by ti-amie Tournament: Nitto ATP Finals
Dates: 9 - 16 November, 2025
Location: Turin, Italy
Surface: Hard
1 Carlos Alcaraz ESP 11050
2 Jannik Sinner ITA 10000
3 Alexander Zverev GER 4960
4 Novak Djokovic SRB 4620
5 Ben Shelton USA 3970
6 Taylor Fritz USA 3935
7 Alex de Minaur AUS 3935
8 Felix Auger-Aliassime CAN 3845
9 Lorenzo Musetti ITA 3685
by Fastbackss Musetti is making it interesting. Plays in semis against Korda tomorrow. Needs two more wins.
I can't see Novak finishing out the week but who knows
by ti-amie Singles
JIMMY CONNORS GROUP
C. Alcaraz
N. Djokovic
T. Fritz
A. de Minaur
BJORN BORG GROUP
J. Sinner
A. Zverev
B. Shelton
U. Unknown
by ti-amie Doubles
PETER FLEMING GROUP
J. Cash /L. Glasspool
M. Granollers /H. Zeballos
K. Krawietz /T. Puetz
S. Bolelli /A. Vavassori
JOHN MCENROE GROUP
H. Heliovaara /H. Patten
M. Arevalo /M. Pavic
J. Salisbury /N. Skupski
C. Harrison /E. King
by ti-amie Sunday 09 November, 2025 (Day 1) RR
Inalpi Arena Starts at 11:30 am
M. Granollers/H. Zeballos (3) Vs (6) K. Krawietz/T. Puetz
Not Before 2:00 pm
C. Alcaraz (1) Vs (7) A. de Minaur
Not Before 6:00 pm
J. Cash/L. Glasspool (1) Vs (7) S. Bolelli/A. Vavassori
Not Before 8:30 pm
A. Zverev (3) Vs (5) B. Shelton
by skatingfan I wish he had just made this clear a month ago - could have saved a lot of trouble.
by ponchi101 How can you have an injury when you just won a tournament.
"We like to inform that after today's win we will not be running the next race because we have a blown engine in our car..."
by
ti-amie 
2025 Week 45
ATP's Finally Finals
Tennis Watchers
Nov 8
As of this posting, we may not yet know who is all playing in the ATP Finals, but we at least know when and where! Action kicks off Sunday morning in Italy with doubles matches starting the order of play with singles matches following. That schedule will be the same each day, so anticipate singles matches to start around 8:00am CST.
Tennis Channel will continue to be the home of all the action. Much like the WTA, the ATP also will have a live stream for practices active to check out throughout the week.
by ashkor87 I think Djokovic is doing what I would advise..rack up the tournament wins and hunt down Federer..only 2 ahead now Djoko would be not have won Turin anyway..at this stage in his life
by JTContinental Is Novak racking up the tournament wins, though?
ETA: in great tennis journa(i)lism, when I did a Google search to see what tournaments ND has won this year, the AI bot told me he won the 2025 AO
by Suliso This has made Alcaraz group kind of weak..
by
ashkor87 JTContinental wrote: ↑Sun Nov 09, 2025 7:23 am
Is Novak racking up the tournament wins, though?
ETA: in great tennis journa(i)lism, when I did a Google search to see what tournaments ND has won this year, the AI bot told me he won the 2025 AO
Just numbers since that is what tennis accountants watch...he has 101, Fed has 103.
by ashkor87 The conditions in Turin are fast...I would expect DeMinaur to emerge, along with Alcaraz..the other group is harder to forecast..maybe FAA will make it, with Sinner.
by Fastbackss I seriously hope that there is an off-season story on this.
Nothing makes sense.
Did Novak get told to keep his mouth shut about not playing TF because there was intrigue for the 8 spot?
Did he truly decide after Athens?
Did he play Athens only because he lives in Greece now?
I frankly am annoyed because I allowed myself to get sucked into the intrigue when one story said Novak was playing ((that he then backed away from).
Thank goodness next year points end at Paris.
