but that was not exactly the 'dark ages' of tennis. It's not like it was written in 1976.
I doubt much has changed since the article was written.

Oh I agree! It wasn't that long ago. and I remember some in the US being upset about Errani and others shouting "vamos". Plus ça change...

by meganfernandez

Omess wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:38 am It probably means she will also get a Indian Wells WC….

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yes exactly.

by nelslus

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:23 pm A 500 event this time. Nice. All of these have been at Kamau's tennis center. But no player list for a tournament that starts in 2.5 weeks? Is that normal?

The only way I initially found out about these recent Chicago tournaments was me, of all places, going on the WTA site to look at some tournament draws. At which point I saw Chicago WTA tournaments listed....which made me go, WTF, really?!?! I had to do some sleuthing and phone calls to finally get us some tickets for the first two of three events.

The outdoor courts are beautiful and all. And, they had a WTT event a couple of years ago, so John and I can confirm that the indoor facility is terrific. HOWEVER.....in many ways, the first two events were handled in a pretty rinky-dink way. The listed "food court" was ridiculous. "Opened" up at 2:00 p.m. or so, and all they had were hot dogs and bratwurst. And potato chips and I think popcorn. They didn't even have flippin' diet cokes!! You could get booze there, but since we don't drink alcohol....the folks were mostly nice, except for one snot-bag "official" II'd guess she was representing the WTA vs. the tournament itself?) who sidled up to John and me to huffily tell us at one point that we'd have to go and sit in the stands instead of the walkway, where you could have seen 2 matches at once. They also have a "main court"- three matches at the same time at most. At least for the first two tournaments, the stands would not allow for a lot of customers to enjoy the tennis. Crazy-bad job of advertising this event and social media posts. AND, the site I had bookmarked for the previous 2 recent Chicago tournaments didn't allow one to purchase tickets! THANKS MUCH to ti-amie, as your post let me go where I could actually buy tickets. LOL, of course we are still going to go- I got us SF and F tickets, and I'm at least also going to go that Friday. Five tickets for a total of $403.72. NOT cheap, but, hey, I love women's tennis. Best believe we're still going to bring food and water with us!!

by meganfernandez

nelslus wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:17 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:23 pm A 500 event this time. Nice. All of these have been at Kamau's tennis center. But no player list for a tournament that starts in 2.5 weeks? Is that normal?
The only way I initially found out about these recent Chicago tournaments was me, of all places, going on the WTA site to look at some tournament draws. At which point I saw Chicago WTA tournaments listed....which made me go, WTF, really?!?! I had to do some sleuthing and phone calls to finally get us some tickets for the first two of three events.

The outdoor courts are beautiful and all. And, they had a WTT event a couple of years ago, so John and I can confirm that the indoor facility is terrific. HOWEVER.....in many ways, the first two events were handled in a pretty rinky-dink way. The listed "food court" was ridiculous. "Opened" up at 2:00 p.m. or so, and all they had were hot dogs and bratwurst. And potato chips and I think popcorn. They didn't even have flippin' diet cokes!! You could get booze there, but since we don't drink alcohol....the folks were mostly nice, except for one snot-bag "official" II'd guess she was representing the WTA vs. the tournament itself?) who sidled up to John and me to huffily tell us at one point that we'd have to go and sit in the stands instead of the walkway, where you could have seen 2 matches at once. They also have a "main court"- three matches at the same time at most. At least for the first two tournaments, the stands would not allow for a lot of customers to enjoy the tennis. Crazy-bad job of advertising this event and social media posts. AND, the site I had bookmarked for the previous 2 recent Chicago tournaments didn't allow one to purchase tickets! THANKS MUCH to ti-amie, as your post let me go where I could actually buy tickets. LOL, of course we are still going to go- I got us SF and F tickets, and I'm at least also going to go that Friday. Five tickets for a total of $403.72. NOT cheap, but, hey, I love women's tennis. Best believe we're still going to bring food and water with us!!

Thanks for this report. Were many people there?

I thought the same about the publicity. Even once you found out about it, the info online was so hard to come by. The mission to help Black and other minority kids is nice, an extension of the XL Center's programming. My friend criticized some Black WTA players for not playing either of the earlier tournaments for that reason. I think that's extreme. I'd like to come up but we'll see. It will be interesting to see which international players stick around after New York to play this and Indian Wells. There's no player list yet on the WTA site - is this normal? Don't players already know if they're in or not? The WTA hasn't posted a player list for Ostava that week, either.

by Jeff from TX Joel Drucker remembers his brother

This could have gone elsewhere, but a truly moving story about tennis, sibling rivalry and love, and mental illness.

by meganfernandez

Jeff from TX wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:07 am Joel Drucker remembers his brother

This could have gone elsewhere, but a truly moving story about tennis, sibling rivalry and love, and mental illness.

Really beautiful. Felt the pain. Joel and i watched a match together two years ago on the Grandstand. We were the only people in the media box and he was kind enough to let me pick his brain. I didn't know who he was until we had talked for awhile. Then I kind of gasped and felt so silly. Thanks for posting this.

by skatingfan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:58 pm There's no player list yet on the WTA site - is this normal? Don't players already know if they're in or not? The WTA hasn't posted a player list for Ostava that week, either.

I think Ti could tell you better than anyone that this is standard practice for the WTA.

by ti-amie What I love most about the WTA is that there is an OoP posted for Portoroz but a draw? Why would they do something like that? It's so frustrating. And the site that used to post the draws is so full of bugs my browser won't link to it (Chrome).

by ti-amie I didn't realize that the status of the YEC was still in play. Apparently there's a decision coming in a few days. Who knows maybe it'll be in Chicago!

/s

Seriously London or Prague would be my choice but it's the WTA. They signed a 10 year contract to stay in Asia.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:42 am I didn't realize that the status of the YEC was still in play. Apparently there's a decision coming in a few days. Who knows maybe it'll be in Chicago!

/s

Seriously London or Prague would be my choice but it's the WTA. They signed a 10 year contract to stay in Asia.

If it is, we'll never know.

by Suliso Before this tournament Coco Gauff was by far the most promising and marketable teenager on tour. Now she has been overtaken by two others at once. Funny how things turn out sometimes... Of course it needn't be permanent, but now the bar is very high (GS title).

by ponchi101 Remember how promising Brady looked after the Aussie final? Now, she is again as obscure as before that, with those points to defend come February.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:Remember how promising Brady looked after the Aussie final? Now, she is again as obscure as before that, with those points to defend come February.

Maybe dropping the coach wasn’t smart.

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by mick1303 Sometimes you stumble on quite the piece of data )))

by Suliso Regarding who'll come back to US for IW a good indication is who has signed up for WTA Chicago. The following top players are missing: Barty, Osaka, Krejcikova, Swiatek, Halep, Kerber and Fernandez.

For men is harder to say because San Diego is a smaller tournament and injured players aside everyone is automatically signed up for IW, even Djokovic who has already said he won't play. We'll just have to wait for withdrawals...

by Deuce I'm quite sure that, after the 2 weeks she just had, Leylah will rest, then play Indian Wells.
In 2020, right before the pandemic began, Leylah was quite happy that Indian Wells gave her a WildCard. She was doing well at the time, and the WildCard looked like it would help continue her momentum. Unfortunately, Indian Wells was the first tournament cancelled. Then many other tournaments were cancelled. It could not have happened at a worse time for Leylah - and I wondered if she'd be able to get back to the level she was playing at when the virus stopped everything.

Since the return to play, she's been up and down - with the past 2 weeks obviously being the peak.
I don't think there's any way she'll miss Indian Wells this year.

by Omess

Suliso wrote:Regarding who'll come back to US for IW a good indication is who has signed up for WTA Chicago. The following top players are missing: Barty, Osaka, Krejcikova, Swiatek, Halep, Kerber and Fernandez.

For men is harder to say because San Diego is a smaller tournament and injured players aside everyone is automatically signed up for IW, even Djokovic who has already said he won't play. We'll just have to wait for withdrawals...

Sabalenka and Gauff also entered but withdrew https://www.dartsrankings.com/tennis/women/chicago-500 but I doubt Gauff will miss it

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by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote:Regarding who'll come back to US for IW a good indication is who has signed up for WTA Chicago. The following top players are missing: Barty, Osaka, Krejcikova, Swiatek, Halep, Kerber and Fernandez.

For men is harder to say because San Diego is a smaller tournament and injured players aside everyone is automatically signed up for IW, even Djokovic who has already said he won't play. We'll just have to wait for withdrawals...

Muguruza is in San Diego, presumably waiting for IW. Guessing she won’t play Chicago but who knows.

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by Suliso I hope there is a solid field, but I think with no year end championships (?) the WTA season at least is effectively over. Of course many players need points and money, those will play.

by Omess WTA final will be held in Guadalajara Mexico week of Nov 8

https://www.wtatennis.com/news/2252442/ ... ara-mexico

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by meganfernandez

Omess wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:42 pm WTA final will be held in Guadalajara Mexico week of Nov 8

https://www.wtatennis.com/news/2252442/ ... ara-mexico

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

que sorprendo

by ponchi101

mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:16 am Sometimes you stumble on quite the piece of data )))

No doubt he is an attacking serve and volley player...

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:00 pm
Omess wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:42 pm WTA final will be held in Guadalajara Mexico week of Nov 8

https://www.wtatennis.com/news/2252442/ ... ara-mexico

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
que sorpriendo

What?

(If you, by any chance, have a spanish speaking person near to you, he could help

)

by mick1303 I'm wondering why Carillo kept insisting that the woman next to Medvedev's coach is Daniil's psychologist? Medvedev was asked who is she and what kind of association he has with her. His reply was that I don't have any association with her, she is with my coach. And again stressed WITH, meaning that they are a couple. If in the past she was employed as a psychologist by Daniil, it is clearly no longer a case.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:02 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:00 pm
Omess wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:42 pm WTA final will be held in Guadalajara Mexico week of Nov 8

https://www.wtatennis.com/news/2252442/ ... ara-mexico

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
que sorpriendo
What?
(If you, by any chance, have a spanish speaking person near to you, he could help )

haha! I try! Corrected to "que sorprendo" - is that right?

by ponchi101 Nope

. QUE SORPRESA (if you want to say WHAT A SURPRISE). Or ME SORPRENDE, if it is I AM SURPRISED.
You should date a Spanish speaking person, I am telling you

Fastest way to learn a language (they call it "a blanket with ears" here in Colombia).

by mick1303 I found an analyst on Youtube - Gill Gross. I'm very impressed - the guy is articulate without unnecessary dramatics, extremely knowledgeable, watches the matches with an attention of a hawk, finding tiniest but important details - and overall this is IMO as close to ideal tennis observer as could be. Check him out.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:34 pm Nope . QUE SORPRESA (if you want to say WHAT A SURPRISE). Or ME SORPRENDE, if it is I AM SURPRISED.
You should date a Spanish speaking person, I am telling you Fastest way to learn a language (they call it "a blanket with ears" here in Colombia).

That was the idea, my friend. I was supposed to be fluent by now. You know my husband is Mexican, right? We have been married 18 years. We actually met in a Spanish class - an informal one with friends, where I was the only one even trying to learn anything. When we started dating, I bought a book of Spanish idioms and tried some out. Turns out, they aren't very accurate, at least not in Mexican Spanish. i thought i was saying, "Don't start what you can't finish," but it was more like, "Leave on a horse and return on a donkey."

by ponchi101 I know your husband is Mexican; you have mentioned it. That was the reason I was joking about finding a "spanish speaking boyfriend". You sort of already have one, for life

Our idioms are like in English. The ones that work in Mexico will not work in Venezuela, and may be offensive somewhere else. And vice versa. You know, cookies in the USA, biscuits in England.
You still have time. Simple trick: tell your husband to talk to you in Spanish. EVERY TIME. You can answer back in English, but that way you get the hang of hearing the language. Of course, he has to slow down at the beginning, but that should be no problem.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:13 pm You still have time. Simple trick: tell your husband to talk to you in Spanish. EVERY TIME. You can answer back in English, but that way you get the hang of hearing the language. Of course, he has to slow down at the beginning, but that should be no problem.

We've tried this and always give up pretty fast.

I need to take an extended trip to Mexico and stay with his family. One of these days.

by mick1303 It seems that media got a hunch from tennis powers to promote Berrettini, because of his looks and possible profitability for the tour. It kind of reminds of infamous attempts to promote "Big 4" with Murray. Berrettini does not have results yet to be mentioned along with Medvedev, Zverev, Tsitsipas.

by ponchi101 Medvedev just separated from the pack, a little bit, because he won a slam. That is the sole difference.
Berrettinni has one slam final appearance, as many as the other two. So, if you "need" a big four, indeed you have to include him there (even if he is the Ringo of the group) because nobody, of the new litter, has that sort of credential.
Until Thiem comes back and gets back in the conversation. But he is the sort of "in between" guy.

by ponchi101 According to several reports, the USO WOMEN'S final had much better rating than the men's.
Let me see. A final between two unseeded, relatively obscure teenagers draws more audience than a final between the # 1 and #2 players, one of them always in the GOAT conversation and going for a calendar year Grand Slam.
Uhm
(I know. The men's final was going against first week of the NFL, but still. This does not happen all the time).

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:18 pm According to several reports, the USO WOMEN'S final had much better rating than the men's.
Let me see. A final between two unseeded, relatively obscure teenagers draws more audience than a final between the # 1 and #2 players, one of them always in the GOAT conversation and going for a calendar year Grand Slam.
Uhm
(I know. The men's final was going against first week of the NFL, but still. This does not happen all the time).

US or global audience?

by mick1303

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:12 pm Medvedev just separated from the pack, a little bit, because he won a slam. That is the sole difference.
Berrettinni has one slam final appearance, as many as the other two. So, if you "need" a big four, indeed you have to include him there (even if he is the Ringo of the group) because nobody, of the new litter, has that sort of credential.
Until Thiem comes back and gets back in the conversation. But he is the sort of "in between" guy.

I beg to differ. It is far from "the sole difference". Each of Zverev, Medvedev and Tsitsipas has masters titles and YEC to his credit. In case of Zverev and Medvedev - multiple masters. This is significant. Especialy YEC title.

by ponchi101 Who would you include in a new big four, taking Berrettinni out? Shapo, Felix, Sinner? Somebody else?
The sole difference I was mentioning was between Medvedev and Zverev/Tsisipas. As you say, those three have MS1000 titles, but Daniil now has one slam, and two other finals. He is a little bit "better".

by ponchi101

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:11 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:18 pm According to several reports, the USO WOMEN'S final had much better rating than the men's.
Let me see. A final between two unseeded, relatively obscure teenagers draws more audience than a final between the # 1 and #2 players, one of them always in the GOAT conversation and going for a calendar year Grand Slam.
Uhm
(I know. The men's final was going against first week of the NFL, but still. This does not happen all the time).
US or global audience?

I think US.
In England and Canada, it must have been the same but for good reasons.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:18 pm According to several reports, the USO WOMEN'S final had much better rating than the men's.
Let me see. A final between two unseeded, relatively obscure teenagers draws more audience than a final between the # 1 and #2 players, one of them always in the GOAT conversation and going for a calendar year Grand Slam.
Uhm
(I know. The men's final was going against first week of the NFL, but still. This does not happen all the time).

by mick1303

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:18 pm Who would you include in a new big four, taking Berrettinni out? Shapo, Felix, Sinner? Somebody else?
The sole difference I was mentioning was between Medvedev and Zverev/Tsisipas. As you say, those three have MS1000 titles, but Daniil now has one slam, and two other finals. He is a little bit "better".

If you insist that we shall have "big four" no matter what )) Then yes - out of active players - Berrettini. But if we believe that Thiem will return in full force - then of course he is the guy. But my point was in the new "big four" Berrettini would be quite a distant 4th from the other 3.

For instance take career win percentage:
M - 68.23
Z - 67.99
T - 66.91
B - 64.12

You can see that the differences between the first three are much smaller than their distance from Berrettini.

by Suliso None of them are big just yet. Just a single Slam is nowhere near enough.

by Fastbackss

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:18 pm According to several reports, the USO WOMEN'S final had much better rating than the men's.
Let me see. A final between two unseeded, relatively obscure teenagers draws more audience than a final between the # 1 and #2 players, one of them always in the GOAT conversation and going for a calendar year Grand Slam.
Uhm
(I know. The men's final was going against first week of the NFL, but still. This does not happen all the time).

According to Ben Rothenberg the women's final has outdrawn the men's (in USA) for 5 of the last 7 years.
they have also outdrawn in the semi's, every year 2015-2020, despite those always being against the season opening NFL game.

by Suliso It just might have something to do with the weak state of US men's tennis...

by JazzNU

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:32 pm According to Ben Rothenberg the women's final has outdrawn the men's (in USA) for 5 of the last 7 years.
they have also outdrawn in the semi's, every year 2015-2020, despite those always being against the season opening NFL game.

by JazzNU ^^^ FYI, this doesn't even take into account college football, which is a huge draw on Saturdays against the women's final. College football is the unofficial second most popular sport league in the US.

No idea why people keep trying to pretend women's tennis isn't a draw outside of sexist viewpoints.

by ponchi101

mick1303 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:14 pm ...

If you insist that we shall have "big four" no matter what )) Then yes - out of active players - Berrettini. But if we believe that Thiem will return in full force - then of course he is the guy. But my point was in the new "big four" Berrettini would be quite a distant 4th from the other 3.

For instance take career win percentage:
M - 68.23
Z - 67.99
T - 66.91
B - 64.12

You can see that the differences between the first three are much smaller than their distance from Berrettini.

Nobody is insisting. I said "If you "need"", with my initial need being in quotes. The media narrative would like a "Big 4", but that is simply marketing.
Right now, it is as Suliso says. They are the "Best Three" (if you exclude Novak) currently playing, and nothing more. They are nowhere near THE BIG ANYTHING, specially after what the real Big Three have done for almost two decades.

by ti-amie

by mick1303

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:09 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:14 pm ...

If you insist that we shall have "big four" no matter what )) Then yes - out of active players - Berrettini. But if we believe that Thiem will return in full force - then of course he is the guy. But my point was in the new "big four" Berrettini would be quite a distant 4th from the other 3.

For instance take career win percentage:
M - 68.23
Z - 67.99
T - 66.91
B - 64.12

You can see that the differences between the first three are much smaller than their distance from Berrettini.
Nobody is insisting. I said "If you "need"", with my initial need being in quotes. The media narrative would like a "Big 4", but that is simply marketing.
Right now, it is as Suliso says. They are the "Best Three" (if you exclude Novak) currently playing, and nothing more. They are nowhere near THE BIG ANYTHING, specially after what the real Big Three have done for almost two decades.

Comparing to 20-20-20 every accomplishment will look insignificant for a while. Like from the pow of the elephant there is not much difference between the lady-bag and the tarantula. But if you compare those two on their own - indeed there is a difference.

by ti-amie One way of saying that Bencic withdrew from her match...

by 3mlm

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:08 pm One way of saying that Bencic withdrew from her match...

Just wishful thinking. Bencic serving at 4-1.

by ponchi101 Worthy of our GREAT TENNIS JOURNALISM topic

by ptmcmahon I thought it was because I did predictions for only about the fourth time this year and took Bencic!

by JTContinental Looks like the ATP is about to crack down on bathroom breaks, and I imagine the WTA will also soon impose new rules

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... atp-source

by meganfernandez

JTContinental wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:40 pm Looks like the ATP is about to crack down on bathroom breaks, and I imagine the WTA will also soon impose new rules

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... atp-source

Congratulations, Andy Murray.

by meganfernandez I played a Jan 6 insurrectionist in a league match last night. It came to light after I (barely) lost. Had I known, I would have tried harder. He and his mom are currently being prosecuted - double fault!

by Suliso I know there are some "doomsayers" here and elsewhere, but I believe the future of WTA is very bright. Lots of strong young players coming up right now and almost all of them likeable too. I'm sure there will be a few who'll fade, but even then there should still be many Slam winners and exciting tennis between them.

ATP is a bit more concerning to me. Not so much because the big three almost gone, but because the follow up generation is not particularly likeable on personal level. Maybe the next next generation (Alcaraz. FAA, Sinner etc) will be better in this regard.

by ti-amie Google translation from the French.

More big ATP tournaments and more money from 2023

The ATP board approved for 2023 the first measures of a strategic plan aimed at guaranteeing increases in prize money, a more transparent sharing of winnings between tournaments and players and a predominant place for the Masters 1000, the majority of which are will take place over 11-12 days.
F. Ra
updated September 18, 2021 at 8:05 am

In a document that L'Équipe had the opportunity to consult, Andrea Gaudenzi, the boss of ATP, confirmed that certain points of the strategic plan, on which the organization has been working for 18 months, have been adopted by the board. . And which are supposed to be applied from 2023. This concerns in particular an agreement on a new formula for sharing profits between tournaments and players, higher levels of prize money guaranteed in the long term, and the increase in the number of tournaments. ATP Masters 1000 called to become 12 day events.

“This represents significant progress for our sport and the way our players and tournament members operate under the equal partnership of the ATP Tour,” said Gaudenzi. It is only through this spirit of partnership, transparency and alignment of interests that we can truly maximize our potential and focus on the competition we face in the larger sports and entertainment landscape. "

These measures come at a time when we can witness increasingly strong disputes on the legitimacy of the mode of governance while growing claims of many players considering themselves financially wronged by the tournaments. Created under the leadership of Novak Djokovic and Vasek Pospisil, the PTPA (Professional Tennis Player Association) is the symbol of this internal rebellion.

The main measures to remember
- In the Masters 1000 category, the prize money should increase globally from 62.5 million dollars (53.2M euros) in 2021 to 76.4 million dollars (65M euros, + 22%) during year 1 of the plan, with annual increases of 2.5% to follow.

- The end-of-year bonus in Masters 1000 will go from 11.5M dollars (9.8M euros) to 15.5M dollars (13.2M euros) to reach 18.4M dollars (15, 6M euros) in 2030. And will be shared between thirty players (currently 12).

- More transparency with independent audited financial data for the Masters 1000 which offers full transparency to players over a period of 31 years.

- Concerning the calendar: increase in the number of Masters 1000 tournaments called to become 11-12 day events, with five more on an already existing format in Indian Wells and Miami (twenty additional days of playing time in this category and " 305 additional job opportunities per year for players in singles, doubles and qualifying tournaments in these expanded tables , ”it said). 10 Masters 1000 (instead of 9 currently) and 16 ATP 500 (instead of 13) are now planned .

published on September 17, 2021 at 11:33 a.m.
updated September 18, 2021 at 8:05 am

https://www.lequipe.fr/Tennis/Actualite ... 23/1286137

by ti-amie Many fans are already voicing concern about ATP 250's and Challengers in the above scenario. My first thought is that this will help the Stef's, Zverev's and others who have trouble with the Bo5 format to gain points. I have to think about it some more.

Also the WTA moves in lockstep with the ATP and that is a whole other can of worms.

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:23 pm I know there are some "doomsayers" here and elsewhere, but I believe the future of WTA is very bright. Lots of strong young players coming up right now and almost all of them likeable too. I'm sure there will be a few who'll fade, but even then there should still be many Slam winners and exciting tennis between them.

ATP is a bit more concerning to me. Not so much because the big three almost gone, but because the follow up generation is not particularly likeable on personal level. Maybe the next next generation (Alcaraz. FAA, Sinner etc) will be better in this regard.

Of the top 20 players in the WTA, the only one that I sort of not like is Kenin, and that is simply because of her dad's coaching, and she beat Mugu at a Slam final, so that last part is on me, not her.
Out of the top 20, plenty of players to like: Emma, Leylah, Alona, Sloane, Mady, etc.
If only one player comes along with a nice one handed BH, I am going to go so full into the WTA.

by JazzNU

Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:23 pm I know there are some "doomsayers" here and elsewhere, but I believe the future of WTA is very bright. Lots of strong young players coming up right now and almost all of them likeable too. I'm sure there will be a few who'll fade, but even then there should still be many Slam winners and exciting tennis between them.

ATP is a bit more concerning to me. Not so much because the big three almost gone, but because the follow up generation is not particularly likeable on personal level. Maybe the next next generation (Alcaraz. FAA, Sinner etc) will be better in this regard.

Yes, I'm much more encouraged by the under 22 contingent than the group that aged out of the Next Gen group in the last few years. Some that you didn't mention are my favorites and some that I'm just learning about more recently are proving to have a lot of potential. Fingers crossed that it pans out.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:35 pm Many fans are already voicing concern about ATP 250's and Challengers in the above scenario. My first thought is that this will help the Stef's, Zverev's and others who have trouble with the Bo5 format to gain points. I have to think about it some more.

Also the WTA moves in lockstep with the ATP and that is a whole other can of worms.

Not sure I fully understand the translation. My first thought on what I think it says is not necessarily concerning. But I think some of the wording may mean I'm missing some of the bigger changes people are concerned about.

WTA not necessarily in lockstep on this. For reasons unknown, WTA highlights their 125s and the ATP does not, seemingly thinking there's more value in them, so unless there's a planned change on that front, and especially since sponsors differs, I wouldn't think this will necessarily be something the WTA copies.

by JazzNU Also, I've noticed barely a word mentioned about no ATP tournaments this week, nothing above a 250 this month and only Laver Cup serving as more of an attraction for top players til Indian Wells. If that had been the WTA, doom and gloom about mismanagement would've been all over Tennis Twitter this week.

by Suliso I've talked about Clara Tauson in the tournament thread, but here I'd like to note that she's not the only game in town in Denmark. Holger Rune (18) grew up in Copenhagen suburbs just like him, they won together Danish under 12 mixed doubles championship, both won junior GS's (AO for her, RG for him) and both were junior #1's. It takes a bit longer to rise in ATP rankings, but he has also done really well on challenger circuit this year improving his ranking from #473 to #136 and the year is not over yet.

In the late 1990's one could have justifiably concluded that this is the peak of Swiss tennis and it won't be any better for decades to come and then came this Roger guy and said "hold my beer". I wonder if similarly Wozniacki will not be the peak of contemporary Danish tennis.

by mmmm8

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:43 am I played a Jan 6 insurrectionist in a league match last night. It came to light after I (barely) lost. Had I known, I would have tried harder. He and his mom are currently being prosecuted - double fault!

You didn't lose! It was a rigged match! You will be reinstated as the rightful winner any day now!

by ti-amie

Click on link to tweet to see the full statement from Gaudenzi.

These changes appear to correspond with 'Phase I' of the Strategic Plan, which was distributed to players in a summary totaling 92 pages in 2020. It includes turning Rome, Madrid, Canada, Cincinnati and Shanghai to 12-day Masters similar to Miami and Indian Wells, and adding 250 events during the second week of these Masters tournaments. Those 250 events could get a subsidy from the ATP Tour, provided by extra fees paid by the Masters tournaments.

Prize-money increases would be set at 2.5 percent of a base level, plus a bonus pool with a 50 percent share of the collective profit of the Masters events. The complex arrangement includes an independent audit of tournament figures provided to the ATP Tour.

The plan also calls for changes to ATP Media, the broadcast arm of the ATP, which is currently owned jointly by the Tour and each of the Masters events. Under the plan, it appears eventually all tournament would pool their rights and get a share in ATP Media. The Tour will, in addition, create another independent entity called 'Tennis Data Innovations,' which will centralize data rights.

According to Gaudenzi, who was appointed as CEO in 2020, these changes will significantly increase the amount the ATP Tour currently gets for broadcast and data rights.

The second phase calls for more integration with the WTA Tour and Grand Slam events. As Gaudenzi has acknowledged, movement on these plans have been delayed due to the disruption of the coronavirus pandemic.

An initial vote by the ATP Board was planned before the start of Wimbledon, but postponed amid request for more details by the Professional Tennis Players Association, or PTPA, a player group with which No.1 Novak Djokovic is involved. The PTPA has not yet publicly reacted to the ATP's approvals.

The ATP Board consists of the Chairman, three tournament representatives and three player representatives.

https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/at ... rize-money

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:18 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:43 am I played a Jan 6 insurrectionist in a league match last night. It came to light after I (barely) lost. Had I known, I would have tried harder. He and his mom are currently being prosecuted - double fault!
You didn't lose! It was a rigged match! You will be reinstated as the rightful winner any day now!

Oh, for a time machine!

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 Totally random.. my opinionated rating of women tennis players as of now..
A + Serena, Venus (semi-retired, for me)
A: Osaka (multiple champion, certain to win many more)
A -: Halep, Muguruza, Kerber, Barty, Kvitova, Azarenka, Andreescu, Swiatek, Raducanu (multiple champions, or champion, likely to win more)
B +: Svitolina, Sakkari, Bencic, Sabalenka, Krejcikova, Kenin (may win one, or has already won one, unlikely to repeat)
B Mertens, Pliskova, Brady, Cornet(very good players, unlikely to ever win a major)

what do you think?

by mmmm8 How did Cornet get on that list? Never made it past 4th Round at a major or won a WTA1000. Would put Stephens and maybe Pavlyuchenkova in that last category over Cornet and Brady.

(You're also missing ostapenko)

by 3mlm

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:45 pm How did Cornet get on that list? Never made it past 4th Round at a major or won a WTA1000. Would put Stephens and maybe Pavlyuchenkova in that last category over Cornet and Brady.

(You're also missing ostapenko)

Stephens and Ostapenko should both be in the B+ list and agree that Pavlyuchenkova, and perhaps Fernandez or Tauson, in the last category over Cornet and Brady.

by ponchi101 Osaka's issues are not trivial. Without them, she would win a few more slams; she is too young and too talented not to. But she has to get her peace of mind back. A player that says that when she wins she feels "relief" is mentally nowhere near the place where she can win slams.
Mugu and Kvitova. Maybe, at best, one more. They simply are being overtaken by the younger ones.
Halep, Kerber and Azarenka: Don't see them winning again. Could be wrong, and very wrong, but they have made very little noise lately (Kerber a bit).
Swiatek, Raducanu. Way too young not to win again. Raducanu specially. We talked about it after the USO. No teenager winner has been blanked for the rest of her career. Bianca: if she can stay healthy, sure. But that is a big if.
Sabalenka is too young and has too much power not to win one. If she doesn't, I will be surprised.
Your B group. Hard to disagree.

by Suliso From the group of older players I think Muguruza has the best shot to win again simply because she's the youngest of them. One could of course cite Serena or Roger, but it's still true that vast majority of players fade at age 30-32. Garbine is the only one not there yet.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:38 pm From the group of older players I think Muguruza has the best shot to win again simply because she's the youngest of them. One could of course cite Serena or Roger, but it's still true that vast majority of players fade at age 30-32. Garbine is the only one not there yet.

I thought Kerber had a good chance at Wimbledon this year. You just never know when someone's trajectory will take a turn, based on their coaching situation, motivation level, injuries, some luck... so many factors. But if I had to bet, I'd say Kvitova, Muguruza, and Kerber will not win another Slam.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87

3mlm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:30 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:45 pm How did Cornet get on that list? Never made it past 4th Round at a major or won a WTA1000. Would put Stephens and maybe Pavlyuchenkova in that last category over Cornet and Brady.

(You're also missing ostapenko)
Stephens and Ostapenko should both be in the B+ list and agree that Pavlyuchenkova, and perhaps Fernandez or Tauson, in the last category over Cornet and Brady.

yes, I have missed several people, Pavlyuchenkova, Sloane, Madison, Fernandez .. thanks for the comments, agree with them

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Her mobility was never in doubt, after that USO run

. Still, I need to find some steps like that. Looks like a pretty good exercise.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:48 pm Her mobility was never in doubt, after that USO run . Still, I need to find some steps like that. Looks like a pretty good exercise.

The work on the balance thingies is harder though.

by ashkor87

3mlm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:30 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:45 pm How did Cornet get on that list? Never made it past 4th Round at a major or won a WTA1000. Would put Stephens and maybe Pavlyuchenkova in that last category over Cornet and Brady.

(You're also missing ostapenko)
Stephens and Ostapenko should both be in the B+ list and agree that Pavlyuchenkova, and perhaps Fernandez or Tauson, in the last category over Cornet and Brady.

good point about Cornet.. but she has beaten Serena three times! I dont know anyone else who has, other than Venus...I agree with the rest of your observations, of course, so easy to forget someone..!

by ponchi101 Your post got me thinking. Indeed, how many people have beaten Serena three times that are NOT slam winners?

by ptmcmahon Some other examples - all former top ten players (Elena being almost .500 was surprising to me):

Jankovic 4-10
Petrova 3-7
Dementieva 5-7
Schynder 4-8
Testud 3-5

So I *think* Cornet may be the person with the lowest career high who's beaten Serena three times... maybe...

by ti-amie

by ti-amie
Translated from German by Google
"I was absolutely loyal to Dominic for six years - and then he doesn't even have the courage to tell me that we're no longer working together."

prnstnr
@prnstnr
Replying to
@ZahrerLukas
Ich bin ja immer sehr vorsichtig, Aussagen einer Einzelperson 1:1 für bare Münze zu nehmen.

Aber irgendwie gefallen mir diese ganzen Vorgänge nicht, die im Team Thiem in den letzten Monaten passieren.

Bin schon sehr gespannt, wie es bei DT laufen wird, sobald er fit ist.
Translated from German by Google
I am always very cautious about taking statements from an individual 1: 1 at face value.

But somehow I don't like all of the processes that have happened in Team Thiem over the past few months.

I'm really excited to see how things will go at DT as soon as he's fit.

Retikulum
@Retikulum18
Replying to
@ZahrerLukas
Stell dir vor du bist Thiems Freundin und hast auf einmal einen Anruf von Blanco am Smartphone.Grimacing face
Translated from German by Google
Imagine you are Thiem's girlfriend and suddenly you have a call from Blanco on your smartphone.

by ti-amie She should've been fined for this at the very least. Nobody told her to dump a real coach for a pretty boy.

by ti-amie This person proposed lineups for a WTA version of the Laver Cup.

Only hardcore tennis fans will know the proposed players on Team Europe.

As for the players proposed for Team World Brady? Kenin? Andeeescu who is probably placing frantic calls to Darren Cahill (who hopefully won't bite).
Kenin seems more interested in her new boyfriend than tennis right now. We all know Osaka's got issues.

Add Leylah-Annie and drop Brady?

The event would have to be held in Europe the way things are in the WTA right now.

by Suliso I think European team would win such a hypothetical tournament. Brady the weakest player on that list followed by Jabeur or maybe Kenin in current form.

by meganfernandez No Serena? I would swap Brady and Kenin for Zhang Shuai and Hsieh Su-Wei.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:32 pm This person proposed lineups for a WTA version of the Laver Cup.

Only hardcore tennis fans will know the proposed players on Team Europe.

As for the players proposed for Team World Brady? Kenin? Andeeescu who is probably placing frantic calls to Darren Cahill (who hopefully won't bite).
Kenin seems more interested in her new boyfriend than tennis right now. We all know Osaka's got issues.

Add Leylah-Annie and drop Brady?

The event would have to be held in Europe the way things are in the WTA right now.

by ti-amie Zhang Shuai is the top Chinese woman right now no? I don't know about Hsieh Su-Wei in singles but she'd make a great doubles partner for someone.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:40 pm She should've been fined for this at the very least. Nobody told her to dump a real coach for a pretty boy.

Curious who are you talking about. Her old coach is much more attractive than her new coach.

by ponchi101 How would you call the Laver Cup IF it were held for women's? The Goolagong's Cup?

I would like that roster very much.

by skatingfan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:56 pm No Serena? I would swap Brady and Kenin for Zhang Shuai and Hsieh Su-Wei.

The hypothetical entry list is based on current rankings, so no Serena.

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:32 pm Andeeescu who is probably placing frantic calls to Darren Cahill (who hopefully won't bite).

Did she drop Groeneveld already?

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:01 pm How would you call the Laver Cup IF it were held for women's? The Goolagong's Cup?
I would like that roster very much.

I'd think the Martina Cup or Navratilova Cup would be more apropos. I'd object, but Graf Cup is another possibility. It could also just be like the Ryder Cup, since that what the idea is behind the Laver Cup and just go with something along the lines of the Ellison Cup.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:How would you call the Laver Cup IF it were held for women's? The Goolagong's Cup?
I would like that roster very much.

Gotta go with Turnbull Cup, obviously

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ti-amie I like the idea of the Goolagong Cup or the Navratilova Cup.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:46 pm
ponchi101 wrote:How would you call the Laver Cup IF it were held for women's? The Goolagong's Cup?
I would like that roster very much.
Gotta go with Turnbull Cup, obviously

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The RABBIT cup?

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:46 pm
ponchi101 wrote:How would you call the Laver Cup IF it were held for women's? The Goolagong's Cup?
I would like that roster very much.
Gotta go with Turnbull Cup, obviously

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The RABBIT cup?

Did they call her the Rabbit?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ponchi101 That was Turnbull's nickname indeed. Because of her speed and quickness on court.

by ti-amie

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:37 pm
Translated from German by Google
"I was absolutely loyal to Dominic for six years - and then he doesn't even have the courage to tell me that we're no longer working together."

prnstnr
@prnstnr
Replying to
@ZahrerLukas
Ich bin ja immer sehr vorsichtig, Aussagen einer Einzelperson 1:1 für bare Münze zu nehmen.

Aber irgendwie gefallen mir diese ganzen Vorgänge nicht, die im Team Thiem in den letzten Monaten passieren.

Bin schon sehr gespannt, wie es bei DT laufen wird, sobald er fit ist.
Translated from German by Google
I am always very cautious about taking statements from an individual 1: 1 at face value.

But somehow I don't like all of the processes that have happened in Team Thiem over the past few months.

I'm really excited to see how things will go at DT as soon as he's fit.

Retikulum
@Retikulum18
Replying to
@ZahrerLukas
Stell dir vor du bist Thiems Freundin und hast auf einmal einen Anruf von Blanco am Smartphone.Grimacing face
Translated from German by Google
Imagine you are Thiem's girlfriend and suddenly you have a call from Blanco on your smartphone.

by ti-amie Interesting POV.

by ti-amie Oh my. Listen to what Opelka says when he leans in.

by MJ2004 Dayum.

by skatingfan Opelka is many things I could criticize, but at least he gets to the point.

by JazzNU Shocked at the caping for Isner and Opelka on Tennis Twitter. "Zverev is trash! How dare he! He better be the president of the United States for me to want to shake his hand and bask in his adoration with serious sexual abuse allegations against him."

by ponchi101 There are some good news.
Naomi is saying she is getting the "itch" to come back to play, and soon.
Osaka feels 'itch' to make tennis return 'soon'

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:46 pm There are some good news.
Naomi is saying she is getting the "itch" to come back to play, and soon.
Osaka feels 'itch' to make tennis return 'soon'

Oh, good. I really hope tennis isn't ruined for her forever. Hopefully she has rediscovered her love of competing, training, whatever the challenge it that she enjoys. She's lucky she could afford to take a break and reset. Most players can't.

by Suliso How soon could it be? A tournament before AO, I assume.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:34 pm How soon could it be? A tournament before AO, I assume.

Maybe something low-profile but there's not much after IW. Linz indoors wouldn't be a bad idea if she really wants to get back on court. She's not going to play the 125 Montevideo Open on clay in mid-November

by ponchi101 I find the statement a bit vague but what matters, I believe, is that she is saying she wants to come back. We all know she will get any WC she wants, at any tournament; she is still Naomi. But after all the events in which it looked like she was not happy playing, to hear her say that she has the itch to play again is wonderful news.
Anyway, as Megan says. There are few options out there after IW, although of course there is the YEC. Tough competition but if she goes in there with no expectations, she gets three good rounds of tennis to get back in the groove.

by Suliso

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:50 pm There are few options out there after IW, although of course there is the YEC. Tough competition but if she goes in there with no expectations, she gets three good rounds of tennis to get back in the groove.

It's unlikely she would qualify for that.

by ptmcmahon Thanks Elmo! (See tennis players random random)

by ponchi101 @Suliso. You are right, so we are back at the SLAM WINNERS DO NOT QUALIFY for the YEC. This year, it seems that only Kerjcikova will make it. I doubt Barty will come out of Australia any time soon.
Again, I am glad that Naomi is talking like this. Isn't there this other small YEC-type tournament that is for lower ranked players? Maybe that can do.

by Suliso In theory Osaka is still #6, but she doesn't play and will likely be passed this week by either Muguruza or Jabeur or even both. That plus 1000 point IW to come where she's also not playing makes me think that staying in the top 9 (I assume Barty won't play) is less than 50% probability.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I don't know what this woman is talking about. I see the same old site, I did refresh to make sure I got the latest one, it has scores, it has the same things because it is the same site as yesterday's.
I am missing something.

by JazzNU Pretty sure she's talking about something else. Think it might be the streaming site, not the main WTA Tour one. She's Canadian so she is seeing something different than I am and have access to, but that's my best guess. That's not offered here unfortunately.

by JazzNU This is only too true, I can't think of the last big tennis event that was hosted in Latin America that wasn't the Olympics.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU Does "all" include women? And by "leadership" do you mean Vasek because the President will be MIA?

Curious timing. Is Novak maybe thinking he'll be missing many more in coming months so why not host it now?

by ti-amie

by mick1303

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:35 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:01 pm How would you call the Laver Cup IF it were held for women's? The Goolagong's Cup?
I would like that roster very much.
I'd think the Martina Cup or Navratilova Cup would be more apropos. I'd object, but Graf Cup is another possibility. It could also just be like the Ryder Cup, since that what the idea is behind the Laver Cup and just go with something along the lines of the Ellison Cup.

I'm wondering why is that nobody mentioned the most obvious choice - who won a ladies Calendar Year Grand Slam around the time Laver won his? None other that Margaret Court. Is she like Voldemort here - the name that is prohibited to mention?

by Fastbackss Yes.

by Suliso Why would one give such an honor to a person with a seriously compromised reputation?

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Keep in mind that Allie Kiick is MAGA.

For her to say this implies, like Carillo's action, that whatever was going on was well known within the tennis community. I'm still stunned at Kiick taking this position.

by mmmm8 Speaking of...

FORMER TENNIS PRODIGY THIAGO SEYBOTH WILD UNDER INVESTIGATION FOR DOMESTIC ABUSE: https://tennisuptodate.com/atp/former-t ... stic-abuse

This one IS being investigated, she went to the police and got a restraining order.

Here is a more detaled article in Portuguese: https://www.uol.com.br/esporte/ultimas- ... rporal.htm

He's denied it and said he's a victim of slander and defamaton.

by ti-amie It's interesting that the ATP has left out the Laver Cup incident where there are alleged to be witnesses and is focusing on Shanghai where there were no witnesses. Interesting choice.

by JazzNU Thiago's ex-girlfriend was on Insta Stories late this summer cursing him because she had found out he was cheating on her and didn't use protection. Laughing at her behind her back about how clueless she was or something like that. Sounded like the women he was cheating with were mostly prostitutes. And she was on medication because of the mental distress she was experiencing because of it.

There were no accusations of abuse then. Jose Morgado had something up about it if anyone follows him.

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:02 pm Thiago's ex-girlfriend was on Insta Stories late this summer cursing him because she had found out he was cheating on her and didn't use protection. Laughing at her behind her back about how clueless she was or something like that. Sounded like the women he was cheating with were mostly prostitutes. And she was on medication because of the mental distress she was experiencing because of it.

There were no accusations of abuse then. Jose Morgado had something up about it if anyone follows him.

I follow him and I'll see if I can find his take on this.

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:30 pm It's interesting that the ATP has left out the Laver Cup incident where there are alleged to be witnesses and is focusing on Shanghai where there were no witnesses. Interesting choice.

What year was the Laver Cup incident, because the first couple of editions of that event weren't ATP events?

by ti-amie

skatingfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:24 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:30 pm It's interesting that the ATP has left out the Laver Cup incident where there are alleged to be witnesses and is focusing on Shanghai where there were no witnesses. Interesting choice.
What year was the Laver Cup incident, because the first couple of editions of that event weren't ATP events?

It was the 2019 Laver Cup

by JazzNU Laver Cup isn't a real ATP event, they likely have little purview over it legally speaking. It being a sanctioned event allowed it to get on the calendar which gave it access to the marketing arm of the ATP and the chair umpires and training staff. If you think about it, even for 2021, the ATP signage at the arena was minimal in comparison to a real ATP tour event where points are accumulated.

But in 2019, even more questionable. It was planned from 2018, so contracts signed then or at the latest, early 2019. Agreement with ATP around Spring of 2019 if memory serves, just a few months before the event took place. ATP likely has nothing to do with this even now and certainly not for 2019. The overseer of all the event contracts, I'd assume that's Team8, is who is really running the event, they or one of their financial partners is the most likely organization that assumed the liability for the event.

by ponchi101

mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:30 am ...

I'd think the Martina Cup or Navratilova Cup would be more apropos. I'd object, but Graf Cup is another possibility. It could also just be like the Ryder Cup, since that what the idea is behind the Laver Cup and just go with something along the lines of the Ellison Cup.

I'm wondering why is that nobody mentioned the most obvious choice - who won a ladies Calendar Year Grand Slam around the time Laver won his? None other that Margaret Court. Is she like Voldemort here - the name that is prohibited to mention?

It is not prohibited, although I am stating the obvious. If you are a fan of Court, so be it.
Back to the question: remember there have even been players that have been very vocal about renaming Margaret Court Arena at Melbourne park. For an event that would rely very much on "niceness" and "appeal" by the honored player (Laver is always there at "his" cup), having Court and her opinions at the event would be marketing insanity.
And for many people, immoral.

by mick1303 As far as I know Margaret Court Arena still has her name. Also "being vocal" and "being right" is not the same )

by ti-amie

by dmforever

mick1303 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:51 am As far as I know Margaret Court Arena still has her name. Also "being vocal" and "being right" is not the same )

Are you saying that you agree with keeping Margaret Court Arena's name?

Kevin

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:00 pm

60!?! Out of 750 sent??? Can we offer a small incentive for returning the survey?

by mmmm8 It's a start

by ponchi101 It could mean both things:
Players are so open about it it is not a subject they are interested in.
Or:
It is a third rail topic, so they don't want to get involved.

by ponchi101

mick1303 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:51 am As far as I know Margaret Court Arena still has her name. Also "being vocal" and "being right" is not the same )

Yes and yes. The point being said is that Mrs Court's name could cause some problems. Imagine the next time a LGBTQ players reaches the upper echelons of the game, and plays at such an event. The conflict would be conspicuous.

by dmforever

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:34 am
mick1303 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:51 am As far as I know Margaret Court Arena still has her name. Also "being vocal" and "being right" is not the same )
Yes and yes. The point being said is that Mrs Court's name could cause some problems. Imagine the next time a LGBTQ players reaches the upper echelons of the game, and plays at such an event. The conflict would be conspicuous.

If I can chime in here, it would hopefully not just be LGBTQ players. If I were a pro player and there were a David Duke Arena, (for those who may not know, he was the leader of the KKK years ago and still gets ink every once in a while), I sure in the heck wouldn't play in it, and I'm white. Just sayin'.

Kevin

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:34 am Yes and yes. The point being said is that Mrs Court's name could cause some problems. Imagine the next time a LGBTQ players reaches the upper echelons of the game, and plays at such an event. The conflict would be conspicuous.

She's also a racist from way back. And I would hope many more than just LGBTQ and black players would find her name being involved in any way objectionable. Nothing should ever be named after her ever again. Full stop.

ETA:Ahh, I see my comment echoes Kevin's. His didn't show up for me when I was writing.

by mick1303 I'm wondering if someone here is familiar with the rules of national representation in the Davis Cup? It looks like it is allowed for foreign nationals to participate in the teams. For instance - in the recent tie between Lebanon and Brazil there was a player on the Lebanese team - Benjamin HASSAN. Both ITF and Davis Cup site itself list him as German. Is it something that was always allowed? Or some recent change in the rules?

by mick1303 Regarding Margaret Court: since I'm from former Soviet Union - for a long time I was deprived of wide variety of information, so IDK how her views evolved. The information I had in the past were tennis results and occasionally some short footage. And those results were commanding respect. In tennis you can't hide behind the team or officials (latter is not 100% true, but the friendly officials can impact the result only to limited degree). It is one-on-one and she earned all those wins by herself. I think these results in individual sport cannot be achieved without high mark of personal integrity. Also what I personally resent is a gang mentality when everyone starts targeting certain individual or group in an orchestrated manner. This is in a creepy way resembles how during the worst Stalin times the "enemies of the people" were vilified...

by Fastbackss She absolutely earned those wins. (We won't talk about her inflated Slam count due to nobody traveling to Australia in those years...)

She absolutely has said vile things.

But she said them repeatedly.

She was given a chance to provide context on her view , to recant.

She didn't. In fact she doubled down. Then tripled down.

Bad behaviour at some point can't be rewarded. And as an organisation that is very much public facing...and of course getting public funding (let's not forget the almighty dollar) ...can't be supporting that, even indirectly

by Suliso Also one should note that nobody is doing anything to her (not even removing that stadium name). We merely advocate not bestowing even more honor and recognition to her.

by mmmm8

mick1303 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:02 am Regarding Margaret Court: since I'm from former Soviet Union - for a long time I was deprived of wide variety of information, so IDK how her views evolved. The information I had in the past were tennis results and occasionally some short footage. And those results were commanding respect. In tennis you can't hide behind the team or officials (latter is not 100% true, but the friendly officials can impact the result only to limited degree). It is one-on-one and she earned all those wins by herself. I think these results in individual sport cannot be achieved without high mark of personal integrity. Also what I personally resent is a gang mentality when everyone starts targeting certain individual or group in an orchestrated manner. This is in a creepy way resembles how during the worst Stalin times the "enemies of the people" were vilified...

Mick, I'm also from the former Soviet Union. A country that, at its best, strongly opposed Apartheid, which Court supported, for example (talk about targeting a group in an orchestrated manner). Moreover, that country hasn't existed for 30 years, so one's had 30 years to get more context for Margaret Court and the views she espoused while she was at the height of her success and relevance and hasn't really backed down from. Personal integrity really just means being true to one's self. If one's self is a racist homophobe, it doesn't necessarily command the respect of others. When one is so abhorrent and outspoken in their views, criticizing them isn't "targeting," it's legitmate outrage.

by dmforever

mick1303 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:02 am Regarding Margaret Court: since I'm from former Soviet Union - for a long time I was deprived of wide variety of information, so IDK how her views evolved. The information I had in the past were tennis results and occasionally some short footage. And those results were commanding respect. In tennis you can't hide behind the team or officials (latter is not 100% true, but the friendly officials can impact the result only to limited degree). It is one-on-one and she earned all those wins by herself. I think these results in individual sport cannot be achieved without high mark of personal integrity. Also what I personally resent is a gang mentality when everyone starts targeting certain individual or group in an orchestrated manner. This is in a creepy way resembles how during the worst Stalin times the "enemies of the people" were vilified...

You can google her views. It will take you a minute or two. Her views haven't evolved. They have stayed the same. That's kind of the point. I don't think anyone here is saying her tennis creds are lacking. What we are saying is that someone who repeatedly takes highly homophobic positions doesn't deserve to have an arena named after her.

If you want to say that famous people's achievements should not be diminished because of what they say or do outside of their arena (pun intended), that's one thing. I don't agree with that argument, but some people do, and I think it's an interesting discussion.

If you want to say that what she has said doesn't warrant changing the name of the arena, then that's an entirely different argument which I think won't get much support here.

Perhaps I'm misreading your post, and if so, by all means, correct me, but it sounds to me like you're saying she's a person of integrity (by virtue of her tennis achievements) and that she is being unjustly vilified by people, and the state, both of which are ganging up on her "in an orchestrated manner", all of which is creepy and harkens back to Stalin. That basically sounds like you are defending her and what she said. Are you?

Kevin

by ponchi101 As, I believe, the sole citizen of a dictatorship at the moment, I agree with you, Mick, that "gang mentality" is a terrible thing, and I would not like it applied to anybody.
I am, maybe with you, the sole person that defends Court's record on court. For example, I do not agree that her Aussie Open's are diluted; she won six of those against multiple slams winners somewhere else (and it is a good tennis topic, I believe).
And if somebody were to propose some sort of punishment for Court, I would disagree. Her appalling opinions are hers, and as long as they are not actionable the best course is to ignore her.
But those same statements and opinions make her a very unsavory character. Remember, we were talking hypothetics; nobody is remotely considering a female version of the Laver Cup. Granting her the honor of naming such an event after her would be myopic to the fullest.
I still say The Navratilova Cup. A woman of integrity, that deeply changed tennis. And has always spoken her mind, progressively.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:18 pm As, I believe, the sole citizen of a dictatorship at the moment, I agree with you, Mick, that "gang mentality" is a terrible thing, and I would not like it applied to anybody.
I am, maybe with you, the sole person that defends Court's record on court. For example, I do not agree that her Aussie Open's are diluted; she won six of those against multiple slams winners somewhere else (and it is a good tennis topic, I believe).
And if somebody were to propose some sort of punishment for Court, I would disagree. Her appalling opinions are hers, and as long as they are not actionable the best course is to ignore her.
But those same statements and opinions make her a very unsavory character. Remember, we were talking hypothetics; nobody is remotely considering a female version of the Laver Cup. Granting her the honor of naming such an event after her would be myopic to the fullest.
I still say The Navratilova Cup. A woman of integrity, that deeply changed tennis. And has always spoken her mind, progressively.

I'm with you on Court's tennis record. Her heinous views don't affect her wins. She won those titles fair and square, as far as I know.

But it makes no sense to confer any honors on her from this point on. I don't think a widely held belief equals gang mentality.

I support removing her name from the Australian Open court. If an arena was named after a staunch racist who was actively and publicly working in that direction, I doubt there would be a question about it.

by Suliso Evert cup wouldn't be a horrible choice either. If want to be completely neutral name it after someone dead.

by dmforever

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:29 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:18 pm As, I believe, the sole citizen of a dictatorship at the moment, I agree with you, Mick, that "gang mentality" is a terrible thing, and I would not like it applied to anybody.
I am, maybe with you, the sole person that defends Court's record on court. For example, I do not agree that her Aussie Open's are diluted; she won six of those against multiple slams winners somewhere else (and it is a good tennis topic, I believe).
And if somebody were to propose some sort of punishment for Court, I would disagree. Her appalling opinions are hers, and as long as they are not actionable the best course is to ignore her.
But those same statements and opinions make her a very unsavory character. Remember, we were talking hypothetics; nobody is remotely considering a female version of the Laver Cup. Granting her the honor of naming such and event after her would be myopic to the fullest.
I still say The Navratilova Cup. A woman of integrity, that deeply changed tennis. And has always spoken her mind, progressively.
I'm with you on Court's tennis record. Her heinous views don't affect her wins. She won those titles fair and square, as far as I know.

But it makes no sense to confer any honors on her from this point on. I don't think a widely held belief equals gang mentality.

I support removing her name from the Australian Open court. If an arena was named after a staunch racist who was actively and publicly working in that direction, I doubt there would be a question about it.

Word. Homophobia, especially when it's wrapped in a soft-spoken religious package, often gets a pass that it doesn't deserve.

Kevin

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:32 pm Evert cup wouldn't be a horrible choice either. If want to be completely neutral name it after someone dead.

The Gibson Cup.

Serena would make sense - or both Williams, the Williams Cup - after they both retire, but it would be weird if they didn't give their blessing. I have a feeling they wouldn't unless they were in charge. wouldn't take a ceremonial, honorary role.

by Suliso No, that's way too recent. Sampras cup would also not be appropriate for the same reason.

by JazzNU

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:21 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:32 pm Evert cup wouldn't be a horrible choice either. If want to be completely neutral name it after someone dead.
The Gibson Cup.

Love the idea of calling it the Gibson Cup.

Disregarding the name being used before, I think Evert Cup only makes sense if the tournament will be held yearly on clay, at least to start. Passing up too many options to get to her unless she's the one who is organizing the event. And I think clay would be a great idea personally, I've never been a fan of so many of these Year End titles and Cups being played on hard courts all the damn time and then dragging successful clay court players for not doing as well at those tournaments. Davis and Fed Cup would've been considerably more boring if it was limited to one surface.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:21 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:32 pm Evert cup wouldn't be a horrible choice either. If want to be completely neutral name it after someone dead.
The Gibson Cup.

...

If this would ever happen, it would be completely lovely to call it that way.
The greatest player ever that has been completely forgotten by everybody except hard core fans. And that went through hell for her entire career. Talk about an example.

by JTContinental I'm holding out for the Viele or Karatantcheva Cup

by ponchi101 ^^ And now... Something completely different

by mick1303

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:01 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:02 am Regarding Margaret Court: since I'm from former Soviet Union - for a long time I was deprived of wide variety of information, so IDK how her views evolved. The information I had in the past were tennis results and occasionally some short footage. And those results were commanding respect. In tennis you can't hide behind the team or officials (latter is not 100% true, but the friendly officials can impact the result only to limited degree). It is one-on-one and she earned all those wins by herself. I think these results in individual sport cannot be achieved without high mark of personal integrity. Also what I personally resent is a gang mentality when everyone starts targeting certain individual or group in an orchestrated manner. This is in a creepy way resembles how during the worst Stalin times the "enemies of the people" were vilified...

Mick, I'm also from the former Soviet Union. A country that, at its best, strongly opposed Apartheid, which Court supported, for example (talk about targeting a group in an orchestrated manner). Moreover, that country hasn't existed for 30 years, so one's had 30 years to get more context for Margaret Court and the views she espoused while she was at the height of her success and relevance and hasn't really backed down from. Personal integrity really just means being true to one's self. If one's self is a racist homophobe, it doesn't necessarily command the respect of others. When one is so abhorrent and outspoken in their views, criticizing them isn't "targeting," it's legitmate outrage.

I did try to google "Margaret Court racist". And you know how google works - when you start typing - it gives you hints - possible conclusion of your search string. In this case it was nothing. And in the search results there were accusation against Court for being homophobic, but nothing about her being racist. More precisely - the title says that Navratilova accuses Court for being racist and homophobic, but when you read further - nothing specific about being a racist. I could not follow all links, because some of them insisted on me disabling Ad Blocker, which I would not do.

If we to discuss the possibility of such Cup on ladies side - that would be a very intriguing competition, because the result is harder to predict. How to name it - I don't have a strong opinion. To me it is better to have such a competition regardless of how you name it.

by Deuce

mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:46 am I did try to google "Margaret Court racist". And you know how google works - when you start typing - it gives you hints - possible conclusion of your search string. In this case it was nothing. And in the search results there were accusation against Court for being homophobic, but nothing about her being racist. More precisely - the title says that Navratilova accuses Court for being racist and homophobic, but when you read further - nothing specific about being a racist. I could not follow all links, because some of them insisted on me disabling Ad Blocker, which I would not do.

Ironically (and hypocritically), the people who claim to be against labelling the most are very often the ones who label others the most. There are examples of this everywhere - it happens over and over and over. Just as those who claim to be very open and tolerant are the ones who are the least tolerant of any opinion or perspective which differs from their own.

Unfortunately today, it takes very little for someone to be labelled. I suppose it provides those who label with a sense of ‘victory’ - if a rather hollow one - when someone is vilified. They need to create a villain - and if it’s based on conjecture and exaggeration - both of which the internet is obviously full of -, then that’s fine. As long as the villain is created, it matters not how.
As far as the Margaret Court issue goes, I think that most are simply regurgitating what Navratilova said; simply adopting a perspective rather than doing any profound research of their own - perhaps partially for fear that their research may show that the truth may not align with their agenda as well as they hoped it would.

And the label ‘racist’ seems to be a very popular one now. No longer is it reserved for proven racists (who deserve the label), but it is tossed around today far too easily and flippantly. Those tossing around a word like ‘racist’ left and right do not seem to realize that, by so doing, they are actually minimizing the meaning of the word in the same way that the boy who cried wolf lessened the value of his claim.
And comparing naming something for Margaret Court to naming something for the leader of the KKK? Seriously?? I don’t believe any leader of the KKK ever won a Grand Slam tournament (let alone 24 of them). Nor do I think Margaret Court ever burned any crosses. This is an example of what I’m referring to in saying that people exaggerate because they need to justify their labelling of someone as some sort of ‘villain’.

And, yes, there is definitely a lot of ‘gang mentality’ involved, as people pile onto whatever is ‘trending’ and popular at the moment - even if its foundation is less than solid. Anyone who has studied sociology to any degree will tell you the same. The vast majority of people want to belong to, and be associated with, whatever is ‘popular’ at any given moment.

I’m a firm believer in holding people accountable for their actions. But I don’t see that Margaret Court performed any actual actions. She said some words - that’s all, as far as I know. She stated her opinion on something - and everyone is permitted to do that, whether a million people agree with it or none do. And the words she spoke were surely misconstrued and exaggerated to some degree - because that’s what the internet (and much of the media) does. People are free to disagree - and that’s fine. But today, it seems that people no longer know how to disagree. They jump right over the disagreement stage and go straight to labelling and vilifying and creating villains. It’s rather disconcerting.

Frankly, I really don’t understand all of this vilifying of Margaret Court. I suppose she makes for a convenient villain in tennis circles. Even if she is the things that some people are claiming, giving her all of this attention serves only to get her message out to more people. Do people honestly believe that Margaret Court alone today, at almost 80 years old, without all of this exposure, has a significant influence on people? I don’t believe for a moment that she has anywhere near a significant influence. And so why does what a 79 year old Australian former tennis player whom you’ve never met, and who doesn’t know you at all - why does what she says mean anything at all to you? Why does it have any importance at all?
Once you allow yourself to be affected by it, you are only ‘empowering’ the person who said it. If their words have no effect, then they are talking into a vacuum. Why do people insist on being ‘offended’, or affected? Why isn’t it all simply ‘water off a ducks back’ as people ignore it because it’s not worth being affected by? What good does it really accomplish to be affected by it and to give so much attention to it?

And before people begin saying that I don’t know how it feels because I’m not a member of any minority... I’ve been a member of more than one minority plenty of times in my life. Plenty of times in several different circumstances. And any criticism of the minority group I’ve found myself part of has never affected me in the least. Whether the criticism was founded in ignorance or in ‘hate’, I’ve never been affected by it. Because I knew that the instant I allow it to ‘offend’ me, and/or to affect me negatively, then the party uttering the criticism has won the battle, because then they will have accomplished precisely what they set out to accomplish.

by mmmm8

mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:46 am I did try to google "Margaret Court racist". And you know how google works - when you start typing - it gives you hints - possible conclusion of your search string. In this case it was nothing. And in the search results there were accusation against Court for being homophobic, but nothing about her being racist. More precisely - the title says that Navratilova accuses Court for being racist and homophobic, but when you read further - nothing specific about being a racist. I could not follow all links, because some of them insisted on me disabling Ad Blocker, which I would not do.

If we to discuss the possibility of such Cup on ladies side - that would be a very intriguing competition, because the result is harder to predict. How to name it - I don't have a strong opinion. To me it is better to have such a competition regardless of how you name it.

Do you think we are collectively lying to you?

Here are two articles found in about 10 seconds by using Google that have:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... f-a-nation
https://indianexpress.com/article/expla ... n-7160054/

You can also read her Wikipedia entry.

I'm sure you'll say she's not racist because she said she "loves all people..." while advocating for segregation.

by dmforever

mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:46 am
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:01 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:02 am Regarding Margaret Court: since I'm from former Soviet Union - for a long time I was deprived of wide variety of information, so IDK how her views evolved. The information I had in the past were tennis results and occasionally some short footage. And those results were commanding respect. In tennis you can't hide behind the team or officials (latter is not 100% true, but the friendly officials can impact the result only to limited degree). It is one-on-one and she earned all those wins by herself. I think these results in individual sport cannot be achieved without high mark of personal integrity. Also what I personally resent is a gang mentality when everyone starts targeting certain individual or group in an orchestrated manner. This is in a creepy way resembles how during the worst Stalin times the "enemies of the people" were vilified...

Mick, I'm also from the former Soviet Union. A country that, at its best, strongly opposed Apartheid, which Court supported, for example (talk about targeting a group in an orchestrated manner). Moreover, that country hasn't existed for 30 years, so one's had 30 years to get more context for Margaret Court and the views she espoused while she was at the height of her success and relevance and hasn't really backed down from. Personal integrity really just means being true to one's self. If one's self is a racist homophobe, it doesn't necessarily command the respect of others. When one is so abhorrent and outspoken in their views, criticizing them isn't "targeting," it's legitmate outrage.
I did try to google "Margaret Court racist". And you know how google works - when you start typing - it gives you hints - possible conclusion of your search string. In this case it was nothing. And in the search results there were accusation against Court for being homophobic, but nothing about her being racist. More precisely - the title says that Navratilova accuses Court for being racist and homophobic, but when you read further - nothing specific about being a racist. I could not follow all links, because some of them insisted on me disabling Ad Blocker, which I would not do.

If we to discuss the possibility of such Cup on ladies side - that would be a very intriguing competition, because the result is harder to predict. How to name it - I don't have a strong opinion. To me it is better to have such a competition regardless of how you name it.

What about the super homophobic part? Isn't that bad enough?

Kevin

by mick1303

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:35 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:46 am I did try to google "Margaret Court racist". And you know how google works - when you start typing - it gives you hints - possible conclusion of your search string. In this case it was nothing. And in the search results there were accusation against Court for being homophobic, but nothing about her being racist. More precisely - the title says that Navratilova accuses Court for being racist and homophobic, but when you read further - nothing specific about being a racist. I could not follow all links, because some of them insisted on me disabling Ad Blocker, which I would not do.

If we to discuss the possibility of such Cup on ladies side - that would be a very intriguing competition, because the result is harder to predict. How to name it - I don't have a strong opinion. To me it is better to have such a competition regardless of how you name it.

Do you think we are collectively lying to you?

Here are two articles found in about 10 seconds by using Google that have:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... f-a-nation
https://indianexpress.com/article/expla ... n-7160054/

You can also read her Wikipedia entry.

I'm sure you'll say she's not racist because she said she "loves all people..." while advocating for segregation.

In 1970, Court kicked things off by praising South Africa’s apartheid policy (“South Africans have this thing better organised than any other country, particularly America,” she said. “I love South Africa. I’ll go back there any time.”), for which she received very little lasting scrutiny.
============
These quotes of Court in this article is ALL THERE IS on her alleged racist views. And I've seen oh so many times how media quotes out of context, PUSHING THEIR OWN AGENDA. Maybe, just maybe - she "received very little lasting scrutiny" because she wasn't talking about apartheid? Because "this thing" is too generic to rely on. Why this quote is so short? Such short quotes to me is a signal that someone is trying to tamper with the source...

Also - when a writer expresses a displeasure that someone "received very little lasting scrutiny" for a statement rather than an action - to me it is not a good outlook. I'm starting to think that this writer - Russell Jackson - would like a free speech to be applied selectively - it is free for him, but others shall be scrutinized. Isn't it a bit hypocritical?

by mmmm8 I give up.

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:00 pmI give up.

I don't even try.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU Terrible uninformative Tweet. So here's what that Tweet should've said since I just had to look up WTH that company is.

"Jenson Brooksby has signed a multiyear endorsement deal with eyewear maker @TheCloosCorp, only the company’s second sports endorsement deal. The first is with Tom Brady.

Was that so hard? Plenty of characters remaining too.

by JazzNU Leonardo Mayer is retiring. I wish him well.

by ponchi101 I think he can make a good coach. Lots of energy and drive, so for a young Argentinean coming into the tour, he could provide a lot.
Indeed, I wish him well. He is also a very likeable person.

by Suliso

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:14 pm I think he can make a good coach. Lots of energy and drive, so for a young Argentinean coming into the tour, he could provide a lot.
Indeed, I wish him well. He is also a very likeable person.

You're thinking of Juan Manuel Cerundolo, right?

by ponchi101 Could be. And Argie's like to stick to their own coaches. Although I do not see much upside to Cerundolo.

by Suliso

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:17 pm Could be. And Argie's like to stick to their own coaches. Although I do not see much upside to Cerundolo.

I've not seen him play. Can you explain why? Is he a lesser version of Schwartzman?

by dmforever

mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:53 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:35 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:46 am I did try to google "Margaret Court racist". And you know how google works - when you start typing - it gives you hints - possible conclusion of your search string. In this case it was nothing. And in the search results there were accusation against Court for being homophobic, but nothing about her being racist. More precisely - the title says that Navratilova accuses Court for being racist and homophobic, but when you read further - nothing specific about being a racist. I could not follow all links, because some of them insisted on me disabling Ad Blocker, which I would not do.

If we to discuss the possibility of such Cup on ladies side - that would be a very intriguing competition, because the result is harder to predict. How to name it - I don't have a strong opinion. To me it is better to have such a competition regardless of how you name it.

Do you think we are collectively lying to you?

Here are two articles found in about 10 seconds by using Google that have:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... f-a-nation
https://indianexpress.com/article/expla ... n-7160054/

You can also read her Wikipedia entry.

I'm sure you'll say she's not racist because she said she "loves all people..." while advocating for segregation.
In 1970, Court kicked things off by praising South Africa’s apartheid policy (“South Africans have this thing better organised than any other country, particularly America,” she said. “I love South Africa. I’ll go back there any time.”), for which she received very little lasting scrutiny.
============
These quotes of Court in this article is ALL THERE IS on her alleged racist views. And I've seen oh so many times how media quotes out of context, PUSHING THEIR OWN AGENDA. Maybe, just maybe - she "received very little lasting scrutiny" because she wasn't talking about apartheid? Because "this thing" is too generic to rely on. Why this quote is so short? Such short quotes to me is a signal that someone is trying to tamper with the source...

Also - when a writer expresses a displeasure that someone "received very little lasting scrutiny" for a statement rather than an action - to me it is not a good outlook. I'm starting to think that this writer - Russell Jackson - would like a free speech to be applied selectively - it is free for him, but others shall be scrutinized. Isn't it a bit hypocritical?

I'll say it one more time and then I'll quit. You have made zero comment on her repeated extremely homophobic stances. I can only assume that those stances aren't problematic for you.

Kevin

by mick1303

dmforever wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:28 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:53 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:35 pm

Do you think we are collectively lying to you?

Here are two articles found in about 10 seconds by using Google that have:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... f-a-nation
https://indianexpress.com/article/expla ... n-7160054/

You can also read her Wikipedia entry.

I'm sure you'll say she's not racist because she said she "loves all people..." while advocating for segregation.
In 1970, Court kicked things off by praising South Africa’s apartheid policy (“South Africans have this thing better organised than any other country, particularly America,” she said. “I love South Africa. I’ll go back there any time.”), for which she received very little lasting scrutiny.
============
These quotes of Court in this article is ALL THERE IS on her alleged racist views. And I've seen oh so many times how media quotes out of context, PUSHING THEIR OWN AGENDA. Maybe, just maybe - she "received very little lasting scrutiny" because she wasn't talking about apartheid? Because "this thing" is too generic to rely on. Why this quote is so short? Such short quotes to me is a signal that someone is trying to tamper with the source...

Also - when a writer expresses a displeasure that someone "received very little lasting scrutiny" for a statement rather than an action - to me it is not a good outlook. I'm starting to think that this writer - Russell Jackson - would like a free speech to be applied selectively - it is free for him, but others shall be scrutinized. Isn't it a bit hypocritical?
I'll say it one more time and then I'll quit. You have made zero comment on her repeated extremely homophobic stances. I can only assume that those stances aren't problematic for you.

Kevin

These "homophobic stances" judging by what she actually said I consider as an understandable reaction of highly religious person raised in the 50s society. Not enough to declare that she is a horrible person.

It is also a matter of perspective. I live in Ukraine. The country is in bad shape, to put it mildly. If you stop an average person on the street here and ask - what is their opinion on the unequal treatment of gays and how serious of a problem is it - they will think that you're either imbecile or a pranker. This being a problem does not register on anybody's radar here, because of the severity of other problems.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU It's not just that, the repeated "other sports" as if they are set up even remotely close to tennis has gotten ridiculous from the tennis journalists. What is the PGA Tour doing? That's your comparison. Because those "other sport" are organized leagues in specific countries with teams and the players are employees.

Nothing wrong with rookie orientation, but again, realize that means something very different in tennis than it does in other sports, because again, leagues are a good deal different than how tennis operates.

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:23 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:17 pm Could be. And Argie's like to stick to their own coaches. Although I do not see much upside to Cerundolo.
I've not seen him play. Can you explain why? Is he a lesser version of Schwartzman?

Taller than Diego, for sure (not a considerable achievement) but very limited game. Not a lot of power, good wheels, not a huge serve. There are 50 like him out there right now.
The power issue is problematic. I believe that if you have not developed power by 16, it is very hard to get it later one (Wozniacki and Aggie were my two main examples).
BTW. I saw him once (the final he won in Argentina). So take that with a grain of salt.

by ti-amie Speaking of volleying...

Check the dates.

by dmforever

mick1303 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:09 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:28 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:53 pm

In 1970, Court kicked things off by praising South Africa’s apartheid policy (“South Africans have this thing better organised than any other country, particularly America,” she said. “I love South Africa. I’ll go back there any time.”), for which she received very little lasting scrutiny.
============
These quotes of Court in this article is ALL THERE IS on her alleged racist views. And I've seen oh so many times how media quotes out of context, PUSHING THEIR OWN AGENDA. Maybe, just maybe - she "received very little lasting scrutiny" because she wasn't talking about apartheid? Because "this thing" is too generic to rely on. Why this quote is so short? Such short quotes to me is a signal that someone is trying to tamper with the source...

Also - when a writer expresses a displeasure that someone "received very little lasting scrutiny" for a statement rather than an action - to me it is not a good outlook. I'm starting to think that this writer - Russell Jackson - would like a free speech to be applied selectively - it is free for him, but others shall be scrutinized. Isn't it a bit hypocritical?
I'll say it one more time and then I'll quit. You have made zero comment on her repeated extremely homophobic stances. I can only assume that those stances aren't problematic for you.

Kevin
These "homophobic stances" judging by what she actually said I consider as an understandable reaction of highly religious person raised in the 50s society. Not enough to declare that she is a horrible person.

It is also a matter of perspective. I live in Ukraine. The country is in bad shape, to put it mildly. If you stop an average person on the street here and ask - what is their opinion on the unequal treatment of gays and how serious of a problem is it - they will think that you're either imbecile or a pranker. This being a problem does not register on anybody's radar here, because of the severity of other problems.

Thanks for your answer. This will be my last post on this point because frankly I don't think any more discussion will be worth my time.
Her background doesn't make her any less homophobic. It's like saying racist people who are super racist because they were raised in a racist family aren't that bad. That would basically make everyone not that bad because hate is a learned behavior. It isn't the default. Everyone has a reason for their hate. Those reasons aren't a free pass to spout hate.

I'm really sorry about the condition that your country is in right now. I have students from Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia and they have all told me stories of what's going on, and I try to read the news as much as possible, so I know a little bit. But of course you and your family, friends, and loved ones are experiencing it first hand. I hope you and they are all OK.

To say that homophobia doesn't register on anyone's radar in Ukraine is grossly incorrect. Ask a lesbian, gay, trans, or non-binary person in Ukraine if homophobia is a problem, even given the current situation, and I'm sure you'll hear an earful. Violence against the LGBTQ community in Eastern Europe, especially now is no laughing matter. (And I'm not singling you out. It's bad in the US too.) The fact that you didn't include them in your answer speaks volumes. They are somebody, even if society in general doesn't consider them to be, or considers them less.

You didn't say that Court's racist comments didn't matter because of the era that she was raised, or because Ukraine has too many other problems to be worried about racism. You treated the two really differently.

I don't know if you can see my position, but I"ll try to make it very personal and clear. What Court has said about LGBTQ issues matters. Of course, she has no direct affect on me. I live in the US. But her ideas do directly affect me. I have only been able to have the family of my choice since 2013. That's less than 10 years. And there are people here, even people on the Supreme Court, who think that I shouldn't have that right. That I shouldn't be able to give power of attorney to my spouse if I were in an accident. That my spouse shouldn't be able to get health care through my job. I could go on, but I think you get the picture. Please consider the fact that there are many many things that you take for granted (being able to hold hands and kiss in public without violence or harassment, being able to get married and all the attendant rights that come with that, being able to have a picture of your spouse/girlfriend/boyfriend at work without fear of getting fired, or harassed, being able to look or dress or talk or walk in a way that doesn't provoke violence against yourself) that the LGBTQ community does not. We know how easily these things can be taken away if we have them, or how much we need to fight for them if we don't. So for us, her words matter.

She has had decades to talk to people in the LGBTQ community, to read, to watch videos, to educate herself. As someone else said, she has chosen to triple down. She has chosen to hate. This should be enough to get her name removed from the Australian Open.

I apologize to everyone here in advance. We all come here for tennis mostly. I get it. I know this is kind of a diatribe, but I sort of just feel like I need to speak up. Otherwise, my silence feels like complicity.

Kevin

by ti-amie

dmforever wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:34 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:09 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:28 pm

I'll say it one more time and then I'll quit. You have made zero comment on her repeated extremely homophobic stances. I can only assume that those stances aren't problematic for you.

Kevin
These "homophobic stances" judging by what she actually said I consider as an understandable reaction of highly religious person raised in the 50s society. Not enough to declare that she is a horrible person.

It is also a matter of perspective. I live in Ukraine. The country is in bad shape, to put it mildly. If you stop an average person on the street here and ask - what is their opinion on the unequal treatment of gays and how serious of a problem is it - they will think that you're either imbecile or a pranker. This being a problem does not register on anybody's radar here, because of the severity of other problems.
Thanks for your answer. This will be my last post on this point because frankly I don't think any more discussion will be worth my time.
Her background doesn't make her any less homophobic. It's like saying racist people who are super racist because they were raised in a racist family aren't that bad. That would basically make everyone not that bad because hate is a learned behavior. It isn't the default. Everyone has a reason for their hate. Those reasons aren't a free pass to spout hate.

I'm really sorry about the condition that your country is in right now. I have students from Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia and they have all told me stories of what's going on, and I try to read the news as much as possible, so I know a little bit. But of course you and your family, friends, and loved ones are experiencing it first hand. I hope you and they are all OK.

To say that homophobia doesn't register on anyone's radar in Ukraine is grossly incorrect. Ask a lesbian, gay, trans, or non-binary person in Ukraine if homophobia is a problem, even given the current situation, and I'm sure you'll hear an earful. Violence against the LGBTQ community in Eastern Europe, especially now is no laughing matter. (And I'm not singling you out. It's bad in the US too.) The fact that you didn't include them in your answer speaks volumes. They are somebody, even if society in general doesn't consider them to be, or considers them less.

You didn't say that Court's racist comments didn't matter because of the era that she was raised, or because Ukraine has too many other problems to be worried about racism. You treated the two really differently.

I don't know if you can see my position, but I"ll try to make it very personal and clear. What Court has said about LGBTQ issues matters. Of course, she has no direct affect on me. I live in the US. But her ideas do directly affect me. I have only been able to have the family of my choice since 2013. That's less than 10 years. And there are people here, even people on the Supreme Court, who think that I shouldn't have that right. That I shouldn't be able to give power of attorney to my spouse if I were in an accident. That my spouse shouldn't be able to get health care through my job. I could go on, but I think you get the picture. Please consider the fact that there are many many things that you take for granted (being able to hold hands and kiss in public without violence or harassment, being able to get married and all the attendant rights that come with that, being able to have a picture of your spouse/girlfriend/boyfriend at work without fear of getting fired, or harassed, being able to look or dress or talk or walk in a way that doesn't provoke violence against yourself) that the LGBTQ community does not. We know how easily these things can be taken away if we have them, or how much we need to fight for them if we don't. So for us, her words matter.

She has had decades to talk to people in the LGBTQ community, to read, to watch videos, to educate herself. As someone else said, she has chosen to triple down. She has chosen to hate. This should be enough to get her name removed from the Australian Open.

I apologize to everyone here in advance. We all come here for tennis mostly. I get it. I know this is kind of a diatribe, but I sort of just feel like I need to speak up. Otherwise, my silence feels like complicity.

Kevin

Thank you for this Kevin.

by ponchi101 Thanks to all, and I do mean it. As is very frequent, some conversations at TAT really make you think.
I only wish it could be done in person. So many interesting questions to ask.

by ti-amie Raw, Real and Reilly – Meet the No. 1 Player in America: Badass Reilly Opelka
October 5, 2021

US Open

Bill Simons

Reilly Opelka is big: 7 feet tall. He’s brash. He serves up thunderous blasts and unvarnished “I’ll do it my way” commentaries. Yet this massive warrior is also into fashion and the works of trendy artists many of us peasants haven’t even heard of.

His hair has the wild, “chaos is beautiful” look of a rock ‘n’ roll roadie, and he’s happy that people don’t like it. While he adores a tennis icon, John McEnroe, whom some dismiss, he hates a tourney, Indian Wells, that many love. He says he won’t name names, but then he sort of does. Ranked No. 19, he’s the top American male tennis player, but he doesn’t think American men have much of a chance to be the best. And, oh, yes, he says the tennis media suck.

Other than that, he’s just your typical 7-foot-tall, 24-year-old white multimillionaire who’s inspired by a black female legend, digs Rome, Tokyo and the streets of Manhattan, and doesn’t give a s–t what you think.

Italian Fabio Fognini says Opelka’s game is boring. But the Michigan native, who has long lived in Florida, may well be the most intriguing top-20 star to emerge out of the ATP since Nick Kyrgios. He’s real, raw, very salty and eminently likeable. Here’s our conversation:

In your press conferences you’re so bright, so present and quite the badass. Where does all that come from?

I’ve been fortunate to be around some good tennis minds and good quality people my whole life: Tom Gullickson, Jay Berger, Jim Loehr, and Venus – who has one of the best perspectives on life from a player. I’ve been super lucky. I met Gullickson at eight – I hadn’t even played yet. If I hadn’t met Gully, I wouldn’t have met Berger. If I hadn’t met Jay, I wouldn’t have met Loehr. If I was not on tour, I wouldn’t hang out with Venus or learn from John Isner.

Jim Loehr, the mental fitness pioneer, is unique. What’s the one take-away from him?

Complex guy. It’s crazy, I can explain things to him and he already knows. He fills them in before I even say them. It’s nuts. He’s worked with so many great people. He has a great perspective on how small tennis is in the big scheme of things. He has a good outlook on balance, and what really matters. He’s dealt with Navy Seals who have seen their best friend step on a landmine. Those are traumatic events – not just hitting a yellow ball and missing a lot.

The Laver Cup was a wakeup call. Can American men possibly emerge and get to the very top pretty soon?

No. No, I don’t think we can.

Is it that Europe is just…?

The Russians. The Russians – they are here to stay and they are here to dominate for a while.

You guys are working your asses off, but you know the European and US stats. Why is there such a disparity?

We are only a handful of guys. It’s just a much smaller sample size. In Europe it’s either soccer or tennis. In the US it’s either football, baseball or basketball. Soccer is bigger than tennis in the US, lacrosse is bigger. The best athletes in the world are American. But they just play basketball and football. And why not? I wish I played basketball. I think I’m a great athlete, my body moves well for a 7-footer. If I was a mediocre basketball player, a top 20 NBA player, I’d be making $28 million a year. Instead I’m grinding, traveling the world and making much less. I could stay at home, cash checks for 12 years. If you are the eighth man on the Bulls, you are making more than the guy who’s No. 8 in the world [in tennis].

You said Seb Korda and Jenson Brooksby would be our future champs.

The young guys are better than us, if I’m being honest. Korda is a hell of a player…Brooksby is brutal…He’s going to be a big second-week guy. [Brandon] Nakashima is as pure of a ball-striker as there is. The young guys are going to be the guys to beat, from the American standpoint…Korda’s dad was a great player – no offense to Seb but it’s hard not to be great. He grew up with a great tennis mind and he’s a nice kid. He’s got a nice build, a nice modern-day tennis frame…[But] I’d invest in Brooksby. He’s special, and could be No. 1. His mind works so differently. He’s got this game plan, he sees things so well and is so tricky. Behind the baseline he reminds me of Djokovic. He’s got great depth, is a great ball striker, a great mover, good size and intangibles. He’s got this X-factor, his mindset, that could make him a future Grand Slam champion.

You said the tennis media sucks.

These guys are terrible – there are some bad journalists. You have some guys that just criticize. They look to be super negative. Guys that know nothing about tennis. I think we have the worst media of any sport, quite frankly.

Do you think there are reporters who do have an understanding, who work hard to tell the story of the game and bring personalities alive?

I’m sure there are, but none of the ones that interview me or none of the ones that I’ve done pressers [with]. I’m in the finals of Toronto and these guys are asking me, “What’s wrong with American tennis? Why aren’t there any American players in the top 30?” The same in Rome: I’m in the semis and they are finding the negative. I’m 23 and playing Rafa. Things are quite all right. I’m in the finals of Toronto and we are going to talk about how Americans don’t win Slams?

They take subtle shots at John Isner. I’m like, “Why?” He’s been top 20 for 10 years in a row. We have a journalist saying, “Mixed-doubles is not in the French Open this year. That’s what makes a Slam a Slam.” Like, really? Is that a joke? There shouldn’t even be mixed doubles. They should get rid of it completely. It doesn’t sell a ticket. No one cares about it, no one watches or wants it to be there. Just get rid of it and throw all that money into the women’s and men’s qualifying. Take care of your people that actually have potential to sell tickets. It just shocks me. The media is awful in our sport. It holds our sport back, it really does.

John McEnroe recently said that Americans fans were spoiled by generations of great players who actually won Slams. Do fans just want winners and don’t appreciate lower ranked players?

Enjoy what you got – the guys that are here. Why criticize them so much? Don’t compare us to Sampras and Agassi. Just enjoy us, support us. You don’t even know the first thing about me. There are so many negative people out there. I could name names but I don’t want to. [Actually] I do want to name names because I do want to call them out, but at the same time I don’t even want them to know that I give a s–t about them because they have no say in my life. [He then names three of America’s most prominent tennis writers, but asks me not to use their names. But then he continued.]

I will say one name. Chris Fowler tweeted about Carlos Alcaraz, the youngest man to make a Slam quarterfinal. He tweeted, “What a shame that he threw in the towel, hope that this isn’t a pattern.” That was pathetic.

But Alcaraz is just 18, he plays in the shadow of Rafa and he was balling in New York and had a great run.

I tweeted back at Fowler saying, “After everything Carlos showed us this week, you’re really going to question his courage?” That’s one take that’s terrible. This guy is on ESPN, he does college football, he shouldn’t work another tennis match. It hurts the sport because ESPN has a lot of guys who are following football or don’t know Carlos Alcaraz…and don’t know anything about tennis and they’re like, “This young kid just completely just walked off the court, what an idiot, what a jackass.” That just can’t happen. If I’m commissioner of tennis, that’s one offense too much.

There are some problematic media people, but there are plenty who are trying to do the work and staying up till 1:30 AM to file their stuff…

Totally, yeah – I know there are, but with that same logic they wrote me into the same American negative narrative. Not ripping you, but people were so sensitive about it. It’s like if you’re not willing to take it, don’t dish it out. I’m not just going to sit up on the podium and be a punching bag. Find something other than Sampras and Agassi, like, get over it. Quit blowing on that s–t. It’s over. Times have changed. It is 2021, we are not in the eighties and nineties, move on.

What about your core generation, Frances Tiafoe, Tommy Paul and Taylor Fritz – fresh energy, working hard?

We’re all friends, no bad blood. We’re not the next Agassi, Sampras or Courier. Do you know how many times I’ve been asked that? Can I finally say, ’I don’t know and I don’t f–king care.” All I know is that I like Frances, Tommy and Fritz. We have fun and travel the world. Frances came from Sierra Leone and has done an incredible job…Tommy Paul’s from Greenville, North Carolina. He didn’t come from money, he didn’t have a coach. His mom saved up money, traveled to every tournament, no matter how far. Same thing for me. I’m not from much money. I have two great parents. They gave me every resource and went into debt. We came from nothing. It’s all perspective.

Does it bring you pride that as such a big man you are bringing athleticism, movement and stroke production to the game?

I take some pride in it. I take pride in winning matches and being the best I can be. I don’t care how I win, I don’t care if it’s ugly, I don’t care if a tennis journalist wants to criticize it and say I have no return of serve. If I hold serve 95% of the time I’m going to be top 8 in the world. I’m one of the best athletes in the world. I’m going to be making 8 to 10 million dollars, and I won’t give a s–t about what anyone else thinks.

There’s a long history of guys with long hair – Borg, Agassi, Federer, Hewitt, Blake – cutting their locks. Is your hair a statement?

It’s just different, it’s just a switch up. It’s like a punk look. It’s long, it’s different, it’s crazy, it’s curly. I like it. And I like that people don’t like it.

Many tennis players have been into art. Vitas Gerulaitis, Wojciech Fibak, Ivan Lendl, Milos Raonic and even John McEnroe.

ATP

McEnroe’s made more money off of one painting than he did in his career earnings. He has plenty of paintings like that. We’re talking serious art: Andy Warhol, Basquiat, and he has four Philip Gustons, who is my favorite artist. That’s pretty wild. He’s a really sweet guy. I’ve always gotten along well with guys like McEnroe because it’s impossible to have a problem with them because he tells you everything he’s feeling. He just shoots straight and tells me how it is. And on top of that there are not many people that have four Philip Guston paintings, Basquiat, Picassos, and Warhols and lived through the 70s and 80s era of rock and roll and tennis. People just think of him as mentally crazy, a hothead New York guy….[But] he was incredibly, incredibly optimistic at Laver Cup. He’s misunderstood…He’s a genius. He’s brilliant and cultured. He’s a rock star.

You’ve broken into the top 20. Now what do you want to do in the sport?

My dream is to win a Slam.

Next up is the great Indian Wells.

It’s my least favorite tournament. You have 128 girls, 128 men. It’s a beautiful event. They want to pay more than any other tournament. They do everything they can. It’s just that every brand needs to do a photoshoot and you don’t have time to practice. They’re four- or five-hour photo shoots and you’re completely tired. Tennis is secondary. I hate it.

Stefanos Tsitsipas was criticized heavily by Zverev in Cincy and by Murray in New York for gamesmanship, for taking long breaks that they claimed changed the momentum.

I took long bathroom breaks in Toronto and got criticized, but, again, they don’t even know the situation. Again, that’s why the tennis media sucks. They don’t even know. It took me six minutes to walk to a bathroom. It takes me three to four minutes to take off my sweaty socks and put dry socks on, change out my orthotics to a different pair of shoes and then re-tie those shoes. At the US Open, I changed against Basilashvili super quick in two minutes and he was complaining and I was like, “Dude, what do you want me to do?’ Like who the f–k are you to complain? You’re just complaining because Murray complained and it’s the cool thing to do now.”

Part of me is salty, but there’s truth to both sides. If he’s taking a bathroom break and he’s not changing then there is no excuse.

A career is made up of decisions. What’s the best decision you’ve made?

The best was to leave [the USTA national training center in] Orlando and start doing things independently. Working with Jay Berger, paying more of my own bills, because I was having the USTA coach me. Then I was spending my own money, so you want to make the most of it, make sure you get the right guy. You don’t want to take any shortcuts. You just become a professional a lot quicker and my only regret is not doing that earlier. That’s not a dig on the USTA. If it weren’t for them I wouldn’t have even been in that position.

Few ATP guys are inspired by WTA players. You’ve spoken glowingly about Venus.

She’s an absolute badass. I learned more from her than any other active player. She’s brilliant – a fierce competitor. She works extremely differently than anyone else. The great ones think differently. And she’s hilarious – she has a great sense of humor. I enjoy being around her and learning from her.

She seems to be in her own dimension. How does her mind work?

She’s insanely competitive – as fierce as there’s ever been. Absolutely cannot tolerate losing – it makes her sick to think about it. She doesn’t even reflect on her wins. She stays in the moment. If it weren’t for Serena she’d be the greatest woman player of all time. Then again, there’s no Serena without Venus. So you almost have to give it to them both.

http://www.insidetennis.com/2021/10/raw ... ly-opelka/

by ti-amie

by Fastbackss A lot to digest from that Opelka interview. Appreciate his candor.

One thing I think will get lost was his comments on the usta - I think that ties through to the beginning of the program on why US is behind

by ponchi101 Indeed interesting, and a lot to talk about.
For example: Don't compare us to Sampras and Agassi. Then, who do we compare you too? Henman? Goran?
Every single french player gets compared to Noah (which is not that tough a comparison). Every Aussie is compared to the Great Generation. It is just part of the game, If you are an American, you get compared to Sampras, Agassi, Connors, Mac, etc. That's the deal when you come from a country with such history.
Ask any Argentinean soccer player. They do not get compared with Messi only. They immediately get compared with Maradona.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:35 pm Indeed interesting, and a lot to talk about.
For example: Don't compare us to Sampras and Agassi. Then, who do we compare you too? Henman? Goran?
Every single french player gets compared to Noah (which is not that tough a comparison). Every Aussie is compared to the Great Generation. It is just part of the game, If you are an American, you get compared to Sampras, Agassi, Connors, Mac, etc. That's the deal when you come from a country with such history.
Ask any Argentinean soccer player. They do not get compared with Messi only. They immediately get compared with Maradona.

I think he doesn't see the point in comparisons. His energy would be better spent ignoring this stuff if he doesn't like it. It's a normal part of spectator sports.

I didn't want to like him or this story, but I do, both. I like his candor, which doesn't come with a giant side of cluelessness. Although the harsh words about criticism, and his distaste for it, are quite ironic. One thing that's unsaid is that journalists don't get much time with these athletes. Very little access. So it's not all their fault that they aren't finding other stories and angles.

Wish they should have unpacked his friendship with Venus a lot more.

Why is it so surprising to discover an athlete is aware of and appreciates culture? That kind of gawking is lame to me.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:21 pm ...

I think he doesn't see the point in comparisons. His energy would be better spent ignoring this stuff if he doesn't like it. It's a normal part of spectator sports.

I didn't want to like him or this story, but I do, both. I like his candor, which doesn't come with a giant side of cluelessness. Although the harsh words about criticism, and his distaste for it, are quite ironic. One thing that's unsaid is that journalists don't get much time with these athletes. Very little access. So it's not all their fault that they aren't finding other stories and angles.

Wish they should have unpacked his friendship with Venus a lot more.

Why is it so surprising to discover an athlete is aware of and appreciates culture? That kind of gawking is lame to me.

Lendl was into collecting art. Wojtek Fibak too.
I like Reilly. I believe he is a bit off key about the media, but hey, minor detail.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:21 pm ...

I think he doesn't see the point in comparisons. His energy would be better spent ignoring this stuff if he doesn't like it. It's a normal part of spectator sports.

I didn't want to like him or this story, but I do, both. I like his candor, which doesn't come with a giant side of cluelessness. Although the harsh words about criticism, and his distaste for it, are quite ironic. One thing that's unsaid is that journalists don't get much time with these athletes. Very little access. So it's not all their fault that they aren't finding other stories and angles.

Wish they should have unpacked his friendship with Venus a lot more.

Why is it so surprising to discover an athlete is aware of and appreciates culture? That kind of gawking is lame to me.
Lendl was into collecting art. Wojtek Fibak too.
I like Reilly. I believe he is a bit off key about the media, but hey, minor detail.

Same, for now

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by dmforever Just a random question. What do y'all think will be the last year that one of the Big Three will win a slam? Was it this year? Will it be 2022? 2023? I'm just curious what people think.

Kevin

by meganfernandez

dmforever wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:19 pm Just a random question. What do y'all think will be the last year that one of the Big Three will win a slam? Was it this year? Will it be 2022? 2023? I'm just curious what people think.

Kevin

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:26 pm 2021

We assume Novak will win more, but it's not a given. They have made it look easy, but it won't get easier. If he doesn't go to Australia because of the vaccine, you just don't know how that will disrupt things. He was in deep trouble against Tsitsipas in the French final this year, and that's when he was on a mission. It will be really interesting to see where his mind is next year.

Odds are 2023, I think. Djokovic will have a good chance of winning as along as he's playing. I think he'll retire before his game falls off that much. I think he'll lose motivation after he wins one or two more. He'll keep trying until then.

by dmforever

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:28 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:19 pm Just a random question. What do y'all think will be the last year that one of the Big Three will win a slam? Was it this year? Will it be 2022? 2023? I'm just curious what people think.

Kevin

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:26 pm 2021

We assume Novak will win more, but it's not a given. They have made it look easy, but it won't get easier. If he doesn't go to Australia because of the vaccine, you just don't know how that will disrupt things. He was in deep trouble against Tsitsipas in the French final this year, and that's when he was on a mission. It will be really interesting to see where his mind is next year.

Odds are 2023, I think. Djokovic will have a good chance of winning as along as he's playing. I think he'll retire before his game falls off that much. I think he'll lose motivation after he wins one or two more. He'll keep trying until then.

I'm confused. Do you think it's 2021 or 2023? I totally hear you about Novak. When he falls off, he falls off. I actually don't think he'll win Australia even if he goes. I think that his best chance now is at Wimbledon. What about Rafa at RG next year?

Kevin

by meganfernandez

dmforever wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:41 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:28 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:19 pm Just a random question. What do y'all think will be the last year that one of the Big Three will win a slam? Was it this year? Will it be 2022? 2023? I'm just curious what people think.

Kevin

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:26 pm 2021

We assume Novak will win more, but it's not a given. They have made it look easy, but it won't get easier. If he doesn't go to Australia because of the vaccine, you just don't know how that will disrupt things. He was in deep trouble against Tsitsipas in the French final this year, and that's when he was on a mission. It will be really interesting to see where his mind is next year.

Odds are 2023, I think. Djokovic will have a good chance of winning as along as he's playing. I think he'll retire before his game falls off that much. I think he'll lose motivation after he wins one or two more. He'll keep trying until then.

I'm confused. Do you think it's 2021 or 2023? I totally hear you about Novak. When he falls off, he falls off. I actually don't think he'll win Australia even if he goes. I think that his best chance now is at Wimbledon. What about Rafa at RG next year?

Kevin

My real answer is 2023. But it wouldn't surprise me if it was 2021! If Rafa is healthy enough to enter RG next year, he'll be my pick to win. I think he is just as motivated to get 21 as Novak is. Who knows what the Golden Slam quest took out of Novak. We have yet to learn! It will be an interesting story line for the first half of 2022. Bold of you to pick against Novak for Aussie 2022, if he plays. Why do you think he won't win? He was won convincingly the last few years. Well maybe not so convincingly against Thiem.

by dmforever

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:51 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:41 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:28 pm

I'm confused. Do you think it's 2021 or 2023? I totally hear you about Novak. When he falls off, he falls off. I actually don't think he'll win Australia even if he goes. I think that his best chance now is at Wimbledon. What about Rafa at RG next year?

Kevin
My real answer is 2023. But it wouldn't surprise me if it was 2021! If Rafa is healthy enough to enter RG next year, he'll be my pick to win. I think he is just as motivated to get 21 as Novak is. Who knows what the Golden Slam quest took out of Novak. We have yet to learn! It will be an interesting story line for the first half of 2022. Bold of you to pick against Novak for Aussie 2022, if he plays. Why do you think he won't win? He was won convincingly the last few years. Well maybe not so convincingly against Thiem.

Both times that he had amazing streaks, he fell off, and he fell off big time. And as you said, he's not getting younger, and the "young" guys are getting better. And also as you hinted at, I think that 2021 took a lot out of him. I don't think he'll play again this year, and that includes the year end championships. I don't see him beating Medvedev on hard courts again, and I'm not sure he could beat 3 good players in a row on hard courts anymore. He could win Australia if Medvedev, Tsitsipas and (blech) Zverev (and maybe Thiem) all lost early, but I think it's more likely that that won't happen.

Kevin

by mick1303 I'm wondering if there is a specific thread for discussing availability of tennis results on the Internet. Or this is the place for generic stuff?

ATP site usually posts the results more or less reliable, but with Istanbul-II they dropped the ball (( The link on their site points again to the results of Istabul-I, which was in January...

by dmforever

mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:16 pm I'm wondering if there is a specific thread for discussing availability of tennis results on the Internet. Or this is the place for generic stuff?

ATP site usually posts the results more or less reliable, but with Istanbul-II they dropped the ball (( The link on their site points again to the results of Istabul-I, which was in January...

I have often wondered the same thing. I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but I always use this site for scores. It has up to the second scores for women's and men's, singles and doubles, regular tour and challenger events too. It's awesome.

www.flashscore.com/tennis

I think it might be a betting website, but I don't use it for that.

Kevin

by ti-amie

mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:16 pm I'm wondering if there is a specific thread for discussing availability of tennis results on the Internet. Or this is the place for generic stuff?

ATP site usually posts the results more or less reliable, but with Istanbul-II they dropped the ball (( The link on their site points again to the results of Istabul-I, which was in January...

For some reason both tours don't seem to be that invested in making it easy to find current results.There was a time, and not that long ago, that both tours sent out regular emails with results and orders of play. I forget which tour stopped first. The situation now is as you describe it Mick. Unless you follow a bunch of tennis related accounts on Twitter (I don't know about IG) you would have no idea what is going on, and most of those accounts don't regularly post results, not even the tournament related accounts. The websites are run by a bunch of preschoolers and neither tour seems to care. Gambling sites seem to be the best place and not everyone wants to use those.

Our sport is the worst when it comes to basic information. Even if someone here wanted to regularly post results it would be very hard to do.

by mick1303

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:33 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:16 pm I'm wondering if there is a specific thread for discussing availability of tennis results on the Internet. Or this is the place for generic stuff?

ATP site usually posts the results more or less reliable, but with Istanbul-II they dropped the ball (( The link on their site points again to the results of Istabul-I, which was in January...
For some reason both tours don't seem to be that invested in making it easy to find current results.There was a time, and not that long ago, that both tours sent out regular emails with results and orders of play. I forget which tour stopped first. The situation now is as you describe it Mick. Unless you follow a bunch of tennis related accounts on Twitter (I don't know about IG) you would have no idea what is going on, and most of those accounts don't regularly post results, not even the tournament related accounts. The websites are run by a bunch of preschoolers and neither tour seems to care. Gambling sites seem to be the best place and not everyone wants to use those.

Our sport is the worst when it comes to basic information. Even if someone here wanted to regularly post results it would be very hard to do.

I have additional problem in that I'm not just looking them up, but importing to my database (for weighted ranking purpose).
Therefore I need it in some format, where I can create a parser. I'm no genius and can only do so much, therefore if it is a picture or some complex hypertext - it is too complicated for me. The best period was when ITF posted the results. They still do, but only for futures and below - and the presentation in the form of a draw is very convoluted. Until recently I was using SteveGTennis site. But something happened - they are not updating the results on the mens side for several weeks already. Hence I have to use ATP site.

by ponchi101 This topic is fine, Mick.

---0---
I say the last Slam winner of the big 3 will be Novak, in 2023. He fell short of the USO this year but that one has been his second most difficult slam (if you say RG is #1, a strange call as that has simply been monopolized by Rafa) but the rest of the year was solid.
BTW. He of course had a great year. But he has won 4 tournaments, 3 of then Slams. It is not the same as the years in which Roger won 3 slam, but there was no pressure to win the Grand Slam because he was denied RG.
I say Novak has still two more in him. Rafa, one more RG.

by Deuce Djokovic will never win another Major because he'll never get vaccinated, and from 2022 going forward, all officially sanctioned ATP and WTA events, as well as the 4 Majors, will require that all players are up to date on their vaccinations against COVID-19.

Nice thought, isn't it?

Oh... and Nadal will win another 2 Roland Garros.

by atlpam

mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:16 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:33 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:16 pm I'm wondering if there is a specific thread for discussing availability of tennis results on the Internet. Or this is the place for generic stuff?

ATP site usually posts the results more or less reliable, but with Istanbul-II they dropped the ball (( The link on their site points again to the results of Istabul-I, which was in January...
For some reason both tours don't seem to be that invested in making it easy to find current results.There was a time, and not that long ago, that both tours sent out regular emails with results and orders of play. I forget which tour stopped first. The situation now is as you describe it Mick. Unless you follow a bunch of tennis related accounts on Twitter (I don't know about IG) you would have no idea what is going on, and most of those accounts don't regularly post results, not even the tournament related accounts. The websites are run by a bunch of preschoolers and neither tour seems to care. Gambling sites seem to be the best place and not everyone wants to use those.

Our sport is the worst when it comes to basic information. Even if someone here wanted to regularly post results it would be very hard to do.
I have additional problem in that I'm not just looking them up, but importing to my database (for weighted ranking purpose).
Therefore I need it in some format, where I can create a parser. I'm no genius and can only do so much, therefore if it is a picture or some complex hypertext - it is too complicated for me. The best period was when ITF posted the results. They still do, but only for futures and below - and the presentation in the form of a draw is very convoluted. Until recently I was using SteveGTennis site. But something happened - they are not updating the results on the mens side for several weeks already. Hence I have to use ATP site.

I like the following site for weekly tournament draws & results.
https://www.coretennis.net/

by dave g TAT.com (version 1.0) used to have a link to this website https://www.livescore.in/tennis/ , which contains scores of ongoing matches. It is what I use.

by mmmm8

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:33 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:16 pm I'm wondering if there is a specific thread for discussing availability of tennis results on the Internet. Or this is the place for generic stuff?

ATP site usually posts the results more or less reliable, but with Istanbul-II they dropped the ball (( The link on their site points again to the results of Istabul-I, which was in January...
For some reason both tours don't seem to be that invested in making it easy to find current results.There was a time, and not that long ago, that both tours sent out regular emails with results and orders of play. I forget which tour stopped first. The situation now is as you describe it Mick. Unless you follow a bunch of tennis related accounts on Twitter (I don't know about IG) you would have no idea what is going on, and most of those accounts don't regularly post results, not even the tournament related accounts. The websites are run by a bunch of preschoolers and neither tour seems to care. Gambling sites seem to be the best place and not everyone wants to use those.

Our sport is the worst when it comes to basic information. Even if someone here wanted to regularly post results it would be very hard to do.

Do we know for sure they stopped and not that we're off the mailing list? I stopped getting them when our TAT1.0 email addresses went dead.

I always use www.livescore.com, have been for probably 15 years!

by Ribbons I have been reading about the 1908 London Olympics for a side project, and it's a gift that keeps giving. To quote one source, they were "wet, long-winded, and controversial." According to another source, Germany was the only country not hacked off at the UK by the end.

The official report is at https://olympic-museum.de/o-reports/oly ... t-1908.php, with the chapter on tennis starting on page 314. Regarding the final, it was noted that "the contrast between the attendance of spectators on this occasion and the crowd that went to see the match for the amateur championship was very marked[.] The latter match was somewhat of a fiasco, and the fear of seeing another display of the kind probably accounted for the absence of many familiar faces."

Regarding the silver medalist's performance in the final: "He did not win a set, but he ought to have secured the first set, and he never looked like a hopeless loser at any stage of the second or third."

Finally, about the gold medalist, quoting from the _National Review_: "In practically every respect except service Mr. Gould is a beautiful player; it would stamp him as a greater player still if he became a beautiful server, and not only, as he is now, a terribly effective one."

by 3mlm

Ribbons wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:58 am I have been reading about the 1908 London Olympics for a side project, and it's a gift that keeps giving. To quote one source, they were "wet, long-winded, and controversial." According to another source, Germany was the only country not hacked off at the UK by the end.

The official report is at https://olympic-museum.de/o-reports/oly ... t-1908.php, with the chapter on tennis starting on page 314. Regarding the final, it was noted that "the contrast between the attendance of spectators on this occasion and the crowd that went to see the match for the amateur championship was very marked[.] The latter match was somewhat of a fiasco, and the fear of seeing another display of the kind probably accounted for the absence of many familiar faces."

Regarding the silver medalist's performance in the final: "He did not win a set, but he ought to have secured the first set, and he never looked like a hopeless loser at any stage of the second or third."

Finally, about the gold medalist, quoting from the _National Review_: "In practically every respect except service Mr. Gould is a beautiful player; it would stamp him as a greater player still if he became a beautiful server, and not only, as he is now, a terribly effective one."

That commentator seemed to think that "beautiful" form was as important as results.

by Deuce

Ribbons wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:58 am I have been reading about the 1908 London Olympics for a side project, and it's a gift that keeps giving. To quote one source, they were "wet, long-winded, and controversial." According to another source, Germany was the only country not hacked off at the UK by the end.

The official report is at https://olympic-museum.de/o-reports/oly ... t-1908.php, with the chapter on tennis starting on page 314. Regarding the final, it was noted that "the contrast between the attendance of spectators on this occasion and the crowd that went to see the match for the amateur championship was very marked[.] The latter match was somewhat of a fiasco, and the fear of seeing another display of the kind probably accounted for the absence of many familiar faces."

Regarding the silver medalist's performance in the final: "He did not win a set, but he ought to have secured the first set, and he never looked like a hopeless loser at any stage of the second or third."

Finally, about the gold medalist, quoting from the _National Review_: "In practically every respect except service Mr. Gould is a beautiful player; it would stamp him as a greater player still if he became a beautiful server, and not only, as he is now, a terribly effective one."

^ This is yet another reminder of how much the English language has declined over the years.
It held on for a longer while in Great Britain, but has been in decline there, as well, for a number of years now...

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:53 pm Raw, Real and Reilly – Meet the No. 1 Player in America: Badass Reilly Opelka

His manager and agent and whatever any image consultant or PR firm they hired in recent years should all get fat Christmas bonuses this year. I'm still not a fan, but money well spent sculpting an image that people seem to like, and they deserve even more than they've gotten.

by meganfernandez

dave g wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:01 am TAT.com (version 1.0) used to have a link to this website https://www.livescore.in/tennis/ , which contains scores of ongoing matches. It is what I use.

I use an app called Tennis Live and live it a lot.

by ti-amie

Anyone going to argue with this?

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:59 am Anyone going to argue with this?

Easily one of the greatest, but the greatest? Wouldn't commit to that without looking at other years. There are times in the late 80s to mid 90s where there is crossover so there's potential for years with Sampras, Agassi, Courier, Chang, Edberg, Becker and Ivanisevic, but also Lendl and McEnroe. I'd think late 90s and early 2000s has similar potential.

And I think there's a decent chance that there is a year or three where every participant is a Grand Slam winner. Is this 2009 year better than that just because it has the Big 4? I'm sure opinions on that will vary.

by mick1303 In 1992 - All 8 participants were Grand Slam winners (some won their Slams later): Becker, Sampras, Ivanisevic, Courier, Edberg, Krajicek, Chang, Korda

by ponchi101 If you go by total number of slams: 2009 was indeed great, with 64.
But Mick's point is very good. In 1992 all were Slam champions. The 2009 class had three non-slammers.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I have seen that shot at local level. The guy at the net did not crush the smash, the guy at the back ran it down and did crush his. And made it.
This one is still amazing.

by Suliso There is a near identical by Roger playing Roddick in his early career and he did make it.

by JazzNU

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:48 pm There is a near identical by Roger playing Roddick in his early career and he did make it.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:46 pm If you go by total number of slams: 2009 was indeed great, with 64.
But Mick's point is very good. In 1992 all were Slam champions. The 2009 class had three non-slammers.

i'd probably go with 1992. The 2009 photo is all because of 3 people, and three of them aren't' contributing at all.

by ti-amie If you look at the second clip Monfils did land the shot.

by Suliso Yes, but not inside the court.

by Deuce Leylah is done for the season, a reliable source has told me. Not sure about Fed Cup coming up soon (I forgot to ask

).

No injury - just time to relax physically and mentally after a rather intense month and a half, both on and off the court, with all the attention, playing lots of matches (singles and doubles)...
She deserves to shut it down and just be a 19 year old kid for a while.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:03 am Leylah is done for the season, a reliable source has told me. Not sure about Fed Cup coming up soon (I forgot to ask ).

No injury - just time to relax physically and mentally after a rather intense month and a half, both on and off the court, with all the attention, playing lots of matches (singles and doubles)...
She deserves to shut it down and just be a 19 year old kid for a while.

Good choice. She deserves it.

by ti-amie Never, ever do polls on Tennis Twitter. Some of these answers are hysterical and fall into the "who is my favorite" category.

by ponchi101 Serve: Errani

by ti-amie It's kind of a frivolous question but in our world who is going to be the next woman ordained as the "face of the WTA". Will it be Paula Badosa, Emma Raducanu, or continue to be Naomi Osaka?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course but with our discussion in the other thread about Ons not being "marketable" the way other players have been. Should it be someone who has won a Slam, several WTA 1000's or is just a pretty face?

by Suliso That will be decided by marketing people, I think. Raducanu has a better chance of dethroning Osaka because of wider geographical appeal. Badosa is more limited in this sense, but if she wins Slams and the other two fade it could happen.

by ponchi101 Long detour.
Remember a few months ago, we were talking about young newcomers and we did have a bit of talk about Badosa. And then, poof!, she vanished. We talked about change of coach, new BF, too many changes, etc, but she was gone.
And today, she plays in her biggest final ever. if she wins, she will be "the new face of the WTA".
For about 5 days.
It will really be difficult to find that new, special player. It is not only Badosa that is unexpected at the IW final. The four semifinalists are nowhere near the top ten. The big players were gone early. And with players skipping tournaments left and right, both because of the pandemic and because of personal reasons, who knows who can take that title. Raducanu was/is perfect for that, and I still say that she has a very good career ahead of her simply because of the history of teenage Slam winners, but her first tournament as a big star did not go well.
All I can say with a straight face is what I have said for the last two three years: welcome to absolute parity. The days of Chris, Martina, Steffi and Serena are over. I will give Naomi still the upper hand because she already has four slams and when she plays, she is very good (on hard courts) but one "WTA FACE" is going to be hard to find.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:20 am It's kind of a frivolous question but in our world who is going to be the next woman ordained as the "face of the WTA". Will it be Paula Badosa, Emma Raducanu, or continue to be Naomi Osaka?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course but with our discussion in the other thread about Ons not being "marketable" the way other players have been. Should it be someone who has won a Slam, several WTA 1000's or is just a pretty face?

I'l do D, none of the above. But if forced to pick one listed, I'd stick with Naomi or go with Paula. I see Paula's geographical reach as much greater than Emma.

And I still strongly object to comments about Ons' looks and think most haven't bothered to see what she looks like off court. But I especially object to categorizing her with homely Henin. She doesn't have that good looking husband by accident.

by Suliso Did you take into account that Raducanu might be able to cover Chinese market?

by skatingfan

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:21 pm Did you take into account that Raducanu might be able to cover Chinese market?

She speaks Mandarin.

by player+29

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:05 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:20 am It's kind of a frivolous question but in our world who is going to be the next woman ordained as the "face of the WTA". Will it be Paula Badosa, Emma Raducanu, or continue to be Naomi Osaka?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course but with our discussion in the other thread about Ons not being "marketable" the way other players have been. Should it be someone who has won a Slam, several WTA 1000's or is just a pretty face?
I'l do D, none of the above. But if forced to pick one listed, I'd stick with Naomi or go with Paula. I see Paula's geographical reach as much greater than Emma.

And I still strongly object to comments about Ons' looks and think most haven't bothered to see what she looks like off court. But I especially object to categorizing her with homely Henin. She doesn't have that good looking husband by accident.

I agree about Ons. Just looked her up she is quite beautiful on her wedding day!

by ti-amie

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:21 pm Did you take into account that Raducanu might be able to cover Chinese market?

skatingfan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:27 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:21 pm Did you take into account that Raducanu might be able to cover Chinese market?
She speaks Mandarin.

Steve Simon is making noises about reviving the Asian (Chinese) swing.

by JazzNU

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:21 pm Did you take into account that Raducanu might be able to cover Chinese market?

Yes. I like Paula's reach more.

And being able to cover the Chinese market isn't exactly the be all and end all in tennis. I personally wouldn't say Li Na was ever the face of the WTA, wouldn't even go so far as to say she was the Top 3. Can Emma potentially help the tennis interest in China increase? Let's hope so, but that's as far as I'd take that thread right now.

Also, American media is not gaga over Emma. That's a British thing, and maybe a Canadian thing. So if she's going to penetrate here, she'll need to do more than the one run.

As I have stated for a few months now, Paula has been getting a lot of attention, over and above what her results warrant, and her run at Indian Wells will help the media already quite favorable towards her to continue hyping her. So I'll stick with Paula if I'm choosing between her and Emma, and it's an easy choice to me.

by ti-amie Rankings of a different kind.

Career Prize Money Rankings as of 10/14/21 - WTA

http://wtafiles.wtatennis.com/pdf/ranki ... _Money.pdf

by ti-amie Some surprises from the earnings list:

Sveta in the top ten.

Osaka #21

Bepa #28

Seles still on the list at #30

Hsieh #56

Schnyder # 66

I guess you can argue about the value of money then and now but it's pretty obvious why of all sports tennis is considered the best for women in terms of earnings.

by JazzNU Sveta and Hsieh are old (in tennis terms). Sveta playing at a very high level for a very long time and Hsieh playing constantly with few injuries in both singles and doubles adds up. They turned pro near when Sharapova did. Consider that Caro and Aga didn't turn pro for probably 4-5 years after Sveta did and are retired now for comparison.

by JazzNU Story on Holger Rune from earlier this year (original discussion in rankings thread)

ATP is investigating rising star for yelling gay slurs during a match

by Fastbackss

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:42 pm

And being able to cover the Chinese market isn't exactly the be all and end all in tennis. I personally wouldn't say Li Na was ever the face of the WTA, wouldn't even go so far as to say she was the Top 3. Can Emma potentially help the tennis interest in China increase? Let's hope so, but that's as far as I'd take that thread right now.

.

There were some other "reasons" as to why Li Na didn't move the needle in China...plenty of articles state how the government wasn't pleased with her.

And if the government isn't behind it neither are the people.

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:20 pm Story on Holger Rune from earlier this year (original discussion in rankings thread)

ATP is investigating rising star for yelling gay slurs during a match

Wow.

by Suliso Li Na couldn't "cover" the European or American market as well. Raducanu as a native English speaker can. All that is assuming she doesn't fade like Ostapenko did after her surprise GS title run.

by Suliso

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:20 pm Story on Holger Rune from earlier this year (original discussion in rankings thread)

ATP is investigating rising star for yelling gay slurs during a match

Disappointed to hear that about a potential future star...

by JazzNU

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:27 pm
There were some other "reasons" as to why Li Na didn't move the needle in China...plenty of articles state how the government wasn't pleased with her.

And if the government isn't behind it neither are the people.

Okay, but unless you're saying that is what held Li Na back from becoming one of the faces of the WTA, officially with the tour or unofficially through non-Chinese global tennis media, then that wasn't my point. My focus isn't on moving the needle in China, but it seems like @suliso thinks that's important. I don't personally think it's a major factor at the moment.

by JazzNU

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:42 pm Li Na couldn't "cover" the European or American market as well. Raducanu as a native English speaker can. All that is assuming she doesn't fade like Ostapenko did after her surprise GS title run.

Same could be said of Badosa.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Final tweets of the above exchange: ( I couldn't figure out which tweets to delete to shorten the number of URL's)

ETA: They're still at it.

by mmmm8 Tennis media is very incestuous (ITWA is a prime example) and I think it's accurate to say players not from North America or Western Europe get unequal coverage.

That doesn't negate the fact that Djokovic sat down with a war criminal.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU What was the initial point from the now missing tweet?

by dmforever I'm not sure where to put this. Sorry if this isn't it and please feel free to move this. I have a friend in Brazil who calls himself and intermediate player. I'm not exactly sure what that means. He asked me what a good tennis racket would be for him. Because of back stuff I had to stop playing about 6 years ago and so I don't follow equipment anymore. Could some of you just give me a recommendation or two? I told him that there is no one "best" racket and a lot depends on what you learned on and your style of play, but he still wants a recommendation. Thanks in advance.

Kevin

by Deuce You gave him the only accurate response, as far as I'm concerned. The best racquet is the one which feels and performs the best for the individual - and that can only be determined by the individual him/her self.
Elements like flex, balance, weight, swingweight, etc. are very personal things - not to mention strings and string tension.
What feels great and performs great for me may feel terrible and perform terribly for someone else - even someone of the same ability level - and vice-versa.

It's a lot like food, really... "Hey - buy this, it tastes great." ... "Aak!! (spit) - it's awful!"
It's all about personal preference - with the emphasis on personal.
This is why the great majority of pro players don't change racquets - the racquet company simply paints their racquets to look like the model that the company wants to sell. When they find a racquet that feels right, they don't change - many of them are using the same model they used coming up in Juniors (painted to look like a current model - which is a blatantly dishonest business practice, but I digress).
This has been the case with pro racquets since the early 1990s. Prior to that, racquet models lasted much longer on the market, and so there was no reason to re-paint them. These days, models last about 2 years on the market before they're inevitably replaced with something which promises "more power and control" - which, if true over the years, would mean that we'd all be able to hit the ball through the fence, and be able to hit a dime on the court whenever we wish.

Perhaps this discussion could be put in the 'Equipment - Racquets/Strings' section.

.

by ponchi101

dmforever wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:31 am I'm not sure where to put this. Sorry if this isn't it and please feel free to move this. I have a friend in Brazil who calls himself and intermediate player. I'm not exactly sure what that means. He asked me what a good tennis racket would be for him. Because of back stuff I had to stop playing about 6 years ago and so I don't follow equipment anymore. Could some of you just give me a recommendation or two? I told him that there is no one "best" racket and a lot depends on what you learned on and your style of play, but he still wants a recommendation. Thanks in advance.

Kevin

I will stick to Wilson because I have not tried other racquets lately.
For intermediate, I would give the CLASH line a try. They are soft and have decent power. I tried one but it was strung with very poor strings and that did not help.
BURNS are also good.
I would stay away from Babolats. They are GREAT racquets but you need a lot of skill to control all that power. GREAT here is just a consensus; I personally don't think anything good about them, but I guess Rafa and Mugu and the 50 other top pros that use them will laugh at me.
Stay away from the Wilson Pro Staffs. Great racquets, in the hands of pros. In our clumsy claws, he will need to accelerate way faster than what an intermediate can.
I would tell him to focus less on the racquet and more on the strings. A great racquet with bad strings is a bad racquet (what happen to me and that CLASH I tried). A moderate racquet with really good strings will be a much better choice always.

Yonexes are also high skill racquets. No matter what they say, there is not a single Yonex not designed for Martina Navratilova at her prime. Awesome, but I don't know if the new ones come with more power (they were famous for fabulous controls, zero power by themselves).

by dmforever

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:49 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:31 am I'm not sure where to put this. Sorry if this isn't it and please feel free to move this. I have a friend in Brazil who calls himself and intermediate player. I'm not exactly sure what that means. He asked me what a good tennis racket would be for him. Because of back stuff I had to stop playing about 6 years ago and so I don't follow equipment anymore. Could some of you just give me a recommendation or two? I told him that there is no one "best" racket and a lot depends on what you learned on and your style of play, but he still wants a recommendation. Thanks in advance.

Kevin
I will stick to Wilson because I have not tried other racquets lately.
For intermediate, I would give the CLASH line a try. They are soft and have decent power. I tried one but it was strung with very poor strings and that did not help.
BURNS are also good.
I would stay away from Babolats. They are GREAT racquets but you need a lot of skill to control all that power. GREAT here is just a consensus; I personally don't think anything good about them, but I guess Rafa and Mugu and the 50 other top pros that use them will laugh at me.
Stay away from the Wilson Pro Staffs. Great racquets, in the hands of pros. In our clumsy claws, he will need to accelerate way faster than what an intermediate can.
I would tell him to focus less on the racquet and more on the strings. A great racquet with bad strings is a bad racquet (what happen to me and that CLASH I tried). A moderate racquet with really good strings will be a much better choice always.

Yonexes are also high skill racquets. No matter what they say, there is not a single Yonex not designed for Martina Navratilova at her prime. Awesome, but I don't know if the new ones come with more power (they were famous for fabulous controls, zero power by themselves).

Thanks. That's super helpful. It also made me laugh because I played with...a Wilson Pro Staff.

Kevin

by ponchi101

dmforever wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:54 pm ...

Thanks. That's super helpful. It also made me laugh because I played with...a Wilson Pro Staff.

Kevin

I played all my youth with Pro Staff's, the original 6.0 and then the Classic 6.1 (95 sqin). And I don't think I could play with them again, although I would love to give one of the old 6.1's a try.
Then again, I wonder what your friend means by intermediate. The difference from a 4.0 in the NTRP and a 5.0 is where I make the break between intermediate and advanced.
BTW. The new Pro Staff V13 looks super nice. But I don't know if your friend wants to go that way, and pay that kind of money.

by JazzNU Not sure where to put this

by ponchi101 I gather the Aussie Open will not reveal whether Australia will let him in or not.

by JazzNU Another Bedene here. If these guys ever get hooked with repaying the investments that were put into their training, they are in big trouble. If we see a few too many switches, they really might start demanding that.

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:22 pm I gather the Aussie Open will not reveal whether Australia will let him in or not.

This isn't up to the Australian Open but to the Victoria government and they're very strict on this.

by JazzNU Another day, another tennis article Google puts in my face to see if it is any interest to me.

It's apparently the week to air grievances in the Fognini household because there's one article featuring quotes from Flavia about how she's not a fan of the balance in the WTA and doesn't think it's good for tennis. That in her day some young girl playing from qualifying has no chance to win a Grand Slam, that top players would've put an end to her before that. Says there's something missing and makes tennis more difficult to sell.

And then in a second article, Fabio is calling out Sinner and saying he was completely wrong to not represent Italy at the Olympics and that bad decisions such as that have consequences. And there's a former Italian Davis Cup team captain (Barrazutti is the name I think) calling him out as well, wondering about his values.

by mmmm8 Does Flavia remember why she won a Slam? Vinci was unseeded.

by JazzNU This won't come as a big shock around here since @ponchi let us know earlier in the year that she goes by Cami, but Maria Camila Osorio Serrano appears to now be going by Camila Osorio. In Indian Wells, her name was listed as longer version and I just happened to have checked her WTA page and IG the other day, and it was still that. And her name in this week's written draw is also still in the longer form. So I believe the change occurred this week.

https://www.wtatennis.com/players/32589 ... io-serrano

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:43 pm Another day, another tennis article Google puts in my face to see if it is any interest to me.

It's apparently the week to air grievances in the Fognini household because there's one article featuring quotes from Flavia about how she's not a fan of the balance in the WTA and doesn't think it's good for tennis. That in her day some young girl playing from qualifying has no chance to win a Grand Slam, that top players would've put an end to her before that. Says there's something missing and makes tennis more difficult to sell.

And then in a second article, Fabio is calling out Sinner and saying he was completely wrong to not represent Italy at the Olympics and that bad decisions such as that have consequences. And there's a former Italian Davis Cup team captain (Barrazutti is the name I think) calling him out as well, wondering about his values.

Mmmm8 is right but so is Flavia.

by JTContinental Lol at “in her day” when she retired like five years ago.

by JazzNU

JTContinental wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:50 pm Lol at “in her day” when she retired like five years ago.

Hilarious. I think her wording was "in my time."

by ponchi101 About Maria Camila. That is a bit odd. Colombians are very proud of using their full names. Something like John Jairo Sarmiento Barrangones, until there are no more spaces in the online application form.
But by now she is getting the Cami tag back home. BTW: Camila and Camilo are very popular names.

by Suliso Fabiola Zuluaga also used only that. How about other Colombian players. Can't think of another one now...

by JazzNU I'm thinking either her or her team is thinking of how she'll be marketing herself in general, not just in Colombia. Though three initial names are common enough, so I assume this is what she just thought was best. She's super cute, I could easily see her getting attention from more companies outside of Colombia if she starts getting more results.

Other Colombian players I can think of use a mix. Alejandro Falla, Santiago Giraldo, and the doubles pair of Cabal and Farah (which I believe is Juan Sebastian and Robert, respectively). Struggling to come up with another WTA player.

by Deuce

JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:43 pm And then in a second article, Fabio is calling out Sinner and saying he was completely wrong to not represent Italy at the Olympics and that bad decisions such as that have consequences. And there's a former Italian Davis Cup team captain (Barrazutti is the name I think) calling him out as well, wondering about his values.

Of course, Fabio has a reputation for doing and saying stupid things. This qualifies.
You don't criticize anyone for deciding not to go to an Olympics - and a crowded Olympic village - in the middle of a global health emergency/pandemic.
Were there no pandemic to be concerned about, I'd say fine - feel free to criticize someone for not representing your country at the Olympics.
But if a person chooses to keep him/her self safe and to not go to the Olympics in the middle of an unpredictable pandemic, criticizing them is simply foolish.
This isn't Fabio's first foray into the realm of idiocy - nor will it be his last, surely.

by ti-amie

Should I ask if Bouchard had any similar problems re funding from TC?

by Deuce From what I know, Tennis Canada wanted to take Leylah onboard at one point (after she showed promise on the international Junior scene), but they wanted to have full control over her. Leylah's dad would not give them that control - which is understandable, as A) she was doing well without Tennis Canada, and B) it's difficult for a father to give control of his daughter over to a nameless entity.
Yes, Tennis Canada gave them some money, which they used to pay some independent coaches, etc., and I suppose she has received some 'coaching' help from them in the form of Nathalie Tauziat, namely with her Fed Cup participations, but also a bit outside of that environment, I believe.

In a related comment, it doesn't look like Tennis Canada will be doing any sort of 'official congratulations' for Leylah regarding her U.S. Open success. They did hold an official 'congratulations' for Andreescu when she won the U.S. Open, and also for Genie when she made the Final of Wimbledon in 2014.
Now, they're sort of using the pandemic as a reason for not doing anything for Leylah - and I suppose it's a legitimate reason. But I get the sense that the true reason they won't do anything for Leylah is because she is not a product of their system - and so recognizing her achievement would be like them saying that one can achieve this success without any help from them - and they probably don't want to remind people of that.

As far as Louis Borfiga goes... he's a nice man - very down to Earth. A little more than 2 years ago, I asked him where he thought Andreescu will be in 3 years. He said "Oh, she'll be #1 or #2 in the world for sure." Then I asked him where he thought Leylah would be in 3 years. He said "Around #50, maybe."
I told him that in 3 years from then, Andreescu will be around #30 - #40 in the world, and that Leylah will be ranked ahead of her.
At this point, my prediction looks more accurate than his.

by ti-amie Ash Barty done for season, won't defend her WTA Finals title

Associated Press
October 22, 2021, 7:45 PM

BRISBANE -- World No. 1-ranked Ash Barty won't defend her season-ending WTA Finals title and is done for the year due to continuing COVID-19 travel and quarantine restrictions.

"I wanted to let everyone know that I won't be competing in any further tournaments in 2021, including the WTA Finals in Mexico," Barty said in a statement on Saturday. "It was a difficult decision but I need to prioritize my body and my recovery from our 2021 season."

Barty hasn't played since the U.S. Open in September and says her focus now is on preparing for another attempt at winning her home Australian Open in Melbourne in January.

The 25-year-old Barty won five titles this season, including a second major at Wimbledon in July, and is assured of ending as year-end No. 1.

Barty won the WTA Finals in Shenzhen, China in 2019 before last year's edition was not played because of the pandemic.

She had to undergo two weeks of quarantine when she returned to her Brisbane home in September after the U.S. Open and doesn't want to do the same again if she travels to the relocated WTA Finals in Guadalajara, Mexico from Nov. 10-17.

"With ongoing challenges of traveling back to Queensland and quarantine requirements, I am not willing to compromise my preparation for January," Barty said.

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https://www.sportsnet.ca/tennis/article ... als-title/

by ashkor87 Djoko playing Paris is itself a sign he intends to skip the AO..seems to be padding his lead in the rankings in case he loses all his AO points?

by ponchi101 Hadn't thought of that, but makes sense. I really don't think that he will skip it unless he misses some deadlines and finds out too late that he can't go, but if he really decides not to get vaccinated, then this move is as you say.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:Hadn't thought of that, but makes sense. I really don't think that he will skip it unless he misses some deadlines and finds out too late that he can't go, but if he really decides not to get vaccinated, then this move is as you say.

I think he won’t play it. I think he cares more about his body and health (his views, not mine) and knows he will have other chances for 21. Wimbledon, for instance, unless all tournaments require the vaccine. But in my opinion, the 21 isn't guaranteed. It's not even 90% now, with vaccine mandates potentially looming and the rest of the field getting better. You just never know how things will turn. Rafa wasn't 100% at last year's French - if he's healthy this year, he's the favorite for me there.

Anyway, my money is on Djokovic not bending on the vaccine.

by mick1303 Sorry if this was already discussed here. But what is your opinion on the notion that "Open Era effectively ended"? This is with regard to Australian authorities prohibiting all non-vaccinated players to participate. Shouldn't they remove the "Open" from their title then?

by ponchi101 I have not heard that, but totally untrue. Nobody is prohibiting anybody from participating. They are asking for a regulation that gets easier and easier to comply with.
Heck, if you want to travel to Africa or most of L. America, you need to have a yellow fever vaccine. I see no difference.

by JazzNU

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:15 pm
Anyway, my money is on Djokovic not bending on the vaccine.

I'd place my bet on him getting it, just not before for the Aussie Open.

by JazzNU

by ponchi101 I think he will make a great coach, if he goes that way. A hard worker, and a player that spanned two of the best generations (Sampras/Agassi and the big three). Hope he enjoys his next venture.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:50 pm I think he will make a great coach, if he goes that way. A hard worker, and a player that spanned two of the best generations (Sampras/Agassi and the big three). Hope he enjoys his next venture.

Kind of shocked that he is just now retiring. I would have guessed he retired ages ago, since I don't pay a lot of attention to doubles. Also would have guessed that he's older than 40 and that he made the French semi run a lot longer than 11 years ago.

by mmmm8 I thought he had retired until I had stumbled on his doubles match at the US Open this year. I had looked it up and he had announced he'd retire in Australia earlier this year, but ended up not playing.

----

In slightly related, I saw Xavier Malisse was playing doubles last week!

by JazzNU Maybe people are thinking he's older than he is because you're thinking of him as playing during Agassi/Sampras years? He barely did. Agassi obviously stuck around for a bit, but Jurgen's really more of a contemporary of Roddick and Nalbandian (and let's be honest, Federer), more than Tommy Haas, you know?

I think playing years can run together sometimes, but if you think of Domi and Iveta, you'll do better with realizing he's not that old, just hasn't been in the mix in singles in a long while.

by Suliso Is Jasmine Paolini at 5'3'' (1.60 m) currently the shortest player on WTA tour? Or did I miss someone even smaller?

by ptmcmahon Google leads me to agree with you. CSN is one inch taller.

by 3mlm

Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:55 pm Is Jasmine Paolini at 5'3'' (1.60 m) currently the shortest player on WTA tour? Or did I miss someone even smaller?

Lauren Davis is still on the tour at 5'2" (1.57 m).

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:34 pm Kind of shocked that he is just now retiring. I would have guessed he retired ages ago, since I don't pay a lot of attention to doubles. Also would have guessed that he's older than 40 and that he made the French semi run a lot longer than 11 years ago.

There was Xavier Malisse who 'came out of retirement' (using an old Prince Diablo racquet!) a couple of weeks ago to play doubles with Lloyd Harris (they beat the top seeds on their way to the Semis).

But Tommy Robredo, who turned pro in the last century, will outlast them all.
Tommy's got to be, what, about 52 years old now?!

by Deuce This is nice...

Rafael Nadal Hits With 97 Year Old

.

by 3mlm

Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:32 am
But Tommy Robredo, who turned pro in the last century, will outlast them all.
Tommy's got to be, what, about 52 years old now?!

At 39, Tommy's not even as old as Federer. It just seems like he's older.

by Suliso Argentinian tennis is slowly getting old. Six players in the top 100, but only one (JM Cerundolo) younger than 29.

by ponchi101 Proof that tennis is tied to country wealth. Argentina's economy has been tanking for decades now, and the sole sport that young people can play for a reasonable amount is football.

by ti-amie

by dmforever

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:52 pm

Did Annette beat out Ons for the final spot in the YEC?

Kevin

by Suliso She certainly did.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote:She certainly did.

Has everyone withdrawn who is expected to?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by Suliso Except Barty nobody yet.

by ponchi101 Good to see that both Ons and Annet can joke about it. They are certainly doing it the right way.

by Deuce As I've said before... if I were to construct a female tennis player from scratch, it would pretty much be Ons Jabeur.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:52 am Good to see that both Ons and Annet can joke about it. They are certainly doing it the right way.

Yeah, love that. Adults...

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:09 pm Except Barty nobody yet.

Pretty good chance Ons will get in as an alternate. Is it for sure Kontaveit will even go? She said she is exhausted. If I had to guess who would withdraw, based on no actual information, I'd go with Pliskova and Muguruza.

The field is:
Sabalenka
Krejickova
Pliskova
Sakkari
Swiatek
Muguruza
Badosa
Kontaveit
Alternatives: Jabeur, Osaka, Pavs... but if they don't all go, Mertens and Gauff will be there for doubles, presumably, so they could be alternates, right? Mertens is #15 and Gauff is #17.

by Suliso Of course Kontaveit will go. In fact she's extra eager to do so.

There are no injury rumors as far as I know. I think it's likely everyone goes.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:27 pm Of course Kontaveit will go. In fact she's extra eager to do so.

There are no injury rumors as far as I know. I think it's likely everyone goes.

I think at least one of the top 8 will stay home and start the off-season now. And another one will mistakenly go to Akron instead of Guadalajara.

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:27 pm Of course Kontaveit will go. In fact she's extra eager to do so.

There are no injury rumors as far as I know. I think it's likely everyone goes.

She did mention the fatigue issue, but then she gets a week off, and this is too prestigious. And, with that field, I like her chances as well as anybody else's.
In order of players I would like to win it, she stands at #2 (Mugu is 1). But it is like the rest of the WTA. Not one player that is not likeable.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:37 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:27 pm Of course Kontaveit will go. In fact she's extra eager to do so.

There are no injury rumors as far as I know. I think it's likely everyone goes.
She did mention the fatigue issue, but then she gets a week off, and this is too prestigious. And, with that field, I like her chances as well as anybody else's.
In order of players I would like to win it, she stands at #2 (Mugu is 1). But it is like the rest of the WTA. Not one player that is not likeable.

You're really a masochist, believing Mugu will win this.

I'm a big Mugu fan, too - she's been my favorite player since 2015. But I hardly ever pick her to win. She's so inconsistent. I'm taking Sabalenka.

A week off isn't a lot when you're halfway around the world, and they have to be there a few days early for promotional stuff and adjust to the time zone and altitude. She'll probably go, but it also wouldn't surprise me if she can't get out of bed for a couple days.

Also, the site has some problems and I think some players will be discouraged by those. It has never hosted a tournament of this size, it's at high altitude, the event is hastily arranged... Marc Lucero is pretty pessimistic about it, which makes me think some players will be hesitant to go. It might be a factor in some players' decisions.

by ponchi101 I said I would LIKE HER TO WIN IT. Never did I say she is a favorite to do so. I love Garbie, but I have learned my lesson: she is in the same category as Kvitova, who always can win the tournament, but seldom does. In the YEC topic I said that I would take Aryna at 13% chance. Nothing more.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:43 pm I said I would LIKE HER TO WIN IT. Never did I say she is a favorite to do so. I love Garbie, but I have learned my lesson: she is in the same category as Kvitova, who always can win the tournament, but seldom does. In the YEC topic I said that I would take Aryna at 13% chance. Nothing more.

Ah... I misread. Yes, I'd like Mugu to win, then Ons (I think she will play), and woud love to see Kontaveit continue her hot streak, too. But I think she'll struggle with energy.

by Suliso Thinking a bit more about it Muguruza is the only one who might decide to skip. Pliskova has always played and and done well when qualified and hard to see why it would be different this time. For everyone else it's the first time and no way they'd miss all the glory, money and ranking points. Of course baring a serious injury. Jabeur already disclosed that she's going as an alternate.

by mmmm8

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:39 pm

You're really a masochist, believing Mugu will win this. I'm a big Mugu fan, too - she's been my favorite player since 2015. But I hardly ever pick her to win. She's so inconsistent. I'm taking Sabalenka.

If you are seeking consistency, I'm not sure Aryna is your girl

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:37 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:39 pm

You're really a masochist, believing Mugu will win this. I'm a big Mugu fan, too - she's been my favorite player since 2015. But I hardly ever pick her to win. She's so inconsistent. I'm taking Sabalenka.

If you are seeking consistency, I'm not sure Aryna is your girl

Touche! But I think Sabalenka is far more consistent week in and week out, and even within a match - hence her ranking. She can self-destruct and lose because of the low margins she plays with, but I don't think she has the regular performance swings that Mugu does. She also doesn't get hurt as much. She might be rusty in Mexico, might come in refreshed... who knows.

by ti-amie I pick Aryna as the woman most likely to beat herself. Other than that I don't see anyone as a runaway favorite. I would LOVE to see Kontaveit win it but since she's literally stumbling in the door I worry about fatigue with her.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:02 pm I pick Aryna as the woman most likely to beat herself. Other than that I don't see anyone as a runaway favorite. I would LOVE to see Kontaveit win it but since she's literally stumbling in the door I worry about fatigue with her.

She always is. But still manages to win a lot. I'm curious if she is 100%. Could have lingering Covid issues, could have lost some conditioning, and any respiratory weakness could be a factor at high altitude.

by JazzNU

Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:57 pm Thinking a bit more about it Muguruza is the only one who might decide to skip. Pliskova has always played and and done well when qualified and hard to see why it would be different this time. For everyone else it's the first time and no way they'd miss all the glory, money and ranking points. Of course baring a serious injury. Jabeur already disclosed that she's going as an alternate.

Very unlikely for Garbine to skip unless she's injured. She's been vocal about being excited Latin America is getting a chance to stage a big event and hopes it will happen more often in the future and that it will help with tennis development.

by ti-amie This is...sobering

by JazzNU Yikes!

Does unverified mean that it didn't come from an account known to be hers in this context?

by mmmm8 I would guess it means it's unverified the screenshot is not real since she took it down.

I saw a Google translate on Twitter but it's very hard to follow, so would have to wait for a real translation. I hope she is somewhere safe.

by ti-amie

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:44 pm I would guess it means it's unverified the screenshot is not real since she took it down.

I saw a Google translate on Twitter but it's very hard to follow, so would have to wait for a real translation. I hope she is somewhere safe.

So do I.

by ti-amie ‘I’ll Tell the Truth About You’: China Silences Tennis Star Who Accused Ex Party Official of Sexual Assault
Beijing has removed a post by tennis star Peng Shuai accusing former Vice Premier Zhang Gaoli of sexually assaulting her before coercing her to continue a relationship with him.

Barbie Latza Nadeau
Correspondent-At-Large
Published Nov. 03, 2021 7:56AM ET

Allegations of sexual assault lobbed by tennis star Peng Shuai against a high-ranking official in the Chinese Communist Party have been removed from her social media by the Beijing government, Chinese feminist supporters say.

Peng alleged on China’s Weibo social media micro blog that former Vice Premier Zhang Gaoli sexually assaulted her before she reluctantly agreed to continue an affair with him.

The post was taken down within minutes.

In what is being described as China’s first #MeToo public accusation against a high-ranking official in the Communist Party, state censors are now scrubbing any reference to the allegation on China’s social media platforms, but not before a screenshot started making the rounds, The Washington Post reports.

Now even searches for Peng’s name and the word for “tennis” are blocked on the social-media platform, and her account appears to have been frozen, meaning no one can post messages of support. Peng, who is 35, is said to have agreed to an affair with Zhang, who is in his mid-seventies, according to the since-removed post in which she described how she had been invited to Zhang’s house to play tennis with him and his wife three years ago.

After the match, Peng wrote that Zhang pressured her to have sex. “I never consented that afternoon, crying all the time,” she wrote. She then said she reluctantly agreed to have an affair with him, but that he insisted on keeping it a secret. When he canceled an appointment to discuss the matter on Tuesday, she posted her grievance online. “I know I can’t say it all clearly, and that there’s no use in saying it,” she wrote. “But I still want to say it.”

Peng was the No. 1 ranked doubles tennis player in China in 2014 and won Wimbledon in 2013 and the French Open in 2014 with her tennis partner Hsieh Su-wei of Taiwan. Zhang served as vice premier from 2013 to 2018.

Supporters of China’s stifled feminist movement lauded the tennis star for coming forward with the accusation. Allegations of sexual misconduct are rare in China with many of the accusers punished for coming forward or have faced charges of slander by the accused.

“I know that for someone of your eminence, Vice Premier Zhang Gaoli, you’ve said that you’re not afraid,” Peng wrote in the deleted post, according to The New York Times. “But even if it’s just me, like an egg hitting a rock, or a moth to the flame, courting self-destruction, I’ll tell the truth about you.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/peng-shua ... es&via=rss

by meganfernandez She is extremely brave. It's infuriating, to say the least. Poor thing. She hasn't played since the pandemic shutdown - has she officially retired?

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:51 pm ‘I’ll Tell the Truth About You’: China Silences Tennis Star Who Accused Ex Party Official of Sexual Assault
Beijing has removed a post by tennis star Peng Shuai accusing former Vice Premier Zhang Gaoli of sexually assaulting her before coercing her to continue a relationship with him.

Barbie Latza Nadeau
Correspondent-At-Large
Published Nov. 03, 2021 7:56AM ET

Allegations of sexual assault lobbed by tennis star Peng Shuai against a high-ranking official in the Chinese Communist Party have been removed from her social media by the Beijing government, Chinese feminist supporters say.

Peng alleged on China’s Weibo social media micro blog that former Vice Premier Zhang Gaoli sexually assaulted her before she reluctantly agreed to continue an affair with him.

The post was taken down within minutes.

In what is being described as China’s first #MeToo public accusation against a high-ranking official in the Communist Party, state censors are now scrubbing any reference to the allegation on China’s social media platforms, but not before a screenshot started making the rounds, The Washington Post reports.

Now even searches for Peng’s name and the word for “tennis” are blocked on the social-media platform, and her account appears to have been frozen, meaning no one can post messages of support. Peng, who is 35, is said to have agreed to an affair with Zhang, who is in his mid-seventies, according to the since-removed post in which she described how she had been invited to Zhang’s house to play tennis with him and his wife three years ago.

After the match, Peng wrote that Zhang pressured her to have sex. “I never consented that afternoon, crying all the time,” she wrote. She then said she reluctantly agreed to have an affair with him, but that he insisted on keeping it a secret. When he canceled an appointment to discuss the matter on Tuesday, she posted her grievance online. “I know I can’t say it all clearly, and that there’s no use in saying it,” she wrote. “But I still want to say it.”

Peng was the No. 1 ranked doubles tennis player in China in 2014 and won Wimbledon in 2013 and the French Open in 2014 with her tennis partner Hsieh Su-wei of Taiwan. Zhang served as vice premier from 2013 to 2018.

Supporters of China’s stifled feminist movement lauded the tennis star for coming forward with the accusation. Allegations of sexual misconduct are rare in China with many of the accusers punished for coming forward or have faced charges of slander by the accused.

“I know that for someone of your eminence, Vice Premier Zhang Gaoli, you’ve said that you’re not afraid,” Peng wrote in the deleted post, according to The New York Times. “But even if it’s just me, like an egg hitting a rock, or a moth to the flame, courting self-destruction, I’ll tell the truth about you.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/peng-shua ... es&via=rss

by ti-amie Tennis is looking at its own Rodgers situation. I think Ms Ruhle is correct here re Rodgers.

Stephanie Ruhle
@SRuhle
It is a personal decision.
And if you decide not to be vaxxed, it is incumbent on you to remove yourself from risking harm to others.

by Fastbackss [
Reads peng shuai article...

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:51 pm ‘I’ll Tell the Truth About You’: China Silences Tennis Star Who Accused Ex Party Official of Sexual Assault
Beijing has removed a post by tennis star Peng Shuai accusing former Vice Premier Zhang Gaoli of sexually assaulting her before coercing her to continue a relationship with him.
....

....

Where is she now?
I hope she had the good sense to not be within China when she posted that.
If she is in China, she could be in serious danger.

by ti-amie

Taylor Fritz could be at home driving an expensive car like Sam Querrey said a few years ago. Instead he's been spending a lot of tennis time in Europe and maybe it's starting to pay off for him. Not a fan -yet - but it's possible.

by JazzNU Coverage of him has been real interesting as I've said before. I'm not a fan, but I also don't mind him as much as many of the American players, and I can watch him play without issue.

I don't give him any credit for being a rich kid that is playing often. His path to professional tennis is still appreciably easier than most others and it's an incredibly expensive sport to pursue.

by ponchi101 I do give him credit in the category "love for the game". The few times I have seen him play, I do believe he cares when he is on court. Most do, too, but as we are talking about him, just to point that out.

by Deuce Fritz looks like the kind of guy who'd be really upset if his hair went out of place during a point, or one of his shoes got a smudge on it - and may call a medical time-out to fix the 'problem'.
He's probably not like that - but he looks like that type.. Kind of like if JFK Jr. was a pro tennis player.

A player who had a similar 'aura' was Vince Van Patten.

.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:00 am Fritz looks like the kind of guy who'd be really upset if his hair went out of place during a point, or one of his shoes got a smudge on it - and may call a medical time-out to fix the 'problem'.
He's probably not like that - but he looks like that type.. Kind of like if JFK Jr. was a pro tennis player.

A player who had a similar 'aura' was Vince Van Patten.

.

aristocratic, spoiled, blue-blooded

You're right, he's probably not.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:36 pm I do give him credit in the category "love for the game". The few times I have seen him play, I do believe he cares when he is on court. Most do, too, but as we are talking about him, just to point that out.

Agree. Money buys the opportunities, which is a hell of a lot, but ultimately tennis is pretty democratic once the ball is in play - which is the only way to build a career. Wanting it badly is pretty essential to winning your way to the top.

by the Moz

Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:00 am Fritz looks like the kind of guy who'd be really upset if his hair went out of place during a point, or one of his shoes got a smudge on it - and may call a medical time-out to fix the 'problem'.
He's probably not like that - but he looks like that type.. Kind of like if JFK Jr. was a pro tennis player.

A player who had a similar 'aura' was Vince Van Patten.

.

One of the reasons my BF can't stand David Beckham is during his playing days he would sometimes fix his hair during halftime

by Suliso Curious factoid: Belinda Bencic is 13-7 in her last 20 matches against top 10 players.

by ponchi101 That is indeed curious. A pretty good winning percentage, yet she is still in the mid 10-20 range.

by Suliso She was top 10 last year, but I think the point here is lack of steadiness. She once beat 4 top 10 players back to back (Dubai or Doha), but then didn't follow it up for a long time.

by Suliso Also remember what Tursunov said in that recent interview. Lots of players are fine with where they are.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:34 pm Also remember what Tursunov said in that recent interview. Lots of players are fine with where they are.

True, yet one could unpack this with each player and get a more personalized version, which may or may not include a lack of ambition. Versions could be: They are well-adjusted and happy knowing that they are giving their best every day, yet are still ambitious... ambition ebbs and flows over time, depending on many circumstances... some never thought they would get this far and are truly grateful in a way that holds them back from fulfilling every ounce of potential... they're fine where they are for the time being, but that could change... they have so much scar tissue from trying and failing to get a teensy-weensy bit better, enough to go from Top 20 to Top 5, and are tired of beating themselves up about it... they're young and rich and beautiful and want to have some fun, even though they could get a little better if they practiced or played more (that would be me)... they've learned that their best chance is to not put ranking pressure on themselves, which might translate to a lack of ambition but actually isn't... they truly are fine with where they are and where the chips fall (as he said).

by Suliso These players are very good at what they do, but psychologically they're still humans similar to us here.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:15 pm These players are very good at what they do, but psychologically they're still humans similar to us here.

And mostly young humans.

by ti-amie 05 Nov 2021

Provisional suspension imposed on Cagla Buyukakcay

Cagla Buyukakcay has been provisionally suspended under Article 7.12.1 of the 2021 Tennis Anti-Doping Programme (the "Programme"), pending determination of the charge against her at a full hearing pursuant to Article 8 of the Programme.

Ms. Buyukakcay, a 32-year-old player from Turkey, provided a urine sample on 3 August 2021 in association with her participation in the WTA Winners Open, played in Cluj-Napoca, Romania from 2-8 August 2021. That sample was sent to the World Anti-Doping Agency (“WADA”) accredited laboratory in Montreal, Canada for analysis, and was found to contain Ractopamine. Ractopamine is a non-Specified Substance, which is prohibited under category S1 of the 2021 WADA Prohibited List (Anabolic Agents), and therefore also prohibited under the Programme. Positive tests for non-Specified Substances carry a mandatory Provisional Suspension.

Ms. Buyukakcay was sent a pre-charge notice of Anti-Doping Rule Violations under Articles 2.1 and 2.2 of the Programme (presence of a Prohibited Substance in a Player’s Sample, and use of that substance) on 5 October 2021 and exercised her right to apply to the Chair of the Independent Panel for an order that the otherwise applicable Provisional Suspension should not be imposed. The Chair of the Independent Panel issued his decision on 4 November 2021, in which he dismissed the application to not impose the Provisional Suspension.

https://antidoping.itftennis.com/news/322307.aspx

by ti-amie Many of the Turkish players are saying she ate something that caused the positive reaction since the substance is used to promote leaner meat. If that's so why haven't other players not tested positive? Just a thought.

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:34 pm Also remember what Tursunov said in that recent interview. Lots of players are fine with where they are.

I guess that by age 25 or something, you know how much you can expect from your game. For example, Pavs must be fine with where she is. Still a top player, she made a Slams final, she knows she is not going to all of the sudden go scorch earth and win 3 Wimby's and 2 USO's in the next 4 years.
I guess you keep playing because you like it, it is what you do best, and the rewards are fair. Which, as Tursonov says, makes you feel fine.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:55 pm Many of the Turkish players are saying she ate something that caused the positive reaction since the substance is used to promote leaner meat. If that's so why haven't other players not tested positive? Just a thought.

I have no idea, but if it's other Turkish players mentioning the issue, then maybe it's an ingredient being used more often in Turkey than it is elsewhere? When Farah was suspended before getting it overturned, the discussion was about something that was contaminated in Colombian meat, not just meat in general.

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:26 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:55 pm Many of the Turkish players are saying she ate something that caused the positive reaction since the substance is used to promote leaner meat. If that's so why haven't other players not tested positive? Just a thought.
I have no idea, but if it's other Turkish players mentioning the issue, then maybe it's an ingredient being used more often in Turkey than it is elsewhere? When Farah was suspended before getting it overturned, the discussion was about something that was contaminated in Colombian meat, not just meat in general.

True

by JazzNU In terms of Bencic - not that curious in terms of her ranking, at least not recently. She's had good wins obviously, but outside of the Olympics, they haven't been in Semi-Finals and Finals much. She's more often than not done the beat Pegula, beat Swiatek, and lose to Raducanu more than you'd think in the last 2 or so years. Her consistency is odd to say the least. She's been doing consistently well playing for Switzerland lately , but also, remember that Leylah got on most non-Canadians radar by beating her in a Fed Cup match in early 2020. Leylah was maybe top 150 at the time.

In terms of player's psyche - I always remember Darren Cahill talking on ESPN about differences between coaching men and women. He was a consultant not coach at the time under Adidas, so he'd worked with a number of WTA players for extended periods of time, but wasn't an official coach yet. He said with the women, it was never about talent, that they were always talented enough to reach the top and win, so it was less about working on getting them better weapons and more about believing in the weapons they had and executing in important moments. And if you think about the players he worked with thru Adidas, that really is true.

by ti-amie I watched Cahill working Halep out a few years ago at the US Open a few years ago during Qualie Week and he was doing exactly what he's saying here.

by Deuce Because the main difference between the top players is between the ears, not in physical ability.
They all know how to hit a tennis ball very efficiently.
Confidence, commitment, drive, focus, concentration, dealing with pressure, dealing with other elements (sun, wind, crowd, bad line calls, etc.) - how one handles these things - that's where they're separated.
Not just the women - the men, as well.

by ti-amie Note the date of the post.

by ptmcmahon Ignoring date of post and assuming Wimbledon still on going!

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:52 pm Note the date of the post.

^ That is downright depressing.

I'd like to see the percentage from 1981 to today.

No... that would be even more depressing...

by ponchi101 That is at WImbledon. I wonder how even fewer points are played with S&V at the USO or the Aussie.
How I miss Pete, Martina, Hana, John, Stefan and Boris.

by JazzNU

by ti-amie

by JazzNU I get pointing it out, but the replies are strange. The #1 WTA qualifier is an Aussie, she just didn't come. Naomi plays like one more tournament, she's in, etc. It's much more of an ATP question than WTA.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:38 pm

What does passion have to do with this? S. America is not producing any players because tennis is an upper middle class/upper class sport. You need A LOT OF MONEY to produce a champion.
Silly comment, as far as I am concerned.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:37 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:38 pm
What does passion have to do with this? S. America is not producing any players because tennis is an upper middle class/upper class sport. You need A LOT OF MONEY to produce a champion.
Silly comment, as far as I am concerned.

Agree about the passion thing. It sounds wildly stereotypical and also beside the point. It's about talent meeting opportunity.

by Suliso Anett Kontaveit since late August Cleveland tournament:

28-2
4 titles
4 top ten wins
Ranked #30 before this stretch, currently #7 in live rankings. Could finish the season as high as #3, but no lower than #9.

The two loses were to Iga Swiatek USO R32 and Ons Jabeur IW QF's.

by ti-amie I had the match on but got distracted. I'm happy for Anett but wth happened to KaPlis? Plays lights out tennis for a set and can't follow up?

by JazzNU

by Suliso All multiple title winners on WTA season this year

Ashleigh Barty 5
Anett Kontaveit 4
Barbora Krejcikova 3
Aryna Sabalenka 2
Paula Badosa 2
Garbine Muguruza 2
Iga Swiatek 2
Danielle Collins 2
Daria Kasatkina 2
Clara Tauson 2

6 singles titles went to Australian players, 5 to Spanish and 4 each to players from USA, Czech Republic, Russia and Estonia

by Suliso The above list is likely to still change but the one below will not.

First time WTA title winners in 2021

Clara Tauson (18)
Sara Sorribes Tormo (24)
Leylah Fernandez (18)
Camila Osorio (19)
Veronika Kudermetova (23)
Astra Sharma (25)
Paula Badosa (23)
Barbora Krejcikova (25)
Ons Jabeur (26)

by patrick How about the USO champion? Believe WTA still count this as a title.

by ponchi101 About Annet. I remember a couple of years ago, during our yearly predictions, I picked Annet as the one to have a breakthrough year. She did nothing, middling around the 30's. Then I wondered if she had it.
I guess she just needed some time. But she is no longer just a safe first day pick for the SP. Needless to say, I like that.

by JazzNU

Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:58 pm The above list is likely to still change but the one below will not.

First time WTA title winners in 2021

Clara Tauson (18)
Sara Sorribes Tormo (24)
Leylah Fernandez (18)
Camila Osorio (19)
Veronika Kudermetova (23)
Astra Sharma (25)
Paula Badosa (23)
Barbora Krejcikova (25)
Ons Jabeur (26)

Fairly certain this list runs up to Wimbledon (though missing Samsonova), but doesn't include the rest of the year. Several first time winners missing from this list including Raducanu as mentioned by Patrick. For instance, Danielle Collins listed as a multiple title winner this year in an above post, those were her first two WTA titles. There were an unusually high number of first time winners this year.

by Suliso Oh right... I should have looked more critically at the list I found. I'll correct later.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:56 pm

...

Oh, sure Stephanie. Let's have ONE male reporter ask a female player if she had menstrual-related issues. For sure nothing is going to happen to that man. Nothing.

by dmforever Chris Evert talked about it once. She was playing Wade in (yes) Wightman Cup (all you youngsters can google it.

) and down something like 1-5 in the 3rd set and then came back because she (Evert) started menstruating.

Why I remember this I have no idea.

Kevin

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

dmforever wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:39 pm Chris Evert talked about it once. She was playing Wade in (yes) Wightman Cup (all you youngsters can google it. ) and down something like 1-5 in the 3rd set and then came back because she (Evert) started menstruating.

Why I remember this I have no idea.

Kevin

Martina flat out said she had her period after her loss against Mandlikova at the USO 1985.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:
dmforever wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:39 pm Chris Evert talked about it once. She was playing Wade in (yes) Wightman Cup (all you youngsters can google it. ) and down something like 1-5 in the 3rd set and then came back because she (Evert) started menstruating.

Why I remember this I have no idea.

Kevin
Martina flat out said she had her period after her loss against Mandlikova at the USO 1985.

Right.., every 36 years, someone mentions it.

my friend and I talk about this, how it must affect players but it's too taboo to discuss. I certainly sympathize with male reporters - they wouldn't want to ask about it directly. Even female reporters might not, because it feels so private. I'm guessing the topic has different levels of sensitivity and taboo-ness between cultures, too.

bSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by meganfernandez Per Christopher Clarey, the WTA says they have received an assurance that Peng is safe but haven't spoken to her. Do we believe this?

Liam Broady tweeted #WhereIsPengShuai, also. But it's been a dismal showing from the players' corner, as far as I can tell. A few other players have tweeted... Cornet, Tara Moore, I'm sure some others but I had to scroll past too many non-player tweets in the Top tab without seeing any. Perhaps are they being advised not to, for her safety?

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 6:40 pm

This was a reply to a reader who said that none of the players in Guadalajara would prefer to play for a bigger paycheck in China if the Chinese did something to Peng, and the reader suggested asking them. It wasn't the David Law tweet that Wertheim appears to have quote-tweeted below.

by ponchi101 Both the ATP, the WTA and other entities (specially the NBA), have made a commitment to play and engage in China, when everybody knows it is a brutal dictatorship and a place where human rights are non-existent for opponents of the regime. The younger generations did not see the Tiananmen Square Massacre in 1989 because they were not born yet and it has been actively blocked from being a news worthy of coverage ever since.
The WTA should rightly be concerned for Shuai's safety, but there is nothing that can be done. It would be the same as if Aryna or Vika were to disappear in Belarus. These countries are not dictatorships for no reason.

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:48 pm
Oh, sure Stephanie. Let's have ONE male reporter ask a female player if she had menstrual-related issues. For sure nothing is going to happen to that man. Nothing.

Huh? What's going to happen to the male reporter? Will a period monster appear if he says "menstruation" 3 times?

Being afraid to ask something inappropriate because "I'm a man, I don't understand periods. EWWW" is a poor excuse for not doing 10 minutes of Google research or speaking to a female friend or relative.

Serena Williams actually discussed at length her pretty-common condition of menstrual migraines and went on to promote medication for it.

-----
Hope Peng Shuai is just in hiding.

by ti-amie This whole situation with Peng Shuai always puts one of two phrases into my head:

Lay down with dogs you get up with fleas or "you knew darn well I was a snake before you took me in".

by ponchi101

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:14 pm ...

Huh? What's going to happen to the male reporter? Will a period monster appear if he says "menstruation" 3 times? Being afraid to ask something inappropriate because "I'm a man, I don't understand periods. EWWW" is a poor excuse for not doing 10 minutes of Google research or speaking to a female friend or relative.

Serena Williams actually discussed at length her pretty-common condition of menstrual migraines and went on to promote medication for it.

-----
Hope Peng Shuai is just in hiding.

What could happen? In this "cancel culture", "perennially offended" environment, what could happen?
Remember the guy that asked Naomi that question about how she was handling both her mental health issues and her media presence, and then all hell broke loose because he had been "aggressive"? I would say that at a minimum, a male reporter asking a women if she had her period would lose his assignment, at worst his job.
Also, how would you phrase the question? "Iga, today you played not at your usual level. In what section of your menstrual cycle are you?".
Thanks for the bit about Serena.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:48 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:14 pm ...

Huh? What's going to happen to the male reporter? Will a period monster appear if he says "menstruation" 3 times? Being afraid to ask something inappropriate because "I'm a man, I don't understand periods. EWWW" is a poor excuse for not doing 10 minutes of Google research or speaking to a female friend or relative.

Serena Williams actually discussed at length her pretty-common condition of menstrual migraines and went on to promote medication for it.

-----
Hope Peng Shuai is just in hiding.
What could happen? In this "cancel culture", "perennially offended" environment, what could happen?
Remember the guy that asked Naomi that question about how she was handling both her mental health issues and her media presence, and then all hell broke loose because he had been "aggressive"? I would say that at a minimum, a male reporter asking a women if she had her period would lose his assignment, at worst his job.
Also, how would you phrase the question? "Iga, today you played not at your usual level. In what section of your menstrual cycle are you?".
Thanks for the bit about Serena.

I agree with you, Ponchi. If i were a male reporter, I'd most likely have some qualms about it. It feels too personal. And wondering if a woman is on her period has been a condescending comment in the past, too - a way to dismiss women's feelings. Perhaps it would go over just fine, or asked as a general "how are you feeling? any physical issues today?", but it's reasonable to worry about it. I wouldn't feel too comfortable asking someone about it.

The Cincinnati reporter who asked Osaka the question wasn't inappropriate in the least yet still took a lot of heat. It happened to strike a nerve with her, but it was professionally asked and considered.

by ti-amie I think that women, especially athletes, downplay the role their menstrual cycles play in their training and performance because it opens the door to the dismissive "female problems" catch all phrase men use when women are a bit off professionally.

I have to agree that it would be very difficult for a man to raise the question. It shouldn't be but there's no avoiding the problems that reporter would face.

Maybe Iga is young enough to not be aware of the code of silence re menstrual cycles and women athletes I don't know.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:07 pm I think that women, especially athletes, downplay the role their menstrual cycles play in their training and performance because it opens the door to the dismissive "female problems" catch all phrase men use when women are a bit off professionally.

I have to agree that it would be very difficult for a man to raise the question. It shouldn't be but there's no avoiding the problems that reporter would face.

Maybe Iga is young enough to not be aware of the code of silence re menstrual cycles and women athletes I don't know.

I think these things are less taboo with younger generations. Just one factor. I'm curious about cultural difference, too. Just as some cultures don't sexualize nudity like the US does, maybe some don't consider periods taboo.

by Suliso Nobody is going to ask this anywhere unless the woman volunteers this information as Iga apparently did.

by ptmcmahon I don't even ask my wife about hers

by ponchi101 One thing is something being taboo, another thing is being personal. I had a GF once that had terrible menstrual cycles, in the sense that she really felt awful during those days. I kept track of her cycle because I knew that, during those days, she was not feeling well and I did not want her to be any more uncomfortable; those days, I tried to be less of a jerk than usual. Well, one time something happened and I said something along the lines of "I know you are not feeling well, and blah blah blah (about whatever the issue was)" and she asked how I knew she had her period. I explained that I kept track and she exploded. How dared I keep track of that.
It is not taboo. It is personal. As Suliso says, if the woman explains so, fine. Other than that, it is truly nobody's business. It has nothing to do with it being eww or anything (which, of course, it isn't).

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:48 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:14 pm ...

Huh? What's going to happen to the male reporter? Will a period monster appear if he says "menstruation" 3 times? Being afraid to ask something inappropriate because "I'm a man, I don't understand periods. EWWW" is a poor excuse for not doing 10 minutes of Google research or speaking to a female friend or relative.

Serena Williams actually discussed at length her pretty-common condition of menstrual migraines and went on to promote medication for it.

-----
Hope Peng Shuai is just in hiding.
What could happen? In this "cancel culture", "perennially offended" environment, what could happen?
Remember the guy that asked Naomi that question about how she was handling both her mental health issues and her media presence, and then all hell broke loose because he had been "aggressive"? I would say that at a minimum, a male reporter asking a women if she had her period would lose his assignment, at worst his job.
Also, how would you phrase the question? "Iga, today you played not at your usual level. In what section of your menstrual cycle are you?".
Thanks for the bit about Serena.

Yeah, I 100% am not suggesting people, MALE OR FEMALE, should ask others if they're on their period or hypothesize if that's why someone lost. I'm referring to either asking follow-up questions if a player volunteers this information or potentially asking a general question about how menstrual cycles affect them or how they manage playing through this, etc.

by ponchi101 Aahh, then we agree.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:49 pm Aahh, then we agree.

Period.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:25 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:49 pm Aahh, then we agree.
Period.

You didn't

by ptmcmahon Not sure I like the flow of this conversation

by mmmm8

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:07 am Not sure I like the flow of this conversation

Some days are heavy, some days are light.

by ptmcmahon The funny thing, I am very worried about a few years from now when my youngest is ... "old enough." I will be in a house with four females - not sure if it would be better if all four alternate (and then someone always on their period) or if some of them double up and I just have a bad week or two

by ti-amie PT women who share space often sync up and get their periods at the same time. #justsoyouknow.

by ptmcmahon "Sorry honey, looks like I have to go into the office every day this week! See you in seven days"

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote:
ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:07 am Not sure I like the flow of this conversation
Some days are heavy, some days are light.

Now we’re just padding the conversation

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by Deuce

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:14 pm Huh? What's going to happen to the male reporter? Will a period monster appear if he says "menstruation" 3 times? Being afraid to ask something inappropriate because "I'm a man, I don't understand periods. EWWW" is a poor excuse for not doing 10 minutes of Google research or speaking to a female friend or relative.

^ While some males are surely 'grossed out' by the thought of female menstruation, I don't think that's the case with the majority of males. I think it's more common for males to be afraid of offending females if they mention anything regarding their menstruation.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:07 pm I think that women, especially athletes, downplay the role their menstrual cycles play in their training and performance because it opens the door to the dismissive "female problems" catch all phrase men use when women are a bit off professionally.

I have to agree that it would be very difficult for a man to raise the question. It shouldn't be but there's no avoiding the problems that reporter would face.

Maybe Iga is young enough to not be aware of the code of silence re menstrual cycles and women athletes I don't know.

^ Yes, sometimes the youngsters are refreshing because they haven't yet learned (been socially brainwashed) into believing that certain normal occurrences are 'inappropriate' to talk about.
If only we could all remain young - at least in this context...

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:26 pm I think these things are less taboo with younger generations. Just one factor. I'm curious about cultural difference, too. Just as some cultures don't sexualize nudity like the US does, maybe some don't consider periods taboo.

^ I've been thinking about, reading about, and discussing, the sexualization of nudity lately. One analogy I read was that 'Nudity is to sexuality what the grape is to alcohol' - meaning that grapes are an essential ingredient of alcohol, just as nudity is an essential ingredient of sexuality (for the sake of argument, this is true almost all of the time

)... but grapes also exist on their own, completely independent of alcohol, as a delicious, nutritious, and healthy food, just as nudity exists completely on its own, as a natural human state, completely independent of any sexuality.
After all, we don't automatically think of alcohol when we see grapes the same way that we seem to automatically think of sexuality when we encounter nudity.

It's really about recognizing and understanding context.
Some European countries can rather easily make the clear distinction between nudity and sexuality, realizing that nudity is certainly not inherently sexual. I feel that these countries have a much healthier view of both nudity and sexuality than we here in North America have.

by skatingfan

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:57 pm I don't even ask my wife about hers

Hence the four kids.

by ponchi101 Post of the week, so far, barely edging several by Megan.

by ti-amie

by Fastbackss She really looks like aryna in that picture.

(For what it's worth, aryna is a dead ringer for one of our friends. Younger kid walked in last night and thought it was sakkari)

by JTContinental The Shuai Peng is missing story is starting to pick up traction in the media--I'd seen articles on less credible news sites over the last week, but it's all over on mainstream media today

by ponchi101 Naomi also posted about it.
One wonders what can be done. China has done atrocities galore, and the world simply always turns its head. They are used to this and within the country, basically there are no news about this.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:31 pm Naomi also posted about it.
One wonders what can be done. China has done atrocities galore, and the world simply always turns its head. They are used to this and within the country, basically there are no news about this.

Does no one think it's possible that she is hiding and isn't even in China and is staying silent right now for a good reason? And might have her phone off so she can't be tracked? Wouldn't she know better than anyone the risk she was taking when she spoke out, and not have hung around like a sitting duck? Why do people expect to be able to reach her right now?

I'm really struggling with the scant news that has been reported. Steve Simon said he received assurances that she was alright. That means you believe it, not just that you technically received a dubious statement of assurance from someone you can't trust. (Like the email that the Chinese government is saying Peng sent to Simon, which might not even be true itself, and even if he did receive it, it's less than convincing.) And Clarey would have known to clarify that with Simon and wouldn't have been sloppy with those details. I assumed he had more and/or different information that Clarey chose not to publish, perhaps for her safety.

I know Simon said none of the WTA folks or players who know Peng have been able to reach her, but we can't draw conclusions from that.

by ponchi101 I would agree with that position, but this is the Chinese government. They are very good at tracking people. If she is in China, hiding is a good idea, but that can't go forever. If she is outside of China, then why the silence from her?
You are right; right now, all we have are hypothesis. But the alternatives are:
1. She is in China, and in the hands of the government. Bad outcome.
2. She is in China, and hiding from the government. The chances for a good outcome are slim.
3. She is not in China, and is hiding from the Chinese government. But hiding and not asking for assistance from the government of wherever she is not the best policy, because you can count on the Chinese government looking for her.

The options are not pleasant.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:06 pm I would agree with that position, but this is the Chinese government. They are very good at tracking people. If she is in China, hiding is a good idea, but that can't go forever. If she is outside of China, then why the silence from her?
You are right; right now, all we have are hypothesis. But the alternatives are:
1. She is in China, and in the hands of the government. Bad outcome.
2. She is in China, and hiding from the government. The chances for a good outcome are slim.
3. She is not in China, and is hiding from the Chinese government. But hiding and not asking for assistance from the government of wherever she is not the best policy, because you can count on the Chinese government looking for her.

The options are not pleasant.

She might still choose to remain silent for the time being even if she isn't in China. She might not be 100% out of their clutches.

Regarding #3, she could be asking for assistance from a different government. We wouldn't necessarily know.

Now Simon just said: "The statement released today by Chinese state media concerning Peng Shuai only raises my concerns as to her safety and whereabouts. Peng Shuai must be allowed to speak freely, without coercion or intimidation from any source."

So he wasn't "assured" of her safety. The assurances weren't actually assuring, unless something has changed since then. I'm disappointed that Clarey let that misleading information into his story and tweets.

Ugh. I thought he had heard something pretty solid.

by ti-amie

by MJ2004 Jon said it well:

It's Time for the WTA to Stop Doing Business in China
While the Tour has called for an investigation into the allegations made by former pro Peng Shuai, it also has a considerable opportunity in this crisis: to cut ties with a country so unaligned with its mission.
JON WERTHEIM

While the tennis world obsesses over Emma Raducanu’s coach, the Guadalajara results and groupings in Turin, we have a real crisis. In short strokes. Last week, on Nov. 2, the recently retired WTA veteran Peng Shuai took to Weibo, a Chinese social media platform, to give an account of being sexually assaulted by Zhang Gaoli, a former high-ranking member of the Chinese Communist Party.

The account has since been taken down and comments have been disabled. And no one within China can read about this. Any and all reference to this matter—which has been covered everywhere from the BBC to The New York Times to Al Jazeera—has been scrubbed from Chinese search engines. And now comes news that Shuai has “disappeared,” which would be in keeping with China’s treatment of high-profile dissenters. It’s deeply disturbing and concerning. It’s terrible for Shuai, whose safety is paramount.

It’s a considerable crisis for the WTA Tour. It’s also a considerable opportunity for the WTA Tour.

It’s no secret that doing business in and with China can be—and often is—deeply problematic. Ask Apple. Ask Nike. Ask the NBA. Ask NBC, which has to negotiate how and whether it wants to address human-rights abuses and the Uyghur genocide and lifetime appointments during its Olympic coverage. (Bob Costas will tell you this is why he chooses not to be part of the coverage.) The 2008 Beijing Games that were supposed to liberalize China made its regime only more brazen in rejecting liberal democracy and human rights.

We all have different thresholds for outrage. Companies and humans are good at holding their noses and rationalizing bad acts, especially when there’s money to be made. In tennis, though, we are at a different point. This isn’t just sweeping human-rights abuses and something systemically untroubling. This is a player—a longstanding, top-flight, well-liked veteran—caught in the gears and reportedly “missing.” How, in any kind of conscience—much less, good conscience—can the WTA continue engaging here? How can players who have global brands and have, admirably, used their platform to speak credibly about other forms of social justice, abide by this?

The WTA must ask itself a simple question: What does it stand for? What is its objective? If it’s simply to maximize revenues, it will stay in China, where a dozen events are held, more than in any other country. If the WTA has terms beyond the mercenary, it must demand transparency and action. And be prepared to get out, to stop doing business in a country so unaligned with its purported mission. Bravo to Steve Simon for stating as much, to The New York Times: “We would be prepared to take that step and not operate out business in China.” Now for the follow-through …

Leaving China will come at a steep price. Ash Barty won more money at the 2019 WTA Finals event in Shenzhen than the entire purse for this year’s event. I’m told that China is responsible for at least one-third of the WTA revenues. Yet leaving China also lets the WTA distinguish itself for principles. What a statement this would send—especially with a Winter Olympics months away. What a way to say, “Our athletes’ safety and or moral principles—our belief in women’s rights, human rights and democracy—matter more than our balance sheets.”

This marks a real moment of truth and reckoning for the WTA. Here’s a pep talk: Believe in your product. Believe in your players. Believe in your international appeal. Believe that the market will reward backbone.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote:

Yeah, it’s a joke that whoever sent it thought anyone would believe it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ponchi101 Yes. The WTA should not do business in China.
And then some accountant somewhere will say "we will lose this much" and the excuses will start.
Maybe the same accountant that works for the NBA.
Bravo for Jon for penning that.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:53 am Yes. The WTA should not do business in China.
And then some accountant somewhere will say "we will lose this much" and the excuses will start.
Maybe the same accountant that works for the NBA.
Bravo for Jon for penning that.

Is the idea of not doing business in China mostly because fo the Peng situation, or because of China's general sins as an autocracy, independent of yet inspired by the treatment of Peng?

by ti-amie I put this here instead of the tournament thread because it was a truly remarkable speech. As we know all players aren't free to make speeches like this.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:30 pm ...

Is the idea of not doing business in China mostly because fo the Peng situation, or because of China's general sins as an autocracy, independent of yet inspired by the treatment of Peng?

I have been critical of the Chinese regime even before Tiananmen. I tried all my life to boycott Chinese products that I knew were manufactured under conditions I believe were inhumane (I do not buy tennis clothing or any clothing that is made in China). I truly try to stick, as much as possible, to products not made there.
So, personally, my opinion is independent of the situation with Peng. Peng is just another example of a regime that is unjustifiable.
The world will see, when China attempts to annex Taiwan, via military force.

by Deuce Sadly, the clothing factories in other countries - like Honduras, Bangladesh, India, etc. have working conditions which are usually as bad or even worse than the ones in China.

Because we (humanity) have created disgusting conditions by which it's extremely difficult to find clothing which is NOT made under abusive and unhealthy working conditions, I buy second-hand clothes as much as possible.

