'22 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

Talk and announcements about the big 4 tournaments
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

#31

Post by Cuckoo4Coco »

Deuce wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:46 pm ^ ... and who very well may not have gone as deep if the banned players had been playing.

We'll never know what would have happened, but there were definitely some significant players missing.
The way I think about the banned players is would it have changed the way that the players in the draw played? No it wouldn't have. Jabeur & Rybakina still would have had outstanding tournaments and yeah maybe they would have come up against a Russian player or they may not have, but the way they were playing tennis in this tournament was pretty darn solid so they really earned in my opinion where they got to.

The same thing can be said on the men's side and mostly towards Nick Kyrgios. As much as I do not like his antics he is playing one heck of a tournament and even if the Russian players were in the tournament who is to say that he wouldn't have taken them down. He has played some really impressive tennis other than his antics. As for Djokovic pretty much everyone expected him to be here anyway so that doesn't make any difference anyway.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

#32

Post by ti-amie »

I think Taylor Fritz had the right reaction in his quarterfinal loss. He was angry and disappointed in himself. He still managed to be polite and gracious. Different personalities.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

#33

Post by Deuce »

I think both the men's and women's draws would have played out significantly differently if the banned players would have played.
Even if none of the players who surprised by going deep would have played one of the banned players directly, there would have been a difference in the way the draws played out.
The seedings would have been different, for one, which would have put a different spin on the entire draw... etc., etc.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

#34

Post by Cuckoo4Coco »

Deuce wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:37 pm I think both the men's and women's draws would have played out significantly differently if the banned players would have played.
Even if none of the players who surprised by going deep would have played one of the banned players directly, there would have been a difference in the way the draws played out.
The seedings would have been different, for one, which would have put a different spin on the entire draw... etc., etc.
That is true, but you have to agree that Nick Kyrgios other than his crazy antics has been playing lights out tennis and would have been tough to beat by anyone who came up against him in the draw. Novak is Novak and just seems to win. I do think that Medvedev would have given any of these two finalists a huge challenge for sure.

On the ladies side coming into this everyone was so high on Iga and it seems like on the ladies side of things no matter if the banned players were in the draw or out there still would have been a ton of upsets. Ons Jabeur until the final played an awesome tournament and Elena did as well although she relied a lot on her hard hitting strokes and serve to get her through. Things might of turned out differently for her along the way, but in the final today she adjusted from making 17 unforced errors and cut down of them significantly which pretty much won her the match.

So it is hard to say if the outcomes of tomorrow's men's final would be different or the ladies final and champion would have been different. I do know it is a shame these players were not allowed to participate though.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

#35

Post by mick1303 »

One thing is for sure in my mind: the ban on Russians may or may not affected the outcome of Wimbledon regarding winners, so whether or not this Wimbledon shall be asterisked will be open for debates for years to come. But the ban on Djokovic in Oz Open affected the outcome undeniably. And possibly crippled him mentally to the degree that he could not defend his Roland Garros. Instead of one ahead of Nadal he found himself one behind after January. This was the massive blow to the motivation.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

#36

Post by ponchi101 »

I can't recall anybody here denying that. I do believe that, at the level of game he has, and with his incredible success there, yes, you are right. Most likely he would have won it.
The point that some of us try to articulate is this. Australian immigration policies, at the time, mandated people to be vaccinated for C19. Our point is: the person that stopped Djokovic from entering Australia WAS HIMSELF; he did this to himself. He could have easily taken his doses in Nov-Dec 2021, and play the tournament in January.
And if he does not get vaccinated before the USO, it seems he won't be able to go there, and will lose the entire N. American circuit because (I believe) he won't be allowed to enter Canada either.
What we say is: a country has laws. I can't enter Costa Rica (for example) without a yellow fever shot. If you are an anti-vaxxer, Costa Rica is off-limits to you, regardless of who you are. The same for any African nation you go to; YF vaccination is mandatory. So his foolish, unscientific position is what did this to him. Nothing else.
And, sincerely, if he was affected so much by that episode that 5 months later he was still brooding, how come he won Rome?
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

#37

Post by mick1303 »

ponchi101 wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:39 pm I can't recall anybody here denying that. I do believe that, at the level of game he has, and with his incredible success there, yes, you are right. Most likely he would have won it.
The point that some of us try to articulate is this. Australian immigration policies, at the time, mandated people to be vaccinated for C19. Our point is: the person that stopped Djokovic from entering Australia WAS HIMSELF; he did this to himself. He could have easily taken his doses in Nov-Dec 2021, and play the tournament in January.
And if he does not get vaccinated before the USO, it seems he won't be able to go there, and will lose the entire N. American circuit because (I believe) he won't be allowed to enter Canada either.
What we say is: a country has laws. I can't enter Costa Rica (for example) without a yellow fever shot. If you are an anti-vaxxer, Costa Rica is off-limits to you, regardless of who you are. The same for any African nation you go to; YF vaccination is mandatory. So his foolish, unscientific position is what did this to him. Nothing else.
And, sincerely, if he was affected so much by that episode that 5 months later he was still brooding, how come he won Rome?
Competitive margins at the top are very small. Maybe Rome draw opened up for him to a degree that he didn't have to dig deep mentally. But in Paris against Nadal - he had to... Pure speculation on my part, of course.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

