Talk About Tennis 2.0

ti-amie wrote:I haven't found out who said what that started this conversation but we talked about it a bit yesterday (


PS: Also don’t use the Big 4 as alibi for this recurring format obsession. Really. Those four guys are the ultimate tennis warriors: they wanna take those GS fights with the young guns until the end. That’s part of the greatness testing process, and they know it.

It is this article from Simon Briggs . But more this quote
“ men's grand slams must be three sets - it is the only way to save Roger Federer and Andy Murray”






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ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:20 am I haven't found out who said what that started this conversation but we talked about it a bit yesterday (Thursday).

PS: Also don’t use the Big 4 as alibi for this recurring format obsession. Really. Those four guys are the ultimate tennis warriors: they wanna take those GS fights with the young guns until the end. That’s part of the greatness testing process, and they know it.

It's never a good idea to evaluate the rules or formats through the lens of any particular player. It's useful as input and as a mirror for a standard, but it's not the ultimate case study. Hope the tennis world resists this urge (and click bait).

As far as the idea - yes! I want the men and women to play the same format at joint events, whatever that is. And practically, it probably can't be B5 for all of them the whole 2 weeks. That's my starting point - same format. My starting point isn't the ideal result of week 1 men's matches - preserving the potential for 5-set matches.

I remember the lull in 2000-2002, when we had the likes of Kafelnikov, Enquist, Corretja and a few others as the top players in the world. Hewitt was #1 for two years, winning his two slams. They were all very good players but nothing even close to what we started to see in 2003 with Roger ascending and then in 2005 Rafa joining him (2008 Nole).
There has got to be a peak somewhere and sometime. We will not see an endless progress of the quality of tennis because there is a limit. Notice the serve: it has stabilize, for almost everybody, at 130MPH TOPS for the first, 105MPH for the second (for the top players). Notice how serve and volley players no longer can make it. The sport is reaching homeostasis.
We will see very good tennis always. The players are that good. But perhaps we have been fortunate to have lived through the era of Leonardo, Michelangelo, Rafael and two more greats.
(And no, I am not talking TMNT )

I deleted my post because omess had already posted the article.

Has Murray ever advocated for a change of format? I think the ATP has done enough to make its rankings a joke without using one player to justify a change of format that would benefit him. As for the young guns not being able to navigate five set matches let them figure it out. We'd see less tantrums and more intelligent play.

Omess wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:49 am
It is this article from Simon Briggs . But more this quote
“ men's grand slams must be three sets - it is the only way to save Roger Federer and Andy Murray”

This is behind a paywall for me, so thank you for posting that quote. It was not what I was expecting from that article title and blurb.

That's a ridiculous reasoning. Roger and Andy will be retired within a year regardless of how many sets are played anywhere. Nothing lasts forever.

What Deuce referenced in another thread:

And of course Stef makes it all about him. As if winning the way the Big 3 have been winning didn't involve sacrifice and pain. Like someone said, that family will be the Djokovic's of Next Gen.

When they learn how to think and pace themselves for five sets get back to me.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:43 am What Deuce referenced in another thread:

It was actually yesterday in this thread that I commented about it.
And very briefly today in the Dubai thread.

And I still think that what Denis (who has more than enough money to live several very comfortable lifetimes) says is extremely greedy and completely ridiculous.

I will cut him some slack because he is young and he has obviously never been exposed to certain realities.
I think it was Barbara Jordan. Ages ago, she was feeling a bit burnout. She wrote to a friend about the drag of the tour, how tough it was. The friend sent her a fax (those days) with a copy of her weekly check. Jordan said it put a lot in perspective.
This may be a result of how these players are brought up. The amazing tunnel vision that you need to focus on this sport precludes you from certain world views.
Just playing devil's advocate because of course, the comments about his lack of understanding are all correct.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:42 am I will cut him some slack because he is young and he has obviously never been exposed to certain realities.
I think it was Barbara Jordan. Ages ago, she was feeling a bit burnout. She wrote to a friend about the drag of the tour, how tough it was. The friend sent her a fax (those days) with a copy of her weekly check. Jordan said it put a lot in perspective.
This may be a result of how these players are brought up. The amazing tunnel vision that you need to focus on this sport precludes you from certain world views.
Just playing devil's advocate because of course, the comments about his lack of understanding are all correct.

I don't buy that (highlighted portion)... These players get to travel to many different countries on the planet - even as Juniors. If anything, they are thus MORE exposed to many things in the world - including problems - than most people are. As such, they should be more aware, not less.

It's very disappointing to have read that from Denis. Shocking, really. I would expect these kind of comments from someone who is completely self-absorbed, like Rios, etc. Very sad that Denis is so selfish. He comes across as an ignoramus and a prima-donna.

Sure. They get to travel a lot. To a whole lot of places with very few problems. They don't have tournaments in Afghanistan, or as you said, Yemen. It is NYC, London, Paris, Melbourne, one 5 star hotel after another. They get their first million dollar contract at 16, they do not know that limousines are not standard methods of transportation.
Don't get me wrong. The statement is very shallow. But he is very young and inexperienced. Somebody in his team could be of help, if somebody would want to talk to him about some realities.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:51 am Sure. They get to travel a lot. To a whole lot of places with very few problems. They don't have tournaments in Afghanistan, or as you said, Yemen. It is NYC, London, Paris, Melbourne, one 5 star hotel after another. They get their first million dollar contract at 16, they do not know that limousines are not standard methods of transportation.

^ I think the sheer notion of traveling to many different countries inherently opens one's eyes to different cultures, different ways of living, etc. - even if they aren't playing in Yemen.
If the average 21 year old knows that there are places on this planet where children are dying of starvation, then I believe that a 21 year old tennis player, who has traveled much more than the average 21 year old, should know at least that much.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:51 am Don't get me wrong. The statement is very shallow. But he is very young and inexperienced. Somebody in his team could be of help, if somebody would want to talk to him about some realities.

^ Isn't that what parents are for?
I mean, hell, his parents came to Canada from Russia - or the Soviet Union - in order to have a better life, didn't they? So how can Denis not be aware of 'worse lives' than the life of luxury he is enjoying?

In addition to being paid obscene amounts of money to hit a ball over a net and to wear certain clothes, these players are incredibly spoiled at every tournament they go to. Tournament organizers give them everything they want - and more. Any player who complains that all the money and all the luxuries they are getting is 'not enough' very desperately needs a lesson in reality, at the very least.

When was the last time we had two women playing one handed backhand reach the final in the same week? There are very few of those.