by ti-amie CENTRE COURT - 1:30PM
1. Brandon Nakashima v Nick Kyrgios
2. Paula Badosa v Simona Halep
3. Botic Van De Zandschulp v Rafael Nadal
NO.1 COURT - 1:00PM
1. Elena Rybakina v Petra Martic
2. Jason Kubler v Taylor Fritz
3. Amanda Anisimova v Harmony Tan
NO.2 COURT - 11:00AM
1. Cristian Garin v Alex De Minaur
Not Before: 1:00pm
2. Alize Cornet v Ajla Tomljanovic
3. Yifan Xu / Zhaoxuan Yang v Alexa Guarachi / Andreja Klepac
4. Jack Sock / Coco Gauff v Edouard Roger-Vasselin / Alize Cornet
NO.3 COURT - 11:00AM
1. Harriet Dart / Heather Watson v Lyudmyla Kichenok / Jelena Ostapenko
Not Before: 1:00pm
2. Jamie Murray / Bruno Soares v John Peers / Filip Polasek
3. Robert Farah / Jelena Ostapenko v Nikola Cacic / Aleksandra Krunic
4. Mate Pavic / Sania Mirza v John Peers / Gabriela Dabrowski
COURT 12 - 11:00AM
1. Alicja Rosolska / Erin Routliffe v Asia Muhammad / Ena Shibahara
Not Before: 1:00pm
2. Jonny O'Mara / Ken Skupski v Kevin Krawietz / Andreas Mies
3. Mingge Xu v Lucia Peyre
COURT 18 - 11:00AM
1. Ella McDonald v Victoria Mboko
Not Before: 1:00pm
2. Wesley Koolhof / Neal Skupski v Matthew Ebden / Max Purcell
3. Talia Neilson Gatenby v Annabelle Xu
4. Jean-Julien Rojer / Ena Shibahara v Matthew Ebden / Samantha Stosur
COURT 4 - 11:00AM
1. Rose Marie Nijkamp v Georgia Pedone
2. Edas Butvilas / Mili Poljicak v Louis Bowden / Matthew Rankin
3. Jack Loutit / Edward Winter v Patrick Brady / William Jansen
4. Liv Hovde v Anastasiya Lopata
COURT 5 - 11:00AM
1. Weronika Ewald v Nikola Bartunkova
2. Hugo Coquelin / Phoenix Weir v Alessio Basile / Peter Benjamin Privara
3. Irina Balus v Kayla Cross
4. Luca Pow / Henry Searle v Tanapatt Nirundorn / Jaden Weekes
COURT 6 - 11:00AM
1. Nishesh Basavareddy / Rodrigo Pacheco Mendez v Coleman Wong / Michael Zheng
2. Sayaka Ishii v Ella Seidel
3. Jonah Braswell / Dino Prizmic v Gilles Arnaud Bailly / Jakub Nicod
4. Luca Udvardy v Alexis Blokhina
COURT 7 - 11:00AM
1. Alexander Blockx / Leanid Boika v Dylan Dietrich / Kilian Feldbausch
2. Joao Fonseca / Juan Carlos Prado Angelo v Gonzalo Bueno / Ignacio Buse
3. Yu-Yun Li v Taylah Preston
4. Peter Nad / Martyn Pawelski v Mika Brunold / Nicholas Godsick
COURT 8 - 11:00AM
1. Johanne Christine Svendsen v Olivia Lincer
2. Mia Kupres v Celine Naef
3. Gerard Campana Lee / Jeremy Jin v Aidan Kim / Cooper Williams
4. Nikola Daubnerova v Isabella Kruger
COURT 14 - 1:00PM
1. Santiago Gonzalez / Andres Molteni v Denis Kudla / Jack Sock
2. Jasmine Conway v Ela Nala Milic
3. Matej Dodig / Borys Zgola v Gabriel Debru / Paul Inchauspe
COURT 15 - 11:00AM
1. Linda Klimovicova v Isabelle Lacy
Not Before: 2:00pm
2. Elise Mertens / Shuai Zhang v Nadiia Kichenok / Raluca Olaru
3. Qavia Lopez v Hayu Kinoshita
4. Connor Henry Van Schalkwyk / Martin Antonio Vergara Del Puerto v Sebastian Gorzny / Alex Michelsen
COURT 17 - 11:00AM
1. Martin Landaluce / Pedro Rodenas v Juan Manuel La Serna / Lautaro Midon
2. Alexander Frusina / Hayden Jones v Ozan Colak / Learner Tien
3. Lennon Roark Jones / Hayato Matsuoka v Jakub Mensik / Olaf Pieczkowski
4. Bor Artnak / Hynek Barton v Paul Barbier Gazeu / Arthur Gea
The Committee, while adhering as closely as possible to the order of play given, is unable to guarantee that it will be maintained in its entirety.
This may result in matches being moved from one court to another. GERRY ARMSTRONG - REFEREE
by ashkor87 Nothing particularly exciting today....only good quality match would be Halep-Badosa...the doubles matches look good but I can't see them on any of my tv or ott channels..sigh...
by Cuckoo4Coco I am actually looking forward to 4 matches on Day 8.
Anisimova vs. Tan as I want Amanda to advance.
I would also love Brandon Nakashima to beat Nick Kyrgios and knock his loud mouth out of the tournament.
Then there is the Taylor Fritz match who I think has a good chance of moving on against qualifier Kubler.
Finally Botic who I really think could give a major test to Rafa. Now I am not predicting the huge upset like I did with Cornet over Iga, but there is a chance for this to happen.
by ashkor87 Oh, anisimova will advance but it will not be a high quality match
by
Cuckoo4Coco ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:19 am
Oh, anisimova will advance but it will not be a high quality match
I don't doubt there will be errors in the match. Both players are not very old. Harmony is only 24 and Amanda is 20 and either have that much experience so I expect the jitters, especially in the beginning of the match.
by
New England Nitemare Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:13 am
I would also love Brandon Nakashima to beat Nick Kyrgios and knock his loud mouth out of the tournament.
