Talk About Tennis 2.0

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2023 3:03 am You all are more informed than I am.
What about her claim that the sample was contaminated? I understand that you always have two samples, precisely because if one is tainted, the second assists in the process.
Is that a possibility?

The contamination thing is strictly her own narrative right now. She's drummed up her own experts that are saying she's clean and it was a contaminated supplement and that she's provided evidence proving this. None of that evidence has been judged by WADA or another body as valid at this point. That's what will be determined in her appeal.

Both of her samples were tested, both of them tested positive for the the banned drug.

We've seen people get many of these bans reduced based on accident and mistake or something that means it was unintentional. In those cases, almost always, they have been something similar to a steroid found commonly in other food or substances. So as ridiculous as some of the excuses that players have come up with, they are talking about something a bit more like a common, like for instance, the ones that have popped up in many South American athletes cases related to meat contamination.

Halep's case is different because it's a different class of drug, one that is uncommon in other products and uses. Going by what those in the cycling community had to say, accidentally taking it in some way or another is very rare. So Halep is going to need some blockbuster evidence to prove her case. Going off of just a guess, if she's claiming this is evidence that would clear her, I would hope that at a minimum, the supplement she's saying was contaminated was made by a manufacturer who makes the banned drug along with the supplement in the same facility. That would be the starting point for me, if she can't prove at least that, I'm thinking full ban because the contamination will make little sense if at least that isn't true.

I keep reading that no one has ever been able to overturn an ABP violation.

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2023 12:26 am These hairsplitting issues are getting too complicated..maybe we need to a world where either 'nothing is permitted' or 'everything is permitted' - the current rules benefit mostly lawyers and test labs ...

I forgot to comment on this post.
if we go back to a NOTHING IS PERMITTED, then you run into some problems immediately. Define NOTHING. Aspirin, paracetamol, OTC pain killers. They would be voided, and any athlete using something as simple as Tylenol would be banned. NOTHING is permitted is impractical.
How about EVERYTHING is permitted? It would benefit athletes from countries where such practice would be state sanctioned (the USSR in the past, Russia and China today) and the athletes from those countries would have the regime's apparatus behind them, or athletes that would be wealthy enough to hire the best chemists to provide the best PED's. We already see a discrepancy in wealthy athletes being able to train at better places, have better access to better doctors/physicians, and such.
Sometimes, simple is no possible. I think this is one of those cases.

Well, today's rules benefit players who can afford the lawyers...

That too. Being wealthy will give you an advantage on every aspect of life.
But Simona certainly can afford the lawyers and yet, there she is.

I certainly would prefer 'everything is permitted' - 'nothing is permitted' would still require testing and all the rest of the ringamarole..if players want to damage their own bodies, let them! Or they can follow the example of that much reviled champion- Djokovic.

I kinda think someone on her team should change Simona's Twitter password

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 9:27 pm

The first comment I read under this statement said "switch to pickleball."

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 3:56 am I certainly would prefer 'everything is permitted' - 'nothing is permitted' would still require testing and all the rest of the ringamarole..if players want to damage their own bodies, let them! Or they can follow the example of that much reviled champion- Djokovic.

It is not only about damaging your body. Lendl said so in the 80's, but he was referring to marihuana and cocaine. Those things could be open for discussion.
But the science of PED's is well developed. You truly gain an advantage, as can be seen from Lance Armstrong's case, or the outstanding performances of state sanctioned athletes (the USSR/East Germany/China programs at the Olympic games of the past, the Sochi Olympics debacle). If that were to be allowed, then all fairness would go out the window.

Why only Djokovic? Was Federer ever involved in any sort of speculation of PED's? Sampras? Lendl? Most champions have been clean throughout their career; the ones that were found out to have been using PED's are actually a minority.

Djokovic because I don't think he takes anything at all....most tennis players do not, in fact, take any PEDs..but yes, it is a tricky question..these days, tennis players are almost superhuman physically ...as are all professional athletes,..when someone can afford the best trainers and some cannot, fairness has left the room long ago..

Well, absolute fairness is indeed difficult because you would have to start by defining it. Is it fair that somebody needs to get from Monte Carlo to Barcelona by driving, while the wealthy fly private? Well, would seem like one is certainly more convenient, but is it "unfair"? Is it fair that some people can rent a full house at Wimbledon Village for the fortnight, while others are extending the three-star hotel reservation on a daily basis (if they are lucky)?
Heck, Lendl used to have specially built courts at home, identical to the next slam's courts. Privileged? Sure. Unfair? I would not go that far.

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 3:49 pm Djokovic because I don't think he takes anything at all....most tennis players do not, in fact, take any PEDs..but yes, it is a tricky question..these days, tennis players are almost superhuman physically ...as are all professional athletes,..when someone can afford the best trainers and some cannot, fairness has left the room long ago..

He still uses that hyperbaric/nonhyperbaric chamber doesn't he? That's why what happens with Halep will be interesting. She was allegedly blood doping with medication while the ATP tour has pretended he doesn't use that chamber which is another form of blood doping.

Jannik Schneider
@schnejan

I was quiet a few days to review the case and watch the reactions (and I continue to work on it and will publish more when im sure) but so far I agree to Nick regarding the Halep case. It amazes me how pro active she is communicating and how unreflected some push this 1/

Halep tested positive for roxadustat, an anti-anaemia drug which stimulates the production of red blood cells. Experts regarded this as the first !public! positive blood doping case ever. Experts told me its very difficult to prove that this case could be solved by contamination

A small reminder that in 2021 only !2! of all normal in-competition tests in pro Tennis have been blood tests. The rest urine only. You cant catch potential dopers during tournaments that want to dope with EPO, own blood doping or similar things to increase the red blood cells

So if you have enough money to hire a good doctor (that tells you when exactly to take epo or when to change your blood and when to stop) you could safely blooddope in Tennis (generally speaking) specially in a second week of a slam when you need that extra 1 or 2% endurance

Yes, there are more blood tests since the start of the biological blood passport in Tennis. But in a research 2022 for Mail on Sunday we found the ITIA invited players to secure time slots for blood-doping tests before this 22 Miami Open, the US Open 21 and in Paris 19



So it is even more amazing that Halep was charged with a second doping offence last week over "irregularities" in her biological passport. Which normally means in general that development of bloodtests showed not natural blood data that only could be explained by blood doping

Generally speaking its said but very likely that there will be players competiting in Paris that are knowingly blooddoping. We have a problem in Tennis as long as there are not more bloodtests without prior notice that scares potential dopers. And I didnt even start with Tue's

Jannik Schneider
@schnejan
Freelance Journalist

Focus mainly on Tennis, Football, Doping, Sportpolitics, Mental Health and Taboos in Sports. contact: jannik.schneider@mailbox.org