Talk About Tennis 2.0

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:27 pm uld be isolated, of course. And it was very clear from the beginning that he was not vaccinated and that his exemption status would be based on bogus claims (chronical health issues would be ridiculous for a player of his caliber). Heck, we know of about 50 people in the world that called this on him (we did).
But he should not be detained at that location. He is an absolute no flight risk, and anyway, it is not as if he has intentions to stay in Australia as an illegal alien. He has enough money to put down a credit card and rent an entire hotel and be isolated there, if allowed to do so. In that aspect, I would grant him a small leeway.
If his father had shown up, on the other hand, the Aussie version of Alcatraz.

He'd be happy to rent a house, too. I agree, let him stay somewhere else if he wants to. Doesn't hurt anyone. But it helps his martyr image to stick it out with the other asylum-seekers.

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:29 pm

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:27 pm uld be isolated, of course. And it was very clear from the beginning that he was not vaccinated and that his exemption status would be based on bogus claims (chronical health issues would be ridiculous for a player of his caliber). Heck, we know of about 50 people in the world that called this on him (we did).
But he should not be detained at that location. He is an absolute no flight risk, and anyway, it is not as if he has intentions to stay in Australia as an illegal alien. He has enough money to put down a credit card and rent an entire hotel and be isolated there, if allowed to do so. In that aspect, I would grant him a small leeway.
If his father had shown up, on the other hand, the Aussie version of Alcatraz.

He'd be happy to rent a house, too. I agree, let him stay somewhere else if he wants to. Doesn't hurt anyone. But it helps his martyr image to stick it out with the other asylum-seekers.

He's given no reason to be trusted he would follow the rules of staying at a house instead of where he's being held. It would also be perceived as special treatment, which is ultimately what's at the heart of the issue of him being in Australia.

Oh, sure, but if he as much as walks out the door of his room, then I say prison. But Megan's comment of how he is becoming a martyr for the anti-vaxx crowd is spot on.

Sorry to disagree here, but technically he is not in Australia, so he needs to stay in whatever location the government holds people who have not been admitted to the country. If he doesn't like the accommodations, he is free to leave the country.

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:29 pm

He'd be happy to rent a house, too. I agree, let him stay somewhere else if he wants to. Doesn't hurt anyone. But it helps his martyr image to stick it out with the other asylum-seekers.

You're asking that Novak get special treatment because of who he is. He's not being kept where he is because he's a flight risk, but because this is part of their protocol for detainment for those who enter in this manner. He's being treated like everyone else.

Him renting a house is tantamount to him being given passage into the country.

Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:58 am I kind of agree. He should not have been given the visa in the first place instead of all this theatre.

Counterpoint - when you knowingly break the entry laws of the country you enter, it is on you what happens when you get caught in the act of breaking the law.

Not saying this couldn't have been handled better, but the moment Australia set out their rules for visiting foreigners, Novak knew what was required to enter. Putting the blame on others for Novak starting from jump attempting to circumvent the law shouldn't happen. But for Novak lying to secure his medical exemption, he's not in this situation. Make no mistake, he created this situation, no one else did, thru his dishonest actions.

Also realize that the theatre that is occurring is taking place because of Novak's celebrity and only that. Is tennis player we've never heard of causing theatre of any kind? Because if he doesn't flaunt circumventing those laws to his millions of social media followers, he was bragging with that photo he posted, then he's likely past border check like the other players were.

If they let him stay at the house he'd already rented he would then have entered the country and that would (could) shift the legal argument a bit. He is being held outside of the country at this point and unless he is given special treatment, should stay where he is.

A long time member of Tennis Twitter took the time to circumvent the paywall of this Murdoch owned outlet so that we can all see the correspondance between Tiley/TA and the Australian government. It's clear Tiley came up with a scheme to circumvent his own government's immigration policies re the virus. That Voracova will leave and the official involved has already left says it all.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:17 pm A long time member of Tennis Twitter took the time to circumvent the paywall of this Murdoch owned outlet so that we can all see the correspondance between Tiley/TA and the Australian government. It's clear Tiley came up with a scheme to circumvent his own government's immigration policies re the virus. That Voracova will leave and the official involved has already left says it all.

