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'23 RG Day 15 OoP & Discussion
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:08 pm
by ti-amie
Court PHILIPPE-CHATRIER
Women’s Doubles
FINAL
TPE SW.Hsieh/CHN X.Wang vs CAN L.Fernandez (10)/USA T.Townsend (10)
Men’s Singles
UPCOMING
FINAL
SRB N.Djokovic (3) vs NOR C.Ruud (4)
Court SUZANNE-LENGLEN
Men’s Legends
FRA M.Bahrami/FRA Y.Noah vs USA J.Mcenroe/SWE M.Wilander
Re: '23 RG Day 15 OoP & Discussion
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 2:57 pm
by jazzyg
Not sure how Ruud lost that first set. He was two points away at 0-30, 5-4 and was not ready for the moment. I guess that's why he's never won a tournament higher than the 250 level because he was hitting beautifully for the first 45 minutes.
Djokovic went into Djokovic mode at the start of the tiebreak, and that was that.
Re: '23 RG Day 15 OoP & Discussion
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 4:27 pm
by skatingfan
Djokovic is going to have a chance to set the all time record before the end of the year.
Re: '23 RG Day 15 OoP & Discussion
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 4:28 pm
by jazzyg
He won 12 of the final 13 points.
Re: '23 RG Day 15 OoP & Discussion
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 4:43 pm
by mick1303
Congratulations to all Novak fans. Well deserved victory.
Re: '23 RG Day 15 OoP & Discussion
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 4:59 pm
by ponchi101
skatingfan wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 4:27 pm
Djokovic is going to have a chance to set the all time record before the end of the year.
I say Wimby is a given, which ties him with Court. Then the USO is a place where he can play very well, so that can be also counted on.
Statistically, he has a 50% chance of a calendar year slam; after all, he has won 50% of the slams already. But realistically, the way he is playing and the way that the rest of the field is playing, I say it is even more.
Re: '23 RG Day 15 OoP & Discussion
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:04 pm
by jazzyg
I tend to agree, but for whatever reason Djokovic has struggled to win the U.S. Open over the years. From losing to Nishikori in the semis to sort of no-showing against Wawrinka in a final after benefitting from a series of injuries to his opponents to getting injured himself before playing Dimitrov to the default against Carreno Busta to succumbing to the pressure of completing the grand slam against Medvedev, there's usually been something. Even in his dominant 2011, he needed to get lucky down 40-0 and triple match point to Federer in the semis.
Objectively, it makes no sense. The surface is perfect for him. But it has been his worst slam in terms of failing to meet expectations. Obviously Nadal was a one-man blockade at Roland Garros.
Re: '23 RG Day 15 OoP & Discussion
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:09 pm
by mick1303
"tying up with Court" bears as much relevance as tying up with local bar darts champion. Let's not move the goalposts. What is critical and important that Nadal is behind.
Re: '23 RG Day 15 OoP & Discussion
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:28 pm
by ponchi101
She holds the record. Numbers are numbers.
And, as much as she is despised, the woman could play. She won her calendar slam in 1970, during the open era. So, of objectivity is to prevail, she holds the record.
Re: '23 RG Day 15 OoP & Discussion
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:15 pm
by nelslus
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:28 pm
She holds the record. Numbers are numbers.
And, as much as she is despised, the woman could play. She won her calendar slam in 1970, during the open era. So, of objectivity is to prevail, she holds the record.
In this case, numbers aren't always numbers.
Many of Margaret's singles Slam victories included Australian Open titles with very depleted fields- where only Aussies played (and at the times when there weren't Aussie players anywhere near Margaret's level), and/or when few if any challengers played. So, IMO, Margaret's #'s do not match up with Serena's or Steffi's- and, very arguably, Navratilova's and Evert's.
Re: '23 RG Day 15 OoP & Discussion
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:31 pm
by mick1303
nelslus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:15 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:28 pm
She holds the record. Numbers are numbers.
