by ti-amie COMPLETE
Court PHILIPPE-CHATRIER
Mixed Doubles
FINAL
NOR U.Eikeri/BEL J.Vliegen vs JPN E.Shibahara/(2) NED W.Koolhof (2)
Women’s Singles
UPCOMING
SEMIFINALS
Not before 15:00
SWIATEK
POL I. Swiatek (1) vs --- D.Kasatkina (20)
Women’s Singles
UPCOMING
SEMIFINALS
ITA M.Trevisan vs USA C.Gauff (18)
Court SUZANNE-LENGLEN
Women’s Legends
FIRST ROUND
SVK D.Hantuchova/USA M.Navratilova vs ITA F.Pennetta/ITA F.Schiavone
Women’s Legends
UPCOMING
FIRST ROUND
CRO I.Majoli/FRA M.Pierce vs ARG G.Dulko/ARG G.Sabatini
Men’s Legends
UPCOMING
FIRST ROUND
CYP M.Baghdatis/CRO G.Ivanisevic vs FRA M.Bahrami/FRA J.Benneteau
Men’s Legends
UPCOMING
FIRST ROUND
FRA G.Forget/GER T.Haas vs FRA A.Clement/FRA F.Santoro
Court SIMONNE-MATHIEU
Women’s Legends
FIRST ROUND
FRA T.Golovin/FRA N.Tauziat vs USA L.Davenport/USA MJ.Fernandez
Men’s Doubles
SEMIFINALS
Not before 12:00
ESA M. Arevalo (12)/NED JJ.Rojer (12) vs IND R.Bopanna (16)/NED M.Middelkoop (16)
Men’s Doubles
UPCOMING
SEMIFINALS
CRO I.Dodig/USA A.Krajicek vs ESP M. Granollers (4)/ARG H. Zeballos (4)
Court 14
Girls’ Singles
QUARTERFINALS
CZE S. Bejlek (10) vs --- M. Andreeva (14)
Boys’ Singles
UPCOMING
QUARTERFINALS
SVK PB. Privara vs FRA G. Debru (14)
Girls’ Doubles
UPCOMING
QUARTERFINALS
CZE S. Bejlek (1)/CZE L. Havlickova (1) vs CRO P. Marcinko (6)/DEN JC. Svendsen (6)
Girls’ Doubles
UPCOMING
QUARTERFINALS
USA L. Hovde (3)/USA Q. Lopez (3) vs CRO L. Ciric Bagaric (7)/BEL S. Costoulas (7)
Court 7
Girls’ Singles
QUARTERFINALS
CZE N. Bartunkova (13) vs SVK N. Daubnerova (12)
Boys’ Doubles
UPCOMING
QUARTERFINALS
USA N. Godsick/POR H. Rocha vs USA O.Colak/CAN J.Weekes
Boys’ Singles
UPCOMING
QUARTERFINALS
CRO D. Prizmic (10) vs ESP D.Merida Aguilar
Boys’ Doubles
UPCOMING
QUARTERFINALS
LTU E. Butvilas (1)/CRO M. Poljicak (1) vs CZE H.Barton/USA A.Kim
Court 6
Girls’ Singles
QUARTERFINALS
CZE L. Havlickova (9) vs CAN A. Xu
Boys’ Singles
UPCOMING
QUARTERFINALS
BEL GA. Bailly vs SUI D. Dietrich
Girls’ Doubles
UPCOMING
QUARTERFINALS
--- D. Shnaider (5)/BEL H. Vandewinkel (5) vs CZE N.Bartunkova (2)/SUI C. Naef (2)
Boys’ Doubles
UPCOMING
QUARTERFINALS
SUI D. Dietrich/TUR T. Tokac vs PER G. Bueno (2)/PER I. Buse (2)
Court 9
Boys’ Singles
QUARTERFINALS
POL M. Pawelski vs MEX R. Pacheco Mendez
Girls’ Singles
UPCOMING
QUARTERFINALS
ARG S. Sierra vs USA L. Hovde (6)
Boys’ Doubles
UPCOMING
QUARTERFINALS
USA A.Michelsen/USA M.Zheng vs SVK P.Nad/POL M.Pawelski
Girls’ Doubles
UPCOMING
QUARTERFINALS
SUI C.Fontenel/ARG S.Sierra vs FRA Y. Bartashevich (4)/--- K. Zaytseva (4)
Court 11
Quad Wheelchair Doubles
SEMIFINALS
NED S. Schroder (1) vs NED N. Vink (1) vs RSA D. Ramphadi/JPN K. Sugeno
Court 12
Quad Wheelchair Singles
QUARTERFINALS
JPN K.Sugeno vs AUS H.Davidson
Men’s Wheelchair Singles
UPCOMING
SEMIFINALS
JPN T. Oda vs JPN S. Kunieda (2)
Women’s Wheelchair Doubles
UPCOMING
QUARTERFINALS
JPN M.Ohtani/CHN Z.Zhu vs USA D.Mathewson/GBR L.Shuker
Men’s Wheelchair Doubles
UPCOMING
QUARTERFINALS
NED T.Egberink/BEL J.Gerard vs ARG G.Fernandez/JPN S.Kunieda
Court 13
Quad Wheelchair Singles
QUARTERFINALS
NED N. Vink (1) vs GBR A.Lapthorne
Men’s Wheelchair Singles
UPCOMING
SEMIFINALS
GBR A. Hewett (1) vs ARG G. Fernandez (3)
Women’s Wheelchair Doubles
UPCOMING
QUARTERFINALS
