Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

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JazzNU United States of America
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Re: Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

#3061

Post by JazzNU »

Fastbackss wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:23 am
I heard a podcast with Andy Roddick about this topic (in general not about Pegula specifically). He (as always) had some poignant thoughts on it. Here were a couple:

- coming from means takes some of the "worry" and allows for focus. There are plenty of examples of relatively indigent players making it, but the means provides ancillary support that gives a larger safety net. But he pushed back on the notion that should be discredited if coming from significant means.
- ultimately it's the "fight" of the player, regardless of means. He or she has to be singularly focused to push through, like the pain, deal with the solitude, etc.
- he also opined further on how many with means get burned out because they are pushed so hard by the parent and it has to be innate self-drive. They have to want it as well.

I personally find most defenses of Pegula's "means" to be offbase when judging what I'm talking about. Ernest Gulbis and Emma Navarro come from similar means as Pegula. Neither of their parents can provide them access to fitness and physio staffs of a professional sports team. Unless and until they do, I find comparisons of those with means to be insufficient to what Jessie has taken advantage of.

Something which, from what I can tell, might I add, she doesn't appear to talk about much anymore because I'm guessing it doesn't go over that well, because it hardly seems fair. It's like trying to find MAGA-esque comments and likes from certain tennis players, it's largely been scrubbed because it doesn't help their profile. But I remember her talking about it, remember the commentators on her matches on the Tennis Channel mentioning it more than once. She got out of her unending cycle of injuries that hampered her career for years and to her current health and fitness level by using the fitness and physio staffs of her parents' teams. Although I seem to remember it being the Sabres' staff she utilized more than the Bills.

I have been plenty vocal about the Fracking Princess and the real source of her family's money. I still can't stand her family and their team ownership is basically sportswashing. But I'm truly just stating a fact here that she once talked about. Having access to a crap ton of money and owning major league sports teams in the US and having access to their staff and facilities are truly apples and orange comparisons to me. I have personally seen what college and pro football teams' facilities consist of and who they have on their staffs. My mind is not going to be changed that all things being equal, this is all about "fight."
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Re: Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

#3062

Post by Deuce »

ti-amie wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:22 pm

Amanda@RowdyBug Replying to @josemorgado
So Moutet is in green and Andreev in white?

Heidiction @heidiction
Replying to
@RowdyBug and @josemorgado
Yes
ponchi101 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:30 pm Because he has turned out to be a low-ranked player, Moutet has fallen off the radar of "Bad Boys". But he has had several instances in which his conduct on court is less than palatable.
Yes, Moutet is an ornery character... quite similar to Fognini.
Love them or hate them, I'm glad they're in the game - to break up the monotony of homogenized players who all 'behave well'.
We need the yin and yang... we need contrast in life.
R.I.P. Amal...

“The opposite of courage is not cowardice - it’s conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow.”- Jim Hightower
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Re: Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

#3063

Post by Fastbackss »

There's a guy in one of my leagues who is a notorious "opportune" line-caller.

He consistently calls balls out (that are definitively in or close) - even ones on the other side of the court from him (we are playing doubles).

He and I have had some verbal altercations, the most recent of which was last season when I lost my mind as he called a double bounce on me on a ball that I easily got to.

At the start of this season he sought me out to see if "we were going to have a problem again."

That is the backstory to understand why I sent this clip to some in the league with a caption saying "when xXxX is calling lines"
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Re: Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

#3064

Post by JazzNU »

Fastbackss wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:02 am There's a guy in one of my leagues who is a notorious "opportune" line-caller.

He consistently calls balls out (that are definitively in or close) - even ones on the other side of the court from him (we are playing doubles).

He and I have had some verbal altercations, the most recent of which was last season when I lost my mind as he called a double bounce on me on a ball that I easily got to.

At the start of this season he sought me out to see if "we were going to have a problem again."

That is the backstory to understand why I sent this clip to some in the league with a caption saying "when xXxX is calling lines"

Why are you still playing against him? Feels like he should've been bounced from the league some time ago.