Ps - poor Musetti. The alternate better get some reps in
by
ponchi101 ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 09, 2025 1:19 pm
JTContinental wrote: ↑Sun Nov 09, 2025 7:23 am
Is Novak racking up the tournament wins, though?
ETA: in great tennis journa(i)lism, when I did a Google search to see what tournaments ND has won this year, the AI bot told me he won the 2025 AO
Just numbers since that is what tennis accountants watch...he has 101, Fed has 103.
Yes. Just numbers. 24 slams, the sole winner of at least 3 of each slam (in the ATP), the sole winner of every MS1000, and at least twice.
Those are only numbers. But I would say that almost every great athlete looks at numbers and then sets a goal. Kobe Bryant was fixated with winning a sixth NBA championship, just to catch Jordan. Novak was, and I say still is, fixated with overtaking Roger's figures. Pete retired "early" because he thought that his number of slams was safe. Remember his maniacal drive in 1998 to reach end the year as #1 so that he could get a sixth such year.
And I say that Novak is driven to match every one of Roger's records. He will never be able to swallow that Roger was and always will be more popular.
by jazzyg Although FAA probably is a bigger threat in Turin, I am glad Musetti got in. He simply had the better, more consistent year, point total be damned.
And of course you can win a tournament while nursing an injury. It is disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
by ponchi101 No, it is not disingenuous. You can win a tournament having an injury, but not one that forces you OUT of the next tournament when that next tournament is way more important than the one you just won.
Disingenuous is believing that a player with the history of retirements that Novak has was really still debating on going to the finals. He simply never meant to go.
by ti-amie Monday 10 November, 2025 (Day 2)
Inalpi Arena Starts at 11:30 am
RR
M. Arevalo/M. Pavic (4) Vs (5) J. Salisbury/N. Skupski
Not Before 2:00 pm
RR
L. Musetti (9) Vs (6) T. Fritz
Not Before 6:00 pm
RR
H. Heliovaara/H. Patten (2) Vs (8) C. Harrison/E. King
Not Before 8:30 pm
RR
J. Sinner (2) Vs (8) F. Auger-Aliassime
by
ti-amie The Tennis Letter
@thetennisletter.bsky.social
· 5h
2025 ATP Finalists group photo for GQ Italia.
Jannik Sinner.
Taylor Fritz.
Alexander Zverev.
Alex de Minaur.
Carlos Alcaraz.
Ben Shelton.
John Russo
by skatingfan The ATP gets tailored matching outfits for GQ, and the WTA had the players bring their own gowns.
by ponchi101 Men don't mind being dressed the same. Women do.
Don't they?
by
skatingfan ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 10, 2025 3:02 am
Men don't mind being dressed the same. Women do.
Don't they?
They don't have be identical, but they could have been coordinated, or at least created specifically for the event, and having the photoshoot done by a major fashion outlet.
by ponchi101 Agree about the photoshoot being done by a major fashion outlet. But maybe they liked it better that way.
by ti-amie Tuesday 11 November, 2025 (Day 3)
Inalpi Arena Starts at 11:30 am
RR
M. Granollers/H. Zeballos (3) Vs (7) S. Bolelli/A. Vavassori
Not Before 2:00 pm
RR
C. Alcaraz (1) Vs (6) T. Fritz
Not Before 6:00 pm
RR
J. Cash/L. Glasspool (1) Vs (6) K. Krawietz/T. Puetz
Not Before 8:30 pm
RR
L. Musetti (9) Vs (7) A. de Minaur
by mick1303 Felix looks injured. And Bublik is such a wildcard that he can be the first in YEC history to make a semis as an alternate that joined after 1st round of play. Or lose 1 an 0.
by ponchi101 I said this before. Bublik is the sole guy that can challenge J/C. He has touch, power and variety.
He has a solid 25% chance of beating them when he plays them. 27% when he plays Sinner on anything other than hards.
by ashkor87 Fritz credits the fast court for his win against Musetti... listen to his on-court interview with Prakash
by
Owendonovan ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 10, 2025 1:02 am
The Tennis Letter
@thetennisletter.bsky.social
· 5h
2025 ATP Finalists group photo for GQ Italia.
Jannik Sinner.