#38

Post by ponchi101 »

Oh, of course. It is not as if we are talking to him.
But, it is not as if losing to Rafa was an oddity at RG. We know the records, and the match was very close until the 4th set.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

#39

Post by mick1303 »

ponchi101 wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:39 pm I can't recall anybody here denying that. I do believe that, at the level of game he has, and with his incredible success there, yes, you are right. Most likely he would have won it.
The point that some of us try to articulate is this. Australian immigration policies, at the time, mandated people to be vaccinated for C19. Our point is: the person that stopped Djokovic from entering Australia WAS HIMSELF; he did this to himself. He could have easily taken his doses in Nov-Dec 2021, and play the tournament in January.
And if he does not get vaccinated before the USO, it seems he won't be able to go there, and will lose the entire N. American circuit because (I believe) he won't be allowed to enter Canada either.
What we say is: a country has laws. I can't enter Costa Rica (for example) without a yellow fever shot. If you are an anti-vaxxer, Costa Rica is off-limits to you, regardless of who you are. The same for any African nation you go to; YF vaccination is mandatory. So his foolish, unscientific position is what did this to him. Nothing else.
And, sincerely, if he was affected so much by that episode that 5 months later he was still brooding, how come he won Rome?
You know what is the deal with Covid-19 in Ukraine? It is pretty much forgotten. This is what happens with made up danger in face of real undeniable danger. So I can't take seriously all those COVID-driven restriction. Yellow fever - yes, this is legitimate. COVID - no. Tinkering with statistics in order to get extra-funding. Eventually just degrades to what it really is - common cold.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

#40

Post by ponchi101 »

Mick. You know, perfectly well, that we have been paying attention to the situation in Ukraine, and, indeed as you say, there is no comparison. Your country, and all of its inhabitants (which, of course, includes you) are facing a situation that for almost the entire rest of the world is hard to envision, much less understand at the level that you do.
But our point is this: we are not talking about the importance of C19. Is it a hoax, is it real, is it a cold, is it flying cancer, that is not what we are saying. We are saying that Australia, as a country, has the right to decide its policies for entry. All countries do. For example: let's forget about C19. I CANNOT enter the UK without a Visa, simply because I am Venezuelan. For us, they demand a Visa. And if I disagree, fine, but I cannot get on a train in Calais, get off in Dober, simply because I feel like it and, if the British authorities find me, tell them to KMA, because I do not agree with their traveling policies.
And Australia demanded people to be vaccinated, and he was not. And the USA does the same, so, last time I went, I needed MY VISA ($55 last year) AND proof of vaccination.
That is what we are saying.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

#41

Post by Deuce »

mick1303 wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:01 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:39 pm I can't recall anybody here denying that. I do believe that, at the level of game he has, and with his incredible success there, yes, you are right. Most likely he would have won it.
The point that some of us try to articulate is this. Australian immigration policies, at the time, mandated people to be vaccinated for C19. Our point is: the person that stopped Djokovic from entering Australia WAS HIMSELF; he did this to himself. He could have easily taken his doses in Nov-Dec 2021, and play the tournament in January.
And if he does not get vaccinated before the USO, it seems he won't be able to go there, and will lose the entire N. American circuit because (I believe) he won't be allowed to enter Canada either.
What we say is: a country has laws. I can't enter Costa Rica (for example) without a yellow fever shot. If you are an anti-vaxxer, Costa Rica is off-limits to you, regardless of who you are. The same for any African nation you go to; YF vaccination is mandatory. So his foolish, unscientific position is what did this to him. Nothing else.
And, sincerely, if he was affected so much by that episode that 5 months later he was still brooding, how come he won Rome?
You know what is the deal with Covid-19 in Ukraine? It is pretty much forgotten. This is what happens with made up danger in face of real undeniable danger. So I can't take seriously all those COVID-driven restriction. Yellow fever - yes, this is legitimate. COVID - no. Tinkering with statistics in order to get extra-funding. Eventually just degrades to what it really is - common cold.
Mick - you're wrong about COVID.
Very wrong. And it's insulting to the people who have died from COVID, and the loved ones they've left behind.

I sympathize very much with your situation in Ukraine - and I don't pretend to know how it feels to go through that. But it's no excuse for denying scientific fact.