COL A.Bernal/NED J.Griffioen vs CHI M.Cabrillana/FRA E.Morch
Men’s Wheelchair Doubles
UPCOMING
QUARTERFINALS
FRA G.Laget/JPN T.Oda vs ESP D.Caverzaschi/ESP M.De La Puente
by ashkor87 nice to see Coco in both singles and doubs semis..
by Suliso Hard to imagine much drama today at least in singles.
by
ashkor87 Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:26 am
Hard to imagine much drama today at least in singles.
Agree..boring day today
by
Deuce ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:12 am
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:26 am
Hard to imagine much drama today at least in singles.
Agree..boring day today
I think Gauff vs. Trevisan could be interesting if Trevisan can hold her nerve and remain focused. While she is 10 years older than Cori, it is the younger player who has more experience in high profile matches.
That said, a semi of a Major is a new experience for Gauff, and that will bring a certain degree of nervousness. How well she controls that nervousness will be an important factor.
If both Trevisan and Gauff are equally nervous - or equally composed -, Gauff probably has the advantage in terms of talent. But the advantage of experience - things like shot selection, dealing with crowd reactions as they occur, etc. goes to Trevisan.
As I said - it has at least the potential to be interesting.
The other women's semi seems more one-sided to me.
But who knows? Kasatkina is not ranked outside of the top 100 or anything - she's a bona fide top player who has beaten some very good players over her career, and who has had a good past couple of months.
by
ashkor87 Deuce wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:27 am
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:12 am
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:26 am
Hard to imagine much drama today at least in singles.
Agree..boring day today
I think Gauff vs. Trevisan could be interesting if Trevisan can hold her nerve and remain focused. While she is 10 years older than Cori, it is the younger player who has more experience in high profile matches.
That said, a semi of a Major is a new experience for Gauff, and that will bring a certain degree of nervousness. How well she controls that nervousness will be an important factor.
If both Trevisan and Gauff are equally nervous - or equally composed -, Gauff probably has the experience in terms of talent. But the advantage of experience - things like shot selection, dealing with crowd reactions as they occur, etc. goes to Trevisan.
As I said - it has at least the potential to be interesting.
The other women's semi seems more one-sided to me.
But who knows? Kasatkina is not ranked outside of the top 100 or anything - she's a bona fide top player who has beaten some very good players over her career, and who has had a good past couple of months.
agree.. which is why the match is likely to be full of UFEs.. not high quality.. let us hope not, of course
by jazzyg Gauff might beat Trevisan easily if she continues to hit her groundstrokes like she has been doing, but she did double fault six times against Stephens and I could see her nerves costing her in the semi. I don't have a good feel for what will happen in this match.