Taylor Fritz.
Alexander Zverev.
Alex de Minaur.
Carlos Alcaraz.
Ben Shelton.
John Russo
This isn't much better than the women's photo. The fabric over the bar stools is as bad as a high school prom backdrop. The fit on the suits is horrible. If this is the best humans can put out now, in one of the wealthiest sports, I guess AI should take it over.
by Owendonovan I've got a feeling this tournament is going to go according to rank. Top 4 seeds all won.
The women should be pumping up the diversity of players they have winning the biggest tournaments to expand their fan base.
by
JTContinental Owendonovan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 1:33 am
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 10, 2025 1:02 am
The Tennis Letter
@thetennisletter.bsky.social
· 5h
2025 ATP Finalists group photo for GQ Italia.
Jannik Sinner.
Taylor Fritz.
Alexander Zverev.
Alex de Minaur.
Carlos Alcaraz.
Ben Shelton.
John Russo
This isn't much better than the women's photo. The fabric over the bar stools is as bad as a high school prom backdrop. The fit on the suits is horrible. If this is the best humans can put out now, in one of the wealthiest sports, I guess AI should take it over.
It's also cropped strangely and tightly and I bet converted to B&W to hide all the flaws like the fabric on the barstools
by ashkor87 Alcaraz struggling a bit against Fritz... Wonder why? Does he take too long to set up for his shots, therefore has problems with fast courts? Sinner has practically no backswing even on his forehand...
by ponchi101 It is not as if Fritz is useless on a hard court. He played an excellent match.
Carlitos uses a lot of drops; we know that. But he uses it a lot mixed with wrong footing his opponent. On a hard court, the opponent gets instant grip and can change directions faster. The drops were not as effective as usual.
Hey, he cannot win everything in a walk in the park; he is not Roger-2005.
by ponchi101 I said it before. Because he is Alex Deminaur, we don't give this guy any credit. But this guy competes like the very best. Never out of focus. Never giving up on a single point. Never letting himself get down.
He is right up there with the GOAT's. In that area.
by ti-amie Wednesday 12 November, 2025 (Day 4)
Inalpi Arena Starts at 11:30 am
RR
H. Heliovaara/H. Patten (2) Vs (5) J. Salisbury/N. Skupski
Not Before 2:00 pm
RR
B. Shelton (5) Vs (8) F. Auger-Aliassime
Not Before 6:00 pm
RR
M. Arevalo/M. Pavic (4) Vs (8) C. Harrison/E. King
Not Before 8:30 pm
RR
J. Sinner (2) Vs (3) A. Zverev
by
ponchi101 ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 9:19 pm
I said it before. Because he is Alex Deminaur, we don't give this guy any credit. But this guy competes like the very best. Never out of focus. Never giving up on a single point. Never letting himself get down.
He is right up there with the GOAT's. In that area.
What a monster jinx...
by mick1303 I'm afraid Musetti used his out of jail card on ADM and will have nothing left for 3rd match vs Alcaraz.
by Suliso I'll be very surprised if it's not Alacaraz and Fritz in that order.
by
ptmcmahon If my math is right, ADM still alive with a straight sets win and a Musetti loss ... and we'd get our game % tiebreaker
Could also have to go to games for if Musetti beats Alcaraz in straight sets and Fritz wins.
by ponchi101 Ben had 5 aces on a court that Fritz said is fast, in 18 service games. And there were some long games on his serve.
He has a supersonic serve, but there is something about it that seems not to hurt the opponent much. Odd.
by
ashkor87 ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 12, 2025 3:41 pm
Ben had 5 aces on a court that Fritz said is fast, in 18 service games. And there were some long games on his serve.