I was going to put this link (below) somewhere - I was wondering where to put it... maybe in 'Random, Random'... maybe in 'NBA'... but I guess I'll put it right here, as it's pertinent to this discussion...

Notwithstanding that it's 'principles', not 'principals', and that Nike is certainly not the only offender (but they are the ones with the most money, so they can easily afford to pay their workers much better and create better working conditions), I really like the stance that Enes Kanter is taking here.
I would love to see more athletes showing some integrity and taking similar positions...

'Money Over Morals'

About 20 years ago, I saw a kid in a shopping mall who was about 11 years old and wearing a Nike hat. He was with his mom. I said to him "Do you know that children your age and younger are forced to make those hats in poor countries, and are paid next to nothing?"
The kid responded, without any hesitation "I don't care - the hat's cool."
That pretty much sums up the impersonal, selfish North American perspective on life.

by ponchi101 Serena has voiced her serious concerns about the Peng Shuai situation. My hat off to her.
It is time for the PLAYERS, not the WTA, to be more vocal. If possible, ask the ATP counterparts to join. Every single top 10 player in the world, from both tours, plus the usual constellation of stars (Serena and Naomi in the WTA, Roger, Rafa and Nole in the ATP) has to make it clear that they will boycott China until Peng Shuai can speak freely, in a forum outside of China.
I know, I know, I know. I am also asking Santa for that pony for Xmas. But it cannot only be Serena and Naomi posting TWT or IG stuff.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:17 pm Serena has voiced her serious concerns about the Peng Shuai situation. My hat off to her.
It is time for the PLAYERS, not the WTA, to be more vocal. If possible, ask the ATP counterparts to join. Every single top 10 player in the world, from both tours, plus the usual constellation of stars (Serena and Naomi in the WTA, Roger, Rafa and Nole in the ATP) has to make it clear that they will boycott China until Peng Shuai can speak freely, in a forum outside of China.
I know, I know, I know. I am also asking Santa for that pony for Xmas. But it cannot only be Serena and Naomi posting TWT or IG stuff.

Yeah, this has finally blown up with major news coverage. The Wall Street Journal has two pieces on it. It was on CNN with an interview withe Steve Simon (and the host pointed out that the show would be censored in China). A reporter asked Biden today (or his press secretary, not sure) if the US will consider boycotting the Olympics (diplomats only), and I wondered if the question was spurred by the Peng situation.

Lots of players have mentioned it on social media in the last 2 days, following Osaka and Serena and Djokovic. Not sure if Djokovic spoke up online independently or if he just voiced support in an interview from Turin. Some other notable players who have spoken up are Halep, Kvitova, Gauff, Cornet (twice), Mahut (twice), Wawrinka, Sakkari, Jabeur, Rajeev Ram (hey, I'm from Indiana), Clijsters, Julia Goerges. Also BJK, Chris Evert, P-Mac, Mouratoglou, Stubbs... Roger hasn't said anything, right?

Murray, of course, nailed it.

by JTContinental [sorry, repeated info]

by Suliso On a less serious note I'm reading that a statistically significant match has taken place in Montevideo challenger between Vitoria Jimenez Kasintseva and Maria Carle. Kasintseva won 7-6 (12), 5-7, 7-5 in match featuring 26 breaks and only 10 holds. Even more significantly there was a golden first set with 12 straight breaks! They were battling for 3 h 50 min.

Forgot to add: 22 double faults and no aces...

by ti-amie

by Suliso Glad to see someone has a spine after all albeit I was wondering if China would be back in tennis before this as well.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:43 pm On a less serious note I'm reading that a statistically significant match has taken place in Montevideo challenger between Vitoria Jimenez Kasintseva and Maria Carle. Kasintseva won 7-6 (12), 5-7, 7-5 in match featuring 26 breaks and only 10 holds. Even more significantly there was a golden first set with 12 straight breaks! They were battling for 3 h 50 min.

Forgot to add: 22 double faults and no aces...

Sorry, you lost me there. A golden set is one set in which you win 24 straight points, and your opponent (of course) wins none. If the first set was 12 straight breaks (making it 6-6 and in route to a TB) I don't think that is a golden set.
Or at least we are using different definitions.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:58 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:43 pm On a less serious note I'm reading that a statistically significant match has taken place in Montevideo challenger between Vitoria Jimenez Kasintseva and Maria Carle. Kasintseva won 7-6 (12), 5-7, 7-5 in match featuring 26 breaks and only 10 holds. Even more significantly there was a golden first set with 12 straight breaks! They were battling for 3 h 50 min.

Forgot to add: 22 double faults and no aces...
Sorry, you lost me there. A golden set is one set in which you win 24 straight points, and your opponent (of course) wins none. If the first set was 12 straight breaks (making it 6-6 and in route to a TB) I don't think that is a golden set.
Or at least we are using different definitions.

that was my initial thought, but I assume he means golden in the context of this break-fest - in other words, no holds in 12 games. No the traditional definition of "golden set," like Shvedova's.

by Suliso Yeah, sorry. Forgot about the other definition of the golden set. I just called it like that because I've always wanted to see such an ultimate break-fest, but have never had a chance. They must be incredibly rare even in women's game or perhaps this is even the first one?

by meganfernandez Sorry to go back to Peng, but Steve Simon was just on the Tennis Channel expressing his concern and what we all know about the WTA's stance... but then he happened to mention: "it's not just she's okay from a physical perspective, which I'm assuming that she is. I don't have any reason to doubt that that's the case. But again, dealing with the emotional concerns that she may be facing of 1.) coming forward with those allegations, and also, if she does have word of how big of an issue this is."

No, no, no - the urgent question isn't HOW is Peng Shuai, it's WHERE is Peng Shuai? Yes, he could be saying this optimistically, like he hasn't received any convincing evidence that she is hurt. But I think that would be very misleading. Aren't the disappearance, radio silence, fake email, and China's reputation enough to create doubt that she is not okay physically? That's what we have all been talking about, not whether she's having an emotional crisis!

by JTContinental https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... ted-online

More dubious evidence released today of Peng Shuai--this time a video and photos of her dining and hanging out with her coach and team. Along with it came the ominous promise that she will "show up in public soon."

Additionally, I've been scouting Twitter about this issue, and the story that is seemingly being passed on to Chinese citizens is that this 75 year old man was cheating on her and she was so obsessed with him that she accused him of rape in a fit of insane jealousy.

by ti-amie From Federer's interview with Sky sportsItaly

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I gather he has to keep it well balanced. Overall, a good missive. Let's see if the silence from China will be its sole response.

by ponchi101 Reports that Peng Shuai was "seen" at a juniors tournament in China. I guess a "sighting" is the best we can ask for.

by MJ2004 This is nothing new for us here in TAT, but it's still nice to see it laid out in MSM (this article is from Vox):

King Richard and reclaiming Richard Williams’s legacy
In King Richard, Venus and Serena’s dad is the hero. The media didn’t always treat him that way.

If you’ve been watching Serena and Venus Williams since the beginning, you’ve watched them play for almost 30 years. Their tennis careers are old enough to be millennials, with over 1,600 singles wins, 122 singles titles, and 30 Grand Slam singles wins combined. They will go down in history as two of the greatest female tennis players of all time, with Serena arguably being the greatest player in history.

But their dazzling on-court accomplishments only tell one piece of the story, often leaving out how much their parents — Richard and Oracene — sacrificed, studied, and worked to make their daughters the best tennis players in the world. The glow from those wins can also obscure how the family endured racist attacks, hostile treatment from other players, unfounded allegations of match-fixing, and skewed media coverage.

The new movie King Richard, directed by Reinaldo Marcus Green and starring Will Smith, aims to tell a previously unheard story of the Williams family triumph, through the lens of their father, the eponymous Richard. It’s less about the sisters’ accomplishments than how Richard planned to give them a better life through tennis. It’s also an often clear-eyed look at how poorly Richard and his family were treated.

As the US undergoes a larger cultural reckoning on race, King Richard coincides with a cultural reexamination of Richard’s life and his legacy. In the early days of the Williams sisters’ pro careers, Richard was largely portrayed by journalists, players, coaches, and the tennis establishment as bombastic and rude, and later, a bad influence on his girls. The media was unforgiving, and the sport itself could be incredibly cruel to outsiders. Thanks to their ultra-successful careers, slowly and surely, a growing chorus of fans, experts, and insiders now acknowledges what a difficult role he was forced into — sometimes by the very people who were guilty of portraying him as a nuisance. It’s now clear to many that Richard was protecting his girls from a sport that was eager to see them disappear, but it’s all too easy to forget how much the narrative has changed.

Richard Williams didn’t look like the tennis establishment

To understand the animosity and media pressure the Williams family experienced, you have to understand how insular tennis is and how that environment magnified the classist and racist attacks thrown their way.

Traditionally, tennis is a sport that wealthy, predominantly white people play — professional lessons are expensive, court time isn’t necessarily easy to come by, and you can’t play by yourself, which may mean joining group lessons or academies. Kids who are good enough enter high-profile tournaments that are affiliated with the United States Tennis Association (USTA), and really good ones go on to elite junior international tournaments before turning pro. All the while, there’s a system of tennis clubs, coaches, sponsors, former players, tennis organizations, and everyone in between.

The Williams family absolutely did not fit in this mold. Richard grew up poor in Shreveport, Louisiana, and didn’t know a lick about tennis. He saw to it that his daughters played selectively in junior tournaments and focused on their schoolwork first. Aside from a brief stint with legendary coach Rick Macci, Richard took over and was their primary coach when they made their professional debuts.

“The media never gave him the time of day because Richard didn’t come from a ‘tennis background,’” Katrina Adams, a former top 10 doubles player and top 100 singles player, told me. Adams is the first Black woman to serve as the president, chair, and CEO of the USTA. As a Black player on the tour, she saw the media coverage focus on the Williams sisters. She knows intimately what “the sport was offering or not offering to them.”

“It was very difficult for the media to think anything different than existing stigmas and stereotypes,” Adams told me. “As Black people, we couldn’t possibly be that smart to have the plan that Mr. Williams had in place. Our girls couldn’t possibly be that disciplined. That’s what the media assumed, and that they wanted to portray, and that’s what they did portray.”

Despite not following tradition, Richard promised, quite vocally, that his daughters would be the best players in the world, a plan that he hatched, he says, before they were born.

“My plan was simple: to bring two children out of the ghetto to the forefront of a white-dominated game. Could it be done? I hoped so. In fact, I was beyond hope. I was certain,” Richard Williams wrote in his 2014 memoir, Black and White. “Eliminating the last doubts from my mind, I wrote a final seventy-five-page tennis-training plan for myself, Oracene, and my daughters-to-be, detailing every step of the road we would travel, more than two and a half years before they were both born.”

When Venus and Serena started winning, Williams never stopped reminding anyone watching. He famously held up a whiteboard sign during the 1999 Lipton Championships, Serena and Venus’s first big tournament final, with messages like “Welcome to the Williams Show” and “I Told You So”.

Venus and Serena Williams were never afraid to say they wanted to win

Serena and Venus carried the same confidence Richard Williams instilled in them. “Right now I’m Number 5. Soon I’ll be Number 4, and that’s great. One day I’ll win the French Open, and that’ll be great. Then I’ll have to move on and win Wimbledon,” Venus told Sports Illustrated in 1999.

In that same interview, Serena vowed to win a Grand Slam too. “I can see myself lifting that [Wimbledon] plate for sure. I just can’t see it not happening,” Serena said.

Caitlin Thompson, publisher of Racquet Magazine, explained to me that tennis has an inherent level of racism and classism due to the sport’s history and barriers to entry. To her, it wasn’t a surprise that the Williams family had to battle through this. The coverage of the family and Richard being portrayed as angry, bombastic, abrasive, overly confident, was the product of a predominantly white media covering a predominantly white sport with one Black family audacious enough to say they were going to be the best.

Thompson also points out that Richard would say outrageous things like how he and his family were going to buy Rockefeller Center or that he was going to outsell Michael Jackson. That didn’t win him fans among journalists and tennis pundits who already saw his antics as outrageous.

The real trigger though, she theorizes, is that the Williams sisters were so good. It wasn’t just that the sisters said that they would beat everyone, it’s that they made good on that promise. And Richard was seen as the mastermind behind it, the person who taught his daughters to behave like this.

“So much of the early coverage was focused on how the Williams family is too loud, how they’re fixing matches against each other, how it’s brute athleticism — and you know a lot of that is racially coded. They [the tour and the media] basically treated them like they were invasive species on the tennis court,” Thompson added.

This animus was clear during the semifinals of the 1997 US Open. Irina Spirlea, a Romanian player with a monster forehand, had defeated American Monica Seles in the quarterfinal. Venus, making her US Open debut, looked like a threat to win against Spirlea. During a changeover (where players switch sides and take a break between games) in the second set, Spirlea bumped into Williams.

Later, after losing their match, Spirlea hinted that she bumped Venus on purpose. “She thinks she’s the (expletive) Venus Williams. I was like, ‘I want to see if she’s turning,” Spirlea said, describing her approach to Williams. “She didn’t.”

Richard responded, calling Spirlea a “big, tall, white turkey” (Spirlea is 5’9” and not a bird). He also said that the bump was perhaps racially motivated. “I’ve seen a lot of racial things happen to my baby,” Richard Williams told the AP at the time. “I think what happened to Venus yesterday was a racial thing.”

He added, “She ought to be glad it wasn’t Serena she bumped into. She would have been decked.”

Even though Spirlea told reporters she deliberately bumped Venus, and even though Spirlea has the distinction of being the first female player disqualified after verbally abusing officials, some outlets portrayed Richard as the aggressor for his comments. The Los Angeles Times inexplicably ran a column from a probation officer that scolded Richard for being a bad father, writing that Venus “needs to learn how to interact with all people and to differentiate between healthy competition and true racism.”

Adams points out that instead of questioning Spirlea, tennis commentators and journalists wondered if Richard would stand by his comments, and speculated that it was Venus’s fault.

“‘Oh, she did something. Venus must have said something to her. She must have this. She must have that,’” Adams said. “You know what Venus was doing? She was kicking her ass.”

A year after the bump, in 1998, Williams apologized for calling Spirlea a large festive poultry and his allegation that she was racist.

At the 2001 Indian Wells Masters, themes of Williams being the problem in the face of racism popped up again.

After losing to Venus in the quarterfinals, a player named Elena Dementieva threw out the baseless accusation that Richard Williams would decide which sister won matches against each other. She said she had this “feeling.” The Women’s Tennis Association did not comment about Dementieva and did not defend the sisters.

The next day, four minutes prior to a scheduled match against Serena, Venus pulled out of the tournament citing tendinitis. The crowd, upset that they weren’t going to see a match, lashed out. The family said in interviews that some audience members called them slurs. Serena and Venus would go on to boycott the tournament for over a decade because of these racist displays.

Instead of giving Venus the benefit of the doubt about her injury and instead of questioning Dementieva’s motives, critics of the Williams family called their integrity into doubt. Both Thompson and Adams cite that incident as troubling, saying that journalists at the time did not believe the Williams’s family account of the attacks against them. This time, the problem was that they weren’t angry enough, with LA Times columnist Bill Dwyre writing, “They deny, but with less than the normal conviction, even anger, one would expect in the face of such serious issues. How about pounding on the table and saying it ain’t so? How about some tears, some anger?”

Critics said Richard Williams was a bad influence on Venus and Serena

That same year, Hall of Famer Martina Navratilova told reporters that there wasn’t any racism in tennis. In fact, she claimed that Venus and Serena enjoyed privilege because they were Black. “There’s no racism as far as I know,” said Navratilova. “I think that people have been treating them with kid gloves because they are African-Americans, and if they were white they would have been told off before and more.”

She also implied that Richard was a bad influence and that they would be better off without him. “The girls are great. They’re great athletes, nice women. I like them a lot and their father seems to be getting in the way. That’s what I have to say about that, and he’s probably going to yell at me next time he sees me.” she said.

The idea that Richard is some kind of puppet master or a bad influence that his daughters needed to be separated from became an underlying theme. As Venus and Serena kept winning, pundits, players, and legends like Navratilova seemed to pin their grievances on Richard while simultaneously lauding his daughters’ achievements. Essentially, the narrative was that they were winning in spite of him.

In a sport that’s seen fathers punished for violent behavior, banned for abusing their daughters, and jailed for tax evasion on their daughter’s income, somehow Richard became the biggest villain.

That wasn’t lost on him.

“Would another family have been treated as mine was?” Richard wrote in his book. “The harsh reality is that [America] has not eradicated prejudice. Racial barriers have fallen in record numbers throughout the years. Blacks not only ride in the front of the bus, some of us own the bus company. The events at Indian Wells were a reminder of how much farther we had to go.”

King Richard might be for the people who never believed in him

There’s an exquisite example of Richard Williams’s behavior caught on tape, a clip that has gone viral a few times since. It’s an interview for ABC News from 1995, with correspondent John McKenzie. McKenzie is interviewing a 14-year-old Venus about her tennis dreams and he asks her why she’s so confident.

“Did you think you could beat her?” McKenzie questions Venus. “You say it so easily. Why?”

Each time, Venus responds with a smile, telling him she’s “very confident.” But after prodding her confidence one more time, Richard interrupts. He tells McKenzie not to undermine her. He says:

You’ve got to understand that you’re dealing with the image of a 14-year-old child. And this child gonna be out there playing when your old ass and me gonna be in the grave. When she say something, we done told you what’s happening. You’re dealing with a little black kid, and let her be a kid. She done answered it with a lot of confidence, leave that alone.

Richard’s interruption, at the time, could be seen as bombastic or out of line. Through today’s lens, though — and for some at the time — it’s evident that Richard was trying to protect his daughter. He understood then that Venus and Serena needed to be confident in themselves because they were going to be constantly surrounded by people who told them otherwise.

“We in the Black community, we knew that, we understood it. We knew exactly where he was coming from. We knew exactly what he was doing,” Adams told me. “I already know how much he protected them.”

It’s only fairly recently, as Serena is in the twilight of her career, chasing history, that the sport at large has truly begun to appreciate what she and her sister have accomplished.

“I remember, there was a point, and it was later than you’d think — it was somewhere around her having 16 or 17 Grand Slams — when tennis commentators kind of decided to start talking about Serena specifically as a legend and not so much the open criticism they had of her,” Thompson recalls. Prior to that, she says, pundits would talk about Serena being lazy, out of shape, or distracted.

“There’s now this sort of retroactive narrative,” she said, explaining how tennis insiders are effectively ret-conning how they treated the Williams family. “Like they’ll say, ‘I’ve always thought of Venus and Serena as being elegant, transcendent champions.’ And it’s like, really? Did you? It didn’t sound like that at the time.”

Adams echoed this idea, telling me that watching commentators negatively portray the sisters is what spurred her to become a commentator herself. “I wanted to help tell their story better. I understood the pressures that they were under. I understood the targets that were on their backs.” Adams points out that white players who have gone through very public struggles have rarely been subject to the same kind of scrutiny.

In a sense, Serena and Venus’s Hall of Fame careers and their stewardship of the sport have made it impossible to dismiss Richard Williams. Squaring away their success means at the very least some admission that he was right. He protected them and guided them through turmoil like what happened at Indian Wells, a racist incident that no player should have to endure. And when you reexamine what Williams senior said, that his kids were going to be the very best, it isn’t all that different from what coaches at prestigious tennis academies have said about their brightest proteges.

“The reconsideration of Mr. Williams’s career is for the people that never believed in him in the first place,” Adams told me. “I always knew he was a legend. And I’ve always considered him and the girls to be legends. There’s no one else like them.”

A reexamination of Richard Williams’s legacy also comes as the US culturally has had a reckoning on race and gender in the realms of theater, movies, music, and of course sports. Conversations about the hurdles and systemic bias that Black athletes experience, including Black female tennis players, are being had on a national stage. Richard, Venus, and Serena, by way of their success and their openness about their experiences, are part of that reckoning.

In a way, it feels as though Richard himself wouldn’t really care about King Richard or how history will remember his legacy. He’s always been steps ahead, as he was when he decided that his girls would be the most dominant female tennis players that history has ever seen. And he’s always been devoted to his daughters, even if there were people — and there were plenty — who weren’t able to see it at the time.

“Choosing between having a child whom you love and who loves you, and money, was easy. I found it even made it easier for me to accept my kids on the court,” Richard wrote in his memoir, asserting that his daughters’ welfare was always more important than their success. “I never was a super coach, but I sure have been, I hope, a super parent.”

https://www.vox.com/22790093/king-richa ... ers-racism
The article includes photos and links to video of both the Spirlea incident and the Williams interview with ABC.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 One tries to like him. I really do. But it is a constant drip.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Coming back to the Peng Shuai situation.
She was able to call Thomas Bach, president of the IOC. Why would she do that? Why call Bach and not Steve Simon, who is the chairman of the Association she works with/for?
Could it be that the Beijing Olympics are only two months away and the Chinese know that Bach will never utter anything bad about them?

er by the minute.

by ponchi101 last.
Man, does it feel like am empty Monday, with no tennis on TV for the whole day

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:27 pm Coming back to the Peng Shuai situation.
She was able to call Thomas Bach, president of the IOC. Why would she do that? Why call Bach and not Steve Simon, who is the chairman of the Association she works with/for?
Could it be that the Beijing Olympics are only two months away and the Chinese know that Bach will never utter anything bad about them?
er by the minute.

Yeah, surely it has to do with the danger to the Olympics that this is causing, and I'm sure Peng was encouraged or forced to call him.

At least she's alive and in one piece. Doesn't mean she's free or in a good place or that her allegations are being taken seriously, but wasn't the primary concern for her physical well-being? Some tennis people on Twitter are acting like that's never what WhereIsPengShuai was about, but I don't believe it. That was the first and foremost concern, that it was possible she was in real physical danger or worse, right? In plain language, being held in cruel conditions, being tortured, or had been killed. Or did I misread that whole thing?

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:04 pm

Great season. Now let's see if he can do better than those guys. Respectable careers but not really special. Why don't future top players have these kind of credentials? Is it because they typically don't have to spend a lot of time playing Challengers? They get wild cards to Tour events and climb up the rankings fast enough to bypass Challengers?

by ponchi101 Because the real great ones don't play challengers for too long. The great ones jump into the ATP tour by, as you say, Wild Cards and never look back. The guys and gals in the Challenger circuits are simply in the NBA's G-League, and very few make the jump to the top permanently.
It has to be said. There is a certain level of innate talent that you need to make it to any professional sport, and no amount of training will give you that. I started playing at 8, and no amount of hours on court would have led me to even the Challengers. I could have hit not 10,000 forehands, but 10 million, and I would still be a 5.0 at best.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:08 pm ...

Yeah, surely it has to do with the danger to the Olympics that this is causing, and I'm sure Peng was encouraged or forced to call him.

At least she's alive and in one piece. Doesn't mean she's free or in a good place or that her allegations are being taken seriously, but wasn't the primary concern for her physical well-being? Some tennis people on Twitter are acting like that's never what WhereIsPengShuai was about, but I don't believe it. That was the first and foremost concern, that it was possible she was in real physical danger or worse, right? In plain language, being held in cruel conditions, being tortured, or had been killed. Or did I misread that whole thing?

Sure, this is better news than no news, reversing the quote. But serious here: do you see her being allowed to leave China? At any time not only in the near future but in many years from now?
I don't. Which means we will never really know what has happened to her, what she has been told, or even what happened in the incident that she claimed happened and led to this entire situation.

by ti-amie Confirmed: ATP to introduce timed bathroom breaks for 2022
Players will only be allowed to take one break per match, at three minutes, plus two minutes extra if they change their clothes

Simon Cambers
November 22, 2021

Extended bathroom breaks, one of the most contentious issues of the 2021 season, are set to be a thing of the past on the men’s tour in 2022 after the ATP decided to introduce new rules to clamp down on those taking advantage of the current system.

The news, first reported in French sports paper L’Equipe on Monday, was confirmed to Tennis Majors by an ATP spokesman. Players will be allowed to take only one bathroom break per match, timed at a maximum of three minutes from the moment a player reaches the bathroom.

In addition, players will be allowed two minutes extra to change their clothes, ensuring that players should be back on court within a maximum of five minutes of entering the bathroom if they’re also changing their clothes). The bathroom break must be taken at the end of a set.

The rule – which was trialled at the recent Next Gen Finals in Milan – is designed to end the kind of controversies we saw this year, particularly involving Stefanos Tsitsipas.

Tsitsipas used an extended bathroom break on a number of occasions over the summer, most notably in the first round of the US Open against Andy Murray. Tsitsipas had just levelled the match at two sets apiece when he took a break of eight minutes, leaving former world No 1 Murray, who lost the decider, to say he “lost respect” for the Greek, the long break making him start to cool down on court.

Tsitsipas said he was doing nothing different to when world No 1 Novak Djokovic took a bathroom break, trailing him by two sets to love in the final at Roland-Garros, but the contentiousness is mostly related to the length of the breaks.

Under the new rules, communicated to players and seen by Tennis Majors, players will have to take their one bathroom break at the end of a set. If they’re not back in time, they will face time violations.

In addition, medical time-outs will be modified. They will remain at three minutes but must now be taken at a changeover or at the end of a set. If a player can’t play on until the changeover or set break, they must give away the points necessary to do so. The start date for this change has yet to be confirmed.

https://www.tennismajors.com/atp/confir ... 16471.html

by ponchi101

Well, there goes that plan for Stefanos to have his hair done between the 3rd and 4th set. Maybe a pony tail will be needed from now on.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:40 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:08 pm ...

Yeah, surely it has to do with the danger to the Olympics that this is causing, and I'm sure Peng was encouraged or forced to call him.

At least she's alive and in one piece. Doesn't mean she's free or in a good place or that her allegations are being taken seriously, but wasn't the primary concern for her physical well-being? Some tennis people on Twitter are acting like that's never what WhereIsPengShuai was about, but I don't believe it. That was the first and foremost concern, that it was possible she was in real physical danger or worse, right? In plain language, being held in cruel conditions, being tortured, or had been killed. Or did I misread that whole thing?
Sure, this is better news than no news, reversing the quote. But serious here: do you see her being allowed to leave China? At any time not only in the near future but in many years from now?
I don't. Which means we will never really know what has happened to her, what she has been told, or even what happened in the incident that she claimed happened and led to this entire situation.

Honestly no idea. I'd think so... you think she could be living under threat, like if she leaves, something will happen to her family? I'm not saying China isn't awful and to be trusted. I just don't know what's realistic from here. Anyway, to me Where Is Peng Shuai was about whether she was alive and unharmed physically, and then secondary is Free Peng Shuai.

by ti-amie

What did I say about wanting to do everything short of murder to win?

This is an excerpt from a much longer interview. It's for a documentary of some kind. Here's the interview in its entirety with the same English subtitles.

by ti-amie I didn't thinnk I'd listen to the entire interview but it is really very, very good. As a non Russian speaker I had to watch the subtitles so I couldn't do anything else while I was watching.

The woman doing the interview didn't pull punches at all and knows tennis. There were times Pavs had to avoid direct answers but she acknowledges the question.

If all you want is the idle chit chat about Sloane and yes Mugu (it seems no one likes her) that all comes towards the end, about 50m in.

The parts about the economics of tennis, how she started, the issues of having a parent as a coach, it's all there. Fascinating.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:19 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:40 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:08 pm ....

Honestly no idea. I'd think so... you think she could be living under threat, like if she leaves, something will happen to her family? I'm not saying China isn't awful and to be trusted. I just don't know what's realistic from here. Anyway, to me Where Is Peng Shuai was about whether she was alive and unharmed physically, and then secondary is Free Peng Shuai.

No. I get to work with Chinese crews every once in a while. The first time I work with them, upon arriving to the project, I was asked for my passport. I was surprised so I asked what for. I was told that the crew would keep it. I laughed, still being too stupid, and asked why they kept them. Then came the non-answer. and it dawned on me. They had all the passports from all the workers, so the Project Manager decided who could go. I said like hell they were going to keep mine, and if they did not like that they could talk to my rep.
The Chinese do that. They can simply keep her passport and not ever give her one again. It is that simple there. It is not that if she leaves, something will happen to her family or anybody else. It is that, if the Chinese government does not want her to leave, she simply can't. And they don't even need to retain her passport; they will block her at all airports. They do that.

by Suliso A bit like in USSR. You couldn't leave that country either whether you wanted or not. Difference is that there only those with a special exit visa could travel internationally. In China most can leave (pandemic aside) except those disfavored by the authorities.

Mind you US government could as easily block any of you from leaving, it's just that short of you being sought for some crime they don't.

by skatingfan The only thing that gave some assurance that the Peng Shuai call happened, and that it will be followed up on is that the chair of the IOC Athletes' Commission, Emma Terho, was on the call. If it was just Bach & a Chinese member of the IOC I wouldn't believe that they actually spoke to Peng Shuai.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:40 am A bit like in USSR. You couldn't leave that country either whether you wanted or not. Difference is that there only those with a special exit visa could travel internationally. In China most can leave (pandemic aside) except those disfavored by the authorities.

Mind you US government could as easily block any of you from leaving, it's just that short of you being sought for some crime they don't.

How does a country block you from leaving if you aren't detained and in custody? Another country might not let you in if you don't have a passport, but Peng could arrange help if she doesn't have her passport.

by ti-amie Remember when John Lennon couldn't leave the States?

Why couldnt John Lennon leave America?
The reason behind his deportation stemmed from a 1968 United Kingdom conviction for possession of marijuana. The US' immigration laws dictate that anyone convicted of a drug offence would not be allowed into the country.Oct. 10, 2021

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... IgHr0nuAh6

by Suliso

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:22 am
Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:40 am A bit like in USSR. You couldn't leave that country either whether you wanted or not. Difference is that there only those with a special exit visa could travel internationally. In China most can leave (pandemic aside) except those disfavored by the authorities.

Mind you US government could as easily block any of you from leaving, it's just that short of you being sought for some crime they don't.
How does a country block you from leaving if you aren't detained and in custody? Another country might not let you in if you don't have a passport, but Peng could arrange help if she doesn't have her passport.

Because in a country like China you have to show your passport upon leaving on the border and if the government has canceled it there is no way you can leave legally.

In US they could put you on a global no fly list. I've never crossed US land borders so don't know if they check your documents carefully there as well.

by ti-amie Needless to say this has caused quite a stir.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:08 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:27 pm Coming back to the Peng Shuai situation.
She was able to call Thomas Bach, president of the IOC. Why would she do that? Why call Bach and not Steve Simon, who is the chairman of the Association she works with/for?
Could it be that the Beijing Olympics are only two months away and the Chinese know that Bach will never utter anything bad about them?
er by the minute.
Yeah, surely it has to do with the danger to the Olympics that this is causing, and I'm sure Peng was encouraged or forced to call him.

^ I'm thinking that she didn't call him/them, but rather that he/they called her, and it was simply 'spun' as her calling them because that suited their agenda of deceit better.

"Players will be allowed to take only one bathroom break per match, timed at a maximum of three minutes from the moment a player reaches the bathroom."
^ But that's not enough time to leaf through the magazine!
Seriously, though - is 3 minutes enough time to deposit a 'Number 2', wipe, and wash your hands?
Talk about a pressure situation!

It's good that they will count only the time that the player is in the bathroom (obviously some sort of official will have to be with them to count the time), which eliminates 'traveling time' to and from, as the distances from the courts to the bathrooms will obviously vary.
But will this lead to some players deliberately walking very slowly to and from the bathroom?

"In addition, medical time-outs will be modified. They will remain at three minutes but must now be taken at a changeover or at the end of a set. If a player can’t play on until the changeover or set break, they must give away the points necessary to do so. The start date for this change has yet to be confirmed."
^ This is good. If you're not fit enough to play, then too bad - period. That's how it used to be before the players started being ridiculously pampered for every minor discomfort.

by oliver0001 Re: Peng Shuai: I have been to China multiple times and am fluent in Mandarin. In other words: I know and understand China. Being alive and knowing where she is does not in the least guarantee that she is well. She could be under house arrest as so many Chinese dissidents are and have been for years. You cannot leave your house/apartment unless the Chinese government wants to “proove“ that you are not under house arrest, which for the reminder you are. So even leaving your house/apartment will be impossible, so not to mention leaving the city or country.

by oliver0001 Even if you have not spoken out or done anything, doesn‘t guarantee you are safe from retaliation. Once I was staying in China with a Chinese family. We forgot to report to the police within 24 hours as is mandatory for foreigners. Somehow they found out. From that moment on and for the next week, there was a police patrol outside the apartment for 24 hours each day. The Chinese family was frightened to death.

by ti-amie WTA Award Nominees

Nominees for 2021 WTA Player of the Year Award

Ash Barty
Barbora Krejcikova
Emma Raducanu
Garbine Muguruza
Naomi Osaka
Aryna Sabalenka
Iga Swiatek

Nominees for 2021 WTA Comeback Player of the Year Award

Carla Suarez Navarro
Sania Mirza
Elena Vesnina
Ana Konjuh

Nominees for the 2021 WTA Most Improved Player Award

Leylah Fernandez
Maria Sakkari
Barbora Krejcikova
Ons Jabeur
Anett Kontaveit
Paula Badosa
Jessica Pegula

Nominees for 2021 WTA Newcomer of the Year

Emma Raducanu
Mayar Sherif
Ann Li
Clara Tauson
Camila Osorio
Liudmila Samsonova

by ti-amie My votes:

Nominees for 2021 WTA Player of the Year Award

Ash Barty
Barbora Krejcikova
Emma Raducanu
Garbine Muguruza
Naomi Osaka
Aryna Sabalenka
Iga Swiatek

Nominees for 2021 WTA Comeback Player of the Year Award

Carla Suarez Navarro
Sania Mirza
Elena Vesnina
Ana Konjuh

Nominees for the 2021 WTA Most Improved Player Award

Leylah Fernandez
Maria Sakkari
Barbora Krejcikova
Ons Jabeur
Anett Kontaveit
Paula Badosa
Jessica Pegula

Nominees for 2021 WTA Newcomer of the Year

Emma Raducanu
Mayar Sherif
Ann Li
Clara Tauson
Camila Osorio
Liudmila Samsonova

by ponchi101 Barty, CSN, Anett and Raducanu.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:13 am WTA Award Nominees

Nominees for 2021 WTA Player of the Year Award

Ash Barty
Barbora Krejcikova
Emma Raducanu
Garbine Muguruza
Naomi Osaka
Aryna Sabalenka
Iga Swiatek

Nominees for 2021 WTA Comeback Player of the Year Award

Carla Suarez Navarro
Sania Mirza
Elena Vesnina
Ana Konjuh

Nominees for the 2021 WTA Most Improved Player Award

Leylah Fernandez
Maria Sakkari
Barbora Krejcikova
Ons Jabeur
Anett Kontaveit
Paula Badosa
Jessica Pegula

Nominees for 2021 WTA Newcomer of the Year

Emma Raducanu
Mayar Sherif
Ann Li
Clara Tauson
Camila Osorio
Liudmila Samsonova

Emma nominated for 'Player of the Year', but not Leylah?
Leylah arguably had a better year than Emma. Leylah beat several top 10 (and former top 10) players on the way to the U.S. Open Final. And, apart from Wimbledon and the U.S. Open, we didn't see Emma at all.
Neither Leylah nor Emma should win this category - but, really... you can't nominate one without nominating the other.

Comeback Player should go to Navarro - not for her results, but for her courage and resilience.
Honourable mention to Mirza.

Leylah gets nominated for 'Most Improved Player', but not Emma, who was nowhere the year before and is nominated for Player of the Year? Leylah was more improved last year than she was this year, in truth. The nominees make less and less sense as we read on.
Most Improved should be close between Krejcikova and Badosa. Kontaveit had a nice run at the end of the season, but the other 2 were more consistent throughout a greater portion of the year.

Newcomer of the Year is ridiculous. Apparently, their definition of a 'newcomer' changes from year to year to suit whatever agenda they have. Leylah should have won it hands down last year (she was Wertheim's pick), but they gave it to Podoroska based solely on her Roland Garros. But Podoroska was not a newcomer - she had been on the tour for years. By that criteria, Leylah should get newcomer this year, as she's been on the tour for fewer years than Podoroska was last year. 'Newcomer' should also go to a player who looks like they will be at least in the top 30 for some years to come - Podoroska has done nothing except for that Roland Garros last year, and never looked like she would.

I can only figure that the nominees for these 'awards' were not chosen by a committee of people who are both knowledgeable and experienced in tennis, but rather by one drunk individual whose knowledge of tennis is limited to having watched half of one Wimbledon Final in the 1990s.
I hope to hell that same person doesn't pick the winners, too...

by skatingfan Bary, Vesnina, Krejcikova, Raducanu

by patrick

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:13 am WTA Award Nominees

Nominees for 2021 WTA Player of the Year Award

Ash Barty
Barbora Krejcikova
Emma Raducanu
Garbine Muguruza
Naomi Osaka
Aryna Sabalenka
Iga Swiatek

Nominees for 2021 WTA Comeback Player of the Year Award

Carla Suarez Navarro
Sania Mirza
Elena Vesnina
Ana Konjuh

Nominees for the 2021 WTA Most Improved Player Award

Leylah Fernandez
Maria Sakkari
Barbora Krejcikova
Ons Jabeur
Anett Kontaveit
Paula Badosa
Jessica Pegula

Nominees for 2021 WTA Newcomer of the Year

Emma Raducanu
Mayar Sherif
Ann Li
Clara Tauson
Camila Osorio
Liudmila Samsonova

Barty. Guess one USO title put you on the list and getting overhyped for it.

CSN for the courage but Vesnina had the best results on the court,

Jabeur for making history during the year. Kontaveit came on too late.

Tauson. Again, one USO title put you on the list.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I gather that when you apply for a job with the IOC there is a tick box that says "Are you a hypocrite?". And if you don't tick it, you are.

by Deuce Dick Pound has always been a no-nonsense stand-up man of principle, and his record on various matters shows that (he's Canadian, after all

).
As such, he has always stood apart from his peers in the Olympic administration.

patrick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:29 pm
Barty. Guess one USO title put you on the list and getting overhyped for it.

CSN for the courage but Vesnina had the best results on the court,

Jabeur for making history during the year. Kontaveit came on too late.

Tauson. Again, one USO title put you on the list.

To be fair to Emma, she also had a pretty good Wimbledon, coming out of nowhere.

by the Moz Barty Vesnina Jabeur Radacanu.

by patrick

Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:48 am Dick Pound has always been a no-nonsense stand-up man of principle, and his record on various matters shows that (he's Canadian, after all ).
As such, he has always stood apart from his peers in the Olympic administration.

patrick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:29 pm
Barty. Guess one USO title put you on the list and getting overhyped for it.

CSN for the courage but Vesnina had the best results on the court,

Jabeur for making history during the year. Kontaveit came on too late.

Tauson. Again, one USO title put you on the list.
To be fair to Emma, she also had a pretty good Wimbledon, coming out of nowhere.

Still she is not player of the year worthy. What is her WTA record that is International event and above? No 125 or challenger event included.

by Suliso

patrick wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:09 pm
Still she is not player of the year worthy. What is her WTA record that is International event and above? No 125 or challenger event included.

Player of the year??? We are talking about her as a newcomer of the year, aren't we?

by Liamvalid There’s no way they can give the “player of the year” award to Raducanu just for her heroics at a tournament and a half, but I also think it would be a bit strange not to put a slam winner on the short list

by ponchi101 Right now, you tell a 15 yo: "You can have Emma Raducanu's career, or you can have Pavlyuchenkova's, Pliskova's, Demetieva's or Cornet's career".
We know what they would choose.
I know, it is not fair, but the sport revolves around the Slams. And Raducanu's is a club of one (sole person, male or female, to win a slam coming from the qualies. We know that too).
And yes, it is not player OTY. It is newcomer OTY that I am talking about.

by ashkor87 Doubles Players who became great singles players...
Krejcikova is the latest example, are there others? Barty, perhaps! Can't think of a recent such transition/progression among the men...Bob Lutz in earlier times, perhaps...

by Deuce

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:02 am Doubles Players who became great singles players...
Krejcikova is the latest example, are there others? Barty, perhaps! Can't think of a recent such transition/progression among the men...Bob Lutz in earlier times, perhaps...

Other players who I believe first established themselves as good doubles players, and then had success in singles...

Kevin Curren (with Steve Denton)
Anders Jarryd (with Stefan Edberg)
Peter McNamara (with Paul McNamee)

Pam Shriver? (with Martina Navratilova)

.

by ti-amie

by Deuce That's nice.
I hope she also watches tennis from past generations.

by ti-amie

by dmforever

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:02 am Doubles Players who became great singles players...
Krejcikova is the latest example, are there others? Barty, perhaps! Can't think of a recent such transition/progression among the men...Bob Lutz in earlier times, perhaps...

Sam Stosur too?

Kevin

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:02 am Doubles Players who became great singles players...
Krejcikova is the latest example, are there others? Barty, perhaps! Can't think of a recent such transition/progression among the men...Bob Lutz in earlier times, perhaps...

interesting thought... I think most players can't concentrate on both singles and dubs. A successful doubles player would have to sacrifice time (practice, recovery) to invest in their singles, and it's a risk. Most doubles players don't make enough money to take a hit to their income, if their doubles results slip while they are pursuing singles. Their partner might not be supportive, initially or eventually. It's easier for a successful singles player to translate that to doubles, if they can do well without putting in a lot of dedicated doubles practice. Like Azarenka, Sabalenka, Shapovalov, Swiatek - I don't know for a fact that they didn't practice doubles a lot, but I'd be surprised.

Luisa Stefani talked about this when I interviewed her at the Open. When she started out on tour, the results came faster in doubles. She wanted to make money so her parents didn't have to support her, so she went where the money/results were, even though she really wanted and intended play singles. Perhaps the goal is to save enough from doubles to eventually support a few years of not making much in singles but still afford a coach and a lot of traveling. But she is already 24, and she could be 26 or 27 before that ever happens. She may never find that opening. If she hadn't gotten hurt in the US Open semis, she might have won the title and qualified for the WTA finals. She lost a lot of money and a big opportunity when that happened.

It sure helps to come from a country that hosts tournaments so you can get a wild card and a shot at a chunk of points and prize money.

by ashkor87 Very true...then we have Sabalenka, who has abandoned doubles to focus on singles...McEnroe never practised, said doubles was his practice..those days are gone, I guess..the game is so demanding now ..

by ti-amie

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:14 am Very true...then we have Sabalenka, who has abandoned doubles to focus on singles...McEnroe never practised, said doubles was his practice..those days are gone, I guess..the game is so demanding now ..

You're 100% correct. There are very few who show up with no abs or muscle tone on either tour.

by ponchi101 Long gone days. Connors said it years ago. When he came to the tour, there were only two athletes on the tour: Borg and himself. Although I would disagree (Laver was a monster of an athlete, Stan Smith was an athlete that played tennis, pretty soon Vilas came around), it was not until the forgotten man of tennis, Ivan Lendl, and Navratilova, started getting into the best possible shape ever that we started seeing today's bodies.
Of course, Medvedev is proving all this wrong, but he is still an athlete. His body fat index must be 4%.

by JazzNU

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez Just 10%. Screw them.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:12 pm

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Further proof that in China, all commercial entities and natural citizens are free to do as they wish.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:49 am Long gone days. Connors said it years ago. When he came to the tour, there were only two athletes on the tour: Borg and himself. Although I would disagree (Laver was a monster of an athlete, Stan Smith was an athlete that played tennis, pretty soon Vilas came around), it was not until the forgotten man of tennis, Ivan Lendl, and Navratilova, started getting into the best possible shape ever that we started seeing today's bodies.
Of course, Medvedev is proving all this wrong, but he is still an athlete. His body fat index must be 4%.

Agree with you about Borg..I remember one of those quirky shows on TV - they had 10 champion athletes competing in 9 events other than their own (don't remember exactly) - on average, you would expect each to win 1 or 2...they are all champion athletes, after all..Borg was one of them, and he won 6 or 7 events!!

by ponchi101 Plus, remember his legendary 36 BPM heart rate. I know, I know, I know, different eras, but when Uncle Tony said that Rafa was not the greatest clay court player of all time (Rafa had won his 7th RG at the time) because HE (Tony) remembered Borg, I could only say: "Try to play 5 sets at Roland Garros with a 16 ounce wood racquet".
Sure, Rafa has made that a moot point, but Bjorn was an absolute animal.

by ti-amie For Sabalenka fans

by ti-amie IMG Acquires Mutua Madrid Open Tennis, Acciona Open de España Golf Tournaments
By K.J. Yossma

Endeavor-owned IMG, which produces and distributes sports and entertainment media, has struck a deal with Super Slam Ltd and its affiliates to acquire the Mutua Madrid Open tennis tournament and the Acciona Open de España golf tournament.

As part of the acquisition, Madrid Trophy Promotion SLU (MTP), which operates the Mutua Madrid Open and Acciona Open de España golf tournament, will become part of IMG. Gerard Tsobanian, MTP’s CEO and tournament director, becomes senior vice president in IMG’s global tennis events division, led by Gabin Forbes, and will continue to oversee the day to day running of the tournaments along with his team.

The Mutua Madrid Open joins tennis tournaments such as the Miami Open and other ATP and WTA events on the IMG roster. In 2019, IMG moved the Miami Open to the 350,000-capacity Hard Rock Stadium (also home to the Miami Dolphins) where it now boasts one of the largest broadcast tennis audiences outside of the Grand Slams and tour finals.

“The Mutua Madrid Open will be a strong addition to our global events portfolio and tennis business, which will now boast two of the three mandatory combined events on both tours,” Sam Zussman, co-president of Media and Events at IMG, said in a statement. “We’re looking forward to leveraging Endeavor’s broader network to further enhance the fan experience and add value across production, media, brand partnerships, retail, and hospitality, just as we’ve done with the Miami Open.”

Subject to ATP / WTA and regulatory approvals, the deal is expected to close in the first quarter of 2022.

IMG were advised by Latham & Watkins LLP.

https://variety.com/2021/biz/news/img-m ... 235127039/

by ti-amie

by ti-amie I wonder what it cost to buy Tiriac out?

by ti-amie

by JazzNU TBD? More like a guarantee. It's how IMG operates.

Wonder if Feliciano stays on with this move.

by ponchi101 ITF: "We don't want to punish a billion people".
Nope, that is what the Chinese government does. Killing quite a few, too.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:38 pm ITF: "We don't want to punish a billion people".
Nope, that is what the Chinese government does. Killing quite a few, too.

Barely 1/10th of those billion people showed up to watch tennis. Who are they kidding?

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:49 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:38 pm ITF: "We don't want to punish a billion people".
Nope, that is what the Chinese government does. Killing quite a few, too.
Barely 1/10th of those billion people showed up to watch tennis. Who are they kidding?

I/10? More like 1/1,000,000.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:49 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:38 pm ITF: "We don't want to punish a billion people".
Nope, that is what the Chinese government does. Killing quite a few, too.
Barely 1/10th of those billion people showed up to watch tennis. Who are they kidding?

Right? Very strange wording. Felt like I could've written more compelling and convincing spin in my sleep.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:01 pm IMG Acquires Mutua Madrid Open Tennis, Acciona Open de España Golf Tournaments

This is a disturbing trend.
The definition of 'conflict of interest'...

by JazzNU

by ponchi101 The expected ones, really. I have no issues with any of the prizes.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie People are saying that what this company did to F1 should be a warning to Tennis. I could only find an article from three years ago about it.

CVC ownership of F1 should serve as a warning to Premiership Rugby
Giles Richards

On the eve of Premiership Rugby’s decision over the purchase offer from CVC, they may want to consider how the private equity firm’s tenure in charge of Formula One turned out

Mon 10 Sep 2018 14.48 BST

Should Premiership Rugby’s club owners reject the purchase offer from private equity firm CVC on Tuesday, as is expected, they might consider this a hospital pass rightly declined. The owners and rugby fans should be under no illusion about what to expect if the experience of Formula One’s ownership by the company is anything to go by. CVC expect a return from investment and they pursued that ruthlessly in F1.

CVC owned F1 between 2006 and 2017, when it was taken over by Liberty Media. The then deputy team principal of Force India, Bob Fernley, accused CVC during that time of “raping the sport”. In 2016 he summed up everything abut the firm’s relationship with F1 in a single sentence. “All their actions have been taken to extract as much money from the sport as possible and put as little in as possible,” he said.

Among the teams Fernley was usually a lone voice of dissent but he was spot on about the lack of investment. CVC paid approximately £1.4bn for its majority stake. Over the next decade estimates suggest that it made up to £3.5bn. In 2014 it is reported they took in £347m from a turnover of £1.25bn, at that point representing a return on investment of more than 350%. Little wonder they held on to F1 for more than twice as long as their usual investments: it was the fruit machine that kept paying out.

When they did sell, F1 was valued at £8bn but the sport was poorer. CVC had employed Bernie Ecclestone to run the business for them, concerned mainly that the returns remained high. Ecclestone delivered with pitiless efficiency.

The hosting fees for race promoters rose exponentially as state-backed venues willing to pay a fortune for the PR value of hosting F1 left the classic European tracks repeatedly making a loss and, in cases such as Silverstone and Monza, in danger of bankruptcy.

At the same time Ecclestone oversaw a major departure from free-to-air TV to pay-to-view. From 2019 F1 will be exclusive in the UK to Sky for six years in a deal reportedly worth £600m. Good numbers for CVC but not so the dwindling worldwide audience that has fallen by 137m since 2010. A falling audience and exposure has its effect on sponsors, thus more had to be squeezed from TV and promoters and consequently the teams became more reliant on payments from these funds delivered by F1. There was nary a peep of disapproval from the teams after the Sky deal, taking jam today, over the sport’s future.

CVC appeared to have no interest in that future. They appear to have spent very little on promotion, investment or attempting to engage with a younger audience. Ecclestone was utterly dismissive of social media.

The pursuit of profit may also have led to failure of governance, so profound that in 2016 the drivers took the unprecedented step of openly criticising the way the sport was run in a statement describing the decision-making process as “obsolete and ill-structured”.

It was management that had left payments between teams wildly inequitable and was responsible for the two-division haves and have-nots that now occupy the grid. Worse still in a sport awash with money, teams were still going bankrupt, though CVC denied responsibility for cash problems.

There was pursuit of profit at every possible level but with apparently little interest in making the experience better or more popular. It was a distasteful, cynical process that left F1 tarnished.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... ugby-union

by ti-amie Tennis is already scarce on free TV. If this company stays true to form either you're paying or you're not seeing it, it being tennis.

by ti-amie

The WTA is out.

The ITF is out.

What will the ATP do?

by ponchi101 What will the ATP do?

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:34 pm What will the ATP do?

Yep.

Doesn't it have a stake in one of the entities behind it's tournaments there?

by ti-amie WTA schedule announced for Australian Summer of Tennis
Week 1 of the 2022 season will feature a WTA 500 event in Adelaide and two WTA 250s in Melbourne, and Week 2 will see a WTA 500 event in Sydney and a WTA 250 in Adelaide.

By WTA Staff

Details of the 2022 Australian Summer of Tennis have been announced by Tennis Australia, with 17 professional tournaments to be staged before the Australian Open.

The WTA season will begin in Week 1 with three tournaments - a WTA 500 event in Adelaide (Jan. 2 to Jan. 9), and two WTA 250 events in Melbourne (Jan. 3 to Jan. 9).

This year, the Adelaide International was held in the week following the Australian Open, and was won by Iga Swiatek with victory over Belinda Bencic in the final.

In Week 2, a WTA 500 event in Sydney will mark the return of women's tennis to the New South Wales capital for the first time since 2019. The one-off Sydney Tennis Classic (Jan. 9 to Jan. 15) will be a combined tournament with the ATP.

Week 2 will also see a second Adelaide International event take place (Jan. 9 to Jan. 15), this time at WTA 250 level.

Australian Open qualifying will take place in Melbourne Park between Jan. 10 and Jan. 14. Main draw play at 2022's first major will run between Jan. 17 and Jan. 30.

In addition, two ITF W60 tournaments will take place between Jan. 2 and Jan. 9 in Bendigo and Traralgon.

https://www.wtatennis.com/news/2368655/ ... -of-tennis

by ti-amie No info yet for ATP events

Entry deadlines for the 2022 ATP events in Aus are

Wednesday 8 December:
for the 1st week Adelaide 1 and Melbourne 250
Monday 13 December:
for the 2nd week Adelaide 2 and Sydney

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:16 am People are saying that what this company did to F1 should be a warning to Tennis. I could only find an article from three years ago about it.

CVC ownership of F1 should serve as a warning to Premiership Rugby
Giles Richards

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... ugby-union

Very disturbing, but not at all surprising.
To the corporate world, sports is but a pawn to use and milk as much money out of as possible, then run away with the loot. On smaller scales, it's called 'looting'.
This is the direction the world is going in, tragically. Pure and absolute selfishness and greed. Corporations owning everything under huge umbrellas. Independent business is dying a quick death. Baseball, football, hockey stadiums/arenas are no longer named for tradition, but instead are named very impersonally for the highest bidding corporation.

I wonder how long it will be before corporations begin bidding to name people's children.
Don't laugh - that's the direction we're headed in...

About The Corporation

Anyone who hasn't seen this film yet should really make the time to watch it...

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:50 pm No info yet for ATP events

Entry deadlines for the 2022 ATP events in Aus are

Wednesday 8 December:
for the 1st week Adelaide 1 and Melbourne 250
Monday 13 December:
for the 2nd week Adelaide 2 and Sydney

They posted the first half of the year 2 weeks ago.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/atp-rel ... 022-season

The actual calendar link appears to be dead on this specific page though, so use the one on the tournament page.

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:35 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:50 pm No info yet for ATP events

Entry deadlines for the 2022 ATP events in Aus are

Wednesday 8 December:
for the 1st week Adelaide 1 and Melbourne 250
Monday 13 December:
for the 2nd week Adelaide 2 and Sydney
They posted the first half of the year 2 weeks ago.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/atp-rel ... 022-season

The actual calendar link appears to be dead on this specific page though, so use the one on the tournament page.

I got a 404 error when I clicked on the link to the actual calendar.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:08 am
I got a 404 error when I clicked on the link to the actual calendar.

You can see it here. https://www.atptour.com/en/tournaments

Click on the 2021-2022 Calendar on the top right. But it's a PDF download, not a website link. I'll see if I can get a screenshot or an image of it in the tournament page in the meantime and that can serve as a reference in the meantime (assuming I can do it).

ETA: A bit more of a hassle than I was thinking, but will post a photo in the tournament thread.

by ti-amie

I'm surprised Ons wasn't invited in the first place.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez Wonder if Thiem is questionable for the Australian, then.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:24 pm

by ti-amie Via @enrico maria riva and @threadreaderapp

2021 atp stats recap:
most matches played

Norrie 77
Medvedev 76
Rublev 76
Zverev 74
Tsitsipas 74
Ruud 74
Sinner 71

2021 atp stats recap:
most matches won

Medvedev 63
Zverev 59
Ruud 57
Djokovic 55
Tsitsipas 55
Rublev 53
Norrie 52
Sinner 49

2021 atp stats recap:
most tiebreaks played

Opelka 38
Popyrin 36
Tiafoe 36
Sinner 35
Fritz 35
Zverev 34
Hurkacz 33

2021 atp stats recap:
most tiebreaks won

Popyrin 23
Zverev 23
Opelka 22
Sinner 21
Isner 21
Hurkacz 20
Fritz 20
Berrettini 19
Tiafoe 19

2021 atp stats recap:
most aces

Bublik 840
Zverev 749
Opelka 737
Isner 701
Medvedev 652
Berrettini 614
Hurkacz 580
Harris 576

2021 atp stats recap:
most double faults

Bublik 424
Paire 321
Shapovalov 314
Zverev 267
Auger-Aliassime 250
Medvedev 227

2021 atp stats recap:
1st serve points won %

Isner 79,27
Berrettini 79,13
Medvedev 78,26
Cilic 78,00
Zverev 77,34
Opelka 77,06
Bublik 76,92
Shapovalov 76,85

2021 atp stats recap:
2nd serve points won %

Tsitsipas 57,29
Ruud 56,66
Isner 55,97
Opelka 54,78
Nishikori 54,53
Carreno Busta 54,28
Sinner 54,22
Djokovic 54,16

*min 20 matches

2021 atp stats recap:
break points saved %

Berrettini 73,03
Shapovalov 69,67
Humbert 67,36
Korda 66,47
Tsitsipas 66,16
Opelka 66,16
Evans 66.12

*minimo 20 partite

2021 atp stats recap:
1st serve return won %

Djokovic 35,82
Schwartzman 35,45
Nadal 34,33
Garin 33,33
Medvedev 33,12
Alcaraz 33,12
Goffin 32,26
de Minaur 31,92

2021 atp stats recap:
2nd serve return won %

Nadal 57,25
Medvedev 55,49
Djokovic 55,26
Bautista Agut 54,99
Schwartzman 54,80
Rublev 54,11
Ruud 53,85
Zverev 53,44

2021 stats recap:
break points won %

Medvedev 47,30
Schwartzman 46,05
Seppi 45,80
Djokovic 44,99
Ruud 44,83
Norrie 44,76
Herbert 44,76

*min 20 matches

2021 stats recap:
return games won %

Nadal 35,62
Djokovic 34,60
Schwartzman 33,94
Alcaraz 30,90
Medvedev 30,65
Norrie 27,99
Delbonis 27,61
Zverev 27,58

2021 stats recap:
best deciding set %

Ruud 83.3
Berrettini 81.8
Medvedev 73.7
Coria 72.7
Alcaraz 71.4
Thompson 71.4
Djokovic 68.8

2021 stats recap:
best win % on clay

Nadal 86.4
Djokovic 85.7
Ruud 84.8
Tsitsipas 82.1
Carreno Busta 81.0
Zverev 77.8
Berrettini 76.5
Norrie 73.7

2021 stats recap:
most wins on clay

Ruud 28
Tsitsipas 23
Delbonis 23
Nadal 19
Ramos Vinolas 19
Djokovic 18
Carreno Busta 17
Djere 17

2021 stats recap:
best win % on hard

Djokovic 88.2
Medvedev 86.4
Zverev 82.0
Sinner 73.6
Ruud 73.0
Tsitsipas 71.1
Berrettini 70.8
Ivashka 70.4

2021 stats recap:
most wins on hard

Medvedev 51
Zverev 41
Sinner 39
Rublev 37
Tsitsipas 32
Norrie 32
Djokovic 30
Hurkacz 30

2021 stats recap:
best win % on grass

Djokovic 100
Berrettini 91.7
Anderson 85.7
Cilic 81.8
Humbert 80.0
Brooksby 80.0
Medvedev 77.8
Rublev 77.8

2021 stats recap:
most wins on grass

Berrettini 11
Auger-Aliassime 10
Cilic 9
Thompson 9
Humbert 8
de Minaur 8
Shapovalov 8
Djokovic 7
Medvedev 7
Bublik/Querrey 7

2021 stats recap:
most top 10 wins

Djokovic 14
Zverev 12
Medvedev 10
Karatsev 5
Tsitsipas 5
Nadal 4
Rublev 4
Tiafoe 4
Hurkacz 4
FAA 4

2021 stats recap:
most slam wins

Djokovic 27
Medvedev 20
Zverev 17
Berrettini 16
Auger-Aliassime 12
Tsitsipas 12
Schwartzman 11
Nadal 9
Rublev 9

Nadal 4
Rublev 4
Tiafoe 4
Hurkacz 4
FAA 4

2021 stats recap:
most masters 1000 wins

Tsitsipas 20
Zverev 19
Medvedev 18
Rublev 17
Ruud 16
Hurkacz 16
Isner 12
Opelka 12

2021 stats recap:
most 500 wins

Rublev 14
Sinner 13
Tsitsipas 13
Norrie 12
Nishikori 12
Zverev 10
FAA 10

I hope this doesn't interfere with what Mick is doing. If it does PM me and I'll delete it.

by ponchi101 I would not think so. He is doing historical sets, this is just 2021.
About Ons NOT being already invited to Mubadala. Very odd, indeed. She is, after all, nothing more than the most successful player, man or woman, in from Africa or a Muslim country ever. Should have been automatic.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:22 pm
I'm surprised Ons wasn't invited in the first place.

Really strange. By far the most engaged I've ever seen a crowd in Dubai or Doha was when Ons was playing.

Screen Shot 2021-12-15 at 9.55.08 AM.png

by JazzNU Didn't Thiem pull out of Davis Cup too? Seems like he just committed to things at the end of the season hoping he'd be able to return by then and it didn't work out that he was ready to go as soon as initial projections.

And it's definitely not about a 12 month timeline, more likely 6 months for PR. Thiem was injured at a grass court tournament this season.

by ti-amie

by MJ2004 Sorry I can’t post it here, but in case you can find/access it, FT has a great 13 minute overview video today on the business of tennis, titled:

FT Scoreboard: Tennis: the players struggling to break even

Example given: player staying in a brothel because it was cheap.

by JazzNU

MJ2004 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:24 pm Sorry I can’t post it here, but in case you can find/access it, FT has a great 13 minute overview video today on the business of tennis, titled:

FT Scoreboard: Tennis: the players struggling to break even

Example given: player staying in a brothel because it was cheap.

by JazzNU I haven't listen to this. But given the example provided, just want to say, I'm sure tennis fans will listen to this and think it's startling and there must be change, and it makes a difference and has an effect on a player's development to go through this, etc., etc....And then come January those same fans will be talking about how Jessica Pegula pulled herself up the rankings with nothing but hard work and determination.

by MJ2004 I didn’t check YouTube. Thanks Jazz!

by Deuce In terms of player income, I don't see where tennis is much different than any other sport - especially proportionally. It's just that in other sports - such as team sports -, there are clearer distinctions between the minor leagues and the highest level.
Even though player salaries are more or less guaranteed in team sports, players in the minor leagues of baseball, hockey, football, soccer, basketball, etc. are struggling, as well, are they not?
Sure, they don't have to pay for accommodations, etc. - but proportionally compared to the 'minor leagues' of tennis, I don't think there's much difference.

In tennis, you play better and get good results, you make more money. Therefore, your income is directly proportional to your success, or talent.
Seems fair enough to me.

by ti-amie

by Deuce This is hardly the first time that America has made a celebrity out of someone's reprehensible behaviour.
In a country where 'celebrity' is valued more than anything else (with the possible exception of money and guns), this is par for the course.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:28 pm

Will we still be getting the head-in-the-sand John Isner fans who haven't seen enough evidence yet that he's hardcore MAGA, or will this finally be enough for them? Cause this ish has been crystal clear for years.

by ponchi101 I wanted to give this one a bit more thought.
This kid (Rittenhouse), properly groomed, can become a very important figure in the USA. He can become the poster child for the 2nd amendment crowd: the kid that used his WMD in self defense, "proving" all their ideas correct. Given some time, he can become a representative and talk about that one day in which he "had to" exercise his American right to bear arms to protect himself.
Of course Martina is right, but she is the wrong vessel for that information. A gay, naturalized American is precisely what most of the crowd that likes Rittenhouse hates, so she is fueling him. Also, the kid has been totally defiant, showing no remorse whatsoever, which will earn him even more points for a long time. It must be stressed: he was acquitted. Right, wrong, a reflection of the American legal system, he was acquitted, which basically gives him a carte blanche to do all these shows and make any claim about guns.
Get ready, in 2040, for Senator Kyle Rittenhouse. A "Real" American.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:31 pm It must be stressed: he was acquitted. Right, wrong, a reflection of the American legal system, he was acquitted, which basically gives him a carte blanche to do all these shows and make any claim about guns.

No, it doesn't need to be stressed. How often is it stressed that OJ was acquitted?

by dmforever

JazzNU wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:27 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:28 pm

Will we still be getting the head-in-the-sand John Isner fans who haven't seen enough evidence yet that he's hardcore MAGA, or will this finally be enough for them? Cause this ish has been crystal clear for years.

Thanks for posting this. He can't retire fast enough for me.

Kevin

by ponchi101

JazzNU wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:29 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:31 pm It must be stressed: he was acquitted. Right, wrong, a reflection of the American legal system, he was acquitted, which basically gives him a carte blanche to do all these shows and make any claim about guns.
No, it doesn't need to be stressed. How often is it stressed that OJ was acquitted?

I do, JazzNu. On the few occasions that the case comes up, I make that point. OJ was acquitted. And this kid too.
It would bring us back to our conversation (you and I) about the legal American system.

by Deuce A slightly new twist...

Peng Shuai Denies Sexual Assault Allegations...
(Best to ignore the first video - of the reporter, and jump to reading the article.)

.

by mmmm8 Here's an example of Peng Shuai's bad English:

by ponchi101 Straight out of 1984. If you revise it and there are no documents or "memories" of the event, it never happened.
I do not want to say I am an expert in Chinese cultural phenomenon, but I have worked with them in both land and marine environments. Very difficult, as they are always kept aside from us, the clients. There is always one Chinese person that hold apparently no job, until you realize he is the party's man (party as in Government). He is the person to keep them all straight, and holds incredible power over everybody else. One word from him, and you are back in China, never to be allowed out again.
This reversal simply seems, to me, as more proof that everything she originally said was real.

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:44 pm One word from him, and you are back in China, never to be allowed out again.

Important to remember what happens to one's family if you should fail to comply. Minimum they would restrict the movements of your closest friends & family, and maybe send them along to a reeducation centre, or prison, or just have them disappear all together.

by meganfernandez Anyone watching Academy Life on Tennis Channel Plus, hosted by Alize Lim? Loving it. She goes to different top academies, does a training session (with Moya, for one), chats with the owner (Toni Nadal, Patrick M, Magnus Norman), talks to a player and tours the facility. There are fun cameos by former and current players - even Mary Pierce, hitting her famous front-facing tweener.

Lim's recent episode of Craig Shapiro's tennis podcast was great, too.

by ti-amie

Translated from French by Google

For the second year in a row,
@leylahfernandez
is Tennis Canada's Player of the Year! The
@usopen
finalist has shown the world that she is ready to be part of the tennis elite - and Gaby Dabrowski has shown that she will stay there for a long time.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:07 pm

Wow, this and the King Richard portrayal. Bad few weeks for Arantxa.

by ponchi101 Well, she is certainly NOT the boring player she was on court.
Wow.

by ti-amie 23 Dec 2021

Provisional suspension imposed on Alejandro Gomez

Alejandro Gomez has been provisionally suspended under Article 7.12.1 of the 2021 Tennis Anti-Doping Programme (the "Programme"), pending determination of the charge against him at a full hearing pursuant to Article 8 of the Programme.

Mr. Gomez, a 30-year-old player from Colombia, provided a urine sample on 19 October 2021 in association with his participation in the Bogota Challenger held in Bogota, Colombia from 18 October to 24 October 2021. That sample was sent to the World Anti-Doping Agency (“WADA”) accredited laboratory in Montreal, Canada for analysis, and was found to contain cocaine metabolite. Cocaine is a Non-Specified substance, which is prohibited under category S6 of the 2021 WADA Prohibited List (Stimulants), and therefore also prohibited under the Programme. Positive tests for Non-Specified Substances carry a mandatory Provisional Suspension.

Mr. Gomez was sent a pre-charge notice of an Anti-Doping Rule Violation under Article 2.1 of the Programme (presence of a Prohibited Substance in a Player’s Sample) and/or Article 2.2 (Use of a Prohibited Substance without a valid TUE) on 30 November and was Provisionally Suspended with effect from 15 December. Mr. Gomez had (and retains) the right to apply to the Chair of the Independent Tribunal convened to hear his case why the Provisional Suspension should not be imposed (or should be vacated), but has not exercised that right to date.

https://antidoping.itftennis.com/news/322959.aspx

by ti-amie

Vansh
@vanshv2k
Dec 22
Other Active Players

Bencic & Vandeweghe: 6-6 (50%)
Muchova: 3-3 (50%)
Kanepi: 8-10 (44.4%)
Sevastova: 3-4 (42.9%)
Konjuh: 2-3 (40%)
Mladenovic: 3-6 (33.3%)
Hsieh: 4-12 (25%)
Mertens: 2-6 (25%)
Cirstea & Pironkova: 4-13 (23.5%)
Rogers: 2-7 (22.2%)
Svitolina: 1-8 (11.1%)

by ti-amie Very interesting re Barty.

by dmforever

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:18 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:07 pm
Wow, this and the King Richard portrayal. Bad few weeks for Arantxa.

It looks like she and her now ex husband had years to pay off that debt but never did, and the bank, as a last resort, filed criminal charges. Wow.

Kevin

by ti-amie I knew that ex husband of hers was involved somehow.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:07 pm

Is she in actual jeopardy of going to jail or is this another one of those Spanish tax cases they levy against their stars that they've become well known for that will ultimately end in a hefty fine and a suspended sentence?

by ti-amie From what I've read she and the ex ran some tax avoidance scam, maybe involving what their legal residence was, got caught, and have been given years to pay what is owed. That's all I know.

by Deuce .

Sound familiar?...

Outspoken Teacher Disappears in China

It's maddening to even imagine living in these types of conditions.
.

by Suliso

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 2:34 am From what I've read she and the ex ran some tax avoidance scam, maybe involving what their legal residence was, got caught, and have been given years to pay what is owed. That's all I know.

Indeed, years ago she claimed to be living in Andorra while spending almost all of her time in Barcelona.

by ashkor87

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:11 pm Very interesting re Barty.

They all are interesting, actually. I suppose, by definition, 50% should be considered the benchmark for a too player...but certainly shoes they all beat each other all the time!

by JazzNU I think the most interesting thing in that WTA roundup vs. Top 10% stats is that Jankovic is still considered "Active"? Who knew!

by ti-amie A visual recap of tennis in 2021. It's a long thread of images by various photographers

It's threaded.

by ti-amie

(I think she's wearing a FFP3 mask. They're said to be better than the kN95's)

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote:

(I think she's wearing a FFP3 mask. They're said to be better than the kN95's)

Glad she is competing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by mmmm8

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:06 pm A visual recap of tennis in 2021. It's a long thread of images by various photographers

It's threaded.

Some of these photos are too good.

Christophe Archambault

Corrine Dubreuil

by ti-amie

by ti-amie January 2, 2022

The women’s circuit is ‘no longer the domain of Serena,’ claims Garbine Muguruza

Garbine Muguruza thinks the women’s circuit is more competitive than ever before and feels no one player will be able to dominate in the same way Serena Williams did.

Although the Spaniard has gained a reputation for being inconsistent, two-time Grand Slam champion Muguruza showed glimpses of what she is capable of last season.

She won the Dubai Tennis Championships, the Chicago Falls Tennis Classic and the prestigious season concluding WTA Finals.

As such, she finished the year ranked third in the WTA world rankings behind World number one Ashleigh Barty and World number two Aryna Sabalenka.

Over the past few years, the women’s tour has been tightly contested and extremely competitive, with each of this year’s four Grand Slams being won by a different player. This has happened every year since 2017, with no one player winning more than one Slam per year.

This season Naomi Osaka won the Australian Open, Barbora Krejcikova took the French Open, Ashleigh Barty claimed Wimbledon and Emma Raducanu shocked the world when she won the US Open as a qualifier at just 18 years old.

23-time Slam ace Serena Williams was ruled out of the second half of the season through injury. As a result, her best Slam performance this season saw her reach the semi-finals of the Australian Open. Moreover, Serena has not won a Major since 2017.

Muguruza told Spanish sports newspaper Mundo Deportivo that she thinks no one player will be able to dominate in the same way as Serena due to the tough competition on the WTA tour.

She said “it’s tough, there is a lot of competition, each tournament is a little bit that you never know who is going to win.

“If I am good with myself, I think I am a very difficult opponent to beat, but [even when I am] feeling good I have also lost because the others also play very well. There is more competition than ever.

“There is no longer the domain of Serena [Williams] or something like that, now it is like each tournament that plays the best that week is going to take it away,” Muguruza claimed.

“Because I also don’t see that anyone is regularly winning titles. Out of thirty tournaments this year, almost all of them are different champions.”

https://tennishead.net/womens-circuit-n ... x_dN9klXQU

by Deuce .

"I define success as me enjoying the sport, enjoying my time on the tennis court."
- Leylah

by Suliso According to tennis.com Carlos Alcaraz and Clara Tauson are the most likely teenagers to break through this season.

https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/mo ... on-atp-wta

by ponchi101 Hard to disagree, and not a farfetched prediction.
You called it too, right?

by Suliso

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:08 pm Hard to disagree, and not a farfetched prediction.
You called it too, right?

Yes, I would have gone with the same two. It's indeed a rather obvious choice if you are looking for teenagers which haven't truly broken through yet, but likely will. We could still be surprised, though. I bet no one picked Raducanu a year ago.

by ponchi101 Raducanu is the prototype of a concept that you and I agree on: The Black Swan. Just remember that she caused havoc in our SP from last year because everybody kept betting against her, and they all lost.
But "she" will not happen again. No way another player comes out from the qualies and wins a slam, in the spectacular fashion that she did. And also, that final was also a Black Swan. A totally statistical fluke, somewhere out there in the 5 sigma realm.

by Suliso I agree, but a lesser black swan could still happen. Say a Slam QF and few small titles out of the blue.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:09 pm Raducanu is the prototype of a concept that you and I agree on: The Black Swan. Just remember that she caused havoc in our SP from last year because everybody kept betting against her, and they all lost.
But "she" will not happen again. No way another player comes out from the qualies and wins a slam, in the spectacular fashion that she did. And also, that final was also a Black Swan. A totally statistical fluke, somewhere out there in the 5 sigma realm.

10 matches, 20-0 in sets. That probably won't happen again in our lifetime.

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 6:01 pm I agree, but a lesser black swan could still happen. Say a Slam QF and few small titles out of the blue.

Oh, sure. But remember, prior to Emma, the only Qualies-to-QF that I can remember was Mac's run to the QF's at Wimby 77, which rocket him to fame (and everybody said immediately that he was destined to win it one day, which of course came true).
And with today's parity, man, Qualies to Champ at ANY tournament looks difficult. I did say that she will win more slams (all teenage winners have won more than one) but if she never does, it is Black Swan all over, at 6 Sigma.

by Suliso Who do you think will be this year's newcomers of the year? Please pick someone with a career high ranking no higher than #80 and no ATP/WTA titles.

by ponchi101 On the ATP, the sole young kid out there that looks promising is Rune. He is below the 100 mark but, I just can't see anybody else. Cerundulo, maybe? If he has a good run on clay? (Juan Manuel).
On the WTA, Juvan? Just because she just took out Aryna, and she is young.

by Suliso Rune is a great pick, forgot about him momentarily. For women no obvious favorites. Just to throw up some names - Juvan, Rakhimova, Noskova, McNally, Kasintseva, Jacquemot...

by Deuce

Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:34 pm Rune is a great pick, forgot about him momentarily. For women no obvious favorites. Just to throw up some names - Juvan, Rakhimova, Noskova, McNally, Kasintseva, Jacquemot...

I see McNally as being destined to be a 'doubles specialist'. I've not seen anything from her in singles that got my attention.
I saw Jacquemot in Juniors. In a doubles match, she was vehemently accused of cheating. There was a big stink about it. I didn't see the incident which prompted the accusation - I was nearby and was drawn to the court by the loud commotion. I heard the accusation and Jacquemot's denial. Based on the character of the girl who made the accusation, whom I was rather familiar with, I don't think she would make a false accusation. As the situation played out, I believed the accuser more than I believed the accused. Jacquemot was rather arrogant in her denial. I kept my eye on her for the rest of the tournament, and found her to be overall more arrogant than the other kids at the tournament. So... talented, yes, but I'm not a fan of her demeanour.

by Suliso

Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:28 am
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:34 pm Rune is a great pick, forgot about him momentarily. For women no obvious favorites. Just to throw up some names - Juvan, Rakhimova, Noskova, McNally, Kasintseva, Jacquemot...
I see McNally as being destined to be a 'doubles specialist'. I've not seen anything from her in singles that got my attention.
I saw Jacquemot in Juniors. In a doubles match, she was vehemently accused of cheating. There was a big stink about it. I didn't see the incident which prompted the accusation - I was nearby and was drawn to the court by the loud commotion. I heard the accusation and Jacquemot's denial. Based on the character of the girl who made the accusation, whom I was rather familiar with, I don't think she would make a false accusation. As the situation played out, I believed the accuser more than I believed the accused. Jacquemot was rather arrogant in her denial. I kept my eye on her for the rest of the tournament, and found her to be overall more arrogant than the other kids at the tournament. So... talented, yes, but I'm not a fan of her demeanour.

You know juniors better than the rest of us. Who's your own pick (never mind the character) for a breakthrough year from outside the top 80?

by Deuce Firstly, I would not say that I know juniors better than the rest of you. I see a few junior tournaments live here and there, and some players catch my eye, and it's enjoyable to try to predict who among them will succeed at the pro level within the next 5 years or so.
But I don't see as much Junior tennis as I used to (mostly because of the pandemic), and I don't watch Junior tournaments on TV or streaming (mostly because I can't find any to watch). From time to time, I'll see a Junior who has gotten a WildCard into a significant home country tournament that's televised or streamed... but I certainly am not familiar with the majority of Juniors - or even of recent Juniors - at this point.

That said... Breakthrough year and up and coming young player are different things - or at least can be. I've thought for 2 years that Marie Bouzkova had what it takes to play her way into the top 30 or so. Thus far, I've been wrong, as she's currently just barely hanging on to the top 100. I'm still hoping that this year will be a 'breakthrough year' for her - she's obviously older and more experienced than she was 2 years ago... but, other than the potential I see in her, there have been no real signs that that will happen.

One young player that I am and will be keeping my eye on is Oceane Babel from France (Guadeloupe). She's about to turn 18 years old, and is currently ranked #854 (which really means nothing at this stage of her career). I've never seen her play live (or, if I did, I don't recall it)... but I've seen her play on TV a few times, and have seen a few YouTube things. She has a unique game - and that usually attracts my attention. If she has a good head on her shoulders, I wouldn't be surprised to see her entering the top 30 or so within 2 or 3 years.

I know this is slightly aside from the topic, but looking further down the future line, others that I see potential in - mostly because they're Canadian, so I get to see and follow them more - are Victoria Mboko (15 year old girl), and Jaden Weekes (17 year old boy). Lefty. Jaden has all of the elements necessary to be a pro - from his game to his comportment. I watched him win a tournament with an injury which prevented him from hitting his 2 handed topspin backhand... so he sliced a lot of backhands, but once in a while would pull the trigger on a one-handed topspin that looked very natural. The ability to do that, and the intelligence to figure out how to adjust his game and strategy throughout the tournament to compensate for not being able to hit the two-hander was impressive. Extremely and genuinely nice kid, siblings also play high level tennis, dad loves the game. Being coached by Marty Laurendeau (ex Canada Davis Cup Captain and Shapovalov coach). He could step into a pro locker room tomorrow and not be out of place (although he would, of course, initially feel shy and awkward, he would be accepted very quickly because he carries himself like a professional). I really hope he makes it.

Mboko I've never met - but from what I've seen of her, she impresses me more than the other female Juniors in Canada, although she's younger than most at her level of play. I'm looking forward to seeing her evolution.

On yet another tangent (if I may), I know you're high on Clara Tauson. Just want to let you know, if you're not aware, that she retired from her match today in Melbourne after losing the 1st set vs. Sasnovich. One of her thighs was taped - I'm assuming that was the reason for the retirement.
She and Leylah had a bit of a rivalry in Juniors. Hoping that happens at the pro level, too...

by Suliso Yes, I noticed about Clara being injured. Hopefully nothing too serious. She's a well known name among fans already, hopefully some bigger results come this year and at least a top 30 ranking.

Pandemic has messed up junior GS's making it more difficult to notice young promising players. Jimenez Kasintseva (only 16) is the one standing out a bit and has done well recently on lower pro circuit (up to #224 in live ranking and playing Vandeveghe tonight), but I haven't had a chance to actually see her play.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote:Yes, I noticed about Clara being injured. Hopefully nothing too serious. She's a well known name among fans already, hopefully some bigger results come this year and at least a top 30 ranking.

Pandemic has messed up junior GS's making it more difficult to notice young promising players. Jimenez Kasintseva (only 16) is the one standing out a bit and has done well recently on lower pro circuit (up to #224 in live ranking and playing Vandeveghe tonight), but I haven't had a chance to actually see her play.

The Fruhvirtova sisters, Linda and Brenda, are highly touted juniors.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ponchi101 Anybody willing to put any money down on Vittoria and Carola, the two girls in the Barilla video with Roger, playing from the rooftops? They are training at Rafa's academy, after all. Somebody must have seen something in them (other than the commercial potential).
(Half cockamamie question, I know).

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:21 pm Anybody willing to put any money down on Vittoria and Carola, the two girls in the Barilla video with Roger, playing from the rooftops? They are training at Rafa's academy, after all. Somebody must have seen something in them (other than the commercial potential).
(Half cockamamie question, I know).

At the very least, they'll go to college in the US on scholarships. I wonder if certain academies focus more on training for college vs going pro early.

by JazzNU

Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:31 pm Who do you think will be this year's newcomers of the year? Please pick someone with a career high ranking no higher than #80 and no ATP/WTA titles.

I think for the ATP I'll go with Sebastian Baez. Also keeping an eye on Ruusuvuori, though not sure what his career high ranking is, and Maxime Cressy.

For the WTA, I like Gasanova. Also keeping an eye on Gracheva, Harmony Tan and Qinwen Zheng. And I really like Linda Fruhvirtova, but fairly certain her age means she's on more restrictions with her schedule.

by ti-amie Qinwen Zheng caught my eye last year. She is tall, her footwork is exquisite, and she is poised and mature on court.

Baez finished the year with a flourish as they say. I'm anxious to see how he fares this year now that those ranked higher than him are aware of his abilities.

by ponchi101 Baez, yes. He played well at the Next Gen. I would say he can make some noise on clay, at least in smaller tournaments.

by Suliso Baez not bad, but I think Rune is a bigger talent. I do like the pick of Zheng, definitely a possibility.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie From article:

"He would not follow the same organisational arrangements as those who are vaccinated," Maracineanu told FranceInfo radio. "But he will nonetheless be able to compete [at Roland Garros] because the protocols, the health bubble, allows it."

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... s-minister

by ponchi101 In the same vein that in TAT1.0 we needed the I'M SHOCKED gif, here I find that I need the SLAP TO FACE gif more often than ever.

by Suliso So maybe the big battle between you know who for #21 will be in Paris. Would be fitting...

by the Moz If only Tennis Australia was as open and transparent as la FTT is being with respect to the entitlement bubble...

by ti-amie

I mean that kit is hideous but...

by ti-amie OMG

by Owendonovan He doesn't even get to confront his father in any way. Not sure how you get closure on something like this.

by Deuce That is tough.
It's odd and unexpected, too, because Juan has always seemed to be an honest, upstanding man of good values and principles. He plays fair and certainly seems like a legitimately nice guy. One wouldn't expect the father of an honest person to be so manipulative and dishonest. It's not like he was estranged from his father, obviously. So his father had a significant influence on Juan growing up. It's very interesting that they're so different.

That's a pretty sad situation, and I feel bad for him.
But it could have been worse, I suppose... if Juan hadn't been so often injured, his dad would have stolen even more from him!

by ponchi101 Only to add. The soy industry in Argentina has been hit very hard by the inefficiency of the Kirchner regimes. A very profitable part of their economy has been shuttered by politics, so it seems it was not only mismanagement and corruption from Delpo Sr, it was bad investing.
Dear L. American friends: if you earn in FOREIGN CURRENCY, KEEP IT IN FOREIGN CURRENCY.
I know.

by Suliso Why did it need to be invested in any risky way at all? Simple index fund abroad would have done the trick when starting from that much.

by ponchi101 Well, what the person that started the Tweet says. When you have a non-professional running your business, wrong decisions are taken. You know: "I have this great investment opportunity: AN ICE CREAM chain in Antarctica!
Why Antarctica?
There are none there!"
Next thing you know, you just blew a fortune away.

by JazzNU

by ti-amie This is why when athletes of any gender say they're burned out you can't just make a joke about it or push their feelings aside. I've been really harsh about her on court play and to hear her talk about her struggle means I have to take a step back.

Thanks for saying this Madison.

by ponchi101 But...
She seemed to me to always have been one of the players that was good at managing "being off" the tour. I remember her being at concerts, having a life outside of tennis. She always seemed very grounded, and very reasonable in her understanding.
It does surprise me a bit that she talks about being "caught up" with rankings and related issues. She seemed so far from that.

by ptmcmahon Just goes to show we never can really tell how anyone else is actually feeling. I always go back to Robin Williams as my best example … seemed always happy, always entertaining others … you just never know.

by Suliso

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:23 am Just goes to show we never can really tell how anyone else is actually feeling. I always go back to Robin Williams as my best example … seemed always happy, always entertaining others … you just never know.

Definitely albeit entertainers are often unhappy themselves. I think you're more likely to find happy people among accountants or engineers.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I like those. Simple but fun.

by ti-amie

by Deuce 'Tennis Connected' isn't very connected to reality.
Leylah and Emma aren't even 20 years old yet. To criticize them and compare what they've done in the past 4 months to what 'true greats' do over an entire career is simply asinine.

by ti-amie Oh you haven't met the Raducanu stans. The comparison here is pretty tame. Leylah Annie's fans are a bit more subdued and wouldn't agree with what this person is saying.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:04 pm I like those. Simple but fun.

Not crazy about them at all. I like them in Elina's TikTok so I thought I'd like them more, but have found them a touch awkward looking on court so far. That being said, I've found many times that it matters who has it on with these kits, so it could be that I haven't seen it on the right player to get me to like it just yet.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:00 am Oh you haven't met the Raducanu stans. The comparison here is pretty tame. Leylah Annie's fans are a bit more subdued and wouldn't agree with what this person is saying.

Disagree on Leylah's fans being subdued. Focus has been on Emma and not her since the USO, especially since her losses haven't been as frequent or as bad. But during the USO, her fans were relentless and not in a good way. It was a lot. Emma's fans were rather tepid during the USO by comparison, ramped up their fandom in the following weeks and months.

by Deuce Meet Maxime Cressy - the man who is bringing the Serve & Volley game back to tennis (and who just beat Isner in 5 sets)...

He was apparently a horse's ass while playing for UCLA, and even for much of his time on the Challenger tour - needlessly 'grunting' on every point - including on volley's - and several dozen in-your-face "Come On"s.
Since then, he's matured and is respectful on court and humble in victory. He just recently said that he is inspired by Nadal's attitude, after playing Rafa in a Final last week.

Unique Game and Relentless Determination...

Q & A With Maxime Cressy

.

by ti-amie

Tennis Twitter at it's finest (or worst)

by ponchi101 Sloane trying to be Kim? Uhm....

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:37 pm Tennis Twitter at it's finest (or worst)

It's worst. This is what feeds into the comfortability of sending Sloane, and other players, threats and insulting messages after every loss.

by Deuce

JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:37 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:37 pm Tennis Twitter at it's finest (or worst)
It's worst. This is what feeds into the comfortability of sending Sloane, and other players, threats and insulting messages after every loss.

Wow - that's quite a stretch.
I could not disagree more.
I guess no-one should make ANY negative comments about any player, then - no matter how tame.
To be safe, we should shut this and all other tennis discussion boards down.

The reality is that there's a lunatic fringe out there who make the vulgar comments and threats. Most of them are gamblers who, when the player they bet on loses, and they lose money, they write the vulgarisms and threats. The large majority of these people know virtually nothing about tennis.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:17 am 'Tennis Connected' isn't very connected to reality.
Leylah and Emma aren't even 20 years old yet. To criticize them and compare what they've done in the past 4 months to what 'true greats' do over an entire career is simply asinine.

Yeah, Tennis Connected's post about Emma and Leylah Annie is silly and naive. They aren't greats yet. They both had a great result and have potential to have accomplished careers. That's all we know so far.

And yes, a great player can lose R1 to a 130-ranked player after winning a Slam. It's an upset, but everyone has bad days and upsets.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

At least one response was "get a room".

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:17 am

At least one response was "get a room".

Can't wait to see if she keeps this same energy when she plays Anisimova in the future if Darren's still in Amanda's coaching box.

by ti-amie

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:31 am

^ That's a very impressive percentage.
With a better racquet, he'd be at 98%

.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez Sue for what? An honorary share of the 2022 title? He could make a case for damages, but how petty would that be. I guess it would be about pride and some retribution. If it happened.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:44 am

by Fastbackss As bogus as it would be, I think he would have a reasonable case. He followed their direction, to a tee. It "wasn't his fault" that TA made their rules in contradiction to countrywide regulations

by MJ2004 They could be paying him to avoid a lawsuit. Would they even need to disclose it if they did?

by Deuce

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:16 am As bogus as it would be, I think he would have a reasonable case. He followed their direction, to a tee. It "wasn't his fault" that TA made their rules in contradiction to countrywide regulations

I don't think so. He's not a child who is completely dependent on following others - he's an adult who is capable of making his own decisions. He can't claim complete ignorance. He had every opportunity to find out for himself what the criteria for entry to Australia is - and that is his responsibility, as it is for every traveler to a country. So I'm quite sure that he knew.
Both he and Tennis Australia knew that he wouldn't be getting into the country in a straightforward manner.
It looks to me like he and Tennis Australia were in discussion together with the goal of trying to figure out how to get him in through a loophole, or through deceit or manipulation or by using some other type of questionable means. They were in this together.

by meganfernandez

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:16 am As bogus as it would be, I think he would have a reasonable case. He followed their direction, to a tee. It "wasn't his fault" that TA made their rules in contradiction to countrywide regulations

He could make a case and good lawyers might win it. But he also knows that TA isn't the border authority. He should have checked their info on his own. He trusted them and that's on him, no matter how reasonable it was. Now, maybe there's some law I don't know about that would make TA culpable for something. Very possible. It also wouldn't help Djokovic's case that he could have just gotten vaccinated and avoided the whole thing.

He would sue in Australian court, right?

by meganfernandez

MJ2004 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:21 am They could be paying him to avoid a lawsuit. Would they even need to disclose it if they did?

That's true... I doubt they would have to disclose it.

by JazzNU

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:16 am As bogus as it would be, I think he would have a reasonable case. He followed their direction, to a tee. It "wasn't his fault" that TA made their rules in contradiction to countrywide regulations

He was lobbying TA and Craig for awhile ahead of the tournament, it wasn't even a secret. Thinking it's a lot to assume he was just following "their" directions and him and his team weren't part of the plan.

But in general, there's no way he's suing anyone. He does not want his positive test and convenient timing and lack of an alternative plan re-evaluated. At all.

by ponchi101 Sue them for what?
Deporting him? No, that was the Australian government.
Rough treatment? No, Australian government again.
Lost revenue? Who said he was going to win this 100%. Iffy, I believe.
Misinformation about his visa? Nope, Aussie gov again. He should have read the requirements better.

I guess he has to take his ball and go home. How on earth does this help his public image right now?

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 A considerable achievement. I wonder how many players have done that, in history. I would bet less than 50.

by ponchi101 The US commentators are talking about how players are "putting more shape on the ball".
What does that mean?

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:28 am The US commentators are talking about how players are "putting more shape on the ball".
What does that mean?

THANK YOU for asking that question. They're the only ones doing that too. I noticed it during one of Keys matches and they never said what they meant.

by dave g

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:28 am The US commentators are talking about how players are "putting more shape on the ball".
What does that mean?

That means that they are hitting the ball a little higher over the net and usually a little more topspin, instead of just hard and flat.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:28 am The US commentators are talking about how players are "putting more shape on the ball".
What does that mean?

"Shape on the ball" was the "easy power" of 2021, maybe a little earlier. Very fashionable phrase. Along with "so-and-so is asking questions" meaning posing challenges, which I can't stand.

by ponchi101 Well, what I say. They have to sound "profound". "Knowledgeable".
I gather "hitting with more arc" is a bit too 90's for them.
Yes, I think the asking questions is also pretty dumb.

by Deuce Speaking of commentating...
Here in Canada, we're getting what I believe to be the 'home' Australian broadcast of many of the matches - John Fitzgerald, Wally Masur, Brad Stine...
Brad Stine is very difficult for me to tolerate. Firstly, he never shuts up. He is the complete contrast to the old BBC broadcasts with John Barrett, who spoke only a few words, and only when necessary. Stine can't stop talking, throwing out one currently popular cliché after another, seemingly desperate to show everyone how much he 'knows'. It's ostentatious overanalytical overkill.
And his voice is extremely irritating - it's the typical Californian know-it-all voice. It sticks out like a sore thumb among the other Australian (and British, I believe) accents on the broadcasts.

I'm not a fan of Robbie Koenig, either - even though he gave me a ball (unsolicited) at a tournament several years ago when he was playing. I usually love the South African accent - but Robbie is another who has never been taught that silence is golden.
Stine is worse than Koenig, though.

by MJ2004

by dmforever

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:43 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:28 am The US commentators are talking about how players are "putting more shape on the ball".
What does that mean?
"Shape on the ball" was the "easy power" of 2021, maybe a little earlier. Very fashionable phrase. Along with "so-and-so is asking questions" meaning posing challenges, which I can't stand.

Every job has its buzzwords. In the same way that "shape on the ball" makes y'all crazy, "cohort" makes me nuts. Can we not say "with topspin" and "students"?

Kevin

by mmmm8 If you are sitting around thinking, "I finally kind of understand NFTs and like tennis, how should I waste my millions?..." Stan Wawrinka has a proposition for you:

https://ballmanproject.io/

by ponchi101 How long before somebody coins "Scam Wawrinka"?
(Like two seconds ago, I just did).

by Owendonovan

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:03 pm If you are sitting around thinking, "I finally kind of understand NFTs and like tennis, how should I waste my millions?..." Stan Wawrinka has a proposition for you:

https://ballmanproject.io/

Stan wants to be called "Ballman" now? Sounds like a ball chaser.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU Still catching up with who switched sponsors and who has gotten dropped. Not that it's all that surprising, but just now noticing that Danielle Collins was dropped by New Balance. It'll be interesting to see if she gets another clothing sponsor quickly after this run or if they'll need to see some changes before they make a commitment. If she wins, I'm sure it'll be a done deal, but if not, it could be interesting.

by Suliso Iga Swiatek has reached the 4th round or better in five straight Slams. I think that counts as consistency in todays WTA.

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:59 am Iga Swiatek has reached the 4th round or better in five straight Slams. I think that counts as consistency in todays WTA.

Very much. And I think she is making a very strong case that she will be a multi-slam winner. She is, at a minimum, getting better in all surfaces. I say three slams by the end of the career is not unthinkable.

by Suliso Why only three? Could easily be 8 or 10 too.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:26 pm Why only three? Could easily be 8 or 10 too.

I think Swiatek be in the position to win more Slams, barring major injury or life disruption. But it's so hard to win Slams.... I think it's underestimated a lot. I could see three or four. More wouldn't surprise me, but 3 or 4 is a solid career. Even Halep only has 2, and she has spent more weeks in the Top 10 of any player since Sanchez Viccario or Steffi, whoever was the last in the top 10 - a shocking stat to me.

by Suliso Halep had Serena around. Iga probably won't have anyone like that.

Not saying that she'll win that many, but would it shock me? Not at all... We're way too conservative here with this. 5-10 Slam winners are not that incredibly rare, every generation has 1-2.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:40 pm Halep had Serena around. Iga probably won't have anyone like that.

Not saying that she'll win that many, but would it shock me? Not at all... We're way too conservative here with this. 5-10 Slam winners are not that incredibly rare, every generation has 1-2.

Off the top of my head, the only people with 5 or more Slams in the last couple generations:
Serena
Venus
Henin
Sharapova

Halep only played Serena in 4 Slams since she became a top player (2013). One of those, she won. (My god, that match... maybe Halep's best ever.) I still say it's just really hard to win Slams! Partly because of life and injuries. It's become a less-meaningful stat to me than consistency in the Top 10. Of course, Slams are the coin of the realm and the ultimate goal, but getting to the latter rounds consistently (reflected in ranking) is just as meaningful to me now. and yeah, I think Swiatek will be a consistent week 2 player, a lot of quarters and better.

Not trying to argue with you. I just love this topic. We tend to reduce careers to Slam counts, and there's so much more to it. Heck, to me 2 Slams is a fantastic achievement now.

I think Barty can get 5-8, maybe more if she stays interested/motivated. I could see her interest waning if she wants to stay home a lot, maybe start a family. Osaka could, of course. Probably will get 5-8.

I think it takes a very special player to get more than a few Slams, to have that dedication/ motivation/hunger over a long time, getting lucky with injuries, managing all the intangibles like coaching situations, recovery periods, opportunities that arise when you become successful, and life interruptions... It's less about the tennis. I think many people have the tennis to win 5 Slams. But not everything else. Maybe Swiatek is one of those players. She's got the fight/grit, which I think is really important. Serena, Sharapova, Henin - fighters, all of them.

by ponchi101 I say three because I say we are entering a long era of incredible parity. Iga is just one of, I would say, 10 players with slams in their future (for Iga, more slams). So I am only going for 3 to be on the safe side.
Her best surface is clay, but that is also a lot of other players' best surface. And none of them will have to deal with a Steffi or a Serena, but they will have to handle 5 rounds of really tough opponents. Look at Cornet at this Aussie; she took out Mugu and Halep. And then goes down to Collins. I know we agree that they are all very even.

by Suliso Can we say that we're firmly in Barty era if she wins her 3rd on Saturday?

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:57 pm Can we say that we're firmly in Barty era if she wins her 3rd on Saturday?

Yes. I'd say so even if she loses tonight. She has separated herself from the pack by winning often and easily.

by ponchi101 I would not. For me, an ERA is when a player is winning 2-3 slams a year, continuously. Roger from 2004 through 2008. Steffi and Serena during their peaks, Borg 78-80. I say Barty is the best player right now, but if Keys beats her tonight, I will not be surprised at all. It will not be Vinci beating Serena at the USO.

by Suliso I'm somewhere in the middle. For someone to be really on the top there are two requirements - #1 rankings and either holding two Slams the last year or three over the last two years. Barty is approaching that territory, but only if she wins.

by Suliso Actually era maybe is indeed saying too much (really more like ponchi defines). Maybe more proper would be to say that if Barty takes the title WTA is not at full parity anymore. There is a clear top dog everyone should be aiming to dethrone.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:33 pm Actually era maybe is indeed saying too much (really more like ponchi defines). Maybe more proper would be to say that if Barty takes the title WTA is not at full parity anymore. There is a clear top dog everyone should be aiming to dethrone.

Definitely. But I'd even give that to her right now, personally. Maybe Era is too much, but she is the clear top dog, as you say, and has separated herself from everyone else. Really wish she and Osaka would have played this tournament. I think Osaka can challenge her this year for the mantel. Difference is Barty is more consistent week in and week out and more committed to the tour events, I think.

by JazzNU

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:59 am Iga Swiatek has reached the 4th round or better in five straight Slams. I think that counts as consistency in todays WTA.

Not for me. I've watched a good deal of her matches at those slams and she seems to play a combo of cupcake draws in early rounds and very good players that let her off the hook far too often. Luck has definitely been on her side, whereas many higher seeds have come upon quite a few dangerous unseeded players as an early test, she's largely been able to avoid that fate.

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:27 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:59 am Iga Swiatek has reached the 4th round or better in five straight Slams. I think that counts as consistency in todays WTA.
Not for me. I've watched a good deal of her matches at those slams and she seems to play a combo of cupcake draws in early rounds and very good players that let her off the hook far too often. Luck has definitely been on her side, whereas many higher seeds have come upon quite a few dangerous unseeded players as an early test, she's largely been able to avoid that fate.

You can say the same thing about Barty.

I watched Iga's match last night and it was clearly only a matter of time until Kanepi ran out of gas and possibly lose. The ESPN crew kept asking why she had no wristbands on such a hot day. One hand was bleeding from a blister that had come open. And she still came close to upsetting Swiatek.

I have nothing against Barty but she needs the right draw to get into the late stages of a Slam. Swiatek is the same.

by ponchi101

JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:27 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:59 am Iga Swiatek has reached the 4th round or better in five straight Slams. I think that counts as consistency in todays WTA.
Not for me. I've watched a good deal of her matches at those slams and she seems to play a combo of cupcake draws in early rounds and very good players that let her off the hook far too often. Luck has definitely been on her side, whereas many higher seeds have come upon quite a few dangerous unseeded players as an early test, she's largely been able to avoid that fate.

But it is a comparative statement. If you call that consistency, but bring Evert as the measuring rod, it is a very loose statement. But compared to the rest of the top ten, her run certainly stands out AT THE MOMENT. All the other top ten are like "2 semis, 1 QF, 2 second rounders". Barty is, excluding this Aussie: R32, W, R64, QF, SF. Not shabby but a bit more fluctuation.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:52 am
But it is a comparative statement. If you call that consistency, but bring Evert as the measuring rod, it is a very loose statement. But compared to the rest of the top ten, her run certainly stands out AT THE MOMENT. All the other top ten are like "2 semis, 1 QF, 2 second rounders". Barty is, excluding this Aussie: R32, W, R64, QF, SF. Not shabby but a bit more fluctuation.

I don't understand the Evert comment.

If you want to call what Swiatek has done consistent, that's fine. I'm just not there with her yet. I was surprised that she qualified for the WTA Finals last season because, having watched a good deal of her matches this season, not just at the grand slams, I just didn't think she was there. I was not at all surprised that her form did not match that of her competitors that tournament. I think she'll get there, mind you, I just don't think her game (and her game plan) is there right now. And this is all off clay. I'm probably one of the few who watched every single match she played during her French Open title run, and after watching her first match where she made previous year's finalist Vondrousova look like some amateur she was swatting out of her way, I knew she could win the whole thing and posted as much. I'm still as impressed as heck of her on that surface, but she's been pretty inconsistent on the other surfaces, sometimes looking amazing, other times much less than that, and it can even happen within the same match.

I could say more, but I'll leave it here. Consistent is just not a word I can use to describe Swiatek right now.

by ponchi101 Evert made 52 semifinals of the 56 grand slams she entered, which is the highest percentage of any player all time. So, I used it as the ultimate example of consistency.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:40 am Evert made 52 semifinals of the 56 grand slams she entered, which is the highest percentage of any player all time. So, I used it as the ultimate example of consistency.

Okay gotcha, that level of specificity is not something I would know. I know she's a great champion, know she was at the top for a very long time, but the majority of her dominance was before I was born and then obviously I was very young for the rest of her career. It would have to be something referenced regularly for me to know it, which it isn't. Which is a bit odd actually, why use Federer as an example when that's her record?

by ponchi101 Because her record is 52/56 in semis, but Roger has the record for most consecutive finals. I was mixing data, indeed. Remember, Suliso was only saying that, in this day and age, Swiatek's streak is quite better than most of her contemporaries. For example, she is far more regular than Mugu, who can win the tournament and then lose in the first round the next.
It was only comparative. If the new crop if compared to the elders (Chrissie, Martina, Steffi, Serena), they are nowhere near that level of consistency.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:49 pm Because her record is 52/56 in semis, but Roger has the record for most consecutive finals. I was mixing data, indeed. Remember, Suliso was only saying that, in this day and age, Swiatek's streak is quite better than most of her contemporaries. For example, she is far more regular than Mugu, who can win the tournament and then lose in the first round the next.
It was only comparative. If the new crop if compared to the elders (Chrissie, Martina, Steffi, Serena), they are nowhere near that level of consistency.

Here at least, TV commentators mention Federer's semifinals streak much more often than his finals streak. So, so many times.

I'm not changing my mind on Swiatek, consistent is just not a word I'm willing to use to describe her in any way right now, and this morning's match obviously didn't help. No, she doesn't tend to lose in the first round, but like I said, cupcake draw in early rounds regularly at slams. She's been very lucky on that front so far.

And I'm just guessing that those that are willing to call her consistent, haven't watched her as often as I have. I have a really hard time believing you all wouldn't be where I am, unimpressed with getting to the 4th round of Wimbledon with a cupcake draw after struggling mightily to get by Heather Watson the week before and then falling like 2-6 0-6 in the final 2 sets of a 3 set match to Kasatakina in the following round.

And not for nothing, I don't recall almost anyone using the word consistent to describe Sloane Stephens at any point during her career, and she had a better run than this at making the 4th round at slams back to back to back. The talk about her on here was about her inconsistency outside of the Slams.

by Suliso I think we're making maybe too big a deal of my initial statement.

It's a low level consistency obviously and should not be in the same sentence as multi Slam winners past or present, but still better than a fair few fellow top 10 players. She indeed still has a lot of development to do to seriously challenge for GS titles off clay. I also predicted that she would lose to Collins.

by Liamvalid

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:40 am Evert made 52 semifinals of the 56 grand slams she entered, which is the highest percentage of any player all time. So, I used it as the ultimate example of consistency.

That’s absolutely bonkers! I never knew that about her. Looks like I need to get on Google as she is clearly much greater than I ever give her credit for

by dmforever

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:45 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:40 am Evert made 52 semifinals of the 56 grand slams she entered, which is the highest percentage of any player all time. So, I used it as the ultimate example of consistency.
That’s absolutely bonkers! I never knew that about her. Looks like I need to get on Google as she is clearly much greater than I ever give her credit for

I'm trying to remember the non-semi losses without looking them up.
1. 3rd round to Kathy Jordan at W ?
2. Quarters against Zina Garrison at her last Slam, the USO
3. I think her loss to Arantxa at the FO was in the quarters, but I may be wrong.

I'm going to have to think about the last one. Yes, I was kind of a fan.

Kevin

by meganfernandez

dmforever wrote:
Liamvalid wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:45 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:40 am Evert made 52 semifinals of the 56 grand slams she entered, which is the highest percentage of any player all time. So, I used it as the ultimate example of consistency.
That’s absolutely bonkers! I never knew that about her. Looks like I need to get on Google as she is clearly much greater than I ever give her credit for
I'm trying to remember the non-semi losses without looking them up.
1. 3rd round to Kathy Jordan at W ?
2. Quarters against Zina Garrison at her last Slam, the USO
3. I think her loss to Arantxa at the FO was in the quarters, but I may be wrong.

I'm going to have to think about the last one. Yes, I was kind of a fan.

Kevin

Impressed!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by dmforever

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:02 am
dmforever wrote:
Liamvalid wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:45 pm

That’s absolutely bonkers! I never knew that about her. Looks like I need to get on Google as she is clearly much greater than I ever give her credit for
I'm trying to remember the non-semi losses without looking them up.
1. 3rd round to Kathy Jordan at W ?
2. Quarters against Zina Garrison at her last Slam, the USO
3. I think her loss to Arantxa at the FO was in the quarters, but I may be wrong.

I'm going to have to think about the last one. Yes, I was kind of a fan.

Kevin
Impressed!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, but ask me what I had for breakfast and I'll be scratching my head for an hour.

I have zero idea why I remember that stuff other than I was really into her career and Borg's, and she lasted longer.

Kevin

by ponchi101

dmforever wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:14 am ...

Yeah, but ask me what I had for breakfast and I'll be scratching my head for an hour. I have zero idea why I remember that stuff other than I was really into her career and Borg's, and she lasted longer.

Kevin

Welcome to the club! I can name every GS winner, male or female, from 1974 on, but then I can't find my glasses... idly sitting on top of my head.

by dmforever And now that I think about it, I don't think the FO Arantxa match was the quarters. I think it was earlier than that. I'd say 3rd round as a first guess, 4th round as a second guess.

Kevin

by JazzNU

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:37 am

Well at least the glass is half full...

by Suliso Barty has separated herself from the competition somewhat. Joins Osaka as the only other active player with more than two Slam titles (I choose not to count Serena and Venys anymore).

Also currently 8th longest time at #1 (covid frozen rankings excluded) and will be 7th in a few weeks.

by skatingfan

Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:48 pm Barty has separated herself from the competition somewhat. Joins Osaka as the only other active player with more than two Slam titles (I choose not to count Serena and Venys anymore).

Also currently 8th longest time at #1 (covid frozen rankings excluded) and will be 7th in a few weeks.

Angelique Kerber would like a word.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie The shirt he's wearing sold out in less than an hour. I got the La Decima one but now I hope Nike will make another realease.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:53 pm The shirt he's wearing sold out in less than an hour. I got the La Decima one but now I hope Nike will make another realease.

That would be nice. I'm not holding out much hope right now. I went to the site, thought maybe they'd have the option to get a notification when it's available again and there's no photo or anything, just a product no longer available thing.

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:25 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:53 pm The shirt he's wearing sold out in less than an hour. I got the La Decima one but now I hope Nike will make another realease.

That would be nice. I'm not holding out much hope right now. I went to the site, thought maybe they'd have the option to get a notification when it's available again and there's no photo or anything, just a product no longer available thing.

Sigh

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote:
JazzNU wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:25 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:53 pm The shirt he's wearing sold out in less than an hour. I got the La Decima one but now I hope Nike will make another realease.

That would be nice. I'm not holding out much hope right now. I went to the site, thought maybe they'd have the option to get a notification when it's available again and there's no photo or anything, just a product no longer available thing.
Sigh

You could probably get a Novak 21 shirt on the cheap somewhere.

you know those were printed 6 months ago

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ponchi101

by MJ2004 My husband put himself on the Nike alert list for the t-shirt that featured a koala holding a tennis racquet - Rafa and his team were wearing it this week. He was able to buy one, but it also sold out shortly afterwards.

I'm not sure the #21 t-shirt was even on sale online, or if so, barely - the picture was up for a short time showing as sold out, but they may all just have been sold at the AO - I saw someone in the stands wearing one, so they were somehow available for purchase there.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:24 pm

I told y'all about that Adidas collection. Suspect. It feels like there's been a bad Melbourne Collection from either Nike or Adidas almost every year recently at the Aussie Open.

This is the description from Adidas' site -

MELBOURNE TENNIS ERGO PRINTED 7-INCH SHORTS
EYE-CATCHING TENNIS SHORTS MADE IN PART WITH PARLEY OCEAN PLASTIC.
Show your colors as you play for the oceans. These tennis shorts are part of a vibrant collection highlighting the consequences of climate change.

by dmforever How anyone could look at that and not think really unfortunate accident is beyond me. Truly insane that it got by so many people. Dare I say that it gives a whole new meaning to a crappy design?

Kevin

by ponchi101

JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:06 pm ...Show your colors as you play for the oceans...

The oceans that are... right at the discharge of a sewage plant that is not working properly?

by meganfernandez

dmforever wrote:How anyone could look at that and not think really unfortunate accident is beyond me. Truly insane that it got by so many people. Dare I say that it gives a whole new meaning to a crappy design?

Kevin

I saw this before the AO - I thought it was going to be Tsitsipas’s kit - and thought the same thing. How could they put that on - especially - a guy known for bathroom breaks? “If you don’t give me enough time, this is what happens!”

Atrocious.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:28 am
dmforever wrote:How anyone could look at that and not think really unfortunate accident is beyond me. Truly insane that it got by so many people. Dare I say that it gives a whole new meaning to a crappy design?

Kevin
I saw this before the AO - I thought it was going to be Tsitsipas’s kit - and thought the same thing. How could they put that on - especially - a guy known for bathroom breaks? “If you don’t give me enough time, this is what happens!”

Atrocious.

by meganfernandez I take clinics at a university tennis center, and they had a hard time getting new balls. The asst coach, who runs the clinics, was disgusted at the balls we had to use. (They were fine for me.)

I want to know if tennis balls can be recycled into news ones. And if so, why don't the manufacturers facilitate this? Seems like a good time to start. I often think about the abundance of old tennis balls - the amount in my car trunk and garage is astounding on its own. They have some limited uses, like for dog toys and on chair legs and walkers, but that just scratches the surface of the amount available. I've always thought something more creative should be done with them. Good project for architecture students.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:46 am

by ponchi101 I never thought about that. You are right. The rubber would be homogenous and uniform and I gather that "peeling" of the remaining felt should not be that hard. Also, setting up a recycle bin would be easy as you simply have to set them up at tennis facilities. It is not as tennis balls are used in many different places.
Plus, imagine the marketing benefits: "Balls made with recycled tennis balls". I would even wonder if you would even NEED to recycle the rubber ball; just reinflate to the proper pressure, seal it (nothing extraordinary with new technology) and slap a new felt on top of it.
You might be up to something.

by meganfernandez Right, I'm thinking reinflating the rubber and refurbishing the felt. Maybe some felt would have to be replaced, but maybe many balls could just could be fluffed up and cleaned. This is for amateur use, not pro, so they don't have to be perfect. Balls go flat in the cold, though. I wonder if that's a permanent, compositional change to the rubber or just regular deflation.

Yes on the marketing! Going even further, they could label balls as recycled from the US Open 2021, Wimbledon 2022... they become collector's. Could be stamped on the ball, too. "What balls is your court using?" "Wimbledon 22s."

Agree that collecting would be easy. Bins at clubs and maybe some public courts.

And eventually, a machine to do all this at clubs and at home.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:50 pm I never thought about that. You are right. The rubber would be homogenous and uniform and I gather that "peeling" of the remaining felt should not be that hard. Also, setting up a recycle bin would be easy as you simply have to set them up at tennis facilities. It is not as tennis balls are used in many different places.
Plus, imagine the marketing benefits: "Balls made with recycled tennis balls". I would even wonder if you would even NEED to recycle the rubber ball; just reinflate to the proper pressure, seal it (nothing extraordinary with new technology) and slap a new felt on top of it.
You might be up to something.

by mmmm8 There are non-profits that do this (at least in the US?). I don't think they refurbish, though.

https://www.recycleballs.org/

by ponchi101 And... it takes another one of our TAT'ers to let us know that this is already done!

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:47 pm There are non-profits that do this (at least in the US?). I don't think they refurbish, though.

https://www.recycleballs.org/

Thanks! I posted this on Twitter, and someone* mentioned a defunct company called Rebounces. Also, someone said that the aTP tournament in Rotterdam collects balls to recycle. I wonder how.

*someone was Marshall Jon Fisher, who wrote A Terrible Splendor. Made my day!

by JazzNU Yes, I was going to mention that there are places that recycle them.

For personal use, if you can thoroughly clean the tennis balls (I would recommend way more than just water and multiple cleanings) after you no longer want to play with them, a good re-use of them is in your dryer. Cuts down the drying time, and even better, the best use imo is with pillows and comforters, using them in the dryer helps with fluffing them back up to almost their original state.

by meganfernandez

JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:33 pm Yes, I was going to mention that there are places that recycle them.

For personal use, if you can thoroughly clean the tennis balls (I would recommend way more than just water and multiple cleanings) after you no longer want to play with them, a good re-use of them is in your dryer. Cuts down the drying time, and even better, the best use imo is with pillows and comforters, using them in the dryer helps with fluffing them back up to almost their original state.

Thanks! good idea. The cleaning directions on my puffer coat say to dry with a clean tennis ball. Didn't know you play! Do you play USTA?

by JazzNU

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:17 pm
Thanks! good idea. The cleaning directions on my puffer coat say to dry with a clean tennis ball. Didn't know you play! Do you play USTA?

I haven't played in a long time. But once upon a time it was one of the sports I was serious about.

Tennis balls would be excellent for a puffer coat, excellent. For a used tennis ball, just make sure you've cleaned it thoroughly, like with warm water and vinegar and then maybe a second time with a little detergent and water. But yeah, great for a coat, could absolutely keep it looking good for a long time. I just used some on pillows this weekend, night and day difference in results with and without them.

by Deuce I've often thought of the many discarded tennis balls going into landfills, as well...

Used tennis balls are collected here - to use on the 'feet' of chairs and desks in schools, etc. I would think this kind of collection is available in most communities.
That said, I don't really consider this to be 'recycling'. It's more like 'finding a use for old balls'.

Back in the '80s, I remember a device being sold which claimed to re-pressurize tennis balls. It was a cylindrical manual vacuum pump sort of thing, and was aimed at the recreational player.

'ReBounces' is not defunct or dead - they seem to be very much alive, and are doing interesting things with tennis balls. Their main purpose seems to be to re-pressurize balls via a device somewhat similar to the one I mentioned...

https://rebounces.com

As well, they partner with another company to chop up old tennis balls, and then use them to build... tennis courts!
Quite creative... This, to me, is TRUE recycling...

https://www.tennisballrecycling.com

.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:53 pm The shirt he's wearing sold out in less than an hour. I got the La Decima one but now I hope Nike will make another realease.

I haven't tried buying this way, but it is available now if willing to order from something other than the US Nike site.

The Nike site is likely to autocorrect to the US if your browser allows it to recognize the location. Have to look in Incognito and when asked, say it's in GB and shows as being in stock. Nowhere to be found if you look on the regular US site, will get a product no longer available sign still if you go to the site.

https://www.nike.com/gb/t/rafa-winner-t ... DQ9153-010

Also available thru his academy's store, the easiest way it would seem to me to order, doesn't require jumping thru hoops. Only $2 more expensive and if you order 2 (or get something else and checkout with over 50 Euros), shipping is free to the US.

https://shop.rafanadalacademy.com/en/me ... rand-slams

by skatingfan

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:27 pm I've often thought of the many discarded tennis balls going into landfills, as well...

Used tennis balls are collected here - to use on the 'feet' of chairs and desks in schools, etc. I would think this kind of collection is available in most communities.
That said, I don't really consider this to be 'recycling'. It's more like 'finding a use for old balls'.

Back in the '80s, I remember a device being sold which claimed to re-pressurize tennis balls. It was a cylindrical manual vacuum pump sort of thing, and was aimed at the recreational player.

'ReBounces' is not defunct or dead - they seem to be very much alive, and are doing interesting things with tennis balls. Their main purpose seems to be to re-pressurize balls via a device somewhat similar to the one I mentioned...

https://rebounces.com

As well, they partner with another company to chop up old tennis balls, and then use them to build... tennis courts!
Quite creative... This, to me, is TRUE recycling...

https://www.tennisballrecycling.com

.

Sort of seems like there could be several potential solutions to this issue. Finding a use for the old tennis balls outside of tennis is good - reuse comes before recycle - but it would be great long term if the balls could be refurbished, and reused in tennis because of the quantity of balls that are used in every tournament, not to mention the packaging. If tennis balls could be developed that lasted longer, but still maintained their playability, and durability so as to not affect the quality of play that would also be good. It doesn't seem sustainable to continue to use, and discard so many tennis balls for every tour event, not to mention challengers, futures, juniors, etc. being played every week.

by Deuce Putting old tennis balls on the feet of chairs and desks does nothing to solve the problem - the balls still end up in landfills. All it does is delay the process by a couple of years.

One could argue that it prevents the manufacture of more of those felt things made for chair/desk feet... but a lot of the chairs and desks that the balls end up on would simply not have had anything put on their feet if not for the balls.

I like the idea of chopping up the old balls to use in the creation of tennis courts - as long as the chopping process can be done without harming the environment.

by meganfernandez

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:05 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:53 pm The shirt he's wearing sold out in less than an hour. I got the La Decima one but now I hope Nike will make another realease.

I haven't tried buying this way, but it is available now if willing to order from something other than the US Nike site.

The Nike site is likely to autocorrect to the US if your browser allows it to recognize the location. Have to look in Incognito and when asked, say it's in GB and shows as being in stock. Nowhere to be found if you look on the regular US site, will get a product no longer available sign still if you go to the site.

https://www.nike.com/gb/t/rafa-winner-t ... DQ9153-010

Also available thru his academy's store, the easiest way it would seem to me to order, doesn't require jumping thru hoops. Only $2 more expensive and if you order 2 (or get something else and checkout with over 50 Euros), shipping is free to the US.

https://shop.rafanadalacademy.com/en/me ... rand-slams

I'm going to Spain next week. I'll keep an eye out for some - or something similar - and bring back a few to share if I can. I don't think anyone on this board lives in Spain, right?

by dave g I'm surprised that this has not yet appeared on this site. https://currently.att.yahoo.com/sports/ ... 24220.html

The highest ranking umpire got suspended to 12 moths. The article isn't very specific about the actual cause, but there seems to be some room to read between the lines.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:47 pm ...

I'm going to Spain next week. I'll keep an eye out for some - or something similar - and bring back a few to share if I can. I don't think anyone on this board lives in Spain, right?

I think Drop shot moved to Barcelona, but he has very much been absent from the board.

by ponchi101

dave g wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:27 pm I'm surprised that this has not yet appeared on this site. https://currently.att.yahoo.com/sports/ ... 24220.html

The highest ranking umpire got suspended to 12 moths. The article isn't very specific about the actual cause, but there seems to be some room to read between the lines.

It had not appeared in this site because the news came out this morning

Interesting read, but seems kind of obscure. I read it and it is not clear what the offenses were.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:39 pm
dave g wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:27 pm I'm surprised that this has not yet appeared on this site. https://currently.att.yahoo.com/sports/ ... 24220.html

The highest ranking umpire got suspended to 12 moths. The article isn't very specific about the actual cause, but there seems to be some room to read between the lines.
It had not appeared in this site because the news came out this morning
Interesting read, but seems kind of obscure. I read it and it is not clear what the offenses were.

I just skimmed and it sounded like sexual harassment/inappropriate behavior. I expected to recognize the umpire's name. Not at all...

by dmforever “The complaint was that Soeren made inappropriate comments and invitations to an individual,”
It seems like sexual harassment to me.

Kevin

Recognize.jpeg

by dmforever I got 14, but I'm a lot older than you.

I should have gotten more.

Kevin

by Liamvalid I only recognise 9, and of those 9 I only remember 7 names

by dmforever

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:33 pm I only recognise 9, and of those 9 I only remember 7 names

Do you want some hints?

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:05 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:53 pm The shirt he's wearing sold out in less than an hour. I got the La Decima one but now I hope Nike will make another realease.

I haven't tried buying this way, but it is available now if willing to order from something other than the US Nike site.

The Nike site is likely to autocorrect to the US if your browser allows it to recognize the location. Have to look in Incognito and when asked, say it's in GB and shows as being in stock. Nowhere to be found if you look on the regular US site, will get a product no longer available sign still if you go to the site.

https://www.nike.com/gb/t/rafa-winner-t ... DQ9153-010

Also available thru his academy's store, the easiest way it would seem to me to order, doesn't require jumping thru hoops. Only $2 more expensive and if you order 2 (or get something else and checkout with over 50 Euros), shipping is free to the US.

https://shop.rafanadalacademy.com/en/me ... rand-slams

I ordered from his academy site and got one for my daughter as well.

by meganfernandez

dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:39 pm
Liamvalid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:33 pm I only recognise 9, and of those 9 I only remember 7 names
Do you want some hints?

I would take some. Of the ones I don't know for sure, I think I'm close on first row, fourth spot. French?

by JazzNU I can confidently name 3. Fairly certain I can name a 4th and 5th if allowed 3 chances to guess each. Although for one, I think I can get it on the 1st try, but he looks so young (and honestly, better), it's hard for me to have any faith in getting it on the first try.

I couldn't get to 14 if I was given 100 tries, so older or not, well done Kevin.

by dmforever Row 1 = the top
Y'all know the top 5 for sure. They have all won at least 1 slam. In row two, there is a very very famous American player. He has won multiple slams. He's just very young in that pic. In row 3 there is an equally famous American player, and he and another row 3 occupant do commentary for ESPN. Yes, there are two French players, on in row 1 and one in row 2. Row 5 has a GS finalist not from the Americas or Europe. Row 2 may have a Grand Slam champ from South America, but I'm not sure. Maybe not. Row 2 also has a European player with an Italian nickname that still gets thrown out every once in a while on ESPN when they reference big guys who move deceptively well.

Kevin

by dmforever

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:30 pm I can confidently name 3. Fairly certain I can name a 4th and 5th if allowed 3 chances to guess each. Although for one, I think I can get it on the 1st try, but he looks so young (and honestly, better), it's hard for me to have any faith in getting it on the first try.

I couldn't get to 14 if I was given 100 tries, so older or not, well done Kevin.

You definitely know all 5 guys in the top row. They are just a lot younger than what you are used to seeing.

And the second and third row each have a very famous American GS-winning player. Again, they are just very young.

Kevin

by meganfernandez

dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:13 pm
JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:30 pm I can confidently name 3. Fairly certain I can name a 4th and 5th if allowed 3 chances to guess each. Although for one, I think I can get it on the 1st try, but he looks so young (and honestly, better), it's hard for me to have any faith in getting it on the first try.

I couldn't get to 14 if I was given 100 tries, so older or not, well done Kevin.
You definitely know all 5 guys in the top row. They are just a lot younger than what you are used to seeing. And the second and third row each have a very famous American GS-winning player. Again, they are just very young.

Kevin

Good hints. There are some names I feel like are here - like Nystrom, Kriek, Pernfors, Mayotte - but I can't figure out who they are. Is Nystrom in the third row, middle, with the blonde mullet? And Mayotte at the end of that row?

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:11 pm How many do you recognize? I only got 9 for sure.
YYYNY
YNYYN
YNNYN
NNNNN

Recognize.jpeg

Without any hints, I got 14 for sure, I believe - probably 15, and possibly 16 if I got the bushy blonde right...
Here's what I got, if anyone wants to peek into the spoiler:

► Show Spoiler

.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:17 pm Pernfors

Yeah - I'm quite sure that's the one I said I should know, but am drawing a blank on.
Probably because I never really liked watching him play

.

by JazzNU

dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:13 pm
JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:30 pm I can confidently name 3. Fairly certain I can name a 4th and 5th if allowed 3 chances to guess each. Although for one, I think I can get it on the 1st try, but he looks so young (and honestly, better), it's hard for me to have any faith in getting it on the first try.

I couldn't get to 14 if I was given 100 tries, so older or not, well done Kevin.
You definitely know all 5 guys in the top row. They are just a lot younger than what you are used to seeing. And the second and third row each have a very famous American GS-winning player. Again, they are just very young.

Kevin

Yeah, the American GS winners in the second and third row were ones I got even at that age. Also an easy one in row 1 (position 2). The others that I'm pretty certain of other than that are the first row (position 1), and the third row (position 1).

I'm running out but I'll really have to take a hard look at this first row again when I get back. I really tried before, but nothing was popping, so I'll look again with your hints.

by dmforever

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:17 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:13 pm
JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:30 pm I can confidently name 3. Fairly certain I can name a 4th and 5th if allowed 3 chances to guess each. Although for one, I think I can get it on the 1st try, but he looks so young (and honestly, better), it's hard for me to have any faith in getting it on the first try.

I couldn't get to 14 if I was given 100 tries, so older or not, well done Kevin.
You definitely know all 5 guys in the top row. They are just a lot younger than what you are used to seeing. And the second and third row each have a very famous American GS-winning player. Again, they are just very young.

Kevin
Good hints. There are some names I feel like are here - like Nystrom, Kriek, Pernfors, Mayotte - but I can't figure out who they are. Is Nystrom in the third row, middle, with the blonde mullet? And Mayotte at the end of that row?

I didn't see Kriek, but I do see the others that you mentioned. Did you just know because of the year? That is truly impressive. I think Nystrom is there but I thought he was in the second row. There is another Swede who I think was in that group whose name I can't remember right now. It's bugging me, so I'm going to have to go down that rabbit hole.

Kevin

by mmmm8

Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:19 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:11 pm How many do you recognize? I only got 9 for sure.
YYYNY
YNYYN
YNNYN
NNNNN

Recognize.jpeg
Without any hints, I got 14 for sure, I believe - probably 15, and possibly 16 if I got the bushy blonde right...
Here's what I got, if anyone wants to peek into the spoiler:

► Show Spoiler
Row 1: Lendl / Becker / Wilander / Noah / Edberg
Row 2: Leconte / Nystrom / Connors / Mecir / Corretja?
Row 3: Gilbert / ?? (I definitely should know this one – drawing a blank) / Courrier? / McEnroe (John) / Mayotte (Tim)
Row 4: ?? / ?? / Curren / Jarryd / ??
.

Some impressive work there on the spoilers, but not only does that one person not look like Alex Corretja (I thought it was Lendl before I saw Lendl), Corretja was 13 in 1987.

by mmmm8

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:29 pm
Some impressive work there on the spoilers, but not only does that one person not look like Alex Corretja (I thought it was Lendl before I saw Lendl), Corretja was 13 in 1987.

Andres Gomez!

by Deuce

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:29 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:19 pm Without any hints, I got 14 for sure, I believe - probably 15, and possibly 16 if I got the bushy blonde right...
Here's what I got, if anyone wants to peek into the spoiler:

► Show Spoiler
Row 1: Lendl / Becker / Wilander / Noah / Edberg
Row 2: Leconte / Nystrom / Connors / Mecir / Corretja?
Row 3: Gilbert / ?? (I definitely should know this one – drawing a blank) / Courrier? / McEnroe (John) / Mayotte (Tim)
Row 4: ?? / ?? / Curren / Jarryd / ??
.
Some impressive work there on the spoilers, but not only does that one person not look like Alex Corretja (I thought it was Lendl before I saw Lendl), Corretja was 13 in 1987.

^ Oops!

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:32 pm Andres Gomez!

^ Yes...
I knew it was a clay court player... I was going through several names - Costa... Brugera... For some reason, I settled on Corretja. I obviously didn't check the age!

I should have gotten Gomez.
Initially, I thought that photo looked a lot like Sampras.

by JazzNU

dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:12 pm Row 1 = the top
Y'all know the top 5 for sure. They have all won at least 1 slam. In row two, there is a very very famous American player. He has won multiple slams. He's just very young in that pic. In row 3 there is an equally famous American player, and he and another row 3 occupant do commentary for ESPN. Yes, there are two French players, on in row 1 and one in row 2. Row 5 has a GS finalist not from the Americas or Europe. Row 2 may have a Grand Slam champ from South America, but I'm not sure. Maybe not. Row 2 also has a European player with an Italian nickname that still gets thrown out every once in a while on ESPN when they reference big guys who move deceptively well.

Kevin

Okay, I have not looked at anyone else's guesses. I have zoomed in on the photo, which does help, I'm much more certain than I was on the other guy in Row 3, but I still can't name the entire top row. 1, 2, and 4 I can get. I can honestly say that #3 looks very familiar and I know I've seen him before, but don't know his name based on this photo, but potentially, may not know him by name if I see him now either. Number 5 is a blank seriously, but based off of your clues, I could take a guess, but I keep looking at him and thinking, it can't possibly be.

Now, I know this is pitiful, but I I will also say a bit in my defense, besides being somewhat younger than many on here, I think this is also a bit on the tennis coverage we get nowadays. When we had Wimbledon on HBO, for instance, rain delays were mostly a time for them to play a rerun of some old spectacular match, not the match that they just finished airing a couple of hours earlier. It's how I watched what many consider the greatest tiebreak in tennis history, for instance. TNT would also do way more retrospective stuff, I'd see a bit more of players in their prime and what they looked like at the time. ESPN really doesn't do that now, and on Tennis Channel, I think they do that at times, but it's not during live coverage windows, I'd have to seek it out.

Reference photo since we're on a new page -

by ashkor87 12 ..but I am older than most people here AND I lived in the US when most of them were in their prime so have seen them live

by ashkor87 I once had Connors standing next to me watching an NCAA match..he didn't want to disturb the players so he was standing under a tree watching..as was I..don't know why I was under the tree, hot day maybe..I said hi to him and he was very nice..

by ponchi101 Sorry to be so arrogant but... I got 17

Then again, who is the old foggie here

by dmforever

JazzNU wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:23 am
dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:12 pm Row 1 = the top
Y'all know the top 5 for sure. They have all won at least 1 slam. In row two, there is a very very famous American player. He has won multiple slams. He's just very young in that pic. In row 3 there is an equally famous American player, and he and another row 3 occupant do commentary for ESPN. Yes, there are two French players, on in row 1 and one in row 2. Row 5 has a GS finalist not from the Americas or Europe. Row 2 may have a Grand Slam champ from South America, but I'm not sure. Maybe not. Row 2 also has a European player with an Italian nickname that still gets thrown out every once in a while on ESPN when they reference big guys who move deceptively well.

Kevin
Okay, I have not looked at anyone else's guesses. I have zoomed in on the photo, which does help, I'm much more certain than I was on the other guy in Row 3, but I still can't name the entire top row. 1, 2, and 4 I can get. I can honestly say that #3 looks very familiar and I know I've seen him before, but don't know his name based on this photo, but potentially, may not know him by name if I see him now either. Number 5 is a blank seriously, but based off of your clues, I could take a guess, but I keep looking at him and thinking, it can't possibly be.

Now, I know this is pitiful, but I I will also say a bit in my defense, besides being somewhat younger than many on here, I think this is also a bit on the tennis coverage we get nowadays. When we had Wimbledon on HBO, for instance, rain delays were mostly a time for them to play a rerun of some old spectacular match, not the match that they just finished airing a couple of hours earlier. It's how I watched what many consider the greatest tiebreak in tennis history, for instance. TNT would also do way more retrospective stuff, I'd see a bit more of players in their prime and what they looked like at the time. ESPN really doesn't do that now, and on Tennis Channel, I think they do that at times, but it's not during live coverage windows, I'd have to seek it out.

Reference photo since we're on a new page -

Number 5 you have seen sitting in the Wimbledon Box many times, I'm sure. They always show him.

Kevin

by Deuce #5 and #19 were a formidable doubles team...

by ti-amie

ASH BASH Ash Barty celebrates Australian Open win by drinking beer on live TV after promising to wait until after final
Joshua Jones
12:13, 29 Jan 2022Updated: 12:52, 29 Jan 2022

ASH BARTY celebrated her Australian Open win by drinking a beer live on TV.

The Aussie hero, 25, promised on Thursday to wait until after the final before sinking a lager.

Asked if she was going to enjoy a few cheeky beers after her semi-final win, Barty replied: “I’d love to say yes but I am the ultimate professional.

“I won’t do that. I will save those for when we can celebrate afterwards.

"We can celebrate the journey we have been on and I cannot wait.”

And after beating Danielle Collins 6-3 7-6 at her home Grand Slam to lift the crown, she stuck to her word.

Barty headed into the Channel 9 studio at Melbourne Park to do media after getting her hands on the Daphne Akhurst Memorial Cup.

She was offered a bottle of Corona and duly accepted before insisting she's 'not drinking alone'.

So she was joined by close pal and tennis doubles partner Casey Dellacqua in enjoying her first celebratory bottle.

Barty added: “Case changed my life. She brought me into this sport again and allowed me to grow as a person. I love her.”

The world No1 was famously spotted with a pint in hand at an Aussie Rules match in 2020 as she skipped her defence of the French Open during lockdown.

She made a beeline for Dellacqua after wrapping up the victory on Rod Laver Arena and enjoyed a special embrace before kissing her on the forehead in a touching gesture.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/17480040 ... g-beer-tv/

Well thank goodness it wasn't a, uh, cigar.

by ponchi101 A Corona? WTF? The Aussie do not have any good lagers to celebrate with?
Or was she playing a joke? "I got a Corona by THE END of the tournament!"

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:32 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:29 pm
Some impressive work there on the spoilers, but not only does that one person not look like Alex Corretja (I thought it was Lendl before I saw Lendl), Corretja was 13 in 1987.
Andres Gomez!

Yep - that was the GS finalist who isn't from the US or Europe, which was Kevin's clue. I still didn't get it... I think he lost to Wilander in 88. Shoudl have known because Wilander in 88 is one of my earliest tennis memories. I loved him (because my older brother did) and he won 3 that year.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 1:46 am Sorry to be so arrogant but... I got 17
Then again, who is the old foggie here

Nice! Not arrogant. Love that we have this kind of knowledge on TAT2!

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:58 am 12 ..but I am older than most people here AND I lived in the US when most of them were in their prime so have seen them live

Well done!

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:16 am #5 and #19 were a formidable doubles team...

Good pickup on 19. I was thinking Enqvist even though I know that doesn't look like him. Too early for Courier, though. Just a little bit.

I didn't see Kriek, but I do see the others that you mentioned. Did you just know because of the year? That is truly impressive. I think Nystrom is there but I thought he was in the second row. There is another Swede who I think was in that group whose name I can't remember right now. It's bugging me, so I'm going to have to go down that rabbit hole.

Kevin

Yes, knew the names from that era. I remember a lot of names from mid go late 80s, when I started watching tennis, but can't match the faces. Thought Kriekstein and Cash might be in here but I don't think I see them.

by dmforever OMG I just realized who the bottom left hand corner is. Think a WTA player recently portrayed in a movie.

Kevin

by 3mlm The pictures are the top 20 players of the 1986 year-end ATP rankings, in order, if you want to check your guesses.

by Deuce

3mlm wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:37 am The pictures are the top 20 players of the 1986 year-end ATP rankings, in order, if you want to check your guesses.

I don't think so.
Most of them, yes - but I don't see Kriek or Cash among the 20 photos...

https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.co ... 24-03-1986
(use the drop down menu to select 'year end')

* Edit* - 'ELO Ranking' was selected when I looked. When I changed it to 'ATP Ranking', Kriek and Cash were gone - and so it does seem to correspond with the photos - in order, even.
.

by meganfernandez

dmforever wrote:OMG I just realized who the bottom left hand corner is. Think a WTA player recently portrayed in a movie.

Kevin

Que bueno!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:29 am A Corona? WTF? The Aussie do not have any good lagers to celebrate with?
Or was she playing a joke? "I got a Corona by THE END of the tournament!"

It was going to say it was probably something that was on hand because of a tournament sponsorship, but looks like the AO official beer is Peroni

by mmmm8

dmforever wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 6:43 am OMG I just realized who the bottom left hand corner is. Think a WTA player recently portrayed in a movie.

Kevin

I actually thought that player should probably be on that list but couldn't align any of the faces to what I think he'd look like young.

Also would never have recognized Thierry Tulasne with hair, plus thought he was younger than he is (I peeked at the rankings).

by ti-amie

Recognize.jpeg

by ponchi101 I missed Sanchez, Jaite and Tulasne. Txs, that was fun.
BTW. Carlsson was usually confused with KENNETH CARLSSEN, from Denmark, perhaps the most extreme topspin player in the history of the sport. His ball would clear the net by 8-9 feet on average. It was a moonball with spin. He looked promising but eventually people figured out how to beat him easily, which was to stand on the baseline and then rush into his shot and take it as a volley. Of course, his passing shot was also very high so the player at the net had a relatively easy time smashing it.

by dmforever

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:03 pm

Bahahahaha. Snort. Chuckle. Gaffaw. Bahahahahahah.
Why anyone of his stature (meaning very little) would make such a grandiose statement is beyond me. Wow.

Kevin

by MJ2004 Please remind me the highest level event he’s won, or better yet, the highest round he’s been to at Wimbledon and how long ago that was?

Priceless

Edit: One QF, 11 years ago.

by meganfernandez

MJ2004 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:33 pm Can please remind me the highest level event he’s won, or better yet, the highest round he’s been to at Wimbledon and how long ago that was?

Priceless

Edit: One QF, 11 years ago.

But he's GOING to win it. WE ALL KNOW THIS!

Maybe dubs with Kyrgios.

by Liamvalid Ah I though middle, third row down, was Wayne Ferreira. Knock another point off me

by JazzNU I can't believe that's Stefan. I had figured it out based on clues from Kevin and the year of the guide, but I keep staring at him and keep not seeing it.

Mats Wilander? Know him of course, knew he looked familiar, but absolutely couldn't land on who that was.

Emilio Sanchez? I can see the resemblance now, absolutely not before.

I believe, but can't promise, that I'd do a it better with a similar guide from probably just a few years later, like 1990.

I think those of you that are older and have been watching tennis for years and years and just know all these players from having watched them, would likely be a bit surprised how much good players, even GS winners, are not mentioned much past the time they played. Very, very few names here are recognizable to me. And I remember before when we were doing best matches voting on TAT 1.0 there were a few mentions of a female GS winner, apparently a multi-slam winner, that I had never heard. I think she was winning in the 80s, so hardly ancient, but many names just become answers to trivia questions more often than you'd think.

by meganfernandez

JazzNU wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:47 pm I can't believe that's Stefan. I had figured it out based on clues from Kevin and the year of the guide, but I keep staring at him and keep not seeing it.

Mats Wilander? Know him of course, knew he looked familiar, but absolutely couldn't land on who that was.

Emilio Sanchez? I can see the resemblance now, absolutely not before.

I believe, but can't promise, that I'd do a it better with a similar guide from probably just a few years later, like 1990.

I think those of you that are older and have been watching tennis for years and years and just know all these players from having watched them, would likely be a bit surprised how much good players, even GS winners, are not mentioned much past the time they played. Very, very few names here are recognizable to me. And I remember before when we were doing best matches voting on TAT 1.0 there were a few mentions of a female GS winner, apparently a multi-slam winner, that I had never heard. I think she was winning in the 80s, so hardly ancient, but many names just become answers to trivia questions more often than you'd think.

Hana Mandlikova?

Wilander was my first favorite player. I was around 14. My older brother liked him, so I decided to, and he won 3 Grand Slams that year (1988), so that sealed it. I accosted him at the US Open a couple years ago for a photo. So that's how I know him. I guess these days, people hear his name and might hear his voice more than see his face.

I would never have gotten Sanchez. Never watched him.

by JazzNU I think Mats Wilander's name is fairly well known by current tennis fans because he's still in the public eye, but also how he won and his age. His name was mentioned a lot back when Rafa was first winning the French if you recall.

Pretty sure Hana is the right player. If she's won like 3 or 4 GS titles in the 80s I believe, then that's correct. Seriously, no clue who that is. You wouldn't think a multi-slam winner could disappear from the conversation even as a reference point so quickly, but I'm telling you, never heard of her once before those polls we were doing. I was looking her up like who? When was this?

I've seen a mention or two of Andres Gomez from people on here in the past, but never once can I recall hearing it during a broadcast. Another player I just don't know despite the GS title.

by meganfernandez

JazzNU wrote:I think Mats Wilander's name is fairly well known by current tennis fans because he's still in the public eye, but also how he won and his age. His name was mentioned a lot back when Rafa was first winning the French if you recall.

Pretty sure Hana is the right player. If she's won like 3 or 4 GS titles in the 80s I believe, then that's correct. Seriously, no clue who that is. You wouldn't think a multi-slam winner could disappear from the conversation even as a reference point so quickly, but I'm telling you, never heard of her once before those polls we were doing. I was looking her up like who? When was this?

I've seen a mention or two of Andres Gomez from people on here in the past, but never once can I recall hearing it during a broadcast. Another player I just don't know despite the GS title.

You never hear Michael Stich, either. He won Wimbledon in 1991.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by Deuce The only reason anyone hears Petr Korda's name today is because of his kids...
Thomas Johansson, anyone?

by JazzNU

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:43 am You never hear Michael Stich, either. He won Wimbledon in 1991.

Yes, a great example. I remember Michael well, but make me 10 years younger and I doubt I'd know who he was.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:57 pm ...

Hana Mandlikova?

Wilander was my first favorite player. I was around 14. My older brother liked him, so I decided to, and he won 3 Grand Slams that year (1988), so that sealed it. I accosted him at the US Open a couple years ago for a photo. So that's how I know him. I guess these days, people hear his name and might hear his voice more than see his face.

I would never have gotten Sanchez. Never watched him.

Yes, Mandlikova. Only slam missing was Wimby, and she was a clear cut #3 behind Chris and Martina. Personally, the greatest forehand volley of all times, male or female. It was a put-away shot 90% of the time. The serve and volley was only one notch below Martina's.

by ponchi101

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:15 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:43 am You never hear Michael Stich, either. He won Wimbledon in 1991.

Yes, a great example. I remember Michael well, but make me 10 years younger and I doubt I'd know who he was.

The obscure ones: Stich, Krajicek, Costa. Just examples. And by the way: Stich and Krajicek were truly complete players. They just had the bad luck of having to face Sampras and Agassi over and over (Stich) or being injured all the time (Krajicek). If you think players like Delpo are frequently injured, you just don't know Krajicek's story. He was out at least 9 times for lengthy periods due to injuries.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:56 am
Yes, Mandlikova. Only slam missing was Wimby, and she was a clear cut #3 behind Chris and Martina.

That's what is more surprising about not having heard a thing about her. I figured as a multi-slam winner, this wasn't just two good weeks, she was an excellent, highly ranked player for many years. I do understand Ostapenko and Gaudio likely being more forgotten as the years pass (though I will likely always remember Gaudio's backhand).

In terms of Stich, I figure we should hear about him as much if not more than Ivanisevic (in a non-coaching context I mean), but we don't. But to be fair, we don't hear a ton about Patrick Rafter recently either. Could be he starts to be one of the more forgotten ones too.

by dmforever While we are on the subject of Hana Mandlikova, I thought I'd share this separated at birth. If any of you are Indigo Girls fans, you'll recognize Amy Ray. I posted this on a FB Indigo Girls fan page and everyone thought Hana was Amy, or vice versa.

by mmmm8

Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:12 am The only reason anyone hears Petr Korda's name today is because of his kids...
Thomas Johansson, anyone?

Johansson has started on a solid coaching career (Sakkari, Krajinovic, Goffin), so still a bit in the public eye.

Sidenote - incredibly polite guy, from my experiences back in my media life, and he and Jonas Bjorkmans were true BFFs

by meganfernandez

dmforever wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 6:38 am While we are on the subject of Hana Mandlikova, I thought I'd share this separated at birth. If any of you are Indigo Girls fans, you'll recognize Amy Ray. I posted this on a FB Indigo Girls fan page and everyone thought Hana was Amy, or vice versa.

Good one!

Wimbledon-streaker-001.jpg

by Deuce

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:57 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:12 am The only reason anyone hears Petr Korda's name today is because of his kids...
Thomas Johansson, anyone?
Johansson has started on a solid coaching career (Sakkari, Krajinovic, Goffin), so still a bit in the public eye.

Sidenote - incredibly polite guy, from my experiences back in my media life, and he and Jonas Bjorkmans were true BFFs

Yes, I've spoken with Johansson a few times - he was always very down to Earth. I joked around with him a couple of times, including once where he said that he had won a certain tournament in a certain year, and I told him that he actually won it the year after he stated. He was unconvinced that I was correct. When I found a sort of banner on a practice court listing all of the winners of the tournament - and the year they won, I pointed it out to, saying that I was right and he was wrong, and we laughed about it.
Then I asked him when he won the Aussie Open, and he immediately said "'02". I said "Correct. This time. Apparently, you only remember the big ones..."

I think he began his coaching at the pro level with Coric.
I saw him alone on a practice court right after playing a 'floor hockey' game on one of the courts (where current and former tennis players take on current and former NHL players in a friendly game). The tennis players won the game, so I congratulated him on the win. He laughed. Then I said "And we really appreciate you coming all this way just to play the hockey game. Not many people would do that."
He didn't seem to realize I was kidding, and told me that he was actually there coaching a young kid named Coric. I told him I was disappointed that he didn't come just for the hockey game.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU

by JazzNU IOC President Thomas Bach spotted with Peng Shuai at the Women's Big Air event tonight.

Well great, along with the clearly not at all influenced statement after their meeting in recent days, we can all stop worrying about her now!

Give me a damn break. This is embarrassing.

by ponchi101 Only thing I will disagree about: No, it is no embarrassing. It is the IOC. Par for the course.
(You are totally right)

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 Hope the tennis world grabs the opportunity - boycott China and move the Australian Open to late Fall in the NH, then it wont be so terribly hot in Melbourne..!

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:02 pm Hope the tennis world grabs the opportunity - boycott China and move the Australian Open to late Fall in the NH, then it wont be so terribly hot in Melbourne..!

Interesting idea, end the season with the AO. But then what happens to the year-ending championships? Just not have them? Summer starts in December down there. I looked up the weather in October and it's pretty good - not much rain and just 10 degrees cooler than Jan, on average. They could definitely use that.

It might work if the other Slams moved up a month. Paris in early May (or late April), Wimbledon early June, US Open early August, then AO early October and year-ending championships and early December. Then when is Davis Cup and Fed Cup? Same? And are those times of year good for the French or AO? Most want to take place in summer. One plus is that the US Open wouldn't overlap the start of the NFL season.

by ponchi101 Remember that the Aussie was held in December for many years. And it did not work out. Many players decided not to go, most notably Borg and Connors. And those were the lean years of the Aussie.

by Deuce Yes - there's probably something to that...
Going to Australia is a long trip for most players. And so having it as the final Major at the end of the season risks having players not go because they are tired from the season.
But beginning the season with the Aussie Open provides a rather natural incentive for players to go - because they are eager and enthusiastic to start the new season.

I agree, though, that it would be good to try to do something about the heat in Melbourne, as, not only does it make for a lower quality of tennis overall, but it can also be dangerous - for players and fans alike.
The Earth being situated where it is within the solar system, though, along with human activity screwing with its natural climates more and more, the options for moving around the dates of the Majors are somewhat limited.

by JazzNU AO in the fall or end of the year seems like a terrible idea to me. This is very American-centric, but the TV contracts in the US is some of the biggest revenue these tournaments get. The sports landscape is stacked in late fall and early winter. Period. Indian Wells was nothing but an afterthought this year in its own country because of when it occurred. I barely saw a mention on the ESPN scroll about it. I mentioned at the time how awful the timing of it was even though obviously it made sense for 2021, but in general, a bad idea.

Also, you make it in the Fall or December in the US, and I promise you, the TV coverage this time on ESPN will look great in comparison to what it becomes. You might, and I would heavily stress the might, get some after 11 PM and before 6 AM coverage, but I wouldn't even count on that. I'd guess semis and finals are all that make it onto ESPN, the rest gets relegated to Plus.

I think there's zero chance of the other slams moving in any context. I don't think Aussie Open has that kind of pull, and the dates the others hold them have been for a good reason and they won't budge from the dates they are in.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 7:40 pm Remember that the Aussie was held in December for many years. And it did not work out. Many players decided not to go, most notably Borg and Connors. And those were the lean years of the Aussie.

But was it because of the tournament's timing or something like how hard it was to travel then? And maybe the tournament didn't pamper players as much?

by ponchi101 The top players simply decided that it was not worth going there. The finals were held around Dec 20th, so it was hard to get back home for the Xmas holidays. Borg was very much against it, and then Connors decided that if Borg was not going, why would he bother? Then Mac did the same.
And it was, indeed, the smallest of all Slams, making it a hard sell.

by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:50 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 7:40 pm Remember that the Aussie was held in December for many years. And it did not work out. Many players decided not to go, most notably Borg and Connors. And those were the lean years of the Aussie.
But was it because of the tournament's timing or something like how hard it was to travel then? And maybe the tournament didn't pamper players as much?

All those,plus people (like us) werent counting majors as if it is the only metric that matters ..!

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:50 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 7:40 pm Remember that the Aussie was held in December for many years. And it did not work out. Many players decided not to go, most notably Borg and Connors. And those were the lean years of the Aussie.
But was it because of the tournament's timing or something like how hard it was to travel then? And maybe the tournament didn't pamper players as much?
All those,plus people (like us) werent counting majors as if it is the only metric that matters ..!

Good point. And maybe the prize money wasn’t what it is now…

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ponchi101 Prize money in those days was around $25K for the winner. Imagine first or second rounds. Plus, of course, in the 1970's there were few airplanes that could fly non-stop to Australia. So it was not a one or two hops, it was probably three.

by JazzNU McEnroe says he wishes he had gone to more. But he says a lot of thing. He wishes he had more GS titles is what he really means and especially more than Lendl.

I don't think the changes between now and then matter, I don't see it moving on the calendar unless it's to later in January or beginning of February to give the players a more reasonable off-season.

by JTContinental I doubt anyone would skip the chance at today's prize money at the AO no matter when they held it. The tennis establishment hates change, though, so I doubt a move would ever happen.

by ponchi101 Notice that the sole significant change in the calendar, in the last ... two decades?... has been the extension of the grass court season, adding one single week of two more tournaments.
Other than that, maybe the women cutting down a bit on their season. So, sure. No way the Aussie is moving much.

by JazzNU

by atlpam

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:35 pm

Nice company

by ponchi101 Too bad we will have to wait until the fall to see if she can pass Jana, Justin and Lindsay. It looks doable.

by dmforever

atlpam wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:51 pm
JazzNU wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:35 pm
Nice company

It's interesting that Henin's streak was over a 3-year period. And assuming that she played 4 or 5 rounds at that tournament, it means she didn't play a ton of other indoor tournaments. Maybe 1 more each year?

Kevin

by JazzNU

dmforever wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 6:40 am
It's interesting that Henin's streak was over a 3-year period. And assuming that she played 4 or 5 rounds at that tournament, it means she didn't play a ton of other indoor tournaments. Maybe 1 more each year?

Kevin

That's encompassing that period when she announced that sudden retirement and then made a comeback, remember? So that first year of the streak will be her last full season on tour before the first retirement, likely one or two of the fall tournaments plus the WTA Finals and then the end of the streak is going to be part of when she was doing her comeback.

Arguably, her streak could've been longer than the 22 if it wasn't broken up by her first retirement.

by ponchi101 Daria Kasatkina hits an ace on match point (because I did not want to use another sport's metaphor):
"We all see how Djokovic wants people to like him but it doesn't work. Because in the end, it always feels like something is wrong."

by ashkor87 Now Djoko has said in a bbc interview that will sit out the majors if vaccination is required...atleast he is being consistent!

by ashkor87 It actually means less than it seems..France and UK will be open anyway by then, only the US remains, and even they might . Djokovic can afford to wait and maintain his image of steadfastness

by ponchi101 I wrote this before. Countries will be open but most likely for vaccinated people. And maybe both tours will start some DBase of who is vaccinated with what vaccine.
I will use Colombia as an example. Yes, it is open, but you have to be vaccinated to come in. The Colombian Tennis Federation told players that the rule is simple: even at Futures level, all players have to be vaccinated, WITH NO EXCEPTIONS.
Sure, we don't have any sort of anti-vaxx movement, which helps us, but I still wonder how Europe will handle non-vaccinated foreigners.

by JazzNU

by JazzNU And this plus likable things like that ^^ are why I'm convinced no one is cheering on the likes of Felix, Andrey, and Sinner to contend consistently at majors more than those in charge at the ATP because doesn't this look much more appealing to the public than Malcontent Medvedev, Bathroom Break Tsitsipas, and Allegedly Abusive Alexander.

by ponchi101 Well. You have to admit that Felix, Rublev and Sinner make way less news that the top three new guys, which is how, at least I, like it. The sole news they make are tennis related. So, less to talk about, but more to root for.
My position, only that.

by Deuce It's quite sad that a gesture like that from Felix surprises the hell out of everyone and is regarded today as "a great gesture of sportsmanship". It shows how low the standard for decency is.

Don't get me wrong - Felix did a good thing, and it's good to show it. But the fact that the announcers (among others) were talking about it as if he just ran into a burning building to save an 85 year old woman in a wheelchair is a sad reflection of society's standards today. In a healthy society (general society, or sporting society, etc.), things like this are normal and expected - and it is when these things DON'T occur that it is surprising.

All that said, Felix has always been a genuinely respectful, class act - even when he was a kid.

by Deuce .

I watched a documentary about Althea Gibson the other night on PBS.

Then I found this gem...

Althea was quite an accomplished golfer after her tennis career was over, as well...

.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie I'm hoping, along with the last poster, that new European indoor events will be held next year.

by JazzNU I've never understood this particular part of the criticism about the WTA. To me, they seem to be trying their best for the most part, but they have an uphill battle that can't be won as quickly as those, particularly in the West, want and expect to happen. So much criticism seems to be about how they aren't run well because they don't have as many tournaments week in and week out as the ATP, and no mention of just straight up sexism. Unless and until @ponchi can easily watch a random early round match of a WTA tournament on TV in Colombia of a non-South American player, then I can't be surprised that the women have less tournaments. Clearly they have less buyers of their product in various markets simply because they are marketing women.

Also, even when they get tournaments, it's no guarantee it's a long-term commitment because several times, the interest in having one is tied to an emerging or existing star in their own country, think of the tournament that used to be in Denmark. Then it was gone. With Clara emerging, maybe there will be interest again. But this is something the ATP just doesn't seem to have to deal with much.

I'm as hopeful as others that we'll get there, but the expectations people place on the WTA to become an exact mirror of the ATP in tournaments and pay immediately while rarely mentioning the problems they contend with that the ATP doesn't has never made a bit of sense to me. Even here in the US, there are numerous comments on Tennis Channel's posts while airing a WTA match complaining about airing the "substandard women's matches" when it's like Kvitova vs. Sabalenka and to "just put on the ATP."

It has never been an apples to apples situation. I wish more of the tennis reporters on Twitter added more context to their WTA criticism and comparisons such as this, because they consistently throw shade at the WTA.

by mick1303

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:49 pm I've never understood this particular part of the criticism about the WTA. To me, they seem to be trying their best for the most part, but they have an uphill battle that can't be won as quickly as those, particularly in the West, want and expect to happen. So much criticism seems to be about how they aren't run well because they don't have as many tournaments week in and week out as the ATP, and no mention of just straight up sexism. Unless and until @ponchi can easily watch a random early round match of a WTA tournament on TV in Colombia of a non-South American player, then I can't be surprised that the women have less tournaments. Clearly they have less buyers of their product in various markets simply because they are marketing women.

Also, even when they get tournaments, it's no guarantee it's a long-term commitment because several times, the interest in having one is tied to an emerging or existing star in their own country, think of the tournament that used to be in Denmark. Then it was gone. With Clara emerging, maybe there will be interest again. But this is something the ATP just doesn't seem to have to deal with much.

I'm as hopeful as others that we'll get there, but the expectations people place on the WTA to become an exact mirror of the ATP in tournaments and pay immediately while rarely mentioning the problems they contend with that the ATP doesn't has never made a bit of sense to me. Even here in the US, there are numerous comments on Tennis Channel's posts while airing a WTA match complaining about airing the "substandard women's matches" when it's like Kvitova vs. Sabalenka and to "just put on the ATP."

It has never been an apples to apples situation. I wish more of the tennis reporters on Twitter added more context to their WTA criticism and comparisons such as this, because they consistently throw shade at the WTA.

It is true, those circumstances are beyond WTA control. But making an adequate website is completely within their control. Nonetheless they neglect to do so. ATP site is well structured and have easily accesible archive and players database. There are some issues but generally it is 10 times better than that of WTA.

by Fastbackss "When you focus on how the process isn't working fast enough for your liking it impedes the long term progress"

by ponchi101 Of course, right now I cannot watch Colombian TV because I am not in Bogota, but to add to JazzNu's assessment: last year, ESPN had a big promotion on "follow Nadia Podoroska and all the stars of the WTA... on ESPN PLAY and ESPN +". Those are their website platforms. I don't think I saw one single Podoroska match on the regular cable ones the entire year (I know, she did not go too far on any tournament).
And I know wonder if, with Maria Camila's rise, any Colombian TV station is showing Guadalajara. So, if you can't get on TV, you don't get any money. It is that simple.
I know that they will show Bogota, but that is because they only have to point a camera out of the station's window (I jest). But that is not the way to increase participation in the sport, both for young people playing and all people watching.

by JazzNU

mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:33 am
It is true, those circumstances are beyond WTA control. But making an adequate website is completely within their control. Nonetheless they neglect to do so. ATP site is well structured and have easily accesible archive and players database. There are some issues but generally it is 10 times better than that of WTA.

I specifically said "this particular part" of the criticism against the WTA. Where did I once mention the website? I've been one of the biggest critics of the WTA site on this forum.

This feels like purposely glossing over the larger points I mentioned since I very clearly limited what I was focusing on. Sexism impeding the sport and a website not being well managed. One should get more ire than the other.

by ti-amie All you have to do is listen to JMac when he is forced to call a WTA match (not that he knows anything about ATP players not based in the US but he doesn't even pretend to care about the WTA). The thing is the WTA has done next to nothing to make the men who run tennis have to deal with them as equals. Allaster's deal with China was disastrous but she did seem to fight for the women to get equal media coverage and grudging respect for the WTA. Steve Simon has succeeded in making the WTA disappear.

The thing is these days a website is many new fans first impression of your sport and if you know next to nothing about the WTA but have seen some exciting matches that made your curious you would be sorely disappointed visiting that horrible web site. Sexism is real but when you're shooting yourself in the foot day after day you can't blame it just on idiots like JMac.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie So there was this in Acapulco last night...

Followed by this

What is the difference between being "withdrawn" and being "defaulted"?

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:29 pm So there was this in Acapulco last night...

Followed by this

What is the difference between being "withdrawn" and being "defaulted"?

Oh my god. He could have easily hurt the umpire's foot or leg. This should be more than a default eventually. That was awful. Also, I'm guessing withdrawn and defaulted are synonymous for all practical purposes, but I'm not sure.

by ti-amie There's an argument about it on TennisTwitter and it seems most of us don't know the difference either. There should also be a huge fine.

by Deuce Not really a smart thing to do after you've been accused of assault...

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:41 pm There's an argument about it on TennisTwitter and it seems most of us don't know the difference either. There should also be a huge fine.

I prefer "thrown out on his hiney."

Huge fine and a couple months of suspension at least, I'd think. Wonder what the rules say. Has TennisTwitter dug into the rulebook yet on suspensions for unsportsmanlike conduct?

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Some of the Tweets from earlier today regarding the incident.

by ti-amie

by Woody It is difficult to put into words... so I had my publicist do it. I'll believe this is his own sentiment when I see video of him saying it.

by ponchi101 He will not be suspended. Let's remember the ATP's record on that.
1. Mac was defaulted from a match at the Aussie open IN 1990 (if I remember well), and a decade of terrorizing umpires. He was not suspended.
2. Kyrgios infamous words to Wawrinka led to a "suspended suspension". That was it. Certainly not as violent in the physical sense of the actions by Zverev, but that was a very low point, especially the comments about Donna.
3. Shapovalov's unfortunate hit of the umpire mean disqualification of the match, nothing more (agree, he truly looked like he did not mean to do that).
4. Novax at the USO '20. No need to dig that corpse up.

They never get suspended. It is not in the ATP's "manual" and they don't have, as the Mexican writer in one tweet above says, "los huevos" for that.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 4:15 pm He will not be suspended. Let's remember the ATP's record on that.
1. Mac was defaulted from a match at the Aussie open IN 1990 (if I remember well), and a decade of terrorizing umpires. He was not suspended.
2. Kyrgios infamous words to Wawrinka led to a "suspended suspension". That was it. Certainly not as violent in the physical sense of the actions by Zverev, but that was a very low point, especially the comments about Donna.
3. Shapovalov's unfortunate hit of the umpire mean disqualification of the match, nothing more (agree, he truly looked like he did not mean to do that).
4. Novax at the USO '20. No need to dig that corpse up.

They never get suspended. It is not in the ATP's "manual" and they don't have, as the Mexican writer in one tweet above says, "los huevos" for that.

Both Shapo and Novak were unintentional. They were accidents. They both deserved their punishments, but Zverev showed much more disregard for the umpire's safety by intentionally swinging close to him more than once. He knew what he was doing. As for Kyrgios, that wasn't physical, so I think it's apples to oranges.

by ponchi101 Agree, Kyrgios incident was not physical. But my point is that that was the occasion which was the closest to a suspension, and then they suspended the suspension.
I remember we made some fun out of that at TAT1.0. (the suspended suspension, not Kyrgios behavior)
Shapo's and Novax' were clear, indeed.
Another thing that was odd. He (Zverev) went berserk over a doubles match? What was the point?

by Liamvalid Anyone remember if Pliskova was punished for attacking the umpires chair?

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 4:58 pm Agree, Kyrgios incident was not physical. But my point is that that was the occasion which was the closest to a suspension, and then they suspended the suspension.
I remember we made some fun out of that at TAT1.0. (the suspended suspension, not Kyrgios behavior)
Shapo's and Novax' were clear, indeed.
Another thing that was odd. He (Zverev) went berserk over a doubles match? What was the point?

Yeah, I actually don't know why he was so upset in the first place. I haven't read about his complaints or issue with the umpire, if he thought the ump missed calls on big points or what. Hard to understand what led to this. But ultimately irrelevant.

by dmforever

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 4:15 pm He will not be suspended. Let's remember the ATP's record on that.
1. Mac was defaulted from a match at the Aussie open IN 1990 (if I remember well), and a decade of terrorizing umpires. He was not suspended.
2. Kyrgios infamous words to Wawrinka led to a "suspended suspension". That was it. Certainly not as violent in the physical sense of the actions by Zverev, but that was a very low point, especially the comments about Donna.
3. Shapovalov's unfortunate hit of the umpire mean disqualification of the match, nothing more (agree, he truly looked like he did not mean to do that).
4. Novax at the USO '20. No need to dig that corpse up.

They never get suspended. It is not in the ATP's "manual" and they don't have, as the Mexican writer in one tweet above says, "los huevos" for that.

If they don't suspend him and he does actually physically harm someone, I wonder if the linespeople and/or chair umpire would have a case against the ATP on grounds of unsafe working conditions. Maybe they already have that case now, though I guess it would depend on Mexican law, in this case.

Kevin

by ti-amie Paulo Sousa
@pstriathlon
Replying to
@josemorgado
When he targeted the umpire's legs and not just the chair is when I realized that he 100% hit his girlfriend

by JazzNU Just FYI, the pilling down of video is not because of what happened, but who is posting it and how. I posted video of it in the other thread even though someone already posted a YT video of it for this very reason. The ATP is FANATICAL about who is allowed to post videos of their content. They have gotten to a place where they do allow people to post gifs of a lot of stuff after going scorched earth on some prolific Twitter users a few years ago that used to do it regularly, but they do not do that with video content.

It's just not how they operate. And why I posted the video from an account that is one of their partners, not a random user. If that video comes down, then you know ATP is trying to cover it up completely.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 4:15 pm He will not be suspended. Let's remember the ATP's record on that.
1. Mac was defaulted from a match at the Aussie open IN 1990 (if I remember well), and a decade of terrorizing umpires. He was not suspended.
2. Kyrgios infamous words to Wawrinka led to a "suspended suspension". That was it. Certainly not as violent in the physical sense of the actions by Zverev, but that was a very low point, especially the comments about Donna.
3. Shapovalov's unfortunate hit of the umpire mean disqualification of the match, nothing more (agree, he truly looked like he did not mean to do that).
4. Novax at the USO '20. No need to dig that corpse up.

They never get suspended. It is not in the ATP's "manual" and they don't have, as the Mexican writer in one tweet above says, "los huevos" for that.

Kyrgios was also not suspended following the incident in Rome with the default and angrily throwing a chair onto the court. Just fines, thought heavier fines than normal for this incident. It wasn't until the back to back incidents in Washington and Cincy of that year (not defaulted from either match though he should've been for both) that the ATP finally gave a very light suspension.

by skatingfan Any suspension of Zverev would have to include either Indian Wells, or Miami, so it's absolutely not going to happen.

by ti-amie You mean they won't make a decision until the tour moves to Europe for their spring clay season?

by ti-amie

by Woody

dmforever wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:15 pm
If they don't suspend him and he does actually physically harm someone, I wonder if the linespeople and/or chair umpire would have a case against the ATP on grounds of unsafe working conditions. Maybe they already have that case now, though I guess it would depend on Mexican law, in this case.

Kevin

That's an interesting question. I would guess that the linespeople have a collective contract that states their employment rights are based on U.S. law or something.

by dmforever

skatingfan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 9:50 pm Any suspension of Zverev would have to include either Indian Wells, or Miami, so it's absolutely not going to happen.

Is he a draw at all? Does anyone outside of us hard core or soft core tennis fans even know who he is, outside of maybe Germany? Maybe I'm just not very clued in.

Kevin

by skatingfan

dmforever wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:43 pm Is he a draw at all? Does anyone outside of us hard core or soft core tennis fans even know who he is, outside of maybe Germany? Maybe I'm just not very clued in.

Kevin

No, but those tournaments are too important for Zverev's season for him to miss them.

by ti-amie He is also one of the "stars" of the ATP. He's used extensively in their advertising. There was a picture of Rafa doing a presser in Acapulco in front of a photo montage of him, Stefanos, Medvedev and I believe Matteo. I don't know if I can find it now.

by dmforever

skatingfan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:47 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:43 pm Is he a draw at all? Does anyone outside of us hard core or soft core tennis fans even know who he is, outside of maybe Germany? Maybe I'm just not very clued in.

Kevin
No, but those tournaments are too important for Zverev's season for him to miss them.

Are you saying that Zverev will have some influence in how much or little they decide to punish him? Why would they (the ATP, the tournament organizers) care? I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just trying to understand what you mean.

Kevin

by ti-amie This is the start of it. Profanity is involved.

by ti-amie This is one man's opinion.

by JazzNU You guys are hilarious, yes he's a draw. And his high appearance fee being met regularly says as much to the tournaments as well.

by ti-amie

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:40 am This is one man's opinion.

For those who know of "Johnny Groove" this is him.

by skatingfan

dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:21 am Are you saying that Zverev will have some influence in how much or little they decide to punish him? Why would they (the ATP, the tournament organizers) care? I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just trying to understand what you mean.

Kevin

The ATP would rather the matter, like everything else that presents negative headlines, just went away. Zverev will get some sort of fine, and a warning, or maybe a probationary period like Kyrgios did. The ATP, and tournament organizers don't care about the players, but they also don't want the headlines as to why Zverev is not playing.

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 8:12 pm Just FYI, the pilling down of video is not because of what happened, but who is posting it and how. I posted video of it in the other thread even though someone already posted a YT video of it for this very reason. The ATP is FANATICAL about who is allowed to post videos of their content. They have gotten to a place where they do allow people to post gifs of a lot of stuff after going scorched earth on some prolific Twitter users a few years ago that used to do it regularly, but they do not do that with video content.

It's just not how they operate. And why I posted the video from an account that is one of their partners, not a random user. If that video comes down, then you know ATP is trying to cover it up completely.

This is true but there's been a running battle between fans and the ATP/WTA about fan videos. That said in this case there is a fandom that will always take the position that players other than the one they stan are being coddled and protected. Personally I think they're close to the edge but why take this particular fan video down especially when many fans have no access to or were unaware of the sites that are able to post it without repercussions. I didn't even know that there was a feed for Amazon videos until today.

That the video was pulled when it was pulled only feeds the stans. At the time the video was pulled there was no other access (to my knowledge) of a legit site where the video could be seen.

That said I think he should be suspended for at least 6 months. Will it happen? Nope.

by Owendonovan He's very good at confirming the reasons I'm not a fan of his.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:51 am
JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 8:12 pm Just FYI, the pilling down of video is not because of what happened, but who is posting it and how. I posted video of it in the other thread even though someone already posted a YT video of it for this very reason. The ATP is FANATICAL about who is allowed to post videos of their content. They have gotten to a place where they do allow people to post gifs of a lot of stuff after going scorched earth on some prolific Twitter users a few years ago that used to do it regularly, but they do not do that with video content.

It's just not how they operate. And why I posted the video from an account that is one of their partners, not a random user. If that video comes down, then you know ATP is trying to cover it up completely.
This is true but there's been a running battle between fans and the ATP/WTA about fan videos. That said in this case there is a fandom that will always take the position that players other than the one they stan are being coddled and protected. Personally I think they're close to the edge but why take this particular fan video down especially when many fans have no access to or were unaware of the sites that are able to post it without repercussions. I didn't even know that there was a feed for Amazon videos until today.

That the video was pulled when it was pulled only feeds the stans. At the time the video was pulled there was no other access (to my knowledge) of a legit site where the video could be seen.

That said I think he should be suspended for at least 6 months. Will it happen? Nope.

Why go nuclear on small-time but prolific tennis social media accounts that are helping to promote and grow your sport to the point of sending out demand letters and trying to get their accounts banned from various sites? I can't begin to tell you why the ATP has the strategy they do where gif and video content is concerned. It's always been bizarre and it still is. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I can't name another significant sports body who has taken such aggressive steps. It's one of the most counterproductive things I've seen.

by Deuce

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 5:22 pm Anyone remember if Pliskova was punished for attacking the umpires chair?

I don't think she was.
Although she took a chunk out of the chair (out of an advertizing sign on the chair, I think), it was not comparable to this Zverev incident. Pliskova's action was not threatening in nature - as I recall, it was more like her simply hitting the thing that was closest to her. She was upset with the umpire - but I think it's pretty obvious that the Zverev incident was much more dangerous and much more of a direct threat to the umpire.

by Liamvalid

Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:41 am
Liamvalid wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 5:22 pm Anyone remember if Pliskova was punished for attacking the umpires chair?
I don't think she was.
Although she took a chunk out of the chair (out of an advertizing sign on the chair, I think), it was not comparable to this Zverev incident. Pliskova's action was not threatening in nature - as I recall, it was more like her simply hitting the thing that was closest to her. She was upset with the umpire - but I think it's pretty obvious that the Zverev incident was much more dangerous and much more of a direct threat to the umpire.

Yeah I remember the actual incident. My point is that whatever punishment she received, Zverev should get worse as his actions seemed far more menacing. With Pliskova though, it was so against her character it was quite a shock to witness-but I had no surprise at all when I saw the Zverev video

by Deuce

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:48 am
Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:41 am
Liamvalid wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 5:22 pm Anyone remember if Pliskova was punished for attacking the umpires chair?
I don't think she was.
Although she took a chunk out of the chair (out of an advertizing sign on the chair, I think), it was not comparable to this Zverev incident. Pliskova's action was not threatening in nature - as I recall, it was more like her simply hitting the thing that was closest to her. She was upset with the umpire - but I think it's pretty obvious that the Zverev incident was much more dangerous and much more of a direct threat to the umpire.
Yeah I remember the actual incident. My point is that whatever punishment she received, Zverev should get worse as his actions seemed far more menacing. With Pliskova though, it was so against her character it was quite a shock to witness-but I had no surprise at all when I saw the Zverev video

I was still surprised with the Zverev incident - simply because I've never seen him do anything close to that before. He's had little arguments with umpires - like pretty much everyone else has had... but nothing approaching this incident.

McEnroe and Connors called officials all kinds of names - but I don't recall either of them ever being physical, or doing anything physically threatening, like this.
The only player I can think of who could have possibly done something like what Zverev did the other day is Nastase. And 'Nasty' has always been pretty much certifiably insane.

It wasn't 'just' the hitting the chair several times, either. Obviously, that was quite bad, dangerous, unacceptable, etc... But Zverev was also swearing at the umpire before hitting the chair - while the match was still ongoing (I think in the 'super tiebreak'). He was using 'f-bombs' all over the place, directed at the umpire before the match was finished. Over a line call.
Then, when they lost the match, he lost his mind.

by meganfernandez

dmforever wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:15 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 4:15 pm He will not be suspended. Let's remember the ATP's record on that.
1. Mac was defaulted from a match at the Aussie open IN 1990 (if I remember well), and a decade of terrorizing umpires. He was not suspended.
2. Kyrgios infamous words to Wawrinka led to a "suspended suspension". That was it. Certainly not as violent in the physical sense of the actions by Zverev, but that was a very low point, especially the comments about Donna.
3. Shapovalov's unfortunate hit of the umpire mean disqualification of the match, nothing more (agree, he truly looked like he did not mean to do that).
4. Novax at the USO '20. No need to dig that corpse up.

They never get suspended. It is not in the ATP's "manual" and they don't have, as the Mexican writer in one tweet above says, "los huevos" for that.
If they don't suspend him and he does actually physically harm someone, I wonder if the linespeople and/or chair umpire would have a case against the ATP on grounds of unsafe working conditions. Maybe they already have that case now, though I guess it would depend on Mexican law, in this case.

Kevin

Probably would have a case, but the ATP would pay the person's medical bills and offer restitution before it came to that. I don't think most people want to sue a big organization. Too much hassle and personal exposure with a low chance of winning.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:21 am
Liamvalid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:48 am
Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:41 am
I don't think she was.
Although she took a chunk out of the chair (out of an advertizing sign on the chair, I think), it was not comparable to this Zverev incident. Pliskova's action was not threatening in nature - as I recall, it was more like her simply hitting the thing that was closest to her. She was upset with the umpire - but I think it's pretty obvious that the Zverev incident was much more dangerous and much more of a direct threat to the umpire.
Yeah I remember the actual incident. My point is that whatever punishment she received, Zverev should get worse as his actions seemed far more menacing. With Pliskova though, it was so against her character it was quite a shock to witness-but I had no surprise at all when I saw the Zverev video
I was still surprised with the Zverev incident - simply because I've never seen him do anything close to that before. He's had little arguments with umpires - like pretty much everyone else has had... but nothing approaching this incident.

Yeah, and it was also bizarre given the circumstances. It makes me wonder about the full story. Did he have bad blood with one of the opponents or the umpire? Was something happening off-court besides that late-night finish? Was he pissed at the tournament for the scheduling? Nothing excuses his actions, but it was really bizarre and I wonder what happened. It was just a doubles match.

If he winds up revealing that he is struggling with mental health, I wonder if anyone will sympathize.

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 3:13 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:51 am
JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 8:12 pm Just FYI, the pilling down of video is not because of what happened, but who is posting it and how. I posted video of it in the other thread even though someone already posted a YT video of it for this very reason. The ATP is FANATICAL about who is allowed to post videos of their content. They have gotten to a place where they do allow people to post gifs of a lot of stuff after going scorched earth on some prolific Twitter users a few years ago that used to do it regularly, but they do not do that with video content.

It's just not how they operate. And why I posted the video from an account that is one of their partners, not a random user. If that video comes down, then you know ATP is trying to cover it up completely.
This is true but there's been a running battle between fans and the ATP/WTA about fan videos. That said in this case there is a fandom that will always take the position that players other than the one they stan are being coddled and protected. Personally I think they're close to the edge but why take this particular fan video down especially when many fans have no access to or were unaware of the sites that are able to post it without repercussions. I didn't even know that there was a feed for Amazon videos until today.

That the video was pulled when it was pulled only feeds the stans. At the time the video was pulled there was no other access (to my knowledge) of a legit site where the video could be seen.

That said I think he should be suspended for at least 6 months. Will it happen? Nope.

Why go nuclear on small-time but prolific tennis social media accounts that are helping to promote and grow your sport to the point of sending out demand letters and trying to get their accounts banned from various sites? I can't begin to tell you why the ATP has the strategy they do where gif and video content is concerned. It's always been bizarre and it still is. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I can't name another significant sports body who has taken such aggressive steps. It's one of the most counterproductive things I've seen.

Tennis is second only to figure skating for destroying its brand and alienating its fanbase.

by JazzNU

ATP disciplines Alexander Zverev for actions against chair umpire at Mexican Open

ACAPULCO, Mexico -- Tokyo Olympics gold medalist Alexander Zverev was fined $40,000 by the men's professional tennis tour and will forfeit more than $30,000 in prize money and all rankings points from the Mexican Open after hitting the chair umpire's stand with his racket following a loss in doubles.

In addition to those penalties, the ATP announced Thursday it would undertake "a further review of the incident."

Zverev was the 2020 US Open runner-up. He is currently ranked No. 3 and was the defending singles champion in Acapulco.

The 24-year-old German was kicked out of the tournament after yelling and cursing at official Alessandro Germani and violently striking the umpire's chair no fewer than four times.

