Talk About Tennis 2.0

NBC has moved the end of the match to their streaming service so I'm not watching, but Keys has raced out to a 6-0 lead in the final set super tiebreak

JTContinental wrote:NBC has moved the end of the match to their streaming service so I'm not watching, but Keys has raced out to a 6-0 lead in the final set super tiebreak

She won, 10-3 I think


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meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:38 pm

ponchi101 wrote:

patrick wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 4:58 pm

Please provide Badosa 25 times she has retired

R32 French Open Kudermetova

mick1303 wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 5:31 pm

This is wrong. Badosa retired 7 times prior to this Roland Garros. Maybe Puig counted juniors, qualification, challengers, etc.

I will trust you more than Monica, although she has been fairly reliable. I thought it was too much, but since she is broadcasting for ESPN, I thought somebody must have fed her the info.
7 times is still considerable.

An average of 1 retirement per year isn’t excessive IMO. She turned pro 7 years ago.

That would mean she had 18 in-match retirements up until the age of 17, which is excessive in my book, considering that one typically doesn't play serious tournaments where in-match retirements would count before the age of at least 10.

A breakdown would be nice to have. If she turned pro 7 years ago, I assume that means she began playing ITF events at that time. So if she's retired 7 times from matches in that time, then the other 18 retirements were at the Junior level.
Excessive, indeed.

I guess the good news may be that she's gotten out of the habit of retiring so easily, today notwithstanding...

How much can we actually trust that number 25? Some people play loose with numbers and 15 suddenly grows to 25...

Suliso wrote:How much can we actually trust that number 25? Some people play loose with numbers and 15 suddenly grows to 25...

Agree, 25 is dubious. Also hope people don’t judge me by what I did at 16.

Anyway, Sabalenka had other plans today. Isn’t her boyfriend a football player?




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ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 5:41 pm
I will trust you more than Monica, although she has been fairly reliable. I thought it was too much, but since she is broadcasting for ESPN, I thought somebody must have fed her the info.
7 times is still considerable.

Monica is going to be proven right here and I'm sure you're correct that there was an ESPN producer that fed her the info. It is most definitely not 7 retirements in her pro career and 25 is highly likely to be the accurate number.

I just pulled up a random year and I see 6 retirements from her in 2017. Her junior RG title was in 2015, so she was definitely a pro in 2017 and that's a ton of retirements in a single year. I looked at 2019 after seeing that. 5 retirements. That's Yastremska-eqsue. And though I didn't look at every single one closely, there's definitely a lot of play the next week or the week after in there, so even more suspect. These "injuries" weren't leading to extended time away from the tour, she played a full season's worth of tournaments in both 2017 and 2019.

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 7:59 pm

Suliso wrote:How much can we actually trust that number 25? Some people play loose with numbers and 15 suddenly grows to 25...

Agree, 25 is dubious. Also hope people don’t judge me by what I did at 16.

Anyway, Sabalenka had other plans today. Isn’t her boyfriend a football player?

I'm not sure why there's so much skepticism about the 25. You're not alone of course, but I wonder why it's so hard to believe. Is it because people like her? I like her too, but we've called this out about other players, no reason not to do so if this is a trend in Paula's career. We haven't been watching Badosa closely for 7 years, we've been watching her closely for a year and a half for the most part. WTA very clearly lists a retirement as part of the scoreline when one occurs, there doesn't need to be skepticism about the numbers.

And she wasn't 16. If someone was saying this only happened when she was 16, that's very much inaccurate.


Sabalenka's boyfriend was a hockey player, he's a good deal older than her, so his playing days are well behind him.

I went back and counted the retirements listed in WTA page for Paula:
2016. 6 ret (5 ITF)
2017. 6 ret (6 ITF)
2018. 3 ret (2 ITF)
2019. 3 ret (3 ITF)
2020. 1 ret (1 ITF)
2021. 3 ret (1 Olympics)
2022. 2 ret (including RG)

I count 24, so maybe one more in a previous year. A lot, as you can see, are at ITF level, which might be where Puig got her data from.
So it depends how you count her career. if you include ITF level tournaments, which are pro, Monica is right. If not, we get the figures here in the topic.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 10:17 pm I went back and counted the retirements listed in WTA page for Paula:
2016. 6 ret (5 ITF)
2017. 6 ret (6 ITF)
2018. 3 ret (2 ITF)
2019. 3 ret (3 ITF)
2020. 1 ret (1 ITF)
2021. 3 ret (1 Olympics)
2022. 2 ret (including RG)

I count 24, so maybe one more in a previous year. A lot, as you can see, are at ITF level, which might be where Puig got her data from.
So it depends how you count her career. if you include ITF level tournaments, which are pro, Monica is right. If not, we get the figures here in the topic.

