'22 Wimbledon Day 8 OoP & Discussion

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Re: '22 Day 8 OoP & Discussion

#61

Post by ponchi101 »

The match is totally forgettable. It has no appeal.
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Re: '22 Day 8 OoP & Discussion

#62

Post by jazzyg »

That was a shot for the ages by Nadal right there.

First interesting point of the match.
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Re: '22 Day 8 OoP & Discussion

#63

Post by nelslus »

ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:03 pmSerious here (since you have worked with social issues all your life, you have more expertise than I do in the subject). In what way would winning Wimbledon make Kyrgios a better person on court? If he has had the depth of analysis to openly talk about mental-health issues in his life, how come he cannot see how detrimental to his public persona his pattern of behavior is?
Last. Somebody else mentioned that maybe Nick was the one that suffered from bullying. I find that hard to accept vis-a-vis. He is a big bloke, his older brother looks like a refrigerator. Big men with a support are not the ones that receive bullying, generally. And his family does not strike me as a family that does not support him. Again, the brother was very vocal early in his career on his unequivocal support for Nick ("Shut up and watch greatness" he replied to some people complaining about Nick's beha6'4vior), his mom was very frequently in the stands, obviously cheering, now his father is there for the first time and this man does not look as one of those domineering, un-supporting dad's (Jim Pierce, Yuri Sharapov, the tragic figures over Dokic and Lucic).
Again, serious question.
Excellent questions. First, let me emphasize that I am not a therapist or psychologist. (Albeit, let me also add how often, when you are working with folks, you'll see how psychologists and psychiatrist can wildly disagree on diagnoses with clients.) Any of my opinions expressed here are primarily from my many years of experiences professionally and as a volunteer in the social services, my degrees and continual trainings and reading updated research, and my personal mental health issues- major depression with some anxiety.

NEVERTHELESS, I'd say it's quite safe to say that Nick looks like a case of borderline, narcissistic issues. Personally, I'd want to see him get assessed (if this hasn't already happened) for any possible schizoaffective disorder- but, not sure of that. I see at least potential signs of a history of some kind of abuse, be it physical, emotional, sexual, etc., of course I could not say, and of course I can't say this with certainty- but, the family history IMO definitely at least should be looked into. Remember that Nick and his brother were not 6'4" imposing children. And, abusive adults can insert control and abuse for years, even if, say, a teenager has reached the age when they could beat up their abuser. Years of abuse take a heavy toll. For sure, ponchi, especially when it comes to abuse and/or mental health issues- banish, from now on, any thoughts of, for example, "this man does not look as one of those domineering, un-supporting dads." While, sure, some abusers (Jim Pierce, Dokic's father) are obvious- many are not. The cliche is true- we never know what goes on behind closed doors.

Now, while there are certainly common symptoms and reactions that tend to take place with different kinds of mental health issues- like with all humans, we all have different feelings reactions to situations. So, could winning Wimbledon make him act like a better person on court? I think no one can be certain of this. What I can say, for anyone with any kind of depth, what you realize is that, anything external is never going to "fix" any deep issues. Look, on an obviously far smaller scale, years ago as a performer, I had the experience of stopping shows- getting standing ovations in the middle of shows- and best believe, I damned well deserved them. Did that feel incredible at those times? Damned right. Did it deeply change me? Sadly, no. In fact, among the sane and sad reasons that I gave up performing on and off through the years is, one of the reasons I gave up performing is that my self-esteem was so low back in the day, I quit because I felt a loser like me didn't deserve any of that. It all messed with my head too much, and made me wildly uncomfortable afterwards. As those in 12-step programs know, there are never enough Wimbledon titles, Academy awards, sex, drugs, alcohol, gambling, shopping, etc. to fill the emptiness. Of course, it's far, far better to have money vs. being poor, being attractive vs. being homely and all that. But, that's why there can be so many screwed up actors, sports heroes, celebrities, stars, etc. The highs never really fix the lows.

I definitely do respect Nick for his being upfront about his mental health issues and his experiences with self-harm. There can be so many reasons for folks- family, personal, cultural- not to seek therapy, and not to admit to it. And, I believe that he's mentioned getting some therapy, and perhaps also medications? Definitely hope so. When, for example (and I didn't see much of his match with Tsitsipas), Nick was obsessively muttering to himself- I got how annoying that would be to many. It made me sad and anxious for him- because I also get how absolutely and truly frightening it can be to feel completely out of control with your feelings and words.