He has a supersonic serve, but there is something about it that seems not to hurt the opponent much. Odd.
i could not see it so cant comment..
by ptmcmahon Sinner will now win group if he beats Zverev which would mean Zverev-FAA would be for second
If Zvervev wins, still 3 way ties possible.
by ti-amie Thursday 13 November, 2025 (Day 5)
Inalpi Arena Starts at 11:30 am
RR
K. Krawietz/T. Puetz (6) Vs (7) S. Bolelli/A. Vavassori
Not Before 2:00 pm
RR
T. Fritz (6) Vs (7) A. de Minaur
Not Before 6:00 pm
RR
J. Cash/L. Glasspool (1) Vs (3) M. Granollers/H. Zeballos
Not Before 8:30 pm
RR
C. Alcaraz (1) Vs (9) L. Musetti
by ptmcmahon Sinner wins group, FAA-Zverev for 2nd.
by ponchi101 Looks like we will get the expected final. Can't see Musetti beating Alcaraz, and that means Alcaraz gets FAA/Zverev, and there, maybe Zverev has a 35% chance of beating him.
Sinner is into the final almost by default.
by ashkor87 Am surprised the crowd made so much difference to the Musetti DeMinaur match..unless it didn't..could not see it.
by ponchi101 It didn't. The crowd was fair and it got excited when Musetti started his comeback. But it was more Deminaur not being able to close the deal.
It was not a French crowd at RG when a French player is on the court.
by ptmcmahon deMinaur wins in straight sets, which officially puts Alcaraz through.
Scenarios:
Musetti wins - Musetti #1, Alcaraz #2
Alcaraz wins in 2 - Fritz and DeMinaur tie in sets, goes to games
Alcaraz wins in 3 - Fritz, Musetti, DeMinaru tie in sets, goes to games
Forgot to note games won...
by ptmcmahon DeMinaur is 37-39 games, Fritz 36-39. DeMinaur won in exactly enough games! So Fritz is out.
Musetti is 24-28 so likely needs to win outright, or lose in three sets but win 2 more total games in a loss.
by ponchi101 The toughest and cruelest sport in the world.
Taylor was 2 points away from qualifying first in the group (had he beaten Carlitos). Didn't, and now he is totally out.
The last 3 games of the match were insane. Both of them simply got to everything, and some of the points were true gems.
by Suliso Now about 80% probability of:
Alcaraz vs Zverev
Sinner vs deMinaur
by
ptmcmahon ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 13, 2025 5:24 pm
The toughest and cruelest sport in the world.
Taylor was 2 points away from qualifying first in the group (had he beaten Carlitos). Didn't, and now he is totally out.
The last 3 games of the match were insane. Both of them simply got to everything, and some of the points were true gems.
Yeah and if he wins one more game today he'd be ahead of ADM.
That said, I don't know if I would say this the "cruelest" sport. I know everyone thinks that about their favorite sports is the cruelest and hardest. But I mean, look at what happened on those two plays in the 9th inning of game 7 of the world series
I don't think anything tops that this year at least.
by ponchi101 You had a team. Maybe, some selfish player for the Blue Jays is thinking "that was not me". Maybe he is right.
In tennis, the individual aspect leaves nowhere to hide. YOU won, or YOU lost. You may want to thank your team, you may want to rely on them, but the person on the court was you.
That is the reason I say it is so cruel. And in golf, you are really not competing against any opponent; it is you against a golf course.
by ponchi101 J/C are following certain patters. For example, they keep a match close and then, boom, they just crush the opponent.
4-4 in the first set. And then Carlos won 8 of the next 9 games. And was seriously never in doubt.
by
ptmcmahon ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 13, 2025 7:39 pm
You had a team. Maybe, some selfish player for the Blue Jays is thinking "that was not me". Maybe he is right.
In tennis, the individual aspect leaves nowhere to hide. YOU won, or YOU lost. You may want to thank your team, you may want to rely on them, but the person on the court was you.
That is the reason I say it is so cruel. And in golf, you are really not competing against any opponent; it is you against a golf course.