C4C, I agree with you on this. I'm tired of Krygios and his antics, enough already!!!!!
by meganfernandez I could watch all of these matches except Garin/de Minaur and Nakashima/Kyrgios. First sounds a little boring - I don't have a rooting interest and don't know much about either of their games other than de Minaur is a speedy grinder (right?). Maybe both are.
I keep thinking Botic could trouble Rafa with a big serving day, but Rafa will keep it away from Botic's forehand. Just can't quite say I believe Botic will play that well for three sets.
by
Cuckoo4Coco meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:45 am
I could watch all of these matches except Garin/de Minaur and Nakashima/Kyrgios. First sounds a little boring - I don't have a rooting interest and don't know much about either of their games other than de Minaur is a speedy grinder (right?). Maybe both are.
I keep thinking Botic could trouble Rafa with a big serving day, but Rafa will keep it away from Botic's forehand. Just can't quite say I believe Botic will play that well for three sets.
I hope Botic can do it.
by
meganfernandez Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:59 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:45 am
I could watch all of these matches except Garin/de Minaur and Nakashima/Kyrgios. First sounds a little boring - I don't have a rooting interest and don't know much about either of their games other than de Minaur is a speedy grinder (right?). Maybe both are.
I keep thinking Botic could trouble Rafa with a big serving day, but Rafa will keep it away from Botic's forehand. Just can't quite say I believe Botic will play that well for three sets.
I hope Botic can do it.
I like Botic a lot, but I also want Rafa to do well here. And really want Rafa to make the semis in case Nick gets there. I'm worried Botic couldn't make the final if he beats Rafa, then they will both be out. Rafa beat him at the French easily. I know it's a different surface, but Rafa is very good on every surface, so I'm not sure it's going to be much different.
by
Cuckoo4Coco meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:14 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:59 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:45 am
I could watch all of these matches except Garin/de Minaur and Nakashima/Kyrgios. First sounds a little boring - I don't have a rooting interest and don't know much about either of their games other than de Minaur is a speedy grinder (right?). Maybe both are.
I keep thinking Botic could trouble Rafa with a big serving day, but Rafa will keep it away from Botic's forehand. Just can't quite say I believe Botic will play that well for three sets.
I hope Botic can do it.
I like Botic a lot, but I also want Rafa to do well here. And really want Rafa to make the semis in case Nick gets there. I'm worried Botic couldn't make the final if he beats Rafa, then they will both be out. Rafa beat him at the French easily. I know it's a different surface, but Rafa is very good on every surface, so I'm not sure it's going to be much different.
You are right. I want the best possible player to be able to take out Nick Kyrgios. I hope Brandon Nakashima somehow upsets him tomorrow. I want him gone from the tournament.
by nelslus Spoiler alert: The final will be Novak vs. Rafa. (Ick.) (AND, sorry, everyone, but I'd be fine with Krygios winning if it means neither of these two win.) (OF course, I get why everyone is sick of Nick. I give no excuses. But, having worked in the social services all of my adult life- I see such obvious mental health issues with Nick- which he's been pretty open about. So, I can't hate on him as much for this reason.)
The women's final- Probably Jabeur vs. Damned If I Know. (PS: Albeit, I wouldn't bet money against the diabolical Suliso's pick of a Badosa Wimbledon title.) (Seriously.)
by ashkor87 Could be, but I expect Djokovic to beat Kyrgios in the finals...
by
ponchi101 nelslus wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:44 am
Spoiler alert: The final will be Novak vs. Rafa. (Ick.) (AND, sorry, everyone, but I'd be fine with Krygios winning if it means neither of these two win.) (OF course, I get why everyone is sick of Nick. I give no excuses. But, having worked in the social services all of my adult life- I see such obvious mental health issues with Nick- which he's been pretty open about. So, I can't hate on him as much for this reason.)
...
Serious here (since you have worked with social issues all your life, you have more expertise than I do in the subject). In what way would winning Wimbledon make Kyrgios a better person on court? If he has had the depth of analysis to openly talk about mental-health issues in his life, how come he cannot see how detrimental to his public persona his pattern of behavior is?
Last. Somebody else mentioned that maybe Nick was the one that suffered from bullying. I find that hard to accept vis-a-vis. He is a big bloke, his older brother looks like a refrigerator. Big men with a support are not the ones that receive bullying, generally. And his family does not strike me as a family that does not support him. Again, the brother was very vocal early in his career on his unequivocal support for Nick ("Shut up and watch greatness" he replied to some people complaining about Nick's behavior), his mom was very frequently in the stands, obviously cheering, now his father is there for the first time and this man does not look as one of those domineering, un-supporting dad's (Jim Pierce, Yuri Sharapov, the tragic figures over Dokic and Lucic).
Again, serious question.
by ponchi101 Kyrgios rubbing his shoulder with discomfort. At the speed he serves, and as his entire game builds up from that stroke, a bad sign.
Brandon on his way to do Rafa a HUGE, HUGE favor. First set to him. Kyrgios body language is showing no confidence. I say the chances of a RET are far from zero.
by Cuckoo4Coco God I hope Brandon can pull this off.
by ponchi101 No match at W this year has featured a comeback from 0-2 sets down. So far.
Garin lost the first two, evened it up at 2 sets, broke to start the fifth. Uhm...
by jazzyg The De Minaur-Garin match has been very entertaining.
by Cuckoo4Coco Nick and Brandon match at 1 set a piece.
by ponchi101 Close up of Nick's leg tattoo:
"Give a man a mask, and he will become his true self."
A play on an ancient saying, formalized by Oscar Wilde:
"Give a man a mask, and he will show his true face".
Kyrgios words were uttered by comic book character "The Joker".
by
meganfernandez ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:39 pm
No match at W this year has featured a comeback from 0-2 sets down. So far.
