Talk About Tennis 2.0

What people forget is that tennis fans have long memories. People want to forget that it was his behavior, and that of his family, that turned many people off. I don't think it's fair to make this into an anti Eastern European bias situation.

Us oldies with long memories.
Goran never had this problem; he was respected and liked. And he did say a few things that were not perfect (I never minded them).
Marat never had this problem either. He was also well liked.
Let's not even bring up Sharapova, who was beloved by everybody (and I was completely aghast of that, as she was really not a nice person. I give her credit for her helping Monica Puig in Puerto Rico; my hat off there).
Lendl had a bit of issues in the USA; he was very respected out of there (many people really liked him in S. America).

The Russian brigade of women players never had such issues. Some were not that popular (Kutnezova, for example) but there is a difference between that and being disliked.
Kafelnikov was disliked because he simply refused to please anybody. And the extent of that was that he basically had no endorsements because of that image, but nothing else.

Popular eastern europeans: Mario Ancic, Coric, Cilic, Hurkacz, Iga, Radwanska. A brief list.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:04 pm Us oldies with long memories.
Goran never had this problem; he was respected and liked. And he did say a few things that were not perfect (I never minded them).
Marat never had this problem either. He was also well liked.
Let's not even bring up Sharapova, who was beloved by everybody (and I was completely aghast of that, as she was really not a nice person. I give her credit for her helping Monica Puig in Puerto Rico; my hat off there).
Lendl had a bit of issues in the USA; he was very respected out of there (many people really liked him in S. America).

The Russian brigade of women players never had such issues. Some were not that popular (Kutnezova, for example) but there is a difference between that and being disliked.
Kafelnikov was disliked because he simply refused to please anybody. And the extent of that was that he basically had no endorsements because of that image, but nothing else.

Popular eastern europeans: Mario Ancic, Coric, Cilic, Hurkacz, Iga, Radwanska. A brief list.

Agree on Sharapova as she had that look of being not a nice person. Defeating Serena at Wimbledon jumpstarted her life especially after hearing that her parents came to US with very little money when she was wrong.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:04 pm Us oldies with long memories.
Goran never had this problem; he was respected and liked. And he did say a few things that were not perfect (I never minded them).

Truly, I am exhausted to have to call this out. So- if "good naturedly" or whatever, Goran had used the "n' word multiple times during press interviews, would you not have minded this? Would you call this as his being "not perfect"?

I also get that Goran is not the only player to have used the "f***ot" term multiple times- Agassi, etc. As a tennis fan- I was happy in some ways that Goran managed to finally win Wimbledon. But, this happiness was diluted.

Heterosexual men among us here, I beg you not to make any argument to dismiss this- that it's a cultural thing, no real harm meant, or whatever. It's offensive- and, with the amount of LGBTQ+ members who have been in this site- I wish this point were fully understood, once and for all.

And you are one of the oldies with a good memory.
My point was: Goran was not disliked. Right or wrong, he never got to that state. So, if people are saying that Novak is not appreciated BECAUSE he is Eastern European, there are plenty of examples that that is not the case.
Should Goran have been disliked for the comments he made? Different conversation.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:33 pm And you are one of the oldies with a good memory.
My point was: Goran was not disliked. Right or wrong, he never got to that state. So, if people are saying that Novak is not appreciated BECAUSE he is Eastern European, there are plenty of examples that that is not the case.
Should Goran have been disliked for the comments he made? Different conversation.

About Novak, I can agree. But, when you make the statement "And he did say a few things that were not perfect (I never minded them)", you made this part of the entire conversation. Which IMO merits being called out. As for Goran- a majority of the LGBTQ+ community is going to remember multiple uses of derogatory terms made by any public figure.

Ok. I will yield.

The pandemic was the death knell for Novak’s already shaky public image

Fully agree. Without covid his reputation would be far better. Number of GS won higher too.

Alexander Zverev is facing another assault charge, this time by Brenda Patea, the mother of his child.

https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/al ... enda-patea

It is getting hard to stand by this guy.
If true: let the full penalty of law fall on him.

nelslus wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 6:34 pm

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:33 pm And you are one of the oldies with a good memory.
My point was: Goran was not disliked. Right or wrong, he never got to that state. So, if people are saying that Novak is not appreciated BECAUSE he is Eastern European, there are plenty of examples that that is not the case.
Should Goran have been disliked for the comments he made? Different conversation.

About Novak, I can agree. But, when you make the statement "And he did say a few things that were not perfect (I never minded them)", you made this part of the entire conversation. Which IMO merits being called out. As for Goran- a majority of the LGBTQ+ community is going to remember multiple uses of derogatory terms made by any public figure.

Goran is that guy who casually and publicly used the word f@@got, that's how I think of Goran, not as a slam champion.

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:51 pm It is getting hard to stand by this guy.
If true: let the full penalty of law fall on him.

are you saying you still are standing by him?

This time it's not even the woman only that's accusing him. The police have gathered sufficient evidence. How can people still believe his quite inept defense attempts over quite a lot of evidence that he's an awful person? Yes, innocent unless proven guilty is the concept, but it's applicable for punishment, not fandom.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:49 pm is fans have long memories. People want to forget that it was his behavior, and that of his family, that turned many people off. I don't think it's fair to make this into an anti Eastern European bias situation.

I think she, specifically, is not saying the double standard for Djokovic is because he's Eastern European. Those were two separate thoughts. One, that she thinks he's representative of a certain Eastern European work ethic and two, that he's been judged more harshly than Rafa and Roger. But I don't think she was connecting those two thoughts. (I know others have)

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 2:25 pm

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:51 pm It is getting hard to stand by this guy.
If true: let the full penalty of law fall on him.

are you saying you still are standing by him?

This time it's not even the woman only that's accusing him. The police have gathered sufficient evidence. How can people still believe his quite inept defense attempts over quite a lot of evidence that he's an awful person? Yes, innocent unless proven guilty is the concept, but it's applicable for punishment, not fandom.

My position has been that leagues and tours should not get involved in issues that, to me, should be handled by the legal systems of countries. Switching sports, I do not agree with the NBA's position over the Ja Morant incident when no crime has been committed. And, in the NFL, the league drove Ricky WIlliams out of the sport for smoking pot (sure, against the league's rules) but when Aaron Rodgers spends the summer doing ayawaska and boasting about it, you got crickets. The leagues are too inconsistent.
I stood with Zverev in his previous issue because no charges were ever filed and therefore no crimes were stated. It was a "he said/she said" issue, and I don't like the court of public opinion to make those calls. We saw in the Kyrgios case that the situation had more nuances, and Nick was not the monster that some were too quick to paint. Now, this case seems different; as you say (and thanks for informing me), the police this time has sufficient evidence. So, throw the book at him. But let it be the German Legal System, not the ATP.

And I stood by him because I really like his game; the BH is a thing of beauty. But, as I said above, I don't think I will be able to do that anymore. He is off the list.