Yeah baseball is a team sport, I was more referring to the two plays in the bottom of the ninth inning - a catcher toe tapping the plate to get a runner out by millseconds, or outfielders crashing into each other and still catching it. Those tiny margins seem "cruel" especially considering it was 9th inning of game 7 of world series. ATP Finals is at best fifth most important tournament, and this was round robin.
I mean in this case, our example of "cruelty" is a player going 1-2 and not making the next round of a tournament
Tennis is not the only sport where people play one on one as well. I'm not saying it's not tough/cruel sometimes, just saying its pretty cliche for fans of all sports to say that their sport is the hardest/cruelest. I don't think this is really a great example of it. A silly similar example - just today one football podcast claimed "There is nothing harder in sports than winning an NFL game." Which ... 13-16 teams do every week
by ptmcmahon Oh and Mick, we got your games won as part of a tiebreaker there today. I guess if Fritz had won one more game (not vs ADM) it would have had to go to ATP rankings and he would have moved on.
by ti-amie Friday 14 November, 2025 (Day 6)
Inalpi Arena Starts at 11:30 am
RR
H. Heliovaara/H. Patten (2) Vs (4) M. Arevalo/M. Pavic
Not Before 2:00 pm
RR
J. Sinner (2) Vs (5) B. Shelton
Not Before 6:00 pm
RR
J. Salisbury/N. Skupski (5) Vs (8) C. Harrison/E. King
Not Before 8:30 pm
RR
A. Zverev (3) Vs (8) F. Auger-Aliassime
by
oliver0001 ptmcmahon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 13, 2025 7:30 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 13, 2025 5:24 pm
The toughest and cruelest sport in the world.
Yeah and if he wins one more game today he'd be ahead of ADM.
I don't think that's correct. According to the ATP rulebook:
"If three (3) players are tied, then:
i) If three (3) players each have one (1) win, a player having played less
than all three (3) matches is automatically eliminated and the player ad-
vancing to the single elimination competition is the winner of the match-
up of the two (2) players tied with 1-2 records; or
ii) Highest percentage of sets won; or
iii) Highest percentage of games won; a player completing less than all three
(3) matches is automatically eliminated and the player advancing to the
single elimination competition is the winner of the match-up of the two (2)
remaining players; or
iv) The player positions on the PIF ATP Rankings as of the Monday after the
last ATP Tour tournament of the calendar year.
v) If (i), (ii), (iii) or (iv) produce one (1) superior player (first place), or one
(1) inferior player (third place), and the two (2) remaining players are tied,
the tie between those two (2) players shall be broken by head-to-head
record."
If (i), (ii), (iii) or (iv) produce one (1) superior player (first place), or one
(1) inferior player (third place), and the two (2) remaining players are tied,
the tie between those two (2) players shall be broken by head-to-head
record."
https://www.atptour.com/en/corporate/rulebook (p. 68)
Since Musetti is 2:5 in sets, DeMinaur and Fritz are the "remaining players tied" and thus the head to head is relevant, whereas the games won is irrelevant.
by
ashkor87 ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 09, 2025 1:22 pm
The conditions in Turin are fast...I would expect DeMinaur to emerge, along with Alcaraz..the other group is harder to forecast..maybe FAA will make it, with Sinner.
Now FAA had better beat Zverev, just for my sake! that would be a full house for me.
by ti-amie Saturday 15 November, 2025 (Day 7)
Inalpi Arena Starts at 12:00 noon
SF
S. Bolelli/A. Vavassori (7) Vs (2) H. Heliovaara/H. Patten
Not Before 2:30 pm
SF
J. Sinner (2) Vs (7) A. de Minaur
Not Before 6:00 pm
SF
J. Salisbury/N. Skupski (5) Vs (1) J. Cash/L. Glasspool
Not Before 8:30 pm
SF
C. Alcaraz (1) Vs (8) F. Auger-Aliassime
by
ashkor87 ashkor87 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 14, 2025 12:41 pm
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 09, 2025 1:22 pm
The conditions in Turin are fast...I would expect DeMinaur to emerge, along with Alcaraz..the other group is harder to forecast..maybe FAA will make it, with Sinner.
