Talk About Tennis 2.0

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:01 pm

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:26 pm Is it true that "Pancho" Gonzalez also perfected the serve and volley now technique so many in the US are in love with? I would say he invented it but I'm not good on tennis history especially back then.

I don't know if he perfected the S&V game, but he was one of the first players to play the American power game of that era, together with Kramer. Serve and volley, attack the net at any opportunity. In the distant past now. I also always wondered why it was called the Big Game, and why it was tied to Americans. Not like Laver, Rosewall, Newcombe and all the other Aussies were not practicing it too.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:52 pm The sole reason I usually do not include doubles is that, for example, that makes the GOAT for women's clear cut. It is Navratilova and nobody else comes close, IF YOU INCLUDE DOUBLES.
Also, since most single players no longer engage in doubles regularly, it makes it hard to gauge. We saw it at the (2008?) Olympics, when Stan and Roger won the gold over all the other doubles specialists, and again in Rio, when Rafa won it with Marc Lopez. The singles guys, if they were committed to that side of the sport, would clean it up.
McEnroe would certainly climb up the rankings, as would Edberg (a great doubles team with Jarryd).

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:54 am Hmm...good question, putting me on the spot eh? Navratilova and Nadal, then..

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:42 pm

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:54 am Hmm...good question, putting me on the spot eh? Navratilova and Nadal, then..

I didn't put you on the spot! In the other topic you said doubles should be counted as part of the GOAT's debate, I was only then asking.
Ok, we agree on Navs. But Nadal? Data say: 0 Slam doubles, 10 tour titles, one Olympic doubles. I gather you are saying that his doubles performance puts him ABOVE Roger and Novak, but I may be reading you wrong.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:24 pm Yes. That was the time in which ALL players played both games. The Aussies were all great at doubles: Laver, Emerson, Rosewall, Newcombe, Stolle, etc. The Americans too: Smith comes to mind. Connors may have been the first guy to eschew doubles, then Borg. Pretty soon, it stopped being important for those guys.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:56 pm You are the expert in that area, but I see that as a technical problem. For example, for the top "usual suspects" in the WTA, their doubles records are easy to find: Court, Evert, Navratilova, Steffi and Serena's data is out there. But if you include doubles, then BJK becomes a new factor. I would never include her as a possible ON COURT Goat candidate, but if you include her doubles, then she may challenge Evert.
And, if you include doubles, do you go for Mixed Doubles too? Then Court Vs Navs becomes even more complicated to gauge, but you have to consider who they played their mixed with.
I would not mind the GOAT in doubles talk, but it would be a separate topic. For example, if you talk doubles, it is very hard NOT to mention the Bryan Brothers. Who are nowhere near the GOAT conversation in singles, of course.