by ti-amie Time to start his topic.
by
ti-amie LEADERBOARD
https://www.nextgenatpfinals.com/
1 ESP Carlos Alcaraz Withdrawn 6460
2 Jannik Sinner ITA Withdrawn 2310
3 Lorenzo Musetti ITA 1356
4 Holger Rune DEN 1338
5 Jack Draper GBR 925
6 Brandon Nakashima USA 867
7 Jiri Lehecka CZE 610
8 Chun-Hsin Tseng TPE 490
9 Francesco Passaro ITA 441
10 Dominic Stricker SUI 390
11 Luca Nardi ITA 385
12 Filip Misolic AUT 370
13 Timofey Skatov KAZ 343
14 Matteo Arnaldi ITA 341
15 Ben Shelton USA 330
16 Giulio Zeppieri ITA 328
by
Deuce ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 09, 2022 8:07 pm
LEADERBOARD
https://www.nextgenatpfinals.com/
1 ESP Carlos Alcaraz Withdrawn 6460
2 Jannik Sinner ITA Withdrawn 2310
3 Lorenzo Musetti ITA 1356
4 Holger Rune DEN 1338
5 Jack Draper GBR 925
6 Brandon Nakashima USA 867
7 Jiri Lehecka CZE 610
8 Chun-Hsin Tseng TPE 490
9 Francesco Passaro ITA 441
10 Dominic Stricker SUI 390
11 Luca Nardi ITA 385
12 Filip Misolic AUT 370
13 Timofey Skatov KAZ 343
14 Matteo Arnaldi ITA 341
15 Ben Shelton USA 330
16 Giulio Zeppieri ITA 328
They are caught between having LEGITIMATE
next generation players and needing to have some recognizable names who have been around for a few years, and who are no longer of the next generation, but are of the current generation.
by Suliso What are the official criteria actually? Outside the top 10 and 21 and under?
by
ponchi101 Outside the top 10, under 21, and still not that good?
by
ti-amie ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:37 pm
Outside the top 10, under 21, and still not that good?
Damn dude.
by
meganfernandez ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:43 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:37 pm
Outside the top 10, under 21, and still not that good?
Damn dude.
You have to be dating an influencer, too.
by ponchi101 Serious here. What happens if all of the sudden, the Next Gen moves up and we have 18 yo Slam champions happening again, as when Becker and Edberg won Wimby and the Aussie at 17? How does it look when the Next Gen champion is OLDER than the current #1, which could happen this year? Musetti, Brooksby and Draper are older than Carlitos.
Do we go for UNDER 18, then? Because that is the Juniors.
Was this event created solely to respond to the oddity of Roger/Rafa/Nole being so dominant for so long, at older ages? And now, it becomes meaningless?
by ti-amie Good question. It seems the WTA has quietly retired its Elite Cup or whatever it was called. The ATP may end up doing the same thing.
by Deuce The fact it states that Alcaraz withdrew means that he qualifies for 'Next Gen' - also meaning that they don't have to be outside of the top 10.
Musetti has been around long enough on the tour that I certainly consider him part of the current crop, not the 'next gen'...
I doubt there is any official criteria for entry - or, if there is, I think it's largely ignored. They'll take whoever they can get at this point.
As for the purpose of the 'next gen' event... well, I think that's rather obviou$.
by
3mlm Deuce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:20 pm
The fact it states that Alcaraz withdrew means that he qualifies for 'Next Gen' - also meaning that they don't have to be outside of the top 10.
Musetti has been around long enough on the tour that I certainly consider him part of the current crop, not the 'next gen'...
I doubt there is any official criteria for entry - or, if there is, I think it's largely ignored. They'll take whoever they can get at this point.
As for the purpose of the 'next gen' event... well, I think that's rather obviou$.
The ATP site says
Updated after every match completes, the Pepperstone ATP Live Race To Milan is a calendar-year points race of players aged 21 and under throughout the year that determines who qualifies for the eight-player Intesa Sanpaolo Next Gen ATP Finals.
The eight players aged 21 and younger before the end of the year with the most ATP ranking points qualify unless, of course, they withdraw and are replaced with the ninth player and then tenth, etc. I'm not aware of any deviation from those criteria in previous Next Gen ATP Finals.
