Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

[Cuckoo4Coco]

It happened to all of us. And, on the flip side, you will be able to see a lot of players that will be the great ones of their era, and that we will not be there to enjoy.

Players like Noskova(17) and Sara Bejlek(16) of the Czech Republic along with Coco Gauff and the other young teens on the tour and the ones in the Juniors, I have a long time to really watch them grow and in some of their cases take over the game.

[Deuce]

If we could only talk about stuff when we knew the backstory... we'd have no posts at all here. I'm sure you don't know the backstory for every single comment you make too Two pages ago you were speculating on why a female chair umpire behaved the way she did... but I bet you don't know her backstory.

If we could only talk about stuff when we knew the backstory... we'd have no posts at all here. I'm sure you don't know the backstory for every single comment you make too Two pages ago you were speculating on why a female chair umpire behaved the way she did... but I bet you don't know her backstory.

Don’t get me started on WTA retirements.

Benefit of the doubt is usually the hill I die on. But in this case, it came from a tennis insider (who I trust) and there probably isn’t more to it than what we see. There could be, and I’m not condemning the guy, but we can use good judgment here. Most likely, it was a jerk move. Opinions can change as needed.

Give me a bloody break!
This Brooksby B.S. is nothing but pure gossip, worthy of 'Entertainment Tonight' or the National Enquirer.

It's amazing how tremendously eager people are to condemn/crucify someone based on so little knowledge - often based on one occurrence. I guess it makes people feel better about themselves when they step on someone else. It's bad form. And, as I said, these same people love to go around 'proudly' proclaiming how 'non-judgemental' they are. It's pitiful in my eyes.

I'm not saying that Brooksby is a saint. I have no idea what kind of person he is - and neither do any of you. And so I will not assess him, because I am not in a position to do so. I just hate seeing this widespread condemnation and juvenile 'piling on' - especially with someone as young as Brooksby.
Similar condemnation and 'piling on' occurred on this board with Holger Rune a couple of months ago - another kid that people concluded is a 'bad person'.
Incredible. As if none of you have ever done anything wrong or stupid in your youth!

As for my comments about the chair umpire, that situation played out entirely in plain view from beginning to end. And my comments were multi-dimensional - I did not universally condemn her. I mentioned that perhaps she was afraid to intervene between the two players, or maybe she was just trying really hard to keep from laughing at them. I did not blindly condemn her as people are ridiculously doing with Brooksby when they are in no knowledgeable position to do so.

[ptmcmahon]

Brooskby acting like a jerk happened in plain view too.

And don't say we can't say he acted like a jerk based on age. You've never let that stop you from letting your opinions be known about people you don't like either The difference is we (usually) don't say you are being juvenille for having opinions different than ours. You're just as opinionated as the rest of us.

If Bianca had done this you would have been rightfully saying the same things as us about her If you are free to criticize those you don't like, we can call Brooskby a jerk for acting like one.

[Deuce]

It's not a question of a mere difference of opinion. I see people piling onto a kid based solely on an action that endured literally for 2 or 3 seconds, and which none of those condemning him know the origin of.
I know enough about human psychology to know why people pile on like this. It's an ugly trait.

You don't know if Brooksby acted like a jerk - because you have no idea WHY he did what he did.
THAT'S my point.
Maybe it was a 'jerk move'... or maybe there was a justifiable reason behind it. None of us know.

And I didn't say that people are not free to condemn Brooksby. What I'm saying is that if people are going to do that, I'm going to call them out for what I see as unfair and unjust condemnation of a person's character.
Judging an action for which one does not know the origin is really no different than judging someone's character based on nationality or skin colour. "Oh, he must be a bad person because he did that" when you have no idea WHY he did that is not much different from "Oh, he must be a bad person because he's (insert nationality or skin colour here)".
Maybe they are bad people - and maybe not. Before deciding, one should know more than just one action the person performed, or one's nationality, etc.

Andreescu's arrogance is something obvious. And it wasn't a one-time thing. Repeatedly saying things like "This is only the beginning", asking the crowd for more applause, making fun of winning a set 6-0 with a terrible bagel joke, etc., etc. There are many obvious examples of her arrogance. There's no hidden backstory possible there. But I've also said that I hope she grows out of that and learns some genuine humility.

[Cuckoo4Coco]

I never said that I knew what Brooksby was like as a person. All I am commenting on is his action on the court the other night in the match against Tiafoe. Apparently Frances Tiafoe who I expect knows Jenson Brooksby a lot better than we all know him was not very pleased with his behavior, so that kind of suggests to me that he is not well liked on the tour.