Garin lost the first two, evened it up at 2 sets, broke to start the fifth. Uhm...
I'm surprised Garin has turned this match around. ADM was in total control picking on Garin's backhand. He went away from it and Garin started playing more aggressively. I thought he was down and out in three. He has come back from two sets to love down three times in his career. Still think ADM will pull it out because Garin has been throwing in a lot of UFEs, especially from the BH.
by
meganfernandez ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:04 pm
Kyrgios rubbing his shoulder with discomfort. At the speed he serves, and as his entire game builds up from that stroke, a bad sign.
Brandon on his way to do Rafa a HUGE, HUGE favor. First set to him. Kyrgios body language is showing no confidence. I say the chances of a RET are far from zero.
Yeah, I asked a friend who plays high-level club in Europe (best player I know personally) before the last round if Nick could serve well for 15 more sets without hurting himself, and he said he thought so because Nick's serve motion is pretty effortless. Possible, but if his serve falls off with some soreness, he's going to struggle.
Nick thrives on atmosphere and drama. Being the favorite against a relatively undistinguished player, first match of the day, not gonna get him fired up. He'll actually have to win it with tennis and competitiveness.
by jazzyg Kyrgios has shown both of those qualities in this tournament.
He was down a break point at 5-all in the 5th set of his first round against Jubb and executed extremely well the rest of the way. Then he played brilliantly against Krajinovic.
by
meganfernandez jazzyg wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:10 pm
Kyrgios has shown both of those qualities in this tournament.
He was down a break point at 5-all in the 5th set of his first round against Jubb and executed extremely well the rest of the way. Then he played brilliantly against Krajinovic.
Yeah, and that's why he is still in it. We'll see if he can keep it up with more wear and tear. Maybe he can, but I'm not counting on it.
by meganfernandez ADM had 2 match points on Garin's serve, 4-5, 15-40 in the fifth. He dove for a ball and cut his finger on his right hand. It's all bloody, trainer coming out. And it's deuce. Tough for both of them, but it must be done.
Garin holds. Played well. 5-all in the fifth.
With Garin serving at 5-6, 30-15 then 40-30, ADM had two good looks on approach shots and chose to go to Garin's FH instead of BH. Puzzling. On the 40-15 point, ADM went to Garin's BH and drew an error. He has to stay on that side even if Garin is expecting it. Into a tiebreak. 4 hours, 21 minutes! ADM looks fresher but Garin is a bit stronger and more aggressive and really digging in. Dead even.
Drama in the TB! At 3-2, up a mini-break, Garin challenged a call and was wrong - ADM's shot had caught the line. Out of challenges. Next point, ADM lungeed for a shot and it popped up and squeaked over the net. Garin was right there and thought it was wide. No call, and Garin nets and EASY BH. Can't challenge. What a swing!
I didn't expect to watch this match but it has been really good.
by Cuckoo4Coco Kyrgios takes the 3rd set in a tie break. I hope not but I think Brandon might be on his way out.
by meganfernandez Wow, Garin won the last 7 points of the tiebreak to win it in five. He was down 3-5. He was down 2 sets and to love. He was down match points in the fifth set. Handled the pressure very well.
by Cuckoo4Coco The Garin Machine moved on to the next round in an epic 5 set match over de Minaur. He was also down 2 sets.
by jazzyg I am glad I got knocked out of the SP yesterday because I would have picked de Minaur today. That would have been painful.
by
meganfernandez Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:43 pm
The Garin Machine moved on to the next round in an epic 5 set match over de Minaur. He was also down 2 sets.
Someone reminded me that Garin was supposed to play Berrettin in R1. Now he's in the quarters.
by
Cuckoo4Coco meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:52 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:43 pm
The Garin Machine moved on to the next round in an epic 5 set match over de Minaur. He was also down 2 sets.
Someone reminded me that Garin was supposed to play Berrettin in R1. Now he's in the quarters.
Talk about the luck of the draw.
by
ponchi101 meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:59 pm
...
Yeah, I asked a friend who plays high-level club in Europe (best player I know personally) before the last round if Nick could serve well for 15 more sets without hurting himself, and
he said he thought so because Nick's serve motion is pretty effortless. Possible, but if his serve falls off with some soreness, he's going to struggle.
Nick thrives on atmosphere and drama. Being the favorite against a relatively undistinguished player, first match of the day, not gonna get him fired up. He'll actually have to win it with tennis and competitiveness.
It is an excellent motion, but he also serves at fantastic speed. He must have a very flexible arm, like Pete and Milos. But if he has a bit of discomfort that fast motion can aggravate it.
Anyway, he is righting the boat.
by
Cuckoo4Coco My one friend is coming over for some 4 of July grilling food that my Grandpa and My Brothers are cooking up, but I told her that part of the festivities is definitely going to be watching the Anisimova & Tan match. This friend is not a tennis player so she will just have to deal.
by New England Nitemare That was a pretty lame service game by Kyrgios just now, on to the 5th set we go.....i really hope Nakashima can pull this out.
by Cuckoo4Coco Nick Kyrgios everytime I watch him play he does something even more foolish than the last match. Only down one break he thinks it is better to just throw his last service game and head to the 5th set and take his chances. I hope that Brandon sends him packing so badly.
I would not be at all surprised if Brandon does break Nick's serve that Nick starts to tank the set or he will start his complete foolishness to disrupt the match.
by dryrunguy People cheering "Let's go Brandon!", and they are actually talking about someone named Brandon... At least I think so...
by
ponchi101 dryrunguy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:32 pm
People cheering "Let's go Brandon!", and they are actually talking about someone named Brandon... At least I think so...
Nick:
Nakashima's serve lands way in. Kyrgios challenges. The ball is inches in, on all sides.