I had Swiatek playing Kasatkina in the semis before the tournament started. Kasatkina is playing as well as she can possibly play. It will be one-way traffic if Swiatek controls her nerves, but if she doesn't, that match could be interesting for a set. Even if Swiatek is helping her out, though, I don't think Kasatkina will have the self belief or the game to win the points that matter.
This will be a good day to miss.
by ashkor87 Agree..Kasatkina doesn't have the kind of game that would bother Swiatek..Zheng did but unfortunately...
by
ponchi101 ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:12 am
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:26 am
Hard to imagine much drama today at least in singles.
Agree..boring day today
Unless, unless, Daria CAN produce high tennis and push Iga. In that case, it will be a day in which you have either zero drama, or a huge, spectacular, dramatic upset.
I say she has a 10% chance of producing it. I am watching.
by ponchi101 Well, seems like we will have plenty of time to do 20 Sudoku's, cook a 7 course meal, read WAR AND PEACE later in the day...
by Suliso This has been as one sided as it could possible be. Bakery products coming...
by ponchi101 Let me know when you get tired of my "Iga rules": One set, at a minimum, will be 0 or 1.
Now, the problem for Coco or Martina is that we know how she plays in finals, which is even better.
by ponchi101 BTW. Total points: 59/29. Iga doubled Kasatkina in points, plus one. That's insane.
by ashkor87 Coco doesn't keep the ball down enough on her passing shots..if Trevisan comes to the net often enough...
by ashkor87 Swiatek has taken the game to a different level..like Federer did when he burst upon the scene..the things she does, makes them look so easy, it is as if she is moving in a different dimension..
by ponchi101 I don't know. Comparing Iga to Roger is a bit extreme. She is clearly dominant now, but I don't think her style is truly that innovative, as she is a classic baseliner.
It is just that she is the best RIGHT NOW. I would put her far behind the Graf's, Seles' or Serena's of the history of the sport.
by Suliso Iga has to sustain this level and dominance for at least three years and win 4-6 Slams before we seriously start comparing her with those three.
by ponchi101 Trevisan is a very good example of "selective grunting". She does not do it all the time, and only on standard strokes.
She just played one point from side to side, and barely a noise, because she was busy getting to the ball.
Coco did talk to the chair about it.
by
ashkor87 ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 2:52 pm
Coco doesn't keep the ball down enough on her passing shots..if Trevisan comes to the net often enough...
Hmm..doing it quite well, and Trevisan is no Navratilova, I suppose
by ashkor87 Coco volleying very tentatively....
by ashkor87 Poor quality match so far
by Suliso I like Trevisan, but a GS final would be really asking for too much. Swiatek vs Gauff will be far more exciting.
by
meganfernandez ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:00 pm
I don't know. Comparing Iga to Roger is a bit extreme. She is clearly dominant now, but I don't think her style is truly that innovative, as she is a classic baseliner.
It is just that she is the best RIGHT NOW. I would put her far behind the Graf's, Seles' or Serena's of the history of the sport.
Wa aren't saying Alcaraz is the great
right now, and his style isn't innovative. And he has accomplished less than she has. But we are assuming he'll keep it up and win 10 Slams. Why don't we give the same benefit of the doubt to Iga?
Don't take this personally, but to me it's another subtle example of how we assume greatness from men and deny it to women until they prove it about 3x over. It's the default setting.
by
JazzNU ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:21 pm
Trevisan is a very good example of "selective grunting". She does not do it all the time, and only on standard strokes.
She just played one point from side to side, and barely a noise, because she was busy getting to the ball.
Coco did talk to the chair about it.
The chair should've told Coco to get over it (and I say this as someone who wants Coco to win). A Grand Slam semifinal is NOT the time to talk to a player about their grunting, you're trying to affect their play by bringing it up at that point. Davenport was not at all pleased with the timing in the tournament and recalled a time when the same thing happened with Seles and how much it affected her game in the final with her suddenly trying not do it.
I think if Trevisan is named Sharapova, the chair says nothing but to tell Coco, there's nothing she can do.