Zverev and partner Marcelo Melo had just lost a doubles match to Lloyd Glasspool and Harri Heliovaara. Just before the match ended, Germani gave Zverev a code violation for yelling and swearing while arguing about a shot that was ruled in, setting up match point.

The ATP said Zverev was fined $20,000 each for verbal abuse and unsportsmanlike conduct, the maximum penalty for each violation.

He loses his full prize money for singles and doubles of $31,570 and all rankings points earned at the tournament.

In October, the ATP opened an investigation into a former girlfriend's allegations of domestic abuse by Zverev. The former girlfriend first made the allegations in 2020.

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... xican-open

by ti-amie I wanted to ask this question here.

Why do people think Melo should've done "more to restrain Zverev"? This is my opinion. I'm not a mental health professional.

Explosive anger like that is not something everyone/anyone can handle. I also think this is regular behavior for him and that those who know him get out of his way until he's calmed down. I wonder what his family has gone through with him too. I think Melo, used to seeing this behavior, did what any sane person would do and got out of Zverev's way.

by ti-amie BTW the fines are just about equal with his forfeited pay so for all intents and purposes he wasn't fined at all.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote:BTW the fines are just about equal with his forfeited pay so for all intents and purposes he wasn't fined at all.

I don’t follow. His fine is $40,000 on top of the $30,000 prize money he forfeits, right? Or does his $30k go toward the $40k fine?

by dmforever

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:48 am I wanted to ask this question here.

Why do people think Melo should've done "more to restrain Zverev"? This is my opinion. I'm not a mental health professional.

Explosive anger like that is not something everyone/anyone can handle. I also think this is regular behavior for him and that those who know him get out of his way until he's calmed down. I wonder what his family has gone through with him too. I think Melo, used to seeing this behavior, did what any sane person would do and got out of Zverev's way.

He wacked the chair a couple of times. Then he stopped, then went back. When he went back, Melo could have said something or maybe just put his hand on his shoulder. But you make a good point. That might have been dangerous. But if that's the case, then that speaks volumes. His own doubles partner and friend was afraid of him. Also, did any of the players say anything to the chair umpire after Zverev left the court? One of them could have waked with the umpire to make him feel better. Obviously the video doesn't show that much, so we don't know. I just felt really bad for the chair umpire. This really horrible, violent thing happens and none of the people near him do anything. There was a security guard in the video standing in the stands. He also did nothing.

Kevin

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:48 am I wanted to ask this question here.

Why do people think Melo should've done "more to restrain Zverev"? This is my opinion. I'm not a mental health professional.

Explosive anger like that is not something everyone/anyone can handle. I also think this is regular behavior for him and that those who know him get out of his way until he's calmed down. I wonder what his family has gone through with him too. I think Melo, used to seeing this behavior, did what any sane person would do and got out of Zverev's way.

I don't think it's fair at all to assume that this is 'regular behaviour' for him unless you've seen that behaviour from him... well... regularly. On what is this assumption based, then?

Granted, his former girlfriend accused him of violent behaviour - and, while those accusations seem legitimate, none of us really know because we only know what we read in the media - there is probably 90% of detail that we have no idea about. So, honestly, in lieu of actual and irrefutable evidence, it's quite unjust to say that one thinks this is 'regular behaviour' for him, and that his friend and doubles partner is accustomed to seeing this behaviour from him. I have not seen any evidence of that, and I doubt you have, either. Unless you've seen that type of behaviour from him before, this is pure speculation, and thus unfair. Starting rumours like this without evidence is not right.

I don't like Zverev. I find him arrogant and obnoxious... and the accusations by his former girlfriend certainly haven't helped my opinion of him. Neither has his behaviour the other night, obviously. So, for various reasons, I don't like him. But I do like fairness - and to say that one believes this kind of violent, out of control behaviour is 'regular' for someone without ever having witnessed it oneself is blatantly unfair.
Say what you will about what you saw of his behaviour the other day - I have no problem at all with any opinion of that particular behaviour. But speculation beyond that is simply not fair.

by skatingfan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:19 am
ti-amie wrote:BTW the fines are just about equal with his forfeited pay so for all intents and purposes he wasn't fined at all.
I don’t follow. His fine is $40,000 on top of the $30,000 prize money he forfeits, right? Or does his $30k go toward the $40k fine?

If he'd won the tournament he would have won more than 300k, so the 70k lost for the tournament seems relatively modest.

by ashkor87 I wonder if the Ukraine invasion by Russia places folks like Medevedev and Rublev in some danger of sanctions.. they earn USD and the US government is determined to starve the Russians of hard currency.. it is not inconveivable that there may be sanctions against all travel by Russians, especially when they may be earning significant dollars.. or am I speculating too much?

by skatingfan

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:24 am I wonder if the Ukraine invasion by Russia places folks like Medevedev and Rublev in some danger of sanctions.. they earn USD and the US government is determined to starve the Russians of hard currency.. it is not inconveivable that there may be sanctions against all travel by Russians, especially when they may be earning significant dollars.. or am I speculating too much?

I doubt that the US will sanction athletes - some countries have started to stop processing visas for Russians, so that could cause some issues as the year goes on - I think they should withdraw from upcoming events, but I don't think they'll be unable to compete & earn money simply because they're Russian.

by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote:
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:24 am I wonder if the Ukraine invasion by Russia places folks like Medevedev and Rublev in some danger of sanctions.. they earn USD and the US government is determined to starve the Russians of hard currency.. it is not inconveivable that there may be sanctions against all travel by Russians, especially when they may be earning significant dollars.. or am I speculating too much?
I doubt that the US will sanction athletes - some countries have started to stop processing visas for Russians, so that could cause some issues as the year goes on - I think they should withdraw from upcoming events, but I don't think they'll be unable to compete & earn money simply because they're Russian.

Nor should they be punished for being Russian. And I don’t agree with pulling tournaments from Russia in protest. It just doesn’t accomplish anything or make any important statement. It only hurts players and fans. If this goes on and the circumstances change, and if there’s danger, then maybe.

I am curious if the tournaments will have trouble operating because of the sanctions. This is way deep in the business side, but if sponsors rely on banks that can’t do business in dollars, euro or yen, then maybe it becomes an issue. I don’t know…

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:53 am
skatingfan wrote:
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:24 am I wonder if the Ukraine invasion by Russia places folks like Medevedev and Rublev in some danger of sanctions.. they earn USD and the US government is determined to starve the Russians of hard currency.. it is not inconveivable that there may be sanctions against all travel by Russians, especially when they may be earning significant dollars.. or am I speculating too much?
I doubt that the US will sanction athletes - some countries have started to stop processing visas for Russians, so that could cause some issues as the year goes on - I think they should withdraw from upcoming events, but I don't think they'll be unable to compete & earn money simply because they're Russian.
Nor should they be punished for being Russian. And I don’t agree with pulling tournaments from Russia in protest. It just doesn’t accomplish anything or make any important statement. It only hurts players and fans. If this goes on and the circumstances change, and if there’s danger, then maybe.

^ I agree that players should not be punished simply because they are Russian.

But I disagree about cancelling tournaments in Russia.
Given how so many countries have condemned Russia for this violent invasion, I would say that there is definitely danger in Russia right now for the players and others attending a tournament there who are not Russian (or who are Russian and have expressed their opposition to the invasion).
Putin doesn't play by anyone's rules but his own. If tournaments in Russia are not cancelled or moved in protest (and for reasons of safety), then there would be a very real risk of the Russian government doing something to 'protest' the presence of people from countries which have condemned Russia. This means that there could be kidnappings - or worse...
I don't see any reason to take that risk.

by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:13 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:19 am
ti-amie wrote:BTW the fines are just about equal with his forfeited pay so for all intents and purposes he wasn't fined at all.
I don’t follow. His fine is $40,000 on top of the $30,000 prize money he forfeits, right? Or does his $30k go toward the $40k fine?
If he'd won the tournament he would have won more than 300k, so the 70k lost for the tournament seems relatively modest.

Agree, the fine doesn't fit the crime, but I read that $40k was the max the ATP could fine him "on site." So there must be a rule in place that the ATP had to follow. I'm confident he will be suspended.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:17 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:53 am
skatingfan wrote:
I doubt that the US will sanction athletes - some countries have started to stop processing visas for Russians, so that could cause some issues as the year goes on - I think they should withdraw from upcoming events, but I don't think they'll be unable to compete & earn money simply because they're Russian.
Nor should they be punished for being Russian. And I don’t agree with pulling tournaments from Russia in protest. It just doesn’t accomplish anything or make any important statement. It only hurts players and fans. If this goes on and the circumstances change, and if there’s danger, then maybe.
^ I agree that players should not be punished simply because they are Russian.

But I disagree about cancelling tournaments in Russia.
Given how so many countries have condemned Russia for this violent invasion, I would say that there is definitely danger in Russia right now for the players and others attending a tournament there who are not Russian (or who are Russian and have expressed their opposition to the invasion).
Putin doesn't play by anyone's rules but his own. If tournaments in Russia are not cancelled or moved in protest (and for reasons of safety), then there would be a very real risk of the Russian government doing something to 'protest' the presence of people from countries which have condemned Russia. This means that there could be kidnappings - or worse...
I don't see any reason to take that risk.

If the tours think there's a real danger, they should cancel, as they did the Challenger this week. They'd know better than I would. I don't agree with cancelling sheerly out of protest, not at this point anyway.

by meganfernandez

by ponchi101 I doubt that, although players like Medvedev or Rublev earn their income in foreign currency, they have the bulk of it in Russian banks. I can't find it in their bios, but I believe that Medvedev (for example) lives in Monte Carlo. He must have his money parked there, so most likely he will be excluded from any possible sanction. It is not as if Monaco does not make it clear to the world it is a haven for the rich, their gains being legit (as Medvedev's) or not.
---0---
Bravo for Rublev. After his match against Hurkacz, he signed the camera with "NO WAR, PLEASE". A brave move considering he is not a citizen of a democracy. Wonder if his passport may be at risk.

by ti-amie

Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:48 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:48 am I wanted to ask this question here.

Why do people think Melo should've done "more to restrain Zverev"? This is my opinion. I'm not a mental health professional.

Explosive anger like that is not something everyone/anyone can handle. I also think this is regular behavior for him and that those who know him get out of his way until he's calmed down. I wonder what his family has gone through with him too. I think Melo, used to seeing this behavior, did what any sane person would do and got out of Zverev's way.
I don't think it's fair at all to assume that this is 'regular behaviour' for him unless you've seen that behaviour from him... well... regularly. On what is this assumption based, then?

Granted, his former girlfriend accused him of violent behaviour - and, while those accusations seem legitimate, none of us really know because we only know what we read in the media - there is probably 90% of detail that we have no idea about. So, honestly, in lieu of actual and irrefutable evidence, it's quite unjust to say that one thinks this is 'regular behaviour' for him, and that his friend and doubles partner is accustomed to seeing this behaviour from him. I have not seen any evidence of that, and I doubt you have, either. Unless you've seen that type of behaviour from him before, this is pure speculation, and thus unfair. Starting rumours like this without evidence is not right.

I don't like Zverev. I find him arrogant and obnoxious... and the accusations by his former girlfriend certainly haven't helped my opinion of him. Neither has his behaviour the other night, obviously. So, for various reasons, I don't like him. But I do like fairness - and to say that one believes this kind of violent, out of control behaviour is 'regular' for someone without ever having witnessed it oneself is blatantly unfair.
Say what you will about what you saw of his behaviour the other day - I have no problem at all with any opinion of that particular behaviour. But speculation beyond that is simply not fair.

I asked a question. I did not say that I had any inside information. Watching what happened, and the fact that none of the players even made an attempt to step to him and say "dude, no", made me wonder if this is "normal" for him. If it was an abnormal, over reaction, I think that the other men on the court would've stepped in somehow, especially when he sat down and got up to go after the chair again.

If you remember no one in tennis, player or professional journo, went against what the ex girlfriend said in a way that would exonerate him. Many said let the investigation proceed. This public display couldn't be swept under the rug.

I'm sorry if it seemed as if I was making an assumption about his temperament. However I have seen people react like this and it's not only scary but it turned out that something else was going on.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:27 pm Bravo for Rublev. After his match against Hurkacz, he signed the camera with "NO WAR, PLEASE". A brave move considering he is not a citizen of a democracy. Wonder if his passport may be at risk.

Not just his passport, but his family in Russia may be at risk, as well.
Same for Medvedev and some other Russian players, who apparently also came out with 'No war, please' statements.

Anything is possible because the Russian government is neither honest nor rational.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:52 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:48 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:48 am I wanted to ask this question here.

Why do people think Melo should've done "more to restrain Zverev"? This is my opinion. I'm not a mental health professional.

Explosive anger like that is not something everyone/anyone can handle. I also think this is regular behavior for him and that those who know him get out of his way until he's calmed down. I wonder what his family has gone through with him too. I think Melo, used to seeing this behavior, did what any sane person would do and got out of Zverev's way.
I don't think it's fair at all to assume that this is 'regular behaviour' for him unless you've seen that behaviour from him... well... regularly. On what is this assumption based, then?

Granted, his former girlfriend accused him of violent behaviour - and, while those accusations seem legitimate, none of us really know because we only know what we read in the media - there is probably 90% of detail that we have no idea about. So, honestly, in lieu of actual and irrefutable evidence, it's quite unjust to say that one thinks this is 'regular behaviour' for him, and that his friend and doubles partner is accustomed to seeing this behaviour from him. I have not seen any evidence of that, and I doubt you have, either. Unless you've seen that type of behaviour from him before, this is pure speculation, and thus unfair. Starting rumours like this without evidence is not right.

I don't like Zverev. I find him arrogant and obnoxious... and the accusations by his former girlfriend certainly haven't helped my opinion of him. Neither has his behaviour the other night, obviously. So, for various reasons, I don't like him. But I do like fairness - and to say that one believes this kind of violent, out of control behaviour is 'regular' for someone without ever having witnessed it oneself is blatantly unfair.
Say what you will about what you saw of his behaviour the other day - I have no problem at all with any opinion of that particular behaviour. But speculation beyond that is simply not fair.
I asked a question. I did not say that I had any inside information. Watching what happened, and the fact that none of the players even made an attempt to step to him and say "dude, no", made me wonder if this is "normal" for him. If it was an abnormal, over reaction, I think that the other men on the court would've stepped in somehow, especially when he sat down and got up to go after the chair again.

If you remember no one in tennis, player or professional journo, went against what the ex girlfriend said in a way that would exonerate him. Many said let the investigation proceed. This public display couldn't be swept under the rug.

I'm sorry if it seemed as if I was making an assumption about his temperament. However I have seen people react like this and it's not only scary but it turned out that something else was going on.

^ I get it, but I still feel that the way you worded it was unfair.
You wrote essentially that you think this is regular behaviour for him, and that this is probably the reason that no-one intervened - because they were afraid of this 'regularly out of control man'.
But you don't know him nearly well enough to think that he is regularly out of control, or to have an opinion about his regular behaviour, other than what you've seen.

Had you written it as, for example "Maybe that's regular behaviour for him, and that's why the others didn't intervene", I'd not have made any comment. Using the word 'Maybe' or 'Perhaps' would be better than "I think" in this circumstance - because with 'Maybe', one is just throwing a possibility out there, while 'I think' is a definite assumption which strongly suggests 'Probably' rather than 'Possibly' or 'Maybe'.
I hope you can see the difference in the way that the different wordings come across. One comes across as an accusation, while the other comes across as merely 'spitballing'; as throwing a possibility out there. I see a significant distinction between the two approaches.

I also didn't like the post which quoted someone as writing "When he targeted the umpire's legs and not just the chair is when I realized that he 100% hit his girlfriend" for the very same reason - because it's grossly unjust. Firstly, he never "targeted the umpire's legs" - if he had done so, he would have hit his legs. Secondly, whoever wrote that obviously does not "know that he 100% hit his girlfriend" based on him hitting the umpire's chair - and so to state that is wrong, because it's inaccurate. And it's thus unfair.
It is sensationalism and may be 'popular' to say/write things like that - and I'm sure it gets lots of 'likes', etc. on 'social media' - but it's wrong to do.
Obviously, people are going to link his tirade on the umpire to the accusations that he was violent with his girlfriend - which is why I posted that what he did with the umpire was quite a stupid thing to do for someone accused of assault. That's linking the two events without any accusation. But to say that one KNOWS that he hit his girlfriend is, again, pure speculation, and is inaccurate because the person obviously does not KNOW.

I don't want to come across as one who is defending violence toward women, obviously - of course I'm not, and I'm sure you understand this. I'm simply saying that one should not assume or pretend to know another person's violent character, or regular violent behaviour, if one does not know that person, or if one has at least never witnessed any recurring or regular violent behaviour from the person. Because doing so comes across as an accusation - and accusation without evidence is unfair.
Opinions and perspectives are fine - but they should be based on knowledge and facts, not on assumptions and speculations.

by ti-amie Anyone watching Tennis Channel? The in studio crew just announced that Zverev will be playing DC for Germany in Brazil and hinting that a suspension may be coming.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 1:04 am Anyone watching Tennis Channel? The in studio crew just announced that Zverev will be playing DC for Germany in Brazil and hinting that a suspension may be coming.

Not watching, but saw earlier on Twitter that it was confirmed that he'd be playing Davis Cup.

by JazzNU

by ponchi101 Pretty much, she had no option. I support her.

by dave g

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:34 am Pretty much, she had no option. I support her.

I am going to disagree. The Olympics are designed for athletes to be representing their country, which is not true of most tennis. Davis Cup and Fed Cup (or whatever they are now) might be reasonable places to bar Russian and Belarussian teams. But I don't think it is appropriate to bar individual players from normal tournaments.

by dmforever

dave g wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:10 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:34 am Pretty much, she had not option. I support her.
I am going to disagree. The Olympics are designed for athletes to be representing their country, which is not true of most tennis. Davis Cup and Fed Cup (or whatever they are now) might be reasonable places to bar Russian and Belarussian teams. But I don't think it is appropriate to bar individual players from normal tournaments.

She's not asking that Russian and Belarussian players be banned or barred. She's just asking that they only be allowed to play as "neutral athletes, without flags or national anthems." She in fact says that she doesn't blame any Russian athletes.

Kevin

by Deuce It's more of the BS of putting lipstick on a pig, though.
Don't tell anyone the Russian players are from Russia. But everyone knows where they're from.
This is just more 'ROC' or 'AOR' nonsense. As if changing the surface is significant.
Also, it would put even more of a spotlight on the fact that they're from Russia, as it would attract attention.
I don't agree with sanctioning or punishing Russian athletes - to any degree - just because their Russian. It smells too much of a 'guilt by association' philosophy, which I don't believe is right.

Also - when do they play National Anthems at tennis tournaments, anyway? Apart from the events where they play country vs. country, do any tournaments play National Anthems - even for the winner of the tournament? Not to my recollection.

by Deuce Here's an article about the Svitolina situation. Included in the article is Potapova's response to Svitolina, which I consider much more sensible than Svitolina's position.
In her response, Potapova mentions that professional athletes "are essentially becoming hostages of the current situation".
She is right, and there is no need for this to happen. It accomplishes absolutely nothing constructive.
I empathize with Svitolina - and I liked her heartfelt post about her Motherland. But she should find a more constructive outlet for her understandable anxiety and grief rather than encouraging the 'guilt by association' philosophy.

I hope that Svitolina and Potapova play their match... And that when the match is finished, no matter who wins, I hope they will give each other a long, warm embrace at the net. That would send a much more significant, much more positive, and much more powerful message than removing the reference to Russia from the bios of Russian players.

In this article, there's also a little bit about a tennis related slap (literally). This, too, shows how out of hand this is getting. (The slap involves neither Svitolina nor Potapova...)

Potapova Responds to Svitolina...

.

by mmmm8 Marta Kostyuk published a post similar to Elina's

by mmmm8 Diana Yastremska and her 15 year old sister, who were evacuated from Ukraine just a couple days ago, played doubles in Lyon today after receiving a wildcard

by ponchi101

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:47 pm Marta Kostyuk published a post similar to Elina's

Very well written and it seems, due to some syntax, that it was completely written by her (as was Svitolina's, I am not doubting that).
The recipe is simple: no tournaments in Russia (ATP/WTA) and no DC or Fed/BJK cup participation. Sounds reasonable, and almost the sole thing professional tennis can do.

by ponchi101 Pavlyuchenkova is the first Russian ATHLETE (I think) that has come out and clearly condemn the war. I also applaud Rublev's camera post, but Pavs' is unequivocal. She is only short of calling Putin by name.
Which, in Russia, might be a dangerous thing to do. I would not return there for a while, if I were her.

by dryrunguy

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 3:38 pm Pavlyuchenkova is the first Russian ATHLETE (I think) that has come out and clearly condemn the war. I also applaud Rublev's camera post, but Pavs' is unequivocal. She is only short of calling Putin by name.
Which, in Russia, might be a dangerous thing to do. I would not return there for a while, if I were her.

Except someone doesn't have to be physically in Russia for Putin's goons to get them. Poison travels quite nicely.

by ponchi101 We know. That is the reason I find her stance brave. She knows there is really nowhere to be "safe", although I would say right now he has more important matters at hand than disciplining a young woman that plays tennis.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 3:38 pm Pavlyuchenkova is the first Russian ATHLETE (I think) that has come out and clearly condemn the war. I also applaud Rublev's camera post, but Pavs' is unequivocal. She is only short of calling Putin by name.
Which, in Russia, might be a dangerous thing to do. I would not return there for a while, if I were her.

She's definitely not the first, but it might be the strongest statement. Also, she posted hers as a regular post on Twitter, not on IG Stories, which will disappear in 24 hours. It's much riskier, so I hope her family is safe, preferably not in Russia.

And I would say, though obviously, it's a strong and brave statement, it was just made yesterday, on the 28th. Don't discount other brave athletes, like Rublev, that came out days ago and helped pave the way for others to speak out. Nastia's statement was very strong, but she now has some comfort in knowing she's not alone in speaking out against this.

by JazzNU

Joint Statement by the International Governing Bodies of Tennis

The international governing bodies of tennis stand united in condemnation of Russia’s actions

A deep sense of distress, shock and sadness has been felt across the entire tennis community following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in the past week. Our thoughts are with the people of Ukraine, and we commend the many tennis players who have spoken out and taken action against this unacceptable act of aggression. We echo their calls for the violence to end and peace to return.

The safety of the tennis community is our most immediate collective priority. The focus of the WTA and ATP in particular in recent days has been on contacting current and former players, and other members of the tennis community from Ukraine and neighbouring countries, to check on their safety and offer any assistance.

The international governing bodies of tennis stand united in our condemnation of Russia’s actions and, as a result, are in agreement with the following decisions and actions:

The WTA and ATP Boards have made the decision to suspend the WTA / ATP combined event, scheduled this October in Moscow.

The ITF Board has made the decision to suspend the Russian Tennis Federation and Belarus Tennis Federation membership and to withdraw their entries from all ITF international team competition until further notice. This action follows the cancellation of all ITF tournaments in Russia and Belarus indefinitely.

At this time, players from Russia and Belarus will continue to be allowed to compete in international tennis events on Tour and at the Grand Slams. However, they will not compete under the name or flag of Russia or Belarus until further notice.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/joint-s ... march-2022

by ponchi101 Good, reasonable response.

by Deuce I agree with the measures except for the last one, which essentially states 'Let's all close our eyes and pretend that Russian players are not from Russia and Belarusian players are not from Belarus. If we close our eyes tight enough, then those two countries will just magically disappear.'
Putin is surely delusional - but refusing to allow Russian and Belarusian athletes to indicate where they are from, and believing that this somehow fixes something to any degree, is also delusional.

We should look at the larger issue here - the implications of a measure like this...
I truly cannot see any point in removing the little country 'flags' next to their names and pretending that they are not what and who they are. What, exactly, does this accomplish - other than promoting the philosophy of guilt by association, which is not a good thing? Can anyone tell me anything positive or practical that this actually accomplishes?

I can understand banning Russia from team competitions where it's country vs. country.
But to punish to any degree individual athletes in any sport is wrong. And not allowing them to identify themselves as Russian or Belarusian is punishing them to a degree. What did they do to deserve this? Apparently, they entered the world in the 'wrong' place.
Saying or otherwise indicating that certain players are from Russia, or Belarus, does absolutely no harm!

If banning the country identification of Russians and Belarusians were done to protect the Russian and Belarusian athletes from crazy people who might target them by doing something harmful or dangerous to them, then it would have a practical and positive purpose. But it is not being done for that reason.

It's the same complete BS as the IOC calling the Russian team 'OAR' or 'ROC'. As if changing the mere surface accomplishes something!

We are taught from kindergarten to not judge a book by its cover... yet here are these major organizations and federations doing exactly that - they are saying that there is something gravely wrong with the book, but if we just remove or change the book's cover, that somehow makes everything ok.

People today are obsessed with only the surface of things, it seems. They believe that changing the surface also changes the substance. And it's as mind boggling as it is sad.

by skatingfan Symbols matter, if they didn't the flags would not have been there in the first place so removing the flags of Russia, and Belarus is a symbolic gesture in support of Ukraine. If anything it's more of an argument for removing the representation of nationalism from individual tennis tournaments. It's one thing for team events to be played under the national flag, particularly Davis/BJK Cup because those teams are organized by national federations, but the regular tour events don't need to have those symbols for any of the players. If people want to know where a player is from they can look it up.

As for barring players from Russia & Belarus from participating in sports in general I think it depends on the nature of the sport. In professional team sports like hockey, or football, the player is not representing a country they are playing for the team with which they have signed contracts. In golf, or tennis I would say it's similar in that the athletes are playing for themselves not their country. It's different with sports where the national governing body, which will be very connected to the government in Russia, is selecting athletes to compete. The athletes really are representing their country in those competitions so it seems appropriate at this time it suspend the participation of both Russia, and Belarus.

by mmmm8

skatingfan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:05 am Symbols matter, if they didn't the flags would not have been there in the first place so removing the flags of Russia, and Belarus is a symbolic gesture in support of Ukraine. If anything it's more of an argument for removing the representation of nationalism from individual tennis tournaments. It's one thing for team events to be played under the national flag, particularly Davis/BJK Cup because those teams are organized by national federations, but the regular tour events don't need to have those symbols for any of the players. If people want to know where a player is from they can look it up.

As for barring players from Russia & Belarus from participating in sports in general I think it depends on the nature of the sport. In professional team sports like hockey, or football, the player is not representing a country they are playing for the team with which they have signed contracts. In golf, or tennis I would say it's similar in that the athletes are playing for themselves not their country. It's different with sports where the national governing body, which will be very connected to the government in Russia, is selecting athletes to compete. The athletes really are representing their country in those competitions so it seems appropriate at this time it suspend the participation of both Russia, and Belarus.

I agree with you in theory, but in reality that means punishing athletes in one sport and not in another, which is also unfair.

I don't know if there is a right answer for me in all this.

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:10 pm
skatingfan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:05 am Symbols matter, if they didn't the flags would not have been there in the first place so removing the flags of Russia, and Belarus is a symbolic gesture in support of Ukraine. If anything it's more of an argument for removing the representation of nationalism from individual tennis tournaments. It's one thing for team events to be played under the national flag, particularly Davis/BJK Cup because those teams are organized by national federations, but the regular tour events don't need to have those symbols for any of the players. If people want to know where a player is from they can look it up.

As for barring players from Russia & Belarus from participating in sports in general I think it depends on the nature of the sport. In professional team sports like hockey, or football, the player is not representing a country they are playing for the team with which they have signed contracts. In golf, or tennis I would say it's similar in that the athletes are playing for themselves not their country. It's different with sports where the national governing body, which will be very connected to the government in Russia, is selecting athletes to compete. The athletes really are representing their country in those competitions so it seems appropriate at this time it suspend the participation of both Russia, and Belarus.
I agree with you in theory, but in reality that means punishing athletes in one sport and not in another, which is also unfair.

I don't know if there is a right answer for me in all this.

For me, there's no right answer. This is largely emotional, I think, which is totally understandable. I can't relate to those emotions, so I'm not even trying to land somewhere. Just observing. I support them all. I'm just glad I'm not the one forced to make the call.

by ptmcmahon That was my thoughts too. It's easy for those of us in say North America to say "well that shouldn't matter" - but how can any of us really judge? We haven't experienced this, so we don't know what it feels like. If removing the country name/flag from the player's tournament entry mentally helps these players (especially ones who actually had to leave Ukraine) who are we to say that isn't "fixing" anything? We can't fairly judge that for them. We haven't walked a mile in their shoes.

by ti-amie I have always had a problem with tennis comms, instead of just calling Player X by her/his name instead go " the Spaniard" or "the Serbian" or "the American". Call the player by the name they're using seems to be a better way to do things.

by ti-amie Tennis gets no respect.

by ti-amie Super fan @Lawanda has posted her phot album from last years Indian Wells. She's one of the great folks on Tennis Twitter

by dmforever

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:04 pm Super fan @Lawanda has posted her phot album from last years Indian Wells. She's one of the great folks on Tennis Twitter

Dang, is there anyone she didn't get? That lifted my spirits for a second in this really horrible time. A big thanks for the post.

Kevin

by Deuce

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:14 pm That was my thoughts too. It's easy for those of us in say North America to say "well that shouldn't matter" - but how can any of us really judge? We haven't experienced this, so we don't know what it feels like. If removing the country name/flag from the player's tournament entry mentally helps these players (especially ones who actually had to leave Ukraine) who are we to say that isn't "fixing" anything? We can't fairly judge that for them. We haven't walked a mile in their shoes.

What about those players for whom all indications of nationality are removed? Are we to completely discount their feelings?
By removing all indications of their nationality, the implication - rather clearly - is that the Russian and Belarusian athletes are guilty by association. Do you think that makes them feel wonderful? Do you even care how THEY feel?
Two wrongs don't make a right. There are better ways to address this issue than to superficially attempt to deny innocent people the right to subtly indicate their nationality.

Please don't paint it as my ignoring the emotions of Ukranian people. As I mentioned previously - in numerous posts - I very much empathise with Ukrainian people - what they are going through is terrible. But I maintain that an entirely superficial action like removing all traces of national identity from players of certain countries does nothing to truly help anyone. It is just like the IOC calling the Russian teams 'ROC' or 'OAR' - as if that fixes the fact that the Russians have been caught cheating numerous times.

Superficial actions like this is the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig. It does absolutely nothing to fix the problem. And, in the case of removing the national identity of individual athletes, it does harm - as these innocent athletes from Russia and Belarus have done nothing to deserve this.

by ponchi101

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:14 pm That was my thoughts too. It's easy for those of us in say North America to say "well that shouldn't matter" - but how can any of us really judge? We haven't experienced this, so we don't know what it feels like. If removing the country name/flag from the player's tournament entry mentally helps these players (especially ones who actually had to leave Ukraine) who are we to say that isn't "fixing" anything? We can't fairly judge that for them. We haven't walked a mile in their shoes.

Only thing I will disagree is that we are not judging, we are giving opinions, and thoughtful ones. If we had to walk in their shoes before we could give opinions, there would be only two members in this forum that could give opinions.
I appreciate all the opinions here, precisely because they are exercises in what theoretically should or could be done. And I believe that this forum is smart enough, collectively and individually, to provide insight into what is happening, at many levels.

by dmforever

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:22 pm Tennis gets no respect.

I think in the case of Serena it's more than just a lack of respect. Elena Svitolina and Vika are not household names. Serena is probably the most famous female athlete in the world. (Please correct me if that's wrong.) I went to a Zoom book reading once and the author was going to be interviewed by a Black woman. In the promo stuff, they used the wrong woman's picture for the interviewer. She didn't do the interview, and the author called out the people who were putting on the talk. I'm not shocked by Fox News. I am shocked by the NYT, though I guess I shouldn't be.

Kevin

by ptmcmahon

Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:15 am Superficial actions like this is the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig. It does absolutely nothing to fix the problem. And, in the case of removing the national identity of individual athletes, it does harm - as these innocent athletes from Russia and Belarus have done nothing to deserve this.

If a Ukranian player facing a Russian opponent is mentally comforted by not having to see the Russian flag on the scoreboard, announced, etc... then it's not lipstick on a pig. It's a compassionate action.

If it was just lipstick on a pig, then why would it be harming Russian/Belarussian athletes? You can't say doing this WON'T mentally help Ukranians while also saying it WILL mentally harm the Russians.

They aren't "fixing" a problem, they are trying to find some sort of compromise where they punish the innocent athletes as little as possible while supporting the Ukranian athletes.

by Deuce

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:22 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:15 am Superficial actions like this is the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig. It does absolutely nothing to fix the problem. And, in the case of removing the national identity of individual athletes, it does harm - as these innocent athletes from Russia and Belarus have done nothing to deserve this.
If a Ukranian player facing a Russian opponent is mentally comforted by not having to see the Russian flag on the scoreboard, announced, etc... then it's not lipstick on a pig. It's a compassionate action.

If it was just lipstick on a pig, then why would it be harming Russian/Belarussian athletes? You can't say doing this WON'T mentally help Ukranians while also saying it WILL mentally harm the Russians.

They aren't "fixing" a problem, they are trying to find some sort of compromise where they punish the innocent athletes as little as possible while supporting the Ukranian athletes.

Why should innocent athletes be harmed or punished at all? Just to appease Ukranian athletes? And who is to say that these innocent athletes are harmed "as little as possible"? Maybe removing their identity harms them a great deal.

If someone demands that you put lipstick on a pig because they don't like the smell of pigs, and you go and steal lipstick from an innocent person to put on the pig, what have you truly accomplished?
The original problem is still there, because the lipstick does nothing to mask the smell of the pig, PLUS you've created another victim by stealing the lipstick from an innocent person.
That's what is happening here.
Whether the national identities of Russians and Belarusians is removed or not changes absolutely nothing that is occurring in Ukraine. How does this remedy anything? It only adds to the number of victims who feel bad.

Removing the national identities of players from certain countries is entirely irrelevant to what is happening in Ukraine right now, regardless of what players like Svitolina say. She is trying to find some sort of convenient scapegoat. It's her way of feeling that she's 'doing something' to help the situation. But all she's really doing by this demand is adding to the misery - because now Russian and Belarusian players feel like crap, too. Therefore, it is both unreasonable and very unfair for Ukrainians to demand (as Svitolina did) that innocent athletes be punished just so they can feel a little better. I empathise with her - and with all Ukrainians - but she is being very selfish here. Better, more concrete, more relevant, and more profound ways should be found to make Ukrainians feel better - ways that do not punish innocent people for simply being born in a certain part of the world.

It's also a form of unfair prejudice against certain people simply because they were born in a certain country. Why is this suddenly acceptable??

Where does it stop? Can a Ukrainian player demand that his/her opponent not wear clothing in the colours of Russia because it makes them feel bad to see those colours? Can they demand that all Russian players change their names to 'Smith'? Can a given player demand that another player be removed from the draw because the two players previously had a heated argument and player 'A' would feel better if player 'B' were removed? Should an individual have the right to demand that a media outlet not mention the word 'Russia' orally or in writing because the word traumatizes him/her?
This should not be about appeasing any individual - especially if it means harming another in order to appease them.

You cannot punish an innocent person simply to appease another - because that is both unreasonable and grossly unfair. You cannot target specific players - who are completely innocent and who have done nothing wrong - in order to make another player feel better. Doing so is the definition of trying to make 2 wrongs make a right. It is also very much employing the philosophy of guilt by association, which is inherently wrong and unfair. If your brother robs a bank, should YOU be punished for the crime? This is what guilt by association is, and why it's inherently unjust and wrong.

My point is that by taking this action, innocent athletes are harmed. BY THE ACTION which targets them specifically, though they've done absolutely nothing wrong. The Ukrainian players will still feel horrible because of what is happening in their country. So instead of having only the Ukrainian players feel bad, you also have the Russian and Belarusian players feeling bad because the indication of their national identity has been forcibly removed from them without their consent. So you have the original victims of what is occurring in Ukraine, and you've ADDED MORE VICTIMS by removing the national identities of innocent people. Bravo.

Find better, more fair, more relevant, more profound, more constructive, more concrete, more effective ways to ease a person's suffering - ways which do not involve punishing completely innocent people.

.

by ptmcmahon I guess the only way to know for sure is to hear from the players themselves. It sure seems like Pavlyuchenkova would have no problem with the removal of any mention of her country in matches for example. I'm guessing most other Russians would feel the same, even if they (perhaps wisely) wouldn't speak out and admit it.

it's definitely not the perfect solution no...but there isn't any perfect solution that will make anyone happy. This seems to be the best overall compromise - but nothing is going to make everyone from both sides happy. In this case, err on the side of being nicer to the players from the country being invaded.

by ashkor87 now Djokovic is cleared to play RG and Wimbledon, exactly as foreseen.. now wait for the other shoe to drop - the US will soon open up too, and Djokovic is back in business (ok, except for the Sunshine double)

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 6:47 am now Djokovic is cleared to play RG and Wimbledon, exactly as foreseen.. now wait for the other shoe to drop - the US will soon open up too, and Djokovic is back in business (ok, except for the Sunshine double)

Indeed, you said it. Give it some time and no vaccine mandates anywhere.
C'est la vie.

by JazzNU I haven't seen anything reputable indicating it's a done deal. The word "could" is being used, not "will." People are doing a victory lap like the Australian Open wasn't a month and a half ago when the virus was at a much different point, but everyone is positive that in 2.5 months things will be exactly as they are now? I hope things keep improving, but we've all made assumptions about how this virus will go and rarely been correct. The more reputable sources are using terms that are not guarantees for a reason.

by Suliso Mladenovic and Garcia are still in the usual prime years, but their top 10 days seem as far in the past as dinosaurs...

by ponchi101 I felt that Kiki would be a member of the top 10 for a long time. A total miss.

by ashkor87 On conduct on and off the field..

Of course, many of us (not me as much as others on this forum) are very concerned about the conduct of players off the court, and it influences the way they think about them - which is natural enough, after all, tennis players are human.
But today, I was musing on the death of the great Shane Warne, Australia's cricket legend.. he was a typical 'bad boy' - drinking and womanizing end so on.. because of that, they never made him captain of Australia. Yet almost anyone who knows cricket will vouch for the fact that he was the best captain they have ever seen.. if Australia had focused on his on-the-field abilities, instead of worrying about he did off it, they, and the cricket world, would have benefited from his captaincy, and many young bowlers would have benefited from his mentoring.. the loss to cricket is immense

by JazzNU Kristie Ahn is retiring. This note really captures her personality and why so many players will miss her on tour.

by Deuce

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:59 am On conduct on and off the field..

Of course, many of us (not me as much as others on this forum) are very concerned about the conduct of players off the court, and it influences the way they think about them - which is natural enough, after all, tennis players are human.
But today, I was musing on the death of the great Shane Warne, Australia's cricket legend.. he was a typical 'bad boy' - drinking and womanizing end so on.. because of that, they never made him captain of Australia. Yet almost anyone who knows cricket will vouch for the fact that he was the best captain they have ever seen.. if Australia had focused on his on-the-field abilities, instead of worrying about he did off it, they, and the cricket world, would have benefited from his captaincy, and many young bowlers would have benefited from his mentoring.. the loss to cricket is immense

^ I admittedly have no idea who Shane Warne was (cricket is obviously not very popular in North America). I've just read one article about him - died at age 52 of a heart attack. Sounds like a character similar to race driver James Hunt, who had a similar lifestyle and who also died young (45) of a heart attack (he died in the town of Wimbledon - so there's the required tennis link).

Based on your post, I would say that they were correct to not make Warne the captain. Because that would have sent the message to impressionable kids that his off the field behaviour was fine - that you could be out of control, disrespectful to women, etc., and as long as you were a good cricket player, none of that matters, because we will assess a person based on his ability to play a game, and not on his ability to live life decently and respectfully.
That is absolutely the message that kids would receive if someone like him were rewarded with a captaincy.

As well, to me, being a captain involves far more than one's ability to play the game (in any sport). Being a captain is to be a leader on and off the field. I'm not sure that I'd want Warne to lead the team's players straight to the local bars after every game, and to sleep with 'x' number of women per week.
The team captain is also the representative of the team to the public. I wouldn't want a person in that role whose behaviour out among the public is any degree of bad.

One can be a leader on the field, and even in the locker room in matters related to the game, without having been named captain. No-one was stopping him from doing that.
But, in terms of the principles I would want the captain of the team to have, from your description of Warne, he would be far from my choice, for the reasons I've stated.

by ponchi101

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 4:38 am Kristie Ahn is retiring. This note really captures her personality and why so many players will miss her on tour.

Pretty sure I never saw her play because, you know, tennis coverage in L. America.
But that was obviously written by her, not a PR person, and it was an honest farewell. Let's wish her a life full of success.

by ti-amie

by Suliso Why is Gauff excluded from this conversasion? Same generation I'd say.

by skatingfan

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 2:51 am Why is Gauff excluded from this conversasion? Same generation I'd say.

I think because Gauff wasn't in the juniors that long to have played these other players that much.

by ti-amie

It's the Daily Fail so...

by ti-amie

by texasniteowl well, well, well...

8 weeks! Is that from today or from the date of the incident?

Either way, that is bye bye Indian Wells, Miami, Monte Carlo, & Barcelona, right?

by texasniteowl Hmm...on the ATP website it says:

As a result, Zverev has been issued an additional fine of US$25,000 and a suspension for a period of eight weeks from any ATP-sanctioned event. However, the fine and suspension are withheld on the condition that, over a probation period ending 22 February 2023 (one year from the incident), the player does not incur a further Code Violation that results in a fine for:

Unsportsmanlike Conduct based upon an act, such as disrespectful or aggressive behaviour directed towards an official, opponent, spectator, or other person during or upon conclusion of a match
Verbal or Physical Abuse of an official, opponent, spectator, or any other person while on-court or on-site

If the conditions are met, the penalties will be formally dismissed following the completion of the probation period. If the conditions are not met, the penalties will be invoked after any appeal process is exhausted.

So...if I understand correctly, he's not really suspended after all if he can keep his temper under wraps.

by dmforever

texasniteowl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:44 am Hmm...on the ATP website it says:

As a result, Zverev has been issued an additional fine of US$25,000 and a suspension for a period of eight weeks from any ATP-sanctioned event. However, the fine and suspension are withheld on the condition that, over a probation period ending 22 February 2023 (one year from the incident), the player does not incur a further Code Violation that results in a fine for:

Unsportsmanlike Conduct based upon an act, such as disrespectful or aggressive behaviour directed towards an official, opponent, spectator, or other person during or upon conclusion of a match
Verbal or Physical Abuse of an official, opponent, spectator, or any other person while on-court or on-site

If the conditions are met, the penalties will be formally dismissed following the completion of the probation period. If the conditions are not met, the penalties will be invoked after any appeal process is exhausted.
So...if I understand correctly, he's not really suspended after all if he can keep his temper under wraps.

"Ooooooch. That part of my wrist is really sensitive." , said Sasha Zverev.

Kevin

by skatingfan

texasniteowl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:44 am So...if I understand correctly, he's not really suspended after all if he can keep his temper under wraps.

So just like the Kyrios suspension from a few years ago - I knew they wouldn't do anything.

by ponchi101 Exactly. When they let Kyrgios get away with his "Donna Comment" with the suspended suspension, they set down a precedent.
So now this. I hope he is honest enough (and his PR people smart enough) and accepts that this is "reasonable", and say so publicly.

by Deuce "As a result, Zverev has been issued an additional fine of US$25,000 and a suspension for a period of eight weeks from any ATP-sanctioned event."
The remainder of their text shows the above to be blatantly untrue. He has not been suspended at all. He has been merely threatened with a possible suspension. There's a significant difference between being suspended and being threatened with a possible suspension.

How do they get away with this garbage?

.

by meganfernandez

So...if I understand correctly, he's not really suspended after all if he can keep his temper under wraps.

Deuce wrote:"As a result, Zverev has been issued an additional fine of US$25,000 and a suspension for a period of eight weeks from any ATP-sanctioned event."
The remainder of their text shows the above to be blatantly untrue. He has not been suspended at all. He has been merely threatened with a possible suspension.

Yes, he is on probation for a year. It's a joke. Everyone should let the ATP know how they feel about it. What are the odds that he keeps his cool for a whole year? I think there's a great chance he could end up suspended. Especially if the umpires have it out for him. The next time he forgets to say "good morning" - unsportsmanlike conduct.

by meganfernandez https://www.itftennis.com/en/news-and-m ... islavskyi/

Article on the world's oldest tennis player, 97-year-old Leonid Stanislavskyi, who lives in Ukraine (Kharkiv) and won't evacuate. He lived through WW2. Sorry if it was posted elsewhere.

by dmforever I saw a video from his recent DC match in Brazil. Apparently people were chanting the name of his former girlfriend who made the accusations of domestic abuse against him as a way to get under his skin. In the press conference, he said that it hurt him because it wasn't right for them to bring people HE LOVES into it. That comment just turned my stomach.
https://www.the-sun.com/sport/4835330/z ... davis-cup/

Kevin

by meganfernandez Guessing this was announced earlier and they gave her the trophy this week for WTA Coach of the Year.

by ti-amie

dmforever wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:35 pm I saw a video from his recent DC match in Brazil. Apparently people were chanting the name of his former girlfriend who made the accusations of domestic abuse against him as a way to get under his skin. In the press conference, he said that it hurt him because it wasn't right for them to bring people HE LOVES into it. That comment just turned my stomach.
https://www.the-sun.com/sport/4835330/z ... davis-cup/

Kevin

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:44 am ...

Yes, he is on probation for a year. It's a joke. Everyone should let the ATP know how they feel about it. What are the odds that he keeps his cool for a whole year? I think there's a great chance he could end up suspended. Especially if the umpires have it out for him. The next time he forgets to say "good morning" - unsportsmanlike conduct.

The precedent was set with the Kyrgios issue years ago. You do something terrible on court and you get the suspended suspension.
And we thought that Kyrgios would not be able to remain quiet for 6 months, but he did. I don't think Zverev is THAT dumb to violate this probation

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:30 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:44 am ...

Yes, he is on probation for a year. It's a joke. Everyone should let the ATP know how they feel about it. What are the odds that he keeps his cool for a whole year? I think there's a great chance he could end up suspended. Especially if the umpires have it out for him. The next time he forgets to say "good morning" - unsportsmanlike conduct.
The precedent was set with the Kyrgios issue years ago. You do something terrible on court and you get the suspended suspension.
And we thought that Kyrgios would not be able to remain quiet for 6 months, but he did. I don't think Zverev is THAT dumb to violate this probation

He'll have to keep his temper under control in the heat of the moment... we'll see.

by ti-amie

He should have been suspended when the incident happened.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote:

He should have been suspended when the incident happened.

There are rules for what can be done on site. Then there’s probably a discipline committee that reviews incidents afterward.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ponchi101 He does not get to set his own penalty. They gave him this, and at least, he is not pretending that it was somebody else's fault (Nalbandian at Queens).
Ok, sure he should have been suspended for at least IW/MIA. But he is saying the right things.
(And yes, even if it is his PR firm saying it. When they say the wrong thing, we "know" it came from them. When they say the "right" thing, it was their agents. That way, players can't win).

by ponchi101 On a good note (for me). Both the ATP and WTA have added ribbons to their website logos with the Ukrainian flag's colors.
NBA, NFL, NHL or MLB don't have anything (not that they should).

tennis

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:43 am On a good note (for me). Both the ATP and WTA have added ribbons to their website logos with the Ukrainian flag's colors.
NBA, NFL, NHL or MLB don't have anything (not that they should).
tennis

I mean, I doubt the 5-10 NFL and MLB fans in Ukraine have these leagues' response as top of mind at the moment

The NBA and NHL would be more meaningful since they have Ukrainian players.

But at some point, putting a Ukrainian flag next to your logo is just virtue signaling. I'd like to know what they are doing to raise funds or volunteers for the war in Ukraine but also other ongoing humanitarian crises.

by ti-amie

Had anyone here noticed he's been boycotting France?

by meganfernandez No, and I had forgotten about the bad call against Shapo in 2020. Maybe a French fan or Canadian would have noticed.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:06 pm Had anyone here noticed he's been boycotting France?

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:08 am No, and I had forgotten about the bad call against Shapo in 2020. Maybe a French fan or Canadian would have noticed.

Not this Canadian.

by ponchi101 For a player with a one handed BH that is indeed quite elegant, he just simply does not register in my book.
He can boycott the whole season and I won't notice.

by meganfernandez All Grand Slams will play a 10-point tiebreak in the final set starting with this year’s French Open.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by Liamvalid

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:03 am All Grand Slams will play a 10-point tiebreak in the final set starting with this year’s French Open.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is that at 6-6 do you know, or will it vary?

by meganfernandez

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:52 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:03 am All Grand Slams will play a 10-point tiebreak in the final set starting with this year’s French Open.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Is that at 6-6 do you know, or will it vary?

At 6-6. Good question.

Haha on this photo selection. And the accidental decapitation crop that puts the focus on Mahut looking pissed.

by ponchi101 Sounds like a fair solution to me.

by dmforever I agree that it's fair, but I have to say that I liked it when each Slam was different in that respect.

Kevin

by meganfernandez

dmforever wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:47 pm I agree that it's fair, but I have to say that I liked it when each Slam was different in that respect.

Kevin

I hated it! It was so arbitrary. Same sports, same scoring rules.

by Deuce No... it's good for the tournaments to have some individual identity. Different criteria may also mean that not always the same players are advantaged.

I don't like the new trial rule. Pointing to Isner - Mahut as a reason to alter things is foolish, because that's a once in a lifetime occurrence.
Tiebreaks are too much like shootouts in hockey and penalty kicks in soccer - it's a major deviation from the game scoring system for the sole purpose of expediency and saving time.

But if they're determined to go the tiebreak route, I would suggest a 10 point tiebreak where one must win by 4 points, and not just 2 points. This would help to minimize the element of luck, and make the winner earn and merit the victory more.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:32 pm No... it's good for the tournaments to have some individual identity. Different criteria may also mean that not always the same players are advantaged.

I don't like the new trial rule. Pointing to Isner - Mahut as a reason to alter things is foolish, because that's a once in a lifetime occurrence.
Tiebreaks are too much like shootouts in hockey and penalty kicks in soccer - it's a major deviation from the game scoring system for the sole purpose of expediency and saving time.

But if they're determined to go the tiebreak route, I would suggest a 10 point tiebreak where one must win by 4 points, and not just 2 points. This would help to minimize the element of luck, and make the winner earn and merit the victory more.

Scoring is not an identity factor. It's tied to the sport, wherever it's played. The tournaments can differentiate themselves in other ways, like surface, for starters. One scoring system per sport. I'm all for tiebreaks. Same scoring system, writ small. Only one point = a break, but also a break back.

by patrick

dmforever wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:47 pm I agree that it's fair, but I have to say that I liked it when each Slam was different in that respect.

Kevin

Agreed.

I like the following:
AO - 10 point TB at 6-all
FO - Win by 2 games
Wimby - Standard TB at 12-all
USO - Standard TB at 6-all

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:39 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:32 pm No... it's good for the tournaments to have some individual identity. Different criteria may also mean that not always the same players are advantaged.

I don't like the new trial rule. Pointing to Isner - Mahut as a reason to alter things is foolish, because that's a once in a lifetime occurrence.
Tiebreaks are too much like shootouts in hockey and penalty kicks in soccer - it's a major deviation from the game scoring system for the sole purpose of expediency and saving time.

But if they're determined to go the tiebreak route, I would suggest a 10 point tiebreak where one must win by 4 points, and not just 2 points. This would help to minimize the element of luck, and make the winner earn and merit the victory more.
Scoring is not an identity factor. It's tied to the sport, wherever it's played. The tournaments can differentiate themselves in other ways, like surface, for starters. One scoring system per sport. I'm all for tiebreaks. Same scoring system, writ small. Only one point = a break, but also a break back.

Why should surfaces be different, then? Same sport, same rules completely - no?
In hockey, the surface is always the same. In soccer, American football, and baseball, there are only 2 surfaces...

I maintain that I liked the different ways that the majors handled the final set. It helped to give each a unique identity, and advantaged different players. Diversity is good.

With this 'trial' move, I have to wonder how long it will be - in this age of short attention spans - before they decide to play ONLY a tiebreak instead of the final set at all tournaments (not just at Majors). Like they do in doubles now.
Oh - and no-ad scoring, too, of course.
Hell - let's just forget the tennis altogether, and simply flip a coin to determine the winner. Players could still come out in their tennis clothing, with their racquets - to perpetuate the illusion - but a coin flip would be so much more convenient!

When the new no-ad scoring and 3rd set tiebreak came into effect for doubles (playing only a tiebreak instead of a 3rd set), I asked many of the doubles players what they thought of it. All of them said they hated it.
Gayle Bradshaw (head ATP supervisor at the time) told me that it "will be great, because it will bring in the top players like Federer and Nadal, etc. - they're going to play doubles regularly with these new rules."
He was right - the top players did play more doubles after these rules came in. But they only played more doubles for about 5 months, then stopped. It seems they were brought into doubles just to help sell/justify the new system.
Sigh...

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:51 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:39 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:32 pm No... it's good for the tournaments to have some individual identity. Different criteria may also mean that not always the same players are advantaged.

I don't like the new trial rule. Pointing to Isner - Mahut as a reason to alter things is foolish, because that's a once in a lifetime occurrence.
Tiebreaks are too much like shootouts in hockey and penalty kicks in soccer - it's a major deviation from the game scoring system for the sole purpose of expediency and saving time.

But if they're determined to go the tiebreak route, I would suggest a 10 point tiebreak where one must win by 4 points, and not just 2 points. This would help to minimize the element of luck, and make the winner earn and merit the victory more.
Scoring is not an identity factor. It's tied to the sport, wherever it's played. The tournaments can differentiate themselves in other ways, like surface, for starters. One scoring system per sport. I'm all for tiebreaks. Same scoring system, writ small. Only one point = a break, but also a break back.
Why should surfaces be different, then? Same sport, same rules completely - no?
In hockey, the surface is always the same. In soccer, American football, and baseball, there are only 2 surfaces...

I maintain that I liked the different ways that the majors handled tiebreaks. It helped to give each a unique identity, and advantaged different players. Diversity is good.

With this 'trial' move, I have to wonder how long it will be - in this age of short attention spans - before they decide to play ONLY a tiebreak instead of the final set at all tournaments (not just at Majors). Like they do in doubles now.
Oh - and no-ad scoring, too, of course.
Hell - let's just forget the tennis altogether, and simply flip a coin to determine the winner. Players could still come out in their tennis clothing, with their racquets - to perpetuate the illusion - but a coin flip would be so much more convenient!

When the new no-ad scoring and 3rd set tiebreak came into effect for doubles (playing only a tiebreak instead of a 3rd set), I asked many of the doubles players what they thought of it. All of them said they hated it.
Gayle Bradshaw (head ATP supervisor at the time) told me that it "will be great, because it will bring in the top players like Federer and Nadal, etc. - they're going to play doubles regularly with these new rules."
He was right - the top players did play more doubles after these rules came in. But they only played more doubles for about 5 months, then stopped. It seems they were brought into doubles just to help sell/justify the new system.
Sigh...

Conditions like surface and indoors/outdoors can be variable. But not the scoring system, not the court dimensions - the basic, fundamental architecture of the sport should be consistent, especially among the signature events. That's how I feel. I can see how others would feel differently. Also, the slight difference caused a giant amount of confusion. I'm pragmatic and it seemed so silly, an arbitrary, easily avoidable mess that provided no value. Even some players didn't know the rule from Slam to Slam - they had to ask during the match.

I'm ambivalent to the 10-point tiebreak and no-ad in doubles, but I can see why players don't like. As a fan, I guess I prefer the breaker. There's plenty of tennis to watch.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:09 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:51 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:39 pm

Scoring is not an identity factor. It's tied to the sport, wherever it's played. The tournaments can differentiate themselves in other ways, like surface, for starters. One scoring system per sport. I'm all for tiebreaks. Same scoring system, writ small. Only one point = a break, but also a break back.
Why should surfaces be different, then? Same sport, same rules completely - no?
In hockey, the surface is always the same. In soccer, American football, and baseball, there are only 2 surfaces...

I maintain that I liked the different ways that the majors handled tiebreaks. It helped to give each a unique identity, and advantaged different players. Diversity is good.

With this 'trial' move, I have to wonder how long it will be - in this age of short attention spans - before they decide to play ONLY a tiebreak instead of the final set at all tournaments (not just at Majors). Like they do in doubles now.
Oh - and no-ad scoring, too, of course.
Hell - let's just forget the tennis altogether, and simply flip a coin to determine the winner. Players could still come out in their tennis clothing, with their racquets - to perpetuate the illusion - but a coin flip would be so much more convenient!

When the new no-ad scoring and 3rd set tiebreak came into effect for doubles (playing only a tiebreak instead of a 3rd set), I asked many of the doubles players what they thought of it. All of them said they hated it.
Gayle Bradshaw (head ATP supervisor at the time) told me that it "will be great, because it will bring in the top players like Federer and Nadal, etc. - they're going to play doubles regularly with these new rules."
He was right - the top players did play more doubles after these rules came in. But they only played more doubles for about 5 months, then stopped. It seems they were brought into doubles just to help sell/justify the new system.
Sigh...
Conditions can surface and indoors/outdoors can be variable. But not the scoring system, not the court dimensions - the architecture of the sport. It was a tiny difference that caused a giant amount of confusion, which was my big problem with it. I'm pragmatic and it seemed so silly, providing almost no value. Even some players didn't know the rule from Slam to Slam. Seemed very silly to me for almost no value.

I'm ambivalent to the 10-point tiebreak and no-ad in doubles, but I can see why players don't like. As a fan, I guess I prefer the breaker. There's plenty of tennis to watch.

Many baseball stadiums have very different dimensions... What is a home run in one is a simply fly-out in another...
And it's wonderful.

Diversity and variety are positive elements, as they call for different strengths from the players, and reveal different weaknesses. The players who can adapt the best to the differences - be it in dimensions, scoring systems, weather, crowd noise, opponent's style, etc. are the ones who'll come out on top.
And that's how it should be.

by ponchi101 Didn't we have last year one player that reached 7 in the tie-break at the Aussie, started celebrating her victory, only to be told it was up to 10? That was funny.
How about: you reach 6-all. You have another coin toss and the winner decides how to end it. 7 point TB, 10 point TB, or until somebody's arm falls off. At 12-all, the other player gets to decide.

(Just joking)

I know that all of these stemmed from Isner's snooze-fests at W. Yet, look at some other glorious finals that ended well past 6-6. Borg-Mac 1980 W (8-6 in the fifth), Seles-Graf RG 92(10-8), Graf-ASV RG 96 (10-8), Rafa-Roger 2008 W (9-7), Roger-Roddick 2009 W (16-14), Novax-Roger 2019 W (13-12 in super TB). We will now never see anything else like that. I wonder if we are winning or losing.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 6:54 pm Didn't we have last year one player that reached 7 in the tie-break at the Aussie, started celebrating her victory, only to be told it was up to 10? That was funny.
How about: you reach 6-all. You have another coin toss and the winner decides how to end it. 7 point TB, 10 point TB, or until somebody's arm falls off. At 12-all, the other player gets to decide.
(Just joking)

I know that all of these stemmed from Isner's snooze-fests at W. Yet, look at some other glorious finals that ended well past 6-6. Borg-Mac 1980 W (8-6 in the fifth), Seles-Graf RG 92(10-8), Graf-ASV RG 96 (10-8), Rafa-Roger 2008 W (9-7), Roger-Roddick 2009 W (16-14), Novax-Roger 2019 W (13-12 in super TB). We will now never see anything else like that. I wonder if we are winning or losing.

^ And not only did all the players involved survive those matches, but they continued to be at the top of the game - so playing beyond 6-6 had no negative effects.

Often, change is made simply so that some higher-ups can justify their jobs.

.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie I think this is a little harsh. Players have families and any forceful statement they make can be used against family members. Tennis never seems able to find the middle ground.

by Deuce So... discrimination is bad... but some forms of discrimination are good? Even necessary?
No.

Kostyuk is way, way out of line in calling for a ban of Russian and Belarusian players and saying that the presence of Russian players at Indian Wells "really hurts". Substitute any other nationality - or skin colour - in there, and she'd be suspended for saying that.
How is this different from Trump saying that Middle Eastern people should be banned from entering the U.S.? Or from chastising Chinese people, saying that they're responsible for COVID-19?
It's all asinine.
When you employ the approach of guilt by association, you are only revealing your own idiocy.

I understand that she and all Ukrainian people are upset and hurt by what's happening in Ukraine - and their anger and pain is extremely justified and understandable. But they need to direct their anger and pain at the proper sources - not just blanketly condemn all Russians simply because they're Russian. That's the definition of discrimination and prejudice.
Someone needs to educate her and tell her that Medvedev and Rublev and Sabalenka are not the ones dropping the bombs on her country.

As for Wimbledon... is the government (sports minister) saying that all Russians are guilty until they prove themselves innocent? It seems so.
If Medvedev has never openly supported Putin (has he?), then he shouldn't need to 'prove' anything.
As ti-amie mentioned above - coming out to vocally condemn the invasion could put them and/or their families at risk.
It would be an inappropriate demand from the British government.

by ponchi101 Russia is not a democracy. Medvedev, or anybody, that openly speaks out against Putin is endangered.
Also, a case of guilty until proven innocent. Medvedev has to prove that he is not involved with Putin? How do you do that, with he possible exception that Putin says so, and then you have to wonder how much his word is worth.

Kostiuk is asking for something tangible. It is up to sane people in different governments to decide if it is sensible or not. I certainly would not miss Danill at Wimby (I don't miss those strokes ever) but this is a bad precedent. What happens if a Venezuelan athlete supports the Maduro regime? Or a Turkish player backs Erdogan?

by ptmcmahon Yes, this is way beyond just not letting them display their flag or show Russia as their country.

by dmforever What does "be linked to" even mean?

Kevin

by meganfernandez

dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:49 pm What does "be linked to" even mean?

Kevin

Usually business connections of some sort, or a personal rapport or friendship. Could mean family, but probably not in this case.

by dmforever

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:52 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:49 pm What does "be linked to" even mean?

Kevin
Usually business connections of some sort, or a personal rapport or friendship. Could mean family, but probably not in this case.

It's a pretty loosey goosey term that might be very hard to prove.

Kevin

by meganfernandez

dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 6:54 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:52 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:49 pm What does "be linked to" even mean?

Kevin
Usually business connections of some sort, or a personal rapport or friendship. Could mean family, but probably not in this case.
It's a pretty loosey goosey term that might be very hard to prove.

Kevin

To the public, yes. It's possible the Wimbledon officials have something specific in mind. I wonder if they know of some connection - wouldn't surprise me given the exclusivity of the club and the Russian oligarchs in London. Not that I support this requirement at all, but I wonder if it's stemming from something specific.

by ti-amie Indian Wells: Fritz wins under the radar, but his girlfriend grabs attention
In front of a largely empty crowd, the American qualified for the Indian Wells semi-finals as he did last year, beating Miomir Kecmanovic (7-6 (5), 3-6, 6-1) on Friday. His girlfriend, on the other hand, made the buzz via a video that went viral

RÉMI BOURRIÈRES

It may not seem like it, but this is a day of celebration for American men’s tennis, which has been moribund for far too many years. By reaching the semi-finals of the BNP Paribas Open as he did last year in October – when the tournament was moved – Taylor Fritz, who defeated Miomir Kecmanovic (7-6(5), 3-6, 6-1) on Friday, became the first American to reach the semi-finals of Indian Wells since Andy Roddick in 2010 – a long time ago.

But it was a muted party. The lack of celebration could perhaps be put down to the absence of thrills in the match itself, but there was only a very small crowd in the stands to cheer on a man who is a native of California.

At 24 years old, Fritz should nevertheless garner hopes of an American resurgence. He seems to have reached a real milestone in his career in recent months; after his semi-final in Indian Wells last year (which he lost to Nikoloz Basilashvili), he has since reached the final in St Petersburg, the quarter-finals at the Rolex Paris Masters and the round of 16 at the Australian Open at the beginning of the year, a stage he had never before reached in a Grand Slam. These are performances that have allowed him to break through the wall of the top 20. With a tennis style that is both aggressive and loose, reminiscent in some respects of Mardy Fish, he may have the potential to go even higher.

Fritz has promised much since his youth – probably just as much as his rivals from the class of 1997, Alexander Zverev and Andrey Rublev, the latter whom he will meet in the semi-finals this Saturday. The 2015 world junior No 1, Fritz became the youngest American to reach a final on the circuit since 1990 (at the age of 18) the following year in Memphis. He won his first – and so far only – title at Eastbourne in 2019, becoming the youngest American to reach the top 25 since (again) Andy Roddick in 2004.

Since then, the son of former American player Kathy May (10th in the world in 1977) has suffered various physical problems, and has not quite fulfilled his potential – perhaps to the point where the American public is clearly no longer enthusiastic about him. Whether they are right or wrong about that, the future will tell.

In the meantime, the facts are there: his girlfriend, the American influencer Morgan Riddle, attracts far more views on her social media than there are spectators in the Indian Wells stadium. In fact, she might actually get more clicks than there are people in the whole country. She has gained a new level of fame through the videos she has taken to posting on TikTok in which she recounts her daily life as what she describes as a “tennis girlfriend”.

One of these videos, posted last month, has gone viral. In this video, the young woman with 226.8 million subscribers uses a very light-hearted tone to describe what the tennis world is like for her, and it’s everything one might imagine: private jets, luxury hotels, magnificent locations, and more. In short, a paradise for an influencer.

In the face of some outraged reactions from purists, Fritz unsurprisingly defended his partner.

“I don’t understand how anyone can get upset about it,” he said. “I’m the one that’s a professional tennis player, I’m the one that does this for a living. I 100 per cent agree with everything in that video.

“It got a ton of people looking at it. Regardless of the reaction people have had from it, I think everyone in the tennis community can agree that it’s good for tennis to kind of almost sell it in a different kind of way, one that she knew her audience would react to.”

Maybe Fritz has a point. But the best way to get people talking about him now is to win his semi-final against Andrey Rublev – and begin to fulfil his promise.

https://www.tennismajors.com/atp/indian ... 92976.html

I understand that there are whispers that both tours are looking to hire her to do their social medial. That's why I put this here.

by ponchi101 Only thing I would say is: this will not get one single person interested in tennis. What it will get people interested is in BEING RICH. Which I gather is something that does not need any promotion.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:22 pm

^ This is not a video to promote tennis.
This is a video to promote herself living the 'tennis lifestyle'.

It's much more self-promotion than it is informative or practical.
Heh - self-promotion on 'social media' for a change, huh?...

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:Only thing I would say is: this will not get one single person interested in tennis. What it will get people interested is in BEING RICH. Which I gather is something that does not need any promotion.

Maybe not directly, in one big leap. Like someone sees this and signs up for lessons or watches Miami all of a sudden. But it raises a lot of awareness and puts the sport higher on a lot of radars. She has something like 300 million followers. It’s great exposure and probably will move some needles.

It’s definitely not directly promoting tennis … which is good for tennis. Not all promotion is on the nose. It gets attention, and it’s far more positive than negative. Here we are talking about it and we are way off the target demo for her or tennis (in terms of growing the sport - we are in). We aren’t talking about the USTA’s “Let’s Tennis!” campaign.

by mmmm8 There's nothing she said that's detrimental about tennis (except maybe the idea that it's high-class and inaccessible, but that is akin to any elite sports). So, there can only be positives from it getting any attention.

by ti-amie

Deuce wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:55 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:22 pm

^ This is not a video to promote tennis.
This is a video to promote herself living the 'tennis lifestyle'.

It's much more self-promotion than it is informative or practical.
Heh - self-promotion on 'social media' for a change, huh?...

The fact that both tours are even entertaining the thought of this woman running their social media shows how bereft of ideas and understanding of this kind of social media presence the people who run the sport are.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 5:41 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:55 am
^ This is not a video to promote tennis.
This is a video to promote herself living the 'tennis lifestyle'.

It's much more self-promotion than it is informative or practical.
Heh - self-promotion on 'social media' for a change, huh?...
The fact that both tours are even entertaining the thought of this woman running their social media shows how bereft of ideas and understanding of this kind of social media presence the people who run the sport are.

Yes - it shows how desperate they are.

I, myself, value substance over style and quality over quantity, though.

'Promotion' like this will attract people who know exactly which styles the clothing manufacturers are currently making the players wear, but won't ever be able to name more than 2 players.
Is this beneficial to tennis? In my opinion, no.

by ponchi101 Dirty ol' ponchi101's promotion:
"If you are a professional tennis player, you can get a girlfriend like me!"
I gather that would get boys to play. She is pretty.

by ti-amie She's wearing enough make-up for three people in the still they put in the Tweet. Who knows what she really looks like? I don't watch Tik Tok videos.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 6:49 pm She's wearing enough make-up for three people in the still they put in the Tweet. Who knows what she really looks like? I don't watch Tik Tok videos.

^ Yes.
I don't find her pretty at all.
She's plastic.

by mmmm8

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 5:41 pm The fact that both tours are even entertaining the thought of this woman running their social media shows how bereft of ideas and understanding of this kind of social media presence the people who run the sport are.

Do we know that they are, in a non-joking way?

by ti-amie

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:19 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 5:41 pm The fact that both tours are even entertaining the thought of this woman running their social media shows how bereft of ideas and understanding of this kind of social media presence the people who run the sport are.
Do we know that they are, in a non-joking way?

Right now it's idle chit chat. We'll see.

by Deuce It requires a particular talent to continuously stay relevant for all the wrong reasons.
Methinks this guy possesses an overabundance of this ability...

Becker to Stand Trial...

Oh, Boris...

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:34 am It requires a particular talent to continuously stay relevant for all the wrong reasons.
Methinks this guy possesses an overabundance of this ability...

Becker to Stand Trial...

Oh, Boris...

What's funny is, he is accused of not disclosing his 1985 and 1989 Wimbledon trophies. So he gave up 1986 but not the other two? He beat Lendl that year. What does that mean? (Of course, he might not have that trophy anymore. Maybe he sold it, donated it, lost it, gave it to Lendl as a gag gift...)

by MJ2004

by Deuce ^ Again?

She'll be back.

The last time, she went to play cricket.
I assume that this time, she'll go play golf.
It's tough when you can play numerous sports at a high level - you have to satisfy the inherent challenge in each.
She'll be back.

by ti-amie Maybe she's pregnant?

I wonder if she'll ask for her name to be removed from the rankings?

by ti-amie I guess the WTA will redo the rankings after Miami?

Big surprise.

by ponchi101 Why, why, why?
Ok, you are fulfilled. But doesn't this sport give you any feelings that go beyond that? Sure, you are a HOF'er, but you will not be remembered as exceptional.
Why?
I gather it really takes more than being good to reach the true upper levels. Makes you realize even more how the great ones had something peculiarly else that fueled them. Navs, Evert, Steffi, Serena. There was something else other than the titles.
Anyway: best wishes, Ashley. You were fun, you were humble, you were elegant. I will miss that slice.

by ti-amie

by dmforever I am so saddened to hear this. I loved her game and her sportspersonship. I will really really miss seeing her play. I am just stunned and shocked.

Kevin

by dryrunguy It's her decision. Let's respect it. And yes, she's free to change her mind--again.

by JTContinental

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 2:28 am ^ Again?

She'll be back.

The last time, she went to play cricket.
I assume that this time, she'll go play golf.
It's tough when you can play numerous sports at a high level - you have to satisfy the inherent challenge in each.
She'll be back.

I will miss nothing about her drab game, but I do wish her the best. If the pandemic has brought anything positive, it's that people are making decisions to stop doing things that don't bring them joy anymore.

by ponchi101 Amidst all this: we have a new #1, in a fashion that has never happened before. And is it the #1 with the lowest point total in history?

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 4:16 am Amidst all this: we have a new #1, in a fashion that has never happened before. And is it the #1 with the lowest point total in history?

Justine Henin retired at #1 - she was also 25 at the time - that's how Ivanovic became #1 after the French Open that year. Point totals were much lower in the past as tournament values have changed over time. Ivanovic had 4200+ points when she was #1.

by ashkor87 this is the third casualty, perhaps, of the exremely onerous australian covid rules - first Djokovic, then Cahill, now Barty.. I wonder how many more careers will be damaged/destroyed..

by ashkor87 Barty's commitment to tennis was always a bit low.. I had bemoaned her lack of 'responsibility to the game' - this is the culmination..
of course, it is a purely personal decision, we should not criticize her for it . She has every right to live her life...

by Deuce

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 4:37 am this is the third casualty, perhaps, of the exremely onerous australian covid rules - first Djokovic, then Cahill, now Barty.. I wonder how many more careers will be damaged/destroyed..

Ok - you're free to wonder that...
I, myself, wonder how much suffering has been avoided and how many lives have been saved because of Australia's rigid COVID rules.

Meanwhile... Barty doesn't seem to feel that her career has been damaged or destroyed.
I doubt that Cahill feels any resentment over the COVID rules, either.
As for the other guy... well...

by Jeff from TX Not shocked but I will miss her style and grace, on and off the court. I wish she had played longer to encourage more complete players - and she was a most complete player in terms of her skill set. I found her game to be anything but drab compared to many other players. She has virtually all the shots.

by dmforever

skatingfan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 4:34 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 4:16 am Amidst all this: we have a new #1, in a fashion that has never happened before. And is it the #1 with the lowest point total in history?
Justine Henin retired at #1 - she was also 25 at the time - that's how Ivanovic became #1 after the French Open that year. Point totals were much lower in the past as tournament values have changed over time. Ivanovic had 4200+ points when she was #1.

I thought she was 28 or 29 when she retired. Or maybe you are talking about her first retirement. Or maybe I"m wrong. I miss Henin's game too.

Kevin

by dmforever

Jeff from TX wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 6:03 am Not shocked but I will miss her style and grace, on and off the court. I wish she had played longer to encourage more complete players - and she was a most complete player in terms of her skill set. I found her game to be anything but drab compared to many other players. She has virtually all the shots.

Why are you not shocked? I'm just curious.

Kevin

by texasniteowl Well...I'm a little disappointed, but not shocked. Talking heads have been mentioning rumors for a while. Her break years ago to play cricket was in part because of being homesick. And last year, due to covid rules, she was out of Australia for such a long period of time. I can't imagine how hard that was. She's won Wimbledon and her home slam. She's engaged...is the wedding later this year? She just seems to me like a homebody and just doesn't want to do the traveling anymore.

by skatingfan

dmforever wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 6:33 am I thought she was 28 or 29 when she retired. Or maybe you are talking about her first retirement. Or maybe I"m wrong. I miss Henin's game too.

Her first retirement - when she was #1 - that was the point that this is not the first time that someone inherited the #1 ranking when someone retired.

by ashkor87 The great thing about tennis is, since it is not a team game, players can retire and return at will..good thing, really, for the game, this flexibility..

by Suliso Assuming Barty's name is removed from the rankings immediately following Miami 99% chance Iga Swiatek is our new #1 player. Not too bad...

by Jeff from TX

dmforever wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 6:34 am
Jeff from TX wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 6:03 am Not shocked but I will miss her style and grace, on and off the court. I wish she had played longer to encourage more complete players - and she was a most complete player in terms of her skill set. I found her game to be anything but drab compared to many other players. She has virtually all the shots.
Why are you not shocked? I'm just curious.

Kevin

Because she has always had a higher level of identity/internal motivation that was not totally tied to tennis nor did she ever really seem to let it control/be the most important thing in her life. It was obvious that her focus was not solely on winning titles or GS - while that may have been motivating to her, it never seemed to take on the level of importance that it did for other players, and she did not seem to be one of those players who did not thrive on the competitive aspect of the sport. Don't get me wrong - I think she was quite competitive, but it never seemed to be quite as important as it was to many other players. I don't think that is either a good or a bad thing, she just seems to have a fairly different type of personality than many of the other top players and seems to have a "bigger" picture view of the world and the success she has had.

by meganfernandez

Jeff from TX wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 6:03 am Not shocked but I will miss her style and grace, on and off the court. I wish she had played longer to encourage more complete players - and she was a most complete player in terms of her skill set. I found her game to be anything but drab compared to many other players. She has virtually all the shots.

Congratulations, Iga!

I am shocked. I knew tennis insiders were hearing it, but I didn't think she would do it. She said at the Australian that she feels more like herself on the tennis court than anywhere else. That's hard to walk away from, especially now that she can play on her own terms completely. Maybe she wants to start a family. Having kids and being a top player aren't for everyone. In fact, she said "I'm so happy and I'm so ready" - I wonder if she is pregnant. I'm sure this story will come out more fully in the coming years. I don't expect her to come back, but what do I know. Hopefully she will stay involved with Tennis Australia as a mentor. Commentate some.

I find it really interesting that she doesn't have more to give, when many other players don't run out of stuff to give for another decade. She isn't even struggling with injuries, as far as we know.

She should do what she wants, but damn does this hurt tennis. Finally had a solid, serious No. 1.

by ponchi101

dmforever wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 6:33 am
skatingfan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 4:34 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 4:16 am Amidst all this: we have a new #1, in a fashion that has never happened before. And is it the #1 with the lowest point total in history?
Justine Henin retired at #1 - she was also 25 at the time - that's how Ivanovic became #1 after the French Open that year. Point totals were much lower in the past as tournament values have changed over time. Ivanovic had 4200+ points when she was #1.
I thought she was 28 or 29 when she retired. Or maybe you are talking about her first retirement. Or maybe I"m wrong. I miss Henin's game too.

Kevin

Totally forgot of Henin's first retirement, and I am a fan of hers. And thanks for the numbers on #1.

by ponchi101 I started a poll. You can select three options, and you can change them if you change your mind.
Or let me know if there is another question you want to include (it is fairly disorganized).

by Liamvalid I’m on the fence. I don’t want to actively say I won’t miss her because I think she’s good for the game, I think she is great for her country, and has one of the best tennis personalities out there. But I only watch her play if she is the only one on tv at the time and don’t actively support her game. I’ve voted in this poll just so I can see the results.

My one wish where Barty is concerned is that she turns to commentary at some point in the future, she would be a great asset to any team in that respect

by dmforever I hadn't read her statement before. If she says she's spent, then she has made the right decision. Selfishly I'm sad because I think she was great for the sport and I liked watching her play. I hope she has an awesome post-pro tennis tour life.

Kevin

by meganfernandez She definitely left several Slams on the table - if she wanted them. You gotta want them more than anything. See her in the commentating booth.

by atlpam I definitely think she left slams on the table and I will miss her in the mix. I didn't vote on either side of the comeback issue as I have no idea what she may do in the future. I wish her all happiness if she is ready to stop competing/traveling and focus on family.

by dave g Unfortunately, she played primarily when I didn't (and still don't) have access to television, so I never got to watch her play. So, I won't actually miss her play because I never saw her play.
However, I think she is leaving at a good time for her, even though she is leaving slams on the table, because being happy is more important than winning slams.

by ti-amie I said I would not miss her but that's not 100% true. I thought her slice backhand was a thing of beauty but her game itself was not that awesome or game changing in the final analysis. I respect her choice and wish her all the best.

by ti-amie

by atlpam Sad story of coach abusing a young female player.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/spor ... sault.html

by Owendonovan She made $25 million by the time she was 25. That's set for life money and a world of opportunities to do whatever she would like to pursue next. 25 is young, go have fun.

by atlpam

atlpam wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 6:58 pm Sad story of coach abusing a young female player.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/spor ... sault.html

From the article:
Aranda is one of 77 people involved with tennis on the U.S.T.A.’s suspended or ineligible list because they have been convicted or accused of sexual or physical abuse.

Is it just me or does this seem like a very large number?

by meganfernandez

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 7:08 pm She made $25 million by the time she was 25. That's set for life money and a world of opportunities to do whatever she would like to pursue next. 25 is young, go have fun.

And that's just prize money, not endorsements or bonuses. I'm just surprised someone as competitive as she is can stop that easily. Good for her if her life is that well-balanced. That's a positive. It's just a gut-punch for tennis.

by Deuce

atlpam wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 6:58 pm Sad story of coach abusing a young female player.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/spor ... sault.html

^ Can't access the article without subscribing.
Could you copy and paste it here, please?
Thanks.

by atlpam

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:33 pm
atlpam wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 6:58 pm Sad story of coach abusing a young female player.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/spor ... sault.html
^ Can't access the article without subscribing.
Could you copy and paste it here, please?
Thanks.

This one should be open for reading:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/spor ... =url-share

by Deuce

atlpam wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:00 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:33 pm
atlpam wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 6:58 pm Sad story of coach abusing a young female player.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/spor ... sault.html
^ Can't access the article without subscribing.
Could you copy and paste it here, please?
Thanks.
This one should be open for reading:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/spor ... =url-share

Thanks.
Yes, this one is accessible.

An obviously disturbing story... and even more disturbing that there are several more stories of tennis and athletic sexual abuse listed at the end of this story.

Also... it seems that the photo editor for this story has a rather misplaced sense of humour, given the photo of Aranda with CiCi Bellis and another coach...

by meganfernandez

atlpam wrote:
atlpam wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 6:58 pm Sad story of coach abusing a young female player.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/spor ... sault.html
From the article:
Aranda is one of 77 people involved with tennis on the U.S.T.A.’s suspended or ineligible list because they have been convicted or accused of sexual or physical abuse.

Is it just me or does this seem like a very large number?

Thanks for sharing. Just awful. I’ve often wondered how comfortable parents are letting their kids spend so much time unsupervised with an adult, building that close, trusting relationship. I’m sure there are more stories like this - since there are 77 people in the list, and those are only the ones reported. So sad.

by meganfernandez Back to Barty - so the last person ever to beat her is…?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ponchi101 Shelby Rogers at the USO 21.
I think.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:24 am Shelby Rogers at the USO 21.
I think.

too easy... then Raducanu beat Rogers 2 and 1.

by mmmm8

atlpam wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:03 pm
atlpam wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 6:58 pm Sad story of coach abusing a young female player.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/spor ... sault.html
From the article:
Aranda is one of 77 people involved with tennis on the U.S.T.A.’s suspended or ineligible list because they have been convicted or accused of sexual or physical abuse.

Is it just me or does this seem like a very large number?

If this is across the USTA (all levels), it's certainly a fraction of actual abuse, I thought it was quite low.

by ponchi101 So, will USTA go through a process similar to what US Gymnastics went through?

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:42 pm So, will USTA go through a process similar to what US Gymnastics went through?

We'll see. The USA Gymnastics story was broken by the newspaper in my city, Indianapolis, because that's where the organization is based. I know the journalist who sniffed it out and had the joint byline. I can't believe they didn't win the Pulitzer for that story. She works for USA Today now but still lives here. In the documentary about the scandal, called Athlete A, which the Indianapolis journalists were part of, I noticed the WTA logo on papers or reports that the journalists had. I couldn't read anything else. So there's already some connection. I tried to ask one of the journalists on the story there about the WTA thing and didn't hear back.

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:27 pm
atlpam wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:03 pm
atlpam wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 6:58 pm Sad story of coach abusing a young female player.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/spor ... sault.html
From the article:
Aranda is one of 77 people involved with tennis on the U.S.T.A.’s suspended or ineligible list because they have been convicted or accused of sexual or physical abuse.

Is it just me or does this seem like a very large number?

If this is across the USTA (all levels), it's certainly a fraction of actual abuse, I thought it was quite low.

For sure. And those are just the cases that were reported and investigated properly.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:39 pm

Funny how Rafa's rib injury mysteriously made Thiem feel a lot better.

by ti-amie

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:45 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:39 pm
Funny how Rafa's rib injury mysteriously made Thiem feel a lot better.

by ti-amie

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:08 pm

Having seen it now, I agree it should have been a default. It didn't take an unusual or unexpected bounce in the direction of the ballperson - Brooksby threw it right toward him. Momentary lapse of 'spacial awareness'? Perhaps - he didn't seem to be deliberately targeting the ballperson. But it was reckless negligence.
Just as Kyrgios should not have been permitted to play in Miami after his post-match racquet throw in Indian Wells came close to hitting a ballkid, Brooksby should have been defaulted here for this.

I have no problem with players throwing - or smashing - their racquets. Anyone who plays the game knows that anger and frustration can build up, and needs to be released. But when racquets are thrown, or balls are hit, in the direction of human beings, that crosses the line.

(The ballperson in the Brooksby incident is a man who looks to be in his 40s. I would have loved to see him throw the racquet right back at Brooksby.)

by Deuce From a current article about the Miami Open on the WTA website:
"Earlier this month, Leylah Fernandez won her first WTA title, in Monterrey, Mexico. She’s only 19 herself, but the Canadian has already achieved a Grand Slam singles final (the 2021 US Open) and is ranked No.22."

Monterrey a few weeks ago was Leylah's SECOND WTA title, of course - with the first one being... MONTERREY, one year ago.
How could the author not know this? It's not like her first title was a little known tournament in the middle of nowhere - it was the same tournament he references, one year earlier.

Megan - I TOLD YOU TO TAKE THE JOB, DAMNIT!!!

The Leylah error is buried in the middle of this article...
https://www.wtatennis.com/news/2548927/ ... uff-s-rise

.

by meganfernandez Regarding Brooksby, players should stop throwing rackets. You lose control of it when it leaves your hand. Smash it, maybe. Throw, toss, fling, chuck, launch, hurl - no. Brooksby didn't even seem to check on or apologize to the ballperson. Walked over and got the racket and that was it.

by dmforever Default, plain and simple. It should not be up to the chair umpire to see what kind of contact the racket made. That's not the point. If they made this a hard and fast rule, the umpire could just say it's the rule and they wouldn't have to worry about interpretation.

Does anyone know what the actual rule is?

And the dude didn't even apologize, as Megan said. And, the ball person even picked up his racket and handed it to him. F*%&^ that.

Kevin

by ti-amie Brooksby should've been defaulted. Tumaini is a credentialed reporter and covers the tennis beat. Tennis reporters always tow the company line.

by meganfernandez Did someone post this one yet of Jordan Thompson terrorizing a ball girl today?

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by Deuce As I said - throwing a racquet or hitting a ball in the direction of another human being - be it a ball person, an official, a fan, or an opponent - should be an immediate default - no questions asked.

by ponchi101 If. You. Hit. ANYBODY. on. court. with. ANYTHING: YOU GET DEFAULTED.
Ben is right. When you start handing out suspended suspensions, you no longer have any control.

by mmmm8

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:16 am Brooksby should've been defaulted. Tumaini is a credentialed reporter and covers the tennis beat. Tennis reporters always tow the company line.

Hmmm? Tumaini is saying he should've been defaulted, so... not the company line

(I'd also disagree with the statement in principle)

by ti-amie I was referring to the part about him being a young player etc, etc. That seemed like a caveat to me.

by mmmm8

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:57 am I was referring to the part about him being a young player etc, etc. That seemed like a caveat to me.

I thought he was making the same point Ben was - if Zverev gets away with it, then younger players will emulate

by dmforever Do ball people have a union? I know they aren't paid, so I guess not, but they really should just all not show up at the Miami Open tomorrow. All of them. Just call in sick. What would happen? I guess they'd get fired.

Kevin

by ptmcmahon Yeah they wouldn't get a free front row seat to the matches... although the job hazards are making that seem not as great lately.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez He has played 2 tournaments this year and been fined at both. Let's see about Miami.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:29 pm

by Deuce This is nice...
Reading this, you'll get a good idea of how much Barty's peers respect her...

Players Past and Present Praise Barty...

.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

dmforever wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:35 am Do ball people have a union? I know they aren't paid, so I guess not, but they really should just all not show up at the Miami Open tomorrow. All of them. Just call in sick. What would happen? I guess they'd get fired.

Kevin

Final argument needed to move all tournaments to fully electronic line calling. Won't work.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote:This is nice...
Reading this, you'll get a good idea of how much Barty's peers respect her...

Players Past and Present Praise Barty...

.

Nothing from Roger, Nadal or Novak? Did they not know her at all or something? They both won Slams the same time she did - Rafa the French and Novak at Wimbledon, right?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ti-amie

by dmforever

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:29 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:35 am Do ball people have a union? I know they aren't paid, so I guess not, but they really should just all not show up at the Miami Open tomorrow. All of them. Just call in sick. What would happen? I guess they'd get fired.

Kevin
Final argument needed to move all tournaments to fully electronic line calling. Won't work.

I said ball people, not umpires or linespeople

I'd just like the jerky players to have to get their own balls, and have to do it quickly enough so as not to get a time penalty.

Kevin

by dmforever

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:29 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:35 am Do ball people have a union? I know they aren't paid, so I guess not, but they really should just all not show up at the Miami Open tomorrow. All of them. Just call in sick. What would happen? I guess they'd get fired.

Kevin
Final argument needed to move all tournaments to fully electronic line calling. Won't work.

But now that you mention it, that's not a bad idea either. It would totally work in that it would bring the tournament to a halt if, for example, chair umpires were feeling like they weren't being protected enough from Mishaesque racket tirades.

Kevin

by Fastbackss

by ponchi101 Ah, sometimes I miss him.
Sometimes.
(he is right)

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:Ah, sometimes I miss him.
Sometimes.
(he is right)

He had great aim, hitting the tree twice.

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by 3mlm If players follow Andy's racquet smash advice, it would ruin our racquet smashing contest thread.

by ponchi101 Certainly. From that point of view, a flatly thrown racquet simply has no artistry to it.
But the topic has been rather dormant lately. It has become like the NBA's Slam Dunk contest: there is very little else that can be done. It will take some considerable talent to come up with new innovations on how to destroy a racquet. And by now, destruction is a MUST; just simply breaking one will not do.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:15 pm Certainly. From that point of view, a flatly thrown racquet simply has no artistry to it.
But the topic has been rather dormant lately. It has become like the NBA's Slam Dunk contest: there is very little else that can be done. It will take some considerable talent to come up with new innovations on how to destroy a racquet. And by now, destruction is a MUST; just simply breaking one will not do.

Stan to the rescue. He can break a racket like a man. Exquisite timing for his return.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:06 pm ...

Stan to the rescue. He can break a racket like a man. Exquisite timing for his return.

Oh, yes. A man that can break a racquet in mid-air.
But he is an exception. I can't see Taylor doing that.

by dave g

3mlm wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:38 am If players follow Andy's racquet smash advice, it would ruin our racquet smashing contest thread.

Note that that is Andy's racquet throwing advice, not necessarily Andy's racquet smashing advice. You can smash a racquet without throwing it.

by ponchi101 Let's FWD that message to all ATP/WTA players.
"Remember, just don't let go of the handle. But smash away!"

by Deuce Interestingly, Kyrgios and Daniela Hantuchova played doubles together once upon a time, about 8 years ago...
And Hantuchova was critical of Kyrgios a few years ago, saying that he “needs help” after Nick’s 2019 'meltdown' in Cincinnati.

Kyrgios shows his ignorance of even fairly recent tennis history in saying that Raducanu is a ‘bigger name’ than Hantuchova ever was. That’s simply not even close to being true. Hantuchova was a very well known and well respected player for over a decade.

I see nothing wrong with what Hantuchova stated about Raducanu. I find what she said to be quite accurate...

Kyrgios Defends Raducanu from Hantuchova, Clijsters Comments...

.

by ponchi101 Oh my god, a former professional player talking about the new gen. How disrespectful! How unfair! How dare them talk about something that they did for almost all their lives!!!!
Reminds me of a comment I read from a Vennie writer. He called this group "Generation Crystal". They shatter at the slightest touch.
And if those are the quotes from Hantuchova, they are perfectly normal statements seeing how Raducanu has been playing since the USO.
---0---
Although I agree that reporters are simply doing their job, sometimes the choice of words are less than desirable. Clijsters did not "take aim". She was simply doing her commentating job. "Take Aim" sounds malicious.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: Although I agree that reporters are simply doing their job, sometimes the choice of words are less than desirable. Clijsters did not "take aim". She was simply doing her commentating job. "Take Aim" sounds malicious.

Characterization is a huge part of good journalism and my personal crusade.

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by ti-amie

Deuce wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:42 am Interestingly, Kyrgios and Daniela Hantuchova played doubles together once upon a time, about 8 years ago...
And Hantuchova was critical of Kyrgios a few years ago, saying that he “needs help” after Nick’s 2019 'meltdown' in Cincinnati.

Kyrgios shows his ignorance of even fairly recent tennis history in saying that Raducanu is a ‘bigger name’ than Hantuchova ever was. That’s simply not even close to being true. Hantuchova was a very well known and well respected player for over a decade.

I see nothing wrong with what Hantuchova stated about Raducanu. I find what she said to be quite accurate...

Kyrgios Defends Raducanu from Hantuchova, Clijsters Comments...

.

But what Hantuchova said is true. After a win like she had at the US Open of course the locker room was going to be afraid of her potential. They're not now though and Siniakova, who looked as if she was going to retire hung on to beat Raducanu and retired the next match.

There is something going on with the Raducanu camp. It was talked about during her search for a coach especially when none of the big names who were available expressed at interest, at least publicly. The issues seem to be physical and mental. We'll see.

by Deuce It seems that the Raducanu family march to the beat of their own drum, and prefer to do things their way, rather than to give too much control over to a coach. And that's fine.
Leylah's dad is quite like that, as well.
Obviously, the parents know their kids psychologically and emotionally better than any coach would. And the psychological element is a major element of pro tennis.

I don't think Emma's on-court problems are related to the path the family has taken.
It's tough to say what the reason is, though, because she won a big tournament right at the beginning of her career. We hadn't seen enough of her before the U.S. Open to accurately assess the quality of her game. Was her U.S. Open success a fluke - is she just a 'flash in the pan'? Does she have a solid game, and her results since New York are because she's been too distracted by the attention, endorsements, and expectations?
Personally, I think, based on what I've seen, that Emma's 'proper' place is somewhere between, say, 20 and 35 in the rankings, and that her performances have been significantly affected by the attention, endorsements, and expectations which have followed New York.

Yes, Hantuchova's assessment of the current situation for Emma is quite accurate. It's unfortunate that in this age of 'political correctness', such comments are perceived by some as being 'unjustly critical'. I don't see them as being critical at all - they are simply the (I feel accurate and constructive) perspective of a person who possesses lots of experience in the area of discussion, and who seems to genuinely feel bad for Emma.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:03 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Although I agree that reporters are simply doing their job, sometimes the choice of words are less than desirable. Clijsters did not "take aim". She was simply doing her commentating job. "Take Aim" sounds malicious.
Characterization is a huge part of good journalism and my personal crusade.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please expand. What do you mean, technically (you are a journalist) as characterization, and is your crusade to get more of it or less?
I find no fault at all in any of the comments. But as Nick is irked (what gall) I wonder if the "take aim" statement is part of that.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:14 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:03 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Although I agree that reporters are simply doing their job, sometimes the choice of words are less than desirable. Clijsters did not "take aim". She was simply doing her commentating job. "Take Aim" sounds malicious.
Characterization is a huge part of good journalism and my personal crusade.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Please expand. What do you mean, technically (you are a journalist) as characterization, and is your crusade to get more of it or less?
I find no fault at all in any of the comments. But as Nick is irked (what gall) I wonder if the "take aim" statement is part of that.

What I meant is that proper, fair, substantiated characterization is a huge part of good journalism, and I'm a hard ass about it as a writer and editor. Often, I see uncertainty, opinion, disingenuousness, exaggeration, or laziness wallpapered over with an assertion that the writer or reporter is not in a position to make - a mischaracterization. Drives me crazy. It is often excused as the reporter's perspective, but that's BS. Reporters exercise judgment, but there should be a solid basis for it. I guess it's a professional crusade, not a personal one.

Edit: I just clicked on the article, and Raducanu's "alarming form slump" since the US Open is a joke of a characterization. An "alarming slump" was Djokovic in 2016-17 after winning the French and then going on a walkabout. Sabalenka's yips were probably alarming (critically worrisome). Raducanu still hasn't even played a full year on tour, and she lost 7-5 in the third, a close match. Who's alarmed? Alarming slump. Whatever.

"Taking aim" sounds pretty fair to me about Clijsters, if she was talking about Raducanu. I just read her quotes (but don't have all the context). Hantuchova's comments were more objective about her observations of the current dynamic. Clijsters's comments were more personal and judgmental.

by Deuce There's also the unfortunate fact that the authors of an article are rarely responsible for the headline of the article.
So you could have a genuinely solid article with a sensationalistic over-the-top headline.

I know that the headline was sensationalistic in the Kyrgios/Hantuchova/Clijsters article I linked to - yahoo Australia tends to be that way - but it was the best one out of the 4 or 5 articles I looked at about this subject. The others had several spelling and/or grammatical errors, which really turns me off.

I didn't find that the phrase "taking aim" was bad - I had more of a problem with the headline.

For what it's worth, he's another article which focuses on what Clijsters allegedly said... (Again, I don't particularly like the headline - but it's better than the other one)...

Clijsters' Comments...

.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:15 am There's also the unfortunate fact that the authors of an article are rarely responsible for the headline of the article.
So you could have a genuinely solid article with a sensationalistic over-the-top headline.

Yeah, clickbait. Sometimes the writer is involved in writing the headline or the other "display copy," as it's called - what might appear on social media, for example. Coverlines, headlines, deks (subheads), and their cousins. They can (and should) speak up if they think the display is misleading. They might not win the argument, though. And everyone picks their battles. But if a digital editor or copy editor wrote that Clijsters "took aim" when nothing in the story credibly substantiated her intention or motivation, that is a mischaracterization and it's bad work. There's pressure to be fast in posting stories, of course, but that's no excuse, and you can revise things online.

by meganfernandez Thiem is up next today in the OOP.

by ti-amie

by Fastbackss I put on TC and was replay of the Alcaraz match.

Out of reflex I put on ESPN2. It was their daily sports betting show. The first topic was "best bet of the day" and I was surprised to see it was a tennis one. Normally it's more mainstream sports.

(It was Swiatek to win 6 more games than Kvitova for what it's worth)

by 3mlm

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:51 pm I put on TC and was replay of the Alcaraz match.

Out of reflex I put on ESPN2. It was their daily sports betting show. The first topic was "best bet of the day" and I was surprised to see it was a tennis one. Normally it's more mainstream sports.

(It was Swiatek to win 6 more games than Kvitova for what it's worth)

That would have been a good bet.

by Fastbackss I sat there, on my phone, and thought about placing it but didn't.

*facepalm*

Fwiw it is the same spread for today vs pegula

by meganfernandez

Fastbackss wrote:I sat there, on my phone, and thought about placing it but didn't.

*facepalm*

Fwiw it is the same spread for today vs pegula

With favorable odds? Good bet.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by Fastbackss Eh, roughly the same with today's being slightly worse (-118 vs -111)

by ti-amie I'm with Megan re Kecmanovic. Great potential.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote:I'm with Megan re Kecmanovic. Great potential.

yay!

I was at his match in Cincy a few years ago, the one where Zverev hit 22 double-faults. A tennis pro had told me to keep an eye on him so I went to his match. Then he kind of plateaued - finally breaking out.

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by Suliso Iga Swiatek has one of the best finals records I've seen. Very early in her career, but still.

In juniors: 6-2 including 2018 Wimbledon title

At ITF level: 7-0

At WTA level: 5-1

The last loss was in the very first WTA final (Lugano 2019) to Polona Hercog.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote:Iga Swiatek has one of the best finals records I've seen. Very early in her career, but still.

In juniors: 6-2 including 2018 Wimbledon title

At ITF level: 7-0

At WTA level: 5-1

The last loss was in the very first WTA final (Lugano 2019) to Polona Hercog.

Intimidating. Serena-esque

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by ponchi101 I posted about it for the IW final, but let's repeat it. These have been the scores:
French Open. Sofia Kenin 6–4, 6–1
Adelaide International. Belinda Bencic 6–2, 6–2
Italian Open. Karolína Plíšková 6–0, 6–0
Qatar Open. Estonia Anett Kontaveit 6–2, 6–0
Indian Wells. Maria Sakkari 6–4, 6–1

She pretty much has demolished her opponents once she reaches the final. Having said that, I don't see her doing that to Naomi, who is at her best on hard courts. I can see either one winning, but I would not bet on any set going 6-1.
Then again, we all know how my predictions go.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:21 pm I posted about it for the IW final, but let's repeat it. These have been the scores:
French Open. Sofia Kenin 6–4, 6–1
Adelaide International. Belinda Bencic 6–2, 6–2
Italian Open. Karolína Plíšková 6–0, 6–0
Qatar Open. Estonia Anett Kontaveit 6–2, 6–0
Indian Wells. Maria Sakkari 6–4, 6–1

She pretty much has demolished her opponents once she reaches the final. Having said that, I don't see her doing that to Naomi, who is at her best on hard courts. I can see either one winning, but I would not bet on any set going 6-1.
Then again, we all know how my predictions go.

Naomi and... Wim Fisette for strategy. Swiatek returns so well, I'm curious to see Osaka's serving patterns. (But I can't! Because I can't watch the match! Not on TC Plus.)

by Fastbackss It's on regular TC, isn't it?

by Deuce If anyone doubts that in-tournament withdrawals and in-match retirements are at epidemic levels now, take a look at this.

This is not the year to date - it's just from Miami!

I found this breakdown for the WTA, but could not find one for the ATP.
As the comment says - add Badosa to the list...

by Deuce .

The video is nice - but the article is the reason I'm posting this...

Ukrainian Players Ponder What's Next...

.

by Suliso Some stats about Iga's performance in recent times:

- 17 match winning streak. Longest since Naomi's 23 after restart of the tour in August 2020
- has won the last 20 sets
- the fifth ever Sunshine double and the youngest player to accomplish it
- has won her last 6 WTA finals and all in straight sets
- third time someone wins 3 straight WTA 1000 since the start of this classification in 2009 (Wozniacki 2010, Serena 2013)

by ponchi101 Do we recalibrate her final Slam tally? She has won RG, so being this young, I would say she gets at least one more.
If she won IW/MIA, she can be counted as a good hard court player. At least one USO and one Aussie? Plus, she won Wimby as a junior. So she has the potential to be a career slam winner, with a couple of "more than one" (RG seems the most certain).
I say: she is good for 6 slams, and a good chance (50%) of getting a career slam.

by Suliso Could be 6, but could also be 16. Really hard to say. Depends how strong the competitions is in her own generation plus one above and one below.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Yes, sure. But tell me: how on Earth can you NOT compare him with Rafa? Spanish, plays a very physical game, rather polite and low key, even plays with the same racquet.
And no offense to either player to be compared with each other. They are as admirable as can be.

by ti-amie I think Roddick remembers all the "Baby Fed" hoopla around Dimitrov and maybe thinks that hurt him psychologically.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:58 pm I think Roddick remembers all the "Baby Fed" hoopla around Dimitrov and maybe thinks that hurt him psychologically.

I think Roddick wants to get his name in the media.
He's been quite present in the media over the past couple of weeks.
I, myself, prefer it when he's unheard and unseen.

by ti-amie I saw this thread on another forum and thought we could talk about it here. I'm not good when it comes to a lot of technical issues but even I got this. I wonder if this is behind Naomi's talking about studying the ATP game, specifically Rafa's comes from.

ATP Style players : Barty, Swiatek, Kasatkina, Jabeur, Badosa, Sakkari, Muchova, Suarez Navarro
ATP Style : short backswing (racket stays on the right side of the body) , more top spin, easier to replicate

WTA Style players : Collins, Bencic, Osaka, Pegula, Stephens, Kvitova, Venus, Azarenka, Kerber
WTA Style : Long backswing (racket goes beyond the body) , flatter ball trajectory, requires excellent timing

Hybrid : Halep, Andreescu, Serena, Sabalenka, Krecjikova

Is the women's game going to transition to an ATP/Hybrid style of play? Are upcoming WTA players learning the wrong techniques? Will all WTA players be able to handle an ATP/Hybrid style of play?

Shout out to @aaron for putting this out there!

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:20 am
ATP Style players : Barty, Swiatek, Kasatkina, Jabeur, Badosa, Sakkari, Muchova, Suarez Navarro
ATP Style : short backswing (racket stays on the right side of the body) , more top spin, easier to replicate

WTA Style players : Collins, Bencic, Osaka, Pegula, Stephens, Kvitova, Venus, Azarenka, Kerber
WTA Style : Long backswing (racket goes beyond the body) , flatter ball trajectory, requires excellent timing

Hybrid : Halep, Andreescu, Serena, Sabalenka, Krecjikova

Is the women's game going to transition to an ATP/Hybrid style of play? Are upcoming WTA players learning the wrong techniques? Will all WTA players be able to handle an ATP/Hybrid style of play?

Style, or technique, is entirely player dependent. It's an individual thing. There is no universal 'right' or universal 'wrong'.
The right technique is the one that feels natural and works for the individual person.
The wrong technique is the one that doesn't work for the individual person.

I'm happy to see that Leylah is not on any of the lists above. This is because she developed her own personal technique - and didn't allow anyone to screw it up by telling her how she's 'supposed' to hit the ball.
She was told several times that her technique is all wrong, etc. Apparently she ignored that.
Again - whatever feels natural and works is right. It doesn't matter what it looks like, or if it fits into a nice, pre-defined box, etc.

by ponchi101 Almost all ATP players bring their racquet head ABOVE their head before contact. So I think that the Stosur sequence is incorrectly labeled.

by meganfernandez

Apropos of nothing, the slapper is ranked 630 in the world in juniors even though he's the #1 seed at this event, the lowest-level junior tournament. He's probably not someone we're going to see on the tour in a few years.

by ponchi101 WTF? Not even low, but totally cowardly. Shake hands and then slap your opponent, who can't do anything because you are in a handshake.
Whichever organization is in charge of that tournament/level has to suspend this kid for the rest of the year, at a minimum.
And Patrick is right. The younger players see that nothing is ever done and then it spills all over.

by dmforever Wow. And he just put his hands up after as if to say "I didn't do anything". He should definitely be suspended and PMac's point is very well taken.

Kevin

by dmforever

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:45 pm WTF? Not even low, but totally cowardly. Shake hands and then slap your opponent, who can't do anything because you are in a handshake.
Whichever organization is in charge of that tournament/level has to suspend this kid for the rest of the year, at a minimum.
It used to be the sport of gentlemen. Used to be.

Don't you think maybe stuff like this happened before but there just weren't cell phones around to capture it? I don't think human behavior has changed all that much. But yes, they need to suspend him ASAP.

Kevin

by meganfernandez

dmforever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:49 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:45 pm WTF? Not even low, but totally cowardly. Shake hands and then slap your opponent, who can't do anything because you are in a handshake.
Whichever organization is in charge of that tournament/level has to suspend this kid for the rest of the year, at a minimum.
It used to be the sport of gentlemen. Used to be.
Don't you think maybe stuff like this happened before but there just weren't cell phones around to capture it? I don't think human behavior has changed all that much. But yes, they need to suspend him ASAP.

Kevin

Yes, for sure. And Ponchi, it's an ITF juniors tournament. Surely there will be a suspension.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:42 am Almost all ATP players bring their racquet head ABOVE their head before contact. So I think that the Stosur sequence is incorrectly labeled.

Would you consider Stosur hybrid then?

I think for women it may come down to what they want to do physically. I was surprised to see CSN on the ATP list but thinking about it she is on the right list.

No matter what your approach though you need a brain to go along with it.

by ti-amie A longer video (abt 27 minutes) with side by side and overlapping comparisons from 2015.

by ponchi101 I would say that a FH is a FH. Men have plenty of different ways of hitting one. Rafa's FH is nowhere near Medvedev's, which is nowhere near Novax, and on and on. So I don't expect there to be anything like a "WTA FH" or an "ATP FH".
The beauty of the sport. Nowadays you can play anyway you want, as long as it lands in.
And deep.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Tsonga interview in French with English subtitles.

by dmforever I wish him the best of luck. Unless I'm forgetting something, he seems like a really good guy. Even when you know you have to do it, it must be a hard decision to make.

Kevin

by Deuce Not surprising for Tsonga - it's been several years of injuries, and a free fall from the top echelon...

I remember first seeing him at a junior tournament, where he was playing with his friend and countryman Mathieu Montcourt. I was impressed with both of them, but I felt that Montcourt had the more complete game at that time.
Montcourt never made any significant impression at the pro level - and he was once fined for betting on matches (not his own matches).

Sadly, Montcourt died suddenly of cardiac arrest at just 24 years old.
Whenever I've seen Tsonga play at the pro level, it has always made me think of Montcourt.

by ponchi101 One of the few players* that perhaps would have won a slam or two had they not been born during the triumvirate's dominance.
Best of luck, I hope he stays around tennis.

Off Topic

*Ferrer, Berdych, Tsonga

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:41 pm

Apropos of nothing, the slapper is ranked 630 in the world in juniors even though he's the #1 seed at this event, the lowest-level junior tournament. He's probably not someone we're going to see on the tour in a few years.

I wanted to respond to this earlier, but forgot to...

I would suspend him for maybe for 4 or 6 months or something. No-one was hurt - it was just a slap. It is unacceptable, of course - and it needs to be punished... but you don't take tennis completely away from a 15 year old kid for that.

Also, we have no idea what happened during the match. In Junior tournaments, players call their own lines - there are typically no linesmen before the Semis (this was apparently a 1st round match), and the umpire in the chair (sometimes there is no umpire at all) is just there to overrule the players' calls if he sees something obvious. Maybe the player who got slapped was cheating with his line calls during the match, and/or was behaving like a complete jerk - we don't know.

Also... the kid who got slapped should have become suspicious as soon as the slapper dropped his racquet into the net!

by ponchi101 We have been talking about players' injuries and retirements.
Stat from the NBA: only FIVE players have played every game this season. Non is a starter.
No All Star player has played every game.

The difference, of course, is that the games still get played. The people that paid their tickets still get to see something.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:38 am We have been talking about players' injuries and retirements.
Stat from the NBA: only FIVE players have played every game this season. Non is a starter.
No All Star player has played every game.

The difference, of course, is that the games still get played. The people that paid their tickets still get to see something.

More players are missing more games in team sports now than 20, 30, 40 years ago, as well. Very likely for the same reasons as in tennis - they are much more spoiled and entitled than players of the past were.
And, as pointed out, the effect of players on teams missing games is not as great as it is in individual sports, because players on teams are replaced, and the games are still played.

Other, even more significant differences between team sports and tennis are that, when a player misses a game in team sports, it is not always due to injury - it could be because the player is 'benched' by the coach, or due to being suspended (which we know very rarely happens in tennis)...

The games are also more condensed in the NBA, NHL, and MLB than matches are in tennis - 82 games in 6 months in the NBA and NHL, double that in MLB (not counting playoffs) - that's over 13 games per month for 6 consecutive months (82 games). When was the last time a tennis player played that many matches over a 6 month period? Tennis players don't play 82 matches in an entire year, let alone in any 6 month period...

by Fastbackss I think that there is a gulf between "the way the past was" and "spoiled and entitled."

Is there an element to it? One could successfully argue that.
Is it an easy crutch to be used and possibly taken advantage of? Sure.
Have there been advancements in what physios do? In what science says? Sure. There are full teams to prolong the career of the players.

It would be better to maximize at selected tournaments than a scatter shot of playing more tournaments, but calendar layout is a story for another day.

by ponchi101

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:52 am I think that there is a gulf between "the way the past was" and "spoiled and entitled."

Is there an element to it? One could successfully argue that.
Is it an easy crutch to be used and possibly taken advantage of? Sure.
Have there been advancements in what physios do? In what science says? Sure. There are full teams to prolong the career of the players.

It would be better to maximize at selected tournaments than a scatter shot of playing more tournaments, but calendar layout is a story for another day.

You may be correct about that gulf you talk about, but there is no denying that contracts and prize money are way above what used to be good money in the past. The winner of the USO, for example, makes more in one tournament than many very successful players did in their entire career (not corrected for inflation, of course).
The prolonging of careers could also be studied. Sure, we are spoiled by the fact that players like Roger, Rafa and Novak are playing well into their late 30's. But remember all the others that did not. Roddick, for example, retired quite early for today standards. Plus, there is, to me, a paradox there: if players are retiring from matches more frequently (i.e. they are getting injured more and more) why are they retiring, as a group, later in life? Would seem contradictory. The opposite explanation could be that since they retired from the match, they avoided further injury.
But as always, there are so few studies and so little data in tennis. We really don't even know, numerically, if the retirements from today are truly more than in the past. It feels like that, but there is no such study. For example, if in the 1970's there were 25 retirements in one year (just an example) and in the 2020's there were 250, you could say it is obviously an increase. But if there are ten times more matches, then the ratio is the same.

by Deuce

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:52 am I think that there is a gulf between "the way the past was" and "spoiled and entitled."

I don't see a significant gap at all.
It's not just the difference in prize money.
It's not just the difference in endorsement money.
It's not just the difference in attention (there was no internet when the players of yesterday were playing, AND there was much less attention from mainstream media, as well)...

Have you been to a tournament in the past 20 years or so? Have you seen the way that players are treated at the tournaments? They are treated like demi-gods and Royalty, with people literally waiting on them hand and foot at every turn. This, of course, leads to very large egos, and a feeling of entitlement.

The only huge gulfs which exist are in the areas of the huge difference in prize money, the huge difference in endorsement money, the huge difference in the amount and degree of attention the players get, and the huge difference in they way they are treated at tournaments, etc. And all of this is true of all professional sports - not just tennis.
If you don't believe that these elements lead to a feeling of entitlement among the players, then I really don't know what to say...

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:16 pm But as always, there are so few studies and so little data in tennis. We really don't even know, numerically, if the retirements from today are truly more than in the past. It feels like that, but there is no such study. For example, if in the 1970's there were 25 retirements in one year (just an example) and in the 2020's there were 250, you could say it is obviously an increase. But if there are ten times more matches, then the ratio is the same.

^ While there may be more tournaments today than there were back then, if anything, today's individual players play FEWER matches per year than the players of 20, 30, 40 years ago did...

by patrick

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:38 am We have been talking about players' injuries and retirements.
Stat from the NBA: only FIVE players have played every game this season. Non is a starter.
No All Star player has played every game.

The difference, of course, is that the games still get played. The people that paid their tickets still get to see something.

Who are they?

by ti-amie

by Deuce Firstly, unless she’s playing Su-Wei Hsieh in her ‘next tournament’ (whenever - or IF ever - that turns out to be - I'll believe it when I see it), I’m pretty sure that practicing with ‘The Magician’ won’t help her very much.
Secondly... it’s likely the angle and/or the shading, but in that photo, she looks about 20 years older than she actually is.

by ponchi101

patrick wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:10 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:38 am We have been talking about players' injuries and retirements.
Stat from the NBA: only FIVE players have played every game this season. Non is a starter.
No All Star player has played every game.

The difference, of course, is that the games still get played. The people that paid their tickets still get to see something.
Who are they?

The commentators (Doris Burke and Mark Jones, whom I believe are good at it) did not even say who they were, because their point was that indeed, the news players don't see playing every game as a responsibility. Burke brought up the story of how Jordan used to say that if somebody had bought a ticket to watch him play, he had a duty to do so.
They were very partial to the idea that the top players are not the same as the top players of yore. Of course, the Suns were getting blown off court by the Clippers because they sat 4 of their 5 starters, for no reason whatsoever. They all were on the sideline .

by Suliso It's not just players. NBA coaches also sometimes rest players in less important games. The real criteria is play off games. If someone has to retire from one of those or can't start then I believe he's indeed seriously injured.

by mmmm8

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:15 pm

Why do they both look like they are in their 60s in this photo?

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 2:48 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:15 pm
Why do they both look like they are in their 60s in this photo?

Bianca especially! Lighting is everything.

by Liamvalid Big Tsonga fan here, of the players Ponchi mentioned, Tsonga is the one I would have preferred to win a slam. I love watching him and he has a great presence on court. I’m going to the French this year so I’m hoping he gets a kind draw and I can get to watch his last performance

by ti-amie Boris Becker guilty of four charges under Insolvency Act

GETTY IMAGES

Ex-tennis star Boris Becker has been found guilty of four charges under the Insolvency Act relating to his 2017 bankruptcy.

The former world number one was accused of hiding millions of pounds worth of assets to avoid paying his debts.

He was declared bankrupt in June 2017 over an unpaid loan of more than £3m on his estate in Mallorca, Spain.

Becker, 54, was acquitted of a further 20 charges at London's Southwark Crown Court on Friday.

He was cleared of nine counts of failing to hand over trophies and medals from his tennis career, including two Wimbledon men's singles trophies.

The six-time Grand Slam champion told reporters outside court he would not be commenting on the verdict.

He was found guilty of transferring hundreds of thousands of pounds from his business account after his bankruptcy, failing to declare a property in Germany, and concealing €825,000 of debt.

He could face a jail sentence carrying a maximum term of seven years for each count.

Becker told the jury his career earnings of $50m (about £38 million) were spent on an expensive divorce from his first wife in 2001, child maintenance payments, and "expensive lifestyle commitments", including his £22,000-a-month rented house in Wimbledon, south-west London.

The former tennis star told the court he was "shocked" and "embarrassed" when he was declared bankrupt, and he had co-operated with those tasked with securing his assets, including offering up his wedding ring.

Becker, a German national who has lived in the UK since 2012, was cleared of failing to declare a second German property, as well as his interest in the £2.5m Chelsea flat occupied by his daughter.

During the trial, he said he earned a "vast amount" in his career, paying in cash for several properties, but his income "reduced dramatically" following his retirement in 1999.

His barrister, Jonathan Laidlaw QC, said at the time of Becker's bankruptcy he was too "trusting and reliant" on his advisers.

At the start of the trial, Judge Deborah Taylor instructed the jury of 11 men and one woman to ignore Becker's celebrity.

"You must treat him in exactly the same way you would treat someone you have not heard of and is not in the public eye," she said.

Dean Beale, the chief executive of the Insolvency Service, said: "This conviction serves as a clear warning to those who think they can hide their assets and get away with it. You will be found out and prosecuted."

Becker has been bailed ahead of a sentencing hearing on 29 April.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61043018

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez They didn't have a dramatic photo of Korda, the winner?

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:24 pm

by ponchi101 He was the one stretching his opponent?

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:He was the one stretching his opponent?

Welllllll. Okay.

photog probably took 90% of his snaps on Alcaraz.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ti-amie

by ti-amie I was able to read this article on my iPad but can't on my laptop for some reason. There is a paywall.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:54 pm I was able to read this article on my iPad but can't on my laptop for some reason. There is a paywall.

I was able to read it (on my computer).
And I'm glad I did. Thanks for posting it.
I can't say that I'm very surprised by the revelations.

by ti-amie It does explain a lot doesn't it? Finally some reporting by someone who covers tennis.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:52 am It does explain a lot doesn't it? Finally some reporting by someone who covers tennis.

That they're "looking outside of tennis as well as inside" for Friemel's replacement perhaps indicates that there are few upstanding, honest people in tennis who could be trusted to hold that position.
If they choose someone outside of tennis, that could very well bring all sorts of different problems, of course.

I know a few local linespeople and chair umpires - I'll talk with them about this article.

I do know of one high up male tennis official who ended up recently marrying a much younger woman who also recently got her gold badge. He was in a position to help her climb the ladder. I'm not saying that he did - I don't know... but he has the influence to have done so, and I would think that this situation was questioned - though likely only privately - as it was occurring.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote:

Now I like him.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ponchi101 It took you THIS long?

He is either legit or his management team is a marvel.
I say a bit of both but, he seems legit to me.

by Fastbackss Paywalled by the umpire article. Oh well.

(Tangential sidebar - I still hate the Sports Illustrated website - so many ads and the like - and it often makes me avoid Wertheim's articles, which makes me sad because I enjoy his work)

by atlpam

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:05 am Paywalled by the umpire article. Oh well.

(Tangential sidebar - I still hate the Sports Illustrated website - so many ads and the like - and it often makes me avoid Wertheim's articles, which makes me sad because I enjoy his work)

Same here - I used to read Wertheim's articles on a regular basis but I gave up on the SI site even before the paywall went up. If anyone has the link to request his weekly mailbag by email, please repost it here.

Screen Shot 2022-04-15 at 10.37.12 AM.png

by mmmm8 Here's the umpire article without a paywall: https://archive.ph/ip3Xh

by ponchi101 Thanks for the link. An interesting read.
So, is tennis in real trouble? The current behavior of the top players, this information, the incoming retiring of the top three in the ATP and Serena in the WTA. This does not paint a rosy picture.

by Deuce For those who couldn't access the article about umpires and officiating, here it is below...
It's worth reading.

Or you could try the link again and just click on your browser's 'Stop' button as soon as the page appears. That should stop it before the restriction aborts the article. That's what I do with paywalls, and it usually works (as it did with this article)...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2022 ... ear-power/

Revealed: 'Secret society' of tennis umpires living under reign of fear, power abuses and sexual favours

Exclusive: Telegraph investigation has exposed allegations of exploitation going on for decades which have been kept secret

BySimon Briggs, TENNIS CORRESPONDENT
14 April 2022 • 1:06pm

Tennis umpires are living under a “rule of fear” and are at risk of predatory sexual advances according to leading figures within the sport, who have called for urgent reform to prevent the exploitation of young officials.

A Telegraph investigation into the case of Soeren Friemel – the ITF head of officiating who resigned last month after making “inappropriate comments and invitations” to a younger umpire – has revealed previous instances of similar behaviour.

We found that:

Power abuses of this kind have been known to tennis authorities for at least 15 years

Non-disclosure agreements have been employed to keep such cases secret

“Using your body” – being open to sexual advances – has long been considered a fast track for aspiring umpires

A small number of people have disproportionate influence over umpiring appointments, creating networks of patronage and the potential for exploitation

People are afraid to speak out, as whistleblowers tend to be ostracised

The investigation also found that tennis’s authorities, including the International Tennis Federation, have kept a lid on controversies by banning umpires from any interaction with media.

In the words of Richard Ings – a former head of officiating at the ATP Tour – “This rule was designed to prevent discussion of particular instances within matches. It was never designed to protect the sport from embarrassment. But that’s what it has become.”

Friemel’s resignation took place in the middle of the most turbulent period for player-umpire relations since John McEnroe was at his peak. In the first major event of 2022 – January’s Australian Open – Canada’s Denis Shapovalov earned an US$8,000 fine for yelling “You guys are all corrupt” at chair umpire Carlos Bernardes.

The case for a new umpiring regime is today put forward by Andrew Jarrett, the Englishman who was one of Friemel’s predecessors as ITF head of officiating, while also serving as Wimbledon referee between 2006 and 2019.

“The recent investigation by a QC [into Friemel’s behaviour] and the subsequent announcement by the ITF came as no great surprise,” Jarrett told the Telegraph in an email. “World tennis and the officials working within it deserve better governance. This is now an opportunity to make changes to a system that has long been broken.”

'We have to rip the system up'
Friemel’s case drew worldwide interest when it was first reported by the Telegraph on Feb 3. A 50-year-old German, Friemel was suspended for 12 months in relation to four incidents involving the same umpire between 2011 and 2015. According to an ITF spokesperson, “The issue was the situation of power imbalance.”

Now the Telegraph can reveal that similar allegations had previously been made against another leading tennis official, who cannot be named for legal reasons. This second case is widely known within the officiating world but has never been brought to public notice, because of the non-disclosure agreements used in what one insider called “a compromise departure”.

According to a senior tennis administrator, who spoke on condition of anonymity, the fact that two similar instances have emerged from the closed-off world of umpiring is evidence of the need for change.

“Officiating needs to be reviewed,” the administrator said. “We just have to accept it’s not right. It doesn’t need a sticking plaster. We have to rip it all up.”

Other former officials have told the Telegraph that abuses of various kinds have been going on in secret for decades. Networks of patronage develop because power is concentrated in the hands of a small number of individuals. Young officials have every reason to want to curry favour with their superiors.

“In my time, it was a well-known fast-track for your career if you were open to using your body to promote your career,” said Martin Wikstrom, a Swede who was a chair umpire in the early 2000s, before becoming a successful business executive. “When you look at some of the officials that came through – let's say within 10 years – there was no way that they would have made it, if the decision was purely based on their competence.”

Friemel’s suspension is unusual in that it emerged into the public domain, unlike previous scandals. Umpiring’s culture of silence starts with the Code of Conduct signed by all officials, stating that they “shall not, at any time, participate in any media interviews or meetings with journalists … without the approval of the supervisor/referee”. In practice, this approval is rarely given. And without any means for the younger, less experienced officials to have their voices heard, they become vulnerable to exploitation.

“Officials are afraid to speak,” said Richard Ings, who was the ATP’s head of officiating from 2001 to 2005, as well as the world’s highest-ranked chair umpire in the late 1990s. “If they do tell a reporter about anything that is happening backstage, even anonymously, their bosses will go hunting for who gave that information. If they find who spoke out, or maybe just have suspicions, they don’t even have to bring a Code of Conduct charge. They can simply not select that person for the next job. People quickly get the message and there is a wall of silence that develops.”

'Your face needs to fit'
If the umpiring world worked smoothly on its own terms, its inward-looking nature would not be so much of an issue. But the promotion of officials is a subjective business, which is further complicated by an apparently dysfunctional structure.

As one former grand slam referee told the Telegraph, “The structure is a legacy from the beginning of tennis’s Open era in 1968. The tours needed to provide top-class officiating for their events. But this meant we ended up with three different organisations, each with its own officials. It’s a horrible outcome because you end up with each group protecting its own patch.”

The ITF employ nine full-time officials, the Association of Tennis Professionals nine and the Women’s Tennis Association seven, plus five more in a “development” category.

Chair umpires start off with a white badge and then earn promotions through the three higher categories – bronze, silver and gold. Their performances are assessed by umpires in the band immediately above them, which presents an immediate conflict of interest. One former gold-badge umpire told the Telegraph that he had been encouraged by his peers not to mark too generously.

At the end of each year, a five-person “re-evaluation panel” meets. The panel – which comprises the heads of officiating at the three tours, plus one representative from the grand-slam events and one independent observer – decides who should be shunted up the hierarchy, and who down, in a process which many believe to be flawed.

“It’s a boys’ club,” said one silver-badge umpire. “They manage the marks to keep people in certain positions. The organisations know who they want and then the end-of-year meeting is a negotiation, an exchange. ‘If you let us have our person, we’ll let you have yours.’ They arrange the grades they want, pump them up for the favoured ones, penalise others by ignoring the good things.

“Supervisors and judges have the flexibility to write up the reports in any way they want. It’s not transparent. It’s not neutral. Gold badge umpires” – of whom there are 33 – “come in 50 shades of gold. Some have half the draw on their ‘No List’, while others can handle all-comers. [The ‘No List’ comprises the players whose matches an umpire is kept away from, because of previous run-ins.]”

According to another official, the lack of clarity around appointments allows networks of patronage to develop. “Nowadays, for an umpire to make a good career or to be promoted, it is not enough to be good in the chair. Your face needs to fit as well. If you make the right connections, or go to the right weddings, your career will jump up in front of people who are much better than you, and you’ll keep going even if you make very bad mistakes on live worldwide TV.”

The Telegraph put these claims of nepotism to Kris Dent, the ITF’s director of professional tennis, whose department oversees officiating. “We take any suggestions of wrongdoing seriously and have shown we will act where necessary,” Dent replied in an email. “This includes tackling any perception of unfairness, so that all umpires feel that they are treated the same. We also need to continue our efforts to address diversity in terms of male and female umpires and attract more people from Africa and some parts of Asia.

“I recognise that there are a few who don’t embrace these changes, but change is a constant and we must continue to adapt if we are to remain fit for purpose. The ITF chose to appoint an independent QC to run the investigation into Soeren Friemel. We also asked an arbitration firm based in London to handle the ensuing appeal. In 2016 we introduced additional review and approval layers for Davis Cup and Billie Jean King Cup ties, in terms of the appointment process of officials. It’s not the case at the ITF that these decisions are made by one person.”

A better model?
The Telegraph also asked Dent whether the tours should continue to run officiating, or whether it would be better if umpires came under the remit of the International Tennis Integrity Agency – a new umbrella organisation that was created last year to oversee the game’s anti-doping and anti-match fixing operations.

“I have yet to see a compelling case for that,” Dent replied. “What I do believe strongly is that we and the tours must continue to align and work closely for the benefit of officiating globally. By working together we can successfully tackle emerging challenges such as the role of new technology like electronic line-calling, which will undoubtedly require changes to the development pathway for the next generation of umpires and officials.”

Dent’s views on this last question are not shared by all. The senior tennis administrator – who preferred to remain anonymous – emphasised the need for more separation between officials and players.

“When the tours are reliant on good relations with the players, and officials are ruling on their matches, that’s quite tough,” the administrator said. “There’s a conflict of interest. An independent body is a very wise idea. The Friemel case has to be a wake-up call.”

Several recent incidents have drawn attention to the nature of the player-official relationship. Last month, world No3 Alexander Zverev received a suspended sentence for slamming his racket four times into the umpire’s chair after a disputed line call in Acapulco. The decision, taken by ATP head of officiating Miro Bratoev, led Wikstrom to comment on social media that “officials [are] sitting in the laps of the top players”.

Last week, ATP chief executive Andrea Gaudenzi was forced to send a circular to the men’s tour in which he complained that “the first three months of the season have seen an unusual frequency of high-profile incidents involving unsportsmanlike conduct” and promised sterner penalties in the future.

The ITF began advertising for Friemel’s replacement in late February. The appointment is seen by many in the business as a moment of truth. Kris Dent says that “we’re looking outside of tennis as well as inside,” and points out that an external agency – Sports Recruitment International – is handling the process.

For those who feel excluded or exploited by the system, a continuity candidate – meaning someone who is already high up in the industry – would be a further indication that nothing will change. They point at those who have been at the top of officiating for decades and suggest that their very silence is a kind of complicity.

Some believe that Friemel himself could yet return to frontline officiating, perhaps even stepping back into his other former position as referee of the US Open. This would not be a widely popular outcome, however. There are many who see his ITF resignation as an opportunity to rethink the whole area.

Tennis Investigation Form

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by Owendonovan Sex for advancement just seems so basic.

by Deuce

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:39 am Sex for advancement just seems so basic.

The revelations/accusations in the article mention other elements of manipulation and corruption, as well...

by ti-amie

by Owendonovan

Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 4:06 am
Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:39 am Sex for advancement just seems so basic.
The revelations/accusations in the article mention other elements of manipulation and corruption, as well...

True, but sex just seems so low bar. When that's all it takes, it just seems so unimaginative.

by ponchi101

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:50 am ...

True, but sex just seems so low bar. When that's all it takes, it just seems so unimaginative.

What do you recommend? An offer you can't refuse? Your horse's head in your bed?
(I actually like your post. I find it unusually different)

by meganfernandez

Owendonovan wrote:
Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 4:06 am
Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:39 am Sex for advancement just seems so basic.
The revelations/accusations in the article mention other elements of manipulation and corruption, as well...
True, but sex just seems so low bar. When that's all it takes, it just seems so unimaginative.

I know what you mean by unimaginative, but imagination isn’t very high on the list for most people. Certainly isn’t as important as sex.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ponchi101 (Uhm, this topic is veering towards IMAGINATION and SEX, and these are the bunch of TAT perverts talking, so... how long before this thing heads straight to the dumpster?)

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:29 pm (Uhm, this topic is veering towards IMAGINATION and SEX, and these are the bunch of TAT perverts talking, so... how long before this thing heads straight to the dumpster?)

Not happening, I'm changing the subject (not on purpose). I like this roundup of WTA players who have recently cracked the Top 100 for the first time, but one thing jumped out at me - of the 7 players, they give everyone's nationality except for the Russian player. Intentional or oversight? As an editor, it's glaring to me, so if these pieces are edited, it feels intentional.

https://www.wtatennis.com/photos/257495 ... hs-of-2022

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:13 pm ...

Not happening, I'm changing the subject (not on purpose). I like this roundup of WTA players who have recently cracked the Top 100 for the first time, but one thing jumped out at me - of the 7 players, they give everyone's nationality except for the Russian player. Intentional or oversight? As an editor, it's glaring to me, so if these pieces are edited, it feels intentional.

https://www.wtatennis.com/photos/257495 ... hs-of-2022

Thanks

It has to be intentional. The WTA and ATP are not even putting the Russian flag next to the players.
The longer this war goes on, let's see how will it affect Russian players. They are not to blame for what their lunatic president is doing, but that is not how human nature works.

by Owendonovan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:55 am
Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:50 am ...

True, but sex just seems so low bar. When that's all it takes, it just seems so unimaginative.
What do you recommend? An offer you can't refuse? Your horse's head in your bed?
(I actually like your post. I find it unusually different)

Breakfast in bed with a horse head.

Wash my car for a year.
Babysit every weekend for a year.
Something more useful than a likely 10 minute moment?

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:13 pm Not happening, I'm changing the subject (not on purpose). I like this roundup of WTA players who have recently cracked the Top 100 for the first time, but one thing jumped out at me - of the 7 players, they give everyone's nationality except for the Russian player. Intentional or oversight? As an editor, it's glaring to me, so if these pieces are edited, it feels intentional.

https://www.wtatennis.com/photos/257495 ... hs-of-2022

Of course they're not mentioning the nationality of Ru___an players or showing the Ru___an flag - because we all know that ignoring the Ru___an nationality will end the Ru___an invasion of Ukraine.
To acknowledge that Ru___ans exist will obviously prolong the invasion.

Similarly, we all know that if we pretend that COVID-19 is completely under control, then it will be completely under control.

It's quite simple, really.

by meganfernandez

Owendonovan wrote:
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:55 am
Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:50 am ...

True, but sex just seems so low bar. When that's all it takes, it just seems so unimaginative.
What do you recommend? An offer you can't refuse? Your horse's head in your bed?
(I actually like your post. I find it unusually different)
Breakfast in bed with a horse head.
Wash my car for a year.
Babysit every weekend for a year.
Something more useful than a likely 10 minute moment?

You just made my point.

no contest.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ti-amie Andreescu did an interview with Courtney Nguyen. It's...interesting.

After questioning her future, Andreescu ready to make season debut
Bianca Andreescu needed time away from tennis to reflect and put the game, and her role in it, into perspective. But she's back. And she's ready.

By Courtney Nguyen - WTA Insider

Photo by WTA/Jimmie48

STUTTGART, Germany -- Bianca Andreescu returns to the court this week for the first time this season, which is encouraging news considering it wasn’t long ago she was considering her future in tennis.

"I'm being really honest here, but I actually wanted to quit the sport," Andreescu told WTA Insider this week in Stuttgart. "It was really bad. I am privileged in a way for having this opportunity and doing all of this. Now I'm very grateful, more than ever. So I don't want people to think, 'Oh you're a little baby, just suck it up.' But it was an accumulation of two-and-a-half years. A lot had happened and I just didn't want to deal with anything anymore.

"So I realized that I really do love the sport and I do want to continue, but not just to win Grand Slams, or to do this and that. I want to do something bigger in the sport and I want to help contribute to a better world as well. I realize that tennis is my way toward that."

This week, the 2019 US Open champion is set to play the Porsche Tennis Grand Prix, her first tournament of the 2022 season. She opted to delay the start of her season to address mental health concerns and, after a seven-week pre-season training block, says she's returning to competition with a renewed appreciation for the game.

(...)

"I never really felt like I was completely ready [to come back]," Andreescu told reporters at Media Day in Stuttgart. "I'm not sure that anyone is for sure ready for something.

"But I just felt like my time off was enough. I kind of got tired and bored of not challenging myself on the court. I really missed that fire that I had competing and pushing myself. So I think that was when I thought it would be good to start playing again."

Andreescu spent her break disconnecting from tennis and living the life of a normal 21-year-old. Between spending time with her family and friends and crushing sessions of Call of Duty or NBA 2K22 online, Andreescu went on a retreat to Costa Rica and discovered new tools to keep herself mentally centered.

"Just having that opportunity really helped me get away from the tennis world," Andreescu said. "I was in my own bubble, just complete meditation, yoga, all that hippie stuff, which I love.

"I'm taking a lot of what I learned there and I'm bringing it on tour with me because I remember how good I felt on that retreat. So if I can grab some stuff and bring it on tour it will really help me sustain my mental health."

Andreescu sat down with WTA Insider in Stuttgart to discuss her decision to hit pause and the new perspective it brought to her career:

WTA Insider: You've had to take extended breaks from the game in the past, but those were due to injuries. This time it was a choice. Does that make any difference?

Andreescu: Yes, I think it does. Even when I didn't play in 2020, that was kind of a decision I couldn't make, either. It was forced a little bit. So this is definitely the first time I did make the decision. But I was thinking about it two-three months prior to me actually taking a break, right after the US Open.

It definitely wasn't an easy decision, but I told myself, 'Look, I've been feeling a certain way for a while now. A month off isn't going to cut it.' I spoke to a couple of people that were close to me about it and some professionals as well. It was a collective decision, but at the end of the day, it was my final decision, obviously. But I think it really helped a lot. It really did.

WTA Insider: In your press conference you said you weren't focusing as much on results right now. Do you think you're coming back as a more patient person?

Andreescu: I think I am patient because I felt like before, I felt so much pressure - not coming from other people, even though that's inevitable - but the pressure I put on myself, it was constant stress on me. I felt like I had to continue putting that pressure on so that I could continue to push myself and push myself.

But the whole point of me taking that break was realizing that it couldn't be like that. I kind of made a habit out of it and it was very unhealthy. I identified myself too much with my results. If I lost, I hated myself. If I won, I loved myself. Or even if I did win, sometimes I was still hard on myself because I didn't like one game in the match.

I was very critical and it was very unhealthy. People were telling me this and this and this, and I was absorbing it to the most of my capabilities at the time, but I felt like I was just so closed off from everything. I was in my own world. I did feel like I was absorbing what they were telling me, but at the same time, I really wasn't. That wasn't fair to my team, my family, or my friends at all. So I was like, 'Yo, something needs to change because if I continue like this, my career is going to go down the drain.'

WTA Insider: You mentioned wanting to take some of the lessons you learned on your Costa Rica trip and apply them to your tennis world. What's more helpful to you: Keeping your worlds separate or merging them?

Andreescu: I think it really depends on the situation, but for instance, something like that is really important for me to merge into my professional career because I did learn a lot. It is personal, but it's also professional in a way because waking up every morning, I don't only want to do the same routines in a tournament. I want to have it throughout my whole entire life.

It's kind of like meditation. I don't only use all these techniques for my career, I use it for everything. So I think it really depends.

WTA Insider: Is it easy for you to keep routines?

Andreescu: I'm definitely not a fan of keeping routines that much, but for certain things, I think it is important to keep a routine. I've experimented with a lot of that kind of stuff over the years. What's a good time for me to go to bed? What's a good time for me to wake up in the morning? Stuff like that I change up still.

But for instance, I found out that I work better in the mornings than in the evenings throughout the past couple of months. I have more energy in the morning. So I try to schedule my practices in the mornings. But obviously, sometimes you have to change it up because you'll play a night match, so you kind of have to get used to the lights.

But it's not easy to keep routines. Even meditating every morning is not always easy, but I think what will really make me successful in the future is finding the discipline to do all these things. I think that's just a muscle that people have to grow because not everyone likes routines.

https://www.wtatennis.com/news/2579612/ ... ason-debut

by ponchi101 I love their description of the life "of a normal 21 year old".
I thought the life of a normal 21 year old was; you are at college studying, or you already have a job. Not "I am going to Costa Rica to meditate".
I gather times have changed.

by MJ2004

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:54 am I love their description of the life "of a normal 21 year old".
I thought the life of a normal 21 year old was; you are at college studying, or you already have a job. Not "I am going to Costa Rica to meditate".
I gather times have changed.

Indeed they have, if you are privileged enough. Gap years, in which a 21 year old may travel the world or simply meditate in Costa Rica, are quite common on the campus where I work.

by JazzNU Probably gonna keep using Tennis24, but long overdue.

by ti-amie Hmm. Is the merger of the two tours imminent?

by ponchi101 Don't see that happening. Merging the tours would start again the prize money debate, as if you have one tour there would be no difference between the ATP and WTA same-tier tournaments.

by ti-amie It's been talked about for awhile though. I have always felt that the WTA would get the short end of that deal and that someone over there would realize that. After the way the WTA dropped out of the joint venture with the ATP re TennisTV you'd think the ATP wouldn't want to be bothered with the WTA again.

As you said the big thing would be prize money. If you look at the 250 tier the difference in prize money between the tours is stunning.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote:

Great interview. She had a relationship with him from age 17 to 23 or so. The coach was the only adult who traveled with her on tour. Her mom stayed home with her much younger sister. Pam said these May-December relationships were fairly common on the tour at the time, with coaches or Tour staffers. She doesn’t consider it sexual abuse but emotional abuse. He was married and 33 years older.

by ashkor87 We need more female coaches, for sure..why are they nearly all men? What would a man know about coaching a woman that a woman wouldn't?!

by ponchi101 The subject has come up before. What would happen if we find out that women do not want to coach? You can see how many former greats have never even come close to coaching. I can't even recall BJK, as involved as she has been in the sport, coaching anybody in particular for any extended period of time.
I can only think of a few women coaches of late. Mauresmo and Conchita, Davenport coaching Maddy for a while. Nothing stops other former players to join the coaching ranks, and yet they don't seem to be in demand or don't want to. I have always wondered how come nobody has crawled on her (or even his) knees to convince Navs to be her coach.
Maybe indeed women have more and better things to do after their careers are over. And notice that other examples of successful women coaches come with a caveat: Gloria Connors, Melanie Molitor. Both parents of their player.

by Deuce ^ And Shapovalov's mom, as well...

'Political correctness' has absolutely no influence on me saying this (or saying/doing anything else), but I honestly think that the answer as to why most coaches are male is paternalism. It's the age old thought/belief that 'men know better'. Of course, this is seen in action throughout many facets of society, not just in tennis or sports.

One of the ways this has always bothered me, ever since it was instituted, is that female tennis players are allowed to be coached during matches (except at the Majors), but male tennis players are not allowed to be coached during matches.
This quite blatantly infers that the female players require more help to navigate through a match than male players do. Add the fact that, as stated above, most coaches of female players are men, and the entire thing is extremely condescending and paternalistic.

It was at its worst when on-court coaching was allowed. This was always a drama being played out in front of everyone: The male coach would come down to the court from his seat to provide much needed 'guidance' to the 'overwhelmed', 'helpless' 'damsel in distress' who could not possibly continue without his aid. That is exactly the message it gave, which is terrible.
Again - male players are not allowed to be coached during matches - because they 'obviously don't need it', but female players ARE allowed to be coached during the matches because they 'obviously need it'.

I don't know why there's been no more objection to this than there's been. I've always hoped that a female player would stand up and yell out "WHAT IS THIS BLOODY SH*T?"

It's crazy.
Neither gender is more needy than the other.
Either allow coaching during the match for both sexes, or for neither. Period.

by ponchi101 As there has been a bit of a talk about the naming of the TENNIS FORUMS, I started a poll to ask if we want a bit of renaming. That would mean that the tittles will change a bit, but not much (I will keep the RANDOM RANDOM oddity because I find it quirky and funny, and I like the forum better when we are funny). All current posts will remain as they are but the new title will apply to the new posts from now on only.
Having said that:
The forum is a bit like a Frat House kitchen, and I do mean ANIMAL HOUSE frat house. Yes, we know somebody put a big sign on the main blender saying DO NOT USE TO MAKE SOUPS, but then somebody did, and he cleaned it later, but it still smells like broccoli when you make your strawberry shake. And somebody used the really good knife to open a can, making it dull, because he could not find the can opener (which was right in front of him). But, that is one of the charms of a frat house: you have to learn to live with 50 other people that you really would rather not live with because, admittedly, you used the last roll of toilet paper yesterday and did not tell anybody, so you are guilty of this mess too.
Let me know. I can't ban myself but if pushed to it, I promise not to come around for a few days.
(See how you like that

)

by Liamvalid I check out both threads regularly, and just scroll past what I’m not interested in. Maybe we could ask an admin to move something if we feel it’s in the wrong place? The vast majority of posts in the tennis players random thread are relevant

by Deuce I think that changing the titles of the forums would also make the content of the forums more clear for the new people who join this discussion board.

by ptmcmahon I think everyone is missing out by not picking the last option

And now I look like the jerk for being the only one to pick that option...hehe.

by ponchi101

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 1:13 am I think everyone is missing out by not picking the last option And now I look like the jerk for being the only one to pick that option...hehe.

or the wise man...

by ptmcmahon I just didn't want you to have that option go unused!

by ti-amie So this happened earlier today...

by ponchi101 F1 (before the 2000's. Now, literally a Sunday drive)
Boxing
UFC
American football/Ice Hockey (I really couldn't tell which one is tougher)
Rugby
Basketball (especially 1990's BB)
Tennis

by Owendonovan Gymnastics is tougher than contact sports.

by JazzNU I agree Owen. I think gymnastics and figure skating get overlooked because they are (usually) pretty to watch. But there's a reason retirement age from both is very young. Very tough to do and even more brutal on the body and the injuries you can sustain are yikes!

I have no idea if Liam and Andy are friends or just friendly enough, cause DAMN!

by ponchi101 Yep. Dropped that one. I just don't watch appreciation sports, so I rarely watch gyms.
But you are right. They tell me "you have to play one down against the Chicago Bears defense, or walk the length of the balance beam" and I will put on the pads. I can always run backwards.

by Deuce Not taking anything away from the difficulty of gymnastics - but it would certainly seem that the primary reason people retire early from it is that the human animal is most flexible between the ages of about 13 and 20 or 21. And flexibility is, of course, paramount in gymnastics. There's a reason that so many gymnastic champions are teenagers. After age 20 or so, some can still get by in gymnastics for a few years, but that's when natural muscle structure, larger bones, etc. begin to obstruct one's flexibility.

by Deuce If Murray is not saying that in jest about Broady, it's quite classless from him. And obviously unnecessary in order to make his point.
(I don't know what the relationship between the two is.)

Insofar as determining the 'toughest sport'... it depends what is meant.
Are we looking to define which sport is the toughest on the body physically?
Or are we trying to determine which sport is the most difficult to master?
If the latter, tennis is probably close to the top. If you've ever seen top athletes from other sports trying to play tennis, it's usually pretty ugly. That includes pro baseball players, which seems odd, as they can hit a round ball with a round bat. But they are stationary when they do it - and that makes a huge difference.

In terms of mastering a sport - curling is also one of the most difficult. Surely some of you will laugh - but you'd also fall straight on your rear end if ever you tried curling!

I've seen many people try it for the first time, thinking it will be as easy as it looks on TV - and they are shocked into reality when their behind hits the ice - usually several times.
It requires great balance and precision. Think of launching a 40 pound rock 100 feet or so on a sheet of ice so that it stops in a particular spot the size of a square foot or less...

by Liamvalid For anyone wondering, Andy and Liam are good mates and take shots at each other for banter. This point goes to Murray I reckon

by meganfernandez

Liamvalid wrote:For anyone wondering, Andy and Liam are good mates and take shots at each other for banter. This point goes to Murray I reckon

Yeah it was a joke.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ponchi101 It would have been surprising for Andy to go that low and on such short notice.
Proof that the man has an excellent sense of humor. Will be missed only a bit less than his fellow big 4, once he is done.

by Liamvalid

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:13 pm It would have been surprising for Andy to go that low and on such short notice.
Proof that the man has an excellent sense of humor. Will be missed only a bit less than his fellow big 4, once he is done.

It’s not just his sense of humour, he comes across as quite a selfless guy with a strong moral compass. I just wish I liked his tennis as much as I liked his personality!

by ponchi101 Oh, agree. He has plenty of stories that proof he is his own person, and as down to earth as possible.
Just the wedding. With his friends, in his town, nothing fancy. Just another bloke marrying his girl.

by JazzNU

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:08 am For anyone wondering, Andy and Liam are good mates and take shots at each other for banter. This point goes to Murray I reckon

I figured they were friends, wondered if they were good friends though because Liam wasn't giving it back to him in that instance, which I'd have expected. There was another shot Andy took at him earlier this week that made it much more obvious I thought that this was a thing with them and they were friends, but you'd only know that if you follow one or both I think. But I'd guess most don't and this was the only thing that plenty saw and people barely know Liam.

by ti-amie No WTA tournaments this week for the second time this year.

by Suliso

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:13 pm No WTA tournaments this week for the second time this year.

Madrid starts Thursday, doesn't it?

by Deuce A couple of months ago, we discussed the recycling of tennis balls.
Some mentioned that the balls can be 'recycled' as dog toys, as being put on the legs of chairs, desks, walkers, etc., and even in your dryer to help lessen static or make clothes softer or some such. But none of that is actually recycling - it is simply re-purposing. In the end, even after those uses, the tennis balls still end up in the landfills, taking centuries to decompose - which is something we should be working to avoid.

In 'civilized' societies, the common and comfortable illusion is that the truck that comes once a week to pick up our garbage somehow transports it to a magical 'NeverNeverland', where all of our garbage just... disappears.
Of course, that's not the case - but with human beings, 'out of sight' typically means 'out of mind', and we don't think about where our garbage ends up, and of the damage it does.
Think, for a moment, what would happen if, instead of those magical garbage trucks conveniently transporting our garbage out of our sight - and mind... if instead of that, we'd all have to bury our garbage on our own property. I guarantee that this would cut the garbage we produce at least in half - and probably more!
Think about it...

I came across this short video on the subject of the environmental/ecological effect of tennis balls, and proposed solutions. I like the video - so I'm including it here.
I hope people give some thought to this...

.

by ti-amie

Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:31 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:13 pm No WTA tournaments this week for the second time this year.
Madrid starts Thursday, doesn't it?

Okay I think I have it now.

WTA Qualies start tomorrow. No draw available yet. Main draw play will start April 28.

Men's Qualies start on April 28 with MD play beginning May 1.

by ashkor87 Excellent video ..everyone should be aware of this!

by meganfernandez Thanks! love this topic.

Deuce wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:24 am A couple of months ago, we discussed the recycling of tennis balls.
Some mentioned that the balls can be 'recycled' as dog toys, as being put on the legs of chairs, desks, walkers, etc., and even in your dryer to help lessen static or make clothes softer or some such. But none of that is actually recycling - it is simply re-purposing. In the end, even after those uses, the tennis balls still end up in the landfills, taking centuries to decompose - which is something we should be working to avoid.

In 'civilized' societies, the common and comfortable illusion is that the truck that comes once a week to pick up our garbage somehow transports it to a magical 'NeverNeverland', where all of our garbage just... disappears.
Of course, that's not the case - but with human beings, 'out of sight' typically means 'out of mind', and we don't think about where our garbage ends up, and of the damage it does.
Think, for a moment, what would happen if, instead of those magical garbage trucks conveniently transporting our garbage out of our sight - and mind... if instead of that, we'd all have to bury our garbage on our own property. I guarantee that this would cut the garbage we produce at least in half - and probably more!
Think about it...

I came across this short video on the subject of the environmental/ecological effect of tennis balls, and proposed solutions. I like the video - so I'm including it here.
I hope people give some thought to this...

.

by JazzNU

by ponchi101 He will be 41 then, right? Never doubt this man, as he has proven he can do incredible things. But that will be quite a tall order.

by ponchi101 Wimbledon has cleared the path for Novak to defend his title. They will not require vaccination for the players.
So. We will not let Russian and Belarusian players play because it can be used as propaganda for the Russian invasion of Ukraine. But, we will let unvaccinated players play because that will, of course, not be used by anti-vaxxers as proof that the vaccine are bogus.
Making not a lot of sense, to me.

by JazzNU I don't think Wimbledon was ever in doubt for Novak, was it? I don't think UK has had those kind of entry restrictions in 2022 from any part of Europe.

by ponchi101 There was talk about what would happen at the Slams. W is now clear. I am not sure about RG but the USO would still, today, be out of the question as the requirements to enter the USA mandate vaccination.
Of course, by September we will be on the "everybody on his/her own" mode, and a fifth or sixth wave of C19. Who knows.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 If only he were a tennis player in the ATP and could get a suspended suspension...
Pretty bad for him. Incredible that his management of his assets was so terrible he ended up here.

by Suliso Boris not the sharpest pencil in the box...

by Owendonovan I'll never understand how you can earn millions of dollars annually and be in debt. Does he still have a drug and alcohol problem? He kinda reads like he does.

by meganfernandez

Owendonovan wrote:I'll never understand how you can earn millions of dollars annually and be in debt. Does he still have a drug and alcohol problem? He kinda reads like he does.

Bad investments.

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by ponchi101 And he is not the only one. From the top of my head: Myke Tyson and Allen Iverson. Two guys that made tens of millions (in Tyson's case, well over 100MM).
And as Megan says: bad investments. They were unable to fend off all the pimps that wanted to suck their money off them.

by ti-amie

I wish she'd posted video but this is better than nothing.

by ponchi101 Well, if she feels comfy with that, fine.
But I would say that she is one of the players with less difference between her FH and BH. Both are weapons, so running around one does not make much of a difference.
Again, she is the one on the court. So what do I know?

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:44 pm
Owendonovan wrote:I'll never understand how you can earn millions of dollars annually and be in debt. Does he still have a drug and alcohol problem? He kinda reads like he does.
Bad investments.

I think Suliso's explanation is more accurate, as it expands well beyond just bad investments...

Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:15 pm Boris not the sharpest pencil in the box...

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 29, 2022 10:46 pm Well, if she feels comfy with that, fine.
But I would say that she is one of the players with less difference between her FH and BH. Both are weapons, so running around one does not make much of a difference.
Again, she is the one on the court. So what do I know?

I'm kind of surprised that "running around a backhand return in the ad court" was a lightbulb moment. I do that all the time! Inside-out FH from the ad court is one of my two favorite shots. And it helps that Nadal's FH has a ton of heavy spin on it to take the opponent way off the court. Probably Iga's, too.

I didn't think Naomi's BH is that good - you do? She must greatly prefer her FH - esp in that direction - to do this and leave so much court open. That's the other thing about Nadal - he can cover that ocean of open court. If Naomi can, great. Put it in the playbook.

by ponchi101 I don't see much difference between her FH and BH. In that aspect, she is more like Novak, almost the same from both wings (Novak's BH is steadier than his FH).
She can finish points from either side.
Still, I really don't know if she has a preference. I remember that Stan, as good as his BH is, wills till run around it. He simply says he feels better hitting his FH, and anyway, he has a sledgehammer on either side.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:I don't see much difference between her FH and BH. In that aspect, she is more like Novak, almost the same from both wings (Novak's BH is steadier than his FH).
She can finish points from either side.
Still, I really don't know if she has a preference. I remember that Stan, as good as his BH is, wills till run around it. He simply says he feels better hitting his FH, and anyway, he has a sledgehammer on either side.

I think she is more aggressive off the FH wing, guess that’s what I meant. Still, world-class BH for sure.

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by ponchi101 I think that at WTA level, players are more balanced than in the ATP. Meaning that they don't have terrible disparities between either wing. There are no "Murrays", clearly better from one side (BH) than the other, for example. All the women have become very solid from either side.
You also see the odd "run around the BH" effect in the WTA. That is never seen in the ATP. Just some of the differences.

by ti-amie MIKE DICKSON: Boris Becker is charming, quirky, friendly but flawed... the same sense of infallibility which carried him to an amazing Wimbledon triumph has come back to bite him as tennis legend is jailed for 30 months
By MIKE DICKSON FOR THE DAILY MAIL

PUBLISHED: 16:15 EDT, 29 April 2022 | UPDATED: 18:02 EDT, 29 April 2022

Boris Becker arrives with partner Lilian de Carvalho Monteiro for his sentencing at Southwark Crown Court in London on Friday

Boris Becker first soared to fame with his athletic dives around the lawns of Wimbledon. Thirty seven years on, and less than ten miles away, he came crashing down to earth.

Friday’s sentencing at Southwark was the culmination of a fall a long time in the making, one that has its roots in the events that took place on the Centre Court in 1985.

The same sense of infallibility that carried him to an extraordinary triumph at seventeen served him less well – to put it mildly – when it came to managing his business affairs in later life.

Not unlike Becker himself, the term Schadenfreude comes from Germany and has been adopted by the British. There was little evidence of it to be found within the confines of the tennis world as word of his demise began to circulate.

At the Madrid Open, there was an initial sense of shock. The jaw of Bulgarian star Grigor Dimitrov – in whose career Becker has taken a paternal interest – nearly dropped to the floor when I told him.

Back at Wimbledon there will be discussions about whether he can retain membership of the All England Club, whose tie he wore in learning his fate. That was conferred after winning the first of what were to be six Grand Slam titles (three at the AELTC) in a glittering career that saw him become the world’s number one player.

A court artist's sketch of Becker heading down to the cells after being sentenced, watched by his girlfriend Lilian and his son Noah

A better player than Roscoe Tanner, who reached the final in 1979, they now share the unwanted distinction of going to prison after gaining major prominence at SW19.

The inescapable fact is that Becker has done wrong, and it should be remembered that manipulating his finances in such a way is not a victimless crime.

Yet his decline is also accompanied by a sense of pathos, with almost Shakespearean feel to the plunging fortunes of a man who once strutted around tennis’s most famous arenas like he owned them.

My own association with him goes back, intermittently, over more than three decades. Our first real acquaintance came at a grass court event held on Merseyside where, unprompted, he announced he would be donating his prize money to the Hillsborough appeal.

Becker first soared to fame with his athletic dives around the lawns of Wimbledon

He is an easy person to like, in the experience of myself and many others in the game. Charming, somewhat quirky and with a magnetic presence when walking into a room. Friendly and, of course, flawed.

Becker is the product of extraordinary formative experiences which saw him propelled to superstardom at an age when his contemporaries were still at school.

He was a manchild when he first won Wimbledon at 17. When we looked back on the whole episode a couple of years ago at his Thames-side apartment he described as being ‘like the first man on Mars.’

It is hard to overstate the level of fame that that brought him in his homeland, where fans would camp outside hotels to catch a glimpse of their hero if he was playing in Germany. The level of scrutiny became such that at one point he took to walking around in a wig and glasses.

A confirmed anglophile, in Britain he reached the status of being recognisable by his first name, at least until the arrival of a certain Prime Minister. 'Occasionally I see a headline with Boris in it and wonder what have I been up to now?’ he joked.

The notoriety was only added to by a private life which is hardly done justice by the usual description of ‘colourful’.

It can be overlooked that everything sprung purely from his ability as a tennis player. Delivered following an odd rocking motion, he possessed a technically outstanding serve that combined power with accuracy, backed up by penetrating groundstrokes and an ability to smother the net.

His virtues were never more accentuated than on the quicker surfaces such as grass, and he was a catalyst in changing the way the game was played.

Latterly he has shown his technical knowledge in a spell coaching Novak Djokovic. At times that has been disguised by his occasionally eccentric commentary style with the BBC, but it is undoubtedly there.

It is hard not to think that the undiluted adulation experienced as young man has a link to what has transpired. Probably, too, the absence of self-doubt which is such an asset when competing at the most rarefied levels of sport.

There are those in tennis who have attempted to offer support and wise counsel in recent years. Among them was Ion Tiriac, the Romanian tycoon and entrepreneur who once managed him and has been contrastingly successful in a business context.

The German celebrates beating Kevin Curren enroute to winning the men's singles final at Wimbledon in 1985

Somewhere it all got lost. It is not to excuse what he has done in saying that the sorry outcome still carries with it a profound sense of melancholy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... onths.html

by ti-amie I wasn't sure where to put the Becker article. It ended up here because the first one was posted here before the name change. Ponch, if it should be moved please do so.

by ponchi101 No need to move it, Ti.
---0---
Although I like the article, there are some things that are not factual.
His contemporaries and peers were also on tennis courts. Stefan Edberg, his most celebrated foe and of his same age, won the Aussie a few months after Becker won W. Sure, the Aussie carries a lot less prestige than Wimbledon, but he was not the sole child prodigy of that generation. A couple of years later, Steffi started making her impression on the game, certainly surpassing Becker in achievements. Graf never mismanaged her fortune; her father did.
Other child prodigies had also been around. Borg won his first RG at 17, Wilander too. While Borg was gone by the time Becker came around, Mats was still playing.
And Becker's crimes are of a different type than those of the truly unworthy of, perhaps not compassion, but a shrug. When the writer claims that they are not victimless, the victim is usually the Government, unable to collect taxes (until they do). It is a victim that is much harder to relate to than, for example, the people that Bernie Maddof scalped.
Still. To prison he must go. The penalty for being an European (were he a South American, you can bet he would never go anywhere but back to his mansion).

by dmforever In case anyone is interested...a player who I've never heard of was convicted of match fixing and has been banned for 16 years.

https://akipress.com/news:670641:Kyrgyz ... -year_ban/

Kevin

by Deuce ^ Here's another article with more detail...
She's won some ITF level tournaments, and reached a ranking of 163.

The rules covering 'match fixing' are extremely broad, as you can see in this article.
Perhaps too broad?

Ksenia Palkina Banned From Tennis For Match Fixing...

.

by meganfernandez Townsend won a $100k ITF title coming off maternity leave. It’s her first title in three years.

by meganfernandez The rare instance when playing Djokovic was just what a player needed...

This is a look at Davidovich Fokina's last month or so through his eyes. He was burnt out, questioning what he wanted to do with his life (he says so, but I wonder if it was really that severe), and facing a rusty Djokovic helped turn around his confidence. It's also a good reminder that there's much more texture to a player's form, micro and macro, than we're ever aware of.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/davidov ... e-may-2022

by Deuce Some of you will recognize this guy...
It's Enric Molina, former Gold Badge chair umpire.

While I was watching the Bouzkova - Alexandrova match yesterday, his face appeared on my screen.
In Bouzkova's 'player's box'.
Seeing his face out of the usual context, I said to myself 'I know him... but from where?'
I found him on Bouzkova's website (listed as 'Manager' - she has some humorous titles for people in her 'team' - her dad is 'Boss').

It's odd to see a former fairly well known chair umpire now sitting in a player's box...

.

by meganfernandez Interesting. Quick Google shows that he joined Tennium a few years ago as a partner. Sebastian Grosjean is a co-founder. So Bouzkova must be a Tennium player. It's like IMG, represents players and owns tournaments. Based in Barcelona.

Deuce wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 8:14 am Some of you will recognize this guy...
It's Enric Molina, former Gold Badge chair umpire.

While I was watching the Bouzkova - Alexandrova match yesterday, his face appeared on my screen.
In Bouzkova's 'player's box'.
Seeing his face out of the usual context, I said to myself 'I know him... but from where?'
I found him on Bouzkova's website (listed as 'Manager' - she has some humorous titles for people in her 'team' - her dad is 'Boss').

It's odd to see a former fairly well known chair umpire now sitting in a player's box...

by meganfernandez Kando is retiring... Is this the right thread? Feel free to move it.

by ponchi101 Overall, an overachiever in my opinion. Two slam finals and many years close to the top. As he says, a very good tennis career.
I think he could be a good coach, specially teaching a serve. His was very fluid (with that height, a very good combo).
Hope he does well in whatever he starts now.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 4:16 pm Overall, an overachiever in my opinion. Two slam finals and many years close to the top. As he says, a very good tennis career.
I think he could be a good coach, specially teaching a serve. His was very fluid (with that height, a very good combo).
Hope he does well in whatever he starts now.

The most successful NCAA player on the ATP since McEnroe. I can't tell if he graduated- he was there for 3 seasons. Mal Washington, who spent two seasons at Michigan, made one Slam final but didn't achieve as high a ranking as Kando - he got to #11, Kando got to 5.

by ponchi101 Him and Isner, although Isner has never made a Slam. But he has a MS1000. So indeed, two successful products of American Colleges.

by dmforever I'm curious who y'all think will be the next first grand slam WTA and ATP winner and where it will happen.
I'm predicting Anisimova and Alcaraz at this year's French because, why not?

Kevin

by meganfernandez

dmforever wrote:I'm curious who y'all think will be the next first grand slam WTA and ATP winner and where it will happen.
I'm predicting Anisimova and Alcaraz at this year's French because, why not?

Kevin

Alcaraz is definitely the popular pick. I’m tempted to go with Tsitsipas but he hasn’t had a great year … and Alcaraz is in his head.

WTA, who knows??!! For fun I will say Jabeur at Wimbledon.

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by meganfernandez Not sure I believe this

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by ponchi101 Alcaraz will not win RG yet. I say next in line is Tsisipas, but I am not sure he can do it at RG either. I would say we have to wait for the USO for a new ATP winner.
WTA? Anisimova won't win RG. Swiatek looks solid there. So I say, somebody new at W. Somebody completely out of the blue. Megan's pick of Jabeur there is not a thoughtless one.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 7:01 pm Alcaraz will not win RG yet. I say next in line is Tsisipas, but I am not sure he can do it at RG either. I would say we have to wait for the USO for a new ATP winner.
WTA? Anisimova won't win RG. Swiatek looks solid there. So I say, somebody new at W. Somebody completely out of the blue. Megan's pick of Jabeur there is not a thoughtless one.

Quarterfinalist last year, lost to Sabalenka. Jabeur has a good shot this year if she's healthy.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote:

Strange motion from Botic, but not hindrance-level IMO. If PCB was watching the ball, would he have noticed much?

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by dmforever

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 7:01 pm Alcaraz will not win RG yet. I say next in line is Tsisipas, but I am not sure he can do it at RG either. I would say we have to wait for the USO for a new ATP winner.
WTA? Anisimova won't win RG. Swiatek looks solid there. So I say, somebody new at W. Somebody completely out of the blue. Megan's pick of Jabeur there is not a thoughtless one.

So you're thinking Rafa at RG and Novax at W?

Kevin

by ponchi101 More Novax at W than Rafa at RG. I say Rafa is the favorite at RG, but no over the field. At W, I say Novax over the field.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 3:28 pm Kando is retiring... Is this the right thread? Feel free to move it.

^ Class.

.

by JazzNU

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 6:57 pm Not sure I believe this

Sounds like it might be more about returning for some kind of Polish Champions League and knowing she'll be at Wimbledon at this point seems to suggest Legends, but she's definitely playing again in some respect. And maybe it also just means she'll be around more. Thinking it's likely not a coincidence that she's in Rome this week and we might hear more from her soon.

by ponchi101

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 12:03 am

I know his views on Equal Pay and some others are not very welcomed, but I always felt that, on the court, he was honest and a hard worker. He was the kind of player that us, the regular players, could try to imitate. When people were trying to play like Roger, Rafa or Nole, I would always think that for our level, trying to imitate some of Simon's strokes was a faster, surer route.
Certainly he will not be missed; not too many accomplishments to remember. But he does fall on the category of the overachiever.
And I think that he would make a great coach. Lots of his wins were simply because he understood the game better than the other guy.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:
JazzNU wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 12:03 am
I know his views on Equal Pay and some others are not very welcomed, but I always felt that, on the court, he was honest and a hard worker. He was the kind of player that us, the regular players, could try to imitate. When people were trying to play like Roger, Rafa or Nole, I would always think that for our level, trying to imitate some of Simon's strokes was a faster, surer route.
Certainly he will not be missed; not too many accomplishments to remember. But he does fall on the category of the overachiever.
And I think that he would make a great coach. Lots of his wins were simply because he understood the game better than the other guy.

Does everyone know my Simon story, or should i tell it again? Pretty sure I helped him break into the top 15.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by dave g

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 12:54 am
ponchi101 wrote:
JazzNU wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 12:03 am
I know his views on Equal Pay and some others are not very welcomed, but I always felt that, on the court, he was honest and a hard worker. He was the kind of player that us, the regular players, could try to imitate. When people were trying to play like Roger, Rafa or Nole, I would always think that for our level, trying to imitate some of Simon's strokes was a faster, surer route.
Certainly he will not be missed; not too many accomplishments to remember. But he does fall on the category of the overachiever.
And I think that he would make a great coach. Lots of his wins were simply because he understood the game better than the other guy.
Does everyone know my Simon story, or should i tell it again? Pretty sure I helped him break into the top 15.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have no memory of your Simon story, so feel free to tell it again.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 12:54 am ...
Does everyone know my Simon story, or should i tell it again? Pretty sure I helped him break into the top 15.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please, do tell.

by ashkor87 an interesting thing about doubles is that the court, surface dont seem to matter much - maybe because the ball is in the air mostly..? or because nobody can actually overpower two players? so the game is about positioning, angles, volleys, returns..?

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 2:29 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 12:54 am ...
Does everyone know my Simon story, or should i tell it again? Pretty sure I helped him break into the top 15.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Please, do tell.

Forgot about this. In 2008, Simon was the #2 seed at the Indy tournament, ranked No. 25, but hardly anyone recognized him. He would practice right by the main concourse and no one would watch. I didn't really know who he was, either, despite his seeding.

I was a media volunteer so I'd sit or stand courtside for the matches sometimes. During Simon's semi vs. Querrey, the crowd was overwhelmingly for Querrey, of course. It was super hot and muggy (July) and Querrey was fading badly in the third set, wilting in the heat (Simon, of course, was fine). But he found himself close at 3-4, love-40 on Simon's serve. Every point of that game, the crowd cheered louder and louder, trying to drag Querrey over the finish line: break here and serve it out.

Simon stepped up to serve at love-40 and had to wait for the crowd to quiet down. I was standing courtside right at his baseline. While he waited, he happend to glance over toward me, and I felt so bad for this guy, seemingly all alone in a city he's probably never been to, no one recognizing him all week. I was wearing a media credential, so I wasn't supposed to cheer, but I couldn't help it. I gave him a fist pump and mouthed "come on!"

He turned around and served an ace. Served another ace. Got it to deuce. Tussled at deuce-ad, deuce-ad, and finally won the game, the match, and the title. A few days later in Canada, he beat Federer on a run to the semis, then won a title in the fall, and then beat Nadal in the Madrid semi (when it was a hard-court tournament) in a third-set breaker. This year was Simon's breakthrough.

Does any of that happen if I don't fist-pump at love-40 in Indy to give him some support amid a hostile crowd? Would he have had the confidence to beat Roger, then Rafa, both ranked No. 1 at the time of those matches?

I regretted it years later when he spoke out against equal prize money.

by ponchi101 Can you sit by my court side for my next match?

Great story. And maybe, maybe, it was indeed a case of butterfly effect.

by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:32 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 2:29 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 12:54 am ...
Does everyone know my Simon story, or should i tell it again? Pretty sure I helped him break into the top 15.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Please, do tell.
Forgot about this. In 2008, Simon was the #2 seed at the Indy tournament, ranked No. 25, but hardly anyone recognized him. He would practice right by the main concourse and no one would watch. I didn't really know who he was, either, despite his seeding.

I was a media volunteer so I'd sit or stand courtside for the matches sometimes. During Simon's semi vs. Querrey, the crowd was overwhelmingly for Querrey, of course. It was super hot and muggy (July) and Querrey was fading badly in the third set, wilting in the heat (Simon, of course, was fine). But he found himself close at 3-4, love-40 on Simon's serve. Every point of that game, the crowd cheered louder and louder, trying to drag Querrey over the finish line: break here and serve it out.

Simon stepped up to serve at love-40 and had to wait for the crowd to quiet down. I was standing courtside right at his baseline. While he waited, he happend to glance over toward me, and I felt so bad for this guy, seemingly all alone in a city he's probably never been to, no one recognizing him all week. I was wearing a media credential, so I wasn't supposed to cheer, but I couldn't help it. I gave him a fist pump and mouthed "come on!"

He turned around and served an ace. Served another ace. Got it to deuce. Tussled at deuce-ad, deuce-ad, and finally won the game, the match, and the title. A few days later in Canada, he beat Federer on a run to the semis, then won a title in the fall, and then beat Nadal in the Madrid semi (when it was a hard-court tournament) in a third-set breaker. This year was Simon's breakthrough.

Does any of that happen if I don't fist-pump at love-40 in Indy to give him some support amid a hostile crowd? Would he have had the confidence to beat Roger, then Rafa, both ranked No. 1 at the time of those matches?

I regretted it years later when he spoke out against equal prize money.

Lovely story!! Kindness to strangers!

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:Can you sit by my court side for my next match?
Great story. And maybe, maybe, it was indeed a case of butterfly effect.

It doesn’t work for my own matches, so….

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by JazzNU

by JazzNU ^^ Roger Federer/Tony Godsick Blueprint

by ponchi101 She also says that the company may have one or two other players signed. I guess she is going the Boutique way.

by JTContinental I've always found Simon to be chauvinistic and gross, and I will not miss him.

by ti-amie

by Owendonovan

JTContinental wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:16 pm I've always found Simon to be chauvinistic and gross, and I will not miss him.

Agree.

by Deuce .

Megan - if Simon doesn't mention you in his post-career autobiography, sue him!

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:41 pm

^ Stanislas comes across as pretty neutral - kind of a 'vanilla' player. The only thing that really stands out about him is his nice one-handed backhand.
But he does seem to have a good rapport with fans... I saw him once at a pretty big tournament hitting with fans. It was at the end of a practice session, and he invited a few random fans to come onto the court to hit with him using one of his racquets. The fans would hop over the short fence one by one and hit with Stan for about 3 minutes each.
There was no interaction other than the hitting - and the fans saying 'Thanks' - it was just a nice gesture on Stan's part. It's rare that you see pro players do this with fans.

This was about 3 or 4 years ago when Stan was still in the top 20. And it wasn't at 7pm or something when the other practice courts are empty, and all the fans are watching matches on the main courts - this was middle of the day with a bunch of fans around the practice courts.

by ashkor87 There is a report in a British news agency that the ATP and WTA are considering withdrawing ranking points from Wimbledon..the decision is being left to the players' reps, led by Federer and Nadal in the ATP..
I would certainly support such a move. If a tournament, any tournament, bars players for no reason other than nationality, it should not be allowed to call itself an Open tournament. Indeed, I would go so far as to urge the tours to schedule other tournaments that week, make Wimbledon just an exho..what do folks here think?

by Liamvalid

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 7:18 am There is a report in a British news agency that the ATP and WTA are considering withdrawing ranking points from Wimbledon..the decision is being left to the players' reps, led by Federer and Nadal in the ATP..
I would certainly support such a move. If a tournament, any tournament, bars players for no reason other than nationality, it should not be allowed to call itself an Open tournament. Indeed, I would go so far as to urge the tours to schedule other tournaments that week, make Wimbledon just an exho..what do folks here think?

I’ll be amazed if anyone boycotts Wimbledon, ranking points or not. There’s too much money on the line (and history on the line for some of them). The other UK tournaments will suffer though. I still feel from what I’ve read that the ban has come from the Government rather than the tournament. Even though I’m against the ban myself, reading through online forums it does seem a lot of people agree with it and see it as another necessary sanction

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 7:18 am There is a report in a British news agency that the ATP and WTA are considering withdrawing ranking points from Wimbledon..the decision is being left to the players' reps, led by Federer and Nadal in the ATP..
I would certainly support such a move. If a tournament, any tournament, bars players for no reason other than nationality, it should not be allowed to call itself an Open tournament. Indeed, I would go so far as to urge the tours to schedule other tournaments that week, make Wimbledon just an exho..what do folks here think?

The dates wouldn't match. We are too close to be able to schedule new tournaments.
Actually, you are right that if some players cannot participate in a tournament, it should not be allowed to call itself OPEN. But Wimbledon is not an OPEN; it is almost a club tournament which invites players. So that move, again, would not work on the AELTC. All the other tournaments, yes.
I would say that the players have to make a decision and take a stand BEFORE RG starts. Either accept this decision (which would be lousy) or make it clear what they will do.

by ashkor87

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 11:44 am
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 7:18 am There is a report in a British news agency that the ATP and WTA are considering withdrawing ranking points from Wimbledon..the decision is being left to the players' reps, led by Federer and Nadal in the ATP..
I would certainly support such a move. If a tournament, any tournament, bars players for no reason other than nationality, it should not be allowed to call itself an Open tournament. Indeed, I would go so far as to urge the tours to schedule other tournaments that week, make Wimbledon just an exho..what do folks here think?
I’ll be amazed if anyone boycotts Wimbledon, ranking points or not. There’s too much money on the line (and history on the line for some of them). The other UK tournaments will suffer though. I still feel from what I’ve read that the ban has come from the Government rather than the tournament. Even though I’m against the ban myself, reading through online forums it does seem a lot of people agree with it and see it as another necessary sanction

Yes but history with an asterisk

by ti-amie For some reason the paywall didn't work on on phone but on my laptop it does.

by ti-amie Marta Kostyuk left the court with the trainer for a MTO and never returned. The physio came back to tell the chair that she retired. Her partner, Ruse, shook hands with Pavs and Kudermetova.

The reason for her retirement/abandonment of the match after she and Ruse dropped the first set 1-6 has not been given. Some fans are arguing that the reason she did this was because playing the Russian team upset her and that she couldn't focus.

Ever since Anisimova got away with walking off court and abandoning her match there seems to be an epidemic of this behavior.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 8:32 pm ...

Ever since Anisimova got away with walking off court and abandoning her match there seems to be an epidemic of this behavior.

And it is becoming noticeable.

by JazzNU

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 11:44 am
I’ll be amazed if anyone boycotts Wimbledon, ranking points or not. There’s too much money on the line (and history on the line for some of them). The other UK tournaments will suffer though. I still feel from what I’ve read that the ban has come from the Government rather than the tournament. Even though I’m against the ban myself, reading through online forums it does seem a lot of people agree with it and see it as another necessary sanction

Where are you looking? UK Forums? That seems to be the place where the support for this is the strongest. I haven't seen massive support for Wimbledon's ban, most agree with BJK. Some of the tennis writers have put up polls and the ones with a largely UK audience are the ones that come back with support for this, others do not.

As for the money. It'll be interesting to see what happens. If Wimbledon turns into an exhibition tournament and not a real grand slam, will the money hold where it is? Will all the sponsors remain? Doesn't mean it wouldn't still be an attractive amount that many players would want, but it's not hard to imagine them not drawing the same field if it does become less of a prestige tournament and more of an exhibition.

And if this is really coming from the Government, this feels like a very dumb way to go about it imo.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 8:32 pm Marta Kostyuk left the court with the trainer for a MTO and never returned. The physio came back to tell the chair that she retired. Her partner, Ruse, shook hands with Pavs and Kudermetova.

The reason for her retirement/abandonment of the match after she and Ruse dropped the first set 1-6 has not been given. Some fans are arguing that the reason she did this was because playing the Russian team upset her and that she couldn't focus.

So, she was unaware of her opponent before the match commenced /s

I'm sympathetic, but for me, she's one of the ones taking things too far and should take a break like Elina if it's becoming too much to handle at once.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 8:32 pm
Ever since Anisimova got away with walking off court and abandoning her match there seems to be an epidemic of this behavior.

Anisimova is a different case to me entirely, one that fans and media can take credit for creating honestly.

by ti-amie

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 8:32 pm Marta Kostyuk left the court with the trainer for a MTO and never returned. The physio came back to tell the chair that she retired. Her partner, Ruse, shook hands with Pavs and Kudermetova.