Now FAA had better beat Zverev, just for my sake! that would be a full house for me.
Well done FAA! I got all 4 right.
by ponchi101 Zverev's FH is lacking any bite nowadays. He is putting so much spin on it, but it is not pushing anybody.
And Felix is serving really well. I give him a solid 20% chance to beat Carlos.
by ashkor87 These ATP tournaments are getting too predictable - with those 2 monsters Sinner and ALcaraz, nobody else has any chance! I expect the finals to be between these 2 again, and Sinner will win it - the court suits him better, that will make the 5% difference. The women's side has much more variety, every round is worth following.. of course, the quality of the tennis at Turin has been very good, I think (though I cant see it on any of the TV feeds here)
by
ashkor87 ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 12:19 am
Zverev's FH is lacking any bite nowadays. He is putting so much spin on it, but it is not pushing anybody.
And Felix is serving really well. I give him a solid 20% chance to beat Carlos.
true, i wonder why.. but 20% is too high, 10% may be ok
by ashkor87 Folks like Zverev, Medvedev, Fritz must be losing motivation because at their level, only majors matter - and now they have no chance at all of winning one - they would have to beat BOTH Sinner and Alcaraz.. lesser players, younger players would be fine to win lesser tournaments and get to the semis of majors but these next tier players aspire to WIN majors..not likely to happen
the same thing could have happened with Swiatek and Sabalenka but it didnt, partly because those two have not been firing on all cylinders at the same time..
by ponchi101 The problem is: what can they do? What strokes can they improve? Their movement?
Fritz leads the tour on aces, but other than retooling his entire back court game, what can he do?
Zverev took care of the serve. And now, it is the rest that cannot keep up with J/C.
And Medvedev's strokes are so unusual what can he do? Change them?
I say Felix can be the one that can improve the best (not the most). His shot selection used to be so predictable that you always knew where he was going. A bit more variety and he can (maybe, maybe) challenge. And his net play can be tuned a bit more.
As you say, the WTA is so much more interesting right now.
by
ashkor87 ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 12:59 am
Folks like Zverev, Medvedev, Fritz must be losing motivation because at their level, only majors matter - and now they have no chance at all of winning one - they would have to beat BOTH Sinner and Alcaraz.. lesser players, younger players would be fine to win lesser tournaments and get to the semis of majors but these next tier players aspire to WIN majors..not likely to happen
the same thing could have happened with Swiatek and Sabalenka but it didnt, partly because those two have not been firing on all cylinders at the same time..
when Federer and Nadal ruled, there was always the fact that Nadal was injured half the year, and Federer was not so great on clay.. now Sinner and Alcaraz are good everywhere - outdoors, indoors, fast courts, slow courts- it is all the same to them. and they are so young you cant wait them out!
by Suliso Federer-Nadal duo ruled only for few years before Djokovic showed up and let's not forget Murray in his prime. Let's hope something similar happens this time too.
by ashkor87 I dont follow rankings too much but is it normal to have the top 2 so far from #3 that the distance between me (0 points) and #3 is less than the distance between #3 and #2?
by
ponchi101 ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:08 am
I dont follow rankings too much but is it normal to have the top 2 so far from #3 that the distance between me (0 points) and #3 is less than the distance between #3 and #2?
Somebody posted it a few days ago. the distance between #2 and #3 is larger than #3 and #1000.
And yes, this is different than Roger/Rafa. During that span between 2005-2007, Roger was supreme on everything except clay. I remember writing that Roger made it so easy it was not fair. Now we have two players that really cannot care less about surface or any other factor.
I will tune to the WTA for suspense.
by Suliso de Minaur put up a strong resistance, but at 5-5 Sinner broke through and that was all she wrote.
by dryrunguy I don't think men's tennis is boring at all. Yes, when both Sinner and Alcaraz are playing an event, they're probably going to make the final. And what a final it almost always is. I don't mind that at all.
Then you have the fact that, in their present state, Alcaraz isn't as nearly automatic to make the final as Sinner is. It's infuriating, but it's still entertaining.