He should be fired for all of this. But will he be? Seems like he knows where the bodies are buried, his tenure rarely seems in doubt.

JazzNU wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:22 pm

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:17 pm A long time member of Tennis Twitter took the time to circumvent the paywall of this Murdoch owned outlet so that we can all see the correspondence between Tiley/TA and the Australian government. It's clear Tiley came up with a scheme to circumvent his own government's immigration policies re the virus. That Voracova will leave and the official involved has already left says it all.

He should be fired for all of this. But will he be? Seems like he knows where the bodies are buried, his tenure rarely seems in doubt.

The longer this goes the more obvious it becomes that Tiley should be cited for violating his countries laws. But this is tennis

As you say. One thing is trying to bring the defending champion in, another is going to this length to ensure he us in by circumventing the law.
Fired from the job seems tame. I gather at least some very strict talks between him, BF, and immigration people.

atlpam wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:33 pm Sorry to disagree here, but technically he is not in Australia, so he needs to stay in whatever location the government holds people who have not been admitted to the country. If he doesn't like the accommodations, he is free to leave the country.

well, that's true. He technically hasn't been admitted to the country.

JazzNU wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:58 pm

Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:58 am I kind of agree. He should not have been given the visa in the first place instead of all this theatre.

Counterpoint - when you knowingly break the entry laws of the country you enter, it is on you what happens when you get caught in the act of breaking the law.

Not saying this couldn't have been handled better, but the moment Australia set out their rules for visiting foreigners, Novak knew what was required to enter. Putting the blame on others for Novak starting from jump attempting to circumvent the law shouldn't happen. But for Novak lying to secure his medical exemption, he's not in this situation. Make no mistake, he created this situation, no one else did, thru his dishonest actions.

Also realize that the theatre that is occurring is taking place because of Novak's celebrity and only that. Is tennis player we've never heard of causing theatre of any kind? Because if he doesn't flaunt circumventing those laws to his millions of social media followers, he was bragging with that photo he posted, then he's likely past border check like the other players were.

BTW thanks for the visual representation of FaFo

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:17 pm A long time member of Tennis Twitter took the time to circumvent the paywall of this Murdoch owned outlet so that we can all see the correspondance between Tiley/TA and the Australian government. It's clear Tiley came up with a scheme to circumvent his own government's immigration policies re the virus. That Voracova will leave and the official involved has already left says it all.

Crux of the article is that Tennis Australia didn't tell the state of Victoria that they knew the feds didn't consider prior Covid to be a valid exemption. TA should have, but also Victorian officials should have checked with the feds and not taken TA's word for it.

The ATAGI guidelines say that having Covid within since months is a valid reason for a medical exemption, so I don't know why the feds told TA it isn't. That's accurate as of late November 2021, per the lateset ATAGI guidelines on its website. Doesn't say anything about requiring a vaccine shot on top of that. It's still possible that the border force didn't find Djokovic's supporting documents convincing, but why are they overruling doctors on medical merits?

This is interesting - the article above says that TA told the players in its letter:
--"Recent PCR-confirmed COVID-19 infection (after 31 July 2021), where vaccination can be deferred until six months after the infection" is a valid reason for a medical exemption. But also: "The current ATAGI guidance for those who have had a recent COVID infection is to be vaccinated once you have recovered from the acute illness." (I actually don't see this in the current ATAGI guidelines, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place.)
--TA recently said: “The purpose of this document was to explain eligibility to participate in the AO under Victorian laws which required that an exemption be in line with the ATAGI guidance.
--The ATAGI guidelines (in TA's letter) contradict the statement that a PCR-confirmed infection = exemption. No, ATAGI still says get the shot as soon as you're well.

I dunno Megan. "Your word is your bond". Tiley has been working with various governments of Victoria for years I would imagine and he's always played it straight with them. There was no reason for them to check. I'm sure they never thought he'd try and play them like this. His actions are going to result in future governments looking over the shoulder of whoever is Tournament Director going forward and nitpicking everything.