The reason for her retirement/abandonment of the match after she and Ruse dropped the first set 1-6 has not been given. Some fans are arguing that the reason she did this was because playing the Russian team upset her and that she couldn't focus.

Ever since Anisimova got away with walking off court and abandoning her match there seems to be an epidemic of this behavior.

Yes - and it's more a WTA thing than it is an ATP thing at this point.
But when the best example of 'you play until the final point, regardless' retires - that being Mr. Nadal, who once again today showed that the word 'quit' is not part of his vocabulary, even when he's at about 50% on the court - once he retires, I think the in-match retirement problem will creep its way more and more into the ATP.

It's at the point now where the players are so incredibly spoiled that they will quit unless absolutely everything is perfect. Players of the past must find this to be absolutely sickening. And it's definitely moving in the wrong direction.

by ponchi101 I did a bit of a search on-line, looking for data on retirements during matches. I was only able to find this article, and you have to notice these data are from 2013.
I will see if I can find something else.
Trends and Perspective on WTA Retirements and Withdrawals

by Deuce I think I posted this a month or so ago (but I'm not sure if I posted it)...
In any case - this is from just one tournament this year (Miami).

30 or 40 years ago, this would be about the total for an entire season...

by JazzNU

by ponchi101 Another great achievement.
I say Connors record is safe. 274 wins for Novak means 5 seasons of 50+ wins. Rafa will not get there either, Roger will fall just short.

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat May 14, 2022 9:03 pm Another great achievement.
I say Connors record is safe. 274 wins for Novak means 5 seasons of 50+ wins. Rafa will not get there either, Roger will fall just short.

You don't think Federer will win 24 more matches? I think he will just to get the record.

by ponchi101 I think that unfortunately, Roger will play Basel this fall as a farewell. He is 41. We have to admit that, and I wonder if he will.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:I think that unfortunately, Roger will play Basel this fall as a farewell. He is 41. We have to admit that, and I wonder if he will.

I think he is totally accepting of his reality. I’m sure he has thought about this a lot more than anyone else and is prepared to stop if he can’t get healthy enough to compete. He has always had a great perspective.

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by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 12:32 am
ponchi101 wrote:I think that unfortunately, Roger will play Basel this fall as a farewell. He is 41. We have to admit that, and I wonder if he will.
I think he is totally accepting of his reality. I’m sure he has thought about this a lot more than anyone else and is prepared to stop if he can’t get healthy enough to compete. He has always had a great perspective.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It should be at Wimbledon but he is too modest for that, I suspect...

by Deuce Yes, it would be nice, and fitting, for him to 'say goodbye' at Wimbledon. And I think he'd probably prefer to do that, under normal circumstances. But I don't think he'd be physically capable of playing there this year - would he be?

And even if he would be, with the Russian/Belarusian cloud hanging over Wimbledon this year, it would not be a good setting for Roger's curtain call.

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 1:06 am ...
It should be at Wimbledon but he is too modest for that, I suspect...

His injury happened on grass, and maybe he and his team have decided that coming back on that same surface can be risky.
Retiring at home will be fitting too. I just hope he will let the tournament end before an announcement. Or, of course, for some good luck to happen and for him to win it. Retire holding a trophy.

by Deuce This has been in the back of my mind for a while - Marie Bouzkova has a rather unique facial appearance, and it really reminded me of someone - but I couldn't figure out who that someone was.
Today, I finally got it...

I believe Marie Bouzkova used to be Meghann Shaughnessy

.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote:This has been in the back of my mind for a while - Marie Bouzkova has a rather unique facial appearance, and it really reminded me of someone - but I couldn't figure out who that someone was.
Today, I finally got it...

I believe Marie Bouzkova used to be Meghann Shaughnessy .

Totally forgot about Meghann Shaughnessy! They do look alike.

by Deuce Iga is obviously a very good player...
But WHY is she so good? WHY is she beating everyone - and beating them rather easily?
I don't see that she has one particular or obvious weapon or strength in her game... She's not hitting aces left and right... She's not overpowering anyone... She doesn't have the most variety on the tour...

Maybe she's just slightly better than everyone else at all elements combined?

One thing I do notice with her is that when she wins tournaments, the emotion suddenly pours out of her as soon as she clinches match point. I've seen that a few times now.
And so it seems that she is so focused on the match - and perhaps even so focused on every individual point - that she's not at all thinking of the occasion. Maybe she's not thinking 'If I win this match, I'm in the Semi-Final', or 'If I win this match, I'm in the Final', or 'If I win this match, I win the tournament'.

The way that the emotion is suddenly released and erupts out of her after winning match point rather strongly suggests that she is so incredibly locked in and focused that she isn't affected by the nervousness and anxiety which typically comes with thinking of the occasion, which creates pressure, etc. She seems to be able to put the occasion completely out of her mind and thoughts.
And maybe that's her 'secret weapon'; maybe the primary reason that she is so dominant is because she can do this significantly better than anyone else can.

by meganfernandez Yes, it appears that she is making all the right decisions. She is extremely clear-headed and her mind is in the exact right spot for most of the match, if not all of the match. Her intensity and her strategy are perfectly calibrated.

Also, her defense to offense is incredible. But mostly she's taking the ball early and controlling the court, smothering the opponent. And her forehand is pretty big. She attacks with it extremely well. The weight of her shot might be hard to see on TV, but it's a big weapon. We shouldn't underestimate the quality of her actual game - the stroke production, movement, and anticipation.

On top of all that, now she is supremely confident, at least on slower courts. Might change on fast courts. She might not be able to get her teeth into points as fast.

Deuce wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 2:55 am Iga is obviously a very good player...
But WHY is she so good? WHY is she beating everyone - and beating them rather easily?
I don't see that she has one particular or obvious weapon or strength in her game... She's not hitting aces left and right... She's not overpowering anyone... She doesn't have the most variety on the tour...

Maybe she's just slightly better than everyone else at all elements combined?

One thing I do notice with her is that when she wins tournaments, the emotion suddenly pours out of her as soon as she clinches match point. I've seen that a few times now.
And so it seems that she is so focused on the match - and perhaps even so focused on every individual point - that she's not at all thinking of the occasion. Maybe she's not thinking 'If I win this match, I'm in the Semi-Final', or 'If I win this match, I'm in the Final', or 'If I win this match, I win the tournament'.

The way that the emotion is suddenly released and erupts out of her after winning match point rather strongly suggests that she is so incredibly locked in and focused that she isn't affected by the nervousness and anxiety which typically comes with thinking of the occasion, which creates pressure, etc. She seems to be able to put the occasion completely out of her mind and thoughts.
And maybe that's her 'secret weapon'; maybe the primary reason that she is so dominant is because she can do this significantly better than anyone else can.

by JazzNU

Britain's Laura Robson retires from tennis with ongoing injuries

Britain's former junior Wimbledon champion and Olympic mixed doubles silver medallist Laura Robson announced her retirement on Monday due to persistent injury problems.

A former world No. 27, Robson lifted the junior crown at the grasscourt Grand Slam as a 14-year-old in 2008 and followed up her success with an Olympic medal partnering Andy Murray at London 2012.

The 28-year-old, who made the fourth round at the U.S. Open in 2012 and Wimbledon the following year, had a wrist operation in 2014 ago before three hip surgeries derailed her career.

She was last in action at an ITF tournament in 2019.

"I went through every possibility of rehab and of surgery," Robson told the BBC. "I had another hip surgery and probably did the best rehab block of my life ... and then the second time I hit, I just knew.

"It feels weird to say out loud, but I'm done, I'm retired. I've sort of known that for a while because of what I was told by the doctors last year, but it took me so long to say it to myself, which is why it took me so long to say it officially."

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... g-injuries

by JazzNU

by ponchi101 Murray recently posted that tennis was the most brutal of sports, and "joked"/commented with fellow players that for a non-contact sport, it really puts a lot of demands on the body.
The number of players that retire simply because their bodies cannot put up with the physical demands bears him out a bit. Robson is only 28 CeCe Bellis also retired recently because her body could not stand it. No need to mention Emma, and two greats (Roger and Serena) plus a very good player (Delpo) are sidelined and very close to retirement, with injuries that have put them aside for considerable time. Add to all this how tough it is to come back from certain injuries (Raonic, Thiem, Stan, Andy himself) and well,
I had never had a long injury other than twisted ankles or a muscle tear until 2 years ago, when I busted my elbow simply because of playing a 2 setter (90 minutes match). Sure, I am an old foggy but it was not as if I had never played the sport before. But there is a reason why we have an "injury" topic.
Too bad for Robson.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 6:22 pm Murray recently posted that tennis was the most brutal of sports, and "joked"/commented with fellow players that for a non-contact sport, it really puts a lot of demands on the body.
The number of players that retire simply because their bodies cannot put up with the physical demands bears him out a bit. Robson is only 28 CeCe Bellis also retired recently because her body could not stand it. No need to mention Emma, and two greats (Roger and Serena) plus a very good player (Delpo) are sidelined and very close to retirement, with injuries that have put them aside for considerable time. Add to all this how tough it is to come back from certain injuries (Raonic, Thiem, Stan, Andy himself) and well,
I had never had a long injury other than twisted ankles or a muscle tear until 2 years ago, when I busted my elbow simply because of playing a 2 setter (90 minutes match). Sure, I am an old foggy but it was not as if I had never played the sport before. But there is a reason why we have an "injury" topic.
Too bad for Robson.

For sure, tennis puts a lot of strain on the body - and the whole body. It's extremely dynamic movement. I interviewed a top online tennis instructor this weekend. He knows exactly how to hit each shot and how to show someone else, frame by frame (he does a lot of video analysis). But that doesn't mean he can do it perfectly himself. He has a rotator cuff injury because he doesn't uncoil into his one-handed backhand property, causing him to use his arm too much. After cranking on the ball over and over while improving his backhand, the rotator cuff finally gave out. He was putting too much strain on it. Every tennis player has these issues, amateur or pro.

by Deuce

Deuce wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 2:55 am Iga is obviously a very good player...
But WHY is she so good? WHY is she beating everyone - and beating them rather easily?
I don't see that she has one particular or obvious weapon or strength in her game... She's not hitting aces left and right... She's not overpowering anyone... She doesn't have the most variety on the tour...

Maybe she's just slightly better than everyone else at all elements combined?

One thing I do notice with her is that when she wins tournaments, the emotion suddenly pours out of her as soon as she clinches match point. I've seen that a few times now.
And so it seems that she is so focused on the match - and perhaps even so focused on every individual point - that she's not at all thinking of the occasion. Maybe she's not thinking 'If I win this match, I'm in the Semi-Final', or 'If I win this match, I'm in the Final', or 'If I win this match, I win the tournament'.

The way that the emotion is suddenly released and erupts out of her after winning match point rather strongly suggests that she is so incredibly locked in and focused that she isn't affected by the nervousness and anxiety which typically comes with thinking of the occasion, which creates pressure, etc. She seems to be able to put the occasion completely out of her mind and thoughts.
And maybe that's her 'secret weapon'; maybe the primary reason that she is so dominant is because she can do this significantly better than anyone else can.

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 2:49 pm Yes, it appears that she is making all the right decisions. She is extremely clear-headed and her mind is in the exact right spot for most of the match, if not all of the match. Her intensity and her strategy are perfectly calibrated.

Also, her defense to offense is incredible. But mostly she's taking the ball early and controlling the court, smothering the opponent. And her forehand is pretty big. She attacks with it extremely well. The weight of her shot might be hard to see on TV, but it's a big weapon. We shouldn't underestimate the quality of her actual game - the stroke production, movement, and anticipation.

On top of all that, now she is supremely confident, at least on slower courts. Might change on fast courts. She might not be able to get her teeth into points as fast.

That may all be so... but I maintain that the reason she is able to execute the things you mention is because she is so incredibly focused and is not distracted by the nervousness, anxiety, and pressure which comes from thinking about the occasion in the way that most other players are.
She might be the best example of a player being in 'the zone' that we've seen in a while.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 11:11 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 2:55 am Iga is obviously a very good player...
But WHY is she so good? WHY is she beating everyone - and beating them rather easily?
I don't see that she has one particular or obvious weapon or strength in her game... She's not hitting aces left and right... She's not overpowering anyone... She doesn't have the most variety on the tour...

Maybe she's just slightly better than everyone else at all elements combined?

One thing I do notice with her is that when she wins tournaments, the emotion suddenly pours out of her as soon as she clinches match point. I've seen that a few times now.
And so it seems that she is so focused on the match - and perhaps even so focused on every individual point - that she's not at all thinking of the occasion. Maybe she's not thinking 'If I win this match, I'm in the Semi-Final', or 'If I win this match, I'm in the Final', or 'If I win this match, I win the tournament'.

The way that the emotion is suddenly released and erupts out of her after winning match point rather strongly suggests that she is so incredibly locked in and focused that she isn't affected by the nervousness and anxiety which typically comes with thinking of the occasion, which creates pressure, etc. She seems to be able to put the occasion completely out of her mind and thoughts.
And maybe that's her 'secret weapon'; maybe the primary reason that she is so dominant is because she can do this significantly better than anyone else can.

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 2:49 pm Yes, it appears that she is making all the right decisions. She is extremely clear-headed and her mind is in the exact right spot for most of the match, if not all of the match. Her intensity and her strategy are perfectly calibrated.

Also, her defense to offense is incredible. But mostly she's taking the ball early and controlling the court, smothering the opponent. And her forehand is pretty big. She attacks with it extremely well. The weight of her shot might be hard to see on TV, but it's a big weapon. We shouldn't underestimate the quality of her actual game - the stroke production, movement, and anticipation.

On top of all that, now she is supremely confident, at least on slower courts. Might change on fast courts. She might not be able to get her teeth into points as fast.
That may all be so... but I maintain that the reason she is able to execute the things you mention is because she is so incredibly focused and is not distracted by the nervousness, anxiety, and pressure which comes from thinking about the occasion in the way that most other players are.
She might be the best example of a player being in 'the zone' that we've seen in a while.

For sure, this is baked into the focused part. I'm sure she has nerves and anxiety, but she has learned to manage them and use them to her benefit. I'd say the same of anyone who reaches her level.

I find myself wondering if we focus on the mental aspect with women more than we do men. In looking for a reason for Iga's performance, we are focused on the mental/emotional and not the game. Of course they're connected, but people tend to analyze men (first, primarily) based on their games - the body part - and not the head part. With women, I think it's different. You might say that anything a player does with their body is related to what's going on in their mind, and yes, for sure, but we tend to stop at the body (the physical part of the game) when talking about men. We don't put the emotional/mental analysis before the physical.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:51 pm ...

For sure, this is baked into the focused part. I'm sure she has nerves and anxiety, but she has learned to manage them and use them to her benefit. I'd say the same of anyone who reaches her level.

I find myself wondering if we focus on the mental aspect with women more than we do men. In looking for a reason for Iga's performance, we are focused on the mental/emotional and not the game. Of course they're connected, but people tend to analyze men (first, primarily) based on their games - the body part - and not the head part. With women, I think it's different. You might say that anything a player does with their body is related to what's going on in their mind, and yes, for sure, but we tend to stop at the body (the physical part of the game) when talking about men. We don't put the emotional/mental analysis before the physical.

Nerves I think can be handled. Anxiety is when nerves get out of control. If you have nerves, you can clamp then down and play well. If you have anxiety, you are toast.
I never thought about it that way, until I read your post. Indeed, they are two different things.
I remember that Pam Shriver once said there was a difference. Nerves was having to go to the bathroom before going on court against Graf. Anxiety was having to go to the bathroom AGAIN after the first game.

Something else about Iga. I noticed on Sunday that her FH is not completely textbook; she has a bit of an odd motion, yet it is one of her weapons. She can unleash it very well. Then I noticed another thing: she plays with a Technifibre racquet that it similar to another strange FH player, Medvedev. Surely a coincidence, but maybe the racquet lets them do that?
And you know where I stand about the mental aspects of the game.

by JazzNU

by ponchi101 At 40 slams per decade, he was one SLAM SHORT of making tow straight decades of grand slam appearances.
I know, I know, I know. It would be unfair. He is not worthy (I guess

). There are other players to consider. But give him a WC. Let him make it 80 in a row.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:35 pm At 40 slams per decade, he was one SLAM SHORT of making tow straight decades of grand slam appearances.
I know, I know, I know. It would be unfair. He is not worthy (I guess ). There are other players to consider. But give him a WC. Let him make it 80 in a row.

Feel like he was a no brainer to give a WC to so this wasn't in question.

by ponchi101

JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:56 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:35 pm At 40 slams per decade, he was one SLAM SHORT of making tow straight decades of grand slam appearances.
I know, I know, I know. It would be unfair. He is not worthy (I guess ). There are other players to consider. But give him a WC. Let him make it 80 in a row.
Feel like he was a no brainer to give a WC to so this wasn't in question.

Is he getting one? He can't now, right? He played the qualies.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 9:01 pm
Is he getting one? He can't now, right? He played the qualies.

I don't know the rules on this, but it seems like that wouldn't be allowed. But given the quality of the French WCs in recent years, I'd be good with an exception being made.

by 3mlm

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:35 pm At 40 slams per decade, he was one SLAM SHORT of making tow straight decades of grand slam appearances.
I know, I know, I know. It would be unfair. He is not worthy (I guess ). There are other players to consider. But give him a WC. Let him make it 80 in a row.

He actually made two straight decades of grand slam appearances. The reason it's only 79 slams is that there was no Wimbledon in 2020.

by ponchi101

3mlm wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 9:53 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:35 pm At 40 slams per decade, he was one SLAM SHORT of making tow straight decades of grand slam appearances.
I know, I know, I know. It would be unfair. He is not worthy (I guess ). There are other players to consider. But give him a WC. Let him make it 80 in a row.
He actually made two straight decades of grand slam appearances. The reason it's only 79 slams is that there was no Wimbledon in 2020.

good point.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:51 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 11:11 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 2:55 am Iga is obviously a very good player...
But WHY is she so good? WHY is she beating everyone - and beating them rather easily?
I don't see that she has one particular or obvious weapon or strength in her game... She's not hitting aces left and right... She's not overpowering anyone... She doesn't have the most variety on the tour...

Maybe she's just slightly better than everyone else at all elements combined?

One thing I do notice with her is that when she wins tournaments, the emotion suddenly pours out of her as soon as she clinches match point. I've seen that a few times now.
And so it seems that she is so focused on the match - and perhaps even so focused on every individual point - that she's not at all thinking of the occasion. Maybe she's not thinking 'If I win this match, I'm in the Semi-Final', or 'If I win this match, I'm in the Final', or 'If I win this match, I win the tournament'.

The way that the emotion is suddenly released and erupts out of her after winning match point rather strongly suggests that she is so incredibly locked in and focused that she isn't affected by the nervousness and anxiety which typically comes with thinking of the occasion, which creates pressure, etc. She seems to be able to put the occasion completely out of her mind and thoughts.
And maybe that's her 'secret weapon'; maybe the primary reason that she is so dominant is because she can do this significantly better than anyone else can.

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 2:49 pm Yes, it appears that she is making all the right decisions. She is extremely clear-headed and her mind is in the exact right spot for most of the match, if not all of the match. Her intensity and her strategy are perfectly calibrated.

Also, her defense to offense is incredible. But mostly she's taking the ball early and controlling the court, smothering the opponent. And her forehand is pretty big. She attacks with it extremely well. The weight of her shot might be hard to see on TV, but it's a big weapon. We shouldn't underestimate the quality of her actual game - the stroke production, movement, and anticipation.

On top of all that, now she is supremely confident, at least on slower courts. Might change on fast courts. She might not be able to get her teeth into points as fast.
That may all be so... but I maintain that the reason she is able to execute the things you mention is because she is so incredibly focused and is not distracted by the nervousness, anxiety, and pressure which comes from thinking about the occasion in the way that most other players are.
She might be the best example of a player being in 'the zone' that we've seen in a while.
For sure, this is baked into the focused part. I'm sure she has nerves and anxiety, but she has learned to manage them and use them to her benefit. I'd say the same of anyone who reaches her level.

I find myself wondering if we focus on the mental aspect with women more than we do men. In looking for a reason for Iga's performance, we are focused on the mental/emotional and not the game. Of course they're connected, but people tend to analyze men (first, primarily) based on their games - the body part - and not the head part. With women, I think it's different. You might say that anything a player does with their body is related to what's going on in their mind, and yes, for sure, but we tend to stop at the body (the physical part of the game) when talking about men. We don't put the emotional/mental analysis before the physical.

What you say about the difference in 'analyzing' the men and the women may be true to a degree... but I have mentioned plenty of times about Nadal's focus, tenacity, drive, grit, etc. I've also mentioned the same about Djokovic - though to a somewhat lesser degree (because I feel that Nadal's drive, etc. is stronger than Djokovic's).
I and others have mentioned the psychological weaknesses of Kyrgios, Tsitsipas, etc. many times. I've mentioned the same about other male players like Arazi (I even mentioned it to Arazi himself - and he just shrugged his shoulders as if to say "I'm powerless against it").
And I've seen numerous mentions of male players 'choking', etc.

And so, while the psychological elements of female players might be slightly more often mentioned, I don't think the difference in the times it's mentioned is very significant.

by JazzNU

by JazzNU ^^ No points for the WTA as well. Not sure about WTA events in UK yet, I'll post if I see something from someone reputable.

by JazzNU

JazzNU wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 7:06 pm ^^ No points for the WTA as well. Not sure about WTA events in UK yet, I'll post if I see something from someone reputable.

Here we go. Same as ATP, but also sanctioning the UK tournaments and placing them on probation.

by Suliso I wonder what it means for the rankings. Likely Medvedev #1, Berretini, Sabalenka and Pliskova out of the top 10.

by ponchi101 Yes. There is something that I don't like about that decision. It sort of punishes more people than what would seem fair.
Now, let's see how many players do not go to Wimbledon. Tournaments outside of the UK will have the longest entry list in all their history, but Wimbledon will be immune to this. Novak especially could not care less about the points. Probably gunning for 22, he would go even if it meant losing all his ATP points.

by Suliso Almost all will go. There will be no replacing money they offer, certainly not in those weeks.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 7:29 pm Yes. There is something that I don't like about that decision. It sort of punishes more people than what would seem fair.
Now, let's see how many players do not go to Wimbledon. Tournaments outside of the UK will have the longest entry list in all their history, but Wimbledon will be immune to this. Novak especially could not care less about the points. Probably gunning for 22, he would go even if it meant losing all his ATP points.

He definitely cares about points, he's proudly boasted about being #1 entirely to many times to pretend otherwise. He cares about getting GS titles more. Awarding him RG is very premature.

by ponchi101 I said probably, and you know I am hoping a major jinx

Nothing would make me happier than him losing.
But he looks very solid at the moment.
If you tell me what to pick, 75% chance of Nadal winning, or 100% chance of Novak losing, well, Rafa, you're on your own.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 7:29 pm Yes. There is something that I don't like about that decision. It sort of punishes more people than what would seem fair.
Now, let's see how many players do not go to Wimbledon. Tournaments outside of the UK will have the longest entry list in all their history, but Wimbledon will be immune to this. Novak especially could not care less about the points. Probably gunning for 22, he would go even if it meant losing all his ATP points.

But will it count as 22?! I bet he won't go..solidarity!!Djokovic is a man of principle, which is something many people don't give him credit for..you may agree with him or not but one must admire his spine...!

by Deuce From another thread, but my question is more suited to this thread...

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 8:24 am Am happy to see Sania playing and doing consistently well in doubles...the best female player India ever produced...

Who's the best MALE player India has ever produced?

Vijay Amritraj?
Ramesh Krishnan?
Leander Paes?
Mahesh Bhupathi?

by ashkor87 Ramanathan Krishnan, Ramesh' father

by Deuce

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 5:20 am Ramanathan Krishnan, Ramesh' father

^ Before my time, but an interesting answer.

by ashkor87 He was a contemporary of Laver and Fraser, pioneer of the touch game.beautiful to watch...

by the Moz I go with Paes

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 12:51 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 7:29 pm Yes. There is something that I don't like about that decision. It sort of punishes more people than what would seem fair.
Now, let's see how many players do not go to Wimbledon. Tournaments outside of the UK will have the longest entry list in all their history, but Wimbledon will be immune to this. Novak especially could not care less about the points. Probably gunning for 22, he would go even if it meant losing all his ATP points.
But will it count as 22?! I bet he won't go..solidarity!!Djokovic is a man of principle, which is something many people don't give him credit for..you may agree with him or not but one must admire his spine...!

I am not sure if you are joking, or the sarcasm is too exquisitely tuned, or you suffer from that same disease I suffer from, emoji-challenged.
But I say there is no way he does not go. The ATP can say he will get all his ranking points taken off and he would still go.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 4:46 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 12:51 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 7:29 pm Yes. There is something that I don't like about that decision. It sort of punishes more people than what would seem fair.
Now, let's see how many players do not go to Wimbledon. Tournaments outside of the UK will have the longest entry list in all their history, but Wimbledon will be immune to this. Novak especially could not care less about the points. Probably gunning for 22, he would go even if it meant losing all his ATP points.
But will it count as 22?! I bet he won't go..solidarity!!Djokovic is a man of principle, which is something many people don't give him credit for..you may agree with him or not but one must admire his spine...!
I am not sure if you are joking, or the sarcasm is too exquisitely tuned, or you suffer from that same disease I suffer from, emoji-challenged.
But I say there is no way he does not go. The ATP can say he will get all his ranking points taken off and he would still go.

But it is a very intriguing question about whether Wimbledon would count as #21 (or #22 or #23 for Djokovic or Nadal should one of them win this Roland Garros) if some of the top players are not at Wimbledon - whether through the unfair ban, or through boycott, or through disinterest because of no points being awarded.
It might turn out to be the biggest asterisk in the book...

by ti-amie FORMER SUCCESSFUL MENTOR TO JUSTINE HENIN, CARLOS RODRIGUEZ IS STRUGGLING TO GET EXCITED ABOUT THE CURRENT WOMEN'S TOUR ON THE EVE OF THE ROLAND-GARROS TOURNAMENT.

Sitting on the terrace of the Justine Henin Academy, Carlos Rodriguez's eyes sparkle and he offers a passionate speech when talking about tennis. The little yellow ball, the former successful coach of the Rochefortoise, has it in his blood. This passion, which he has been trying to instil in young people since his return to Belgium, largely explains his rise to the top of world tennis. An outstanding technician who has enabled Justine Henin to measure up to girls who are bigger and more powerful than her, the Belgian-Argentinian still follows the women's circuit very closely. A circuit where, however, he no longer finds himself. A circuit where he sees girls wasting their talent because they offer a stereotypical tennis. Why is that? He tries to explain it to us, to you, before the bell rings for the 2022 edition of Roland Garros.

Mr. Carlos Rodriguez, how do you see women's tennis today?

"Not very happy. Barty's departure has taken a toll on my morale. I'm a lover of the game and with all due respect to the girls, the athletes, who are currently on the tour, I don't understand what they are playing at. It's hard for me to see in a WTA match what the tactics are and what the strategic approach is to create something. It's a waste because I see that the players are able to offer more than what they show. We limit ourselves to very simple things; sometimes it looks like arm wrestling. It's a shame to limit women's tennis to that. When you see someone like Barty playing tennis, she doesn't just "hit the ball", you think that's going to create a buzz. With her leaving, I wonder what the future will be like."

Is that where the coach has to step in?

"I went back to the tour for two months and realised that the coach has become an accessory and not the cornerstone of the relationship with the player. Often the coach doesn't have much to say. There are so many people around the players that in the end you don't know who is doing what. Not to mention the parents, who are once coaches, once physiotherapists, and then become psychologists. It's all a big mess. And the coach is badly taken because he is paid by the player or her parents and he can't say much.

Wasn't that the case on the tour when you were coaching Justine Henin?

"No, because there was a respect for the coach that doesn't exist today. When the coach spoke, we listened. Today, we don't care and if it's not him, we'll take someone else. We pay him badly, we ask him to go to the four corners of the world and when we don't feel like it anymore, we throw him out overnight. This didn't happen as much before and now it's commonplace.

In Justine's time, do you think there was more tennis on the circuit?

"There's no question about it. The level of the top 10 twenty years ago is ten times higher than the top 10 today. If you go back and look at a French Open or Wimbledon draw from 2001, 2002 or 2003, you'll find seven or eight great champions in the last 16. Now it's a different player who wins every Grand Slam and it's not especially a top 10 player. That's not good. We hear that the general level of players has improved. That's not true. Because the top 10 are playing less well and are more irregular and all the players are playing the same way, you think that the top 50 have come closer to the top 10. But in fact, the opposite is true. The top 10 has moved closer to the top 50. That's what happened; we have to stop lying to ourselves. I'm not judging this situation, it's just an observation."

Do you still watch WTA matches?

"Very little. I watch the matches of the girl who trains at Justine's Academy, Clara Tauson, in whom I have a lot of faith. Olivier (Editor's note: Jeunehomme) is in charge of her and I help her a little bit. I also watch matches for my work. But I'm not interested because I don't see anything that affects me. There are some interesting young players in terms of creativity and real tennis. But I realise that during their training, doors are closed to them and they are directed towards a stereotyped game. You hit hard once, I hit hard twice. For me, that's not the right way to look at it. Men's tennis, on the other hand, is much more interesting. I love it."

Do you see a girl being able to dominate the tour?

"I feel like it's going to be very random. It goes beyond just tennis. The girls who are currently in the top spots in the world are so surrounded that they are cut off. They don't have charisma or personality. Back then, when Justine, Kim or the Williams sisters spoke, we listened. Today, do you see the same thing? We no longer identify with the best players on the circuit. The people around these players have taken up so much space since their childhood that they are vulnerable. The media exposure is huge and the protection even more so. This creates an explosive cocktail. The best example is Osaka."

Do you understand that this pressure is immense and that players crack?

"Of course I do. I feel sorry for the girls who are playing now. They are facing a real pain."

In your opinion, have girls like Leylah Fernandez, Emma Raducanu or Cori Gauff finished their training?

"Some of them had the misfortune to arrive too quickly, too early at a very high level. And they didn't have the environment, the training and the experience to support such a cataclysm in their lives. I'm in a good position to talk about this because when I inherited Li Na after she won the French Open, it was the same story. I had to help her out of that. When a player wins a Grand Slam but she doesn't know how she did it, that's a big problem. It's impossible for her to have something clear and precise to build on. You are working on quicksand. Raducanu and Fernandez know this problem. I hope I'm wrong but I think it could be a long and painful journey for both players."

If you had to put a coin on one player to win the French Open, who would it be placed on?

SWIATEK. She is young, plays well and has digested her first Grand Slam win at Roland Garros in 2020. Maybe that win came too early for her, so I say she's digested it now. The Pole has the most weapons in her arsenal to win in Paris. On top of that, she's very comfortable on clay."

When you think of the French Open, what is the first thing that comes to mind?

"Three words associated: clay, Justine and Carlos. Until I was 18, I only played on clay. In Argentina, there were no other surfaces. And the best surface for Justine is clay. And it's in Paris that Justine has won the most Grand Slam titles."

You are always associated with women's tennis but you also like men's tennis?"

Of course I do. More than women's tennis. But in life, people often label you. You have to know that at the beginning of my career, I was coaching men. Dick Norman, for example, was my player at the beginning and I took him all the way to the last 16 at Wimbledon. Even though I wasn't following him anymore, we worked in secret the day before he left for Wimbledon. I also worked with players from the AFT: Olivier Rochus and Réginald Willems for example. And I can tell you that it is easier to coach boys than girls. In terms of managing emotions, it's less complicated."

Given your values, you must surely appreciate a player like Rafael Nadal?

"When people ask me who I think is the greatest player in the history of tennis, I can't give one name, I have to give two: Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer. They are two champions with great human values. They are two champions in all the dimensions in which we expect them to be champions. And one would never have been as good without the other. They have left their mark on tennis forever. In terms of tennis, they are diametrically opposed, but they share the same human values.

Justine will be present at Roland Garros as a consultant. How do you find her in this role?

"Extraordinary. She is very strong. It's true that I'm not objective but she has a gift. She always finds the right tone, the right words and she sees things very clearly. Her analyses are also very spontaneous. And when she conducts interviews, I find her to be kind to the players. It's impressive and she shows her knowledge of tennis. When we prepared a match with Justine, it was like a game of chess. The power was not in our camp and we had to find other weapons to win. We were looking for the weakness in the opponent's game, where no one could see it. And when we found it, even if it was small, we tried to find a way to get through it again and again. That was the best part of our job."

In addition to Dominique Monami, who has been providing us with his sharp and interesting analyses for several months, you will be able to benefit from the expert eye of Carlos Rodriguez from the start of the French Open. During the French internationals, the 58-year-old Belgian-Argentinian, who has been the new sports director of the Justine Henin Academy for a little over a year, will give his opinion and explanations on the future highlights of the Paris Grand Slam. It's hard to find a better man in the Belgian tennis microcosm when you know his track record and the excellence of his work on the courts for several decades.

https://www.dhnet.be/sports/tennis/carl ... riNuEAj0HQ

I didn't do the translation. Thanks to @Pigam

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 11:52 pm FORMER SUCCESSFUL MENTOR TO JUSTINE HENIN, CARLOS RODRIGUEZ IS STRUGGLING TO GET EXCITED ABOUT THE CURRENT WOMEN'S TOUR ON THE EVE OF THE ROLAND-GARROS TOURNAMENT.

In your opinion, have girls like Leylah Fernandez, Emma Raducanu or Cori Gauff finished their training?

"Some of them had the misfortune to arrive too quickly, too early at a very high level. And they didn't have the environment, the training and the experience to support such a cataclysm in their lives. I'm in a good position to talk about this because when I inherited Li Na after she won the French Open, it was the same story. I had to help her out of that. When a player wins a Grand Slam but she doesn't know how she did it, that's a big problem. It's impossible for her to have something clear and precise to build on. You are working on quicksand. Raducanu and Fernandez know this problem. I hope I'm wrong but I think it could be a long and painful journey for both players."

https://www.dhnet.be/sports/tennis/carl ... riNuEAj0HQ

I agree with most of that part ^... I've said several times that I feel that Gauff's gradual trajectory to the top 20 will serve her much better and prove more beneficial than will Leylah's and Emma's very sudden and rapid ascension.
And I agree with his reasoning.

But for the first part of the interview, where he talks badly about the state and quality of the current WTA, and complains that coaches today are not as 'revered' as coaches in the past... well, I think he's guilty of 'romanticizing' the Henin era as well as his own accomplishments.
I think he's blowing his own horn too loudly.

As for the top 10 women players being of higher quality twenty years ago than today... that's debatable. It may be true - but the quality twenty years ago was certainly not '10 times higher than it is today'.
There is undeniably more parity in the WTA today than there was back then - and I think that makes for a more enjoyable 'product' for the vast majority of people - even if the quality is slightly less (if it is).

I do, however agree with what he says about the media exposure being too much today, and that it can easily be overwhelming for some players...
And I agree with him saying that players today have too many people around them. It seems that every player's 'team' is forever growing. Of course, the players making more money today has a lot to do with this, as they have more money to hire more people than players of the past did. But it's overkill.

With all of his talk comparing today's tennis to the past, it's shocking that he didn't mention that the number of in-match 'retirements' and withdrawals and Medical Time-Outs is so much higher today than it was in the past. So much so that it slaps the people who remember the past in the face...

by ashkor87

the Moz wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 1:04 pm I go with Paes

Great doubles player certainly but so was Krishnan..

by ashkor87 I always wonder why players sit down at changeovers..don't they cool off too much? In the old days (mid 70s ) players just strolled over to the other side and kept playing. I am not in this league but whenever I play a tournament, I never sit down..find it too hard to get going again....what is the experience of other folks here? Who play competitively at some level?

by Deuce

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun May 22, 2022 11:26 am I always wonder why players sit down at changeovers..don't they cool off too much? In the old days (mid 70s ) players just strolled over to the other side and kept playing. I am not in this league but whenever I play a tournament, I never sit down..find it too hard to get going again....what is the experience of other folks here? Who play competitively at some level?

I assume that the act of sitting makes it easier for most players to relax/decompress/think without losing their focus.
Every once in a while, we see a player not sit down on changeovers. To each their own - whatever works for them.

When I play tournaments - which is rare these days - sometimes I sit, and sometimes I don't. Generally, I tend to sit when I feel I need to relax/decompress/think, and I don't sit when I'm I'm playing well and full of intensity and want to keep it at that level.

by ponchi101 Depends on the level and quality of play. If you are a 3.0, don't sit. You are really not hitting or running that hard.
At 5.0, and over 45 yo, yes, sit a little bit. That bandana may be wet.
At the pro level, sit. You are soaked, the match is going to be a long one, and you need to think of what is going on.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Sun May 22, 2022 11:38 am
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun May 22, 2022 11:26 am I always wonder why players sit down at changeovers..don't they cool off too much? In the old days (mid 70s ) players just strolled over to the other side and kept playing. I am not in this league but whenever I play a tournament, I never sit down..find it too hard to get going again....what is the experience of other folks here? Who play competitively at some level?
I assume that the act of sitting makes it easier for most players to relax/decompress/think without losing their focus.
Every once in a while, we see a player not sit down on changeovers. To each their own - whatever works for them.

When I play tournaments - which is rare these days - sometimes I sit, and sometimes I don't. Generally, I tend to sit when I feel I need to relax/decompress/think, and I don't sit when I'm I'm playing well and full of intensity and want to keep it at that level.

I force myself to sit, especially if I'm trailing. I need to relax and breathe. I also don't let my opponent rush me. If she's on the court and I still have time, I'm going to use it. (It's just a judgment, there's no clock.) I think for pros it's part of their routine. If it were advantageous to stand, they would. At that level, they know where every shred of an advantage is.

by JazzNU I'm not sure what the point of that interview was from Carlos. It comes off as bitter and self-important to me.

by meganfernandez

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sun May 22, 2022 6:46 pm I'm not sure what the point of that interview was from Carlos. It comes off as bitter and self-important to me.

Especially the "no one listens to coaches anymore."

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sun May 22, 2022 6:46 pm I'm not sure what the point of that interview was from Carlos. It comes off as bitter and self-important to me.

Best description of the man I've read.

The "no one listens to coaches any more" comment is a reminder of how Henin had to look to him after every point for what she should do next.

And yet there are those who are begging for him to come back and coach one of the up and comers.

by Deuce There is a current trend of tennis clothing makers making shirts with holes in the back. Some of the holes are symmetrical, others are not (Anisimova). They are all, in my opinion, bizarrely ugly (though likely practical to a degree).

For those of you who, like me, are not fans of the current trend of the holes, there is only one person to blame for this eyesore - Dominik Hrbaty.
I suppose we should be thankful that it took about 15 years for it to catch on. I just wish it had taken 50 years instead...

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote:There is a current trend of tennis clothing makers making shirts with holes in the back. Some of the holes are symmetrical, others are not (Anisimova). They are all, in my opinion, bizarrely ugly (though likely practical to a degree).

For those of you who, like me, are not fans of the current trend of the holes, there is only one person to blame for this eyesore - Dominik Hrbaty.
I suppose we should be thankful that it took about 15 years for it to catch on. I just wish it had taken 50 years instead...

Will never forget the Hrbaty. This year's RG Nike kit with the big holes and awkward one sleeve is very strange. I like some cutouts, but the big uneven holes in the back of Andreescu’s dress are awful. Don’t get it. Immediately reminded me of Hrbaty.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by Suliso Would we otherwise remember Hrbaty for anything? Probably not...

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 12:39 pm Would we otherwise remember Hrbaty for anything? Probably not...

One of just a handful of players with a winning record against Federer, that is not 1-0
(But your point is correct. Ugliest shirt in history).

by JazzNU

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 11:29 am
Will never forget the Hrbaty. This year's RG Nike kit with the big holes and awkward one sleeve is very strange. I like some cutouts, but the big uneven holes in the back of Andreescu’s dress are awful. Don’t get it. Immediately reminded me of Hrbaty.

You say strange and awkward, I say on trend. Cut-outs are very on trend right now, will sell well to younger players.

For anyone who doesn't like the Nike kit or think it looks odd, I'd say, make sure to see it on Paula Badosa. Looks fantastic on her.

by ponchi101 You can put a 50 gallon trash bag on Paola and it would still look fantastic on her

by ti-amie

Just think France had Tsonga, Monfils, Simon and Gasquet who had been declared the anointed one, all active at the same time (I feel as if I've left someone out) and none of them won a Slam.

by ponchi101 Further proof of how great a certain group was/is.

by JazzNU This is very nice. The entire farewell RG organized has been lovely. Amelie's influence perhaps?

by Deuce My main memory of Tsonga was seeing him as a 17-18 year old Junior.
I remember him walking past me as a kid, and I thought to myself "That guy looks like an athlete".
I was impressed with him as a player, as well - along with his good friend (and Junior doubles partner, as well, I believe) Mathieu Montcourt, who died very young of a heart problem. At the Junior level, I thought Montcourt was the better player, but he never did much at the pro level, whereas Tsonga obviously did.

Every time one of these players I saw at the Junior level retires, I feel a little older - and a little sadder...

by Fastbackss Wertheim reporting that players are "changing" their housing for Wimbledon - in an effort to save money (and be in and out quicker than they would be for a standard slam).

by ponchi101 I remember reading once that some of the houses in WImbledon (the village) get rented by the top players for such a high price that the owner live of that for the rest of the year.
Incredible how such a remote thing as a war in Ukraine can even affect these details.

by ponchi101 About Tsonga.
I always liked him but he was not like my player to die for. I liked Ferrer much better.
But I have never heard anybody disliking him, so I will not ask about if he will be missed. Certainly some people will.
I do wonder: with that game, did he Over, Under or just achieved the right level in the sport? I know he lived his entire career dealing with the Big 4, but I wonder about that opinion.
A poll has been opened, if you want to tell.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 12:53 pm About Tsonga.
I always liked him but he was not like my player to die for. I liked Ferrer much better.
But I have never heard anybody disliking him, so I will not ask about if he will be missed. Certainly some people will.
I do wonder: with that game, did he Over, Under or just achieved the right level in the sport? I know he lived his entire career dealing with the Big 4, but I wonder about that opinion.
A poll has been opened, if you want to tell.

I said underachieved, just slightly. Without thinking deeply about it, I believe he (and Berdych) could have made a bigger dent in the Big 4. Wawrinka, JMDP and even Cilic mustered a little more, and I think Tsonga could have..

by ponchi101 To me, with the quality of that game, he underachieved a bit too. He had a monster FH, the serve was very, very good, to say that he had the physique is an understatement. He was very powerful, and also very fast.
I say the BH was not up to the level of the rest of the game, but it was also not a liability. It was not as if the recipe was "hit to his BH", and that would be it.
Sincerely, he is one of those players that tell me how little I know about this sport, because I can't figure out why he did not win more. Other than the top 4 guys being such a wall.

by Liamvalid I often put him as one of the best players to not win a slam by his actual tennis. Not sure if it was his mentality that stopped him, or his injury problems. But he beat all the big 3 while they occupied the number one ranking so the potential was there. Didn’t he beat all 3 of them at slams too?

by meganfernandez

Liamvalid wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 5:34 pm I often put him as one of the best players to not win a slam by his actual tennis. Not sure if it was his mentality that stopped him, or his injury problems. But he beat all the big 3 while they occupied the number one ranking so the potential was there. Didn’t he beat all 3 of them at slams too?

Tsonga beat all of the Big 4 at majors. Only two other players did that, Wawrinka and Berdych. Which you'd expect based on the rankings.

by patrick

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 5:49 pm
Liamvalid wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 5:34 pm I often put him as one of the best players to not win a slam by his actual tennis. Not sure if it was his mentality that stopped him, or his injury problems. But he beat all the big 3 while they occupied the number one ranking so the potential was there. Didn’t he beat all 3 of them at slams too?
Tsonga beat all of the Big 4 at majors. Only two other players did that, Wawrinka and Berdych. Which you'd expect based on the rankings.

What major did Wawrinka defeat Federer?

by ponchi101

patrick wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 6:33 pm ...

What major did Wawrinka defeat Federer?

QF at RG 2015.

by JazzNU Not a fan of this poll. How about Option 4, had a fantastic career during the Big 4 era.

by ponchi101 Because that one is understood. Nobody is saying his career was not damn good, and that any young player that wants to emulate him or has been inspired by him is doing the right thing.
No need to ponder the obvious.

by ti-amie

by dmforever

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 11:33 pm

That is really interesting. I guess Steffi and Chris didn't play quite long enough to rack up 300. And when Chris started, I think top seeds got a bye in the first round of many of the Slams. That seems so antiquated. And no Jimmy, or Andre, or Pete. I guess they also didn't play enough years and had off years where they didn't win as many matches. Cool post!

Kevin

by ti-amie I'm putting this highlight reel in this thread because it's awesome and shows ARV wasn't standing around doing nothing. He fought.

by ponchi101

dmforever wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 11:49 pm ...

That is really interesting. I guess Steffi and Chris didn't play quite long enough to rack up 300. And when Chris started, I think top seeds got a bye in the first round of many of the Slams. That seems so antiquated. And no Jimmy, or Andre, or Pete. I guess they also didn't play enough years and had off years where they didn't win as many matches. Cool post!

Kevin

Steffi simply did not play enough slams, or long enough, to reach 300. She played in 56 slams, and if you were to win every single slam you enter, you would need 42 to reach 300. Retiring at 32-33 yo is not a good recipe to reach 300. Therefore, Pete was never even close, as neither was Andre. Jimmy not being there is kind of a surprise, as he played into his 40's. You would assume he should have made it, having the most wins of all times. But he missed the Aussie and RG on several occasions, so that must be it.

by JazzNU

by ponchi101 Begu tossed her racquet, rather innocuously, but it bounced into the stands and hit a young kid.
She was not disqualified, but a supervisor was called.
Alexandrova, who ended up losing the match, was not happy.

I really am at odds here. She did not toss it in anger, just frustration. But that is a judgement call. I still think that, regardless of intentions, some regulations have to be in place.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 3:49 pm Begu tossed her racquet, rather innocuously, but it bounced into the stands and hit a young kid.
She was not disqualified, but a supervisor was called.
Alexandrova, who ended up losing the match, was not happy.

I really am at odds here. She did not toss it in anger, just frustration. But that is a judgement call. I still think that, regardless of intentions, some regulations have to be in place.

Hoo-boy. Another 1 in a million unlucky bounce. But this is why the rule exists - because you never know what can happen when the racket leaves your hand, and there has to be a rule/consequence to deter. It's not as reckless as some other incidents where a ball was hit with full force or a racket was flung right toward someone with little regard for their presence, but a kid did get hit in the face, enough to cry. I'm all for umpire discretion and usually stand behind their calls, as I do here. But had she been disqualified, I think it would have been justified, too.

by ponchi101 That is why I think that the rule has to be unambiguous. Regardless of intention. If a ball, racquet or any other piece of equipment TOUCHES a third party, you are out. The sole exception should be a ball hit during a point in play that went stray after it was hit.
I agree that Begu's case here is right borderline. Had she been disqualified, it would have been justified too.

by JazzNU Sigh. Novak's obnoxious fans will be coming out of the woodwork today. Guaranteed.

by meganfernandez

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 5:10 pm Sigh. Novak's obnoxious fans will be coming out of the woodwork today. Guaranteed.

Reason enough to default Begu. Unbearable. BTW, it's being reported that the racket didn't touch the kid. He was just scared. And possibly a big Alexandrova fan who faked an injury, holding his unscathed cheek and everything.

by Suliso Some fun facts from wta.com about Iga's win streak (now 30) qnd more.

- 4th longest win streak since 2000 (behind Venus, Serena and Henin)

- first player to win 13+ matches as #1 since Serena in 2015

- 46/47 sets won since R16 IW

- 15 bagels

- 16 consecutive sets won in finals

- only 3 other players have won 5+ consecutive tournaments in this century (Venus 2000, Serena 2013 and Henin 2007-2008)

- it has been 8 years since anyone has won more than 5 tournaments in a single season (Serena 7, 2014)

- bagel sets in a season since 2000:

25 Serena 2013
18 Clijsters 2003
17 Hingis 2000
16 Zvonareva 2008
16 Hingis 2001
15 Azarenka 2012
15 Clijsters 2005
15 Swiatek 2022

-

by ponchi101 I thanked you for the post, but maybe you want to edit one little datum...

by ti-amie Begu should've been disqualified.

by ponchi101 I know he is very much disliked here, but Simon reached today the 500 wins mark.
For somebody with that game, I find it impressive.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 4:40 pm That is why I think that the rule has to be unambiguous. Regardless of intention. If a ball, racquet or any other piece of equipment TOUCHES a third party, you are out. The sole exception should be a ball hit during a point in play that went stray after it was hit.
I agree that Begu's case here is right borderline. Had she been disqualified, it would have been justified too.

If the racquet hit the child (there is apparently some dispute about whether it did or not), then Begu should have been immediately disqualified, period.

That said, while I understand Alexandrova's frustration, I don't think it was wise of her to imply that she lost because 'the rules were against her today'. Indeed, players are responsible for their racquets. But players are also responsible for their play, Ekaterina.

I agree that the rule should be a solid one, leaving little room for judgement... but I do see a difference between this incident (Begu) and a situation where the racquet would travel 15 or 20 feet, bouncing repeatedly and slowing down in the process, and come to rest just barely brushing against a linesperson's shoe. I don't think disqualification would be in order in that latter example (unless the offender is Kyrgios

).

Here's a video of the Begu incident today. While it doesn't show if the child was actually hit or not, it does show that the manner in which the racquet was tossed, that close to the crowd, was quite irresponsible.

by JazzNU Since people seem to be invested in their pairing.

by ti-amie Here's a list of Badosa's withdrawals.

http://www.tennisabstract.com/cgi-bin/w ... aulaBadosa

by ptmcmahon Before today I’m only seeing one other one on that list?

by JazzNU

I appreciate tweets like this, but prefer they follow it up with the who of the previous time they are referencing. The 5 Americans in 2003 that made the Round of 16 - Serena, Venus, Lindsay, Chanda, and Capriati

by ponchi101 An interesting bit. But it is not as if American WOMEN's tennis has been in the same drought as the men's.
You tell me that 5 American men have reached the same stage, and then it surprises me.

by Deuce This is rather petty (article below)...
Imagine - there is someone somewhere being paid to monitor the sponsor badges on players' clothing...

Last year at a junior tournament, I was watching a match and talking with some of the girl players when the main supervisor came over beside us to watch some of the match. After a couple of minutes, the supervisor spotted something 'illegal' on one of the girls...
He said "You have two Nike logos on your visor - the main one in the front, and a tiny one in the back. That's not allowed. You'll have to cover one of them up or cut off the back one."
The 15 year old girl replied with "Huh? What the hell?"

I told the supervisor that this is ridiculous, as these kids aren't on TV, and there were hardly any spectators at the tournament - whether there are 1 or 2 logos makes absolutely NO difference whatsoever... and I told him it was unhealthy to force these teenaged players into the silly adult world of foolishness before their time. "Leave them alone - they're kids, for god's sake - let them enjoy their childhood!" I said to him.

But this supervisor was a zealot for strictly following the rules, no matter how absurd, and he insisted that one of the logos had to disappear before she got onto the court.
(I wonder if he got the term 'supervisor' because of his penchant for checking to make sure the logos on the children's visors are 'legal' - thus rendering him the SUPER-visor...).

I am not a fan of marketing... and I am definitely not a fan of huge, filthy rich companies like Nike, who pay children in poor countries $2 per week to make the products that make their executives obscenely rich... but the principle of harassing these kids about the logos on their clothing was just so completely ridiculous.

In any case, here you go - the pro version of basically the same story...

Camilla Giorgi Caught in 'Illegal Act'!...

.

by ponchi101 Somebody mentioned that s/he would want to see more night matches featuring the women's tour.
Amelie Mauresmo was asked that question.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/french-open- ... 56052.html

by JazzNU I saw that earlier. Pretty bold of her to act like it's about star power and then put Rune vs. Ruud in the night match and previously put Rune vs. Gaston there.

Not sure how things work in France and if she needs to worry about this on a larger scale. The "men's game is more appealing" is an argument that was made to explain lack of interest in women's sports here many, many times. But the truth was that, women's sports were rarely put on TV for people to watch at anywhere near the same rate as men's. In recent years, they've gotten much more equitable coverage of many sports and while not as popular as the men's sports yet, they've been growing at a much greater rate that has made it clear, it's not the interest that was impossible, it was the access to the product. If all you do is try to promote men's tennis, then it's likely the men will be continue to have more star power.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:42 pm Somebody mentioned that s/he would want to see more night matches featuring the women's tour.
Amelie Mauresmo was asked that question.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/french-open- ... 56052.html

Thanks for posting the entire article. I saw snippets of it on Twitter earlier and was going to look for a more complete version.

TD is not a job for the faint hearted. Her admission that right now the ATP has more appealing players will rankle die hard WTA only stans but again Ruud vs Rune? That is a match only tennis heads will love.

She said she does the best with the options she's given. You can't do more than that.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Some fan responses to the Mauresmo comments.

No one knows who Iga Swiatek is. No one knew who Ash Barty was in relation to tennis and that is a huge problem. The WTA has never marketed women's tennis it has always marketed stars and if you don't have the personality and drive to create a marketing niche for yourself you are truly SOL.

As has been said here if your wannabe stars get a hangnail (thanks Deuce) and quit their match who wants to see that or read/hear the miles of spin that will come afterwards to try and justify the players actions.

Look at this promo for tonights match for two relative unknowns even for tennis fans.

Sigh.

by Suliso Easy to market Nadal vs Djokovic. Try with Ruud vs Rune and see how easy it is outside Scandinavia.

by ponchi101 Today's matches.
Kasatkina-Kudermetova. I don't think that would have cut it.
Rublev-Cilic. No star power there.
Ruud-Rune. Maybe in a couple of years Rune will be a better ranked and known player, and maybe easier to market. Right now, just a reasonable choice for tonight, because:
Iga-Pegula. You also have to take TV into consideration, and this match could have been a demolition. One of those recent Iga matches that last 52 minutes. It ended up being a reasonable 6-3, 6-2 but with Rune-Ruud you can count on two hours of match.
It was a tough choice today.
Friday: you have Rafa, now going to #14. I guess the marketing there is easy.

by Suliso A philosophical question - what where the odds before the WTA season that someone would have at least the 13th longest win streak of all time. Most of us were expecting parity instead. Predictions are hard, especially about the future, and past events are not an indicator of future outcomes.

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:20 pm Today's matches.
Kasatkina-Kudermetova. I don't think that would have cut it.
Rublev-Cilic. No star power there.
Ruud-Rune. Maybe in a couple of years Rune will be a better ranked and known player, and maybe easier to market. Right now, just a reasonable choice for tonight, because:
Iga-Pegula. You also have to take TV into consideration, and this match could have been a demolition. One of those recent Iga matches that last 52 minutes. It ended up being a reasonable 6-3, 6-2 but with Rune-Ruud you can count on two hours of match.
It was a tough choice today.
Friday: you have Rafa, now going to #14. I guess the marketing there is easy.

I'd say Rublev - Cilic has more "star power" than Ruud - Rune. I'd guess they may not want to feature Russian players at the moment but i think Medvedev - Cilic was a night match.

by ponchi101 Yes. If you see it that way, sure, I can accept that. Rune might be a good choice because we don't know where he will be in a few years, so showing him perhaps is a marketing ploy for the future.
But other than Iga, there was nobody there to push the buttons. I would say.

by Deuce I think Leylah vs. Anisimova had enough entertainment potential to be a night match. Same could be said of Leylah vs. Bencic.
And both matches turned out to be close and entertaining - which, again, could definitely have been predicted.

The night match on the Leylah - Bencic day was Alcaraz - Korda, which was basically a straight set drubbing by Alcaraz. Granted, it had some decent potential before the match.
The night match on the Leylah - Anisimova day was Alcaraz - Khachanov, which was a routine straight set win for Alcaraz.

So... Alcaraz getting 2 night matches while there was a women's match that had at least as good a potential to be a good, close, entertaining match both times (and delivered on that both times) seems questionable at best.
The argument that men play best of 5 sets, and so can benefit from the cooler night conditions hold no water, as the temperatures in Paris this week have been cool during the day.

Mauresmo decides what the night match will be each day - it's not decided a week in advance. She should be doing a better job of balancing the men's and women's matches as the night match - because the WTA matchups have existed to do that.

by ponchi101 Iga has established herself as the clear cut #1, and has the hardware now to make it totally, completely legit. Sure, she inherited the position after Barty's retirement, but her dominant run leaves no doubt that she is simply the best, right now. I repeat, plagiarizing Suliso: who knows what great rivalry we were robbed of with Barty's retirement.
But, from immediately below Swiatek the WTA is in disarray.
I know I contradict myself because I have stated that I like this parity, but these are the results for the other top ten players. Ranking, PRIOR TO RG, in parenthesis:
1r losers: Krejcikova (2), Jabeur (6), Kontaveit (5), Muguruza (10).
2r losers: Pliskova (8), Collins (9), Sakkari (4)
3r losers: Badosa (4), Sabalenka (7)

Again, maybe I like it, but I don't know if this is what the WTA wants or, even more important, the public wants. The absolute parity means that the difference between the #50 player and #2 has never been smaller. It means that your marquee matches, starting in the QF's, feature players like Kudermetova and Trevisan, fine players but nobody that is known to anybody other than hard core players.
How this will affect the tour is easy to see. It is fine if you have a new winner every week, as long as those winners are the favorites and are known. But Trevisan is a great example: she is playing very good tennis at the moment, winning Rabat the week before RG, and reaching the semis at a major, but she most likely will now fade away and not gain any traction with fans (outside of Italy).
Repeat for the 3rd time: maybe I like the current parity, but I am certainly the only one. And I gather that there is nothing that can be done, because in a meritocratic system like sports, there is no way to create stars if they can't win their matches. So the WTA may enter a phase in which they will be victims of their own success. They have created a very balanced and open field for players to compete in, with a lot of contenders. And at the same time, they have created a product that will be hard to sell.
I think. The stands were packed for the RG final, so maybe nobody minds this revolving door at the top.

by Suliso Someone else will step up soon. Gauff is a good candidate and Osaka might be back as well.

by Suliso Eight women have won 35 or more matches in the row in the Open era (some more than once) - Navratilova, Graf, Court, Evert, Hingis, Seles, Venus and Swiatek.

by ashkor87 Form is temporary, class is permanent...Osaka, Andreescu, Bencic will always be there, and winning. Most of the others mentioned above are just players who are having a good run at the moment...some are a wee bit overrated and always have been - unfortunately, they are the ones with high rankings. But class will win out.

by ashkor87 And Leylah and Raducanu ..will win often..

by Deuce

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:27 am Form is temporary, class is permanent...Osaka, Andreescu, Bencic will always be there, and winning. Most of the others mentioned above are just players who are having a good run at the moment...some are a wee bit overrated and always have been - unfortunately, they are the ones with high rankings. But class will win out.

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:34 am And Leylah and Raducanu ..will win often..

I agree about Osaka - if she is motivated, which is questionable going forward...

I disagree about Andreescu... In 3 1/2 years- which is basically her entire WTA career thus far -, she has been a top player for a grand total of 6 injury interrupted months. That's half of one year.
For the other 3 years, she has been either injured, or not playing at a top 20 level...

Bencic will probably be a top 20 - 25 player for a few years... but I'd be surprised - not shocked, but surprised - if she ever wins a Major...

Raducanu... she's a BIG question mark. Is she committed enough to be a consistent presence in the top 20? She certainly hasn't done anything since the U.S. Open (other than retire and withdraw and complain about injuries). I'd like her to do well, but the only thing she's showing is that she gives up quite easily, thus making people question her commitment. Kind of the opposite of Leylah when it comes to her effort and dedication to tennis.
I see her career path going forward (once her Wimbledon and U.S. Open points disappear) as being similar to Sorana Cirstea's - up and down, possibly entering the top 20 briefly, but never coming very close to top 10...

Leylah... I really don't know. If judged on guts alone, she'd win multiple Majors. I see her as being in and out of the top 20, perhaps dipping into the top 10 at times, and pretty much always inside the top 30.

by Deuce This is quite funny...

"Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me..."

by ti-amie Never forget people buy the tickets for the Finals, mens and women's, way ahead of time. The number of people in the stands has nothing to do with the popularity or lack thereof of the finalists.

by ponchi101 But RG is famous for re-sales, and you can get pretty good tickets outside. If you get a "bad" final, you can dump those tickets easily.
Scalping is not an unknown phenomenon in Paris

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 10:18 am This is quite funny...

"Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me..."

haha... I thought you were saying "me, me, me!" like you wanted to answer them. Because I wanted to answer them, too. This is one tennis trivia quiz I could nail. Fun commentary, esp by Monfils.

by ponchi101 Ok, for the oldies. RG champions, MEN's, from 1980 through 1999. WITH NO GOOGLE!
Answers in the spoiler

► Show Spoiler

by ponchi101 Needless to say, the women's is WAY, WAY, WAAAAYYYYY more difficult. Some really slippery banana peels there.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:16 pm Needless to say, the women's is WAY, WAY, WAAAAYYYYY more difficult. Some really slippery banana peels there.

I actually tried to memorize all the Slam winners in the Open Era during the lockdown. I was memorizing all kinds of stuff. It was my sourdough. I didn't get to women's RG, though. But off the top of my head

1995 Aranxta?
1996 Aranxta?
1997 Majoli
1998 Mary Pierce?
1999 Graf
2000 Capriati
2001 Capriati
2002 Serena
2003 Henin
2004 Myskina
2005 Henin
2006 Henin
2007 Henin
2008 Ivanovic
2009 Kuznetsova
2010 Schiavone
2011 Li Na
2012 Sharapova
2013 Serena
2014 Sharapova
2015 Serena?
2016 Muguruza
2017 Ostapenko
2018 Halep
2019 Barty
2020 Swiatek
2021 Krejcikova
2022 Swiatek

by ptmcmahon As a Canadian, my memorization was always Stanley Cup Winners. The funny thing is I can tell you who won every Stanley Cup from 1970 (ten years before I was born) until about 1997 or 1998. The last 23 years though - I only can remember the last two off top of my head (since it was same team back to back.)

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:20 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:16 pm Needless to say, the women's is WAY, WAY, WAAAAYYYYY more difficult. Some really slippery banana peels there.
I actually tried to memorize all the Slam winners in the Open Era during the lockdown. I was memorizing all kinds of stuff. It was my sourdough. I didn't get to women's RG, though. But off the top of my head

1995 Aranxta?
1996 Aranxta?
1997 Majoli
1998 Mary Pierce?
1999 Graf
2000 Capriati
2001 Capriati
2002 Serena
2003 Henin
2004 Myskina
2005 Henin
2006 Henin
2007 Henin
2008 Ivanovic
2009 Kuznetsova
2010 Schiavone
2011 Li Na
2012 Sharapova
2013 Serena
2014 Sharapova
2015 Serena?
2016 Muguruza
2017 Ostapenko
2018 Halep
2019 Barty
2020 Swiatek
2021 Krejcikova
2022 Swiatek

Impressive

by meganfernandez

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:52 pm As a Canadian, my memorization was always Stanley Cup Winners. The funny thing is I can tell you who won every Stanley Cup from 1970 (ten years before I was born) until about 1997 or 1998. The last 23 years though - I only can remember the last two off top of my head (since it was same team back to back.)

That is very strange!

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:04 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:20 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:16 pm Needless to say, the women's is WAY, WAY, WAAAAYYYYY more difficult. Some really slippery banana peels there.
I actually tried to memorize all the Slam winners in the Open Era during the lockdown. I was memorizing all kinds of stuff. It was my sourdough. I didn't get to women's RG, though. But off the top of my head

1995 Aranxta?
1996 Aranxta?
1997 Majoli
1998 Mary Pierce?
1999 Graf
2000 Capriati
2001 Capriati
2002 Serena
2003 Henin
2004 Myskina
2005 Henin
2006 Henin
2007 Henin
2008 Ivanovic
2009 Kuznetsova
2010 Schiavone
2011 Li Na
2012 Sharapova
2013 Serena
2014 Sharapova
2015 Serena?
2016 Muguruza
2017 Ostapenko
2018 Halep
2019 Barty
2020 Swiatek
2021 Krejcikova
2022 Swiatek
Impressive

But not 100% correct.

1988 was Aranxta, 2000 was Pierce

by ti-amie

by ptmcmahon

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:15 pm
ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:52 pm As a Canadian, my memorization was always Stanley Cup Winners. The funny thing is I can tell you who won every Stanley Cup from 1970 (ten years before I was born) until about 1997 or 1998. The last 23 years though - I only can remember the last two off top of my head (since it was same team back to back.)
That is very strange!

Probably something about nostalagia and the younger years of your life being more meaningful.

by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:20 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:16 pm Needless to say, the women's is WAY, WAY, WAAAAYYYYY more difficult. Some really slippery banana peels there.
I actually tried to memorize all the Slam winners in the Open Era during the lockdown. I was memorizing all kinds of stuff. It was my sourdough. I didn't get to women's RG, though. But off the top of my head

1995 Aranxta?
1996 Aranxta?
1997 Majoli
1998 Mary Pierce?
1999 Graf
2000 Capriati
2001 Capriati
2002 Serena
2003 Henin
2004 Myskina
2005 Henin
2006 Henin
2007 Henin
2008 Ivanovic
2009 Kuznetsova
2010 Schiavone
2011 Li Na
2012 Sharapova
2013 Serena
2014 Sharapova
2015 Serena?
2016 Muguruza
2017 Ostapenko
2018 Halep
2019 Barty
2020 Swiatek
2021 Krejcikova
2022 Swiatek

awesome effort! I can remember every male wimbledon champion from 1960 onwards (shows you how old i must be, I suppose)

by Owendonovan

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:44 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:15 pm
ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:52 pm As a Canadian, my memorization was always Stanley Cup Winners. The funny thing is I can tell you who won every Stanley Cup from 1970 (ten years before I was born) until about 1997 or 1998. The last 23 years though - I only can remember the last two off top of my head (since it was same team back to back.)
That is very strange!
Probably something about nostalagia and the younger years of your life being more meaningful.

Bam!

by Deuce Some players complain about grass courts - and some people even want them banned, because they make up only a tiny part of the schedule, and are difficult to maintain.

I think anyone who complains about grass courts should be invited to play on this little known surface (link below).
(I'll bet that Ashkor has probably played on this surface...)

India's Dung Courts - a Whiff of Nostalgia...

.

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:20 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:16 pm Needless to say, the women's is WAY, WAY, WAAAAYYYYY more difficult. Some really slippery banana peels there.
I actually tried to memorize all the Slam winners in the Open Era during the lockdown. I was memorizing all kinds of stuff. It was my sourdough. I didn't get to women's RG, though. But off the top of my head

1995 Aranxta?
1996 Aranxta?
1997 Majoli
1998 Mary Pierce?
1999 Graf
2000 Capriati
2001 Capriati
2002 Serena
2003 Henin
2004 Myskina
2005 Henin
2006 Henin
2007 Henin
2008 Ivanovic
2009 Kuznetsova
2010 Schiavone
2011 Li Na
2012 Sharapova
2013 Serena
2014 Sharapova
2015 Serena?
2016 Muguruza
2017 Ostapenko
2018 Halep
2019 Barty
2020 Swiatek
2021 Krejcikova
2022 Swiatek
awesome effort! I can remember every male wimbledon champion from 1960 onwards (shows you how old i must be, I suppose)

From 1960! Wow! I get confused by
the Becker/Edberg years. But I remember Becker was in a ton of finals even though he only won 3. Like 7 finals.

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by ponchi101 Boris is not only one of the winningest players at Wimbledon, he is also one of the few that have lost more finals.
88-90, Edberg, 91-Stich, 95-Pete. Tied with Rosewall, I think, and Connors.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:14 pm Boris is not only one of the winningest players at Wimbledon, he is also one of the few that have lost more finals.
88-90, Edberg, 91-Stich, 95-Pete. Tied with Rosewall, I think, and Connors.

That's some good trivia.

by ashkor87 Drobny ...

by ashkor87 As the grass season starts...one player I like is Ann Li...she has the game to do well..

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:14 pm Boris is not only one of the winningest players at Wimbledon, he is also one of the few that have lost more finals.
88-90, Edberg, 91-Stich, 95-Pete. Tied with Rosewall, I think, and Connors.

Drobny lost 5 out of 8 major finals, and Rosewall lost all 4 Wimbledon finals he made...including once to Drobny!

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:14 pm Boris is not only one of the winningest players at Wimbledon, he is also one of the few that have lost more finals.
88-90, Edberg, 91-Stich, 95-Pete. Tied with Rosewall, I think, and Connors.
Drobny lost 5 out of 8 major finals, and Rosewall lost all 4 Wimbledon finals he made...including once to Drobny!

Equally impressed by the trivia.

was this Closed Era?

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by meganfernandez This popped up on Twitter. Forgot all about her.

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by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:17 amDrobny ...

I had to look it up

Drobny lost ONLY two Wimbledon finals, but that was in the 40's and 50's. That puts him on par with Mac and Edberg, plus Lendl (we were talking about him before).
Four seems to be a bad number of Slam finals lost. Borg lost 4 USO finals, Goolagong also, and they never won it. I guess we would have to look up if somebody has lost 5 finals are the same slam.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 3:34 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:17 amDrobny ...
I had to look it up
Drobny lost ONLY two Wimbledon finals, but that was in the 40's and 50's. That puts him on par with Mac and Edberg, plus Lendl (we were talking about him before).
Four seems to be a bad number of Slam finals lost. Borg lost 4 USO finals, Goolagong also, and they never won it. I guess we would have to look up if somebody has lost 5 finals are the same slam.

Murray at the Australian Open - 2010, 11, 13, 15, 16. First loss to Roger, other four to Novak. Might be the record for most match wins at a tournament without a title.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87

Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:02 am Some players complain about grass courts - and some people even want them banned, because they make up only a tiny part of the schedule, and are difficult to maintain.

I think anyone who complains about grass courts should be invited to play on this little known surface (link below).
(I'll bet that Ashkor has probably played on this surface...)

India's Dung Courts - a Whiff of Nostalgia...

Yes indeed, always found them very good, though a bit slow!

.

by ashkor87 Cowdung is not considered dirty in India, that is the point. It is used all the time as a top layer for floors, it is used as fuel, and so on...

by Deuce

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:24 am Cowdung is not considered dirty in India, that is the point. It is used all the time as a top layer for floors, it is used as fuel, and so on...

Good to know that it is seen as a practical natural resource there. That puts them several steps ahead of North America, where there is certainly no shortage of bullsh!t, but we have yet to find a practical or meaningful use for it!

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:40 am

This might be his most surprising act - continuing to play when he isn't at GOAT level (he won't be), because he truly loves it. This is when we might see the real Roger most clearly, the player behind all those achievements. He's been there the whole time, but we have, naturally and reasonably, been blinded by the golden aura. I will look forward to watching him at this stage if he really is going to compete as a mere mortal tennis player.

by ponchi101 Although I am a bit surprised about the "my kids would like to go back to some places in the world" comment. I am sure he means nothing out of it, and he was certainly joking, but I gather that by now Roger Federer can afford a vacation with his family at Disney World. Even if he has four kids

I gather back to back tournaments are over, very limited clay tournaments, and just one grass tournament a year.

About love of the game: I believe that this generation proved that galore. None of them needs to keep playing. Roger, Rafa and Nole have nothing else to prove, other than my believe that they truly wanted that MOST SLAMS title (which Roger won't have). Andy and Stan are still playing when hey also do not need to. Tsonga's farewell was sincere, showing how much the sport mattered. Another point in which we have been pampered. Other than one little thing here, another one there, this has been a generation of likeable players.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 3:40 pm Although I am a bit surprised about the "my kids would like to go back to some places in the world" comment. I am sure he means nothing out of it, and he was certainly joking, but I gather that by now Roger Federer can afford a vacation with his family at Disney World. Even if he has four kids
I gather back to back tournaments are over, very limited clay tournaments, and just one grass tournament a year.

About love of the game: I believe that this generation proved that galore. None of them needs to keep playing. Roger, Rafa and Nole have nothing else to prove, other than my believe that they truly wanted that MOST SLAMS title (which Roger won't have). Andy and Stan are still playing when hey also do not need to. Tsonga's farewell was sincere, showing how much the sport mattered. Another point in which we have been pampered. Other than one little thing here, another one there, this has been a generation of likeable players.

I think he means it about the kids, in context of what continuing to play means for them. He said once, years ago, that the moment his family wants to stay in one place, he would call it quits, no problem. I always thought they might want to eventually go to one school year-round with their friends, but who knows. Evidently they are still happy with his playing lifestyle, and their happiness on the road with him is a big factor.

by ti-amie

by Suliso

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:54 pm

That's an impressive stat. RG used to produce a lot of random winners, but is it perhaps now USO instead?

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:54 pm

When put in proper context, the only real surprise here to me is Medvedev... and even that is not shocking, given the U.S. Open was less than 1 year ago.

I don't think any knowledgeable tennis fan really expected Raducanu to win another tournament in the past 9 months (although we did certainly expect her to actually participate more and retire/withdraw less... and to not lose in the 1st or 2nd round as often as she has on the rare occasions that she's played).

As for Thiem and Andreescu - they've both been injured for lengthy periods... and a lot of time was lost and several tournaments not played (and others bounced around the schedule) due to COVID-19.

So... again, context is imperative here. It's not as if all of them have been healthy and that there's been a full normal schedule played since they all won their Majors.

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:43 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:54 pm
That's an impressive stat. RG used to produce a lot of random winners, but is it perhaps now USO instead?

Andreescu, Thiem and Emma have been so frequently injured that it becomes the explanation. But it is indeed a bit odd.
However, the 2019 men's champion (Rafa) and the 2020 women's champion (Naomi) have done well.

by ponchi101 Monica Puig has announced her retirement. Too many injuries.
I hope she will remain with ESPN. She is a complete change from the rest of the team.

by ti-amie

by Deuce (Must remember to add words to post...)

by Suliso I was just thinking which other female players in the last few decades have won 2 or 3 Slams. No less and no more. Here they are starting from 1990:

Lindsay Davenport (3)
Jennifer Capriati (3)
Mary Pierce (2)
Amelie Mauresmo (2)
Svetlana Kuznetsova (2)
Li Na (2)
Victoria Azarenka (2)
Garbine Muguruza (2)
Angelique Kerber (3)
Petra Kvitova (2)
Simona Halep (2)
Ashleigh Barty (3)

From the active ones maybe Muguruza can add another one. Others seem super unlikely to get there.

by ashkor87 Mauresmo
And you are forgetting Sharapova (5)..ok I you want to stop at 3

by ashkor87 But why stop at 3? Osaka has 4 already..not sure what you get by doing that

by Suliso

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:57 am But why stop at 3? Osaka has 4 already..not sure what you get by doing that

I stopped at 3 because I wanted to compare Iga with players who have won a similar number of Slams. One could be a lucky break.

by ponchi101 I doubt Iga will stop at 2, but that is a good sample that it is not unusual. Austin in the 70's comes to mind too, but I draw a blank after that.
I hope your optimism about Mugu will pay off, but it does not look promising at the moment. There is something odd about her results.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:15 am I was just thinking which other female players in the last few decades have won 2 or 3 Slams. No less and no more. Here they are starting from 1990:

Lindsay Davenport (3)
Jennifer Capriati (3)
Mary Pierce (2)
Svetlana Kuznetsova (2)
Li Na (2)
Victoria Azarenka (2)
Garbine Muguruza (2)
Angelique Kerber (3)
Petra Kvitova (2)
Simona Halep (2)
Ashleigh Barty (3)

From the active ones maybe Muguruza can add another one. Others seem super unlikely to get there.

I'd go with Halep from active players, then Barty.

I think Mugu and Kerber could win one, if things break right, but I also think Barty might come back in a few years.

by 3mlm

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:15 am I was just thinking which other female players in the last few decades have won 2 or 3 Slams. No less and no more. Here they are starting from 1990:

Lindsay Davenport (3)
Jennifer Capriati (3)
Mary Pierce (2)
Svetlana Kuznetsova (2)
Li Na (2)
Victoria Azarenka (2)
Garbine Muguruza (2)
Angelique Kerber (3)
Petra Kvitova (2)
Simona Halep (2)
Ashleigh Barty (3)
[Mauresmo (2) - added by Ashkor]

From the active ones maybe Muguruza can add another one. Others seem super unlikely to get there.

Going back to the beginning of the Open Era, there's only three more: Tracy Austin (2), Ann Haydon Jones (3), and Virginia Wade (3).

by meganfernandez Does this count as On Court?

by ashkor87 So now Kyrgios has a winning record against everyone in the top 10 except FAA...haven't checked but seems plausible ..only Federer and Murray have a winning record against him and they aren't in the top 10. Another reason to ignore top 10 and rankings in general..!

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:32 am So now Kyrgios has a winning record against everyone in the top 10 except FAA...haven't checked but seems plausible ..only Federer and Murray have a winning record against him and they aren't in the top 10. Another reason to ignore top 10 and rankings in general..!

Yep, a couple handfuls of big wins and very little to show for it. I don't think any of those players would trade careers with Nick.

by ashkor87 Yes, Frankly, I don't even like to watch him .awkward shots, ungainly movement...but his serve!!

by ashkor87 Just for fun, and to invite discussion, I have classified current WTA players thusly:
Reverently setting aside the immortals Serena and Venus:
A plus: great champions, will reign for a long time
Swiatek, Osaka
A: champions, may or may not rule again but have proven their calibre
Kerber, vika, Halep, Andreescu, Muguruza

A minus: on the cusp of greatness-
Sloane, kenin, Sabalenka, Raducanu, Leylah ,Coco
Am a bit unsure about Bencic and krejcikova..maybe should be here, maybe in B plus (though both have already shown big things)
B plus: excellent players, who could become champions with some luck and improvement
Rybakina, Alexandrova, Kasatkina,Anisimova
B: good players, will not win a major
Badosa, Sakkari, Jabeur, pliskova, Mertens, kontaveit, Collins, keys have I missed out anyone?!

by Deuce Ok, I'll bite...

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:30 am Just for fun, and to invite discussion, I have classified current WTA players thusly:
Reverently setting aside the immortals Serena and Venus:
A plus: great champions, will reign for a long time
Swiatek, Osaka

^ Swiatek is still an unknown in my book. She's the best player right now, and so the predictable tendency is for people to see the 'flavour of the month' as the greatest thing since sliced bread, and predict ongoing greatness. We see this all the time - sometimes the 'flavour of the month' does become great (Serena, Nadal)... Sometimes the 'flavour of the month' disappears (Bouchard, Andreescu) - and sometimes reappears after disappearing (Andreescu?)... But most often, the 'flavour of the month' comes back down to Earth and rejoins the pack, having a decent, but not outstanding, career.
I need to see another winning 12 to 24 months of Swiatek (she just turned 21) before I call her great.
As for Osaka - I've seen enough of her to say that the physical talent and potential is there... But I question her motivation and commitment to the game. She hasn't been the same since she had the 'problem with the media' and walked out of Roland Garros last year. That, plus her off-court involvements (fashion, photo shoots, 'famous' boyfriend, etc.) can certainly distract from her tennis (and already has, in my opinion). As well, her claiming that she doesn't want attention while at the same time doing several things which she absolutely knows will attract a lot of attention, paints the picture of a very confused human being. She is an intelligent individual and a profound thinker - but whether she becomes one of the great champions or not depends primarily on whether or not she can figure out who she is and what she wants.

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:30 am A: champions, may or may not rule again but have proven their calibre
Kerber, vika, Halep, Andreescu, Muguruza

^ I can mostly agree with this... except for Andreescu. As I've mentioned many times - and what almost everyone seems to either overlook or forget - she had a good 6 months 3 years ago. A good 6 months does not make a good career - just as a bad 6 months does not make a bad career. She has to show me more over the next couple of years before I can say that she has truly proven herself.

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:30 am A minus: on the cusp of greatness-
Sloane, kenin, Sabalenka, Raducanu, Leylah ,Coco
Am a bit unsure about Bencic and krejcikova..maybe should be here, maybe in B plus (though both have already shown big things)

^ Stephens is clearly on her way down, and not "on the cusp of greatness". Motivation certainly seems to be the main issue with her.
Kenin is a big question mark. How motivated/committed is she? From what I've seen, she doesn't seem in a hurry to get back to the top 10. I would not be surprised if she suddenly retires from tennis within the next year... nor would I be surprised if she wins a couple of more Majors.
Sabalenka has had infinite opportunities to become a dominant player, and hasn't pounced on any of those opportunities. I think her ship has sailed. She'll probably be a top 20 player for the next several years - but will never reach the potential her physical talent has. Simply put, she doesn't have the head to be a consistent top player.
Raducanu will settle in the rankings somewhere between #30 and #50 - a respectable career, but not close to being the stuff of champions. She'll have a few big wins over top 10/top 5 players here and there, but absolutely not anywhere near consistently. This is all IF she decides to actually participate and play, rather than continuing to retire from matches and withdraw from tournaments - and that's a big 'IF' at the moment.
Leylah won't make a habit of reaching Major Finals... but she'll have a good top 20 career, with some appearances in the top 10 once in a while.
Gauff will be similar to Leylah.

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:30 am B plus: excellent players, who could become champions with some luck and improvement
Rybakina, Alexandrova, Kasatkina,Anisimova

^ Ok - I can mostly agree with this assessment. Rybakina has a lot of talent... Alexandrova needs to develop a physically stronger body... I can't help but feel that Kasatkina has plateaued already... and Anisimova needs to get her head together. She's still young, so it's still possible (unlike with Sabalenka). If Amanda gets her head together, she can become the dominant player that Sabalenka could have been.

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:30 am B: good players, will not win a major
Badosa, Sakkari, Jabeur, pliskova, Mertens, kontaveit, Collins, keys have I missed out anyone?!

^ Ok, again... but Badosa might sneak out a Major at some point.

by ashkor87 Thanks for the very detailed comments!

by Suliso You guys are super conservative as far as potential of players is concerned. Everyone, but 2-3 players is max top 20 potential or on the way down. If so who do you think will win a lion's share of Slams in the next 5-7 years? Do you expect Swiatek and Osaka to win ca 10 Slams each then? Or maybe 15 almost random one Slam wonders?

by ashkor87 While it is a truism that anyone can win anything, the fact is 'anyone' doesn't...except for Krejcikova and Raducanu, perhaps..on the men's side, basically never..

by Suliso

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:05 am While it is a truism that anyone can win anything, the fact is 'anyone' doesn't...except for Krejcikova and Raducanu, perhaps..on the men's side, basically never..

Let me introduce you to Thomas Johansson and Albert Costa

by Suliso Flavia is also calling.

by Deuce

Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:40 am You guys are super conservative as far as potential of players is concerned. Everyone, but 2-3 players is max top 20 potential or on the way down. If so who do you think will win a lion's share of Slams in the next 5-7 years? Do you expect Swiatek and Osaka to win ca 10 Slams each then? Or maybe 15 almost random one Slam wonders?

I simply think that the WTA is entering an era where parity will reign. It's not going to be another 15 years of Serena-like - or even Navratilova/Evert-like - domination.
Therefore, the winners of Majors will be more evenly spread out with the current generation.

by ashkor87

Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:39 am
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:05 am While it is a truism that anyone can win anything, the fact is 'anyone' doesn't...except for Krejcikova and Raducanu, perhaps..on the men's side, basically never..
Let me introduce you to Thomas Johansson and Albert Costa
[/quot
Did 'anyone' win the French Open this year?! Despite all the talk about being so open..? The fact is, it is never really so open

by Suliso What do you mean with "anyone"? Thomas Johansson and Flavia Penetta were as close to anyone as you could possibly be. Of course still top 20 before, but no one was taking them seriously as potential Slam winners.

Of course not every year surprises happen. Clearly not this year so far.

by ashkor87

Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:36 am What do you mean with "anyone"? Thomas Johansson and Flavia Penetta were as close to anyone as you could possibly be. Of course still top 20 before, but no one was taking them seriously as potential Slam winners.

Of course not every year surprises happen. Clearly not this year so far.

Let us keep some perspective here..a couple of surprises in 20 years is ok..it is just that some people here are talking as if it is totally random..it isn't.

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:39 am
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:36 am What do you mean with "anyone"? Thomas Johansson and Flavia Penetta were as close to anyone as you could possibly be. Of course still top 20 before, but no one was taking them seriously as potential Slam winners.

Of course not every year surprises happen. Clearly not this year so far.
Let us keep some perspective here..a couple of surprises in 20 years is ok..it is just that some people here are talking as if it is totally random..it isn't.

Most examples have the benefit of hindsight, too. When Myskina, Sharapova, and Kuznetsova won Slams in 2004, it seemed random at the time, but turns out, two of them were legit champions. I'm guessing Myskina was, too, but maybe she was derailed with injuries? We just don't know about a lot of the current players. We only have impressions and guesses. Which is fun for some people its own kind of sport. But it's hard to use history as a gauge for that reason.

I wouldn't say anyone can win, meaning has a decent realistic shot. But I think many do, if things break right, both on and off the court. On the WTA side, whoever the current Flavias are (very solid and mature Top 20 players), I do think they have a realistic shot of winning a Slam for the time being.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:43 am
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:40 am You guys are super conservative as far as potential of players is concerned. Everyone, but 2-3 players is max top 20 potential or on the way down. If so who do you think will win a lion's share of Slams in the next 5-7 years? Do you expect Swiatek and Osaka to win ca 10 Slams each then? Or maybe 15 almost random one Slam wonders?
I simply think that the WTA is entering an era where parity will reign. It's not going to be another 15 years of Serena-like - or even Navratilova/Evert-like - domination.
Therefore, the winners of Majors will be more evenly spread out with the current generation.

It could have been. We could have been in an Osaka-Iga era, but alas. I think Leylah and Coco have the appetite and heart for it. Those two and Iga are still very young. Just not sure if Leylah is physically strong enough to have Top 2 or 3 results week in and week out. Do you think she is? Can she be overpowered?

We also don't know when the next Iga or Fernandez will show up. Someone could bust out like Iga next year.

by ashkor87 Ok here is a hold prediction: of the next 12 majors, Osaka and Swiatek will win at least 5 between them. I don't see the others challenging them if they are healthy.
Of course we won't know positively till 2025 but if it is not happening, we will know by the end of 2023. I will keep track, assuming I am still around by then!

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:36 pm Ok here is a hold prediction: of the next 12 majors, Osaka and Swiatek will win at least 5 between them. I don't see the others challenging them if they are healthy.
Of course we won't know positively till 2025 but if it is not happening, we will know by the end of 2023. I will keep track, assuming I am still around by then!

Healthy and engaged... Osaka has been mostly healthy, as far as we know, but (apparently) has not dedicated herself full-time, enough to play at her top level week in and week out. Not giving the full effort - said with zero judgment, just a neutral observation. Leylah beat Osaka last year at the Open, for instance. That shouldn't happen if Osaka is in full flight.

Anyway! We'll see. If they win 5 Slams together, I think 4 of them are Iga's. Hope I'm wrong! Trajectories can always change and maybe Osaka takes her rightful place at the top of the rankings again.

by patrick

Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:39 am Flavia is also calling.

Along with Bartoli

by patrick

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:46 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:36 pm Ok here is a hold prediction: of the next 12 majors, Osaka and Swiatek will win at least 5 between them. I don't see the others challenging them if they are healthy.
Of course we won't know positively till 2025 but if it is not happening, we will know by the end of 2023. I will keep track, assuming I am still around by then!
Healthy and engaged... Osaka has been mostly healthy, as far as we know, but (apparently) has not dedicated herself full-time, enough to play at her top level week in and week out. Not giving the full effort - said with zero judgment, just a neutral observation. Leylah beat Osaka last year at the Open, for instance. That shouldn't happen if Osaka is in full flight.

Anyway! We'll see. If they win 5 Slams together, I think 4 of them are Iga's. Hope I'm wrong! Trajectories can always change and maybe Osaka takes her rightful place at the top of the rankings again.

Her story reminds me of what the Williams Sisters did when they reach the top. The media questioned their commitment to tennis as they were doing off court activities.

by meganfernandez

patrick wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:02 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:39 am Flavia is also calling.
Along with Bartoli

Bartoli reached another Slam final... I tend to lump finalists and even consistent 2nd-weekers together, in terms of players who shouldn't be considered surprise winner.

by ponchi101 On the men's side, we forgot to mention Gaudio, Gomez, Gimeno and Krajicek, players that made one final, won it, and never came close to a second.
Swiatek is doing great, there is not doubt. But too early for GREAT. That bar has been moved, in both the WTA and ATP, to players with more than 5 slams. I say Osaka gets there (she will collect another USO or Aussie) but Swiatek is only at two, and both at RG. We have to give her time.
I am in the multiple ONE SLAM winners. I know Iga right now is 4000 points ahead from #2, but after that, they all have the same potential. So, if Iga stumbles anywhere, it is an open tournament. Everywhere.

by JazzNU

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:10 pm Does this count as On Court?

It could be, but that's not what the rumors suggest that they are and it will be an announcement for Off-Court.

by meganfernandez

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:44 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:10 pm Does this count as On Court?

It could be, but that's not what the rumors suggest that they are and it will be an announcement for Off-Court.

Baby Nadal on the way?

by ponchi101 My GF has been keeping and eye on that and Xisca seems to be in her fifth month. I have no idea were my GF gets the info, but in Spain that will be huge news.

by mmmm8 It's already been announced yesterday, Hola! magazine broke it

by JazzNU

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:56 pm It's already been announced yesterday, Hola! magazine broke it

What they've announced still amounts to gossip though. So there's expected to be an official word from the couple.

by ti-amie There was a bit of surprise by the fans at Ostapenko's on court comments today.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:41 pm There was a bit of surprise by the fans at Ostapenko's on court comments today.

^ That was from a couple of days ago after she beat Rebecca Marino in 3 sets, I believe, as she lost to Yastremska today.
And hopefully Yastremska said the same thing about Ostapenko today - Yastremska is certainly just as capable of these kinds of low class comments as is Ostapenko.

Ostapenko has every right in the world to say such things, and to have such an attitude.
And the rest of us have every right in the world to call her low class and disrespectful.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:11 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:43 am
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:40 am You guys are super conservative as far as potential of players is concerned. Everyone, but 2-3 players is max top 20 potential or on the way down. If so who do you think will win a lion's share of Slams in the next 5-7 years? Do you expect Swiatek and Osaka to win ca 10 Slams each then? Or maybe 15 almost random one Slam wonders?
I simply think that the WTA is entering an era where parity will reign. It's not going to be another 15 years of Serena-like - or even Navratilova/Evert-like - domination.
Therefore, the winners of Majors will be more evenly spread out with the current generation.
It could have been. We could have been in an Osaka-Iga era, but alas. I think Leylah and Coco have the appetite and heart for it. Those two and Iga are still very young. Just not sure if Leylah is physically strong enough to have Top 2 or 3 results week in and week out. Do you think she is? Can she be overpowered?

We also don't know when the next Iga or Fernandez will show up. Someone could bust out like Iga next year.

I think any physical weakness that Leylah may or may not have (real or perceived) is overcome by her desire.
That is to say that if she is lacking some physical strength as compared to other players, it is not of a great enough degree to not be compensated for (and then some) by her determination.

Two perfect examples of this are when she beat Osaka and Sabalenka days apart at the U.S. Open last year. Both Osaka and Sabalenka hit significantly harder than Leylah - but the difference in psychological strength between those two and Leylah was greater than the difference in physical strength between them.
Leylah has also beaten Pavlyuchenkova a couple of times - same sort of thing.

by MJ2004 Tennis players don't typically hold press conferences to announce pregnancies, no?

by ponchi101 If Rafa is pregnant, he MUST hold a conference...

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:If Rafa is pregnant, he MUST hold a conference...

POTD

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ashkor87 Yastremska and Ostapenko are so much like each other..! on the court, anyway.. each must have felt like she was playing herself..

by ponchi101 Well, confirmed. Rafa will play Wimbledon, and will be a father soon.

by ti-amie

Why should they let her practice there? Because she's his girlfriend?

by ponchi101 Plus, it is a private club.
Dennis is truly entitled. Can't say more.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:23 pm Plus, it is a private club.
Dennis is truly entitled. Can't say more.

I'm with Dennis. I don't care that they are private. Ridiculously rigid and I cant find a way for this to pass any reasonable smell test.

by ponchi101 Are they allowing the men to train there, prior to W?

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:Are they allowing the men to train there, prior to W?

I assume so and that’s why this came up. Not sure if it’s limited to those who entered the tournament or not.

My guess is he is practicing there because he played the event. So he’s a guest of the club. And she wasn’t allowed to practice with him or on another court because she isn’t. I understand not letting nonmembers have courts over members, period. But if they wouldn’t let her on court with him or use an empty court… wtf.

by Suliso Sorana Cirstea is a great example on how great a living you can make even on women's tour by just being steady for a long time. Two small titles, never been in the top 20, one GS QF, 32 years old and made 7 million $ from playing alone. No doubt also significant sponsor money for being pretty, but that's a different story.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:23 pm Sorana Cirstea is a great example on how great a living you can make even on women's tour by just being steady for a long time. Two small titles, never been in the top 20, one GS QF, 32 years old and made 7 million $ from playing alone. No doubt also significant sponsor money for being pretty, but that's a different story.

True. "Steady for a long time" is the best most players can hope for. Vast majority never become champions. Who's an equivalent on the ATP? Chardy? One 250 title, one GS QF, high ranking #25, 35 years old and made $10 million. Fell out of the Top 50 a year ago.

I'm surprised Cirstea never broke into the Top 20. I actually remember when she first got some buzz. Heard about her in Wertheim's column and picked her early in an SP and she won. A decade later, I have learned that there are a million flavors of the month who never have even Cirstea's level of success. Wickmayer and Barthel stick out to me as ones who landed on my radar (mostly for SP reasons

). You know, those players who got some hype and then a decade later you see them playing qualies and you're like, "Whatever happened to that person? And s/he's still around?"

I'm afraid Hyeon Chung is headed for that ending. Such a shame, he was so much fun to watch. Last guy to beat Novak in Melbourne.

by Suliso Chung seems to be more like Robson or Bellis. Completely derailed by injuries.

Chardy is a good pick. I probably wouldn't have thought of him myself.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:20 pm Chardy is a good pick. I probably wouldn't have thought of him myself.

I had to look up Chardy. I glanced at the list of active players with one or two titles.

Yeah, didn't mean to compare Chung to a Wickmayer or Barthel. Robson is a good comparison, showed that same level of potential. Chung is 26 - hope he isn't done.

by ashkor87 Watching some of these women like Bencic and Jabeur, who have made the semis and finals of tournament after tournament, it seems clear that WTA tournaments are harder on them than majors..in the majors, they get a day off between matches...for the men, it is made up for by the fact that the majors are 5 sets..for the women, that isn't the case...

by ashkor87 Suddenly Poland is a superpower in tennis! There were always top women of Polish descent like Kerber, Lisicki and Wozniacki but now Swiatek and Hurkacz!

by Suliso That always only goes back 15 years or so. Before there wasn't anything.

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:23 pm Sorana Cirstea is a great example on how great a living you can make even on women's tour by just being steady for a long time. Two small titles, never been in the top 20, one GS QF, 32 years old and made 7 million $ from playing alone. No doubt also significant sponsor money for being pretty, but that's a different story.

I remember in TAT1.0 somebody posted a pictures of her in a convertible Bentley, driving in Monaco.
Yep, that must be a just reward. She has been with New Balance now for a long time. I gather that must he a $500K contract, because, as you say, she is pretty. Add racquets and another thing here and there, and she must be pulling in $1MM/year. I would guess

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:03 pm That always only goes back 15 years or so. Before there wasn't anything.

So weird because Poland is surrounded by tennis powerhouses. Wonder why they didn't produce as many top players. Because it's not a wealthy country, I assume?

by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:06 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:03 pm That always only goes back 15 years or so. Before there wasn't anything.
So weird because Poland is surrounded by tennis powerhouses. Wonder why they didn't produce as many top players. Because it's not a wealthy country, I assume?

The cases of Woz and Lisicki suggest there may have been large-scale migration out of Poland, by people who could . I really don't know the recent history of Poland but maybe someone here does, and can enlighten us.

by Deuce "Raducanu's team will be mindful of all the savvy sponsorship deals and marketing campaigns she has astutely tapped into over the past eight months. They will no doubt bring her huge financial rewards, but at what cost to her body?"
- Judy Murray

Article here (written by Judy Murray)...

Judy Murray on Emma Raducanu...

.

by 3mlm

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:25 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:06 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:03 pm That always only goes back 15 years or so. Before there wasn't anything.
So weird because Poland is surrounded by tennis powerhouses. Wonder why they didn't produce as many top players. Because it's not a wealthy country, I assume?
The cases of Woz and Lisicki suggest there may have been large-scale migration out of Poland, by people who could . I really don't know the recent history of Poland but maybe someone here does, and can enlighten us.

Radwanska was also a pretty good Polish player whose highest ranking was #2.

Wozniacki's parents moved from Poland to Denmark before she was born because her father signed with the Danish football club Boldklubben 1909.

Lisicki's parents moved from Poland to Germany in 1979 under a German law allowing people who descended from German nationals of any ethnicity to return to Germany and reclaim German citizenship. They were descended from German citizens who lived in the former eastern territories of Germany which had become part of Poland after World War II. Her mother is Polish and her father is German and Polish.

by ashkor87 thanks.. what is the story of Kerber? I believe she is half Polish, possibly on her mother's side..?

by ti-amie

by Deuce I've 'transplanted' this discussion (in my simpleton 'copy & paste' manner) from the 'Birmingham' thread, in case it becomes an ongoing discussion, and because it does not relate only to the Birmingham tournament, of course, but to tennis in general...
Those with the 'power' to do so can also transplant posts #63, #64, and #65 from the Birmingham thread if they wish to for added context here, and place them above this post.

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:06 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:58 am
Deuce wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:51 am 2 women's Finals yesterday, and 2 in-match retirements.
The disturbing trend continues...
nothing to be disturbed about.. players not taking chances before Wimbledon, that is all, I suspect..
Of course not. I'd say it's even more justified than "playing it safe" - Bencic rolled her ankle and Zhang was playing her second match of the day (and had played a lot of doubles). There's no reason to think a 33-year-old professional athlete was being a baby and just didn't feel like playing anymore. She wouldn't have withdrawn from the doubles final later that day lightly. Obviously she felt she needed to do it and doesn't deserve to be second-guessed.

I completely - and strongly - disagree with you on this, Megan.

If a player enters the singles and doubles draw in a tournament, that player should absolutely be ready to play every match in singles and doubles right through to the Final. If they are not ready to do that - or if they don't believe they'll be able to do that, then they SHOULD NOT ENTER BOTH DRAWS!!
It's a very simple equation.

If you take to the court, you take to the court to give your best effort until the match is finished - NOT just until it becomes 'inconvenient' or 'uncomfortable' for you.
The coach of a current pro player told me a few weeks ago "Pain and discomfort are normal things that happen to every player, and you should play through them. Legitimate injury is a different matter."

It's highly disturbing how these millionaires seem to think more and more that every match they are scheduled to play is OPTIONAL! It's ridiculous. They are so spoiled - by the amount of money they make in winnings and in endorsements, and by being treated as demi-gods everywhere they go - that they feel they owe NOTHING to the fans (who certainly help to pay their winnings), or to the sport itself.

Again - barring serious injury or urgent circumstance, if you're not prepared to play every match that you're scheduled to play during a tournament in every draw you've entered... then DON'T PLAY THE TOURNAMENT.
Simple.
It used to be like this - when the players respected the game and its fans.

Again - we didn't see this BS 30 or 40 years ago, and longer. It's something that is exclusive to the recent generation(s) of players - and I, personally, am convinced that it is directly related to the huge increase in money in tennis AND to the fact that players are now treated as demi-gods.
I've been playing and watching tennis for 40 years, and I cannot believe that professional tennis is that much more physically taxing for players today that it is not compensated for by the huge increase in training and in fitness levels and in fitness equipment over 30 and 40 years ago. No way. At best, it comes to even. At worst, the players of today have the advantage because they train much more and much better than the players of yesterday.

Here's an article from 10 years ago, when people began noticing it becoming a serious problem. Now, 10 years later, it's still a serious problem - more so in the WTA than the ATP at the moment...

From the article:
"Time was, a player retired during a match not because he didn't want to go on, but because he couldn't go on. Or, in trying to continue, he or she ran risk of incurring a serious, career-ending injury. ...a player assumes certain obligations and responsibilities, and reaps certain rewards. One of those obligations is to give a full and honest effort every time he or she sets foot on a court. The players have a contractual obligation to give the ticket-buying public its money's worth, in terms of effort expended if not necessarily time spent. And they also owe their opponents the right to get a win that ends with a numeral, not the abbreviation 'RET.'"

Article here:
Player Retirements Are a Problem...

.

by 3mlm If the withdrawal problem is related to the "huge increase in money in tennis," why is the problem more serious in the WTA than the ATP since ATP tournaments have much higher prize money than WTA tournaments?

Note that slams, which have equal pay for men and women, are not ATP or WTA tournaments.

by Deuce

3mlm wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:00 am If the withdrawal problem is related to the "huge increase in money in tennis," why is the problem more serious in the WTA than the ATP since ATP tournaments have much higher prize money than WTA tournaments?

Note that slams, which have equal pay for men and women, are not ATP or WTA tournaments.

I think maybe the worst offenders fluctuate between the WTA and the ATP. Right now, the WTA is worse with regards to in-match retirements and withdrawals. Maybe in 2 months, the ATP will be worse. (The article I linked to above mentions both the ATP and WTA, but focuses more on in-match retirements on the ATP side.)

Either way, even if the women are making less than the men, that was also the case in the past... So nothing has changed in relative terms. Even factoring in the cost of living change over the years, the women players today are still making LOADS more than the women players of 30 and 40 years ago were making (the women players today are making more than the MALE players were making back then, as well) - and so my reasoning stands because the difference in pay is relative to 30, 40 years ago when there were only a tiny fraction of today's in-match retirements and withdrawals.

Another possible reason for there being more in the WTA now could be that maybe more men think it's 'not macho' to retire/withdraw, and are perhaps afraid of developing a reputation of being 'weak'. For some men, a 'macho ego' is very prevalent.

by ashkor87

Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:56 am I've 'transplanted' this discussion (in my simpleton 'copy & paste' manner) from the 'Birmingham' thread, in case it becomes an ongoing discussion, and because it does not relate only to the Birmingham tournament, of course, but to tennis in general...
Those with the 'power' to do so can also transplant posts #63, #64, and #65 from the Birmingham thread if they wish to for added context here, and place them above this post.

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:06 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:58 am
nothing to be disturbed about.. players not taking chances before Wimbledon, that is all, I suspect..
Of course not. I'd say it's even more justified than "playing it safe" - Bencic rolled her ankle and Zhang was playing her second match of the day (and had played a lot of doubles). There's no reason to think a 33-year-old professional athlete was being a baby and just didn't feel like playing anymore. She wouldn't have withdrawn from the doubles final later that day lightly. Obviously she felt she needed to do it and doesn't deserve to be second-guessed.
I completely - and strongly - disagree with you on this, Megan.

If a player enters the singles and doubles draw in a tournament, that player should absolutely be ready to play every match in singles and doubles right through to the Final. If they are not ready to do that - or if they don't believe they'll be able to do that, then they SHOULD NOT ENTER BOTH DRAWS!!
It's a very simple equation.

If you take to the court, you take to the court to give your best effort until the match is finished - NOT just until it becomes 'inconvenient' or 'uncomfortable' for you.
The coach of a current pro player told me a few weeks ago "Pain and discomfort are normal things that happen to every player, and you should play through them. Legitimate injury is a different matter."

It's highly disturbing how these millionaires seem to think more and more that every match they are scheduled to play is OPTIONAL! It's ridiculous. They are so spoiled - by the amount of money they make in winnings and in endorsements, and by being treated as demi-gods everywhere they go - that they feel they owe NOTHING to the fans (who certainly help to pay their winnings), or to the sport itself.

Again - barring serious injury or urgent circumstance, if you're not prepared to play every match that you're scheduled to play during a tournament in every draw you've entered... then DON'T PLAY THE TOURNAMENT.
Simple.
It used to be like this - when the players respected the game and its fans.

Again - we didn't see this BS 30 or 40 years ago, and longer. It's something that is exclusive to the recent generation(s) of players - and I, personally, am convinced that it is directly related to the huge increase in money in tennis AND to the fact that players are now treated as demi-gods.
I've been playing and watching tennis for 40 years, and I cannot believe that professional tennis is that much more physically taxing for players today that it is not compensated for by the huge increase in training and in fitness levels and in fitness equipment over 30 and 40 years ago. No way. At best, it comes to even. At worst, the players of today have the advantage because they train much more and much better than the players of yesterday.

Here's an article from 10 years ago, when people began noticing it becoming a serious problem. Now, 10 years later, it's still a serious problem - more so in the WTA than the ATP at the moment...

From the article:
"Time was, a player retired during a match not because he didn't want to go on, but because he couldn't go on. Or, in trying to continue, he or she ran risk of incurring a serious, career-ending injury. ...a player assumes certain obligations and responsibilities, and reaps certain rewards. One of those obligations is to give a full and honest effort every time he or she sets foot on a court. The players have a contractual obligation to give the ticket-buying public its money's worth, in terms of effort expended if not necessarily time spent. And they also owe their opponents the right to get a win that ends with a numeral, not the abbreviation 'RET.'"

Article here:
Player Retirements Are a Problem...

.

yes, times and more have changed, I guess... I remember a Davis Cup match between India and Australia when an Australian Mal Anderson fractured (fractured!) his ankle and kept playing - not only did he keep playing, he did not even show by any gesture or limp that anything was wrong, didnt want to encourage his opponent! Of course, he never played again after that, not sure how long it took him to walk again!

by meganfernandez Apostolos Tsitsipas wins!

After Wimbledon, coaching will be allowed across the sport, including the US Open, on a trial basis. And it looks like during the whole match, not once or twice at designated times. I'm guessing I'm the only one happy about coaching trail ... and it's happening at the US Open. What a huge shift in the game. Interested to see how it goes. It says the WTA already has off-court coaching place? I didn't know that? BTW, looks like they define "off court" as the coach staying in her or his seat, not that the talk happens off-court.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/off-cou ... trial-2022

by ponchi101

3mlm wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:00 am If the withdrawal problem is related to the "huge increase in money in tennis," why is the problem more serious in the WTA than the ATP since ATP tournaments have much higher prize money than WTA tournaments?

Note that slams, which have equal pay for men and women, are not ATP or WTA tournaments.

Which is an excellent question and supports my position: WHY is this happening? Is it happening? We may be right now in a confirmation bias position and, as we noticed it once, we are now noticing all the time. If the tours had real, solid data about an increase in retirements, then your question, and others, need to be addressed.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:26 pm Apostolos Tsitsipas wins!

After Wimbledon, coaching will be allowed across the sport, including the US Open, on a trial basis. And it looks like during the whole match, not once or twice at designated times. I'm guessing I'm the only one happy about coaching trail ... and it's happening at the US Open. What a huge shift in the game. Interested to see how it goes. It says the WTA already has off-court coaching place? I didn't know that? BTW, looks like they define "off court" as the coach staying in her or his seat, not that the talk happens off-court.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/off-cou ... trial-2022

You nailed it. What a farce.
From the article:
Off-court coaching will be permitted under the following conditions:

Coaches must sit in the tournament’s designated coach seats
Coaching (verbal and non-verbal) is allowed only if it does not interrupt play or create any hindrance to the opponent
Verbal coaching is permitted only when the player is at the same end of the court
Non-verbal coaching (hand signals) is permitted at any time
Verbal coaching may consist of a few words and/or short phrases (no conversations are permitted)
Coaches may not speak to their player when the player leaves the court for any reason
Penalties and fines will still apply for abuse or misuse of the above coaching conditions

End quote.
Are they really nuts? They can't enforce or even patrol verbal abuse and other blatant violations of the rules, and they are now saying that they will penalize the abuse of coaching? First thing, define ABUSE OF COACHING.
I hope this fails miserably.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 4:28 pm
3mlm wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:00 am If the withdrawal problem is related to the "huge increase in money in tennis," why is the problem more serious in the WTA than the ATP since ATP tournaments have much higher prize money than WTA tournaments?

Note that slams, which have equal pay for men and women, are not ATP or WTA tournaments.
Which is an excellent question and supports my position: WHY is this happening? Is it happening? We may be right now in a confirmation bias position and, as we noticed it once, we are now noticing all the time. If the tours had real, solid data about an increase in retirements, then your question, and others, need to be addressed.

I'm very unconvinced that this is actually a problem or happening. I think it's an area of interest among some fans, and some confirmation bias has turned perception into a reality here. And it just ignores logic. These players are competitive beasts or they wouldn't even be there. They want to win matches and titles more than we want to watch matches. They have more agency than anyone judging them. In 2015, Jeff Sackman crunched some data based on similar perceptions, and he found no real issue. In fact, the numbers showed the opposition of the perception.

The whole things smells like the age-old dismissal of women in the healthcare system, blowing off their legitimate concerns and observations about their own bodies and minds. Saying Zhang could and should have played on isn't too far removed from doctors gaslighting women about their health.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 4:32 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:26 pm Apostolos Tsitsipas wins!

After Wimbledon, coaching will be allowed across the sport, including the US Open, on a trial basis. And it looks like during the whole match, not once or twice at designated times. I'm guessing I'm the only one happy about coaching trail ... and it's happening at the US Open. What a huge shift in the game. Interested to see how it goes. It says the WTA already has off-court coaching place? I didn't know that? BTW, looks like they define "off court" as the coach staying in her or his seat, not that the talk happens off-court.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/off-cou ... trial-2022
You nailed it. What a farce.
From the article:
Off-court coaching will be permitted under the following conditions:

Coaches must sit in the tournament’s designated coach seats
Coaching (verbal and non-verbal) is allowed only if it does not interrupt play or create any hindrance to the opponent
Verbal coaching is permitted only when the player is at the same end of the court
Non-verbal coaching (hand signals) is permitted at any time
Verbal coaching may consist of a few words and/or short phrases (no conversations are permitted)
Coaches may not speak to their player when the player leaves the court for any reason
Penalties and fines will still apply for abuse or misuse of the above coaching conditions

End quote.
Are they really nuts? They can't enforce or even patrol verbal abuse and other blatant violations of the rules, and they are now saying that they will penalize the abuse of coaching? First thing, define ABUSE OF COACHING.
I hope this fails miserably.

If the ATP is giving in to Stefanos Tsitsipas and his father what's next? Will the ATP follow the WTA and reduce the number of sets for an ATP player in a Slam to three, thus making the Slams "Major" in name only?

This is the first step in admitting that the "Next Gen" players aren't able to navigate their way through a three set match let alone a five setter.

I hope that this fails too.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:54 pm ...

If the ATP is giving in to Stefanos Tsitsipas and his father what's next? Will the ATP follow the WTA and reduce the number of sets for an ATP player in a Slam to three, thus making the Slams "Major" in name only?

This is the first step in admitting that the "Next Gen" players aren't able to navigate their way through a three set match let alone a five setter.

I hope that this fails too.

I had not even thought of that. Exactly.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 4:45 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 4:28 pm
3mlm wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:00 am If the withdrawal problem is related to the "huge increase in money in tennis," why is the problem more serious in the WTA than the ATP since ATP tournaments have much higher prize money than WTA tournaments?

Note that slams, which have equal pay for men and women, are not ATP or WTA tournaments.
Which is an excellent question and supports my position: WHY is this happening? Is it happening? We may be right now in a confirmation bias position and, as we noticed it once, we are now noticing all the time. If the tours had real, solid data about an increase in retirements, then your question, and others, need to be addressed.
I'm very unconvinced that this is actually a problem or happening. I think it's an area of interest among some fans, and some confirmation bias has turned perception into a reality here. And it just ignores logic. These players are competitive beasts or they wouldn't even be there. They want to win matches and titles more than we want to watch matches. They have more agency than anyone judging them. In 2015, Jeff Sackman crunched some data based on similar perceptions, and he found no real issue. In fact, the numbers showed the opposition of the perception.

The whole things smells like the age-old dismissal of women in the healthcare system, blowing off their legitimate concerns and observations about their own bodies and minds. Saying Zhang could and should have played on isn't too far removed from doctors gaslighting women about their health.

It's very unfortunate that you're trying to twist this issue into an 'anti-female' thing, Megan - and, frankly, I find that angle to be completely ridiculous, and not one that I appreciate.
I'll question ANY player who quits mid-match or withdraws due to something that is far less than apparent - and I have certainly done that with male players. Right now, WTA players are doing it more, and so my comments are about what is occurring now.

As for your assertion that observing that in-match retirements and withdrawals are occurring more now than 30 or 40 years ago "defies logic" - no... it's actually very logical, as it has been proven many, many times throughout history that money is a very significant factor in motivating people. And once one has enough money to live a life of luxury for the remainder of one's existence - as is the case with many pro tennis players - there is much less need for money, and so the motivation to perform the task for which they are financially compensated very often declines noticeably.
Of course, there are always exceptions - people who play the sport - whatever sport - for 'the love of the game'. But, as salaries and winnings in pro sports increase, these exceptions are fewer and fewer.

Many athletes in other sports have been accused of not giving full efforts, or of sitting out with injuries longer than needed, etc., because they have enough money so as to not care about the sport or its fans. It's unfortunate - and 'defies logic' - that you feel tennis players should be immune to the same questioning/criticisms as pro athletes in other sports face.

by Deuce As for the coaching circumstance... I see it as the ATP simply doing what the WTA has been doing for a few years now - and I don't think it's a big deal.

I've often said over the years that I found it ridiculous - and disrespectful to the women players - that in-match coaching is permitted for the women, but not for the men - as this sends the rather clear message that women require outside in-match help more than men do. I don't believe that women require in-match coaching help more than men do - not at all. Add the fact that most of the coaches in the WTA are men, and the message is even worse: that women require outside help FROM MEN, where men don't require outside help at all. I think that's absurd and is insulting to the women players.

If they want to allow coaching only for a certain segment of players, then that segment should be young players under a certain age - pick an age - 20, 21, whatever - BOTH MALE AND FEMALE.
Otherwise, as I've said many times, either allow coaching in both the WTA and ATP, or don't allow coaching in both the WTA and ATP.
Now, with coaching being permitted in the ATP on a similar level as it is in the WTA, they are finally evening out the playing field, which I think is a good thing that was overdue. Whether it was evened out by allowing coaching in the ATP, or removing coaching in the WTA isn't that important in my view, as long as it's the same for both.

retirements_WTA.jpg

by Deuce ^ A link to the source of that info would be nice to have...
The percentages are not consistent with my memory - but whether it's my memory or those stats which is inaccurate, I don't know.

What I would like to see are the in-match retirements and in-tournament withdrawals from about 1980 until now (for both men and women). As the article I linked to a few posts ago notes, we didn't see this number of retirements and withdrawals back a while ago.

And then there's this - from ONE TOURNAMENT this year - which certainly paints a picture either of a group of players who lack commitment, or of an extremely physically fragile group of players...

by ponchi101 https://data.world/tylerudite/wta-match-data

by Deuce This is a treat for those who followed tennis at this time... and even more of a treat for those who were not following tennis at this time (through fault of having not yet been born, perhaps).
It shows tennis back before it was all about power... before every player became allergic to the net... Back when players used variety and creativity on the court...

This is the best of the McEnroe vs. Connors battles from the U.S. Open over the years.
Pat Summerall and Tony Trabert are the commentators (with a little John Newcombe thrown in at times).
Wonderful stuff...

by meganfernandez "SO messed up"

by ponchi101 And she did have other options.

by ponchi101 Connors with a 62 sqin T-2000, Mac with a 68 sqin painted Jack Kramer.

by Deuce Come on... Vandeweghe is not exactly the poster girl for good sportsmanship.
She is actually the poster girl for 'in your face tennis'!
She herself is more than capable of doing the same thing to an opponent - and quite likely has done so on occasion - and she would call it 'just normal tennis - what's the big deal?'
Or maybe she did something disrespectful previously in that match.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:50 pm And she did have other options.

I was only quoting Coco in case people couldn't hear what she said. She said "SO messed up" twice.

by ashkor87 I always wonder why doubles isn't more popular ..most people play doubles, not singles..a good doubles match can be much more interesting tactically, not to mention faster-paced, than a singles match...singles can actually be boringly repetitive, the exact same thing happens point after point..I personally love to watch doubles...there really should be more money in it!

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:54 pm I always wonder why doubles isn't more popular ..most people play doubles, not singles..a good doubles match can be much more interesting tactically, not to mention faster-paced, than a singles match...singles can actually be boringly repetitive, the exact same thing happens point after point..I personally love to watch doubles...there really should be more money in it!

Yes, the big mystery. The best explanation I've heard is that doubles is too fast for the average fan, especially men's doubles. Now, with more singles players playing doubles (esp women), there are more rallies. I don't want to see a ton of dull crosscourt rallies, but a few shots before someone comes to net is a nice pace, mixed in. I love watching a great doubles match. Prefer women's to men's because men's is a lot of serve+volley, done. Hsieh and Strycova were a ton of fun to watch. Stosur is fun to watch.

Agree that a lot of singles matches are one-dimensional and not very exciting for the average fan.

by ponchi101 Doubles simply gets no more money because of the market. People, right or wrong, don't watch it. I, for example, not only do not like to play doubles, I also am not very thrilled to watch it. It is fun, the points are sometimes superb, but it does not capture me.
And, unfortunately, as long as the top players no longer play doubles AT THE SLAMS, it will be a side dish. And with the men playing best of 5, it is impossible for them to also add doubles during two weeks, if they plan to go far.
This is a business, and a lot of decisions are made considering the bottom line.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:Doubles simply gets no more money because of the market. People, right or wrong, don't watch it. I, for example, not only do not like to play doubles, I also am not very thrilled to watch it. It is fun, the points are sometimes superb, but it does not capture me.
And, unfortunately, as long as the top players no longer play doubles AT THE SLAMS, it will be a side dish. And with the men playing best of 5, it is impossible for them to also add doubles during two weeks, if they plan to go far.
This is a business, and a lot of decisions are made considering the bottom line.

The convo was about why it’s not more popular with the fans who play dubs a lot.

by ponchi101 Then, maybe because they play doubles because singles is too tough? It is still a puzzling question.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:Then, maybe because they play doubles because singles is too tough? It is still a puzzling question.

No, no… never mind.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:29 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:54 pm I always wonder why doubles isn't more popular ..most people play doubles, not singles..a good doubles match can be much more interesting tactically, not to mention faster-paced, than a singles match...singles can actually be boringly repetitive, the exact same thing happens point after point..I personally love to watch doubles...there really should be more money in it!
Yes, the big mystery. The best explanation I've heard is that doubles is too fast for the average fan, especially men's doubles. Now, with more singles players playing doubles (esp women), there are more rallies. I don't want to see a ton of dull crosscourt rallies, but a few shots before someone comes to net is a nice pace, mixed in. I love watching a great doubles match. Prefer women's to men's because men's is a lot of serve+volley, done. Hsieh and Strycova were a ton of fun to watch. Stosur is fun to watch.

Agree that a lot of singles matches are one-dimensional and not very exciting for the average fan.

I prefer women's doubles to men's also, I can relate to it, what the men play is beyond most of us mortals..
And tactically a lot more fun than men's .mixed doubles I am not so sure, they just tend to attack the woman..not so interesting tactically

by Deuce Doubles ain't what it used to be.
It used to be lots of fun to watch Edberg/Jarryd... Denton/Curren... McEnroe/Fleming... McNamara/McNamee... That was the golden age of doubles. Even the 'Woodies' later on...

But then things changed, and 'doubles specialists' came in... and they changed the scoring to cater to those with short attention spans (no ad, no 3rd set...).
No - it just isn't what it used to be... and it's a shame, because doubles is both similar enough and different enough to singles that it's a skill game of its own.
I love playing doubles when all 4 players play at a decent level - that's a lot of fun. Playing 'social doubles' bores me beyond precedent, though.

by Cuckoo4Coco I enjoy Women's Doubles way more than Men's Double's matches. The Men's matches seem to not have the rallies as much as the women's matches do, especially at the net. I especially love the matches where Coco and Caty are playing.

by the Moz Doubles deserves more respect please and thank you.

by ponchi101 As I said above, I don't like to play doubles. But I should qualify that.
The reason is simple: when I butcher a volley on break point in singles, my bad. My point, my match. No problems. When I butcher the same volley in doubles, I feel like a worthless worm, and fully expect my partner to call for an executioner and decapitate me. It adds a little extra pressure that I am not very fond of.
But, as a serve and volleyer, it was great practice and I get it that it is almost a totally different game. It can be very fulfilling.

by Cuckoo4Coco I find that I enjoy watching a good doubles match much better than playing in one. I rarely play doubles because it really does not suit my style of baseline play at all. Even on my school team I am only a Singles player. Now in a pinch I would play, but we luckily have enough girls on the team. We have the boys #1 & 2 singles players, boys #1 & 2 doubles teams, and a girls #1 & 2 singles, and girls #1 & 2 doubles teams. There is also one Mixed doubles team.

by Deuce I haven't seen a post about this - so I'll post it, because I think it's significant...

A big 'BRAVO' to Jodie Burrage - she is an unheladed British player playing in her home tournament - but that didn't distract her from doing the right thing (with help from some Percy Pigs!)...

Player Comes to the Aid of Fainting Ballboy...

.

by ponchi101 At the opposite end:
Wimbledon 2022: Nick Kyrgios spits at fan, blasts 'old-man' line judge for missed call

Problem for me is that this is happening at almost every match involving Kyrgios. And if it happens at every one of your matches, but not at the matches of other players, it is hard not to reach a certain conclusion.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:54 pm At the opposite end:
Wimbledon 2022: Nick Kyrgios spits at fan, blasts 'old-man' line judge for missed call

Problem for me is that this is happening at almost every match involving Kyrgios. And if it happens at every one of your matches, but not at the matches of other players, it is hard not to reach a certain conclusion.

The hypocrisy is stunning. Says "fans disrepsected me" and then calls the line judge an old man.

This wasn't racial slurs, which has happened in the past, and he shouldn't have to tolerate any of that. He would be right to confront it, if he wants to. But this was garden-variety "disrespect." In the past, I have felt bad for Nick's obvious insecurities that are exposed in an individual sport, but I don't anymore. He's old enough to be accountable for his actions and decisions now.

by Cuckoo4Coco That is awesome of what Jodie Burrage did to help that ball boy.

I don't respect ANYONE who would spit at another person. That is so sickening and disrespectful. Fans do sometimes go over the line with things they say and that isn't right but players are the professionals in the situation and should handle things in a better way then spitting at another person.

There are certain players that just don't seem to have a handle on this at all and Nick seems to be one of those players. There are also players who can block it out and move right past it or seem to address it in a much better way like in a post interview or something like that. Not by spitting at the person. That just makes him look just as much like an idiot as the fan is.

by ponchi101 The problem for me is that the guy's tennis is out of this world. But then he pulls this kind of behavior and it makes it impossible to root for him.
And as you say: spitting on somebody? I don't care if the match was over. The AELTC should fine him, and heavily.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:12 pm The problem for me is that the guy's tennis is out of this world. But then he pulls this kind of behavior and it makes it impossible to root for him.
And as you say: spitting on somebody? I don't care if the match was over. The AELTC should fine him, and heavily.

Spitting on someone is completely disgusting. I bet you 1000% if he spitting on or at the chair judge he would be fined heavily and possibly thrown out of the tournament.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:12 pm The problem for me is that the guy's tennis is out of this world. But then he pulls this kind of behavior and it makes it impossible to root for him.
And as you say: spitting on somebody? I don't care if the match was over. The AELTC should fine him, and heavily.

Spitting ON someone would be horrible. I thought he spat in their direction, like onto the court?

by ponchi101 Yes, it was on the direction, onto the court. Improper wording from me.

by Cuckoo4Coco I mean I guess that is better but still disgusting. I hate spitting in general.

by ponchi101 Fastest way to woo a woman.
Not.

by ti-amie

by Cuckoo4Coco I don't know about zero pressure heading into the US Open for Emma but she is kinda right that she is only 19 and that is the time to be all loosey-goosey and go into the tournament and have a blast with it all. I know she has the task to defend the championship but she in my opinion is doing it with the right attitude.

by ponchi101 Uhm... both valid points. But I side with Emma. She is really only 19, with a wonderful life. If she really feels no pressure, good for her.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:Uhm... both valid points. But I side with Emma. She is really only 19, with a wonderful life. If she really feels no pressure, good for her.

Yeah, I’d side with… the person themselves. Not the complete stranger who can’t relate to her.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by JTContinental I side with her, but I don't believe her that she's feeling no pressure.

by ponchi101

JTContinental wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:53 pm I side with her, but I don't believe her that she's feeling no pressure.

The reason I said IF...

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:06 pm

Yes... it seems rather obvious to me that this is Emma's attempt to deflect the pressure by pretending (at least publicly) that it doesn't exist.

If she has felt no pressure to win after the U.S. Open, then why is her post U.S. Open record so poor? Loads of 1st and 2nd round losses, along with many withdrawals and in-match retirements.
Remember - this is a player who, by her own admission, was so emotionally overwhelmed by finding herself winning a few rounds at Wimbledon last year that she was hyperventilating and had to quit in the middle of a match.
With each win at Wimbledon last year, she was under more and more pressure to win her next match (thanks mostly to the media, who were desperately looking for a 'hometown hero'). And that pressure obviously affected her and resulted in her having to retire from a match because of anxiety.

That circumstance at Wimbledon made her U.S. Open win only a couple of months later all the more impressive - and full credit to her for that, absolutely.
But I don't believe for a second that she feels no pressure now - not only at the upcoming U.S. Open, but at all tournaments. And her poor results seem to confirm that.

by Cuckoo4Coco I feel every single player on that tour feels some sort of pressure going into any tournament unless it is some sort of exhibition or something like that. I don't care what age the player is or if they never won a match in their life or have won 10 Grand Slams. They still have some sort of pressure going into a tournament.

Heck, I feel pressure in the tournaments I play and they are just for a trophy not a huge amount of money. I also think having a little bit of pressure doesn't mean you can't have fun at a tournament as well and enjoy the experience of it. I think Emma is going to do that too.

by ponchi101 I know I am a severely nervous person, but: this sport is as if some sick, twisted, maniacal pervert designed it to IMPART pressure on you. It has got to be the sole sport in which you can be crushing your opponent, be one point away from winning, and lose the match, despite scoring many, many more points (Sabatini Vs MJ Fernandez at RG).
If she says it, fine. You don't want the locker room to be saying "oh, Emma is under pressure, this is a good time to play her". But sure, if she really felt no pressure today playing at CC as the clear crowd favorite, she should quit tennis and become a mental strength guru. I'll buy the book.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:24 pm I know I am a severely nervous person, but: this sport is as if some sick, twisted, maniacal pervert designed it to IMPART pressure on you. It has got to be the sole sport in which you can be crushing your opponent, be one point away from winning, and lose the match, despite scoring many, many more points (Sabatini Vs MJ Fernandez at RG).
If she says it, fine. You don't want the locker room to be saying "oh, Emma is under pressure, this is a good time to play her". But sure, if she really felt no pressure today playing at CC as the clear crowd favorite, she should quit tennis and become a mental strength guru. I'll buy the book.

I think she meant doesn't feel extra pressure, beyond what's normal for any tennis player. The special pressure to live up to these new expectations. Not that she doesn't feel any pressure at all playing matches.

by Deuce Anyone who wins a Major has a target on their back for a while. And this is especially true if you are young and you come out of nowhere to win a Major. Even Leylah, as a Finalist who beat several top players along the way has had a target on her back ever since.
This is because the older, more established players resent the fact that these kids came from nowhere and achieved what the older players wanted to achieve.

And that creates a pressure that is in addition to the media pressure and the pressure/expectations from fans.

I agree that if Emma doesn't feel all of that additional pressure, then she has tapped into something truly magical. But I don't believe for a second that that is the case.

by Cuckoo4Coco I am going to try and put a kids(teens) view on this Emma no pressure thing.

Teens have this happy go lucky way of thinking or everything is a complete doomsville attitude when it comes to just about everything. I think you can all relate if you have raised a teenager like me who at one minute can be bouncing around the house with no cares in the world and then the next minute it is like the world is ending. I think it is just the way we are wired.

Emma, Leylah & Coco although they have a lot more responsibilities than me but still they all have parents and families taken care of a lot of the crap that goes along with the pressures of being a professional tennis player. Yeah they still have to go out on the court and play the matches and that has to be normal pressure like any sports competition is but it also has to be a blast being a teen and playing a game at the level they play it at and in many ways I think they see it that way.

I love the attitude that Emma has and if it makes her feel awesome going into these tournaments than more power to her.

by ponchi101

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:35 pm ...a teenager like me who at one minute can be bouncing around the house with no cares in the world and then the next minute it is like the world is ending. I think it is just the way we are wired.

...

And I got me some bad news for you, sunshine (1). I have known 40 yo "grown ups" that still behave that way. It is not only a teenage thing; some people are just like that.

Off Topic

(1) Quote from a song.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:57 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:35 pm ...a teenager like me who at one minute can be bouncing around the house with no cares in the world and then the next minute it is like the world is ending. I think it is just the way we are wired.

...
And I got me some bad news for you, sunshine (1). I have known 40 yo "grown ups" that still behave that way. It is not only a teenage thing; some people are just like that.

Off Topic
(1) Quote from a song.

I guess that does happen too.

by ptmcmahon

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:57 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:35 pm ...a teenager like me who at one minute can be bouncing around the house with no cares in the world and then the next minute it is like the world is ending. I think it is just the way we are wired.

...
And I got me some bad news for you, sunshine (1). I have known 40 yo "grown ups" that still behave that way. It is not only a teenage thing; some people are just like that.

Off Topic
(1) Quote from a song.

I'm a 42 year old who just bounced up the stairs in the middle of doing laundry and then stubbed my toe. I've live all these emotions in the last minute

Although often yes feel like the world is ending for serious reasons often too.

by ponchi101 And let's not even mention how one feels after your SP pick loses 8-10 in a fifth set TB

by Deuce

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:35 pm I am going to try and put a kids(teens) view on this Emma no pressure thing.

Teens have this happy go lucky way of thinking or everything is a complete doomsville attitude when it comes to just about everything. I think you can all relate if you have raised a teenager like me who at one minute can be bouncing around the house with no cares in the world and then the next minute it is like the world is ending. I think it is just the way we are wired.

Emma, Leylah & Coco although they have a lot more responsibilities than me but still they all have parents and families taken care of a lot of the crap that goes along with the pressures of being a professional tennis player. Yeah they still have to go out on the court and play the matches and that has to be normal pressure like any sports competition is but it also has to be a blast being a teen and playing a game at the level they play it at and in many ways I think they see it that way.

I love the attitude that Emma has and if it makes her feel awesome going into these tournaments than more power to her.

Well... whatever and however Emma is feeling, it's not working when it comes to her tennis.
I don't know her, and so I don't know if she needs to take her tennis more seriously, or if she needs to be more loose and 'have no cares'... but something definitely needs to change if she is to have further success in pro tennis.

If she doesn't care whether she achieves more success in tennis or not, that's her right, of course, and is perfectly fine. But if that's the case, she should get out of pro tennis and make room for someone who wants to compete and improve.

by Deuce .

With a Throwback Style, He’s Charging Forward

We’re well past the glory days of the serve-and-volley style that took John McEnroe, Martina Navratilova and Pete Sampras to the Hall of Fame. Maxime Cressy is on a one-man revival mission.

By Matthew Futterman
June 29, 2022
WIMBLEDON, England —

“My butt is killing me.”

That was Maxime Cressy, a little more than an hour after his four hour, 10 minute marathon win over Felix Auger-Aliassime on Tuesday in the fading light of the No. 3 Court, the steeple of St. Mary’s Church in sight just above the tree line. The little-known Cressy, a 25-year-old American who was born and raised in France, only recently cracked the top 50, but he has already achieved something no player ever will, and few aspire to, because, well, as Cressy said, it’s rather painful, and maybe not so smart.
To watch Cressy play and win a match on the Wimbledon grass is to take a journey back in time, to the glory years of serve-and-volley tennis, to the days of John McEnroe, Martina Navratilova, Boris Becker, Stefan Edberg and Pete Sampras.

It was a time before professional tennis became much more uniform and far friendlier to camping out on the baseline and blasting groundstrokes. Before ever-lighter and more powerful rackets and next-generation polyester strings made passing shots on the run from the deepest corners possible with a wrist-flick. It all turned rushing the net on too many points into a foolish, anachronistic mission, like stuffing 30 wooden rackets in the bag before taking the court.

“They don’t really know how to volley that well, so they don’t want to come in even when invited,” Navratilova said this week of the modern generation of players.

Even Reilly Opelka, who is nearly 7 feet tall and possesses one of the deadliest serves in the game, won’t consider it, despite having the wingspan of an Andean condor. Too tough to move, he explained, especially on soft grass, and especially for anyone who takes big strides like he does.

Maria Sakkari is one of the most aggressive players in the game. But she has long been somewhat allergic to the net, so much so that her coach, Tom Hill, has set a goal for her to go to the net 20 times in a match, though not by serving and volleying, which she rarely practices.

“Whether I can do it or not, that’s the goal,” she said.

She got there 10 times on Tuesday in her straight-set opening-round win over Zoe Hives of Australia.

Carlos Alcaraz is still trying to figure out how to play on grass even though he is the game’s hottest rising star and one of the fastest players. He possesses some deft touch at the net, too.

“I lost every time,” he said. “I didn’t want to try again.”

And yet, amid all this net-play pessimism, there is Cressy, all 6-foot-6 of him, plus the mop of dirty blond curls that gives him an extra inch or two. He comes in behind his first serve, his second serve and on his opponent’s serve, whenever he senses a chance. He comes in after every shortish ball he sees and even after his opponent passes him on three consecutive points. He believes in serve-and-volley with the fervor of a cult member, even if it is a cult of one.

“This style can take me to the top,” he said after a first-round loss at the French Open, and when he says “the top,” he means the No. 1 ranking. After all, that loss was on clay, which has long been kryptonite to serve-and-volleyers.

Cressy has been battling conventional wisdom for a decade, trying to master the serve-and-volley since he was a promising junior player in France. France’s tennis federation basically told him to cut it out, as though he were goofing off during practice. If that was the way he was going to play, they didn’t want much to do with him. Cressy would not budge.

“I loved it,” he said Tuesday night after knocking off Auger-Aliassime, the sixth-seeded Canadian and a fashionable dark-horse at Wimbledon, 6-7 (5), 6-4, 7-6 (9), 7-6 (5). He will play another American, Jack Sock, in the second round on Thursday. “If it is something I love, I might as well do it and make it as efficient as possible.”

Cressy trained at an academy during his last year in high school and was recruited to play at U.C.L.A., where coaches saw some potential for him in doubles. They were correct, and he became a collegiate doubles champion in 2019.

But Cressy never stopped believing in the idea that his sport was ignoring a style that could be incredibly efficient for a singles player with a big serve, an ability to move, unflappable confidence and a willingness to sprint, scurry, bend, crouch, squat and stretch for balls before they land. Hence the sore rear end after Tuesday’s match.

Lately, something has clicked. In December, Cressy was ranked 112th. He played into the final 16 at the Australian Open in January, had a rough patch in the late winter and early spring, then got on a roll that has sent him up to No. 45, one of the fastest rises in the sport this year.

The elevation has come after years of studying film of Sampras and McEnroe and all the other great net hounds. His three years as a professional have been a process of trial and error, especially trying to figure out how to best use his cannon-like serve. At some point, he’s not sure when, there was an epiphany — the most effective and reliable serve was not the perfectly placed, overpowering 140-mile-an-hour ace. Too often, that is a low-percentage shot.

Rather, it’s the serve that produces an easy volley. His first serve averaged 123 miles an hour on Tuesday; his second 119. Many players, even the best ones, lose 20 miles per hour or more from their first to second serve. He did not lose a service game.

“It’s very difficult playing someone who is basically hitting two first serves,” a frustrated Auger-Aliassime said of Cressy after the match.

Cressy has experimented with different serve patterns, trying to spray them across the service box, but he ultimately settled on using just two — one wide and the other down the middle of the court, though he mainly uses the latter just to keep his opponents from focusing fully on his wide serves. Most often, he hits a high, kicking serve out wide. It goes in a lot. If it comes back, it’s often in his volleying strike zone.

After the serve, he sprints to the net and instinct takes over. He never has a plan for where the volleys will go. In a split second, he sees the ball, the court and the opponent. A pulse from his brain to his hands says punch, or drive, or cut, or slice or drop volley.

The ball crashes into his strings. And it goes from there. So many of his volleys land just inches from the baseline. Even the lost art of the deep volley, something lamented by many, including Dick Gould, the retired Stanford tennis coach who helped turn McEnroe into a seven-time Grand Slam singles champion, lives on in Cressy.

It is a lonely way to play, Cressy said: so many doubters telling him serve-and-volley is a relic and no one over his shoulder when he looks back to see if anyone will join his cause. There is, though, the joy and cockeyed logic that only the iconoclast understands and figures out how to use for his benefit.

“It is a bumpy road to be unique on the tour,” he said Tuesday, “but that helps my confidence.”

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:17 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:35 pm I am going to try and put a kids(teens) view on this Emma no pressure thing.

Teens have this happy go lucky way of thinking or everything is a complete doomsville attitude when it comes to just about everything. I think you can all relate if you have raised a teenager like me who at one minute can be bouncing around the house with no cares in the world and then the next minute it is like the world is ending. I think it is just the way we are wired.

Emma, Leylah & Coco although they have a lot more responsibilities than me but still they all have parents and families taken care of a lot of the crap that goes along with the pressures of being a professional tennis player. Yeah they still have to go out on the court and play the matches and that has to be normal pressure like any sports competition is but it also has to be a blast being a teen and playing a game at the level they play it at and in many ways I think they see it that way.

I love the attitude that Emma has and if it makes her feel awesome going into these tournaments than more power to her.
Well... whatever and however Emma is feeling, it's not working when it comes to her tennis.
I don't know her, and so I don't know if she needs to take her tennis more seriously, or if she needs to be more loose and 'have no cares'... but something definitely needs to change if she is to have further success in pro tennis.

If she doesn't care whether she achieves more success in tennis or not, that's her right, of course, and is perfectly fine. But if that's the case, she should get out of pro tennis and make room for someone who wants to compete and improve.

Emma certainly has the ability to go very far in the game of tennis. I think she also cares about the game of tennis because like almost all of these players they have dedicated a lot of their time to the game since they were very little and I don't think you just do that unless you care about something quite a bit.

I have been playing and learning the game of tennis since I was 5 years old. Now I am not at the level of Emma or do I think I have ever trained probably at that level like Emma, Coco, or Leylah. I do know though I have dedicated a lot to this game over all those years and now I am 16 years old and I still love it. I still train 5 to 6 days per week up to 2 hours per day. 1 of those days is not on the court and just a cardio/workout day. Sunday I never do anything tennis related unless I am in a tournament.

by Deuce .

Judy Murray on Emma Raducanu

.

by ponchi101 Serve and volley tennis disappeared because of the racquets (and strings), and then a circular reasoning: the racquets got more powerful, so it became easier to pass, to people stayed back and concentrated more on ground strokes, so they stopped S&V.
Murray and Djokovic are the perfect examples. You hit a very good volley on them and they only need to get to it and bunt it back, and the racquet will give them the power and control to pass the man at the net with ease. In the past, players like Borg or Connors needed to take full swings at the ball, or it would not go over the net.
And having played with a Babolat Pure Drive once, I say Babolats are the perfect racquets to spray balls all around. Cressy's S&V is even more impressive because he uses the Aero, a racquet clearly designed for power from the back. His preferred choice, obviously, but a difficult racquet to practice his craft.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:25 pm .

Judy Murray on Emma Raducanu

.

I understand that sponsors want to be visible in as many tournaments as possible but they cannot force a player to play in a tournament especially if they are having some sort of setback from an injury can they? I would think the decision to play a tournament in those cases would come down to the player, trainer/doctor/coach & parents.

by meganfernandez

Cuckoo4Coco wrote:
Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:25 pm .

Judy Murray on Emma Raducanu

.
I understand that sponsors want to be visible in as many tournaments as possible but they cannot force a player to play in a tournament especially if they are having some sort of setback from an injury can they? I would think the decision to play a tournament in those cases would come down to the player, trainer/doctor/coach & parents.

Can they? Yes. Do they? Probably. Should they? No way. It’s a gross contradiction of “we support you.” Of course the sponsor is in it for the exposure, but they would also say they care about the athlete, that the relationship is important. And the on-court exposure isn’t the only type of exposure. They could decide to pull the sponsorship if it’s not working but pressuring the person to do something potentially unhealthy would be pretty low and short-sighted.

And I bet it happens.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by Cuckoo4Coco

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:54 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote:
Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:25 pm .

Judy Murray on Emma Raducanu

.
I understand that sponsors want to be visible in as many tournaments as possible but they cannot force a player to play in a tournament especially if they are having some sort of setback from an injury can they? I would think the decision to play a tournament in those cases would come down to the player, trainer/doctor/coach & parents.
Can they? Yes. Do they? Probably. Should they? No way. It’s a gross contradiction of “we support you.” Of course the sponsor is in it for the exposure, but they would also say they care about the athlete, that the relationship is important. And the on-court exposure isn’t the only type of exposure. They could decide to pull the sponsorship if it’s not working but pressuring the person to do something potentially unhealthy would be pretty low and short-sighted.

And I bet it happens.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That would be really sucky if a sponsor would do something like pressure a player who they know is injured to play just for exposure. If I were that player I would say you can stick your sponsporship and find something else. Many of the really high profile players give exposure to the sponsors by doing commercials and even on ads in magazines and billboards and stuff like that.

by ponchi101 Always a delicate balance. Sure, the sponsors cannot force you to play. But for some players, those with top endorsements (meaning $millions), the sponsors are also paying a lot of money for there product to be highlighted. Notice how all players that have a Rolex endorsement walk off the court after a win and immediately put on that $25.000 watch on. It is part of the deal.
I remember the case of Kafelnikov. Surly, petulant during interviews, impossible to get him to do one interview or promotion for any tournament. Not a bad guy and a person with two slams, yet he played for years with no clothing contract because, well, he was an endorsement's nightmare. Sure, his decision, but for other players (and Emma is in that group) it means the difference between an enjoyable life, and financial security for you and two or three generations of your family.
A delicate balance to achieve.

by Deuce

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:41 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:25 pm .

Judy Murray on Emma Raducanu

.
I understand that sponsors want to be visible in as many tournaments as possible but they cannot force a player to play in a tournament especially if they are having some sort of setback from an injury can they? I would think the decision to play a tournament in those cases would come down to the player, trainer/doctor/coach & parents.

It depends what the contract says.
Important stuff is often hidden in the fine print - and so it's best to have a lawyer read through it. Sponsors have certainly been known to take advantage of inexperienced players - especially in individual sports.

No sponsor can or will say that a player must play while injured... but they can state that the player must make a 'reasonable effort' to play - and that can be interpreted in different ways... and the sponsor could threaten to cancel the contract if they claim that the player isn't making a 'reasonable effort' to play...
The field of business is certainly not the most honest in the world... but it is one of the most greedy.

Top players make enough money from their wins to live a luxurious life for the rest of their life - they don't need the sponsorships.
And so it becomes kind of a pissing contest of players competing with each other to see who can make the most money - money that they don't need.

And this is true of all pro sports today. So much money being wasted by giving it to the already filthy rich, rather than using it to... say... feed and house people who have no home and/or little food.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:02 pm Always a delicate balance. Sure, the sponsors cannot force you to play. But for some players, those with top endorsements (meaning $millions), the sponsors are also paying a lot of money for there product to be highlighted. Notice how all players that have a Rolex endorsement walk off the court after a win and immediately put on that $25.000 watch on. It is part of the deal.
I remember the case of Kafelnikov. Surly, petulant during interviews, impossible to get him to do one interview or promotion for any tournament. Not a bad guy and a person with two slams, yet he played for years with no clothing contract because, well, he was an endorsement's nightmare. Sure, his decision, but for other players (and Emma is in that group) it means the difference between an enjoyable life, and financial security for you and two or three generations of your family.
A delicate balance to achieve.

Having that money security is all great but like they say it doesn't bring you happiness. I grew up in a family that has been pretty financially secure with both grandparents being that way. Both my grandparents have helped me and my brothers with whatever sports and whatever we needed for that particular sport. For me it was tennis and for them it was Lacrosse. We never had to worry about equipment, lessons, camps, coaches, whatever. That is all great and everything and I do feel blessed for everything, but what really brings me happiness is when I can volunteer at a tennis camp for little kids who may not have much and just show them how much fun the game of tennis can be and get smiles on these little kids faces. I was once one of these little kids who was 5, 6, 7 years old who was just learning the fun of the game and I love being that person that can share that with little kids.

by meganfernandez

Cuckoo4Coco wrote:
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:02 pm Always a delicate balance. Sure, the sponsors cannot force you to play. But for some players, those with top endorsements (meaning $millions), the sponsors are also paying a lot of money for there product to be highlighted. Notice how all players that have a Rolex endorsement walk off the court after a win and immediately put on that $25.000 watch on. It is part of the deal.
I remember the case of Kafelnikov. Surly, petulant during interviews, impossible to get him to do one interview or promotion for any tournament. Not a bad guy and a person with two slams, yet he played for years with no clothing contract because, well, he was an endorsement's nightmare. Sure, his decision, but for other players (and Emma is in that group) it means the difference between an enjoyable life, and financial security for you and two or three generations of your family.
A delicate balance to achieve.
Having that money security is all great but like they say it doesn't bring you happiness. I grew up in a family that has been pretty financially secure with both grandparents being that way. Both my grandparents have helped me and my brothers with whatever sports and whatever we needed for that particular sport. For me it was tennis and for them it was Lacrosse. We never had to worry about equipment, lessons, camps, coaches, whatever. That is all great and everything and I do feel blessed for everything, but what really brings me happiness is when I can volunteer at a tennis camp for little kids who may not have much and just show them how much fun the game of tennis can be and get smiles on these little kids faces. I was once one of these little kids who was 5, 6, 7 years old who was just learning the fun of the game and I love being that person that can share that with little kids.

That’s really wonderful, C4C. Tennis can be a lifelong gift. I’m in my 40s and still thank my parents for teaching me to play, making it a part of our lives. I’m sure you are introducing tennis to some people who will have it in their lives for a very long time - and they will share it, too.

by ponchi101 One of what I consider are two sports you can truly can play for a lifetime (the other one is skiing).
My current situation would not allow me to give an unbiased, balanced opinion on financial/monetary security and its relationship with happiness.

by Cuckoo4Coco

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:39 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote:
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:02 pm Always a delicate balance. Sure, the sponsors cannot force you to play. But for some players, those with top endorsements (meaning $millions), the sponsors are also paying a lot of money for there product to be highlighted. Notice how all players that have a Rolex endorsement walk off the court after a win and immediately put on that $25.000 watch on. It is part of the deal.
I remember the case of Kafelnikov. Surly, petulant during interviews, impossible to get him to do one interview or promotion for any tournament. Not a bad guy and a person with two slams, yet he played for years with no clothing contract because, well, he was an endorsement's nightmare. Sure, his decision, but for other players (and Emma is in that group) it means the difference between an enjoyable life, and financial security for you and two or three generations of your family.
A delicate balance to achieve.
Having that money security is all great but like they say it doesn't bring you happiness. I grew up in a family that has been pretty financially secure with both grandparents being that way. Both my grandparents have helped me and my brothers with whatever sports and whatever we needed for that particular sport. For me it was tennis and for them it was Lacrosse. We never had to worry about equipment, lessons, camps, coaches, whatever. That is all great and everything and I do feel blessed for everything, but what really brings me happiness is when I can volunteer at a tennis camp for little kids who may not have much and just show them how much fun the game of tennis can be and get smiles on these little kids faces. I was once one of these little kids who was 5, 6, 7 years old who was just learning the fun of the game and I love being that person that can share that with little kids.
That’s really wonderful, C4C. Tennis can be a lifelong gift. I’m in my 40s and still thank my parents for teaching me to play, making it a part of our lives. I’m sure you are introducing tennis to some people who will have it in their lives for a very long time - and they will share it, too.

The people that made it fun for me when I was just a little girl are no longer involved in my tennis other than my family but I remember them so much. They made it really enjoyable for me and I wanted to keep going back to the court. I will never forget them.

Thank You, I hope that I can make it fun for these little kids and someday when they are my age and I am older they will look back and remember me and the fun they had.

When I play in tournaments and I know they are nothing like a pro tournament or even a college tournament if I am not having fun out there and smiling and having fun then I shouldn't be out there. Don't get me wrong I am also intense in a match and will motivate myself with a "Come On" or "Fist Pump" but most of the time I am just out there having a blast. I am playing the game I love so why not.

by meganfernandez

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:53 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:39 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote:
Having that money security is all great but like they say it doesn't bring you happiness. I grew up in a family that has been pretty financially secure with both grandparents being that way. Both my grandparents have helped me and my brothers with whatever sports and whatever we needed for that particular sport. For me it was tennis and for them it was Lacrosse. We never had to worry about equipment, lessons, camps, coaches, whatever. That is all great and everything and I do feel blessed for everything, but what really brings me happiness is when I can volunteer at a tennis camp for little kids who may not have much and just show them how much fun the game of tennis can be and get smiles on these little kids faces. I was once one of these little kids who was 5, 6, 7 years old who was just learning the fun of the game and I love being that person that can share that with little kids.
That’s really wonderful, C4C. Tennis can be a lifelong gift. I’m in my 40s and still thank my parents for teaching me to play, making it a part of our lives. I’m sure you are introducing tennis to some people who will have it in their lives for a very long time - and they will share it, too.
The people that made it fun for me when I was just a little girl are no longer involved in my tennis other than my family but I remember them so much. They made it really enjoyable for me and I wanted to keep going back to the court. I will never forget them.

Thank You, I hope that I can make it fun for these little kids and someday when they are my age and I am older they will look back and remember me and the fun they had.

When I play in tournaments and I know they are nothing like a pro tournament or even a college tournament if I am not having fun out there and smiling and having fun then I shouldn't be out there. Don't get me wrong I am also intense in a match and will motivate myself with a "Come On" or "Fist Pump" but most of the time I am just out there having a blast. I am playing the game I love so why not.

I'm sure they will. Except for those few times when they are cursing themselves for ever trying to play this infuriating game.

by Cuckoo4Coco

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:24 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:53 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:39 pm
That’s really wonderful, C4C. Tennis can be a lifelong gift. I’m in my 40s and still thank my parents for teaching me to play, making it a part of our lives. I’m sure you are introducing tennis to some people who will have it in their lives for a very long time - and they will share it, too.
The people that made it fun for me when I was just a little girl are no longer involved in my tennis other than my family but I remember them so much. They made it really enjoyable for me and I wanted to keep going back to the court. I will never forget them.

Thank You, I hope that I can make it fun for these little kids and someday when they are my age and I am older they will look back and remember me and the fun they had.

When I play in tournaments and I know they are nothing like a pro tournament or even a college tournament if I am not having fun out there and smiling and having fun then I shouldn't be out there. Don't get me wrong I am also intense in a match and will motivate myself with a "Come On" or "Fist Pump" but most of the time I am just out there having a blast. I am playing the game I love so why not.
I'm sure they will. Except for those few times when they are cursing themselves for ever trying to play this infuriating game.

Having watched this game and also having my Pop Pop who was a Golf Pro at a Local Golf Club around here and now is one in Hawaii and even in his younger days played as an amateur on the golf pro tour in a few tournaments, I compare Tennis and Golf and Golf is way more frustrating to me than Tennis. Maybe that is cuz I picked up the knack for playing Tennis and I am awful at Golf. Like my brothers are better at Golf than me and although they are both way stronger than me and a lot of times can overpower me on the tennis court I can hold my own against them and even sometimes beat them because I am technically way better then them both in Tennis. Gold however I lose my mind with whenever I go out to hit golf balls.

by Deuce

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:32 pm I compare Tennis and Golf and Golf is way more frustrating to me than Tennis.

^ Absolutely...
I played golf for 1 summer in my life - about 20 years ago. Played 5 rounds. I improved my score with each round - though I never broke 100. Still, with that degree of improvement, I'd have obviously been shooting well under par and been a top golf pro had I continued

.

But I don't have the patience for golf... and after that summer of golf, I decided that as long as I'm able to run after a tennis ball, I will choose tennis over golf.

The main difference between tennis and golf is that in tennis, when you hit a bad shot, you get a chance to redeem yourself almost immediately...
Whereas in golf, if you hit a bad shot, you have 5 or 10 minutes to dwell on it and allow the anger and frustration to grow until you get to your ball - IF YOU CAN FIND YOUR BALL...

No, thanks.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:07 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:32 pm I compare Tennis and Golf and Golf is way more frustrating to me than Tennis.
^ Absolutely...
I played golf for 1 summer in my life - about 20 years ago. Played 5 rounds. I improved my score with each round - though I never broke 100. Still, with that degree of improvement, I'd have obviously been shooting well under par and been a top golf pro had I continued .

But I don't have the patience for golf... and after that summer of golf, I decided that as long as I'm able to run after a tennis ball, I will choose tennis over golf.

The main difference between tennis and golf is that in tennis, when you hit a bad shot, you get a chance to redeem yourself almost immediately...
Whereas in golf, if you hit a bad shot, you have 5 or 10 minutes to dwell on it and allow the anger and frustration to grow until you get to your ball - IF YOU CAN FIND YOUR BALL...
No, thanks.

Pop Pop before he moved to Hawaii tried to teach me and my brothers the game of golf and my brothers like I said picked it up a little bit but not really me. My two brothers are more likely to pick up any sport and are at least good at it. They were really good at Lacrosse. Me not so much. I excel at tennis but other sports I struggle at. Play me in table tennis or badminton and you would be in trouble, but they are very similar to tennis.

by ti-amie

by Cuckoo4Coco

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:02 pm

His last name is a mouth full.

by ponchi101 Do as Megan: BOTIC. Keep is simple.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:22 pm Do as Megan: BOTIC. Keep is simple.

That is true.

by ashkor87 A meditation on defense...it is not really about foot speed - nobody has to run more than 10 meters in a given direction, ever..
Before that, it is about acceleration,
Before that, good eyes, so you know where the ball is headed,
Before that, anticipation- so you know where the ball is going to be headed
Before that, the desire and will to get to the ball..
Then the stamina to do it again and again, hundreds of times.
After you get to the ball, of course, balance and a still head..

Good defense is possibly even more important than good weapons, especially in a fast court (of which there are so few,,,)

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I hope Dominic gets his groove back. I miss that down the line, supersonic BH.

by Cuckoo4Coco Dominic is only 28 years old. Didn't he have some sort of wrist injury? I guess that was pretty bad?

by ponchi101 He had a huge wrist injury. Some elbow issues too.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:17 pm He had a huge wrist injury. Some elbow issues too.

To keep him out an entire year it had to be really bad.

retirements.jpg

by Deuce I think we can discount 2020 - because of the effect of COVID, everything was skewed - fewer tournaments were played, lots of players missed tournaments, etc., etc., resulting in a significantly lower percentage than any other year on the chart.

WTA percentage is higher than ATP in recent years, which is not surprising.

Does the percentage take into account withdrawals between matches, or just in-match retirements? That's not clear.
I'd like to see the stats for both combined, as I feel the two are directly related.

Lastly, I'd still like to see the stats for, say, 1970 to 2000, and compare them to the above data.

Tiers.jpg

by Cuckoo4Coco Elena I think has the make up to win another slam or two. She has a terrific serve and if she can keep her unforced errors down she can win a lot of points.

The main thing is how will the other ladies on the tour progress. Will there be someone who steps up and starts to dominate the WTA tour?

by ponchi101 Iga has been pretty dominant. We cannot go and say "Oh, she lost to Cornet at W, she sucks!". Her streak was not only a long one, it was over a span of very relevant tournaments.
The thing is: will she have a real rival? Who can step there? Suliso pointed out that we will never know how good of a rivalry we were robbed of, when Barty retired.
I say: she is above the rest right now. With a bit of a break now (her early loss) and her track record this year on hard courts, she is the favorite for the USO. The streak has been broken, she likes the surface, the ball bounces more into her comfort zone. And she is about 4,000 points above everybody (more or less). She is the target.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:04 pm Iga has been pretty dominant. We cannot go and say "Oh, she lost to Cornet at W, she sucks!". Her streak was not only a long one, it was over a span of very relevant tournaments.
The thing is: will she have a real rival? Who can step there? Suliso pointed out that we will never know how good of a rivalry we were robbed of, when Barty retired.
I say: she is above the rest right now. With a bit of a break now (her early loss) and her track record this year on hard courts, she is the favorite for the USO. The streak has been broken, she likes the surface, the ball bounces more into her comfort zone. And she is about 4,000 points above everybody (more or less). She is the target.

Iga is the heavy favorite going into the US Open for sure. I do hope someone like Emma can step up again and Coco can really make a mark at this tournament as well. Also Leylah is someone I'd like to see do well at the US Open.

by Deuce Over the past 30 years or so, and continuing today, some players view the non-Majors as simply tune-ups for the Majors - particularly the tournaments in the month leading up to a Major.
They'll go in with the idea that they'll give an effort up to a certain point in a non-Major, and after that point they won't effectively 'tank', but they won't give 100%, either, and are thankful for the added rest.

When a top player loses in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round of a non-Major leading up to a Major, I'm always amused when people are shocked. A lot of people think that all the top players give 100% in every match at every tournament. But that's just not true.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:33 pm Over the past 30 years or so, and continuing today, some players view the non-Majors as simply tune-ups for the Majors - particularly the tournaments in the month leading up to a Major.
They'll go in with the idea that they'll give an effort up to a certain point in a non-Major, and after that point they won't effectively 'tank', but they won't give 100%, either, and are thankful for the added rest.

When a top player loses in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round of a non-Major leading up to a Major, I'm always amused when people are shocked. A lot of people think that all the top players give 100% in every match at every tournament. But that's just not true.

I see your point with the top players doing this that already have huge bank accounts, but this is only for those at the top of the game. Not those who don't win the huge prize money events on a regular basis which is most of the players.

For example like Elena Rybakina who is a fairly highly ranked women's player and just won a huge amount of prize money, but I don't see her going into these hard court events and after the 2nd or 3rd round tanking to get some extra rest. She is going to use these events to prepare the best she can for the US Open.

by Deuce I didn't say that they tank matches. I said that they don't give 100%. There is a difference...
Tanking is basically deliberately trying to lose. Not giving 100% is more like allowing your opponent to dictate and decide the outcome.
But there is some deliberate tanking happening in these situations, as well. Mostly, it's just not giving 100%, though, and being ok with losing so as to get a rest in the weeks before a Major if they've played a lot recently.

And, yes, it is mostly the top players who do this at non-Majors, as I mentioned.
Sometimes they'll lose to a local player, which makes the local fans happy and helps the ticket sales to continue.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:53 pm I didn't say that they tank matches. I said that they don't give 100%. There is a difference...
Tanking is basically deliberately trying to lose. Not giving 100% is more like allowing your opponent to dictate and decide the outcome.
But there is some deliberate tanking happening in these situations, as well. Mostly, it's just not giving 100%, though, and being ok with losing so as to get a rest in the weeks before a Major if they've played a lot recently.

And, yes, it is mostly the top players who do this at non-Majors, as I mentioned.
Sometimes they'll lose to a local player, which makes the local fans happy and helps the ticket sales to continue.

I still think that would come from the very top player who has earned quite the amount of prize money along the way. The majority of these players are not in the category though. I am not saying that a lot of regular top players are struggling financially because they are not, but they are trying to reach a higher level and to do that it means winning these matches. Players like Nadal, Djokovic, Medevdev, sure they can do that sure of thing, but I don't think it would happen as much on the women's side unless it was someone like a Simona Halep, Karolina Pliskova, Mugu (maybe), Kerber. Azarenka. I just don't see the younger players doing this.

by Deuce Which is what I said.

by ti-amie I hope people take time to notice the difference in prize money between the ATP 250's and the WTA 250's coming up next week.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:32 pm Which is what I said.

Then I agree 100% with you on that. Those type of players sure. The Brandon Nakashima's, Tommy Paul's, Amanda Anisimova's, Clara Tauson's, No way are they not giving 100% every time they go out at these smaller events.

ATP Rets.jpg

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:36 pm I hope people take time to notice the difference in prize money between the ATP 250's and the WTA 250's coming up next week.

Roughly twice the purses in the ATP.
What could be done?

by ashkor87 Rybakina reminds me most of Sampras..when I first saw him beating Lendl at the USO, I said to myself- no way he can keep hitting so flat and hard and still keep them in..of course that was Landsdorp..taught Sharapova and Davenport too, I believe..Rybakina is like that ...may her tribe flourish

by ponchi101 Robert Landsdorp. Legendary.
Was super, super briefly with Sharapova, which I think was a mistake by her. But yes, he taught that flat, pure ball. He called Pete "The last of the Mohicans".
Now, somebody has to teach Rybakina how to play INSIDE the service boxes. The number of missed shots there was horrendous.

by ponchi101 I really, really, really don't like Mondays after a slam. They feel so flat.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:45 pm I really, really, really don't like Mondays after a slam. They feel so flat.

For Slam withdrawal, there's Wertheim's 50 Parting Shots.
https://www.si.com/tennis/2022/07/11/wi ... ck-kyrgios

and a bonus dose
https://www.si.com/tennis/2022/07/11/st ... y-now-2022

by ponchi101 Reached the limit for SI. But thanks for the 50 parting shots; that was the last I read. He always have interesting points.

by Cuckoo4Coco What I think has to be super weird for the players who have played at Wimbledon and then are playing at these tournaments is I am currently watching this Ladies Open at Lausanne and even though the two players are relatively unknowns they are playing in front of about 25 people. That is about the amount of people that come and see me play a match.

What is also really weird is they look like they just brought their own chairs and are sitting on the side of the court watching the match.

by meganfernandez Unlimited challenges in Bastad. Curious if this is universal at all ATP events. It's clay and they have linespeople calling the lines, but electronic backup and they're letting players have unlimited challenges, and the chair isn'g going to check marks. Also, the chair gives instructions for coaching thoughout the match. Talking when you're on the same end as your coach, otherwise hand signals.

by ponchi101 I can understand the UNLIMITED challenges; it is basically that way on clay. But the rest is going to be odd.
Will Apostolos really be able to control himself and not yell something in Greek to Stefanos when he is on the far end of the court? I say: no. He will know almost nobody will understand him and will get away with it.
That man lives his tennis life so vicariously through his son.

rets_by_srfc.jpg

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:59 pm I can understand the UNLIMITED challenges; it is basically that way on clay. But the rest is going to be odd.
Will Apostolos really be able to control himself and not yell something in Greek to Stefanos when he is on the far end of the court? I say: no. He will know almost nobody will understand him and will get away with it.
That man lives his tennis life so vicariously through his son.

Heard on Twitter that they are using linespeople and unlimited challenges at Bastad because Hawkeye (or whatever they are using) is still so new on clay, they want as many data points as they can get right now. Not sure it's true. You're right that players have unlimited challenges on clay, unless the chair umpire won't budge. And unlimited correct challenges everywhere else.

by Deuce I guess that's why they never use that silly automatic elevator chair for the umpire at clay tournaments - it would take an eternity for the umpire to come down, go back up, come down, go back up, etc. that many times per match.

Unlimited challenges will slow the match down significantly, I would think. Unless they create a condition like unlimited challenges, but if HawkEye shows that you're wrong, you lose a point. That would keep the number of challenges down considerably in an unlimited scenario.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 1:49 am
Unlimited challenges will slow the match down significantly, I would think. Unless they create a condition like unlimited challenges, but if HawkEye shows that you're wrong, you lose a point. That would keep the number of challenges down considerably in an unlimited scenario.

This is the first thing that popped into my head as well. Players are going to challenge anything that is somewhat close. Unless they have the electronic system to show if the shot is in and out quickly and not having to rely on the chair umpire having to get down from the chair every time it is going to add a lot of time to the matches.

by ashkor87 Being old-fashioned (and old) I prefer the norm we all grew up with- if the ball is not CLEARLY out, it is in.. except for the serve . No Hawkeye, no challenges ..oh well, those days are gone, I know.
Challenges undermine our trust in the game..if the umpires are fallible, what is left? And so on...!

by Deuce

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 1:57 am Being old-fashioned (and old) I prefer the norm we all grew up with- if the ball is not CLEARLY out, it is in.. except for the serve . No Hawkeye, no challenges ..oh well, those days are gone, I know.
Challenges undermine our trust in the game..if the umpires are fallible, what is left? And so on...!

I agree ^.
The game functioned fine without all these bells and whistles.
The best description of HawkEye/ShotSpot I've heard was that it's an "inaccurate cartoon estimate".

Sadly, though, it's done for the fans, to add 'drama' and 'entertainment value' much more than it is a legitimate attempt to get the calls right.

Give me the days of live linespeople on the court any day over this entertainment circus...

by Cuckoo4Coco Well I guess I am more new school. I want each point to be correct and the electronic system is the best way to determine that. I don't want to put in 110% effort in an over 2 hour match and have a lines person determine the match by making a call that could be either correct or wrong. I just want it to be correct.

In most of the matches I play it is the honesty system between the two players as there are rarely lines people or a chair umpire.

by ashkor87 The Hall of Fame..what do people here think of it? It is such a peculiarly American concept, I wonder how many people outside the US know or care about it? I know for sure nobody here, where I now live, have any clue what it is..nor do they care.. sometimes I wonder if it just an American vanity, like a team from Detroit playing a team from Chicago and calling it the World Series! It always made us laugh...
Maybe it is something that will grow in significance as more people get it. They do honor global candidates, that is a start..
Let us see in a few decades!

by ashkor87 If there is to be a HOF of global significance, why would it be in Newport, RI or anywhere in the US? Unlike cricket and golf, there is no natural 'home' for tennis- the game was almost certainly invented in France but I don't see the French taking any pride or ownership..strange..

by mmmm8

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:26 am If there is to be a HOF of global significance, why would it be in Newport, RI or anywhere in the US? Unlike cricket and golf, there is no natural 'home' for tennis- the game was almost certainly invented in France but I don't see the French taking any pride or ownership..strange..

The tennis grounds in Newport where it is held is the first site of the US Open. The US Open began there in 1881, just 4 years after Wimbledon began, Wimbledon being the oldest Major. I think it's a somewhat appropriate location. The museum there is really great.

Having spent some time over the years at the inductions, I wish it were a bigger deal. Would love to have more formal recognition for the tennis legends and legendary contributors.

by ashkor87 Good to know that. But that still makes it only the home of US tennis..tennis is the most global of sports ...the US is not its centre, if it ever was ..but, as I said, the very concept of a Hall of Fame is a peculiarly American concept. ..how many sports have it? There is no football Hall of Fame, no cricket Hall of Fame..that I am aware of, anyway..in fact the very word Fame! So I see it as an American concept not likely to take hold in a global world..

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:26 am If there is to be a HOF of global significance, why would it be in Newport, RI or anywhere in the US? Unlike cricket and golf, there is no natural 'home' for tennis- the game was almost certainly invented in France but I don't see the French taking any pride or ownership..strange..

Roland Garros has a lovely tennis museum. I like it the HOF at Newport. Doesn't really matter where it is - almost anywhere is a bit arbitrary other than Wimbledon, since it's the most famous tournament. Since the US Open started at Newport, as M8 said, it makes sense. I'm just glad someone is interested in running one so we have one!

I don't think I'll go out of my way to go it, though. They would have to have a really cool special exhibit or event or some cool interactive technology. I'm not interested in old rackets inside cases. I can see those in Indianapolis, at the USTA Midwest office.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:35 pm Good to know that. But that still makes it only the home of US tennis..tennis is the most global of sports ...the US is not its centre, if it ever was ..but, as I said, the very concept of a Hall of Fame is a peculiarly American concept. ..how many sports have it? There is no football Hall of Fame, no cricket Hall of Fame..that I am aware of, anyway..in fact the very word Fame! So I see it as an American concept not likely to take hold in a global world..

I disagree that Tennis is the most global of sports as I think that has to go to Soccer/Futbol/Football, but that is beside the point. I have never been to Newport and the HOF and hope to get there sometime soon, but I don't think the Museum only represents US Tennis at all. It represents the game of tennis. The international game of tennis. Watching this tournament that is going on now, I do see that the grounds are very nice and even though the grass courts are not like the Wimbledon grass courts they also seem very nice as well.

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:35 pm Good to know that. But that still makes it only the home of US tennis..tennis is the most global of sports ...the US is not its centre, if it ever was ..but, as I said, the very concept of a Hall of Fame is a peculiarly American concept. ..how many sports have it? There is no football Hall of Fame, no cricket Hall of Fame..that I am aware of, anyway..in fact the very word Fame! So I see it as an American concept not likely to take hold in a global world..

There are many HOF.
There is a football (Soccer) HOF. It is in Murcia, Spain.
Spain has a global HOF for sports, for Spanish people.
Other HOF: Automotive, Swimming, Athletics.
England and Canada have HOF for their own. Argentina too.

Yes, it started as an American concept, but other countries and sports got in. And despite the fact that the sport was not invented in the USA, as M8 says, the USO is the second oldest tournament in history (Trivia piece: Canada's Open, now the tournaments in Toronto and Montreal, are the third, beating RG) and the USA was the dominant country in the sport for a considerable time.

About baseball's "World Series". Yes, that is kind of silly. There have been people saying that the winner of the USA WS should, at the very least, play the winner of the Japanese Championships. But the logistics would be a nightmare. Just imagine the jet lag.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:13 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:35 pm Good to know that. But that still makes it only the home of US tennis..tennis is the most global of sports ...the US is not its centre, if it ever was ..but, as I said, the very concept of a Hall of Fame is a peculiarly American concept. ..how many sports have it? There is no football Hall of Fame, no cricket Hall of Fame..that I am aware of, anyway..in fact the very word Fame! So I see it as an American concept not likely to take hold in a global world..
There are many HOF.
There is a football (Soccer) HOF. It is in Murcia, Spain.
Spain has a global HOF for sports, for Spanish people.
Other HOF: Automotive, Swimming, Athletics.
England and Canada have HOF for their own. Argentina too.

Yes, it started as an American concept, but other countries and sports got in. And despite the fact that the sport was not invented in the USA, as M8 says, the USO is the second oldest tournament in history (Trivia piece: Canada's Open, now the tournaments in Toronto and Montreal, are the third, beating RG) and the USA was the dominant country in the sport for a considerable time.

About baseball's "World Series". Yes, that is kind of silly. There have been people saying that the winner of the USA WS should, at the very least, play the winner of the Japanese Championships. But the logistics would be a nightmare. Just imagine the jet lag.

Just look at the NFL football games that they have every year in Europe and the teams gripe about that. I can't imagine the NFL even thinking about proposing a game in Japan or Australia. It just wouldn't work.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:13 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:35 pm Good to know that. But that still makes it only the home of US tennis..tennis is the most global of sports ...the US is not its centre, if it ever was ..but, as I said, the very concept of a Hall of Fame is a peculiarly American concept. ..how many sports have it? There is no football Hall of Fame, no cricket Hall of Fame..that I am aware of, anyway..in fact the very word Fame! So I see it as an American concept not likely to take hold in a global world..
There are many HOF.
There is a football (Soccer) HOF. It is in Murcia, Spain.
Spain has a global HOF for sports, for Spanish people.
Other HOF: Automotive, Swimming, Athletics.
England and Canada have HOF for their own. Argentina too.

Yes, it started as an American concept, but other countries and sports got in. And despite the fact that the sport was not invented in the USA, as M8 says, the USO is the second oldest tournament in history (Trivia piece: Canada's Open, now the tournaments in Toronto and Montreal, are the third, beating RG) and the USA was the dominant country in the sport for a considerable time.

About baseball's "World Series". Yes, that is kind of silly. There have been people saying that the winner of the USA WS should, at the very least, play the winner of the Japanese Championships. But the logistics would be a nightmare. Just imagine the jet lag.

A few years ago a playoff of some kind between the winner of the US WS, Japan, Cuba and other countries in Latin America would've been awesome. Now so many Cuban players and increasingly Japanese players as well as players from other Spanish speaking countries are playing for US teams I wonder how it would/could work.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:40 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:13 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:35 pm Good to know that. But that still makes it only the home of US tennis..tennis is the most global of sports ...the US is not its centre, if it ever was ..but, as I said, the very concept of a Hall of Fame is a peculiarly American concept. ..how many sports have it? There is no football Hall of Fame, no cricket Hall of Fame..that I am aware of, anyway..in fact the very word Fame! So I see it as an American concept not likely to take hold in a global world..
There are many HOF.
There is a football (Soccer) HOF. It is in Murcia, Spain.
Spain has a global HOF for sports, for Spanish people.
Other HOF: Automotive, Swimming, Athletics.
England and Canada have HOF for their own. Argentina too.

Yes, it started as an American concept, but other countries and sports got in. And despite the fact that the sport was not invented in the USA, as M8 says, the USO is the second oldest tournament in history (Trivia piece: Canada's Open, now the tournaments in Toronto and Montreal, are the third, beating RG) and the USA was the dominant country in the sport for a considerable time.

About baseball's "World Series". Yes, that is kind of silly. There have been people saying that the winner of the USA WS should, at the very least, play the winner of the Japanese Championships. But the logistics would be a nightmare. Just imagine the jet lag.
A few years ago a playoff of some kind between the winner of the US WS, Japan, Cuba and other countries in Latin America would've been awesome. Now so many Cuban players and increasingly Japanese players as well as players from other Spanish speaking countries are playing for US teams I wonder how it would/could work.

Isn't that what the Olympics are for or are we just talking about professional players competing against one another?

by ponchi101 It was called The World Championships. About 12 countries participated, but it never caught on.
You could have a real World Series in BBall. The Japanese can play. The Koreans too. Let Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic field a full team, and Venezuela could be in the mix.
Sure, call it the World Series. We know it is not

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:08 pm It was called The World Championships. About 12 countries participated, but it never caught on.
You could have a real World Series in BBall. The Japanese can play. The Koreans too. Let Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic field a full team, and Venezuela could be in the mix.
Sure, call it the World Series. We know it is not

So any Major League Professional Baseball Player could represent their country in it?

by ponchi101 Venezuela usually has about 50+ players in the MLB. PR and DR too.
Japan has sent many, many players. The greatest hitter in BB (to me) was Japanese: Ishiro was something to behold.
So, sure. Why not? Have the very best represent their country. DR has enough firepower to challenge anybody. Japan too.
As we are totally off topic: wanna fix the lame NBS All Star game? Make it USA Vs the World. See how competitive that gets IN A HEARTBEAT.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:19 pm Venezuela usually has about 50+ players in the MLB. PR and DR too.
Japan has sent many, many players. The greatest hitter in BB (to me) was Japanese: Ishiro was something to behold.
So, sure. Why not? Have the very best represent their country. DR has enough firepower to challenge anybody. Japan too.
As we are totally off topic: wanna fix the lame NBS All Star game? Make it USA Vs the World. See how competitive that gets IN A HEARTBEAT.

There is a player from Japan in the Major Leagues right now on the Angels named Shotei Ohtani who is considered a Pitcher but can also hit really well and plays I think designated hitter when he is not Pitching. He is really good. I would think Japan, DR, and the United States would really dominate something like this.

by ashkor87 The Laver Cup needs fixing too, while we are about I..maybe Western Europe versus Eastern Europe would be more competitive than Europe versus rest..the rest has nothing to match Europe with! Oh well .but these are, we hop, temporary phenomena..

by Cuckoo4Coco There could be a system with maybe 4 regions involved for Tennis that included (Canada, USA, S.America/Latin America), (The Dominant Region of France/UK/Germany/Italy/Greece/Spain and those countries), (Then Russia, Czech Rep,Kazahstan, China) and then (Australia, Japan, South Africa). They could play on all the surfaces during the tournament so like in S.America they could play on clay and in Britain on Grass and so on.

by ponchi101 That would mean some sort of modified Davis Cup. And remember, the Laver Cup wants to play in big, profitable stadia. It is not there for the glory of the sport, it is there to make money.
The Laver Cup is an exo. As Ashkor says, the current format is flawed because Europe has become the region where all the power comes from. And it does not look like once the Big 3 are gone, it will change much. The highest ranked NON-Europeans are FAA @ 9, Fritz @ 13. That will not cut it. And the upcoming crop is almost all European: Carlitos, Jannik, Rune. Brooksby and Baez are the sole young WORLD players.
Sometimes some ideas simply do not work. It happens in all sports. In the NBA, the All Star weekend has to get rid of the SLAM DUNK contest; this year's was a total mess and, really, by now almost all NBA players can dunk a ball with their eyes looking DOWN into the rim. The skill, at that level of pros, has become diluted because everybody has it. With tennis, Europe will simply be the powerhouse, with an occasional American or Aussie coming along. It would have been a great idea in the 70's. Not anymore.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:01 pm That would mean some sort of modified Davis Cup. And remember, the Laver Cup wants to play in big, profitable stadia. It is not there for the glory of the sport, it is there to make money.
The Laver Cup is an exo. As Ashkor says, the current format is flawed because Europe has become the region where all the power comes from. And it does not look like once the Big 3 are gone, it will change much. The highest ranked NON-Europeans are FAA @ 9, Fritz @ 13. That will not cut it. And the upcoming crop is almost all European: Carlitos, Jannik, Rune. Brooksby and Baez are the sole young WORLD players.
Sometimes some ideas simply do not work. It happens in all sports. In the NBA, the All Star weekend has to get rid of the SLAM DUNK contest; this year's was a total mess and, really, by now almost all NBA players can dunk a ball with their eyes looking DOWN into the rim. The skill, at that level of pros, has become diluted because everybody has it. With tennis, Europe will simply be the powerhouse, with an occasional American or Aussie coming along. It would have been a great idea in the 70's. Not anymore.