I get why folks hate on Nick. Look, let me make it clear that, you can still be a bipolar a-hole, a blind a-hole, an LGBTQI a-hole, etc. When your mind goes off, it definitely can make it far more likely to act like an a-hole- and, YES, perhaps I have some direct experience with this. :gorgeous: IMO, Nick needs to learn to find ways to stop taking things out on himself and others. What he said to Nakashima today is disgraceful. I'd still like to suggest that, perhaps temper the Nick-hate with some compassion, as I do feel he too often just feels out of control.
Last edited by nelslus on Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: '22 Day 8 OoP & Discussion

#64

Post by nelslus »

jazzyg wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:14 pm This is a surprisingly pathetic performance by Van De Zandschulp.
Re: Almost all Rafa and Novak matches, I'd go with, this is an unsurprisingly pathetic performance by (fill in the blank of the name of the latest useless scrub.) :D
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 8 OoP & Discussion

#65

Post by ti-amie »

Halep destroyed Paula, who didn't seem willing or able to up her level. That gave Simona the confidence boost she needed and that was that.

Harmony realized where she was today and was unable to settle into the match. Her junk balling should've bother Anisimova but she was tight and that was that. If that little girl who was cheering her on, said to be Meilen Tu's niece, ever takes up tennis look out. That little girl is fierce.

I also got to see Canadian junior Victoria Mboko. There's a lot of potential there but it was unsettling to see the heavy tape on her thigh and the kinesio around her knee. We'll see.

Of all the US men I find Fritz the least objectionable. He's been quietly going to Europe for the last few years and taking his lumps in order to learn. It may be paying off for him now.

I read Alizé pulled her usual stunts. I was glad to see Ajla win though. She's been in a bit of a slump lately.

Woz said something to the effect that she first played Cornet when she (Woz) was eight and she was limping then too.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 8 OoP & Discussion

#66

Post by meganfernandez »

Cuckoo4Coco wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:36 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote:My one friend is coming over for some 4 of July grilling food that my Grandpa and My Brothers are cooking up, but I told her that part of the festivities is definitely going to be watching the Anisimova & Tan match. This friend is not a tennis player so she will just have to deal. :lol:
Maybe she will be a fan after watching the match with you! I am always torn between hanging out with family and friends over the 4th and watching hours of tennis.


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She might, we have been friends for many years now. Many years for two teens that are 16 years old. :lol: She knows that I am a crazy tennis fan. She knows what she has to deal with.

Speaking of tennis and more really classless acts from Nick Kyrgios in screaming "You're Done" to Brandon Nakashima while about to go up 5-1 in the 5th set. Even John McEnroe had no words for that.
He… what? He did this??


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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 8 OoP & Discussion

#67

Post by Cuckoo4Coco »

meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:22 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:36 pm
Maybe she will be a fan after watching the match with you! I am always torn between hanging out with family and friends over the 4th and watching hours of tennis.


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She might, we have been friends for many years now. Many years for two teens that are 16 years old. :lol: She knows that I am a crazy tennis fan. She knows what she has to deal with.

Speaking of tennis and more really classless acts from Nick Kyrgios in screaming "You're Done" to Brandon Nakashima while about to go up 5-1 in the 5th set. Even John McEnroe had no words for that.
He… what? He did this??


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Yep, if you watch set # 5 when Kyrgios is about to go up 5 games to 1 on Brandon he screams out something and then "You're Done!!!" John McEnroe and the other commentator on ESPN couldn't believe it.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 8 OoP & Discussion

#68

Post by meganfernandez »

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:34 pm
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:22 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote:
She might, we have been friends for many years now. Many years for two teens that are 16 years old. :lol: She knows that I am a crazy tennis fan. She knows what she has to deal with.

Speaking of tennis and more really classless acts from Nick Kyrgios in screaming "You're Done" to Brandon Nakashima while about to go up 5-1 in the 5th set. Even John McEnroe had no words for that.
He… what? He did this??