How many of us would say Nick Kyrgios goes through quite a few antics on the court and not a single one of us knows Nick as a person, but I have seen almost everyone on here say he has issues going on when honestly we have no clue if he does or doesn't. Sure he has the legal problems and that would suggest he has problems going on, but do we know him. No we don't.

So in some ways Deuce is correct in his statement, but with Brooksby his actions the other night were out in plain view and there is completely nothing wrong with verbalizing your disfavor of that. The same goes with verbalizing your disfavor in Nick Kyrgios screaming "Your Done" in a match to Brandon Nakashima.

[Deuce]

Sigh...

The examples of Kyrgios behaving like a jackass number in the dozens, if not the hundreds, and over the course of several years. Therefore, one can pretty accurately assess his character (and character flaws). Plus, he's not a kid anymore.

With Brooksby, people are ready to condemn his character after ONE action which endured a few seconds, and for which no-one condemning him knows the origin. And he's 21.
I think the difference between this and any assessment of Kyrgios is more than obvious.

As for saying that Brooksby is not well liked on the tour based on Tiafoe not liking Brooksby's behaviour on court the other night - that's the very definition of an unfair assessment.

[Cuckoo4Coco]

Sigh...

The examples of Kyrgios behaving like a jackass number in the dozens, if not the hundreds, and over the course of several years. Therefore, one can pretty accurately assess his character (and character flaws). Plus, he's not a kid anymore.

With Brooksby, people are ready to condemn his character after ONE action which endured a few seconds, and for which no-one condemning him knows the origin. And he's 21.
I think the difference between this and any assessment of Kyrgios is more than obvious.

As for saying that Brooksby is not well liked on the tour based on Tiafoe not liking Brooksby's behaviour on court the other night - that's the very definition of an unfair assessment.

No... That is not what I am basing the assessment on. There are several times that tennis commentating teams have brought up the fact that the young and upcoming group of American Male players all get along and Jenson Brooksby is the outsider of that group. So it is not based on just the Tiafoe match.

You can also look at it this way between Kyrgios and Brooksby that Nick has been on the tour much longer and has many more opportunities to act like an jackass than just the small percentage of time on the tour that Brooksby has been on the tour.

Everyone has players they choose to cheer for and choose to root against for one reason or another. You have them and I have them. You obviously love Leylah and Bianca is someone that you do not see much of. That is fine. I love Coco Gauff and don't like Nick Kyrgios. I also really like Frances Tiafoe so it irked me even more what Jenson did because it was involving the Tiafoe match.

You even said it, anyone can choose to cheer or B---- & moan about any player they want. That is what being a fan of tennis is all about. Do you really think Jenson Brooksby cares at all what we think or what anyone thinks about him or what he did the other day?

[Deuce]

So you admit an obvious bias in your condemnation of Brooksby. Nice.

Even if Brooksby is the outsider within the current group of Americans - why do you conclude that means that he's bad or disliked? Maybe he's shy. Maybe he's more intelligent than the rest of them. Maybe he's not as intelligent as the rest of them. There are dozens of possible reasons for him being an outsider - IF that is even true. Why do you assume the worst?
That's blatantly unfair.

Condemning a person's CHARACTER is one of the most serious things a person can do. Therefore, one should be very careful when doing this - i.e. make sure you know what you're talking about and that your assessment - or judgement - is accurate, and based on relevant fact, not on hearsay or gossip or rumours or bias, etc.

[ashkor87]

Yes, Mandlikova is the one to learn the volley from...simple, clean, effective and elegant...
That is how I learned the game ..never had a coach in my life, never even went to an academy..just saw action pictures in books and tried to emulate them..in a way, I had the best coaches! I learned the serve from Gonzales, forehand from Gimeno, backhand from rosewall and volley from Sedgman!

[Cuckoo4Coco]

So you admit an obvious bias in your condemnation of Brooksby. Nice.

Even if Brooksby is the outsider within the current group of Americans - why do you conclude that means that he's bad or disliked? Maybe he's shy. Maybe he's more intelligent than the rest of them. Maybe he's not as intelligent as the rest of them. There are dozens of possible reasons for him being an outsider - IF that is even true. Why do you assume the worst?
That's blatantly unfair.

Condemning a person's CHARACTER is one of the most serious things a person can do. Therefore, one should be very careful when doing this - i.e. make sure you know what you're talking about and that your assessment - or judgement - is accurate, and based on relevant fact, not on hearsay or gossip or rumours or bias, etc.

Maybe it is because the people that are around him and the tennis commentators have stated he is a bit of an agitator. That is why I conclude that he is like that? Why may I ask do you consider him as maybe being shy? You certainly don't know that to be the case.

