Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

[ashkor87]

The Laver Cup needs fixing too, while we are about I..maybe Western Europe versus Eastern Europe would be more competitive than Europe versus rest..the rest has nothing to match Europe with! Oh well .but these are, we hop, temporary phenomena..

[Cuckoo4Coco]

There could be a system with maybe 4 regions involved for Tennis that included (Canada, USA, S.America/Latin America), (The Dominant Region of France/UK/Germany/Italy/Greece/Spain and those countries), (Then Russia, Czech Rep,Kazahstan, China) and then (Australia, Japan, South Africa). They could play on all the surfaces during the tournament so like in S.America they could play on clay and in Britain on Grass and so on.

[ponchi101]

That would mean some sort of modified Davis Cup. And remember, the Laver Cup wants to play in big, profitable stadia. It is not there for the glory of the sport, it is there to make money.
The Laver Cup is an exo. As Ashkor says, the current format is flawed because Europe has become the region where all the power comes from. And it does not look like once the Big 3 are gone, it will change much. The highest ranked NON-Europeans are FAA @ 9, Fritz @ 13. That will not cut it. And the upcoming crop is almost all European: Carlitos, Jannik, Rune. Brooksby and Baez are the sole young WORLD players.
Sometimes some ideas simply do not work. It happens in all sports. In the NBA, the All Star weekend has to get rid of the SLAM DUNK contest; this year's was a total mess and, really, by now almost all NBA players can dunk a ball with their eyes looking DOWN into the rim. The skill, at that level of pros, has become diluted because everybody has it. With tennis, Europe will simply be the powerhouse, with an occasional American or Aussie coming along. It would have been a great idea in the 70's. Not anymore.

[Cuckoo4Coco]

That would mean some sort of modified Davis Cup. And remember, the Laver Cup wants to play in big, profitable stadia. It is not there for the glory of the sport, it is there to make money.
The Laver Cup is an exo. As Ashkor says, the current format is flawed because Europe has become the region where all the power comes from. And it does not look like once the Big 3 are gone, it will change much. The highest ranked NON-Europeans are FAA @ 9, Fritz @ 13. That will not cut it. And the upcoming crop is almost all European: Carlitos, Jannik, Rune. Brooksby and Baez are the sole young WORLD players.
Sometimes some ideas simply do not work. It happens in all sports. In the NBA, the All Star weekend has to get rid of the SLAM DUNK contest; this year's was a total mess and, really, by now almost all NBA players can dunk a ball with their eyes looking DOWN into the rim. The skill, at that level of pros, has become diluted because everybody has it. With tennis, Europe will simply be the powerhouse, with an occasional American or Aussie coming along. It would have been a great idea in the 70's. Not anymore.

I wonder why that is? Is it the development of the players? Is it because the players are exposed to all of the courts like clay, hard, grass where like here in America it is mostly Hard Courts and barely Clay and basically no Grass courts. There are great Tennis Academies all over the United States. Heck I know, I have looked into some of them when I was younger. Extremely expensive, but they are there. I just don't understand why in North America the development isn't even close to Europe.

[ponchi101]

Money.
In the USA, any young athlete has a lot of options to chose from, and where the money is appealing. Any young GUY can decide: MLB, NFL, NBA, several Extreme sports, then tennis. But the number of AMERICAN tennis players that make consistent money as a pro must be about 12; the guys in the top 100. Heck, that is an NBA team, where everybody is a millionaire, even on the bench. Plus, you get all your expenses paid.
Look at the women; it is the opposite. In the USA, there has been no drop in the number of female tennis players that are reaching high rankings. Well, a bit, because Europe has also been producing excellent players. But that is because the salaries of any other female athletes pale in comparison. A WNBA player can only dream of a salary like the ones in WTA, and let's not even think of endorsements. I guarantee that Naomi's endorsements probably are more than all of the WNBA combined.
And tennis is expensive. Here in S. America, with a sliver of the population being "middle class", only those and the more affluent can play tennis, which is an expensive sport. Two racquets, lots of balls, court time, shoes, etc. That is a lot of money. Take that money, but on soccer ball, and you have 22 kids playing. And THOSE kids want to make it to the Euro leagues.
Europe is more affluent at the moment. Kids in Spain, France, Italy, and all of Europe, can play for a modicum percentage of their parents' income, if not come up through a federation program. That is unthinkable in S. America, or Africa, and slowly in the USA.

[meganfernandez]

And tennis is expensive. Here in S. America, with a sliver of the population being "middle class", only those and the more affluent can play tennis, which is an expensive sport. Two racquets, lots of balls, court time, shoes, etc. That is a lot of money. Take that money, but on soccer ball, and you have 22 kids playing. And THOSE kids want to make it to the Euro leagues.
Europe is more affluent at the moment. Kids in Spain, France, Italy, and all of Europe, can play for a modicum percentage of their parents' income, if not come up through a federation program. That is unthinkable in S. America, or Africa, and slowly in the USA.

Learning tennis is expensive. Regular private lessons, lots of indoor court time. Tennis is highly technical and you need a lot of instruction to get good enough to play collegiately or professionally. But otherwise, I don't think tennis is all that expensive here. Used racket, a couple cans of balls, no special clothes, free courts all over the U.S.

Do you need that much specialized coaching to develop as a young basketball or football player? Coaching you can't get through readily available local leagues, the school system, and and parks and rec programs? I'm not talking about when you get to be a teenager and have shown promise and need some serious coaching. But early on, to see if someone has potential. I don't think those programs are readily available for tennis as they are for more popular sports like basketball, soccer, baseball, football and maybe even volleyball.