I wonder why that is? Is it the development of the players? Is it because the players are exposed to all of the courts like clay, hard, grass where like here in America it is mostly Hard Courts and barely Clay and basically no Grass courts. There are great Tennis Academies all over the United States. Heck I know, I have looked into some of them when I was younger. Extremely expensive, but they are there. I just don't understand why in North America the development isn't even close to Europe.

by ponchi101 Money.
In the USA, any young athlete has a lot of options to chose from, and where the money is appealing. Any young GUY can decide: MLB, NFL, NBA, several Extreme sports, then tennis. But the number of AMERICAN tennis players that make consistent money as a pro must be about 12; the guys in the top 100. Heck, that is an NBA team, where everybody is a millionaire, even on the bench. Plus, you get all your expenses paid.
Look at the women; it is the opposite. In the USA, there has been no drop in the number of female tennis players that are reaching high rankings. Well, a bit, because Europe has also been producing excellent players. But that is because the salaries of any other female athletes pale in comparison. A WNBA player can only dream of a salary like the ones in WTA, and let's not even think of endorsements. I guarantee that Naomi's endorsements probably are more than all of the WNBA combined.
And tennis is expensive. Here in S. America, with a sliver of the population being "middle class", only those and the more affluent can play tennis, which is an expensive sport. Two racquets, lots of balls, court time, shoes, etc. That is a lot of money. Take that money, but on soccer ball, and you have 22 kids playing. And THOSE kids want to make it to the Euro leagues.
Europe is more affluent at the moment. Kids in Spain, France, Italy, and all of Europe, can play for a modicum percentage of their parents' income, if not come up through a federation program. That is unthinkable in S. America, or Africa, and slowly in the USA.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:24 pm And tennis is expensive. Here in S. America, with a sliver of the population being "middle class", only those and the more affluent can play tennis, which is an expensive sport. Two racquets, lots of balls, court time, shoes, etc. That is a lot of money. Take that money, but on soccer ball, and you have 22 kids playing. And THOSE kids want to make it to the Euro leagues.
Europe is more affluent at the moment. Kids in Spain, France, Italy, and all of Europe, can play for a modicum percentage of their parents' income, if not come up through a federation program. That is unthinkable in S. America, or Africa, and slowly in the USA.

Learning tennis is expensive. Regular private lessons, lots of indoor court time. Tennis is highly technical and you need a lot of instruction to get good enough to play collegiately or professionally. But otherwise, I don't think tennis is all that expensive here. Used racket, a couple cans of balls, no special clothes, free courts all over the U.S.

Do you need that much specialized coaching to develop as a young basketball or football player? Coaching you can't get through readily available local leagues, the school system, and and parks and rec programs? I'm not talking about when you get to be a teenager and have shown promise and need some serious coaching. But early on, to see if someone has potential. I don't think those programs are readily available for tennis as they are for more popular sports like basketball, soccer, baseball, football and maybe even volleyball.

by ponchi101 Sure. But if you get to be a GOOD tennis player, you can make money. FOR YOURSELF. A good footballer can make money for himself, AND A TEAM/CORPORATION. So there are scouts all over the place looking for the next Messi, the next Pele. That kid will get a lot of help to LEARN his sport, as opposed to a tennis kid that may be spotted by a good coach, who can say whether the kid can become good enough to reach the pros.
But, as you say, learning tennis is expensive. Connors may have been the sole product of public tennis courts, but his mom was a coach. He had a bit of an edge there.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:42 pm Sure. But if you get to be a GOOD tennis player, you can make money. FOR YOURSELF. A good footballer can make money for himself, AND A TEAM/CORPORATION. So there are scouts all over the place looking for the next Messi, the next Pele. That kid will get a lot of help to LEARN his sport, as opposed to a tennis kid that may be spotted by a good coach, who can say whether the kid can become good enough to reach the pros.
But, as you say, learning tennis is expensive. Connors may have been the sole product of public tennis courts, but his mom was a coach. He had a bit of an edge there.

And the Williams sisters. I think they got pretty good before they got help, right? If the movie is accurate.

You're right about the potential to make someone else money hurting tennis development. Some coaches with academies invest in players for a future payoff, but there aren't nearly as many as teams in other sports.

by Fastbackss Roddick was just on the Kasich/Klepper podcast. He was asked about the notion of tennis being expensive. He bristled at it and said some combination of everything you all mentioned. He gave lots of examples of where it wasn't because of money. He talked about the drive + dedication required to keep pushing when there are other financial obstacles in the way.
He also talked about the importance of having someone there to help see/guide through and keep on track

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:34 pm ...

And the Williams sisters. I think they got pretty good before they got help, right? If the movie is accurate.

You're right about the potential to make someone else money hurting tennis development. Some coaches with academies invest in players for a future payoff, but there aren't nearly as many as teams in other sports.

I never count the Williams in any statistic because they are exceptional. That story is both inspirational and a warning.

by ponchi101

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:57 pm Roddick was just on the Kasich/Klepper podcast. He was asked about the notion of tennis being expensive. He bristled at it and said some combination of everything you all mentioned. He gave lots of examples of where it wasn't because of money. He talked about the drive + dedication required to keep pushing when there are other financial obstacles in the way.
He also talked about the importance of having someone there to help see/guide through and keep on track

Sure. If you don't have the drive and dedication, you won't make it.
But don't tell me that an entire continent like Africa does not have people with drive and dedication, but has produced very few tennis players. What will take you there has to be based on something. And that something is the access to courts, equipment and time.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:57 pm Roddick was just on the Kasich/Klepper podcast. He was asked about the notion of tennis being expensive. He bristled at it and said some combination of everything you all mentioned. He gave lots of examples of where it wasn't because of money. He talked about the drive + dedication required to keep pushing when there are other financial obstacles in the way.
He also talked about the importance of having someone there to help see/guide through and keep on track

I have grown up learning and playing the game of tennis since I was 5 years old. In the beginning of course I never even thought about how much money my grandparents were putting into this for me. I was just having fun. As I got older I did realize that the game of tennis was expensive, but like Andy Roddick said, It comes down to the heart and dedication of wanting to succeed at the game. Yeah, I guess there was a price that came along with that with coaches & lessons and equipment, but when it came down to it the dedication was what I had to keep this going.

Also, I 100% agree that it is extremely important to have the right people to guide me and keep me on track.

by ponchi101 I will tell you the opposite story. A good friend of mine, a bit older, had this son who was a super hotshot. He really could belt the ball, was super fast, and who knows where he could have ended.
Then my friend lost his job when his company (the local branch of a multinational in Venezuela) closed operations. He was hired, for 1/4th his salary, as a part time person in smaller company.
And his son had to stop paying because this kid was a string-breaking machine. It was a $40/day cost, because he would break one set of strings a set; he hit that hard. And his dad had to tell him "we can't afford that".
He took up the guitar (the kid).
Venezuela has not produced a single ATP main tour player in about two decades. Which about the span of time in which we have been living as a dictatorship. The correlation is easy.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:57 pm I will tell you the opposite story. A good friend of mine, a bit older, had this son who was a super hotshot. He really could belt the ball, was super fast, and who knows where he could have ended.
Then my friend lost his job when his company (the local branch of a multinational in Venezuela) closed operations. He was hired, for 1/4th his salary, as a part time person in smaller company.
And his son had to stop paying because this kid was a string-breaking machine. It was a $40/day cost, because he would break one set of strings a set; he hit that hard. And his dad had to tell him "we can't afford that".
He took up the guitar (the kid).
Venezuela has not produced a single ATP main tour player in about two decades. Which about the span of time in which we have been living as a dictatorship. The correlation is easy.

That is such a sad story. Not only for your friend and his son having to give up the game he loved to play, but the whole situation with your country. Do you have to be safe about stuff you say like people in Russia. Like saying stuff against your government could get you in trouble if it was found out?

by ponchi101 Remember a few days ago I told a story about a Tik-Toker being detained at the airport the last time I came back from there to Bogota (where I live). I would not publish anything about Vennieland under my real name. I am totally non-important in Venezuela but they would not care.
I have to go back next week because I have to renew my passport (Venezuela closed its embassy in Colombia, its largest, neighboring country) and I am already freaking out. Yeah, sure, I am a paranoid, but I have been right so many times...

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:23 pm Remember a few days ago I told a story about a Tik-Toker being detained at the airport the last time I came back from there to Bogota (where I live). I would not publish anything about Vennieland under my real name. I am totally non-important in Venezuela but they would not care.
I have to go back next week because I have to renew my passport (Venezuela closed its embassy in Colombia, its largest, neighboring country) and I am already freaking out. Yeah, sure, I am a paranoid, but I have been right so many times...

I don't know your full situation and you probably have family in Venezuela which makes just getting out impossible, but have you ever thought about doing just that? I can't even imagine living in an environment like that as I have never had to experience anything like that at all. I think it would be really scary even for an adult.

by ponchi101 I live outside Venezuela. I live in Colombia. My sister and mom still live there because my sister refuses to leave.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:30 pm I live outside Venezuela. I live in Colombia. My sister and mom still live there because my sister refuses to leave.

That must still be really tough on you.

by Deuce Here's a little 15 minute thing that touches on Leylah's family and what they did for her tennis. They moved from Montreal to Florida mostly due to full year access to free public courts. Sold their car. Etc.
This admittedly just scratches the surface - but it's consistent with the discussion above.

This was done when Leylah was 16 years old (at the beginning of 2019). long before the tennis world knew her. She was slightly known in the Junior circles at the time. Her sister Bianca is about a year younger.

It's done mostly in French, with some bits in English - but you can set the subtitles to English (click on the little gear icon, then click on 'auto-translate', and select English - or whatever language you like).

by mmmm8

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:57 pm Roddick was just on the Kasich/Klepper podcast. He was asked about the notion of tennis being expensive. He bristled at it and said some combination of everything you all mentioned. He gave lots of examples of where it wasn't because of money. He talked about the drive + dedication required to keep pushing when there are other financial obstacles in the way.
He also talked about the importance of having someone there to help see/guide through and keep on track

Didn't know that was a thing!

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:42 am Here's a little 15 minute thing that touches on Leylah's family and what they did for her tennis. They moved from Montreal to Florida mostly due to full year access to free public courts. Sold their car. Etc.
This admittedly just scratches the surface - but it's consistent with the discussion above.

This was done when Leylah was 16 years old (at the beginning of 2019). long before the tennis world knew her. She was slightly known in the Junior circles at the time. Her sister Bianca is about a year younger.

It's done mostly in French, with some bits in English - but you can set the subtitles to English (click on the little gear icon, then click on 'auto-translate', and select English - or whatever language you like).

It is a sacrifice for the family and I know I am on a totally different level than what Leylah is one, but without my grandparents, my mom & dad(when he was still living) and even the dedication of my coaches I wouldn't be able to do nearly as much as I do. Sure I could still go out on the courts and play tennis and probably do really well at it, but without the sacrifices of the people I mentioned above it would definitely be a lot harder.

The people I also mentioned do a lot more for me than just the financial stuff that goes along with this game. They keep me on the right track. They keep my head on straight. They keep the game what it is supposed to be and that is fun. They also know when I need to be a kid and be away from it all. These people I have mentioned have kept the love of the game in my heart since I picked up a racquet when I was 5 years old.

I bet you that is exactly what Leylah would say about her parents and the other people who have helped her along the way. Sure the financial sacrifices are huge, but there is so much more that these people do.

by Deuce Yes, Leylah often mentions the family support. Family is big for them. They have no trophies or even tennis photos in their house - it's about family before tennis.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:30 pm Yes, Leylah often mentions the family support. Family is big for them. They have no trophies or even tennis photos in their house - it's about family before tennis.

That is the way it should be. Ya know there will come a time when tennis at least the way I play it now will be over for me. There will never come a time when my family will never support & love me.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 Andrea Petkovic explains difference in playing Serena Williams, Naomi Osaka https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/n ... omi-osaka/
An interesting take by Petkovic, one of the most thoughtful players out there .

by Cuckoo4Coco

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:26 am Andrea Petkovic explains difference in playing Serena Williams, Naomi Osaka https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/n ... omi-osaka/
An interesting take by Petkovic, one of the most thoughtful players out there .

That is a very good view on playing Serena and Naomi. I would have thought just like the article says that playing Serena would be like you are getting just over powered off the court all the time, but it is true when she is on her game she does so much more. When I watch Naomi play and she is on her game she is like an artist a powerful artist that controls every stroke it seems.

by ponchi101 I forget who was the player that said that the difference between Roger, Rafa and Novak was that, against Rafa and Novak, you felt you were playing. Against Roger, "he does not let you play".
Sampras was the same. Vince Spadea said that against Agassi, you were playing. He was running you ragged, but you were playing. Against Pete, you felt you were not touching the ball.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:21 pm I forget who was the player that said that the difference between Roger, Rafa and Novak was that, against Rafa and Novak, you felt you were playing. Against Roger, "he does not let you play".
Sampras was the same. Vince Spadea said that against Agassi, you were playing. He was running you ragged, but you were playing. Against Pete, you felt you were not touching the ball.

I do hope that Roger can come back and be that player that he was and challenge Novak & Rafa and now Medvedev and the other younger ones. I don't know if that is going to happen, but I hope it does. Maybe one or two more runs at Wimbledon for Roger would be nice. It would be sweet if he could win 10 Wimbledon titles. Don't think it is going to happen, but it would be awesome.

by meganfernandez There’s a brand-new Challenger in Indianapolis this week and Tim van Rijthoven is playing! I’m volunteering a few nights. Hope I get to see him.

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by ponchi101 Pictures, please. Pictures. And let us know about the guy.

by Cuckoo4Coco

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:35 am There’s a brand-new Challenger in Indianapolis this week and Tim van Rijthoven is playing! I’m volunteering a few nights. Hope I get to see him.

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Maybe he will call you onto the court to practice hit with him.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:21 pm I forget who was the player that said that the difference between Roger, Rafa and Novak was that, against Rafa and Novak, you felt you were playing. Against Roger, "he does not let you play".
Sampras was the same. Vince Spadea said that against Agassi, you were playing. He was running you ragged, but you were playing. Against Pete, you felt you were not touching the ball.

Ashe used to say of McEnroe that it was death by a thousand cuts...

by ti-amie

by Cuckoo4Coco

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:01 am

I didn't watch the match and couldn't hear what they were saying, but they were both pretty animated about whatever it was. It looked like some sort of service call from what they were looking on the court at.

by Deuce You could put together a rather long highlight reel of these with Fabio.

On a separate note, the chair umpire did basically nothing. Was this because, as a woman, she was intimidated by the male argument? Or was it because, as a woman, she found it ridiculous and was employing all of her energy to keep from laughing at these clowns?

Someone should have told them they must stop this juvenile nonsense, and continue it in the locker room if they choose to. But this should not be tolerated on the court at any time.

by Owendonovan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:01 am

At first I read "petty", likely would have worked as well.

by mmmm8

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:01 am

Seems fatherhood's really mellowed Fognini out (not joking)

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:34 am You could put together a rather long highlight reel of these with Fabio.

On a separate note, the chair umpire did basically nothing. Was this because, as a woman, she was intimidated by the male argument? Or was it because, as a woman, she found it ridiculous and was employing all of her energy to keep from laughing at these clowns?

Someone should have told them they must stop this juvenile nonsense, and continue it in the locker room if they choose to. But this should not be tolerated on the court at any time.

Not really sure if the chair umpire was intimidated, but if it would have gotten even more stupid and became physically I doubt she would have been able to do anything about it.

It should have been dealt with in the locker room for sure, but some seem to get all stirred up in the heat of the moment and can't control themselves.

by ti-amie I know that there was a discussion of tennis gear here but I can't find it. If this would fit better there please move this post.

by ponchi101 Nah, it's fine here.
3 Grams, at the speed he swings the racquet... I don't have enough of the physics needed to figure out how much more kinetic energy that would generate.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:37 pm Nah, it's fine here.
3 Grams, at the speed he swings the racquet... I don't have enough of the physics needed to figure out how much more kinetic energy that would generate.

Not sure how much power 3 Grams at the speed that Rafa swings the racquet would generate more power than he already generates. That is like adding power onto power.

by ponchi101 You are preparing for a tournament, so DON'T DO THIS IN THE NEXT WEEKS.
Take some lead tape. It comes measured in grams, so you can cut it to the length/weight you want. Add it to the tip of your racquet, and see how 3 grams will change the feel and power. It is the fastest way to increase depth and power on a shot. And buy a few tickets for a really painful tennis elbow.

I did the math. 3 grams, at the tip of the racquet, assuming a racquet head speed of 75MPH, equals 1.7 Joules. Added to the already huge mass of the head. That is a lot.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:45 pm You are preparing for a tournament, so DON'T DO THIS IN THE NEXT WEEKS.
Take some lead tape. It comes measured in grams, so you can cut it to the length/weight you want. Add it to the tip of your racquet, and see how 3 grams will change the feel and power. It is the fastest way to increase depth and power on a shot. And buy a few tickets for a really painful tennis elbow.

I did the math. 3 grams, at the tip of the racquet, assuming a racquet head speed of 75MPH, equals 1.7 Joules. Added to the already huge mass of the head. That is a lot.

Rafa definitely has more strength in his shots then I do whether he would be playing with the lead tape or not. I think if I even suggested to my coach to do something like that he would go into a 30 minute rant on how especially at my age it could ruin my elbow and arm. Just like you said it would be a one way ticket for some serious elbow pain which I really don't need.

I guess I work on my strength and ultimately more power in my shots the more conventional way with light weights and resistant training and that seems to work pretty well for me.

by Fastbackss

by ponchi101

by Deuce Speaking of laughing...

Raducanu Wins ESPY, Tennis Fans React...

.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:02 pm Speaking of laughing...

Raducanu Wins ESPY, Tennis Fans React...

.

I can see what both Emma and Leylah did at last year's US Open was huge, but that does not make a year of achievement. I love Emma & Leylah, but they should not have been up for the award really and Emma should not have won it. Ash hands down if she would not have retired would have won this award. Due to Ash retiring suddenly that opened the door for Iga and her brilliant performance and she easily could have won the award as well.

by Fastbackss The ESPY's are a joke, oft a popularity contest, and I remain convinced the winner is usually whomever is willing to show up to the ceremony

by ponchi101

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:32 pm The ESPY's are a joke, oft a popularity contest, and I remain convinced the winner is usually whomever is willing to show up to the ceremony

And.... case closed. It is a made for TV, "we have nothing else to show tonight" production.
I mean, I have never seen one nor will I ever, but it is indeed a joke.

by meganfernandez

by Cuckoo4Coco

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:55 pm

Was she trying to catch the coin in the air?

by meganfernandez

Cuckoo4Coco wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:55 pm
Was she trying to catch the coin in the air?

Yeah!

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by Cuckoo4Coco

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:00 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:55 pm
Was she trying to catch the coin in the air?
Yeah!

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It was really funny and especially funny as she looks to stumble trying to catch it.

by ti-amie

by Cuckoo4Coco

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:53 pm

I love her. She is one of my new favorites. She is pint sized like me. I even think I might be like an inch or so taller than her. She is a fighter on the court which I love and she seems so nice.

by Deuce Japan's young Owaki brothers...

.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:31 am Japan's young Owaki brothers...

.

WOW!!!!

How old is that kid?

by meganfernandez

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 1:23 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:31 am Japan's young Owaki brothers...

.
WOW!!!! How old is that kid?

He's 9 this year, and his brother is 7.

by Cuckoo4Coco

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:51 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 1:23 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:31 am Japan's young Owaki brothers...

.
WOW!!!! How old is that kid?
They are 7 and 9 this year. Not sure which one this is. The 9-year-old?
https://www.instagram.com/kosuke.o4o5/?hl=en

He is amazing. To be strong enough at that age to hit a consistent and that powerful one handed backhand.

Screen Shot 2022-08-01 at 12.01.08 PM.png

by ponchi101 Ooooh, but the difference was that Connors was a top player. Brooksby is anything but. And with that game, being a hated player will get you in trouble more than out.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:15 pm Ooooh, but the difference was that Connors was a top player. Brooksby is anything but. And with that game, being a hated player will get you in trouble more than out.

I didn't quite understand what the heck Jenson Brooksby was doing at the end of the match with Frances Tiafoe. Frances is one of the most well respected and liked players on the tour and that little dance at the end of the match did not sit too well with Frances. I also don't think that Frances liked very much during one point late in the match when Brooksby let out a very loud squeal or yell during the point. Even the commentators said it could have been a disruption during the point. You never see Frances barely give a hand shake at the end of the match , so he was not very pleased with Jenson.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

Cuckoo4Coco wrote:
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:15 pm Ooooh, but the difference was that Connors was a top player. Brooksby is anything but. And with that game, being a hated player will get you in trouble more than out.
I didn't quite understand what the heck Jenson Brooksby was doing at the end of the match with Frances Tiafoe. Frances is one of the most well respected and liked players on the tour and that little dance at the end of the match did not sit too well with Frances. I also don't think that Frances liked very much during one point late in the match when Brooksby let out a very loud squeal or yell during the point. Even the commentators said it could have been a disruption during the point. You never see Frances barely give a hand shake at the end of the match , so he was not very pleased with Jenson.

After match point, Brooksby did the Lebron Stomp, Lebron’s famous power move. Which is also Tiafoe’s signature celebration - he has borrowed it. So Brooksby was sort of mocking Tiafoe by celebrating beating him with his own move. Bush league.

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by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:Ooooh, but the difference was that Connors was a top player. Brooksby is anything but. And with that game, being a hated player will get you in trouble more than out.

Yeah not sure Brooksby has the goods to pull this off.

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by Deuce Lots of people here criticizing Brooksby... but how many of you know the backstory?
Maybe he and Tiafoe had an argument about something sometime before the match. Maybe Tiafoe did something he shouldn't have done that upset Brooksby.
Or maybe Brooksby is just a spoiled idiot.

The fact is that NONE of us know what precipitated that reaction from Brooksby, if anything. Therefore, none of us are in a position to assess the situation properly.

I'm sure that 95% of those everywhere who are criticizing Brooksby also like to claim that they're 'non-judgmental'.
Yeah, sure...

by ptmcmahon If we could only talk about stuff when we knew the backstory... we'd have no posts at all here.

I'm sure you don't know the backstory for every single comment you make too

Two pages ago you were speculating on why a female chair umpire behaved the way she did... but I bet you don't know her backstory.

by meganfernandez

ptmcmahon wrote:If we could only talk about stuff when we knew the backstory... we'd have no posts at all here. I'm sure you don't know the backstory for every single comment you make too Two pages ago you were speculating on why a female chair umpire behaved the way she did... but I bet you don't know her backstory.

Don’t get me started on WTA retirements.

Benefit of the doubt is usually the hill I die on. But in this case, it came from a tennis insider (who I trust) and there probably isn’t more to it than what we see. There could be, and I’m not condemning the guy, but we can use good judgment here. Most likely, it was a jerk move. Opinions can change as needed.

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by Cuckoo4Coco

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:27 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote:
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:15 pm Ooooh, but the difference was that Connors was a top player. Brooksby is anything but. And with that game, being a hated player will get you in trouble more than out.
I didn't quite understand what the heck Jenson Brooksby was doing at the end of the match with Frances Tiafoe. Frances is one of the most well respected and liked players on the tour and that little dance at the end of the match did not sit too well with Frances. I also don't think that Frances liked very much during one point late in the match when Brooksby let out a very loud squeal or yell during the point. Even the commentators said it could have been a disruption during the point. You never see Frances barely give a hand shake at the end of the match , so he was not very pleased with Jenson.
After match point, Brooksby did the Lebron Stomp, Lebron’s famous power move. Which is also Tiafoe’s signature celebration - he has borrowed it. So Brooksby was sort of mocking Tiafoe by celebrating beating him with his own move. Bush league.

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I thought it was the same thing, but really wasn't paying much attention as I was pretty pissed that Tiafoe lost the match. That is really (bad language) of him for doing that.

by ashkor87 Happy to welcome Elizabeth Mandlik, daughter of the great Hana Mandlikova, to the circuit! Mandlikova is one of my all-time favorites...

by ashkor87 Just sorry she beat Alison Riske, daughter-in- law of India, on her debut but what the heck, welcome anyway !!

by Cuckoo4Coco Until I just read these few posts about Elizabeth Mandlik and seeing that she defeated Alison Riske 6-3, 6-3 last evening in San Jose, I had no idea who she was. I also had to look up Hana Manlikova who you all said had a great career, because I had no idea who she was either. Yes, she did have a tremendous career and retired 16 years before I was born. That is the entire time I have been alive on this earth she has been retired from tennis. WOW. Her kid is now on the pro tour and that is pretty awesome.

by ponchi101 Mandlikova simply had the bad luck of playing in the Navs/Evert era. She was the clear #3 and, as I said before, her FH volley was an outstanding shot, as was her entire game. if you want to teach somebody proper biomechanics on all strokes, but in the classical form (and you would not want to do that today), Mandlikova would be the perfect model (together with Navs). Technique wise, she was at the same level as Leconte.

by Cuckoo4Coco Ya know since joining this forum, I have learned about several players were way before my time and I think that is really cool. Of course I already knew of the really big names like Bille Jean King, Navratilova, Evert, McEnroe,Connors, Sampras, Agassi, and Graf, but my time really started when I was really little Venus & Serena Williams and than Simona Halep, Naomi Osaka, Ash Barty and now Coco Gauff who is my generation.

by ponchi101 It happened to all of us. And, on the flip side, you will be able to see a lot of players that will be the great ones of their era, and that we will not be there to enjoy.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:57 pm It happened to all of us. And, on the flip side, you will be able to see a lot of players that will be the great ones of their era, and that we will not be there to enjoy.

Players like Noskova(17) and Sara Bejlek(16) of the Czech Republic along with Coco Gauff and the other young teens on the tour and the ones in the Juniors, I have a long time to really watch them grow and in some of their cases take over the game.

by Deuce

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:56 am If we could only talk about stuff when we knew the backstory... we'd have no posts at all here. I'm sure you don't know the backstory for every single comment you make too Two pages ago you were speculating on why a female chair umpire behaved the way she did... but I bet you don't know her backstory.

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:56 pm
ptmcmahon wrote:If we could only talk about stuff when we knew the backstory... we'd have no posts at all here. I'm sure you don't know the backstory for every single comment you make too Two pages ago you were speculating on why a female chair umpire behaved the way she did... but I bet you don't know her backstory.
Don’t get me started on WTA retirements.

Benefit of the doubt is usually the hill I die on. But in this case, it came from a tennis insider (who I trust) and there probably isn’t more to it than what we see. There could be, and I’m not condemning the guy, but we can use good judgment here. Most likely, it was a jerk move. Opinions can change as needed.

Give me a bloody break!
This Brooksby B.S. is nothing but pure gossip, worthy of 'Entertainment Tonight' or the National Enquirer.

It's amazing how tremendously eager people are to condemn/crucify someone based on so little knowledge - often based on one occurrence. I guess it makes people feel better about themselves when they step on someone else. It's bad form. And, as I said, these same people love to go around 'proudly' proclaiming how 'non-judgemental' they are. It's pitiful in my eyes.

I'm not saying that Brooksby is a saint. I have no idea what kind of person he is - and neither do any of you. And so I will not assess him, because I am not in a position to do so. I just hate seeing this widespread condemnation and juvenile 'piling on' - especially with someone as young as Brooksby.
Similar condemnation and 'piling on' occurred on this board with Holger Rune a couple of months ago - another kid that people concluded is a 'bad person'.
Incredible. As if none of you have ever done anything wrong or stupid in your youth!

As for my comments about the chair umpire, that situation played out entirely in plain view from beginning to end. And my comments were multi-dimensional - I did not universally condemn her. I mentioned that perhaps she was afraid to intervene between the two players, or maybe she was just trying really hard to keep from laughing at them. I did not blindly condemn her as people are ridiculously doing with Brooksby when they are in no knowledgeable position to do so.

by ptmcmahon Brooskby acting like a jerk happened in plain view too.

And don't say we can't say he acted like a jerk based on age. You've never let that stop you from letting your opinions be known about people you don't like either

The difference is we (usually) don't say you are being juvenille for having opinions different than ours. You're just as opinionated as the rest of us.

If Bianca had done this you would have been rightfully saying the same things as us about her

If you are free to criticize those you don't like, we can call Brooskby a jerk for acting like one.

by Deuce It's not a question of a mere difference of opinion. I see people piling onto a kid based solely on an action that endured literally for 2 or 3 seconds, and which none of those condemning him know the origin of.
I know enough about human psychology to know why people pile on like this. It's an ugly trait.

You don't know if Brooksby acted like a jerk - because you have no idea WHY he did what he did.
THAT'S my point.
Maybe it was a 'jerk move'... or maybe there was a justifiable reason behind it. None of us know.

And I didn't say that people are not free to condemn Brooksby. What I'm saying is that if people are going to do that, I'm going to call them out for what I see as unfair and unjust condemnation of a person's character.
Judging an action for which one does not know the origin is really no different than judging someone's character based on nationality or skin colour. "Oh, he must be a bad person because he did that" when you have no idea WHY he did that is not much different from "Oh, he must be a bad person because he's (insert nationality or skin colour here)".
Maybe they are bad people - and maybe not. Before deciding, one should know more than just one action the person performed, or one's nationality, etc.

Andreescu's arrogance is something obvious. And it wasn't a one-time thing. Repeatedly saying things like "This is only the beginning", asking the crowd for more applause, making fun of winning a set 6-0 with a terrible bagel joke, etc., etc. There are many obvious examples of her arrogance. There's no hidden backstory possible there. But I've also said that I hope she grows out of that and learns some genuine humility.

by Cuckoo4Coco I never said that I knew what Brooksby was like as a person. All I am commenting on is his action on the court the other night in the match against Tiafoe. Apparently Frances Tiafoe who I expect knows Jenson Brooksby a lot better than we all know him was not very pleased with his behavior, so that kind of suggests to me that he is not well liked on the tour.

How many of us would say Nick Kyrgios goes through quite a few antics on the court and not a single one of us knows Nick as a person, but I have seen almost everyone on here say he has issues going on when honestly we have no clue if he does or doesn't. Sure he has the legal problems and that would suggest he has problems going on, but do we know him. No we don't.

So in some ways Deuce is correct in his statement, but with Brooksby his actions the other night were out in plain view and there is completely nothing wrong with verbalizing your disfavor of that. The same goes with verbalizing your disfavor in Nick Kyrgios screaming "Your Done" in a match to Brandon Nakashima.

by Deuce Sigh...

The examples of Kyrgios behaving like a jackass number in the dozens, if not the hundreds, and over the course of several years. Therefore, one can pretty accurately assess his character (and character flaws). Plus, he's not a kid anymore.

With Brooksby, people are ready to condemn his character after ONE action which endured a few seconds, and for which no-one condemning him knows the origin. And he's 21.
I think the difference between this and any assessment of Kyrgios is more than obvious.

As for saying that Brooksby is not well liked on the tour based on Tiafoe not liking Brooksby's behaviour on court the other night - that's the very definition of an unfair assessment.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:18 pm Sigh...

The examples of Kyrgios behaving like a jackass number in the dozens, if not the hundreds, and over the course of several years. Therefore, one can pretty accurately assess his character (and character flaws). Plus, he's not a kid anymore.

With Brooksby, people are ready to condemn his character after ONE action which endured a few seconds, and for which no-one condemning him knows the origin. And he's 21.
I think the difference between this and any assessment of Kyrgios is more than obvious.

As for saying that Brooksby is not well liked on the tour based on Tiafoe not liking Brooksby's behaviour on court the other night - that's the very definition of an unfair assessment.

No... That is not what I am basing the assessment on. There are several times that tennis commentating teams have brought up the fact that the young and upcoming group of American Male players all get along and Jenson Brooksby is the outsider of that group. So it is not based on just the Tiafoe match.

You can also look at it this way between Kyrgios and Brooksby that Nick has been on the tour much longer and has many more opportunities to act like an jackass than just the small percentage of time on the tour that Brooksby has been on the tour.

Everyone has players they choose to cheer for and choose to root against for one reason or another. You have them and I have them. You obviously love Leylah and Bianca is someone that you do not see much of. That is fine. I love Coco Gauff and don't like Nick Kyrgios. I also really like Frances Tiafoe so it irked me even more what Jenson did because it was involving the Tiafoe match.

You even said it, anyone can choose to cheer or B---- & moan about any player they want. That is what being a fan of tennis is all about. Do you really think Jenson Brooksby cares at all what we think or what anyone thinks about him or what he did the other day?

by Deuce So you admit an obvious bias in your condemnation of Brooksby. Nice.

Even if Brooksby is the outsider within the current group of Americans - why do you conclude that means that he's bad or disliked? Maybe he's shy. Maybe he's more intelligent than the rest of them. Maybe he's not as intelligent as the rest of them. There are dozens of possible reasons for him being an outsider - IF that is even true. Why do you assume the worst?
That's blatantly unfair.

Condemning a person's CHARACTER is one of the most serious things a person can do. Therefore, one should be very careful when doing this - i.e. make sure you know what you're talking about and that your assessment - or judgement - is accurate, and based on relevant fact, not on hearsay or gossip or rumours or bias, etc.

by ashkor87 Yes, Mandlikova is the one to learn the volley from...simple, clean, effective and elegant...
That is how I learned the game ..never had a coach in my life, never even went to an academy..just saw action pictures in books and tried to emulate them..in a way, I had the best coaches! I learned the serve from Gonzales, forehand from Gimeno, backhand from rosewall and volley from Sedgman!

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:54 pm So you admit an obvious bias in your condemnation of Brooksby. Nice.

Even if Brooksby is the outsider within the current group of Americans - why do you conclude that means that he's bad or disliked? Maybe he's shy. Maybe he's more intelligent than the rest of them. Maybe he's not as intelligent as the rest of them. There are dozens of possible reasons for him being an outsider - IF that is even true. Why do you assume the worst?
That's blatantly unfair.

Condemning a person's CHARACTER is one of the most serious things a person can do. Therefore, one should be very careful when doing this - i.e. make sure you know what you're talking about and that your assessment - or judgement - is accurate, and based on relevant fact, not on hearsay or gossip or rumours or bias, etc.

Maybe it is because the people that are around him and the tennis commentators have stated he is a bit of an agitator. That is why I conclude that he is like that? Why may I ask do you consider him as maybe being shy? You certainly don't know that to be the case.

I admitted that I favored Frances Tiafoe in the match and he is one of my favorite players on the tour. I also admitted that I was irked by what Brooksby did at the end of that match. That doesn't match me overall biased about him because like you said we don't know these players. I just know what he did on that court at that moment made him look like a total jackass and I am not going to dismiss it. I would do the same for any player and yes even for Coco Gauff if she acted that way. So no there is no bias towards any players. There are just behaviors by players that happen on the court that make them look like jackasses that I do not like and I just don't push them to the wayside and dismiss them no matter if it is their first time or 100th time.

This is a game I love and admire and I don't want to see any of that sort of foolish behavior or disrespect from any player no matter who it is.

by Deuce You stated above that you were even more upset because Brooksby did whatever he did vs. one of your favourite players. So you admitted that you saw what Brooksby did with a biased perspective - because it was against Tiafoe, who you like.

I never indicated that I think Brooksby is shy. As I've stated countless times in this thread, I don't know who Brooksby is. I don't know if he's a jerk or a decent bloke. Neither do any of you. The difference is that because I don't know him, I am not judging his character based on one action, the origin of which I don't know, while the rest of you ARE judging his character based on one action that you don't know the origin of. And in my book, that is both wrong and blatantly unfair - for the reasons I've stated numerous times.
(I mentioned that he may be shy, or more intelligent, or less intelligent than the rest of the American players only as examples of the possible reasons that he has been - apparently - referred to as 'an outsider' - my point being that you should not conclude that his character is bad simply because he's an outsider - if that's even true -, or based on an action for which you don't know the origin.)

Again - judging a person's character is a very serious matter. It doesn't matter squat if Brooksby doesn't read this forum. Condemning a person and (PRE)judging his character as being 'bad', and people piling on, can do significant damage to a person's reputation among the public.
And that's simply not right.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:16 am You stated above that you were even more upset because Brooksby did whatever he did vs. one of your favourite players. So you admitted that you saw what Brooksby did with a biased perspective - because it was against Tiafoe, who you like.

I never indicated that I think Brooksby is shy. As I've stated countless times in this thread, I don't know who Brooksby is. I don't know if he's a jerk or a decent bloke. Neither do any of you. The difference is that because I don't know him, I am not judging his character based on one action, the origin of which I don't know, while the rest of you ARE judging his character based on one action that you don't know the origin of. And in my book, that is both wrong and blatantly unfair - for the reasons I've stated numerous times.
(I mentioned that he may be shy, or more intelligent, or less intelligent than the rest of the American players only as examples of the possible reasons that he has been - apparently - referred to as 'an outsider' - my point being that you should not conclude that his character is bad simply because he's an outsider - if that's even true -, or based on an action for which you don't know the origin.)

Yes because of the incident and action that Brooksby created. Not Brooksby as an individual, because as you said and as I stated and agreed with you in the first response to your post I don't know Jenson Brooksby at all. I agree with you 100% about that. All I am try to say is what he did on the court at that very moment made him look like a complete jackass and those type of incidents, I don't dismiss because I for one love the game of tennis and don't feel there is a place for that sort of showmanship or disrespect to other players on the court. It is the same thing when I called out Nick Kyrgios at Wimbledon for shouting out at Brandon Nakashima "You're Done" when he was about to win the match. Total disrespect and no need for that in the game of tennis in my opinion. I will call out that sort of thing every time a player does something like that no matter who the player is.

by Deuce But, again - you don't know what precipitated the Brooksby action when he beat Tiafoe.
Maybe it was him ridiculing Tiafoe's 'celebrations'.
Maybe Tiafoe did something bad or stupid to upset and/or disrespect Brooksby at some point before or during the match, and Brooksby 'retaliated' for that by mocking Tiafoe's 'celebration'.
Maybe Tiafoe stole Brooksby's lunch earlier in the day...

The fact is, without knowing WHY Brooksby did that, no-one should condemn his character - or even the action.
What I saw was people very eagerly condemning him and piling on, as if it's some sort of game. And I don't like that.

Knowledge is the most important ingredient in any assessment. Without knowledge of facts, any assessment - or judgement - is completely misplaced and unfair.

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:47 am Yes, Mandlikova is the one to learn the volley from...simple, clean, effective and elegant...
That is how I learned the game ..never had a coach in my life, never even went to an academy..just saw action pictures in books and tried to emulate them..in a way, I had the best coaches! I learned the serve from Gonzales, forehand from Gimeno, backhand from rosewall and volley from Sedgman!

I only read about Gonzalez. Never saw him play.
But all the news and comments I read, always, were that he was simply the best player EVER. And that was said from people like Kramer and Laver.
And if on top, you claim you learned your BH from Rosewall, I would love to play a set with you. The most solid slice ever. That one there is no doubt.

by ashkor87 Doesn't mean I can hit like him!

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:35 am But, again - you don't know what precipitated the Brooksby action when he beat Tiafoe.
Maybe it was him ridiculing Tiafoe's 'celebrations'.
Maybe Tiafoe did something bad or stupid to upset and/or disrespect Brooksby at some point before or during the match, and Brooksby 'retaliated' for that by mocking Tiafoe's 'celebration'.
Maybe Tiafoe stole Brooksby's lunch earlier in the day...

The fact is, without knowing WHY Brooksby did that, no-one should condemn his character - or even the action.
What I saw was people very eagerly condemning him and piling on, as if it's some sort of game. And I don't like that.

Knowledge is the most important ingredient in any assessment. Without knowledge of facts, any assessment - or judgement - is completely misplaced and unfair.

You could same the same thing about Nick's antics on court. You have no idea what is going on in his head to make him do or say what he does on the court, but everyone speculates with him and that seems perfectly fine. We could speculate that it is all sorts of scenarios. It still doesn't make it the right thing to do, disrespecting someone out on the court like that. If he wanted to do something like that then do it in the locker room. If both he and Frances had something between them don't show it out on the court.

There was a match just before the Brooksby one and after the match both players started arguing on the court about a call and it went on and on like something was not settled between the two players. That is the sort of thing that should not be on the court and should be taken back to the locker room. The same with Nick Kyrgios disrespecting Brandon Nakashima at Wimbledon. Cursing in the heat of the battle for making a bad shot or something like that is going to happen on the court, but disrespecting your opponent on the court should never happen and I don't care what you say how it happened or what made it happen it still happened and it shouldn't have and it made Brooksby look bad. That is all I am going to say about it.

by Deuce

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:08 am
Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:35 am But, again - you don't know what precipitated the Brooksby action when he beat Tiafoe.
Maybe it was him ridiculing Tiafoe's 'celebrations'.
Maybe Tiafoe did something bad or stupid to upset and/or disrespect Brooksby at some point before or during the match, and Brooksby 'retaliated' for that by mocking Tiafoe's 'celebration'.
Maybe Tiafoe stole Brooksby's lunch earlier in the day...

The fact is, without knowing WHY Brooksby did that, no-one should condemn his character - or even the action.
What I saw was people very eagerly condemning him and piling on, as if it's some sort of game. And I don't like that.

Knowledge is the most important ingredient in any assessment. Without knowledge of facts, any assessment - or judgement - is completely misplaced and unfair.
You could same the same thing about Nick's antics on court. You have no idea what is going on in his head to make him do or say what he does on the court, but everyone speculates with him and that seems perfectly fine.

No - Kyrgios - as I've mentioned already and as is extremely obvious - has a long, long, long track record of vulgar, disrespectful, abusive behaviour. Brooksby does not.
It's beyond comparing apples to oranges.

I cannot possibly make the distinction any more clear than I already have several times.
Nor can I make more clear that the 'character assassination' of Brooksby, and the piling on, is grotesquely unfair in my opinion.

by Deuce .

Get to Know Elizabeth Mandlik - Hana Mandlikova's Daughter...

.

by ptmcmahon

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:32 am
I cannot possibly make the distinction any more clear than I already have several times.
Nor can I make more clear that the 'character assassination' of Brooksby, and the piling on, is grotesquely unfair in my opinion.

Let us know when he's hit your required threshold that we're allowed to say his bush league antics ... were bush league then

What's the threshold for number of times you have to act like a jerk before we can call you one here. Looks like we're up to 3 so far? Is 5 the magic number? 10?

by Deuce

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:51 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:32 am
I cannot possibly make the distinction any more clear than I already have several times.
Nor can I make more clear that the 'character assassination' of Brooksby, and the piling on, is grotesquely unfair in my opinion.
Let us know when he's hit your required threshold that we're allowed to say his bush league antics ... were bush league then What's the threshold for number of times you have to act like a jerk before we can call you one here. Looks like we're up to 3 so far? Is 5 the magic number? 10?

When did I ever say that you're not allowed to say what you want?
Never.
You say what you want, and I say what I want. That's the nature of a discussion board, is it not?
I don't like what you're saying, so I say so - and I even make the effort to explain - painstakingly - exactly why I don't like it.
Then you tell me that you don't like me telling you that I don't agree with what you're saying.
Since when it is a discussion board rule that people must agree??

The utter hypocrisy in people lambasting - and piling on - Brooksby for one single action (which none of those criticizing know the origin of), and these same people preaching 'tolerance' and 'fairness' and 'non-judgementalism' is at once sad and comical.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:03 pm
ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:51 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:32 am
I cannot possibly make the distinction any more clear than I already have several times.
Nor can I make more clear that the 'character assassination' of Brooksby, and the piling on, is grotesquely unfair in my opinion.
Let us know when he's hit your required threshold that we're allowed to say his bush league antics ... were bush league then What's the threshold for number of times you have to act like a jerk before we can call you one here. Looks like we're up to 3 so far? Is 5 the magic number? 10?
When did I ever say that you're not allowed to say what you want?
Never.
You say what you want, and I say what I want. That's the nature of a discussion board, is it not?
I don't like what you're saying, so I say so - and I even make the effort to explain - painstakingly - exactly why I don't like it.
Then you tell me that you don't like me telling you that I don't agree with what you're saying.
Since when it is a discussion board rule that people must agree??

The utter hypocrisy in people lambasting - and piling on - Brooksby for one single action (which none of those criticizing know the origin of), and these same people preaching 'tolerance' and 'fairness' and 'non-judgementalism' is at once sad and comical.

The bottom line and I think you still don't get my point at all with what I was saying is I am not criticizing the person Jenson Brooksby at all, because as you say I don't know Jenson Brooksby at all. I am criticizing the action/behavior/and blatant disrespect I saw him do at that moment on the court. That action or behavior is what was wrong. Yes, he did it. We all saw him do it. Does that make him a horrible person?(Probably not) It just shows that he did something that was very disrespectful on the court and I cannot dismiss something like that. I don't care what brought it on or whatever. It should not be something that is shown on the court. Unless there is a racist remark thrown his way or someone says something about his family then there should not be anything like this that happens. Before you say that could have been the case, think before your say anything because if that would be the case Brooksby would have mentioned that serious issue against him and there was nothing like that mentioned.

So you are correct, we can have whatever views we care to have on a forum and can express those views in any way if they follow the rules which we all have done in this debate which I find really awesome. So honestly, I don't have any problem with any of this I guess debate or whatever you want to call it.

by meganfernandez Gulbis didn't actually break the racket, so this can't go in the Racket Smashing thread. The future Latvian Tennis Federation president, everyone. Stay for his commentary.

by Cuckoo4Coco

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:19 pm Gulbis didn't actually break the racket, so this can't go in the Racket Smashing thread. The future Latvian Tennis Federation president, everyone. Stay for his commentary.

by Cuckoo4Coco Going to rant a little more about the sleeveless shirt incident with Ben Shelton.

I keep watching the women play and they almost all have sleeveless tops and many of them are showing off their bellies as well. I don't get it.

by Deuce

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:17 pm The bottom line and I think you still don't get my point at all with what I was saying is I am not criticizing the person Jenson Brooksby at all, because as you say I don't know Jenson Brooksby at all. I am criticizing the action/behavior/and blatant disrespect I saw him do at that moment on the court. That action or behavior is what was wrong. Yes, he did it. We all saw him do it. Does that make him a horrible person?(Probably not) It just shows that he did something that was very disrespectful on the court and I cannot dismiss something like that. I don't care what brought it on or whatever. It should not be something that is shown on the court. Unless there is a racist remark thrown his way or someone says something about his family then there should not be anything like this that happens. Before you say that could have been the case, think before your say anything because if that would be the case Brooksby would have mentioned that serious issue against him and there was nothing like that mentioned.

If you are calling his action 'disrespectful', you should definitely care what brought it on. And you should find out what brought it on before you form an opinion.
Because any opinion or assessment without knowledge of the facts that led to it is unfair.

by ponchi101

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:25 pm Going to rant a little more about the sleeveless shirt incident with Ben Shelton.

I keep watching the women play and they almost all have sleeveless tops and many of them are showing off their bellies as well. I don't get it.

I say:
ATP players should go full gladiator style: only a coat of oil should cover them.
WTA: transparent tunics.

And with that, I have to ban myself from this forum. See you people tomorrow!

by Deuce

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:25 pm Going to rant a little more about the sleeveless shirt incident with Ben Shelton.

I keep watching the women play and they almost all have sleeveless tops and many of them are showing off their bellies as well. I don't get it.

The ATP doesn't market their product through visual appeal (yet). The WTA likes to market tennis via visual appeal. I find that quite unfortunate. And stereotypical. Have you seen the 'photos/drawings' of the players that they produced? They are in full make-up, basically unrecognizable, swinging a racquet.
It's another case of women saying that they want to be recognized and appreciated and valued for their intellectual and emotional and even athletic abilities, but the default always seems to be to focus very primarily on their looks.
Many women criticize men for recognizing only a woman's looks, or 'sex appeal'... and then they themselves put the primary focus on their looks.

To me, this is the real 'sexism'.

I, myself, can recognize what is a good looking woman to me... but I don't like it when women deliberately draw attention to their appearance by showing more skin, or painting themselves up, etc.
I always value their intellectual/psychological/emotional (and athletic, if it applies) capacities more than I value their physical appearance.
Sometimes my friends will point out a good looking woman and say "She's beautiful, isn't she?" And I will always respond "I have no idea if she's beautiful, because I don't know what kind of person she is."
Beauty is not only skin deep - and the more we take the focus away from physical appearance, and place it more on personality and character, the better off we'll all be.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:31 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:17 pm The bottom line and I think you still don't get my point at all with what I was saying is I am not criticizing the person Jenson Brooksby at all, because as you say I don't know Jenson Brooksby at all. I am criticizing the action/behavior/and blatant disrespect I saw him do at that moment on the court. That action or behavior is what was wrong. Yes, he did it. We all saw him do it. Does that make him a horrible person?(Probably not) It just shows that he did something that was very disrespectful on the court and I cannot dismiss something like that. I don't care what brought it on or whatever. It should not be something that is shown on the court. Unless there is a racist remark thrown his way or someone says something about his family then there should not be anything like this that happens. Before you say that could have been the case, think before your say anything because if that would be the case Brooksby would have mentioned that serious issue against him and there was nothing like that mentioned.
If you are calling his action 'disrespectful', you should definitely care what brought it on. And you should find out what brought it on before you form an opinion.
Because any opinion or assessment without knowledge of the facts that led to it is unfair.

Maybe you are correct, but I could also end up on a long goose chase with no ending because there is no ending. These players are to come out on the court and play a game. Entertain the crowd without any of this on court crap that goes on. If they have issues with one another take care of that business elsewhere. Not on the tennis court. That is what Brooksby did that day, regardless of where it came from. That is what Nick Kyrgios does pretty much every match regardless of where it came from and it is plain and simply wrong . Fabio Foglini also does the same crap and it is wrong.

by Cuckoo4Coco

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:40 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:25 pm Going to rant a little more about the sleeveless shirt incident with Ben Shelton.

I keep watching the women play and they almost all have sleeveless tops and many of them are showing off their bellies as well. I don't get it.
I say:
ATP players should go full gladiator style: only a coat of oil should cover them.
WTA: transparent tunics.

And with that, I have to ban myself from this forum. See you people tomorrow!

I am all for the ATP version, especially Ben Shelton.

Hell, I will feed him grapes between the games as well.

by Cuckoo4Coco

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:54 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:25 pm Going to rant a little more about the sleeveless shirt incident with Ben Shelton.

I keep watching the women play and they almost all have sleeveless tops and many of them are showing off their bellies as well. I don't get it.
The ATP doesn't market their product through visual appeal (yet). The WTA likes to market tennis via visual appeal. I find that quite unfortunate. And stereotypical. Have you seen the 'photos/drawings' of the players that they produced? They are in full make-up, basically unrecognizable, swinging a racquet.
It's another case of women saying that they want to be recognized and appreciated and valued for their intellectual and emotional and even athletic abilities, but the default always seems to be to focus very primarily on their looks.
Many women criticize men for recognizing only a woman's looks, or 'sex appeal'... and then they themselves put the primary focus on their looks.

To me, this is the real 'sexism'.

I, myself, can recognize what is a good looking woman to me... but I don't like it when women deliberately draw attention to their appearance by showing more skin, or painting themselves up, etc.
I always value their intellectual/psychological/emotional (and athletic, if it applies) capacities more than I value their physical appearance.
Sometimes my friends will point out a good looking woman and say "She's beautiful, isn't she?" And I will always respond "I have no idea if she's beautiful, because I don't know what kind of person she is."
Beauty is not only skin deep - and the more we take the focus away from physical appearance, and place it more on personality and character, the better off we'll all be.

1000% agree with you. I think a person should look at what is on the inside before they worry about what is on the outside. I am just still a kid and I don't really spend time on make up and hair unless I am going out to something important. Like the other day, I had the tournament Ice Breaker get together and I wanted to look nice for that so I did dress up nice for that and wore some make up and did my hair as much as I usually do it. My looks are what they are, if people or boys don't get into that then I don't care. I honestly would want to find a boy who wants to get to know me from who I am as a person and not what I look like.

I have seen a few Roger Federer and Rafa Ads where they are dressed up and looking nice, but not like the photos that I have seen of the ladies of the tour. I imagine the ladies get compensated well for those ads, but really it is not setting the best image for girls like me.

by ptmcmahon

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:03 pm
When did I ever say that you're not allowed to say what you want?
Never.
You say what you want, and I say what I want. That's the nature of a discussion board, is it not?
I don't like what you're saying, so I say so - and I even make the effort to explain - painstakingly - exactly why I don't like it.
Then you tell me that you don't like me telling you that I don't agree with what you're saying.
Since when it is a discussion board rule that people must agree??

The utter hypocrisy in people lambasting - and piling on - Brooksby for one single action (which none of those criticizing know the origin of), and these same people preaching 'tolerance' and 'fairness' and 'non-judgementalism' is at once sad and comical.

Telling other people we are all being utter hypocrits and are lambasting someone is not encouraging discussion. Like usual when discussing anything with you you have a firm opinion and you are going to repeatedly call us names like hypocrits if we don't agree with you. That's not discussion - that's resorting to name calling because we don't all agree with you. It makes most of us just not want to have any discussions with you - it's not worth our effort.

by meganfernandez

by ponchi101 Just when you are about to say they ALL are spoiled brats...
Nah, the reality is that most of them are really good people.

to Shang.

by Deuce

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:55 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:03 pm
When did I ever say that you're not allowed to say what you want?
Never.
You say what you want, and I say what I want. That's the nature of a discussion board, is it not?
I don't like what you're saying, so I say so - and I even make the effort to explain - painstakingly - exactly why I don't like it.
Then you tell me that you don't like me telling you that I don't agree with what you're saying.
Since when it is a discussion board rule that people must agree??

The utter hypocrisy in people lambasting - and piling on - Brooksby for one single action (which none of those criticizing know the origin of), and these same people preaching 'tolerance' and 'fairness' and 'non-judgementalism' is at once sad and comical.
Telling other people we are all being utter hypocrits and are lambasting someone is not encouraging discussion. Like usual when discussing anything with you you have a firm opinion and you are going to repeatedly call us names like hypocrits if we don't agree with you. That's not discussion - that's resorting to name calling because we don't all agree with you. It makes most of us just not want to have any discussions with you - it's not worth our effort.

If it's not a discussion, why do you keep returning with your opinions, which you seem to think are more valid than mine?
Not only that, but you've made repeated attempts to make me the subject of the discussion. Why? Why not stick to the topic at hand?
And, gee - I see even more hypocrisy from you in that you're criticizing me for being critical of your perspective on the Brooksby thing, and then you turn right around and criticize me very personally. Yeah - 100% hypocrisy right there.

I said that people were lambasting Brooksby because people were. That's not a criticism, it's simply a fact. And I didn't think it was fair, and I explained why (several times). And I called the hypocrisy of criticizing a person's character without A) knowing him, as this is the only thing the critics are judging him on, and B) not knowing what was behind his gesture... while at the same time, these critics are claiming to be 'tolerant', 'fair', 'non-judgemental' people, etc. Again - I'm not creating the hypocrisy here - it's there in plain sight for everyone to see. I'm simply pointing out what's there.

And I said very generally that people are lambasting Brooksby and being hypocritical. I didn't single any particular person out.
Yet you target me very specifically with your insults and criticisms... all while telling me I shouldn't criticize generally.
Ok - if you think I should criticize more personally like you, fine. You're a hypocrite.
There. Happy now?

by ptmcmahon You’d already called us that though. I was quoting what you’d already said. So no, saying it again doesn’t make me happy

Anyways like usual I know you’ll keep replying so I’ll just re-engage the ignore button and you can have your last reply and we’ll move on like usual.

by Deuce Yes - but the personal hypocrisy claim wasn't for the Brooksby thing, it was for you telling me I'm too critical in my general statements, and then turning around and insulting and criticizing me personally.

I don't know why you have a problem with someone stating a position and defending it, PT...
I engaged with C4C, who is apparently 16 years old, and, though we didn't agree, we had a discussion, and neither of us seem to have had a problem with it...

by Cuckoo4Coco Okay, I am gonna say this one time and that is it. Having a discussion is all cool and everything , but I do not like when name calling becomes involved in the conversation. I did not feel that was the case towards me and maybe that was left out towards me because of my age or maybe I was just too naive to notice it. Either way, it should never be a part of the conversation.

That said, I think we all have a different point of view on this and nothing we are going to say any more on here is going to change those views so it should probably just stop.

I don't like or have the right to tell anyone or adults what to do, so you both can do whatever you feel like doing, but from here on out I am out of it.

by ti-amie This should maybe go in the Equipment section but I didn't want to start a new thread there. If you feel that this could be there please move it.

by Deuce No need to hire a hitting partner when you've got children of your own!
Tatjana Maria and her daughters in Toronto (first one is cute; second one is funny)...

by Deuce

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:47 am Andreescu gets by Kasatkina in a crazy and dramatic(!) 1st set that lasted almost 90 minutes and went to a tiebreak.
The set included the obligatory Medical Time Out for Andreescu, which included some pills taken, as well as having her blood pressure and heart rate measured.

But that's not all (of course)!

In the middle of the tiebreak (not at a change of sides), Andreescu seemed dazed and went over to sit on her chair. Tournament referee (and fellow Canadian) Tony Cho - whose wife is the chair umpire for this match - came out, along with two trainers... and she stayed sitting on her chair for a couple of minutes before resuming the tiebreak (and winning it).

But that's still not all (of course)...

After the tiebreak, Andreescu left the court - with her racquet bag - for a lengthy (7 minute) absence.
Now she's back.
It's anyone's guess what we're in for in the 2nd set...

.......................................

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:58 am No... actually Daria looked quite pissed off at the handshake and as she walked off the court - upset with Andreescu's ongoing drama, which occurs, in some fashion, in every match that she plays.
It'll be interesting to hear what Daria says in her press availability.

There was more drama and arrogance in the post match on-court interview, where Andreescu began with "I don't want to be dramatic, but..." un huh... but you ALWAYS make sure that you are!
After the interviewer mentioned Coco, her fashion accessory dog, at the end of the interview, Andreescu pointed at herself with both hands and said to the crowd "Eyes over here, ok, guys... I know that Coco is a fan favourite, but let's focus on me, ok?"

She's like the Djokovic of the women's tour. Remember how pretty much all the players disliked Djokovic at the beginning when he was constantly pulling the injury/sickness drama on court? Djokovic is not much more liked today by fellow players even though he stopped that drama - reputations tend to stick.
Similarly, I don't see Andreescu making many friends on the tour with her attitude.

Apparently, I wasn't the only person upset with Andreescu's overdone drama a couple of nights ago.
I don't think it was deliberate gamesmanship from her - I think she does this for the attention, not to help throw her opponent off. She is a very self-centered young woman, and she does things to make sure that she's the centre of attention.

Here is an article about the overdone drama she created a couple of nights ago (which I described in the 2 posts quoted above)...

'Drama Queen' Andreescu Tries to Defend Herself Against Her Critics...

.

by ti-amie Well thanks to Zheng Qinwen we don't have to put up with her anymore.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:25 am Well thanks to Zheng Qinwen we don't have to put up with her anymore.

Zheng is an exciting player! Looking forward to watching more of her.

by ponchi101 She can quickly become a major star. No weaknesses, the game is there, she has the looks, and of course, she would have the backing of 1 BB people.
She will be a major favorite for the tournaments in China.
Wait...

by Deuce After the first time I saw Qinwen play, I said that she has a good chance to be what everyone thought Sabalenka would be.

by Canucklehead Zheng is a tall drink of water, serves very well and has solid ground strokes.

by Deuce Current players who seem to have been influenced in their appearance by other players...

Here are two. Can you think of any others?

Stefanos Tsitsipas - obvious influences of Borg and Agassi...

And

Jack Draper with the 'Isner look'...
.
.

by Deuce .

Federer Keeps His Promise to a Kid...

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by JTContinental Coco Vandeweghe ended Bernarda Pera's winning streak at 14 in the finals of the 125 tournament played this week. This was Pera's third straight final.

by Deuce .

Genie Bouchard News (On-Court!)...

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by Suliso Do we think China leg (ATP) will be back next year or it's gone longer term?

by ponchi101 Back. The ATP will not take the stand that the WTA has, because that is tied to Peng Shuai. Maybe Murray will be the player deciding not to play, and could sway a few other players.
Other than that: too much money to be made in Beijing/Shanghai.

by Suliso I think I wasn't clear enough here. ATP would like to be back this year too, but couldn't due to China's covid policy. The actual question is whether that is likely to change? If not ATP has no chance of returning...

by ponchi101 Ah. In that case, no idea here. But I gather that China would like those tournaments back. They are very high in showcasing they are a world power.

by ti-amie I agree with Suliso on this one. If they're admitting it's bad imagine how much worse it must be.

by Suliso They certainly are, but seem to be even more keen on eradicating covid.

It's very difficult to travel to China now even for Chinese. My girlfriend has a Chinese friend (married to a local Swiss guy) who'd really like to visit parents in Beijing, but tickets cost 10k+ and you have to quarantine in a government institution for 3 weeks...

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez Sounds like a very big deal and impactful on the US Open. Tyzzer said Barty struggled with those light balls a lot. But I wouldn't consider Barty a big hitter. Wouldn't fast/light balls favor a lighter hitter by giving them more zip, while causing big hitters to overhit? Sabalenka and Osaka are huge hitters, and they have done well with the ball.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:21 pm

by ti-amie Why can't they get the balls in Europe though? This would seem to give WTA players based in the US some advantage, however slight.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:40 pm Why can't they get the balls in Europe though? This would seem to give WTA players based in the US some advantage, however slight.

Guess the Wilson Regular Duty just isn't distributed there. But how hard can it be to special-order them for the #1 player in the world? Or any top player? Someone here could ship them cases of the balls.

by ti-amie

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:42 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:40 pm Why can't they get the balls in Europe though? This would seem to give WTA players based in the US some advantage, however slight.
Guess the Wilson Regular Duty just isn't distributed there. But how hard can it be to special-order them for the #1 player in the world? Or any top player? Next time I go to Europe, I'll take some cans and sell them on the black market.

I think Iga said that when they do order them what they get isn't the same as what is used in tournament play.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:43 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:42 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:40 pm Why can't they get the balls in Europe though? This would seem to give WTA players based in the US some advantage, however slight.
Guess the Wilson Regular Duty just isn't distributed there. But how hard can it be to special-order them for the #1 player in the world? Or any top player? Next time I go to Europe, I'll take some cans and sell them on the black market.
I think Iga said that when they do order them what they get isn't the same as what is used in tournament play.

They must be ordering from a European distribution center, though. They need to buy Wilson Regular Duty when they're in the States in the spring and ship them home themselves. Heck, she can pay someone to fly here, buy 10 cases, ship them, and return to Europe.

This doesn't seem like a hard problem to solve, right? A tad inconvenient, but if it's so important, it's worth the trouble.

She's probably right about switching the balls. Why don't they use the same ball for the whole year? Why switch at all? Or at least the same ball for each surface.

by ponchi101 Well, we know why they don't use the same balls. Wimbledon has its contract with Slazenger. Babolat has become a force in Europe, Wilson or Head are the premier manufacturers in the USA. It is the same as always: $$$.
And if you try to make it a universal ball, the AELTC will not abide. So welcome to multiple balls.

by ti-amie The death watch has begun. Do we have an Iga is washed up thread yet?

by ponchi101 No, not that much. She is 20 and remember how she went after her 1st RG. She also took a dip.
She is still a top player. It is just that right now, TOP PLAYER means something very different than in the 80's, 90's and 2000's.

by ti-amie

by AcesAnnie The USO women's field has become even more wide open. With the recent struggles of Swiatek, this adds even more of the ladies having a shot at winning the USO championship. It is going to be very interesting.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:29 pm

Excuse me? Stefanos is part and parcel of this situation. Apostolos is not coaching him and Stefanos is openly saying "Please, stop". Stefanos is in full agreement.

by ti-amie Well this is a surprise. Madison Keys loves the lighter balls.

/s

by ponchi101 I prefer Wilson's Extra Duty. A bit harder.
But I play very differently than Maddie (also keeping in mind she is like 10 times better).

by ashkor87 Just to clarify.. how the court surface and speed matters:

in general, there are two kinds of players - those who generate their own power and pace - Osaka, Andreescu, Rybakina, Keys, Sabalenka, Pavlyuchenkova, Swiatek, Kvitova, Alexandrova, Samsonova..
who do not need help from the court to hit winners - they can do ok on a slow court as well.
The other kind are players who use the opponents' pace, and basically redirect it - Bencic, Kerber, Leylah, Raducanu, Sloane fall in this category.. they need a fast court to help them hit winners precisely because they cannot generate their own pace. They are ok on a fast court because they have great reflexes and eyesight, good footwork, move well.
of course there are those who are in between - Halep, for instance, is quite versatile.

by ponchi101 Serious here. If that is the relationship, why was Sampras less effective the slower the court? It is not as if the man was unable to generate power, especially on his serve and FH. Yet, his record there was not as excellent as on the (at the time) super fast courts at Wimbledon.
Becker too.
(Yes, their S&V style has to be taken into account).
If there were a single fast court still being used, S&V would still be a viable style. Instead, we have 25-shots rallies being played at Wimbledon. I am pretty sure that Rod Laver NEVER played a 15 shot rally there. I can guarantee it.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:49 pm Serious here. If that is the relationship, why was Sampras less effective the slower the court? It is not as if the man was unable to generate power, especially on his serve and FH. Yet, his record there was not as excellent as on the (at the time) super fast courts at Wimbledon.
Becker too.
(Yes, their S&V style has to be taken into account).
If there were a single fast court still being used, S&V would still be a viable style. Instead, we have 25-shots rallies being played at Wimbledon. I am pretty sure that Rod Laver NEVER played a 15 shot rally there. I can guarantee it.

I think it's just one dimension, maybe an important dimension, but other factors can offset or mitigate the rule. It seems logical that a big hitter could rip through a slow court if they like a lot of time to set up, and a counterpuncher with great movement and redirection might like the speed of a fast court to help them out. But also that a defender might like more time to reach the ball, and a big hitter could benefit from even more lethal shots, like Osaka and Serena. I dunno. So many factors.

If the dynamic is legit, maybe it's more pronounced among women because of the serve, which sets so much of the tone in the men's game.

Sampras wasn't banging away at the baseline, so I think he isn't subject to this theory. I assume the slow court dampened his S&V weapons more than it enhanced his baseline game.

by ashkor87 Also, as you rightly say, there are other factors, Sampras may have simply been uncomfortable moving on clay...most Americans are. And he did win the Italian once, I think...

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:08 pm Also, as you rightly say, there are other factors, Sampras may have simply been uncomfortable moving on clay...most Americans are. And he did win the Italian once, I think...

Also semi'd the French and had the great Davis Cup on indoor clay vs Russia. Wasn't like he was hopeless on clay. Just not his best surface.

by AcesAnnie Watching Sabalenka play Rogers last evening, I don't think a fast court or a slow court would have mattered much to her playing style whatsoever. She seemed to want to hit the ball as flat and as hard as she could on almost every possible shot she could making Rogers have less time to react. It worked on many occasions for her.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:10 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:08 pm Also, as you rightly say, there are other factors, Sampras may have simply been uncomfortable moving on clay...most Americans are. And he did win the Italian once, I think...
Also semi'd the French and had the great Davis Cup on indoor clay vs Russia. Wasn't like he was hopeless on clay. Just not his best surface.

Davis Cup inspires some people...I remember watching isner in clay against Spain, nearly beat Nadal..Stan Smith beat Nastase on clay...I guess for one match they can summon up reserves...

by ponchi101 I am surprised that you are saying ONE match. Sampras basically won that tie alone. Beat Cheznokov in a titanic 5 setter, then had to play the doubles with Martin because Courier lost to Kafelnikov, and then beat Kafelnikov handily for the 3rd point.
It was one of the bravest DC ties, because the Russian watered the court so much the ITF fined them.

by ashkor87 are they using the lighter balls at Cinci? Toronto? San Jose? one unnamed coach did say it was a factor in why Raducanu and Leylah made it to the finals last year.. wonder how true that is.. any thoughts?

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:are they using the lighter balls at Cinci? Toronto? San Jose? one unnamed coach did say it was a factor in why Raducanu and Leylah made it to the finals last year.. wonder how true that is.. any thoughts?

The whole Us Open Series uses The lighter Wilson Regular Duty for women.

Also - they still call it the US Open Series?? Thought that branding experiment died.

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by ponchi101 It did. They had a bonus that you cashed at the USO. If you won the series, depending on how far you went in the USO, you got the bonus. It was pretty hefty, too.
But it did not make players play more, so it was dropped.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:21 pm It did. They had a bonus that you cashed at the USO. If you won the series, depending on how far you went in the USO, you got the bonus. It was pretty hefty, too.
But it did not make players play more, so it was dropped.

Yeah, not the best use of money. I think the name lives on... ugh.

by AcesAnnie I could only imagine Sabalenka hitting one of these lighter balls, and how far they would travel out of the court.

by ti-amie

by patrick Pregnant? Retirement?

by ponchi101 Retirement no. She is still young.
Engagement could be, too.

by Suliso

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:20 pm Retirement no. She is still young.
Engagement could be, too.

Not at all. Many have retired earlier than her 33.

by AcesAnnie

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:38 pm

Cannot wait to hear what the news is from Vika.

by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:47 pm
ashkor87 wrote:are they using the lighter balls at Cinci? Toronto? San Jose? one unnamed coach did say it was a factor in why Raducanu and Leylah made it to the finals last year.. wonder how true that is.. any thoughts?
The whole Us Open Series uses The lighter Wilson Regular Duty for women.

Also - they still call it the US Open Series?? Thought that branding experiment died.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

did MIami and IW do the same? they are not part of the erstwhile 'US Open series' i suppose? I am just trying to see - if Miami and IW used the same balls, Swiatek should not be complaining - if they didnt, maybe she has a point..?

by ashkor87

AcesAnnie wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:44 pm I could only imagine Sabalenka hitting one of these lighter balls, and how far they would travel out of the court.

it will go into orbit maybe...

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:47 pm
ashkor87 wrote:are they using the lighter balls at Cinci? Toronto? San Jose? one unnamed coach did say it was a factor in why Raducanu and Leylah made it to the finals last year.. wonder how true that is.. any thoughts?
The whole Us Open Series uses The lighter Wilson Regular Duty for women.

Also - they still call it the US Open Series?? Thought that branding experiment died.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
did MIami and IW do the same? they are not part of the erstwhile 'US Open series' i suppose? I am just trying to see - if Miami and IW used the same balls, Swiatek should not be complaining - if they didnt, maybe she has a point..?

US Open series = the North American harcourt tournaments in the summer. So I guess IW and Miami don’t use the Regular Duty Wilson. Don’t know what they use.

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by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:39 am
AcesAnnie wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:44 pm I could only imagine Sabalenka hitting one of these lighter balls, and how far they would travel out of the court.
it will go into orbit maybe...

Hit a plane landing at LaGuardia.

by ti-amie

AcesAnnie wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:44 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:38 pm
Cannot wait to hear what the news is from Vika.

Big whoop. She's starting a podcast.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:44 pm
Big whoop. She's starting a podcast.

I was surprised so many thought it would be much else tbh.

by ponchi101 Well, it is so much of a non-news that I wonder why she went with tweet.
But I am such an ignoramus with SM...

by JazzNU

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:48 pm
US Open series = the North American harcourt tournaments in the summer. So I guess IW and Miami don’t use the Regular Duty Wilson. Don’t know what they use.

Not quite. It's basically whatever the USTA designates as being part of the Series for that year. It does not count North American hard court tournaments as a rule. The usual suspects are locks to be part of the series, but not necessarily the others. Granby and Cabos this year, for instance, don't count as part of the series. Chicago didn't count last year even though Cleveland did and does again this year. And this year Newport counts for the men. There might be a method to the madness, but I couldn't tell you what it is.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:14 pm Well, it is so much of a non-news that I wonder why she went with tweet.
But I am such an ignoramus with SM...

She did something similar I think when she was announcing the first season. I don't think it got this much attention though and I don't think she phrased it as a "big announcement" coming soon, more like a big project or something like that.

So many people jumping to thin she was going to announce her retirement tells me her rebranding has been far more successful than I realized and people have poor memories. Cause this smiley, seemingly friendly Azarenka is cute and all, but I remember the old one very well. And that Azarenka, even if ready to retire yesterday, would hobble along on one leg for another full year rather than retire in Serena's shadows with little fanfare.

by AcesAnnie

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:44 pm
AcesAnnie wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:44 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:38 pm
Cannot wait to hear what the news is from Vika.
Big whoop. She's starting a podcast.

Oh, I was hoping she was pregnant.

by JazzNU

AcesAnnie wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:30 pm
Oh, I was hoping she was pregnant.

Honestly, was just as confused by this guess by many. I didn't understand the guess or the want of it. Is this short memories at work again?

by Deuce I didn't care at all what the 'announcement' would be.
And I still don't.

by AcesAnnie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:56 pm
AcesAnnie wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:30 pm
Oh, I was hoping she was pregnant.
Honestly, was just as confused by this guess by many. I didn't understand the guess or the want of it. Is this short memories at work again?

I just think this was just wanting me to be happy for her. I guess I can be happy for her as she is starting a podcast, but it is not on the same level as having a baby.

by ashkor87 I like Vika, but her most lasting legacy will be her shrieking! there have been grunters before her, but Vika took it to a new level..

by ponchi101 I find her at about the same decibels as Sharapova and Seles, so it was not more extreme.
Still, I always hit the mute button during her matches.

by 3mlm

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:52 pm I find her at about the same decibels as Sharapova and Seles, so it was not more extreme.
Still, I always hit the mute button during her matches.

Decibels maybe, but more prolonged duration, almost to being a hindrance.

by ponchi101 I probably hit the MUTE button halfway through her screams.

by JazzNU

AcesAnnie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:51 am
JazzNU wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:56 pm
AcesAnnie wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:30 pm
Oh, I was hoping she was pregnant.
Honestly, was just as confused by this guess by many. I didn't understand the guess or the want of it. Is this short memories at work again?
I just think this was just wanting me to be happy for her. I guess I can be happy for her as she is starting a podcast, but it is not on the same level as having a baby.

Gotcha. I tend to think people see Leo and think how adorable and forget the epic level of drama involved to get here. Being cautious on who she gets involved with in the future, let alone who she has a kid with seems like a massive understatement on the approach she'd likely take. I'm not thinking it would be any sort of true surprise as this would've been.

by JazzNU Ben Shelton turning pro to the surprise of very few.

by ponchi101 Yes. It would seem NCAA is no longer a challenge. Let's see how far she goes.
BTW. Good that he plans to continue his studies. Big

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:16 pm Yes. It would seem NCAA is no longer a challenge. Let's see how far she goes.
BTW. Good that he plans to continue his studies. Big

Agree about the studies in finance. He can write a paper on how to make $100,000 in four weeks.

I wonder if this mean he can take the prize money he has earned in the last month, on top of the $80,000 he's guaranteed in NYC.

by AcesAnnie From the little I have seen of Ben Shelton, this kid has a bright future in the pro tour. I wish him all the luck in the world.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote:

2-Slam Mugu has made more than 4-Slam Osaka? Was her 2020 US Open prize money slashed because of COVID?

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by ponchi101 She has played a few more years and Naomi has played very little for the last 18 months. And yes, the prize money for the 2020 USO was cut down.
On the other hand, what Naomi makes in endorsements makes everybody else look pale.

by JazzNU It's also not really 2-Slam Muguruza. Think of it as 3-Slam with the WTA Finals being the 3rd. It pays out like a GS. Actually, if there's no covid, her check is likely 2 times the amount it was, because Ash's was massive in 2019.

Naomi has never played a tournament heavy schedule, even less than what Garbine plays many times, which is saying something and plays a big part as well. The 2020 US Open money was down, but I think was still higher than whatever Garbine would've gotten in 2016 and 2017 I think it was for her GS titles.

I'm more shocked that Ash isn't atop the list given that record WTA Finals payout, the Grand Slams, and the Miami Opens. That time off I guess is the difference, but I still would've thought she was atop the list.

And it should go without saying that Naomi is getting the last laugh in any of these breakdowns.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:She has played a few more years and Naomi has played very little for the last 18 months. And yes, the prize money for the 2020 USO was cut down.
On the other hand, what Naomi makes in endorsements makes everybody else look pale.

Osaka has won quite a few other tournaments, though. IW, in Asia… Mugu hasn’t had strong tour results, IMO. Ten titles to Osaka’s 7, and it seems like Osaka’s are bigger. IW, for instance. Mugu has the WTA Finals.

by ponchi101 Sure. right now, if there were only one more slot in the HOF, and it boils down to Mugu/Naomi, I say the choice if clear.
Just pointing out that Mugu has been around a bit longer. Which could be an explanation.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:Sure. right now, if there were only one more slot in the HOF, and it boils down to Mugu/Naomi, I say the choice if clear.
Just pointing out that Mugu has been around a bit longer. Which could be an explanation.

Very true. Since 2014! Time flies.

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by meganfernandez Ben Shelton getting the marquee treatment already. Agent’s hard at work.

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by ponchi101 Whomever becomes the next US Men's Slam champion is going to reap a windfall.
But that is a good combo. Leylah/FAA Vs Pegula/Shelton is a lot of new faces on the court.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:Whomever becomes the next US Men's Slam champion is going to reap a windfall.
But that is a good combo. Leylah/FAA Vs Pegula/Shelton is a lot of new faces on the court.

Ben might not even have to win for this to happen. I think Tony Godsick is his agent. (EDIT: yes, he signed with Team 8 this week).

by meganfernandez Gotta say I don't remember Jerome Golmard. But what a forehand. Service motion looks like Pete to me, but it's Henman. I don't remember him having such a muscular serve. Maybe I just haven't seen Pete's serve in a long time.

by ponchi101 NOBODY has seen Pete's serve in a long time. Pete's power came from one of the most flexible, lose arms ever. If you detail his serve, the racquet head, at the lowest point, almost reached his waist. From there, it was that long, flowing whiplash that left people wondering what went by them.
You don't remember Jerome Golmard? You are doing better than I, because I am sure I never heard of Jerome Golmard. But yes, what a FH.

by AcesAnnie I certainly don't remember Jerome. I am surprised, I don't remember that FH though. That is some powerful stuff.

by Deuce I saw Taylor Fritz hit several similar cannon forehands on the practice court a few weeks ago. Very impressive.
Of course, it's easier to do in practice, when there are no consequences, than it is in a match.

The hardest forehand I ever saw hit in a match belonged to James Blake in one particular match.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:40 pm I saw Taylor Fritz hit several similar cannon forehands on the practice court a few weeks ago. Very impressive.
Of course, it's easier to do in practice, when there are no consequences, than it is in a match.

The hardest forehand I ever saw hit in a match belonged to James Blake in one particular match.

That's interesting. For me, probably Gonzo.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 8:18 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:40 pm I saw Taylor Fritz hit several similar cannon forehands on the practice court a few weeks ago. Very impressive.
Of course, it's easier to do in practice, when there are no consequences, than it is in a match.

The hardest forehand I ever saw hit in a match belonged to James Blake in one particular match.
That's interesting. For me, probably Gonzo.

Yes - but I'm referring to forehands that land INSIDE the court area.

by AcesAnnie I have seen Gael Monfils hit some pretty hard forehands before.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 8:18 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:40 pm I saw Taylor Fritz hit several similar cannon forehands on the practice court a few weeks ago. Very impressive.
Of course, it's easier to do in practice, when there are no consequences, than it is in a match.

The hardest forehand I ever saw hit in a match belonged to James Blake in one particular match.
That's interesting. For me, probably Gonzo.
Yes - but I'm referring to forehands that land INSIDE the court area.

2007 Australian Open, he got some to land in.

I loved the wild shots that missed by 50 feet. Just spectacular abandon from that wing.

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by ponchi101 Blake Vs Federer at the USO.
Of course, being Roger, he blocked it and the ball had so much power, from Blake, that Roger hit a BH winner down the line. Blake was still finishing his swing.

by meganfernandez Anyone remember much about Sampras's title run in 2002, 20 years ago? What I remember is that the media laughed and snickered when he said he felt confident. No one gave him a chance. He was on a two-year title drought and had lost in Wimbledon to George Bastl in R2. But damn if Sampras didn't pull it off in fairytale style, beating Agassi in the final. Just wondering if anyone has memories of the tournament that year.

by AcesAnnie

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:24 pm Anyone remember much about Sampras's title run in 2002, 20 years ago? What I remember is that the media laughed and snickered when he said he felt confident. No one gave him a chance. He was on a two-year title drought and had lost in Wimbledon to George Bastl in R2. But damn if Sampras didn't pull it off in fairytale style, beating Agassi in the final. Just wondering if anyone has memories of the tournament that year.

I remember that he won and I remember that I was a lot younger then.

by ponchi101 Basically tattooed on my frontal lobes.
Pete beat Rusedski, I think, in 3R. After the loss, which was a very tough 5 setter, Rusedski said that if Pete kept playing that way, he would lose in the next round. Well, he didn't, and he didn't.
The year before Pete had lost to Hewitt in the final. In '02, Agassi took Hewitt out in the SF. I believe that if Hewitt had played Sampras in the final, he would have repeated. Sampras didn't respect Hewitt's return of serve, and in '01 he S&V in first and second serve, and Hewitt carved him up. But in '02, with Agassi as the opponent, Sampras stayed back on 2nd serves; that helped him, and it was because he respected Agassi's return.
And of course. For all of Sampras's fans, even the very last point was a delight. Both of us (JazzNu and I

) must remember it vividly: Pete served into Agassi's body, and volleyed straight at him. Agassi tried a FH passing shot that went a bit high and Sampras volleyed a sharp BH backhand for the final point. So, not only he won his last match ever, something that will be very hard to repeat; his LAST POINT was a winner at the net.
We could not have written that ending better.
Of course, in 2003, when he came back for his goodbye ceremony, people finally showed him the appreciation. I do love Roger and Rafa, but for me, it will always be Pete. The most spectacularly quite player of all times.

by JazzNU

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:24 pm Anyone remember much about Sampras's title run in 2002, 20 years ago? What I remember is that the media laughed and snickered when he said he felt confident. No one gave him a chance. He was on a two-year title drought and had lost in Wimbledon to George Bastl in R2. But damn if Sampras didn't pull it off in fairytale style, beating Agassi in the final. Just wondering if anyone has memories of the tournament that year.

The media were insufferable. I liked Agassi considerably less than I likely would've due to how much they were willing to hype him as a favorite even ranked in the 100s and how much they were chastising Sampras for not playing a lot in the recent years and how there was no way he had a chance, not framing him as the GOAT, but as someone who had lost early in a few recent tournaments and was therefore washed up. You'd have thought he was at the very least on a wild card entry into the tournament the way they were talking (he was ranked in the Top 20 if memory serves). I was super annoyed by it all, felt it was wildly disrespectful.

I agree that it was the following year that the media showed him appreciation. Heading into 2002 US Open, the tone was not nearly as gracious or appreciative and that really continued for awhile. I remember quite a few just continually saying, well that was a great win, but now he has to face X younger player and that will be that. It wasn't until I think beating Haas I want to say that the tone started to change a bit. But most still seemed to think Roddick would beat him. Sampras dusted off Andy quickly, it wasn't competitive, and that's when I can remember not necessarily true belief in Sampras winning it all, but there was excitement that there would be Sampras vs. Agassi matchup yet again for the finals, and that was something to start getting pumped about and they did.

by ponchi101 I had forgotten he beat Roddick handily (so much for that tattoo).

by Deuce This is the best tennis player name since Anna Smashnova...
A 16 year old American girl...

Mia Slama...

I hope she makes it to the WTA level.

by meganfernandez Where are the tennis kits? Haven’t see. Any photos. Wonder what Serena will wear.

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by JazzNU

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:20 pm Where are the tennis kits? Haven’t see. Any photos. Wonder what Serena will wear.

Not sure on Serena since hers is always different, but have seen the main ones for Nike, Adidas, Fila, and Asics. I'm underwhelmed across the board. Hoping some look better than photos or the special variations on the bigger stars are more appealing.

by Deuce Only the Drama Queen can pull something like this.
You can't make this stuff up...

Andreescu Pleads For Outfit Change at US Open: "This dress is so bad"...

.

by meganfernandez A few of the million hidden nuances behind results that puzzle us so much.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ponchi101 Good for her to be open about it.
So, maybe for her, next Slam don't play the week before. Maybe that is the formula for her. For example, Samsonova did not have that problem yesterday.

by Owendonovan

Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:14 am Only the Drama Queen can pull something like this.
You can't make this stuff up...

Andreescu Pleads For Outfit Change at US Open: "This dress is so bad"...

.

I kinda love this.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:05 pm Good for her to be open about it.
So, maybe for her, next Slam don't play the week before. Maybe that is the formula for her. For example, Samsonova did not have that problem yesterday.

Sure, everyone's different. For all we know Samsonova had similar issues but they didn't reveal themselves. It's probably not that easy to always not play before a Slam, especially in Daria's position, coming back from an injury. You need matches, wins, confidence, points... Does she forsake a small even where she thinks she could do well to spend a few more days prepping in NY, an environment she clearly doesn't love? It's give and take. And someone has to play the tour events the week before a Slam.

That isn't Saville's only issue - she doesn't play her best in the chaotic environment. Some people thrive in it, some don't. Each tournament's environment comes to bear on the results. I thought the part about having so many more people around - industry people, not fans, who are also supporters - creating more pressure was interesting. The whole dynamic at a Slam is different, and managing it is part of succeeding. Some people do it better than others. Probably takes some experience.

The point is that there are so many factors we are blind to.

by ponchi101 That's another thing. I understand that Slams are important, but you can't disregard the rest of the year. For all that we talk, BHM had a very successful grass court season, and Kasatkina had a very good N. American tour. It just did not happen at the slams.

by ti-amie Re Andreescu's little tantrum

by ponchi101 Yes. I wonder how a brain cannot compute that calling the product of a sponsor that pays you millions "Terrible" is not the greatest of ideas.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:18 pm Yes. I wonder how a brain cannot compute that calling the product of a sponsor that pays you millions "Terrible" is not the greatest of ideas.

Nike doesn't need her. Let's see if she keeps that clothing contract past this year.

by ponchi101 I don't know. She is the sole Canadian Slam winner, ever. And Leylah is not going to change that anytime soon, nor is Shapo, their other signee.

by ti-amie Don't you have to keep up a certain level of performance to continue to wear Nike?

by ponchi101 I don't think so. You have to SELL a lot of gear, and then they keep you, regardless.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:04 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:05 pm Good for her to be open about it.
So, maybe for her, next Slam don't play the week before. Maybe that is the formula for her. For example, Samsonova did not have that problem yesterday.
Sure, everyone's different. For all we know Samsonova had similar issues but they didn't reveal themselves. It's probably not that easy to always not play before a Slam, especially in Daria's position, coming back from an injury. You need matches, wins, confidence, points... Does she forsake a small even where she thinks she could do well to spend a few more days prepping in NY, an environment she clearly doesn't love? It's give and take. And someone has to play the tour events the week before a Slam.

That isn't Saville's only issue - she doesn't play her best in the chaotic environment. Some people thrive in it, some don't. Each tournament's environment comes to bear on the results. I thought the part about having so many more people around - industry people, not fans, who are also supporters - creating more pressure was interesting. The whole dynamic at a Slam is different, and managing it is part of succeeding. Some people do it better than others. Probably takes some experience.

The point is that there are so many factors we are blind to.

I think the point is that Gavrilova/Saville is in control of who comes to support/bother her during Majors.
SHE is the one who decides whether to have an agent or not... SHE is the one who decides whether to accept the conditions of sponsors or not... or even whether to have sponsors at all.
So... to create conditions yourself and then complain that those conditions put too much pressure on you is rather weak in my view.

As well - the conditions at the U.S. Open and other Majors have probably remained more or less the same for a while now - things like the chaotic action/noise on the outer courts, only seeds being able to practice on certain courts, etc. And Gavrilova has been around long enough to know how things work. And so if SHE decided to play Granby the week before N.Y., she can't legitimately complain that she had no time to practice on the U.S. Open courts!
And, obviously the various elements and conditions are not going to please or be comfortable for everyone. Each player will like some things about Majors, and dislike other things about Majors - Gavrilova is no different from any other player in this.

Perhaps she should also mention that her sponsors are paying her a significant amount of money just to wear their clothes or use their racquet... that the players at the Majors are very spoiled by the services - all the food you can eat, workout rooms, massages, being driven to and from, etc., etc. - not to mention a very significant payout for playing, no matter how far you get in the tournament.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:40 pm I don't think so. You have to SELL a lot of gear, and then they keep you, regardless.

Correct. Bianca moves the needle for them and that's what matters.

Also, the way she went about this was obviously not good or professional, but similar complaints popped up with a different Nike dress either this year or last. They have different versions within the same style and as time goes on during a tournament, you may seem almost all of the players wearing nearly identical styles instead of the mix that was initially intended. This tends to be why, there's something uncomfortable about one of the designs and the players figure it out along the way. We usually hear about it as locker room gossip from one of the commentators on a match who is free to dish about it, but it does tend to get out in some manner, just usually not in this manner.

You definitely DO NOT need to keep a certain level of performance to stay with Nike. I'm so not going to get into yet another conversation where I have to defend him, but Nick has never once been close to losing his Nike sponsorship and that should tell you plenty.

by ti-amie AND Nike just signed Sinner and Shelton.

by ashkor87 Petkovic retiring...will miss her, she is one of the most thoughtful and insightful players out there..hope she continues to be associated with tennis in some way ..coach, commentator, whatever...I for one would always be interested in what she has to say..

by ashkor87 Interesting factoid - Badosa leads the tour in mastery of tie breaks..20 wins out of 22, that is 89%
I always think tiebreaks come down to mental strength, knowing your own strengths, not going for shots you don't have...good for Badosa! Djokovic and Nadal used to be leaders on the men's side, not sure about now..
And Zheng has just set a new record with 21 ace in a single match at the USO .
Interesting, i never thought of her as a big server

by patrick

JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:13 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:40 pm I don't think so. You have to SELL a lot of gear, and then they keep you, regardless.
Correct. Bianca moves the needle for them and that's what matters.

Also, the way she went about this was obviously not good or professional, but similar complaints popped up with a different Nike dress either this year or last. They have different versions within the same style and as time goes on during a tournament, you may seem almost all of the players wearing nearly identical styles instead of the mix that was initially intended. This tends to be why, there's something uncomfortable about one of the designs and the players figure it out along the way. We usually hear about it as locker room gossip from one of the commentators on a match who is free to dish about it, but it does tend to get out in some manner, just usually not in this manner.

You definitely DO NOT need to keep a certain level of performance to stay with Nike. I'm so not going to get into yet another conversation where I have to defend him, but Nick has never once been close to losing his Nike sponsorship and that should tell you plenty.

If I recall years ago, Serena got an earful from Nike due to her play (or lack thereof) while Nike was praising Sharapova to no end even when she was struggling on court or with injury.

by ti-amie

patrick wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 11:12 am
JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:13 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:40 pm I don't think so. You have to SELL a lot of gear, and then they keep you, regardless.
Correct. Bianca moves the needle for them and that's what matters.

Also, the way she went about this was obviously not good or professional, but similar complaints popped up with a different Nike dress either this year or last. They have different versions within the same style and as time goes on during a tournament, you may seem almost all of the players wearing nearly identical styles instead of the mix that was initially intended. This tends to be why, there's something uncomfortable about one of the designs and the players figure it out along the way. We usually hear about it as locker room gossip from one of the commentators on a match who is free to dish about it, but it does tend to get out in some manner, just usually not in this manner.

You definitely DO NOT need to keep a certain level of performance to stay with Nike. I'm so not going to get into yet another conversation where I have to defend him, but Nick has never once been close to losing his Nike sponsorship and that should tell you plenty.
If I recall years ago, Serena got an earful from Nike due to her play (or lack thereof) while Nike was praising Sharapova to no end even when she was struggling on court or with injury.

There was some talk late last year that Nike might drop Andreescu and that that was why she was suddenly back playing matches. Thanks for confirming that at one point Nike did expect a certain level of play from those who wore it's apparel.

by JTContinental Surprising no one I'm sure, Sam Querrey has announced his retirement from tennis after his first round loss.

by nelslus

JTContinental wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:13 pm Surprising no one I'm sure, Sam Querrey has announced his retirement from tennis after his first round loss.

....Sam who?

by ti-amie

nelslus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:46 pm
JTContinental wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:13 pm Surprising no one I'm sure, Sam Querrey has announced his retirement from tennis after his first round loss.
....Sam who?

Oh you mean the guy who once said he didn't care if he won or lost because he could always go home and drive his mother's Porsche? That guy?

by nelslus

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:41 pm
nelslus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:46 pm
JTContinental wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:13 pm Surprising no one I'm sure, Sam Querrey has announced his retirement from tennis after his first round loss.
....Sam who?
Oh you mean the guy who once said he didn't care if he won or lost because he could always go home and drive his mother's Porsche? That guy?

OH, Porsche. Now, Porche we all know.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez Roger’s message to Serena. Crickets from Sharapova.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ponchi101 If Sharapova does not send anything, she will be roasted for not sending anything. If she does, she will be roasted for being a hypocrite.
Can't win scenario.

by skatingfan Why would anyone expect Sharapova to send a congratulatory message to Serena?

by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:00 am Why would anyone expect Sharapova to send a congratulatory message to Serena?

It was a joke. I'm not sure I expect it, but they were main rivals and a lot of champions are acknowledging Serena publicly. I know, Sharapova couldn't touch Serena, but I'm pretty sure Sharapova would consider Serena an important figure in her own career. That said, I doubt Serena released a public message for Sharapova when she retired. But Serena's retirement is more of a public ceremony with a chorus of compliments from lots of players and celebrities; Sharapova's retirement wasn't. For all we know, Sharapova has sent Serena a private message.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:27 pm
patrick wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 11:12 am
If I recall years ago, Serena got an earful from Nike due to her play (or lack thereof) while Nike was praising Sharapova to no end even when she was struggling on court or with injury.
There was some talk late last year that Nike might drop Andreescu and that that was why she was suddenly back playing matches. Thanks for confirming that at one point Nike did expect a certain level of play from those who wore it's apparel.

Serena and Maria were never treated equally, so that's hardly surprising and it was very common for commentators and TPTB to regularly chastise the Williams sisters and never have the same level of criticism for Maria no matter how similar the situation was.

Nike does their tennis business in a very specific way. Like I said, Nick's Nike contract has never been in doubt. Sharapova kept her Nike contract throughout her entire doping suspension. Bouchard was with Nike thru like 2020 and she was hot garbage for years before that as well all know.

With lower and mid level players, performance absolutely plays a large part in who they keep and who they get rid of. Successful player and one of their marketing draws are two different things. Just because you're highly ranked (Halep, for instance) doesn't mean you're not on what amounts to a more expensive standard contract acknowledging your ranking. For players that are marketing draws, they care way less about your performance and way more about how much influence you have with their targeted customers.

Nike culled their roster about two years ago, so many got dropped. That was done for those where performance matters a great deal and inconsistent players were definitely on the chopping block. For instance, that's when Caroline Garcia and Borna Coric were dropped. But Andreescu, who has been to Oregon HQ for design meetings, does not fall into that category even a little bit. She's in the higher category. None of this is rumor, it's fact and just how Nike operates. Also, to a large extent how Adidas operates as well.

To go along with this, Emma was with Nike before she had her breakout at Wimbledon and won the US Open. She was surely on one of the standard contracts where performance matters a lot. That has obviously all changed and no matter what her ranking, she has zero chance of Nike losing interest and not upping her contract to something significant if it hasn't already happened even if she falls to 200. Her reach is significant and Nike cares little about performance when that is on the table. And that happens regularly when people hit, where if they have good traction, their performance will matter less as their profile rises.

by ponchi101 The only exception I can recall to your story (JazzNu's) was when Nike dropped Agassi, late in his career. He was still a solid draw and a beloved player, yet they let him go and kept Pete.
But they do drop very good players when they drop in the ranking based on "appeal", and keep others simply because Madison Avenue sends in the report.
Adidas does it too. They are businesses, not charities.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:08 pm The only exception I can recall to your story (JazzNu's) was when Nike dropped Agassi, late in his career. He was still a solid draw and a beloved player, yet they let him go and kept Pete.
But they do drop very good players when they drop in the ranking based on "appeal", and keep others simply because Madison Avenue sends in the report.
Adidas does it too. They are businesses, not charities.

There are definitely exceptions. And I would also guess they've evolved their strategy in how they evaluate to a large extent in the last 10 years with social media being such a significant part of the equation.

Sloane is someone who based on performance, should probably not be hanging on to her Nike sponsorship, but she hasn't just held onto it, she's one of their top players. Note the specialized Nike kits she has at every slam. Every GS comes around and I check to see if she's wearing an ordinary one and she never is. That's about her brand being very strong.

by Suliso Often it's obvious to me who's brand is going to be strong, but occasionally it's not...

by ponchi101 Delpo. Never even got close to losing any of his contracts, because he is adored in Argie.
Ferrero. Lost them the moment he left the top 10 because he was liked and respected in Spain, but nothing special.
Hewitt. Lost them because, well, he was/is a jerk. Dropped in rankings, get lost.
Guga. Same as Delpo, in Brasilian.
Vika. Still with Nike/Wilson. I gather she sells a lot there (let's see how that goes with the sanctions) because her results don't justify that (unless the contract has been reworked).

by Suliso Who's Petra with? She's got to be fairly popular.

by ponchi101 Kvitova has been with Nike/Wilson forever. Don't see her losing those until she retires.

by JazzNU

Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:41 pm Who's Petra with? She's got to be fairly popular.

She's with Nike. I know she's one of your favorites, but no, not that popular in terms of Nike, but has worked a ton in recent years with great effect to increase her sponsorship money.

If I had to guess, I'd say that despite the extremely successful Czech women's tennis program, the market for sportswear in Czech Republic may not be one that is thriving the way you'd expect it to be.

by Suliso

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:53 pm If I had to guess, I'd say that despite the extremely successful Czech women's tennis program, the market for sportswear in Czech Republic may not be one that is thriving the way you'd expect it to be.

That's clear. One would have to manage to appeal more widely. 10 million Czechs alone will not make you very rich. Eight million Swiss probably won't either despite the high purchasing power here. Then again if you're Federer or Hingis everything is possible regardless of your home market.

by JazzNU

Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:03 pm
JazzNU wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:53 pm If I had to guess, I'd say that despite the extremely successful Czech women's tennis program, the market for sportswear in Czech Republic may not be one that is thriving the way you'd expect it to be.
That's clear. One would have to manage to appeal more widely. 10 million Czechs alone will not make you very rich. Eight million Swiss probably won't either despite the high purchasing power here. Then again if you're Federer or Hingis everything is possible regardless of your home market.

Yes, it's not just about your home market. But that can play a big part to bolster you. Wozniacki and Ivanovic, for instance, are great examples of it not being about your home market but your overall appeal and reach. Ana similar to Juan Martin, has kept her Adidas contract in her retirement.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Time to say goodbye. Thankful for 22 years of fulfilling my dream daily. To all that were with me my eternal thanks, none of this would have been possible without you. One cycle ends, another one begins.

by ponchi101 If Collins starts the 2nd week of the US Open with no clothing sponsor, somebody really has to slap her team.
I mean, I COULD market this girl. And I can't sell ice to a Bedouin.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:35 am

Bruno has always been a class act.
Most people don't know who he is because he's been a 'doubles specialist' for a long time... but he's one of the most respectable and respected players on the tour.
A very down to Earth and genuinely nice guy. He'll be missed.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:10 am If Collins starts the 2nd week of the US Open with no clothing sponsor, somebody really has to slap her team.
I mean, I COULD market this girl. And I can't sell ice to a Bedouin.

I wonder if she even have an agent. Usually a player can get a short-term patch deal if they go deep in a tournament.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:03 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:35 am
Bruno has always been a class act.
Most people don't know who he is because he's been a 'doubles specialist' for a long time... but he's one of the most respectable and respected players on the tour.
A very down to Earth and genuinely nice guy. He'll be missed.

I guess he's going all in on his acai business, Oakberry.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:10 am If Collins starts the 2nd week of the US Open with no clothing sponsor, somebody really has to slap her team.
I mean, I COULD market this girl. And I can't sell ice to a Bedouin.

She needs to learn to smile ..

by dryrunguy

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:37 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:10 am If Collins starts the 2nd week of the US Open with no clothing sponsor, somebody really has to slap her team.
I mean, I COULD market this girl. And I can't sell ice to a Bedouin.
She needs to learn to smile ..

She smiles. While eating a small child.

by Suliso If you don't get even a clothing deal as #2-#3 US player and a GS finalist something must be wrong with you on the personal level or you totally don't care. Is Pegula having any sponsorship deals?

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:48 pm If you don't get even a clothing deal as #2-#3 US player and a GS finalist something must be wrong with you on the personal level or you totally don't care. Is Pegula having any sponsorship deals?

Pegula is fully clothed in Adidas. I don't know if she has any other sponsorships.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:28 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:10 am If Collins starts the 2nd week of the US Open with no clothing sponsor, somebody really has to slap her team.
I mean, I COULD market this girl. And I can't sell ice to a Bedouin.
I wonder if she even have an agent. Usually a player can get a short-term patch deal if they go deep in a tournament.

Before her USO final against Evert (1978, I think), Pam Shriver was approached by a clothing company to wear their product. A one match deal was proposed. It was not an insignificant amount.
Shriver declined because she was still mulling her amateur status, but she obviously was fully signed after the match, when she turned pro.

by ti-amie

There are 60 replies between Roddick's first tweet and the response.

by dryrunguy I kinda think you shouldn't be allowed to verbally assault Fergus Murphy and other chair umpires simply because they won't roll over, worship you, and take your crap simply because you're the #1 American and frustrated by the fact you can no longer compete at the highest level.

by ti-amie

dryrunguy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:57 pm I kinda think you shouldn't be allowed to verbally assault Fergus Murphy and other chair umpires simply because they won't roll over, worship you, and take your crap simply because you're the #1 American and frustrated by the fact you can no longer compete at the highest level.

by ponchi101

dryrunguy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:57 pm I kinda think you shouldn't be allowed to verbally assault Fergus Murphy and other chair umpires simply because they won't roll over, worship you, and take your crap simply because you're the #1 American and frustrated by the fact you can no longer compete at the highest level.

You lost me there. Who did this? Is this in relation to Andy's post?
About Andy. Why even bother with something nobody is bothered about? It is not as if servers are dominating the game.
And talk about adding more DF's. Just what the crowd wants to see.

by ti-amie It's one of the topics US tennis obsesses about for no apparent reason Ponchi. I've heard people voice the sentiment before. It's kind of like US announcers were all talking about "the shape of the ball" when referring to the height of the ball when it goes over the net. No one outside of the US really cares or uses that phrase.

by dryrunguy

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:01 pm
dryrunguy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:57 pm I kinda think you shouldn't be allowed to verbally assault Fergus Murphy and other chair umpires simply because they won't roll over, worship you, and take your crap simply because you're the #1 American and frustrated by the fact you can no longer compete at the highest level.
You lost me there. Who did this? Is this in relation to Andy's post?
About Andy. Why even bother with something nobody is bothered about? It is not as if servers are dominating the game.
And talk about adding more DF's. Just what the crowd wants to see.

Sorry. I thought Andy's tumultuous relationship with Fergus Murphy (and others) was pretty well documented--especially later in his career.

I like Andy. But I didn't like him late in his career. Of course, it doesn't seem like such a big deal now because, since then, we've inherited... Nick.

by ponchi101 Ah, ok. I thought you were talking about something recent.
Yes, I remember Andy's petulance towards some chair umpires. One of the reasons he never became a heavy favorite to me.

by Owendonovan

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:48 pm If you don't get even a clothing deal as #2-#3 US player and a GS finalist something must be wrong with you on the personal level or you totally don't care. Is Pegula having any sponsorship deals?

I'm not sure Pegula needs or seeks sponsorship, her family is worth $billions.

by Suliso

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:13 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:48 pm If you don't get even a clothing deal as #2-#3 US player and a GS finalist something must be wrong with you on the personal level or you totally don't care. Is Pegula having any sponsorship deals?
I'm not sure Pegula needs or seeks sponsorship, her family is worth $billions.

That's exactly the point I was making. In her case if she doesn't it means she's avoiding them for the reason you state. No personality issues I can see.

by ponchi101 Pegula's family is worth Billions but she has stated that she received no financial help from them. She is making it on her own.
And she has the usual sponsors: Adidas, Yonex, something called Total 24 (have no idea) and her own company. With Collins, I can see that on court she may come up as super intense, but when you see her in her interviews, she seems very relaxed and nice. Ergo, a mystery to me.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:23 pm Pegula's family is worth Billions but she has stated that she received no financial help from them. She is making it on her own.
And she has the usual sponsors: Adidas, Yonex, something called Total 24 (have no idea) and her own company. With Collins, I can see that on court she may come up as super intense, but when you see her in her interviews, she seems very relaxed and nice. Ergo, a mystery to me.

Yeah, I don't think we can assume Collins is turning off sponsors with her personality. Plus, she has a lot of fans. I'm a fan and I'd pay attention to what she wears. It could be that she hasn't liked her offers so far - maybe she values herself more highly than the offers she's getting. Maybe it hasn't been a priority with all her health issues. I also wonder if she has an agent.

by Owendonovan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:23 pm Pegula's family is worth Billions but she has stated that she received no financial help from them. She is making it on her own.
And she has the usual sponsors: Adidas, Yonex, something called Total 24 (have no idea) and her own company. With Collins, I can see that on court she may come up as super intense, but when you see her in her interviews, she seems very relaxed and nice. Ergo, a mystery to me.

Coming from parents who are billionaires, Pegula likely got whatever she wanted/needed to become the player she is today. She makes her own money on tour, but she had advantages.

by meganfernandez

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:41 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:23 pm Pegula's family is worth Billions but she has stated that she received no financial help from them. She is making it on her own.
And she has the usual sponsors: Adidas, Yonex, something called Total 24 (have no idea) and her own company. With Collins, I can see that on court she may come up as super intense, but when you see her in her interviews, she seems very relaxed and nice. Ergo, a mystery to me.
Coming from parents who are billionaires, Pegula likely got whatever she wanted/needed to become the player she is today. She makes her own money on tour, but she had advantages.

Of course. There's no doubt she benefitted from coming from family money, having connections, etc. And the comfort of a safety net lets you make all the best decisions, free of financial pressure. Either they or the USTA had to support her while she was coming up and not making any prize money. Everyone needs help when they're climbing the WTA rankings. But I think she became a Top 10 player because she put in the work and has the talent. You don't need a billion dollars to enjoy the advantages of money. Plenty of less-rich rich kids have tried and few make it. Eventually you need the drive, work ethic, talent and a brain to make it all the way to the top in sports.

Luisa Stefani told me last year that she needed to stick to doubles because that's where she was making her money, and she wanted to alleviate the financial burden on her parents. She wanted to try singles, but that meant taking a big pay cut. She can get into big events playing doubles but not singles, so she has to choose. Let's say she just played the big events in doubles and spent the rest of the year playing ITF singles. It would be pretty hard to keep a top doubles partner. You'd have to bounce around a lot.

by Suliso Lots of advantages for someone like Pegula, but also one notable disadvantage. How do you find motivation if you could live in luxury by doing nothing much? Father's money could buy lots of things, but not drive and motivation.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:30 pm Lots of advantages for someone like Pegula, but also one notable disadvantage. How do you find motivation if you could live in luxury by doing nothing much? Father's money could buy lots of things, but not drive and motivation.

Very true. Some combination her nature, her discipline, and good parenting.

by ponchi101 I would say that it takes away any pondering about her playing because of the money. Camila Giorgi she is not.

by ti-amie

Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:30 pm Lots of advantages for someone like Pegula, but also one notable disadvantage. How do you find motivation if you could live in luxury by doing nothing much? Father's money could buy lots of things, but not drive and motivation.

This. It's why, while I'm not a stan, appreciate the way she has staked out a place for herself pretty much on her own desire to have her own. She could do like Emma Navarro and have daddy buy a tournament so she can get a WC into it and call herself a pro tennis player but she's out there in the hot sun grinding away and improving her game. I sure David Witt didn't come cheap either.

I also think her mother didn't have it easy coming up and it's possible she taught her daughter the wisdom of having her own.

by ti-amie

by Owendonovan Grateful "Shape of the ball" is no longer used like it used to be.

by ashkor87 Roddick did have a good point about something else recently...that servers should not be allowed to stop the motion and catch the ball when they have a bad toss..the toss is part of the serve, when you have started it, you have started it.

by Owendonovan

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:10 am Roddick did have a good point about something else recently...that servers should not be allowed to stop the motion and catch the ball when they have a bad toss..the toss is part of the serve, when you have started it, you have started it.

Its a bit like a balk in baseball.

by skatingfan I like the rule the way it is.

by ponchi101 Servers have already lost any advantage over the receivers. Adding 5, 6 double faults to some players' games would not be good for the sport.

by Owendonovan I'm not endorsing any change, just articulating how some might see it. Although, it might be fun to see how Kyrgios reacts when he misses one.

by ponchi101 He is pretty accurate with his serve. I can't recall him catching one errand one.
Patrick Rafter would have suffered tremendously.

by Deuce The simple - and fair - solution would be to put a limit on the number of service tosses one is permitted to catch (or not hit). Like 3 per game. Or 10 per set.

An added bonus to this is that counting the number would actually give the chair umpires something to do, other than to press the button starting the serve clock

.

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:48 am The simple - and fair - solution would be to put a limit on the number of service tosses one is permitted to catch (or not hit). Like 3 per game. Or 10 per set.

An added bonus to this is that counting the number would actually give the chair umpires something to do, other than to press the button starting the serve clock .

Yeah I"m not opposed to it, if it's a problem. Definitely need a freebie or two per set. I wish amateurs had some limit. A couple opponents this summer drove me insane catching at least every other toss... for three sets... wore me out resetting for the return. It was out of control.

by ashkor87 I would want the second serve eliminated entirely...in which sport do you get 2 chances just to get the ball into play,?

by ponchi101 Padel. Which is a variation of this one.
Baseball has fouls. You swing, not quite hit, you get a foul, not a strike (after the first two).
Basketball. When throwing free throws, you don't throw one free throw for two points, you throw two, one for one point each.
Table tennis. You get two serves too.
All jump competitions allow for several fouls before you are eliminated.

I would like to see one tournament played with only one serve. When people would see how many times you would be broken, I can guarantee everybody going back to two serves.
And: I need three.

by Suliso Is getting broken a lot bad? With only one serve smaller players would gain an advantage.

by ponchi101 As one of the objectives of the game is NOT to be broken, making breaks of serve way easier would seem to go against that.
Even the very best players only win about 50-55% of their 2nd serves. So, you could say that you would be broken about every other service game. Of course, it would work both ways, so it would still be even.
Remember also that, by definition, the serve is a SHORT BALL; after all, it lands inside the service box. Having only one serve would mean that serving would be a defensive position.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:36 pm Padel. Which is a variation of this one.
Baseball has fouls. You swing, not quite hit, you get a foul, not a strike (after the first two).
Basketball. When throwing free throws, you don't throw one free throw for two points, you throw two, one for one point each.
Table tennis. You get two serves too.
All jump competitions allow for several fouls before you are eliminated.

I would like to see one tournament played with only one serve. When people would see how many times you would be broken, I can guarantee everybody going back to two serves.
And: I need three.

Foul in baseball is not comparable..if a pitcher got two shots at every pitch, that would be..
Table tennis, no, they get 2 serves for 2 points, not per point
Jump competitions are not comparable either, I don't think.
Basketball, you get 2 throws for 2 points, not for every point.

by Suliso

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:04 pm As one of the objectives of the game is NOT to be broken, making breaks of serve way easier would seem to go against that.

Said who? The objective of the game is to win points by hitting the ball in on the opponents side on the court in such a way that he/she can't return it. Nowhere does it say that a win achieved by mostly breaking is less valid.

Of course it would be a very DIFFERENT game to what we're seeing now. If I had huge amounts of money I'd convince two or more highly ranked pros to try it out in an exho (played seriously) to see how it works out. I'm surprised no one has done so already.

by ponchi101 Says everybody. You know of any player that goes out there with the objective of BEING BROKEN? That is one of your goals.
I said ONE of the objectives. You could boil it all the way down to a simple rule: the person that wins the last point, wins. Of course, how you get to that last point involves a lot playing.
Phillip Chatrier floated the idea in the 1980's-90's, when it seemed like servers were going to rule the sport with nothing but big serves. It was not "not welcomed", it was totally rejected. Pat Cash was almost angry, saying "that lets me know how he used to play".
Sure, such an exo would be very interesting. But it would have to be a tournament; a sample of one match would tell us nothing.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 I like Kyrgios but I can't stand his destroying his own rackets...the instruments of your game, your livelihood..how can you not respect them,? I was brought up to almost worship them, let alone respect them! Very disappointing..

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:55 pm I like Kyrgios but I can't stand his destroying his own rackets...the instruments of your game, your livelihood..how can you not respect them,? I was brought up to almost worship them, let alone respect them! Very disappointing..

Remember how old we are? My dad made it clear: you break your racquets, you buy your next one. Which, for a 10 yo, was impossible.
But those were old times.
I had never thought of this issue through that lens. It is interesting.

by Deuce

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:55 pm I like Kyrgios but I can't stand his destroying his own rackets...the instruments of your game, your livelihood..how can you not respect them,? I was brought up to almost worship them, let alone respect them! Very disappointing..

You (or your parents) had to pay for your racquets, and your supply was likely limited.
Kyrgios gets paid to use his racquets, and has an unlimited supply of them.
That's a huge difference in perspective on an inanimate object.

Also, certain personalities need to release the frustration - and the racquet is the most convenient object with which to do that (especially when you have a free, unlimited supply of them). Using the racquet to release the frustration is practical in that it's already in your hands... it is also generally safe (much safer than punching something)...
So, really, I completely understand Kyrgios (and any other pro player) smashing their racquets. It provides a tremendous and very efficient release of frustration, and they have a free, unlimited supply.

by ashkor87 It is not about money...I can afford to buy a new racket every day if I want to, but I still put the racket down gently and carefully when I finish playing ..it is the value of respect for your tools..in our culture, we even have a day when we place flowers on the tools of our trade and pray..

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:23 pm Pegula's family is worth Billions but she has stated that she received no financial help from them. She is making it on her own.

This is hilarious. She might be living off her own money, but it's a lie of epic proportion to say she doesn't get any financial help from her family. I mean, I don't know the going rate for using your father's NFL and NHL teams fitness and physio teams to get to your level of success after struggling mightily with your pro career and staying healthy, but I'm thinking it's a figure north of a million. Also, not something even most rich people can replicate so damn near priceless. I have said this many times on here but people like this Fracking Princess too much to listen. It ain't about David Witt.

by JazzNU As for Danielle. If she doesn't have a clothing sponsor by January, you can assume that it is definitely by choice. She's now with IMG, they can secure her a clothing sponsor if she wants one with her results. She's signed with Waterdrop since she signed with IMG and has been displaying their name prominently since on her no-name kits. She's also done some stuff for Babolat since signing with them. So she's picking up sponsorships since signing with IMG, the lack of a clothing sponsor is going to be by choice at this point. But I'd wait til January to be more certain that she's not waiting to make a decision, that's the time when most of the clothing companies extend, offer, and end many of their contracts.

by Deuce Why does the 25 second clock apply only to the server?
Or, perhaps the question is better phrased as 'Why does the server get 25 seconds to recover from a long point, but the same courtesy doesn't apply to the receiver?'

I think this 'Must play at the pace of the server' should be thrown in the garbage. It is a vague 'rule' at best, very inconsistently applied...
It should be 25 seconds between points, and either player can use that that entire 25 seconds. Because it's unfair otherwise.

(I actually think it should be 30 seconds between points, as the 25 second rule was brought in BEFORE the pandemic, and when the ball kids were taking the towels to the players... Now that the players must go to get their towels themselves in the far corners of the court, an extra 5 seconds should be granted.)

by ponchi101

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:27 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:23 pm Pegula's family is worth Billions but she has stated that she received no financial help from them. She is making it on her own.

This is hilarious. She might be living off her own money, but it's a lie of epic proportion to say she doesn't get any financial help from her family. I mean, I don't know the going rate for using your father's NFL and NHL teams fitness and physio teams to get to your level of success after struggling mightily with your pro career and staying healthy, but I'm thinking it's a figure north of a million. Also, not something even most rich people can replicate so damn near priceless. I have said this many times on here but people like this Fracking Princess too much to listen. It ain't about David Witt.

Glad that my stupid opinions frequently result in you laughing.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:51 am
Glad that my stupid opinions frequently result in you laughing.

Opinion? Aren't you saying that's something she said or heard about her? I have no trouble believing she said it, I just know it's inaccurate.

She's like's to pretend way too often that her specific success can be had by anyone. She's shot herself in the foot in ways that make no sense because of it.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:16 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:51 am
Glad that my stupid opinions frequently result in you laughing.
Opinion? Aren't you saying that's something she said or heard about her? I have no trouble believing she said it, I just know it's inaccurate.

She's like's to pretend way too often that her specific success can be had by anyone. She's shot herself in the foot in ways that make no sense because of it.

I should have been more specific, and not type so fast. What she has said is that she DOES NOT RECEIVE any help from her parents. She is not flying on the corporate jet.
I have no idea how much they helped her growing up, but of course she had it all. But now, she is flying solo.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:44 am
I should have been more specific, and not type so fast. What she has said is that she DOES NOT RECEIVE any help from her parents. She is not flying on the corporate jet.
I have no idea how much they helped her growing up, but of course she had it all. But now, she is flying solo.

That's my point, no she's not, not really. She's at the fitness level and past her history of repeated injury that held her back for years thanks to training with employees of her parent's teams. So not talking about advantages when she was growing up, which she definitely had, I'm talking about more recent.

by Deuce Some type of visual indication of whether a shot is in or out needs to be established...
There are many times when, on a final shot close to the line, no-one knows what the call is - because the crowd noise drowns out the automatic audible call. With the automatic line calling system, there is no linesperson to extend his/her arm as a visual indicator.
In these cases, the crowd has no idea what the call is, the TV announcers have no idea what the call is, and the TV audience have no idea what the call is - until several seconds after the shot, when the score is adjusted. Even the players don't know what the call is under these conditions.

It would be easy to fix, I believe - just rig 'hawkeye live' up to the electronic boards behind each baseline, and have it flash something red (a red line, or red dot, etc.) when the shot is 'out', and green when the shot is in. Flash these colours on both electronic screens behind the baseline so that both players - and most of the crowd - can see it. TV viewers would also be able to see it.

To me, this is a 'no brainer', and needs to be done as soon as possible. Either that, or bring back the linespeople with their extended arms.

by ti-amie

Life comes at you fast.

by ponchi101 A bit early for that. There are enough good players out there to challenge him. Sinner came close to doing it, Zverev took him at RG.
It will be a bit more competitive.
I hope.

by ti-amie I'll just drop this here...

by ponchi101 At the USO, it does seem so.
On the WTA, since Serena's last win (2014) there have been 8 new winners in the last 9 years (Naomi won 2).

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:07 am At the USO, it does seem so.
On the WTA, since Serena's last win (2014) there have been 8 new winners in the last 9 years (Naomi won 2).

7 new winners in 8 years.

It's an interesting list.
Pennetta (retired)
Kerber (69 - maternity leave, may be retired)
Stephens (50)
Osaka (48)
Andreescu (56)
Raducanu (83)
Swiatek (1)

by ti-amie

by 3mlm

skatingfan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:21 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:07 am At the USO, it does seem so.
On the WTA, since Serena's last win (2014) there have been 8 new winners in the last 9 years (Naomi won 2).
7 new winners in 8 years.

It's an interesting list.
Pennetta (retired)
Kerber (69 - maternity leave, may be retired)
Stephens (50)
Osaka (48)
Andreescu (56)
Raducanu (83)
Swiatek (1)

Also, since Serena's last win:

French Open: 6 new winners in 7 years

Muguruzu (12)
Ostapenko (15)
Halep (9)
Barty (retired)
Swiatek (1) twice
Krejcikova (26)

Wimbledon: 5 new winners in 5 years

Muguruzu (12)
Kerber (69)
Halep (9)
Barty (retired)
Rybakina (25)

Australia Open: 4 new winners in 5 years

Wozniacki (retired)
Osaka (48) twice
Kenin (312)
Barty (retired)

by ashkor87 Nice to see Taylor Townsend doing well .the USTA has treated her shabbily, telling her to get fit..fact is, everyone's body is different and possibly Taylor's doesn't conform to the conventional design .a bit of racism, a bit of sexism and lots of ignorance!

by ashkor87 Comparing across eras is always difficult, and maybe not somethng we should even do but there are some interesting clues - there are 'bridge' players, who span more than one generation - who can be used as a reference/benchmark..
Connors, Agassi, Hingis come most readily to mind - they lasted a long time and played at a very high level..the great performance Agassi put up against Federer when he was 34 years old, playing his last major final, certainly makes me feel Sampras was better than we (at least I) think he was, Agassi beat Connors both times they met, at the USO.. .. and so on..Hingis had a 3-7 record against Graf but almost even against Serena..makes me wonder if Graf, and, by extension, Navratilova, may not have been better than we think..it is harder to say about Seles because she had that horrible stabbing that derailed her..
of course, playing style and the relative point in their careers, matters a lot. still..

there used to be a series (really an exhibition) at Las Vegas where I have seen Laver (well past retirement age) nearly beat Borg, and Roche defeat Stockton easily.. the oldies were quite good, really!

among current players, Djokovic may well turn out to be the reference, the benchmark.. he will have played across several genrations by the time he is done.

by ponchi101 I agree with the exception of Hingis. She retired too young (the first time) and her game became obsolete very quickly, because she could not muster enough power to play against the Williams (a change of racquet may have helped, as Yonexes are famous for their control but also for the lack of power).
About Navs: I can't think of her being better than what I think because, to me, she is the best technical player in history. Every stroke was mechanically perfect. So, no way to go further up when you stand at the peak of Everest.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:47 am

ATP Player of the Year, right? Rafa has a case with 2 Slams, but this is a better resume. And Carlos coudl win the ATP Finals. Nadal probably won't play them, and right now Djokovic is #15 in the race.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Ok. Will try that tomorrow. And maybe that is Andrei getting a bit more variety.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:02 pm Ok. Will try that tomorrow. And maybe that is Andrei getting a bit more variety.

I hope so.

by skatingfan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:10 pm ATP Player of the Year, right? Rafa has a case with 2 Slams, but this is a better resume. And Carlos coudl win the ATP Finals. Nadal probably won't play them, and right now Djokovic is #15 in the race.

Djokovic will qualify for the final by virtue of winning Wimbledon as long as he ends the year in the top 20 in the race.

by ponchi101 About Andrei. He is so predictable, right now. He will go cross court with his FH 90% of the time.
But: this drill starts with a cross BH. Which is the shot he does not hit. He runs around it, ending a bit boxed in that corner. From there, somebody with a decent slice BH will go down the line.
I agree that the modern game is all about running around your FH, but he does it to an extreme. Look at Novak: he does it, but not to the extent that his court position becomes a liability.

by ponchi101

skatingfan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:44 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:10 pm ATP Player of the Year, right? Rafa has a case with 2 Slams, but this is a better resume. And Carlos coudl win the ATP Finals. Nadal probably won't play them, and right now Djokovic is #15 in the race.
Djokovic will qualify for the final by virtue of winning Wimbledon as long as he ends the year in the top 20 in the race.

If Wimby gave no points, will it still count? A technicality (I would allow him in) but the tour is so unpredictable in that aspect.

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:48 am If Wimby gave no points, will it still count? A technicality (I would allow him in) but the tour is so unpredictable in that aspect.

There's no indication that Wimbledon 2022 was stripped of the title Grand Slam, which according to the rules would make Djokovic eligible assuming he remains top 20. The live ranking site that we reference here frequently has a checkmark beside his name right now.

https://live-tennis.eu/en/atp-race

https://www.atptour.com/-/media/files/r ... -19aug.pdf

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:07 pm I agree with the exception of Hingis. She retired too young (the first time) and her game became obsolete very quickly, because she could not muster enough power to play against the Williams (a change of racquet may have helped, as Yonexes are famous for their control but also for the lack of power).
About Navs: I can't think of her being better than what I think because, to me, she is the best technical player in history. Every stroke was mechanically perfect. So, no way to go further up when you stand at the peak of Everest.

I was using Hingis as a benchmark...since she has spanned several generations....

by ashkor87 Anyone know what the Fort Worth courts are like? I used to live in the DFW area a lifetime ago, never heard of any courts there..? Big stadium for tennis, I mean...

by skatingfan

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:11 am Anyone know what the Fort Worth courts are like? I used to live in the DFW area a lifetime ago, never heard of any courts there..? Big stadium for tennis, I mean...

I'm not sure that this arena has ever hosted tennis before - it was only built about 15 years ago.

by ti-amie The person who started this thread deleted their account. I've tried to reconstruct it below.

by Deuce Thanks for the reminder about why I don't use twitter (or other 'social media').
The adolescent level arguments, the juvenile spelling...
No thanks.

by ponchi101 The first tweet is missing. Can't make out the entire idea without it.
But the two last tweets are fairly... dumb?

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:20 pm The first tweet is missing. Can't make out the entire idea without it.
But the two last tweets are fairly... dumb?

Nothing makes sense without the first two Tweets. I hate when that happens. Let me see if someone screenshot it.

It looks like the entire account was deleted.

by ti-amie Okay this is the tweet that started the mess. Someone commented that women players have to work so much harder to get such recognition comparing what Iga has achieved with what Carlitos has achieved. Then came the comment about Djokovic not playing two Slams. I think "smithy" misunderstood what was being said.

The comments about Barty and Iga came after those comments.

by Deuce It's only very mildly comical when someone who makes 5 spelling errors in one sentence tells someone else that they 'sound stupid'.
Especially when those spelling errors are mostly deliberate.

The only question is: Has 'social media' made people significantly more stupid, or has it merely revealed people's innate and significant stupidity?

by ashkor87 Interesting comment by Federer when he was asked about Alcaraz...'the best movers are the best players'....

by ponchi101 Well, that's what Sampras said about Roger. When asked about Roger's strokes, and why he was so good because of them, he said: "That's not it. It is not the strokes, it's his movement".
(Paraphrase).

by ashkor87 I have never seen anyone move as well as Alcaraz..maybe Laver in his prime..

by Fastbackss

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:45 pm It's only very mildly comical when someone who makes 5 spelling errors in one sentence tells someone else that they 'sound stupid'.
Especially when those spelling errors are mostly deliberate.

The only question is: Has 'social media' made people significantly more stupid, or has it merely revealed people's innate and significant stupidity?

I won't comment on the latter, however I will point out one of my favorite retorts.

Bomani Jones (typically on ESPN in the states) receives a fair amount of vitriol when he expresses an opinion.
He oft "claps back" by simply writing "too*" because nearly every time the author of said tweet uses the incorrect form of to/too

by Fastbackss

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:27 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:23 pm Pegula's family is worth Billions but she has stated that she received no financial help from them. She is making it on her own.

This is hilarious. She might be living off her own money, but it's a lie of epic proportion to say she doesn't get any financial help from her family. I mean, I don't know the going rate for using your father's NFL and NHL teams fitness and physio teams to get to your level of success after struggling mightily with your pro career and staying healthy, but I'm thinking it's a figure north of a million. Also, not something even most rich people can replicate so damn near priceless. I have said this many times on here but people like this Fracking Princess too much to listen. It ain't about David Witt.

I heard a podcast with Andy Roddick about this topic (in general not about Pegula specifically). He (as always) had some poignant thoughts on it. Here were a couple:

- coming from means takes some of the "worry" and allows for focus. There are plenty of examples of relatively indigent players making it, but the means provides ancillary support that gives a larger safety net. But he pushed back on the notion that should be discredited if coming from significant means.
- ultimately it's the "fight" of the player, regardless of means. He or she has to be singularly focused to push through, like the pain, deal with the solitude, etc.
- he also opined further on how many with means get burned out because they are pushed so hard by the parent and it has to be innate self-drive. They have to want it as well.

by ti-amie

Amanda@RowdyBug Replying to @josemorgado
So Moutet is in green and Andreev in white?

Heidiction @heidiction
Replying to
@RowdyBug and @josemorgado
Yes

by ponchi101 Because he has turned out to be a low-ranked player, Moutet has fallen off the radar of "Bad Boys". But he has had several instances in which his conduct on court is less than palatable.

by JazzNU

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:23 am
I heard a podcast with Andy Roddick about this topic (in general not about Pegula specifically). He (as always) had some poignant thoughts on it. Here were a couple:

- coming from means takes some of the "worry" and allows for focus. There are plenty of examples of relatively indigent players making it, but the means provides ancillary support that gives a larger safety net. But he pushed back on the notion that should be discredited if coming from significant means.
- ultimately it's the "fight" of the player, regardless of means. He or she has to be singularly focused to push through, like the pain, deal with the solitude, etc.
- he also opined further on how many with means get burned out because they are pushed so hard by the parent and it has to be innate self-drive. They have to want it as well.

I personally find most defenses of Pegula's "means" to be offbase when judging what I'm talking about. Ernest Gulbis and Emma Navarro come from similar means as Pegula. Neither of their parents can provide them access to fitness and physio staffs of a professional sports team. Unless and until they do, I find comparisons of those with means to be insufficient to what Jessie has taken advantage of.

Something which, from what I can tell, might I add, she doesn't appear to talk about much anymore because I'm guessing it doesn't go over that well, because it hardly seems fair. It's like trying to find MAGA-esque comments and likes from certain tennis players, it's largely been scrubbed because it doesn't help their profile. But I remember her talking about it, remember the commentators on her matches on the Tennis Channel mentioning it more than once. She got out of her unending cycle of injuries that hampered her career for years and to her current health and fitness level by using the fitness and physio staffs of her parents' teams. Although I seem to remember it being the Sabres' staff she utilized more than the Bills.

I have been plenty vocal about the Fracking Princess and the real source of her family's money. I still can't stand her family and their team ownership is basically sportswashing. But I'm truly just stating a fact here that she once talked about. Having access to a crap ton of money and owning major league sports teams in the US and having access to their staff and facilities are truly apples and orange comparisons to me. I have personally seen what college and pro football teams' facilities consist of and who they have on their staffs. My mind is not going to be changed that all things being equal, this is all about "fight."

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:22 pm

Amanda@RowdyBug Replying to @josemorgado
So Moutet is in green and Andreev in white?

Heidiction @heidiction
Replying to
@RowdyBug and @josemorgado
Yes

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:30 pm Because he has turned out to be a low-ranked player, Moutet has fallen off the radar of "Bad Boys". But he has had several instances in which his conduct on court is less than palatable.

Yes, Moutet is an ornery character... quite similar to Fognini.
Love them or hate them, I'm glad they're in the game - to break up the monotony of homogenized players who all 'behave well'.
We need the yin and yang... we need contrast in life.

by Fastbackss There's a guy in one of my leagues who is a notorious "opportune" line-caller.

He consistently calls balls out (that are definitively in or close) - even ones on the other side of the court from him (we are playing doubles).

He and I have had some verbal altercations, the most recent of which was last season when I lost my mind as he called a double bounce on me on a ball that I easily got to.

At the start of this season he sought me out to see if "we were going to have a problem again."

That is the backstory to understand why I sent this clip to some in the league with a caption saying "when xXxX is calling lines"

by JazzNU

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:02 am There's a guy in one of my leagues who is a notorious "opportune" line-caller.

He consistently calls balls out (that are definitively in or close) - even ones on the other side of the court from him (we are playing doubles).

He and I have had some verbal altercations, the most recent of which was last season when I lost my mind as he called a double bounce on me on a ball that I easily got to.

At the start of this season he sought me out to see if "we were going to have a problem again."

That is the backstory to understand why I sent this clip to some in the league with a caption saying "when xXxX is calling lines"

Why are you still playing against him? Feels like he should've been bounced from the league some time ago.

I would've told him tf off if he had the nerve to seek me out at the beginning of the season like I'm the problem.

by ponchi101 Fairly good description of why I stopped playing tournaments. Some people are just like that, and I have enough stories about incidents that are similar. Fastest way to ruin a tennis day.

by Deuce Yes, there are people in tennis who give themselves the benefit of any ball that's close to the line, rather than doing the proper thing and giving the opponent the benefit of any close ball.

But you guys ain't seen nothin' in terms of bad line calls until you play pickleball!

When I began playing pickleball 3 years ago, I could not believe the percentage of horrible line calls. It's like anything within 3 inches of the line - not 3 millimetres or 3 centimetres, but 3 INCHES - is called out.
Now, a pickleball ball doesn't compress like a tennis ball does when it bounces - so, where a tennis ball will 'spread out' a bit when hitting the court, a pickleball ball doesn't. So sometimes it is difficult to call a ball close to the line because the surface of the ball could hit the ground outside of the line while the part of the ball that is not in contact with the ground is over the line.

To lessen the confusion about this, pickleball changed the rule last year - the rule now states that the player must see space between the ball and the line in order to call the ball out. But it has changed nothing. I still very regularly see balls that are clearly inside the line being called out in pickleball. The difference in this aspect between tennis players and pickleball players is huge. Whereas I'd say maybe 10% of tennis players will give themselves the benefit of any ball hitting close to a line, I'd say that at least 60% of pickleball players do this.

As well, another difference between the etiquette of tennis vs. the etiquette of pickleball, is on net cords... As we all know, when we win a point on a net cord in tennis, it is proper to apologize, because we got lucky. In pickleball, however, a net cord winner is celebrated just like any outright great shot winner.
You can always tell who the tennis players are in pickleball, as we're the only ones who apologize on net cord winners!

by ashkor87 I once had a doubles partner like that..I had to intervene repeatedly to stop him cheating...he called the ball out at matchpoint, hit by our opponents..made such a scene when I called it in..the entire stands emptied to watch us fight! But I stood by my call, which cost us the match. The crowd supported me so he had to keep quiet in the end..never played with him as partner again..

by Fastbackss

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:02 am I once had a doubles partner like that..I had to intervene repeatedly to stop him cheating...he called the ball out at matchpoint, hit by our opponents..made such a scene when I called it in..the entire stands emptied to watch us fight! But I stood by my call, which cost us the match. The crowd supported me so he had to keep quiet in the end..never played with him as partner again..

I was in a USTA league of a new (older) age bracket for the first time. The only team "near" me was an hour away but I joined. One of my first partners was like this. He called multiple in balls out. The other team was grumbling. Finally a serve to him on a critical point was clearly in and he called it out. I overruled him. He started yelling at me about "what are you doing" and I said "I can't continue to let you call lines like this." Needless to say I didn't get many more matches (and I said I wouldn't play with him again). Anecdote (amusing to me anyway ) - I looked him up later as the name was familiar - he was a rather high up executive.

Jazz - yeah - other people are more willing to put up with his crap. It's a "vintage" league. Been around for 35 years and he is one of the 10 or so that have been there over 20 of the years- so they aren't willing to boot him. I know they have talked to him (next they could talk about his foot faults as well, but whatever).

And for what it's worth when he asked if we'd have a problem I replied "depends on how you call the lines.". Mysteriously we don't get picked to play on the same court very often

by ponchi101 I have said, many times, that if you really want to know a person, get him on a tennis court. This sport will undress you totally. Watch them play, and especially how they call lines. It will tell you what kind of person they really are.

by Deuce I received this (below) via E mail just a couple of days ago from a pickleball association.
They are trying to change the unfortunate culture of line calling in pickleball - the points below are good and make sense (obviously taken from tennis)... but, having seen no change at all in the 4 years I've played, it would not surprise me if this problem takes a generation to solve.
The only point I disagree with is the one mentioning "Rule 6.D.5" that you should not question your opponent's call. If your opponent is not following the points of decency and etiquette mentioned below, of course they should be questioned!

If you are not absolutely positive that the ball is OUT… it is to be called IN.

If you think the ball is out… it is IN (Thinking something is not definitive - does not demonstrate certainty).

If you cannot immediately call the ball out… it is to be called IN.

If you see the ball land, but are not sure if it touched the line or not… it is to be called IN.

The team at whose end the ball hits has the responsibility for making the line call with the code of ethics in mind. I.e., “Players must strive for accuracy and operate under the principle that all questionable calls must be resolved in favour of the opposition.”

A Player cannot claim a replay because the ball was not seen or there was uncertainty.

If a player makes an initial line call, and then asks the opponents their opinion and they have clearly seen the ball “IN” or “OUT”, that call will stand. If they are unable to make a definitive call, the original line call stands.

Rule 6.D.5 clearly states that, “A player should not question an opponents call!” Calls on the opponents end of the court are their responsibility, and to question it is poor etiquette.

If at a tournament your opponents continually make poor Line Calls and there are no officials, you can approach the Tournament Director or the Officiating desk to request a Referee.

If you are in a position over the ball and looking down at it and the line, and there is an overlap where the ball hides a portion or all of the line below, this ball cannot be called out. Rationale – the Player cannot be certain that the ball has not made contact with the line… therefore it must be presumed “IN”.
The playing partner to the Player above may be in a better position to make the call if they are looking across the court or back toward the baseline. If this player can see the playing surface on the other side of the line, the ball can then be called “OUT” with a certainty that it did not make contact with the line.

Often the player’s head and eyes must move in the direction of the struck and landing ball. With this motion the eyes often cannot adjust quickly enough to see the true position of impact. The ball often appears to travel further than it does. This was found to be the case in a study of out calls made at Wimbledon, and why Line Judges are trained to have their head and eyes focused on the line prior to the ball arriving at the scene.

Other important aspects of Line Calling:

“OUT” calls should be promptly signalled by voice and/or hand signal. I.e., raising the hand in the air.
An “OUT” call made after the ball bounces is a Line Call. The ball is considered dead, and play shall stop.
If a Player, or their partner, calls a ball “OUT” prior to the ball bouncing, this is to be considered Player communication and NOT a Line Call, and play is to continue.
After completion of a rally, players may overrule a partner’s line call, an Officiating Team's line call, or an opponent’s “IN” call, to their own disadvantage.

by ponchi101 Good luck with that

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

Credit where credit is due.

by ponchi101 I guess this site has to side with our friends, and declare open season on Pickle-ballers

Blame, threat and clash: the war between pickleball and tennis players is escalating – on and off the court

I found it funny.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:47 pm I guess this site has to side with our friends, and declare open season on Pickle-ballers
Blame, threat and clash: the war between pickleball and tennis players is escalating – on and off the court

I found it funny.

Well... As a person who plays both, I will say that pickleball has no business being played on tennis courts. Fortunately, around here, we have dedicated courts for both - and so I've never seen any conflict.
I agree that some of the conflicts described in the article are pretty funny.

As for pickleball being a sport "primarily for the older population"... that's disputable. Yes, you'll see more retired people playing pickleball than playing tennis, per capita... but you're not going to see too many 65+ year old players playing at a high level.

As for pickleball being 'slow'... Yes, it is, overall, slower than today's tennis. But it's faster than the tennis of the 1980s and before (before the racquets grew larger).
And there are many points in higher level pickleball that require very quick reflexes. There are lots of touch and angles, as well, when played at a higher level.

"The ATP" in the video means 'Around The Post' - kind of ironic...

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 As a former champion of, everywhere, should be present the trophy to the winners of next year's slams? Hand it to Novak, Rafa, Novak and first time winner (USO)?

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 The eyes. Glued to that ball.

by ti-amie

I don't know why they are emphasizing FH winners either.

by Deuce They are all over the place with their set and match statistics.
Sometimes they don't show the unforced errors at all.
They used to show total points won by both players. Lately, they don't show that, either.
It's so random that it's like whoever is doing the stats for a particular match just does whatever he/she feels like doing. There are no criteria.

by ponchi101 It is as if tennis can't be analyzed. These stats are useless.
In every other sport, pretty soon all coaches will be replaced by an AI bot. In tennis, players and coaches will be given crystal balls, tarot cards and a Ouija board.

by Deuce I like to see the total points won. That helps to see which player won the important points.
If, for example, the player who lost the match won more total points, one can logically conclude that the winner of the match won more of the critical points.

by Deuce On the WTA telecast of the San Diego Final, Jill Craybas just made the excellent point that I've tried to make to people (with little success)...
As an airplane flew overhead (there is an airport near the tournament site), they talked about whether the planes are a distraction to the players...

Craybas said that the main problem with the planes flying low is that the sound of the planes drowns out the sound of the strings hitting the ball. She said that the sound of the the ball being struck "gives a lot of information about the shot" - how hard it's hit, what kind of spin, how much spin, etc. - and that the player not hitting the ball relies on this audible information.

I've tried to explain this to people, but many don't understand how important sound is.
This is why I don't like playing on courts that are near noise sources (like high vehicle traffic).
It's also why I hate watching tennis on TV with the sound off. As a spectator, as well, I want to hear the sound, as it relays a lot of important information.

by ti-amie

Deuce wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:43 pm On the WTA telecast of the San Diego Final, Jill Craybas just made the excellent point that I've tried to make to people (with little success)...
As an airplane flew overhead (there is an airport near the tournament site), they talked about whether the planes are a distraction to the players...

Craybas said that the main problem with the planes flying low is that the sound of the planes drowns out the sound of the strings hitting the ball. She said that the sound of the the ball being struck "gives a lot of information about the shot" - how hard it's hit, what kind of spin, how much spin, etc. - and that the player not hitting the ball relies on this audible information.

I've tried to explain this to people, but many don't understand how important sound is.
This is why I don't like playing on courts that are near noise sources (like high vehicle traffic).
It's also why I hate watching tennis on TV with the sound off. As a spectator, as well, I want to hear the sound, as it relays a lot of important information.

This is true but asking anyone to sit through a match commentary by Jmac, Carillo or Arias is asking a lot.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:21 am ...

This is true but asking anyone to sit through a match commentary by Jmac, Carillo or Arias is asking a lot.

Will trade you the three of them for Clerc...

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:21 am
Deuce wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:43 pm On the WTA telecast of the San Diego Final, Jill Craybas just made the excellent point that I've tried to make to people (with little success)...
As an airplane flew overhead (there is an airport near the tournament site), they talked about whether the planes are a distraction to the players...

Craybas said that the main problem with the planes flying low is that the sound of the planes drowns out the sound of the strings hitting the ball. She said that the sound of the the ball being struck "gives a lot of information about the shot" - how hard it's hit, what kind of spin, how much spin, etc. - and that the player not hitting the ball relies on this audible information.

I've tried to explain this to people, but many don't understand how important sound is.
This is why I don't like playing on courts that are near noise sources (like high vehicle traffic).
It's also why I hate watching tennis on TV with the sound off. As a spectator, as well, I want to hear the sound, as it relays a lot of important information.
This is true but asking anyone to sit through a match commentary by Jmac, Carillo or Arias is asking a lot.

Both McEnroes talk too much - because they love to hear themselves... and John talks far too much about himself. I still won't turn the sound off, though

.

I don't mind Arias... and I quite like Carillo.

by ti-amie If Carillo is working by herself she is sometimes tolerable to me. I remember a tournament earlier this year where there was a great commentary team for a WTA match. When Carillo came on any commentary based on what was going on during the match disappeared and all she gave was anecdotes about random stuff.

Arias just drives me up the wall.

by ti-amie Hindrance?

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:42 am Hindrance?

That's more than 'a little' unsportsmanlike. It's complete BS.
This is the kind of thing you see when two 7 year old kids are playing.
This should never be tolerated.

I can understand the chair umpire perhaps not seeing it as it happens. But if Goodall is commenting on it, it means that it has come to the attention of people in tennis. As such, someone definitely needs to talk to her NOW about this, and tell her that if she does it again, she will be punished.
I just wish that the rules would allow a more severe punishment than losing the point. After telling her not to do it again, I'd like the powers that be to be able to suspend her for a month if she does it again. Because this crap has NO place in the game.

by ponchi101 Total hindrance.
Point should have been Vekic's.

by mick1303 Anybody knows what happened with Charleston ATP challenger (2 weeks ago). The results are given only for half of R16. Why was it not finished?

by skatingfan

mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:34 pm Anybody knows what happened with Charleston ATP challenger (2 weeks ago). The results are given only for half of R16. Why was it not finished?

The rest of the tournament was cancelled because of hurricane Ian.

https://www.tennis.com/baseline/article ... ricane-ian

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:42 am Hindrance?

I think so. It's not the first time Iga has flailed her arms like this on defense. She doesn't need to do this to win matches, obviously. It must be a reflex she has learned. Terrible - wish is was called.

by ti-amie Ivanovic has been nominated for the HoF. We can argue about that.

From Wiki:

Grand Slam singles results
Australian Open F (2008)
French Open W (2008)
Wimbledon SF (2007)
US Open QF (2012)

Other tournaments
Tour Finals SF (2007)
Olympic Games 3R (2012)

by ponchi101 Sorry. Short memories. If that was a hindrance, Connors would have been defaulted from every match. His shoes never stopped squeaking.
Ana: 1 slam, one final, 25 minutes as world #1... I don't know if those are HOF credentials. But if she gets voted in, won't bother me either.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:35 pm Sorry. Short memories. If that was a hindrance, Connors would have been defaulted from every match. His shoes never stopped squeaking.
Ana: 1 slam, one final, 25 minutes as world #1... I don't know if those are HOF credentials. But if she gets voted in, won't bother me either.

Same. Didn't she have two other finals? Lost a French and an Australian, I think. Lost the French they year before she won it, I wanna say. Wertheim said he'd vote for her, citing some other X factors in addition to accomplishments. I have no qualms either way.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:56 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:35 pm Sorry. Short memories. If that was a hindrance, Connors would have been defaulted from every match. His shoes never stopped squeaking.
Ana: 1 slam, one final, 25 minutes as world #1... I don't know if those are HOF credentials. But if she gets voted in, won't bother me either.
Same. Didn't she have two other finals? Lost a French and an Australian, I think. Lost the French they year before she won it, I wanna say. Wertheim said he'd vote for her, citing some other X factors in addition to accomplishments. I have no qualms either way.

You are correct. Lost to Henin the 2007 final, won the 2008.

by JTContinental The HOF has been diluted over the past few years with their weak nominations, so why not Ivanovic, I guess

by ponchi101 And then, get ready in a few years. Roger, Rafa, Nole, Andy and Stan get in, for sure. And then, who? They did not let anybody else win anything. Maybe Delpo and CIlic, but Tsonga, Ferrer, Berdych, Nishikori, Raonic and Dimitrov are no-go's. They will be lean years.

by dryrunguy

JTContinental wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:17 pm The HOF has been diluted over the past few years with their weak nominations, so why not Ivanovic, I guess

Shoely, you can't be serious.

by ptmcmahon Don't call me Shirley.. or Shoely?

by JTContinental

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:33 pm And then, get ready in a few years. Roger, Rafa, Nole, Andy and Stan get in, for sure. And then, who? They did not let anybody else win anything. Maybe Delpo and CIlic, but Tsonga, Ferrer, Berdych, Nishikori, Raonic and Dimitrov are no-go's. They will be lean years.

Serena and Venus, the Bryans, maybe Sloane Stephens

by ponchi101 If you go by the women, you will see some more people. Kvitova, Mugu, Kerber, Barty, possibly Azarenka. Wozniacki will get in because of her long stay at #1, Halep will also be considered. It will not be as bleak as the ATP prospect.
Then you will have the years of 10 players with 1 slam. And time to reconsider again.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:57 pm If you go by the women, you will see some more people. Kvitova, Mugu, Kerber, Barty, possibly Azarenka. Wozniacki will get in because of her long stay at #1, Halep will also be considered. It will not be as bleak as the ATP prospect.
Then you will have the years of 10 players with 1 slam. And time to reconsider again.

The thing is, the HoF has a marketing element. It's a ceremony and they want to attract a good crowd. Maybe it's a fundraiser, too. So they need stars whenever they can get them. They need Ivanovic and Wozniacki and other big names for marketing purposes. They have to balance that with the integrity/mission of the HoF. Good point about their being a slew of women at some point. Yay, parity.

i'm all for considering personality and impact on the game in addition to wins and accomplishments, the subjective X-factors. Ivanovic was a star. Ivanisevic was a big, unique personality on tour, made several other finals, and still has a presence as a top player's coach, and evidently a good coach, since Cilic was also with him when he won the US Open.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Good message, and a surprising stat, more so since she has never won one.
Guess she has made a lot of semis.

by JazzNU

by ponchi101

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 A solid, hardworking pro. Would make a good coach.
Best of luck.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:30 pm

And still No. 7 in the world. Tells you how good the rest of her game is. I applaud her for dealing with the frustration. Hope she gets the serve under control.

by ponchi101 And when I look at her serving, all she needs to do is change her grips a little bit. Go for an eastern BH grip.
And call Navs. She will fix it.

by ptmcmahon 400 double faults "scored"

That's one way to spin it.

by ashkor87 I voted for Cara Black..great doubles player..doubles is also tennis!

by meganfernandez

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 2:48 am 400 double faults "scored" That's one way to spin it.

I didn't know if that was a troll or what. Kinda funny.

by Deuce Elizabeth Mandlik. Remember that name. She will be a top 30 player, at least.
You heard it here first.
She is 21 years old and is Hana Mandlikova's daughter (I have no idea where the 'ova' went - maybe it's because Elizabeth is American).

She is playing Leylah right now at a 125 level tournament in Tampico, Mexico. Mandlik was ahead by a break in the 1st set, but Leylah broke her back when she was serving for the set. Then Leylah won the tiebreak 10-8.
I was more impressed with Mandlik in that set than I was with Leylah. She has the tools - and the tennis genes, obviously... all that's missing is the experience at the WTA level.
She is currently ranked #124. It would not surprise me at all if she is a top 10 player in about 3 years.

by Deuce Leylah upped her level in the 2nd set, while Mandlik kind of fell apart for the first few games. Before long, it was 4-0 Leylah. But Mandlik came back to win the next 2 games, and had points to win a 3rd game in a row, but didn’t. The last game endured about 15 minutes, with Mandlik saving several match points before succumbing.

Total points were 82 to 75 - a difference of 7 points. Leylah had 5 aces to Mandlik’s zero, and Leylah had only 1 double fault to Mandlik’s 3. So there’s your 7 point difference right there. Leylah also served in the 65% range for 1st serves, and Mandlik was at about 45%. Other than those differences on serve, it was very close.

by Suliso It's kind of old to still be outside the top 100. Some players do develop late, but it's not very common.

by patrick

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:58 am Elizabeth Mandlik. Remember that name. She will be a top 30 player, at least.
You heard it here first.
She is 21 years old and is Hana Mandlikova's daughter (I have no idea where the 'ova' went - maybe it's because Elizabeth is American).

She is playing Leylah right now at a 125 level tournament in Tampico, Mexico. Mandlik was ahead by a break in the 1st set, but Leylah broke her back when she was serving for the set. Then Leylah won the tiebreak 10-8.
I was more impressed with Mandlik in that set than I was with Leylah. She has the tools - and the tennis genes, obviously... all that's missing is the experience at the WTA level.
She is currently ranked #124. It would not surprise me at all if she is a top 10 player in about 3 years.

Did Mandlik play San Jose? She played well there.

by ashkor87 Not looking it up but she did play well at SJ, lost narrowly to Badosa, I think

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 5:10 am It's kind of old to still be outside the top 100. Some players do develop late, but it's not very common.

I knew she was Mandlikova's daughter, which would mean excellent coaching around the net.
But yes, 21 is already a bit past the time more players in the WTA make a move into the top 100. Did she go to college in the USA? That would explain it a bit.
Obviously, I have not seen her play (they never show any WTA here, other than the Slams) so I know nothing about her game.

by Deuce I think she did play college tennis (in the USA).
She played a couple of years at the ITF level, where she won 7 titles, including 3 W25s this year.

She just played her first WTA level match this year.
Her highest ITF singles ranking was 46, which was in February of 2020. One year ago, she was ranked around 500 in both the ITF and the WTA.

She has a twin brother - Mark - who plays tennis at the University of Oklahoma.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:11 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 5:10 am It's kind of old to still be outside the top 100. Some players do develop late, but it's not very common.
I knew she was Mandlikova's daughter, which would mean excellent coaching around the net.
But yes, 21 is already a bit past the time more players in the WTA make a move into the top 100. Did she go to college in the USA? That would explain it a bit.
Obviously, I have not seen her play (they never show any WTA here, other than the Slams) so I know nothing about her game.

She didn't go to college. The delay could be related to two things - Covid, which sidelined her after a strong ITF year as a teenager, and the continued graying of the field. The average age of the top 100 player has gotten older, leaving fewer spots for less-experienced players.

by ponchi101 Things that slip under the radar.
I "knew" and at the same time was oblivious that Ons and Pegula are 28; Garcia is 29. Simona is already 31. I guess I was focusing more on Coco, Iga, Emma and Leylah, who are certainly younger, and did not notice that indeed, the average age has gone older.

by Suliso There are already players even younger than Coco in the top 100 or very close.

by ti-amie Tennis fan doing the work of tennis media. Thanks to @JoyLuckScrub for this list of the balls used at all of the 2022 hard court tournaments by the WTA.

OUTDOOR HARDCOURT

Adelaide 1+2 - Dunlop AO Extra Duty

Melbourne 1+2 - Dunlop AO Extra Duty

Sydney - Dunlop AO Extra Duty

Australian Open - Dunlop AO Extra Duty

Dubai - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Doha - Dunlop AO Extra Duty

Guadalajara 1 - Wilson US Open High Altitude

Monterrey - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Indian Wells - Penn Tour Regular Duty

Miami - Dunlop Grand Prix Regular Duty

Prague - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

San Jose - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Washington - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Canada - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Cincinnati - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Cleveland - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Granby - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

US Open - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Slovenia - Dunlop Fort All Court (regular duty)

Chennai - Wilson Tour Premier All Court (regular duty)

Seoul - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Tokyo - Dunlop AO Exta Duty

Monastir - Babolat Team All Court (regular duty)

San Diego - Dunlop Grand Prix Regular Duty

Guadalajara 2 - Wilson US Open High Altitude

That's 8 tournaments using extra duty, 17 tournaments using regular duty, 2 tournaments using high altitude

INDOOR HARDCOURT

St. Petersburg - Babolat Team (? duty)

Lyon - Head Tour (? duty)

Tallin - Head Tour (? duty)

Ostrava - Dunlop AO Extra Duty

Transylvania - Wilson Tour Premier All Court (regular duty)

WTA Finals Forth Worth - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

by ponchi101 I think the Head Tour ball comes in both regular and extra duty.

by Deuce For those Canadians wanting to watch Leylah vs. Marino in Tampico (starting now), you can go here...

https://player.video.wowza.com/hosted/f ... layer.html

.

by ti-amie Or set your VPN to a city in Canada...

#just saying.

ETA Leylah looked awful just now. She was serving to stay in the first set but either overhit her returns or missed her target serving. That music that's playing is way too loud too. How can anyone focus with that noise?

by meganfernandez How did the media drop the, um, ball?

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:27 pm Tennis fan doing the work of tennis media. Thanks to @JoyLuckScrub for this list of the balls used at all of the 2022 hard court tournaments by the WTA.

OUTDOOR HARDCOURT

Adelaide 1+2 - Dunlop AO Extra Duty

Melbourne 1+2 - Dunlop AO Extra Duty

Sydney - Dunlop AO Extra Duty

Australian Open - Dunlop AO Extra Duty

Dubai - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Doha - Dunlop AO Extra Duty

Guadalajara 1 - Wilson US Open High Altitude

Monterrey - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Indian Wells - Penn Tour Regular Duty

Miami - Dunlop Grand Prix Regular Duty

Prague - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

San Jose - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Washington - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Canada - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Cincinnati - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Cleveland - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Granby - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

US Open - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Slovenia - Dunlop Fort All Court (regular duty)

Chennai - Wilson Tour Premier All Court (regular duty)

Seoul - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

Tokyo - Dunlop AO Exta Duty

Monastir - Babolat Team All Court (regular duty)

San Diego - Dunlop Grand Prix Regular Duty

Guadalajara 2 - Wilson US Open High Altitude

That's 8 tournaments using extra duty, 17 tournaments using regular duty, 2 tournaments using high altitude

INDOOR HARDCOURT

St. Petersburg - Babolat Team (? duty)

Lyon - Head Tour (? duty)

Tallin - Head Tour (? duty)

Ostrava - Dunlop AO Extra Duty

Transylvania - Wilson Tour Premier All Court (regular duty)

WTA Finals Forth Worth - Wilson US Open Regular Duty

by ti-amie When the controversy was "raging" because of Iga's comments how hard would it have been for someone to do what this fan did? It would've informed the conversation giving a reference point for people to start from. Tennis journalists, present company excluded, seem to basically take PR releases from top players, tours or tournaments and rehash them.

I don't play anymore but there are lots of folks on TennisTwitter who do and a "cheat sheet" like this would've enabled people to look at results, etc and form an opinion.

That's all I meant.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:05 am Or set your VPN to a city in Canada...

#just saying.

ETA Leylah looked awful just now. She was serving to stay in the first set but either overhit her returns or missed her target serving. That music that's playing is way too loud too. How can anyone focus with that noise?

The music, the trains, the linespeople still calling the lines through the net in the quarterfinals (and no challenges, of course)... it’s a 125 in Mexico, and that’s what happens, I guess.

Leylah and Marino are good friends - Rebecca has been one of Leylah’s main mentors. They know one another’s games well... But tonight, Rebecca’s experience completely outsmarted Leylah.
Marino was in control from the beginning. Leylah looked lost out there. Rebecca overpowered her and outsmarted her - she won several points with well timed and well placed slices.

This is one of the best matches I’ve ever seen Rebecca play. She's been playing really well the past few months, back into the top 100... When she got off to the great start tonight, I was figuring it wouldn’t last. Rebecca is definitely one of the most genuinely nice players on the tour, and I thought that subconsciously - or even semi-consciously -, she wouldn’t want to disturb Leylah’s progress and development by beating her, and her level would drop. It did drop a few times during the match, but she picked it right up in the next game.
Quite impressive from Marino tonight.

I guarantee that Rebecca is taking the time to console Leylah in the locker room right now. That’s the kind of person she is (and the kind of person we need more of).

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:35 am When the controversy was "raging" because of Iga's comments how hard would it have been for someone to do what this fan did? It would've informed the conversation giving a reference point for people to start from. Tennis journalists, present company excluded, seem to basically take PR releases from top players, tours or tournaments and rehash them.

I don't play anymore but there are lots of folks on TennisTwitter who do and a "cheat sheet" like this would've enabled people to look at results, etc and form an opinion.

That's all I meant.

I see no problem with them sometimes using regular duty, and sometimes the thicker extra duty felt. It's a challenge to adjust from one to the other, and challenging situations are good for the game.
I don't see it as being any different than adjusting to different surfaces, or adjusting to the temperature, or the wind, etc. Even the different brands of ball play differently... so those players who are whining about the regular duty vs. extra duty should really just shut up and play.

In baseball and football, they must adjust to different playing surfaces, too... In hockey, there have been different sizes of rinks...
God knows that every golf course is different from the last one they played on...
Life is about the challenges of adjusting to different circumstances and conditions.

by Deuce Marino continued her strong play into the 1st set of her semi-final vs. Magda Linette. But after Marino won that 1st set 6-3, a storm front moved in... Play was delayed only for about 5 minutes due to a little rain - but the wind increased dramatically from that point onward through the remainder of the match, which Linette won in 3 sets.

There was only one stationary camera (with its own microphone) in use here, and all you could hear on the camera's microphone were the constant gusts of wind. It was so strong that you often couldn't hear the balls being struck.
As soon as that storm front moved in, Marino's level dropped. She didn't know how to deal with the strong wind.
Marino used to be a rather one-dimensional, hard hitting baseline player. But lately, she's incorporating more variety into her game, not just hitting hard from the baseline. She's slicing more, using more angles, etc. I think this was the reason that she couldn't adjust to the windy conditions - slices usually don't work well in the wind.

She's been working with a Mexican coach (paid for in part by Tennis Canada) for the past few months, and it seems that he has encouraged her to be more multi-dimensional, and not just a one dimensional player. It has been working well - she's had good results in the past few months, and is ranked around #80 now. But it just didn't work in the wind today.

by Deuce At an 80k tournament in France, youngster Clara Tauson's behaviour was apparently rather questionable in her match vs. Petra Marcinko.
Tauson is 19 years old. She was a top Junior player.
Marcinko is a 16 year old who many people believe has a lot of potential to do well.

I did not see the match. But what I've read about the match was that Tauson was complaining a lot about line calls and time violations (both while serving and receiving), was being belligerent, and was generally very frustrated.
I've also read that she was justified in some of her complaints about the line calls.

In the end, Tauson simply quit at 1-2 in the 3rd set. No injury - she had just had enough.

Here are the last few minutes of the match. Again - I did not watch it - but for those who want to invest the time to see how it all played out, the entire match is here.
(I think I've set it up to show the last few minutes, but in case I haven't, you can start at the 1 hour, 45 minute mark, where Tauson is closest to the camera)...

by ti-amie You set it up just fine Deuce.

Tauson is on a lot of peoples watch list but I've seen her play before and her inner brat is always lurking just below the surface. Unfortunate behavior from her.

by Deuce If you go back and start at 1 hour, 30 minutes in the video above (Tauson is closest to the camera again), you'll see some more of Tauson's behaviour - whining about line calls, getting called for time violations, deliberately giving points away by hitting balls into the net to get the point over with...
Her frustration was definitely increasing every minute.
Part of her frustration was very likely losing the 2nd set rather easily to a 16 year old kid...

She was booed by the crowd as she walked off the court after quitting.
That's tough for a 19 year old to deal with - but it seems that she brought it upon herself.
Hopefully down the road a bit, she'll look back and view this episode as a learning/maturing experience.

by ti-amie I follow someone on Tennis Twitter who has been talking her up ever since she was the age of the person she lost to today. Lately he hasn't been cheerleading as much as he used to.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:03 am I follow someone on Tennis Twitter who has been talking her up ever since she was the age of the person she lost to today. Lately he hasn't been cheerleading as much as he used to.

Suliso here has been keeping an eye on her and has let us know how/what she's doing on occasion. I wonder if he's seen any of these possible 'behavioural issues' before. This is the first I've seen or heard of it.

by Suliso I haven't seen myself, but I've read about it... It's a bad season by her. No real improvement in her game, maybe also a reason for such a behaviour. Disappointing...

by ti-amie The transition from the junior to pro tour is difficult enough without being labeled "the next big thing". Exhibit A is Richard Gasquet.

There was also this from our new "favorite" today.

by ti-amie

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 6:42 pm The transition from the junior to pro tour is difficult enough without being labeled "the next big thing". Exhibit A is Richard Gasquet.

Or maybe 'Exhibit A' is Donald Young...
Gasquet did make it into the top 10.
When he was 14 or 15, a lot of people - including John McEnroe - were saying that Donald Young is a future #1.

I remember a few years ago at a pro tournament, Felix was just a 14 or 15 year old kid, and he was hitting with some other Canadian kids on a practice court while Donald Young was practicing 2 courts away. I said to Young something like "You see that kid over there (I pointed Felix out among the other kids)? He's doing well - already won a couple of 'adult' tournaments. A lot of people are talking about him being a future top player. You'll likely be hearing from him soon."
Young replied something to the effect of "Wow, that's great. Looking forward to it."
I resisted the urge to add "We hope he won't be the next Donald Young."

Not that Young's career has been bad - he's had a respectable career... But it hasn't come close to what was predicted by many.

by ti-amie I agree about Donald Young. He could've been much more but he was never able to break away from his toxic family. And don't forget the Nadal family wanted him to come train with them but he (his family) refused the offer.

by Suliso True about Donald, but wasn't he also kind of small and underpowered for a top level pro? One can't say that about FAA.

by ponchi101 Zverev said it: There must have been a million future #1's that never became #1.
And the number of players that went the Young way must be way more than the ones that went Felix' way. Milan Schreber, Jimmy Arias, Janovicz, etc. The sample size is large.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie The draw for the WTA 125k in Midland is decent. I guess when the prize money isn't much different than that of a 250 event why not play? Zhang Shuai is ranked #24

CHN S. Zhang (1) vs JPN N. Hibino
USA K. Scott vs USA R. Anderson
USA C. Vandeweghe vs POL M. Frech
USA A. Li vs RUS V. Gracheva (6)

CHN Y. Yuan (4) vs GER A. Friedsam
Qualifier vs USA S. Vickery
USA E. Mandlik vs ROU G. Lee
CAN E. Bouchard vs COL C. Osorio (5)

JPN M. Uchijima (8) vs USA A. Krueger
USA A. Muhammad vs USA P. Stearns
Qualifier vs Qualifier
USA L. Chirico vs CHN L. Zhu (3)

USA C. McNally (7) vs USA A. Parks
KOR S. Jang vs Qualifier
USA S. Kenin vs USA M. Mateas
CAN C. Zhao vs USA M. Brengle (2)

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:10 am The draw for the WTA 125k in Midland is decent. I guess when the prize money isn't much different than that of a 250 event why not play? Zhang Shuai is ranked #24

I love these tournaments that call themselves 'Classics' (this one is the 'Dow Tennis Classic')... and when you look up the past winners, you see that this is the second ever edition of the tournament!
The definition of 'classic' seems to have changed significantly over the years.

Genie got yet another main draw wildcard for this one. She is receiving a lot of wildcards of late. Did she do another bikini shoot or something?

by ti-amie One of our oldest members usually attend this event and has for a long time. It may be the name that's relatively new but the event itself has become kind of a "classic".

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:40 pm One of our oldest members usually attend this event and has for a long time. It may be the name that's relatively new but the event itself has become kind of a "classic".

So then it's just because of stupid sponsorship logistics that they don't list the winners through the history of the event.
Sponsors have FAR too much influence on matters - much of it very petty and downright silly.

by ti-amie

Deuce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:47 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:40 pm One of our oldest members usually attend this event and has for a long time. It may be the name that's relatively new but the event itself has become kind of a "classic".
So then it's just because of stupid sponsorship logistics that they don't list the winners through the history of the event.
Sponsors have FAR too much influence on matters - much of it very petty and downright silly.

I may be thinking of the wrong Midland event. There is a Challenger event here too and this is a 125K. I don't know if he plans to attend this event even though one of his faves is playing.

Sorry for the confusion.

by ti-amie The incident in the video took place in Belgrade but the father and daughter are apparently Chinese.

The First Municipal Public Prosecutor's Office in Belgrade reacted to the brutal violence that was published on social networks, where a father can be seen physically abusing his daughter on the tennis court.

In cooperation with the inspectors of the Palilula Police Station and the Department for Foreigners, the identity of the participants of the event was determined, in fact, that they were Chinese citizens with temporary residence in Serbia.

Bearing in mind that the father, who is suspected of having committed the crime of domestic violence, is not available to the state authorities, a search warrant was issued by order of the deputy on duty.

When and if he is found, the prosecutor's office will immediately take the necessary measures with the aim of further processing, about which the public will be informed.

Source: Potraga za Kinezom koji je zverski tukao ćerku! Šokantan snimak sa teniskih terena uzbunuio Tužilaštvo (video)

Badosa, Azarenka, as seen above Judy Murray, and Iga's psychologist have all weighed in.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:51 pm The incident in the video took place in Belgrade but the father and daughter are apparently Chinese.

The First Municipal Public Prosecutor's Office in Belgrade reacted to the brutal violence that was published on social networks, where a father can be seen physically abusing his daughter on the tennis court.

In cooperation with the inspectors of the Palilula Police Station and the Department for Foreigners, the identity of the participants of the event was determined, in fact, that they were Chinese citizens with temporary residence in Serbia.

Bearing in mind that the father, who is suspected of having committed the crime of domestic violence, is not available to the state authorities, a search warrant was issued by order of the deputy on duty.

When and if he is found, the prosecutor's office will immediately take the necessary measures with the aim of further processing, about which the public will be informed.

Source: Potraga za Kinezom koji je zverski tukao ćerku! Šokantan snimak sa teniskih terena uzbunuio Tužilaštvo (video)

Badosa, Azarenka, as seen above Judy Murray, and Iga's psychologist have all weighed in.

Maybe this ^ should be in the thread with the video of the incident, for the sake of continuity...

by ti-amie True. I'll leave it here and repost it there.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Cami Osorio def Eugenie Bouchard 1-6, 6-2, 6-2 in Midland.

by Fastbackss Midland has been a tourney since the mid 90's.

Starting last year they upgraded the purse to make it a 125. Typically they'd get 2-3 in the top 100 to attend, more so now with the purse and time of year change

by ti-amie I'm watching/listening to Kenin v Brengle. If you want to hear/see some hard hitting that's the match for you. Tennis Channel is streaming it. One camera situation but it's better than nothing.

ETA: I'm watching on the App on my streaming device.

by Deuce Yeah, this kid gets lucky once in a while and hits a few good shots... But Agassi was just toying with him throughout, and beat him easily in less than an hour.
We surely weren't going to be seeing this kid doing much in the future...

by ti-amie

by Deuce At the WTA Finals in Texas now, the WTA is using the same type of plastic/rubber net at the ATP has used for several years. This type of net allows for the printing of words/designs on it, as opposed to the more traditional weaved material net, which does not easily lend itself to that.
I have no doubt that sponsors will eventually make their way onto these new nets.

For now, though, the ATP has been writing the ingenious 'ATP Tour' on their nets, and the WTA is countering with the extremely original 'WTA Tour' on theirs now.
This is for the .000000000001% of the population who can't figure out that when the men play, it's the ATP, and when the women play, it's the WTA.

If the WTA continues to use the plastic/rubber net, the silly net changes at the Majors and the other tournaments where both genders play at the same time will continue. I find this ridiculous and a complete waste of time and effort to swap one net for an identical net, which performs exactly the same purpose - simply in order to inform people that when the men are on court, it's the ATP, and when the women are on court, it's the WTA.

by ti-amie Meredith McGrath Stadium Court

Starts at 02:00 PM

LIVE MATCH
Semifinal
USA A. LI vs GER A. FRIEDSAM
15 4 2 -
40 6 2 -

UPCOMING
Semifinal
USA P. STEARNS vs USA C. MCNALLY (7)
UPCOMING
Final
USA A. MUHAMMAD/USA A. PARKS (1) vs GER A. FRIEDSAM/UKR N. KICHENOK

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Maybe a bit of proof that, if your game is not working, going back to a Challenger could be a good idea.
Better to play 4 matches against some good quality players, than play 1 and lose in the first round of a bigger tournament. Agassi did it around '96, I think.

by ti-amie Caty McNally def Anna-Lena Friedsam 6-3, 6-2 to win Midland

by Deuce ^ Caty seems to have been doing well - a steady, consistent progression - since she split with Gauff in doubles and began focusing somewhat more on her singles.

by Suliso That win earns her a top 100 debut and a ticket to AO main draw. Very well done indeed.

by JazzNU

Ash Barty rules out making comeback in tennis, other sport

Associated Press

MELBOURNE, Australia -- Former world No. 1 Ash Barty has emphatically ruled out ever making a comeback to tennis, or switching to another sport.

Launching her autobiography at Melbourne Park -- scene of her Australian Open triumph in January just two months before her shocking retirement announcement -- the 26-year-old said she had no desire to return to high-level sport, and was sure she never would.

"Nope, I'm done," Barty told Australian Associated Press on Monday. "You can never say never but no. No, no, no. I'm done."

The three-time Grand Slam singles winner, who spent 121 weeks with the top ranking, had played professional cricket with the Brisbane Heat during a hiatus from tennis.

She also plays golf off a handicap of four, prompting some observers to suggest she could pursue a future in that sport.

But, launching her memoir "My Dream Time," Barty insisted she was happy with her new, more settled life off the WTA Tour and had no professional sports plan in mind.

"I miss competing and challenging myself against the best of the world but I don't miss a lot that comes with it," she said. "I'm still competitive with myself when I train at home. I still try and push myself but there's no white-line fever any more.

"And I never really felt like there was this void that needed to be filled in because there was a genuine sense of fulfillment at the end of my career."

Barty, who married longtime partner Garry Kissick in July, said she was unsure what her future held, although she was already enjoying mentoring young players -- something that could point to a future role as Australian Billie Jean King Cup (formerly Fed Cup) captain.

She said that when she walked away from tennis for the first time in 2014, she was "searching ... searching for stimulation, I was searching for other things."

"But now I don't need that. Now I have probably understood and realized that I've had an extremely full, fulfilling, incredible journey in my athletic and professional career, and now it's time to close that chapter," she said.

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... ther-sport

by ponchi101 Hard to disagree when she explains it that way.
But I would say she is leaving at least 3 more slams on the table. If she is fine with that, I gather nobody can ask for more.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:07 pm Hard to disagree when she explains it that way.
But I would say she is leaving at least 3 more slams on the table. If she is fine with that, I gather nobody can ask for more.

At least 3 because she was competitive on all surfaces. She might feel differently in a few years. People change, especially in her stage of life. I hate to second-guess women and it's probably 80-20 that she won't return, but it wouldn't surprise me if she feels differently later.

In my book, she didn't "retire" at 17 or 18 - she took a long, indefinite break. She might be taking another one. How many players have retired prematurely and stayed gone?

by JazzNU

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:00 pm
In my book, she didn't "retire" at 17 or 18 - she took a long, indefinite break. She might be taking another one. How many players have retired prematurely and stayed gone?

There's probably differing definitions on what constitutes "early retirement." But I think Ash seems considerably more well adjusted than many of the ones that I can think of that retired early and came back. But there are some that retired and stayed retired.

Also, Ash never seemed to take to the travel. Maybe it would be different if she was European or American and had much more of a chance for reasonable breaks during the season at home. And that was before the pandemic made travel to and from Australia more difficult.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU They absolutely did. People (and the tournament officials) lost their minds that one year when Tatiana Golovin wore a very cute kit but she dared to wear red shorts underneath and it caused an uproar. Serena had purple shorts one year that she won. Maria wore orange shorts one year. They were always cute peaks of color.

Great that they changed the rule, but pitiful that the women needed to fight for this.

by ponchi101 Wimbledon idiocy with the white color is too extreme. All the examples you mention, plus the year that they made Roger changes shoes because THE SOLE was orange.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:18 pm Wimbledon idiocy with the white color is too extreme. All the examples you mention, plus the year that they made Roger changes shoes because THE SOLE was orange.

Goodness, that was ridiculous. Heaven forbid if you saw a flash of orange for a few seconds when he was serving or going for a shot mid-air.

by ponchi101 Plus then you see photos of all the previous champions with a bit of color here and there, and, well, the tournament did well in the 80's. Right?

by skatingfan They fixed the issue with the Ladies Wall of Champions as well.

http://www.kennethinthe212.com/2022/06/ ... catch.html

by ti-amie

by Fastbackss Which means he doesn't need the wild card and Chris Eubanks gets it

by ti-amie

https://aus.social/@spinopsys/109395604485116682

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:27 am

https://aus.social/@spinopsys/109395604485116682

This is quite ironic, as it is he - Nadal - who changed the game more than any other player in recent memory with his incredibly high topspin.

Tennis is played the way it is played today mostly because of the style he brought to the game. Of course, he didn't set out to change the way the game is played - but other players had no choice but to adapt if they wanted to have a chance against him. And then, with the added elements of bigger, lighter, stiffer racquets and polyester based strings, it all snowballed out of control.
As much as I admire his drive and determination and competitive spirit, I will always resent him for changing the game so much.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 And, BTW.
Sure, Nadal and Ruud are not going 100%. It is an exo.
But they are not playing hit and giggle tennis either. The strategy is serious and they have cracked a few great shots. Money well spent for those that went (I am watching on TV).

by Deuce Yes, Leylah has gone completely commercial with things, basically doing whatever sponsors tell her to do in order to pocket some money. I find this quite unfortunate, and I can't respect it. I had hoped that this shy kid from Canada would resist selling out like this.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:21 am And, BTW.
Sure, Nadal and Ruud are not going 100%. It is an exo.
But they are not playing hit and giggle tennis either. The strategy is serious and they have cracked a few great shots. Money well spent for those that went (I am watching on TV).

It seems like it has been going great. The crowds and fan events have made it seem to me like this exhibition is a very welcome tour in South America. I don't recall quite this much exuberance for something like this. Wasn't expecting the diplomatic part either. I get that Nadal is big time, but still wasn't expecting a sitdown with a president and his council or whatever outside of Spain.

It's been nice following along on Rafa and Casper's IG Stories. I've especially enjoyed seeing all the former players. A few like Gisela Dulko and Nicolas Lapentti, I haven't seen in ages.

by ponchi101 Every country has been putting on a good show before their match. Here, they got Giraldo out of retirement, and Cabal and Farah played too. It was a very good atmosphere.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:43 pm Every country has been putting on a good show before their match. Here, they got Giraldo out of retirement, and Cabal and Farah played too. It was a very good atmosphere.

Thanks for sharing, I only saw Cabal and Farah were there, not Giraldo. Very nice.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Let's see how many votes Roger gets.
I am still voting Pete. If JazzNu joins me, that's two votes for him.

by Deuce How about Rublev for being the most brave Russian with his numerous anti-war messages?
He won't get the most votes - but maybe he should.

by Deuce Of course, we know that the results of exhibition matches mean nothing, and are almost always pre-arranged.
But even with that, the optics of this are not good for Leylah...

by ti-amie Has Clijsters gained more weight?!

As you said Deuce the outcomes of exhibitions are often prearranged but I'd be really upset if I was on the losing end of this "match".

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:22 pm Has Clijsters gained more weight?!

As you said Deuce the outcomes of exhibitions are often prearranged but I'd be really upset if I was on the losing end of this "match".

^ Yeah - I think Kim's boobs are bigger - so she must be pregnant!

(For those who don't get the reference...)

by ti-amie I was actually looking at her thighs and her abdomen not her boobs.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:22 pm Has Clijsters gained more weight?!

As you said Deuce the outcomes of exhibitions are often prearranged but I'd be really upset if I was on the losing end of this "match".

Who would benefit from Kim Clijsters beating Leylah?
"I have an idea. Let's have an exhibition, and let's have a very popular but retired player, WITH NO ENDORSEMENTS to speak of, beat a very popular and up and coming player, with several endorsements running on her.
What do we get from that?
Uhm.... I dunno..."

Leylah was not interested in giving 100%? Sure, that is explainable. She would throw a match Vs Clijster to tell the rest of the WTA: "I can't even beat a 40 yo, retired player"?
If it had been arranged, she would have won 7-5.

by Deuce You would think that, yes, the logical arranged result would have Leylah winning. But in these sorts of events, there are usually all sorts of backroom deals, the details of which we have no idea about - and so anything is possible, and for any reason.

They also played a doubles set, and overall, the whole event pitted Leylah and Sock against Clijsters and Querry - female singles, male singles, and doubles. Sock beat Querry, and Leylah/Sock won the doubles - so Leylah comes out on the 'winning' end overall.

I doubt that 'losing' to Clijsters will do any damage to Leylah's reputation within pro tennis circles, as the other players, coaches, etc. know to never take exhibition results seriously. But it can damage her reputation among the average fans, who think that all results are important and indicative.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Stefanos can be maddening.
But I would accept his apology.
I wonder if he is one glaring case of arrested development.

by ti-amie Does anyone know more about an ATP/WTA exhibition held in Russia (St Petersburg?) over the weekend where the following players appeared as either coaches or as players? This is one exchange I saw on the bird app but there seems to have been little if any coverage of the event.

