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Re: '23 ATP 500 Tokyo 10/16 - 10/22 2023
Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:18 am
by ashkor87
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:57 am
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:21 am
I wouldn't pay much attention to these tournaments...it is the silly season in tennis now, strange inexplicable results are to be expected...only the year-end playoffs are meaningful now.
I assume by meaningful, you mean impact on Slam title favorites. I have to disagree. The points and confidence are meaningful. Wozniacki won Australia because she finished 2017 with a title after going 0-6 or 0-7 in finals since her comeback then. She has said that gave her confidence going into the next year. Who's in form and gaining confidence at this point can matter.
I used to not pay too much attention to the fall indoors season, but I I think these storylines and developments can matter more than we think. Ben's' title is an important culmination of a breakthrough year. If he had gone back to not winning consecutive matches after the US Open, I think his stock would be down by Melbourne. He would be mentioned as a dark horse maybe, but now he will be on the short list of favorites after Djokovic and Alcaraz. I bet he will be the #4 or #5 pick behind Novak, Carlos, Medvedev, and Sinner. A hot pick for sure.
Well, yes, the YEC does count. But Garcia could not ride on her performance at YEC last year. As for Shelton and Korda, if they weren't American, I don't think anyone would care. They are still far behind Medvedev, Sinner ..
Re: '23 ATP 500 Tokyo 10/16 - 10/22 2023
Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2023 6:53 am
by meganfernandez
ashkor87 wrote:meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:57 am
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:21 am
I wouldn't pay much attention to these tournaments...it is the silly season in tennis now, strange inexplicable results are to be expected...only the year-end playoffs are meaningful now.
I assume by meaningful, you mean impact on Slam title favorites. I have to disagree. The points and confidence are meaningful. Wozniacki won Australia because she finished 2017 with a title after going 0-6 or 0-7 in finals since her comeback then. She has said that gave her confidence going into the next year. Who's in form and gaining confidence at this point can matter.
I used to not pay too much attention to the fall indoors season, but I I think these storylines and developments can matter more than we think. Ben's' title is an important culmination of a breakthrough year. If he had gone back to not winning consecutive matches after the US Open, I think his stock would be down by Melbourne. He would be mentioned as a dark horse maybe, but now he will be on the short list of favorites after Djokovic and Alcaraz. I bet he will be the #4 or #5 pick behind Novak, Carlos, Medvedev, and Sinner. A hot pick for sure.
Well, yes, the YEC does count. But Garcia could not ride on her performance at YEC last year. As for Shelton and Korda, if they weren't American, I don't think anyone would care. They are still far behind Medvedev, Sinner ..
Garcia is one example. One can find a single example (or a few) of anything. I think in an objective sense, these events matter - they offer points that affect rankings, and any wins are confidence-builders. Whether they have much predictive value, who knows. I don’t think any more or less than any other tournament of the same level (250, 500, etc) at any time of the year. Regardless, these events matter on their own.
Re: Shelton and Korda, i think the reason they matter is because they have been hyped and shown a lot of potential. More so than Bublik.
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Re: '23 ATP 500 Tokyo 10/16 - 10/22 2023
Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2023 6:46 pm
by ponchi101
More so than Bublik because we know Bublik and he can now go three 1R tournaments in a row because he will not give one flying (expletive) about the game for a while. Bublik LIKES the sport; he certainly does not play as if he LOVES the sport.
Shelton and Korda are not like that.
Re: '23 ATP 500 Tokyo 10/16 - 10/22 2023
Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:19 am
by ashkor87
It is not just Garcia..Muguruza, Svitolina, Radwanska, Cibulkova..all won since 2015 ..they did nothing the next year or two ..if anything, the exceptions are those who did...Barty, Wozniacki...
Re: '23 ATP 500 Tokyo 10/16 - 10/22 2023
Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:03 pm
by meganfernandez
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:19 am
It is not just Garcia..Muguruza, Svitolina, Radwanska, Cibulkova..all won since 2015 ..they did nothing the next year or two ..if anything, the exceptions are those who did...Barty, Wozniacki...
Okay, keep going past 2015.
That was a period of WTA parity in general. My point is this season matters on its own as much as any other season - predictive value isn't the only thing that matters in tennis, although I'm not so sure this season has any less predictive value than any other 2 months of the year.
Fans are obsessed with predictive value instead of what's actually happening at the time. Always racing ahead.
But I do think the confidence built in this part of the season can affect the next season. The points definitely do.
Re: '23 ATP 500 Tokyo 10/16 - 10/22 2023
Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:04 pm
by ashkor87
Fair enough..what I am saying is that the intensity players bring to these tournaments is much less than they bring in the regular season so strange results can happen, we should ignore them, not expect them to happen again
Re: '23 ATP 500 Tokyo 10/16 - 10/22 2023
Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:58 pm
by meganfernandez
ashkor87 wrote:Fair enough..what I am saying is that the intensity players bring to these tournaments is much less than they bring in the regular season so strange results can happen, we should ignore them, not expect them to happen again
Top players and injured players, for sure. The incentives are different. I think it’s indicative of what’s happening just below the very top tier, and that tier can have an impact next year. But it’s more indicative of who has had a good year, who had built up to this and who is still engaged.
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Re: '23 ATP 500 Tokyo 10/16 - 10/22 2023
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:15 pm
by ponchi101
I will only say: I don't like it when we say that tournaments are "not worth it".
Tell that to the winner. Tell that to any player that won (for example) only Umag in his career, or Cluj-Napoca. Tell them that it is meaningless.
I know, these tournaments are not Slams, but the players that show up and play should feel as good as possible if they win them.
Rest of the year be damned.
Re: '23 ATP 500 Tokyo 10/16 - 10/22 2023
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:29 pm
by ashkor87
Of course, players will see things differently from us fans..we don't get the points or prize money!
'23 ATP 500 Tokyo 10/16 - 10/22 2023
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:15 pm
by meganfernandez
ashkor87 wrote:Of course, players will see things differently from us fans..we don't get the points or prize money!
Jon Wertheim was right with you in today’s Mailbag, Ashkor!
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Re: '23 ATP 500 Tokyo 10/16 - 10/22 2023
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 2:25 am
by ashkor87
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:15 pm
ashkor87 wrote:Of course, players will see things differently from us fans..we don't get the points or prize money!
Jon Wertheim was right with you in today’s Mailbag, Ashkor!
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Wertheim has gone behind a paywall so I don't get to read him any more..I like him a lot
Re: '23 ATP 500 Tokyo 10/16 - 10/22 2023
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:07 pm
by meganfernandez
ashkor87 wrote:meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:15 pm
ashkor87 wrote:Of course, players will see things differently from us fans..we don't get the points or prize money!
Jon Wertheim was right with you in today’s Mailbag, Ashkor!
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Wertheim has gone behind a paywall so I don't get to read him any more..I like him a lot
You get four free articles
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