The Goat Debate

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Who is the GOAT for you

Federer
12
44%
Nadal
8
30%
Djokovic
5
19%
Laver
0
No votes
Other
2
7%
 
Total votes: 27

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mick1303 Ukraine
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Re: The Goat Debate

#136

Post by mick1303 »

Voting now, while they are still active seems premature )
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Re: The Goat Debate

#137

Post by mick1303 »

Interesting fact. I've collected already around 14K doubles matches going back to 2010. But there was not a single player in these matches, that wasn't already in my database. Granted, I was already collecting data not only from main tour, but also from challengers tour (singles). But there was not a single player (out of 1150 already listed) who is a PURE doubles specialist. Several times I thought that it was, but each time turned out just slightly different name spelling of already known player.
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Re: The Goat Debate

#138

Post by ponchi101 »

Could it be that almost all doubles players start as singles, and then move on to doubles when then can't cut it anymore?
Sole explanation I can come up with.
Although the Bryan brothers and Farrah/Cabal should not be there. I suspect they were always doubles specialists.
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Re: The Goat Debate

#139

Post by atlpam »

ponchi101 wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:43 pm Could it be that almost all doubles players start as singles, and then move on to doubles when then can't cut it anymore?
Sole explanation I can come up with.
Although the Bryan brothers and Farrah/Cabal should not be there. I suspect they were always doubles specialists.
Bob Bryan had a high singles ranking of 116. Mike's highest singles ranking was 246.
Their high singles rankings were in 2000.
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Re: The Goat Debate

#140

Post by mick1303 »

I remember seeing once one of the Bryans (don't remember who) playing a singles match for USA in Davis Cup. Looked it up. Not only did they both played singles in DC, Bob even won 4 matches.
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Re: The Goat Debate

#141

Post by mick1303 »

Even though I was interrupted by the war, eventually I continued to populate doubles results. Now I completed 2006 going backwards. I have to say - there is no intrigue on who is the best. It is Bryans. It looks like how Federer domination would've looked, if Nadal never existed. Looking at the past results I can see that Todd Woodbridge also amassed 23 doubles Slams, so there is that. But just by looking at ATP player page: Todd had 83 titles, while Mike Bryan - 124 (Bob has 119). I think the answer is pretty much known.
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Re: The Goat Debate

#142

Post by ponchi101 »

So, what is the tally, in order? The Bryans 23, Woodbridge 23, and who else is up there?
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Re: The Goat Debate

#143

Post by ashkor87 »

One of the greatest doubles players in my time was Frew McMillan of South Africa..because of apartheid and so on, he didn't play as much..but he hardly ever played singles...
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Re: The Goat Debate

#144

Post by mick1303 »

ponchi101 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:24 pm So, what is the tally, in order? The Bryans 23, Woodbridge 23, and who else is up there?

Bryan, Bob_________23
Woodbridge, Todd___23
Bryan, Mike________22
Paes, Leander______18
Woodforde, Mark____16
Nestor, Daniel_____12
Bhupathi, Mahesh___12
Newcombe, John_____11
McEnroe, John______10
Mirnyi, Max________10
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Re: The Goat Debate

#145

Post by mick1303 »

I was importing the data from TennisAbstract site the other day - filling the gaps in Davis Cup matches for Groups I and II. I'm not importing it "en mass" but doing this tie-by-tie, because I have to create an entry for each tie in my database and also because I'm trying to import doubles simultaneously (to save a bit of effort later) and he does not have doubles for Davis Cup yet. Anyway, while doing so, I've discovered that Ukraine hosted the tie against Portugal in 2018 in Bucha of all places. This kind of sends chills... Similar feeling to when you read or hear about Saraevo Olympics. But this one is closer to home.
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Re: The Goat Debate

#146

Post by nelslus »

ashkor87 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 3:25 am One of the greatest doubles players in my time was Frew McMillan of South Africa..because of apartheid and so on, he didn't play as much..but he hardly ever played singles...
?!?! Frew McMillan played plenty of singles. In singles, he made the QF at the 1972 US Open, the 3rd round three times at Wimbledon and the French Open, and got up to No. 39 in singles. It's a matter of, he obviously didn't play as well in singles as doubles. But, he did play plenty of singles. And, from what I recall, while apartheid did impact such competitions as the Davis Cup- he and Hewitt didn't miss out on all that many match opportunities due to apartheid.

Sorry, but it just bugs me a tad when TAT folks put stuff out there when the history of tennis- which I've read up a lot about (AND I was watching what was going on since the 70's with the tours. And, a lot of tennis facts are just a click or two away.) :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frew_McMillan
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Re: The Goat Debate

#147

Post by Cuckoo4Coco »

Picking either Federer, Nadal, or Djokovic is so hard. They have all accomplished so much in their careers. I chose Nadal because right now he has the most GS championships.
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Re: The Goat Debate

#148

Post by meganfernandez »

Cuckoo4Coco wrote:Picking either Federer, Nadal, or Djokovic is so hard. They have all accomplished so much in their careers. I chose Nadal because right now he has the most GS championships.
Same. If one of them ends up two or three ahead, it’s theirs. Some people will argue for Federer for the rest of my lifetime, though, and I can see why. He was the first, set the bar, and was more transcendent beyond the sport.


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Re: The Goat Debate

#149

Post by ponchi101 »

meganfernandez wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:06 am ...
Same. If one of them ends up two or three ahead, it’s theirs. Some people will argue for Federer for the rest of my lifetime, though, and I can see why. He was the first, set the bar, and was more transcendent beyond the sport.


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Some people will argue about what he did for the sport. How popular he made it. By that token, Connors is a more important player than Sampras, as he really helped fuel the tennis boom of the 70's. Us oldies remember how Connors took tennis out of the country club and truly popularized it in the USA, and from there, participation around the world took off. Borg, in Europe, was his counterpart there, not only making the sport very popular but also giving Roland Garros a more important profile because he won it and also won WImbledon.
But if you go by the numbers, Roger now stands two behind Rafa, and has losing records against both other contenders. So, if you feel like this can be numerically figured out, he is not in a very favorable position right now.
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Re: The Goat Debate

#150

Post by Cuckoo4Coco »

We talk about the men all the time with the GOAT talk but what about the women? Is it a slam dunk for Serena or is Martina in the talk still? I never really got to see Martina play live because she retired the year I was born but I have seen videos of her. She was very dominant during her time.
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