Then you have all the matches that occur in the early rounds of big events. They're still excellent fodder for highly entertaining tennis.
And then we have all of the smaller tournaments Sinner and Alcaraz don't bother with. Again, very entertaining tennis to be had week in and week out. I enjoy these tournaments very much.
So I beg to differ. Give me the early and middle rounds of large events and a slew of ATP 250 and 500 events. I'll be a very happy camper.
by
ashkor87 ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 3:56 pm
#3 is larger than #3 and #1000.
not just #1000, even me, with 0 points!
by
ashkor87 dryrunguy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 4:07 pm
I don't think men's tennis is boring at all.
Yes, the quality of tennis is very high, which is what matters.. it is not a horse race after all! My problem is, where I live, I dont get to see much of them on TV, only youtube highlights, which are very perfunctory..
by
dryrunguy ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 4:16 pm
dryrunguy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 4:07 pm
I don't think men's tennis is boring at all.
Yes, the quality of tennis is very high, which is what matters.. it is not a horse race after all! My problem is, where I live, I dont get to see much of them on TV, only youtube highlights, which are very perfunctory..
Your point is well taken, ashkor. I am spoiled, no doubt. Tennis Channel in the US shows a lot of men's tennis (and women's tennis, too). And I work at home, so I get to watch a lot--or at least treat it like radio while I am working. So I am definitely spoiled.
by ti-amie Sunday 16 November, 2025 (Day 8)
Inalpi Arena Starts at 3:00 pm
F
H. Heliovaara/H. Patten (2) Vs (5) J. Salisbury/N. Skupski
Not Before 6:00 pm
F
C. Alcaraz (1) Vs (2) J. Sinner
by ashkor87 Both Sinner and Alcaraz are playing so well, it is unbelievable, magical.. hope for something special tonight. I will be able to watch that one, one of the channels here is showing it. These 2 are the best players I have ever seen.
by mick1303 I looked it up and was surprised how infrequently it happened that both YEC finalists came to the final undefeated, Since 2000 and to 2024 (25 editions) it only happened 4 times (16 %). In 2010 - Federer/Nadal, 2013 - Djokovic/Nadal, 2014 - Djokovic/Federer, 2016 - Murray/Djokovic.
by mick1303 What is puzzling me in the reporting about this tournament is why everyone sheepishly repeats that these courts are "oh, so fast". The reports on CPI I found are around 38-40. It is NOT FAST. Moreover the highlights that I saw also show quite a lot of prolonged defense, where several winners in a raw had to be hit to win a point. What gives?
by
ashkor87 mick1303 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 16, 2025 7:49 am
What is puzzling me in the reporting about this tournament is why everyone sheepishly repeats that these courts are "oh, so fast". The reports on CPI I found are around 38-40. It is NOT FAST. Moreover the highlights that I saw also show quite a lot of prolonged defense, where several winners in a raw had to be hit to win a point. What gives?
agree, it is not all that fast, medium to fastish I would say.
by ponchi101 Because Taylor said it was fast, after his win.
That is my point. There are no fast courts anymore. Remember the glorious Becker-Sampras WTF in 1996? Becker broke Sampras on his first service game, and Sampras broke Becker on his last service game. That was it. The court was so fast (yes, indoors plexipave) that coupled with two powerful serve and volleyers it was impossible to break serve. That was the other extreme.
I know that Alcaraz is a rocket. I know that Deminaur is a speed demon. But when somebody hits a cross court volley, you are outside the doubles' alley and you can still get to the ball, that is not a fast court.
What Mick says. You have to hit two and three winners to win a point. Indeed, what gives?
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ponchi101 ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 16, 2025 1:46 am
Both Sinner and Alcaraz are playing so well, it is unbelievable, magical.. hope for something special tonight. I will be able to watch that one, one of the channels here is showing it.
These 2 are the best players I have ever seen.
I think Marion Bartoli would like to talk to you
by ponchi101 10-5 H2H, Carlos. He has won 7 of the last 8 (one of them by retirement). Their sole indoor court match was won by Carlos.