[ponchi101]

Sure. But if you get to be a GOOD tennis player, you can make money. FOR YOURSELF. A good footballer can make money for himself, AND A TEAM/CORPORATION. So there are scouts all over the place looking for the next Messi, the next Pele. That kid will get a lot of help to LEARN his sport, as opposed to a tennis kid that may be spotted by a good coach, who can say whether the kid can become good enough to reach the pros.
But, as you say, learning tennis is expensive. Connors may have been the sole product of public tennis courts, but his mom was a coach. He had a bit of an edge there.

[meganfernandez]

Sure. But if you get to be a GOOD tennis player, you can make money. FOR YOURSELF. A good footballer can make money for himself, AND A TEAM/CORPORATION. So there are scouts all over the place looking for the next Messi, the next Pele. That kid will get a lot of help to LEARN his sport, as opposed to a tennis kid that may be spotted by a good coach, who can say whether the kid can become good enough to reach the pros.
But, as you say, learning tennis is expensive. Connors may have been the sole product of public tennis courts, but his mom was a coach. He had a bit of an edge there.

And the Williams sisters. I think they got pretty good before they got help, right? If the movie is accurate.

You're right about the potential to make someone else money hurting tennis development. Some coaches with academies invest in players for a future payoff, but there aren't nearly as many as teams in other sports.

[Fastbackss]

Roddick was just on the Kasich/Klepper podcast. He was asked about the notion of tennis being expensive. He bristled at it and said some combination of everything you all mentioned. He gave lots of examples of where it wasn't because of money. He talked about the drive + dedication required to keep pushing when there are other financial obstacles in the way.
He also talked about the importance of having someone there to help see/guide through and keep on track

[ponchi101]

...

And the Williams sisters. I think they got pretty good before they got help, right? If the movie is accurate.

You're right about the potential to make someone else money hurting tennis development. Some coaches with academies invest in players for a future payoff, but there aren't nearly as many as teams in other sports.

I never count the Williams in any statistic because they are exceptional. That story is both inspirational and a warning.

[ponchi101]

Roddick was just on the Kasich/Klepper podcast. He was asked about the notion of tennis being expensive. He bristled at it and said some combination of everything you all mentioned. He gave lots of examples of where it wasn't because of money. He talked about the drive + dedication required to keep pushing when there are other financial obstacles in the way.
He also talked about the importance of having someone there to help see/guide through and keep on track

Sure. If you don't have the drive and dedication, you won't make it.
But don't tell me that an entire continent like Africa does not have people with drive and dedication, but has produced very few tennis players. What will take you there has to be based on something. And that something is the access to courts, equipment and time.

[Cuckoo4Coco]

Roddick was just on the Kasich/Klepper podcast. He was asked about the notion of tennis being expensive. He bristled at it and said some combination of everything you all mentioned. He gave lots of examples of where it wasn't because of money. He talked about the drive + dedication required to keep pushing when there are other financial obstacles in the way.
He also talked about the importance of having someone there to help see/guide through and keep on track

I have grown up learning and playing the game of tennis since I was 5 years old. In the beginning of course I never even thought about how much money my grandparents were putting into this for me. I was just having fun. As I got older I did realize that the game of tennis was expensive, but like Andy Roddick said, It comes down to the heart and dedication of wanting to succeed at the game. Yeah, I guess there was a price that came along with that with coaches & lessons and equipment, but when it came down to it the dedication was what I had to keep this going.

Also, I 100% agree that it is extremely important to have the right people to guide me and keep me on track.

[ponchi101]

I will tell you the opposite story. A good friend of mine, a bit older, had this son who was a super hotshot. He really could belt the ball, was super fast, and who knows where he could have ended.
Then my friend lost his job when his company (the local branch of a multinational in Venezuela) closed operations. He was hired, for 1/4th his salary, as a part time person in smaller company.
And his son had to stop paying because this kid was a string-breaking machine. It was a $40/day cost, because he would break one set of strings a set; he hit that hard. And his dad had to tell him "we can't afford that".
He took up the guitar (the kid).
Venezuela has not produced a single ATP main tour player in about two decades. Which about the span of time in which we have been living as a dictatorship. The correlation is easy.

[Cuckoo4Coco]

I will tell you the opposite story. A good friend of mine, a bit older, had this son who was a super hotshot. He really could belt the ball, was super fast, and who knows where he could have ended.
Then my friend lost his job when his company (the local branch of a multinational in Venezuela) closed operations. He was hired, for 1/4th his salary, as a part time person in smaller company.
And his son had to stop paying because this kid was a string-breaking machine. It was a $40/day cost, because he would break one set of strings a set; he hit that hard. And his dad had to tell him "we can't afford that".
He took up the guitar (the kid).
Venezuela has not produced a single ATP main tour player in about two decades. Which about the span of time in which we have been living as a dictatorship. The correlation is easy.

That is such a sad story. Not only for your friend and his son having to give up the game he loved to play, but the whole situation with your country. Do you have to be safe about stuff you say like people in Russia. Like saying stuff against your government could get you in trouble if it was found out?

[ponchi101]

Remember a few days ago I told a story about a Tik-Toker being detained at the airport the last time I came back from there to Bogota (where I live). I would not publish anything about Vennieland under my real name. I am totally non-important in Venezuela but they would not care.
I have to go back next week because I have to renew my passport (Venezuela closed its embassy in Colombia, its largest, neighboring country) and I am already freaking out. Yeah, sure, I am a paranoid, but I have been right so many times...