Kyrgios complaints to the chair that the chair should have told him not to challenge. So, what is it? You want the chair to be involved, or you want the chair not to bother you?
by
meganfernandez Cuckoo4Coco wrote:My one friend is coming over for some 4 of July grilling food that my Grandpa and My Brothers are cooking up, but I told her that part of the festivities is definitely going to be watching the Anisimova & Tan match. This friend is not a tennis player so she will just have to deal.
Maybe she will be a fan after watching the match with you! I am always torn between hanging out with family and friends over the 4th and watching hours of tennis.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
by
meganfernandez dryrunguy wrote:People cheering "Let's go Brandon!", and they are actually talking about someone named Brandon... At least I think so...
Trump bros owning the libs wherever they can.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
by ponchi101 Kyrgios two breaks up. Match over.
by
meganfernandez ponchi101 wrote:dryrunguy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:32 pm
People cheering "Let's go Brandon!", and they are actually talking about someone named Brandon... At least I think so...
Nick:
Nakashima's serve lands way in. Kyrgios challenges. The ball is inches in, on all sides.
Kyrgios complaints to the chair that the chair should have told him not to challenge. So, what is it? You want the chair to be involved, or you want the chair not to bother you?
Insufferable
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
by
Cuckoo4Coco meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:36 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote:My one friend is coming over for some 4 of July grilling food that my Grandpa and My Brothers are cooking up, but I told her that part of the festivities is definitely going to be watching the Anisimova & Tan match. This friend is not a tennis player so she will just have to deal.
Maybe she will be a fan after watching the match with you! I am always torn between hanging out with family and friends over the 4th and watching hours of tennis.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
She might, we have been friends for many years now. Many years for two teens that are 16 years old.
She knows that I am a crazy tennis fan. She knows what she has to deal with.
Speaking of tennis and more really classless acts from Nick Kyrgios in screaming "You're Done" to Brandon Nakashima while about to go up 5-1 in the 5th set. Even John McEnroe had no words for that.
by
New England Nitemare Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:48 pm
[
Speaking of tennis and more really classless acts from Nick Kyrgios in screaming "You're Done" to Brandon Nakashima while about to go up 5-1 in the 5th set. Even John McEnroe had no words for that.
I agree....I have no words for that either.
by
Cuckoo4Coco 
for Taylor Fritz into the Quarter Finals. Gonna be a tough match up for him if he gets Rafa next.
by
ponchi101 Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:48 pm
..
She might, we have been friends for many years now. Many years for two teens that are 16 years old.
She knows that I am a crazy tennis fan. She knows what she has to deal with.
Speaking of tennis and more really classless acts from Nick Kyrgios in screaming "You're Done" to Brandon Nakashima while about to go up 5-1 in the 5th set. Even John McEnroe had no words for that.
He did what? The old joke: How low can you go? "You have a shovel?"
by
Cuckoo4Coco ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:04 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:48 pm
..
She might, we have been friends for many years now. Many years for two teens that are 16 years old.
She knows that I am a crazy tennis fan. She knows what she has to deal with.
Speaking of tennis and more really classless acts from Nick Kyrgios in screaming "You're Done" to Brandon Nakashima while about to go up 5-1 in the 5th set. Even John McEnroe had no words for that.
He did what? The old joke: How low can you go? "You have a shovel?"
Yes he did, not even a reaction came from Brandon at all. He just kept on playing. I couldn't believe it. It was made clear that he said it by John McEnroe who was one of the commentators and he really had no words for it.
by Cuckoo4Coco I am watching the Luca Udvardy and Alexis Blokhina Juniors match. Luca is 16 years old just like me and Alexis is 17. Watching the match I think I could actually hit with these girls and make a match of it. I don't know if I would win and probably not, but I certainly would not make a fool out of myself against either of them.
by ponchi101 We have told you. At 16, your tennis peak is far, far away. It is not inconceivable that you will be playing the best tennis of your life in double your current lifespan (at 32).
Your coach is your coach. He will guide you. But yours is a bit of an age in which you have to decide what you want your game to be. Many greats ones were not excellent juniors, because they were looking ahead. "I don't want to win now, I want to win later". Sampras and Edberg changed from 2 handed BH's to 1 handed, because they knew that at the pro level the needed a one handed for their serve and volley game.
What and how do you want to play in 2 years? In 4? At age 24, when you will be also out of college (graduated already). Little things that you may start considering, in your spare time.
by
Cuckoo4Coco ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:25 pm
We have told you. At 16, your tennis peak is far, far away. It is not inconceivable that you will be playing the best tennis of your life in double your current lifespan (at 32).
Your coach is your coach. He will guide you. But yours is a bit of an age in which you have to decide what you want your game to be. Many greats ones were not excellent juniors, because they were looking ahead. "I don't want to win now, I want to win later". Sampras and Edberg changed from 2 handed BH's to 1 handed, because they knew that at the pro level the needed a one handed for their serve and volley game.
What and how do you want to play in 2 years? In 4? At age 24, when you will be also out of college (graduated already). Little things that you may start considering, in your spare time.
I do know one thing. I want to go to college and play 4 years of tennis there and see how my tennis progresses. Then at that time I will decide what I am gonna do.
It does feel good though to look at these girls playing Juniors that are my age and see what sort of games they have and know I am really not that far off and could easily give them a game.
by ponchi101 You have spoken about it and, at least from me, you will not find any detraction to your plan. It sounds doable, achievable and responsible.
But, I was talking about something a bit different. HOW do you want to play in 4 years? Do you want to be an attaching baseliner? (Anisimova). A counter puncher? (Halep). Do you have the size and power to dominate the points from the back (Sabalenka) and want to work on that? What do you want to be able to do when inside the service boxes? Do you want to be a finesse artist? (Jabeur).
Strokes wise, what are your short, medium and long term goals?
by mick1303 After De Minaur attacks on Djokovic (trying to justify the actions of his gvmt pre Australian Open), he is forever on my "want to lose" list. So, yay Cristian Garin )) Good job!!!
by
Cuckoo4Coco ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:58 pm
You have spoken about it and, at least from me, you will not find any detraction to your plan. It sounds doable, achievable and responsible.
