'22 USO Day 7 OoP & Discussion

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Deuce Canada
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Re: '22 USO Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#61

Post by Deuce »

McEnroe's psychological issues are pretty well documented, I think... the depression, the drug and alcohol abuse... in addition to his extreme behaviour on-court.
And I think any competent psychologist or sociologist will tell you that pretty much all bullies have 'mental issues'.

Of course, this discussion hinges on what one's definition of 'mental issues' is. Almost all bullies are very insecure. Is deep insecurity a 'mental issue'? To me, it certainly is.
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Re: '22 USO Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#62

Post by Deuce »

Tomljanovic won the 2nd set easily, by the way.
Samsonova just couldn't play at a decent level today, for whatever reason.
R.I.P. Amal...

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Re: '22 USO Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#63

Post by nelslus »

ponchi101 wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:46 am We spoke about that before. How do we reach a diagnosis that somebody has mental issues, simply by the fact of his behavior on court? He does not lack confidence on court, and his attitude there is "I am way better than you". On considerable occasions, he toys with his opponents.
Why can't we also accept the possibility that he is a bully? I mean, nobody ever said Mac had mental issues, or Rios. They were simply mean-spirited players, on court.
I mean, HE is now very open now about his mental health issues, drug/alcohol about and self-harm. It's all over the internet. I also would not at all be surprised if there is some history of abuse in there? And, COME on now- this is not just about making a diagnosis from his behaviors on court.

He doesn't lack confidence on court?? Of COURSE he lacks deep self-confidence. Someone who is healthily confident does not act like a bully. He is wildly over-compensating.

Trust me- having been brutally mercilessly bullied for years as a child, I am the last person who will excuse his bullying, and disrespect with others. I'm just suggesting that this is a part of the whole picture, and to hold on to a little compassion. (Also- note that I saw very little of this match, because I can't stand all of what happens during his matches.)

Let me also add that, if it turns out that he is abusive in his relationships with women, for example, re: this court case I've read about- then, he's another Zverev to me.

PS: AND, yes, indeed McEnroe has also been open previously about his mental health issues and alcohol/drug about history. (Rios' story I know very little about.) To repeat: This is never meant to excuse lousy behaviors and actions. It's also apparent that it might be time for everyone to truly take the time to learn more about mental health issues.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/-f ... -rcna27676
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Re: '22 USO Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#64

Post by meganfernandez »

ponchi101 wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:46 am We spoke about that before. How do we reach a diagnosis that somebody has mental issues, simply by the fact of his behavior on court? He does not lack confidence on court, and his attitude there is "I am way better than you". On considerable occasions, he toys with his opponents.
Why can't we also accept the possibility that he is a bully? I mean, nobody ever said Mac had mental issues, or Rios. They were simply mean-spirited players, on court.
We don't reach a diagnosis. We don't even try go diagnose. We just discuss/wonder/ruminate/debate, hopefully remembering that we are mostly in the dark. On rare occasions, we can discuss/wonder/ruminate/debate with some valuable, informed insight. That applies to about 95% of fan conversations about sports.

People didn't talk openly about mental health when McEnroe and Rios were playing. That's one reason it probably didn't come up. Maybe not the only reason. The devil is in the details.

Personally, I don't love to make a spectator sport of analyzing someone's private matters, but discussing it can be appropriate when it's a big part of performance. In this case, I think it was appropriate even before Nick opened up about his struggle with depression.
Last edited by meganfernandez on Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: '22 USO Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#65

Post by nelslus »

ponchi101 wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:33 am Nick was patently better. To the point of toying with Daniil.
Talent levels: Obi-wan Kenobi sets up a duel with Luke. At age 5.
LOL, DAMN!!
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Re: '22 USO Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#66

Post by meganfernandez »

nelslus wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:29 am Of course, I've been far too entranced with the Tomljanovic/Samsonova thrill-fest. :gorgeous: (Ally "saved" 8 set points- i.e., Samsonova missed more or less 8 second serve returns). Ally now up 7-6, 4-0 (Samsonova may have something going on with her right knee....)

SO- what happened with that other match? Nick was great (albeit, obviously, also jerky)? Medvedev was terrible? Details, please.
I saw the first two sets, and Nick wasn't actually all that jerky except for some poutiness and his standard umpire abuse when the match was tight. I don't know if the stuff Ponchi is talking about from the fourth set was disrespectful or not.
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Re: '22 USO Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#67

Post by ponchi101 »

I did not say he was disrespectful. I said Nick was toying with Daniil, in the sense that some shot making was way over Daniil's level.
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Re: '22 USO Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#68

Post by nelslus »

I mean, Nick IMO is too often disrespectful to umpires, his opponents, etc. during matches. It sounded like he was disrespectful to the umpire today, at least? The viewers of this match of course know better than me on that. Anyway- Enough About Nick- at least for today.
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Re: '22 USO Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#69

Post by Deuce »

Jabeur takes the opening set from Kudermetova in a one-sided tiebreak...
R.I.P. Amal...

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Re: '22 USO Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#70

Post by ponchi101 »

nelslus wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:30 am I mean, Nick IMO is too often disrespectful to umpires, his opponents, etc. during matches. It sounded like he was disrespectful to the umpire today, at least? The viewers of this match of course know better than me on that. Anyway- Enough About Nick- at least for today.
Indeed. We will have three more matches to talk about him ;)
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Re: '22 USO Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#71

Post by meganfernandez »

Aww… Ons said she has been thinking of her late grandmother a lot this week for some reason, and asked for help in this tough match. Said her grandma always supported her a lot. Sweet.

I think both quarters in the bottom half will be close.


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Re: '22 USO Day 7 OoP & Discussion

#72

Post by jazzyg »

I will double down on my post from a few days ago that Medvedev is not as good as the consensus believes he is.

Ponch is right. Kyrgios could toy with him because he was so much better. Medvedev, in my opinion, is a very good but not a great player and a lot more fragile mentally than he is made out to be. For whatever reason, Djokovic was exhausted mentally by the time he reached the U.S. Open final last year and Medvedev just had to play good defense to beat him. I have a feeling Medvedev's loss to Nadal from a winning position in Australia will have a similar effect on him as Courrier's loss to Bruguera did in the '93 Roland Garros final. People wrote off that loss at the time, particularly when he then reached the Wimbledon final, but he was never a real factor again. Medvedev will be a factor, but I don't see him winning too many more slams in his career.

I had Kyrgios as the winner before the tournament (with no real confidence), and I like his chances better now. He is playing like the best player in the world.
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