Talk About Tennis 2.0

JazzNU wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:18 pm

ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:58 pm
Nope

Not surprised. Genuinely wonder how many people even remember that he was mostly seen as funny and charismatic early on before the many mistakes, mishaps, lapses in judgement or however you'd characterize the things that occurred that made him fall out of favor with many fans.

His player impersonations were really amusing and lighthearted

That's not how I remember things, as an early Novak fan. He was never incredibly well-liked by the general tennis fandom and was especially despised by Federer fans (which at the time seemed like most tennis fans), because he frustrated Federer, because of his obnoxious parents and because he would retire frequently. His impressions, which I found lighthearted, were seen as obnoxious and self-aggrandizing.

Then he got some media training, shut up his parents, fixed his stamina, and became more statesman-like. It, along with winning, got him some more fans and shut down some of the negativity around him. He was still seen as annoying (post-march ritual) and bizarre (hyperbaric chamber, spiritual guru friend, etc. ).

Then last year, he screwed himself over and it's back to being actively disliked.

I will say for all my dislike of much that is Nolé these days, the man does back it up with results. He's worked really hard to get here. This is sport and he's the winner right now. Good on him.

mmmm8 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:23 pm That's not how I remember things, as an early Novak fan. He was never incredibly well-liked by the general tennis fandom and was especially despised by Federer fans (which at the time seemed like most tennis fans), because he frustrated Federer, because of his obnoxious parents and because he would retire frequently. His impressions, which I found lighthearted, were seen as obnoxious and self-aggrandizing.

Then he got some media training, shut up his parents, fixed his stamina, and became more statesman-like. It, along with winning, got him some more fans and shut down some of the negativity around him. He was still seen as annoying (post-march ritual) and bizarre (hyperbaric chamber, spiritual guru friend, etc. ).

Then last year, he screwed himself over and it's back to being actively disliked.

^ That's pretty much how I remember it. I would add that in his first few years, he wasn't very well liked by other players, either - Roddick used to ridicule his lack of stamina, for one.

I don't particularly like him - I don't like his personality, or his playing style... but the degree to which he has completely turned around his stamina problems is truly admirable. He has gone from being the player with the worst stamina to being the player with the best stamina, by far. And that is quite an accomplishment.

the Moz wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:19 am I will say for all my dislike of much that is Nolé these days, the man does back it up with results. He's worked really hard to get here. This is sport and he's the winner right now. Good on him.

Mats Wilander, ages ago, said this about Lendl (paraphrase): "In the past, you knew that all you needed to do with Lendl was to get to 4-4, and he would give you the set. Now, you get to 4-4 and you know there is no way you can win the set. What he did mentally was incredible".
Novak is another proof that the mental part can be improved. And yes, I don't "like" him either, but the results are impossible to refute.

His family wasn't exactly awful to start. They were loud and hard to take, but a microphone wasn't being put in the dad's face much back then. Back then, Sharapova and Ivanovic were sitting in his box from time to time, we saw his box and didn't hear from them a ton. But that got much worse obviously before it got to the point of him telling them to stay home at times.

The impressions were seen as very funny by plenty, I can remember the crowd at US Open loving them and wildly cheering him on. But then he couldn't read the room, kept doing them, did even more impressions and the way they were viewed quickly changed and seen as obnoxious (because they largely were - doing those once or twice is different than that becoming your regular schtick). I think not reading the room is a forever kind of a theme with Novak personally.

As for incidents that derailed him, the thing with Roddick started it to me and it sort of spiraled from there. Then he got a bit better after that, I remember him (getting some media training and a plan) using McEnroe to dampen the dislike at US Open somewhat, but never regained the same crowd support and his parents got worse and more vocal. Plenty of small things happened too, to just erode the fandom little by little. Then he yelled at a child in Miami and it's been pretty bumpy ever since with crowds I think. I can't really think of top player who has scared ball kids more than him, there might be and we just don't see them as much. But he has too many to recall. Then of course he made those lovely comments he made about women. Just so, so many things.

I think last year was certainly bad for him, but I didn't find it surprising that he was involved in those series of events at all. More like a continuation of his history.

Okay y'all are getting psychic. Didn't someone ask about her the other day?

Starting with post #710 in the PLAYERS TOPIC, we had a few exchanges about her future plans.
And we were just wondering.
So now, with one former Swiss Olympic Silver medalist retiring, that should be enough for the year, right?

I can safely say that a "top" tennis player admitting that he is unable to think his way through a match was not on my bingo card today.





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Since when do all pro players have coaches at their disposal?

And Stef, you out here begging to legalize your crutch?

That cracked me up (Kobe).
Well, just when I thought "Give Stefanos a chance. He has a gorgeous one handed backhand (well, not terrible), he plays well, he pushed Novak to the limit at RG, give him a chance".
And then he wants his dad to sit by his side on every point. Who, please, who can I root for in this generation?
(No, I can't root for Matteo. I do that and my GF hangs a poster of him on the wall. Out of the question).

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:24 pm That cracked me up (Kobe).
Well, just when I thought "Give Stefanos a chance. He has a gorgeous one handed backhand (well, not terrible), he plays well, he pushed Novak to the limit at RG, give him a chance".
And then he wants his dad to sit by his side on every point. Who, please, who can I root for in this generation?
(No, I can't root for Matteo. I do that and my GF hangs a poster of him on the wall. Out of the question).

People complain about the Big 3 dominating men's tennis into their "dotage" but good grief who in the Next Gen (forget the ones who came up right after the Three) will be able to compare to them? If you need your hand held through every point how can you claim to be a great tennis player? Tennis is all about one individual vs another and figuring out how to neutralize your opponents game. If you can't do that should you be playing tennis, and being paid as if you're at the top of the game - at all? I agree ponchi who will we fans be able to root for?

As for Matteo...


posted by @tennishead.net

Quentin Moynet
@QuentinMoynet
L'échange Kyrgios-Tsitsipas sur l'idée du Grec d'autoriser le coaching entre chaque point.
Translated from French by Google
The Kyrgios-Tsitsipas exchange on the idea of the Greek to allow coaching between each point.