I would've told him tf off if he had the nerve to seek me out at the beginning of the season like I'm the problem.
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Re: Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

#3065

Post by ponchi101 »

Fairly good description of why I stopped playing tournaments. Some people are just like that, and I have enough stories about incidents that are similar. Fastest way to ruin a tennis day.
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Re: Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

#3066

Post by Deuce »

Yes, there are people in tennis who give themselves the benefit of any ball that's close to the line, rather than doing the proper thing and giving the opponent the benefit of any close ball.

But you guys ain't seen nothin' in terms of bad line calls until you play pickleball!

When I began playing pickleball 3 years ago, I could not believe the percentage of horrible line calls. It's like anything within 3 inches of the line - not 3 millimetres or 3 centimetres, but 3 INCHES - is called out.
Now, a pickleball ball doesn't compress like a tennis ball does when it bounces - so, where a tennis ball will 'spread out' a bit when hitting the court, a pickleball ball doesn't. So sometimes it is difficult to call a ball close to the line because the surface of the ball could hit the ground outside of the line while the part of the ball that is not in contact with the ground is over the line.

To lessen the confusion about this, pickleball changed the rule last year - the rule now states that the player must see space between the ball and the line in order to call the ball out. But it has changed nothing. I still very regularly see balls that are clearly inside the line being called out in pickleball. The difference in this aspect between tennis players and pickleball players is huge. Whereas I'd say maybe 10% of tennis players will give themselves the benefit of any ball hitting close to a line, I'd say that at least 60% of pickleball players do this.

As well, another difference between the etiquette of tennis vs. the etiquette of pickleball, is on net cords... As we all know, when we win a point on a net cord in tennis, it is proper to apologize, because we got lucky. In pickleball, however, a net cord winner is celebrated just like any outright great shot winner.
You can always tell who the tennis players are in pickleball, as we're the only ones who apologize on net cord winners!
R.I.P. Amal...

“The opposite of courage is not cowardice - it’s conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow.”- Jim Hightower
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Re: Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

#3067

Post by ashkor87 »

I once had a doubles partner like that..I had to intervene repeatedly to stop him cheating...he called the ball out at matchpoint, hit by our opponents..made such a scene when I called it in..the entire stands emptied to watch us fight! But I stood by my call, which cost us the match. The crowd supported me so he had to keep quiet in the end..never played with him as partner again..
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Re: Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

#3068

Post by Fastbackss »

ashkor87 wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:02 am I once had a doubles partner like that..I had to intervene repeatedly to stop him cheating...he called the ball out at matchpoint, hit by our opponents..made such a scene when I called it in..the entire stands emptied to watch us fight! But I stood by my call, which cost us the match. The crowd supported me so he had to keep quiet in the end..never played with him as partner again..
I was in a USTA league of a new (older) age bracket for the first time. The only team "near" me was an hour away but I joined. One of my first partners was like this. He called multiple in balls out. The other team was grumbling. Finally a serve to him on a critical point was clearly in and he called it out. I overruled him. He started yelling at me about "what are you doing" and I said "I can't continue to let you call lines like this." Needless to say I didn't get many more matches (and I said I wouldn't play with him again). Anecdote (amusing to me anyway ) - I looked him up later as the name was familiar - he was a rather high up executive.

Jazz - yeah - other people are more willing to put up with his crap. It's a "vintage" league. Been around for 35 years and he is one of the 10 or so that have been there over 20 of the years- so they aren't willing to boot him. I know they have talked to him (next they could talk about his foot faults as well, but whatever).

And for what it's worth when he asked if we'd have a problem I replied "depends on how you call the lines.". Mysteriously we don't get picked to play on the same court very often
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Re: Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

#3069

Post by ponchi101 »

I have said, many times, that if you really want to know a person, get him on a tennis court. This sport will undress you totally. Watch them play, and especially how they call lines. It will tell you what kind of person they really are.
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Re: Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

#3070

Post by Deuce »

I received this (below) via E mail just a couple of days ago from a pickleball association.
They are trying to change the unfortunate culture of line calling in pickleball - the points below are good and make sense (obviously taken from tennis)... but, having seen no change at all in the 4 years I've played, it would not surprise me if this problem takes a generation to solve.
The only point I disagree with is the one mentioning "Rule 6.D.5" that you should not question your opponent's call. If your opponent is not following the points of decency and etiquette mentioned below, of course they should be questioned!