But, I was talking about something a bit different. HOW do you want to play in 4 years? Do you want to be an attaching baseliner? (Anisimova). A counter puncher? (Halep). Do you have the size and power to dominate the points from the back (Sabalenka) and want to work on that? What do you want to be able to do when inside the service boxes? Do you want to be a finesse artist? (Jabeur).
Strokes wise, what are your short, medium and long term goals?
My game resembles more of a counter puncher that moves around the court really well and moves my opponent around the court. Similar to Simona Halep. I do not have the size and power of a Sabalenka to dominate any player off the court. That is for sure. I work on my strength, but at the age of 16 and my mom is not really tall and big herself I doubt I have that on my side. I do see myself as more of a baseline player than a volley/net player. I guess you could also say I throw in a little finesse in my play as well because I really cannot over power my opponents.
My short term goals are to win a Girls Private School Championship either in my 11th grade year or 12th grade year. My medium range goals are to choose a university that has an Environmental Engineering program and begin my studies there and also play tennis at that school. My long term goals is to play in whatever Division College Championships my university is in and win and also graduate with a degree from that college. After that I will evaluate where I am with my tennis and my growth in the game and decide if the tour is something I feel is right for me or I go into the career I studied for. Either way I feel I set up well for my future and that is what it is all about.
by ponchi101 Alize cramping badly.
by
Cuckoo4Coco Amanda moves onto the QF's to face Simona Halep.
by Cuckoo4Coco My predictions for tomorrow's matches
Marie over Niemeier
Jabeur over Bouzkova
Norrie over Goffin
Djokovic over Sinner
by jazzyg I think Niemeier will beat Marie.
Agree with the others.
by
Cuckoo4Coco jazzyg wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:53 pm
I think Niemeier will beat Marie.
Agree with the others.
That one will be tough.
I also just noticed that Alize Cornet is scheduled to be right back onto the court to play Mixed Doubles QF in 15 minutes against Coco Gauff and Jack Sock. That is a really quick turn around and someone said she was cramping.
by ponchi101 She was barely able to walk by the end of the match. Match point was an attempt of a drop shot, that made it to the other side, and then he took two more steps towards the net and stood there.
If she goes out on court, it will be borderline miraculous.
by
Cuckoo4Coco ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:02 pm
She was barely able to walk by the end of the match. Match point was an attempt of a drop shot, that made it to the other side, and then he took two more steps towards the net and stood there.
If she goes out on court, it will be borderline miraculous.
I will keep an eye on the match and see if they actually default the match.
by Cuckoo4Coco Alize Cornet is a tough cookie. She is out there for the Mixed Doubles match against Coco Gauff & Jack Sock.
by jazzyg This is a surprisingly pathetic performance by Van De Zandschulp.
by ponchi101 The match is totally forgettable. It has no appeal.
by jazzyg That was a shot for the ages by Nadal right there.
First interesting point of the match.
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nelslus ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:03 pmSerious here (since you have worked with social issues all your life, you have more expertise than I do in the subject). In what way would winning Wimbledon make Kyrgios a better person on court? If he has had the depth of analysis to openly talk about mental-health issues in his life, how come he cannot see how detrimental to his public persona his pattern of behavior is?
Last. Somebody else mentioned that maybe Nick was the one that suffered from bullying. I find that hard to accept vis-a-vis. He is a big bloke, his older brother looks like a refrigerator. Big men with a support are not the ones that receive bullying, generally. And his family does not strike me as a family that does not support him. Again, the brother was very vocal early in his career on his unequivocal support for Nick ("Shut up and watch greatness" he replied to some people complaining about Nick's beha6'4vior), his mom was very frequently in the stands, obviously cheering, now his father is there for the first time and this man does not look as one of those domineering, un-supporting dad's (Jim Pierce, Yuri Sharapov, the tragic figures over Dokic and Lucic).
Again, serious question.
Excellent questions. First, let me emphasize that I am not a therapist or psychologist. (Albeit, let me also add how often, when you are working with folks, you'll see how psychologists and psychiatrist can wildly disagree on diagnoses with clients.) Any of my opinions expressed here are primarily from my many years of experiences professionally and as a volunteer in the social services, my degrees and continual trainings and reading updated research, and my personal mental health issues- major depression with some anxiety.
NEVERTHELESS, I'd say it's quite safe to say that Nick looks like a case of borderline, narcissistic issues. Personally, I'd want to see him get assessed (if this hasn't already happened) for any possible schizoaffective disorder- but, not sure of that. I see at least potential signs of a history of some kind of abuse, be it physical, emotional, sexual, etc., of course I could not say, and of course I can't say this with certainty- but, the family history IMO definitely at least should be looked into. Remember that Nick and his brother were not 6'4" imposing children. And, abusive adults can insert control and abuse for years, even if, say, a teenager has reached the age when they could beat up their abuser. Years of abuse take a heavy toll. For sure, ponchi, especially when it comes to abuse and/or mental health issues- banish, from now on, any thoughts of, for example, "this man does not look as one of those domineering, un-supporting dads." While, sure, some abusers (Jim Pierce, Dokic's father) are obvious- many are not. The cliche is true- we never know what goes on behind closed doors.
Now, while there are certainly common symptoms and reactions that tend to take place with different kinds of mental health issues- like with all humans, we all have different feelings reactions to situations. So, could winning Wimbledon make him act like a better person on court? I think no one can be certain of this. What I can say, for anyone with any kind of depth, what you realize is that, anything external is never going to "fix" any deep issues. Look, on an obviously far smaller scale, years ago as a performer, I had the experience of stopping shows- getting standing ovations in the middle of shows- and best believe, I damned well deserved them. Did that feel incredible at those times? Damned right. Did it deeply change me? Sadly, no. In fact, among the sane and sad reasons that I gave up performing on and off through the years is, one of the reasons I gave up performing is that my self-esteem was so low back in the day, I quit because I felt a loser like me didn't deserve any of that. It all messed with my head too much, and made me wildly uncomfortable afterwards. As those in 12-step programs know, there are never enough Wimbledon titles, Academy awards, sex, drugs, alcohol, gambling, shopping, etc. to fill the emptiness. Of course, it's far, far better to have money vs. being poor, being attractive vs. being homely and all that. But, that's why there can be so many screwed up actors, sports heroes, celebrities, stars, etc. The highs never really fix the lows.