Putintseva
Bondar
Potapova
Gasanova
Rakhimova
Diatchenko
Kusnetsova
Myskina
Vesnina

Fuscovics
Djere
P. Martinez
Davydenko
Donskoy
Karatsev
Troicki
Tipsarevic

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:36 pm

Ok - reading the article makes it make more sense. It's not truly an apology at all - it's just more hot air from Tsitsipas telling us all that everything is always about him.
But we knew that already...

by meganfernandez Wrote this for Tennis.com
https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/th ... ons-jabeur

by ponchi101 Excellent piece, Megan. I will split ONE hair here: Jabeur never made us cry this year. Ok, maybe we were wishing her to win one of her two slam finals, but she has been great all year.
But a very clean and very thorough piece of journalism

.clap.

by Deuce

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:11 pm Wrote this for Tennis.com
https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/th ... ons-jabeur

Very nice piece, Megan...

“For all the noise Jabeur made at the All-England Club, she was most entertaining in silence—when she sliced and strummed the ball around the court so finely that it didn’t make a sound. Her semifinal against “barbecue buddy” Tatjana Maria of Germany, another old soul on grass, featured low-fi ornamental rallies that made you check the mute button. Six, seven, eight shots in a row flicked, feathered, fluttered.”
That ^ is a wonderfully descriptive paragraph (and very accurate, too).

I really liked the Coetzer reference.

There is probably not a current player who is more genuinely liked and respected by her peers than is Jabeur.

Did you get to choose which of the 'top 5' players you would write about, or was Jabeur 'assigned' to you?

by meganfernandez

Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:30 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:11 pm Wrote this for Tennis.com
https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/th ... ons-jabeur
Very nice piece, Megan...

“For all the noise Jabeur made at the All-England Club, she was most entertaining in silence—when she sliced and strummed the ball around the court so finely that it didn’t make a sound. Her semifinal against “barbecue buddy” Tatjana Maria of Germany, another old soul on grass, featured low-fi ornamental rallies that made you check the mute button. Six, seven, eight shots in a row flicked, feathered, fluttered.”
That ^ is a wonderfully descriptive paragraph (and very accurate, too).

I really liked the Coetzer reference.

There is probably not a current player who is more genuinely liked and respected by her peers than is Jabeur.

Did you get to choose which of the 'top 5' players you would write about, or was Jabeur 'assigned' to you?

Thank you so much! I love the wordsmithing in the paragraph you mention, too. I originally said "filagreed" instead of "flicked," which is a little hard/rough tonally for what I was going for, but I decided it was too pretentious. "Finessed" would have worked, but I used it earlier in the story, and repeating distinctive words dulls the copy. I'm glad you appreciate it.

They assigned me Jabeur. I didn't get to pick. I'm so glad. I think she was the most interesting one to write about.

Good point about the current play er most genuinely liked or respected. I guess we learned that this year, too. I could have used that.

by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:35 am
Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:30 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:11 pm Wrote this for Tennis.com
https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/th ... ons-jabeur
Very nice piece, Megan...

“For all the noise Jabeur made at the All-England Club, she was most entertaining in silence—when she sliced and strummed the ball around the court so finely that it didn’t make a sound. Her semifinal against “barbecue buddy” Tatjana Maria of Germany, another old soul on grass, featured low-fi ornamental rallies that made you check the mute button. Six, seven, eight shots in a row flicked, feathered, fluttered.”
That ^ is a wonderfully descriptive paragraph (and very accurate, too).

I really liked the Coetzer reference.

There is probably not a current player who is more genuinely liked and respected by her peers than is Jabeur.

Did you get to choose which of the 'top 5' players you would write about, or was Jabeur 'assigned' to you?

Thank you so much! I love the wordsmithing in the paragraph you mention, too. I originally said "filagreed" instead of "flicked," which is a little hard/rough tonally for what I was going for, but I decided it was too pretentious. "Finessed" would have worked, but I used it earlier in the story, and repeating distinctive words dulls the copy. I'm glad you appreciate it.

They assigned me Jabeur. I didn't get to pick. I'm so glad. I think she was the most interesting one to write about.

Good point about the current play er most genuinely liked or respected. I guess we learned that this year, too. I could have used that.

Very nice article..loved it .wish more people were as passionate about the sport, wrote so well, with such fine understanding ..

by ashkor87 who would be your candidate for 'best player who never won a major'?
On the Men, I would say Marcelo Rios
on the women, perhaps Radwanska or Dementieva...
right now, Pliskova and Svitolina are fast becoming candidates.. Garcia and Jabeur may still avoid this unwanted title..they just need a bit of luck.

by ashkor87 Btw apologies if there is already a board on this..looked, didn't find it

by skatingfan Men - Todd Martin
Women - Dinara Safina

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:34 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:35 am
Deuce wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:30 am
Very nice piece, Megan...

“For all the noise Jabeur made at the All-England Club, she was most entertaining in silence—when she sliced and strummed the ball around the court so finely that it didn’t make a sound. Her semifinal against “barbecue buddy” Tatjana Maria of Germany, another old soul on grass, featured low-fi ornamental rallies that made you check the mute button. Six, seven, eight shots in a row flicked, feathered, fluttered.”
That ^ is a wonderfully descriptive paragraph (and very accurate, too).

I really liked the Coetzer reference.

There is probably not a current player who is more genuinely liked and respected by her peers than is Jabeur.

Did you get to choose which of the 'top 5' players you would write about, or was Jabeur 'assigned' to you?

Thank you so much! I love the wordsmithing in the paragraph you mention, too. I originally said "filagreed" instead of "flicked," which is a little hard/rough tonally for what I was going for, but I decided it was too pretentious. "Finessed" would have worked, but I used it earlier in the story, and repeating distinctive words dulls the copy. I'm glad you appreciate it.

They assigned me Jabeur. I didn't get to pick. I'm so glad. I think she was the most interesting one to write about.

Good point about the current play er most genuinely liked or respected. I guess we learned that this year, too. I could have used that.
Very nice article..loved it .wish more people were as passionate about the sport, wrote so well, with such fine understanding ..

Thank you, ashkor! I learn so much about tennis from everyone here, including you.

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:35 am who would be your candidate for 'best player who never won a major'?
On the Men, I would say Marcelo Rios
on the women, perhaps Radwanska or Dementieva...
right now, Pliskova and Svitolina are fast becoming candidates.. Garcia and Jabeur may still avoid this unwanted title..they just need a bit of luck.

Women, Sabalenka. This isn't even recency bias.

Men, Berdych or Kyrgios. Berdych edges him on mental strength and professionalism, of course. I'f we're looking at everything, it's Berdych for me. But Kyrgios is more talented.

by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:08 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:35 am who would be your candidate for 'best player who never won a major'?
On the Men, I would say Marcelo Rios
on the women, perhaps Radwanska or Dementieva...
right now, Pliskova and Svitolina are fast becoming candidates.. Garcia and Jabeur may still avoid this unwanted title..they just need a bit of luck.
Women, Sabalenka. This isn't even recency bias.

Men, Berdych or Kyrgios. Berdych edges him on mental strength and professionalism, of course. I'f we're looking at everything, it's Berdych for me. But Kyrgios is more talented.

Sabalenka is not done yet so I didn't include her!

by ponchi101 Men: Henri Laconte. We usually forget how easily that man produced magic with a racquet.
Women. I already said Sukova. Shriver was a also a fine player, but I just did not like that style.

by Deuce I think you have to include 'The Big Cat' Miloslav Mecir into any discussion of the 'best player to never win a Major'. You'd be hard pressed to find a more smooth playing style than Mecir's.

Selecting players for this category depends on if we are looking at physical ability alone, or if we're considering the overall package. On physical ability alone, I can agree with the selections of Sabalenka and Kyrgios - and I'd throw in Arazi and Leconte, as well - all 3 of these players have a very high level of physical ability - and therefore much 'potential'... but if we're looking at the overall player, which includes what is commonly referred to as 'mental strength', then I'd EXclude Sabalenka, Kyrgios, Arazi, and Leconte - because they have all proven to be severely lacking in the area of 'mental strength'.

by Suliso I'd say we should look at players who got close multiple times but never won.

by ti-amie Marcelo Rios is my pick for the male player who never won a title.

I really have to think about a female player and that says more about me than about the WTA.

by JTContinental Rios for the men, and Safina or Jankovic for the women. Keys could also end up in this category

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:18 pm I'd say we should look at players who got close multiple times but never won.

Cedric Pioline, then. Always forgotten, yet, one USO Final, one W final. Both losses to Pete, but still, quite an accomplishment.

by Deuce Pioline was good, but I never considered him to be a 'top player'.

Mecir made 2 Major Finals, as well - Australia and U.S. Open -, losing to Lendl both times. He also lost in the Semis at Roland Garros and Wimbledon. And to me, Mecir was a better player than was Pioline.

A couple of people have mentioned Safina for the women... This surprises me somewhat, as, when Safina was #1 in the world, everyone and their grandmother (and Serena) were ridiculing that, saying that she's the most undeserving #1 player in history.
Yes, she reached 3 Major Finals... but she never struck me as being a true force in tennis.
Of course, she had to deal with the inevitable comparisons to her brother, as well, which surely was not easy.

by Suliso True forces did win majors. So we're necessarily talking here about the 2nd tier.

by Deuce

Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:30 pm True forces did win majors. So we're necessarily talking here about the 2nd tier.

I suppose...
But we're also trying to determine the BEST of the second tier - which I would think is pretty close to being considered a true force over a period of time.

by ti-amie So far I've seen Aga Radwanska, Dinara Safina, Jelena Jankovic, Sukova, Shriver (Never a great singles player IMO) and I know I'm leaving some players out for the Best of the Rest category. Is there a poll coming up?

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:47 pm So far I've seen Aga Radwanska, Dinara Safina, Jelena Jankovic, Sukova, Shriver (Never a great singles player IMO) and I know I'm leaving some players out for the Best of the Rest category. Is there a poll coming up?

If there's a poll, wouldn't Radwanska automatically be declared the winner?

by ti-amie I wouldn't vote for her. Never cared for her style and never thought she was strong enough physically to win a Slam.

by ti-amie

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:59 pm I wouldn't vote for her. Never cared for her style and never thought she was strong enough physically to win a Slam.

I wouldn't necessarily vote for her, either - but I maintain that if there's a poll, she would automatically win.

(Just a little play on words here - I guess it would work better orally than it does in writing

)

by ashkor87 Tony Roche, Gene Mayer, David Ferrer, Nalbandian..are also candidates..Roche was about par with Newcombe but Newcombe did much better eventually..

by ashkor87 Yikes, forgot that Roche did win RG once. But I would agree Safina is probably the one who came closest..

by ashkor87

Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:30 pm True forces did win majors. So we're necessarily talking here about the 2nd tier.

Mostly true...of course though I think Dementieva, Safina and Radwanska were better than some who did win...

by ashkor87

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:47 pm So far I've seen Aga Radwanska, Dinara Safina, Jelena Jankovic, Sukova, Shriver (Never a great singles player IMO) and I know I'm leaving some players out for the Best of the Rest category. Is there a poll coming up?

A poll would be fun..I don't know how to create one so ...

by ashkor87 As courtesy, we should leave out currently active players..like a hall of fame .(almost said infamy but that would not be fair)

by Deuce Tim Henman had a bunch of Semi-Final appearances in Majors...
Amanda Coetzer was in the top 20 for 10 consecutive years...

by ponchi101 I agree Ferrer and Nalbandian could be in the conversation. Nalbandian did win the most incredible tour finals ever. Ferrer reached a RG final. Plus, of course, he suffered playing his entire career under the yolk of the Roger/Rafa/Nole dictatorship.

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 1:31 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:47 pm So far I've seen Aga Radwanska, Dinara Safina, Jelena Jankovic, Sukova, Shriver (Never a great singles player IMO) and I know I'm leaving some players out for the Best of the Rest category. Is there a poll coming up?
A poll would be fun..I don't know how to create one so ...

I can create the poll. But:
Who would be the names in the poll? Look already at how many players we are talking about, and we have a limit of 10 options in a poll.
So, 5 women, and 5 men? We always need pesky Mr/Miss OTHER in this type of discussions.

by ashkor87 5 is a good number..
Men- Rios, Berdych, Ferrer, Nalbandian, Henman would cover it, I think
Women - Radwanska, Safina, sukova, Dementieva, maybe jankovic...?

by Owendonovan Dokic?

by Deuce A poll without Mecir's name would not be right.
I don't think a poll is needed, or even advisable, because some deserving names would inevitably be left off. Plus, we've all responded with our choices already, anyway...

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 5:14 pm 5 is a good number..
Men- Rios, Berdych, Ferrer, Nalbandian, Henman would cover it, I think
Women - Radwanska, Safina, sukova, Dementieva, maybe jankovic...?

You left out my Laconte pick

. And then my Pioline.
That is my problem with the poll. I say we need at least 10 for each tour.
And, for the women, we are missing some oldies. How about Rosie Casal? The woman played. On the other hand, Jankovic and Dementieva are two that I, personally, would not even consider. Especially Dementieva, with her serve.

by Deuce Going back, you can include Tom Okker's name, as well...

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:24 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 5:14 pm 5 is a good number..
Men- Rios, Berdych, Ferrer, Nalbandian, Henman would cover it, I think
Women - Radwanska, Safina, sukova, Dementieva, maybe jankovic...?
You left out my Laconte pick . And then my Pioline.
That is my problem with the poll. I say we need at least 10 for each tour.
And, for the women, we are missing some oldies. How about Rosie Casal? The woman played. On the other hand, Jankovic and Dementieva are two that I, personally, would not even consider. Especially Dementieva, with her serve.

You are right ...LeConte is a candidate for sure, so is Pioline..and Rosie Casals (,though I have never seen her play) I loved Mecir too...

I wouldn't consider Jankovic either but someone here had mentioned her..Dementieva won an Olympic gold and was runner up twice at majors ..reached the semis 7 times at a major.

by ponchi101 Dementieva, to me, is a front runner in the OVERACHIEVER category. No serve to speak of, no net game either, yet she reached all those accomplishments.
Of course, the groundstrokes were pure power and placement distilled.

by ashkor87 Finally got to see the latest US sensation Alycia Parks ..very impressed. Silky smooth like Rybakina...power, touch, volley, good serve..moves reasonably well ( room for improvement), even has drop shots .lot of upside, more than Gauff, perhaps! Keep an eye on her..

by ti-amie Is this where you saw Parks ashkor? This is quite an entry list.

Limoges 125k
Draw size: 32S / 4Q / 8D
Date (main draw): December 11-17, 2022
Surface: Indoor hard
Venue: Palais des Sports de Beaublanc, Limoges

Entries
Seed Name Seeding Ranking Entry Ranking

1 (WC) Shuai Zhang 24
2 (WC) Aliaksandra Sasnovich 30
3 (WC) Alizé Cornet 36
4 (WC) Ana Bogdan 48
5 Anhelina Kalinina 53 53
6 Lucia Bronzetti 58 57
7 Tatjana Maria 70 69
8 Marta Kostyuk 71 70
Anna Blinkova 80 80
Varvara Gracheva 94 95
Marketa Vondrousova 97 98
Alycia Parks 100 119
Kristina Mladenovic 115 112
Clara Burel 125 129
Elizabeth Mandlik 126 120
Erika Andreeva 127 123
Clara Tauson 132 128
Jodie Burrage 134 127
Lucrezia Stefanini 144 141
Anna-Lena Friedsam 146 143
Katrina Scott 162 163
Jessika Ponchet 172 168
Joanne Zuger 185 187
Greet Minnen 203 202
Carole Monnet 225 226
(WC) Sofia Kenin 240
(WC) Audrey Albie 271
Nefisa Berberovic 288 231
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)

by ti-amie BTW Kenin is out to Blinkova already in straight sets 4&4

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:49 pm Is this where you saw Parks ashkor? This is quite an entry list.

Limoges 125k
Draw size: 32S / 4Q / 8D
Date (main draw): December 11-17, 2022
Surface: Indoor hard
Venue: Palais des Sports de Beaublanc, Limoges

Entries
Seed Name Seeding Ranking Entry Ranking

1 (WC) Shuai Zhang 24
2 (WC) Aliaksandra Sasnovich 30
3 (WC) Alizé Cornet 36
4 (WC) Ana Bogdan 48
5 Anhelina Kalinina 53 53
6 Lucia Bronzetti 58 57
7 Tatjana Maria 70 69
8 Marta Kostyuk 71 70
Anna Blinkova 80 80
Varvara Gracheva 94 95
Marketa Vondrousova 97 98
Alycia Parks 100 119
Kristina Mladenovic 115 112
Clara Burel 125 129
Elizabeth Mandlik 126 120
Erika Andreeva 127 123
Clara Tauson 132 128
Jodie Burrage 134 127
Lucrezia Stefanini 144 141
Anna-Lena Friedsam 146 143
Katrina Scott 162 163
Jessika Ponchet 172 168
Joanne Zuger 185 187
Greet Minnen 203 202
Carole Monnet 225 226
(WC) Sofia Kenin 240
(WC) Audrey Albie 271
Nefisa Berberovic 288 231
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:52 pm BTW Kenin is out to Blinkova already in straight sets 4&4

Kenin who?
(Has any top player completely disappeared more rapidly than Kenin? Genie Bouchard disappeared quite fast - but not as fast as Kenin... and Genie hadn't had the same degree of success that Kenin had.)

125s will tend to attract more known players at this time of year than usual, because of the lack of tournaments, and some players wanting to get a jump on the season to be ready for the Aussie swing in January.

As for Alicia Parks - she won both the singles and the doubles Final today in the 125 tournament before the one mentioned above.
I haven't seen her play much, and so can't comment on her tennis abilities. But she's going to have to show me that she has matured into much better sportsmanship than what she is best known for here in Canada...

Here (below) is a video of what I'm referring to. It happened 3 years ago between Parks and Canadian Katherine Sebov, who is currently ranked #223 (Parks is currently ranked #100).
Being Canadian myself, I've seen Sebov play several times. I've never seen her cause any problems or be involved in any type of controversial situation apart from this one. She is known here as a fair player. I asked a linesman friend of mine (who has officiated many of Sebov's matches over the years, going back to Junior level) if he's ever seen Sebov cause any problems, and he said 'No'.

For those who wish to delve deeper into this mess, I am including a couple of links below the video, where Stephanie Myles tries to dissect what happened...

Sebov vs. Parks - Dissection 1...

Sebov vs. Parks - Dissection 2...

.

by ashkor87 Saw Parks on YouTube..beating Sakkari at Ostrava and playing Jabeur on grass at Berlin...

by ashkor87 Checked the draw..Parks doesn't seem to be playing

by ti-amie Correct. She just won the tournament before this one I think.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Swiatek named 2022 WTA Player of the Year
Iga Swiatek, along with the doubles team of Barbora Krejcikova and Katerina Siniakova, were among the WTA award winners announced Monday.

By Press Release

The WTA will celebrate the standout performers of the 2022 season over the next few days as part of Awards Week, which kicks off Monday.

From Dec. 12 to 16, the WTA will honor this year’s best players, tournaments, coach and those athletes who have gone above and beyond to support the Hologic WTA Tour at every level.

The first of five Players Awards, three Player Service Awards in addition to the Coach of the Year Award on Monday were the first to be announced. Later this week, the WTA will reveal the Tournaments of the Year in their respective categories, with all winners being celebrated on social media and digital platforms in the coming days.

The 2022 WTA Player Award winners, as voted for by international tennis media, are:

Player of the Year: Iga Swiatek

This is World No.1 Iga Swiatek’s first time winning the WTA Player of the Year. Swiatek, who won Newcomer of the Year in 2020, had an outstanding season in 2022, leading the way for finals reached, trophies won and matches won. She was crowned champion at eight tournaments, including winning six events in a row, including a 37-match winning streak.

Among those eight titles were two Grand Slams, at Roland Garros and the US Open, WTA 1000 titles at the Qatar TotalEnergies Open (Doha), BNP Paribas Open (Indian Wells), the Miami Open presented Itaú, Internazionali BNL d'Italia (Rome) and WTA 500 titles at the Porsche Tennis Grand Prix (Stuttgart) and the San Diego Open. Overall, Swiatek won 67 matches this season.

Doubles Team of the Year: Barbora Krejcikova and Katerina Siniakova

Barbora Krejcikova and doubles World No.1 Katerina Siniakova were awarded the Doubles Team of the Year for the second season in a row and third time overall. The Czech pairing won three titles in 2022, all coming at the majors -- the Australian Open, Wimbledon and the US Open. They also reached the title match at the WTA Finals. Their title in New York secured them the career Grand Slam, a feat achieved by only six other doubles teams.

Most Improved Player of the Year: Beatriz Haddad Maia

Player who finished inside the Top 100 and showed significant improvement throughout the season

Beatriz Haddad Maia is the first Brazilian woman to win a WTA Player Awards since they were introduced in 1977. Her season was highlighted by a stellar sequence of results on grass, becoming the first woman to win the WTA 250 Rothesay Open Nottingham and WTA 250 Rothesay Classic Birmingham back-to-back, while also making the semifinals at WTA 500 Rothesay International Eastbourne.

She broke into the Top 20 for the first time following her run to the final at the WTA 1000 National Bank Open presented by Rogers (Toronto) in August and went on to post a new-career high ranking of No.15 as part of a memorable season.

Newcomer of the Year: Zheng Qinwen

Player who made Top 100 debut and/or notable accomplishments during the season

Zheng Qinwen rose over 100 places this season in the WTA Rankings, with a steady string of results over the year and broke into the Top 25 by the end of 2022. She reached her first WTA final at the WTA 500 Toray Pan Pacific Open (Tokyo), the semifinals of the WTA 250 Melbourne Summer Set 1, the last eight at the WTA 1000 level National Bank Open presented by Rogers (Toronto) and posting her best Grand Slam result by reaching the Round of 16 at Roland-Garros. Zheng Qinwen is the second Chinese woman win a WTA Player Award, after Zheng Jie earned the Comeback Player of the Year honor in 2008.

Comeback Player of the Year: Tatjana Maria

Player whose ranking previously dropped due to injury or personal reasons and current season's results helped restore ranking

After taking time away from summer 2020 to July 2021 to give birth to her second child Cecilia, Tatjana Maria enjoyed a return to winning ways in 2022, triumphing at the WTA 250 Copa Colsanitas presented by Zurich (Bogota) as a qualifier to lift her second career title and first since 2018. She further cemented her comeback with a fairytale run to her first Grand Slam semifinal at Wimbledon, before another semifinal at the WTA 250 Hana Bank Korea Open (Seoul) and making the last eight at WTA 250 Championnats Banque Nationale de Granby.

Photo by Sarah-Jäde Champagne

by ti-amie The WTA Coach of the Year award went to David Witt. He works with Jessica Pegula, a 28-year-old American who rose to a career-best No. 3 in the rankings during 2022 and was a quarterfinalist at three Grand Slam tournaments — losing to Barty or Swiatek each time.

https://www.usnews.com/news/sports/arti ... ach%20time.

by Deuce It's nice to see Tatjana Maria be recognized. She and her husband Charles-Edouard were very nice to me at a tournament this pas summer - very friendly and down to Earth... I even 'conspired' with her husband to get into centre court when it was 'sold out' (though 80% of the seats were empty!) - he took me into the court with them as part of their 'entourage'.

Their daughter Charlotte will be a WTA level player in about 10 years. You heard it here first. She's good.

by ponchi101 Truly nothing to say about these picks. They seem correct.
I like that BHM got that recognition. She has become a reliable winner.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:22 pm Truly nothing to say about these picks. They seem correct.
I like that BHM got that recognition. She has become a reliable winner.

Agree....though I might prefer Garcia for most improved, or even comeback player...

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:24 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:22 pm Truly nothing to say about these picks. They seem correct.
I like that BHM got that recognition. She has become a reliable winner.
Agree....though I might prefer Garcia for most improved, or even comeback player...

Now that you say it... Yes. I know Maria had a very good comeback, but Garcia came all the way back to be a factor at slams. That would have been another good choice.

by ashkor87

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:54 pm The WTA Coach of the Year award went to David Witt. He works with Jessica Pegula, a 28-year-old American who rose to a career-best No. 3 in the rankings during 2022 and was a quarterfinalist at three Grand Slam tournaments — losing to Barty or Swiatek each time.

https://www.usnews.com/news/sports/arti ... ach%20time.

Wasn't David Witt coaching Venus for a long time? Nobody heard about him then..wonder why..?

by ti-amie We Venus fans knew all about Witt. He was the same man he is now when it comes to his behavior on court. There was the time when they had a huge blow out though and he quit only to come/be brought back. He wanted Venus to quit a few years ago too.

Iga stans wanted her coach to get the nod.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:03 am
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:24 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:22 pm Truly nothing to say about these picks. They seem correct.
I like that BHM got that recognition. She has become a reliable winner.
Agree....though I might prefer Garcia for most improved, or even comeback player...
Now that you say it... Yes. I know Maria had a very good comeback, but Garcia came all the way back to be a factor at slams. That would have been another good choice.

Maybe the wta should include the clause that the player should have been literally off the tour for much of the previous year, to be comeback player..then Maria would be the obvious choice..the current definition is a bit ambiguous

by ashkor87 The way players are simply going off the boil and coming back, maybe a new category Resurgent player is called for!

by Deuce Sure, Garcia definitely deserves serious consideration for 'comeback player'.
The differences between Garcia and Tatjana Maria are that A) I believe Garcia was ranked higher at her highest than Maria ever was, B) Maria is older than Garcia, C) Maria left the tour to give birth (to her second child), whereas Garcia had just faded away on her own for a while.

And let's not forget that Maria would be ranked significantly higher now if her points from the Wimbledon Semi-Final counted.

I wonder if Kenin will ever win the 'comeback (or resurgent) player' award.

I like Qinwen as 'newcomer of the year'.
Maria's daughter Charlotte will win 'newcomer of the year' in 2033

.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:20 am We Venus fans knew all about Witt. He was the same man he is now when it comes to his behavior on court. There was the time when they had a huge blow out though and he quit only to come/be brought back. He wanted Venus to quit a few years ago too.

Iga stans wanted her coach to get the nod.

That is not totally farfetched. She was a very good clay courter. She has now become a very good hard court player, and if the coach has been there, he gets some credit.
Also. A very dominant year, and a well-managed schedule. Coaches get credit for that.

by ashkor87

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 5:27 am Finally got to see the latest US sensation Alycia Parks ..very impressed. Silky smooth like Rybakina...power, touch, volley, good serve..moves reasonably well ( room for improvement), even has drop shots .lot of upside, more than Gauff, perhaps! Keep an eye on her..

surpisingly ungracious handshakes from Pliskova and Sakkari, considering Parks is a young player.. wonder why?

by Deuce

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:42 am
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 5:27 am Finally got to see the latest US sensation Alycia Parks ..very impressed. Silky smooth like Rybakina...power, touch, volley, good serve..moves reasonably well ( room for improvement), even has drop shots .lot of upside, more than Gauff, perhaps! Keep an eye on her..
surpisingly ungracious handshakes from Pliskova and Sakkari, considering Parks is a young player.. wonder why?

It's possibly related to a negative reputation Parks may have earned for herself via the kind of behaviour shown in my post on Dec. 11th.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:46 pm I agree Ferrer and Nalbandian could be in the conversation. Nalbandian did win the most incredible tour finals ever. Ferrer reached a RG final. Plus, of course, he suffered playing his entire career under the yolk of the Roger/Rafa/Nole dictatorship.

Like Ferrer, Berdych also made a Slam final and played his whole career under the yoke of the Big Four. I think Berdych was better than Ferrer. You?

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:20 am We Venus fans knew all about Witt. He was the same man he is now when it comes to his behavior on court. There was the time when they had a huge blow out though and he quit only to come/be brought back. He wanted Venus to quit a few years ago too.

Iga stans wanted her coach to get the nod.

Was it ever confirmed that Venus and David Witt dated while he coached her? I agree that he was very prominent on tour during his time with Venus.

by JTContinental

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:42 am
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 5:27 am Finally got to see the latest US sensation Alycia Parks ..very impressed. Silky smooth like Rybakina...power, touch, volley, good serve..moves reasonably well ( room for improvement), even has drop shots .lot of upside, more than Gauff, perhaps! Keep an eye on her..
surpisingly ungracious handshakes from Pliskova and Sakkari, considering Parks is a young player.. wonder why?

Parks is already 21, so the comparison to Gauff is moot. Also, I've seen her play a bunch, and she lacks consistent control on her groundstrokes, so that will need to be a serious improvement if she wants to compete at the top level.

by ti-amie

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 4:24 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:20 am We Venus fans knew all about Witt. He was the same man he is now when it comes to his behavior on court. There was the time when they had a huge blow out though and he quit only to come/be brought back. He wanted Venus to quit a few years ago too.

Iga stans wanted her coach to get the nod.
Was it ever confirmed that Venus and David Witt dated while he coached her? I agree that he was very prominent on tour during his time with Venus.

As far as I know it was never confirmed.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 4:21 pm ...

Like Ferrer, Berdych also made a Slam final and played his whole career under the yoke of the Big Four. I think Berdych was better than Ferrer. You?

Three very similar careers: Ferrer, Berdych, Tsonga. Berdych/Ferrer H2H: 8-8 (that was surprising). Who was better? I'll chicken out; I really can't tell.
But I would not include any of them in a list of best player EVER to not win a slam. I don't think they achieved enough (Tsonga's game was good enough for a slam. I consider him an underachiever).

by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 4:21 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:46 pm I agree Ferrer and Nalbandian could be in the conversation. Nalbandian did win the most incredible tour finals ever. Ferrer reached a RG final. Plus, of course, he suffered playing his entire career under the yolk of the Roger/Rafa/Nole dictatorship.
Like Ferrer, Berdych also made a Slam final and played his whole career under the yoke of the Big Four. I think Berdych was better than Ferrer. You?

Yes, Berdych may be better than Ferrer,- he actually beat the big 3 from time to time at a major..

by ashkor87

JTContinental wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:31 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:42 am
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 5:27 am Finally got to see the latest US sensation Alycia Parks ..very impressed. Silky smooth like Rybakina...power, touch, volley, good serve..moves reasonably well ( room for improvement), even has drop shots .lot of upside, more than Gauff, perhaps! Keep an eye on her..
surpisingly ungracious handshakes from Pliskova and Sakkari, considering Parks is a young player.. wonder why?
Parks is already 21, so the comparison to Gauff is moot. Also, I've seen her play a bunch, and she lacks consistent control on her groundstrokes, so that will need to be a serious improvement if she wants to compete at the top level.

I haven't seen her that much ..but remember, control is something players develop as they grow older, power and touch is something you cannot learn

by Deuce The following from:
https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/n ... top-coach/

Retired American player and Roger Federer's former coach Paul Annacone has given an insight into the Swiss legend's mindset from the time he was a child.
"Yeah, I think it's almost unfortunate because people thought that it came so easily, he didn't ever have to do anything," Annacone said. "Well, I can tell you first-hand that the pre-season training sessions in Dubai after the US Open with Pierre Paganini and Severin Luthi, it was very strategic."

"He spent a ton of time in the gym, he spent a ton of time on the practice court. And one of the things that I found most interesting about Roger was that the first time I met him, we talked about doing something and I asked him to do it, and he said, ‘Why?’ I said, ‘What do you mean why?’ And he goes, ‘Well, when I was a kid, everyone used to call me the 'Why Man'. I'm happy to do it but you have to tell me why and how does it fit into my game.’ And that mantra lasted from the day he started to the day he stopped as a professional tennis player," he added.

by JTContinental

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:00 am
JTContinental wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:31 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:42 am
surpisingly ungracious handshakes from Pliskova and Sakkari, considering Parks is a young player.. wonder why?
Parks is already 21, so the comparison to Gauff is moot. Also, I've seen her play a bunch, and she lacks consistent control on her groundstrokes, so that will need to be a serious improvement if she wants to compete at the top level.
I haven't seen her that much ..but remember, control is something players develop as they grow older, power and touch is something you cannot learn

For sure, and with her unique serve and volleying abilities, she could give the main tour fits if she can reign it in a little bit.

by ponchi101 I disagree that control is something you develop with age. Hingis came to the tour already with magnificent control. Radwanska too. People may forget but Navs had god-like control on her volleys, always. On the men's side, Roger came already with control while, at the other end, Laconte did not have the same level.
I agree that those three things can be worked at, but improvement is menial after some early age. Wozniacki never had any power to speak of (and her switch to Yonex did not help) and she was never able to develop enough. Sharapova had all the power, but lacked control (for her level) and so on.
The one thing that you can develop is shot selection; that way, if you don't have enough control, your shots will land in because the margin of error was better.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:36 pm I disagree that control is something you develop with age. Hingis came to the tour already with magnificent control. Radwanska too. People may forget but Navs had god-like control on her volleys, always. On the men's side, Roger came already with control while, at the other end, Laconte did not have the same level.
I agree that those three things can be worked at, but improvement is menial after some early age. Wozniacki never had any power to speak of (and her switch to Yonex did not help) and she was never able to develop enough. Sharapova had all the power, but lacked control (for her level) and so on.
The one thing that you can develop is shot selection; that way, if you don't have enough control, your shots will land in because the margin of error was better.

Yes, it varies a lot ..

by ti-amie Tsitsipas searching for “the flow” as he chases first Grand Slam title
The Greek says “letting go” is the secret to playing his best tennis

Stefanos Tsitsipas, US Open 2022 | © Zuma / Panoramic

Simon Cambers
December 14, 2022
Stefanos Tsitsipas reached seven finals in 2022, winning two of them as he finished in the top 10 for the fourth year in a row, cementing his place as one of the biggest threats to win the sport’s biggest titles.

The Greek has been to one Grand Slam final, the 2021 French Open final, when he was two sets up against Novak Djokovic before going down in five.

With Carlos Alcaraz having hit No 1 at 19, Tsitsipas will be feeling the heat from the younger brigade, including Holger Rune, but the 24-year-old says he has learned how to get the best out of himself on the big occasions; by getting out of his own way.

One of the more thoughtful players on the Tour, Tsitsipas admits he’s been too negative at times. But when he gets it right, like he did in beating Rafael Nadal in the quarter-finals in Australia in 2021 – two years after being hammered by the same man in the semi-finals – he found the equilibrium he needed to allow himself to play his best.

“After going two sets down, I understood what I was doing wrong,” Tsitsipas said, in an interview with RedBull.com. “I remember coming to an agreement with myself, saying, “OK, you’re going to become patient. You’re going to wait. You’re going to spend every single minute on the court enjoying the play and just make it a fun game. It turned out to be one of the best comebacks in my career so far.”

TSITSIPAS: “YOU’RE PLAYING WITH YOUR SOUL”
Tsitsipas said he felt himself in the zone, the state of mind every player tries to find, when the mind does not get in the body’s way.

“It felt like I was in a cage and someone decided to unlock it. I suddenly felt free. Every decision I went for felt right. It’s what I like to call flow. I was able to reach that flow by decreasing my expectations. It was a pure fight. It was all mental. It was excruciating, physically and mentally – I don’t think I’ve ever played at such high focus levels for so long. Everything felt like it made sense. It’s like a drug when you’re able to experience it – it brings you to another level. You’re not playing with your skill any more, you’re playing with your soul.”

Tsitsipas said he had asked his mental coach how to find that state more regularly. “The answer, surprisingly, is that you just have to let go,” he said. “You can’t think you want to be in the flow state, or you’ll never reach it. It happens gradually, it builds up. It’s a climax you reach when you stop overthinking and just act, using more of your instinct.”

https://www.tennismajors.com/atp/tsitsi ... 49346.html

by Deuce ^ Yes - a slight variation on the theory that 'playing unconscious' (i.e. - NOT THINKING) is the most efficient way to make use of one's natural ability.

by ponchi101 Yes. He is correct. He has to "Let go".
As in "Let go" of your father and mother. Leave them home. Next year, starting at the Australian, buy them tickets to Nepal before you get there.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Yep. I say they are also very much right.
Especially Coric. I remember when he was touted as the next big one. Then, all those injuries.

by ti-amie

by Deuce That Netflix thing ^ will very likely be a load of sensationalized horse dung. That's what it has been in their series on Formula 1 car racing - a lot of BS sensationalism, manipulations (taking drivers' radio messages from one race and making it look like it's from a different race in order to create artificial drama and animosity between drivers, etc). A few drivers and 'team principles' were quite critical of the series and refused to participate.

So... I definitely wouldn't call this type of thing a 'documentary'. Documentaries are mature and serious. These Netflix things seem to be aimed mostly at the typical 14 to 20 year old immature mentality that is impressed with sensationalism.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:30 pm Yes. He is correct. He has to "Let go".
As in "Let go" of your father and mother. Leave them home. Next year, starting at the Australian, buy them tickets to Nepal before you get there.

He he

by ti-amie

Rafa and Ons are there though...

Then again one wag noted that people know who those three are and that is sad.

by ti-amie

I wonder who her assigned agent will be? Jill?

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Indeed. For example, Evert's 22 BIG titles are her 18 Slams and her WTA Finals. She retired in 1989, so had no chance to get any WTA1000's. BJK is totally absent, M. Court's 11 titles are her 11 Slams in the Open era.

by Suliso Agree. This is a nonsense list which intentionally leaves out the big stars of 70-ties and 80-ties.

by ashkor87 Ace leaders this year are Garcia among the women, and, of course, Isner for the men - what is astonishing is how close FAA is to Isner, only 5 aces behind him! 895 versus 890.. Kyrgios is at #5 ..
somehow, had never thought of Garcia as a big server, but she is, I guess. Rybakina is just a tad behind her, mostly because she hasnt played as many matches, but more than 100 clear of #3!

by ponchi101 Garcia gets her aces via placement. It is a sweet motion, and she fools her opponents a lot.
Keeping in mind the differences: she is a server in the mold of Pete; sure, she has power and speed, but she also has disguise.

by dryrunguy

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:24 pm Ace leaders this year are Garcia among the women, and, of course, Isner for the men - what is astonishing is how close FAA is to Isner, only 5 aces behind him! 895 versus 890.. Kyrgios is at #5 ..
somehow, had never thought of Garcia as a big server, but she is, I guess. Rybakina is just a tad behind her, mostly because she hasnt played as many matches, but more than 100 clear of #3!

Until this year, Garcia's serve always had a significant hitch. I'm not sure precisely when she fixed it, but in the span of a fairly short period of time, she turned a major liability into a major weapon. I respect that a lot because you don't see such a profound transformation for the better in one stroke too often.

by ponchi101

dryrunguy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:29 pm ..

Until this year, Garcia's serve always had a significant hitch. I'm not sure precisely when she fixed it, but in the span of a fairly short period of time, she turned a major liability into a major weapon. I respect that a lot because you don't see such a profound transformation for the better in one stroke too often.

I don't recall that. Then again, I get to watch so little WTA that I would not know.
But this year, I saw her at least three times, and the serve was a good stroke. So, as you say, a major improvement.

by ashkor87

dryrunguy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:29 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:24 pm Ace leaders this year are Garcia among the women, and, of course, Isner for the men - what is astonishing is how close FAA is to Isner, only 5 aces behind him! 895 versus 890.. Kyrgios is at #5 ..
somehow, had never thought of Garcia as a big server, but she is, I guess. Rybakina is just a tad behind her, mostly because she hasnt played as many matches, but more than 100 clear of #3!
Until this year, Garcia's serve always had a significant hitch. I'm not sure precisely when she fixed it, but in the span of a fairly short period of time, she turned a major liability into a major weapon. I respect that a lot because you don't see such a profound transformation for the better in one stroke too often.

I did not follow Garcia much so I don't know but I will go back and check YouTube ...it would be interesting to see when the improvement began...she was already ace leader by Wimbledon so must have been quite early in the year, or even last year

by dryrunguy

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:01 am
dryrunguy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:29 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:24 pm Ace leaders this year are Garcia among the women, and, of course, Isner for the men - what is astonishing is how close FAA is to Isner, only 5 aces behind him! 895 versus 890.. Kyrgios is at #5 ..
somehow, had never thought of Garcia as a big server, but she is, I guess. Rybakina is just a tad behind her, mostly because she hasnt played as many matches, but more than 100 clear of #3!
Until this year, Garcia's serve always had a significant hitch. I'm not sure precisely when she fixed it, but in the span of a fairly short period of time, she turned a major liability into a major weapon. I respect that a lot because you don't see such a profound transformation for the better in one stroke too often.
I did not follow Garcia much so I don't know but I will go back and check YouTube ...it would be interesting to see when the improvement began...she was already ace leader by Wimbledon so must have been quite early in the year, or even last year

It won't take you long to see the difference. It's night and day.

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:24 pm Ace leaders this year are Garcia among the women, and, of course, Isner for the men - what is astonishing is how close FAA is to Isner, only 5 aces behind him! 895 versus 890.. Kyrgios is at #5 ..
somehow, had never thought of Garcia as a big server, but she is, I guess. Rybakina is just a tad behind her, mostly because she hasnt played as many matches, but more than 100 clear of #3!

Isner played 40 matches. FAA played 81. Isner has twice as many aces per set. He's #1 in that category and FAA is #9. FWIW...

by ponchi101 Context, context, context. Indeed, those numbers matter.
Remember that Roger is very high up the list of aces. Because he had a very good serve (let's not forget about that) AND he played a lot of matches. So the ACE leader category comes with a long explanation.

by Deuce Isner's sets tend to include more games than the sets that others play, because every set that Isner plays goes to a tiebreak

.
(And the Wimbledon match vs. Mahut certainly helped to pad Isner's career aces statistic!)

by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:12 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:24 pm Ace leaders this year are Garcia among the women, and, of course, Isner for the men - what is astonishing is how close FAA is to Isner, only 5 aces behind him! 895 versus 890.. Kyrgios is at #5 ..
somehow, had never thought of Garcia as a big server, but she is, I guess. Rybakina is just a tad behind her, mostly because she hasnt played as many matches, but more than 100 clear of #3!
Isner played 40 matches. FAA played 81. Isner has twice as many aces per set. He's #1 in that category and FAA is #9. FWIW...

you are right, one should not be astonished at how close FAA is to Isner, given that he played twice as many matches- but I do think it is amazing that FAA is at #2, ahead of Kyrgios, Hurkacz and so on...

by ponchi101 He is a good server. Good power and control. I got to see him a few times during his fall streak, and he was hitting his corners.

by Deuce And now for the match we've been waiting all year for...

It's another gimmick, of course... but at least the organizers don't seem to take it very seriously, and realize that it's just a fun thing to do for the players to get a few swings in before the serious stuff starts...

What were they thinking with the court colour, though?! Surely they realize that video is kind of a popular thing today...
If they're going to use that colour of court, the least they could have done was use black balls...

by ashkor87 watching the WTL .. since there is no other tennis happening right now! The yellow court is an eyesore, and the ball is practically invisible.. Rybakina firing on all cylinders beating everyone - Garcia, Swiatek, Sabalenka.. Thiem and Zverev doing well too, nice to see them back from injury... even in an exhibition..

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 7:44 am watching the WTL .. since there is no other tennis happening right now! The yellow court is an eyesore, and the ball is practically invisible.. Rybakina firing on all cylinders beating everyone - Garcia, Swiatek, Sabalenka.. Thiem and Zverev doing well too, nice to see them back from injury... even in an exhibition..

An exo with a little meaning for those two. They need to get some mileage before the start of the Aussie, so this can be really good practice. As opposed to just "real practice", this can be a bit more challenging.
I bet you are happy Rybakina is playing well. I hope she will be a factor next year.

by ashkor87 https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/wh ... tend-for-m

My immediate reaction is - who cares,? There hasn't been a serious male contender from the US since Roddick. Women is a different story..it would be interesting to explore why that is ..could it really be just the Williams effect? Thoughts?

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 11:44 am ...

My immediate reaction is - who cares,? There hasn't been a serious male contender from the US since Roddick. Women is a different story..it would be interesting to explore why that is ..could it really be just the Williams effect? Thoughts?

Opportunities.
In the USA, if you want to become rich through sports, you have several options: MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, MLS, PGA, and assorted miscellaneous other sports. FOR MEN. For the women, you are looking at a much narrower scope of opportunities: WTA or PGA. So, a considerable number of top female athletes go for tennis.
We have a few examples. The story, as I know it, is that indeed Richard Williams started both girls thinking about the money. Yuri Sharapov was open about that, as was Piotr Wozniacki. For the men, it is actually a bad choice. There are 100 top 100 players (of, course, by definition), which are the ones making the big money. FOR THE WORLD. That is nothing compared to the millionaires in the NBA, NFL and MLB.
I just looked at the 100th player in the world. It is Alejandro Tabilo. CAREER prize money: $978,567, (2022: $526,079). That is less than what an NBA player that spends the season on the bench makes.

It boils down to that. The men in the USA have many more interesting possibilities. Tennis is not one. So they are not going to come to tennis.
For the world: I would have no idea how many athletes choose the sport for the masses: football. Add to that how expensive it is to raise a tennis champion, and you see where that is going.

by ashkor87 Very good points!

by Suliso That old argument... Not that it's entirely wrong, but tennis not #1 path for men anywhere really. Nor was it when Pete and Andre were top players.

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:41 pm That old argument... Not that it's entirely wrong, but tennis not #1 path for men anywhere really. Nor was it when Pete and Andre were top players.

Sure. It is not a path to richness for anybody.
And another reason is not that the USA is not producing top players; it is that Europe caught up in wealth and resources, and more players are coming from there.
The thought that the GOAT could/would come from a small country like Serbia was unthinkable a few decades ago. Then, it was only possible from the USA, Australia and maybe the UK and France. Now, we have great players from Norway, Greece, several from Russia, and who knows if the Danes will be very proud of Rude soon enough.

by ti-amie I will also say that the European men were not afraid to think outside of the box created by the Slam Countries. Specifically the US approach to tennis didn't allow for innovation and if your game was even slightly outside of their definition of how tennis should be played you disappeared into the ether.

Donald Young should've modeled his game more along the lines of Davydenko than Sampras especially based on his size. The fact that US players are now hiring coaches from Europe says it all.

by ashkor87 Yes, big name coaches who tried to mould everyone into a certain style of play...didn't happen in other countries, so far as I know...

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 It's just a conversation.
What good is it to be a fan of a sport if you don't get to talk about the nuances of it? I was and always will be a fan of Pete, and I thought he had the GOAT conversation locked between him and Laver. Them Roger came along, and then Rafa, and I believe Novak is the GOAT. And I am not his fan.
It takes nothing away from my enjoyment and love for the game.

by Deuce I can see some people deriving enjoyment from debating who is/was the best player of a particular era; the best player among players who played against each other... but I don't usually involve myself in such debates because I feel that even in this comparison, there are too many variables involved.

But picking the greatest player of all time is to me a completely and utterly useless exercize because there are SO MANY differences between eras that they are entirely incomparable.
So... in short, I agree with the perspective Rune seems to be expressing.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Good for him.
Now go and win the Aussie.

by Suliso Great for FAA, but doesn't it kind of indicate lack of success last year by other Canadian athletes? Other than Davis Cup Felix didn't really win anything significant.

by Suliso Osama and Muguruza are the only two notable female players not signed up to play anywhere before AO. Do we know why and whether we can expect them at AO anyway?

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:03 pm Great for FAA, but doesn't it kind of indicate lack of success last year by other Canadian athletes? Other than Davis Cup Felix didn't really win anything significant.

But he did get into the top ten, which is an accomplishment.
You and I had him winning the ATP Finals and he disappointed. But he was moving forward.
About Osaka, who knows what she is up to. But I suspect that Mugu is just slowly fading away from the sport. I think she is satisfied with what she has done. She knows she will forever be famous in Spain, no pressure anywhere.

by Suliso

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:06 am
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:03 pm Great for FAA, but doesn't it kind of indicate lack of success last year by other Canadian athletes? Other than Davis Cup Felix didn't really win anything significant.
But he did get into the top ten, which is an accomplishment.
You and I had him winning the ATP Finals and he disappointed. But he was moving forward.

Yes of course, but isn't Canada having some other stars in other sports who became World and/or Olympic champions this year? Or maybe someone instrumental in winning a Stanley Cup? FAA had a breakout season, but he'd be nowhere near top athlete in quite a few countries.

by ptmcmahon You will hardly ever see a NHL player win mainly for helping his team win the Stanley Cup... it's a team sport and usually there's at least 10 of the 20 active players who are Canadian.

If a Canadian player wins it it's for having a great overall season. Connor MacDavid did lead the league in scoring, but not by a lot. There's only been one hockey player winning award in last 12 years, and it was Carey Price the year he was so good he won league MVP, which goalies don't usually do. And he did NOT lead my Habs to the Stanley Cup that year!

Alphonso Davies, who played at Bayern Munich and was the star of the World Cup team and scorer of our first ever World Cup Goal, was second. He probably would've been my pick.

And... checking who was third... it was Cole Makar, defensemen on Colorado. Who won the Conn Smythe for MVP of the playoffs ... helping his team to win the Stanley Cup. Let me wipe the egg of my face now.

I will say FAA winning this year looks a lot better than when Shapovalov won in 2017 - without even making a final. FAA did have four titles which is pretty good.

by Deuce Yes... there are many fine Canadian athletes playing team sports, but, as pt says, it's much more difficult to get individual recognition for this award in a team sport than it is in an individual sport.

Also, with players like McDavid, etc., they are expected to do great things - they have done great things throughout their careers, going back to when they were 6 year old kids. So when they do great things, it was completely expected, and so it really isn't noteworthy.
For someone like Felix, who has been rather stagnant on the ATP tour for a few years, this past year was a significant improvement on that, and so it was more noticeable.

So, in the end, I think the award is less about 'who had the greatest year', and more about 'who improved the most at a high level' - because the latter gets you more noticed.
Keep in mind that we're mostly talking about well known sports (if a Canadian won the World Championship of darts, for example, I doubt they'd win this award).

by dave g I don't know where to put this, so I am putting it here.

While preparing my AMITS team, I noticed a bunch of ATP players scheduled to play more than one tournament the first week.
Anyone know what is going on? Here is my list of players scheduled for more than one tournament:

Holger Rune, Sebastian Baez, Jenson Brooksby, Alex Molcan, Pedro Cachin, Jaume Munar, Marcos Giron, Pedro Martinez, Quentin Halys, Constant Lestienne

I found the problem: the WTA Auckland is played the first week, while the ATP Auckland is played the second week.

by ashkor87

Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:31 pm Osama and Muguruza are the only two notable female players not signed up to play anywhere before AO. Do we know why and whether we can expect them at AO anyway?

They are both entered in the AO, good sign..

by ashkor87 Rafael Nadal's son is also named Rafael Nadal.. or at least Rafael Nadal Perrello.. the tennis world must be trembling at the thought of two Rafael Nadals walking the earth!

by skatingfan

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 31, 2022 4:12 am Rafael Nadal's son is also named Rafael Nadal.. or at least Rafael Nadal Perrello.. the tennis world must be trembling at the thought of two Rafael Nadals walking the earth!

Well the second one can't walk yet, so the world is safe for now.

by ponchi101 And the chances of becoming a great player when you are the offspring of a great player are super slim. Regression to the mean kicks in.
He will go and be successful in some other field.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 That's still a better FH volley than mine...

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... ing-status

Oh oh!

by Suliso Naomi's playing days might be coming to an end. Maybe temporarily, maybe not...

by ponchi101 She certainly does not seem dedicated to the sport anymore. And it is not as if the Aussie has not been a successful tournament for her.
I don't think she would retire and later return. There is something about playing that is putting her off.

by ashkor87 Meanwhile, Sabalenka seems to be really getting her act together! Hope it lasts..she is io a break against Vondrousova right now

by ponchi101 I hope she will do well at the Aussie. I say Swiatek will win, but Aryna may be in play.
MAY BE. We still need to see.

by Suliso Small, largely irrelevant tournaments have not been Sabalenka's issue before. It's when it counts is when she falters.

by ashkor87 https://www.wtatennis.com/news/3011886/ ... mpionships

The best female player ever from India...maybe best period.
She has been an inspiration to do many young women ..

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 It is pretty difficult to make Sloane look bad in anything, but the Orange Kit:

Gorgeous.

by JTContinental Free People makes good stuff

by JTContinental Mardy Fish is out as Davis Cup captain by "mutual agreement"

by ponchi101 Years ago, when he retired, I said that he would be both a very good coach, and a good DC captain.
It seems I was very wrong. Nobody has picked him as a coach, and now this. Maybe he doesn't like that position.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:24 pm Years ago, when he retired, I said that he would be both a very good coach, and a good DC captain.
It seems I was very wrong. Nobody has picked him as a coach, and now this. Maybe he doesn't like that position.

If his decision making re the US Davis Cup team selection is any indication he's not cut out for a coaching job.

by ti-amie So they're calling Pegula "JPeg" now?

by ashkor87

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:12 pm https://www.wtatennis.com/news/3011886/ ... mpionships

The best female player ever from India...maybe best period.
She has been an inspiration to do many young women ..

Not only is she a Muslim woman, which is hard enough, but she is married to a Pakistani, that too, to the captain of the Pak cricket team! Challenge on top of challenge...she has handled them all so gracefully...

by ashkor87 Because most matches other than Grand Slams are not televised where I live, I have to rely on YouTube highlights..they are so misleading, they will keep showing winner after winner from one player when it is actually the other player who won..and they hardly ever show the critical turning points ..where someone comes back from 5-1 down, for instance.
Not surprisingly, the reason for all this is the highlights videos are mostly created by bots. Now AI is a wonderful thing, but bots clearly cannot know anything about tennis..they are programmed, apparently, to pick up the audience reaction, the noise in the stands, to determine which point to include.

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:51 am ...
Not surprisingly, the reason for all this is the highlights videos are mostly created by bots. Now AI is a wonderful thing, but bots clearly cannot know anything about tennis..they are programmed, apparently, to pick up the audience reaction, the noise in the stands, to determine which point to include.

I would prefer regular, old fashion Natural Intelligence

. Having a tennis fan cut the highlights can't be that hard.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:22 am
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:51 am ...
Not surprisingly, the reason for all this is the highlights videos are mostly created by bots. Now AI is a wonderful thing, but bots clearly cannot know anything about tennis..they are programmed, apparently, to pick up the audience reaction, the noise in the stands, to determine which point to include.
I would prefer regular, old fashion Natural Intelligence . Having a tennis fan cut the highlights can't be that hard.

Well, it would be expensive and not scalable...

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 So they will try again.
What are they offering that the ATP and WTA don't?

by Deuce Badosa has ONCE AGAIN quit a tournament without losing... she withdrew from this tournament before her semi-final match with Kasatkina in Adelaide.

Given the ridiculous frequency of Badosa's in-match retirements and in-tournament withdrawals, which shows a lack of respect for the sport and for the fans, it's time to give her what she obviously wants - time away from the courts...
It's time to suspend her for a few months.

The number of retirements/withdrawald from Badosa has been mentioned in this forum before.
I got the list below from a post in another tennis forum, which states that its source is 'tennis abstract'. It also states that the majority of Badosa's retirements occurred when she was behind in the match. The numbers are up to last May (2022). I assume they are correct (although Andreescu is conspicuously absent from the list)...

Career Retirements -

Badosa: 25
Muguruza: 15
Bencic: 12
Cornet: 10
Jabeur: 9
Ostapenko: 8
Collins: 8
Raducanu: 8
Sakkari: 7
Yastremska: 5
Kasatkina: 5
Kontaveit: 5
Barty: 4
Rybakina: 4
Pegula: 3
Pliskova: 1
Swiatek: 1
Sabalenka: 0
Fernandez: 0
Kostyuk: 0
Gauff: 0

And Badosa's WTA career has been shorter thus far than that of some of the other players on the list.

by Fastbackss Whilst I don't condone quitting, and despite this year being a bit of an outlier on the ATP side with regard to strength of field, every year I remain befuddled as to why the WTA has a tournament of significance (this year a 500) the week before the Open. The ATP doesn't and more players (typically) rest.
If I was a player that had to make a chance to make a run in the Slam, I imagine my team would be encouraging me to watch my "exertion level" leading up to it.

by ponchi101 My count for Badosa's retirements is 27. And, she has even retired in qualies (in the past).
And I counted them manually.

Still, she is an outlier. So, maybe we are jumping the gun for ALL players. Perhaps no changes are needed; it's just her.

by dryrunguy

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 5:15 pm My count for Badosa's retirements is 27. And, she has even retired in qualies (in the past).
And I counted them manually.

Still, she is an outlier. So, maybe we are jumping the gun for ALL players. Perhaps no changes are needed; it's just her.

This post didn't age well.

by ponchi101

dryrunguy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:06 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 5:15 pm My count for Badosa's retirements is 27. And, she has even retired in qualies (in the past).
And I counted them manually.

Still, she is an outlier. So, maybe we are jumping the gun for ALL players. Perhaps no changes are needed; it's just her.
This post didn't age well.

What else has happened? We know about Kudermetova (she retired also) but, anybody else?

by JazzNU I might be alone in this thinking but Badosa's retirement this time is better to me. After a tough match against Haddad Maia and playing three days in a row and then giving a walkover, not quitting mid match because she's losing feels like an improvement. She said she felt like she may have tweaked something and was hoping to be better in time for the AO, now that part may be a line, but it's at least more believable and a more customary decisions we see from plenty of players to not risk anything, they got in their playing time and are going to prep for the GS. So many of her retirements are a better version of a Yastremska move that this feels like a step in the right direction. One can only hope she's gotten word that she needs to knock that ish off.

by JazzNU

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:22 am Whilst I don't condone quitting, and despite this year being a bit of an outlier on the ATP side with regard to strength of field, every year I remain befuddled as to why the WTA has a tournament of significance (this year a 500) the week before the Open. The ATP doesn't and more players (typically) rest.
If I was a player that had to make a chance to make a run in the Slam, I imagine my team would be encouraging me to watch my "exertion level" leading up to it.

Australia loves tennis and doesn't limit that to men's tennis like many places do. They have tournaments and sponsors willing to host a Premier/500 level tournament and that's great. They've had some years where they have back to back weeks of Premier tournaments heading into the Aussie Open. There's a limited playing window because they are coming off the break.

Most times tennis journalists and fans do nothing but rag on the WTA for not being able to get a 500 tournament and laughing at the draws and now it's a bad thing that they are able to get more than one good tournament that can demand a decent draw? Yeah, it's right before a GS, but should they be demanding players make less money and tell them to make it a 250? No one is is forced to play here, if they want to skip and prep for AO, they can, and some do. For the rest, it's a great opportunity to start off their year.

I'm not saying I don't understand your point. But misogyny is real and the ATP can very likely get whatever 500 levels it wants in the next few months and not have to worry about what country the tournament is in and whether or not there are local sponsors there that see value in hosting that level.

by JazzNU Didn't see it mentioned in the places I expected, so assuming it hasn't been posted yet - Break Point, in the vein of Drive to Survive that helped with increasing the popularity of F1, premiered today on Netflix. What I've seen mentioned says Netflix and Netflix UK, so I'm not completely clear on Canada, but I saw Canadian tennis accounts Tweeting stuff about it, so I think it's out for you too? Report back if any of our Canadian members can confirm this for any that are interested in watching.

by dryrunguy

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:09 pm
dryrunguy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:06 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 5:15 pm My count for Badosa's retirements is 27. And, she has even retired in qualies (in the past).
And I counted them manually.

Still, she is an outlier. So, maybe we are jumping the gun for ALL players. Perhaps no changes are needed; it's just her.
This post didn't age well.
What else has happened? We know about Kudermetova (she retired also) but, anybody else?

Probably my bad. But given the timing, I assumed you were not yet aware of Kudermetova's withdrawl from the final. I may have missed some posts.

by ponchi101

dryrunguy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:25 am ---

Probably my bad. But given the timing, I assumed you were not yet aware of Kudermetova's withdrawl from the final. I may have missed some posts.

Ah, the intricacies of modern comms. Yes, Kudermetova's withdrawal was already in my mind when I wrote my post.
Let'scarry on

by ti-amie

Does Ben have a point here?

by ponchi101 Has she played like a Wimbledon champion since her victory there? Zero tournaments won, and 16-11 record.
I don't know how much of a draw she is.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:13 am
Does Ben have a point here?

They seem to want to make me feel bad for Lena, and it's just not going to happen. She's Russian masquerading as a Kazakhstani player that got to play Wimbledon. It's more than Aryna and Liudmila got to do so I'm not going to feel bad about her lack of points when I've seen her pre-war posting from Moscow like any other Russian player (except for Samsonova, who is more associated with Italy) and know she was there during the lockdown days of the pandemic, again, like any other Russian player.

They can keep posting about it and I'm going to stay not feeling bad for her. I didn't want a ban on players and this was part of the reason. No one should be surprised she's not setting the tennis world on fire popularity-wise even with winning Wimbledon, I've seen Pliskova be more expressive. I'm sure if her court is jam packed, they'll upgrade her court assignment in Round 2.

by Suliso Indeed, she's as much Kazakh as I am.

by ti-amie

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:07 pm

So she's not retiring for commentating? She hasn't played in six years, and will be 40 in April so I don't see a competitive career comeback in the future. I had completely forgotten that Hantuchova has a career Grand Slam in mixed doubles.

by Deuce Maybe she'll form a doubles team with Clijsters...
Which would last about a month

.

But, hey - whatever floats her boat, huh?

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:07 pm

Since this didn't make a bit of sense to me I just checked her IG. She posted on her Stories. Her Twitter has been hacked and she is not planning a comeback.

by ti-amie I think I like JPeg

by ptmcmahon Definition of legendary getting pretty loose

by Deuce

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:37 pm Definition of legendary getting pretty loose

As is the definition/use of 'epic', 'awesome', etc., etc., as everyone strives to bring attention to their comments and to themselves.
People try to stand out from the crowd by doing whatever is popular at the moment. This, of course, is contradictory...

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:37 pm Definition of legendary getting pretty loose

She should have said "Literally legendary".

by Owendonovan

Deuce wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:57 pm
ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:37 pm Definition of legendary getting pretty loose
As is the definition/use of 'epic', 'awesome', etc., etc., as everyone strives to bring attention to their comments and to themselves.
People try to stand out from the crowd by doing whatever is popular at the moment. This, of course, is contradictory...

I'm so turned off to superlative overusage. Compare a tweet to say, Babe Ruth as legendary, seems silly. I think the normal person sees something amazing just a handful of times in their life. People are unique, few are special. Performing something as expected isn't incredible. Literally means literally, not figuratively.

by ptmcmahon Except Webster had to change the dictionary because of people misusing words. Literally now can also be defined as 'figuratively" ... and I hate it too

One silly thing I do with my friends sometimes now is try to intentionally misuse the word figuratively instead.

by ponchi101

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:13 am Except Webster had to change the dictionary because of people misusing words. Literally now can also be defined as 'figuratively" ... and I hate it too

One silly thing I do with my friends sometimes now is try to intentionally misuse the word figuratively instead.

I will join you

by ptmcmahon I hope your were figuratively clapping when you did that and not literally!

by ponchi101 I was

It is that I hate that too. Last year, my niece was telling me some problem she had, and said "I literally died". I laughed but wondered: has it really gone that far?
It has. It is terrible.

by ptmcmahon When even the dictionary gives up you know it's bad!

by JazzNU

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:13 am Except Webster had to change the dictionary because of people misusing words. Literally now can also be defined as 'figuratively" ... and I hate it too

Had no idea they did that. Doesn't make even a little bit of actual sense.

by ptmcmahon The literal (he he) definition M-W added was "used to emphasize the truth and accuracy of a statement or description"

It's the old "if you can't beat em, join em."

by Deuce

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:17 pm The literal (he he) definition M-W added was "used to emphasize the truth and accuracy of a statement or description"

It's the old "if you can't beat em, join em."

And there's far too much of that ^ going on.
Allowing stupidity to win is tragic.

by ti-amie

by Deuce Autographs have got to be the most useless and meaningless thing on the planet...
Even as a kid, I never understood the attraction of a person scribbling something on a piece of paper, or on a hat, or shirt, etc. What in god's name is the value of that?
In an environment like post-match, they don't even write their name anymore - they simply and literally - yes literally - scribble something incomprehensible, and do this one after another after another...

Of course, capitalism and greed has turned autographs into a for profit business - which is pathetic in my view - but beyond the questionable monetary value, it's a scribble.
That people somehow feel a 'connection' to the person scribbling after they scribble is simply illusionary. There is no personal interaction. Most of the time, there isn't even eye contact. It's as impersonal an interaction as can be.
As far as 'proving' something - it proves only that you were physically near enough to the person for him/her to scribble on your paper. So what? It's so superficial.

I've asked for exactly one autograph in my life - Mario Andretti. I was about 14 years old, and he was walking past me at a grand prix and I asked him to sign something - which he did. I remember looking at his signature and thinking to myself "Now what in hell is this good for?"
I have a musician friend who is quite well known, and I was talking with him as he was signing - scribbling - post card type things in advance of a concert where they would be given out (similar to Tsitsipas above). His hand was getting tired, he said. I jokingly asked him if he wants me to take over the scribbling for a bit. I didn't do it - but I could have, and no-one would have known.
I have sat with this musician, selling his CDs while he scribbles on them for the people lined up - and I don't understand it at all. It's the obsession with 'celebrity' - when people so much as get an autograph - a scribble - from a 'famous person', they behave as if they've just had a three hour conversation with Jesus Christ himself!
It's very sad.

Now, I can understand the interest in actually talking with a favourite player (or musician, etc.), and having an actual interaction where something of value is mutually exchanged. We see these people on TV or wherever, and we can even admire what they do... And so getting the opportunity to talk with them and maybe gain some insight into something you're interested in has value.
I have spoken with numerous pro tennis players and coaches, and have even gotten to know a few, and it's enjoyable to talk with them or joke with them about something relevant. I almost always get the sense that they appreciate that I'm not wanting a simple, superficial thing like a scribble or a 'selfie' with them. At the same time, it's not a big deal.

But seeing people be thrilled when a player scribbles something quickly on a piece of paper or a hat, etc. is worrisome... If kids are thrilled by this non-interaction of getting a scribble which literally takes 3 seconds, it teaches them to place huge value on superficial things and on 'celebrity'; if adults are thrilled with getting a scribble, it is downright pathetic.

by atlpam

Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:34 pm Autographs have got to be the most useless and meaningless thing on the planet...
Even as a kid, I never understood the attraction of a person scribbling something on a piece of paper, or on a hat, or shirt, etc. What in god's name is the value of that?
In an environment like post-match, they don't even write their name anymore - they simply and literally - yes literally - scribble something incomprehensible, and do this one after another after another...

Of course, capitalism and greed has turned autographs into a for profit business - which is pathetic in my view - but beyond the questionable monetary value, it's a scribble.
That people somehow feel a 'connection' to the person scribbling after they scribble is simply illusionary. There is no personal interaction. Most of the time, there isn't even eye contact. It's as impersonal an interaction as can be.
As far as 'proving' something - it proves only that you were physically near enough to the person for him/her to scribble on your paper. So what? It's so superficial.

I've asked for exactly one autograph in my life - Mario Andretti. I was about 14 years old, and he was walking past me at a grand prix and I asked him to sign something - which he did. I remember looking at his signature and thinking to myself "Now what in hell is this good for?"
I have a musician friend who is quite well known, and I was talking with him as he was signing - scribbling - post card type things in advance of a concert where they would be given out (similar to Tsitsipas above). His hand was getting tired, he said. I jokingly asked him if he wants me to take over the scribbling for a bit. I didn't do it - but I could have, and no-one would have known.
I have sat with this musician, selling his CDs while he scribbles on them for the people lined up - and I don't understand it at all. It's the obsession with 'celebrity' - when people so much as get an autograph - a scribble - from a 'famous person', they behave as if they've just had a three hour conversation with Jesus Christ himself!
It's very sad.

Now, I can understand the interest in actually talking with a favourite player (or musician, etc.), and having an actual interaction where something of value is mutually exchanged. We see these people on TV or wherever, and we can even admire what they do... And so getting the opportunity to talk with them and maybe gain some insight into something you're interested in has value.
I have spoken with numerous pro tennis players and coaches, and have even gotten to know a few, and it's enjoyable to talk with them or joke with them about something relevant. I almost always get the sense that they appreciate that I'm not wanting a simple, superficial thing like a scribble or a 'selfie' with them. At the same time, it's not a big deal.

But seeing people be thrilled when a player scribbles something quickly on a piece of paper or a hat, etc. is worrisome... If kids are thrilled by this non-interaction of getting a scribble which literally takes 3 seconds, it teaches them to place huge value on superficial things and on 'celebrity'; if adults are thrilled with getting a scribble, it is downright pathetic.

I have to agree. We have a hat signed by Bob & Mike Bryan at a Davis Cup match - when we moved I couldn’t figure out why I kept it (or what to do with it). My son did not take it when he moved out. At least the picture of my son and I with the brothers provides a nice memory of our Davis Cup family weekend.

When I was a teenager, I was skiing with a friend at Stratton while a World Cup event was going on. Ingemar Stenmark autographed a napkin in the lodge cafeteria - no idea what happened to that.

by JazzNU

by ti-amie I don't know about Rafa but that scene triggers my anxiety

by ponchi101 Why? The water bottles are perfectly ordered and aligned...

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:17 am Why? The water bottles are perfectly ordered and aligned...

I think you need to look again.

by ashkor87 It is simply too hot in Melbourne at this time of year...should consider exchanging slots with the USO ...

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:45 am It is simply too hot in Melbourne at this time of year...should consider exchanging slots with the USO ...

Trade places with the USA hard court circuit. You can play in Miami in January. Then go to IW. THEN go to AUS/NZ. Play the Aussie in late Feb/March. Then return to Europe.
Will never happen.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 https://sports.ndtv.com/australian-open ... _topscroll

by nelslus

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:24 am https://sports.ndtv.com/australian-open ... _topscroll

Sania's speech was beautiful and heartbreaking. I was truly impressed with the lovely speeches from all four mixed finals players.

by Deuce

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:24 am https://sports.ndtv.com/australian-open ... _topscroll

Bravo, Sania, on an admirable career.

by JazzNU

by ponchi101 Ashkor will tell us, but she will be a certain HOF in India. That was a fine career.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:05 pm Ashkor will tell us, but she will be a certain HOF in India. That was a fine career.

Of course but HOF is a uniquely American idea..
She has already been awarded the Padma Bhushan, the third highest civilian award several years ago, and the highest award for sports khel ratna, which roughly translates to jewel of sports.. she .will probably get the next level soon..Padma Vibhushan ...

by ti-amie This was a subtext to the Djokovic run to the Final.

Stefanos clapped back

by ponchi101 He's gonna make you remember tonight...

by ti-amie

I've been saying for years now that the men in their 20's are unable to think their way through five sets (excluding Carlitos). I just hope once the men who could are retired they don't make the Slams best of three.

by Deuce The men's final has traditionally been the highlighted match of the Majors, and is thus played last.
But the women's final is sometimes the better, or more enjoyable/entertaining match.

As such, I propose that the Majors alternate which match is played as the last match - the 'grande finale' - of the tournament.
For example, in the first year of implementation, the Aussie Open and Wimbledon could have the women play the last match, and Roland Garros and the U.S. Open can have the men play last. Then the following year, they would switch it around so that it evens out.

by skatingfan

Deuce wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:10 am The men's final has traditionally been the highlighted match of the Majors, and is thus played last.
But the women's final is sometimes the better, or more enjoyable/entertaining match.

As such, I propose that the Majors alternate which match is played as the last match - the 'grande finale' - of the tournament.
For example, in the first year of implementation, the Aussie Open and Wimbledon could have the women play the last match, and Roland Garros and the U.S. Open can have the men play last. Then the following year, they would switch it around so that it evens out.

Would that not cause a problem because some of the men would have to play back-to-back best of five?

by Deuce I'm thinking the full 2 week schedule would be adjusted accordingly...

by ti-amie Uh, what is this?

Apparently Anabel Medina and Carla Suarez talked about it during a Spanish language broadcast and shrugged his behavior off to being normal for Eastern Europeans?

by ponchi101 Those two dropped the gloves very fast.
Have there been any reports of Rybakina's coach being disrespectful? Nothing here in the forum; anywhere else?

by ti-amie Okay here is the first part of Tursunov's twitter thread.

by ti-amie It seems Renne Stubbs and MJ(Fernandez) spoke about how Vukov treats Rybakina.
Did we post the picture of the tattoo he has on his arm here? I saw it somewhere...

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:51 pm It seems Renne Stubbs and MJ(Fernandez) spoke about how Vukov treats Rybakina.
Did we post the picture of the tattoo he has on his arm here? I saw it somewhere...

Yes, it was posted (and it was a bit creepy to me personally). But yes, Rennae and MJ definitely spoke during the match about how he spoke to her. Chris Fowler did as well. No one was impressed with it. I personally didn't see it, but I also didn't watch what I think the match was that maybe where he was most demonstrative.

by ti-amie Okay it seems that the way he talks to and treats Rybakina has been a topic of discussion in WTA circles for awhile.

Also Tursunov and Vukov are said to be good friends.

by JazzNU Re: Pam Shriver

I'm not surprised that she's saying these things. She spoke last year about her relationship with her coach and got a lot of support for it. Since that time, she's kind of, to me, gotten a little freer going off book and sharing her thoughts in terms of what she does and does not think is appropriate in a coaching relationship and she's been projecting her experience on all of them.

People's response to her comments have emboldened her. If she's not going to get in trouble for basically calling someone a predator with no actual knowledge of the situation on-air, then this is downright tame in comparison in my eyes.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:41 pm Those two dropped the gloves very fast.
Have there been any reports of Rybakina's coach being disrespectful? Nothing here in the forum; anywhere else?

I'll be honest and say before this week I couldn't name her coach if I tried. He looks like a low budget Chela to me.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:01 am
Also Tursunov and Vukov are said to be good friends.

Which makes sense. He's taking heat for giving that coach "sole" credit for Lena's success.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:41 pm Those two dropped the gloves very fast.
Have there been any reports of Rybakina's coach being disrespectful? Nothing here in the forum; anywhere else?

Yes, I did comment that she should fire him. His gestures and comments from the box during the match would demotivate any player...signalling that Rybakina doesn't know what she is doing etc. I thought he needs to realise it is not about him,she is the one playing.. at crucial moments he was negative, not supportive. Generally patronizing, I thought.

by ti-amie My daughter agrees with Ashkor. She came by and I asked her if she'd heard about controversy surrounding Rybakina's coach and she said "I don't like the way he talks to her".

by Deuce I think this is likely a case of people simply repeating what they've 'heard'... Gossip is like that.

I doubt that Shriver knows very much at all about Rybakina or her coaching situation. It looks like she is judging simply on the surface of things - while at the same time wanting to see certain bad things, because that will get her (Shriver) more attention.

One of the worst things a person can do is to accuse another of something significantly bad - or accuse them of being a bad person - based purely on superficial speculation. That is extremely irresponsible, and is a terrible thing to do to a person.
If something appears to be wrong, or appears to be a bad situation, then, by all means, investigate further - absolutely. But DO NOT ACCUSE before you reach an accurate conclusion based on FACTS. DO NOT selfishly put your assumptions out there in public for 'the court of public opinion', because the court of public opinion is incredibly lazy, and all too often thrives on superficiality and sensationalism.

And trying to portray Tursunov as possessing a view of women as 'inferior' is just Shriver's defensive attempt to take advantage of the current 'anti-male' propaganda that is circulating everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if Pam barely knows Tursunov at all.

It could well be that Rybakina's coach is a bad guy who is doing her harm. But I'm certainly not just going to take the word of some 'talking heads' about it - even if they are former players, they are very likely about as far removed from Rybakina's inner circle as possible.
Maybe someone should ask Rybakina?!?

Tursunov comes across too aggressively in this - but, honestly, he very likely knows Rybakina's situation better than the previously mentioned 'talking heads' (Shriver, Stubbs, M.J., etc.), as Tursunov has been a coach for WTA players for a while, and, for the most part, the various players 'teams' know each other quite well.
I, however, completely disagree with him about Rybakina's coach being "solely responsible" for her success. That's just plain stupid to even think, let alone claim publicly. Rybakina is far more responsible for her success than is anyone else.

by ponchi101 Rybakina came to her coach's defense:
Elena Rybakina: Stop criticising my coach for shouting at me

It seems it is their dynamic.
Very slippery slope there.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:13 pm Rybakina came to her coach's defense:
Elena Rybakina: Stop criticising my coach for shouting at me

It seems it is their dynamic.
Very slippery slope there.

I can't find the videos of him berating her. I found one that was slightly negative but no cause for alarm. There's certainly a line - maybe a chasm - between tough and abusive, and IMO we haven't seen nearly enough to make a fair judgment.

I'm taking Rybakina's word for it until further proof that he's an a-hole. I'm just as bothered by the reflex of infantilizing women by portraying them too quickly as victims. Women can handle tough. Some women like tough. Many women ARE tough.

Pam called her a young player. She's 23 and has won a major. Is that a young player? I think it would depend on her personality and maturity level, but I'm leaning no. Plenty of women are mothers by 23.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:13 pm Rybakina came to her coach's defense:
Elena Rybakina: Stop criticising my coach for shouting at me

It seems it is their dynamic.
Very slippery slope there.

Now, I'm not saying she doesn't feel this way, but I saw her defense of her coach yesterday and I'd say there's about only a 3% chance she actually wrote that defense on her own.

by ti-amie Sabalenka's biomechanics coach speaks about his work with her. It's 31m long.

by ponchi101 I say that if she rotates her 2nd serve grip a bit more towards a BH eastern (like Navs or Raonic) she can get a bit more spin and still have plenty of power.
Totally biased opinion as that is my grip.

by JazzNU FYI, I just finished looking through Twitter comments about Rybakina's coach and there are plenty that took note of his behavior in the stands in Melbourne. And one frequent tennis poster noted that his behavior improves the moment he gets shown on the big screen. And this is a note from a very popular Tennis Twitter account and a gif from another one. Clearly more than just Pam Shriver are put off by what they've seen.

by Deuce Oh, my - that video clip ^ is terrible!
What a horrible person!!!
He is OBVIOUSLY an abusive monster!!!

I'm all for holding bad people accountable for their actions/behaviour - especially abusive persons, but this superficially-based persecution is troubling.
I hope to god that this idiotic political correctness plague will disappear very soon. It desperately tries to create villains and victims everywhere - and doles out baseless accusations like candy - in order to manipulatively justify it as the 'saviour' of people.
It's truly sickening.

by Owendonovan That interview of his about Rybakina raised red flags for me. Why was he giving an interview that she should have given? I'd keep an eye on him.

by ti-amie

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:50 am That interview of his about Rybakina raised red flags for me. Why was he giving an interview that she should have given? I'd keep an eye on him.

Stefano Vukov’s tattoo – © Tennis Majors

by Owendonovan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:19 am
Owendonovan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:50 am That interview of his about Rybakina raised red flags for me. Why was he giving an interview that she should have given? I'd keep an eye on him.

Stefano Vukov’s tattoo – © Tennis Majors

I commented on that tattoo when the article was first put up. How many times will he say, when he's not getting his way with her, "But I've tattooed you on my arm........."

by ponchi101 Devil's advocate. She came out and clearly supported him. So, shouldn't we take her at her word? After all, we are supposed to believe what women say, when they talk about a relationship with men.

by JazzNU As I said before, I'm not of the belief she wrote that, but do think she's supporting her coach. But it's not her I think is the problem, it's him I'm caring for less and less the more I see about him. It's got nothing to do with Lena.

That tattoo is so large and in your face, that I find it creepy, not celebratory. Like I hope he lost a bet and that size of tattoo was part of the punishment, because otherwise, it is making me think two things, and neither of them is good. Like Owen said, it's giving major red flag.

by Owendonovan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:51 am Devil's advocate. She came out and clearly supported him. So, shouldn't we take her at her word? After all, we are supposed to believe what women say, when they talk about a relationship with men.

We should, but I'm a bit too cynical. Once bitten twice shy with what appears to be an "off" coaching relationship. Coming from the world of gymnastics, believe me, I've seen more of this kind coaching of girls/young women than I care to have. I've never seen the converse, Woman and younger male athlete with this kind of dynamic in any particular sport.

by Deuce So... it's ok - even preferable - to judge Rybakina's coach as being a 'really bad guy', based on very, very little information (and mostly just following gossip that others have created)... (Maybe Rybakina made him get the tattoo - maybe it was playfully arranged - with her - that he'd have to get a tattoo if she won a Major. None of us have any idea about their relationship - but some are pretending to know in order to create the very popular villain/victim scenario.)
And Rybakina is unlikable because she doesn't smile as often as some people would like her to, as well... There have been more silly, superficial negative comments about Rybakina here (most coming from one person) than about any other female player recently. To me, it's undeserved.

So it's ok - even preferable - to judge Rybakina's coach as being 'a really bad guy'...
But it's a terrible thing to judge Zverev as being a 'really bad guy' after at least one extremely detailed accusation of physical abuse - because "people are innocent until proven guilty", and it's bad to accuse someone of something without solid proof.

Uhhh... Right...

Oh... it's also ok to overtly call John Isner a "racist" (Isner's peers - including one of his close friends James Blake - certainly don't think he's a racist or a bad guy)...
Apparently Isner and Rybakina's coach aren't worthy of the same 'respectful' treatment as Zverev.

Nice to see that contradiction and hypocrisy are alive and well...

by ashkor87 As we emerge from the Australian Open, some thoughts-
1.:Djokovic is back, only Alcaraz can beat him, on clay
2. Sinner, Medvedev, and FAA are in stall mode, may not do much this year..Zverev may be back this year..
3. Expect good things from Rybakina and Bencic, both are playing at their potential ..
4. Sabalenka will be a major force in the clay court season, may even win the French, she has done well on clay the past couple years
5. Gauff and Pegula are not progressing, I don't expect them to win a slam this year
6. Jabeur has gone off the boil totally..she has a good record on clay but her game is actually better suited to faster surfaces like grass..
7. Vekic and Korda are the real surprises for me, hope they do well at the majors this year
8. Look out for Samsonova and Alexandrova in the next few months and Alycia Parks!
9.Linette was probably a one-time performance, like Trevisan last year..good performance but may not be repeated
10.Azarenka is still playing well..

by mick1303

JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:31 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:13 pm Rybakina came to her coach's defense:
Elena Rybakina: Stop criticising my coach for shouting at me

It seems it is their dynamic.
Very slippery slope there.
Now, I'm not saying she doesn't feel this way, but I saw her defense of her coach yesterday and I'd say there's about only a 3% chance she actually wrote that defense on her own.

Could you, plz, elaborate on this 3% claim? What is the evidence, if any, that her words do not reflect her position and that someone is putting words in her mouth?

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:57 am As we emerge from the Australian Open, some thoughts-
1.:Djokovic is back, only Alcaraz can beat him, on clay
2. Sinner, Medvedev, and FAA are in stall mode, may not do much this year..Zverev may be back this year..
3. Expect good things from Rybakina and Bencic, both are playing at their potential ..
4. Sabalenka will be a major force in the clay court season, may even win the French, she has done well on clay the past couple years
5. Gauff and Pegula are not progressing, I don't expect them to win a slam this year
6. Jabeur has gone off the boil totally..she has a good record on clay but her game is actually better suited to faster surfaces like grass..
7. Vekic and Korda are the real surprises for me, hope they do well at the majors this year
8. Look out for Samsonova and Alexandrova in the next few months and Alycia Parks!
9.Linette was probably a one-time performance, like Trevisan last year..good performance but may not be repeated
10.Azarenka is still playing well..

In order:
1. Yes, he is back. Alcaraz AND a healthy Rafa (and that is a major IF) on clay can challenge him. Nobody else.
2. Add Tsitsipas. If he could not take a set from Novak (and his injury), that is not progress. Zverev? Let's give him some time. That was a brutal injury.
3. Rybakina, yes. I need to see more consistent results from Belinda (but I hope you are right).
4. She has done well in Madrid, usually a bad indicator for RG. But, with a slam now, let's see her confidence level. If she is now free to hit as hard as she wants, the losses may be few.
5. Gauff is at her career high ranking. Pegula... I will take your word.
6. Indeed, surprising. Ons has been nothing like she was last year.
7. Neither is a rookie. Korda had a very good tournament, but that injury may be bad. Vekic? Let's give her more time with Shriver, but she has been on the tour a long time now. I think she has a ceiling in the 20's.
8. Haven't watched them. Your word.
9. Linette? This years Tatjiana Maria. Great run, but she is 30. She is not suddenly getting into the top 10.
10. Azarenka. Maybe that was her last hurrah...

by ti-amie

by ti-amie This is an interesting conversation from earlier today re Andreescu.

by ti-amie The article is - interesting.

by Fastbackss Is the article in the tweet that's gone?

by ti-amie

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:46 pm Is the article in the tweet that's gone?

Yes. Myles referred to a long piece she wrote in November October of last year if I'm remembering correctly where she detailed trainer Abdul Sillah's attempts to work with both Osaka and Andreescu at the same time and all the drama that he caused. The fact that she referenced her own article was a bit troubling to me and may have been to others so that may be why she deleted the tweet. I'll see what she's done since.

Here's the article.

https://opencourt.ca/2022/10/28/after-t ... ild-osaka/

by ashkor87 It is, of course way too early for the French Open but I would say, tentatively,
1. swiatek will probably win, as will Alcaraz
2. Sabalenka and Djokovic have a good shot too but should not be considered favorites
3, among the women, I like the way Ostapenko is coming along, and she knows how to win here!
4. Dark horses would be Samsonova and Anisimova
5. Am very eager to see how Leylah has recovered - played very well at last year's FO, would have been in the semis or even finals but for that injury.
Stuttgart in particular will tell us more.
The entire mini-,hard-court season has little bearing on the French Open, the surfaces are too different, except for IW, which is as slow as any clay court could be.

by ponchi101 Too early. I will not have an opinion on any player after we have at least one clay tournament to get a view.
But. Anisimova right now is nobody's dark horse. She is producing no tennis of any quality to speak of.

by Fastbackss

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:02 am Yes. Myles referred to a long piece she wrote in November October of last year if I'm remembering correctly where she detailed trainer Abdul Sillah's attempts to work with both Osaka and Andreescu at the same time and all the drama that he caused. The fact that she referenced her own article was a bit troubling to me and may have been to others so that may be why she deleted the tweet. I'll see what she's done since.

Here's the article.

https://opencourt.ca/2022/10/28/after-t ... ild-osaka/

Yeah, I concur. That is quite a piece.

There was a lot of "reporting" in it, but I felt like a bunch was assembled by conjecture from social media posts. Also seemed like the reporting was made to meet the outcome she wanted.

Anywho, back to my coffee...

by ti-amie Myles doesn't have the best of reputations among sports journalists. Deuce, being in Canada, might be able to speak more to that situation. I think she used to cover MLB too.

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:06 pm Myles doesn't have the best of reputations among sports journalists. Deuce, being in Canada, might be able to speak more to that situation. I think she used to cover MLB too.

I have no idea about any reputation she has, good or bad...
I've talked with her a few times at tournaments - she's always been nice enough to talk with. I don't particularly like her style of journalism, though, as it tends toward the more sensational, 'look at the scoop I got' type of stuff. And she seems to be very possessive of her 'Open Court' website, often being rather insulting to anyone who writes comments that disagree with or challenge her positions, and even to those who may not know a particular rule or some such.

She seems to retain a particular access to Canadian players, though.
And, yes, she was a baseball reporter prior to tennis, reporting primarily on the Montreal Expos for her hometown Montreal newspaper.

by ashkor87 am very impressed with Alycia Parks' agility, footwork, ability to change direction - there was one point where she was mid-court, going the wrong way, effortlessly righted herself and changed direction without losing balance and hit a winner.. very very good volleyer, quite the best I have seen in a while now.. her athleticism reminds me of Venus..
in short, a future Wimbledon champion..not necessarily this year, but some day..

by ponchi101 Wait. She is 22, her career high is 51 (this week), she just won her first title, and you are ready to name her a future W champion?
I will wait. Needless to say, I have not seen her play but if you are that impressed, I gather she is at a different level. But this is just one win.

by ti-amie Parks has worked hard to get to the level of play Ashkor is describing. I saw her a lot on her way to her current level. She has taken time to mature and show her real potential but I agree that she can become a "Tier 1 Player" if she keeps working on her game.

by ashkor87 https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/jo ... tie-breaks

To nobody's surprise..but it is no great credit to Isner, actually..what it shows is he cannot break other people's serves, while nobody can break his!

by ponchi101 But that has been his game all his life. There is no secret to that.
I know he is not liked much, but I give him credit. He has played this sport with two polar opposite qualities: an incredible serve and power, and perhaps the worst mobility ever seen in the sport. And he has achieved a bit. I respect that.
It's like Diego, reaching such great results with no power, only speed and guts.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 3:58 pm But that has been his game all his life. There is no secret to that.
I know he is not liked much, but I give him credit. He has played this sport with two polar opposite qualities: an incredible serve and power, and perhaps the worst mobility ever seen in the sport. And he has achieved a bit. I respect that.
It's like Diego, reaching such great results with no power, only speed and guts.

It might be a tie between Isner and Shriver for 'worst mobility ever seen in the sport'.
With Pliskova in the mix, as well.

by Owendonovan I've always found calling Shriver an "elite athlete" difficult to roll off the tongue despite her obvious achievements as one.

by ponchi101

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:10 pm I've always found calling Shriver an "elite athlete" difficult to roll off the tongue despite her obvious achievements as one.

Whatever opinion anybody may have of the Prince racquets (the first one), you cannot deny that they brought power to a new level. Shriver's BH was a truly awful shot biomechanically, but she got away with it because the racquet gave her the power. If you want to teach somebody how to hit a slice BH, first you show them a clip of Shriver's so they will know how NOT to hit it.
(Then, of course, you show them some grainy B&W clip of Rosewall).

But, in the scale of all the excellent "elite athletes" that this sport has produced, she has to be included with double quotes. Her lateral movement was troublesome (she was fine moving forward, and her volleys were better than average).

by ti-amie I was surprised to see/hear Lahyani doing a WTA match. I'm glad I wasn't the only one to wonder about it.

by Deuce Lahyani's quite a character. Always animated... Always laid back, spontaneous, and looking quite comfortable up there.
He certainly seems to love what he's doing - it's as if every day is his first day in the chair, and he's giddy.
He's good for the game.

Fergus Murphy is kind of the polar opposite. I've heard that Fergus is a good guy... and I don't doubt that - but he seems pretty uptight and 'by the book', making sure that absolutely every 'i' is dotted, and every 't' is crossed, when he's in the chair.

by ashkor87 It is always heartbreaking to see someone you know, struggle in qualies and fail ..Ankita Raina is someone I have known since she was a baby...
Equally sad to see a champion like Errani struggle in qualies...

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:44 am It is always heartbreaking to see someone you know, struggle in qualies and fail ..Ankita Raina is someone I have known since she was a baby...
Equally sad to see a champion like Errani struggle in qualies...

Some people will only go so far. It is the sad thing about sports. You can see it in a lot of players that have had very good careers, but always flowing around some level. Federico Delbonis and Carlos Berloq come to mind. Hard working, dedicated pros, that were at best ranked in the top 100 for a few weeks here and there.
Heck, I remember Venezuela's Nicolas Pereira, world #1 junior in 1988. Top rank in the pros? 77. And it was not that he did not put the effort.

by ashkor87 There is a lovely story about Federer in the book The Master.. cahill finds agassi sitting in the locker room hours after Federer thrashed him..Cahill tries to console him ' you will get him next time' etc. Agassi looks at Cahill and says 'you don't understand. Ge has taken the game to a different level. We will never be able to catch him now' .
So the rest of the WTA may be saying about Swiatek.

by ashkor87 On Coco...one more reason she is not so great on slow courts: you have to hit 20 shots in every point ..her forehand weakness does tend to show up when she has to hit 20 in a row ..

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 1:43 am There is a lovely story about Federer in the book The Master.. cahill finds agassi sitting in the locker room hours after Federer thrashed him..Cahill tries to console him ' you will get him next time' etc. Agassi looks at Cahill and says 'you don't understand. Ge has taken the game to a different level. We will never be able to catch him now' .
So the rest of the WTA may be saying about Swiatek.

Let's say that you are "passionate" about the sport. We love that.
But let's not get carried away here. At the Aussie, Swiatek looked like a normal player. Her losing score against Rybakina was a regular loss (4 & 4). I saw the match versus Cami and, although Swiatek won with ease, Cami broke her 4 times.
She has yet to make inroads at both the Aussie and Wimby. Right now, at Doha, she is indeed in a different zone. But comparisons to Roger (and all the other greats) have to wait a bit.
On the other hand: great story about Roger/Agassi. And yet, look how Rafa and Nole eventually caught up with him. Not to mention, time.

by ashkor87 But nobody from Agassi's generation .it took a new generation..Nadal and Djokovic .

by ponchi101 Oh, sure. But Agassi was at least 11 years older than Roger. And Agassi was not the choice of his gen; it was Sampras.
I see Agassi's point. Those were those years in which Roger went on court with one set and a break up. But somebody always stands up. We only have to give it some time.

by ashkor87 Yes, somebody will..in the atp that is Alcaraz..it will be somebody we have yet to hear of, among the women..and Sabalenka and Rybiakina on a faster court

by ashkor87

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 3:58 am On Coco...one more reason she is not so great on slow courts: you have to hit 20 shots in every point ..her forehand weakness does tend to show up when she has to hit 20 in a row ..

by the way, it is worth noting that Coco has yet to win a wta 500 or 1000 series event on clay,- she does have 3 titles, all 250, 2 of them are on hard courts.. worth pondering over. I think she is better on fast courts because of her awesome foot speed and defense.. she does like to volley, so if she goes to the net more, like Leylah, she could do well even on slower courts - let us hope she tries it. Charleston could be her best bet on 'clay'..

by Sinner Fan I do believe there will be many future competitive match between Carlos and Jannik for decade to come. I would not count out Jannik to put pressure on Carlos at top.

by ponchi101 Incoming crop (once Novak retires): Carlos, Rune, Jannik, Musetti. But we still have to wait.
Fritz is a bit older, but he will be there too.

by Sinner Fan I think the under 25 crop of player in men game is big. Player like Carlos, Stefanos, Casper, FAA, Holger, Jannik, Lorenzo, Sebastian Korda, Denis Shapo, Miomir.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I like Jimmy Butler.
But this is another word that is losing any sort of meaning: LEGEND. Butler is very, very good. Legend is another status.

by Owendonovan Are they dating?

by skatingfan

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 2:07 am Are they dating?

Butler's in his 30's, and Alcarez is 19, so I would hope not.

Alcaraz's girlfriend, Maria Gonzalez Gimenez

by JazzNU Djokovic called a press conference for today. Big announcements were expected. Table setup with many microphones in front of him. The sum total of the news he wanted to break: he's going to play in Dubai. What are we doing here Novak? Approaching Aaron Rodgers level of attention seeking.

by ponchi101 Serious pondering here.
Notice this strange pattern. You are an antivaxxer. Yet, you claim you are not; you a simply "doing your own research". You hold strange ideas: energy mines in Serbia, experimentation with powerful hallucinogens drugs, the earth is flat. And you, therefore, can't stay away from controversy.
And, as you point out, there is this constant demand for attention, despite the fact that you are, indeed, very, very good at what you do.
Novak, Aaron, Kyrie. It seems like a pattern, something worthy of more research (or, maybe the research is there, and I have no idea).
Am I missing somebody? (Again, I am being serious).

You are going to play an ATP 500. Tweet could have done it.
(How big is the tear in his OTHER hamstring this time?)

by JazzNU

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 5:44 pm

I was so glad to see him run around the ball to hit the return instead of trying a tweener. And wow what a shot!

by ptmcmahon

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:06 pm Serious pondering here.
Notice this strange pattern. You are an antivaxxer. Yet, you claim you are not; you a simply "doing your own research". You hold strange ideas: energy mines in Serbia, experimentation with powerful hallucinogens drugs, the earth is flat. And you, therefore, can't stay away from controversy.
And, as you point out, there is this constant demand for attention, despite the fact that you are, indeed, very, very good at what you do.
Novak, Aaron, Kyrie. It seems like a pattern, something worthy of more research (or, maybe the research is there, and I have no idea).
Am I missing somebody? (Again, I am being serious).

You are going to play an ATP 500. Tweet could have done it.
(How big is the tear in his OTHER hamstring this time?)

I'm planning a press conference to announce my last two Around The World trades. Hope everyone can attend.

Speaking or Rodgers, I need a new Packers jersey... getting hard to wear my Rodgers or Favre jerseys and not feel icky about it. Maybe I'll reveal a new one at my press conference!

by ponchi101

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:09 pm ...

I'm planning a press conference to announce my last two Around The World trades. Hope everyone can attend.

Speaking or Rodgers, I need a new Packers jersey... getting hard to wear my Rodgers or Favre jerseys and not feel icky about it. Maybe I'll reveal a new one at my press conference!

That cracked me up.

But, sorry. Won't be able to make it. Will be pulling my hair off thinking about my trades

by dryrunguy

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:06 pm Serious pondering here.
Notice this strange pattern. You are an antivaxxer. Yet, you claim you are not; you a simply "doing your own research". You hold strange ideas: energy mines in Serbia, experimentation with powerful hallucinogens drugs, the earth is flat. And you, therefore, can't stay away from controversy.
And, as you point out, there is this constant demand for attention, despite the fact that you are, indeed, very, very good at what you do.
Novak, Aaron, Kyrie. It seems like a pattern, something worthy of more research (or, maybe the research is there, and I have no idea).
Am I missing somebody? (Again, I am being serious).

You are going to play an ATP 500. Tweet could have done it.
(How big is the tear in his OTHER hamstring this time?)

It's not a pattern. It's a world view. And in Novak's case, he's the center of the world. He thinks that way because he was conditioned to think that way at a very young age. The entire family revolved around him. And because of his talent, that world view was easily and continuously fed, particularly within Serbian circles.

And because of that world view, it is thoroughly mystifying to him why it doesn't always and automatically extend to realms outside of his family, country, and tennis in general. Like a Biblical text, nothing about him should be questioned. He's above such nonsense.

He is, essentially, a human god. That's the default of his world view. And hence, the presser. His default is that the world was anxiously awaiting on pins and needles to know if he was playing or not.

by Deuce ^ Makes sense... but I think that applies to many - if not most - 'famous' folk. Especially since the internet has made 'fame' much more rapid and far reaching than ever before.
Of course, not everyone's ego inflates to a huge degree - but most 'famous' people have rather large egos, and feel very entitled. More and more, they are treated as demi-gods everywhere they go - and when they are not treated as such, they are confused and object.

Lastly - the question is whether this 'world view' is flat or round...

by Owendonovan

dryrunguy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:30 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:06 pm Serious pondering here.
Notice this strange pattern. You are an antivaxxer. Yet, you claim you are not; you a simply "doing your own research". You hold strange ideas: energy mines in Serbia, experimentation with powerful hallucinogens drugs, the earth is flat. And you, therefore, can't stay away from controversy.
And, as you point out, there is this constant demand for attention, despite the fact that you are, indeed, very, very good at what you do.
Novak, Aaron, Kyrie. It seems like a pattern, something worthy of more research (or, maybe the research is there, and I have no idea).
Am I missing somebody? (Again, I am being serious).

You are going to play an ATP 500. Tweet could have done it.
(How big is the tear in his OTHER hamstring this time?)
It's not a pattern. It's a world view. And in Novak's case, he's the center of the world. He thinks that way because he was conditioned to think that way at a very young age. The entire family revolved around him. And because of his talent, that world view was easily and continuously fed, particularly within Serbian circles.

And because of that world view, it is thoroughly mystifying to him why it doesn't always and automatically extend to realms outside of his family, country, and tennis in general. Like a Biblical text, nothing about him should be questioned. He's above such nonsense.

He is, essentially, a human god. That's the default of his world view. And hence, the presser. His default is that the world was anxiously awaiting on pins and needles to know if he was playing or not.

And continues to, their shameless groveling over him is nauseating.

by ti-amie

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:04 pm

Yes... Danielle Collins and Taylor Fritz are also onboard with 'Waterdrop' (I posted about this a month or two ago).
It looks like a good initiative. I hate seeing the many plastic bottles that are used each match - hell, if I can bring a REUSABLE water bottle or two to the courts when I play, I'm sure that pro players can do the same.

Recycling is better than things going in the garbage, obviously - but recycling is not pure - the process of recycling produces pollution. Eliminating unnecessary use of materials is much better than using and recycling.

Taylor Fritz and Danielle Collins Lead Way Into Plastic Free Tennis...

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by Suliso Title count of active WTA players. Minimum 2 titles, GS's in parenthesis if any. Current top 10 players in bold.

Petra Kvitova 29 (2)
Simona Halep 24 (2)
Victoria Azarenka 21 (2)
Karolína Plíšková 16
Iga Świątek 12 (3)
Aryna Sabalenka 12 (1)
Caroline Garcia 11
Garbiñe Muguruza 10 (2)
Sara Errani 9
Belinda Bencic 8
Sloane Stephens 7 (1)
Elise Mertens 7
Madison Keys, Daria Kasatkina, Anett Kontaveit, Alizé Cornet 6
Barbora Krejčíková 5 (1)
Jeļena Ostapenko 5 (1)
Sofia Kenin 5 (1)
Irina-Camelia Begu 5
Ludmilla Samsonova, Kaia Kanepi, Lesia Tsurenko, Heather Watson, Mona Barthel 4
Elena Rybakina 3 (1)
Bianca Andreescu 3 (1)
Ons Jabeur, Coco Gauff, Paula Badosa, Ekaterina Alexandrova, Shuai Zhang, Donna Vekić, Kateřina Siniaková, Alison Riske, Camila Giorgi, Anna Karolína Schmiedlová, Dayana Yastremska 3
Jessica Pegula, Beatriz Haddad Maia, Magda Linette, Petra Martić, Anastasia Potapova, Leylah Fernandez, Amanda Anisimova, Jil Teichmann, Danielle Collins, Yulia Putintseva, Lauren Davis, Sorana Cîrstea, Tatjana Maria, Laura Siegemund, Clara Tauson, Nao Hibino 2

So to summarize there are 54 multi title winners on tour. 13 GS winners, from those 5 with more than one.

To be updated after this week and maybe in the future too.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:04 pm

Murray, so frequently ahead of the pack, brings his water in regular plastic bottles, which he refills.

Heck, dumb idiots like me take our own water jugs. It is not that complicated.
And: you want some change? Stop having your "re-strung-but-never-used-because-I-won-my-match-0&1" racquet sent to you in plastic wrapping. That would be a better thing to do (they all have the 10 racquet bags).

by meganfernandez i'd probably include Osaka on the list, since the WTA doesn't consider her inactive...7 (4)

It's shocking to me that Jabeur and Pegula can be ranked so high with so few titles. Sakkari, too, I guess. I guess it's a function of Iga's points grab and their own very consistent performances.

Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 7:01 am Title count of active WTA players. Minimum 2 titles, GS's in parenthesis if any. Current top 10 players in bold.

Petra Kvitova 29 (2)
Simona Halep 24 (2)
Victoria Azarenka 21 (2)
Karolína Plíšková 16
Iga Świątek 12 (3)
Aryna Sabalenka 12 (1)
Caroline Garcia 11
Garbiñe Muguruza 10 (2)
Sara Errani 9
Belinda Bencic 8
Sloane Stephens 7 (1)
Elise Mertens 7
Madison Keys, Daria Kasatkina, Anett Kontaveit, Alizé Cornet 6
Barbora Krejčíková 5 (1)
Jeļena Ostapenko 5 (1)
Sofia Kenin 5 (1)
Irina-Camelia Begu 5
Ludmilla Samsonova, Kaia Kanepi, Lesia Tsurenko, Heather Watson, Mona Barthel 4
Elena Rybakina 3 (1)
Bianca Andreescu 3 (1)
Ons Jabeur, Coco Gauff, Paula Badosa, Ekaterina Alexandrova, Shuai Zhang, Donna Vekić, Kateřina Siniaková, Alison Riske, Camila Giorgi, Anna Karolína Schmiedlová, Dayana Yastremska 3
Jessica Pegula, Beatriz Haddad Maia, Magda Linette, Petra Martić, Anastasia Potapova, Leylah Fernandez, Amanda Anisimova, Jil Teichmann, Danielle Collins, Yulia Putintseva, Lauren Davis, Sorana Cîrstea, Tatjana Maria, Laura Siegemund, Clara Tauson, Nao Hibino 2

So to summarize there are 54 multi title winners on tour. 13 GS winners, from those 5 with more than one.

To be updated after this week and maybe in the future too.

by Ainsley Not really sure where this would go. The other night I was watching Alycia Parks play Mexico's Contreras Gomez in Merida and I noticed something right from the moment Alycia Parks walked onto the court. Her body language was just awful. It looked like she didn't want to be there or it looked like she was just in a huge fight with her best friend. I get it that she was not getting much support from the fans in Mexico, but her attitude was awful in my opinion.

I am an American and typically I would cheer for the American players in these sorts of matches, but I found myself cheering for Contreras Gomez in the match. There were net court winners by Parks that she would not acknowledge. I understand that players don't have to raise their hands on that sort of thing, but most do. It just seemed like she woke up on the wrong side of the bed. I'm not saying a player has to be all cheerful and bubbly during a match, but on this night Alycia Parks was just off. I am not sure how she acted in her loss to Rebecca Peterson in the next match.

by Deuce

Ainsley wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 12:36 am Not really sure where this would go. The other night I was watching Alycia Parks play Mexico's Contreras Gomez in Merida and I noticed something right from the moment Alycia Parks walked onto the court. Her body language was just awful. It looked like she didn't want to be there or it looked like she was just in a huge fight with her best friend. I get it that she was not getting much support from the fans in Mexico, but her attitude was awful in my opinion.

I am an American and typically I would cheer for the American players in these sorts of matches, but I found myself cheering for Contreras Gomez in the match. There were net court winners by Parks that she would not acknowledge. I understand that players don't have to raise their hands on that sort of thing, but most do. It just seemed like she woke up on the wrong side of the bed. I'm not saying a player has to be all cheerful and bubbly during a match, but on this night Alycia Parks was just off. I am not sure how she acted in her loss to Rebecca Peterson in the next match.

I agree. I saw most of the match you refer to, as well, and I didn’t like Parks’ attitude, either. She was even terse with the ball kids a couple of times when she felt they didn’t give her the balls quickly enough.
To me, it looked like she was comporting herself like a very arrogant #1 player in the world. But she’s not close to #1, of course (and even if she was, there is no excuse for arrogance).

But then in the post match on-court interview, she seemed rather shy - which was odd. She went from appearing way over-confident during the match to appearing to be under-confident in the interview.

In terms of her tennis ability... I haven’t watched her much, but in the match vs. Contreras Gomez that you refer to, and which I saw most of, Parks did not impress me. She made a lot of very unforced errors on routine shots.

Parks has a history of questionable on-court behaviour. In the video clip below from 2019, she gets into a shoving match with Katherine Sebov after Sebov beat her. Parks said she didn’t like the way that Sebov shook her hand. Maybe Sebov didn’t like Parks’ pissy attitude throughout the match.
Parks also complained that Sebov was celebrating winning points too much (saying “come on!”, etc.) - but I’ve seen Parks do the very same thing herself (including this week).

For the record, I’ve seen Sebov play several times live, and I’ve never seen any questionable behaviour from her. I asked a linesman friend of mine, who has been on court for many of Sebov's matches, and he said he’s never seen her be a problem, either.

by Ainsley

Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:03 am
Ainsley wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 12:36 am Not really sure where this would go. The other night I was watching Alycia Parks play Mexico's Contreras Gomez in Merida and I noticed something right from the moment Alycia Parks walked onto the court. Her body language was just awful. It looked like she didn't want to be there or it looked like she was just in a huge fight with her best friend. I get it that she was not getting much support from the fans in Mexico, but her attitude was awful in my opinion.

I am an American and typically I would cheer for the American players in these sorts of matches, but I found myself cheering for Contreras Gomez in the match. There were net court winners by Parks that she would not acknowledge. I understand that players don't have to raise their hands on that sort of thing, but most do. It just seemed like she woke up on the wrong side of the bed. I'm not saying a player has to be all cheerful and bubbly during a match, but on this night Alycia Parks was just off. I am not sure how she acted in her loss to Rebecca Peterson in the next match.
I agree. I saw most of the match you refer to, as well, and I didn’t like Parks’ attitude, either. She was even terse with the ball kids a couple of times when she felt they didn’t give her the balls quickly enough.
To me, it looked like she was comporting herself like a very arrogant #1 player in the world. But she’s not close to #1, of course (and even if she was, there is no excuse for arrogance).

But then in the post match on-court interview, she seemed rather shy - which was odd. She went from appearing way over-confident during the match to appearing to be under-confident in the interview.

In terms of her tennis ability... I haven’t watched her much, but in the match vs. Contreras Gomez that you refer to, and which I saw most of, Parks did not impress me. She made a lot of very unforced errors on routine shots.

Parks has a history of questionable on-court behaviour. In the video clip below from 2019, she gets into a shoving match with Katherine Sebov after Sebov beat her. Parks said she didn’t like the way that Sebov shook her hand. Maybe Sebov didn’t like Parks’ pissy attitude throughout the match.
Parks also complained that Sebov was celebrating winning points too much (saying “come on!”, etc.) - but I’ve seen Parks do the very same thing herself (including this week).

For the record, I’ve seen Sebov play several times live, and I’ve never seen any questionable behaviour from her. I asked a linesman friend of mine, who has been on court for many of Sebov's matches, and he said he’s never seen her be a problem, either.

I am glad someone else noticed it. It did seem like she was coming off as arrogant. If she thinks she can come onto the tour and win solely on her ability to serve bombs she has another thing coming. She was so late in preparing for most of her backhand shots it was ridiculous. The result was obviously clear with the amount of unforced errors she hit in the match. I didn't see her next match in which she lost to Rebecca Peterson, but I imagine it was more unforced errors. Once she steps on the court against the top players she is going to be blown off the court and hopefully that will be an attitude adjustment for her. I do think she has talent, but she also has a lot of work that needs to be done.

by ti-amie

Oh?

by ponchi101 The list is the list of wins by Iga, who obviously has only lost twice to Krejcikova.
About Barbora being an automatic HOF. Not yet. I think.

by Ainsley Krejcikova definitely has the game to become a Hall of Famer. The key for her now as she is entering the prime of her career in consistency. She needs to stay at a top level of her game and she will make it.

by ponchi101 She is 27 yo. She is playing very good tennis, but time is not on her side. She has to get a couple of extra slams soon.
(She may get in via doubles, where she and Siniakova are in HOF territory).

by Ainsley

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:06 pm She is 27 yo. She is playing very good tennis, but time is not on her side. She has to get a couple of extra slams soon.
(She may get in via doubles, where she and Siniakova are in HOF territory).

If she is able to play till her mid 30's and picks up another singles slam and play consistent along that time period she should get in. The doubles should be easier for her.

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:18 pm The list is the list of wins by Iga, who obviously has only lost twice to Krejcikova.
About Barbora being an automatic HOF. Not yet. I think.

If it's not automatic yet, it's getting really close. She's already in double digits in Grand Slam titles, and only 27.

by ponchi101 If you include doubles and mixed, that has indeed been accomplished.
But I was thinking more about her singles. In doubles, she is already a HOF. Singles is what is missing a little bit.

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 3:56 pm If you include doubles and mixed, that has indeed been accomplished.
But I was thinking more about her singles. In doubles, she is already a HOF. Singles is what is missing a little bit.

Okay. The tweet that Ti posted covered all of her career so that's why I was surprised that you were questioning her likelihood of being in the Hall of Fame.

by Ainsley

skatingfan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 3:44 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:18 pm The list is the list of wins by Iga, who obviously has only lost twice to Krejcikova.
About Barbora being an automatic HOF. Not yet. I think.
If it's not automatic yet, it's getting really close. She's already in double digits in Grand Slam titles, and only 27.

I still think she has plenty of time to accomplish this goal even just with what she does in her singles career. She has proven that she can beat the top players at the top events so she can get more Slams under her belt.

by ashkor87 i must say, I really dont like Alcaraz' serving motion - it is more of a half-swing than a full swing, too abbreviated, he will suffer injuries over time because of it

by ponchi101 I will pay more attention next time. I wonder why it is that way, as Ferrero had an excellent service motion.

by ponchi101 They showed the match again, and was able to check Carlitos's motion.
It is not that abbreviated

. He does not bring the racquet too low (ala Sampras or Edberg) but from a standard "racquet above the shoulder" position he generates good power. The grip seems relaxed, to there might not be a lot of stress on the arm.
We'll see. He is not crushing serves at 135, so I don't know how much stress he is putting on the joints.

by ti-amie Thanks Ashkor and ponchi. This is definitely something to pay attention to.

by Ainsley Could someone tell me how the particular motion you are all talking about with Carlos could put more stress on the joints than any other particular service motion that is used by another player?

by ponchi101 I will give you another example. Not Carlos.
Remember a few years ago, Novak retired at Wimbledon due to a shoulder injury. His service motion was (maybe) the culprit. It was too cramped, and Goran seems to have worked very nicely on that, making it more elongated.
I believe (I will let Ashkor clarify) that what Ashkor is saying is that Carlitos' motion is too short in the backswing. Therefore, before he starts stretching to hit the ball, he has to accelerate faster than usual because his arm is still up, and he needs to bring it down and up again.
Sampras motion was the opposite. He would drop his racquet head DOWN onto his back, and from there he would spring it back to hit the ball. His racquet was prepared "earlier", so he did not need to have brisk moves to reach the ball. No jerky motions led to a smooth swing, and Sampras never had any shoulder/elbow problems in his serving arm (a surprising fact, give how heavy and tightly strung his racquet was).

Exception: Roddick. He had a very compact motion. But his racquet did a lot of the work, so he also never had arms issues.

by Ainsley

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 10:12 pm I will give you another example. Not Carlos.
Remember a few years ago, Novak retired at Wimbledon due to a shoulder injury. His service motion was (maybe) the culprit. It was too cramped, and Goran seems to have worked very nicely on that, making it more elongated.
I believe (I will let Ashkor clarify) that what Ashkor is saying is that Carlitos' motion is too short in the backswing. Therefore, before he starts stretching to hit the ball, he has to accelerate faster than usual because his arm is still up, and he needs to bring it down and up again.
Sampras motion was the opposite. He would drop his racquet head DOWN onto his back, and from there he would spring it back to hit the ball. His racquet was prepared "earlier", so he did not need to have brisk moves to reach the ball. No jerky motions led to a smooth swing, and Sampras never had any shoulder/elbow problems in his serving arm (a surprising fact, give how heavy and tightly strung his racquet was).

Exception: Roddick. He had a very compact motion. But his racquet did a lot of the work, so he also never had arms issues.

So it is that extra reach jerky motion that could put extra strain on a shoulder or elbow? If a player tends to keep a more fluid service motion than those issues may not come?

by ponchi101 Anything that is jerky will put strain on whatever it is jerking. F = MA, but Kinetic Energy = 1/2 mass times velocity square. So, if you have a bit of a longer ride to reach the same velocity in your racquet head, the forces in your arm will be smoother.

by Ainsley

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:00 am Anything that is jerky will put strain on whatever it is jerking. F = MA, but Kinetic Energy = 1/2 mass times velocity square. So, if you have a bit of a longer ride to reach the same velocity in your racquet head, the forces in your arm will be smoother.

Sign Carlos Alcaraz up for a Physics Class.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 10:12 pm I will give you another example. Not Carlos.
Remember a few years ago, Novak retired at Wimbledon due to a shoulder injury. His service motion was (maybe) the culprit. It was too cramped, and Goran seems to have worked very nicely on that, making it more elongated.
I believe (I will let Ashkor clarify) that what Ashkor is saying is that Carlitos' motion is too short in the backswing. Therefore, before he starts stretching to hit the ball, he has to accelerate faster than usual because his arm is still up, and he needs to bring it down and up again.
Sampras motion was the opposite. He would drop his racquet head DOWN onto his back, and from there he would spring it back to hit the ball. His racquet was prepared "earlier", so he did not need to have brisk moves to reach the ball. No jerky motions led to a smooth swing, and Sampras never had any shoulder/elbow problems in his serving arm (a surprising fact, give how heavy and tightly strung his racquet was).

Exception: Roddick. He had a very compact motion. But his racquet did a lot of the work, so he also never had arms issues.

Exactly, I can't add anything to your explanation..
Btw I feel Garcia has a little bit of a similar issue too... though certainly less clearly..her main problem is she starts a bit too erect..

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I don't think that Andrey is as superrrr excited to play Daniil as Daniil is to play him.
It's weird to see how Stefanos is so respected in the tour.

by Deuce I said a few years ago that there are definite parallels between Tsitsipas and Djokovic in terms of their character...
Both have views that are pretty 'out there' - Djokovic likes to be 'alternative', and Tsitsipas pretends to be a 'philosopher' (and fails miserably)... both of their fathers are controversial over-the-top supporters of their sons (Djokovic's father wore shirts with Novak's photo on them, Tsitsipas' father wore masks with a caricature of Stefanos on them); both fathers say stupid things (as do their sons)... And I think that both Djokovic and Tsitsipas are sort of tolerated, but not liked or very respected personally, by most of their peers.

by Deuce Can anyone tell me what the purpose of having the winning player write something on the lens of the camera is when the telecast never shows you what was written?
It's completely asinine.
They show us the player writing something - which 90% of the time we cannot decipher because it is backwards to us, and because they often write above and/or below what can be viewed anyway... and the telecast doesn't bother to have a different camera show from the front what the player wrote.

WHAT IS THE POINT OF SHOWING THEM WRITING SOMETHING FROM THE BACKWARDS PERSPECTIVE OF THE LENS THAT IS BEING WRITTEN ON, AND NEVER SHOWING IT FROM A READABLE ANGLE?

This is happening more and more often - several times this week in both Dubai and Acapulco.
Are the people who manage these broadcasts really that incredibly stupid?
It would certainly appear so.

by Owendonovan ^We just need one player to write F. Off and it will end. Just one.

by Deuce

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:04 am ^We just need one player to write F. Off and it will end. Just one.

My money's on Fognini.
Or Kyrgios.
Or Vandeweghe...

by Deuce Marta Kostyuk won the Austin tournament - her first WTA level tournament win.
She did not shake her opponent's hand because Kostyuk is Ukrainian and Gracheva, her opponent, is Russian.
She also refused to mention her opponent in her 'victory speech', and there were no photos taken of the two players together with their respective trophies, as there usually is, apparently at Kostyuk's demand.

Kostyuk also refused to shake Azarenka's hand after their U.S. Open match last year (Azarenka is from Belarus), and has gone on record as saying she won't shake hands with any Russian or Belarusian player.
Kostyuk also refused to participate in a charity event to raise money and awareness for Ukraine simply because Azarenka was also scheduled to participate in the event.

There are divided opinions on this ignoring of sporting protocol. In reading through several articles on the matter of the missing handshake (and there are many articles), I have chosen to include the one below, because it goes into some detail from both sides. It's not the most well written article, but it'll suffice for introducing the subject.

Along with the article, I ask you to submit your perspective on Kostyuk refusing to shake hands with her opponent. Was she right to do this, or was she wrong? And why.

My perspective is that she is wrong to do this, as the sporting field is supposed to be one of fair play and respect. If you don't respect your opponent, then you shouldn't embark on the playing surface to compete against them. If you embark on the playing surface with an opponent, and battle for the win, you should be prepared to play fair and to show genuine respect and shake hands when the dual is finished, regardless of who wins. This is the principle that sport is founded upon, and I feel it should be upheld.

I feel that Kostyuks behaviour is extremely immature. While this is not uncommon for 20 years olds, I'd have hoped that someone around her would help her to see life from a less narrow perspective. Sadly, that doesn't seem to have occurred - at least not successfully.
I can admire the strength of Kostuyk's determination - but I feel she is pointed in the wrong direction.

I can understand that Kostyuk is obviously upset by what the country of Russia is doing to her country of Ukraine. Her anger and sadness is completely justified. That war/invasion is, however, a completely separate issue from a tennis match. And, in refusing to shake hands with any Russian or Belarusian opponent, she has, in effect, brought the war/invasion to the tennis courts, when she had the opportunity to bring peace instead.

What say you?

Kostyuk Wins, Then Ignores Opponent

.

by Suliso Easy for us to pontificate, but I wonder how it was during WWII. Did Americans or Canadians played sports with Germans on a neutral ground and said it's just a game and let's keep politics out? I think the situation is very similar only on smaller scale.

by Deuce

Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:27 am Easy for us to pontificate, but I wonder how it was during WWII. Did Americans or Canadians played sports with Germans on a neutral ground and said it's just a game and let's keep politics out? I think the situation is very similar only on smaller scale.

And so how is it different than any other stereotyping, or guilt by association, or prejudice?
Should irrational and unfair perspectives be accepted or justified - and even condoned - in certain situations?

Unless the individual him/her self is guilty of actions to which one is fundamentally opposed, there should not be a problem. If one views a person as being guilty or complicit simply by birth association, that is blatantly unjust, is it not?

How and when did it come to be that Americans were eventually able to play sports with Germans, Japanese, etc. (and vice versa) without problem? Apparently, people came to their senses at some point, realizing that the people they are competing against - or even playing with - were not participants in the war(s), and so were doing them no harm.

There are still some Americans who harbour hate and resentment toward German and Japanese people (and other nationalities). These people are commonly viewed now as being prejudiced and irrational, and they are condemned. Why should such persons be viewed differently during wartime than they are viewed years after?

by Suliso

Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:39 am
How and when did it come to be that Americans were eventually able to play sports with Germans, Japanese, etc. (and vice versa) without problem? Apparently, people came to their senses at some point, realizing that the people they are competing against - or even playing with - were not participants in the war(s), and so were doing them no harm.

Eventually yes, during the war I'm pretty sure no.

by Deuce

Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 7:01 am
Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:39 am
How and when did it come to be that Americans were eventually able to play sports with Germans, Japanese, etc. (and vice versa) without problem? Apparently, people came to their senses at some point, realizing that the people they are competing against - or even playing with - were not participants in the war(s), and so were doing them no harm.
Eventually yes, during the war I'm pretty sure no.

Most professional sports were halted during WW1 and WW2, were they not? And international sports competition was not as prevalent as it is now. Thus not much opportunity for Americans to compete against Germans, Japanese, etc.

Even more significantly - segregation was still going strong in America during those wars. And so prejudice and racism were rather widely accepted - and was even legal.
Has humanity not evolved and progressed socially since then? It seems that it has. Perhaps Kostyuk's perspectives should evolve, as well.

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:27 am Easy for us to pontificate, but I wonder how it was during WWII. Did Americans or Canadians played sports with Germans on a neutral ground and said it's just a game and let's keep politics out? I think the situation is very similar only on smaller scale.

In the same sense that we (here at the forum) have stated that the Russians and Belarusians, being individuals, should not be singled out for a collective action done by their countries (and we have been clear that they can't even openly oppose the actions of their governments, as they are dictatorial), Kostyuk as an individual has the right to proceed with her actions. She has the right to decide that these other players represent the countries attacking hers, and therefore the very little she can do, she will do.
She has been consistent in her approach. And this, being an exceptional situation, is one that I can accept.

There is a country that has done incredible harm to mine, during our 25 years of dictatorship. I do not mingle with people from that country. it is very hard to swallow.

by Suliso Fidel and friends?

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:38 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:27 am Easy for us to pontificate, but I wonder how it was during WWII. Did Americans or Canadians played sports with Germans on a neutral ground and said it's just a game and let's keep politics out? I think the situation is very similar only on smaller scale.
In the same sense that we (here at the forum) have stated that the Russians and Belarusians, being individuals, should not be singled out for a collective action done by their countries (and we have been clear that they can't even openly oppose the actions of their governments, as they are dictatorial), Kostyuk as an individual has the right to proceed with her actions. She has the right to decide that these other players represent the countries attacking hers, and therefore the very little she can do, she will do.
She has been consistent in her approach. And this, being an exceptional situation, is one that I can accept.

There is a country that has done incredible harm to mine, during our 25 years of dictatorship. I do not mingle with people from that country. it is very hard to swallow.

That approach - and Kostyuk's - does not seem to be many degrees away from blaming all Muslim people for terrorism, or from blaming all Chinese people for COVID-19.
Essentially, it's very near the Trump stereotyping approach.
As I said, I believe that society in general has evolved beyond that point in the past 100 years.
But there are exceptions, unfortunately.

If one feels that it's unacceptable to ban individual Russian and Belarusian players from tennis tournaments strictly due to their nationality, how can one then turn around and accept how Kostyuk is treating these same people?
If one feels that these individuals deserve to be respected as individuals, how can Kostyuk's blatant and vociferous disrespect be acceptable?

Kostyuk, because of her high profile, has the opportunity to do something positive for human relations in respecting her Russian and Belarusian opponents - and even further, by being open to dialogue. Instead, she is taking the approach of two wrongs trying to make a right - which we all know is a selfish, immature, and erroneous approach.

Further, as to her having the right to behave this way... I'm not sure that she does have that right, according to the sporting code. I believe the sporting code mentions that one should treat their opponents with respect. And the sporting code of tennis might even mention that players must shake hands after a match. Granted, exceptions can be made periodically, as we've sometimes seen, for two players who have an active conflict with one another during a match... but is there an exception permitted for ongoing and blatant bias and prejudice against particular nationalities?
I doubt it.

Respecting your opponent is just as important an element as trying your best. Not trying one's best is generally not accepted in sports - it is looked down upon. Not respecting one's opponent should be viewed in the same way.
I agree with the premise that if you take to the court and play a match, you shake hands when the match is completed, win or lose. If you are not prepared to shake hands at the conclusion of the match - if you do not respect your opponent enough to shake his or her hand - then you don't embark on the court to play the match.

by ashkor87 Interesting to note : the active woman player with the most major titles now is Venus! She has 7, equal to Osaka and Swiatek combined!

by ponchi101 I think Venus is going to do what Connors did. Never announce retirement, as a way of saying that he was, and always would be, a tennis player. Venus may do that too.

by nelslus

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:40 am Interesting to note : the active woman player with the most major titles now is Venus! She has 7, equal to Osaka and Swiatek combined!

....AND then if you add in Slam women's and mixed doubles titles....

by ti-amie Spinopsys
@spinopsys@aus.social
Novak Djokovic still hasn't pulled out of the Miami 1000 event and it looks like he may end up in the middle of yet another cultural and ideological stoush over his inability to read a room.

Fascist Florida Governor Ron de Santis is demanding he be allowed to play despite federal rules regarding Covid vaccination and entry into the US.

I can see Novak just showing up and De Santis providing police protection while forcing the tournament to allow him to play because this is the timeline we all live in now #Tennis

https://aus.social/@spinopsys/109990052329296601

by ponchi101 Novak would also have to be allowed to BOARD the plane at any airport he would wish to do so, and that goes against IATA regulations; airlines must ensure that all boarding passengers comply with the regulations of the destination. Any airlines allowing him to board would risk sanctions.

by Owendonovan What say you?
I'm fine with Kostyuk snubbing Russian and Belorussian players. I'm coming at this from an activists perspective. She has a very large public platform and she's using it to keep the awareness of what has happened to her country front and center. Marta is taking the action she feels she needs to make. It's not good sports(wo)menship, but it doesn't seem to be about that for her. Why shake the hand of someone who maintains an allegiance to a country destroying yours for no good reason? She's incredibly brave to me, trying to force other players hands, so to speak, very publicly. It's gutsy.
If the current players from Russia and Belarus were more forceful in their opposition to the war, maybe she would behave differently. They all have the same opportunity to use the same platform as Marta. If every professional Russian athlete denounced the war, that word would spread quickly through Russia and could be the catalyst for the end of Putin and war. I would venture to say they could all easily afford to leave their countries with their families. People often take governments down once an ugly truth is exposed to enough of the people.
If you have a global platform and are passionate about something, use it. I wish I had one. The best acceptance/award speeches are those with some nugget of activism in them.

by Deuce

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:20 am What say you?
I'm fine with Kostyuk snubbing Russian and Belorussian players. I'm coming at this from an activists perspective. She has a very large public platform and she's using it to keep the awareness of what has happened to her country front and center. Marta is taking the action she feels she needs to make. It's not good sports(wo)menship, but it doesn't seem to be about that for her. Why shake the hand of someone who maintains an allegiance to a country destroying yours for no good reason? She's incredibly brave to me, trying to force other players hands, so to speak, very publicly. It's gutsy.
If the current players from Russia and Belarus were more forceful in their opposition to the war, maybe she would behave differently. They all have the same opportunity to use the same platform as Marta. If every professional Russian athlete denounced the war, that word would spread quickly through Russia and could be the catalyst for the end of Putin and war. I would venture to say they could all easily afford to leave their countries with their families. People often take governments down once an ugly truth is exposed to enough of the people.
If you have a global platform and are passionate about something, use it. I wish I had one. The best acceptance/award speeches are those with some nugget of activism in them.

Well... as I've stated several times, I disagree with this perspective - for the reasons I've stated.
Activism must target the RIGHT PEOPLE to be effective. Activism should be fair, and not throw a blanket over ALL people based on an irrelevant common denominator like guilt by association, or nationality, for that is rightly called discrimination, prejudice, unfair bias, etc.
I think far more positivity would be accomplished if Kostyuk respected her Russian and Belarusian opponents, and was open to dialogue. Her current position, to me, reeks of inexperience, immaturity, and ignorance.

How would you feel if I constantly showed you no respect and consistently asked ponchi to ban you from this message board because your brother spit in my face?
I would have had no previous problem with you, and I wouldn't know your perspective on your brother spitting in my face, because I would refuse to talk with you at all after the spitting incident - but I would know that your brother might literally kill you if you stated anywhere that his spitting in my face was wrong.
Would I be justified in my disrespect of you and my attempts to get you banned from this message board? Following your perspective on Kostyuk, you'd have no problem with me behaving in the same manner as she is - complete guilt by mere association.

The fact is that it is potentially dangerous for these Russian (and even Belarusian) players to come out and publicly denounce the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You say "I would venture to say they could all easily afford to leave their countries with their families". Yes - perhaps they can financially afford to do so - but it's obviously not that easy. It's not as simple as a family deciding to move from Oregon to Delaware. In Russia, there are consequences - often severe consequences - for anyone who speaks out against the government or their actions. And that includes consequences for the families of those who speak out.

If Kostyuk would behave this way toward players who openly support the Russian invasion of Ukraine, I would not have a problem with it. But to treat ALL Russian and Belarusian players with contempt and disrespect based solely on their nationality, employing the act of guilt by association, and not based on their character or perspectives or beliefs, is pure prejudice and discrimination - and that's why it's fundamentally wrong.

And I would assume that the Russian and Belarusian players who DO oppose the invasion are reluctant to tell Kostyuk that - for fear that, in her immaturity, she'll blab it all over the media, which would then compromise the safety of the families of those players.
Because of the manner in which she has behaved, I doubt that any Russian/Belarusian players trust her - and with good reason.
As I said - she could have been an important and integral ingredient in helping the situation. But instead, she has chosen to bring all of the wrong of the invasion, and all of its negativity, to the tennis courts.
Two wrongs never make a right, no matter how hard one tries, or how loud one yells.

by Owendonovan

Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:50 am Two wrongs never make a right, no matter how hard one tries, or how loud one yells.

I don't think she sees it as a wrong. She's taken her stand and I respect that. Sure it reeks of inexperience, she was thrown into this completely unprepared because, who thinks their country is going to be invaded? There's certainly a better approach, but we don't know what, if any, discussions she's had with other players.
I can see advertisers becoming more interested in her matches just for the snub moment.(just a cynical aside that popped in my head)
Your points are valid, but I also validate the noise Marta's making. There's a good chance it bites her in the ass, but she's not being sanctioned or anything yet, so she's good for now.
As I've said before, I get the risk of speaking out.

Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:50 am And I would assume that the Russian and Belarusian players who DO oppose the invasion are reluctant to tell Kostyuk that - for fear that, in her immaturity, she'll blab it all over the media, which would then compromise the safety of the families of those players

Good point.
There's too much fear involved, fearful of doing the right thing and equally fearful of doing the wrong thing. It's just a bad situation people got thrown into and are trying to deal with it in a way they can live with themselves.

by Deuce

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:49 am
Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:50 am Two wrongs never make a right, no matter how hard one tries, or how loud one yells.
I don't think she sees it as a wrong. She's taken her stand and I respect that. Sure it reeks of inexperience, she was thrown into this completely unprepared because, who thinks their country is going to be invaded? There's certainly a better approach, but we don't know what, if any, discussions she's had with other players.

^ She has stated on more than one occasion that she does not - and will not - speak or associate in any way with her Russian and Belarusian fellow players.
It's obviously quite difficult to solve any problem when one party completely refuses any discussion or dialogue.

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:49 am I can see advertisers becoming more interested in her matches just for the snub moment.(just a cynical aside that popped in my head)

^ Yes - controversy sells, unfortunately. That's why Kyrgios has always been popular, in spite of his poor results on the court.

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:49 am Your points are valid, but I also validate the noise Marta's making. There's a good chance it bites her in the ass, but she's not being sanctioned or anything yet, so she's good for now.
As I've said before, I get the risk of speaking out.

^ One of my main points is that if one considers blanket discrimination and prejudice and guilt by mere association to be wrong, then it is ALWAYS wrong. You can't pick and choose based on what is convenient for you or on what affects you directly and what does not.
If one feels that blanket prejudice and discrimination against gays or blacks or Chinese or Muslim people - or whatever group of people - is wrong, then what Kostyuyk is doing is wrong.
Conversely, if one finds Kostyuk's actions acceptable, then that same person must also find all blanket discrimination/prejudice/guilt by mere association acceptable.
You can't conveniently pick and choose based on whether or not you are directly affected or not.

by Deuce And with that, Kostyuk is out of Indian Wells in the 1st round - three 7-5 sets to Rebecca Peterson.
And I am happy that the tournament, the fans, and the players won't have to deal with her negative disrespect toward selected fellow players - at least not in singles.

by Owendonovan I view what she's doing more as a boycott than discrimination.

by Deuce

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:57 am I view what she's doing more as a boycott than discrimination.

But she's not merely boycotting Russian cars or Belarusian beer, Owen - she's 'boycotting' individual human beings - people who are her peers in her chosen profession, and with whom she must compete. What she's doing is on a personal level with individuals - individuals who have done nothing to harm her or her country, and whose only 'crime' is having been born in Russia or Belarus. And that is not a crime. But Kostyuk IS treating them as criminals - and is disrespecting them at every opportunity, all based solely on their nationality.
To me, this certainly fits the definition of discrimination and prejudice.

If someone disrespects, avoids, and calls for the banning of Muslim individuals on the basis that some Muslims are terrorists, or of Chinese individuals on the basis that COVID-19 started in China, is that also a justifiable boycott? Or is that discrimination?
I see no difference between that and what Kostyuk is doing.

by ti-amie Kostyuk, in my opinion, knows exactly why fellow players can't say anything publicly re their feelings on the invasion. Azarenka regularly visits family in Belarus. I'm pretty sure many of the Russian players have family there. And yet she persists making loud, public statements and denigrating her peers.

Deuce has a point. No other Ukrainian player has made the public fuss Kostyuk has. Dolgo, no longer an active player, is very vocal on social media but he hasn't attacked any active, or inactive players publicly.

by ponchi101 Stakowski did call out Troicki for playing in Moscow (last year).

Devil's advocate. Can Kostyuk do anything else? Svitolina has called for Russian players to be banned (won't happen), so, as a player, there is almost nothing Kostyuk can do.
And I don't know if her friends and relatives back home would be ok if she does shake hands. "You are shaking hands with the people of the tribe that is bombarding ours".
She is also in a loss-loss scenario.

by mmmm8 As a Russian, I have no problem with Kostyuk expressing her frustrations through the only platform she has. I don't know her mind and I don't know if she is mad at the actual players or is just making a point.

While I'd be sad if a Ukrainian I knew would stop talking to me or get angry with me because of the war, I'd understand. Even if the Russian players or their families spoke out and were persecuted, they'd still be better off than many people in her country that were killed, maimed, or lost loved ones.

It is not uncommon to carry frustrations in moments like this - and beyond. My dad still refuses to consider German cars because of the Holocaust.

by ti-amie

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:46 pm As a Russian, I have no problem with Kostyuk expressing her frustrations through the only platform she has. I don't know her mind and I don't know if she is mad at the actual players or is just making a point.

While I'd be sad if a Ukrainian I knew would stop talking to me or get angry with me because of the war, I'd understand. Even if the Russian players or their families spoke out and were persecuted, they'd still be better off than many people in her country that were killed, maimed, or lost loved ones.

It is not uncommon to carry frustrations in moments like this - and beyond. My dad still refuses to consider German cars because of the Holocaust.

Thanks for this.

Screenshot_20230309-124436.png

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:51 pm Sorry to detour from this serious conversation, and steer to the frivolous side.
Carlitos' shoes:
Screenshot_20230309-124436.png

Head, heart and ... I guess I would have to ban myself for a few hours, at least

It's even funnier if you read this with a Thpanish accthent

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:51 pm Sorry to detour from this serious conversation, and steer to the frivolous side.
Carlitos' shoes:
Screenshot_20230309-124436.png

Head, heart and ... I guess I would have to ban myself for a few hours, at least

Kid's got 'em

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:54 pm Kostyuk, in my opinion, knows exactly why fellow players can't say anything publicly re their feelings on the invasion. Azarenka regularly visits family in Belarus. I'm pretty sure many of the Russian players have family there. And yet she persists making loud, public statements and denigrating her peers.

Deuce has a point. No other Ukrainian player has made the public fuss Kostyuk has. Dolgo, no longer an active player, is very vocal on social media but he hasn't attacked any active, or inactive players publicly.

Sabalenka's little sister is still in Minsk, she adores her. Looks like she was able to see her in Dubai, and I think that's the first time she's been with her since the war began, certainly the first she's posted with her and she used to post all the damn time with her, it seemed to be the reason she went home so often along with the boyfriend. Azarenka's situation/ties are much greater, and therefore worse, in Belarus now because of her (successful) legal strategy in her child custody case. She has visited far more in the last 5 years than she did the 10 years before that because of it. She was darn near a permanent US resident prior to her custody case. Her brother and cousins at the very least are there and yeah, she has to tread lightly especially with her favorable court ruling.

I feel like Kostyuk can do what she wants. I just think her lack of self awareness has led to her not realizing that the tides have turned against her for many tennis fans. Not against Ukraine mind you, just against Marta and her approach to all of this. The not shaking a hand is just whatever to most from what I've seen. If that was it, I think people wouldn't be out on her so much. It's the rest.

by ponchi101 I don't think that we have disagreed that the Russian players cannot really speak out AGAINST the regime, or they will never be able to go to a building which is two stories high. We know how clumsy Russians are when they are in a balcony on a sixth floor.
And Belarusians are in an even mode evil dictatorship.

by Deuce Refusing to acknowledge or respect your fellow competitors, and constantly calling for them to not be permitted to play on the tour (akin to demanding that someone be fired from their job) is a long, long way from refusing to buy German cars.

As I said, as well as bringing the war to the tennis courts, Kostyuk makes the disrespect personal because she is damning individuals.
It's therefore no different than any other type of discrimination/prejudice.

Ponchi asked 'what more can she do?'
She could be civil and humane and choose to be a pillar for peace, and work toward that - especially with her Russian/Belarusian peers who play absolutely no part in the invasion/war, rather than choosing the erroneous path of insisting on bringing more and more negativity to a situation that's already negative.

by ashkor87 Wimbledon has lifted the ban on Russian and Belarusian players for 23..,glad to see that...

by Scoob Moved the post to the serious tennis thread.

by Deuce At least three more in-match retirements today...

We are seeing several in-tournament withdrawals and in-match retirements at every tournament - for the men and the women alike... we're seeing players not shaking hands with their opponents at the conclusion of the match...

Is the overall sportsmanship and respect in our sport in trouble?
Or is this a reflection of the growing selfishness, disrespect, and apathy in general society?

by Owendonovan

Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:47 am Is the overall sportsmanship and respect in our sport in trouble?
Or is this a reflection of the growing selfishness, disrespect, and apathy in general society?

Withdrawals have become, casual.
Society has gotten a lot more cut-throat and technology is the cause/catalyst for the decline in socialization.

by Deuce ^ I agree.

by ti-amie

Deuce wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:47 am At least three more in-match retirements today...

We are seeing several in-tournament withdrawals and in-match retirements at every tournament - for the men and the women alike... we're seeing players not shaking hands with their opponents at the conclusion of the match...

Is the overall sportsmanship and respect in our sport in trouble?
Or is this a reflection of the growing selfishness, disrespect, and apathy in general society?

I expected the level of courtesy and respect to drop but not this quickly. It makes me sad.

by Scoob There is definitely a lot of growing selfishness, disrespect, and apathy that we encounter everyday in everyday life, my hope is they can get it under control in the game of tennis and it doesn't get out of control.

by ponchi101 Dissenting opinion.
Players misbehaving on court.
During a match at Wimbledon, holding match point, his opponent barely got to the ball, tipped it over and, with an open court, Ion Tiriac caught the ball with his hand and said "I can't take this point. This is pathetic". After which he still beat the guy, but did that just to psyche his opponent out.
During the 1977 USO SF, while Corrado Barrasuti was arguing a mark on the har-tru, Jimmy Connors ran over and ran over the mark, laughing at Barrasuti.
At one SF of the now defunct Grand Slam cup, Brad Gilbert and David Wheaton nearly came to blows. Gilbert's explanation? "We are playing for a lot of money".
No need to even bring up Hingis' behavior during the 1999 RG final.

Off tennis.
Any man that would remotely behave like a MAD MEN character will be fired within hours.
Courtesy and manners have gone out the window? How do we explain then the extent in which entire organizations have designated "Safe Spaces", to ensure people are not offended?
Look at how many people apologize publicly, frequently, for things said or done.

Major changes.
In 1914, the assassination of an obscure arch-duke in Sarajevo propelled two world wars in the span of 30 years, at a rate of 140 million dead. Last year, a "super" power invaded a peaceful nation with all its might. Yet, Europe has avoided a full scale wat and has retorted to diplomacy and other means to resolve the issue. So much from not learning from past mistakes.

The claim that "it all went to hell when the generals stopped fighting with the troops" has been around forever. Look around you. When was the last time you had a confrontation with a co-worker, an unknown in the street, a family member? Consider that, and then decide if everything has indeed gone to hell.

by Scoob

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:29 am Dissenting opinion.
Players misbehaving on court.
During a match at Wimbledon, holding match point, his opponent barely got to the ball, tipped it over and, with an open court, Ion Tiriac caught the ball with his hand and said "I can't take this point. This is pathetic". After which he still beat the guy, but did that just to psyche his opponent out.
During the 1977 USO SF, while Corrado Barrasuti was arguing a mark on the har-tru, Jimmy Connors ran over and ran over the mark, laughing at Barrasuti.
At one SF of the now defunct Grand Slam cup, Brad Gilbert and David Wheaton nearly came to blows. Gilbert's explanation? "We are playing for a lot of money".
No need to even bring up Hingis' behavior during the 1999 RG final.

Off tennis.
Any man that would remotely behave like a MAD MEN character will be fired within hours.
Courtesy and manners have gone out the window? How do we explain then the extent in which entire organizations have designated "Safe Spaces", to ensure people are not offended?
Look at how many people apologize publicly, frequently, for things said or done.

Major changes.
In 1914, the assassination of an obscure arch-duke in Sarajevo propelled two world wars in the span of 30 years, at a rate of 140 million dead. Last year, a "super" power invaded a peaceful nation with all its might. Yet, Europe has avoided a full scale wat and has retorted to diplomacy and other means to resolve the issue. So much from not learning from past mistakes.

The claim that "it all went to hell when the generals stopped fighting with the troops" has been around forever. Look around you. When was the last time you had a confrontation with a co-worker, an unknown in the street, a family member? Consider that, and then decide if everything has indeed gone to hell.

As for tennis it just blows my mind that some players behave the way they do while playing a GAME. I understand it is for a lot of money, but it is still a game. I also understand the whole competitive nature thing and getting caught up in all of that, but in the end it is still just a GAME.

As for society you are correct. If anyone in a regular sort of job acted or talked like Nick Kyrgios on the tennis court to their boss they wouldn't have a job. Many people do not respect others and you are also 100% correct that when people are wrong or offend another they cannot man up and apologize for being wrong. It is completely pathetic.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:29 am Dissenting opinion.

Off tennis.
Courtesy and manners have gone out the window? How do we explain then the extent in which entire organizations have designated "Safe Spaces", to ensure people are not offended?
Look at how many people apologize publicly, frequently, for things said or done.

^ The explanation for the above is simple: the influence of the Political Correctness plague.
'Safe spaces' are created because people have become overly sensitive, and perceive everything that is not complimentary as being 'offensive' and 'hurtful'. This is a direct product of the Political Correctnesss plague.
Also - just because people apologize DOES NOT in any way mean that they are truly and honestly sorry. Most often, in my opinion, apologies (especially public apologies) are insincere and are issued for very selfish reasons - like the person 'apologizing' because he/she is afraid that NOT apologizing will hurt their 'image' and/or finances.

Further, I would say that the creation and continued existence of the 'Political Correctness' plague was initiated by the increasing disrespect and selfishness within society. But they've taken it way, way too far - to the point where today, many people are extremely thin-skinned, and if you don't heap praise and compliments on someone today, it is considered 'offensive'.

All that said, there is no doubt in my mind that people in general are more selfish, more disrespectful, and more apathetic today than, say, 20, 30, or 40 years ago. And, as Owen alluded to, I attribute this to the enormous increase in technology - because of technology being everywhere, people - including children - are establishing relationships with machines instead of with their fellow human beings. And even when humans 'communicate' with other humans, it is so often done through the filter of some machine or gadget, which is very impersonal (you don't see facial expressions or body language; you don't hear voice inflections, etc.).
The result is that true socialization - which is accomplished via real human-to-human contact - has been decreasing significantly in place of impostors to communication, and respect and relationships at all levels have been very negatively affected.

by Scoob Back to tennis, I do feel however that the majority of the players on both the ATP and WTA tours are respectful to one another and when we see something like we saw with Donna Vekic today we become sort of alarmed and wonder if this is going to start some sort of trend.

I do agree that players are quick to withdraw(in match) more frequently and some of those withdrawals might be legit while many of the others seem to be suspect and that is a major issue. The main problem with that is that ultimately the players call and if the tour forces the player to play on and they are truly injured that could really become a nightmare for not only the tournament in question, but for tennis.

I don't like seeing players withdraw in matches and especially players that seem to do it frequently, but I also would not like to see just the one time a player plays on and injures themselves further because of a rule added about withdrawing is added.

by JazzNU Y'all are in here talking about the breakdown of respect and common courtesy in society and how the World Wars were started and equal pay in tennis sparked by an article written by Shapo gets moved to Off Court Serious Issues? Color me confused.

by Scoob

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:28 am Y'all are in here talking about the breakdown of respect and common courtesy in society and how the World Wars were started and equal pay in tennis sparked by an article written by Shapo gets moved to Off Court Serious Issues? Color me confused.

That is why my last post I tried to steer it back to tennis a bit.

by Deuce This current discussion is a natural evolution of the discussion concerning the on court behaviour of the players. This occurs frequently both here and on every other discussion board in existence. I see no problem here.
The equal pay discussion was moved to the other thread because that's where that discussion was initiated when Shapovalov's article was first posted two days before it was posted here. And because it's an off court issue.
Simple.

To avoid duplicates and confusion, it would be good if, as much as possible, people would refrain from posting articles, etc. that have already been posted previously - especially if it has initiated discussion when posted previously. A quick check in a relevant thread to see if something has been posted/discussed previously is all it takes.

by Suliso Society has definitely become less violent worldwide over the last 50+ years. Whether it has also become more polite and respectful is up for personal interpretation.

by Deuce

Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:15 am Society has definitely become less violent worldwide over the last 50+ years. Whether it has also become more polite and respectful is up for personal interpretation.

I wonder what the difference in the rates of violent crime is in U.S. cities between, say, 1970 and 2020 - adjusted per capita, based on the growth in population.
That would be interesting to see.
If anyone cares to look it up, feel free to post the results here...

by Suliso It would, but let's look worldwide as well not just US. Also it's on average. One would most certainly prefer Afghanistan of early 70-ties over what it is now...

by Deuce

Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:18 am It would, but let's look worldwide as well not just US. Also it's on average. One would most certainly prefer Afghanistan of early 70-ties over what it is now...

I would say there are fewer wars, assassinations, etc. today as compared to 50 years ago, but also less personal respect among individuals today than 50 years ago.
Of course, the former is much easier to actually measure than is the latter...

When we factor in 'cybercrime' (blackmail, fraud, identity theft, juvenile pornography etc.), which one could argue are crimes of disregard and disrespect for the individual, I think there would be considerably more overall crime today than 50 years ago in pretty much all 'civilized'/'developed' countries.

The thing I'm most interested in is how people feel personally in their day to day lives - because the fact is that's what affects us most - more than wars happening in distant lands. Did people feel that there was more GENUINE respect, courtesy, etc. among the fellow citizens they interact with 50 years ago, or today?
My answer would be 50 years ago (or, in my personal case, 40 years ago, as that's when I was old enough to recognize elements like respect and courtesy).

by Suliso I remember no big difference to be fair. However, it would be useful to ask for an opinion from women and any kind of visible minorities. I think improvement has been more for them than us.

by Suliso Just an example I heard from older colleagues. Switzerland, chemical industry, mid 90-ties. Job applications from women for anything higher than cleaner, secretary, gardener etc. mostly goes straight to garbage bin. 35 years later we're way more inclusive - ca 30% of employees are women including head of the department.

by Deuce

Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 10:33 am Just an example I heard from older colleagues. Switzerland, chemical industry, mid 90-ties. Job applications from women for anything higher than cleaner, secretary, gardener etc. mostly goes straight to garbage bin. 35 years later we're way more inclusive - ca 30% of employees are women including head of the department.

Granted - I don't doubt or deny that.
But I'll counter that with the fact that I (and everyone I've talked with about this) have to fight more and more for pretty basic things (in this culture) that we never had to fight for before - fighting the phone company, the internet company, the cable company, etc. over their increasingly greedy prices and manipulative policies, etc... big corporations buying up smaller businesses, resulting in a much less intimate and personal experience for each individual... customer service basically no longer exists - they don't respect customers - the only thing companies care about is how much profit they can make off of you... the streetlights in the town in which I live burn out now and are not repaired for months and months - this NEVER occurred before... my town essentially no longer even exists - it was officially swallowed up by a big city, and since then, services have gone down the drain over the past 20 years, while taxes have increased at a greater rate than before the takeover...

We have gone from company policy in the 'mom and pop' shops being "The customer is always right" (and valued) to the policy of the big companies and corporations that eliminated them being "The customer is always screwed" (and disrespected).

Elements like homelessness, suicide, drug abuse, etc. have increased dramatically (per capita) over the past 40 years. This is because people feel more despondent and alone and less emotionally connected to others than ever before (the artificial 'communication' methods that have taken over through increasing technology are no match for genuine personal communication and interaction). People are more self-centered today, and less concerned about others (I mean genuine concern, not the 'I give $100 to my favourite charity at Xmas and feel ggod about myself for a whole year' type of distant and convenient 'concern').
We do more and more 'studies' of things like homelessness, drug abuse, and suicide every year - yet all of these things continue to increase at a more and more rapid rate. And so where is all of this so-called 'knowledge' from the infinite number of studies being applied? Of what practical use is it? Is it true learning and knowledge at all, then, or is it merely a bunch of academics patting themselves on the back?
And even if it is true learning and knowledge, it's useless without a genuine concern and compassion for people.

Also, people's interactions online are increasingly rude and disrespectful, and that has certainly spilled out into non-online interactions...

(Ok - maybe now it's time to move this discussion to 'Random, Random'

)

by Owendonovan There's a lot of ways to come at this topic, I'll come from the subway in NYC. People rarely take their backpacks off now taking up a lot of space, more people think they have some right to personal space on a rush hour train(it's not available), people vape, smoke week and cigarettes on the platforms now, I've never seen more turnstiles being jumped, more people begging in stations and train cars, fewer seats given up by younger people to older/pregnant/disabled folks. "Excuse me" doesn't seem to work as often on the folks who stand in the doorway as the train door opens and people try to get by said person (these folks tend to get shouldered by me). How much am I supposed to tolerate before I have to act in my interest?

by ponchi101

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:28 am Y'all are in here talking about the breakdown of respect and common courtesy in society and how the World Wars were started and equal pay in tennis sparked by an article written by Shapo gets moved to Off Court Serious Issues? Color me confused.

Our Cartesian Logic algorithm just developed a bug

I moved those posts just so they would all be together in the same topic. But you are right.
Then again. Us? Going off topic? HERE?! NEVER!!!!

by Scoob I view the whole disrespect issue as something that has grown over the past decade or so because many people don't really know how to interact with others anymore. Most of the younger generations sit behind their phones or computer screens and type away messages and many say what they darn well please when honestly they would never say that to a persons face to face.

When I was younger most of my interactions were face to face and I either dealt with the person right there or dismissed the situation. There was no hiding behind a phone screen or computer screen. The issues were dealt with right up front. So in my opinion, it is because most people and especially the younger generation doesn't really know how to interact correctly with others.

by Deuce

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:49 pm There's a lot of ways to come at this topic, I'll come from the subway in NYC. People rarely take their backpacks off now taking up a lot of space, more people think they have some right to personal space on a rush hour train(it's not available), people vape, smoke week and cigarettes on the platforms now, I've never seen more turnstiles being jumped, more people begging in stations and train cars, fewer seats given up by younger people to older/pregnant/disabled folks. "Excuse me" doesn't seem to work as often on the folks who stand in the doorway as the train door opens and people try to get by said person (these folks tend to get shouldered by me). How much am I supposed to tolerate before I have to act in my interest?

Sure - everything you mention is accurate - and supports my point of less basic respect in general society.
I have no problem being rude to disrespectful people, or holding them accountable for it (I, too, have been known to 'shoulder' people who won't make room for others). I try, as much as I can, to tell the disrespectful person that their behaviour is not acceptable. I don't see this as selfishly 'acting in my own interest' as much as I see it as acting in the interest of society as a whole.

by Scoob As all of this pertains to the game of tennis and the professional players who play the game, there has always been certain sportsmanship things during the match that players or most players have abide by. There is no shouting out by players during the points, no whacking the ball directly at your opponent, and shaking of the hands at the end of the match. Most of the players do follow these rules. Recently though players have been becoming upset with certain players taking liberty in withdrawing from matches during the match. That has led to players not shaking hands at the end of the match. For the most part, I believe the majority of the tennis players respect one another. In the heat of competition some may lose sight of that, but I do think that can happen with anyone who is playing a sport at the level they are playing.

In society we also have rules to follow that pertain to respecting the people we cross paths with on a daily basis. In society however it is on a much larger scale than on the tennis court. Many of the things that Ownedonovan mentioned in the subways should be common sense things that people should use to respect others. One main thing is many people do not use common sense a lot. The thing with younger people not offering their seats to disabled/ pregnant/ or older folks is something that should have been taught to them by their parents. I understand all do not listen, but a lot of it falls on the parents.

As for tolerating it, I am the type of person that tries to avoid this sort of stuff unless the person is obviously in the wrong and says something disrespectful or does something disrespectful. For example, my family was visiting Gatlinburg, Tennessee in the United States when my two daughters were younger. They have a trolley type bus that takes you around the tourist area and we were on it along with another family who had a mother, father, two sons in their 20's and their wives or girlfriends. These locals boarded the trolley bus and began to spout off extremely crude talk. The dad, and two sons asked them to stop talking like that. This just got the two punk teens going even more. They got louder and even worse making comments about the women on the trolley bus. This is when the dad, the two sons, and myself had enough. We got up and just moved our seats in close proximity to them and all just glared at them, begging them to continue on. They did not utter another word, but just sat there with smirks on their faces. During this entire time, I felt so bad for the trolley driver because he was about 80 years old and there was no way he was handling the situation. The next stop the two teens got off the bus and started asking us to get off and fight them. All it would have taken was the dad to get off the trolley and he would have wiped these two punks up and down the street himself. We did not get off the trolley, but as the trolley left they came up to the side of the trolley and spit into the window trying to hit one of the sons. Those are the types of situations, I cannot leave alone.

by ti-amie

by Deuce

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:59 am

But not win it?

by ti-amie He's always made statements like this. Maybe it's a way to keep the pressure off of himself?

by ti-amie Meanwhile Andreescu was up a break but Stearns broke right back and holds for 5-4 first set.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:11 am He's always made statements like this. Maybe it's a way to keep the pressure off of himself?

Manage the pressure.
But there are three slams left.
RG does not suit him
Who can beat Novak at Wimby?
That leaves the USO, where he may have a chance, but it will be very competitive.
So he may be being realistic.

by ponchi101 We have been talking, once again, about retirements in both tours.
So, I was a bit bored and decided to throw some numbers.
NULL Hypothesis: The rate of retirements and walkovers has increased in one or both tours.
ALT Hypothesis. The rate of retirements and walkovers has remained the same.
BEFORE INDIAN WELLS.
WTA: 573 matches. 14 retirements (2.44%) and 8 W/O (1.4%)
ATP: 582 matches, 17 retirements (2.92%) and 5 W/O (0.86%)

The person that was loading the data for all years, and which I used to work out retirements/WO for both tours, has not loaded data for 2022. So, we can only compare to 2021.
WTA (2021): 4.42% rets, 1.1.5% W/O's. The ladies are at a lower pace for retirements, but it is basically the same rate as 2020.
ATP (2021): 2.57% rets, 0.75% W/O's. The gents are basically at the same rate.

Conclusion: There is no evidence to accept the NH.

Side conclusion: we are very, very good at displaying recency bias. And availability bias.

by Deuce I'd like to know how today's numbers for in-match retirements and in-tournament withdrawals compares to the numbers from the 1980s and even the 1990s.
But I have no idea if that information even exists - perhaps they weren't thinking to keep that information back then.

I believe the last time you gave us numbers, it only went back to the year 2000, right? (but I could be wrong about that).

by ponchi101 2000 for the men, 2007 for the women.

by ti-amie OH?

Luca Fiorino
@FiorinoLuca
Matteo #Berrettini giocherà il Challenger di Phoenix la prossima settimana.
Translated from Italian by
Matthew #Berrettini will play the Phoenix Challenger next week.

MD Singles Entry Lists for Phoenix Challenger

Entries
Seed Name Seeding Ranking Entry Ranking
1 (WC) Matteo Berrettini 23
2 (WC) Diego Schwartzman 38
3 Richard Gasquet 43 43
4 Alexander Bublik 46 50
5 Jiri Lehecka 47 52
6 Marc-Andrea Huesler 51 48
7 Mikael Ymer 57 69
8 Emil Ruusuvuori 59 51
Constant Lestienne 62 53
Gregoire Barrere 65 58
Arthur Rinderknech 72 72
Filip Krajinovic 74 67
Roberto Carballes Baena 79 73
Quentin Halys 81 64
Oscar Otte 82 77
Ilya Ivashka 85 79
Alexei Popyrin 101 84
Pedro Martinez 120 76
(WC) Gael Monfils 210
(ALT)
(ALT)
(ALT)
(ALT)
(ALT)
(SE)
(SE)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)

Alternates
Name Seeding Ranking Entry Ranking

1 Ugo Humbert 77 85
2 Daniel Elahi Galan 89 88
3 Denis Kudla 90 89
4 Emilio Gomez 92 91
5 Zhizhen Zhang 93 92
6 Christopher O'Connell 86 94
7 Daniel Altmaier 98 95
8 Roman Safiullin 113 97
9 Cristian Garin 97 98
10 Radu Albot 109 99
11 Thanasi Kokkinakis 94 100
12 Christopher Eubanks 108 102
13 Nuno Borges 80 103
14 Taro Daniel 103 108
15 Matteo Arnaldi 115 110
16 Rinky Hijikata 130 117
17 Aleksandar Kovacevic 107 124
18 Steve Johnson 137 125
19 James Duckworth 114 128
20 Yosuke Watanuki 122 130

Withdrawals
Name Seeding Ranking Entry Ranking

Botic van de Zandschulp 33 34
Sebastian Baez 35 35
Bernabe Zapata Miralles 42 63
Benjamin Bonzi 45 60
Jack Draper 56 44
Jaume Munar 58 66
Alex Molcan 63 54
Pedro Cachin 66 59
Yibing Wu 67 61
Soonwoo Kwon 70 68
Jason Kubler 75 74
Michael Mmoh 83 82

by ti-amie

by ti-amie While ATP players are showing up at the Phoenix Challenger for WTA players there's no comparable option.

by JazzNU Tsurenko's retirement/walkover record that has been the source of discussion. And which she clearly didn't think anyone was paying attention to and didn't expect to get called on about it.

by Deuce ^ ... and for which the current situation in her home country of Ukraine may well be largely responsible, if her words about her mental state are true.
(Relevant discussion in the 'Serious Issues' thread.)

by Deuce Remember when Barty retired abruptly about a year ago, and asked that her name be removed from the rankings, and Swiatek inherited the #1 spot... and many, many, many people were saying that Iga doesn't deserve to be #1...?

Hmmm...

I'd say that she has kind of proven that she deserves it.

by mick1303 I continue to import old Davis Cup results taking them from TennisAbstract site. Noticed couple of familiar last names. Tony Mmoh played for Nigeria in the 80s (maybe related to Michael Mmoh). Michael Tauson played for Denmark. Could be related to Clara Tauson.

by skatingfan

mick1303 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:19 pm I continue to import old Davis Cup results taking them from TennisAbstract site. Noticed couple of familiar last names. Tony Mmoh played for Nigeria in the 80s (maybe related to Michael Mmoh). Michael Tauson played for Denmark. Could be related to Clara Tauson.

Tony Mmoh is Michael's father, and Michael Tauson is Clara's uncle.

by ponchi101 I updated the retirements/WO's for the year after IW.
Combined (Rets + W/O's) both tours are running at around 3.75%.
Full data at the link
docs/Matches%20ATP%20WTA%20Retirements%202023.htm

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:06 pm .1.5% W/O's. The ladies are at a lower pace for retirements, but it is basically the same rate as 2020.
ATP (2021): 2.57% rets, 0.75% W/O

Interesting. Another takeaway - retirements are extremely rare on both tours.

ATP_RETS.jpg

WTA_RETS.jpg

by Suliso Well done! Really shows that the theory of players being less resilient and less committed these days is simply untrue. Possibly except those 3-4 WTA exceptions, but even that could be bad luck.

by ponchi101 Badosa, Tsurenko and Raducanu have their stories.
Raducanu got injured and then tried to come back a bit early. That is a theory, not a fact. But it could explain a little bit her retirements.
Tsurenko is a seasoned veteran, with no prior history of retirements galore. Theory: she is Ukrainian, and is being affected by the war. Untestable, but possible.
Badosa. JazzNu and I proposed the idea that she actually trains too hard. But again, untestable.

We also have the issue of proper stats. So, you get 3% retirements. That (you know this) does not mean that you will get one retirement at match 33, one at match 66 and one at match 99. You know how "clumpy" data are. So, when you get 4 retirements in one single tournament (4 W/O at Dubai WTA, 4 RETS at IW ATP) people start seeing patterns. Which are really not there. This year, in the WTA, there have been 4 tournaments with no RETS or W/O's; we don't notice those.

by JazzNU Iga was set to debut in a new kit at the Miami Open, so that will be delayed, but she announced it the other day. No longer with Asics.

by JazzNU ^^ The other tennis player that this On Running has signed is Ben Shelton. The co-owner of this (new to me) apparel company? Roger Federer.

by mmmm8

JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:10 pm ^^ The other tennis player that this On Running has signed is Ben Shelton. The co-owner of this (new to me) apparel company? Roger Federer.

New to tennis, I think (probably the result of Federer's investment). I think they'd been focused on running before.

by ponchi101 Roger invested in the company when they were barely known and were starting solely with shoes. The moment he bought it the valuation of the company went through the roof.
And seeing as the cheapest shoe they make is around the $150 mark, I gather Roger is very happy with that investment.

by Deuce

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:15 am Well done! Really shows that the theory of players being less resilient and less committed these days is simply untrue. Possibly except those 3-4 WTA exceptions, but even that could be bad luck.

I'll only be convinced it's 'untrue' when I can see reliable data on withdrawals and in-match retirements from the '70s and '80s.
Thus far, I think data has only been presented from the late '90s onward.
I don't even know if they kept such statistics in the '70s and '80s - but if it exists, it would be very interesting to compare it to the present day.

by Deuce I mentioned a few days ago in the coaching thread that Kasatkina's coach of the past 4 years, Carlos Martinez, has separated from her, and claimed that the two disagreed about her priorities away from the court.
I have watched most of her matches this year, and I've commented that she seems lacklustre and apathetic - very non-committed to playing well.

Considering Martinez's comments, and given Kasatkina's very poor efforts on the court so far this year, and her efforts in creating videos with her figure skater girlfriend at every tournament this year, if we are to put 2 and 2 together, it seems to me that Kasatkina is significantly more interested in 'having fun' at tournaments than she is in winning matches.

The videos that she and her girlfriend are making seem to focus on asking other players about cocktails, and are quite immature overall.
Daria is still young - but, despite physically looking like she's 12 years old, she is almost 26 years old, and these videos are immature even for a 25 year old.
It looks like she's decided to forget the maturity and discipline that helped her get into the top 10, and has decided to take advantage of all the privileges that come with being in the top 10, and just have fun instead. And judging by what I've seen of her on court and in the videos, and factoring in Martinez's comments, it seems quite clear to me that lack of responsibility and discipline is her main problem right now; like she just wants to 'have fun' and doesn't care about the consequences.
Her poor play corresponds pretty much exactly with the time that they began doing these videos... And shortly after that, Coach Martinez departed...

I've seen this type of careless, kind of reckless, behaviour, giving up something that one had valued highly, from people who are depressed and/or get into drugs, etc. They get to a point where only surface things matter - they just want to 'have fun', and stop caring about the things (and people) that they once cared deeply about.
Maybe this is linked to the anxiety Kasatkina feels about the Russia/Ukraine situation and the fallout of that which affects her personally (her family, etc.)... And/or it could be some anxiety linked to her coming out as a lesbian and the consequences of that, given that she's Russian... And/or it could be the influence of her girlfriend that is encouraging to prioritize 'having fun' over playing serious tennis.

I think she will soon see that it's impossible to have her cake and eat it, too - that if she slacks off on the responsibility and discipline, her tennis will suffer greatly. It's already happening, but she may still be at the point where she still believes she can somehow have her cake and eat it, too.
She might be in for a rude awakening.

Here's an example of the videos they are doing...

by ti-amie Sigh. I was really hoping that the influence of the girlfriend wasn't involved in her seeming disinterest in tennis.

by ponchi101 Clerc, via ESPN (and you know I don't believe a word he says), reporting that Thiem has said he will go back to the challenger circuit.
If true, I say a wise move. Yesterday's match was a show that he really can't sustain a proper level in a long match.

by ashkor87 I really dont understand the negativity being directed at Pegula because her familly is wealthy. Is it her fault? What do you expect her, or her parents , to do, given that the daughter wants to play tennis and tha family can afford it? I know what I would do - precisely what her family did. If these comments were coming from Cuba or some socialist 'paradise' it may be more understandable but Americans?

by JazzNU

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:18 am I really dont understand the negativity being directed at Pegula because her familly is wealthy. Is it her fault? What do you expect her, or her parents , to do, given that the daughter wants to play tennis and tha family can afford it? I know what I would do - precisely what her family did. If these comments were coming from Cuba or some socialist 'paradise' it may be more understandable but Americans?

I've gone over this many times and I'm not doing it again. It's not the wealth, it's the source of the wealth. And you must be kidding me with it being strange because we're Americans take.

by ashkor87 how far back would you want to go? what is the source of the wealth of the famous Morgans? Or Kennedys?

by JTContinental You don't have to go back at all with Terry Pegula. He made his fortune off fracking and is now divesting it in pretense that has all come from sports teams.

by Fastbackss https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25412161/

Jon Wertheim posted this, study done on effect of grunting. I can't get whole report to load, but to be fair I didn't spend much time trying (and I am only on my phone)

by meganfernandez

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:42 pm https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25412161/

Jon Wertheim posted this, study done on effect of grunting. I can't get whole report to load, but to be fair I didn't spend much time trying (and I am only on my phone)

Right off the bat, I'm skeptical. They had players hit while grunting and not grunting. That introduces an unnatural element - thinking about it, much less doing something different than what they are used to (depending on if they normally grunt or not). The awareness would very likely affect their stroke in some way. The mere idea that they are participating in a study and not playing a match under usual conditions changes the circumstances, too. I believe that change would definitely affect the some component of the stroke and therefore the results are fruit of a poisoned tree. It's pretty hard to study a behavior once the person knows you're studying it. Doesn't that alone most likely alter the behavior? Then to ask the player to consciously alter their behavior (to grunt if they normally don't, or to not grunt if they normally do) - you're not going to get my normal stroke if I'm thinking about it.

The only value this has it to compare the person's two strokes, one hit while grunting and the other hit while not grunting... but you still don't have a good control, which is that person's velocity under completely neutral circumstances.

by ponchi101 All I will add.
In karate, you are not encouraged to grunt as much as to exhale when you are hitting. That loosens you up, so you can generate more speed on your blows. It is not a matter of grunting or not, it is a matter of relaxing when you hit.
When you are hitting tennis balls, being relaxed is very helpful. But it is not the grunting, it is the relaxation you get when you are exhaling.
And it is different to relax when you grunt ala Jimmy Connors (a muffled exhalation by today standards) than relax when you "grunt" ala Michelle Larcher de Brito (a scream that leads to somebody calling 911).

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:37 pm
In karate, you are not encouraged to grunt as much as to exhale when you are hitting.

That's the same for baseball and softball as well.

by Fastbackss The previous information I had seen was exactly that - that grunting essentially allowed you to hit harder because you were exhaling

by ashkor87 The value of coordinating your breath with your movement is well-known to all yoga practitioners. The exhalation just helps you focus your energies at the point of impact. Makes perfect sense

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:06 pm The value of coordinating your breath with your movement is well-known to all yoga practitioners. The exhalation just helps you focus your energies at the point of impact. Makes perfect sense

Key to all high performance athletes. Look at 100 mts speedsters, in slow motion. They will time every exhalation with a landing of every step, or every other step. Otherwise, you run in complete tightness, and lose considerable speed.
The point is: yoga practitioners and speedsters do not grunt. They do so silently.

Today I watched Garin play. Total cheating, in this aspect, as his scream (not a grunt) is always AFTER he has impacted the ball. As Baez did not seem to mind, no real cheating, but we have seen the extreme players that scream when the other player is impacting the ball.

by Deuce My own personal study reveals that tennis fans are frustrated and annoyed by the constant, repetitive noises (often collectively referred to as 'grunting') which comes out of the mouths of certain tennis players.

There's a big difference between exhaling and grunting.
There's a HUGE difference between exhaling and screaming.

by ponchi101 Martina Trevisan has a little notebook (a little PHYSICAL, real notebook) with her in which she has notes about her game.
I DO TOO! I have notes about my strokes in there, and how to correct them

Love at ... some sight.
Nah, don't love her, but it is something I recommend. Keep a little book with how to hit your strokes well.

by Suliso Martina is gearing up for her favorite part of the season. Earlier than expected this year.

by ponchi101 Watched a little of that match. How come there is nobody in the world that can tell Alona: "Hit it just a LITTLE bit softer. Just a little".
She was spraying the ball all over.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:32 pm Watched a little of that match. How come there is nobody in the world that can tell Alona: "Hit it just a LITTLE bit softer. Just a little".
She was spraying the ball all over.

You must be talking about another Alona. The Alona who plays tennis wouldn't pay the slightest bit of attention to someone, anyone, making a suggestion that she hit the ball softer.

by ti-amie

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:52 pm Martina Trevisan has a little notebook (a little PHYSICAL, real notebook) with her in which she has notes about her game.
I DO TOO! I have notes about my strokes in there, and how to correct them
Love at ... some sight.
Nah, don't love her, but it is something I recommend. Keep a little book with how to hit your strokes well.

Maxime Cressy has a (physical) notebook that he looks at on changeovers, as well.
I think his is more about his opponents than about his own strokes, though.

by Deuce .

Leylah Has Struggled Since 2021 U.S. Open, but Has the Grit to Rise Again...

.

by ti-amie

by mmmm8 Interesting about Murray signing with IMG, gotta think he has something notable planned for the future.

by ponchi101 I felt the same. He truly needs no profile boosts, and IMG is very much the big retailer, not a boutique.
I felt he could have gone with Roger or Naomi, and made it more interesting.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I have said it: Sampras would slice him wide on every serve, and volley to the open court. Medvedev would have to modify his return position by several meters.

by ti-amie So it seems that a player has taken it upon themselves to provide WTA entry lists in PDF form on another site. SMH

by Deuce Medvedev would win easily.
Sampras is well past his prime.
.

by ti-amie Maybe the Chinese are really serious about selling tennis to their populace? They've just released a TV drama centered on the sport.

Nothing But You

Song Sang Chuan (Leo Wu) is a budding tennis player in his twenties. He used to play badminton, but has recently turned his attention to tennis after his career stalled. Liang You An (Zhu Yu Tong), meanwhile, is a professional woman in her thirties. Her own career has also taken an unexpected turn – and she decides to take up tennis at a new club in a bid to make a change in her life. She happens to join the same club as Song Sang Chuan…

It's on the Asian focused streaming app Viki.

by ti-amie

by Deuce Has anyone ever noticed that Gauff hits her forehand and backhand with the same side of the racquet (strings)?

by Fastbackss I have noticed that before. I have wanted to check out her "handwork" and that's part of the reason why (the other why her forehand takes so long to develop)

by JTContinental Muguruza has announced that she will be skipping the clay and grass court seasons to spend time with family.

by JazzNU Yeah, I saw that. Seems like a good move for her. She's been very, very quiet on Instagram, which is the opposite of her normal, so along with not playing lately, I had a feeling she was going to announce she was either retiring or taking some time off.

Can't post her announcement because it's on IG Stories for some reason, not a regular post, but she might eventually put something there as well and I'll post it if she does.

by ponchi101 Let's hope there is nothing wrong with anybody in her family.

by JazzNU Kaja Juvan stepping away from tennis to grieve the loss of her father.

by ponchi101 We have seen the same mechanics with other players. Seles and Anisimova come to mind.
Take her time, return when she feels like it.

by Deuce Having lost both my parents less than one year apart a couple of years ago, I hope I see Kaja at a tournament this year and have the opportunity to talk with her.
There are no absolute or universal answers on how to handle the death of your parents, but just sharing thoughts and common experiences can be a positive thing (for both parties).

by ti-amie I think Tiafoe pissed Serena off once too and for the same reason.

by ponchi101 How about the opposite? The doubles players that want to play the qualies or main draws of tournaments? Would that be bad then?

by ti-amie

by Fastbackss I just listened to interview with Reilly Opelka (Shapiro) and he had some pointed comments on doubles. Needs to be blown up as is - had a suggestion of a format that for most tournaments is just 3 days.
Said it doesn't justify the costs and that go into it (for lesser tournaments like 250's) and that doesn't sell tickets.

Not saying I agree but it was interesting to hear his opinion (on many subjects, frankly). Was a good listen

by Deuce Doubles was doomed when they went to the idiotic new scoring system 15 or so years ago.
At the time, I asked many of the doubles players what they thought of the new scoring, and to a person, they all said they hated it.

At the same time, I had an hour long discussion with Gayle Bradshaw (head of ATP officiating) about the new doubles scoring (and about HawkEye/ShotSpot), and he was saying that the new doubles scoring will bring big name singles players like Nadal and Federer into playing doubles. I told him that's total BS - that those guys will play doubles for a couple of token months because Bradshaw would ask them to, then they'd disappear. And that's exactly what happened, of course - it was very predictable.

It's a damned shame, because doubles was a lot of fun in the '70s and '80s, with a lot of top players - both men and women - taking genuine pride in their doubles game.

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:11 pm How about the opposite? The doubles players that want to play the qualies or main draws of tournaments? Would that be bad then?

I think it's different because, presumably, they do put in the effort and take those matches seriously.

by ponchi101

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 3:25 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:11 pm How about the opposite? The doubles players that want to play the qualies or main draws of tournaments? Would that be bad then?
I think it's different because, presumably, they do put in the effort and take those matches seriously.

Ok. I can see that, and it would make a difference.
Then I wonder what the solution for doubles would be. And I have no proper suggestions.

by JazzNU

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:23 am I just listened to interview with Reilly Opelka (Shapiro) and he had some pointed comments on doubles. Needs to be blown up as is - had a suggestion of a format that for most tournaments is just 3 days.
Said it doesn't justify the costs and that go into it (for lesser tournaments like 250's) and that doesn't sell tickets.

Not saying I agree but it was interesting to hear his opinion (on many subjects, frankly). Was a good listen

This feels like a "be careful what you wish for" to me. Getting rid of doubles or greatly reducing it would reshape the sport in ways that singles players such as Opelka haven't fully thought about if I had to take a guess. Also, I don't think Reilly has ever lacked for financial support in any appreciable way, so he speaks from a privileged point of view on several fronts.

by Deuce

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 3:43 pm
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 3:25 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:11 pm How about the opposite? The doubles players that want to play the qualies or main draws of tournaments? Would that be bad then?
I think it's different because, presumably, they do put in the effort and take those matches seriously.
Ok. I can see that, and it would make a difference.
Then I wonder what the solution for doubles would be. And I have no proper suggestions.

If the powers that be would stop treating doubles as a trivial and unimportant afterthought, and began marketing it efficiently, that would certainly help.

by ti-amie Tennis marketing itself correctly? Surely you jest.

by JazzNU

by ptmcmahon Ruud may want to double check Diego's ranking

The way he's been playing this year he might not even win on the challenger.

by ponchi101 He is back on clay, and he just demolished Baez, who is a good clay courter. So maybe, just maybe, he is off the funk.
But I see your point. For somebody that has not been playing well as of late, using other players as an example or early losers was a little bit funny.

by JazzNU Not really. Not withstanding being wrong about Diego's current ranking, he's pointing out that someone like him can return home without much trouble with that 2 week schedule and it not be a hassle, but an American or an Argentinian can't do it as easily.

And I don't think Madrid and Rome serve the same organizational purposes that Indian Wells and Miami do for both tours either, which is not talked about a ton, but a big part of that planning as well.

by ponchi101 I did not glimpse the geography of the situation. You're right.

by ti-amie

I mean can we give these young men a few years to even establish a rivalry worth the name?