  • If you are not absolutely positive that the ball is OUT… it is to be called IN.
  • If you think the ball is out… it is IN (Thinking something is not definitive - does not demonstrate certainty).
  • If you cannot immediately call the ball out… it is to be called IN.
  • If you see the ball land, but are not sure if it touched the line or not… it is to be called IN.
  • The team at whose end the ball hits has the responsibility for making the line call with the code of ethics in mind. I.e., “Players must strive for accuracy and operate under the principle that all questionable calls must be resolved in favour of the opposition.”

  • A Player cannot claim a replay because the ball was not seen or there was uncertainty.
  • If a player makes an initial line call, and then asks the opponents their opinion and they have clearly seen the ball “IN” or “OUT”, that call will stand. If they are unable to make a definitive call, the original line call stands.
  • Rule 6.D.5 clearly states that, “A player should not question an opponents call!” Calls on the opponents end of the court are their responsibility, and to question it is poor etiquette.

  • If at a tournament your opponents continually make poor Line Calls and there are no officials, you can approach the Tournament Director or the Officiating desk to request a Referee.

If you are in a position over the ball and looking down at it and the line, and there is an overlap where the ball hides a portion or all of the line below, this ball cannot be called out. Rationale – the Player cannot be certain that the ball has not made contact with the line… therefore it must be presumed “IN”.
The playing partner to the Player above may be in a better position to make the call if they are looking across the court or back toward the baseline. If this player can see the playing surface on the other side of the line, the ball can then be called “OUT” with a certainty that it did not make contact with the line.

Often the player’s head and eyes must move in the direction of the struck and landing ball. With this motion the eyes often cannot adjust quickly enough to see the true position of impact. The ball often appears to travel further than it does. This was found to be the case in a study of out calls made at Wimbledon, and why Line Judges are trained to have their head and eyes focused on the line prior to the ball arriving at the scene.

Other important aspects of Line Calling:

“OUT” calls should be promptly signalled by voice and/or hand signal. I.e., raising the hand in the air.
An “OUT” call made after the ball bounces is a Line Call. The ball is considered dead, and play shall stop.
If a Player, or their partner, calls a ball “OUT” prior to the ball bouncing, this is to be considered Player communication and NOT a Line Call, and play is to continue.
After completion of a rally, players may overrule a partner’s line call, an Officiating Team's line call, or an opponent’s “IN” call, to their own disadvantage.
R.I.P. Amal...

“The opposite of courage is not cowardice - it’s conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow.”- Jim Hightower
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Re: Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

#3071

Post by ponchi101 »

Good luck with that :thumbsup:
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Re: Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

#3072

Post by ti-amie »

“Do not grow old, no matter how long you live. Never cease to stand like curious children before the Great Mystery into which we were born.” Albert Einstein
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Re: Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

#3073

Post by ponchi101 »

:clap: :clap: :clap: Credit where credit is due.
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Re: Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

#3074

Post by ponchi101 »

I guess this site has to side with our friends, and declare open season on Pickle-ballers :D
Blame, threat and clash: the war between pickleball and tennis players is escalating – on and off the court

I found it funny.
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Re: Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

#3075

Post by Deuce »

ponchi101 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:47 pm I guess this site has to side with our friends, and declare open season on Pickle-ballers :D
Blame, threat and clash: the war between pickleball and tennis players is escalating – on and off the court

I found it funny.
Well... As a person who plays both, I will say that pickleball has no business being played on tennis courts. Fortunately, around here, we have dedicated courts for both - and so I've never seen any conflict.
I agree that some of the conflicts described in the article are pretty funny.

As for pickleball being a sport "primarily for the older population"... that's disputable. Yes, you'll see more retired people playing pickleball than playing tennis, per capita... but you're not going to see too many 65+ year old players playing at a high level.

As for pickleball being 'slow'... Yes, it is, overall, slower than today's tennis. But it's faster than the tennis of the 1980s and before (before the racquets grew larger).
And there are many points in higher level pickleball that require very quick reflexes. There are lots of touch and angles, as well, when played at a higher level.

"The ATP" in the video means 'Around The Post' - kind of ironic...

R.I.P. Amal...

“The opposite of courage is not cowardice - it’s conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow.”- Jim Hightower
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