I definitely do respect Nick for his being upfront about his mental health issues and his experiences with self-harm. There can be so many reasons for folks- family, personal, cultural- not to seek therapy, and not to admit to it. And, I believe that he's mentioned getting some therapy, and perhaps also medications? Definitely hope so. When, for example (and I didn't see much of his match with Tsitsipas), Nick was obsessively muttering to himself- I got how annoying that would be to many. It made me sad and anxious for him- because I also get how absolutely and truly frightening it can be to feel completely out of control with your feelings and words.
I get why folks hate on Nick. Look, let me make it clear that, you can still be a bipolar a-hole, a blind a-hole, an LGBTQI a-hole, etc. When your mind goes off, it definitely can make it far more likely to act like an a-hole- and, YES, perhaps I have some direct experience with this.
IMO, Nick needs to learn to find ways to stop taking things out on himself and others. What he said to Nakashima today is disgraceful. I'd still like to suggest that, perhaps temper the Nick-hate with some compassion, as I do feel he too often just feels out of control.
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nelslus jazzyg wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:14 pm
This is a surprisingly pathetic performance by Van De Zandschulp.
Re: Almost all Rafa and Novak matches, I'd go with, this is an unsurprisingly pathetic performance by (
fill in the blank of the name of the latest useless scrub.)
by ti-amie Halep destroyed Paula, who didn't seem willing or able to up her level. That gave Simona the confidence boost she needed and that was that.
Harmony realized where she was today and was unable to settle into the match. Her junk balling should've bother Anisimova but she was tight and that was that. If that little girl who was cheering her on, said to be Meilen Tu's niece, ever takes up tennis look out. That little girl is fierce.
I also got to see Canadian junior Victoria Mboko. There's a lot of potential there but it was unsettling to see the heavy tape on her thigh and the kinesio around her knee. We'll see.
Of all the US men I find Fritz the least objectionable. He's been quietly going to Europe for the last few years and taking his lumps in order to learn. It may be paying off for him now.
I read Alizé pulled her usual stunts. I was glad to see Ajla win though. She's been in a bit of a slump lately.
Woz said something to the effect that she first played Cornet when she (Woz) was eight and she was limping then too.
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meganfernandez Cuckoo4Coco wrote:meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:36 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote:My one friend is coming over for some 4 of July grilling food that my Grandpa and My Brothers are cooking up, but I told her that part of the festivities is definitely going to be watching the Anisimova & Tan match. This friend is not a tennis player so she will just have to deal.
Maybe she will be a fan after watching the match with you! I am always torn between hanging out with family and friends over the 4th and watching hours of tennis.
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She might, we have been friends for many years now. Many years for two teens that are 16 years old.
She knows that I am a crazy tennis fan. She knows what she has to deal with.
Speaking of tennis and more really classless acts from Nick Kyrgios in screaming "You're Done" to Brandon Nakashima while about to go up 5-1 in the 5th set. Even John McEnroe had no words for that.
He… what? He did this??
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by
Cuckoo4Coco meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:22 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote:meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:36 pm
Maybe she will be a fan after watching the match with you! I am always torn between hanging out with family and friends over the 4th and watching hours of tennis.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
She might, we have been friends for many years now. Many years for two teens that are 16 years old.
She knows that I am a crazy tennis fan. She knows what she has to deal with.
Speaking of tennis and more really classless acts from Nick Kyrgios in screaming "You're Done" to Brandon Nakashima while about to go up 5-1 in the 5th set. Even John McEnroe had no words for that.
He… what? He did this??
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yep, if you watch set # 5 when Kyrgios is about to go up 5 games to 1 on Brandon he screams out something and then "You're Done!!!" John McEnroe and the other commentator on ESPN couldn't believe it.
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meganfernandez Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:34 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:22 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote:
She might, we have been friends for many years now. Many years for two teens that are 16 years old.
She knows that I am a crazy tennis fan. She knows what she has to deal with.
Speaking of tennis and more really classless acts from Nick Kyrgios in screaming "You're Done" to Brandon Nakashima while about to go up 5-1 in the 5th set. Even John McEnroe had no words for that.
He… what? He did this??
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yep, if you watch set # 5 when Kyrgios is about to go up 5 games to 1 on Brandon he screams out something and then "You're Done!!!" John McEnroe and the other commentator on ESPN couldn't believe it.
Should be unsportsmanlike conduct.
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Cuckoo4Coco meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:12 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:34 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:22 pm
He… what? He did this??
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yep, if you watch set # 5 when Kyrgios is about to go up 5 games to 1 on Brandon he screams out something and then "You're Done!!!" John McEnroe and the other commentator on ESPN couldn't believe it.
Should be unsportsmanlike conduct.
Should have been , but it got the usual nothing. Brandon didn't even acknowledge it and just moved right onto the next point.
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Deuce Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:15 pm
Nick Kyrgios everytime I watch him play he does something even more foolish than the last match. Only down one break he thinks it is better to just throw his last service game and head to the 5th set and take his chances. I hope that Brandon sends him packing so badly.
^ Many players do something similar to this.
Of the things to criticize Kyrgios for, this would be last on my list.
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:16 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:12 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:34 pm
Yep, if you watch set # 5 when Kyrgios is about to go up 5 games to 1 on Brandon he screams out something and then "You're Done!!!" John McEnroe and the other commentator on ESPN couldn't believe it.
