Talk About Tennis 2.0

The unluckiest of net cords... Sloane was close to winning the match, up 6-1, 4-4 and 15-all. Then this happened, and Samsonova came back.

It will be Russia vs Switzerland in BJK cup final.

Third loss for Belinda this season to Samsonova. I hadn't even heard of Samsonova this time last year.

Not a fan of Russia and their sports programs, so I'll skip giving them credit and just say congrats to the players on that team, most of whom I like in one way or another. Nicely done.

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:53 pm Third loss for Belinda this season to Samsonova. I hadn't even heard of Samsonova this time last year.

Not a fan of Russia and their sports programs, so I'll skip giving them credit and just say congrats to the players on that team, most of whom I like in one way or another. Nicely done.

How is tennis influenced by "sports programs"? This is an individual sport, not giving many Olympic medals. For the 99% of their time players represent just themselves rather than a country. This Cup is a rare exception, but is not popular (sadly)

I don’t know all the details on the drama, but Russia changed the lineup late and the Swiss were pissed. Talked about it in the press conferences.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Swiss complaining about things within the rules that but maybe shouldn't be done is real special. Similar to the rules allowing a shady MTO before your opponent's serve in a gold medal match at the Olympics.

The blowback against the Swiss by Tennis Twitter has been hard and vicious.

We all know that Russian sport has a well defined history of cheating in various ways. Honest competitiveness has not been their strong point over the years. That reputation doesn't mean that the Fed Cup team did anything wrong or questionable... but it doesn't really help their claim that their last minute substitution was made out of necessity, rather than out of gamesmanship.

But it must also be said that the winning country was decided on the court. On the court, the Swiss and the Russians had equal opportunity to win each match.

Here is an explanation as to what happened... No-one but the Russian team knows for sure exactly why they made the substitution.
Team Switzerland Miffed About Russian Personnel Change

All that said, it's very sad that 'social media' turns everything into a pathetic reality show.

Why substituting a player is "gamesmanship" or even "cheating"? Isn't it an obligation of Davis Cup/Fed Cup captain to select the best suited player for each particular rubber? Otherwise what would be a role of a captain? Looks like a classic case of sour grapes on part of Swiss.

mick1303 wrote:Why substituting a player is "gamesmanship" or even "cheating"? Isn't it an obligation of Davis Cup/Fed Cup captain to select the best suited player for each particular rubber? Otherwise what would be a role of a captain? Looks like a classic case of sour grapes on part of Swiss.

Yeah but they might have manipulated the rules to get the matchup they most wanted. If they had nominated Samsonova in the original lineup, she wouldnt have played Bencic. That’s the issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bencic was also free and clear to just beat Samsonova. Only one of those two players has been a top 10 player with a ton of success on the WTA tour. To a very large extent, the issue is that Belinda lost the match.

This is reminding me of basketball or football when someone is complaining about running up the score on them and how that's unfair and an unwritten rule that you shouldn't do. The answer to that nonsense is almost always, you're welcome to play defense at any point.

I go even to the extreme. The opposing team stole your signs? Be better at keeping them safe.
Plus: you are not playing the Barefoot Carmelites. Your captain should be ready for these things.

It's interesting that some of you who find this and other questionable behaviour (in various sports) to be acceptable are also the ones who complain the loudest about the questionable use of Medical Time-Outs in tennis.

More than anything, it's a matter of respect.
To do what the Russians did smells a lot like gamesmanship. They arranged for Pavlyuchenkova to play Bencic. And so Bencic, and the Swiss team, prepared a game plan for Bencic to play Pavlyuchenkova. Should they also have prepared a game plan for Bencic to play Samsonova and any other player whom it was legal to substitute for Pavlyuchenkova? I, personally, don't think so, because it takes time and strategy thinking to prepare a game plan. They trusted the word of the Russians that Pavlyuchenkova would play - because that's what they were told.

So, if the Russians did this deliberately to mislead the Swiss team, wanting them to prepare for Pavlyuchenkova knowing full well that Samsonova would be slotted in at the last minute, then it was a cheap ploy. That it was done legally perhaps indicates that this rule needs to be reviewed so that it can be modified so as to not allow this to occur again.

Yes, Bencic had an opportunity to beat Samsonova. But if the Russians were able to prepare a game plan well in advance for Samsonova to play Bencic, while the Swiss did not have the same length of time to prepare a game plan for Bencic to play Samsonova, then the rule needs to be reviewed to prevent its further abuse and manipulation, and ensure that both teams always have equal opportunities to prepare - except in case of legitimate injury.
'Legitimate injury' is where the issue becomes cloudy, of course. The Russian doctor can claim that the injury to Pavlyuchenkova was legitimate. Fine. But I feel the rule should be altered to not allow substitutions within, say, 2 hours of the beginning of the match, rather than the current 15 minutes. For, if a player is legitimately injured and unable to play, 99 times out of 100, the team in question will know this 2 hours before the beginning of the match.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:58 pm I go even to the extreme. The opposing team stole your signs? Be better at keeping them safe.
Plus: you are not playing the Barefoot Carmelites. Your captain should be ready for these things.

Both are true. Swiss could, maybe should, have been prepared for it, but it doesn't let Russia off the hook if it was gamesmanship. The onus is on everyone to play fair.

I'm not sure it really threw Bencic off - she won the first set - or taints Russia's win. But those are also separate issues from whether Russia did something crappy, and I'm about 50/50 on whether they did, maybe slightly tilting to yes, they did. I doubt Pavs's condition changed between the time they submitted the lineup and the time she withdrew, 50 minutes later.

Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:11 amSo, if the Russians did this deliberately to mislead the Swiss team, wanting them to prepare for Pavlyuchenkova knowing full well that Samsonova would be slotted in at the last minute, then it was a cheap ploy. That it was done legally perhaps indicates that this rule needs to be reviewed so that it can be modified so as to not allow this to occur again.

I don't think the preparation issue is the biggest one. The reason for submitting Pavs originally is because that was the only way to get Bencic-Samsonova match, regardless of whether the timing of it threw off Bencic's prep or not. If it did, that was a bonus. But the Swiss couldn't have assumed a Pavs matchup, especially since she was hurt. So Bencic was technically only misled for less than an hour. Russia's bigger crime, in my eyes, is being disingenous to get the matchup they wanted. If they did.

Any yes, the rule needs to be reviewed and maybe adjusted for a best-of-3 match. It's a holdover from the best-of-5 Fed Cup format, to avoid a repeat matchup when 1 played 2 then 1 played 1 and 2 played 2. In B3, it's not an issue. It's only 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2.