And the purpose of all ATP and WTA tennis events is just as "obviou$." Isn't that the purpose of all professional sports? So if it doesn't make money they might drop it.
by
Deuce 3mlm wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 6:21 am
Deuce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:20 pm
The fact it states that Alcaraz withdrew means that he qualifies for 'Next Gen' - also meaning that they don't have to be outside of the top 10.
Musetti has been around long enough on the tour that I certainly consider him part of the current crop, not the 'next gen'...
I doubt there is any official criteria for entry - or, if there is, I think it's largely ignored. They'll take whoever they can get at this point.
As for the purpose of the 'next gen' event... well, I think that's rather obviou$.
The ATP site says
Updated after every match completes, the Pepperstone ATP Live Race To Milan is a calendar-year points race of players aged 21 and under throughout the year that determines who qualifies for the eight-player Intesa Sanpaolo Next Gen ATP Finals.
The eight players aged 21 and younger before the end of the year with the most ATP ranking points qualify unless, of course, they withdraw and are replaced with the ninth player and then tenth, etc. I'm not aware of any deviation from those criteria in previous Next Gen ATP Finals.
And the purpose of all ATP and WTA tennis events is just as "obviou$." Isn't that the purpose of all professional sports? So if it doesn't make money they might drop it.
While one goal of regular tournaments is to make money, the ‘Next Gen’ thing, the ‘ATP Cup’, the ‘Laver Cup’, the upcoming ‘United Cup’, etc., etc. - are all new, they are full of gimmicks, they screw around with the rules and scoring systems, and are all, in my mind, certainly money-making exhibitions first and foremost.
As such, they are very different from regular tournaments.
Thanks for looking up the 'next gen' criteria, though.
by Owendonovan I think the top 2 qualifiers bailing speaks volumes about the importance they feel this tourney is.
by ponchi101 Well, but different tournaments mean different things for all players. For Carlitos or Jannik, this does not mean much. For Rune or Draper, it might mean more.
It is like local tournaments. I am sure that the Tallin tournament means more to Kontaveit than all other tournaments, excluding Slams. Cami said it: one of her dreams was winning the WTA Bogota.
I say that this was one of those over reactions to the extra long dominance of the Big 3. We will see younger champions again. Not necessarily at 18, but yes at 20. And it might be soon.
by
meganfernandez Owendonovan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:52 pm
I think the top 2 qualifiers bailing speaks volumes about the importance they feel this tourney is.
They would probably be embarrassed to take up a spot in this event AND the bigger Turin final. Better to give their spots in the Milan event to another young player who would qualify. They don't need this event, but some other young gun does.
by
Deuce ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:32 pm
Well, but different tournaments mean different things for all players. For Carlitos or Jannik, this does not mean much. For Rune or Draper, it might mean more.
It is like local tournaments. I am sure that the Tallin tournament means more to Kontaveit than all other tournaments, excluding Slams. Cami said it: one of her dreams was winning the WTA Bogota.
I say that this was one of those over reactions to the extra long dominance of the Big 3. We will see younger champions again. Not necessarily at 18, but yes at 20. And it might be soon.
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 5:17 pm
Owendonovan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:52 pm
I think the top 2 qualifiers bailing speaks volumes about the importance they feel this tourney is.
They would probably be embarrassed to take up a spot in this event AND the bigger Turin final. Better to give their spots in the Milan event to another young player who would qualify. They don't need this event, but some other young gun does.
Firstly, this 'next gen' thing is not a tournament. It's an exhibition. So to compare it to a real tournament doesn't make sense. It's an exhibition where they play around with the rules and scoring system to make it more 'attractive' to the people whose attention span is about 4 seconds.
Secondly, no-one 'needs' this exhibition. The tour existed fine without it for decades. It's just another gimmick designed to make extra money for the people in charge.
by
ti-amie Luca Fiorino
@FiorinoLuca
UFFICIALE
Matteo Arnaldi sostituisce Holger Rune alle
@nextgenfinals
Saranno tre gli italiani al via
Translated from Italian by Google
OFFICIAL
Matteo Arnaldi replaces Holger Rune at
@nextgenfinals
Three Italians will be at the start
by JazzNU Great photo, but the nature of NextGen means that this isn't the most well known group just yet, so some names would've been nice. A second threaded post with all the qualifiers names from left to right feels like a very easy thing to do here if it wouldn't fit in the first post.
by ponchi101 We are tennis fans here, and I can only name Musseti, Draper and Nakashima. The other 5 I can't tell.
by
JazzNU ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:08 pm
We are tennis fans here, and I can only name Musseti, Draper and Nakashima. The other 5 I can't tell.
