Talk About Tennis 2.0

JazzNU wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:36 pm

skatingfan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:53 pm

JazzNU wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:31 pm Who are you talking about?

Sabalenka, I think - as response to Deuce's post.

Thanks.

So Sabalenka is under no obligation to use her platform but also let's chastise her for not using her platform? And are we pretending like political opposition is accepted well in Belarus when the opposition leader was just convicted for trumped up BS?

Trust me, as someone who cannot go to see my family in Russia because of my own opposition activity potentially affecting them or my ability to leave the country, I very much understand these complexities. I think what Sabalenka said is insensitive. (She did previously say things that were, in my view, better phrased).

Sabalenka also signed a letter from athletes in support of Lukashenko, in August 2022 [EDITED - in late 2020, thanks, Skatingfan]. No other active Belarussian tennis players signed it (plenty from other sports, though).

Other than to write what I'm writing in this post, I'm not likely going to comment much, as I don't know enough of the particulars and details to feel I'm qualified to comment much.

I will say only that perhaps Sabalenka feels that she and/or her family will be punished if she doesn't support Lukashenko; that abstaining from supporting him would be viewed as being against him, and would bring some sort of punishment which would affect her tennis, and maybe even affect her life beyond tennis.
Should she be criticized if this is the case? Should she be criticized if she is too frightened to stand against a dictator?
I don't have the answers to these questions.

It's a complicated situation which existed before the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and whose roots extend a long way...

Athletes Unite to Fight Lukashenko...

Playing With Dictators Behind Closed Doors: Athletes Pay the Price...

.

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:35 am Sabalenka also signed a letter from athletes in support of Lukashenko, in August 2022. No other active Belarussian tennis players signed it (plenty from other sports, though).

I think the letter you're referring to dates to 2020, but maybe I'm confusing different letters. I only mention it because that would be before the invasion of Ukraine, and I think that context is important.

skatingfan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:03 am

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:35 am Sabalenka also signed a letter from athletes in support of Lukashenko, in August 2022. No other active Belarussian tennis players signed it (plenty from other sports, though).

I think the letter you're referring to dates to 2020, but maybe I'm confusing different letters. I only mention it because that would be before the invasion of Ukraine, and I think that context is important.

You're right. I screwed up there confusing the date it was sources for an article with the actual date. The letter was from fall 2020.

I would say it's not generally related to the invasion of Ukraine though, the domestic situation in Belarus is bad enough.

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:26 pm You're right. I screwed up there confusing the date it was sources for an article with the actual date. The letter was from fall 2020.

I would say it's not generally related to the invasion of Ukraine though, the domestic situation in Belarus is bad enough.

I just meant that the letter of support predated the war, and didn't want the two issues to be conflated.

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:26 pm

skatingfan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:03 am

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:35 am Sabalenka also signed a letter from athletes in support of Lukashenko, in August 2022. No other active Belarussian tennis players signed it (plenty from other sports, though).

I think the letter you're referring to dates to 2020, but maybe I'm confusing different letters. I only mention it because that would be before the invasion of Ukraine, and I think that context is important.

You're right. I screwed up there confusing the date it was sources for an article with the actual date. The letter was from fall 2020.

I would say it's not generally related to the invasion of Ukraine though, the domestic situation in Belarus is bad enough.

She also posted in support of the protestors in Belarus in 2020. Not sure how that went over given the later crackdown of those protestors and the opposition and if the signing the letter is part of trying to make that better. Or maybe she co-opted the other side's message, wouldn't be the first time. But that's not the sign to me that it is to you I guess that she did sign it, there aren't any other high profile Belarussian tennis players that actually live a large amount in Belarus. But regardless, I'm not a fan of don't blame her, but also, let's do blame her.

Maybe I missed where she made a statement in Russian? You said she's said things that have been better phrased, but doesn't this time around. Sabalenka's English is good enough, but it is far from that of a native speaker. She made some not that great, very unappreciative (imo) comments about her working with a psychologist in Melbourne and I chalked it up to her using a second language to communicate, because I generally give players a break when they do so (Novak as the exception, which I have stated many times).

JazzNU wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:55 pm

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:26 pm

skatingfan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:03 am

I think the letter you're referring to dates to 2020, but maybe I'm confusing different letters. I only mention it because that would be before the invasion of Ukraine, and I think that context is important.

You're right. I screwed up there confusing the date it was sources for an article with the actual date. The letter was from fall 2020.

I would say it's not generally related to the invasion of Ukraine though, the domestic situation in Belarus is bad enough.

She also posted in support of the protestors in Belarus in 2020. Not sure how that went over given the later crackdown of those protestors and the opposition and if the signing the letter is part of trying to make that better. Or maybe she co-opted the other side's message, wouldn't be the first time. But that's not the sign to me that it is to you I guess that she did sign it, there aren't any other high profile Belarussian tennis players that actually live a large amount in Belarus. But regardless, I'm not a fan of don't blame her, but also, let's do blame her.

Maybe I missed where she made a statement in Russian? You said she's said things that have been better phrased, but doesn't this time around. Sabalenka's English is good enough, but it is far from that of a native speaker. She made some not that great, very unappreciative (imo) comments about her working with a psychologist in Melbourne and I chalked it up to her using a second language to communicate, because I generally give players a break when they do so (Novak as the exception, which I have stated many times).

I also speak Russian and she has said things in Russian (I think, I don't recall for sure the language) about being against war (in general) and how this conflict should end. I don't think it's worth continuing discussing it because, at least I, certainly don't follow her closely enough to have the truly full picture of everything she's ever said publicly.