If something can be done about the grunting in general, I'm all for getting rid of it. I've never been a fan. But mid-tournament isn't the time when that's part of the game and routine that got you there and in particular, not at the tail end of a Grand Slam. I can't recall the time this was brought up to Sharapova, Sabalenka, or Azarenka this late in a tournament, let alone a Major.
by
Suliso meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:38 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:00 pm
I don't know. Comparing Iga to Roger is a bit extreme. She is clearly dominant now, but I don't think her style is truly that innovative, as she is a classic baseliner.
It is just that she is the best RIGHT NOW. I would put her far behind the Graf's, Seles' or Serena's of the history of the sport.
Wa aren't saying Alcaraz is the great
right now, and his style isn't innovative. And he has accomplished less than she has. But we are assuming he'll keep it up and win 10 Slams. Why don't we give the same benefit of the doubt to Iga?
No way we're assuming that about Alcaraz. 10 Slams is like 6th greatest player of all time.
by
meganfernandez Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:44 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:38 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:00 pm
I don't know. Comparing Iga to Roger is a bit extreme. She is clearly dominant now, but I don't think her style is truly that innovative, as she is a classic baseliner.
It is just that she is the best RIGHT NOW. I would put her far behind the Graf's, Seles' or Serena's of the history of the sport.
Wa aren't saying Alcaraz is the great
right now, and his style isn't innovative. And he has accomplished less than she has. But we are assuming he'll keep it up and win 10 Slams. Why don't we give the same benefit of the doubt to Iga?
No way we're assuming that about Alcaraz. 10 Slams is like 6th greatest player of all time.
Some informed people and experts are, absolutely. Even if we dial back the exaggeration, same point holds. No one is saying "not so fast" on Alcaraz. They have seen enough. Why not from Iga? Not everyone feels this way, of course, but it's a worthy examination. Part of the expectation for Alcaraz is the standard that the Big 3 just set - winning 10 seems normal now. But that's just part of it.
Some experts picked him to win it after last year's US Open! It's a common thing to accelerate and anticipate greatness of men, but not of women.
by ashkor87 I was speaking of HOW she plays! Not the number of majors she has won...
by
meganfernandez ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:05 pm
I was speaking of HOW she plays! Not the number of majors she has won...
Oh, I hadn't read your comments.
I just did and I like them! And I hope Ponchi knows I wasn't attacking or picking on him. The topic is top of mind because I was just reading about TV commentator's handling of Iga, similar thing. So another example along the same lines kind of hit me in the face. Iga and Alcaraz have been on similar trajectories this spring, same age, so the way we talk about them is a good case study. That's all. Plenty of people are saying great things about Iga, but it has occurred to me that we ride the brakes on her more than Alcaraz (whom I did not predict to make the final, personally).
by ashkor87 Trevisan just isn't a worthy semifinalist..there is always one iike that..this time it is Trevisan
by ponchi101 I think it is fairer to talk about Iga and start comparing her to the great ones, as opposed to Alcaraz, because she is already #1, has one slam, and is in the midst of a historic run.
And, as Ashkor says, him (and I) are talking about HOW she plays. I find her a very solid baseliner, but not innovative in the way that Graf (her FH), Seles (both wings), and Serena (the serve) were.
by ponchi101 Well, good win for Coco. And she has a shot at the final.
Also, Iga/Trevisan could have end up being a Graf/Zvereva final. Still, great tournament for Trevisan.
by
JazzNU meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:59 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:44 pm
No way we're assuming that about Alcaraz. 10 Slams is like 6th greatest player of all time.
Some informed people and experts are, absolutely. Even if we dial back the exaggeration, same point holds. No one is saying "not so fast" on Alcaraz. They have seen enough. Why not from Iga? Not everyone feels this way, of course, but it's a worthy examination. Part of the expectation for Alcaraz is the standard that the Big 3 just set - winning 10 seems normal now. But that's just part of it.
Some experts picked him to win it after last year's US Open! It's a common thing to accelerate and anticipate greatness of men, but not of women.