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 No Slams defended since 2017. How deep is this tour.

by ashkor87 https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/is ... crossroads
a pretty fair and insightful article, better than Tennis.com' s usual standard! worth a read if you havent seen it..

by ti-amie

by Owendonovan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 12:14 am

I can't help but feel her money has maybe dried up and this is why she's trying to play again. I have nothing to back this up except a feeling.

by Deuce I doubt very much that her money has dried up.
I figure she made much more money showing off her ass over the years than she made on the tennis court.

I think it's pathetic that someone like her is getting WildCards over much more deserving youngsters.
And Protected Ranking? Seriously? Her 'protected ranking' should honestly be about #237.

by ponchi101

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 2:37 am ...

I can't help but feel her money has maybe dried up and this is why she's trying to play again. I have nothing to back this up except a feeling.

She is still signed for apparel and racquets, so her income must not be zero.
And it must be very, very hard for anybody to accept that you are washed up, in something that you have done all your life and in which you were very, very good (lousy players do not have a year like her 2014), at her young age.

by JazzNU

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 2:37 am [
I can't help but feel her money has maybe dried up and this is why she's trying to play again. I have nothing to back this up except a feeling.

You are correct on this. Her money has never fully dried up, but there was a period there where she sort of transitioned away from tennis and tried to be just a regular social media influencer and it was very clear her profile is intrinsically tied to tennis and the offers weren't coming in the way she thought. Nike dropped her and she wasn't signed immediately by someone else, whether that was lack of interest or she thought the offers were too low, not sure. After not taking off, she started posting about tennis again and interest picked up somewhat. She signed with New Balance after that. But during that period away from tennis and to this day, her IG posts are surprisingly lacking in non-tennis sponsorships for someone who clearly thought she had that type of profile. You'd think every other thing she posts was something related to a brand she promotes, but that just isn't the case.

I think this might be her likability and not necessarily having done a ton of legwork to attract the right brands. Poor management is potentially behind this, she should be doing better given her number of followers (assuming those aren't smoke and mirrors). Domi is someone who has fewer followers than her, but is a much more successful and appealing social media influencer in her own country in particular, attracting brands before she retired and many after as well. Her profile is tied to tennis, but her transition was seamless. So Genie's plan wasn't bad or unheard of, but I'm not sure her fanbase actually likes her in the way that is necessary to be a successful influencer.

by Fastbackss

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:36 pm
Fastbackss wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:23 am I just listened to interview with Reilly Opelka (Shapiro) and he had some pointed comments on doubles. Needs to be blown up as is - had a suggestion of a format that for most tournaments is just 3 days.
Said it doesn't justify the costs and that go into it (for lesser tournaments like 250's) and that doesn't sell tickets.

Not saying I agree but it was interesting to hear his opinion (on many subjects, frankly). Was a good listen
This feels like a "be careful what you wish for" to me. Getting rid of doubles or greatly reducing it would reshape the sport in ways that singles players such as Opelka haven't fully thought about if I had to take a guess. Also, I don't think Reilly has ever lacked for financial support in any appreciable way, so he speaks from a privileged point of view on several fronts.

Speaking of Shapiro's podcast, he had another one where he interviews Brad Gilbert, who was taking questions from the crowd. Some expected amusing vignettes, but unexpected was it being "edited by Megan Fernandez ".

Is that our Megan branching out to even more tennis media???

by meganfernandez

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 2:07 am
JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:36 pm
Fastbackss wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:23 am I just listened to interview with Reilly Opelka (Shapiro) and he had some pointed comments on doubles. Needs to be blown up as is - had a suggestion of a format that for most tournaments is just 3 days.
Said it doesn't justify the costs and that go into it (for lesser tournaments like 250's) and that doesn't sell tickets.

Not saying I agree but it was interesting to hear his opinion (on many subjects, frankly). Was a good listen
This feels like a "be careful what you wish for" to me. Getting rid of doubles or greatly reducing it would reshape the sport in ways that singles players such as Opelka haven't fully thought about if I had to take a guess. Also, I don't think Reilly has ever lacked for financial support in any appreciable way, so he speaks from a privileged point of view on several fronts.
Speaking of Shapiro's podcast, he had another one where he interviews Brad Gilbert, who was taking questions from the crowd. Some expected amusing vignettes, but unexpected was it being "edited by Megan Fernandez ".

Is that our Megan branching out to even more tennis media???

Someone finally caught it! Thanks. Yeah, I started editing them in January. I'm a big fan of the podcast and casually acquainted with Craig through media, and he needed someone in a hurry and I'm freelancing. I'm not cutting much. It has been fun to get a sneak preview. There was one recently that he didn't want to "release" at the end because the person is too esteemed and it might have sounded disrespectful. I think it was John Lloyd. We skipped "you are released" at the end.

by ponchi101 Way to go, Megan!

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 3:53 pm Way to go, Megan!

Thanks! I'm earning about $5 an hour, by the way. MAYBE.

It just takes me way too long. I need to figure out what I'm doing wrong and work a lot faster. I think I am fussing over the edits too much and not just cutting out the ums and overtalk and the obviously boring answers. But I'm not doing it for the money.

by ti-amie Earlier today Genie Bouchard posted a tweet (now deleted) that said "There's something about playing dopers in Madrid"

This tweet is still up though.

by ti-amie The replacement tweet. Is this really better than the one that was deleted?

by JazzNU Well okay then. I didn't remember her match again Maria was in Madrid, just remembered she played her soon after she came back.

As for the tweet, I'm guessing her reps are trying to work on her likability and a quote tweet looks better than her original one to them. She's not bringing it up, she's just engaging in the conversation being had.

by ti-amie

JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 8:35 pm Well okay then. I didn't remember her match again Maria was in Madrid, just remembered she played her soon after she came back.

As for the tweet, I'm guessing her reps are trying to work on her likability and a quote tweet looks better than her original one to them. She's not bringing it up, she's just engaging in the conversation being had.

I really don't know if his tweet garnered her response but it seems like it did. Based on responses I don't think she garnered any new fans.

by ponchi101 It garnered so few fans it is no longer available.
Genie, just play. Let the racquet do the talking (or, in her case, the whispering).

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 8:58 pm
I really don't know if his tweet garnered her response but it seems like it did. Based on responses I don't think she garnered any new fans.

An uphill battle for her every time. She's a known quantity at this point and most of us are largely uninterested in the overall product.

by ponchi101 The guys at ESPN are reporting that, starting in 2025, there will be no more line judges at ANY ATP tournament. It will all be electronic.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 3:18 pm The guys at ESPN are reporting that, starting in 2025, there will be no more line judges at ANY ATP tournament. It will all be electronic.

Yes, they have an article up on the site and put it out on social media. It's a strange decision given that they clearly don't have a clay option that is as accurate as the other surfaces and that "testing is underway." So you're making this decision before you've totally solidified the tech assuming it'll be ready in just over a year? Testing has been underway on clay for like 10 years and they still haven't gotten those numbers as high as the others.

A lot of people will be out of work with this decision. Even if it's just part-time or temporary work, I'm sure a decent number of them rely on the income in some way.

by ponchi101

JazzNU wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:27 pm ...

A lot of people will be out of work with this decision. Even if it's just part-time or temporary work, I'm sure a decent number of them rely on the income in some way.

May be $500 that can help with paying the kid's racquet strings. And I am just babbling; I don't know how much a linesperson makes during a tournament.

by Owendonovan Electronic line calling has certainly kept matches moving at a consistent pace. It's also removed a whole avenue of drama which, depending on the person, is a good or bad thing. Is the chair ump. next?

by skatingfan

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:18 pm Electronic line calling has certainly kept matches moving at a consistent pace. It's also removed a whole avenue of drama which, depending on the person, is a good or bad thing. Is the chair ump. next?

I don't think you could get rid of the chair umpire - you still need an official on the court to deal with the unexpected, and with emergencies.

by ponchi101 I did not want the line judges to lose their jobs. But now, I want the chair umpires to be removed.
Put an implacable monolith on the chair. Something that will call you for a time violation when the shot clock strikes 25.1 seconds. That will tell the player "Sorry, Stefanos, I am afraid you can't do that" (of course, use HAL 9000's voice here, or Hanibal Lecter's) when Mr. Coiffure decides to go to the bathroom for ten minutes in between sets. That will call out your violations coldly and methodically, simply reciting the rules and codes to the violating player in the coldest possible way, when they request their 3rd MTO of the game after running down an amazing drop shot like a cheetah.
Some sort of TennisGPT AI that will sit there, immutable, oblivious to the player's needs or whines, and will enforce "THE LAW".
You want electronics on your court? You got it!

(Nah, I want the line judges back).

by ti-amie

Genie Bouchard
@geniebouchard
I want to apologize for my tweet yesterday. It was a lapse in judgment, and unnecessary. Though I’ve always championed fair play, I didn’t have all my facts in order and certainly didn’t mean to cause harm. I’m going to continue to work on myself going forward, both on and off the court.

Reposting like this because the way it cuts off you're giving her clicks when you try and see what the rest of the message is and it's just a heart emoji.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 10:29 pm
Genie Bouchard
@geniebouchard
I want to apologize for my tweet yesterday. It was a lapse in judgment, and unnecessary. Though I’ve always championed fair play, I didn’t have all my facts in order and certainly didn’t mean to cause harm. I’m going to continue to work on myself going forward, both on and off the court.
Reposting like this because the way it cuts off you're giving her clicks when you try and see what the rest of the message is and it's just a heart emoji.

She was getting called out for her Tweet mostly because a lot of people are Simona fans, including several in the tennis community with more clout than the norm, and are butthurt about her suspension and they want her to be the next Yastremska, guilty of the finding, but cleared of most of the wrongdoing and given a shortened suspension. If Simona posts the same tweet and Genie was the suspended one waiting on appeal, it's doubtful Simona would've gotten called out for it.. Almost no one was going to bat for Yastremska when those kinds of shots were being taken at her pre-Halep PED positive test.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 9:53 pm

Any particular point in bringing this up now? I mean, it is not the anniversary (that was at the USO), and it is not as if Connors or Barazzuti are currently engaged in tennis.
Just curious.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 11:37 pm
Any particular point in bringing this up now? I mean, it is not the anniversary (that was at the USO), and it is not as if Connors or Barazzuti are currently engaged in tennis.
Just curious.

It's because of the ball mark in the Davidovich Fokina vs. Rune match. That call was a mess and a preview of the future.

by ti-amie José Morgado

@josemorgado@sportsbots.xyz
MOST WINS in 2023:

Medvedev, 33
Fritz, 27
Sinner, 26

by ti-amie

by JazzNU

by JazzNU ^^ The new normal for this ITF and Challenger tournaments taking place the second week of these long tournaments. Hopefully sometime soon, they'll realize they need to allow for a couple of 250s in the second week of these 2-week tournaments. I can't tell if they didn't see this coming or they didn't care.

by ponchi101 I would go further. I would also allow these 250's you propose, with automatic entry for players that lost in the MS1000 the week before (no need to play the qualies). Otherwise, too long a break for a 1R loser in the MS1000.

by ti-amie Doubles Gate seems less petty than Cake Gate

After the final, Gauff sought out the tournament officials and said she received an apology. “I was told it was a situation that didn’t involve me that happened,” said Gauff. “I’m not going to go into that situation. People probably know what it was. But, yeah, that’s what I was told. I said that situation for me was not deep enough to not have a trophy ceremony. I think that we worked hard to get to that final.

“But I think it was just more about the principle behind it, that in future cases, maybe me or somebody else, criticises the organisation or tournament, maybe deeper than what was said, I don’t know, maybe racism, homophobia, something like that. You can’t just cut, no speech, no nothing. You have to take those criticisms.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... -in-madrid

by Owendonovan What exactly was the reasoning behind not having anyone speak at the final trophy "ceremony".

by ti-amie

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 11:12 pm What exactly was the reasoning behind not having anyone speak at the final trophy "ceremony".

This only happened to the winners of the Women's Doubles. Some think Feli was pissed about the fuss made about cakegate by Vika. I think I posted her comments here and the comments by a tennis reporter who said that she was wrong about the cake and should've spoken offline to Feli or whoever was responsible.

Madrid has always had problems.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

And of course there are those saying that Pegula should just buy the tournament...

by Owendonovan There are some things that happen in this world that make me wonder how much money was wasted on an expensive PR firm handling situations as poorly as this.

by mmmm8

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 12:42 am There are some things that happen in this world that make me wonder how much money was wasted on an expensive PR firm handling situations as poorly as this.

My guess is someone (F. Lo likely) had too much hubris to ask their PR firm what to do.

by JazzNU I know people are putting a lot of this on Feliciano, but I'm going to have to say BS to all of that. You want to control the PR better? IMG owns this damn tournament now and all they do is PR and almost always exceptionally well. This is on them for not handling everything better, they didn't have to step one foot outside of the agency to get that done.

by Owendonovan I agree. IMG is not unlike Kinsey, what they say, goes. Maybe they don't want Lopez there anymore so make him the fall guy? Conspiratorial? Maybe, but Lopez doesn't have what IMG has.

by ti-amie #MMOPEN
@MutuaMadridOpen
"Pedimos sinceras disculpas a todas las jugadoras, jugadores y aficionados que esperaban más del Mutua Madrid Open. No dar a nuestras finalistas de dobles femenino la oportunidad de dirigirse a los aficionados al final del partido fue inaceptable y nos hemos disculpado… (1/3)
Translated from Spanish by Google
"We sincerely apologize to all the players and fans who expected more from the Mutua Madrid Open. Not giving our women's doubles finalists the opportunity to address the fans at the end of the match was unacceptable and we have apologized… (1/3 )

…directamente con Victoria, Beatriz, Coco y Jessica. Estamos trabajando internamente, y con la WTA, para revisar nuestros protocolos y nos comprometemos a mejorar nuestros procesos de cara al futuro. (2/3)
Translated from Spanish by
…directly with Victoria, Beatriz, Coco and Jessica. We are working internally, and with the WTA, to review our protocols and are committed to improving our processes going forward. (23)

Cometimos un error, y esto no volverá a ocurrir nunca".

Gerard Tsobanian, CEO del Mutua Madrid Open

(3/3)
Translated from Spanish by
We made a mistake, and this will never happen again."

Gerard Tsobanian, CEO of the Mutua Madrid Open

(3/3)

by ti-amie This again

by ponchi101 Let's have it by fiat. If the tournament is a joint event, it must have the same prize money.
But the organizers decide if it will be joint. Let the economics talk.

by JazzNU

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 9:27 pm Let's have it by fiat. If the tournament is a joint event, it must have the same prize money.
But the organizers decide if it will be joint. Let the economics talk.

If the ATP were a true partner, they would've insisted on equal pay before approving the move to the 12-day schedule. They didn't have to give them that at all, leave them out until they get with the times.

by ti-amie Don't forget how the WTA burned the ATP with regards to their participation in what was "TennisTV" including the WTA. Corporations may not be people but they have long memories.

by JazzNU

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 1:04 am Don't forget how the WTA burned the ATP with regards to their participation in what was "TennisTV" including the WTA. Corporations may not be people but they have long memories.

I don't know that story. But regardless, ATP says themselves they are a partner of the WTA, they have actively partnered on many things in the last few years. This isn't a controversial, go against he Chinese government/tennis federation kind of thing, it's something that would've been good for them to do and they could've gotten great PR from it as well.

by ti-amie

by Owendonovan "French tennis player Hugo Gaston’s unsportsmanlike conduct draws $155K fine; tops his 2023 earnings"

LONDON (AP) — French tennis player Hugo Gaston was fined 144,000 euros (about $155,000) by the ATP Tour — more than he’s collected in prize money so far in 2023 — for pulling a ball out of his pocket and throwing it on the court during a point in an attempt to get a do-over, his fourth unsportsmanlike conduct violation this season.

The tour announced its ruling on Monday, saying that Gaston’s appeal of the punishment got it reduced by half, to 72,000 euros (about $77,500), as long as he meets certain conditions, including no additional violations during a probationary period of a year.

The ATP said unsportsmanlike conduct fines “increase by 100% with each consecutive violation in the same season.”

Gaston has made a little more than $120,000 in prize money this year while going 2-5 on tour. He is a 22-year-old left-hander who has been ranked as high as 58th and is currently 108th.

The fine was prompted by Gaston’s attempt to get the chair umpire to call off a point and replay it during his 6-3, 6-3 loss to Borna Coric in the second round of the Madrid Open on April 28.

Last week, the French Tennis Federation awarded Gaston a wild-card entry into the French Open, which begins on Sunday. The best Grand Slam showing of his career came at Roland Garros in 2020, when he reached the fourth round there. He made it to the third round in Paris a year ago.
https://apnews.com/article/fine-prize-m ... bbb5c0b490

7 matches 4 unsportsmanlike conduct. How charming. Here's your wildcard, that'll about take care of your fine, just show up for the first round.

by ashkor87 Not a good look for the tournament, I agree

by mmmm8

JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 12:57 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 9:27 pm Let's have it by fiat. If the tournament is a joint event, it must have the same prize money.
But the organizers decide if it will be joint. Let the economics talk.

If the ATP were a true partner, they would've insisted on equal pay before approving the move to the 12-day schedule. They didn't have to give them that at all, leave them out until they get with the times.

I don't think even the ATP would say they are a true partner of the WTA. They are a for-profit organization separate of the WTA with different goals and stakeholders. There has to be an incentive besides "we're nice" to drive their behavior in favor of female players.

by ti-amie Mikael Ymer was dq'd from a match today after the chair refused to check a mark on a call he disputed and he hit the umpire's chair in frustration.

by ponchi101 I would agree with such a dq'd; there has got to be a line.
But: why did the chair refuse to check the mark?

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 8:09 pm I would agree with such a dq'd; there has got to be a line.
But: why did the chair refuse to check the mark?

There was a big discussion about this earlier today on Tennis Mastodon with many saying that if the chair had been Mo or Bernardes they would've come down and checked even if the call wouldn't be overturned. I'll try to find it because some blamed the inexperience of the chair at the top level of tennis.

by ti-amie

José Morgado

@josemorgado@sportsbots.xyz
I would say exactly the same if it was Bernardes or Lahyani.

I don't have any special relationship with Rogério, who doesn't do a lot of chair at ATP level but is a very experienced ATP Supervisor who works in the biggest tournaments of the tour (saw him in Madrid, for example).

by ti-amie

For once I agree with Ben

by Owendonovan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 2:43 am

For once I agree with Ben

All the makings for a race issue if not handled appropriately.

by ponchi101 Give him the same treatment as Zverev.
Announce a policy, FROM NOW ON, that will be standard for this sort of behavior.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 2:44 pm Give him the same treatment as Zverev.
Announce a policy, FROM NOW ON, that will be standard for this sort of behavior.

Don't hold your breath.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I just saw a bit of Rybakina's match. She is playing with YONEX clothing.
Did Adidas drop her? Because I can't see Yonex being able to pay more money than Adidas, and dropping her at the moment would be one incredibly bad move.

by ti-amie

José Morgado
@josemorgado@sportsbots.xyz
Alcaraz. “Some people say that I have shots from Nadal, Djokovic and Federer but it’s normal cause those were the players that I watched for 20 years (his age ). But I like to believe I’m 100% Alcaraz, not a copy of anyone”.

In other words don't define me, I'll define myself. Back off.

by ponchi101 Dear Carlitos:
I have been watching ROGER, RAFA, NOVAK, PETE, STEFAN, IVAN, JIMMY AND BJORN for all my life, and I have NONE of their shots.
Sincerely,
Us Mortals.

by ponchi101 For many years now, there has been a lot of talk about the USA being unable to produce champions, especially on the men's side. A lot of the "solutions" include setting up more clay courts, because "clay court players learn the game in a better way".
How about the French, then? No French players, male or female, in the 3rd round of RG. Down from 2 men and 2 women last year, and two of those were Cornet and Simon, no newcomers to the game.
And the French invest a lot of money in the game, and it is wildly popular in the country.

by ponchi101 Throwing this down here, now that it is clear that the ATP is ruled by Novak.
What do we make of Carlitos? Sure, he is spectacular. He will be part of the future of the ATP when Novak retires. But, having said that:
Look at the last year, since his USO run. Injured at Paris, forcing him to miss the YEC and the Aussie. He comes back, plays well, and then injures himself in Rio, missing a little time there. And then, he cramps in the RG SF and we saw what happened.
Could it be that his maniacal way of playing is too much? When you spend 1.5 times the energy of the other player, that must take a toll.
Just saying this because his loss at Paris was odd. He said his entire body cramped; that is not "an injury", in the normal sense. But, of course, how does he change that style? It is the way he plays.

by mmmm8

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 2:56 pm Throwing this down here, now that it is clear that the ATP is ruled by Novak.
What do we make of Carlitos? Sure, he is spectacular. He will be part of the future of the ATP when Novak retires. But, having said that:
Look at the last year, since his USO run. Injured at Paris, forcing him to miss the YEC and the Aussie. He comes back, plays well, and then injures himself in Rio, missing a little time there. And then, he cramps in the RG SF and we saw what happened.
Could it be that his maniacal way of playing is too much? When you spend 1.5 times the energy of the other player, that must take a toll.
Just saying this because his loss at Paris was odd. He said his entire body cramped; that is not "an injury", in the normal sense. But, of course, how does he change that style? It is the way he plays.

He said essentially that the full-body cramp was nerves rather than purely physical

by ti-amie

by skatingfan After seeing Raonic win a match I wondered whether we'd ever see Nishikori on a tennis court again - good to see.

by ashkor87 Swiatek was a junior champion at W, in fact the only major she won as a junior..so we can't say she doesn't know how to play on grass...Snigur was junior W champ too..let us hope for good performances from her..

by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 12:29 am After seeing Raonic win a match I wondered whether we'd ever see Nishikori on a tennis court again - good to see.

The return of the lost generation! Paging Berdych!

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:28 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 2:56 pm Throwing this down here, now that it is clear that the ATP is ruled by Novak.
What do we make of Carlitos? Sure, he is spectacular. He will be part of the future of the ATP when Novak retires. But, having said that:
Look at the last year, since his USO run. Injured at Paris, forcing him to miss the YEC and the Aussie. He comes back, plays well, and then injures himself in Rio, missing a little time there. And then, he cramps in the RG SF and we saw what happened.
Could it be that his maniacal way of playing is too much? When you spend 1.5 times the energy of the other player, that must take a toll.
Just saying this because his loss at Paris was odd. He said his entire body cramped; that is not "an injury", in the normal sense. But, of course, how does he change that style? It is the way he plays.
He said essentially that the full-body cramp was nerves rather than purely physical

I heard someone say that Djokovic is hospitalizing 20-year-old No. 1s. Great way to put it. So yeah, Novak is ruling the ATP,

by ponchi101 Interesting stat that we have not discussed here. Novak is on a 21 match winning streak: W, AO and RG (because he did not play the USO). Winning W will make it 28. To win the USO, he needs to go 35.
I will still not bet against him.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 3:34 pm Interesting stat that we have not discussed here. Novak is on a 21 match winning streak: W, AO and RG (because he did not play the USO). Winning W will make it 28. To win the USO, he needs to go 35.
I will still not bet against him.

More than 35 if he plays a tuneup. He usually plays Cincy at least. He can do it. He'll have to manage his energy for the US Open, though. People said he was pretty tired by the 2019 final.

by ponchi101 I meant 21 winning streak IN SLAMS. He has lost at other tournaments.
There are two Novaks: regular tour Novak (not completely invincible) and SLAMS NOVAK. Considerably tougher.

by Fastbackss

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 4:32 pm I meant 21 winning streak IN SLAMS. He has lost at other tournaments.
There are two Novaks: regular tour Novak (not completely invincible) and SLAMS NOVAK. Considerably tougher.

Roddick always talks about this, especially in reference to the Bo5

"Novak - first he takes your legs, then he takes your soul"

by Owendonovan He can never be the ambassador to the sport of tennis the greatest should be though.

by ponchi101 But that is a completely different conversation.
However.
Despite some rocky things in his private life, and that is between Jelena and him, he has been a good person. No scandals of relevant magnitude, and he seems to be well liked back home. His dedication to the sport cannot be denied; he has given everything.
He is an icon for the alternative-medicine camp, so he has his crowd there.
And. If Agassi and Connors could become later in life icons for the sport, Novak can certainly change that too

by nelslus

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:29 pm But that is a completely different conversation.
However.
Despite some rocky things in his private life, and that is between Jelena and him, he has been a good person. No scandals of relevant magnitude, and he seems to be well liked back home. His dedication to the sport cannot be denied; he has given everything.
He is an icon for the alternative-medicine camp, so he has his crowd there.
And. If Agassi and Connors could become later in life icons for the sport, Novak can certainly change that too

OK, THIS is straining to go too far to play any kind of devil's advocate concerning Novak. At the very least, his COVID stance and COVID-inducing private event is of "relevant magnitude". (And, Connors especially is no kind of icon to many of us.)

by ponchi101 He was not unique in his COVID stance. He was part of a large group of people that went the witchcraft route (see, RODGERS, AARON; IRVING, KYRIE, and many other). So he cannot be held responsible as the sole person that pushed false ideas (and I said he is an icon to the alt-medicine crowd, which I am always against).
About Connors. He is a respectable elder of the sport now. But you are assuming that everybody has YOUR memory. Sure, I do recall the Barrazzutti event at the USO, but remember: we are the geezers here.
About Agassi. I guess that to say that everything was forgiven is very close to the truth. Imagine anybody else saying what he said after his first Boris Becker victory nowadays. In how many ways could a person be crucified?

Listen. I will never like Novak. Not in my blood. But a good PR firm can turn that image around in a couple of years, and people will be crying their eyeballs out when the GOAT retires, playing his last match in Belgrade at age 42, in front of his loving crowd.

by ti-amie I know you don't use Elmo's site but the response to Djokovic achievement was underwhelming from tennis fans, non media, from what I could see. A PR firm has a steep hill to climb to turn that around.

by ti-amie

Just - whoa. That backhand.

by ponchi101 Biomechanical perfection.

About Novak. Yes, the response was muted; I would also want to see the ratings for the final (remember that for the Aussie, the final was the least watched final in ages).
And, I will admit: Agassi and Connors had the advantage of being Americans (that counts) to then overcome their initial "these punks" hurdles. AND, they retired not being dominant, and people will always fall for the "Former Champion in his last legs" tale.
Remember the standing ovation Pete got AFTER he had announced retirement, in that ceremony at the USO. Sure, he was never disliked, but he was not the people's favorite (JazzNu and myself not withstanding

)

by nelslus

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 9:58 pm He was not unique in his COVID stance. He was part of a large group of people that went the witchcraft route (see, RODGERS, AARON; IRVING, KYRIE, and many other). So he cannot be held responsible as the sole person that pushed false ideas (and I said he is an icon to the alt-medicine crowd, which I am always against).
About Connors. He is a respectable elder of the sport now. But you are assuming that everybody has YOUR memory. Sure, I do recall the Barrazzutti event at the USO, but remember: we are the geezers here.
About Agassi. I guess that to say that everything was forgiven is very close to the truth. Imagine anybody else saying what he said after his first Boris Becker victory nowadays. In how many ways could a person be crucified?

Listen. I will never like Novak. Not in my blood. But a good PR firm can turn that image around in a couple of years, and people will be crying their eyeballs out when the GOAT retires, playing his last match in Belgrade at age 42, in front of his loving crowd.

Dude. WHO is saying that Novak is the SOLE person pushing false ideas?!?! I mean, for sure, Aaron Rodgers is a fellow a-hole. I don't know Kyrie Irving- so I'll let others judge his a-hole worthiness. So, sure, there are clearly tons of a-holes in the world- and, if they want to worship at the Shrine of Novak- have at it. But, he is an especially huge champion and influencer, who very well may have done a ton of damage. President of Serbia, pushing the red button to end the world eventually- could be. So, I think that many of us will always be disrespecting Novak.

Connors? You think that Barazzutti is his only time being an a-hole on the court?!?!? He was often a very poor sport, with plenty of poor sportsmanship activity, for a long time in tennis. Google it- plenty of YouTube examples- including calling Lendl, of all people, a "f***ing f**got playing pusher"- "f**got" being a charming term he used over and over again during his career, among other curses and insults. In his own 2014 autobiography, among other gems, he outed Evert for her abortion (which apparently was done before they were supposed to get married)- as he never consulted with her about writing about this. He was deeply disrespectful about Ashe in his book- proving that he has his head so far up his own a**, that he has no insight or self-awareness to even consider that, regardless of their animosity (and Ashe, to be fair, had some very problematic views about women and female tennis players, btw, until he had some daughters), Ashe did a ton of good and humanitarian efforts- which Connors has not. Connors' only "recent" contribution was to coach Roddick to be a Connors-lite failed braggart for a time in his career. I'd argue that, Connors, very understandably, is a forgotten champion, especially with the youngsters. But, for anyone who takes any kind of true look at Connors- they'll see a lot of ugliness. Keep in hibernation, Jimbo.

Agassi also had some time using the charming "fa**ot" comment, and other early really, really bad moments. And, I know Connors has a lot of animosity about Agassi. But- regardless of whether or not Agassi truly is a "good guy" or not- he did behave much better in his later career, and he's made a lot of charitable efforts.

by ponchi101 I brought up ONLY the Barrazzuti event as a ONE EXAMPLE thing. That Connors behaved, through his career, like the boor he was is not what I am questioning, because he was a boor. His behavior on court was terrible.
But, my point is: ALL THAT HAS BEEN FORGOTTEN BY THE GENERAL PUBLIC. Not you, not me. To the general public, he is "Jimmy Connors, Tennis Legend, 5 times USO champion". I told you above: do not expect the general public to have the same memories of Connors as you do because the general public is not as detailed as you are.
So, I say: a good PR agency can regenerate Novak's image, IF HE COOPERATES. Will YOU ever come to his side? Hard to see, right? Nor will I. At the moment, he seems to me to be a player that, the moment he stops playing, will be dropped by several endorsements (not all).
I am talking about PR here; spins and BS. Those people are good at that. I am not saying that all of the sudden Novak is going to become everybody's favorite player EVER, because there are some people like you and I that will remember all the bad stuff. You are making the case yourself: Agassi did a lot of charity and I will believe he is honest in that, because he still does (with Steffi), so following a similar path, Novak can ingratiate himself to more people.
All I am saying.

by ti-amie

Paywalled. Those who have read it say it's pretty much an ad for Dior so maybe we're not missing much?

by skatingfan Even the King asked her about her coach?

by ti-amie

skatingfan wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:26 pm Even the King asked her about her coach?

Look

by ti-amie This started out as a very interesting conversation between Andy Roddick and Big Sascha (Bajin). Then fans got involved and they stopped talking publicly. UGH.

by ti-amie

Bagels and Breadsticks 6061
@Anthony606061
Why is effort as a player a prerequisite for being an effective coach, Andy?
What about coaches who are great at conveying and implementing technical information? For example, one of my sons has an ex-pro coach who is a stickler for technique, and has really helped my son with technical execution. He pinpoints problems and is really meticulous. But I have no idea what his work ethic was as a player. He might have been lazy as hell!

The Craig Shapiro Tennis Podcast
@Shaptennispod
Xavier Malisse and others on my show said something similar, that he realized he didn’t max his potential and feels that he has a lot of knowledge and wisdom to impart on today’s players.

Then fans wanted names named.

by ponchi101 I have always felt that the super talented make bad coaches.
How can Pete teach that serve? It was completely natural; he could unleash it at will. How about Roger teaching a FH? "Oh, do it THIS way". How? It was something that belonged to him.
The great coaches, I think, have to know, beyond intuition, how to hit a stroke. And for that, you need to have learned it, not be born with it.
Look at Ferrer. I think he would be an excellent coach: he was made in so many ways.

by ti-amie I always think of Michael Jordan when this topic comes up. There is no way he can teach anyone to do what he did on court. Meanwhile Steve Kerr, who played with him, watched and learned, like Bajin said, how to do the work.

The same applies with any sports legends. Cristiano Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Messi, and as mentioned Sampras and Federer, none of them can teach what they do.

A person with a Kerr-like personality is rare. That is what I think Roddick was trying to say.

by Fastbackss

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:44 pm I have always felt that the super talented make bad coaches.
How can Pete teach that serve? It was completely natural; he could unleash it at will. How about Roger teaching a FH? "Oh, do it THIS way". How? It was something that belonged to him.
The great coaches, I think, have to know, beyond intuition, how to hit a stroke. And for that, you need to have learned it, not be born with it.
Look at Ferrer. I think he would be an excellent coach: he was made in so many ways.

David Samson (former Marlins executive) has oft spoke of how Barry Bonds was the worst hitting coach they had. He couldn't articulate what he " saw" innately that created his gift, and then would get frustrated when others couldn't do it

by ashkor87 Happens in music too .so many good teachers who cannot perform, and conversely, good performers who cannot teach..I have been singularly blessed..my guru is a great singer AND she teaches even a clod like me to sing...

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I hope he can play Tokyo in good form and retire there.
Because I see him talking to Thiem and saying "this is tough, you know?"

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 He basically "made" the tournament, by going there instead of to Queens.
And I know, he was paid handsomely. But still, Halle would not be tournament it is today.

by meganfernandez Murray left off Wimbledon promotional portrait of rivals and the family is going mad! Pete's also not there - was his rivalry with Becker big enough? Was Becker his biggest rival at Wimbledon? He and Agassi didn't play much there, right?

The painting couldn't be comprehensive, but Murray seems like a glaring omission, all things considered. Someone at the AELTC hates him.

https://www.the-sun.com/sport/8421010/a ... sh-tennis/

by ponchi101 Pete and Andre played there once, the 99 final. Not much of a rivalry on grass.
I say that Murray should have made the portrait because he is the last Brit to have won it. But, as you say, Pete is not there. Steffi is not there. BORG is not there (!?)
.
It is a promotion for the new generations, because Alcaraz and Sinner, two players that so far have done nothing at Wimbledon (except choke a huge 2-0 lead) are prominently displayed. And NO CURRENT women are there, unless you accept that, at the top of the stairs, Iga and Elena are coming down.
What were they going to do? Paint in 50 players? So, right now, Murray not being in that portrait is a very small story. To me.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 4:45 pm Pete and Andre played there once, the 99 final. Not much of a rivalry on grass.
I say that Murray should have made the portrait because he is the last Brit to have won it. But, as you say, Pete is not there. Steffi is not there. BORG is not there (!?)
.
It is a promotion for the new generations, because Alcaraz and Sinner, two players that so far have done nothing at Wimbledon (except choke a huge 2-0 lead) are prominently displayed. And NO CURRENT women are there, unless you accept that, at the top of the stairs, Iga and Elena are coming down.
What were they going to do? Paint in 50 players? So, right now, Murray not being in that portrait is a very small story. To me.

I'm coming around to the Murray-less argument, but he might deserve to be there over Nadal. Both are two-time winners, and I think of them as equal rivals to Novak and Roger at Wimbledon. It would have been just as controversial to leave out Nadal, but at least Murray is in the draw this year.

Borg-Mac omission is weird.

Good observation about Sinner-Alcaraz and the demo.

by ti-amie The 2008 Wimbledon Men's Final is still consistently voted as the best match ever. There is no way they could leave Rafa and Federer out. I question them making what was a duopoly - Federer and Nadal, into a triumvirate putting Djokovic with them.

Murray carried British tennis for years and I don't understand why he's not included.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:38 pm The 2008 Wimbledon Men's Final is still consistently voted as the best match ever. There is no way they could leave Rafa and Federer out. I question them making what was a duopoly - Federer and Nadal, into a triumvirate putting Djokovic with them.

Murray carried British tennis for years and I don't understand why he's not included.

Maybe they knew this would cause a ton of red-hot debate and that was the point of the poster. It's promotional, after all.

Djokovic is 2nd to Roger with 7 titles, and given his current status, I think it would have been worse to leave him out than Murray.

by ti-amie

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:44 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:38 pm The 2008 Wimbledon Men's Final is still consistently voted as the best match ever. There is no way they could leave Rafa and Federer out. I question them making what was a duopoly - Federer and Nadal, into a triumvirate putting Djokovic with them.

Murray carried British tennis for years and I don't understand why he's not included.
Maybe they knew this would cause a ton of red-hot debate and that was the point of the poster. It's promotional, after all.

Djokovic is 2nd to Roger with 7 titles, and given his current status, I think it would have been worse to leave him out than Murray.

They could've shown him walking down the stairs but now that I think about it if they put him before them fans will scream. If they put him behind them fans will scream.

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 4:45 pm BORG is not there (!?)

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 5:51 pm Borg-Mac omission is weird.

Borg & MacEnroe are in the picture. Starting from the top of the stairs the players are Rybakina & Swiatek, Williams Sisters, Becker & Edberg, Borg & MacEnroe, Evert & Navratilova, Djokovic, Federer & Nadal, and Sinner & Alcaraz.

by mmmm8 It's The Sun, I'm sure no one is actually fuming in real life.

Anyway, should have just been a portrait of Isner and Mahut

by mmmm8 The real sin is putting women in the back and two guys who haven't done anything on grass up front

by skatingfan

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2023 9:18 pm The real sin is putting women in the back and two guys who haven't done anything on grass up front

Yes, but also the two women have never played each other at Wimbledon, and I don't know who the grass-court women's rivalry is right now - Alcaraz vs Sinner at least actually happened.

by ti-amie

by Owendonovan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:38 pm The 2008 Wimbledon Men's Final is still consistently voted as the best match ever. There is no way they could leave Rafa and Federer out. I question them making what was a duopoly - Federer and Nadal, into a triumvirate putting Djokovic with them.

Murray carried British tennis for years and I don't understand why he's not included.

AELTC might just be being petty because Murray identifies as a Scotsman, not an Englishman.

by ponchi101

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 11:30 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:38 pm The 2008 Wimbledon Men's Final is still consistently voted as the best match ever. There is no way they could leave Rafa and Federer out. I question them making what was a duopoly - Federer and Nadal, into a triumvirate putting Djokovic with them.

Murray carried British tennis for years and I don't understand why he's not included.
AELTC might just be being petty because Murray identifies as a Scotsman, not an Englishman.

Only when he losses...

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez Clearly out

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 10:56 pm

by JTContinental Jeremy Chardy has retired

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 About Chardy. A true professional.
Never a contender at a slam, but a person that put a very decent career through the years.

by nelslus

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:10 pm

We'll be seeing Kei in Chicago next week. Very much looking forward to this.

by Fastbackss Hopefully you buy tickets early. I waxed poetic to anyone who would listen about this tournament coming to the area, but didn't buy tickets early because I wasn't sure what day I could go.

Went to buy tickets Monday and there was ONE ticket left - wasn't going to work when I intended to bring one of the progeny.

Ended up having to buy him lunch, which was way more expensive

by meganfernandez who owns Wimbledon - or rather, the AELTC, the entity that owns Wimbledon? Is it privately owned? Is it a nonprofit run by a board of directors?

by nelslus

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 2:05 am Hopefully you buy tickets early. I waxed poetic to anyone who would listen about this tournament coming to the area, but didn't buy tickets early because I wasn't sure what day I could go.

Went to buy tickets Monday and there was ONE ticket left - wasn't going to work when I intended to bring one of the progeny.

Ended up having to buy him lunch, which was way more expensive

My partner John already purchased all of our tickets. Probably not necessary- as previously, we had no problems just showing up and purchasing tickets for the same day, and/or for that year's tournament. This Chicago tournament has not proven to be real good with publicity these past few years. Today is the first day we finally found a site for 2023. We've also figured out to bring lunches with us each day. NOT a lot of decent food options. AND Porta-potties- always my favorites.

I also doubt we'll go every day. But, the tickets this year are reasonably cheap. This year, they have all of these "Box Seat" and "Special" options. Bump all of that- we'll figure out where to sit.

by skatingfan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 3:21 am who owns Wimbledon - or rather, the AELTC, the entity that owns Wimbledon? Is it privately owned? Is it a nonprofit run by a board of directors?

The day-to-day operations of The Championships are led and conducted by the AELTC.

The AELTC is a wholly owned subsidiary of The All England Lawn Tennis & Croquet Club Limited ("the Club") and, on 1 August 2011, acquired all the assets and undertaking of the Club in relation to The Championships.

The All England Lawn Tennis Club (Championships) Limited, Church Road, Wimbledon, Tel: +44 (0)20 8944 1066

The Board: I.L Hewitt (Chair), Ms D A Jevans C.B.E (Vice-Chair), Ms S.J Ambrose, R.A Baker, Ms A Keothavong M.B.E, The Lord O'Donnell GCB KCB CB, K.J Havelock. T.H Henman O.B.E, S.A Jones L.V.O, R.T Stoakes, A.J.K Tatum, The Hon H B Weatherill.

Directors: S. Bolton O.B.E (Chief Executive), R.G Atkinson (Financial Director), M.J Dite (Operations Director), M.W.C Guntrip (Club Director), W.R Jinks (IT Director), U. Al-Qassab (Marketing and Commercial Director)

https://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/atoz/about_aeltc.html

by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 4:23 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 3:21 am who owns Wimbledon - or rather, the AELTC, the entity that owns Wimbledon? Is it privately owned? Is it a nonprofit run by a board of directors?

The AELTC is a wholly owned subsidiary of The All England Lawn Tennis & Croquet Club Limited ("the Club") and, on 1 August 2011, acquired all the assets and undertaking of the Club in relation to The Championships.

The Board: I.L Hewitt (Chair), Ms D A Jevans C.B.E (Vice-Chair), Ms S.J Ambrose, R.A Baker, Ms A Keothavong M.B.E, The Lord O'Donnell GCB KCB CB, K.J Havelock. T.H Henman O.B.E, S.A Jones L.V.O, R.T Stoakes, A.J.K Tatum, The Hon H B Weatherill.

Directors: S. Bolton O.B.E (Chief Executive), R.G Atkinson (Financial Director), M.J Dite (Operations Director), M.W.C Guntrip (Club Director), W.R Jinks (IT Director), U. Al-Qassab (Marketing and Commercial Director)

Thanks. I read that. My questions is who owns the AELTC? Is it privately owned by an individual or investors, or is it a nonprofit run by a board?

And does anyone know who owns the Club, which is the parent to the AELTC? Wouldn't that person exert a lot of control over the AELTC and the tournament?

by ashkor87 It is a private club owned by its members, has royal patronage for support. It is said the easiest way to become a member is to win the tournament!

by skatingfan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 2:41 pm Thanks. I read that. My questions is who owns the AELTC? Is it privately owned by an individual or investors, or is it a nonprofit run by a board?

And does anyone know who owns the Club, which is the parent to the AELTC? Wouldn't that person exert a lot of control over the AELTC and the tournament?

Wimbledon is a club, and is legally a private company limited by guarantee. The members control the operations of the club through a board of directors.

A company limited by guarantee does not usually have a share capital or shareholders, but instead has members who act as guarantors of the company's liabilities: each member undertakes to contribute an amount specified in the articles (typically very small) in the event of insolvency or of the winding up of the company

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_c ... _guarantee

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 2:53 pm It is a private club owned by its members, has royal patronage for support. It is said the easiest way to become a member is to win the tournament!

Does support include financial? Does Wimbledon receive government funding? Just curious.

by ashkor87 Well, the UK taxpayer funds the Crown so.
.

by skatingfan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 3:00 pm Does support include financial? Does Wimbledon receive government funding? Just curious.

I would think that the tournament must receive some government funding. Just the security costs alone for this sort of event in suburban London must be enormous, and add to that preservation of heritage, and one of the largest annual sporting events in England it probably receives various grants.

by mmmm8 Looks like the AELTC files a financial statements with the government - that should advise of where the funding comes from: https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 3:32 pm Looks like the AELTC files a financial statements with the government - that should advise of where the funding comes from: https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

Was hoping someone would do all the work for me... like someone who studied economics or finance in London.

This came up during a conversation about how much money - if any - Wimbledon leaves on the table by not having many sponsors on Centre Court or corporate suites. We wondered if their TV deal is much better than other Slams' and offsets some of the revenue they pass up. And then wondered who owns Wimbledon anyway.

There are more sponsors on Centre Court than I thought. Not just Rolex, but Oppo, Slazenger, I think IBM and maybe one more.

by ponchi101 They have slowly accepted more sponsors. In the 1980's they had no signs on CC, but started accepting some.
People forget that Wimbledon is "all about traditions". Sure, and one of the traditions they like best is to make money. If tomorrow somebody were to prove to them that the "all white" rule is costing them money, you could bet your last shilling that they would drop it very fast, albeit coming up with some BS "tradition" excuse.

by ti-amie Sakkari used to go deep in tournaments before she'd implode. Now she's losing in the first round. Is it

time for her and her team?

by Suliso Sakkari #14 in the race.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 6:35 pm Sakkari #14 in the race.

Semis of two 1000s will do that. IW and Madrid.

by ponchi101 The loss at RG can be accepted in retrospect. She lost to the eventual finalist who also knocked out the #2 seed and gave Iga a very tough match.
This one will be harder (let's see how far can Kostyuk go).

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:40 pm The loss at RG can be accepted in retrospect. She lost to the eventual finalist who also knocked out the #2 seed and gave Iga a very tough match.
This one will be harder (let's see how far can Kostyuk go).

Yeah, that one is understandable. Bad draw. She has had some solid results late last year and this year, but she isn't consistent.

by shmrck14

by meganfernandez

shmrck14 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:24 am

Good for her, take a break, enjoy life a little, recharge.

by ponchi101 She has been on break for too long. I wonder in what shape she will be when she comes back, and how much her skills will drop.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 3:12 pm She has been on break for too long. I wonder in what shape she will be when she comes back, and how much her skills will drop.

Might be offset by a renewed enthusiasm. She won't forget how to play winning tennis. Playing a lot never seemed to help. She has to be really excited about tennis, and motivated.

by ponchi101 I have said this before. This is a game of such precision that staying away from the court for long will always affect you. And she was a made player, so coming back to any level will take a lot of work.
Hope I am wrong, of course, and that you are right. I hope the motivation will be all there.

by JTContinental Speaking of returning to the tour, Kevin Anderson is unretiring, and will play in Newport for his first tournament back.

by ti-amie Three men talking tennis from a perspective rarely heard from. (Eubanks talks too much

)

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:15 pm Three men talking tennis from a perspective rarely heard from. (Eubanks talks too much )

I would call this a must watch - very engaging guys talking like no one is watching.

Eubanks has already started his commentator career with Tennis channel last year, and he has some skills to keep that going once he's finished playing.

by flowerchild39

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:15 pm Three men talking tennis from a perspective rarely heard from. (Eubanks talks too much )

Maybe because he has the most to say.

by ti-amie At one point Ben does ask him to let him finish though.

by meganfernandez Sorry, I'll wait next time.

\

Also:

by mmmm8 That is definitely beer not Pimm's. New type of Beer Pong

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Mirra Andreeva rumored to switch to French citizenship

JULY 12, 2023 23:00
by CLAUDIU POP | VIEW 10040

Upcoming tennis star Mirra Andreeva is rumored to try to gain French citizenship, just as her compatriot Varvara Gracheva recently did. After all, Andreeva lives and trains in France.Andreeva remarked herself once again at this year's Wimbledon.

At just 16 years old, she got until the round of 16, where she was defeated in 3 sets by Madison Keys.To apply for citizenship, two of the conditions are to live in France for at least 5 years and to pass the French language exam, just as Gracheva did last year.

https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/n ... tizenship/

by ponchi101 That's all? Live there for 5 years and pass the language test?
I applied for Colombian citizenship FOUR YEARS AGO. The process is still pending (I have lived here for 12). And the test for citizenship is a comprehensive test of THE CONSTITUTION and HISTORY of the country, plus miscellaneous questions about geography and culture.
I barely passed.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 7:51 pm Mirra Andreeva rumored to switch to French citizenship

JULY 12, 2023 23:00
by CLAUDIU POP | VIEW 10040

Upcoming tennis star Mirra Andreeva is rumored to try to gain French citizenship, just as her compatriot Varvara Gracheva recently did. After all, Andreeva lives and trains in France.Andreeva remarked herself once again at this year's Wimbledon.

At just 16 years old, she got until the round of 16, where she was defeated in 3 sets by Madison Keys.To apply for citizenship, two of the conditions are to live in France for at least 5 years and to pass the French language exam, just as Gracheva did last year.

https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/n ... tizenship/

Her accent sounds French to me. I was wondering about this.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:09 pm That's all? Live there for 5 years and pass the language test?
I applied for Colombian citizenship FOUR YEARS AGO. The process is still pending (I have lived here for 12). And the test for citizenship is a comprehensive test of THE CONSTITUTION and HISTORY of the country, plus miscellaneous questions about geography and culture.
I barely passed.

Well, most senators in Colombia probably would fail outright...

by Suliso I assume she went to school in France. There is a more streamlined process towards citizenship here for those who're born and educated here. Perhaps in France as well.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie This is horrific.

by ti-amie I can't believe she erased the mark right in front of the chair!

by ti-amie Ajla Tomljanovic
@Ajlatom
·
1h
Absolutely disgusting behavior.
Shuai is a better person than a lot of us for shaking the ref and that girls hand.
But then again it’s Shuai we are talking about , ofc she did.

by JTContinental Mikael Ymer has been suspended 18 months for doping

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... appearance

by ti-amie

JTContinental wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:37 pm Mikael Ymer has been suspended 18 months for doping

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... appearance

by ponchi101 Why would that erasure of the mark should be any different from when players erase a mark as a way to conceding that the ball was in?

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 11:15 pm Why would that erasure of the mark should be any different from when players erase a mark as a way to conceding that the ball was in?

If your opponent is challenging a call is it proper for you to walk over, erase the mark as if to say "deal with it"? Why couldn't she wait and let things play out if the call was legitimately out?

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:02 pm

No US team. And is Carlos really going to play?

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 11:30 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 11:15 pm Why would that erasure of the mark should be any different from when players erase a mark as a way to conceding that the ball was in?
If your opponent is challenging a call is it proper for you to walk over, erase the mark as if to say "deal with it"? Why couldn't she wait and let things play out if the call was legitimately out?

So bush league. This was an ugly scene all around. Horrible call, horrible treatment by the umpire, horrible crowd reaction, horrible sportsmanship from the opponent. Welcome to villainhood, Toth-whoever.

by skatingfan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 1:59 am No US team. And is Carlos really going to play?

Looks like it, and it is an exhibition - two sets with a super-tie break played at a set all.

by Owendonovan Seems many people still don't know they're being filmed and there's a thing called social media that destroys people in moments. See you next Tuesday, Kiara.

by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 5:54 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 1:59 am No US team. And is Carlos really going to play?
Looks like it, and it is an exhibition - two sets with a super-tie break played at a set all.

Wont' be physically taxing, although I'm sure he's a little tired from the final and all the media... and most people would want to go home and celebrate with their family and friends. Credit to him for keeping his commitment. He'll be a huge draw. He his probably getting paid a bundle.

by ti-amie JJ joins the fray:

Such a hot mess although one tennishead swears they saw brass knuckles in her racquet bag during her "bag check" segment on Tennis Channel.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 6:27 pm JJ joins the fray:

Such a hot mess although one tennishead swears they saw brass knuckles in her racquet bag during her "bag check" segment on Tennis Channel.

I thought Toth's name is Kiara. Whoever she is, she should apologize and explain that she learned from it, and everyone should leave her alone. Bullying in response isn't justified.

by ponchi101 Agree, but the apology is needed.
If not, a suspension (or at least default from that tournament) should be considered.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

Geopolitics has entered the building.

by ti-amie The Hungarian players full name is Amarissa Kiara Tóth.

by ti-amie Disputed line call creates uproar in Budapest after player erases ball mark with foot
Zhang Shuai quits match after crowd boos her over objection
The Associated Press · Posted: Jul 19, 2023 1:37 PM EDT | Last Updated: 4 hours ago

Chinese tennis player Zhang Shuai quit a match after her opponent rubbed out a ball mark with her foot following a disputed line call at the Budapest Grand Prix.

The second-seeded Zhang retired from the match while trailing 6-5 in the first set against Hungarian opponent Amarissa Toth at the clay-court tournament on Tuesday.

The dispute related to a forehand from Zhang that appeared to be in but was called out. Zhang argued the decision but it stood and the match continued briefly before the disagreement about the line call began again.

As Zhang repeated her protests, Toth walked over to the ball mark and rubbed it out with her foot.

"Wait, wait, wait! Keep the mark," Zhang shouted in response. "What are you doing? Why would you do that?"

Zhang sat crying and shaking her head on her chair for a few moments at the side of the court before quitting.

She shook hands with the main umpire and Toth before appearing to point her fingers at the crowd, which had booed and jeered her for disputing the call.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/tennis/budape ... -1.6911240

by ti-amie The WTA had to say something. For once it seems they realized what a s**tshow they have on their hands. This is coming hard on the heels of the Bouzkova/SST fiasco.

What can they do though? Would they dare cancel the tournament?

by ponchi101 1. Institute a clear cut rule regarding any actions like this one.
2. Sanction the tournament if indeed nothing was done by them.
3. Put the offending player on probation.

Just throwing ideas out there.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Uhm, I think it was not the celebration, right? It was the running over and erasing the mark.
What am I missing?

by ti-amie She's reading what the teleprompter says.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:56 pm

Geopolitics has entered the building.

This is from the tournament's official account??

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:52 pm Uhm, I think it was not the celebration, right? It was the running over and erasing the mark.
What am I missing?

Both. Raising her arms in celebration when Zhang shook her hand was horrible form.

by ti-amie

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 2:35 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:56 pm

Geopolitics has entered the building.
This is from the tournament's official account??

Yes it was.

by Owendonovan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 2:42 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 2:35 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:56 pm

Geopolitics has entered the building.
This is from the tournament's official account??
Yes it was.

Straight out of Viktor Orbans right wing political playbook. It's so tiring watching people be a**holes just to be a**holes. If you have to be asked to apologize, you kinda deserve whatever bad happens from the incident.

by ti-amie

by nelslus

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2023 10:31 pm

I am TELLING y'all- playing in Chicago is a good luck charm. (Of course, it could also be me and baby nelslus being the good luck charms for these fortunate players.

) Emma. Last year's final- Roman Safiullin- this year's Wimbledon quarterfinalist- d. Ben Shelton- this year's Aussie quarterfinalist 6–3, 4–6, 7–5.

by Owendonovan Russia's Vera Zvonareva blocked from entering Poland
WARSAW -- Russian tennis player Vera Zvonareva was blocked from entering Poland for reasons of state security and public safety, the Polish interior ministry said on Saturday.

The 38-year-old, a bronze medalist at the 2008 Olympics in Beijing, was on the list of players of the BNP Paribas Warsaw Open tournament starting on Monday.

"The Border Guard prevented a Russian tennis player from entering Poland. Vera Zvonareva, using a visa issued by France, tried to get into our country on a flight from Belgrade to Warsaw," the ministry said in a statement.

Zvonareva, who landed in Poland on Friday, is on a list of people considered undesirable there, the ministry said.

"After arriving from Serbia, the tennis player stayed in the transit zone of Warsaw Chopin Airport and today after 1200 she flew to Podgorica."

The Women's Tennis Association (WTA) said Saturday it was aware of the situation.

"The safety and well-being of all players is a top priority of the WTA," it said in a statement.

"Vera has departed Poland and we will be evaluating the issue further with the event."

Poland has become one of Ukraine's staunchest allies since Russia invaded the country in 2022, and it has been refusing entry to people who support the actions of Russia and Belarus.

The tournament organizers did not immediately reply to an emailed request for comment.

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... ing-poland

by JTContinental Especially interesting because after I read this story this morning I looked at the qualifying draw and there are two other Russian players listed

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:21 pm

Spoken like somebody that really DOES NOT know what 57 feels like.
And I was still hitting with 30-somethings when I was 57. Sorry, Nick. You really don't know what it is like.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:19 pm

Thank you, Iga. One conversation and term that can be put to sleep.

by Owendonovan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:56 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:21 pm
Spoken like somebody that really DOES NOT know what 57 feels like.
And I was still hitting with 30-somethings when I was 57. Sorry, Nick. You really don't know what it is like.

I'll be 57 this year and can still do back, side, and front flips. I can run 7 minute miles in a 10k, and walk on average 25,000 steps a day. That's what a partying almost 57 yo can do.

(it's also much much more difficult at this age to do those things)

by ponchi101

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 9:44 pm ...

I'll be 57 this year and can still do back, side, and front flips. I can run 7 minute miles in a 10k, and walk on average 25,000 steps a day. That's what a partying almost 57 yo can do. (it's also much much more difficult at this age to do those things)

Note to self: NEVER get on a tennis court against Owendonovan.

by Owendonovan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 3:41 pm
Owendonovan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 9:44 pm ...

I'll be 57 this year and can still do back, side, and front flips. I can run 7 minute miles in a 10k, and walk on average 25,000 steps a day. That's what a partying almost 57 yo can do. (it's also much much more difficult at this age to do those things)
Note to self: NEVER get on a tennis court against Owendonovan.

My serve is most like Dementieva, my return is 50% planned and 50% luck that it goes back in play, but once that's over I get a lot back.

by ponchi101 My point being that you are telling us you can still do flips.
I can only do flops

And I am only a couple of years older

by Suliso Old people you are

I still have more than a decade to go till 57

by mmmm8 I have more than that and I can't serve NOR do flips

by nelslus

Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 5:08 pm Old people you are

I still have more than a decade to go till 57

Smirk now, ingénue. 50's just around the corner.

(....Albeit, I'm less than 7 years away from 70.)

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:57 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:19 pm

Thank you, Iga. One conversation and term that can be put to sleep.

FAR too soon to call them the big 3. Two of them haven't been consistent enough to earn Big Anything status yet. The men's Big 3 got to the semis of Slams and 1000s in their sleep. Not quarters, semis. Every single time.

But it's nice to have a solid 1, 2 and 3, and I hope they can keep it up. We need that.

by ashkor87 Kei Nishikori on Alcaraz
https://www.eurosport.com/tennis/carlos ... tory.shtml

Nishikori thinks, as I do, that Alcaraz' quickness makes him a better player than Nadal..better than anyone seen thus far..in fact

by ponchi101 With modern technology and so much video available, it should be possible to quantify that quickness and speed.
Is Alcaraz truly faster than Roger, Rafa or Novak? Faster than Deminaur? (I have always been impressed by his speed). Faster than Borg? I would love to see a quantified analysis.

by ti-amie Tennis Connected
@TennisConnected
·
Jul 23
Is Casper Ruud Overrated? Point-Counterpoint.

After many interactions on Twitter,
@AmyLundyDahl
& Nima Naderi return to discuss the current resume of world No. 4 Casper Ruud.

Is the Norwegian overrated, or not?

The latest

Is Casper Ruud Overrated? Point-Counterpoint
By Amy Lundy -July 23, 2023

TennisConnected.com founder Nima Naderi and writer/reporter Amy Lundy debate whether Casper Ruud is overrated or not. The Norwegian, currently ranked #4 in the world, has been runner up at Grand Slams 3 times and has 10 career singles titles, all at the 250 level. His career earnings in prize money alone (singles and doubles combined) is over $15 million.

Nima’s Point
Recently, I posed the question on Twitter: Is Casper Ruud overrated? The simple point gained a lot of traction and provided a very elaborate discussion on both sides of the spectrum.

Tennis Connected
@TennisConnected
Still think Casper Ruud is super overrated. He’s in this soft patch of men’s tennis where he can basically tank the grass season and finish Top 5 in the world. Again, nothing against him. Good guy, nice game but he’s definitely benefitting from a weak top 10 overall.

Interestingly enough, tennis mainstays and respected coaches Daniel Vallverdu and Brad Gilbert tweeted to defend the Norwegian in their support that he is not in fact “overrated.”

Anyway you slice this argument, the facts remain here:

– Ruud is 0-14 against 5 recent Grand Slam winners: Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Medvedev and Alcaraz.

– He has never won a title higher than an ATP Tour 250 event.

– In the 3 Majors finals that he reached (French Open 2022 and 2023 and the US Open in 2022), he only defeated one top 10 player en-route to the finals (Rune, Roland Garros quarterfinals 2023).

– He has notoriously played a ton of lower ranked clay court events to gain ranking points throughout the years

– Against the rest of the current top 10, his record is:

1-1 against Tsitsipas
6-1 against Rune
2-5 against Rublev
0-2 against Sinner
1-0 against Fritz
0-0 against Tiafoe

All in all, the claim remains strong that at No. 4 in the world and a career high of No. 2, Ruud is an overrated player that has benefitted from easy Slam draws and a weak overall top 10 field at the moment.

*****

Amy’s Counterpoint
This is an easy counterpoint for me to take up because Ruud is one of my son’s favorite players. He gets loads of respect in my house for his work ethic and his forehand!

First of all, Ruud is only 24 years old. His story is very much unwritten. Dude has a decade or more of tennis in front of him, if he so chooses.

– Regarding the 0-14 record against recent Grand Slam champs, most people struggle against those guys, particularly the Big 3. Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are in their own rare air (more on that in a moment). Yes, as of now, Casper is 0-6 vs Meddy and Carlitos, but only one of those six matches was on clay, Casper’s preferred surface. Give these rivalries time to play out.

– All his titles are 250s. It’s better than not winning ten 250s, which is true of the vast majority of players on tour. Yes, he might benefit from more thoughtful scheduling to save his energy for Masters level events, but he’ll get there.

– 6-1 vs Holger Rune is nothing to sneeze at. Runner up in three Grand Slam and one ATP Finals is amazing for a 24-year-old. To borrow from golf (since Casper likes it), the GOAT of golf, Jack Nicklaus, finished 2nd in Majors a record 19 times. The fact is, most tennis players lose most of the time. That’s the nature of tournament tennis. Ruud’s overall career winning percentage is 65%. How many people can say that? Ruud will break through and win a Grand Slam eventually.

– On blowing off the grass season, except for Wimbledon. How a player chooses to engage with the sport of tennis is their choice. I have friends who refuse to play indoors– or play on clay. They’re good players. They do them. If Ruud wants to make $15 million in prize money and use the grass season to take a breather, then he’s probably doing something right. Scandinavians have been consistently ranked as some of the most content people on the planet, in large part to work-life balance. Casper has that.

– The other side of the equation of the Big 3 dominance era is that current young players probably realize they’re never going to catch those guys. If you can’t possibly win 20+ Grand Slams, you might need to enjoy your life a bit. Ruud can still very much win a Grand Slam or two, or four. That doesn’t mean he needs to wear himself out on a surface he doesn’t enjoy. The tennis calendar is too damn long. Everyone needs a calculated break in the schedule, and I’m here for it.

The bottom line: The Big 3 Era is drawing to a close. The world is about to open up for the taking. I would not bet against Ruud’s work ethic as a means to solving the larger-tournament puzzle.

https://tennisconnected.com/home/2023/0 ... nterpoint/

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I say Ruud is not overrated. But he also is not underrated. Can't see him becoming a force in the sport.

by ashkor87 Calling him the Pegula of the ATP may be just right..as someone did on this forum recently.

by ti-amie

She's hitting with kids balls it seems.

by ponchi101 And that is also a juniors' racquet.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 Meanwhile Ankita Raina has becme the answer to a trivia question, by sending Strycova into retirement at her home tournament...I still remember the nasty exchange Strycova has with Venus some years ago, left a bad taste in the mouth.. but I am sure we all wish her well

by skatingfan This might be giving Nelsus nightmares.

by ti-amie Spinopsys
@spinopsys@aus.social
I will never forget how this woman treated a young Nick Kyrgios when he needed a helping hand and understanding shoulder to lean on in his formative years. And I have zero idea how she keeps getting appointed to head things. Her past form indicates she should never be allowed near anything to do with Australian sport.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... l-sanction?

by ponchi101

skatingfan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:29 pm This might be giving Nelsus nightmares.

I grew up with a two hander. Around 19, I switched to 1H, because biomechanically it is an easier stroke. But I can still hit with two hands on my BH, although I can't generate anything close to the speed I have in my 1H.
Roger's looks very solid. Very proper motion. This guy's gifts are amazing.

by ti-amie They're all looking at how weak the WTA is right now and saying "Why not me?"

Diego Barbiani
@Diego_Barbiani
Former WTA n.5 Anna Chakvetadze is on the ALT list in 3 ITF tournaments in Belgium in a row starting next week (25k Koksijde, 15k Duffel, 15k Wanfercee-Baulet).

Chakvetadze's last official event was at the WTA International in Tashkent, in 2012 (lost in R2 vs Galina Voskoboeva).

Dewulf Filip
@FilipDewulf72
36 year old and former world number 5, Anna Chakvetadze is playing a money tournament in Belgium this week.

TC La Hulpe

by ponchi101 They are looking at how weak the WTA APPEARS to be right now, and are asking why not me.
They will find our pretty soon. Let them meet Aryna in the first round.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 6:01 pm They are looking at how weak the WTA APPEARS to be right now, and are asking why not me.
They will find our pretty soon. Let them meet Aryna in the first round.

Funny. I don't know why anyone thinks it looks weak. There's a dominant No. 1, Sabalenka finally winning a Slam and challenging regularly, consistent Top 10 players. I hope they don't think they can win a Slam because Vondrousova did. I doubt that's the expectation, versus winning some matches again and making some month. It's also about the personal challenge, can they get in shape and find their game again. Top 50 might be a goal. And Chakvetadze might have other demons to put behind her.

by meganfernandez Stretching the topic, but.... here's Hurricane Black (remember her?) beating the No.1-ranked pickleball player... and the loser, who is 16, throwing a tantrum by celebrating like she'd won and running off court. Takeaway: teenage tennis champions are seasoned competitors. Teenage pickleball champions haven't competed beyond high school varsity.

by ponchi101 Needless to say, but... we play tennis. And it is THE TOUGHEST and most complete racquet sport. I have never picked another racquet sport and not be able to rally immediately, and be competitive in days.
So, sure. I don't remember Hurricane, but she beat somebody at pickleball? Sounds about right.

by ashkor87 Goran Ivanisevic said recently that only Sinner is capable of challenging Alcaraz in the future...except Djoko right now of course

by JTContinental

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:30 pm Needless to say, but... we play tennis. And it is THE TOUGHEST and most complete racquet sport. I have never picked another racquet sport and not be able to rally immediately, and be competitive in days.
So, sure. I don't remember Hurricane, but she beat somebody at pickleball? Sounds about right.

You may have a better memory of her sister, Tornado Alicia Black, who was a better tennis player.

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:57 am Goran Ivanisevic said recently that only Sinner is capable of challenging Alcaraz in the future...except Djoko right now of course

So Goran is writing off Holger at age 20? Sounds a bit premature to me. It is not as if Rune has no weapons.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 3:27 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:57 am Goran Ivanisevic said recently that only Sinner is capable of challenging Alcaraz in the future...except Djoko right now of course
So Goran is writing off Holger at age 20? Sounds a bit premature to me. It is not as if Rune has no weapons.

oh, I dont agree with him.. just quoting him. In the long run, certainly, Rune will get there.. but Sinner is almost there already..not to mention Medvedev - although I am not sure what will enable Medvedev to compete well against Alcaraz..

by meganfernandez

JTContinental wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:38 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:30 pm Needless to say, but... we play tennis. And it is THE TOUGHEST and most complete racquet sport. I have never picked another racquet sport and not be able to rally immediately, and be competitive in days.
So, sure. I don't remember Hurricane, but she beat somebody at pickleball? Sounds about right.
You may have a better memory of her sister, Tornado Alicia Black, who was a better tennis player.

That's right!

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:30 pm Needless to say, but... we play tennis. And it is THE TOUGHEST and most complete racquet sport. I have never picked another racquet sport and not be able to rally immediately, and be competitive in days.
So, sure. I don't remember Hurricane, but she beat somebody at pickleball? Sounds about right.

Yeah, but the point of the video is that Hurricane's opponent threw a tantrum when she lost. Get used to it, honey. The real athletes are coming for your PB.

by mmmm8

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 3:57 pm They're all looking at how weak the WTA is right now and saying "Why not me?"

Diego Barbiani
@Diego_Barbiani
Former WTA n.5 Anna Chakvetadze is on the ALT list in 3 ITF tournaments in Belgium in a row starting next week (25k Koksijde, 15k Duffel, 15k Wanfercee-Baulet).

Chakvetadze's last official event was at the WTA International in Tashkent, in 2012 (lost in R2 vs Galina Voskoboeva).

Dewulf Filip
@FilipDewulf72
36 year old and former world number 5, Anna Chakvetadze is playing a money tournament in Belgium this week.

TC La Hulpe

So, Chakvetadze's husband is Ukrainian with a business in Switzerland. Pure speculation, she may be trying to get away from living in Russia (where she was commentating and owns a kids' academy) or Ukraine and may not have get-out-of-Russia/Ukraine but maintain lifestyle money. This is one way to remind people she exists and either have some success on the tour or secure an opportunity to put her name on an academy or something else in Europe.

by skatingfan Alexis Galarneau, and his good friend Felix Auger-Aliassime from the Canadian under-12 Nationals in 2010.

by ti-amie Christopher Clarey

@christophclarey@sportsbots.xyz
Prize money for losing R1 at the majors in 2023
(Today's exchange rates)

Aussie Open: $69,510
Roland Garros: $75,589
Wimbledon: $70,100
US Open: $81,500

Good to see this keep going up. It's not more money for losers but fair reward for those good enough to get into a major

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:23 pm Christopher Clarey
@christophclarey@sportsbots.xyz
Prize money for losing R1 at the majors in 2023
(Today's exchange rates)

Aussie Open: $69,510
Roland Garros: $75,589
Wimbledon: $70,100
US Open: $81,500

Good to see this keep going up. It's not more money for losers but fair reward for those good enough to get into a major

This is the most basic economics for pro tennis - reach the top 100, guaranteed $300k for the year from automatic Slam entry (and hope you don't get injured). That should pay for coaching, a trainer, and expenses, right? Everything else you earn - prize money and sponsorships - is income.

by ti-amie Mark Taylor

:TheCDN4:
@emarktaylor@thecanadian.social
@tennis #Tennis #BelindaBencic

After her match vs Parks ...

Via The Tennis Letter @thetennisletter

Belinda Bencic spent 1.5 hours in anti doping after 3 hour match:

“I just spent 1.5 hours in anti doping, not being able to pee after a 3 hour match. I don’t know what they expect & I don’t know why I have anti doping, when I won. I didn’t even eat yet. I had to beg to have an ice bath. It’s new rules. That’s how I recover I guess. Not ideal.”

by ponchi101 I side with her.

by nelslus My new favorite name for a tennis player

:

https://www.itftennis.com/en/players/ch ... /overview/

by skatingfan

nelslus wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 6:36 pm My new favorite name for a tennis player :

https://www.itftennis.com/en/players/ch ... /overview/

404 We've Made an Unforced Error

by nelslus

skatingfan wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 6:50 pm
nelslus wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 6:36 pm My new favorite name for a tennis player :

https://www.itftennis.com/en/players/ch ... /overview/
404 We've Made an Unforced Error

Picky, Picky, Picky. (Fixed).

Albeit, "We've Made an Unforced Error" would also be a great tennis player name.

by skatingfan

nelslus wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 6:36 pm My new favorite name for a tennis player :

https://www.itftennis.com/en/players/ch ... /overview/

I think we need to set up an exhibtion.

https://www.itftennis.com/en/players/ad ... -info-tabs

by ashkor87 Got to watch Toronto finally...Sinner has really gotten good very fast..he is up there with Alcaraz now...time he won a major..He is ready...especially on a fast court. USO maybe?

by Suliso Someone very recently said he'll be Alcaraz's main rival. Goran maybe?

by ashkor87

Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:13 pmGoran maybe?

yes, it was

by ponchi101 I still need to see him beat a big name. Alcaraz, Novak, Daniil, somebody up there.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:42 pm I still need to see him beat a big name. Alcaraz, Novak, Daniil, somebody up there.

Agreed

by 3mlm

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:42 pm I still need to see him beat a big name. Alcaraz, Novak, Daniil, somebody up there.

Sinner has a 3-3 head to head against Alcaraz, winning at Croatia and Wimbledon in '22 and Miami in '23.

by ponchi101 Yes, but I mean recently. If we are going to claim that his game has improved, we have to see such improved game against the top.

by ti-amie I'm sorry but I still don't see it with Sinner.

by Suliso

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:07 pm I'm sorry but I still don't see it with Sinner.

Who's your #2 pick behind Alcaraz?

by ti-amie

Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:14 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:07 pm I'm sorry but I still don't see it with Sinner.
Who's your #2 pick behind Alcaraz?

Right now "other" and I'm not joking. If I could manage to stay awake during one of Sinner's matches maybe I would feel differently.

by ti-amie No surprise here

Liudmila Samsonova shares furious words against National Bank Open board

AUGUST 15, 2023 15:00
by LORENZO CIOTTI

Liudmila Samsonova severely attacked the organizers of the National Bank Open, WTA 1000 in Montreal, after the final lost against Jessica Pegula.The Russian player, due to the rain that hit Montreal in the previous days, had to play against Elena Rybakina a few hours before the final of the tournament.

Samsonova looked both physically and mentally exhausted and she picked up just one game in the final.

The Russian explained in the press-conference: "I tried to do everything possible with my physio to recover.

After an hour of treatments, I had to play again. It hurts to realize that the tournament organizers don't give a damn about us tennis players. If it's raining, you need to do everything possible to avoid two games being played on the same day.

First final in a WTA 1000? I still can't figure it out, because it's been a tough week for me. Many matches, many experiences, difficult conditions, but in the end I got an incredible result. I would have liked to have more time to recover, but it was not possible for the organizers.

I don't quite know what to say. I immediately found myself on the court."Liudmila then said about her opponent: "I know Jessica well and her way of playing. I know she's a complicated opponent. Before the match, I knew I wouldn't have so much energy.

I really tried my best, but it wasn't enough. Everyone knew the forecast and everyone knew about the rain. They should do a different schedule. This is my opinion."Pegula also knew the precarious conditions in which her rival took the court: "My opponent had to deal with a crazy schedule and played another game with just a few hours left to go.

It's not the ideal situation, but not much could be done.Unfortunately it's just a question of the weather and the programming didn't help, it didn't go in her favour. It's difficult when you're in this condition, she's a great player and I'm sure we'll find her again fighting in these tournaments."

https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/n ... pen-board/

by ponchi101 Agree with her, in principle. But, what could the organizers have done, seeing that Cincy starts on the immediate next day? Plus, play that final on Monday and you can expect an empty stadium.
It was bad luck for everybody except Pegula.

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:07 pm I'm sorry but I still don't see it with Sinner.

The lack of a 'plan B' is concerning when you're trying to win a major.

by JTContinental

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:00 pm Agree with her, in principle. But, what could the organizers have done, seeing that Cincy starts on the immediate next day? Plus, play that final on Monday and you can expect an empty stadium.
It was bad luck for everybody except Pegula.

Tournaments have to keep the fans in mind too, if they want to keep having a tournament.

Honestly, that semi final match didn't look that grueling. Neither Rybakina nor Samsonova were playing at 100% of their capabilities to save energy for the final, which resulted in a weird scoreline. I'm assuming it's mostly just excuses and sour grapes for not winning.

by skatingfan

JTContinental wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:01 pm Tournaments have to keep the fans in mind too, if they want to keep having a tournament.

Honestly, that semi final match didn't look that grueling. Neither Rybakina nor Samsonova were playing at 100% of their capabilities to save energy for the final, which resulted in a weird scoreline. I'm assuming it's mostly just excuses and sour grapes for not winning.

Maybe, but I'm also wondering her shoulder injury - it was heavily tapped in the semifinal.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:00 pm Agree with her, in principle. But, what could the organizers have done, seeing that Cincy starts on the immediate next day? Plus, play that final on Monday and you can expect an empty stadium.
It was bad luck for everybody except Pegula.

I think the only thing they could have done was push back the match a few hours, or move up the semi a few hours (it started at 1 - should have started it much earlier), but you have fans and TV to consider. I don't know what else they could have done. Maybe Monday final and then Samsonova would get a Tuesday-night start in Cincy, and if it's played with fewer fans, so be it. Should the event prioritize the players over the fans? Probably so. The competition has to be fair, first and foremost. But they could have given her a few more hours.

In theory, I don't think two B3 matches a day is necessarily brutal or unreasonable. Other players have won two matches a day. But it sucks when it's just one player in a final, and not the opponent.

There's just no great solution in these cases unless they had moved the semi to an indoor club with no fans and refunded those tickets. And it's an outdoor tournament. That might not even be legal by the WTA bylaws.

by ashkor87 https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/vi ... cincinnati
Some good thoughts from Vika

by ti-amie Ben Rothenberg

@BenRothenberg@sportsbots.xyz
One of the few teams that stuck together through thick and thin in this generation…Cabal and Farah were a huge deal for Colombia, a country with a big, underserved tennis fandom.

by ponchi101 A big, underserved tennis fandom.
Where?

by Owendonovan At first I read that as undeserved and thought Wow, that's pretty rough.

by ponchi101 It is not as if this country pauses when they played. They are very popular indeed, and the tennis playing population knows them. But that is as far as it goes. They can walk through any city mall without being recognized.

by Suliso That could be said about virtually any doubles player anywhere. A top 10 singles player would be a more relevant measure.

by meganfernandez See Mark's Petchey's comment - interesting theory on how to shorten matches and avoid late-night finishes.

by ashkor87 Coco, asked who can keep up with her in a foot race,mentioned Swiatek and.....Parks!

https://www.wtatennis.com/news/3639614/ ... f-s-speed-

by ti-amie Christopher Clarey

@christophclarey@sportsbots.xyz
This was Brad Gilbert in our interview a couple of weeks ago about Coco Gauff. Didn't have to wait long for a big title.

From my subscriber site TENNIS & BEYOND

https://christopherclarey.substack.com/p/coco-gauff-b…

by ponchi101 Good point. Even here, we talk "too much" about her FH, while we do not discuss her other weapons. And we give some other players a pass on their deficiencies. For example, I don't think we have ever spoken about how weak Iga is at the net (my opinion: she is worse than average there). We do not talk about Elena's movement (the worst of the top 5 players). We marvel at Ons hands, but do not mention she has limited power.
Coco has some good strokes. The movement is very, very good. The net play is better than average. Improve just a bit, and then we are talking about Slam potential. And we do not mention that enough.

by ashkor87 I agree we should look at strengths, not weaknesses..Sampras did not become great because of his backhand..

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:53 am I agree we should look at strengths, not weaknesses..Sampras did not become great because of his backhand..

Indeed. And don't get me started on Edberg (my second favorite player ever). His FH was a liability, and everybody knew it, yet, he certainly was great.

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:53 am I agree we should look at strengths, not weaknesses..Sampras did not become great because of his backhand..

The exception is if that weakness is preventing a player from winning big matches. If they can hide the weakness and find their strength enough, fine. I had the impression that Coco was losing because of her forehand, from what people were saying.

by ashkor87 I think the key is to shore up your weakness enough that it cannot be attacked..but you cannot become a great player or even very successful without developing your strengths.. so you are right, if the weakness makes you very beatable, as Coco's forehand was/is, then you have to get it at least to an acceptable level.

What I gather is Coco is keeping the ball deep on her forehand by giving it more air, or shape, and using her backhand to hit a winner.

by meganfernandez https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... ual-income

ATP Tour plan ensures players get guaranteed annual income
Associated Press
Aug 22, 2023, 10:44 AM ET

LONDON -- Men's professional tennis players ranked in the Top 100 will be guaranteed an annual income of $300,000 in 2024 under a new financial program announced by the ATP Tour on Tuesday.

The plan, called Baseline, starts with a three-year trial beginning next season and aims at "ensuring a greater number of players can make a sustainable living from the sport," the tour said in a news release.

The ATP expects a total of 30 to 45 players to receive money through one of Baseline's three parts each season.

In "guaranteed base earnings," the ATP will make up the difference if players do not reach certain thresholds: $300,000 for the Top 100, $150,000 for players ranked from 101 to 175 and $75,000 for those ranked from 176 to 250.

An element called "injury protection" will pay players who participate in fewer than nine ATP Tour and ATP Challenger Events in a season.

And "newcomer investment" will offer access to $200,000 in funding when players first make it into the Top 125, offset against prize money they make.

More here, which Ashkor posted in Tours and Tournament News. https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/at ... injured-pl

by ashkor87 yes, this is a welcome move, I would think.. unless you are a radical free-market person.

by ponchi101 So you get a salary for being an extra in the show. It seems fair to me (hey, Carlitos and Novak have to beat SOMEBODY in 1R of every tournament they play).

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 12:41 pm hey, Carlitos and Novak have to beat SOMEBODY in 1R of every tournament they play).

sometimes they get beat too (very rarely I grant)

by mmmm8 It's almost like Universal (not really) Basic Income! I wonder if there will be pushback from tournaments about players being disincentivized from playing a fuller schedules if they're near a threshold (I don't think it'd be true, but might be a fear tournaments would have)

by ashkor87

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 1:04 pm It's almost like Universal (not really) Basic Income! I wonder if there will be pushback from tournaments about players being disincentivized from playing a fuller schedules if they're near a threshold (I don't think it'd be true, but might be a fear tournaments would have)

a good socio-economic experiment to study, in fact!

by meganfernandez I wonder if the ATP is going to consider endorsements and appearance fees as base earnings, or if it's just prize money. Will they pay up if a Top 100 player falls short of $300k in prize money but has $150k in prize money and $500k in appearance fees and cash endorsement?

by skatingfan

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 12:50 pm sometimes they get beat too (very rarely I grant)

Novak has lost his first match a few times in the past few years, but the last time he lost a first round match in a tournament was the 2016 Olympics.

by ti-amie I think the NBA does something similar.

I sincerely doubt player #120, unless he or she are coming back from injury, are getting huge appearance fees.

by nelslus

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 6:41 pm I think the NBA does something similar.

I sincerely doubt player #120, unless he or she are coming back from injury, are getting huge appearance fees.

I mean, if you have a hugely popular player- particularly in their country- like Emma or Nishikori at #120- I get that they don't exactly need the extra $'s. Nevertheless- I think this is, at least, a step in the right direction. We'll have to see how this all plays out.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 6:41 pm I think the NBA does something similar.

I sincerely doubt player #120, unless he or she are coming back from injury, are getting huge appearance fees.

Maybe not huge but maybe SOME at small events in their home country.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Maybe don't lie about a situation and get a player DQ'd? She's at the Find Out part of FAFO.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:03 pm Maybe don't lie about a situation and get a player DQ'd? She's at the Find Out part of FAFO.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for her and SST. I'm sure there are some dimensions to this that weren't obvious to fans. Maybe they weren't laughing at the default, maybe the referee assured them the default was warranted. But I don't buy for a second that SST wasn't lobbying for Kato to be punished further when she pointed out that the girl was crying. It did not appear to before the girl's sake, like, "Hey, someone should check on the ballgirl," It was accusatory--"Look what they did!" Bouzkova's cavalier attitude about their default - "that's life"-- betrays a lack of compassion. Maybe she has to be that competitive to be an elite athlete. She's not exactly believable when she says she wouldn't have wished for Kato to be defaulted. That appears to be exactly what SST, at least, wanted.

by ponchi101 Did they both behave like jerks, and in an unsportswomanlike fashion? You bet.
Should the WTA have done something? I say yes.
Should Bouzkova be harassed online? One step too much for my taste.

Then again. I contradict myself frequently because if you are online, this stuff happens. Don't like it? Leave. Nobody is forcing you to be there.

by nelslus Not disagreeing with everyone/anyone here. Obviously, this was a really bad moment for Bouzkova and SST. In general- I would not mind at all if the tours requested from the players to butt out from conferring with umpires about decisions to be made concerning their opponents- except in truly egregious situations. These ain't the first players calling for the defaults for their opponents. In this case, Bouzkova and SST should have also had the common courtesy of realizing that this was not the time to have a chuckle for any reason.

Criticizing Bouzkova and SST, even strongly, makes sense. Support the ball kid, sure. But, butt out of anything else- unless they had seen clearly that an opponent had slugged a ball that hits anyone.

But, I am not going to get behind any situation that inevitably leads to social media mass mob bullying, especially when it comes to women, people of color, etc. Too many cowards and evil people will take any excuse to jump on the bandwagon and vent their misogyny, hatred, calls for violence, etc. It all always goes WAY too far.

by nelslus

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:46 pm Did they both behave like jerks, and in an unsportswomanlike fashion? You bet.
Should the WTA have done something? I say yes.
Should Bouzkova be harassed online? One step too much for my taste.

Then again. I contradict myself frequently because if you are online, this stuff happens. Don't like it? Leave. Nobody is forcing you to be there.

But no one should have to leave social media due to mass bullying, either. (*Again, not disagreeing with your main points.

)

by ti-amie I think that if both she and SST had been less cavalier in their response to the situation with Bouzkova issuing a word salad response that can be summed up as saying "whatever".

Don't forget her peers also called both she and SST out for their behavior as well. I have very little sympathy for her. Make your bed hard, you've got to lay in it.

by nelslus

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 11:00 pm I think that if both she and SST had been less cavalier in their response to the situation with Bouzkova issuing a word salad response that can be summed up as saying "whatever".

Don't forget her peers also called both she and SST out for their behavior as well. I have very little sympathy for her. Make your bed hard, you've got to lay in it.

In all life situations-folks just don't get- it's far, far better to just say you are sorry- even deeply sorry. Explanations here ain't gonna help. Talk amongst your friends if you need to vent about your side of things- and, perhaps, Bouzkova has some points to be made about the situation? But, PR 101 would indicate, keep all of that to yourself.

But, again- this all has gone too far. And, their peers, or anyone, are not going to post that, hey, everyone, enough already, stop, and show support against the hatred. Because no one is going to want the mob going after them.

by ti-amie Like nelslus says a simple "I'm sorry" would have solved this problem. Online bullying is horrific, you can't spend a lot of time online and not see how the victims of online bullying are affected but again, this is a self made problem for her and SST.

by nelslus

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 11:16 pm Like nelslus says a simple "I'm sorry" would have solved this problem. Online bullying is horrific, you can't spend a lot of time online and not see how the victims of online bullying are affected but again, this is a self made problem for her and SST.

BUT- how much objectionable stuff goes on with tennis (and all sports, and life)- and never gets found out by the internet trolls? Them being in a really bad situation during one tennis match is a self-made problem. Not the rest. Who could have foreseen that this would become such a relatively big deal in the internet world?

by atlpam John Isner will be retiring after the US Open.

by JTContinental Misaki Doi will also retire in September, following the Japan tournament swing

by ponchi101

atlpam wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 11:37 pm John Isner will be retiring after the US Open.

Personally, an excellent career, and a player that I believe overachieved. I know, he had a huge serve but, with that movement, once the serve was returned, he was on the defensive.
Not a player I will miss, but I did not mind him.

by meganfernandez Is this procedural or strategic? He's 24, so he's likely to "un-retire." If he officially retires, per the ATP's rules if there are any on this, will he have to serve his suspension before un-retiring? This seems like a strategy, not a real retirement.

by ti-amie He's got a lot of issues including anger management, something my daughter saw up close and personal during US Open Qualies two or three years ago.

Maybe it's best he take this strategic step back. Like you said he can "unretire" in two or three years.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:47 pm He's got a lot of issues including anger management, something my daughter saw up close and personal during US Open Qualies two or three years ago.

Maybe it's best he take this strategic step back. Like you said he can "unretire" in two or three years.

Never knew that about Ymer or your daughter. I hope she wasn't in harm's way.

by ti-amie

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 7:00 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:47 pm He's got a lot of issues including anger management, something my daughter saw up close and personal during US Open Qualies two or three years ago.

Maybe it's best he take this strategic step back. Like you said he can "unretire" in two or three years.
Never knew that about Ymer or your daughter. I hope she wasn't in harm's way.

It was during a match and the usual bad call happened. She and one other woman were close to where the players sit during the changeovers and I guess the best way to describe it is he erupted, the kind of explosive anger that made she and the other woman, a stranger go into fight or flight mode. She still gets wide eyed when she talks about it.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 7:25 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 7:00 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:47 pm He's got a lot of issues including anger management, something my daughter saw up close and personal during US Open Qualies two or three years ago.

Maybe it's best he take this strategic step back. Like you said he can "unretire" in two or three years.
Never knew that about Ymer or your daughter. I hope she wasn't in harm's way.
It was during a match and the usual bad call happened. She and one other woman were close to where the players sit during the changeovers and I guess the best way to describe it is he erupted, the kind of explosive anger that made she and the other woman, a stranger go into fight or flight mode. She still gets wide eyed when she talks about it.

Wow.That's intense. I don't know why I'm surprised.

by oliver0001 Re: Mikael Ymer:

Quite scary behavior.

by skatingfan I know we were discussing Alex Michelsen, and his future in college tennis during Newport, but I don't think I saw anything confirming that he has gone pro, and will forgo his college eligibility.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/michels ... ugust-2023

by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote:I know we were discussing Alex Michelsen, and his future in college tennis during Newport, but I don't think I saw anything confirming that he has gone pro, and will forgo his college eligibility.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/michels ... ugust-2023

I saw the news

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by Owendonovan

atlpam wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 11:37 pm John Isner will be retiring after the US Open.

I was mostly interested when he played Karlovic.

by JTContinental Jack Sock is also retiring after the US Open and switching full time to pickleball

by ponchi101 I thought he had retired already.
I am sort of ambivalent about hit. He had a big game, but I don't know if he achieved more, less or just about right of what he could.

by ashkor87 The name Juvan means the same thing in Sanskrit and in Slovenian ..'young'..also sounds like 'young'...

by mmmm8

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 4:43 am The name Juvan means the same thing in Sanskrit and in Slovenian ..'young'..also sounds like 'young'...

I wonder if Latin picked it up from Sanskrit

by ashkor87

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 12:36 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 4:43 am The name Juvan means the same thing in Sanskrit and in Slovenian ..'young'..also sounds like 'young'...
I wonder if Latin picked it up from Sanskrit

It is now reasonably accepted that all these languages arose from the same root..called the Indo-European..

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 2:39 am I thought he had retired already.
I am sort of ambivalent about hit. He had a big game, but I don't know if he achieved more, less or just about right of what he could.

Shapiro said Sock spent a year partying with Krygios after reaching the top 10 and that decimated his career.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 2:39 am I thought he had retired already.
I am sort of ambivalent about hit. He had a big game, but I don't know if he achieved more, less or just about right of what he could.

What sullied his reputation for me is his keeping Rajeev Ram, #1 in the world, out of the Davis Cup team.

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 2:39 am I thought he had retired already.
I am sort of ambivalent about hit. He had a big game, but I don't know if he achieved more, less or just about right of what he could.
What sullied his reputation for me is his keeping Rajeev Ram, #1 in the world, out of the Davis Cup team.

And they proceeded to lose. Inexplicable.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ponchi101 I don't think that was a reputation to be sullied.

by nelslus

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:19 am
ashkor87 wrote:
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 2:39 am I thought he had retired already.
I am sort of ambivalent about hit. He had a big game, but I don't know if he achieved more, less or just about right of what he could.
What sullied his reputation for me is his keeping Rajeev Ram, #1 in the world, out of the Davis Cup team.
And they proceeded to lose. Inexplicable.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was actually very happy that they lost that doubles match, and that Davis Cup tie. Karma and all that. Not that Sock kept Rajeev out of the team, BTW- that was Mardy Fish's responsibility. But, that Sock and no one spoke up for Rajeev? Incredible BS, very disrespectful- AND with very bad optics for the situation.

Other than that- Sock obviously had some terrific career doubles results. I got to see some of his matches- including some of his wins, including some early round matches and the final with Oudin. AND when he won the Open with Mike Bryan. He was terrific to watch in doubles.

In any case- there have been far more problematic American Caucasian male players out there (See: isner, John.) But- I mean- pickleball?!?! Please. Just neutral about this goodbye.

by meganfernandez

nelslus wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:19 am
ashkor87 wrote: What sullied his reputation for me is his keeping Rajeev Ram, #1 in the world, out of the Davis Cup team.
And they proceeded to lose. Inexplicable.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was actually very happy that they lost that doubles match, and that Davis Cup tie. Karma and all that. Not that Sock kept Rajeev out of the team, BTW- that was Mardy Fish's responsibility. But, that Sock and no one spoke up for Rajeev? Incredible BS, very disrespectful- AND with very bad optics for the situation.

Other than that- Sock obviously had some terrific career doubles results. I got to see some of his matches- including some of his wins, including some early round matches and the final with Oudin. AND when he won the Open with Mike Bryan. He was terrific to watch in doubles.

In any case- there have been far more problematic American Caucasian male players out there (See: isner, John.) But- I mean- pickleball?!?! Please. Just neutral about this goodbye.

Sock might have kept Rajeev out. It wasn’t his decision, but i heard - maybe from Mardy himself in an interview - that he (Mardy) was burned out or otherwise not exactly at the peak of his leadership powers. It sounded like he didn’t stand up to Sock and Gang and took the heat, knowing he was likely to be out as captain.

Indefensible to only take 4 players and leave out Rajeev.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:I don't think that was a reputation to be sullied.

Haha

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by nelslus

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 7:02 pm
nelslus wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:19 am
And they proceeded to lose. Inexplicable.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was actually very happy that they lost that doubles match, and that Davis Cup tie. Karma and all that. Not that Sock kept Rajeev out of the team, BTW- that was Mardy Fish's responsibility. But, that Sock and no one spoke up for Rajeev? Incredible BS, very disrespectful- AND with very bad optics for the situation.

Other than that- Sock obviously had some terrific career doubles results. I got to see some of his matches- including some of his wins, including some early round matches and the final with Oudin. AND when he won the Open with Mike Bryan. He was terrific to watch in doubles.

In any case- there have been far more problematic American Caucasian male players out there (See: isner, John.) But- I mean- pickleball?!?! Please. Just neutral about this goodbye.
Sock might have kept Rajeev out. It wasn’t his decision, but i heard - maybe from Mardy himself in an interview - that he (Mardy) was burned out or otherwise not exactly at the peak of his leadership powers. It sounded like he didn’t stand up to Sock and Gang and took the heat, knowing he was likely to be out as captain.

Indefensible to only take 4 players and leave out Rajeev.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

AH. This I did not know. Thanks for this info. Very strange from Sock's part- he had played with Rajeev in Davis Cup. Hmmmmm......WELL, in any case, good luck with the pickleball, Sock, that I shall never see.

by meganfernandez

nelslus wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 7:11 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 7:02 pm
nelslus wrote:
I was actually very happy that they lost that doubles match, and that Davis Cup tie. Karma and all that. Not that Sock kept Rajeev out of the team, BTW- that was Mardy Fish's responsibility. But, that Sock and no one spoke up for Rajeev? Incredible BS, very disrespectful- AND with very bad optics for the situation.

Other than that- Sock obviously had some terrific career doubles results. I got to see some of his matches- including some of his wins, including some early round matches and the final with Oudin. AND when he won the Open with Mike Bryan. He was terrific to watch in doubles.

In any case- there have been far more problematic American Caucasian male players out there (See: isner, John.) But- I mean- pickleball?!?! Please. Just neutral about this goodbye.
Sock might have kept Rajeev out. It wasn’t his decision, but i heard - maybe from Mardy himself in an interview - that he (Mardy) was burned out or otherwise not exactly at the peak of his leadership powers. It sounded like he didn’t stand up to Sock and Gang and took the heat, knowing he was likely to be out as captain.

Indefensible to only take 4 players and leave out Rajeev.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
AH. This I did not know. Thanks for this info. Very strange from Sock's part- he had played with Rajeev in Davis Cup. Hmmmmm......WELL, in any case, good luck with the pickleball, Sock, that I shall never see.

The heavy rumor was that Sock didn't want to partner with him and the younger guys didn't think Rajeev could hang with them in practice (which is laughable) and maybe didn't want the old man cramping their style. By style, they must have meant losing.

by ashkor87 https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... ard-courts
On sliding on hard courts

by ponchi101 It has always amazed me, and one technique that at my age I will not try to learn. I can see myself with all my ankle ligaments in a Ziplock back, on my hospital night table.

by ashkor87 Sad to see the other Coco retiring so quietly.. she was a key pillar of the Fed Cup team...I was always fond of her because her uncle Kiki was captain of the UCLA basketball team in my time...
Remember her heroics at the AO knocking off player after player including Kerber..

by ashkor87 https://www.wtatennis.com/news/3664918/ ... retirement

by ponchi101 Wish her well. Not a player I will miss. I think she can make a good coach, if that is her direction.

by ti-amie This was part of their exo and so technically not part of the Open but

by JTContinental Svitolina is taking a break from tennis again, but it sounds like she plans to be back at some point.

by ti-amie

JTContinental wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 8:55 pm Svitolina is taking a break from tennis again, but it sounds like she plans to be back at some point.

by ti-amie Non Spanish speaker here.

During Carlitos match vs Arnaldi one of the comms (not if it was Koenig) pointed out Carlitos father, also named Carlos, in the stands and said Carlitos is too old to be called that nickname and said it came about because he wanted to distinguish himself from his father growing up. Carlitos himself said that if you call him "Carlos" he thinks he's about to be punished for doing something wrong.

Is there an age where the nickname "Carlitos" would be retired? If not, why do comms, who don't live in a culture, think that what they would prefer is best for someone?

by ponchi101 In Spanish cultures, the "Itos" and "Itas" really should be retired around 15.
Papa Carlos has a point.

by texasniteowl I may have missed it, but that Adidas outfit with the tiered skirt and two type color + black/white print that Pegula and Kasatkina have worn...anyone else absolutely hate it? Or maybe it's just another one of those things I don't understand as I am getting older?

by meganfernandez

texasniteowl wrote:I may have missed it, but that Adidas outfit with the tiered skirt and two type color + black/white print that Pegula and Kasatkina have worn...anyone else absolutely hate it? Or maybe it's just another one of those things I don't understand as I am getting older?

I liked it on Svitolina. Don’t on Pegula and Kasatkina - skirt is too bottom-heavy for them. Feels like it has one too many elements. Like a fashion-school project. “Look what you can make out of neckties!”

The pro-shop stuff looks better and is very pretty.

by JTContinental It looks like a Raggedy Ann dress

by ponchi101 It depends who wears it. As Megan said, it looked awful on Pegula. But Elina pulled it out nicely.

by ti-amie Some back in the day tennis...

by ponchi101 One of my data points about experience.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 On winning ugly...People are accusing Coco of that, just because Gilbert was such a master at that...I don't think having a great defence can be called 'winning ugly'..it is just Coco's strength..
I once saw a great example of Gilbert winning ugly. This was at Rock Creek Park in the DC area, cica 1988.. Boris Becker won the first set with Gilbert playing pure garbage...then, imperceptibly, Gilbert began to play better..by that time, Becker's level had dropped, just better than Gilbert's..we all know that happens..you play just well enough to win..
But now, Gilbert was getting better and Becker could not find another gear...Gilbert in 3! That is winning ugly: getting your opponent to play badly...

by ponchi101 Agree. And Coco is not winning ugly: the concept of what Gilbert would do was to garbage you all the time, and finding what shots you did not like. It did not work always (Agassi and Pete really had no problem generating their own shots) but for some players, it did, and that was what Gilbert was very good at.
Coco is not like that. She does not change her game to bother you. If her game bothers you, and the defense is too much, she will beat you, but she does not change her style radically between matches.

by dryrunguy I have trouble separating Gilbert the Personality/Commentator with Gilbert the Player. I don't know. It just seems a bit inherently insulting to compare Gauff to Gilbert--in any way. She's a nice kid. Let's not do that.

by ponchi101 But isn't that a bit extreme too? Ok, so Gilbert is not your cup of tea. But it is not as if he is a "bad" person, in the global aspect. To my recollection, he has not been involved in any scandals of any magnitude, seems to be well accepted in the sport, and has a good track record as a coach, nothing toping the fact that together with Riba he took Coco to a slam win.
(BTW, why is Riba being ignored all the time? He is, in theory, coach #1).

And I don't think the comparisons could be avoided; after all, in just three months, that team was able to fulfill a goal that the Moratoglou team was not. And the question here was about their games, not the personas. Coco is obviously not Gilbert, or anybody else for that matter.

She is not being compared to Roscoe Tanner. She is being compared to her coach who, indeed, has a reputation and track record in the sport. I don't think that is too bad.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 "Kids, take a look. Look at the dedication and commitment. Look at the effort being put. This is one the best in the world, and he is out there, honing his skills.
Also. He is unique. MAYBE one of you can get there too. But you must have the gift. So, hit you books too".

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I will take the serve and the BH. The FH is a wonder but there is no margin. In real game situations there are too many errors.
Still, love the game.

by meganfernandez Where does Hall of Fame stuff go?

https://x.com/jon_wertheim/status/17066 ... NR3UfaB2gw

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by ti-amie Just when we thought the racquet smash was a lost artform.

It seems his opponent was practicing what he learned at the Tsitsipas Academy re bathroom breaks and the chair was oblivious to his antics.

It's also a pretty big deal that Kwon, aged 25, would be exempted from 18 months of mandatory military duty if he won the gold at the Asian Games. That in itself is a big deal because members of BTS, who generate a huge portion of the GDP of South Korea, are either currently serving or will be by the end of the year.

Anyway he's written a formal apology. Literally.

Thank goodness someone translated.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

I started to put this in Injuries & Illness thread

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:29 pm

This all comes back to poor scheduling by the WTA. Playing back-to-back tournaments is hardly unusual, but why do the tournaments overlap main draw play?

by ti-amie There have been complaints about WTA scheduling all year. This one was just particularly difficult for the players.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:33 pm

I started to put this in Injuries & Illness thread

Can it really make that much difference?
Serious question.

by Fastbackss I mistyped the contraction "isn't" today and my phone changed it to isner.

"How one knows if someone is a tennis fan..."

by ti-amie

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:14 am I mistyped the contraction "isn't" today and my phone changed it to isner.

"How one knows if someone is a tennis fan..."

by skatingfan

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:14 am I mistyped the contraction "isn't" today and my phone changed it to isner.

"How one knows if someone is a tennis fan..."

Or you're just obsessed with Dreamy John. How are you doing now that he's retired? How are you going to get your DJ fix?

by Fastbackss I deleted my ATP app and downloaded Newsmax* one.

Kidding, obviously.

*noticing that you're Canadian so may not know the reference to the even more right wing TV station that promulgates information akin to a few of the items that DJ has pushed

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:
ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:33 pm

I started to put this in Injuries & Illness thread
Can it really make that much difference?
Serious question.

Evidently. Several players have talked about it.

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by ashkor87 Vondrousova too ...

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:Vondrousova too ...

Wawrinka

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by skatingfan

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:07 pm I deleted my ATP app and downloaded Newsmax* one.

Kidding, obviously.

*noticing that you're Canadian so may not know the reference to the even more right wing TV station that promulgates information akin to a few of the items that DJ has pushed

I've heard of Newsmax - I know your feeling for DJ will overcome any differences.

by Fastbackss

skatingfan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 12:48 am
Fastbackss wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:07 pm I deleted my ATP app and downloaded Newsmax* one.

Kidding, obviously.

*noticing that you're Canadian so may not know the reference to the even more right wing TV station that promulgates information akin to a few of the items that DJ has pushed
I've heard of Newsmax - I know your feeling for DJ will overcome any differences.

(See what happens with 1 week of nelslus posts from NYC)

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:03 pm

This can't happen. It just can't. A player can't do this. This should not be a danger on the court. It's not an acceptable accident. I get that emotions run high out there. Even at the club level, there are tensions and explosive emotions. But you have to recognize the power you have to hurt someone and NOT DO IT RECKLESSLY.

He could have easily hit the ballkid who was approaching, too.

I hope the umpire is okay. And I also hope this doesn't ruin Polmans' career.

by skatingfan You would have thought that after what Shapovalov did a few years ago, and then Djokovic being defaulted at the US Open that players would have learned not to hit a ball in anger. Throw the book at Polmans, and set an example because clearly the message is not getting through.

by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:29 pm You would have thought that after what Shapovalov did a few years ago, and then Djokovic being defaulted at the US Open that players would have learned not to hit a ball in anger. Throw the book at Polmans, and set an example because clearly the message is not getting through.

They know, but the emotions took over. Terrible decision. Find another way to channel the rage at yourself.

by ti-amie

by ptmcmahon Awww cmon I was hoping he'd say something when he started banging the mic

by meganfernandez

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:49 pm Awww cmon I was hoping he'd say something when he started banging the mic

Like what? Game, set, match, Murray?
Overruled?
Deuce, in Kader Nouni's voice?
Stefanos Tsitsipas has requested a bathroom break?
Luke, I am your father?

by ashkor87 Movement is so important in tennis, especially on faster courts..how would you rate the movement and footwork of the top players today?

Just to take a stab at it (movement and footwork ONLY!)
on a scale of 1-10 (10 being the best)
Coco - 10 (Barty would be there if she were playing today)
Swiatek 9
Pegula, Sakkari, Alexandrova, Bencic -8
Rybakina - 7
Sabalenka, Keys - 6
Samsonova 5

On the men's side:

Alcaraz 10
Sinner, Murray, Monfils 9
Ruud, Rune, FAA -8
Zverev, Hurkacz, Berretini 6
Fritz - 5

your thoughts?

by ti-amie

by 3mlm

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 5:29 pm Movement is so important in tennis, especially on faster courts..how would you rate the movement and footwork of the top players today?

Just to take a stab at it (movement and footwork ONLY!)
on a scale of 1-10 (10 being the best)
Coco - 10 (Barty would be there if she were playing today)
Swiatek 9
Pegula, Sakkari, Alexandrova, Bencic -8
Rybakina - 7
Sabalenka, Keys - 6
Samsonova 5

On the men's side:

Alcaraz 10
Sinner, Murray, Monfils 9
Ruud, Rune, FAA -8
Zverev, Hurkacz, Berretini 6
Fritz - 5

your thoughts?

Djokovic? Medvedev? You think Hurkacz and Fritz are better movers?

by ashkor87 No, I just didn't include everybody...go ahead and rate them as you see fit...

by ptmcmahon Pun intended?

by ponchi101 On a hard court, does anybody move better than Deminaur?
Rybakina at 7 I can't agree.
If you give Swiatek a 9, Sakkari gets it too.
Coco at 10, a bit too much.

And I say that the list would mean 10 compared to other current players. I still say Borg was the best mover ever.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:35 pm On a hard court, does anybody move better than Deminaur?
Rybakina at 7 I can't agree.
If you give Swiatek a 9, Sakkari gets it too.
Coco at 10, a bit too much.

And I say that the list would mean 10 compared to other current players. I still say Borg was the best mover ever.

Yes, I meant in the current crop.. I would say Laver was a better mover than Borg but it is close..

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:35 pm Rybakina at 7 I can't agree.

do you mean 7 is too high or too low? If too high, I agree..

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 2:42 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:35 pm Rybakina at 7 I can't agree.
do you mean 7 is too high or too low? If too high, I agree..

Too high. Her movement is her weakness.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Vansh @vanshv2k

2023 WTA 500 Champions

Adelaide 1: Sabalenka
Adelaide 2: Bencic
Abu Dhabi: Bencic
Doha: Swiatek
Charleston: Jabeur
Stuttgart: Swiatek
Berlín: Kvitova
Eastbourne: Keys
Washington: Gauff
San Diego: Krejcikova
Tokyo: Kudermetova
Zhengzhou: Zheng

12 Events - 10 Different Winners

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 100 KPH?!!!! With your non-dominant hand?
Wow.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:16 pm

Interesting that he didn't say world #1. Some players do. I'm sure that's his goal but it's notable that he doesn't say it publically.

As far as a title, he could get it in Tokyo in a couple days. Who's the favorite now, him or Karatsav? I think Ben will be Top 10 in a couple years, maybe even next year.

by ti-amie He is driven and admits it. He was smart not to mention wanting to be #1. It's good to see someone this driven moving up the ranks after putting in the hard work to do so. If you look at his court positioning at the beginning of the year and look now it's almost completely different.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote:He is driven and admits it. He was smart not to mention wanting to be #1. It's good to see someone this driven moving up the ranks after putting in the hard work to do so. If you look at his court positioning at the beginning of the year and look now it's almost completely different.

Oooh good eye. I’ll have to pay attention. Is he into the court more?

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by ponchi101 Sounds to me like somebody with a healthy approach to what he does. #1 at the moment is a tall order. Eyeing top 10/5 probably keeps the expectations well lined.

by Owendonovan Ben seems to have one of the healthier(est) attitudes about sports, competition, reality, who he is, and expectations. One of the the few players I get the sense who understands this could be a short career, so make the most of it while you can.

by ti-amie The latest thing in tennis:

The Tennis Letter
@TheTennisLetter
·
11h
Ben Shelton signs the camera after reaching 1st tour level final in Tokyo:

“Humble and hungry.”

Perfect words to describe this 21 year old.

by ti-amie The Tennis Letter
@TheTennisLetter
·
2h
Arthur Fils signs the camera after beating Stefanos Tsitsipas in Antwerp:

“Humble and hungry.”

Ben Shelton signed the exact same thing earlier today.

by ti-amie Interesting comments by Tio Toni

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote:Interesting comments by Tio Toni

Can’t say I approve of making Rafa practice without water.

So Toni toughened Rafa up and somehow avoided Rafa hating his guts. So it worked. And now he thinks the players are too coddled and too soft mentally.

Rafa was just a one in a million player IMO. And well suited to his circumstances.

by ponchi101 Nothing there that this fellow old foggy does not agree with.
Sample.
Why does Venezuela produce to many great infield players (in baseball)? Because our fields suck. They are dirt and stones and pebbles. One hard drive that you are perfectly lined up for will bounce and smash you face at the last minute. So our infielders have fantastic fantastic reflexes. or missing teeth.
You can't make it too cozy.
THIS IS SPARTAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:33 pm Nothing there that this fellow old foggy does not agree with.
Sample.
Why does Venezuela produce to many great infield players (in baseball)? Because our fields suck. They are dirt and stones and pebbles. One hard drive that you are perfectly lined up for will bounce and smash you face at the last minute. So our infielders have fantastic fantastic reflexes. or missing teeth.
You can't make it too cozy.
THIS IS SPARTAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

by Owendonovan I say bring back practice in empty pools.

by ti-amie

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:13 am I say bring back practice in empty pools.

by skatingfan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 8:32 pm Can’t say I approve of making Rafa practice without water.

So Toni toughened Rafa up and someone avoided Rafa hating his guts. So it worked. And now he things the players are too coddled and too soft mentally.

Rafa was just a one in a million player IMO. And well suited to his circumstances.

Maybe Rafa wouldn't have had so many injury issues if learned to listen to his body when he was younger than than ignoring physical issues in the name of mental toughness.

by mmmm8

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:13 am I say bring back practice in empty pools.

With bombs flying over them? Now getting easier to find again!

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Good for Novak. Honor where honor is due.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Maybe they are listening. And it may be only you, Stan (and Taylor).
It seems to me that this is the same as last year's USO ball issue with the women. Badosa complained that they were using the regular ball, and should be using the heavy duty. This year, somebody complained about using the heavy duty.
Can't please everybody.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:23 pm Maybe they are listening. And it may be only you, Stan (and Taylor).
It seems to me that this is the same as last year's USO ball issue with the women. Badosa complained that they were using the regular ball, and should be using the heavy duty. This year, somebody complained about using the heavy duty.
Can't please everybody.

Casper Ruud said he's fine with different balls. He thinks the variety gives different players a chance week to week, like court speed.

I thought it was Iga who complained.

by ashkor87 vondrousova complained too...

by ponchi101 This year. Vondrousova complained about using the HD balls. Can't recall about when was it that Iga complained (and about which ball).

by ti-amie I thought we had a thread about tennis equipment and racquets but I couldn't find it.

by Fastbackss Not sure how that got published but if I were a player I might be miffed that information made it out

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:51 pm I thought we had a thread about tennis equipment and racquets but I couldn't find it.

We do. If you feel like moving this there:
https://www.talkabouttennis2.com/viewto ... 027#p83027

Interesting data. Gone are the days of Borg (80 Lbs), Pete (80 lbs), Lendl (72.5).
I used to string my racquets at 62. What a fool.

by ti-amie People have answered so I'll leave this here. I reposted it in the Racquets/Strings thread.

by ashkor87 Excellent data!

by ti-amie The closest we're getting to racquet smashing evidence.

Andy Murray 'no longer enjoying tennis' as latest racket smash draws boos in Paris
Murray blew a 5-2 lead in the deciding set against Alex de Minaur who also got the better of the Scot in Beijing last month

By
Simon Briggs,
TENNIS CORRESPONDENT
30 October 2023 • 6:27pm

Andy Murray was once again beaten by Australian Alex de Minaur CREDIT: Getty Images/Dean Mouhtaropoulos

Andy Murray admitted that he is no longer enjoying his tennis after suffering the most soul-crushing of defeats at the Paris Masters.

Murray won this event in 2016, as part of an unstoppable late-season run that carried him to the top of the world rankings. But such happy memories seemed a long away as he smashed his racket five times on the ground at the end of a disastrous loss to Alex de Minaur, the fleet-footed Australian who has become his nemesis this season.

For the second time in a month, Murray led de Minaur by 5-2 in the deciding set, but allowed his advantage to slip away. This instance was arguably even more of a collapse than the similar defeat we saw in Beijing in late September, because he had two chances to serve for the match this time rather than just one.

“I don’t remember finishing a match like that before,” said a vacant-eyed Murray as he stood outside the player lounge in Paris, leaning on a nearby pot-plant and physically shaking with frustration.

“I’m not really enjoying it just now,” he admitted. “Just in terms of how I feel on the court and how I’m playing. For the last five, six months, there’s not really been much positivity there.

“When I play a good point, I’m not really getting behind myself. And then in the important moments, that will to win and fight that has always been a big, big part of my game …” He didn’t complete the sentence, but clearly his mental game has lost its edge.

With respect to his recent struggles in closing out victories, Murray added “Those sorts of situations have happened quite a lot this year, and that’s not really me.”

So is that delicate balance of effort and reward now tilting the wrong way? Is Murray finding that the sacrifices he has to put in, as a 36-year-old with a metal hip, are no longer paying off in satisfaction?

“The last few months it’s been more like that,” he admitted. “I hadn’t really felt like that up until the last few months. I have found the matches frustrating, the competition not as enjoyable as it should be. And then in practice there’s just a lot of frustration there with my game. I’m spending a lot of time focusing on myself and how I’m feeling and how my shots are and just getting extremely frustrated with that. It’s not a great place to be on the court.”

Murray admitted he has been struggling on the court for the last five or six months CREDIT: Shutterstock/Yoan Yalat

So what’s next for the man often described as Britain’s greatest athlete? Murray has entered the ATP 250 event in Metz next week, which sits on the lowest level of the tour pyramid, but he sounded less than sure about attending.

Then it will be on to Malaga in three weeks’ time for Great Britain’s Davis Cup quarter-final against Serbia – a match they must be second-favourites to win, now that Dan Evans has suffered a season-ending calf tear. Even after the indifferent form that has seen Murray lose five of his last six matches, he is still very much required for that appointment.

Murray’s own judgement of Monday’s defeat was that he didn’t play well enough. In particular, he wasn’t picking up regular cheap points on his serve, despite the fast indoor conditions. And yet he still managed to put himself in a dominant position against the world No13 – an achievement which must count for something.

The trouble is that Murray is building up the mental equivalent of scar tissue, especially against this opponent. He has now played de Minaur six times in all, four of them this season, without collecting a single victory.

As soon as Murray dropped serve for the first time to move to 5-3 up, there was a sense of impending doom. He managed to bring up a match point in his next service game, which came at 5-4, but played a cagy rally and then shanked a forehand long. His nerves were clearly wound as tight as violin strings, and the fact that he had already been the victim of a similar de Minaur comeback in Beijing a month ago must have weighed heavily on his mind.

“To be fair to him he didn’t miss any returns,” said Murray. “He gave me no free points and then I didn’t come up with enough good shots when it mattered and then he started playing better. When he went behind in the third set, he definitely started being more aggressive, putting me on the back foot a bit more of that.”

Writing on X, formerly known as Twitter, the British No1 Katie Boulter – who is also de Minaur’s girlfriend – said “Had enough Alex and Andy for the rest of my life. No more please and thank you.”

However sick Murray might have been feeling about his 7-6, 4-6, 7-5 loss, he didn’t behave quite as tempestuously as he did in Beijing, where he repeatedly tossed his racket onto the ground and pushed past a cameraman on his way off the court.

There was just the one smashed racket at the end of this one, and that only arrived after the final point had been played. Murray’s fury drew a few scattered boos from the Parisian fans, even though he had generally enjoyed the lion’s share of crowd support.

The mangled frame served as a visual metaphor for his fading career. Even though Murray managed to break back into the world’s top 40 in August, his progress has stalled again, and he has not been able to secure his longed-for place among the 32 seeded players at the majors.

Still, while Murray might say that he’s losing his enthusiasm for tennis, he remains as stubborn as a Staffordshire bull terrier. When asked whether he planned to rethink his support team, he didn’t sound like a man who is ready to quit.

“Most of what I put out on the court is my responsibility,” he said. “I’m 36 years old now, and have the team around me that I’ve chosen, The results are ultimately my performance. But also if I want to keep going, I’m going to need a lot of work.

“I’m still training hard, I’m practising hard, I’m doing all the work in the gym and everything. I’ve just not been improving in the areas that I feel like I need to. Lots of the guys are serving big, getting a lot of free points and it used to be something I could rely on quite a lot. And I’m not doing that now. Something like that, I’m going to need a lot of work with my team.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2023 ... ed-defeat/

by nelslus I like Murray a lot off the court. But, IMO, he's always been pretty unpleasant to watch, with his career-long negativity, shouting, barking at his team, and whining. Now, I just can't stand watching any of his matches. If it's so much torture for you- stop already.

by ponchi101 I could watch his matches. A bit of modern day Wilander, strategically.
But hard to go against what you say.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:39 pm

No Next Gen?

by skatingfan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:05 pm No Next Gen?

I'm not seeing a lot of confirmation about how is playing. Obviously Alcaraz, and Rune will not be, but I would have thought they would be releasing info on other players.

by ashkor87 not sure if this is reliable but it is relatively recent..
https://tennisnerd.net/how-court-surfac ... is-betting

court speeds are rated as follows (roughly corresponds to what I have been observing so I tend to believe it)

AO: 42
Turin 42.1
Shanghai 42.9
Paris 37.5
Canada (which one?) 36.3
USO 35.4
Cinci 33.6
Miami 30.3
IW 27.4

FO 21
Montecarlo 24.9
Madrid 20.9
Rome 22

by ponchi101 I can't open the page.
How does the scale read? What does the number implies? A coefficient of something?

by Fastbackss

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 1:04 pm I can't open the page.
How does the scale read? What does the number implies? A coefficient of something?

I don't see where it is explained but they do give the following:

Slow Court: <29
Medium Slow Court: 30-34
Medium Court: 35-39
Medium Fast Court: 40-44
Fast Court: >44

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 1:04 pm I can't open the page.
How does the scale read? What does the number implies? A coefficient of something?

I gather it is a combination of coefficient of restitution with (1 minus coefficient of friction)..I read that somewhere else, in another article on the same subject.

by ashkor87 On scheduling.. one idea worth exploring is the use of buffers - Theory of Constraints tells us the buffers should be held to the end, not used up along the way. So dont schedule the QFs onwards too tightly, have some slack, so unforeseen contingencies can be managed - like rain, unexpectedly long matches etc. I am a big fan of Goldratt..

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:On scheduling.. one idea worth exploring is the use of buffers - Theory of Constraints tells us the buffers should be held to the end, not used up along the way. So dont schedule the QFs onwards too tightly, have some slack, so unforeseen contingencies can be managed - like rain, unexpectedly long matches etc. I am a big fan of Goldratt..

Good point. And who is Goldratt?

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by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 12:46 pm And who is Goldratt?

Dr. Eliyahu Goldratt, Israeli physicist, creator of Theory of Constraints.. read Goal if you can - written as a novel, perfect introduction to Theory of Constraints

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:15 am not sure if this is reliable but it is relatively recent..
https://tennisnerd.net/how-court-surfac ... is-betting

court speeds are rated as follows (roughly corresponds to what I have been observing so I tend to believe it)

AO: 42
Turin 42.1
Shanghai 42.9
Paris 37.5
Canada (which one?) 36.3
USO 35.4
Cinci 33.6
Miami 30.3
IW 27.4

FO 21
Montecarlo 24.9
Madrid 20.9
Rome 22

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:15 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 1:04 pm I can't open the page.
How does the scale read? What does the number implies? A coefficient of something?
I don't see where it is explained but they do give the following:

Slow Court: <29
Medium Slow Court: 30-34
Medium Court: 35-39
Medium Fast Court: 40-44
Fast Court: >44

That sounds reasonable and at the same time very unlikely.
Let's assume that indeed it is a coefficient of restitution. That would mean that, after the ball bounces, it would keep only the original speed TIMES the coefficient.
So. For the AO, a ball hit at 100 KPH would travel at 42 KPH AFTER THE BOUNCE. But that would mean that the courts at the AUSSIE would be twice as fast as at RG and, although I can perfectly well see that the Aussie is faster than RG, it is not that much faster.
I have a hard time accepting that. Agree it has to be some coefficient, but maybe it is a more complex formula.

by ashkor87 It is a linear combination , as I said, of coefficient of restitution and (1 minus coefficient of friction,,,) with weights to each component

by Fastbackss Taylor Townsend gave a walkover yesterday in the quarters at Midland. Hopefully she is okay

by Fastbackss John Millman retiring at end of Australian swing

by meganfernandez

Fastbackss wrote:John Millman retiring at end of Australian swing

He is outspoken on Twitter. Hope he stays involved. Will be remembered for beating a Federer at the U.S. Open that year when the bottom of Ashe stadium had the conditions of an infrared sauna.

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by ti-amie

by ashkor87

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 10:30 pm Taylor Townsend gave a walkover yesterday in the quarters at Midland. Hopefully she is okay

She is playing in BJK cup...maybe that is what it was about

by Owendonovan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 5:03 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:15 am not sure if this is reliable but it is relatively recent..
https://tennisnerd.net/how-court-surfac ... is-betting

court speeds are rated as follows (roughly corresponds to what I have been observing so I tend to believe it)

AO: 42
Turin 42.1
Shanghai 42.9
Paris 37.5
Canada (which one?) 36.3
USO 35.4
Cinci 33.6
Miami 30.3
IW 27.4

FO 21
Montecarlo 24.9
Madrid 20.9
Rome 22

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:15 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 1:04 pm I can't open the page.
How does the scale read? What does the number implies? A coefficient of something?
I don't see where it is explained but they do give the following:

Slow Court: <29
Medium Slow Court: 30-34
Medium Court: 35-39
Medium Fast Court: 40-44
Fast Court: >44
That sounds reasonable and at the same time very unlikely.
Let's assume that indeed it is a coefficient of restitution. That would mean that, after the ball bounces, it would keep only the original speed TIMES the coefficient.
So. For the AO, a ball hit at 100 KPH would travel at 42 KPH AFTER THE BOUNCE. But that would mean that the courts at the AUSSIE would be twice as fast as at RG and, although I can perfectly well see that the Aussie is faster than RG, it is not that much faster.
I have a hard time accepting that. Agree it has to be some coefficient, but maybe it is a more complex formula.

I play tennis at work with a collegue on a polished hardwood basketball court just for fun, ball speed doesn't change much after the bounce. We have padded walls in that gym.

by ashkor87 Wood courts are notoriously fast ...

by meganfernandez

Owendonovan wrote:
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 5:03 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:15 am not sure if this is reliable but it is relatively recent..
https://tennisnerd.net/how-court-surfac ... is-betting

court speeds are rated as follows (roughly corresponds to what I have been observing so I tend to believe it)

AO: 42
Turin 42.1
Shanghai 42.9
Paris 37.5
Canada (which one?) 36.3
USO 35.4
Cinci 33.6
Miami 30.3
IW 27.4

FO 21
Montecarlo 24.9
Madrid 20.9
Rome 22

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:15 pm I don't see where it is explained but they do give the following:

Slow Court: <29
Medium Slow Court: 30-34
Medium Court: 35-39
Medium Fast Court: 40-44
Fast Court: >44
That sounds reasonable and at the same time very unlikely.
Let's assume that indeed it is a coefficient of restitution. That would mean that, after the ball bounces, it would keep only the original speed TIMES the coefficient.
So. For the AO, a ball hit at 100 KPH would travel at 42 KPH AFTER THE BOUNCE. But that would mean that the courts at the AUSSIE would be twice as fast as at RG and, although I can perfectly well see that the Aussie is faster than RG, it is not that much faster.
I have a hard time accepting that. Agree it has to be some coefficient, but maybe it is a more complex formula.
I play tennis at work with a collegue on a polished hardwood basketball court just for fun, ball speed doesn't change much after the bounce. We have padded walls in that gym.

Yikes! We had a basketball court at my old office and I thought about hitting on it.

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by ti-amie

by ashkor87 Sad...maybe good for them though...hadn't been looking very positive on the court lately ..noticeable at the USO even ..

by ashkor87 Wonder how much stress on the relationship because K doing much better than S in singles...may have motivated Siniakova to take singles more seriously, which she did seem to, this year. The fact that most courts are slower now, will favor doubles specialists, who tend to be a bit slower on their feet - which is often why they do better in doubles in the first place (Sania, Bhupathi, Rajeev Ram...)

by dryrunguy (Dumb question... Where are we talking about the ATP finals? For the life of me, I can't find the thread. I saw the WTA YEC thread, but I can't find the ATP parallel thread.)

by ti-amie Sorry Dry! I put it under team and country cups (and was rightly chastised for it!)

by ashkor87

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 12:04 am Sad...maybe good for them though...hadn't been looking very positive on the court lately ..noticeable at the USO even ..

Reports say it was Siniakova's decision, took K by surprise ...

by ti-amie Spinopsys
@spinopsys@aus.social
Look, you can never say never but this career looks like it’s toast. It’s fast becoming a curiousity and a train wreck. A pub quiz night question. Done in by thinking she knows more than actual professional coaches with winning WTA Tour experience. It’s clear she does not listen to anyone.

Compare her to Leylah Fernandez, the other surprise 2021 USO finalist, who has has had her best season on Tour this year, capped with leading Canada to a BJK Cup Title. Steady and doing the work of becoming a consistent performer at the top level #Tennis

https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/67406695?

Emma Raducanu: Briton pulls out of December exhibition match

By Russell Fuller
BBC tennis correspondent

Britain's Emma Raducanu has pulled out of an exhibition match in Macau at the start of December as she continues her rehabilitation from hand and foot operations.

The 2021 US Open champion - who turns 21 today - has not played since April, but is still hoping to return to the tour in January.

The exhibition in China has come too soon, however, especially as the organisers wanted time to seek out a potential replacement.

Raducanu has fallen to 289 in the world rankings, but will be able to use a protected ranking of 103 next year as she has not played for over six months.

That might be high enough for a place in the main draw of the Australian Open, but she is still likely to need a wildcard for the WTA Tour events in Brisbane and Auckland in the first week of the season.

Raducanu has been restricted to just nine matches in 2023 and in May had an operation on both of her hands and left ankle, which she injured in Auckland in the first event of the year.

The hand pain, caused by a bone very close to her wrists, had been troubling her since the end of the 2022 season.

Raducanu returned to the court to begin some very light work at the start of August, and posted a video of herself hitting some soft, oversized tennis balls to Kyle Edmund at the National Tennis Centre in London.

But progress in the first two months was slow and Raducanu took the opportunity to visit her grandmother in China. It was not until the start of October when a more structured return to tour competition began to take shape under the guidance of LTA staff at the National Tennis Centre.

If Raducanu's rehab was behind schedule at this stage - and her summer months were described as a "bit of a black hole" by one observer - then genuine progress appears to have been made since.

She has been working through the different coloured tennis balls children start out with. That means beginning with a red ball, which is decompressed and has little bounce, before progressing to an orange, green and then the regular yellow ball.

There is not yet any sign of Raducanu developing a team around her which could offer stability and confidence as she returns to the tour.

Raducanu said shortly after her three operations that "circumstances made it unfeasible" for her to continue working with Sebastian Sachs, and she is still without a dedicated coach.

Her short-lived partnership with Andy Murray's former strength and conditioning coach Jez Green has also fizzled out, and she is currently using LTA staff for both fitness and physio.

Whether or not Raducanu is on the starting line for the first tournament of the new year, she says she has been "very itchy and hungry to go for quite some time now."

"I think the biggest thing from the last few months was how much I missed the sport," she told Today on BBC Radio 4 last month.

"I think that was the standout thing - how much I missed training, how much I missed my body hurting and feeling tired and dragging yourself through certain exercises when you don't feel like it."

by Owendonovan "I think that was the standout thing - how much I missed training, how much I missed my body hurting and feeling tired and dragging yourself through certain exercises when you don't feel like it."
That was a couple years ago, Emma.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 1:39 am

She can take vacation whenever she wants or needs to. Not without consequences, but she can afford any fines. She should prioritize her body and health. Complaints still valid.

by ashkor87 "major"
https://www.wtatennis.com/news/3788088/ ... 0set%20for

Some interesting predictions from Navratilova, who knows a thing or two about tennis!
Hard to disagree with her but I would bet on Coco for the AO, Swiatek for the French, Muchova for Wimbledon and Saba for the USO....

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:41 pm "major"
https://www.wtatennis.com/news/3788088/ ... 0set%20for

Some interesting predictions from Navratilova, who knows a thing or two about tennis!
Hard to disagree with her but I would bet on Coco for the AO, Swiatek for the French, Muchova for Wimbledon and Saba for the USO....

I'm going with Sabalenka to repeat at AO, Swiatek for the French, Cooc or Jabeur at Wimbledon, a surprise at the Olympics (maybe Leylah), and Osaka at the US Open.

Also betting that injuries will continue to keep Muchova off the podium.

Edit: I did mine before clicking on the link with Navratilova's predictions. Osaka's former hitting partner thinks she will do very well because she's just better than most women on the tour when she is in form.

by meganfernandez Was this alraedy posted? So sad. I'll miss Anett. Her match with Serena at the US Open was amazing.
https://www.wtatennis.com/news/3784299/ ... ith-jabeur

by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:56 pm Was this alraedy posted? So sad. I'll miss Anett. Her match with Serena at the US Open was amazing.
https://www.wtatennis.com/news/3784299/ ... ith-jabeur

Kontaveit is certainly a good player, and, like all good players, will be missed .
But she should have been able to beat Serena, all it took was solid professional play, as Tomljanovic showed..Kontaveit was #2 in the world.

by ashkor87 https://www.wtatennis.com/news/3789961/ ... yer-awards

Not that we have any say but maybe a poll on this could be fun..

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:02 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:56 pm Was this alraedy posted? So sad. I'll miss Anett. Her match with Serena at the US Open was amazing.
https://www.wtatennis.com/news/3784299/ ... ith-jabeur
Kontaveit is certainly a good player, and, like all good players, will be missed .
But she should have been able to beat Serena, all it took was solid professional play, as Tomljanovic showed..Kontaveit was #2 in the world.

Kontaveit struggled after getting COVID in the spring of 2022. It took her months to recover, and I don't think she ever fully did. Her #2 ranking was from the previous fall and earlier in 2022, before she got COVID. I was actually surprised she played as well as she did versus Serena.

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:23 pm https://www.wtatennis.com/news/3789961/ ... yer-awards

Not that we have any say but maybe a poll on this could be fun..

I'm contributing to Tennis.com's year-end coverage, which includes weighing in on Player of the Year and things like that. I went with Sabalenka for POTY because she changed the narrative of her career. Her legacy was heading toward "best player to never win a Slam." She vanquished her demons - the Australian Open final was a nailbiter, the kind of close big match she had choked away before - and changed her story. She suffers because it all happened so early in the season and she lost the #1 ranking to Swiatek at the end. But I think what she accomplished is bigger than what Swiatek did, by a hair.

Swiatek certainly has a good case by seizing hte No. 1 ranking at the end of the year. Could go either way.

I had to make a case for 5 players each in the WTA and ATP. It was pretty hard to do more than 2 on each side. I had to write it before the ATP Finals, and Carlos still had a play at it. But even then Novak was pretty much the runaway winner and now of course he is. For the women, it's either Sabalenka or Swiatek. I made a decent case for Coco - her 18-1 blitz in the summer had it all and she came through under the heaviest expectations possible and stole the show in 2023. But after that, I was reaching to make a case for Vondrousova and Svitolina as my 4 and 5 picks.

Sinner, Medvedev and Shelton were my 3-5 picks for the men. I really wanted to pick Mannarino. I hope he fits in one of the categories we haven't worked on yet.

by ashkor87 Wow! Good to know you do have a hand in all this...

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:24 pm Wow! Good to know you do have a hand in all this...

We all kind of do because I learn so much on this forum!

by ashkor87 My vote would be:
Player of the year - Iga. Overall, she has been the dominant player, won two big titles
Comeback player- Svitolina - shr has actually come back better than before, performed better at majors, beat players she did not before,
Newcomer - andreeva
We need categories like- best crowd engager, most telegenic, and best racket-smasher too! Plus most gracious player..win or lose.

by ashkor87 Most improved would be Coco

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:51 am Most improved would be Coco

Hmmmm. Maybe. She didn't have a huge way to go, but she did go all the way with her improvement. You are probably right.

Comeback is Vondrousova, IMO. From outside the Top 100 to Wimbledon champ.

I hope there's a category for Svitolina. Love your observation that she beat players she didn't before. Can I steal it?

Some fun categories would be nice. Best speechmaker, entertainer, outfit, celebration, activist, competitor, spoiler...

by ashkor87 Can I steal it?

Yes, of course!!

by ti-amie

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:38 am My vote would be:
Player of the year - Iga. Overall, she has been the dominant player, won two big titles
Comeback player- Svitolina - shr has actually come back better than before, performed better at majors, beat players she did not before,
Newcomer - andreeva
We need categories like- best crowd engager, most telegenic, and best racket-smasher too! Plus most gracious player..win or lose.

I have to agree about Iga as Player of the Year. She's also the only one who came ready to take names at every tournament she played.

Elina Svitolina is also my Comeback Player of the Year

Cori Gauff would be my choice for Most Improved. Let's see how she does with her latest coaching change. (Pere Riba left. Jarmere Jenkins is in)

Best Racquet Smash would be Aryna Sabalenka.

Can we add most disappointing and nominate Maria Sakkari? There is no way she can be happy with the year she had.

I keep thinking Andreeva is the Fruhvitova sisters of 2023. Just my opinion...

If we do a most telegenic we're going to have to have the same category for the men.

How to categorize Rybakina and Pegula?

by ti-amie Well this is close

Jimmie48/WTA

But nothing beats this. Nice try Jimmie

by ptmcmahon To be fair, that looks like any group of 8 people these days.

by ti-amie

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 7:15 pm To be fair, that looks like any group of 8 people these days.

by ti-amie Someone compiled this montage of WTF moments from 2023. The last image showing Carlos wishing Raducanu well never happened. It was also weird that she replied to correct his spelling and then deleted her response but never said thank you.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 6:21 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:38 am My vote would be:
Player of the year - Iga. Overall, she has been the dominant player, won two big titles
Comeback player- Svitolina - shr has actually come back better than before, performed better at majors, beat players she did not before,
Newcomer - andreeva
We need categories like- best crowd engager, most telegenic, and best racket-smasher too! Plus most gracious player..win or lose.
I have to agree about Iga as Player of the Year. She's also the only one who came ready to take names at every tournament she played.

Elina Svitolina is also my Comeback Player of the Year

Cori Gauff would be my choice for Most Improved. Let's see how she does with her latest coaching change. (Pere Riba left. Jarmere Jenkins is in)

Best Racquet Smash would be Aryna Sabalenka.

Can we add most disappointing and nominate Maria Sakkari? There is no way she can be happy with the year she had.

I keep thinking Andreeva is the Fruhvitova sisters of 2023. Just my opinion...

If we do a most telegenic we're going to have to have the same category for the men.

How to categorize Rybakina and Pegula?

Rybakina and Pegula don't get an award. Wah-wah. They had solid Top-5 seasons but didn't improve.

Was Jarmere not already in as Coco's hitting partner? Is that new?

by ti-amie That could be the case. I only saw him after Pere Riba left.

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:21 am That could be the case. I only saw him after Pere Riba left.

He was with Gauff when she won Cinncinati.

by ashkor87 I don't think Sakkari would be disappointed. She won a wta 1000 event..never won anything more than a 250 several years ago .
Pegula is improved, just that she was already very good, she is 5% better .
Rybakina is a bit of a disappointment certainly, but only a bit..she did well enough, won two big titles, finals of AO and Miami..semis at W, pretty good .in fact I would say she has become more consistent..the one I am really pleased with is Samsonova..on slow courts, she is now a major force..

by skatingfan

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 3:11 am I don't think Sakkari would be disappointed. She won a wta 1000 event..never won anything more than a 250 several years ago .
Pegula is improved, just that she was already very good, she is 5% better .
Rybakina is a bit of a disappointment certainly, but only a bit..she did well enough, won two big titles, finals of AO and Miami..semis at W, pretty good .in fact I would say she has become more consistent..the one I am really pleased with is Samsonova..on slow courts, she is now a major force..

Next year she does needs to do better in the finals - only won 5 games in 2 WTA 1000 finals this year.

by ashkor87

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 6:21 pm If we do a most telegenic we're going to have to have the same category for the men

yes, of course, else we woud be sexist...
I think the corresponding nominees on the men's side woule be :
Player of the year Djokovic, of course
Most improved: Sinner
Comeback player: not sure.. Monfils?
Newcomer ; again, not sure, my vote would be Michelsen..

Most gracious woud be Alcaraz - maybe Bopanna
Bet racket smash would be - Rublev?
Most disappointing: Tsitsipas

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:
ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 6:21 pm If we do a most telegenic we're going to have to have the same category for the men
yes, of course, else we woud be sexist...
I think the corresponding nominees on the men's side woule be :
Player of the year Djokovic, of course
Most improved: Sinner
Comeback player: not sure.. Monfils?
Newcomer ; again, not sure, my vote would be Michelsen..

Most gracious woud be Alcaraz - maybe Bopanna
Bet racket smash would be - Rublev?
Most disappointing: Tsitsipas

Shelton is the ATP newcomer. Top 15

Monfils yes for comeback. Won a title.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:43 pm Shelton is the ATP newcomer. Top 15

is this his first year on the circuit? if so, then yes, clearly newcomer of the year..

by mmmm8

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:20 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:23 pm https://www.wtatennis.com/news/3789961/ ... yer-awards

Not that we have any say but maybe a poll on this could be fun..
I'm contributing to Tennis.com's year-end coverage, which includes weighing in on Player of the Year and things like that. I went with Sabalenka for POTY because she changed the narrative of her career. Her legacy was heading toward "best player to never win a Slam." She vanquished her demons - the Australian Open final was a nailbiter, the kind of close big match she had choked away before - and changed her story. She suffers because it all happened so early in the season and she lost the #1 ranking to Swiatek at the end. But I think what she accomplished is bigger than what Swiatek did, by a hair.

Swiatek certainly has a good case by seizing hte No. 1 ranking at the end of the year. Could go either way.

I had to make a case for 5 players each in the WTA and ATP. It was pretty hard to do more than 2 on each side. I had to write it before the ATP Finals, and Carlos still had a play at it. But even then Novak was pretty much the runaway winner and now of course he is. For the women, it's either Sabalenka or Swiatek. I made a decent case for Coco - her 18-1 blitz in the summer had it all and she came through under the heaviest expectations possible and stole the show in 2023. But after that, I was reaching to make a case for Vondrousova and Svitolina as my 4 and 5 picks.

Sinner, Medvedev and Shelton were my 3-5 picks for the men. I really wanted to pick Mannarino. I hope he fits in one of the categories we haven't worked on yet.

I think a good case for Svitolina is not the results on their own but how little time she took off to then come back in great form. Compounded with her off-court work for Ukraine, it's very impressive!

by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 4:15 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:20 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:23 pm https://www.wtatennis.com/news/3789961/ ... yer-awards

Not that we have any say but maybe a poll on this could be fun..
I'm contributing to Tennis.com's year-end coverage, which includes weighing in on Player of the Year and things like that. I went with Sabalenka for POTY because she changed the narrative of her career. Her legacy was heading toward "best player to never win a Slam." She vanquished her demons - the Australian Open final was a nailbiter, the kind of close big match she had choked away before - and changed her story. She suffers because it all happened so early in the season and she lost the #1 ranking to Swiatek at the end. But I think what she accomplished is bigger than what Swiatek did, by a hair.

Swiatek certainly has a good case by seizing hte No. 1 ranking at the end of the year. Could go either way.

I had to make a case for 5 players each in the WTA and ATP. It was pretty hard to do more than 2 on each side. I had to write it before the ATP Finals, and Carlos still had a play at it. But even then Novak was pretty much the runaway winner and now of course he is. For the women, it's either Sabalenka or Swiatek. I made a decent case for Coco - her 18-1 blitz in the summer had it all and she came through under the heaviest expectations possible and stole the show in 2023. But after that, I was reaching to make a case for Vondrousova and Svitolina as my 4 and 5 picks.

Sinner, Medvedev and Shelton were my 3-5 picks for the men. I really wanted to pick Mannarino. I hope he fits in one of the categories we haven't worked on yet.
I think a good case for Svitolina is not the results on their own but how little time she took off to then come back in great form. Compounded with her off-court work for Ukraine, it's very impressive!

I agree, it's very impressive. I made that very case with her as my #5 pick for Player of the Year - if the point of sports is to inspire, Svitolina told that story better than anyone else.

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 4:10 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:43 pm Shelton is the ATP newcomer. Top 15
is this his first year on the circuit? if so, then yes, clearly newcomer of the year..

His first full year on the main tour. Last year, he played Challengers and then got WCs into Atlanta, Cincy and the US Open. He beat Ruud in Cincy, so he got some attention. Michelson only played ITF and Challengers last year. I don't know what the criteria will be for Newcomer. Maybe Ben is the Breakout Player and Sinner is Most Improved.

by ti-amie

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 3:55 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 6:21 pm If we do a most telegenic we're going to have to have the same category for the men
yes, of course, else we woud be sexist...
I think the corresponding nominees on the men's side woule be :
Player of the year Djokovic, of course
Most improved: Sinner
Comeback player: not sure.. Monfils?
Newcomer ; again, not sure, my vote would be Michelsen..

Most gracious woud be Alcaraz - maybe Bopanna
Bet racket smash would be - Rublev?
Most disappointing: Tsitsipas

Newcomer of the Year - Ben Shelton hands down
Comeback Player - Gaël Monfils managing to win a title
Racquet Smash - Andrey Rublev
Most Disappointing - Stefanos Tsitsipas
As y'all have noticed I'm not big on Sinner so I'll take your word for it that he's most improved.
I'm not sure about how to categorize Carlos. Second only to Djokovic?

I'm still thinking about most telegenic.

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:36 pm Newcomer of the Year - Ben Shelton hands down
Comeback Player - Gaël Monfils managing to win a title
Racquet Smash - Andrey Rublev
Most Disappointing - Stefanos Tsitsipas
As y'all have noticed I'm not big on Sinner so I'll take your word for it that he's most improved.
I'm not sure about how to categorize Carlos. Second only to Djokovic?

I'm still thinking about most telegenic.

In terms of Sinner as most improved - just look at his ranking - he's now clearly in the #4 position, and he'll have a chance next year to move ahead of Medvedev.

In term of most disappointing what about Casper Ruud - came within a couple of sets of being #1 at the US Open last year, and this year finished outside the top 10.

Most telegenic is either Alcaraz, or Shelton - they both love the spotlight.

Rublev also deserves the Mikhail Youzhny Award for drawing blood while trying to smash a racquet on himself.

by ti-amie

skatingfan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:02 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:36 pm Newcomer of the Year - Ben Shelton hands down
Comeback Player - Gaël Monfils managing to win a title
Racquet Smash - Andrey Rublev
Most Disappointing - Stefanos Tsitsipas
As y'all have noticed I'm not big on Sinner so I'll take your word for it that he's most improved.
I'm not sure about how to categorize Carlos. Second only to Djokovic?

I'm still thinking about most telegenic.
In terms of Sinner as most improved - just look at his ranking - he's now clearly in the #4 position, and he'll have a chance next year to move ahead of Medvedev.

In term of most disappointing what about Casper Ruud - came within a couple of sets of being #1 at the US Open last year, and this year finished outside the top 10.

Most telegenic is either Alcaraz, or Shelton - they both love the spotlight.

Rublev also deserves the Mikhail Youzhny Award for drawing blood while trying to smash a racquet on himself.

Wow I totally forgot about Ruud. He should be most disappointing not Stefanos I think. There are a lot of people who thought he'd be at least ranked #2 by the end of the season and not just here. The pressure of expectations maybe?

And another TAT Award is created! Agree about the recipient of the Mikhail Youzhny award.

by Owendonovan Felix Auger Aliassime was a big disappointment this year as well.

by ashkor87 Ruud was probably the most disappointing, I agree .but I never thought very highly of his game so not personally disappointed ..to me, he is a latter-day Ferrer, could do well but cannot contend for big trophies

by ashkor87 apparently, Djokovic has now held serve the last 34 times he has served.. that is truly remarkable, when we consider the fact that he was not initially known for his serve, and the quality of his opposition -Medvedev, Sinner, Alcaraz.. this is beginning to get into Gonzales territory...

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 11:07 am apparently, Djokovic has now held serve the last 34 times he has served.. that is truly remarkable, when we consider the fact that he was not initially known for his serve, and the quality of his opposition -Medvedev, Sinner, Alcaraz.. this is beginning to get into Gonzales territory...

Gonzo? That Gonzales? He held serve a lot?

by ashkor87 Ricardo Alonzo Gonzales

He was never broken when serving for a set...

by ashkor87 Trivia...he was once married to Agassi's sister

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:37 pm Trivia...he was once married to Agassi's sister

Pancho Gonzales? Never broken while serving for the set? Ever? Crazy stat.

by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 5:39 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:37 pm Trivia...he was once married to Agassi's sister
Pancho Gonzales? Never broken while serving for the set? Ever? Crazy stat.

His serve was probably the best ever...to me, he is the GOAT

by ti-amie Didn't he also perfect the tactic of serve and volley?

by ti-amie

by ashkor87

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 12:32 am Didn't he also perfect the tactic of serve and volley?

I think credit for that would go to Jack Kramer and Althea Gibson...

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

I think these are courts in Minnesota.

by mmmm8

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 8:05 pm

A not very fun fact - Davydenko was born and lived until age 11 in a city that was destroyed by Russian troops last year. He was a Ukrainian citizen until age 18.

by ti-amie I can't like your post mmmm8. Thank you for the information.

by ashkor87 https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/wt ... ondrousova

#meganfernandez
Nice to see !

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/wt ... ondrousova

#meganfernandez
Nice to see !

Thanks!! I didn’t vote for the #5 players, Rublev and Pegula. So my quotes aren’t in those.

They also used my Medvedev quote on the tweet:

https://x.com/tennis/status/1729636292848128028?s=46

Here’s the Medvedev story:

https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/at ... l-medvedev

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by meganfernandez

mmmm8 wrote:
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 8:05 pm
A not very fun fact - Davydenko was born and lived until age 11 in a city that was destroyed by Russian troops last year. He was a Ukrainian citizen until age 18.

I had no idea!

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by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:30 am Here’s the Medvedev story:

https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/at ... l-medvedev

yes, saw that.. but does that mean Tennis rating Sinner #3, ahead of Medvedev? Not sure that is right.. but close, certainly..

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:30 am Here’s the Medvedev story:

https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/at ... l-medvedev
yes, saw that.. but does that mean Tennis rating Sinner #3, ahead of Medvedev? Not sure that is right.. but close, certainly..

I assume Sinner will be #3, yes. I don’t know the results! Ten contributors voted for the top 5 ATP and WTA players. Everyone’s first pick got 5 points, their second 4 points, and so on. The only suspense is whether WTA #1 will be Iga or Sabalenka. I went with Sabalenka but expect most went with Swiatek.

Sinner prob benefits from the recently effect and beating Djokovic twice. Medvedev had more titles but didn’t improve like Sinner did (Med improved only compared to 2022). We expect him to do that well. So I think that’s why people voted Sinner as #3. I bet some voted him as #2, but how can we put him over the Wimbledon champ?

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by ashkor87 Thanks #meganfernandez for the explanation...

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:15 am

Amen. I WANT players to want to be #1 in the world and own it. There's nothing wrong with it.

by ashkor87 Interesting that Tennis ranks Pegula higher than Rybakina...Pegula won a 1000 event, Rybakjna won Indian Wells, generally considered the biggest tournament outside the majors, plus the Italian. Recency bias? Or just plain old American bias?!

by skatingfan

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:52 am Interesting that Tennis ranks Pegula higher than Rybakina...Pegula won a 1000 event for the first time, Rybakjna won Indian Wells, generally considered the biggest tournament outside the majors, plus the Italian. Recency bias? Or just plain old American bias?!

Probably a bit of recency affect.

by ti-amie I'd say a bit of both. Rybakina didn't show much late in the season and Pegula was always there plugging away.

by ashkor87 Sorry, not first time for Pegula.. she had won Guadalajara

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:Interesting that Tennis ranks Pegula higher than Rybakina...Pegula won a 1000 event, Rybakjna won Indian Wells, generally considered the biggest tournament outside the majors, plus the Italian. Recency bias? Or just plain old American bias?!

And Rybakina got to a Slam final and nearly won. It’s a good question. Probably more recency bias than American, IMO…. and evidence that Rybakina fails to make an impression off the court… and is fairly inconsistent.

I would have put her over Pegula. To me, 4 and 5 weren’t really the fourth and fifth best results but people who had an incredible year in other ways, too. For my 5 picks on both tours, I went with players who had at least a credible claim to Player or the Year and made a big impression on the tours. For the men, there were 3-4… for the women, 3 IMO. The other picks were never going to win conventional POTY but I thought they had unconventional POTY stories.

Confession: I also struggled to say anything interesting about Pegula or Rybakina. I knew I would write something better about Svitolina, who was my #5 pick instead of the other two, and it’s boring to just stick to the rankings. There are X factors.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote:

Fritz’s vocal fry gets on my nerves.

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by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:51 pm For my 5 picks on both tours, I went with players who had at least a credible claim to Player or the Year and made a big impression on the tours.

yes, that is an interesting and valid way to think about it.. Player of the Year need not be 'best player'..Kasatkina, Svitolina,Kostyuk come to mind ,,

by dryrunguy I would expect a guy who allowed himself to be the focus of an ad campaign that started with, "I'm obsessed with the number 1" to be pretty receptive to anyone else who basically says the same thing.

by ponchi101 I believe that the stat about Pancho Gonzalez is that he was never broken when serving for THE MATCH. Not the SET.
Still, an incredible stat, if true. The Wiki page makes no mention of that fact. which would be a prominent one. Maybe some other source is needed.

by ti-amie

Translated from Spanish by Google
My last reflection after the announcement...

of course I thought that it made no sense (to compete again)... that it has been many years...

I have fought and I have maintained the illusion at all times

I have had the right people around me as I have always had throughout my career...

… the people who want to see me play have had an impact

There is a good chance that it will be my last year, without a doubt.

Thank you all.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:22 am I believe that the stat about Pancho Gonzalez is that he was never broken when serving for THE MATCH. Not the SET.
Still, an incredible stat, if true. The Wiki page makes no mention of that fact. which would be a prominent one. Maybe some other source is needed.

not sure where I got that factoid.. by the way there is a movie Pancho Gonzalez, Warrior of the court..

by meganfernandez Who watched the Djokovic interview on 60 Minutes? Here's Part 2, the outtakes, extras, etc. https://t.co/KaMQOyNzYZ

by JTContinental Krejcikova and Siniakova are not playing together in 2024

by meganfernandez

JTContinental wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:06 pm Krejcikova and Siniakova are not playing together in 2024

yeah, I think Krejcikova said it was Siniakova's decision.

by Fastbackss

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2023 4:21 pm Who watched the Djokovic interview on 60 Minutes? Here's Part 2, the outtakes, extras, etc. https://t.co/KaMQOyNzYZ

Thank you for posting this.

As a tennis fan, this is way more interesting than what was on TV. With that preface I get why they edited it like they did. The outtakes are way more "inside" than is needed for someone who isn't a diehard fan

by ashkor87 https://www.wtatennis.com/news/3818533/ ... -announced

Only one I would disagree with is 'most improved' ...

If anything QZ was a bit better last year, I thought.. Coco is the one who has improved the most...else BHM would be my choice

by meganfernandez

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 3:22 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2023 4:21 pm Who watched the Djokovic interview on 60 Minutes? Here's Part 2, the outtakes, extras, etc. https://t.co/KaMQOyNzYZ
Thank you for posting this.

As a tennis fan, this is way more interesting than what was on TV. With that preface I get why they edited it like they did. The outtakes are way more "inside" than is needed for someone who isn't a diehard fan

Yeah, 60 Minutes is a general audience. Not us tennis nerds.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie I agree with Kyrgios. I've always felt that you can't compare eras in tennis.

From the article:

Nick Kyrgios in the interview with The Athletic (excerpt):

He holds in special contempt people who argue that stars of previous eras, even all-time greats such as Pete Sampras, could survive at the top of the hyper-athletic, modern power game.

“The game was so slow back then,” he says. “I’ve watched Boris Becker and I’m not saying they weren’t good in their time, but to say that they would be just as good now, it’s absurd,” he says. “A big serve back then was like 197 to 200 (km per hour — about 122mph). People like me, we serve 220 consistently, to corners. It’s a whole different ball game.”

Now Kyrgios is rolling…

“I’m not saying they wouldn’t have found their way,” he says of the old-timers. “But serve and volley, to do it all the time now, you need to be serving 220, because if you serve anything less than 220, bro, Djokovic eats you alive. He eats you alive. Bro, Lleyton Hewitt destroyed Sampras one year at the U.S. Open. That was the first prototype of someone who could return serve. (Note to Kyrgios, Andre Agassi had a pretty good service return, too.)

“He made Sampras look like sh*t. And what would Djokovic do to someone like Sampras? It would be a cleanup. If Hewitt was doing it, Djokovic would destroy him. He would eat him alive.”

by JTContinental

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:10 am
JTContinental wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:06 pm Krejcikova and Siniakova are not playing together in 2024
yeah, I think Krejcikova said it was Siniakova's decision.

I don't think Gauff and Pegula are playing this year either, so there is room at the top in doubles.

by meganfernandez

JTContinental wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:17 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:10 am
JTContinental wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:06 pm Krejcikova and Siniakova are not playing together in 2024
yeah, I think Krejcikova said it was Siniakova's decision.
I don't think Gauff and Pegula are playing this year either, so there is room at the top in doubles.

Hsieh Su-Wei + anyone.

I'm surprised because it's an Olympic year and you'd think they would want to practice together. Maybe they aren't planning to play dubs in the Olympics. Too much tennis in the summer.

by meganfernandez

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 5:41 pm
Fastbackss wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 3:22 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2023 4:21 pm Who watched the Djokovic interview on 60 Minutes? Here's Part 2, the outtakes, extras, etc. https://t.co/KaMQOyNzYZ
Thank you for posting this.

As a tennis fan, this is way more interesting than what was on TV. With that preface I get why they edited it like they did. The outtakes are way more "inside" than is needed for someone who isn't a diehard fan
Yeah, 60 Minutes is a general audience. Not us tennis nerds.

Part 3, more goodies for tennis fans

by JTContinental

JTContinental wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:17 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:10 am
JTContinental wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:06 pm Krejcikova and Siniakova are not playing together in 2024
yeah, I think Krejcikova said it was Siniakova's decision.
I don't think Gauff and Pegula are playing this year either, so there is room at the top in doubles.

They might still try to pair up for that but Coco is scaling back on doubles this year

by ashkor87 https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/le ... ll-of-fame

I don't care much for this hall of fame thingy but still, nice to see Vijay and Leander honoured...

by ashkor87 And the journalist Richard Evans..who is he?!

by mick1303 Kyrgios is full of sh*t. 2001 version of Sampras was quite removed from his athletic best. Due to his health problems Pete could not sustain his physical prime all that long. Now about "What Djokovic would do to Sampras". He is correct if Sampras plays with 90s strings and sticks and Djokovic with modern ones. But is it a fair comparison? Aging Federer, who is stylistically quite close to Sampras, gave Djokovic all he could handle in 2019 Wimbledon final. When he was closer to his prime, in some matches he was able to just take the raquet out of Novak's hands completely - much like Pete done to his opponents.
Djokovic's prolonged success is due to the fact, that he continues to improve and incorporate more attacking tennis to his game. Today's Djokovic has more in common with Sampras than with Hewitt IMO.

by ashkor87 Djokovic is upset that Ivanisevic did not get even a nomination for coach of the year...
He should take it as a compliment to himself! Djokovic doesn't need coaching?!

by skatingfan

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 2:47 am Djokovic is upset that Ivanisevic did not get even a nomination for coach of the year...
He should take it as a compliment to himself! Djokovic doesn't need coaching?!

No, Ivanisevic was nominated.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/cahill- ... f-the-year

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:Djokovic is upset that Ivanisevic did not get even a nomination for coach of the year...
He should take it as a compliment to himself! Djokovic doesn't need coaching?!

Right. Goran suffers from Djokovic’s greatness. People don’t know what he is contributing and he is probably short-changed.

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by meganfernandez

mick1303 wrote:Kyrgios is full of sh*t. 2001 version of Sampras was quite removed from his athletic best. Due to his health problems Pete could not sustain his physical prime all that long. Now about "What Djokovic would do to Sampras". He is correct if Sampras plays with 90s strings and sticks and Djokovic with modern ones. But is it a fair comparison? Aging Federer, who is stylistically quite close to Sampras, gave Djokovic all he could handle in 2019 Wimbledon final. When he was closer to his prime, in some matches he was able to just take the raquet out of Novak's hands completely - much like Pete done to his opponents.
Djokovic's prolonged success is due to the fact, that he continues to improve and incorporate more attacking tennis to his game. Today's Djokovic has more in common with Sampras than with Hewitt IMO.

Agree that Sampras (adjusted for 2023 standards) would compete well with Djokovic today. His volleys were better than anything Djokovic sees today.

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by ashkor87 https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/ho ... eakthrough
I wouldn't say she has no obvious weakness..her movement is a 4 on 10 at best .but very impressed that dhe has beaten Rybakjna all 4 times they have met..they are actually quite similar players.. Samsonova is a tad more powerful but also a tad slower. I hope for good results from her this year but I actually thought '23 was as good as she was ever going to be.

by ashkor87 Sampras ..first time I saw him, he was annihilating Lendl at the USO .his shots were so flat and fearless, no topspin, no safety margin, (he was Lansdorp's disciple after all,), I said to myself - this is just a one-time miracle, it will never happen again...he can't keep doing this again and again...I feel the same about Swiatek when she hits those off-forehand winners. I hope I am as wrong as I was with Sampras!

by ti-amie Interesting. I just found out that my daughter is a huge Sampras fan.

by Fastbackss Saw that Kostyuk was supposed to play Andreeva in an exo today.

Kostyuk pulled out at the last minute due to the geopolitical situation.

They backfilled with a gentleman ranked number 1045 in the world.

He won 7-5, 6-2. Sound like she was up a break in the first.

(Yes I realize it was an exo, but it's the off-season and this has been a topic for eons)

by ashkor87 Read a sweet little story - Vijay Amritraj, visiting London, got a chance to meet the great Gonzales, an idol of his, at a pre-Wimbledon event. Pancho got him over to Las Vegas and worked with him on his second serve...added power and sting to it. Vijay went on to win a tournament, beating Laver and Connors...

by ashkor87

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 3:12 am I just found out that my daughter is a huge Sampras fan.

we all are, I think we all are!

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote:Interesting. I just found out that my daughter is a huge Sampras fan.

Wait, is ashkor your daughter??

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by ashkor87 Is anyone here NOT a Sampras fan, big or small?

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:Is anyone here NOT a Sampras fan, big or small?

I’m ambivalent. I respect him a lot but didn’t often cheer for him. I wish he was around more and I could get to know him better. My good friend always says, “Pete is my GOAT,” so most of my affection for Pete is by proxy.

by Fastbackss I second Megan's ambivalence and chalk it up to Midwestern (US) sensibilities

by ti-amie

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:59 am
ti-amie wrote:Interesting. I just found out that my daughter is a huge Sampras fan.
Wait, is ashkor your daughter??

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by ti-amie Sampras in his later years was the reason I stopped watching tennis. I got sick of his over reliance on his serve. I never talked about Sampras with my daughter until recently and she went all sasaeng (Korean super fan) over how he could see the court, how he placed his shots and I was like "who are you?"

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:51 pm Sampras in his later years was the reason I stopped watching tennis. I got sick of his over reliance on his serve. I never talked about Sampras with my daughter until recently and she went all sasaeng (Korean super fan) over how he could see the court, how he placed his shots and I was like "who are you?"

Was she living in your house during his heydey? You didn't know she watched him and liked him? Who did you think she liked?

by ashkor87 Btw Sampras' sister is head coach of the women's team at my alma mater UCLA..another reason for me
But I do admit I usually rooted for Agassi to beat him (which was not often) but my own game is very much serve-based so....

by ti-amie

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:01 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:51 pm Sampras in his later years was the reason I stopped watching tennis. I got sick of his over reliance on his serve. I never talked about Sampras with my daughter until recently and she went all sasaeng (Korean super fan) over how he could see the court, how he placed his shots and I was like "who are you?"
Was she living in your house during his heydey? You didn't know she watched him and liked him? Who did you think she liked?

Yes she was. I started taking her to the US Open when she was 8 or 9. It was after he was sick on court vs Corretja. Come to think of it her father and I always watched tennis so she had plenty of chances to see him.
I guess we never talked about him in depth before.

by ponchi101

mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:50 pm Kyrgios is full of sh*t. 2001 version of Sampras was quite removed from his athletic best. Due to his health problems Pete could not sustain his physical prime all that long. Now about "What Djokovic would do to Sampras". He is correct if Sampras plays with 90s strings and sticks and Djokovic with modern ones. But is it a fair comparison? Aging Federer, who is stylistically quite close to Sampras, gave Djokovic all he could handle in 2019 Wimbledon final. When he was closer to his prime, in some matches he was able to just take the raquet out of Novak's hands completely - much like Pete done to his opponents.
Djokovic's prolonged success is due to the fact, that he continues to improve and incorporate more attacking tennis to his game. Today's Djokovic has more in common with Sampras than with Hewitt IMO.

The one player I feel could give Novak some problems would have been Agassi. Novak has feasted on all these players that stand 6-8 feet behind the baselines. That means 12-16 feet of travel for the ball, and the subsequent extra time. With Agassi, who was always trying to come closer to the net and stood just at the baseline, Novak would have had a lot less time. Both Rafa and Daniil give him that extra split second for Novak to get ready.
Keeping in mind the racquet tech difference, Connors could also give him some issues; he was also playing on top of the baseline, so that would have taken the time out of Novak's game.
I don't see Sampras affecting Novak unless they would play on very fast courts. As definitive as Pete was, Novak's ability to bunt balls back and use his opponent's power to redirect shots would beat Pete's attacking game.

by ptmcmahon As an Agassi fan I naturally could never fully warm up to Sampras

by meganfernandez Has Novak ever played a truly great serve-and-volleyer? Federer was probably the best he faced, and he didn’t charge constantly.

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by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:43 pm Has Novak ever played a truly great serve-and-volleyer? Federer was probably the best he faced, and he didn’t charge constantly.

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There haven't been any, in this generation...for various reasons..the last of that ilk was McEnroe
But I don't think Djokovic would be bothered by a serve-and-volley player, his return and reflexes are too good..more likely to be bothered by an Agassi-type, who is simply better at everything than himself (I am not claiming Agassi was)..Alcaraz will give him serious trouble over the next year or two, so will Sinner.. Zverev has always shown the ability to beat hm, so if he gets back to where he was beore the injury..

by ti-amie

Screenshot 2023-12-23 at 10.38.00 PM.png

by meganfernandez Raonic still thinks he can win a Slam. Podcast interview here:

https://shaptennispod.com/

by meganfernandez Tara Moore evidently exonerated from a doping charge. She has spent some of that time coaching at a club outside Indianapolis. Her girlfriend, Emina Betkas, is from here and they both have trained here at times. While Tara was sidelined and they didn't play doubles together, Emina cracked the top 100 in singles.

Source of steroids she tested positive from was some meat. Another player had the same situation from the same event.

https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/te ... tive-tests

Judy Murray came to her defense.

by ashkor87 Watching the WTL - Rybakina and Cirstea vs Badosa and Sabalenka...astonished at how good Ryba is at doubles!

by Fastbackss Wonder if Tara will be granted a Protected Ranking

by ti-amie

I don't know how Kyrgios made it onto this list and Safin didn't. #justsaying

by mmmm8 LOL at Kyrgios inclusion.

Also... Laver?

by Fastbackss Looks at graphic and thinks "yet people think the off-season is too short..."

by ponchi101 Kyrgios is not UNDER rated. He is an UNDER achiever, which is not the same.
A HUGE underachiever.

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25, 2023 10:12 pm I don't know how Kyrgios made it onto this list and Safin didn't. #justsaying

Recency bias.

by ashkor87

skatingfan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2023 10:13 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25, 2023 10:12 pm I don't know how Kyrgios made it onto this list and Safin didn't. #justsaying
Recency bias.

Many people have never heard of Safin..unless you really follow tennis...I sometimes wonder about some journalists .they probably cover a couple of sports and dont really focus on tennis, maybe.

by ti-amie The a large segment of the tennis community on Reddit feel Kyrgios is their guru. Go figure.

by ponchi101 A guru? On what subject?
I mean, I can see people believing that Novak is a guru on nutrition and wacky health issues, but Nick?

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 11:20 pm A guru? On what subject?
I mean, I can see people believing that Novak is a guru on nutrition and wacky health issues, but Nick?

They idolize him much the same way the same sort of men idolize that Andrew Tate person.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

She's right.

by ashkor87 Kasatkina for WTA President! or at least Players Rep..

by JTContinental Vesnina is returning to the tour in 2024 following the birth of her second child.

by ashkor87 Mind-blowing stat - Djokovic has won one third of all the grand slam tournaments he has entered ! (Says tennis.com)..I can't even begin to get my head around that!

by ti-amie

I agree.

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 10:19 pm

I agree.

I disagree - this a tired argument that every aging player makes when the pace of the game starts to pass them by. Just because younger players can hit the ball harder - Jannik Sinner - doesn't mean that there's no tactics, but it might mean that the tactics have changed, and just because Nadal can't keep up is no reason to disparage younger players.

by ti-amie I have to disagree skating.

Rafa has always played the way described in the interview. He's always had the patience to play clay, something many players lack today. He learned the quicker responses needed to play hard court tennis and grass but his game was always tactical.

The top players today (I guess with one major exception. I don't watch his matches) do play way behind the baseline and get into long rallies (Rublev for example) and wait for the mistake but that leads to a discussion of how the courts have been slowed to adapt to technology and whether the really fast hard courts of the '90's are going to make a come back (I hope not. It's so boring.)

I'm just hoping his comeback is moderately successful. I don't expect dazzling play from him especially in Australia.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25, 2023 10:12 pm

I don't know how Kyrgios made it onto this list and Safin didn't. #justsaying

Laver (huge omission) is a GOAT - he won 2 Grand Slams! McEnroe is a Legend. Murray is a Great - his lowly count of 3 Slams is deceiving in the Big 4 era, and he won 2 Olympic golds and broke the long dryspell of a Brit winning Wimbledon.

I don't think any of the Underrateds are Underrated. Delpo is a Coulda-Been, but you can say that about a lot of players who were stopped short by injury. Stan is properly rated, I think. He dazzled at times and took down two GOATS at their peak to win Slams, but he was pretty inconsisent otherwise. Nick, no. Unfulfilled potential, that's all.

by meganfernandez Youzhny said Shapo didn't work hard enough before they split, and Shapo takes issue with that.

https://x.com/TheTennisLetter/status/17 ... 52572?s=20

https://x.com/denis_shapo/status/174060 ... 60680?s=20

by meganfernandez There's no United Cup 2024 thread, it seems. Pegula-Boulter is a great match. Boulter is playing top 10-level tennis today, per David Witt. He's impressed. Pegula won 6 straight game to go up a set and 3-0, then Boulter won the second set 6-4. She is being pretty aggressive. Pegula is getting more free points on serve than Boulter.

by ashkor87 McEnroe is a GOAT in my eyes, doubles is tennis too!

by atlpam

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 4:41 am There's no United Cup 2024 thread, it seems. Pegula-Boulter is a great match. Boulter is playing top 10-level tennis today, per David Witt. He's impressed. Pegula won 6 straight game to go up a set and 3-0, then Boulter won the second set 6-4. She is being pretty aggressive. Pegula is getting more free points on serve than Boulter.

Definitely a high quality match. I couldn’t manage to stay up and watch the 3rd set - not ready for my annual tennis down under sleep deprived state yet.

by meganfernandez

atlpam wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 4:41 am There's no United Cup 2024 thread, it seems. Pegula-Boulter is a great match. Boulter is playing top 10-level tennis today, per David Witt. He's impressed. Pegula won 6 straight game to go up a set and 3-0, then Boulter won the second set 6-4. She is being pretty aggressive. Pegula is getting more free points on serve than Boulter.
Definitely a high quality match. I couldn’t manage to stay up and watch the 3rd set - not ready for my annual tennis down under sleep deprived state yet.

It didn’t feel like an exo. Made me wonder if Boulter could make a run at the Top 10 this year.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by skatingfan I started a thread for United Cup.

https://talkabouttennis2.com/viewtopic. ... 95#p100095

by ti-amie

by skatingfan Nadal looks like he's spent a lot of time in the gym working on his upper body.

by ponchi101

skatingfan wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:08 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 10:19 pm

I agree.
I disagree - this a tired argument that every aging player makes when the pace of the game starts to pass them by. Just because younger players can hit the ball harder - Jannik Sinner - doesn't mean that there's no tactics, but it might mean that the tactics have changed, and just because Nadal can't keep up is no reason to disparage younger players.

Wilander made the same comments late in his career.

by ti-amie Despite the goofy illustration there were some interesting responses to the OP's points.

TheShirou97
·
14 hr. ago
A single player born in 2003 already has as many slams as all players from the 90s combined.

level 2
ActualProject
·
4 hr. ago
Slam count by birth decade:

00s: 2

90s: 2

80s: 80

And in case you can't multiply, there are 40 slams a decade. So the 90s players basically got completely engulfed by the 80s

The worst part of this stat? It's looking like the 80s number will increase more than the 90s number when it's all said and done

Professional_Elk_489
·
12 hr. ago
Alcaraz was the first non-Big 4 player to win Wimbledon (2023) since Hewitt in 2002

TheShirou97
·
12 hr. ago
Yep. The Big 3 have 66 slams between them, that's 16 and a half years worth of slams.

indeedy71
·
14 hr. ago
It’s almost like this is partly why people consider the Big 3 to be the best all-time, because they did something no other generation before them could do

HereComesVettel
·
10 hr. ago
Roger Federer & Jo-Wilfried Tsonga

This still doesn't explain why Alcaraz at only 20 already surpassed the players born in the 90's. If you tell me that's because Carlos is generational, then you're kind of proving the OP right. If every decade produces an ATG player except the 1990's, then it makes sense to call this generation weak.

Medvedev, Zverev, Tsitsipas & co are the ones supposedly in their prime right now, the fact they are not as good as post-peak Djokovic and pre-peak Alcaraz raises questions.

GibbyGoldfisch
·
13 hr. ago
Tsitsipas: A riddle inside an enigma inside a lavatory

You say that, but when you look at most of the best players born in the 90s:

Dimitrov, Raonic, Thiem, Schwartzman, Medvedev, Zverev, Kyrgios, Tsitsipas, Rublev, Ruud, Berrettini, De Minaur, Shapovalov...

It's hard to escape the feeling that most have fairly limited games, and several of them are not serious people, big three or no big three

bellestarflower
·
14 hr. ago
Anything starting from 2017 is weak era. It has been actually discussed by analysts etc. that 90s gen have a different forehand grip that doesn't damage Big 3, they stopped S&V completely, hated coming to net and that all just helped the trio keep their dominance over them. Nadal got a pretty powerful slice and Djokovic added solid volleys to his arsenal. It's about adaptation and those three were really good at it.

2000s are very aggressive and don't shy away from coming forward, even Sinner has been adding more variety. That makes all the difference against them.

huynguyentien
·
13 hr. ago
Can you show me the analysis about the forehand grip, because honestly that sounds extremely (expletive) to me. Another thing is that the statement about the 2017 era hating coming to the net is also factually incorrect, although I do see where this coming from since a lot of the very top players of this gen is indeed like that, but I can think of a few exceptions like Hurkacz, Tsitsipas, and Berrettini.

Variety is an improvement for Sinner but his groundstroke remains the biggest reason for his success.

bellestarflower
·
13 hr. ago
·
edited 13 hr. ago
At the top of my head:

https://hughclarke.substack.com/p/part- ... wingweight

https://hughclarke.substack.com/p/death ... i?r=11vdz2

https://hughclarke.substack.com/p/chang ... um=reader2

Federer was very open about how shocked he was that people kept avoiding net in Shanghai 2017. There is an ESPN article that says he was trying to get coaches to encourage juniors coming more towards to net & learning serve and volley.

edit: Also groundstrokes being the main weapon for Sinner is a "duh" statement. It's the new added variety that made him Top 4 however. Cahill and Vagnazzi have alluded to that many times.

I haven't yet but I'm going to look at the links given to check out what the poster is talking about re grips. We talked about it a bit with Cori but tbh I haven't looked at the ATP players.

Who would you guys pick as an all time great born in the 90's? Not potential great but great.

by ponchi101 ATG born in the 90's. Yes, it looks like it is a void category, so far. I say Tsitsipas still can do something, but that is a big COULD.

by mmmm8 "A riddle inside an enigma inside a lavatory"

by mmmm8 There are no - and I don't think will be - any All-time Great men's singles tennis players born in the 90s. The only contenders, unless someone has a true mid/late career jump are Medvedev and Thiem and I don't see Medvedev winning more than 2-3 more slams and Thiem winning any.

I think the winningest male player from the 90s is Mate Pavic in doubles?

by Owendonovan Almost all the #1 and 2 seeds are in the finals this weekend.

by ti-amie

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:16 pm Almost all the #1 and 2 seeds are in the finals this weekend.

I noticed that too! What a rarity these days.

by ti-amie

by Owendonovan She's gotten wildcards before and has only gotten as far as the 2nd round, once. She comes off a little whiny to me.

by mmmm8 How has it been going on for more than a decade if she's only represented Australia since 2014?

by nelslus

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 2:32 am How has it been going on for more than a decade if she's only represented Australia since 2014?

.... Apparently, Australia didn't like her before she was an Australian.

by ponchi101 This believe that you are deserving of a WC forever is indeed odd.
You get a few WC's at the beginning of your career, or after you go through an injury and need a bit of help. if you get WC's forever and are forever stuck in the 150's, well, you simply don't have it to be a very top player.
Yep, a bit whiny to me too.

by ashkor87 Glad to see Taylor partnering BHM..that is the kind she needs..a classic serve and volley player..both being lefties is ok...

by Owendonovan The new rule that has Australian Open players divided -- and has nothing to do with actual tennis

MELBOURNE, Australia -- Tennis has long been a game associated with decorum and well-behaved fans. "Quiet please," is the name of the game, at least during play.

But in a rule introduced for this year's Australian Open, fans are now allowed to leave their seats as well as enter and exit the courts at Melbourne Park between games, and not just at changes of ends.

It's been met with divided opinions on the tour. Australian world No. 47 Jordan Thompson, at his home Grand Slam, was less than impressed during his first-round match when fans started moving and talking during the sometimes very brief breaks.

After asking the chair umpire to do something about the noise and movement, Thompson was informed of the new rules, to which he responded: "You're kidding me. Really? Oh my God, this is the wokest tournament ever."

Later, in his press conference following what ended up being a five-set win, Thompson clarified he used the wrong word "in the heat of battle" and "probably shouldn't have said it," but maintained the new rule was not a good one.

Yes Jordan, you probably shouldn't have said that, but you did. Now you've put yourself in a category of people that aren't well regarded. If you choose to use the word "woke" negatively, you're probably racist or afraid your standing as a white male is threatened.

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... ors-moving

by ponchi101 Just for my information.
If you are now against the woke movement, are you immediately racist?

by Owendonovan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 3:49 am Just for my information.
If you are now against the woke movement, are you immediately racist?

At a minimum, for me, I would say ignorant if you're against having the knowledge of how POC are/were treated. This ignorance almost always leads to or is a symptom of some level of racism, at least here in the USA.

by ponchi101 I thought that the woke movement was not only about the way POC are/were treated. It seems to me it encompasses other concepts.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie His use of the word "woke" in that situation says a lot. The only people who use that term are usually involved with politics that are grievance based and anti anything remotely accepted by the majority here in the US.

(Boy did I have to do some mental gymnastics to not use certain words)

by meganfernandez Speaking of woke, this woke me up. Seriously, why do guys do this? He isn't the only one. Commenter said junior guy players have been doing this for 20 years. Can someone translate, please?

https://x.com/Spllomi/status/1748042190729703663?s=20

by nelslus

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 5:51 pm Speaking of woke, this woke me up. Seriously, why do guys do this? He isn't the only one. Commenter said junior guy players have been doing this for 20 years. Can someone translate, please?

https://x.com/Spllomi/status/1748042190729703663?s=20

......Overcompensation?

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Emma Raducanu: I may step down a level to recapture my form
Briton stranded just inside the world’s top 300 – which is too low to earn her direct entry into WTA events on ranking alone

Simon Briggs,
TENNIS CORRESPONDENT, IN MELBOURNE
19 January 2024 • 4:25pm

Emma Raducanu says she is prepared to drop down a level in the search for more match experience, which could mean a visit to the second-tier ITF circuit.

After her three-set loss to China’s Yafan Wang on Thursday, Raducanu remains stranded just inside the world’s top 300 – which is comfortably too low to earn her direct entry into WTA events on her ranking alone.

She has already received a wild card invitation into the Abu Dhabi Open, which starts on Feb 5. From there, the question is whether Doha and Dubai – the next two big events in the Middle East – will also be keen to fast-track her into the draw.

If not, she could end up playing a humble $40,000 event at the National Tennis Centre in Roehampton in the week after Abu Dhabi (Feb 12 onwards), or perhaps a $60,000 in Porto the week after (Feb 19 onwards).

The prize money for winning those events would respectively be £3,140 and £4,750 – a drop in the ocean for a woman who was ranked No 4 on the Forbes rich list for female athletes last year, with an estimated income of around £12 million. Her US Open triumph brought in around £1.8 million on its own.