And, as much as she is despised, the woman could play. She won her calendar slam in 1970, during the open era. So, of objectivity is to prevail, she holds the record.
In this case, numbers aren't always numbers.
Many of Margaret's singles Slam victories included Australian Open titles with very depleted fields- where only Aussies played (and at the times when there weren't Aussie players anywhere near Margaret's level), and/or when few if any challengers played. So, IMO, Margaret's #'s do not match up with Serena's or Steffi's- and, very arguably, Navratilova's and Evert's.
That's not even a point. IMO this comparison with women serves a single purpose - to dilute and diminish the achievement of Novak.
Re: '23 RG Day 15 OoP & Discussion
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:41 pm
by ponchi101
Who's diminishing Novak's accomplishments? A few posts above, one member posted that it is no longer possible to deny he is the GOAT. Comparing him to Serena, for example, is valid, as they both now hold the same number of slams (Novak surpasses her in almost all other categories). We are talking here about the truly great players, and now that Novak has solidified his GOAT status, people are simply pointing out the next milestones: 24 Slams at Wimby, 25 at the USO. By now, we are only reciting the next numbers he will beat.
13 more weeks, and he gets to 400 weeks as #1, AND HE WILL. That is not diluting any of his achievements; it is simply stating factual stats.
Re: '23 RG Day 15 OoP & Discussion
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:50 pm
by nelslus
mick1303 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:31 pm
nelslus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:15 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:28 pm
She holds the record. Numbers are numbers.
And, as much as she is despised, the woman could play. She won her calendar slam in 1970, during the open era. So, of objectivity is to prevail, she holds the record.
In this case, numbers aren't always numbers.
Many of Margaret's singles Slam victories included Australian Open titles with very depleted fields- where only Aussies played (and at the times when there weren't Aussie players anywhere near Margaret's level), and/or when few if any challengers played. So, IMO, Margaret's #'s do not match up with Serena's or Steffi's- and, very arguably, Navratilova's and Evert's.
That's not even a point. IMO this comparison with women serves a single purpose - to dilute and diminish the achievement of Novak.
Just because something is not a point to YOU doesn't mean it's not a point. Almost all of us are saying that Novak is the male GOAT. So, your clear favorite is in.
Otherwise, I was just discussing about Court is all. Not in any sense to diminish the greatness of Novak. However, let me also now add- Serena is IMO the over-all GOAT. Tiebreaker: Her Olympic gold medal, vs. Novak's one bronze medal. (And I'll leave out Serena's incredible doubles accomplishments.)
Re: '23 RG Day 15 OoP & Discussion
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:56 pm
by ponchi101
And here we go again
If you include doubles in the conversation, the conversation is done because then the GOAT is Martina.
And, sorry to plagiarize you:
Re: '23 RG Day 15 OoP & Discussion
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:56 pm
by nelslus
jazzyg wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:04 pm
I tend to agree, but for whatever reason Djokovic has struggled to win the U.S. Open over the years. From losing to Nishikori in the semis to sort of no-showing against Wawrinka in a final after benefitting from a series of injuries to his opponents to getting injured himself before playing Dimitrov to the default against Carreno Busta to succumbing to the pressure of completing the grand slam against Medvedev, there's usually been something. Even in his dominant 2011, he needed to get lucky down 40-0 and triple match point to Federer in the semis.
Objectively, it makes no sense. The surface is perfect for him. But it has been his worst slam in terms of failing to meet expectations. Obviously Nadal was a one-man blockade at Roland Garros.
I mean, if we're gonna be picky (albeit I do love being picky)- all three have holes in their resumes. Roger never won a singles Olympics gold medal, and Novak just has his one bronze. Rafa never won the ATP Championship. Rafa "only" has two Wimbledon and two Aussie titles. Roger only has one Roland Garros title. Novak "only" has three Roland and US Open titles (AND, yup, that IS picky.) (LOL, the only thing really in Roger's favor is, he has a lot of titles with three Slams- the Aussie, Wimbledon and US Open).
They are human and all that. But, yup- Novak is the GOAT.