Why would ITF be excluded? I don't understand that logic. Excluding Juniors I get, but not ITF once you've fully gone to the pro tour.

For 2019, I'm wondering if you expanded to see all her results - like I said before, I counted 5 retirements, but you only have 3 listed. And assuming the rest is correct, if you removed RG from your count, and add in 2 missing from 2019, that's 25.

2019 Retirements -

1) ITF Australia
2) Samsung Open in Lugano, Switzerland
3) ITF Spain
4) ITF Japan
5) ITF Luxembourg

I didn't say they should be excluded. I said if SOMEBODY would do so, the count drops to 7. I agree, they should count. Those are pro level matches. It is the same as the Olympics withdrawal, which I remember was because she was passing out due to the heat.
So Monica is most likely right. Your count for 2019 is different than mine, so you found a couple of extra matches.

BTW.
Some people have voiced opinions (I have, at least) that after the Big Three, there might be a void not only the quality of tennis, but also on personalities that are likeable.
Holger Rune wants to differ.
At the end of his on-court interview with Corretja, Corretja told him "I am going to let you go, it is cold and you must be getting cold".
Rune deadpanned: "I'm from Denmark".

Maybe I am, as so frequently happens, wrong. The new, new kids may be alright.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 1:37 am I didn't say they should be excluded. I said if SOMEBODY would do so, the count drops to 7. I agree, they should count. Those are pro level matches. It is the same as the Olympics withdrawal, which I remember was because she was passing out due to the heat.
So Monica is most likely right. Your count for 2019 is different than mine, so you found a couple of extra matches.

I did look up my data on challengers (since WTA did not have such clear distinction between pro challengers and ITF, these are mixed data, where the tournaments are counted in my database if prize money is 25K or above). I found 16 retirements for her on this circuit, so 7 + 16 is equal to 23. It is possible that couple of retirements happened in ITF-15 events or quallies, and there you have it. All of her 16 retirements are ITF-25, except one ITF-50 in Barcelona.

I gather that the point is that she has retired A LOT. According to the link Ti placed (separate topic), she has played 136 matches. Just give her the 23 retirements you mention here, and that is roughly 1-out of-6 matches she has retired from.
That is fairly unheard of.

mick1303 wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 10:03 am
I did look up my data on challengers (since WTA did not have such clear distinction between pro challengers and ITF, these are mixed data, where the tournaments are counted in my database if prize money is 25K or above). I found 16 retirements for her on this circuit, so 7 + 16 is equal to 23. It is possible that couple of retirements happened in ITF-15 events or quallies, and there you have it. All of her 16 retirements are ITF-25, except one ITF-50 in Barcelona.

I don't know where you're pulling the data from, but if you want accuracy, I'm positive there's one that is a $60k event in Australia because I originally wrote it out that way when I posted her 2019 retirements yesterday.

JazzNU wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:35 pm

mick1303 wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 10:03 am
I did look up my data on challengers (since WTA did not have such clear distinction between pro challengers and ITF, these are mixed data, where the tournaments are counted in my database if prize money is 25K or above). I found 16 retirements for her on this circuit, so 7 + 16 is equal to 23. It is possible that couple of retirements happened in ITF-15 events or quallies, and there you have it. All of her 16 retirements are ITF-25, except one ITF-50 in Barcelona.

I don't know where you're pulling the data from, but if you want accuracy, I'm positive there's one that is a $60k event in Australia because I originally wrote it out that way when I posted her 2019 retirements yesterday.

For WTA I don't have now any source to populate a database other than SteveGTennis. WTA and ITF sites allow to look up a separate match or two, but the data there is in such form that I can't parse it en masse. in 2019 I counted 5 events in Australia, which were 60k. Badosa played in two of them - Burnie and Launceston. No retirements. The other 3 were in autumn (Darwin, Bendigo, Playford). I don't see her in the draws of those.