“I really believe that the difference in level between the quote ‘lower-level tournaments’ and these tournaments is not that big,” said Raducanu in Melbourne. “Because you gain so many skills, you’re playing in these conditions. The wind here was a prime example. My opponent [Wang] played a lot of ITF and got a lot of matches under her belt, but the level really isn’t that different. So yeah, I would play whatever suits my schedule, whatever suits the plan.”

After Dubai, the next big tournaments are the American duo of Indian Wells and Miami, known as the Sunshine Double, which occupy almost the entire month of March. Raducanu’s protected ranking of No 103, which she can use in eight more tournaments after her first deployment here at the Australian Open, should be good enough to earn her a spot in qualifying at those events. But she sounds like she is keen to get a decent run of matches first.

“I would love to compete beforehand,” said Raducanu, when asked about the Sunshine Double. “I think now going back, training a little bit, tidy some things up. Then it depends on the ranking and wild-card situation.”

And what about the team around her? Nick Cavaday, the childhood coach whom she first worked with as a six-year-old at Bromley Tennis Academy, is to continue for the immediate future. Raducanu said: “The work we’re doing has been paying off, because to get me to this level from nothing, after only six weeks, was good.”

The next question is whether she should engage a travelling fitness trainer, especially in view of the way she has been fading in deciding sets. Three of her four matches on this trip to Australia and New Zealand have been three-setters, and in two of them she was seriously undermined by a loss of physical condition. Even when she beat Elena-Gabriela Ruse in Auckland, she came under pressure from a surging opponent and only managed to save herself via some clutch serving at the death.

Raducanu sounded open to this idea. “I worked with a really good trainer back in London,” she said. “But he’s with the Lawn Tennis Association, so I don’t know if he travels too much. I think that certain weeks sporadically travelling with a fitness coach is a great idea. For example, when the tournaments are two-week events [which applies to both Indian Wells and Miami]. If you get knocked out early, it’s a prime opportunity to do a 10-day little block. So I think it’s something to be looked at. But in the immediate future. I think it’s just getting more time in practice for tidying up any bugs.”

Bugs were certainly an issue for Raducanu against Wang. She found herself retching into a towel during the third set, after contracting what she suggested was some kind of gastric virus. And then there was the forehand glitch – more the sort of thing she was referring to above – which saw her air-mail perhaps a dozen balls well over the baseline.

Thursday night still delivered a decent showing, however, against an opponent who plays in a similar style to Raducanu herself. And the whole experience of being back on 1573 Arena – the same court where she won her first-round match last year – felt highly motivational.

“It’s pretty surreal,” she said of the warm support she received from the fans, who included many British expats. “I really missed that feeling. Wow, I think being away and coming back, I was really taken aback and surprised by how much support I was getting. So I was really taking it in but not in like a farewell kind of way. I was more like ‘Well, I just want to keep going and keep seeing them all’.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2024 ... lian-open/

by meganfernandez Tsurenko confronted people on Twitter who rejoiced that she lost to Sabalenka so badly - or made fun of her, not sure which. She said her friend in Ukraine was just released from Russian captivity after a year and a half and has a leg infection, and just being alive makes her happy, so suck it. Basically.

https://x.com/ltsurenko/status/1748626214724546894?s=46

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by Owendonovan Mannarino has a kind of "above it all" arrogance I don't really care for.

by skatingfan

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 4:42 pm Mannarino has a kind of "above it all" arrogance I don't really care for.

I think he was just lying, probably to himself as well given that he went out and won 3 games.

by ponchi101 I find it hard to label as "arrogant" a man that basically goes out there to play in his pajamas.

by 3mlm Mannarino, at 35, just had the best year of his career, winning three titles, is at a career high ranking, is the #1 ranked player in France, a country with ten top hundred players, and just lost to the world #1, the best slam player ever, in the 4th round of a slam. Probably feeling OK about himself.

by ponchi101 I did not know he had reached #1 in France. That must be worth a pretty franc for the rest of his life.

by ti-amie Djokovic: Easier to get along with young guns than Federer, Nadal
Novak Djokovic opened up about the differences between his relationships with his Big Three rivals and younger stars like Daniil Medvedev and Carlos Alcaraz. Read his words…

Sasa Ozmo
January 22, 2024

When Novak Djokovic speaks to Serbian reporters at Grand Slams, those are usually opportunities to ask about topics not strictly related to matches. On Sunday in Melbourne, Djokovic spoke about his relationship with the younger generation of players compared to his relationship with his greatest rivals Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer.

The motive behind the question were nice words spoken by Daniil Medvedev about Novak during his post-match press conference on Saturday – the Russian recalled a story back from 2017, when Djokovic offered to take him with a private jet to Niš where Serbia and Russia were due to meet in a Davis Cup tie.

He was asked: “In this final stage of your career, do you prefer to be surrounded by young stars that have a different relationship towards you – some even openly like you like Medvedev – or was your wish to bring your career to the end alongside Federer and Nadal?”

To which Djokovic responded: “First of all, I want to thank Daniil for his kind words, he pleasantly surprised me.

“He did already tell that story, but I very much appreciate the way he brought it to people. I, too, have the best possible opinion about him as a person, colleague, and as one of my biggest rivals in the last five years. I know that he is a man with the right values and it’s true when he says that he has a great relationship with the majority of the Tour – I can see it in the locker room, he and his team try to communicate nicely with everybody.”

Djokovic said that doesn’t have any regrets about not finishing his career alongside Federer.

“Yes, no particular regret or it would (mean something to me) to finish alongside Nadal. They are two of my biggest rivals – especially Nadal, as I’ve said numerous times – and that’s never going to change. The amount of energy spent on our rivalry during all these years, how many times we played each other (Djokovic leads head-to-head 30-29)… It’s impossible for me to play Alcaraz sixty times. That won’t be possible, because he will finish his career before me,” Djokovic said bursting out laughing, then added, of his relationship with the younger generations:

“Jokes aside, I am really enjoying the rivalries I have with all those guys. Alcaraz, Medvedev, Sinner, everybody near the top I get along with quite nicely. If I were to compare my relationship with them to the one I had with Federer and Nadal, the relationship with my younger fellow players is much better, nicer. I enjoy it.”

Asked to elaborate on his words, Djokovic replied:

“I don’t know, it’s just more open, the younger guys are more communicative. We just get along better, that’s it.”

In the quarterfinals of the Australian Open, Djokovic will continue his quest for a record 25th major title and an eleventh at the Ausrtralian Open. The 24-time Grand Slam champion is due to face Taylor Fritz, with whom he holds a 8-0 record.

https://www.tennismajors.com/australian ... 39307.html

by ponchi101 "It is so much easier to have a great relationship with players that I know will fold like a cheap chair the moment they step on court against me".

by Owendonovan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 5:51 pm Speaking of woke, this woke me up. Seriously, why do guys do this? He isn't the only one. Commenter said junior guy players have been doing this for 20 years. Can someone translate, please?

https://x.com/Spllomi/status/1748042190729703663?s=20

I've noticed that compression underwear leads to more picking of the area.

by ponchi101 Do players really do that a lot? Serious question.

by Owendonovan Enough to comment on......

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 2:11 am Do players really do that a lot? Serious question.

I've seen it a few times and one commenter on the Hurkacz photo said he has coached for 40 years and juniors have been doing this for 20. It must be a thing. I just don't know what it means. (Not exactly, I can sorta guess.) The compression underwear could be involved.

There's a photo of Rafa doing it... and not like it was his first time. Very pronounced.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 2:03 am "It is so much easier to have a great relationship with players that I know will fold like a cheap chair the moment they step on court against me".

by meganfernandez Does anyoNE know who Wertheim is talking about here?

"There was a late-night U.S. Open match from maybe 20 years ago that is still discussed. A broadcaster who knew little about tennis was brought in, and the result was legendary—literally, as in, the legend of this broadcast is still discussed and lines repeated."

by ashkor87 The only one I remember is Pat Sumerall at the USO in 82 or 83..he did say a few silly things like I expect Connors to win because he is American but nothing really legendary

by skatingfan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 8:18 pm Does anyoNE know who Wertheim is talking about here?

"There was a late-night U.S. Open match from maybe 20 years ago that is still discussed. A broadcaster who knew little about tennis was brought in, and the result was legendary—literally, as in, the legend of this broadcast is still discussed and lines repeated."

Nothing is coming to mind.

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 12:58 am The only one I remember is Pat Sumerall at the USO in 82 or 83..he did say a few silly things like I expect Connors to win because he is American but nothing really legendary

That was 40 years ago, not 20 years ago.

by ashkor87 Now you are reminding me how old I am!

by ti-amie Media reports are that Djokovic will skip Dubai and not play again until Indian Wells. I'm looking for another source to confirm the report. So far zilch.

by ashkor87

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:17 am Media reports are that Djokovic will skip Dubai and not play again until Indian Wells. I'm looking for another source to confirm the report. So far zilch.

Hmm..maybe his body is sending him a message, and we know he does listen to it

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 Is Osaka any good at doubles? Or only playing for practice?

by Oploskoffie

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 9:06 am Is Osaka any good at doubles? Or only playing for practice?

I'm tempted to think it's a mix of practice and some fun. She hasn't played doubles at WTA level since 2017 and in the last doubles match of that year she was partnered by her older sister.

by meganfernandez

Oploskoffie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 3:56 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 9:06 am Is Osaka any good at doubles? Or only playing for practice?
I'm tempted to think it's a mix of practice and some fun. She hasn't played doubles at WTA level since 2017 and in the last doubles match of that year she was partnered by her older sister.

Maybe they are forming a support group. They both need a comeback. This will be fun to watch, I hope. Jabeur is one of only 2 people Osaka will hit with, along with Anisimova.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

The first time I heard the word "Pickleball" I was talking with a snowbird/part time resident of Florida so this isn't a surprise.

by ti-amie

Monica Seles started the revolution in women's tennis. Her take no prisoners balls to the wall approach was the antithesis of the Suzanne Lenglen genteel form of tennis. Without her Serena and Venus would not have been possible.

I think we've gone backwards but that's a discussion for another day.

by ti-amie

For us Hsieh Su-wei fans.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:10 am

For us Hsieh Su-wei fans.

She's so funny. She said she asked several people to partner up (last year, I think) and they said no. Surely for scheduling conflicts.

by ashkor87 Serves them right, the idiots! Imagine turning down Hsieh...

by skatingfan Delbonis says adios after 'enriching' 16-year career
33-year-old won two tour-level titles
January 30, 2024

Federico Delbonis brought an end to his playing days on Monday, after an almost 17-year career with a racquet in hand.

The 33-year-old Argentine, who peaked at No. 33 in the Pepperstone ATP Rankings in 2016 and has not competed since October 2023, announced on social media that he is hanging up his racquet indefinitely: “Today is the end of one of the most enriching journeys of my life, but there will be more paths to travel... Thank you! I was very happy doing what I like to do,” he said.

“It is the end of a stage of my life in which I learned to be a sportsman and a person. I had some unforgettable and unbeatable moments on and off the tennis court, but it’s time to listen to my body, which is asking for a break,” explained the Argentine, who claimed tour-level titles in Sao Paulo (2014) and Marrakech (2016).

“I have to thank, without a doubt, all the people who supported me and believed in me through all these years. Starting with you Vir, my daily support, and my children, my family, who were the ones who started this journey. My team, my friends, and above all, you, those that cheered me on and gave me strength from the stands or from your homes,” declared Delbonis.

“There were many experiences and emotions over all these years,” recalled the Argentine, who was also a Davis Cup champion in 2016, when he claimed the last point of the series against Croatia.

In addition, during his time on Tour he picked up some heavyweight scalps such as those of Roger Federer, Stan Wawrinka, Andy Murray, Nikolai Davydenko, and Grigor Dimitrov. In two weeks, Delbonis will compete one more time, in doubles, in Buenos Aires.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/delboni ... ruary-2024

by ti-amie

by Suliso Now it's almost too late to accumulate more of those wins.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 I have always been puzzled how people (and betting markets,) seem so comfortable betting on how long a match will go, how many sets, games, and even whether a given player will win in 3 sets or 4 or 5..,I have seen very close 3 set matches and 5 set matches that aren't particularly close..and the court surface matters too..I have seen Federer beating Muller 7-5,7-6,7-5 or some such and it really wasn't close at all, it is just grass that makes it seem so because it is so difficult to break serve..and bagel sets on clay where every point is fiercely contested- again, it is just clay..because serve doesn't matter much, one player can win practically every point by playing just a bit better than the opponent...

by Owendonovan If Thiem keeps his current form, he won't ever have to worry about having to possibly donate a few K's to the "unprofessional" lower ranked players if the tour gets shut down by another pandemic.

by ti-amie

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 1:36 am If Thiem keeps his current form, he won't ever have to worry about having to possibly donate a few K's to the "unprofessional" lower ranked players if the tour gets shut down by another pandemic.

Tennis fans have very, very long memories. Players forget that at their peril.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 8:33 pm Now it's almost too late to accumulate more of those wins.

Plus, only three positive records against these guys (Thiem and Zverev vs Roger, Coric 3-2 over Nadal).
This group took a lot of punishment.

by ponchi101 The limitations of wood...
Still, an impressive display.

by Fastbackss

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 12:09 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 8:33 pm Now it's almost too late to accumulate more of those wins.
Plus, only three positive records against these guys (Thiem and Zverev vs Roger, Coric 3-2 over Nadal).
This group took a lot of punishment.

Kyrgios over Djokovic too

FAA and Rublev over Federer but only one match

by ponchi101 You are right. And I (we) missed Vesely over Novak.

by Fastbackss

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 2:26 am I have always been puzzled how people (and betting markets,) seem so comfortable betting on how long a match will go, how many sets, games, and even whether a given player will win in 3 sets or 4 or 5..,I have seen very close 3 set matches and 5 set matches that aren't particularly close..and the court surface matters too..I have seen Federer beating Muller 7-5,7-6,7-5 or some such and it really wasn't close at all, it is just grass that makes it seem so because it is so difficult to break serve..and bagel sets on clay where every point is fiercely contested- again, it is just clay..because serve doesn't matter much, one player can win practically every point by playing just a bit better than the opponent...

It's actually one of the places (in my opinion) that the bettor can find extra value. It was reasonably profitable for me during the AO.

Part of this is because there are separate wagers. You can wager who is going to win a particular set, who is going to win in a certain number of sets, or simply how many sets the match is going to go. I like the latter myself, although the odds can be a bit flattened relative to the others.

Real examples from the tournament where I was successful
Men's reasonably high seed typically will usually be expected to win in straights. Think alcaraz, Djokovic. (I didn't have the fortitude to pick early in the tourney for Novak - thought about it but didn't). Can usually get 4 to 1 that they won't win in straights.
On the other hand was Medvedev. I know he tends to play longer matches. Playing hurkacz - it was -260 for it to go four or more. I typically don't choose if it's negative odds but thought this was a no brainer that Hubie would win at least one set.

Another example from AO - Kostyuk vs Mertens - was +112 that it would go the distance. So it was barely better than even, still positive. I had the same mentality here - likely going to be close and there's value in that

Notice in either of the above I didn't choose who was going to win. Those odds tend to be more proven out, less subject to chance - almost like the bookmakers data is and can be more accurate when setting it (also less subject to chance )

by ashkor87 Thanks for the explanation but I must say I would never dare to bet on how many sets...fortunately, betting on sports is illegal here

by meganfernandez Monfils was DQ'd from UTS in Olso this weekend for accidentally injuring a supervisor in the locker room. Said there was no malice and they parted on friendly terms, but they had to DQ him. I guess it's good to [play by the rules and err on the side of consistency with behavior that results in an injury, but this seems like overkill unless the supervisor was upset. Accidents happen. What about common sense?

https://x.com/uts_tour_/status/1756290344902066566?s=20

And is UTS really trying to become a thing? I wonder how much Mouratoglou and his investors are losing on it.

by ponchi101 And in the locker room?
One hell of a way to promote a league.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:And in the locker room?
One hell of a way to promote a league.

Locker room or players lounge, something like that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ti-amie “I never really got into it” – Raducanu’s admission following bagel loss to Kalinina
Emma Raducanu struggled with the conditions in Doha

Carrie Dunn
February 12, 2024

Emma Raducanu admitted she struggled to get to grips with the conditions as she lost 6-0, 7-6 (6) to Anhelina Kalinina in Doha – only the second time in her professional career she has been on the receiving end of a bagel.

“To be honest, I felt like I never really got into it,” she said in her post-match interview. “I think it was a combination of things. It’s the first day match I’ve played in a year. That’s different. Honestly, I need to practise training outside a bit more because it’s very different. Also with the lights, conditions and shadows, it’s really hard to kind of see the ball towards the end.”

The former US Open champion is still on the comeback trail following a lengthy absence due to surgery on her wrists and left ankle.

However, some observers have called into question her preparation for the WTA 1000 event, suggesting that she would have been better served arriving in Doha earlier and having more time to adjust to the conditions. Instead, she opted to spend time in Dubai, and her Instagram posts show her at the opening of a luxury hotel, One&Only One Za’abeel.

(See Below)

Raducanu has yet to confirm her schedule for the upcoming weeks.

“I think I’m just going to go home and practise, and we’ll see where I go from there,” Raducanu said in quotes reported by The Times. “It’s hard for me to get used to the tour schedule. It’s just tournament back, tournament straight away, so I think that I need to schedule my tournaments a bit better, as well as just trying to get some more matches under my belt.”

https://www.tennismajors.com/wta-tour-n ... 43129.html

A fan reaction:

Spinopsys
@spinopsys@aus.social

One of the first things I would do with Emma Radacanu is ditch every single promotional appearance not tied to a specific tournament for the rest of the year and just do #Tennis. But she is obviously not only uncoachable but unmanageable.

Her comments in this piece are a disservice to fans who expect athletes to be prepared to play, even marginally so. How can you not be "into it" for a WTA1000 when the season has only just started and the grind has hardly begun? It's the tournament scheduling that's the problem and not her many promotional appearances all over the world?

The weekly tournament grind is the foundation of the sport but she seems to prefer the weekly promotional grift.

by Owendonovan Maybe Emma and Holger can coach each other?

by ti-amie

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:42 am Maybe Emma and Holger can coach each other?

Holger: Let's practice serves today!

Emma: YAWN. That event last night wore me out. I'm not into serving today.

Holger: Volleys then?

Emma: Did you see what I wore on the red carpet? Didn't I look cute?

Holger: Come on be serious. We agreed to do this.

Emma: I'm bored. Oh crap I chipped my manicure. (Calls and demands an immediate appointment with manicurist)

Holger: MOM!

by Owendonovan

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:43 am
Owendonovan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:42 am Maybe Emma and Holger can coach each other?
Holger: Let's practice serves today!

Emma: YAWN. That event last night wore me out. I'm not into serving today.

Holger: Volleys then?

Emma: Did you see what I wore on the red carpet? Didn't I look cute?

Holger: Come on be serious. We agreed to do this.

Emma: I'm bored. Oh crap I chipped my manicure. (Calls and demands an immediate appointment with manicurist)

Holger: MOM!

by ponchi101 C'mon, she was in Dubai. Same climate, same time zone, 1 hour flight in a private luxury jet, obviously 7 star hotel, pampered from dawn till way past dusk. That should have been no issue.

by ti-amie An interesting perspective

by ponchi101 But nothing that is a secret.
Rafa tries to put so much spin on the ball that no two shots are the same. Even when they land short, they will be all over the place.
An unexpected result of the weird finish.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 He never got credit for that. Or not enough.

by ashkor87 By winning the ABN Amro, Sinner did something nobody has done in 15 years, apparently ..follow up a major title by winning the next tournament he played ..am actually a bit surprised at this statistic....

by ashkor87 Actually first since 2001..hewitt
Atleast, among men. Wouldn't know if a woman has done it, wouldn't be surprised either..

by ponchi101 Odd stat, but very interesting. Maybe it shows how different the slams are from the regular tour.

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 4:04 am By winning the ABN Amro, Sinner did something nobody has done in 15 years, apparently ..follow up a major title by winning the next tournament he played ..am actually a bit surprised at this statistic....

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 4:07 am Actually first since 2001..hewitt
Atleast, among men. Wouldn't know if a woman has done it, wouldn't be surprised either..

Maybe their first major title? If so, significantly waters down the achievement.

2015, Novak won the US Open and then ran the table- Bejiing, Shanghai, Paris, ATP Finals. in 2011, he won the Aussie and then Dubai (and IW, Miami, Belgrade, Madrid and Rome). His first loss that year was the semis of RG. I figured with his and Roger's winning streaks, one of them had done it.

Beyond 15 years, Roger and Rafa both won a Slam and then the next tournament they played. Roger multiple times.

by ashkor87 yes, I think their first major title..

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 2:00 pm yes, I think their first major title..

That pool in the last 15 years (since 2009) is Delpo, Murray, Cilic, Wawrinka, Thiem, Medvedev, Alcaraz, and Sinner, right? Am I missing anyone?

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 12:42 pm Odd stat, but very interesting. Maybe it shows how different the slams are from the regular tour.

B5 vs B3... different motivation... often changing surfaces

by Suliso

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 2:02 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 2:00 pm yes, I think their first major title..
That pool in the last 15 years (since 2009) is Delpo, Murray, Cilic, Wawrinka, Thiem, Medvedev, Alcaraz, and Sinner, right? Am I missing anyone?

No, but the point they're making is that the big 3 themselves didn't accomplish it either. Not that it matters much, just a fun statistical fact.

by ti-amie Not just a player & girlfriend, Andrianjafitrimo coaches boyfriend Humbert to Marseille title
WTA player helped Humbert win his fifth tour-level title earlier this month in Marseille
February 20, 2024

Ugo Humbert and Tessah Andrianjafitrimo celebrate winning the title in Marseille.
By Sam Jacot

Watch out Jeremy Chardy, Tessah Andrianjafitrimo is about!

The 25-year-old Frenchwoman Tessah competes on the WTA Tour. She has reached a career-high No. 139 in the WTA Rankings and won six ITF singles titles. She is also Ugo Humbert's girlfriend, and has been travelling on the ATP Tour with the World No. 18 during the start of the season while she continues to recover from injury.

With Humbert's full-time coach Chardy unable to attend as his charge prepared for the Open 13 Provence in Marseille earlier this month, Tessah swapped the court for the stands. She doubled up as her boyfriend’s coach in southern France, where the Frenchman went on to win the title by defeating Grigor Dimitrov in the final.

“She's a player and she's injured now. But Jeremy was not in Marseille, so I said to her, ‘OK, this week you are my coach’,” Humbert told ATPTour.com, cracking a smile. “She gave me a lot of confidence because when I arrived, I was not really confident after a bad week of practice. But during the matches, she was so focused on what I had to do. She's so positive on the court and I felt she made me really relaxed.”

Tessah has competed in the main draw at Roland Garros three times, whille she reached her career-high No. 139 in 2022. However, she has been sidelined by injury since the end of last season and is expected to return to fitness in March.

So how did the 25-year-old find the switch from playing to coaching?

"It was tough,” Tessah said. “It was different for sure. It was really different from playing because you are on the other side of the court and you have to stay really focused and really calm. I know how it is when you are on the court and looking at your coach and you just want to see how calm he is. I was really stressed and tight in my mind but I could not show him, so I had to stay really calm, even if I was tight.

“It took me so much energy to stay calm. And when you are on the court and stressed you can move and hit harder and use energy, but when you are coaching, you just sit on the court and watch. You can't move or say anything, so it was really stressful and hard. But I loved it. Of course, I loved it because we won but also because you can see the game differently. You can feel the energy much better and how the opponent feels and how your player feels. For me as a player it was really good.”

It is not the first time Humbert has tasted success with Tessah in his corner. In 2020, the lefty won an ATP Challenger Tour title with his girlfriend in tow. Humbert was thankful for the support and guidance he received from the Frenchwoman and is pleased to have extended their strong record together.

“I won my first Challenger with her in 2020 and after that, we broke up,” Humbert said. “Now we are back together and I wanted to win a title, so I said to her, ‘OK, come back with me’ and it worked!

“It's easy because she knows how to be during the match and before the match. She knows my routines since last year and we did it together and she understands it all completely, so it was easy. It was perfect.”

Having not been able to play recently, Tessah enjoyed the competitive buzz she gained from the coaching experience, adding: “I had so much fun before the matches. To get the player more focused, more strong and ready to go to fight. The mindset. I loved it. I love it when I play. I have not played for three months. I love the competition, so it was really, really good.”

Humbert’s triumph in Marseille was his fifth tour-level trophy. The 25-year-old played a near-perfect week at the indoor-hard event, dropping just one set. However, his preparations for the tournament were far from perfect.

“It is funny because the week before I went to London with my coach Jeremy, I did the worst training week in the past year," Humbert said. "Mentally I was super negative. Bad mindset during the practice because I think I was a little bit tired emotionally, because last year, at the end of the season it was not easy. I had played a lot of matches and I had only one week of rest, so after the Australian Open, I was completely dead.

“I did a really, really bad practice week but after that, I won the tournament. I tried to say to myself, ‘OK, it's like this, you have to accept you aren’t at the best’ and day by day, it was a little bit better and better. In the first match against [Hugo] Gaston, it was really, really hard. I was a break down in the third set at 1-3 and I won 6-3. Mentally after I was super strong and the level was so good. I was really, really proud. Winning in France is special because you have the crowd with you. It was emotional.”

With his victory, Humbert improved his standout record in tour-level finals to 5-0, having also triumphed in Metz at the end of last season. He is just the eighth player in the Open Era to win his first five tour-level finals.

“I always play my best level in the finals,” Humbert said. “I don't know why. When I played in the two first finals on the ATP Challenger Tour, I lost both. And after that, I told myself, ‘OK, in finals you don’t have to play your best, you just have to win it. There is no other option, you have to win the match’. I'm more and more focused on what I have to do, I am really in the present. On all five finals, I played a really good level.”

Humbert has now captured three of his five crowns indoors, having won eight of his past nine matches indoors. But why is the Frenchman so effective in those conditions? He thanks the Metz weather.

“I'm good indoors because I am from Metz and it's always raining there! It meant I started playing tennis on the indoor court, on the carpet, when young, so that's why I think I play well on the indoor courts,” Humbert said. “I love it because I have an aggressive game. A lefty serve, so it's not easy for the opponent. It works well.”

Humbert’s title in Marseille also lifted him back into the Top 20 of the Pepperstone ATP Rankings and to a career-high No. 18. He is once again the French No. 1, ahead of World No. 20 Adrian Mannarino.

Humbert is one of nine Frenchmen inside the Top 100, with #NextGenATP stars Arthur Fils and Luca Van Assche exciting prospects. The 21-year-old Arthur Cazaux is No. 83 and performed impressively at the Australian Open, beating Top 10 star Holger Rune en route to the fourth round.

Humbert enjoys his rivalry with Mannarino and is excited by the younger generation emerging.

“I like to have this goal to be No. 1 in France," Humbert said. "It's good because it's nice to have competition between the players. Adrian and I are pushing each other. It is like a race.

“When I was young, I was the only one in the new generation in France and I felt like we were missing some players to push me. So now it's really good to have Arthur [Fils], [Arthur [Cazaux] and Luca [Van Assche]. I was a little bit alone. I will see if I can be Top 10 soon, but it's really exciting because now I'm at my best ranking of 18. Only eight spots from the Top 10, so it's really exciting.”

Humbert will aim to continue his charge towards the Top 10 this week at the Qatar ExxonMobil Open, where he is the third seed. The 25-year-old will begin against Pavel Kotov.

Will Tessah be back in the coaching seat again in Doha after Marseille’s success?

“She's in Doha but as my girlfriend,” Humbert said “She will start to play again in March. Jeremy was my coach again in Rotterdam, so she was just my girlfriend during Rotterdam and here in Doha as well.”

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/humbert ... 24-tuesday

by ti-amie

NotoriousZog

For sure. There's at least.. 12 - 14 quick steps to line up for that shot? Moving backwards at an awkward angle. And that inside out forehand to cap it off. Just abnormal stuff.

Strange_Armadillo_63

Peak Rafa athleticism was out of this world.

I remember a quote from Federer saying nobody shrinks the court the way Nadal does.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Would love it, for sure, but.
Bogota could not even run a 250; it was financially unviable.
Forget about Lima, La Paz (together with the altitude), Quito or any Central American capital other than Mexico DF. Caracas? getoutahere.
So, the cities that can hold tournaments are actually doing so. Rio, Sao Paulo, Baires, Santiago and the smaller Mendoza/Cordoba tourneys. But they can't come up with the cash for a Masters Series. As good intentioned as Andy may be, I don't see any European or American traveling to S. America to play in a MS1000 with $1MM total price money.

by Suliso Indeed, it's a matter of money not fan support. If there would be money we'd have SA swing instead of Middle East one.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Hurray for Ben.
I am not saying that hitting a baseball is easy. But it will be thrown intentionally within a certain frame. The server in tennis is serving intentionally for you NOT to be able to hit it.
Of course, I am not partial at all to these statements. Not one bit!

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 6:51 pm

They should pay him a couple grand for that bad bounce.

by ponchi101 Welcome to South American clay!

Nah. Not even the club I play in has those. That has to be brought to the attention of the ATP.
See, Andy? That is why we can't have a Master Series in S. America.

by ashkor87 My court is like this too! We just laugh it off and proceed. But certainly not worthy of an ATP event !

by ashkor87 Saw a cute interview with Medvedev where he says- everyone saw Alcaraz drop-shotting me to death at IW, then tried to do the same to me at Miami..so I won the tournament .
Underestimated his speed and court-sense, I expect...and the fact that Alcaraz' drop shot is better than most people's..

by ashkor87 https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/ho ... d-backhand

Would you agree? I can't see how Federer can be ranked ahead of Henin ..even Wawrinka...?

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 1:34 pm https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/ho ... d-backhand

Would you agree? I can't see how Federer can be ranked ahead of Henin ..even Wawrinka...?

Ah, rankings... publications love them because they get people talking. I wish they wouldn't have ranked him #1, so as to generate some controversy and show some guts. Rankings like this are so subjective anyway, and there's a good case for someone else as #1. I would have argued for that as an editor. My guess is they strongly considered it, thought it through on its merits, and honestly thought he deserved it.

(EDIT: I just ran across this explanation from the author in a different article about the list: Steffi Graf, Martina Navratilova and John McEnroe, as well as fellow Hall of Famers like Pete Sampras and Ivan Lendl, had great one-handers. You don’t win seven or more majors, as they all did, without one. But none of them made my Top 20 because I thought of them as having even better weapons with other strokes. Serve and forehand for Graf and Lendl; serve and volley for Navratilova and McEnroe; serve, forehand and volley for Sampras.

Of course, you could say the same thing about Federer and Laver, both of whom are in my Top 10. But along with his slice, Federer had a topspin drive, and a gracefully explosive one at that; I gave points for style in this list.] https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/wh ... ands-of-th

Whose would you have ranked #1?

I think Barty is a bit of a cheat. She only sliced. A lot of players use the slice - Ons does. They both use a two-hander to return and finish a point. I think she even used the two-hander to rally sometimes. So she wasn't a pure one-handed-backhand player. But I guess she preferred it and used the slice to great effect.

I'm just amazed that they did full writeups on 20 one-handed backhands! They're quite repetitive. That's "content" for you these days.

The writer also said this: "It was hard to leave off the legends mentioned above, and I wouldn’t argue with anyone who wanted to include them—especially McEnroe and Navratilova. But I also liked having a chance to write about players whose games we don’t hear as much about now, like Gaston Gaudio, Nicolas Almagro and Evonne Goolagong, as well as those, like Carla Suarez Navarro and Richard Gasquet, who were and are defined by their stunning one-handers. Their backhands were standout parts of their games, and added a distinctive aesthetic flavor to the sport that no one can duplicate."

As en editor, I would have argued that his desire to write about these players - ones who they struggle to find ways to cover - shouldn't have been a factor in making the list. That has nothing to do with the merits of the list. But it has a lot to do with making a publication. I would have suggested an honorable mention or something to work in lesser-covered players

by ashkor87 Henin for sure

by ponchi101 Barty did not have a 1H BH. She used two hands to rally, and only hit slice with her BH. Take that out.
Lendl not there? Written by somebody that is too young and did not see him play.
Edberg outside of the top 5? Yeah, right.
Carla Suarez Navarro. Ah, sorry, wrong Spaniard. It started also with a C and I will give you a hint: it rhymes with cheetah.

Why Roger: because what he had that was really second to none was that stretched, defensive BH slice. You could pull him really, really wide and he could still slice it back, all the way to the opposite cross court corner, and totally neutralize whatever shot you had hit.
Unless you were Rafa.

by ashkor87 Actually, Ramanathan Krishnan had one of the most beautiful backhands ever. Sweetly timed..but of course, few people have heard of him.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:01 pm Barty did not have a 1H BH. She used two hands to rally, and only hit slice with her BH. Take that out.
Lendl not there? Written by somebody that is too young and did not see him play.
Edberg outside of the top 5? Yeah, right.
Carla Suarez Navarro. Ah, sorry, wrong Spaniard. It started also with a C and I will give you a hint: it rhymes with cheetah.

Why Roger: because what he had that was really second to none was that stretched, defensive BH slice. You could pull him really, really wide and he could still slice it back, all the way to the opposite cross court corner, and totally neutralize whatever shot you had hit.
Unless you were Rafa.

The writer addressed Lendl, Barty and Conchita in a separate post. Kind of interesting. https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/wh ... ands-of-th

The argument he made for Barty is that her results came after she started using the slice as her preferred backhand, and it became her signature shot. He credits her success to her switching her preference to the one-hander. And also it was outstanding.

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:05 pm Actually, Ramanathan Krishnan had one of the most beautiful backhands ever. Sweetly timed..but of course, few people have heard of him.

Was he pro?

by ashkor87 In those days few people were..he reached the semis of Wimbledon..

by Fastbackss

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:34 pm
One of the first things I would do with Emma Radacanu is ditch every single promotional appearance not tied to a specific tournament for the rest of the year and just do #Tennis. But she is obviously not only uncoachable but unmanageable.

Her comments in this piece are a disservice to fans who expect athletes to be prepared to play, even marginally so. How can you not be "into it" for a WTA1000 when the season has only just started and the grind has hardly begun? It's the tournament scheduling that's the problem and not her many promotional appearances all over the world?

The weekly tournament grind is the foundation of the sport but she seems to prefer the weekly promotional grift.

Bringing this back up.
Roddick interviews her agent this week, who also manages Madison and Ajla, while previously managing Sharapova and Li Na. Was pretty enlightening.

Relevant to this was two things:
Why was different when Emma won versus Maria...

And how Maria scheduled her promotional activities. (Concisely - it was limited to 16 days per year )

this

by ti-amie

From Russian speakers:

Mainly-Driving862
·
From what I can hear, he said: "Ты дебил, как нахер, как??? how? ...how?", which translates to "you - moron, how the (expletive), how??? how? ...how?". the part "ты - дебил (you moron)" couuuuuld be misheard. Maybe he is saying something that sounds like it in Elnglish. But "как нахер" - how the (expletive) is clearly audible.

level 3
uniteseparately
·

Simping for Collins
öbviously wrong for insulting the judge, but translating "нахер" as "(expletive)" is a stretch in my opinion

level 3
mach0
·

\o/
"ты - дебил (you moron)"

I heard it loud and clear.

qlkvg
·
It was a bit unclear, but he definitely said "дебил" (equivalent of "moron" or "idiot"), but maybe the full slur was "ебаный дебил", which is "(expletive) moron"

by ti-amie Per Kasatkina they never reviewed the call...

by ti-amie Arthur Fils had a meltdown in Santiago a few minutes ago and now this.

by ponchi101 I don't mind that much if they use profanity. If they say something offensive that is general, get the warning.
If they address somebody and use it directly at a lines person or chair umpire, immediate default. Just because they know that person can't even reply to them, and that is the top of cowardice.

BTW. I remember one time Johnny Mac insulted a lines person (of the many times). Problem was, the lines person was Johnny Sample, former NFL linebacker. Sample just got up from his chair, crossed his hands in front of him, and kept a poker face straight at Mac. Mac made a bee line to the service line and said nothing more.

by ashkor87 Just to test my theory that speed of court does matter, at the margin, here are some predictions, based entirely on considerations of court speed. IW and Miami are a good test-bed because they are extremes - on the slow side, we will not see such slow courts until the clay season.

1. Pegula will NOT do well at IW, though she will do better at Miami where the court is slightly faster
Same goes for Alexandrova and Vekic, and Coco
2. Rybakina, Sabalenka, Anisimova, Pavlyuchenkova, Samsonova, Kostyuk will do well at both IW and Miami, Pliskova too maybe though I gave up on trying to understand Pliskova long ago!
3. Medvedev and Sinner will not do well , at IW and Miami- Zverev, Rublev, Alcaraz will.

Djokovic and Swiatek are simply too great to be bothered by trivial things like court speeds, so no prediction on them.. they will do whatever they do. Osaka, if she is back, will do well at IW and Miami.

Let us see how it pans out!

by ashkor87 also,not about any specific player but on a slow court, like IW, we should see a lot of bagels and also wild swings like 6-1,1-6,6-1..
on a slow court, it is more difficult to hold serve so the player who is playing even 5% better, can win every game...and that can switch over the course of the match..! On a faster court, the server will hold a lot, so one break of serve is enough to win the set, so scores like 6-4, 7-5 are more common than 6-1, 6-0 etc.

by ashkor87 of course, I need to define 'do well' - which would be a fair question - maybe we can use the players' rankings as benchmark. or, of course, we can look at specific matches, but we have to wait for the draw for that. I dont believe much in rankings but most people do, so it might work.

by Suliso Perhaps we can agree on my definitions of "doing well" (IW only) for players you listed.

Sinner, Alcaraz and Medvedev SF+
Zverev, Rublev QF+

Rybakina, Gauff and Sabalenka SF+
Pegula QF+
Samsonova, Anisimova, Pavlyuchenkova and Kostyuk R16+, but very draw dependent.

I'm not even sure Djokovic will play. For Swiatek also anything less than SF's can't be called good.

by Owendonovan SO the dude who has been fined and is facing a trial for abusing women gets a warning and the guy most everyone agrees is a good guy gets dq.'d for basically the same level of infraction?

by ponchi101 The inconsistency is bothersome. These sort of penalties are not trivial (Rublev's will cost him points and money) and there has to be some sense of consistency.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

Video of the incident

by ponchi101 Well, they apologized. Fine them, and let's hope they learn.

by ashkor87

Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:28 am Perhaps we can agree on my definitions of "doing well" (IW only) for players you listed.

Sinner, Alcaraz and Medvedev SF+
Zverev, Rublev QF+

Rybakina, Gauff and Sabalenka SF+
Pegula QF+
Samsonova, Anisimova, Pavlyuchenkova and Kostyuk R16+, but very draw dependent.

I'm not even sure Djokovic will play. For Swiatek also anything less than SF's can't be called good.

Yes...of course, some of these depend on the draw too, like Coco going to the finals of RG. But we can treat the draw as a random variable, neutral. Certainly, pegula and gauff can get to the quarters if they get a good draw. But we can't set up a perfect experiment, can we?!

by ashkor87 Ostapenko will do well too, on the slow courts of IW

by ponchi101 Not a perfect experiment, but in order to make it more reliable, one tournament is not enough. We would need at least 10-15 predictions per player.
Too much effort because, as you say, for one tournament anything can happen. For example, a Cirstea doing a crazy one and beating a top player, only to lose to the 150 ranked player in the next round.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 Who would you consider the best volleyer today? Small sample, but it is still a beautiful and effective stroke..
I would say Alcaraz and Leylah...

by ti-amie

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:35 am Who would you consider the best volleyer today? Small sample, but it is still a beautiful and effective stroke..
I would say Alcaraz and Leylah...

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 12:30 pm Not a perfect experiment, but in order to make it more reliable, one tournament is not enough. We would need at least 10-15 predictions per player.
Too much effort because, as you say, for one tournament anything can happen. For example, a Cirstea doing a crazy one and beating a top player, only to lose to the 150 ranked player in the next round.

true..
let us agree in advance what court is slow and what is fast? I propose:
Slow: IW and Miami
the entire clay season except Madrid (altitude makes it more like a fast court)
Washington DC

Fast:
Australian, Shanghai,Paris (indoor), Turin, Dubai
all the rest are in-between (and geting slower!)

by ashkor87 We could also treat clay separately..it has its own unique features...

by ashkor87 https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/wh ... -slam-hump

once I got over my initial reaction -'who cares?' and 'is it written in the sky that Americans have to win majors?' - I think the ones with nonzero chance of making it are Shelton and Michelsen.. the others simply arent talented enough...!

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:24 pm https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/wh ... -slam-hump

once I got over my initial reaction -'who cares?' and 'is it written in the sky that Americans have to win majors?' - I think the ones with nonzero chance of making it are Shelton and Michelsen.. the others simply arent talented enough...!

I loved this story. Thanks for sharing. I always thought Korda had the best chance, but I'm starting to lose faith. Shelton is next. Paul ought to be but yeah, maybe lacking a weapon. I don't think Fritz will do it. I don't know enough about Michelsen, but right now he's a lot of hype. Too soon to tell.

Not written in the sky, but it's a fair question for a country that produces so many contenders - and has produced so many Slam champs. What other country has as many contenders right now? Russia, I guess. This is partly due to the population size.

They could have done this story with a different basket of players - like the Russians or the players who have reached a semi or final, but not won - but Americans is a crisp angle with a lot to say about it. I'd like to see them repeat the angle with Russians, women, and some other baskets/categories of players.

by Suliso Someone should write about Czechs. They really overperform given the modest population (10.5 million) and wealth of the country. Again they have some of the top teenage players on both tours.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:57 pm Someone should write about Czechs. They really overperform given the modest population (10.5 million) and wealth of the country. Again they have some of the top teenage players on both tours.

I actually said Czechs originally and deleted it because I wasn't sure they have a lot of top male contenders right now. Lehecka and Machac? More on the women's size for sure. Agree with your wider point. And they dominated Fed Cup for a long time.

by Suliso

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:03 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:57 pm Someone should write about Czechs. They really overperform given the modest population (10.5 million) and wealth of the country. Again they have some of the top teenage players on both tours.
I actually said Czechs originally and deleted it because I wasn't sure they have a lot of top male contenders right now. Lehecka and Machac? More on the women's size for sure. Agree with your wider point. And they dominated Fed Cup for a long time.

Maybe Lehecka (22, #23) and Machac (23, #62) as well (not really seen them play much), but I'd be particularly positive about Jakub Mensik. Only 18 years old and already with ATP level final and in the top 100.

Traditionally they have indeed been stronger on the women's side. Much less competition there so less luck needed.

by Suliso There are also some outliers on the other end. Countries which are neither too poor nor too small, but have produced no one at all. In Europe Ireland and Portugal are in this category.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 still cant download the men's draw, so will wait for that.
as for the women,
one of the following will win the whole thing: Rybakina, Sabalenka, Swiatek.
these players will NOT win the whole thing: Coco, Pegula
Kostyuk and Pavlyuchenkova will 'do well' as defined above.
Osaka will not survive Samsonova
Noskova will not be able to beat Swiatek again - the court is much slower than the AO
Pliskova will beat Pegula in the second round (though I swore never to bet on or against Pliskova!)
Yastremska will beat Raducanu

these are predictions entirely based on court speed and the draw. Some of them may be 'far out' but we shall see.

by ashkor87 The men:
one of the following will win the tournament: Alcaraz, Djokovic, Zverev
Sinner, Medvedev will NOT
Michelsen will beat Tommy Paul in the second round assuming he survives the first round, which he may not
Taylor Fritz will 'do well'
all these, again, based on court speed and the IW draw

by ashkor87 DeMinaur is known for his footspeed, wont be of much value here.. wont go far, I feel, entirely because of the slow court
Keys vs Alexandrova in round 3 - Keys is ranked lower but should win, she is more powerful.. on a faster cout, I would expect Alexandrova to prevail..

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 Giorgi beating Boulter is also to be expected on a slow court

by ti-amie Rwanda Challenger reflects hope & healing of a nation
Former World No. 3 Yannick Noah is the tournament ambassador
March 07, 2024

Rwanda is the seventh African country to host an ATP Challenger Tour event.
By Grant Thompson

Next month will mark 30 years since the beginning of the Rwanda genocide, an atrocity that claimed an estimated 500,000 to 800,000 lives, mainly members of the minority Tutsi ethnic group.

As the central African country continues to recover and rebuild, tennis is playing a small but important part of the healing process. Case in point is the ATP Challenger Tour, which this week is holding the second of back-to-back Challenger 50 events in the capital city Kigali.

Rwanda is just the seventh African country to host an ATP Challenger Tour event and tournament director Arzel Mevelle envisions this as a positive stride towards bringing more high-level events to the Central African region.

“Rwanda took a risk to organise the first big tournament in this part of the world,” Mevellec told ATPTour.com. “When you talk about North Africa, it’s something different. In Morocco and Tunisia, they’ve had tournaments for a long time but in this part of Africa, it’s brand new.

“It’s a very important symbol. Rwanda is a small country but with big events now. Soccer, NBA Academy Africa, and now Rwanda is on the world map of tennis and I think that’s the beginning of something huge. Rwanda can be proud about that.”

Spectators fill the stands at the Kicukiro Ecology Tennis Club. Credit: Rwanda Tennis Federation

Rwanda, which boasts a population of nearly 14 million people, joins Morocco, South Africa, Nigeria, Egypt, Tunisia and Nigeria as the only African countries to hold an ATP Challenger Tour event.

Held at the Kicukiro Ecology Tennis Club, the tournament is much more than trophies, PIF ATP Rankings points and prize money. The Rwanda Challenger is also a reflection of the nation’s transformative journey from its traumatic past.

Rather than trying to erase this dark chapter from history, the tournament has adopted an alternative approach: promoting education and honouring the fallen through visits to the Kigali Genocide Memorial.

“More than 20 players registered,” Mevellec said. “We have to explain to them that the country is not the same country as 30 years ago. There is still some cliché about Africa in general and some countries. That’s something very important to understand the country, understand the past situation and understand now. When you are there, it’s something special and another atmosphere. You feel the heaviness of it and I think it’s good for them to feel that.”

When the first leg of two weeks was completed Saturday, with World No. 652 Kamil Majchrzak becoming the lowest-ranked Challenger champion since last July, it was a celebration of a successful maiden event.

Among those in attendance for Saturday’s final were Rwanda President Paul Kagame, first lady Jeannette Kagame and 1983 Roland Garros champion Yannick Noah, who serves as the tournament ambassador.

“I honestly didn’t expect to see such a beautiful tournament, a beautiful event,” Noah said. “It stimulates me and gives me a lot of energy to go back to Cameroon and try to do something that looks like this. My son [former NBA star Joakim Noah] came to Rwanda many times promoting basketball and he talked greatly about Rwanda... I'll be back."

Yannick Noah at the Rwanda Challenger trophy ceremony. Credit: Rwanda Tennis Federation

Don Rutagemwa, a Rwanda native and assistant tournament director, hopes these two weeks mark the birth of more ATP Challenger Tour events in the region.

“We can’t come this far to have just one tournament,” said Rutagemwa, who is also the secretary general for the Rwanda Tennis Federation. “The dream is to keep growing the tournament. We joked that in the next five years, maybe we can have a Grand Slam. We need to keep the momentum and make it more attractive for the African players who cannot travel to Europe. We want to attract the global talent but also the local players.”

In addition to world-class professionals in action at the Kicukiro Ecology Tennis Club, the Rwanda Challenger is hosting beginners' clinics for local youth during the tournament.

Aurore Mimosa Munyangaju, Rwanda’s Minister of Sport said: “This ATP Challenger Tour 50 tournament is a milestone event for our country, being the first of this kind in the region. The excitement and energy I have felt throughout the course of the tournament has truly been remarkable.”

Rwanda Challenger 1 champion Kamil Majchrzak said: “This is historical for this country and it’s been amazing. The tournament is organised perfectly. The players were really taken care of and the court quality was also really nice. I think every player feels comfortable here.”

Zimbabwe’s Courtney Lock said: “For the last two-and-a-half years, this is the first Challenger outside of North Africa. It’s a two hour flight for me, probably the closest flight I take all year so I definitely feel as close to home as I can.”

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/kigali- ... 2024-march

by ashkor87

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 2:47 am Pliskova will beat Pegula in the second round (though I swore never to bet on or against Pliskova!)

should have stuck to my oath-- Pliskova will always drive me crazy. Lost to Blinkova.

by Suliso Pliskova getting a bit old in tennis years...

by ponchi101 She is odd. She gathered the second most points of any player for our Around the world contest. So, she could have done better than this.

by Suliso Let's do a thought exercise. Djokovic has declined and AO SF's is his high mark at Slams this year. If that is true do we think there will be another new Slam champion this year? That is someone other than Alcaraz, Sinner and Medvedev.

by ashkor87

Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 1:14 pm Let's do a thought exercise. Djokovic has declined and AO SF's is his high mark at Slams this year. If that is true do we think there will be another new Slam champion this year? That is someone other than Alcaraz, Sinner and Medvedev.

Zverev..could win the French..unless he is in jail, of course!!

by ponchi101 Taking those four guys out leaves Zverev as a possibility, but when you post it that way it is hard to say there will be a new slam champ. All the other top 10 look not ready and the days of a 17 yo Becker, Edberg or Chang breaking through at some particular slam are hard to see.
Then again: if we count Novak out, it does open a lot of room for somebody to cash in.
I say, Zverev is the only one that comes to mind. Other than that, no.
(Rune? If he gets a super favorable draw and gets finally potty trained?)

by Suliso Maybe Tsitsipas can rise up again? Otherwise I agree. Taking out Djokovic of course does open the door a bit, but probably only to handful of people.

RG is the most likely under those circumstances because from the other three Slam winners only Alcaraz favors that surface.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 7:04 pm Taking those four guys out leaves Zverev as a possibility, but when you post it that way it is hard to say there will be a new slam champ. All the other top 10 look not ready and the days of a 17 yo Becker, Edberg or Chang breaking through at some particular slam are hard to see.
Then again: if we count Novak out, it does open a lot of room for somebody to cash in.
I say, Zverev is the only one that comes to mind. Other than that, no.
(Rune? If he gets a super favorable draw and gets finally potty trained?)

Zverec, yes, and Kyrgios at Wimbledon. i could see Ruud winning one without those four guys in the mix. And weirder things have happened than one of the current Top 30 hitting a hot streak and getting a break from the draw (Cilic). i don't think Djokovic has enough to make this a probability.

by Suliso No, no Megan. We're not taking all those four guys out - only Djokovic

If we were to "delete" all four Slam winners of course new ones would have to take their place.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote:No, no Megan. We're not taking all those four guys out - only Djokovic

If we were to "delete" all four Slam winners of course new ones would have to take their place.

Okay, sorry. I means Ruud or Kyrgios could win one if only Djokovic was out of the mix. I think the other three would be prohibitive favorites as a group, having distanced themselves with consistency, but none of them is a lock for the semis like the Big 3 players were. Sinner maybe now. But he hasn’t proven himself a champion for a whole season and across multiple surfaces yet.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 9:35 pm
Suliso wrote:No, no Megan. We're not taking all those four guys out - only Djokovic

If we were to "delete" all four Slam winners of course new ones would have to take their place.
Okay, sorry. I means Ruud or Kyrgios could win one if only Djokovic was out of the mix. I think the other three would be prohibitive favorites as a group, having distanced themselves with consistency, but none of them is a lock for the semis like the Big 3 players were. Sinner maybe now. But he hasn’t proven himself a champion for a whole season and across multiple surfaces yet.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

what is the point of waiting for someone to win multiple majors before calling him/her a champion?! more fun to do it before....!

by nelslus

Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 1:14 pm Let's do a thought exercise. Djokovic has declined and AO SF's is his high mark at Slams this year. If that is true do we think there will be another new Slam champion this year? That is someone other than Alcaraz, Sinner and Medvedev.

....GREAT. Now Novak is certain to win (at least) the next 8 Slam titles. (*AND the gold medal).

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:38 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 9:35 pm
Suliso wrote:No, no Megan. We're not taking all those four guys out - only Djokovic

If we were to "delete" all four Slam winners of course new ones would have to take their place.
Okay, sorry. I means Ruud or Kyrgios could win one if only Djokovic was out of the mix. I think the other three would be prohibitive favorites as a group, having distanced themselves with consistency, but none of them is a lock for the semis like the Big 3 players were. Sinner maybe now. But he hasn’t proven himself a champion for a whole season and across multiple surfaces yet.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
what is the point of waiting for someone to win multiple majors before calling him/her a champion?! more fun to do it before....!

Define champion. By definitions, CHAMPION is: you won some competition. So, Sinner is already a champion. For that process, Adrian Mannarino is already a champion (he has won 6 tournaments).
Now, CHAMPION, with all the euphemism, is something else. So, I say the cutoff is 3 Slams. Just so I can include Murray and Stan.
But if anybody says Aryna Sabalenka is a champion, that is fine with me.

by ashkor87 Blinkova reminds me a bit of Pavlyuchenkova...

by ashkor87 lots of bagels, as predicted, a slow court is a great bagel oven

by JTContinental Steve Johnson retired after his loss at Indian Wells. He finished his career with 4 ATP titles and an Olympic bronze in doubles.

by ponchi101 That is not a bad career. I believe he can be a good coach. He was a made player, so he knows how to work hard.

by mick1303 Saw a discussion on the best active WTA player to never win a slam. But can't find a thread where it was. The names of Muchova and Pegula were brought up. I like watching Muchova play - so smooth. But come on - only one title. In the WTA world comparing slams with other tournaments is MUCH more relevant. They all best of three. Pegula is almost 30, but only won 4 titles. Pliskova had 16 and Svitolina - 17. I think it shall be between those 2. Pliskova reached #1 and was in two slam finals. Svitolina won YEC and has more tier I titles - (4 against 2). So it is close.

by ashkor87

mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 7:42 am Saw a discussion on the best active WTA player to never win a slam. But can't find a thread where it was. The names of Muchova and Pegula were brought up. I like watching Muchova play - so smooth. But come on - only one title. In the WTA world comparing slams with other tournaments is MUCH more relevant. They all best of three. Pegula is almost 30, but only won 4 titles. Pliskova had 16 and Svitolina - 17. I think it shall be between those 2. Pliskova reached #1 and was in two slam finals. Svitolina won YEC and has more tier I titles - (4 against 2). So it is close.

Yes, logically you are right. It is just that most people don't think Svitolina and Pliskova have much future now..their best days are behind them..Muchova, on the other hand, can still win a major...that wasn't the question I know but that is how people think, probably .Pegula is just wishful thinking by Americans

by Suliso I think it's easily Ons Jabeur with 3 GS finals. Albeit her best days are probably behind her too.

by ponchi101

Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 9:51 am I think it's easily Ons Jabeur with 3 GS finals. Albeit her best days are probably behind her too.

Beat me to it. She had those 18 months there in which she was truly elite. Somehow, the level has dropped.

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 3:15 am The men:
one of the following will win the tournament: Alcaraz, Djokovic, Zverev
Sinner, Medvedev will NOT
Michelsen will beat Tommy Paul in the second round assuming he survives the first round, which he may not
Taylor Fritz will 'do well'
all these, again, based on court speed and the IW draw

Time to review your predictions based on court speed.
Of your predicted winners, only Alcaraz remains. Granted, Zverev lost to him, but you (and everybody) were off mark regarding Novak.
Sinner and Medvedev are in the semis. Court speed has mattered little to them.
Michelsen did not beat Paul.
Fritz did well. Not great, but well.

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 2:47 am still cant download the men's draw, so will wait for that.
as for the women,
one of the following will win the whole thing: Rybakina, Sabalenka, Swiatek.
these players will NOT win the whole thing: Coco, Pegula
Kostyuk and Pavlyuchenkova will 'do well' as defined above.
Osaka will not survive Samsonova
Noskova will not be able to beat Swiatek again - the court is much slower than the AO
Pliskova will beat Pegula in the second round (though I swore never to bet on or against Pliskova!)
Yastremska will beat Raducanu

these are predictions entirely based on court speed and the draw. Some of them may be 'far out' but we shall see.

Review:
Well, Swiatek has a clear path, but Elena withdrew (data inconclusive) and Aryna lost to Navarro. But predicting these three was a bit of going with the rankings.
Coco still has a chance to win it.
Kostyuk and PAVS did well, indeed.
Osaka survived Samsonova.
The Noskova prediction was a gimme.
Plsikova did not make the 2nd round, and therefore the prediction was untested.
Yastremska retired Vs Raducanu, but was 0-4 at the moment and not looking good.

I would say... you are around the 50% chance on almost all your predictions, based on court speed.

by ashkor87 Good summary!! But let us revisit when the tournament ends..
I would make similar overall predictions for Miami but the freshness factor may be more decisive...whoever does well at IW will be a tired puppy..

by ashkor87 Just to make my life harder, Medvedev says the main stadium court is much faster than last year, whereas stadium 2 is slower. He is, of course, a self-proclaimed hardcourt expert, and rightly so!

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 3:34 pm Just to make my life harder, Medvedev says the main stadium court is much faster than last year, whereas stadium 2 is slower. He is, of course, a self-proclaimed hardcourt expert, and rightly so!

To make your life even harder still, the balls are extremely slow. They are shredding.

by ponchi101 Which to me, is a much more important element than the court.
As long as the court is even and the bounces are the same all over it, it takes little time for players to adapt. but if the ball is shredding, the same ball you served two games ago is not longer the same. That is a big difference.

Screenshot 2024-03-15 at 3.08.50 PM.png

by skatingfan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:12 pm Sorry to ask, but... What's the deal with this? Is the meaning the obvious one?Screenshot 2024-03-15 at 3.08.50 PM.png

I can't speak to that one - I've never had the urge to give myself a wedgie.

by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:12 pm Sorry to ask, but... What's the deal with this? Is the meaning the obvious one?Screenshot 2024-03-15 at 3.08.50 PM.png
I can't speak to that one - I've never had the urge to give myself a wedgie.

It was or still is a thing with young male athletes. Maybe just tennis players? I don’t know. I can’t even describe it well enough to google it.

by ptmcmahon Am I getting deja vu? I feel like we discussed this before?

by ponchi101

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 3:18 am Am I getting deja vu? I feel like we discussed this before?

We have. But the mystery remains, so the question pops up again. Why do they do that?

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:01 am
ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 3:18 am Am I getting deja vu? I feel like we discussed this before?
We have. But the mystery remains, so the question pops up again. Why do they do that?

because they are immature jocks who need to grow up?

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 1:12 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:01 am
ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 3:18 am Am I getting deja vu? I feel like we discussed this before?
We have. But the mystery remains, so the question pops up again. Why do they do that?
because they are immature jocks who need to grow up?

It's like a living meme, though. There's a message and it might be the obvious one but I want to know. I did bring it up before but couldn't remember if it was answered. It came up again with more evidence.

by ponchi101 You all know how much I dislike sports cliches (and cliches in general). I really hate it when people talk about the "intangibles", and when they use the "easy power" cliche and such.
And I really don't like it when they try to make overly complicated explanations. The one I dislike the most is: "S/he played the important points better".
The reality is that that statement is BS. It is a dumb tautology.
We tend to forget that tennis is the ultimate ZERO SUM game; if you win a point, your opponent lost it. It is not like, for example, basketball, where when you shoot a triple, and you don't make it, nothing happens. You opponent does not get points from your mistakes.
I say this. Due to the structure of the game, and the scoring system, even supremely equal players will have scores that are like, well, tennis scores. Assume two players are exactly balanced. What would that mean?
Well, it would not mean an infinite game, lasting forever. One or the other WILL win the match, because even randomly generated scoring produces tennis like scores. Even randomly generated scores produce streaks.
So I made a simulator. It works like this:
ALL points are randomly generated. No bias, no reasoning; this thing is randomly generated, meaning every player has a 50% chance of winning the POINT. And even doing this, the scores generated are EXACTLY like tennis scores. Again, you don't get the infinite game, nor the infinite set. You get sets that are all over the place: 6-2, 6-1, 7-5, etc. If you play it long enough, you will get the odd sets in which the player that LOST won more points.
You can try it here. The set will be played to completion (meaning, NO TB's; that coding would be too much), and you will see all points being played.
So, no. Novak DID NOT play the important points better than Roger at W 2019, and Hana Mandlikova DID NOT play the important points better than Martina in the 1985 USO final and Tracy Austin certainly DID NOT play the important points better than Martina in the 1981 USO final.
It was just that somebody had to win.
SIMULATOR HERE

by ti-amie What you're saying about the scoring system in tennis and how it's different from other sports is really good. What a change of perspective that gives me. Thanks.

by ponchi101 Think about this.
Take away racquet sports (they all have similar scoring systems in which the scoring is built in structures). The sole other sport in which the losing team can win more points than the winning team is volleyball, which also has a structured scoring.
In baseball, basketball, football (american) and hockey, the reality is that you are playing just ONE MATCH. The scoring of the first quarter gets carried over to the 2nd, and so on. In Tennis, we see it a lot: the score of one set is meaningless to what will happen in the next.
0-6 first set, and the player ends up winning the match.

by ashkor87

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 2:47 am one of the following will win the whole thing: Rybakina, Sabalenka, Swiatek.
these players will NOT win the whole thing: Coco, Pegula
Kostyuk and Pavlyuchenkova will 'do well' as defined above.
Osaka will not survive Samsonova
Noskova will not be able to beat Swiatek again - the court is much slower than the AO
Pliskova will beat Pegula in the second round (though I swore never to bet on or against Pliskova!)
Yastremska will beat Raducanu

these are predictions entirely based on court speed and the draw. Some of them may be 'far out' but we shall see.

now that IW is done, we can eveluate these predictions made by the 'court speed' theory
Swiatek did win
Coco and Pegula did not
Kostyuk and Pvs did well
Osaka did survive Samsonova
Noskova did not beat Swiatek
pliskova and Ystremska pulled out, so not counted.
in pure numbers, that makes it 6 out of 7 - the theory did well!

by ashkor87

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 3:15 am The men:
one of the following will win the tournament: Alcaraz, Djokovic, Zverev
Sinner, Medvedev will NOT
Michelsen will beat Tommy Paul in the second round assuming he survives the first round, which he may not
Taylor Fritz will 'do well'
all these, again, based on court speed and the IW draw

Again, let us see how the theory dd:
Alcaraz did win
Sinner and Medvedev did not
Micehelsen did not beat Paul
Taylor Fritz did well (half point for that)

so overall, 3.5 points out of 5.. not bad!

by ashkor87 the prediction about bagel sets probably did hold up, though the data is hard to get hold of...

by ti-amie I'm really enjoying Ashkor's predictive posts. I don't respond because I suck at it but I read them all. Good work for Indian Wells!

On to Miami.

by ashkor87

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 6:00 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 12:30 pm Not a perfect experiment, but in order to make it more reliable, one tournament is not enough. We would need at least 10-15 predictions per player.
Too much effort because, as you say, for one tournament anything can happen. For example, a Cirstea doing a crazy one and beating a top player, only to lose to the 150 ranked player in the next round.
true..
let us agree in advance what court is slow and what is fast? I propose:
Slow: IW and Miami
the entire clay season except Madrid (altitude makes it more like a fast court)
Washington DC

Fast:
Australian, Shanghai,Paris (indoor), Turin, Dubai
all the rest are in-between (and geting slower!)

just to continue this line of thought, let me also name the players who will do well and not, based on their style of play
On fast courts:
Sinner, Medvedev, De Minaur will do well - women: Pegula, Coco, Vekic, Alexandrova, Sloane
On slow courts;
Zverev, Alcaraz, Rublev will do well,
women: Sabalenka, Rybakina, Samsonova, Vondrousova, Kostyuk, Pavlyuchenkova, Keys, Krejcikova will do well.

Djokovic and Swiatek are too great, will do well anywhere.

by Fastbackss

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:15 am I'm really enjoying Ashkor's predictive posts. I don't respond because I suck at it but I read them all. Good work for Indian Wells!

On to Miami.

His predictions are substantial enough that, if followed, they exceed the vigorish. Not that I would know that...but if he wants a cut of the profits...

by ashkor87 He he thanks

by ashkor87 Just to clarify...the point isn't my predictions..the point is the experiment I am conducting, to test whether the speed of the court makes a difference..so I made some predictions based on the court speed and the playing style of certain players...will keep at it, but I am not trying to engage in a private prediction contest, not at all..

by ponchi101 You can engage in all prediction contests you want. I will keep saying it: we are here to talk about tennis.

by ashkor87 https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/co ... -and-miami
The balls at Miami are heavier...than at IW.
Supports ponchi's point
@ponchi101

by ti-amie

José Morgado
@josemorgado
Former Azarenka's boyfriend Redfoo supporting Azarenka's opponent Stearns in Miami.

Bastien Fachan @BastienFachan There are so many layers to this

I nominate this for the understatement of the year...

by ashkor87 As a volleyer, I always preferred heavier balls, harder for my opponent to hit a passing shot, wonder if volleyers like Michelsen-Paul -Leylah-Taylor would agree...

by ashkor87 the court being slow and balls/conditions making it even more so, the powerful Yastremska should be able to overpower Sakkari..let us see what happens.

by ponchi101 As a S&V, I also always liked heavier balls. My 1st serve worked better and, if I could hit the volley, it felt crispier.

by ashkor87 Amazing how many good players (women) the Czech machine produces! Kvitova, Pliskova, Krejcikova, Muchova, Noskova..and what is amazing is how different they are from each other...not peas in a pod, not at all...

by ponchi101 They are indeed not equal, but they all have the same good fundamentals. There are no quirky shots, the serves are all very polished bio-mechanically, they may prefer playing from the back because that is the modern way but they are good at the net too.
Suliso has said it. The Czechs do something different, because for such a small country, their tennis output is ridiculous.

by skatingfan

by ponchi101

by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:28 am

That's funny

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Ayan Broomfield has a good point. She played for UCLA and won a doubles title.

by skatingfan For me, the thing about Break Point was that it was covering the Australian Open from the year before, and the Australian Open was about to happen again. If the series came out in chunks during the current season rather than a year later that would be more interesting because the information in the series would be relevant to the events about to happen not already a year out of date.

by ponchi101 That is not what people are interested in. They are interested in:
Players that are having their lives wrecked due to drug abuse.
Who is cheating with whom?
Who is fighting alcoholism?
Who is in deep trouble due to gambling debts?

And since the answer to all that seems to be nobody (I assume some affairs are going on in the ATP and the WTA), the series is bland to people's interest.

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:38 pm That is not what people are interested in. They are interested in:
Players that are having their lives wrecked due to drug abuse.
Who is cheating with whom?
Who is fighting alcoholism?
Who is in deep trouble due to gambling debts?

And since the answer to all that seems to be nobody (I assume some affairs are going on in the ATP and the WTA), the series is bland to people's interest.

But that's not the case with the Formula 1 show, or any of the other very successful sports documentaries that are airing on Netflix.

by ponchi101 I see.
Maybe because F1 has an intrinsic sense of danger? Anyway, since I stopped watching F1 so many years ago, I am really not qualified to say anything about it.

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2024 3:05 pm I see.
Maybe because F1 has an intrinsic sense of danger? Anyway, since I stopped watching F1 so many years ago, I am really not qualified to say anything about it.

Perhaps - doesn't explain the appeal of the golf series though - the other series have just been way more interesting - maybe tennis players are just boring.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Somebody needs to read stats better.
Of course he made him play from a level below, because he hit 34% slice BH. That would bring the height down. But I would like to see his average height when playing topspin.

by ti-amie Collins Plans To Celebrate Miami Open Win With Pickleball Tournament
by Zachary Wimer

https://tennis-infinity.com/wta/collins ... tournament

by ti-amie And April 1 has started in earnest...

Spinopsys
@spinopsys@aus.social
Huge news just breaking out of Saudi with the Public Investment Fund (PIF) not only proposing a merger and takeover of #tennis but also #pickleball with those events replacing the doubles events at all tournaments from the 1000 to 250 level except for the Grand Slams.

Fleshing this out, it seems Craig Tiley has broken with the other Slams and will join PIF. This leaves the Australian summer of #tennis intact while opening the doors to competing slams during Roland Garros, Wimbledon and the US Open.

Also hearing there will be prizemoney parity for #pickleball with #tennis so the AO pickleball singles champions will pocket over three million each. All current #tennis doubles specialists will transition over to pickleball.

by ashkor87 Well, that puts the hard court season to bed.
Now for the clay...
the big questions, I would think are:
- how good will Djokovic be? 90% of his best? 80%?.. if he is below that, he wont be a force..
- how well will Sinner do on clay this time?Last year, he was pretty mediocre even in the Italian.. there is nothing in his game to suggest he cannot do well.. at least in the tournaments before the French - 5 sets on clay may be too much for him, but 3? He should be ok..
- Can Osaka finally figure out clay? Nothing in her game suggests she cannot.. after all, even Sharapova figured it out eventually..
- is Halep going to be a force? I dont think her game is really suited to clay - speed and defense are her strength, she will do better on grass (I know, I know, she has won the French and so on)
-the usual suspects - Swiatek and Alcaraz will do well but will they sweep all the titles? They havent in the past, so there is hope for the others yet.

by ponchi101 In order:
Novak is at 90%, but it is physical. There is something off with his body.
Sinner will do better, but he is really more at home on hards. He will do well, but not the fabulous start of the season that he has had.
Naomi just doesn't like clay. Add to that that she is coming back, and it does not say anything about her winning a lot of matches.
Halep will not be a force. The extended lay off was too long.
Iga will dominate on clay. Carlitos is not a force on it, so no sweeping on the men's side.

by ashkor87 Generally agree except I do think Carlos is a major force on clay..I would bet on him to win RG and maybe one of the preps...Monte Carlo maybe...Sinner could win Madrid, conditions are faster there because of altitude...

by nelslus

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 1:10 pm In order:
Novak is at 90%, but it is physical. There is something off with his body.
Sinner will do better, but he is really more at home on hards. He will do well, but not the fabulous start of the season that he has had.
Naomi just doesn't like clay. Add to that that she is coming back, and it does not say anything about her winning a lot of matches.
Halep will not be a force. The extended lay off was too long.
Iga will dominate on clay. Carlitos is not a force on it, so no sweeping on the men's side.

OH, come on now. Let's all hop on the bandwagon that Alcaraz is All Washed Up, and Hail GOAT Sinner. (NOT that I'm saying you're on the Sinner GOAT Boat, especially concerning this year's Roland Garros. I just like hyperbole is all).

Carlos is not a force?!!? Obviously, he's been off since last year's Wimbledon. BUT- he's made the SF's and QF's at Roland Garros, and won 7 clay tournaments. Unless he takes more a dip in results- I think Your Favorite Zit-Head can be counted on as a force at any clay tournament- most definitely including Roland Garros.

by ponchi101 Again, I said he is NOT A FORCE. Is he good? Of course he is; he is a spaniard and probably grew up sprinkling his patatas bravas with the stuff. But it is not as if he dominates on clay completely. I say he will compete well on clay but if he goes 0-4 in the Clay Slam (MC, MAD, Rome and RG) I will not be surprised.

by Owendonovan Zit-head. I haven't heard that in years.

by ashkor87 https://www.theguardian.com/science/202 ... per-second
Probably folks like Agassi...

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 On clay, who are the best players today? in order:
Men
1. Alcaraz
2. Zverev
3. Djokovic?
4. Sinner
5. Ruud
6. Rublev

Women:
1. Swiatek
2. Sabalenka
3. Rybakina
4. Krejcikova
5, Pavlyuchenkova
6. Kostyuk
7. Anisimova
8. Samsonova
9. Vondrousova
10. Svitolina
Gauff, Sakkari are probably next...

This is entirely on how good their game is, and how suited to clay .eg Gauff is very good but I think her strengths are better suited to faster surfaces. Osaka we just don't know ..Muchova who knows...

by ti-amie

Luigi Gatto @gigicat7_
This kid is the new world No. 2 (and soon No. 1)

by ashkor87 sooo cute...

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 2:19 am On clay, who are the best players today? in order:
Men
1. Alcaraz
2. Zverev
3. Djokovic?
4. Sinner
5. Ruud
6. Rublev

Women:
1. Swiatek
2. Sabalenka
3. Rybakina
4. Krejcikova
5, Pavlyuchenkova
6. Kostyuk
7. Anisimova
8. Samsonova
9. Vondrousova
10. Svitolina
Gauff, Sakkari are probably next...

This is entirely on how good their game is, and how suited to clay .eg Gauff is very good but I think her strengths are better suited to faster surfaces. Osaka we just don't know ..Muchova who knows...

Disagree on Ruud. I can't see him sitting at 5 when he has reached consecutive RG finals.

by ashkor87 ok, so do you think he should be ahead of Sinner, then?

by ashkor87 Nothing against Ruud but it is fair to point out that he has never won even a 500 level event ...

by ponchi101 Did not know that fact.
I say Sinner is (on clay) level with him. But at RG, I give him the nod over Zverev. And I would like to see him going against Carlitos.

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:On clay, who are the best players today? in order:
Men
1. Alcaraz
2. Zverev
3. Djokovic?
4. Sinner
5. Ruud
6. Rublev

Women:
1. Swiatek
2. Sabalenka
3. Rybakina
4. Krejcikova
5, Pavlyuchenkova
6. Kostyuk
7. Anisimova
8. Samsonova
9. Vondrousova
10. Svitolina
Gauff, Sakkari are probably next...

This is entirely on how good their game is, and how suited to clay .eg Gauff is very good but I think her strengths are better suited to faster surfaces. Osaka we just don't know ..Muchova who knows...

What about Tsitsipas on clay? I’d put Gauff in the Top 10 on the strength of making the French final.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ashkor87 Yes, Tsitsi could be #6 ahead of Rublev but at the moment, he is not looking like a top player..same with Coco .I am looking at the present,, not the past so having been a finalist at RG doesn't mean much to me
...

by ponchi101 Stefanos has not recovered from whatever injury that was.

by Owendonovan Doubles replaced by pickleball? I'm not remotely interested. I'll play pickleball, it's fun, but it's not tennis.

by ponchi101 It is not even Padel.
The level of athleticism needed for both sports must be about 25% of what is needed to tennis.

by atlpam

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2024 4:40 am Doubles replaced by pickleball? I'm not remotely interested. I'll play pickleball, it's fun, but it's not tennis.

Pretty sure that was an April Fools Day post.

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:03 am Disagree on Ruud. I can't see him sitting at 5 when he has reached consecutive RG finals.

I'm not sure where to rank Ruud right now - last year's final was as a result of a good draw more than good form, and he hasn't won a tournament since Estoril last year.

by ashkor87 https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/vl ... -a-prodigy

A heart-warming story....

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2024 4:24 pm https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/vl ... -a-prodigy

A heart-warming story....

That is nice. I saw the headline on the Tennis homepage and it was just about an 8-year-old prodigy, not the refugee story, and I was disappointed that Tennis was hyping such a young child. This makes more sense.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 11:00 pm

I'll never understand what's wrong with playing a lot of 250/500s for whatever reason - to boost one's ranking, rake in some money, or get in a ton of matches, if that's what some players prefer.

by Owendonovan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:14 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 11:00 pm
I'll never understand what's wrong with playing a lot of 250/500s for whatever reason - to boost one's ranking, rake in some money, or get in a ton of matches, if that's what some players prefer.

Egos are what's wrong with playing a bunch of 250's and 500's. It's a completely distorted view of them by most players for some likely penile reason.

by skatingfan Do we know how they determined which players were included?

by ti-amie I agree SkatingFan but it's been called vulturing for as long as I can remember. I guess it's because the higher ranked player is taking a chance from someone ranked lower to add points to their ranking.

by meganfernandez

Owendonovan wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:14 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 11:00 pm
I'll never understand what's wrong with playing a lot of 250/500s for whatever reason - to boost one's ranking, rake in some money, or get in a ton of matches, if that's what some players prefer.
Egos are what's wrong with playing a bunch of 250's and 500's. It's a completely distorted view of them by most players for some likely penile reason.

Can you elaborate? What is their distorted view?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ponchi101 So the 250's can't get a big name.
How would they draw a good crowd? Featuring Carballes Baena? JJ Wolf?

by Owendonovan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 1:59 am
Owendonovan wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:14 am
I'll never understand what's wrong with playing a lot of 250/500s for whatever reason - to boost one's ranking, rake in some money, or get in a ton of matches, if that's what some players prefer.
Egos are what's wrong with playing a bunch of 250's and 500's. It's a completely distorted view of them by most players for some likely penile reason.
Can you elaborate? What is their distorted view?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seems when you're a top 10, these lower point tournaments are attended as a kind of "courtesy" because you're "too good" for them. Yet, when coming back from injury or some other break, those same players absolutely need them to get back into form and get ranking points, courtesy turns to necessity. The perception of their value changes as you rise in rankings. The tournaments don't change, the players perceptions of those tournament change.

by Suliso Some of those tournaments are not that weak at all and serve as a valuable practice before Slams. Queens/Halle for example.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 1:59 pm Some of those tournaments are not that weak at all and serve as a valuable practice before Slams. Queens/Halle for example.

Especially 500s. They don't belong in this conversation.

by ponchi101

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 3:05 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 1:59 pm Some of those tournaments are not that weak at all and serve as a valuable practice before Slams. Queens/Halle for example.
Especially 500s. They don't belong in this conversation.

And some players play a specific tournament because they are their hometown. Roger played Basel always, Novak of course played the tournaments in the region, solely for tradition and playing to their public.
I remember Connors once saying he played a lot of the smaller tournaments in the USA to play in front of his people. Nothing wrong with that.

by ti-amie Whelp.

Then again these are Challengers held during/after Madrid. A lot of these players will withdraw. The site I use for Entry Lists also posts Challenger lists but they're volatile to say the least.

by ashkor87

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:38 pm What about Tsitsipas on clay? I’d put Gauff in the Top 10 on the strength of making the French final.

He is looking good again.. just beat Zverev !

by ashkor87 i have always wondered.. in a given year, there are (max) 10 Masters tournaments, and 4 majors. Looking at the records of the great players like Djokovic, I would expect them to win about 2.5 times (or at least 2 times) as many Masters as majors. Hasnt happened..
Djokovic - 40 Masters, 24 majors
Nadal 36 Masters, 22 majors
Federer 28 Masters, 20 majors -
one excuse I can find for Federer is that there is no Masters on grass, and he has 8 Wimbledon titles..
but still, a bit unbalanced? They are all (relatively) underperformers at Masters events..I would have expected the opposite..all 3of them must have played most of the majors, harder to win them..

by Fastbackss

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2024 10:44 am i have always wondered.. in a given year, there are (max) 10 Masters tournaments, and 4 majors. Looking at the records of the great players like Djokovic, I would expect them to win about 2.5 times (or at least 2 times) as many Masters as majors. Hasnt happened..
Djokovic - 40 Masters, 24 majors
Nadal 36 Masters, 22 majors
Federer 28 Masters, 20 majors -
one excuse I can find for Federer is that there is no Masters on grass, and he has 8 Wimbledon titles..
but still, a bit unbalanced? They are all (relatively) underperformers at Masters events..I would have expected the opposite..all 3of them must have played most of the majors, harder to win them..

This was like the bat signal to me - love excuse to fall into a data hole.
Possibility as you said - more on a surface they don't prefer?
But I think there's more to it - they actually skip 1000 more than you think. They don't actually play all of them generally should be 2.5 more (10 vs 4) and it's not.
There's also fact it's 3 sets not 5.

So let's go!
Fed GS - 20/81 or 25%
Fed 1000 - 28/138 or 20%
1.7 1000 played for every grand slam.

Nadal GS - 22/67 or 32%
Nadal 1000 - 36/128 or 28%
1.9 1000 played for every grand slam

Djokovic - 24/73 or 33%
40/128 or 31%
1.75 1000 for every grand slam. (Let's remember if he wins this tournament he will have won every 1000 three times, maybe the craziest of the statistics)

Sampras 14/52 or 27%
11/89 or 19%
1.7 1000 played for every GS

The below makes me think the 3vs 5 set format argument has some merit.
(Also shows for how long the women did not have the same calibre of tournaments available to them)

Serena 23/81 or 28%
23/85 or 27%

Steffi 22/54 or 41%
18/36 or 50%

by ashkor87 Yes, interesting take on it...their win rate is certainly higher at majors..maybe, as you say, the 5 sets format means the 'best' players win more often..but how does one define 'best '?

by Suliso I think it's players caring about Slams the most and that's all there is to it. Like NBA regular season and NBA playoffs.

by ashkor87 Could be, yes..the big players are 'big match,' players

by ponchi101

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2024 12:12 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2024 10:44 am i have always wondered.. in a given year, there are (max) 10 Masters tournaments, and 4 majors. Looking at the records of the great players like Djokovic, I would expect them to win about 2.5 times (or at least 2 times) as many Masters as majors. Hasnt happened..
Djokovic - 40 Masters, 24 majors
Nadal 36 Masters, 22 majors
Federer 28 Masters, 20 majors -
one excuse I can find for Federer is that there is no Masters on grass, and he has 8 Wimbledon titles..
but still, a bit unbalanced? They are all (relatively) underperformers at Masters events..I would have expected the opposite..all 3of them must have played most of the majors, harder to win them..
This was like the bat signal to me - love excuse to fall into a data hole.
Possibility as you said - more on a surface they don't prefer?
But I think there's more to it - they actually skip 1000 more than you think. They don't actually play all of them generally should be 2.5 more (10 vs 4) and it's not.
There's also fact it's 3 sets not 5.

So let's go!
Fed GS - 20/81 or 25%
Fed 1000 - 28/138 or 20%
1.7 1000 played for every grand slam.

Nadal GS - 22/67 or 32%
Nadal 1000 - 36/128 or 28%
1.9 1000 played for every grand slam

Djokovic - 24/73 or 33%
40/128 or 31%
1.75 1000 for every grand slam. (Let's remember if he wins this tournament he will have won every 1000 three times, maybe the craziest of the statistics)

Sampras 14/52 or 27%
11/89 or 19%
1.7 1000 played for every GS

The below makes me think the 3vs 5 set format argument has some merit.
(Also shows for how long the women did not have the same calibre of tournaments available to them)

Serena 23/81 or 28%
23/85 or 27%

Steffi 22/54 or 41%
18/36 or 50%

Love your data crunching.
We talk a lot about the BO3 Vs BO5 format. One thing that I believe it is even more important is the day off. At slams, you get one day off all the time (except the USO for some time). At MS1000, you don't. And sometimes, with a late Wednesday start, you may get to play 5 days in a row.
That is tough, regardless of the sets format.

by ashkor87 one more data point - Coco beat Kostyuk at the AO, the fastest of the courts they play on these days, and lost to her at Stuttgart, on clay. Which is exactly whatt I would have (and did) predict... Coco's biggest strength is her foot speed, which isn much of a differentiator on a slow court. Kostyuk's strength is her power, and that is in fact useful on a slow court.

by meganfernandez Muguruza announced her retirement.

She's young enough to come back (30), but I wouldn't count on it.

by ponchi101 I say she overachieved. With her game, two slams, one WTA Finals and two more slam finals was pretty good.
Loved her, but I guess I won't miss her.
And 30 is much to young.

by ashkor87 Loved the fairy tale story of how she met the guy she is going to marry...

by ponchi101 I hate it.
"Oh, I met the person I love in a skiing chair on a lift in a skiing resort in Switzerland, after he recognized me because I am famous and beautiful and he is handsome and super wealthy".
Who were you expecting to meet there? Joe Schmoe?

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:Loved the fairy tale story of how she met the guy she is going to marry...

The weird part of the meet-cute was that he ended up being a fashion executive and she’s so stylish. He could have been anyone, and THAT’S who she randomly meets on a walk to Central Park??

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by ponchi101 I am mixing stories. Didn't she meet him on a skiing trip in Switzerland?

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 8:25 pm I am mixing stories. Didn't she meet him on a skiing trip in Switzerland?

Megan is right on this one.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:I am mixing stories. Didn't she meet him on a skiing trip in Switzerland?

That would have been too much.

She took a walk in Central Park and met him in the street somewhere. He recognized her and said good luck at the open, then turned around and asked for a photo. She was smitten.

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by ashkor87 I liked Muguruza but never forgave her for beating Venus at Wimbledon...Venus was playing well that year....

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote:I liked Muguruza but never forgave her for beating Venus at Wimbledon...Venus was playing well that year....

Is this the only Slam decided on a challenged championship point?

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by skatingfan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:56 am
ashkor87 wrote:I liked Muguruza but never forgave her for beating Venus at Wimbledon...Venus was playing well that year....
Is this the only Slam decided on a challenged championship point?

Probably the only one where the call was reversed in a challenge that ended the match in a slam final, but one of the worst things about the challenge system was challenging match points even if the ball was out by miles.

by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:56 am
ashkor87 wrote:I liked Muguruza but never forgave her for beating Venus at Wimbledon...Venus was playing well that year....
Is this the only Slam decided on a challenged championship point?
Probably the only one where the call was reversed in a challenge that ended the match in a slam final, but one of the worst things about the challenge system was challenging match points even if the ball was out by miles.

Agree, a necessary evil.

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by ponchi101 Not the only one.
The last Roger/Rafa final at the Aussie (I forget the year, but I think it was 2017) also ended on a challenged MP.

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 3:34 am Not the only one.
The last Roger/Rafa final at the Aussie (I forget the year, but I think it was 2017) also ended on a challenged MP.

But that call was correct. Muguruza challenged, and reversed an incorrect call on match point.

by Suliso

skatingfan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 5:35 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 3:34 am Not the only one.
The last Roger/Rafa final at the Aussie (I forget the year, but I think it was 2017) also ended on a challenged MP.
But that call was correct. Muguruza challenged, and reversed an incorrect call on match point.

That's great, isn't it?

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote:Not the only one.
The last Roger/Rafa final at the Aussie (I forget the year, but I think it was 2017) also ended on a challenged MP.

Right but was it overturned in favor of the winner? Did the winner have to stop the point to challenge?

Edit: oh sorry this was answered above

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by Owendonovan I still feel Venus is owed a point from Wimbledon from that Sprem? match.

by skatingfan

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 12:26 pm That's great, isn't it?

Yes, it's good that the correct was corrected. Ponchi mentioned the Federer-Nadal match, and a challenge on match point, but that challenge failed & the call was held up so it's not the same, and that was the point.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

Full quote

by ti-amie

It's worth clicking through and reading the comments.

by skatingfan Sabalenka thinks there isn't enough strategy in women's tennis.

by ti-amie

skatingfan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 11:58 pm Sabalenka thinks there isn't enough strategy in women's tennis.

Isn't it ironic, don't cha think?

by ti-amie

by JTContinental Wasn't Kostyuk given the sportsmanship award a couple of years ago? That seems to have changed significantly.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie I think he's saying that the next gen are very good but we were/are great(er).

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote:I think he's saying that the next gen are very good but we were/are great(er).

Yep. I love it.

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by JTContinental

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 10:44 pm

It's worth clicking through and reading the comments.

"I don't play with any strategy, so therefore I don't think anyone does."

by ashkor87 Re Coco's bagel..I wonder if there are any stats on how many bagels happen where...I would expect a slow clay court to lead...

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I wonder how many players do actually have a game plan, and how many simply play a pattern. Which is not the same.

by Owendonovan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2024 1:06 pm I wonder how many players do actually have a game plan, and how many simply play a pattern. Which is not the same.

In life or a match?

by ponchi101 In a match.
Examples.
I don't think Pete had a strategy. His plan was to get to the net, and close the point there. The same for Martina.
Mac's game plan was "serve wide to the BH in the add court, volley to the open court". Martina did not give you a chance to develop a strategy; once she reached the net (usually by the third stroke of the point at the latest), YOU had to come up with a passing shot. Otherwise, match over.

Wilander had a strategy. Go cross court on every stroke and make you wonder if death by drowning in one foot of water was actually better.
Rublev has a strategy: hit EVERY FOREHAND inside out, and when the opening materializes for the down the line forehand, keep hitting inside out. The plan is basically to bore the other guy to tears.

Arthur Ashe talked about one match in which the strategy was to drop shot his opponent all the time, and make him come to the net. The plan was to get him tired. Then, lob high, to make him hit a smash. Do that for the whole match (which was Bo5) and the guy was tired by the fifth.

by JTContinental Alize Cornet is retiring after Roland Garros

by ti-amie Aryna Sabalenka clarifies incendiary comments saying she prefers watching men’s tennis
Kevin Palmer

Aryna Sabalenka caused a stir when she suggested she would rather watch men’s matches than her rivals on the WTA Tour, but now she has moved to explain those comments.

The world No 2 was in jovial mood when she suggested she didn’t watch a lot of tennis, as she went on to claim she preferred watching the top male players performing on the ATP Tour.

“I’m not one to watch a lot of tennis, I prefer to watch men’s tennis than women’s, I feel there’s more logic and it’s more interesting to watch,” said Sabalenka while laughing.

That comment was always likely to spark a reaction, even if it did look a little more cold than Sabalenka intended it to be.

So it was no surprise that she was keen to explain the meaning behind her comments, as she spoke to the media after her compelling opening match at the Madrid Open ended with a 6-4 3-6 6-3 win against Poland’s Magda Linette.

“I didn’t want to disparage women’s tennis, no,” she insisted. “Listen, I mean, we are doing our best and, great, there are lots of great matches.

“I don’t like to watch it just because I play against all of them and I just want to kind of like change the picture.

“I watch lots of women’s tennis before I go to the match, I watch my opponents, I watch lots of women’s tennis. It’s not like I don’t like it or like I try to offend what I do, you know.

“I just find it more fun to watch the men play because I spend a lot of time studying my opponents, so then in my free time I don’t want to see the girls I play against again.”

(...)

The tragic death of her ex-partner Konstantin Koltsov in Miami last month may well have impacted her ambitions on the tennis court in recent weeks, as she admits she may have fallen behind world No 1 Iga Swiatek and No 3 Elena Rybakina.

“I feel like I’ve lowered the level a little within this hypothetical’ Big Three’, this last month feels more like a Big Two,” said Sabalenka.

“However, I’m happy to be part of this group and these things. They continue to play like this.

“I don’t watch their games, no: I feel like I’ve played against them a lot and that, if I face one of them again, my coach will show me images of the games to analyze and prepare me.

“I don’t think it’s about having confidence, it’s about being ready to achieve everything. The important thing is to be ready and prepared for big battles.

“The important thing is to stay in these games, fight until the end. I will fight for every point and, if I have opportunities, take advantage of them. That’s my mindset going into the clay court season.”

Sabalenka will be looking to find her form ahead of the French Open, with America’s Robin Montgomery her next opponent in the Spanish capital after her win against Britain’s Katie Boulter.

https://www.tennis365.com/wta-tour/aryn ... ens-tennis

by ashkor87 People are too quick to take offense ..

by ashkor87 Saba needs a couple of easy matches to get in the groove..Robin could be just what she needs..a good player, in form, but not likely to beat Saba

by skatingfan

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 2:36 am People are too quick to take offense ..

One of the top's women tennis players says women's tennis isn't good - that's not about offending anyone, but it's definitely going to lead to some follow up questions.

by ponchi101 And the article shows one of my peeves.
Rybakina is NOT the world #3. She is #4. Sure, she has been #3, but that is precisely the point: she is currently not. Somebody, please proof read the articles before you post them.

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 1:55 pm And the article shows one of my peeves.
Rybakina is NOT the world #3. She is #4. Sure, she has been #3, but that is precisely the point: she is currently not. Somebody, please proof read the articles before you post them.

Editors for things like this simply don't exist anymore.

by ti-amie

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 2:38 am Saba needs a couple of easy matches to get in the groove..Robin could be just what she needs..a good player, in form, but not likely to beat Saba

Robin made her work for it. Good for her.

by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote:
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 1:55 pm And the article shows one of my peeves.
Rybakina is NOT the world #3. She is #4. Sure, she has been #3, but that is precisely the point: she is currently not. Somebody, please proof read the articles before you post them.
Editors for things like this simply don't exist anymore.

I don’t know anything about Tennis 365, but I would be shocked if they have fact-checkers. The story editor should fact-check, and I’m sure they know tennis and take some shortcuts, assuming things here and there. For instance, I wouldn’t have double-checked that Iga is No. 1. I know she is.

Even with fact-checking, errors still happen. They will always happen. Not worth getting bent out of shape over.

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by ti-amie

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 2:48 am
skatingfan wrote:
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 1:55 pm And the article shows one of my peeves.
Rybakina is NOT the world #3. She is #4. Sure, she has been #3, but that is precisely the point: she is currently not. Somebody, please proof read the articles before you post them.
Editors for things like this simply don't exist anymore.
I don’t know anything about Tennis 365, but I would be shocked if they have fact-checkers. The story editor should fact-check, and I’m sure they know tennis and take some shortcuts, assuming things here and there. For instance, I wouldn’t have double-checked that Iga is No. 1. I know she is.

Even with fact-checking, errors still happen. They will always happen. Not worth getting bent out of shape over.

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The reason people get bent out of shape about it is because such factual errors wouldn't be tolerated in any other major sport. It's only tennis where you see such mistakes take place.

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 3:05 am The reason people get bent out of shape about it is because such factual errors wouldn't be tolerated in any other major sport. It's only tennis where you see such mistakes take place.

People would complain about it, but they still happen. It's not about the sport, it's about the media, and the cuts to that industry. The transition from legacy media is not going well.

by ti-amie

skatingfan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 3:41 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 3:05 am The reason people get bent out of shape about it is because such factual errors wouldn't be tolerated in any other major sport. It's only tennis where you see such mistakes take place.
People would complain about it, but they still happen. It's not about the sport, it's about the media, and the cuts to that industry. The transition from legacy media is not going well.

That's a valid point. Still I can't imagine someone covering MLB, the NFL, NHL or NBA putting out erroneous stats and not being dragged by fans so hard that a correction was as quickly as possible. This could be bloggers or major sports outlets.

by Suliso Also would any of us have made such a mistake? No way I would have. Maybe some other, but not something related to rankings.

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 2:48 am
skatingfan wrote: Editors for things like this simply don't exist anymore.
I don’t know anything about Tennis 365, but I would be shocked if they have fact-checkers. The story editor should fact-check, and I’m sure they know tennis and take some shortcuts, assuming things here and there. For instance, I wouldn’t have double-checked that Iga is No. 1. I know she is.

Even with fact-checking, errors still happen. They will always happen. Not worth getting bent out of shape over.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The reason people get bent out of shape about it is because such factual errors wouldn't be tolerated in any other major sport. It's only tennis where you see such mistakes take place.

Are you sure? Are any of us readying the baseball or golf version of Tennis 365? It’s a blog, not a top publication?

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by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote:
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 3:05 am The reason people get bent out of shape about it is because such factual errors wouldn't be tolerated in any other major sport. It's only tennis where you see such mistakes take place.
People would complain about it, but they still happen. It's not about the sport, it's about the media, and the cuts to that industry. The transition from legacy media is not going well.

And the Internet demands wildly fast turnaround, especially for sports, and that’s how silly mistakes are made.

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by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote:Also would any of us have made such a mistake? No way I would have. Maybe some other, but not something related to rankings.

Not so sure about that. I have made several silly mistakes. Trust me, it’s easier than you’d think when you’re rushing and so so sure you know a “fact.”

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by Suliso I write scientific papers and patents. It's a habit to check and triple check everything.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:09 pm I write scientific papers and patents. It's a habit to check and triple check everything.

Have you ever submitted something with a mistake?

Writers and editors should double-check, as well. My guess is the professional ones do, but a few typos and factual errors still get through. I've been so embarrassed by some mistakes I have published. At the US Open, I had to turn in match reports within 15 minutes of the match. I could add to them later, but it was stressful and I made mistakes. They were edited but not fact-checked. And I don't consider myself sloppy. Maybe I am.

by Suliso

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:52 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:09 pm I write scientific papers and patents. It's a habit to check and triple check everything.
Writers should and the editors should. I'm not saying the mistakes are justified. Some of them are understandable and inconsequential.

Have you ever submitted something with a mistake?

Yes, but at typo level not anything major. To be fair it's 5-10 articles/patents per year not two per week.

by meganfernandez

Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:54 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:52 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:09 pm I write scientific papers and patents. It's a habit to check and triple check everything.
Writers should and the editors should. I'm not saying the mistakes are justified. Some of them are understandable and inconsequential.

Have you ever submitted something with a mistake?
Yes, but at typo level not anything major. To be fair it's 5-10 articles/patents per year not two per week.

Or with deadline pressure?

Rushing creates mistakes, but I agree that a lot of people are assuming they know things and don't double-check. Guilty myself.

by ti-amie When I was actively blogging about tennis I tried to make sure that there were no such errors. A blogger does have the time to, when typing up a post, to stop and say wait, is what I'm saying accurate? Let me check. Then again I was a lit major and write fiction for fun so it's second nature for me to fact check things.

Also I didn't monetize my blog so I didn't have any pressure to submit a post within a certain time frame.

I just can't imagine someone covering the NBA playoffs posting Jalen Brunson's stats and making an error that stayed up for any length of time.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 they all are pretty good, actually...

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 11:38 pm they all are pretty good, actually...

They just have to realize that they can't hit an open stance one-handed backhand, and they'd probably be fine - they'd lose every match but the ball strike would be nice.

by ti-amie

by 0xPadel

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 11:07 pm

Wow it's been a while ! South American players prefer padel.

The Argentinians in particular are the best players.

by ashkor87 Rublev has now won 16 titles, no two at the same tournament, or even in the same city!!

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 11:07 pm

If we are going that way, it has been almost 19 years since a NORTH American male player has won a slam.
Odd timing to bring that up. No slam is being played, and the USO is months away.

by ashkor87 Plus Serena! And Andreescu..not to mention Coco

by ponchi101 I said, specifically, MALE players. The women have done well.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 12:40 pm I said, specifically, MALE players. The women have done well.

Yes, you did, but the original post didnt

by ashkor87 Interestingly enough, the wta tour leader on service return is Coco..somehow, hadn't thought of her as a great returner.
Without recourse to the data, I would have thought Swiatek or Vika...

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 A career derailed by an injury. If healthy, I think he would be in the mix.

by Fastbackss https://www.itia.tennis/news/sanctions/ ... -for-life/

[Atanasov effectively admitted liability for numerous TACP offenses between 2019 and 2023, including the manipulation of scoring data of matches for betting purposes, facilitating wagering, conspiring to commit corruption offenses, wagering on tennis matches, and failure to report corrupt approaches]

First time I have seen something with an official

Screenshot_20240508-104531.png

by ashkor87 any word on why?

by Fastbackss Not that I have seen

by JTContinental She hates tennis?

by ponchi101 She has said it. That she only plays for the money.
A career wasted (not that I think she was Slams material). but, if she played for the money, and with her looks, she could have made much more.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 Apparently, Roddick has been working with Coco on her toss..I find that funny- Roddick had practically no toss at all ! You need to be very strong to serve like him, and you won't last long, either.
Sampras or Federer or Serena would be better role models for a serve..

by ashkor87 Madison Keys had a very insightful comment on Swiatek. ..'she slides so well, like Bertens did, you can't really wrong-foot her..'
Very true, I think..it is all about movement and balance, and Iga is simply the best at it. Not foot-speed, really..it is not a sprint.

by ponchi101 Well, maybe Roddick can get Coco to lower her toss. The higher the toss, the more precise you need to be. Roddick was one of those guys that almost hit it on the way UP.
I think his racquet helped a lot.

by ashkor87 Tanner was another such.. and he had a fearsome serve too..

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Don't tell me tennis players are not some of the most incredible athletes, in all of sports.
The level of eye/hand/foot coordination just can't be measured. Wow!

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Andy slowly has become mandatory reading.

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:02 pm Andy slowly has become mandatory reading.

I've been listening to his podcast, and interviews.

by Fastbackss He is an outstanding listen. Great insight, candor, surprisingly good asker of questions

by meganfernandez

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 2:36 pm He is an outstanding listen. Great insight, candor, surprisingly good asker of questions

Served is better than I thought it would be, and he has surprised me with this tennis IQ and knowlege about lower-ranked players. And a true passion for the sport now, not just in his heyday. Love the perspective he brings from his time on tour. But he's A LOT sometimes. Likes to hear himself speak, talks like a runaway train sometimes. I'm getting a little tired of the phrase "bully ball" or "bully the ball around." He loves his little phrases, and I do, too, but sometimes it gets tiresome. Feels like he's trying to hard be clever or cool.

I HATE the name "Racket Report" for this rundown of recent results and other news. It sounds like it's going to be about equipment. Gets me every time. It's not a racket report. It's more of a court report.

by Fastbackss But...it's now sponsored by Wilson so the racket name is apropos haha.

He does have some go to expressions. Almost feels like being part of a club if you are lucky enough to hear/use them.

He does have a few phrase "crutches" but I am able to ignore it as it seems so genuine. It's him. (And I didn't mind his outbursts as a player so I may be biased). I am happy he's worked through not saying "uhhh" as much before speaking. The first few episodes were tough in that regard

by ti-amie

by ti-amie A new grass court calendar for 2025
16/05/24 •

During the past two years the LTA in consultation with the All England Club have been reviewing the entire grass court season with the intention of improving the experience for fans and players.

The purpose of the review has been to raise the profile and visibility of tennis in Britain during the run up to The Championships at Wimbledon.

The plans unveiled today will offer more fans the opportunity to watch professional tennis, particularly women’s tennis, both live and on television, whilst ensuring that there are the same number of playing opportunities for British and overseas players across the four-week period.

The new calendar of professional events for 2025 is being unveiled today and will:

See high profile events at the start of the season to ensure maximum visibility for tennis
Promote women’s tennis to a larger audience and raise its profile
Ensure every tournament venue will host both male and female events
Changes to the 2025 grass court schedule
The 2025 grass court season will launch with a combined challenger level event at the Edgbaston Priory Club in Birmingham in the week of 2 June. It will be the first male and female combined event in professional tennis history in Birmingham.

The following week will see the return of a tour level women’s event in London for the first time in over 50 years, as The Queen’s Club plays host to a high-profile WTA 500 event. The traditional combined challenger level event at Ilkley will also take place this week. The exact classification of these challenger events will be confirmed in the coming months.

The week of 16 June will see Queen’s host its hugely popular men’s ATP 500 tournament in the usual slot. Alongside this, the Lexus Nottingham Tennis Centre will host its women’s WTA 250 event and a men’s ATP 125 Challenger event.

The final week of the season before The Championships will see Devonshire Park in Eastbourne host a combined women’s and men’s WTA/ATP 250 in its traditional week, as players head to the coast before making their final preparations for a trip to Wimbledon.

The changes mean the mixed event in Surbiton, south-west London, will come to an end after 2024. The LTA would like to place on record its thanks to the Surbiton Racket and Fitness Club for their longstanding help in hosting this event.

The arrangements for the 2025 British Open Wheelchair event will be confirmed closer to the time.

https://www.lta.org.uk/news/a-new-grass ... -for-2025/

The TL;dr

Birmingham will kick off the UK grass season, but is now a 125/challenger event and will take place during the second week of RG

Queen's Club will host a 500 event, starting the day after RG ends

Nottingham will now be in the middle of the grass season, but remains a 250 event

Eastbourne is downgraded to a 250 event

Surbiton is no more

All events will be both WTA and ATP tournaments

by ti-amie Word on the street is that Venus will announce her retirement from tennis on Monday.

by ashkor87 Kerber provides evidence to support my theory that it takes power to win on slow surfaces, such as clay... She has won every major except the French..she is too underpowered but has the counter punching ability to win on grass and hard courts.

by ponchi101 Davenport never won it. She had power. Schiavone won it. She didn't. Venus never did, and she had power, and then you have the Myskina's and Majoli's that scored big despite not having much power.
It is a tricky surface. I say it is not the power, it is the footwork. With some exceptions.

by ashkor87 Yes, movement is as important...

But Myskina and Majoli were a long time ago, when the name of the game was different...maybe we can say..you can't win nowadays without power, having power is not enough to win it ..necessary but not sufficient condition these days

by skatingfan I think a player's shot tolerance has a lot to do with it.

by ponchi101 That's an interesting concept. What do you mean precisely by shot tolerance?

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2024 5:00 pm That's an interesting concept. What do you mean precisely by shot tolerance?

The ability to repeat the same shot again, and again without missing. There are power players - Venus Williams for example - who can use that power to win points on fast courts, but on a slower court they struggle because they don't have the ability to replicate that same shot again, and again, as is often required, to win the point.

by ashkor87 Giron beat Rublev yesterday ..because his movement on grass is very good ..Rublev's power didn't help him on grass..another data point

by ponchi101 On grass, I agree with you 100%. Sure, power will get you far. But on grass, it is not only being fast, you also have to be very light. Roger, Borg, Mac, Steffi, Navs, Pete. One exception would be Serena, but she was able to get away with not being light because she dictated the point from the start.
Not to mention the oldies (Laver, Rosewall, those guys).

by ashkor87 These debates are very useful to me, at least..helps clarify things in my head..

by ponchi101 And Murray goes down too with an injury.
It is too slippery.

by ponchi101 And Vondrousova. Here is as it is described by the news:
"The World No.6 was leading Anna Kalinskaya 5-3 in the first set when she slipped and fell after a split-step on the first point of the ninth game. "

After a split step. It is a very tricky move on grass. And this season it seems (to me) that too many players are getting injured.

by ashkor87 QZ's serving action makes it hard to read ..she tosses the ball practically behind her back..

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 It was only a 125 event but Alycia Parks won both singles and doubles last week, on grass, Gaiba (no idea where that is!)..I hope she is learning to control her game...
She is the risky asset in my portfolio!

by JTContinental Nice to see her getting back on track. I really like her and her game, but she needs a better coach to maximize her potential.

by meganfernandez

by ashkor87 Tommy Paul reminds me soon much of Roddick ..the cap, the quick-serve motion, the slapping forehand..

by ti-amie

No lies seen...

by ponchi101 But losing to clowns, from a player that has lost points because he thought he had won them and started celebrating before the point had actually ended, has a bad taste to it.

by meganfernandez

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 6:07 am Tommy Paul reminds me soon much of Roddick ..the cap, the quick-serve motion, the slapping forehand..

No bravado, though.

Osaka.png

by skatingfan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 2:03 am Awful

Osaka.png

I think they were going for some sort of Serena tribute, but it looked liked random pieces of fabric stitched together.

by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 2:22 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 2:03 am Awful

Osaka.png
I think they were going for some sort of Serena tribute, but it looked liked random pieces of fabric stitched together.

that's generous.

It looks like a cross between a curtain valance and a beauty queen sash,

by mick1303 This remark will haunt Tiafoe. Bad taste

by mick1303 What I've noticed that in all tennis couples it is clear who is the more accomplished on his/her respective tour. I thought that it was not the clear case in Monfils-Svitolina couple. But then I looked up and Gael does not quite measure up. Elina has 4 tier I titles plus YEC. Higher career win-loss percentage and more titles.

by ponchi101

mick1303 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 5:43 am What I've noticed that in all tennis couples it is clear who is the more accomplished on his/her respective tour. I thought that it was not the clear case in Monfils-Svitolina couple. But then I looked up and Gael does not quite measure up. Elina has 4 tier I titles plus YEC. Higher career win-loss percentage and more titles.

Connors-Evert. Evert more accomplished.
Graf-Agassi. Steffi more accomplished.
Deminaur-Boulter. Alex more.
Berrettini- Tomljanovic. Matteo.
Sinner-Kalinskaya. Sinner so far.
Hingis-Stepanek. Hingis more accomplished.

And you point out Gael/Elina.

Mixed results.

by ti-amie

by ptmcmahon

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:57 pm

As a Roddick fan (don’t judge me too harshly) this is the number one reason I always “hated” Roger… in a can’t beat our rival kind of way.

I remember the fifth set was so eerie as all of Rogers holds were so easy and Roddick had to fight for each hold so the whole set seemed like it was just a matter of time.

by texasniteowl

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 12:43 am
As a Roddick fan (don’t judge me too harshly) this is the number one reason I always “hated” Roger… in a can’t beat our rival kind of way.

I remember the fifth set was so eerie as all of Rogers holds were so easy and Roddick had to fight for each hold so the whole set seemed like it was just a matter of time.

I didn't "hate" Roger, but I do wish Andy had won that one. If I had the power to change any one match...that one would be at the top of my list for consideration. But generational timing is everything. Without Roger and Rafa, Andy Roddick and Andy Murray would both likely have more Slam titles to their names, along with other players.

by mick1303 I was looking at the doubles ladies draw of the recent Roland Garros and got a question. How is the score that is ended with "Ab" is different from retirement, if this is not the final round and there is a winner, that proceeds in a draw? What actually happened there (in Kenin/Mattek vs Frech/Tomova)?

by ptmcmahon That was (one of) the days with rain delays. Maybe ab = aborted? As in the team losing decided not to continue after the rain delay? Maybe

by ashkor87 That is a good question to trigger a new discussion topic. If you had the power to change the result of any one match, which one would that be? And why?
I would say the Medvedev - Nadal Australian open finals..because the crowd was so patently unfair, it may have changed the course of Medvedev's career..

by skatingfan

mick1303 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 10:04 am I was looking at the doubles ladies draw of the recent Roland Garros and got a question. How is the score that is ended with "Ab" is different from retirement, if this is not the final round and there is a winner, that proceeds in a draw? What actually happened there (in Kenin/Mattek vs Frech/Tomova)?

It's a retirement - I can't remember what word they use in French that would start with an a - but when you click on the match to see the details it shows retirement.

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 12:14 pm That is a good question to trigger a new discussion topic. If you had the power to change the result of any one match, which one would that be? And why?
I would say the Medvedev - Nadal Australian open finals..because the crowd was so patently unfair, it may have changed the course of Medvedev's career..

The crowd was unfair? Medvedev called the Australian open crowd "STUPID" and he expected the crowd to be impartial? He behaved like a total jerk throughout the tournament.
You crop what you seed.

by mick1303

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 12:14 pm That is a good question to trigger a new discussion topic. If you had the power to change the result of any one match, which one would that be? And why?
I would say the Medvedev - Nadal Australian open finals..because the crowd was so patently unfair, it may have changed the course of Medvedev's career..

I agree. This one did not feel right. They were shouting between first and second serve. IMO this was a clear hindrance and umpire should've called it and gave Meddy a first serve. This was the only way to counteract this. Asking them to be quiet clearly did not work.

by mick1303 Medvedev called them stupid AFTER they were shouting during his serve. Overall I consider this Oz open in the same mold with Roddick's US Open 2003. Multiple interferences to help the "desired" player to win. Roddick got obvious calls in his favor during the semis with Nalbandian and very generous scheduling, having JCF exhausted before the final. Nadal had officials turning blind eye to his time violations during Shapo match.

by ponchi101 Nadal did not have officials turning a blind eye during his Shapo match. Nadal had the officials turning a blind eye for his time violations during his entire career.
So that was expected.

And, if we are going to start giving players an excuse for a loss because of the way the crowd behave, we can call Stan Smith (DC vs Romania) or Taylor Fritz (2023 RG) to tell us how you handle that. Medvedev had that match on his hands, and he let it go.

by ashkor87 i was so disgusted i stopped watching

by mick1303

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 4:46 pm Nadal did not have officials turning a blind eye during his Shapo match. Nadal had the officials turning a blind eye for his time violations during his entire career.
So that was expected.

And, if we are going to start giving players an excuse for a loss because of the way the crowd behave, we can call Stan Smith (DC vs Romania) or Taylor Fritz (2023 RG) to tell us how you handle that. Medvedev had that match on his hands, and he let it go.

Giving excuse to Medvedev was not the point of this mental exercise. He faced adversity and he lost. Did not manage to overcome it. But there are different kinds of adversity. If I understood Ashkor correctly, he wanted examples when fairness and the sporting principles were violated, putting one of the competitors at disadvantage. I think of the recent markee matches this one is a best example.

by ponchi101 I did not understand it as which match was "unfair" in a way that you would like to change the outcome. I read it as "which match would you like changed".
For me: Agassi def Sampras 2000 Aussie. Sampras was on his way to beat him and hitting a running FH (for a winner) in the 4th set TB he pulled a muscle in his leg. Dropped the 5th 6-1.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 10:00 pm I did not understand it as which match was "unfair" in a way that you would like to change the outcome. I read it as "which match would you like changed".
For me: Agassi def Sampras 2000 Aussie. Sampras was on his way to beat him and hitting a running FH (for a winner) in the 4th set TB he pulled a muscle in his leg. Dropped the 5th 6-1.

there are SO many, but I'll start with Jabeur/Vondrousova last year at Wimbledon. Jabeur would have been a worthier winner and better for the sport.

Roger, 2008 Wimbledon final. That one hurt. I though it was the turning point in Roger's invincibility that I was enjoying so much. I'd trade it for Roddick to beat Fed in the 2009 final so Andy would have his W.

Hingis-Majoli

by mick1303 If we go further in time, then the obvious choice is that Hamburg match between Graf and Seles. I wish security would caught that guy.

by skatingfan

mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 8:03 am If we go further in time, then the obvious choice is that Hamburg match between Graf and Seles. I wish security would caught that guy.

Not that I disagree, but the match was against Magdalena Maleeva.

by mick1303

skatingfan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 11:24 am
mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 8:03 am If we go further in time, then the obvious choice is that Hamburg match between Graf and Seles. I wish security would caught that guy.
Not that I disagree, but the match was against Magdalena Maleeva.

Of course! You're correct. But in a grand scheme of things...

by ashkor87 My wife says Kalinskaya looks a lot like Genie Bouchard..I must say I agree...

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 12:57 pm My wife says Kalinskaya looks a lot like Genie Bouchard..I must say I agree...

Indeed. A resemblance is there. They are both very pretty.

by ashkor87 My wife is always right

by ptmcmahon Is she watching your posts too ?

by meganfernandez

skatingfan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 11:24 am
mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 8:03 am If we go further in time, then the obvious choice is that Hamburg match between Graf and Seles. I wish security would caught that guy.
Not that I disagree, but the match was against Magdalena Maleeva.

Excellent memory. I didn't know that.

by skatingfan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 3:10 pm Excellent memory. I didn't know that.

I had to double check it - wasn't a 100% certain.

by nelslus

skatingfan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 5:58 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 3:10 pm Excellent memory. I didn't know that.
I had to double check it - wasn't a 100% certain.

I 100% knew. I will always remember this. Burned in my memory. Always, especially as a fan of Monica, will be a deeply painful memory.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Was this needed? I mean, influenza and C19 are still around, not to mention boogers and sticky sweat.

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 8:33 pm Was this needed? I mean, influenza and C19 are still around, not to mention boogers and sticky sweat.

Kids not grabbing towels for millionaires was one of my favourite COVID rule changes.

by ashkor87

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 1:28 pm Is she watching your posts too ?

No, beneath her dignity!

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 And they choose Connors to highlight the 1980's style...

by ti-amie

by Owendonovan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 7:54 am

Well, Europeans are much more maturely civilized than Americans with their youth.

by ashkor87 Which is why Laver Cup makes little sense..maybe Eastern vs Western Europe would be more competitive...or if women were included

by skatingfan

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 11:16 am Which is why Laver Cup makes little sense..maybe Eastern vs Western Europe would be more competitive...or if women were included

Competiveness was not one of the goals when Laver Cup was started.

by ti-amie Another double bounce controversy but this is clearer.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Game, set, match, Broady.

by ashkor87 The week or two after a major is the 'funny season' when all players are relaxed and not taking matches too seriously ..we should not take results and form too seriously yet- and now the Olympics adds to the long break from serious tennis ..

by ptmcmahon The week before a slam too

by ti-amie Sorry these are so late.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 Just me being pedantic but it should be Tennis International Hall of Fame...tennis is international by design .it s the hall of fame that needs the qualifier..

by ashkor87 Now we have another Samsonova..Laura - Czech, 16 yr old, won her first wta match at prague, runner up at the French juniors..just beat Siniakova

by ashkor87 alycia parks seems to be queen of 125 level events ..just won Warsaw ..wish she would learn to control her power...

by ashkor87 Am tired of hearing 'experts' tell us Djokovic is the greatest returner of all time..frankly, I think Nadal is better, and Agassi better than both of them..some years I used to check the stats and Nadal was indeed better than Djoko ..I haven't checked lately, neither is in his prime .

by skatingfan

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 12:14 pm Am tired of hearing 'experts' tell us Djokovic is the greatest returner of all time..frankly, I think Nadal is better, and Agassi better than both of them..some years I used to check the stats and Nadal was indeed better than Djoko ..I haven't checked lately, neither is in his prime .

Better in terms of percentage of return points won? I would rank Djokovic as #1 based on his ability to hit both offensive, and defensive returns, and in particular, to make a high percentage of returns and make the server play.

by ashkor87 Certainly yes, getting a high percentage of returns back, but I thought Agassi did more with the return than Djokovic does..I think Nadal (when I checked) won more return points than anyone ..which is what counts, in a way .

by ponchi101 Jimmy.
Connors.
Hitting returns with a 62 sq. in. Wilson T2000. Not for the meek.

by MediaGrrl I’ve been lucky enough to attend Wimbledon three times. In 2018, I overnight queued for Centre Court to see my boy Roger, who played Lacko. Great day, lots of good second round action.

So, it occurred to me while watching it online this year, they have archived years on the BBC iplayer! We had great seats, maybe 10 rows up behind the players. Surely we were captured on camera- especially since my friend is and was a stunning redhead. Never hurts for a bored cameraman.

No easily accessed online archive.

Would any of you mega fans have that match/day taped?

Worth asking!!

Martina (no not that one

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 6:52 pm Jimmy.
Connors.
Hitting returns with a 62 sq. in. Wilson T2000. Not for the meek.

True but he really couldn't handle McEnroe...Agassi did, but much later, of course

by ponchi101 At his peak, a WALL couldn't handle Mac.

Agassi came much later, when Mac was not at his peak, and Agassi was playing with the Prince pro, at 120+ sq. in. That was literally twice the area Connors was using (by then Connors had switched to the Pro Staff 6.0, with a WHOOPING 85 sq. in.)

by meganfernandez

MediaGrrl wrote:I’ve been lucky enough to attend Wimbledon three times. In 2018, I overnight queued for Centre Court to see my boy Roger, who played Lacko. Great day, lots of good second round action.

So, it occurred to me while watching it online this year, they have archived years on the BBC iplayer! We had great seats, maybe 10 rows up behind the players. Surely we were captured on camera- especially since my friend is and was a stunning redhead. Never hurts for a bored cameraman.

No easily accessed online archive.

Would any of you mega fans have that match/day taped?

Worth asking!!

Martina (no not that one

How cool. The match isn’t on YouTube?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by ashkor87 And so Kerber retires..a players' player if ever there was one..admired and respected by all of us who ever held a racket...

by skatingfan 3 hour match with Zheng to end Kerber's career seems appropriate for a player who made a very good career fighting to the end.

by ponchi101 Loved her, but won't miss her much. The strokes were a bit too stiff for my taste.

by jazzyg I always liked Kerber and really wanted her to win today, but let's not get carried away. She was not always respected by other players. There was the infamous point she won against Hantuchova once on an overruled out call that Hantuchova returned in play. Kerber, who clearly saw the ball land in, refused to cop to it when Hantuchova pleaded with her to tell the umpire.

Kerber also was incredibly ungracious to Andreescu when she lost to her twice in a row in 2019.

by ashkor87 On Kerber

I look only at her game, not her behavior...as a player, I find a lot to learn from her.

by ashkor87 The best service returners today
1. DeMinaur
2. Alcaraz and Djoko roughly equal
4 Tommy paul

Ignoring folks like Navone as it may be just an aberration
Women:
1.Coco
2. Swiatek
3. Andreeva

According to the atptour and wta sites...
Any surprises,? I find Tommy Paul surprising ..

by ponchi101 What definition are they using? To me, the best returner is the one that breaks serve the most. But it could be the player that returns most first serves in.

by skatingfan Not sure where Katerina Siniakova stands in the history of the sport, but in the past few months she's won the French Open, Wimbledon, and the Olympics (mixed) with different partners.

by ponchi101 A truly great doubles player.
Not hard to see that.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 7:43 pm What definition are they using? To me, the best returner is the one that breaks serve the most. But it could be the player that returns most first serves in.

return points won, first and second serve separately

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 With the depleted field, she does deserve a WC. Somebody to put people in the stands.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 10:25 pm With the depleted field, she does deserve a WC. Somebody to put people in the stands.

And since she just made a good run at Wimbledon, putting her back on the map. Sad they didn't give her a WC but why not play qualifies and get some matches in, unless she is playing smaller events instead. Raducanu deserved a WC more than Stearns and Dolehide.

by Owendonovan

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2024 7:35 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 10:25 pm With the depleted field, she does deserve a WC. Somebody to put people in the stands.
And since she just made a good run at Wimbledon, putting her back on the map. Sad they didn't give her a WC but why not play qualifies and get some matches in, unless she is playing smaller events instead. Raducanu deserved a WC more than Stearns and Dolehide.

She does deserve them more than Payton Caroline, but to not consider qualifying is just such a princess move on her part.

by meganfernandez

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 12:44 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2024 7:35 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 10:25 pm With the depleted field, she does deserve a WC. Somebody to put people in the stands.
And since she just made a good run at Wimbledon, putting her back on the map. Sad they didn't give her a WC but why not play qualifies and get some matches in, unless she is playing smaller events instead. Raducanu deserved a WC more than Stearns and Dolehide.
She does deserve them more than Payton Caroline, but to not consider qualifying is just such a princess move on her part.

I agree if she isn't playing smaller tournaments instead

by ti-amie

by ti-amie The Tennis Letter
@TheTennisLetter
Taylor Townsend spoke about her dad after beating Dolehide in Cincinnati

“With the biggest amount of pride in his eyes.. there is a man walking around the grounds telling every single person that he’s your dad…”

Taylor: “Yeah so I’ll let you guys in on a little thing. I was feeling emotional this morning and last night. It kind of all hit me at once having my family and friends with me. It’s something that doesn’t make me uncomfortable... But I’m not used to it. We’re so used to being on the road by ourselves. It’s really special to be able to look over at my box and have people that I really love and care about. I got sad because I was like ‘In a couple days it’s gonna be gone..’ I really had to just kind of ground myself and know to enjoy the present. I’m so happy you’re here. My dad took off work. He’s like ‘I’m here til the end.’ We’re gonna keep rocking dad. Let’s go.”

by ponchi101 Nice story.

by ti-amie

That he starts the smash before the return is completed gives extra points. I believe there are better but the intensity level makes this a 9.5 for me.Some are pointing out that his use of a "proper" continental grip makes it a ten.

I'd give Carlitos a 9 because it took him four times before he demolished the racquet as opposed to Dimitrov's one and done.

by ponchi101 Grigor's was an "artist" smash: one quick flick of the wrist, and the thing was gone.
Carlitos was an "artisan" smash. One hit, he broke it. A second and a third to ensure the job was done. And a fourth, to show his dedication to the task at hand.
I give him a 9 also. Notice how he stretches to get more power, using his legs to put more weight on his arm swing.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

I disagree that he made the wrong call re Shapo but the Fritz incident and this one are really

Rennae is saying this because the argument now is Draper didn't know.

Rennae Stubbs
@rennaestubbs
·
6h
You know as a player! U just know! I was a serve and volleyer and trust me when i tell you. I would have known.

by ponchi101 Serious, silly question.
Would it have been too bad to replay the point? Feliz was sure it had bounced on Draper's court, but the rule is that you cannot make calls on your opponent's side. Draper said he did not know. The Chair was super iffy.
And I was watching the match, and it was way too fast.
Replaying it would have solved the issue. TV replay could have helped. Another judge on court too.

by ti-amie

by skatingfan I think the criticism of the chair umpire is unjustified. Shapovalov's default was justified, and that was the determination when it was reviewed. The Fritz out call was handled by the rules. With the electronic judging system the Chair Umpire is not allowed to make calls, and when the system makes a mistake the point is supposed to be replayed which is what happened. And with that call last night I can see how easy that was to get wrong. I wish we had an angle from the perspective of the chair umpire because I think that would be really revealing.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 10:39 pm

Side with Kafelnikov.
Iga seems unable to understand that for the players that are not ranked in the top 25, there is a real need to play a lot. You need a lot of tournaments to make ends meet. If you lose in the 2r of a lot of tournaments, you need somewhere else to work next week.

by ti-amie He's still the charmer he always was...

by Owendonovan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2024 2:23 am He's still the charmer he always was...

What an ass.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Wasn't a Japanese player defaulted via points just a week or so ago? He didn't hit anyone. Why is this different especially since he hit someone?

by skatingfan This keeps happening, and yet players keep launching balls out of anger into people - should have been defaulted, and hopefully a fine of sizable proportion incoming.

by ashkor87 'you are only as good as your second serve' is an aphorism as old as the game itself, perhaps.. does the data bear it out?
From the atptour and wtatennis sites:

Men:
best is Sinner, wins 57.1% of his second serve points
Alcaraz is next, at 56.9%
Fritz is third, at 56.2 and Djokovic is right behind at 56.1
Honorable mention to Tsitsipas, at 54.7%

Women:

Swiatek is the champion with 55.3%
Shnaider is second at 51.6
Sabalenka third at 51.1%
Kalinskaya 50.6%
Nobody else above 50%

Rybakina is at 47.3%, of course, she leads the first serve stats with 72.7% points won.

all in all, good performance by the hoary old aphorism!

by ashkor87 Not sure which direction causality runs, though!!

by ponchi101 Yes, it seems circular. If you have a good 2nd serve, you reach a high position. But the only way you can reach a high position is if you play well in all aspects.
Interesting that both #1's are also #1 in that stat.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 She was never bulky. But she looks a bit thinner to me. Or just this video?

by Fastbackss I am surprised Zverev isn't on the 2nd serve list given how much he has improved on it

by ti-amie The Tennis Letter
@TheTennisLetter
Danielle Collins explains why she didn’t want a ceremony or bouquet of flowers after playing her last ever US Open singles match

“I’m not somebody that likes to celebrate my accomplishments. I’ve struggled with feeling guilt around success. I’m not great about having an all about me moment. I’d prefer to do something like that maybe in private. I feel like I’ve gotten enough attention to last a lifetime. I was thinking of that movie Meet the Parents or Meet the Fockers where Gaylord has his shrine and all his 18th place medals. I don’t wanna be like Gaylord so I think I’m good”

by ti-amie Folks we have a winner of our Racquet Toss Contest for 2024! I think she meets all of our criteria.

by ashkor87

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 12:58 pm I am surprised Zverev isn't on the 2nd serve list given how much he has improved on it

Zverev is at 54.5%, not bad at all..

by meganfernandez

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 3:30 am Folks we have a winner of our Racquet Toss Contest for 2024! I think she meets all of our criteria.

This is special. Both standing and sitting... and the double-handed chop at the end is unprecedented, I believe.

by ponchi101 That was downright Shakespeare-esque. Magnificent.
She will never be forgotten

by ti-amie

The Saudi ‘Six Kings’ exhibition is now confirmed to place from October 16th-19th, with the 18th being a day off, as ATP rules don’t allow players to play three consecutive days of exhibitions.

Nadal, Djokovic, Alcaraz, Sinner, Medvedev, and Rune are participating.

The winner is estimated to take home $6 million, more than double the Wimbledon prize money, all players are guaranteed $1.5 million

hoes.jpg

by ti-amie Took me a minute...

by Owendonovan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:42 pm

The Saudi ‘Six Kings’ exhibition is now confirmed to place from October 16th-19th, with the 18th being a day off, as ATP rules don’t allow players to play three consecutive days of exhibitions.

Nadal, Djokovic, Alcaraz, Sinner, Medvedev, and Rune are participating.

The winner is estimated to take home $6 million, more than double the Wimbledon prize money, all players are guaranteed $1.5 million

Do they know how ridiculous they look, even for a minimum of $1.5 million? None of them need the money.

by ptmcmahon Not many people I know wouldn't take 1.5 million to play some exhibition matches.

by ponchi101

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2024 3:50 am Not many people I know wouldn't take 1.5 million to play some exhibition matches.

Granted.
But when two of these men already have over $100 million just in prize money, well...
I already made my opinion known.
But I agree with you. I have never been offered anything remotely close to what they are being offered. I would not know what I would really do.

by Owendonovan It's too WWE for me.

by ti-amie Ons Jabeur @Ons_Jabeur
Muchova is an amazing talented player . She doesn’t have to be a guy to have great serve , volley or movement.
Can we please stop stereotyping based on gender?

Stephanie Myles @OpenCourt
"She plays like a guy.
She wants to play like a guy. The guys have bigger serves than the women, they have better volleys for the most part, they move a little bit better." – Chrissie on Muchova.

by ti-amie

Paula Badosa defends Carlos Alcaraz after his loss at the US Open, ‘He’s just won 2 Slams & a silver medal… Everyone is human’

“I woke up this morning and I read all these negative comments because he lost in the second round... and I thought ‘But he’s just won two Grand Slams and he’s been number one in the world. These criticisms surprise me. Everyone is human, everyone can lose in any round. Reading that makes me feel bad but I know that it is part of the job and that is what it is. He should be congratulated every day.”

by ponchi101 A little bit of perspective. Good.

by Owendonovan I like how athletes are no longer required, nor feel obligated, to apologize for a loss.

by ponchi101 Agree.
But they also have to realize something. It was a boring US Open until last night; you cannot expect the media not to pick up on this story, and start exploiting every angle.
The media needs the story of the day, and yesterday they had one. Sometimes it is simple.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 OK.
Now find her (the USTA must know who she is, it can't be hard) and apologize in person. Heck, take her to a show (or shopping).

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Pam Shriver
@PHShriver
Pro tennis we are crazy to have some our most important matches being played in the middle of the night.
@usopen starts on Ashe Stadium at 12pm plus takes too long between sessions. Let’s trade 12am-2am match times for 10am-12pm tennis on Ashe. Let’s study how to speed up matches

Martina Navratilova
@Martina

Agreed

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Reads to me that Qinwen didn't treat her as if she is the Queen Dowager (If you watch Asian dramas specifically Chinese dramas you know what I mean

)

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I hate Monday's after slams...

by ti-amie Wait it's not a marital aid...

by ponchi101 It IS a marital aid.
For porcupines...

by ashkor87 saw an interview with Pegula's coach somewhere (cant remember where) - apparently, they have been working with her on depth, even at the risk of overhitting it long - better than a short return the opponent can pounce on. I did think she was hitting the ball very deep at this USO - that is good thinking.. somewhat like Gilbert telling Coco it is better to serve double faults than to serve attackable second serves. It is working for Pegula, perhaps not so much for Coco, but I like the thinking. Hope she keeps up with it.

by ponchi101 I don't mind hitting long as much as I mind hitting short. If I hit a passing shot and it flies long, there is always the possibility that my opponent will try to volley it, and the point is still alive. Hit it into the net, and it was doomed from the beginning.
The same for double faults. Much better to hit them long that short. Short means you did not go for it, especially in DF's. Long meant you put too much sauce, which I can live with.
Agree with Pegula's coach.

Regarding Coco. The problem is that the number is so high that the logic does not work. If you are hitting 19 DF's per two sets, it is better to get a weak serve in because the returner will at least miss a few.
Remember that Lendl was the one that started that logic. But Lendl was talking 3-4 DF's; his second serve was reliable.

by skatingfan

by Fastbackss

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 7:26 pm I don't mind hitting long as much as I mind hitting short. If I hit a passing shot and it flies long, there is always the possibility that my opponent will try to volley it, and the point is still alive. Hit it into the net, and it was doomed from the beginning.
The same for double faults. Much better to hit them long that short. Short means you did not go for it, especially in DF's. Long meant you put too much sauce, which I can live with.
Agree with Pegula's coach.

Regarding Coco. The problem is that the number is so high that the logic does not work. If you are hitting 19 DF's per two sets, it is better to get a weak serve in because the returner will at least miss a few.
Remember that Lendl was the one that started that logic. But Lendl was talking 3-4 DF's; his second serve was reliable.

I essentially listen to 4 tennis podcasts with regularity. Three of them have touched on this subject.
Roddick says Pegula hits the ball very flat and "through" the court.

Jonathan Stokke (baseline intelligence) was on Doubles Only (ironically) and gave his "Stokke 6" - which are the errors to work out of your game. (His point being the recreational player can gain way more from removing errors first). He mainly talks about never hitting it wide - because the court is so wide. Means your target needs to be shifted more center. He talks about double faults, but spends some time talking about short balls. Hitting long is not one of his errors, for the reasons you said.

by ti-amie

skatingfan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2024 3:48 am

I...

I have read that Benoit has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol...

by skatingfan

by ti-amie

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2024 10:56 pm

Another angle on this court.

by Owendonovan

skatingfan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2024 3:48 am

Benoit seems to have a sense of humor about it.........

by Fastbackss That angle of the Texas court is cool but no angle could make it compete with Mallorca one posted

by ponchi101

skatingfan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2024 11:43 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2024 10:56 pm
Another angle on this court.

That court will need re-surfacing frequently.
Doesn't matter how sturdy those foundations are, the court will move. And the surface will crack.
We had a few like that at my club in Caracas. The wind shook the structure, and as I said above.
Other than that: pretty cool court.

by ti-amie

I see Mallorca and raise you Lake Como

by skatingfan Those bushes aren't really that large - they're just full of tennis balls.

by ti-amie

skatingfan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2024 10:23 pm Those bushes aren't really that large - they're just full of tennis balls.

by ti-amie MEH?

by ti-amie TurboKozak
@BartekIgnacik
KSU ARENA będzie gościć 8 najlepszych tenisistek 2024 roku!!!
To w tej uniwersyteckiej hali od 2 do 9 listopada zostanie rozegrany turniej Masters.
@WTAFinalsRiyadh
Translated from Polish by Google
KSU ARENA will host the 8 best tennis players of 2024!!!
It is in this university hall that the Masters tournament will be played from November 2 to 9.
@WTAFinalsRiyadh

by ashkor87 Is it my imagination or are there suddenly more sisters playing ? There were always Williams and Pliskova but now Kudermetova, Fruhrvirtova and Andreeva...probably more I am missing .the X Wangs are not related .

by ponchi101 You are missing: The Bondarenkos and the Maleevas.
I don't think there are more. There are always like two or three groups of siblings around the same time. More surprising is that this does not happen so frequently in the ATP.
(The McEnroe's, the Bryan's, and Federico Coria is having a small run now. Let's see when will Alcaraz' brother comes in. Rumors are that he is really good).

by mick1303 Zverevs, Gulliksons, Gottfrieds, Mayottes, Panattas, Costas, Sanchezes (Emilio, Javier and also Arantha), Mayers (Gene and Sandy), Amritrajes (3 brothers), Pasarells, Lapenttis

by atlpam

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 2:13 pm You are missing: The Bondarenkos and the Maleevas.
I don't think there are more. There are always like two or three groups of siblings around the same time. More surprising is that this does not happen so frequently in the ATP.
(The McEnroe's, the Bryan's, and Federico Coria is having a small run now. Let's see when will Alcaraz' brother comes in. Rumors are that he is really good).

Also the Radwanskas

by Suliso Don't forget Marat and Dinara.

by ponchi101 I love when our collective memory kicks in

So much for my I DON'T THINK THERE ARE NO MORE

by mick1303 Also Black brother from Zimbabwe and their sister Cara. Andy & Jamie Murray. Melzer brothers. Cerundolos.

by ashkor87 Hardly any brothers nowadays though..who are both, say, top 100..Sir Andy is already retired...only Zverevs, Djokovics and Tsitsipas'..

by atlpam Ryan and Christian Harrison were touted as prospects at one time.

by ti-amie

by Owendonovan The Asian swing feels like filler to me.

by ashkor87

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 3:03 am The Asian swing feels like filler to me.

Presumably you don't live in Asia?

by Owendonovan

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 4:05 am
Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 3:03 am The Asian swing feels like filler to me.
Presumably you don't live in Asia?

I don't. I've just never been able to shake the feeling of the season being over after the USO. I supposed with summer ending in the Northern hemisphere as well, it feels a little hard wired in me.

by ponchi101 A lot of players are able to make the payments on their BMW's thanks to the Asian tour.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 3:41 pm A lot of players are able to make the payments on their BMW's thanks to the Asian tour.

And many people get to see tennis live (now that DC is dead, we don't get too many opportunities in Asia)

by ponchi101 Even though I had been coming to Buenos Aires since 1998, I had never played tennis here. That changed on Friday, when I was invited for a quick hit in a mixed doubles.
It was fun. But it was also a peek into why Argentina and so many of our countries here are no longer producing top players like before.
The courts I went to play have to be some of the worst courts I have ever played on. Red clay and it had rained the day before, but you could see that the maintenance on them was terrible. Some of the lines were so covered by clay that even scraping them with your shoes did not take the clay off. The net was sagging so I don't know if it was of the proper height. One pro was on the court next to ours, with a group of 4 kids, throwing balls at them that were almost without a felt. Of course, the four courts had no separation between them so you are constantly fetching balls from other courts (and they are fetching yours). I could tell that the lights were very poor so training at night would be difficult. All in all, a very poor training facility.
The courts I play on, in Colombia, are Phillip Chatrier in comparison. And these courts were located in a nice part of town. So, in theory, these people should have the means.
If it is so in Buenos Aires, the capital, I wonder how many more courts like this are around the country.
Also. I know it is one of my peeves, but I have always felt that playing or training with bad balls is one of the worst things you can do. You get used to balls that do not bounce like they are meant to, and I wonder if later on, when you switch to good balls, you are so used to the bad ones that your game takes too long to adjust. If ever.
It is a sport for the middle class in Europe. But, in S. America, it is a sport for the rich.

by ashkor87 Clay courts are notoriously hard to maintain...takes too much diligence which is in short supply..in India, most clubs have switched to hard courts for that reason..which is terrible for knees...I agree about balls..we open new cans every 3 days and give the used balls almost free to the coach who teaches kids (who knows how many times he reuses them!,)

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2024 3:05 pm Clay courts are notoriously hard to maintain...takes too much diligence which is in short supply..in India, most clubs have switched to hard courts for that reason..which is terrible for knees...I agree about balls..we open new cans every 3 days and give the used balls almost free to the coach who teaches kids (who knows how many times he reuses them!,)

Agree, agree and agree. Clay courts are very hard on the knees of us old folks and are difficult to maintain (more than hards), but then, why lay them down in the first place? Plus, the court I was playing on made it difficult to slide on.
About balls. I buy two boxes of pressure-less balls, which will serve me for 4 sessions of training. After that, I give them to the ball boys and my trainer.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Tennis Legend @TennisLegende

La qualité de frappe monstrueuse en coup droit de Thanasi Kokkinakis avant de lâcher une énorme marmite lors d'un entraînement contre Nick Kyrgios au tournoi de Tokyo 2022.

Au-delà de la qualité de frappe, la vidéo est super intéressante pour se rendre compte de la marge prise par les pros avec le filet. Les balles passent toutes minimum un mètre au-dessus du filet.

IG/the_kokk1 |
@TKokkinakis
Translated from French by

Thanasi Kokkinakis' monstrous forehand shot quality before dropping a huge pot during a practice against Nick Kyrgios at the Tokyo 2022 tournament.

Beyond the quality of the strike, the video is super interesting to see the margin taken by the pros with the net. The balls all pass at least one meter above the net.

Stephanie Myles
@OpenCourt

Right there is one *secret* to WHY matches and rallies are so long and bodies are breaking: the new sticks (and mostly) string types make it SO much easier NOT to miss. Every shot – even that one– is safer.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2024 12:41 am ...

Stephanie Myles
@OpenCourt

Right there is one *secret* to WHY matches and rallies are so long and bodies are breaking: the new sticks (and mostly) string types make it SO much easier NOT to miss. Every shot – even that one– is safer.

I said that. The courts are too slow, and the strings make it much easier to keep the ball in.
Since you can't change the dimensions of the court, you can only speed them up.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2024 11:55 pm

No. No. No. Courts without separation. It drives me crazy. The whole point of tennis is hitting balls with angles. And, if you can do so, the ball ends up three courts away when you have no separation.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 Who is M. Navone? he is leading the tour in service return! never heard of him.. does anyone know?

by skatingfan

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 7:11 am Who is M. Navone? he is leading the tour in service return! never heard of him.. does anyone know?

Young Argentine - clay courter - top 40 player.

https://www.atptour.com/en/players/mari ... s/overview

by ashkor87 Must find a video or two...is he leading service returners because his return is something special or is the dataset weighted towards clay, where everyone would have good numbers on returning...

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Serious here. How will they handle the time for prayers? I understand that in S. Arabia, when the call for prayers comes, everything stops.
They will have to plan the matches around that.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

I agree with him.

by skatingfan I disagree. Plenty of talented players succeed, and many of them were not hard working.

by ponchi101

skatingfan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 10:33 pm I disagree. Plenty of talented players succeed, and many of them were not hard working.

Xavier Malisse.
Marcelo Rios.
Nick. Kyrgios.
Alexander Bublik.
Yannik Noah (no, he did NOT spend the time on court).
I am certainly missing many more.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 12:16 am
skatingfan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 10:33 pm I disagree. Plenty of talented players succeed, and many of them were not hard working.
Xavier Malisse.
Marcelo Rios.
Nick. Kyrgios.
Alexander Bublik.
Yannik Noah (no, he did NOT spend the time on court).
I am certainly missing many more.

John McEnroe hardly ever practiced..

by ti-amie Can I argue that the game was different back when JMac et al were playing? The man not on the list, Ivan Lendl, changed all of the "I just show up and play tennis" attitudes in the men's game.

by skatingfan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 1:12 am Can I argue that the game was different back when JMac et al were playing? The man not on the list, Ivan Lendl, changed all of the "I just show up and play tennis" attitudes in the men's game.

I think it also depends on how you define success in the game - if the standard is Serena & Novak, well then you need talent, and hard work.

by nelslus McEnroe also played and won a ton of doubles matches. He was clear at the time that doubles was all the practice that he needed for his singles.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 1:12 am Can I argue that the game was different back when JMac et al were playing? The man not on the list, Ivan Lendl, changed all of the "I just show up and play tennis" attitudes in the men's game.

Totally agree. The reason he is the most unheralded tennis figure in all of tennis history, to me. He changed the entire way people had to train in order to be successful.
However.
I would never even dare to say that Lendl was not talented. He did not have the talent that Mac had at the net (who did?) but he had amazing touch. I remember seeing hit a serve long and when the opponent hit it back (the call was underway) it went straight back at Lendl. He "caught" the ball out of the air, in that sweeping motion of letting the ball just land on your strings, as if nothing. The cloud erupted clapping (it was as soft as it could be done) and didn't even acknowledged that. He got ready for his second serve. He was a superior athlete, his foot work and stamina were off the scale, and his power was not easy to imitate. He was superbly talented.
Nobody gets to play at the ATP level without massive talent. And nobody gets to play at the top level without having one or both the items mentioned here. What has happened is that nobody gets to the top 10 without having both. And to get to #1, you need both in copious amounts. It is not difficult to see.
But, of course, Moratogliuo is trying to sell the idea that it is all hard work, because that is what he can bring to the table. He is trying to say that coaches matter a lot.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Doubles stars Ram & Salisbury Split
The doubles team won three consecutive US Open titles from 2021-2023
September 26, 2024

Corinne Dubreuil

One of the best doubles teams of this generation, Rajeev Ram and Joe Salisbury, announced their split on social media this week following a successful six-year partnership.

“Six years is a long time in the life of a professional tennis player,” Ram wrote on Instagram. “Joe and I had some amazing wins, some epic matches and moments, and some gut wrenching losses.”

“We played together for six years, but we made memories and friends for a lifetime... and for that I’m truly grateful."

In their six-year partnership, the duo was one of the most successful doubles teams on the ATP Tour, winning four major trophies together. After hoisting their maiden Grand Slam title at the 2020 Australian Open, the pair found dominance at the US Open, where they won three straight titles from 2021-2023.

Aside from their success in major tournaments, Ram and Salisbury also won back-to-back titles at the Nitto ATP Finals in 2022 and 2023. In October 2022, Ram, then 38 years old, made history when he became the oldest first-time World No. 1 in PIF ATP Doubles Rankings history. Salisbury also reached World No. 1 in April 2022.

“I really enjoyed our six years playing together,” Salisbury told ATPTour.com. “We had some great success, more than we anticipated or thought that we would do. We are really proud of everything we’ve done together. We have worked really hard and got the best out of each other.”

“We have loved every minute of it, even the ups and downs,” Salisbury said. “We have had a lot of tough times to come through and achieve the highs that we have had. We are proud of everything we have done and grateful to have had this amazing partnership.”

Ram is competing this week at the China Open in Beijing alongside Austin Krajicek, with whom he won the silver medal at the Paris Olympics earlier this year. Salisbury is not in action this week.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/ram-sal ... 0Instagram.

by skatingfan Someone needs to check on nelsus.

by ti-amie

by nelslus

skatingfan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 9:23 pm Someone needs to check on nelsus.

LOL, I knew this was coming. Before last year's US Open, I thought they were going to quit. TBH, I am just somewhat startled that they didn't at least keep playing this year to try to qualify for the end of year championships. They are both gonna lose a ton of points. I do find it kind of sad that too many doubles players don't try to stick it out a bit longer. Lulls are gonna happen with any doubles team. BUT, Rajeev is ancient, and Joe ain't getting any younger, so....

PS: The NAME is nelslus.

by atlpam

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 11:50 pm

My old neighborhood’s courts looked very similar. This is pretty typical of an Atlanta swim/tennis neighborhood.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 WTF is Sinner wearing?
And weren't two of these players recently complaining that the season is too long, and that the ATP was going to kill them?

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:48 pm WTF is Sinner wearing?
And weren't two of these players recently complaining that the season is too long, and that the ATP was going to kill them?

I think this is all CGI, so probably never had the outfit on.

by ti-amie Sunday Tennis Court Porn

by ti-amie Will the WTA hold its YEC here? (Sorry just kidding but the site they used last year wasn't much better than this)

by Owendonovan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:11 pm

by ashkor87 I was wondering why I find Shanghai and Wuhan to be odd ..it is because very few tournaments these days, at the 1000 level, are exclusively Men's or Women's...it is an interesting convergence...
Exceptions are few - Monte Carlo, Guadalajara, Paris...?

by ashkor87 Sorry, forgot that Guadalajara isn't a 1000 level any more...

by skatingfan

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 6:20 am Sorry, forgot that Guadalajara isn't a 1000 level any more...

Doha & Dubai for the WTA.

by ashkor87 The AtP does have Dubai and Doha, not 1000 level

by ashkor87 Muchova is the Federer of the WTA..beautiful to watch, movement, footwork...complete player..except for the detail about the backhand...

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 8:44 am Muchova is the Federer of the WTA..beautiful to watch, movement, footwork...complete player..except for the detail about the backhand...

Which is?
Sure, she hits it two handed, but her slice BH is currently the best and it could be an all time great shot (we have to give her a bit more time).

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 10:42 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 8:44 am Muchova is the Federer of the WTA..beautiful to watch, movement, footwork...complete player..except for the detail about the backhand...
I
Which is?
Sure, she hits it two handed, but her slice BH is currently the best and it could be an all time great shot (we have to give her a bit more time).

Yes, the fact that her backhand is normally 2 handed.

by Suliso

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 8:44 am Muchova is the Federer of the WTA..beautiful to watch, movement, footwork...complete player..except for the detail about the backhand...

You mean Federer who doesn't win much?

by ti-amie

by JTContinental I have played on these courts

by ponchi101 Lovely setting

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 That is lovely.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 That's impossible to belief. And that Wawrinka didn't notice, even more.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Beautiful. But without wind tarps, it must be difficult to play next to a lake.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Oh, that one takes the prize. Sure, no lobs possible, but what a gorgeous court.

by JTContinental Muguruza got married over the weekend.

by ponchi101 Somebody posted a picture of the ceremony. I think in the OFF COURT topic.

by ti-amie

Is Qinwen going to be the bad b***h of the WTA?

by ponchi101 I am not able to listen to the conversation well. But it seems to me that Qinwen is simply telling them not to talk while they are playing the point.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 11:32 pm I am not able to listen to the conversation well. But it seems to me that Qinwen is simply telling them not to talk while they are playing the point.

That was my impression as well. Leylah-Annie took exception to QZ talking back to her box and the chair told Qinwen to involve her if something happened again.

Qinwen has some attitude though. Never takes a step back.

by ponchi101 Which is something to be lauded, not questioned. Your opponent's box is chatting non-stop and you tell them to shut up? I see no issues with that. It is not as if you are out there to make them your friends. They are rooting against you, after all.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I am missing a court so much...

by ti-amie

by dryrunguy And it was turning out to be such a nice day...

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 And the variety too.

I think that is a good balance.

by ponchi101

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2024 7:52 pm

So, now, at age 29, he decides a Slam is his target.
Because... most other players focus on a 500? The Chichicastenango Open? Winning as many Challengers as you can?
In my book, the one guy that had the tools to challenge R/R/N. And simply didn't want to.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 1:26 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2024 7:52 pm
So, now, at age 29, he decides a Slam is his target.
Because... most other players focus on a 500? The Chichicastenango Open? Winning as many Challengers as you can?
In my book, the one guy that had the tools to challenge R/R/N. And simply didn't want to.

Agreed.

To be fair he did/does have mental health issues...

by ponchi101 Found this:
Following Sinner’s Shanghai triumph, a journalist on the Sans Filet tennis talk show labelled Sinner “the new Djokovic” and claimed the Italian is “an improved version” because he is “more impactful and more aggressive.”

In response to a clip from the show on X, (Marion) Bartoli laughed in incredulity at the assertion that Sinner is a better version of Djokovic.

“What? Djokovic’s improved version? LOL (followed by a laughing emoji). It’s still incredible, this culture of the moment,” the former world No 7 wrote.
--o---
Thank you, Marion. Let's get together and talk about short term memories.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I really don't know what to say.
OTOH, it is just 6 millionaires having fun and making more money. On the other, it is still S. Arabia.
Again, I have never been offered not even 6MM Colombian pesos ($1500). I would not know what to say if offered $6mm.

by ti-amie

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 11:06 pm I really don't know what to say.
OTOH, it is just 6 MULTI millionaires having fun and making more money. On the other, it is still S. Arabia.
Again, I have never been offered not even 6MM Colombian pesos ($1500). I would not know what to say if offered $6mm.

Fixed that for ya!

And it is still KSA and they're living in a specially created space for people like them to be able to say they didn't see any signs of the strict fundamentalism that rules the people who really live there.

by ponchi101 I know. That is the reason I don't know what to say.
Especially Rafa and Nole. Don't tell me you need the cash. But... I have never been offered $6MM

by skatingfan When you have more money than taste I believe is how the saying goes.

by Owendonovan Something in me is embarrassed for them.

by JTContinental Danielle Collins has decided to play in 2025, after her family planning has taken a hit due to recent health problems related to her endometriosis

by ti-amie

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2024 1:20 pm Something in me is embarrassed for them.

If you want to really be embarrassed for them...

by ponchi101

JTContinental wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:47 pm Danielle Collins has decided to play in 2025, after her family planning has taken a hit due to recent health problems related to her endometriosis

A bit cryptic in that she does not say if the journey is going well (she will be able to have children) or the opposite.
Hope it is the first.

by mick1303

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 11:06 pm I really don't know what to say.
OTOH, it is just 6 millionaires having fun and making more money. On the other, it is still S. Arabia.
Again, I have never been offered not even 6MM Colombian pesos ($1500). I would not know what to say if offered $6mm.

Judging by the intensity of the final match, the amount of money at stake made them play seriously. This is an outlier in the exhibitions. Maybe even shall be counted towards H2H. I think the organizers should've separated other results with different prizes as well, not just give everybody else but winner the same prize. That would've make for a more meaningful quarters and semis.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 I wanna play!!!!!

(Lovely court)

by mmmm8 Looks like a new No.1 for Uruguay is coming (just kidding... maybe. Current URU No.1 is ranked 365th)

Ex-Man United forward Diego Forlán to make pro tennis debut

Former Manchester United forward Diego Forlán is set to make his ATP debut in the doubles competition at the Uruguay Open next month.

The former Uruguay international will play alongside Argentinian Federico Coria, ranked 101 in the ATP singles.

The tournament, which is part of the ATP Challenger Tour, the second-highest tier of tennis competition, will take place from Nov. 11 until Nov. 17 in the country's capital, Montevideo.

Uruguay Open tournament director Diego López confirmed that Forlán has accepted an invitation to play in the tournament.

"I have his confirmation that he wants to play, he has been preparing for some time, training a lot in tennis," he said. I think he deserves this opportunity and give him this mutual satisfaction. Of course I'm talking about our beloved Diego Forlán."

Forlán, 45, retired from football in August 2019 having played also played for Villarreal, Atlético Madrid and Inter Milan.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/ ... nnis-debut

by ponchi101 I thought he was going to play with GUILLERMO Coria.
I guess Federico needs the points.
Side thought. Nature is cruel. Of course, Guillermo is the better player. But Federico is taller and bigger. If you had had Guillermo in Federico's body, who knows what kind of player you could have had. Guillermo needed those extra 8 cms.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Yes. Grigor. I know, I know, I know. I have been schooled by better analyzers of the game. But I still wonder how come he has not even made a slam final, with that game.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2024 12:58 pm Yes. Grigor. I know, I know, I know. I have been schooled by better analyzers of the game. But I still wonder how come he has not even made a slam final, with that game.

mental strength? heart? competitive spirit? Sharapova?

by ashkor87 The (almost year-end stats on the wta site) show Andreeva is the best returner of first serves, with a win rate of 42.3%, Coco at 41.8% and Swiatek at 41.2% are right behind her..On second serve returns, Swiatek and Vika lead at 59.6%, Coco is at 59.4%, not far behind.. I always thought very highly of Azarenka as a punisher of weak serves (see her against Ostapenko for instance), and the stats bear this out.

by ashkor87 on the men's side, Tommy Paul leads on first serve return at 34.3%, with DeMinaur close behind at 34/2%.. Navone is at 34% (never seen him!)
on second serve, DeMinaur leads at 55.8%, Sinner second at 55.1%
interesting that DeMinaur is so good at returns, in addition to being the quickest player.. I wonder if they are related.. Paul is high too.. and he is pretty quick as well..

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

OUCH

by ponchi101 Good for Stan

by ashkor87

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 5:36 pm on the men's side, Tommy Paul leads on first serve return at 34.3%, with DeMinaur close behind at 34/2%.. Navone is at 34% (never seen him!)
on second serve, DeMinaur leads at 55.8%, Sinner second at 55.1%
interesting that DeMinaur is so good at returns, in addition to being the quickest player.. I wonder if they are related.. Paul is high too.. and he is pretty quick as well..

One hypothesis is- what we see as quickness really starts with anticipation and seeing the ball early- which is what it takes to return big serves ..so it is not surprising that they are correlated..

by ponchi101 Agree on Deminaur's speed. he is super fast, in that we can all agree. But his ZERO to TOP SPEED time is minimal. He reacts super quickly.
I think the two fastest guys on the tour are him and Alcaraz. And I will give the nod to Deminaur. On a short, 10 mts dash, he will beat Carlos.
If he only had one solid weapon...

by Owendonovan

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 5:30 pm The (almost year-end stats on the wta site) show Andreeva is the best returner of first serves, with a win rate of 42.3%, Coco at 41.8% and Swiatek at 41.2% are right behind her..On second serve returns, Swiatek and Vika lead at 59.6%, Coco is at 59.4%, not far behind.. I always thought very highly of Azarenka as a punisher of weak serves (see her against Ostapenko for instance), and the stats bear this out.

Yes, she learned that from watching Serena consistently demolish her second serves.

by ti-amie Thank you Carlos.

by ponchi101

"Yes, I have a price. Steep, but I have a price. And since this was not illegal..."

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

Another failed test?

by dryrunguy

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:16 pm

I wasn't aware Youzhny had joined his team...

by ponchi101

dryrunguy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:02 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:16 pm ..
I wasn't aware Youzhny had joined his team...

by ti-amie

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:31 pm

Another failed test?

by Owendonovan

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:16 pm

I wonder how much being against the war and not being able to express that weighs on some of these Russian players. More heavily on some it seems.

by ponchi101 Andrey had meltdowns like this before the war. But your point is valid, especially since has was the sole player that voice a mild opinion.

by ti-amie Owen has a point. This particular meltdown is really disturbing though. If pressure is being put on him and his family how does he reverse what he has already said? If it's pressure he's put on himself it would be a good idea to take a complete break from tennis, no practices, nothing, and relax on a beach somewhere.

by mmmm8

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 2:39 pm
I wonder how much being against the war and not being able to express that weighs on some of these Russian players. More heavily on some it seems.

It's not just being able to say things, or just the war itself. What's happening, not only in Ukraine but in Russia domestically is very hard to watch for me as a Russian, and I don't have to go out there representing the country day in and day out like they do. I doubt that's the primary factor for his meltdown(s) - he's got to be frustrated by lagging behind Medvedev, etc., and now being stepped over by younger guys with his chances slipping away. But I'm sure the macro stuff does weigh a lot on the underlying mental health.

by meganfernandez

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 3:58 pm Andrey had meltdowns like this before the war. But your point is valid, especially since has was the sole player that voice a mild opinion.

Where do we stand on the tour penalizing this kind of self-harm? Wertheim floated the idea of considering it "harm," which is in the rulebook. My instinct is to wildly disagree. The tour can do something off court but I don't think they can police what anyone does with their body (or mind) in a match. It's a slippery slope from that to expressing self-destructive thoughts, like yelling at oneself. Freedom has to trump the optics here. There are other options before they resort to penalizing anyone for what they do to their own body.

Or, could they say you can't strike yourself with your racket, except to knock something off your shoe? So if someone swipes their racket through the air in frustration and knicks their calf, is it a warning? If they smack their strings with an open palm, like an angry racket-clap, is that a violation? I don't want to go down this road.

This is also one player. It's not a pattern. Deal with it off court.

by ponchi101 Why would you penalize somebody for that? I agree, makes no sense.
Hey, charge him for the band-aids. That should be the extent of it.

by Fastbackss Playing devil's advocate here...

One could make an argument that it reflects poorly on the game, not a good look towards kids, etc.

I am sure there is some catch-all language under which he could be fined.

by ponchi101 But if was a knee jerk reaction...

by mmmm8 I think it's fine to place a fine in the same way that racquet breaking or verbal abuse get a fine. It does reflect poorly on the game.

I don't think there should be point penalties for the reasons Megan mentioned.

by ashkor87 since I am ignoring the Riyadh event, I am looking forward to the next year now..
Things I am looking forward to: the return of Bencic, the flowering of Andreeva and Noskova into complete, seasoned champions, the evolution of Sabalenka to a dominant champion (grand slam is a definite possibility!), the return of Rybakina, the continuing return of Muchova..
On the men's side, it is a bit early still but the one player I am looking out for is Machac - he seems to have the ability to challenge the big 2..

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 3:22 am since I am ignoring the Riyadh event, I am looking forward to the next year now..
Things I am looking forward to: the return of Bencic, the flowering of Andreeva and Noskova into complete, seasoned champions, the evolution of Sabalenka to a dominant champion (grand slam is a definite possibility!), the return of Rybakina, the continuing return of Muchova..
On the men's side, it is a bit early still but the one player I am looking out for is Machac - he seems to have the ability to challenge the big 2..

The chance of anybody in the WTA (or the ATP) to complete a grand slam are in the 0 point several decimals percentage. Iga remains a high probability at RG, but a low probability at W. So, she takes that one and none other.
Bencic will return to the middle of the pack. She was not dominant before and, as Naomi has shown, coming back from motherhood is a titanic feat. Clijsters and Serena were exceptions, not rules. Look also at Svitolina.

by ashkor87 I think Sabalenka has a nonzero chance- her game has worked well on all surfaces..she is the only one who has that quality right now. Doesn't follow that she will do it but she has the game. nobody else does.

by ashkor87 I don't think Bencic will get to the top either but it will be good to have her back..her style is sort of unique..Svtolina is actually better now than she was before motherhood- she was never Tier 1 in my book but she is slightly better than she was..hits the ball harder, with more freedom, than before.

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 1:50 pm I think Sabalenka has a nonzero chance- her game has worked well on all surfaces..she is the only one who has that quality right now. Doesn't follow that she will do it but she has the game. nobody else does.

Agree. I I were forced to put $100 on any player that could do it, she is it.
But in the modern WTA, a grand slam is almost impossible to fathom.

by ti-amie The Tennis Letter
@TheTennisLetter

Qinwen Zheng tries to keep her distance from the other women on tour because it would be difficult for her to compete against a friend, ‘I decided don't try to make a friend on tour because there's so many people outside of the tennis world.. I come here to compete with them, to win the match’

“Do you have amongst the players good friends? Do you prefer to keep your distance because they're your rivals?”

Qinwen: “My answer is very clear: I prefer always to keep the distance with the player. Has a lot of competition with me. I am, like, the sensitive type with my heart. I don't feel if I become friends with someone and I have to compete with them on court, I feel I'm not able to 100% focus and fight. When I have to scream, ‘C'mon,’ I'm not able to do that because I will feel a bit weird. In my heart, I feel if it's a friend, I really want she win or she feels good in her life. This is the opposite side of a tennis tournament. Once I figure out that, I decided don't try to make a friend on tour because there's so many people outside of the tennis world. Why I have to just make friends here? I come here to compete with them, to win the match.
Yeah, that's my opinion (smiling).”

“How have you been with the other seven players here over the last few days?”

Qinwen: “We are just saying hello. Sometimes say congrats to your great season. No more talk with no more people. I never go for more. I don't try to go for more, as well, yeah.”

(via WTA Finals Riyadh Press)

by ponchi101 Fair enough.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Wow. How can you play there? I would be looking at that mountain all the time.

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 10:30 am Wow. How can you play there? I would be looking at that mountain all the time.

No you wouldn't - you're a tennis fan, and as soon as someone started hitting that yellow ball around your eyes would be following the ball.

by Suliso Lake Como - the prettiest large lake I've been to.

by ponchi101

skatingfan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 10:36 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 10:30 am Wow. How can you play there? I would be looking at that mountain all the time.
No you wouldn't - you're a tennis fan, and as soon as someone started hitting that yellow ball around your eyes would be following the ball.

Thanks for the compliment

. But one of the hardest things for me is concentrating on "keep your eyes on the ball".

by ti-amie WTA announces 2025 Hologic WTA Tour calendar

The WTA on Thursday announced the 2025 Hologic WTA Tour calendar, featuring over 50 tournaments across 26 countries and regions, providing the tour’s athletes with multiple opportunities to earn valuable points toward the WTA Rankings.

The 2025 season will mark the second full year of the revised calendar structure, which was introduced to better showcase the top athletes playing the top events and support sustainable long-term growth for players, tournaments and all stakeholders in the sport.

Key changes to the 2025 calendar include:

The WTA 500 in Eastbourne, UK will change location to The Queen’s Club, London and take place the week of June 9, in the first week of the grass season.

The Nottingham WTA 250 event, also in the UK, moves one week later to the second week of the grass court season, the week of June 16

A WTA 250 will run in Eastbourne the week of June 23, Week 3 of the grass season, combined with an ATP 250. The WTA 500 in Bad Homburg, Germany remains in the third week of the grass season, alongside Eastbourne

WTA 1000 events of The National Bank Open presented by Rogers (Montreal) and the Cincinnati Open will expand to become 12-day tournaments, taking place over three weeks in the summer.
“The 2025 calendar offers a clear and exciting narrative for our 1 billion global fan base to follow this incredible sport,” said Steve Simon, WTA Chairman and CEO. “We strive to create the best possible experience for everyone involved in women’s tennis, and from our first tournaments in Australia through to the WTA Finals Riyadh, it’s going to be another captivating season on the Hologic WTA Tour in 2025.”

2025 marks the 52nd year since the WTA was founded by Billie Jean King in 1973, uniting all of women’s professional tennis under one elite tour. Since then, the Hologic WTA Tour has grown to more than 1,600 athletes and $212 million in prize money at events around the globe.

https://www.wtatennis.com/news/4009675/ ... s%20season.

Major changes:

Omnium Banque Nationale présenté par Rogers
MONTREAL, CANADA
Jul 27 - Aug 7, 2025 (Sunday - Thursday)

Cincinnati Open
CINCINNATI, OH, UNITED STATES
Aug 7 - Aug 18, 2025 (Thursday - Monday)

Abierto GNP Seguros 2025
MONTERREY, MEXICO
Aug 18 - Aug 23, 2025

Tennis in the Land
CLEVELAND, OH, UNITED STATES
Aug 18 - Aug 23, 2025

US Open
NEW YORK, NY, UNITED STATES
Aug 25 - Sep 7, 2025

by mmmm8 The women's final in Canada will be on a Thursday? Oof

by ponchi101 That is dumb.
And no day off in between the tournaments.

by ashkor87 The Canadian tournament has always been disrupted by rain..maybe scheduling it this way keeps the buffer at the end, which is what Theory of Constraints tells us to do ..so it could be good.

by ashkor87 The fact that Alcaraz does better at W than at the USO, Krejcikova, Muguruza and Halep all won both the French and Wimbledon but never the USO..suggests - it is time to think of W as a slow court, and USO as an outlier...?

by ptmcmahon

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 4:37 pm The Canadian tournament has always been disrupted by rain..maybe scheduling it this way keeps the buffer at the end, which is what Theory of Constraints tells us to do ..so it could be good.

I'm $ure there mu$t be $ome other rea$on for it

Although I can't picture how a Thursday final would be better money wise, but I'm sure the reason wasn't just to give a buffer in case of rain. Must be something else we don't know.

by ashkor87 I am sure this is not the reason but it could work out anyway

by skatingfan

ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 4:43 am I'm $ure there mu$t be $ome other rea$on for it

Although I can't picture how a Thursday final would be better money wise, but I'm sure the reason wasn't just to give a buffer in case of rain. Must be something else we don't know.

All the singles matches from the quarterfinals on will be played in the evening.

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:42 am The fact that Alcaraz does better at W than at the USO, Krejcikova, Muguruza and Halep all won both the French and Wimbledon but never the USO..suggests - it is time to think of W as a slow court, and USO as an outlier...?

Agree. They slowed it down too much. The reason S&V tennis is gone.

by skatingfan

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 2:51 pm Agree. They slowed it down too much. The reason S&V tennis is gone.

Not just the courts - also the racquets, and the strings aren't conducive to serve & volley. But even before that top players were winning without serve & volley, and coaches around the world copied the style, and baseline consistency has become the prototype of how to coach a young player.

by ashkor87 there was a time when I noted Coco had never won anything bigger than a 250 level event. Now she has won at least one at every level! awesome indeed..

by ashkor87

skatingfan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 6:09 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 2:51 pm Agree. They slowed it down too much. The reason S&V tennis is gone.
Not just the courts - also the racquets, and the strings aren't conducive to serve & volley. But even before that top players were winning without serve & volley, and coaches around the world copied the style, and baseline consistency has become the prototype of how to coach a young player.

may not be serve and volley but players like Muchova and even Alcaraz are showing us that volleying still works. so I dont think the day of the volleyer is gone. Yet.

by skatingfan

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 11:25 am may not be serve and volley but players like Muchova and even Alcaraz are showing us that volleying still works. so I dont think the day of the volleyer is gone. Yet.

The exceptions, not the rules - more players play like Rublev than either Muchova or Alcaraz - most players are not that talented.

by ti-amie

by Fastbackss On 60 minutes last night they had a piece for which a portion of it took place in Miami.

They did a drone shot of some ritzy apartments and as they panned out some beautiful tennis courts were shown. I immediately thought of this series of court pictures

by ashkor87 Now that 2024 is done, at least for the women, some things to reflect on:
1. who impressed you the most as someone who is gearing up for great deeds in 2025? Zheng? Navarro? Noskova? Andreeva?
2. who has been the most disappointing in 2024?
3. who surprised you the most this year, positively? Andreeva? Coco? Sabalenka?Paolini?
4. whose return are you looking forward to the most? Bencic? Kvitova?
5. whose performance has puzzled you the most? Swiatek? Garcia?
6. what was the most positive event of the year?
7. the most depressing? I would say the fact that the WTA chose to play the YEC in Saudi..

by Oploskoffie Ah, yes, 't is the time for end-of-year lists

Unfortunately, I've never watched as little tennis as I have this year, which has been a real shame and wasn't down to a lack of interest. Part of it is certain channels not being able to show as many main matches - or just matches, for that matter - because of the broadcasting rights being bought by other parties and either being put behind a paywall or simply no longer broadcast where I live. I'll be weighing my options over the next couple of years; there are certain other sports I follow and love as well which seem to be moving in the same direction and I refuse to pay more than I already do for my entertainment. Choices will have to be made

All that said, I'd love to answer all seven of your questions, ashkor, but because of the above, I'll stick to #1 for now...

1. who impressed you the most as someone who is gearing up for great deeds in 2025?

In the first half of the season especially, I had a lot of fun watching Paolini and Boulter Matches. As exciting as young(er) prospects are, I have a soft spot for the players who find their next level a little later in their career and both Jasmine and Katie are now 28 I believe. Which is still young, but not Andreeva young. Unfortunately for both, it's not been the greatest year for consistency and I feel the Boulter's loss to Dart at Wimbledon messed with her momentum. I'd love to see both go one better in 2025, but doubt it will happen. With Andreeva, I'll be interested to see how she handles the increasing number of matches on the main tour, but of the names you mentioned my vote goes to Zheng to have the best year of the four of them.

by Oploskoffie

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 4:17 pm 3. who surprised you the most this year, positively? Andreeva? Coco? Sabalenka?Paolini?

For me, that'd be the story that most people outside (and, in all honesty, inside...) the Netherlands missed: the return of Michaela Krajicek. Another example of wanting to go out on one's own terms, she'd not really played competitive tennis for about five years, had dealt with several injuries (including six knee surgeries) and heart issues during her career, went on to have two children and dabbled in padel before returning to tennis at age 35 at absolute basement level: a lower, non-ITF, national level event in a place called Hoensbroek - which she won without dropping a set. She's since won three more national level titles and helped LTC Naaldwijk to the Dutch National Mixed Team title. And she's looked like she's had a blast doing it. No word yet on trying things out at ITF level next year, but if this is it, I think she's done well.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 4:17 pm Now that 2024 is done, at least for the women, some things to reflect on:
1. who impressed you the most as someone who is gearing up for great deeds in 2025? Zheng? Navarro? Noskova? Andreeva?
2. who has been the most disappointing in 2024?
3. who surprised you the most this year, positively? Andreeva? Coco? Sabalenka?Paolini?
4. whose return are you looking forward to the most? Bencic? Kvitova?
5. whose performance has puzzled you the most? Swiatek? Garcia?
6. what was the most positive event of the year?
7. the most depressing? I would say the fact that the WTA chose to play the YEC in Saudi..

1. I think Zheng has outperformed what was expected of her. Navarro had a nice ride, but I think that will be her peak. The FH is a lovely, but the rest of the game lacks power.
2. Rybakina. I know, there has been a lot of injuries. But she simply did very little.
3. Paolini. I thought that RG final was a fluke. Weeks later, she reaches the W. final. She can adjust and is playing better. At her age, that is amazing.
4. Nobody. I don't see them doing much if they come back.
5. Swiatek. Outside of clay, her level drops so much. She is a completely different player.
6. I would not know how to answer that. Too many events were good. Except:
7. Yes. The finals in Riyadh were a sad spectacle.

by ashkor87 looking forward, always more fun than looking back..
1. who will be best player in 2025? Sinner and Sabalenka, would be my guess.
2. who will fade away (relatively) ? Paolini and Rublev, would be my guess.
3. who will improve a lot, make great strides? Noskova and Andreeva, and Machac, my guess
4. which tournament will be the most chaotic, in the sense of upsets and unexected results? Wimbledon, would be my guess.. it is just so unusual a surface...
5. which tournament will play out exactly as we expect? that is, not chaos? French, I would guess.
6. who will win the Australian? Sabalenka and Sinner, French: Swiatek and Alcaraz, Wimbledon: Rybakina and Sinner, USO - Coco and Sinner
please add questions..!

by ponchi101 Rybakina will not win Wimbledon next year. The injuries are serious.
You are giving Sinner three slams in one year. That is a tall order.
Sabalenka for a threepeat at a tournament where many players feel at ease. Can be done, but I doubt it.
Wimbledon will be chaotic in the women's. I agree there. For the man, it will be more orderly.
Noskova and Andreeva remain a bit far away from top tennis.

by ti-amie

by ashkor87 I don't think Rybakina was injured..her problems were probably emotional ..she has gotten over them already. And Sinner is now as dominant as Djokovic was in his prime, so 3 majors? Quite feasible ..

by ashkor87 As for Noskova and Andreeva, young players improve very fast..they are knocking on the door right now, they will blast it open soon...at least, so I hope

by JTContinental I must have missed the part of the season where Rybakina has gotten over her problems.

by JTContinental

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2024 5:02 pm Rybakina will not win Wimbledon next year. The injuries are serious.
You are giving Sinner three slams in one year. That is a tall order.
Sabalenka for a threepeat at a tournament where many players feel at ease. Can be done, but I doubt it.
Wimbledon will be chaotic in the women's. I agree there. For the man, it will be more orderly.
Noskova and Andreeva remain a bit far away from top tennis.

Andreeva will step up, I think, but it seems like the Czech teen phenoms have not yet been playing at the level that was expected. Noskova is doing ok, but both Fruhvirtovas have regressed this season, IMO. Bejlek has yet to crack the top 100.

by ashkor87

JTContinental wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:47 am I must have missed the part of the season where Rybakina has gotten over her problems.

beating Sabalenka not good enough?

by nelslus

JTContinental wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:47 am I must have missed the part of the season where Rybakina has gotten over her problems.

LOL, agreed, and I am a fan of Rybakina's game.

OH, and to He Who Has Me Blocked For Infinity and Beyond....yes, beating Sabalenka in a match that did not matter is not good enough.

by ti-amie

by Fastbackss

ti-amie wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2024 11:46 pm

That is definitively not a swimming pool

by ashkor87 Thinking about Davis/BJK Cup and doubles..I am reminded of a story..
The US was playing Romania int he DC finals, and it was time for the doubles team of Stan Smith and Van Dillen to play Nastase and Tiriac.. Arthur Ashe asked Van Dillen what he proposed to do - the answer was 'I will support Stan as best as I can'.. Ashe told him 'No, you are going to take leadership out there and seize the initiative, win the match for us'.. and Van Dillen did just that..

by skatingfan

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2024 11:11 am That is definitively not a swimming pool

Are you sure? It's blue - water is blue - it must be water, therefore it's a pool.

by Fastbackss

skatingfan wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 4:44 pm
Fastbackss wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2024 11:11 am That is definitively not a swimming pool
Are you sure? It's blue - water is blue - it must be water, therefore it's a pool.

This took me a minute, as I had gotten my posts confused. I most recently commented re: Ostapenko in a pool and I thought "I KNOW she was in a pool, why would I have said she wasn't "

by ti-amie

[Reem Abulleil] Raducanu: Sometimes, I need reminding I'm top 60 and I've played less than 15 events, which is pretty unheard of. I have to pat myself on the back for that. I know I'm a dangerous player. I know no one wants to pull my name in the draw. I take pride in that.

Best response

Expensive_Window_538
•
3h ago

Muchova has played in only 7 tournaments and is in the top 25. This is the player everyone fears, not Raducanu

by ponchi101 Agree.
Heck, I like Emma. But I think she is not even the most respected Emma on tour, at the moment.

by ashkor87

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 3:08 am Agree.
Heck, I like Emma. But I think she is not even the most respected Emma on tour, at the moment.

Depends on what you respect!

by ashkor87 The year is done ..interesting that those who began the year in a high note ..also finished as #1, despite some deviations in the middle of the year..

by Suliso After Alcaraz won Wimbledon I was sure he'd be the player of the year even if not year end #1. Clearly not the case.

by ponchi101 Depending on tastes, Carlos' year could be seen as more important than Yannik's.
I don't agree with that but for some people W is so much bigger than anything else that they could say so.
But Yannik's year was excellent indeed.

by Suliso Jannik beat him in virtually every other category except that and h2h.

by Fastbackss https://www.tennisabstract.com/blog/202 ... -reversal/

Paging ashkor to the courtesy phone

by ponchi101 Very interesting analysis.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie This looks as if it were digitally created but I'll post it anyway.

by ti-amie The Daily Fail wants me to remove my ad blocker so I'll post the link after the list of names. I don't think players who were active before the open era, including Laver, should be compared to people who were active afterwards. We could also split the players by technology - wooden racquets vs the new models - but I guess that's also asking too much.

1. Novak Djokovic
2. Serena Williams
3. Steffi Graf
4. Rafael Nadal
5. Roger Federer
6. Martina Navratilova
7. Rod Laver
8. Helen Wills
9. Chris Evert
10. Margaret Court
11. Bjorn Borg
12. Pete Sampras
13. Monica Seles
14. Ken Rosewall
15. Billie Jean King
16. John McEnroe
17. Suzanne Lenglen
18. Venus Williams
19. Jimmy Connors
20. Andre Agassi
21. Ivan Lendl
22. Justine Henin
23. Don Budge
24. Andy Murray
25. Fred Perry

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tenni ... Nadal.html

Suzanne Lenglen? Really? I'm glad they made one list though.

by ashkor87 Gonzales would be #1 in my list

by ashkor87

Fastbackss wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 12:28 am https://www.tennisabstract.com/blog/202 ... -reversal/

Paging ashkor to the courtesy phone

Rublev has power, Ruud doesn't...Rublev will naturally do better where power counts..
But the analysis on serve return is fascinating...

by ponchi101

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 2:22 am Gonzales would be #1 in my list

And if only Maureen Connolly had not gone horse riding that afternoon...

by ashkor87 Mighty Mo!

by ti-amie

Billie Jean King Cup
@BJKCup
2024: The Year of Jasmine

- WTA 1000 Dubai – Champion
- WTA 500 Linz – Champion (doubles)
- WTA 1000 Rome – Champion (doubles)
- Roland-Garros - Finalist (singles)
- Roland-Garros - Finalist (doubles)
- Wimbledon - Finalist (singles)
- Olympic gold medallist (doubles)
- Beijing champion (doubles)
- Billie Jean King Cup champion

by ponchi101 She is inspiring.
Has no size, is "old" by now, had never made anything that was "great". And she is now playing the best tennis of her career.

by Owendonovan ...and pocketing a sizable amount of money this late in her career.

by ashkor87 Paolini is incredibly quick, in the league of Swiatek and Coco - that makes her defense impenetrable.. which is why I had predicted she would do well at Wimbledon despite no real track record on grass..she will do well at the AO as well, I would think... at Wimbledon, people who can stay low have an advantage anyway.. it is not something tall people can easily do

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