What must Jannick do? I say it is a very even match, but the numbers don't say so.
by Suliso So far this match is delivering. Only one break point in the first set (a set point for Alcaraz at 6-5), not taken and now Sinner has won the tiebreak.
by ashkor87 Serving after a tight tiebreak is always hazardous..third set likely now
by ponchi101 I don't see Carlos hitting out as in the previous days. And his use of the DS has been sporadic. He plays Sinner differently than when he plays Earthlings.
by ashkor87 Alcaraz hit a really sloppy volley to get broken ...
by ashkor87 But he is soooo sweet it is not possible to be against him
by Suliso This match will be decided by the smallest of margins. Still very hard to predict in who's favor.
by ponchi101 Posting at 5-4 second set, Sinner.
I say Carlitos gets broken. He is talking to his box: when he does that, it seems to me he is nervous.
by Suliso Of course a small advantage Sinner simply because he has won the first set, but can he brake again? Not many opportunities...
by ponchi101 Carlos is coming to the net on anything. He looks to me like the Wimby final, not the USO final.
by ashkor87 Sinner first serve has gone awol again
by ponchi101 Well, not at 5-4, but yes at 6-5.
He looked like he did not believe in his game, coming in on a lot of shots that were not that good.
Carlos is #1. Jannick had the better year.
by Suliso You were right, only one game later. What a win for Jannik!
So who has had a better season? I think Sinner has a solid argument it's him despite losing the #1 ranking.
by ponchi101 I said above, and I said it a few days ago when Mick asked about that. 2 slams and the WTF beats 2 slams and any number of MS1000's.
A good match, but not a great match. One cannot say that a man with 6 slams is mentally not strong. But sometimes, Carlos seems to get himself out of the match. Like at Wimby, he looked like he did not know what to do, and he gets a bit frustrated.
I think.
by Suliso Btw has anyone won WTF two straight years without dropping a set? Perhaps Djokovic has...
by Suliso Another interesting fact - 2003 WTF final vs Djokovic is the last indoor hard court match Sinner has lost. For sure his best surface and favorite fully controlled conditions. Thus no big surprise he could beat even Alcaraz in straight sets.
by mick1303 Maybe soon the surface will be determined not by tournament, but by match - accounting for the fact that some outdoor courts have roofs. In this case Sinner's streak could be questioned, because US Open final that he lost was under the roof for the whole entirety of the match.
by
ponchi101 Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Nov 16, 2025 7:40 pm
Another interesting fact -
2003 WTF final vs Djokovic is the last indoor hard court match Sinner has lost. For sure his best surface and favorite fully controlled conditions. Thus no big surprise he could beat even Alcaraz in straight sets.
And that was an explainable loss seeing how Jannik was only 2 years old then
(I know you meant 2023; but I found it funny).
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ashkor87 ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 16, 2025 7:36 pm
I said above, and I said it a few days ago when Mick asked about that. 2 slams and the WTF beats 2 slams and any number of MS1000's.
A good match, but not a great match. One cannot say that a man with 6 slams is mentally not strong. But sometimes, Carlos seems to get himself out of the match. Like at Wimby, he looked like he did not know what to do, and he gets a bit frustrated.
I think.
His thigh injury ..probably eager not to get involved in long rallies..that injury did make the difference, sadly.
by mick1303 It looks like Alcaraz inherited this trait from Nadal - never to lose when 100% healthy. If he lost - there is some ailment involved, no doubt.
by ponchi101 Nadal lost when 100% healthy. The Aussie open against Novak (twice), he lost Wimby 2006 and 2007 when healthy.
I see your point, but I think it was more a bit mental. Once he lost the first set, he seemed a bit deflated. Let's see if he does say something about that leg (or, if he has, if somebody posts it).
by ashkor87 He doesn't need to, and probably won't ..did you see the match? If you did, you have the evidence of your own eyes, the best kind.
by ashkor87 Alcaraz has now pulled out of Davis Cup - the injury is apparently more serious than originally supposed..
John Russo