Should be unsportsmanlike conduct.
Should have been , but it got the usual nothing. Brandon didn't even acknowledge it and just moved right onto the next point.
That's the best way to handle Nick, i think - just go about your business and ignore his nonsense.
Of course, if one is the confrontational type, that would be good, too. I'm pretty sure that Nick would become completely unglued if an opponent truly got 'in his face' and confronted him about his behaviour (and his incredible hypocrisy), and made him accountable for the things he does and says.
Insofar as the subject of his psychological make-up goes... of course none of us know the source of his problems. But he is very obviously an incredibly insecure individual.
And when it comes to abuse, bullying, etc. - that stuff wears many faces. Abuse and bullying can be psychological and/or emotional just as much (or more) than it can be physical or sexual. And so one's physical size is entirely irrelevant when it comes to being the victim of abuse.
Also - many bullies were bullied or abused in some way when they were young.
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Deuce ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:21 pm
I also got to see Canadian junior Victoria Mboko. There's a lot of potential there but it was unsettling to see the heavy tape on her thigh and the kinesio around her knee. We'll see.
^ Glad you got to see her.
I think many more will be seeing her in 3 or 4 years.
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:21 pm
Of all the US men I find Fritz the least objectionable. He's been quietly going to Europe for the last few years and taking his lumps in order to learn. It may be paying off for him now.
^ Fritz is the definition of 'vanilla'. He's just... there. Never any controversy surrounding him... nothing spectacular about his game...
He is the absolute opposite and antithesis of Kyrgios in every way.
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Cuckoo4Coco Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:20 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:15 pm
Nick Kyrgios everytime I watch him play he does something even more foolish than the last match. Only down one break he thinks it is better to just throw his last service game and head to the 5th set and take his chances. I hope that Brandon sends him packing so badly.
^ Many players do something similar to this.
Of the things to criticize Kyrgios for, this would be last on my list.
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:16 am
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:12 am
Should be unsportsmanlike conduct.
Should have been , but it got the usual nothing. Brandon didn't even acknowledge it and just moved right onto the next point.
That's the best way to handle Nick, i think - just go about your business and ignore his nonsense.
Of course, if one is the confrontational type, that would be good, too. I'm pretty sure that Nick would become completely unglued if an opponent truly got 'in his face' and confronted him about his behaviour (and his incredible hypocrisy), and made him accountable for the things he does and says.
Insofar as the subject of his psychological make-up goes... of course none of us know the source of his problems. But he is very obviously an incredibly insecure individual.
And when it comes to abuse, bullying, etc. - that stuff wears many faces. Abuse and bullying can be psychological and/or emotional just as much (or more) than it can be physical or sexual. And so one's physical size is entirely irrelevant when it comes to being the victim of abuse.
Also - many bullies were bullied or abused in some way when they were young.
Kyrgios definitely feeds into what he does. You could see it in the Stef match. When Stef started to feed into what he was doing and slammed a shot of the back wall Nick had a big smile on his face. Nick also after all the crap he was doing would then turn things into what Stef did in his frustration to the nonsense of the match. Now Nick did have a beef with the whole ball being hit in the stands, but all the other stuff he just ran his mouth about Stef.
In the next match Brandon Nakashima didn't feed into the nonsense at all and for the most part it was a lot less than the previous match.
I don't know what is really going on in Nick's head and what makes him act this way because I am not a Psychologist, but he obviously becomes unglued really easily.
by Deuce When I say that Kyrgios would become unglued rather quickly if another player truly confronted and challenged him on his behaviour, I mean that it would significantly affect his tennis - because being challenged would make him terrified of being exposed, and being disliked by everyone.
I'd even go so far as to say that if another player ever truly confronted/challenged him on his behaviour, it could very well be the end of Nick's tennis career - because he is incredibly fragile psychologically and emotionally.
I don't think he became unglued in the Tsitsipas match - Kyrgios was the maestro of that match, and was in total control of the 'mood' of the match. Tsitsipas was the one who became unglued by Nick's behaviours and manipulations.
As you say, Nakashima didn't buy into the nonsense - he ignored it and kept on his own path. And the result was that he came closer to beating Kyrgios than Tsitsipas did, despite Tsitsipas being a better player than Nakashima right now.
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Cuckoo4Coco Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:32 pm
When I say that Kyrgios would become unglued rather quickly if another player truly confronted and challenged him on his behaviour, I mean that it would significantly affect his tennis - because being challenged would make him terrified of being exposed, and being disliked by everyone.
I'd even go so far as to say that if another player ever truly confronted/challenged him on his behaviour, it could very well be the end of Nick's tennis career - because he is incredibly fragile psychologically and emotionally.
I don't think he became unglued in the Tsitsipas match - Kyrgios was the maestro of that match, and was in total control of the 'mood' of the match. Tsitsipas was the one who became unglued by Nick's behaviours and manipulations.
As you say, Nakashima didn't buy into the nonsense - he ignored it and kept on his own path. And the result was that he came closer to beating Kyrgios than Tsitsipas did, despite Tsitsipas being a better player than Nakashima right now.
In the Tsitsipas match when the Chair Umpire loudly responded that Nick was going to challenge a call and you could hear in his voice he was irritated by Nick's antics you could see a little that Nick was surprised by the out burst by the chair umpire. Now that wasn't from his opponent and he just kept going and did what he had to do to win the match his way, but that outburst by the chair umpire shocked him a bit at least for a minute.
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meganfernandez Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:01 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:32 pm
When I say that Kyrgios would become unglued rather quickly if another player truly confronted and challenged him on his behaviour, I mean that it would significantly affect his tennis - because being challenged would make him terrified of being exposed, and being disliked by everyone.
I'd even go so far as to say that if another player ever truly confronted/challenged him on his behaviour, it could very well be the end of Nick's tennis career - because he is incredibly fragile psychologically and emotionally.
