'22 USO Mens Draw & Discussion

Talk and announcements about the big 4 tournaments

Final 8. Who wins?

Poll ended at Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:44 pm

Kyrgios
4
57%
Khachanov
0
No votes
Berrettini
0
No votes
Ruud
1
14%
Sinner
1
14%
Alcaraz
1
14%
Rublev
0
No votes
Tiafoe
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 7

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Re: '22 USO Mens Draw & Discussion

#16

Post by ashkor87 »

LilMissBubbles wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 2:05 pm If Nadal does not withdraw from the tournament, then I see a Medvedev and Nadal final. If he does withdraw, then Sinner could take advantage of that bottom half and advance to the final against Medvedev.
i concur
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Re: '22 USO Mens Draw & Discussion

#17

Post by skatingfan »

I don't see Medvedev making the final.
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Re: '22 USO Mens Draw & Discussion

#18

Post by jazzyg »

I don't see Tsitsipas as a contender to win. He did not even play well in his win over Medvedev in Cincy. It was a terrible match.

I credit Tsitsipas for his all-around ability and will power, but his level has dropped off since his RG loss to Djokovic.
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Re: '22 USO Mens Draw & Discussion

#19

Post by skatingfan »

jazzyg wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:23 pm I don't see Tsitsipas as a contender to win. He did not even play well in his win over Medvedev in Cincy. It was a terrible match.

I credit Tsitsipas for his all-around ability and will power, but his level has dropped off since his RG loss to Djokovic.
There were times in the final against Coric when he clearly wasn't trying on some points.
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Re: '22 USO Mens Draw & Discussion

#20

Post by ti-amie »

Interesting posts by a man who runs a podcast about the ATP Challenger Tour











P1
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Re: '22 USO Mens Draw & Discussion

#21

Post by ti-amie »

P2/L





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Re: '22 USO Mens Draw & Discussion

#22

Post by meganfernandez »

jazzyg wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:23 pm I don't see Tsitsipas as a contender to win. He did not even play well in his win over Medvedev in Cincy. It was a terrible match.
Weird, I thought it was a good match and Tsitsipas played some of his most inspired tennis in a long time.
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Re: '22 USO Mens Draw & Discussion

#23

Post by jazzyg »

Yes, you and I also have differing opinions about Medvedev, too.

I believe he is a contender, but I don't like how far he stands behind the baseline without having the topspin to make that position work. Guys are starting to realize they can attack him at the net, but it takes talent like Tsitsipas has to make it pay off. Watching that match, I was positive Tsitsipas would go down in straights to the hot-serving Coric without raising his level.

As for Tsitsipas, his return of serve stinks. It's the least-talked-about, most important shot on hard courts, and he puts himself in constant trouble by missing returns or hitting them short. Hard to win titles that way. They had a graphic during Cincinnati that showed how much of a higher percentage of returns he made on clay than on hard courts, which is why his best results have come on clay.
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Re: '22 USO Mens Draw & Discussion

#24

Post by meganfernandez »

jazzyg wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 3:05 pm Yes, you and I also have differing opinions about Medvedev, too.

I believe he is a contender, but I don't like how far he stands behind the baseline without having the topspin to make that position work. Guys are starting to realize they can attack him at the net, but it takes talent like Tsitsipas has to make it pay off. Watching that match, I was positive Tsitsipas would go down in straights to the hot-serving Coric without raising his level.

As for Tsitsipas, his return of serve stinks. It's the least-talked-about, most important shot on hard courts, and he puts himself in constant trouble by missing returns or hitting them short. Hard to win titles that way. They had a graphic during Cincinnati that showed how much of a higher percentage of returns he made on clay than on hard courts, which is why his best results have come on clay.
You definitely have far superior analytical skill than I do. :) I'll pay attention to Tsitsipas's return next time I watch him. I love this kind of insight from you.

Regarding Med and his position behind the baseline not working - it has worked, right? I figured guys always knew they could attack that position, but Medvedev simply wins that battle. Why do you think that won't keep working? And Nadal didn't attack the net - that's not how he beat Medvedev in Melbourne, was it? Maybe it helped Kyrgios. He seems to win a lot of points us there vs Medvedev, but that's best of 3.
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Re: '22 USO Mens Draw & Discussion

#25

Post by jazzyg »

Your analytical skills are quite good actually. For starters, you were so right a few years ago that Sabalenka was not ready to win a slam at the time when I was all over her chances.

Medvedev is very talented, but he lost to Djokovic indoors late last year because Djokovic started serving and volleying, Kyrgios employed the same tactic in Canada, and Tsitsipas got to the net a lot in Cincinnati. Medvedev has won only one tournament all year, so he is not having as much success as he did last year.