I'm curious, what experts have you been hearing say that? I've seen a ton of excitement of course, but I've mostly seen it as, there's finally something to look forward to where men's tennis can now comfortably move away from the Big 3. I haven't heard a thing about him entering into upper echelon of the greatest to ever play list with 10 slams.
by Suliso On the other hand are any of Djokovic's shots innovative? I'd say no, but hardly any weaknesses.
by
martini4me meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:59 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:44 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:38 pm
Wa aren't saying Alcaraz is the great
right now, and his style isn't innovative. And he has accomplished less than she has. But we are assuming he'll keep it up and win 10 Slams. Why don't we give the same benefit of the doubt to Iga?
No way we're assuming that about Alcaraz. 10 Slams is like 6th greatest player of all time.
Some informed people and experts are, absolutely. Even if we dial back the exaggeration, same point holds. No one is saying "not so fast" on Alcaraz. They have seen enough. Why not from Iga? Not everyone feels this way, of course, but it's a worthy examination. Part of the expectation for Alcaraz is the standard that the Big 3 just set - winning 10 seems normal now. But that's just part of it.
Some experts picked him to win it after last year's US Open! It's a common thing to accelerate and anticipate greatness of men, but not of women.
One thing you're not factoring in is that Alcaraz is three years younger than Swiatek. And, given that, in general, women rise up at a younger age than men, he's four to six years farther from hitting his "peak" than Swiatek.
by
ponchi101 Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:18 pm
On the other hand are any of Djokovic's shots innovative? I'd say no, but hardly any weaknesses.
His BH is exceptional. His capacity to bunt the ball with power is almost unique, plus his capacity to hit is with pace when he is fully stretched is also very much only his.
Plus, what you say. No weaknesses.
by
martini4me martini4me wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:21 pm
One thing you're not factoring in is that Alcaraz is three years younger than Swiatek. And, given that, in general, women rise up at a younger age than men, he's four to six years farther from hitting his "peak" than Swiatek.
Oops, it's only two years (I thought I had read that she just turned 22, which should have struck me as wrong, as she was a teenager when she previously won the French). But just as with prospects in other sports, two years makes a big difference in projections (not that anything is sure to work out).
by Suliso There were optimistic projections about Tsitsipas and Zverev too.
by
meganfernandez martini4me wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:21 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:59 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:44 pm
No way we're assuming that about Alcaraz. 10 Slams is like 6th greatest player of all time.
Some informed people and experts are, absolutely. Even if we dial back the exaggeration, same point holds. No one is saying "not so fast" on Alcaraz. They have seen enough. Why not from Iga? Not everyone feels this way, of course, but it's a worthy examination. Part of the expectation for Alcaraz is the standard that the Big 3 just set - winning 10 seems normal now. But that's just part of it.
Some experts picked him to win it after last year's US Open! It's a common thing to accelerate and anticipate greatness of men, but not of women.
One thing you're not factoring in is that Alcaraz is three years younger than Swiatek. And, given that, in general, women rise up at a younger age than men, he's four to six years farther from hitting his "peak" than Swiatek.
He is two years younger. He just turned 19 and she just turned 21. (Sorry, didn't see your comment on this until I posted mine.) I did think they were the same age or a year apart. But I'd still categorize both of them as "pretty young" and more similar than different in terms of stage of development. I don't think that explains the disparity in expectations based on current performance. The one thing I didn't acknowledge is that Alcaraz beat Nadal and Djokovic on clay, which upped his stock significantly. Unfortunately for Swiatek, there isn't an equivalent challenge on the WTA right now.
by
meganfernandez ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:27 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:18 pm
On the other hand are any of Djokovic's shots innovative? I'd say no, but hardly any weaknesses.
His BH is exceptional. His capacity to bunt the ball with power is almost unique, plus his capacity to hit is with pace when he is fully stretched is also very much only his.
Plus, what you say. No weaknesses.
His return is pretty world-class. A lot of intangibles, too. A high-level player pointed out to me Djokovic's ability to adapt to any playing conditions and opponents.
by JazzNU Djokovic's movement is innovative, the stretches he gets to reach the ball that are a bit different than being fast or quick. Not sure if it was a thing said much on international broadcasts, but he was often referred to as Gumby like on US broadcasts for many, many years.
by
patrick JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:42 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:21 pm
Trevisan is a very good example of "selective grunting". She does not do it all the time, and only on standard strokes.