I'm coming at this from an obviously biased perspective, biased not against Sabalenka, but towards how *I* think people like her who have high risks but also a platform, should act and speak about what is happening in Russia, Belarus and Ukraine. This is something I have given daily thought for about 30 years, so my view is unlikely to change. I can accept that most people are non-committal or apathetic to things because of fear or discomfort or exhaustion, but I am not going to like or respect it, including in myself. That's maybe where the "blame her but don't blame her" is coming from.

Maybe it is a wrong thread, but I wanted to ask mostly US-based posters: what is the situation with pickleball invasion and what are you thoughts about this? I currently reside in Ukraine, but have some hopes that in future, if my son settles down enough in US (he is currently in a temporary status, but has a job) then me and my wife will be able eventually to move there. I spent some years in US on job assignments in the late 90s and early 2000s. And what I liked very much was avialability of free tennis courts in the parks in many locations nearby. But what I hear lately is disturbing, because they say that courts are converted to pickleball en masse. Will there be enough left?

Also some tennis stars (Agassi included) are participating in this, which IMO is also questionable. It seems that there is a conflict for resources and tennis is losing. And people who made their living from tennis switching sides like this - somehow I feel betrayed by their actions.

I have seen people playing pickleball. And here in Colombia, what is taking off is Padel. Both are obviously less demanding that tennis, easier to learn, and easier to master.
So maybe tennis will remain at an exclusive level. Also, because you always play in teams, the camaraderie thing helps for more fun to the players.
I don't know how it will affect the popularity of tennis.
But you are asking the American members. I will let them answer.

Actually when in 2017 I was in US the last time, I did play some pickleball myself. Since earlier in my life I was also playing ping-pong and badminton (not only tennis), I picked it up pretty quickly. But this whole thing was because my friends there at the time just didn't have enough athletic abilities for tennis. Pickleball largely left me cold and given the choice, I would play tennis, then badminton, then ping-pong and then maybe pickleball. Or maybe I would just do something more intensive instead of the latter (like running).

Not an American, but what I've seen is that the public courts have a pickleball court lines drawn on them so that the court can be used for either sport.

skatingfan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:19 am Not an American, but what I've seen is that the public courts have a pickleball court lines drawn on them so that the court can be used for either sport.

Pickleball seems to have taken over a couple of the courts here in Seattle (we have lots of them). One is right in the middle of a residential district and neighbors have been complaining to the city about the constant thwacking of the balls on the racquets and the ensuing echoes.

mick1303 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:47 pm Maybe it is a wrong thread, but I wanted to ask mostly US-based posters: what is the situation with pickleball invasion and what are you thoughts about this? I currently reside in Ukraine, but have some hopes that in future, if my son settles down enough in US (he is currently in a temporary status, but has a job) then me and my wife will be able eventually to move there. I spent some years in US on job assignments in the late 90s and early 2000s. And what I liked very much was avialability of free tennis courts in the parks in many locations nearby. But what I hear lately is disturbing, because they say that courts are converted to pickleball en masse. Will there be enough left?

Also some tennis stars (Agassi included) are participating in this, which IMO is also questionable. It seems that there is a conflict for resources and tennis is losing. And people who made their living from tennis switching sides like this - somehow I feel betrayed by their actions.

Hi, Mick...
I started playing pickleball just before the pandemic started. As a long time tennis player, I adapted to pickleball very quickly and easily. I watched people playing pickleball first, before I tried it - and in watching it, I didn't think I'd like it. But I've come to like it very much. The key is in finding your level of play. Playing with people who are not as good as you is not enjoyable - but this can be said for any sport. When you find other people of a similar level as you to play with, it's much more enjoyable, as it includes the element of always being challenging.

Right now, I divide my time about equally between tennis and pickleball. What I like about pickleball is that I'm in a league, and so there are designated times where the courts are reserved for us, and where I know I will be playing for 3 hours with people of a similar calibre.
With my tennis, it's more a matter of arranging to play independently with people I know.

I'm in Canada, of course... Here, as has been mentioned, some tennis courts are having pickleball lines added to them so that both sports can be played. You can make 2 pickleball courts on one tennis court. People typically bring their own portable net for pickleball. But we've just had 12 new dedicated pickleball only courts made around here (in 2 separate locations) that have permanent nets, like tennis courts.

I don't like it at all when pickleball lines are put on tennis courts - and I would support the tennis players over the pickleball players in any conflict on such courts.
But if you're worried about tennis courts being eradicated to make pickleball courts - I haven't ever seen that happen around here. And I haven't heard of it happening anywhere else (including in the U.S.).

In the end, the two sports have similarities, but they are different and separate. If ever you do move to the U.S., you'll still be able to play tennis, don't worry. And you'll be able to play pickleball, too.

Anyone ever play beach tennis? I found it ok, but I prefer paddle ball(kadima or smash ball) on the beach, you get a more accurate play on the ball in reference to the effort you made to hit it. I also don't like playing with the deadish tennis balls you use in beach tennis, I can't shake the disappointing expectation of those balls reacting like regular tennis balls. My school would like to bring pickle ball into the athletic curriculum, I keep pushing for outdoor tennis, and have at least gotten mini nets and a bunch of kid raquets for indoors.

Owendonovan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:40 am Anyone ever play beach tennis? I found it ok, but I prefer paddle ball(kadima or smash ball) on the beach, you get a more accurate play on the ball in reference to the effort you made to hit it. I also don't like playing with the deadish tennis balls you use in beach tennis, I can't shake the disappointing expectation of those balls reacting like regular tennis balls. My school would like to bring pickle ball into the athletic curriculum, I keep pushing for outdoor tennis, and have at least gotten mini nets and a bunch of kid raquets for indoors.

Is beach tennis like beach volleyball, where the women are ridiculously mandated to wear bikinis while the men are wearing baggy shorts down to their knees?