As for that Aussie final against Nadal, we'll disagree about this to the end of the earth, but Medvedev lost that because he outright choked and let the crowd get to him. Nadal did not win that match. Medvedev lost it. Getting distracted during matches is another of his weaknesses, and it is one reason his record against Nadal is so poor. He was up something like 5-1 in the decisive set a few year ago at the year-end Masters and found a way to lose. There are many things I like about Medvedev, but I find his overall demeanor a little distasteful. I can't stand it when players go off on their coaches during matches as if whatever is happening is the coach's fault. There is a immaturity to Medvedev at his core.
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Re: '22 USO Mens Draw & Discussion

#26

Post by meganfernandez »

jazzyg wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 4:24 pm Your analytical skills are quite good actually. For starters, you were so right a few years ago that Sabalenka was not ready to win a slam at the time when I was all over her chances.

Medvedev is very talented, but he lost to Djokovic indoors late last year because Djokovic started serving and volleying, Kyrgios employed the same tactic in Canada, and Tsitsipas got to the net a lot in Cincinnati. Medvedev has won only one tournament all year, so he is not having as much success as he did last year.

As for that Aussie final against Nadal, we'll disagree about this to the end of the earth, but Medvedev lost that because he outright choked and let the crowd get to him. Nadal did not win that match. Medvedev lost it. Getting distracted during matches is another of his weaknesses, and it is one reason his record against Nadal is so poor. He was up something like 5-1 in the decisive set a few year ago at the year-end Masters and found a way to lose. There are many things I like about Medvedev, but I find his overall demeanor a little distasteful. I can't stand it when players go off on their coaches during matches as if whatever is happening is the coach's fault. There is a immaturity to Medvedev at his core.
I'm flattered you remember my Sabalenka outrage of January 2019. That was less analytical and more about the whims of tennis fans/media to pick a new name without appreciation for Slam experience and bonafides. There were like 15 or so Slam winners in the draw, so the Sabalenka pick was nonsensical to me (she had only won 4 slam matches at that point - 3 R1 losses, 1 R2 loss, and a R4 run at the US Open the year before, as part of that blazing late summer/fall). Ended up being Osaka vs Kvitova in the final, two proven Slam champs. I've been proven wrong about experience in the last few years, but I still think it has a lot of value. Which is why I am high on Garcia right now and still high on Sabalenka.

I believe you that Medvedev lost the Aussie final to a degree. Not sure how many opponents could have taken advantage in the situation like Rafa did, so against anyone else it might not have gone down as a choke. Maybe Rafa makes you choke more so than most opponents. That kind of thing? But very good point about Medvedev's concentration. I wouldn't have thought that because he seems to manage matches better than almost anyone and have otherworldly confidence. But you could be right!
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Re: '22 USO Mens Draw & Discussion

#27

Post by jazzyg »

For all his mental strength--and he will probably deservedly go down as the strongest mental player ever--Rafa had not come back from two sets down to win a match in more than 10 year. On the few times he is getting comprehensively beaten, he has shown much less ability to recover than Djokovic. He actually played very well in the fourth and fifth sets against Medvedev, but in my view, he looked and acted as if he were a beaten man midway through that third set. Djokovic for sure would have finished him off. Medvedev chose to get angry at the crowd after blowing an 0-40 lead for what would have been a break in the third set.

It's funny. I singled out Medvedev as my favorite of all the young players a few years ago and the guy with the most potential. Then he achieved all of that and more, and I soured on him a bit to the point I now feel he is overrated. We shall see. He still remains on my list of four-or-so favorites to win this.
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Re: '22 USO Mens Draw & Discussion

#28

Post by meganfernandez »

jazzyg wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 5:38 pm For all his mental strength--and he will probably deservedly go down as the strongest mental player ever--Rafa had not come back from two sets down to win a match in more than 10 year. On the few times he is getting comprehensively beaten, he has shown much less ability to recover than Djokovic. He actually played very well in the fourth and fifth sets against Medvedev, but in my view, he looked and acted as if he were a beaten man midway through that third set. Djokovic for sure would have finished him off. Medvedev chose to get angry at the crowd after blowing an 0-40 lead for what would have been a break in the third set.

It's funny. I singled out Medvedev as my favorite of all the young players a few years ago and the guy with the most potential. Then he achieved all of that and more, and I soured on him a bit to the point I now feel he is overrated. We shall see. He still remains on my list of four-or-so favorites to win this.
You're just trying to get ahead of the Medvedev fatigue. :)
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Re: '22 USO Mens Draw & Discussion

#29

Post by ti-amie »

Interesting point(s) about Medvedev and concentration.

Watching Ben Shelton today I thought that as he ages his focus/concentration will improve. I thought the five set format after doing well in hard court warmups might be a bit much for him and there were times in the match when he was in a position to press Borges and didn't. Recognizing when you've got your opponent on the ropes and upping your game is important to winning at the pro level no?

Anyway not a big fan of Medvedev but I loved the discussion between you two. Thanks.
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Re: '22 USO Mens Draw & Discussion

#30

Post by ponchi101 »

Recognizing you have your opponent on the ropes is important, but it cuts both ways. Players that are on the ropes also can see it, and maybe will play better.
Paraphrasing Roddick: you have your opponent on the ropes and you hit too hard and out? You are reckless. You have him on the ropes and you play conservative? You did not go for it.
Tough sport.
Anyway, there is a reason why he is still only Ben Shelton, "potential" good player.
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