She just played one point from side to side, and barely a noise, because she was busy getting to the ball.
Coco did talk to the chair about it.
The chair should've told Coco to get over it (and I say this as someone who wants Coco to win). A Grand Slam semifinal is NOT the time to talk to a player about their grunting, you're trying to affect their play by bringing it up at that point. Davenport was not at all pleased with the timing in the tournament and recalled a time when the same thing happened with Seles and how much it affected her game in the final with her suddenly trying not do it.
I think if Trevisan is named Sharapova, the chair says nothing but to tell Coco, there's nothing she can do.
If something can be done about the grunting in general, I'm all for getting rid of it. I've never been a fan. But mid-tournament isn't the time when that's part of the game and routine that got you there and in particular, not at the tail end of a Grand Slam. I can't recall the time this was brought up to Sharapova, Sabalenka, or Azarenka this late in a tournament, let alone a Major.
Why not? Trevisan's opponents should have brought this up in prior rounds.
by
JazzNU patrick wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:55 pm
Why not? Trevisan's opponents should have brought this up in prior rounds.
Because it's unfair to set a new standard in the semifinals of a tournament. Again, please show me the time they did this to Sharapova or Azarenka in one of their GS semifinal matches.
by
ponchi101 The chair, and the tour should have brought this up before.
Like, around 1991, when Seles came into the tour
By now, that horse has left the county, and is neighing far, far away.
(I am joking
)
by
JazzNU ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:13 pm
The chair, and the tour should have brought this up before.
Like, around 1991, when Seles came into the tour
By now, that horse has left the county, and is neighing far, far away.
(I am joking
)
There was a point a number of years ago when Sharapova was established and I want to say Azaranka was rising, that they talked about addressing it in juniors. I don't remember what came of that. Maybe not as much as they hoped, but it also may have yielded some results since we do seem to have less than we were averaging 10 years ago. There was a highly ranked junior at the time who reportedly put both Sharapova and Azarenka's grunts to shame that was part of the conversation of trying to address the problem. She didn't have the pro career people thought she would, so it didn't push the convo forward the way they thought it would.
I couldn't remember a first name, but Google helped me out. The junior I was referencing was Michelle Larcher de Brito.
by ponchi101 Larcher de Brito was a truck full of hogs being taken to the slaughterhouse. Her shrieks were insane.
The problem, the way I saw it, was that after every match the opponents would be asked if they were distracted or affected by the screams (Sharapova and Azarenka) and they would say "No, I was focused on my game", so the circuit really could not come to the guilty parts and say "you have to cut it out, it is bothering your opponents". They had claimed that it had not.
I went by Roddick's observation. If he could serve 140 MPH serves in perfect silence, grunting after every point was not needed.
by
patrick JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:13 pm
patrick wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:55 pm
Why not? Trevisan's opponents should have brought this up in prior rounds.
Because it's unfair to set a new standard in the semifinals of a tournament. Again, please show me the time they did this to Sharapova or Azarenka in one of their GS semifinal matches.
Guess we agree to disagree as my position remains steadfast. Nadal only gets time violation warning when serving at crucial times instead of the beginning of the match.
by
jazzyg meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:38 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:00 pm
I don't know. Comparing Iga to Roger is a bit extreme. She is clearly dominant now, but I don't think her style is truly that innovative, as she is a classic baseliner.
It is just that she is the best RIGHT NOW. I would put her far behind the Graf's, Seles' or Serena's of the history of the sport.
Wa aren't saying Alcaraz is the great
right now, and his style isn't innovative. And he has accomplished less than she has. But we are assuming he'll keep it up and win 10 Slams. Why don't we give the same benefit of the doubt to Iga?
Don't take this personally, but to me it's another subtle example of how we assume greatness from men and deny it to women until they prove it about 3x over. It's the default setting.