For you to be right, there would have to be a successful conspiracy involving millions of medical experts, millions of media reporters, and millions of politicians all over the world.
And there is absolutely no way that it would be possible that that many people from those different fields could ever agree on anything together and at the same time, let alone something that is not true.
R.I.P. Amal...

“The opposite of courage is not cowardice - it’s conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow.”- Jim Hightower
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

#42

Post by mick1303 »

ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:13 pm Mick. You know, perfectly well, that we have been paying attention to the situation in Ukraine, and, indeed as you say, there is no comparison. Your country, and all of its inhabitants (which, of course, includes you) are facing a situation that for almost the entire rest of the world is hard to envision, much less understand at the level that you do.
But our point is this: we are not talking about the importance of C19. Is it a hoax, is it real, is it a cold, is it flying cancer, that is not what we are saying. We are saying that Australia, as a country, has the right to decide its policies for entry. All countries do. For example: let's forget about C19. I CANNOT enter the UK without a Visa, simply because I am Venezuelan. For us, they demand a Visa. And if I disagree, fine, but I cannot get on a train in Calais, get off in Dober, simply because I feel like it and, if the British authorities find me, tell them to KMA, because I do not agree with their traveling policies.
And Australia demanded people to be vaccinated, and he was not. And the USA does the same, so, last time I went, I needed MY VISA ($55 last year) AND proof of vaccination.
That is what we are saying.
Djokovic, as you remember, was promised by Australian tennis federation that he will get medical exemption and on this ground will enter the country. But some reporters decided to milk this situation and created "public outcry", which some politicians then in turn decided to milk and denied him the entry. Australians can do whatever they pleased with their entry policy. But if it differs significantly from the majority of other countries, then they lose the right to call their championship "open".
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

#43

Post by mick1303 »

Deuce wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:44 am
mick1303 wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:01 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:39 pm I can't recall anybody here denying that. I do believe that, at the level of game he has, and with his incredible success there, yes, you are right. Most likely he would have won it.
The point that some of us try to articulate is this. Australian immigration policies, at the time, mandated people to be vaccinated for C19. Our point is: the person that stopped Djokovic from entering Australia WAS HIMSELF; he did this to himself. He could have easily taken his doses in Nov-Dec 2021, and play the tournament in January.
And if he does not get vaccinated before the USO, it seems he won't be able to go there, and will lose the entire N. American circuit because (I believe) he won't be allowed to enter Canada either.
What we say is: a country has laws. I can't enter Costa Rica (for example) without a yellow fever shot. If you are an anti-vaxxer, Costa Rica is off-limits to you, regardless of who you are. The same for any African nation you go to; YF vaccination is mandatory. So his foolish, unscientific position is what did this to him. Nothing else.
And, sincerely, if he was affected so much by that episode that 5 months later he was still brooding, how come he won Rome?
You know what is the deal with Covid-19 in Ukraine? It is pretty much forgotten. This is what happens with made up danger in face of real undeniable danger. So I can't take seriously all those COVID-driven restriction. Yellow fever - yes, this is legitimate. COVID - no. Tinkering with statistics in order to get extra-funding. Eventually just degrades to what it really is - common cold.
Mick - you're wrong about COVID.
Very wrong. And it's insulting to the people who have died from COVID, and the loved ones they've left behind.

I sympathize very much with your situation in Ukraine - and I don't pretend to know how it feels to go through that. But it's no excuse for denying scientific fact.

For you to be right, there would have to be a successful conspiracy involving millions of medical experts, millions of media reporters, and millions of politicians all over the world.
And there is absolutely no way that it would be possible that that many people from those different fields could ever agree on anything together and at the same time, let alone something that is not true.
Regarding the people who died from Covid: each death is a tragedy for the loved ones. But if you look closely, you will find out that Covid statistics were carefully tinkered with. Many people who died had other serious conditions. And people who have serious conditions can get complications if contracting another illness on top of already compromised state. Common cold or any other virus could be that another illness. It happened, happens and will continue to happen unfortunately.

And you also know what will get all those different people to agree on something? Getting paid. All conspiracies boil down to this.
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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

#44

Post by Deuce »

As I said - it's fundamentally - and logistically - impossible to get that many people to all agree to lie to the world in the exact same way at the same time.
It has never happened in the history of mankind, and it never will.
Because it's absolutely impossible.
R.I.P. Amal...

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Re: '22 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

#45

Post by mick1303 »

Deuce wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:53 am As I said - it's fundamentally - and logistically - impossible to get that many people to all agree to lie to the world in the exact same way at the same time.
It has never happened in the history of mankind, and it never will.
Because it's absolutely impossible.
I don’t think that an agreement on the necessity of these measures was that unilateral as you’re describing.
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