I don't think he became unglued in the Tsitsipas match - Kyrgios was the maestro of that match, and was in total control of the 'mood' of the match. Tsitsipas was the one who became unglued by Nick's behaviours and manipulations.
As you say, Nakashima didn't buy into the nonsense - he ignored it and kept on his own path. And the result was that he came closer to beating Kyrgios than Tsitsipas did, despite Tsitsipas being a better player than Nakashima right now.
In the Tsitsipas match when the Chair Umpire loudly responded that Nick was going to challenge a call and you could hear in his voice he was irritated by Nick's antics you could see a little that Nick was surprised by the out burst by the chair umpire. Now that wasn't from his opponent and he just kept going and did what he had to do to win the match his way, but that outburst by the chair umpire shocked him a bit at least for a minute.
I've seen Carlos Bernardes telling Nick to "Stop. Stop. Stop" over and over when Nick was going off on him, and it didn't work.
But I agree, if anyone ever confronted Nick about it on court, maybe he'd shut it down, but it depends.
I like the way Brandon responded, and hopefully Nick apologized in the locker room - that was so bush league.
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Cuckoo4Coco meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:31 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:01 pm
Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:32 pm
When I say that Kyrgios would become unglued rather quickly if another player truly confronted and challenged him on his behaviour, I mean that it would significantly affect his tennis - because being challenged would make him terrified of being exposed, and being disliked by everyone.
I'd even go so far as to say that if another player ever truly confronted/challenged him on his behaviour, it could very well be the end of Nick's tennis career - because he is incredibly fragile psychologically and emotionally.
I don't think he became unglued in the Tsitsipas match - Kyrgios was the maestro of that match, and was in total control of the 'mood' of the match. Tsitsipas was the one who became unglued by Nick's behaviours and manipulations.
As you say, Nakashima didn't buy into the nonsense - he ignored it and kept on his own path. And the result was that he came closer to beating Kyrgios than Tsitsipas did, despite Tsitsipas being a better player than Nakashima right now.
In the Tsitsipas match when the Chair Umpire loudly responded that Nick was going to challenge a call and you could hear in his voice he was irritated by Nick's antics you could see a little that Nick was surprised by the out burst by the chair umpire. Now that wasn't from his opponent and he just kept going and did what he had to do to win the match his way, but that outburst by the chair umpire shocked him a bit at least for a minute.
I've seen Carlos Bernardes telling Nick to "Stop. Stop. Stop" over and over when Nick was going off on him, and it didn't work.
But I agree, if anyone ever confronted Nick about it on court, maybe he'd shut it down, but it depends.
I like the way Brandon responded, and hopefully Nick apologized in the locker room - that was so bush league.
Yeah, the "You're Done" comment was just beyond belief and something definitely should have been said by the chair umpire about that.
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ponchi101 meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:31 pm
...
I've seen Carlos Bernardes telling Nick to "Stop. Stop. Stop" over and over when Nick was going off on him, and it didn't work.
But I agree,
if anyone ever confronted Nick about it on court, maybe he'd shut it down, but it depends.
I like the way Brandon responded, and hopefully Nick apologized in the locker room - that was so bush league.
Oh. How to handle bullies, 101: you CONFRONT THEM. Under every bully, and you don't need to scratch too deep, there is a coward.
I was a small, wimpy kid. Not the bravest. One day, the classroom bully told me to feed him the answers for one exam (HS junior year). I told him I would not, so he said that if I did not he would beat me up. So I fed him the answers; all the WRONG answers. I got my 95, he got the opposite (5). All my friends started to laugh at him because he had been had by "wimpy P", so he tried to beat me up. But I could run faster, so I ran, backwards, and taunted him. Over and over, while he was chasing me. Eventually, he got tired, and THEN, it was my turn. I kicked the hell out of him.
Sure, two days later he corralled me and beat me up badly, but he never again messed with me. He left me alone.
So, yes, bullies have to be confronted. Which is what the ATP and all tournaments don't do, simply because of the fans in the stands. One has to admit he brings them in.
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Cuckoo4Coco ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:57 pm
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:31 pm
...
I've seen Carlos Bernardes telling Nick to "Stop. Stop. Stop" over and over when Nick was going off on him, and it didn't work.
But I agree,
if anyone ever confronted Nick about it on court, maybe he'd shut it down, but it depends.
I like the way Brandon responded, and hopefully Nick apologized in the locker room - that was so bush league.
Oh. How to handle bullies, 101: you CONFRONT THEM. Under every bully, and you don't need to scratch too deep, there is a coward.
I was a small, wimpy kid. Not the bravest. One day, the classroom bully told me to feed him the answers for one exam (HS junior year). I told him I would not, so he said that if I did not he would beat me up. So I fed him the answers; all the WRONG answers. I got my 95, he got the opposite (5). All my friends started to laugh at him because he had been had by "wimpy P", so he tried to beat me up. But I could run faster, so I ran, backwards, and taunted him. Over and over, while he was chasing me. Eventually, he got tired, and THEN, it was my turn. I kicked the hell out of him.
Sure, two days later he corralled me and beat me up badly, but he never again messed with me. He left me alone.
So, yes, bullies have to be confronted. Which is what the ATP and all tournaments don't do, simply because of the fans in the stands. One has to admit he brings them in.
I agree that the tour doesn't do it because of the fans in the stands. They also don't do it because tennis is a game that is supposed to have integrity to it. Kyrgios is trying to take some of that out of the game with the antics he does. What Stef was saying in the match they played was true. He just wanted to play tennis and that is what he was there for. Kyrgios was attempting to turn it into something totally different.
As for me with bullies as I am sort of like you not really the biggest person, but I do have two older brothers who are, especially my oldest brother.
. My school does a really good job dealing with bullies and we really don't have a problem with it at all. At school I guess I would be considered one of the students who are considered the academic students and the athletic students. I however hang with any of the students. The artsy students, the goth students, whatever group. That is just the way most of the students at my school are.