I see your point, but I don't even think Swiatek would have been the best player this year if Barty had kept playing. The best player on clay, yes. But Swiatek's game on faster courts, even with all of the tournaments she won in a row, is not as good as Barty's was at the Aussie Open this year or Wimbledon last year. If she also wins Wimbledon (unlikely in my opinion) or the U.S. Open (much more likely), then we're talking.
by ponchi101 Suliso said it best. Who knows what very good rivalry we were robbed of with Barty's retirement.
by
meganfernandez jazzyg wrote:meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:38 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:00 pm
I don't know. Comparing Iga to Roger is a bit extreme. She is clearly dominant now, but I don't think her style is truly that innovative, as she is a classic baseliner.
It is just that she is the best RIGHT NOW. I would put her far behind the Graf's, Seles' or Serena's of the history of the sport.
Wa aren't saying Alcaraz is the great
right now, and his style isn't innovative. And he has accomplished less than she has. But we are assuming he'll keep it up and win 10 Slams. Why don't we give the same benefit of the doubt to Iga?
Don't take this personally, but to me it's another subtle example of how we assume greatness from men and deny it to women until they prove it about 3x over. It's the default setting.
I see your point, but I don't even think Swiatek would have been the best player this year if Barty had kept playing. The best player on clay, yes. But Swiatek's game on faster courts, even with all of the tournaments she won in a row, is not as good as Barty's was at the Aussie Open this year or Wimbledon last year. If she also wins Wimbledon (unlikely in my opinion) or the U.S. Open (much more likely), then we're talking.
We’ll never know. She didn’t get a chance to prove it. She won the Sunshine Double so I give her the benefit of the doubt and say she would have been competitive at least, and for all we know, won. We can’t judge players against who they didn’t get to play.
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meganfernandez ponchi101 wrote:Suliso said it best. Who knows what very good rivalry we were robbed of with Barty's retirement.
I’m still mad at Barty. I was soooo looking forward to seeing them play on clay. Was thinking about it the week Barty retired.
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Deuce ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:47 pm
Larcher de Brito was a truck full of hogs being taken to the slaughterhouse. Her shrieks were insane.
The problem, the way I saw it, was that after every match the opponents would be asked if they were distracted or affected by the screams (Sharapova and Azarenka) and they would say "No, I was focused on my game", so the circuit really could not come to the guilty parts and say "you have to cut it out, it is bothering your opponents". They had claimed that it had not.
I went by Roddick's observation. If he could serve 140 MPH serves in perfect silence, grunting after every point was not needed.
Rather than ask the opponents, they should ask the fans if the screaming bothers them. They're the ones who pay to attend the matches, and so should be able to have a say in the matter.
Even ask the fans that are watching on TV, as they are paying (through cable, streaming bills, etc.) to watch. Pressing the 'mute' button is not an option, because I want to hear the balls hitting the strings - and I even want to hear the commentators - when they say something insightful or interesting.
Grunting on a shot where you're running or stretching is fine... but yelling or screaming on every bloody routine shot is absolutely ridiculous. There is no valid reason for it at all.
Robin Haase lost a point for grunting loudly because his opponent was grunting in an exaggerated manner on every shot. Haase decided,
suddenly in the middle of a point, to start doing the same thing. He got just one loud grunt out before the umpire called him for 'hindrance'!
I would have called the supervisor, as there should not be a double standard - if my opponent can do it on every bloody shot, then I can do it whenever I want, as well.
Here's the brief story, with video...
Haase Loses Point For Sarcastic Grunting...
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by jazzyg I agree with this. The screaming/grunting/whatever you want to call it drives me nuts, and in my case, forces me to hit the mute button even though I like listening to the announcers. I heard very little of what was said in Trevisan's fourth round and quarterfinal matches because I could not take her noise.
I've always felt like the tours ignored fans on this topic, but I've come to accept it because I'm positive nothing will ever change. If they've kept their heads in the sand this long, they won't change now.
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ponchi101 I watch entire matches with the MUTE on, but that is because of Clerc's commentating
But I watched Azarenka/Sharapova (Aussie final, long tome ago) with the mute on because of the screaming. Azarenka's was equally annoying, compared to Sharapova.