I admitted that I favored Frances Tiafoe in the match and he is one of my favorite players on the tour. I also admitted that I was irked by what Brooksby did at the end of that match. That doesn't match me overall biased about him because like you said we don't know these players. I just know what he did on that court at that moment made him look like a total jackass and I am not going to dismiss it. I would do the same for any player and yes even for Coco Gauff if she acted that way. So no there is no bias towards any players. There are just behaviors by players that happen on the court that make them look like jackasses that I do not like and I just don't push them to the wayside and dismiss them no matter if it is their first time or 100th time.

This is a game I love and admire and I don't want to see any of that sort of foolish behavior or disrespect from any player no matter who it is.

[Deuce]

You stated above that you were even more upset because Brooksby did whatever he did vs. one of your favourite players. So you admitted that you saw what Brooksby did with a biased perspective - because it was against Tiafoe, who you like.

I never indicated that I think Brooksby is shy. As I've stated countless times in this thread, I don't know who Brooksby is. I don't know if he's a jerk or a decent bloke. Neither do any of you. The difference is that because I don't know him, I am not judging his character based on one action, the origin of which I don't know, while the rest of you ARE judging his character based on one action that you don't know the origin of. And in my book, that is both wrong and blatantly unfair - for the reasons I've stated numerous times.
(I mentioned that he may be shy, or more intelligent, or less intelligent than the rest of the American players only as examples of the possible reasons that he has been - apparently - referred to as 'an outsider' - my point being that you should not conclude that his character is bad simply because he's an outsider - if that's even true -, or based on an action for which you don't know the origin.)

Again - judging a person's character is a very serious matter. It doesn't matter squat if Brooksby doesn't read this forum. Condemning a person and (PRE)judging his character as being 'bad', and people piling on, can do significant damage to a person's reputation among the public.
And that's simply not right.

[Cuckoo4Coco]

You stated above that you were even more upset because Brooksby did whatever he did vs. one of your favourite players. So you admitted that you saw what Brooksby did with a biased perspective - because it was against Tiafoe, who you like.

I never indicated that I think Brooksby is shy. As I've stated countless times in this thread, I don't know who Brooksby is. I don't know if he's a jerk or a decent bloke. Neither do any of you. The difference is that because I don't know him, I am not judging his character based on one action, the origin of which I don't know, while the rest of you ARE judging his character based on one action that you don't know the origin of. And in my book, that is both wrong and blatantly unfair - for the reasons I've stated numerous times.
(I mentioned that he may be shy, or more intelligent, or less intelligent than the rest of the American players only as examples of the possible reasons that he has been - apparently - referred to as 'an outsider' - my point being that you should not conclude that his character is bad simply because he's an outsider - if that's even true -, or based on an action for which you don't know the origin.)

Yes because of the incident and action that Brooksby created. Not Brooksby as an individual, because as you said and as I stated and agreed with you in the first response to your post I don't know Jenson Brooksby at all. I agree with you 100% about that. All I am try to say is what he did on the court at that very moment made him look like a complete jackass and those type of incidents, I don't dismiss because I for one love the game of tennis and don't feel there is a place for that sort of showmanship or disrespect to other players on the court. It is the same thing when I called out Nick Kyrgios at Wimbledon for shouting out at Brandon Nakashima "You're Done" when he was about to win the match. Total disrespect and no need for that in the game of tennis in my opinion. I will call out that sort of thing every time a player does something like that no matter who the player is.

[Deuce]

But, again - you don't know what precipitated the Brooksby action when he beat Tiafoe.
Maybe it was him ridiculing Tiafoe's 'celebrations'.
Maybe Tiafoe did something bad or stupid to upset and/or disrespect Brooksby at some point before or during the match, and Brooksby 'retaliated' for that by mocking Tiafoe's 'celebration'.
Maybe Tiafoe stole Brooksby's lunch earlier in the day...

The fact is, without knowing WHY Brooksby did that, no-one should condemn his character - or even the action.
What I saw was people very eagerly condemning him and piling on, as if it's some sort of game. And I don't like that.

Knowledge is the most important ingredient in any assessment. Without knowledge of facts, any assessment - or judgement - is completely misplaced and unfair.

[ponchi101]

Yes, Mandlikova is the one to learn the volley from...simple, clean, effective and elegant...
That is how I learned the game ..never had a coach in my life, never even went to an academy..just saw action pictures in books and tried to emulate them..in a way, I had the best coaches! I learned the serve from Gonzales, forehand from Gimeno, backhand from rosewall and volley from Sedgman!

I only read about Gonzalez. Never saw him play.
But all the news and comments I read, always, were that he was simply the best player EVER. And that was said from people like Kramer and Laver.
And if on top, you claim you learned your BH from Rosewall, I would love to play a set with you. The most solid slice ever. That one there is no doubt.

[ashkor87]

Doesn't mean I can hit like him!