Right. I can only identify 2 (Musetti and Nakashima). I know Draper is there, but can I actually pick him out? No.
by skatingfan Interesting that in the top 25 ranked NextGen players there are 10 Italians.
by
meganfernandez ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:08 pm
We are tennis fans here, and I can only name Musseti, Draper and Nakashima. The other 5 I can't tell.
I only got Nakashima and thought Musetti was one of the Cerundalos. Never even heard of Passaro and Arnaldi.
With the Fast Four format, I'm going with a big server - Draper.
by
ti-amie Ponchi you didn't include "Not a Clue" as an option.
by
meganfernandez ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:53 pm
Ponchi you didn't include "Not a Clue" as an option.
Or "Other".
Could be the alternate!
by ti-amie Tuesday, November 08, 2022 Day 1
Centre Court Starts At 2:00 Pm
RR1
(5) Jiri Lehecka VS (8) Francesco Passaro
Not Before 3:00 Pm
RR1
(2) Lorenzo Musetti VS (6) Chun-Hsin Tseng
7:30 Pm
RR1
(9) Matteo Arnaldi VS (4) Brandon Nakashima
Followed By
RR1
(3) Jack Draper VS (7) Dominic Stricker
by
Deuce ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:32 pm
Tuesday, November 08, 2022 Day 1
Centre Court Starts At 2:00 Pm
RR1
(5) Jiri Lehecka VS (8) Francesco Passaro
Not Before 3:00 Pm
RR1
(2) Lorenzo Musetti VS (6) Chun-Hsin Tseng
7:30 Pm
RR1
(9) Matteo Arnaldi VS (4) Brandon Nakashima
Followed By
RR1
(3) Jack Draper VS (7) Dominic Stricker
So... Rune was to be the top seed, but because he pulled out (before the thing begins), there is no #1 seed, and the 8 players are seeded #2 to #9?
Seems stupid.
Yes, 5 of the 8 players are players whom a lot of us have never heard of or seen - or, if we have, it's been in a Challenger or similar, and we didn't retain the name.
If they're going to continue with this 'Next Gen' gimmick, I'd prefer that ALL the players be players that most people don't know. Hell, Musetti, Nakashima, and Draper have been playing top level tournaments for a while now - especially Musetti. We already know that they're good, and that they will likely improve.
I know they want the sponsor and fan money that the known names bring in... But if they made the 'Next Gen' thing for truly unknown players, it would be more interesting to guess which players will be playing top level tournaments in a few years.
by
meganfernandez Deuce wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:44 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:32 pm
Tuesday, November 08, 2022 Day 1
Centre Court Starts At 2:00 Pm
RR1
(5) Jiri Lehecka VS (8) Francesco Passaro
Not Before 3:00 Pm
RR1
(2) Lorenzo Musetti VS (6) Chun-Hsin Tseng
7:30 Pm
RR1
(9) Matteo Arnaldi VS (4) Brandon Nakashima
Followed By
RR1
(3) Jack Draper VS (7) Dominic Stricker
So... Rune was to be the top seed, but because he pulled out (before the thing begins), there is no #1 seed, and the 8 players are seeded #2 to #9?
Seems stupid.
It is soooo dumb that it makes me think there has to be a reason. Like some things were already printed up or something would have been hard to change. Or Rune gets a bonus for being the No. 1 seed at Next Gen, so they agreed to not let someone else have the seeding. I don't know, but something. Otherwise, whyyyyyy?
by ti-amie I think Megan has it right.
by
ponchi101 Because they are admitting that Rune is so good right now, compared to the rest of this field, that he still gets the #1 seed?
by
3mlm ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:08 pm
We are tennis fans here, and I can only name Musseti, Draper and Nakashima. The other 5 I can't tell.
Before looking it up, I could recognize Musetti, Draper, Nakashima, Tseng and Lehecka, but not the rest.