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Yep, if you watch set # 5 when Kyrgios is about to go up 5 games to 1 on Brandon he screams out something and then "You're Done!!!" John McEnroe and the other commentator on ESPN couldn't believe it.
Should be unsportsmanlike conduct.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 8 OoP & Discussion

#69

Post by Cuckoo4Coco »

meganfernandez wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:12 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:34 pm
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:22 pm
He… what? He did this??


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Yep, if you watch set # 5 when Kyrgios is about to go up 5 games to 1 on Brandon he screams out something and then "You're Done!!!" John McEnroe and the other commentator on ESPN couldn't believe it.
Should be unsportsmanlike conduct.
Should have been , but it got the usual nothing. Brandon didn't even acknowledge it and just moved right onto the next point.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 8 OoP & Discussion

#70

Post by Deuce »

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:15 pm Nick Kyrgios everytime I watch him play he does something even more foolish than the last match. Only down one break he thinks it is better to just throw his last service game and head to the 5th set and take his chances. I hope that Brandon sends him packing so badly.
^ Many players do something similar to this.
Of the things to criticize Kyrgios for, this would be last on my list.
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:16 am
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:12 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:34 pm Yep, if you watch set # 5 when Kyrgios is about to go up 5 games to 1 on Brandon he screams out something and then "You're Done!!!" John McEnroe and the other commentator on ESPN couldn't believe it.
Should be unsportsmanlike conduct.
Should have been , but it got the usual nothing. Brandon didn't even acknowledge it and just moved right onto the next point.
That's the best way to handle Nick, i think - just go about your business and ignore his nonsense.
Of course, if one is the confrontational type, that would be good, too. I'm pretty sure that Nick would become completely unglued if an opponent truly got 'in his face' and confronted him about his behaviour (and his incredible hypocrisy), and made him accountable for the things he does and says.

Insofar as the subject of his psychological make-up goes... of course none of us know the source of his problems. But he is very obviously an incredibly insecure individual.
And when it comes to abuse, bullying, etc. - that stuff wears many faces. Abuse and bullying can be psychological and/or emotional just as much (or more) than it can be physical or sexual. And so one's physical size is entirely irrelevant when it comes to being the victim of abuse.
Also - many bullies were bullied or abused in some way when they were young.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 8 OoP & Discussion

#71

Post by Deuce »

ti-amie wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:21 pm I also got to see Canadian junior Victoria Mboko. There's a lot of potential there but it was unsettling to see the heavy tape on her thigh and the kinesio around her knee. We'll see.
^ Glad you got to see her.
I think many more will be seeing her in 3 or 4 years.
ti-amie wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:21 pm Of all the US men I find Fritz the least objectionable. He's been quietly going to Europe for the last few years and taking his lumps in order to learn. It may be paying off for him now.
^ Fritz is the definition of 'vanilla'. He's just... there. Never any controversy surrounding him... nothing spectacular about his game...
He is the absolute opposite and antithesis of Kyrgios in every way.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 8 OoP & Discussion

#72

Post by Cuckoo4Coco »

Deuce wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:20 am
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:15 pm Nick Kyrgios everytime I watch him play he does something even more foolish than the last match. Only down one break he thinks it is better to just throw his last service game and head to the 5th set and take his chances. I hope that Brandon sends him packing so badly.
^ Many players do something similar to this.
Of the things to criticize Kyrgios for, this would be last on my list.
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:16 am
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:12 am

Should be unsportsmanlike conduct.
Should have been , but it got the usual nothing. Brandon didn't even acknowledge it and just moved right onto the next point.
That's the best way to handle Nick, i think - just go about your business and ignore his nonsense.
Of course, if one is the confrontational type, that would be good, too. I'm pretty sure that Nick would become completely unglued if an opponent truly got 'in his face' and confronted him about his behaviour (and his incredible hypocrisy), and made him accountable for the things he does and says.

Insofar as the subject of his psychological make-up goes... of course none of us know the source of his problems. But he is very obviously an incredibly insecure individual.
And when it comes to abuse, bullying, etc. - that stuff wears many faces. Abuse and bullying can be psychological and/or emotional just as much (or more) than it can be physical or sexual. And so one's physical size is entirely irrelevant when it comes to being the victim of abuse.
Also - many bullies were bullied or abused in some way when they were young.
Kyrgios definitely feeds into what he does. You could see it in the Stef match. When Stef started to feed into what he was doing and slammed a shot of the back wall Nick had a big smile on his face. Nick also after all the crap he was doing would then turn things into what Stef did in his frustration to the nonsense of the match. Now Nick did have a beef with the whole ball being hit in the stands, but all the other stuff he just ran his mouth about Stef.