From left to right: Francesco Passaro, Chun-Hsin Tseng, Brandon Nakashima, Lorenzo Musetti, Jack Draper, Jiri Lehecka, Dominic Stricker and Matteo Arnaldi.
by JazzNU Re: Seeding
This is about how late Rune's withdraw is in the proceedings. So everything was ready to go when he became an alternate for the ATP Finals. I don't believe he gets a bonus for being #1, he's not the true #1 qualifier, so that doesn't seem like it would be a thing.
Last year, Sinner and FAA both qualified as the #1 and #2 players for the NextGen, but they withdrew ahead of time (I think Sinner was an ATP Finals alternate and ended up playing if memory serves). And in 2019, Tsitsipas qualified for the ATP Finals and withdrew from NextGen ahead of time. This year, Alcaraz and Sinner both qualified for NextGen, but Alcaraz qualified for ATP Finals long ago and withdrew, and Sinner withdrew early.
Rune is the only player that has caused this strange seeding among all that I've just mentioned, the other years had Seeds #1-8, so it has to be about the lateness of the withdraw. The groups were already drawn when he withdrew on Sunday, and the alternate went into Rune's spot in his designated group. So that's the difference and why they went with this. It's strange, but hopefully makes more sense.
by ti-amie Wednesday, November 09, 2022 Day 2
Centre Court Starts At 2:00 Pm
F.Passaro - Loser of B.Nakashima vs M.Arnaldi
Not Before 3:00 Pm
J.Lehecka - Winner of B.Nakashima vs M.Arnaldi
Not Before 7:30 Pm
C H.Tseng - Loser of J.Draper vs D.Stricker
Followed By
L.Musetti - Winner of J.Draper vs D.Stricker
by JazzNU I don't understand why they still have this gimmicky scoring. Make it a best of 3 regular scored sets. 10 point match tiebreak in the 3rd.
by Deuce As they are playing the game of tennis, they should use some form of real tennis scoring.
2 out of 3 regular tennis sets, with a tiebreak at 6-6 in each set. Period.
by
ponchi101 JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 10:32 pm
I don't understand why they still have this gimmicky scoring. Make it a best of 3 regular scored sets. 10 point match tiebreak in the 3rd.
At the very least, get rid of the NO AD.
My main peeve in tennis.
by ti-amie Thursday, November 10, 2022 Day 3
Centre Court Starts At 2:00 Pm
RR
(9) Matteo Arnaldi VS (5) Jiri Lehecka
Not Before 3:00 Pm
RR
(4) Brandon Nakashima VS (8) Francesco Passaro
Not Before 7:30 Pm
RR
(6) Chun-Hsin Tseng VS (7) Dominic Stricker
Followed By
RR
(2) Lorenzo Musetti VS (3) Jack Draper
by JazzNU Musetti getting his hat handed to him by Draper. Musetti may have injured himself, but that was a set and a break down into this drubbing.
by skatingfan 3 Italians qualify, and looks like non will reach the semis.
by JazzNU I have never heard of the two Italians not named Musetti before this week.
by ponchi101 Well, other than Musetti, they are ranked very low and made it in because of Carlitos and Holgër "graduated" already.
by ponchi101 These two matches should be played under a regular format. At a minimum.
The experiment has been done. I have yet to see one person that likes this format, or the format being adopted by other events. So, drop it.
by
skatingfan ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:09 pm
Well, other than Musetti, they are ranked very low and made it in because of Carlitos and Holgër "graduated" already.
The same is true for Stricker, and he made the semis.
by Deuce Musetti has been playing well over the past few months.
I hope his performance at this exhibition doesn't derail his progressive ascension, because he has loads of natural tennis ability (but a very fragile psyche).
by ti-amie Saturday, November 12, 2022 Day 5
Centre Court Starts At 9:00 Pm
F
(4) Brandon Nakashima VS (5) Jiri Lehecka
by ponchi101 That was a good win by Nakashima. Lehecka came out playing well, but the quality of game is not there at the level that Brandon's is.
Seeing that the sole NextGen champion that has not made it far was the first one (Hyeon Chung, basically because of injuries), this bodes well for Nakashima. At least become a force within the US tennis group.
by
ti-amie ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:27 pm
That was a good win by Nakashima. Lehecka came out playing well, but the quality of game is not there at the level that Brandon's is.
Seeing that the sole NextGen champion that has not made it far was the first one (Hyeon Chung, basically because of injuries), this bodes well for Nakashima. At least become a force within the US tennis group.
UFFICIALE 