In the next match Brandon Nakashima didn't feed into the nonsense at all and for the most part it was a lot less than the previous match.

I don't know what is really going on in Nick's head and what makes him act this way because I am not a Psychologist, but he obviously becomes unglued really easily.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 8 OoP & Discussion

#73

Post by Deuce »

When I say that Kyrgios would become unglued rather quickly if another player truly confronted and challenged him on his behaviour, I mean that it would significantly affect his tennis - because being challenged would make him terrified of being exposed, and being disliked by everyone.
I'd even go so far as to say that if another player ever truly confronted/challenged him on his behaviour, it could very well be the end of Nick's tennis career - because he is incredibly fragile psychologically and emotionally.

I don't think he became unglued in the Tsitsipas match - Kyrgios was the maestro of that match, and was in total control of the 'mood' of the match. Tsitsipas was the one who became unglued by Nick's behaviours and manipulations.
As you say, Nakashima didn't buy into the nonsense - he ignored it and kept on his own path. And the result was that he came closer to beating Kyrgios than Tsitsipas did, despite Tsitsipas being a better player than Nakashima right now.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 8 OoP & Discussion

#74

Post by Cuckoo4Coco »

Deuce wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:32 pm When I say that Kyrgios would become unglued rather quickly if another player truly confronted and challenged him on his behaviour, I mean that it would significantly affect his tennis - because being challenged would make him terrified of being exposed, and being disliked by everyone.
I'd even go so far as to say that if another player ever truly confronted/challenged him on his behaviour, it could very well be the end of Nick's tennis career - because he is incredibly fragile psychologically and emotionally.

I don't think he became unglued in the Tsitsipas match - Kyrgios was the maestro of that match, and was in total control of the 'mood' of the match. Tsitsipas was the one who became unglued by Nick's behaviours and manipulations.
As you say, Nakashima didn't buy into the nonsense - he ignored it and kept on his own path. And the result was that he came closer to beating Kyrgios than Tsitsipas did, despite Tsitsipas being a better player than Nakashima right now.
In the Tsitsipas match when the Chair Umpire loudly responded that Nick was going to challenge a call and you could hear in his voice he was irritated by Nick's antics you could see a little that Nick was surprised by the out burst by the chair umpire. Now that wasn't from his opponent and he just kept going and did what he had to do to win the match his way, but that outburst by the chair umpire shocked him a bit at least for a minute.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 8 OoP & Discussion

#75

Post by meganfernandez »

Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:01 pm
Deuce wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:32 pm When I say that Kyrgios would become unglued rather quickly if another player truly confronted and challenged him on his behaviour, I mean that it would significantly affect his tennis - because being challenged would make him terrified of being exposed, and being disliked by everyone.
I'd even go so far as to say that if another player ever truly confronted/challenged him on his behaviour, it could very well be the end of Nick's tennis career - because he is incredibly fragile psychologically and emotionally.

I don't think he became unglued in the Tsitsipas match - Kyrgios was the maestro of that match, and was in total control of the 'mood' of the match. Tsitsipas was the one who became unglued by Nick's behaviours and manipulations.
As you say, Nakashima didn't buy into the nonsense - he ignored it and kept on his own path. And the result was that he came closer to beating Kyrgios than Tsitsipas did, despite Tsitsipas being a better player than Nakashima right now.
In the Tsitsipas match when the Chair Umpire loudly responded that Nick was going to challenge a call and you could hear in his voice he was irritated by Nick's antics you could see a little that Nick was surprised by the out burst by the chair umpire. Now that wasn't from his opponent and he just kept going and did what he had to do to win the match his way, but that outburst by the chair umpire shocked him a bit at least for a minute.
I've seen Carlos Bernardes telling Nick to "Stop. Stop. Stop" over and over when Nick was going off on him, and it didn't work.

But I agree, if anyone ever confronted Nick about it on court, maybe he'd shut it down, but it depends.

I like the way Brandon responded, and hopefully Nick apologized in the locker room - that was so bush league.
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