World News Random, Random

[ti-amie]

And the rest of the Commonwealth, well most of it?

[ti-amie]

Irish Twitter is still out of control.

[ponchi101]

Wow. This goes deep.

[Suliso]

Irish twitter is being stupid...

[JazzNU]

When Putin dies, will anyone call those celebrating stupid or out of control? Did anyone do that when Saddam Hussein, Fidel Castro, or Hugo Chavez died? The Queen had the mightiest of mighty PR machines behind her that has led to a very positive view of her in many parts of the world and glossed over the many, many, many dark, troubling, and damaging things she was part of, permitted, or willfully ignored. Seems like a very good time to read and learn to understand the reactions that run counter to what you thought they'd be. It should be crystal clear by the reactions that the rosy picture that has been painted of the Queen's reign was nowhere close to the full story.

[Suliso]

For how long are we going to grind historical axes? Unlike those other gentlmen the Queen was only a symbol. UK is long since not an enemy of Ireland. So I reserve my right to call them out for not being gracious when the lady died. Of course you are free to think otherwise.

[ti-amie]

For how long are we going to grind historical axes? Unlike those other gentlmen the Queen was only a symbol. UK is long since not an enemy of Ireland. So I reserve my right to call them out for not being gracious when the lady died. Of course you are free to think otherwise.

You might want to read up on what England is now trying to do to Northern Ireland regarding the EU. NI right now has no government because Boris started and Truss may finish shredding the NI Protocols that were part of Brexit.

[ponchi101]

Isn't that a modern political problem, for which the Queen bears no responsibility? Northern Ireland is part of the UK, while Ireland is not; the entire Brexit mess is a modern political issue, but nobody is waging a war or sending armies anymore across those borders, to subdue the other side.
The British monarchy stopped being an actionable leadership of the UK a long time ago; as Suliso says, this woman was very little more than a symbol.
Personally, I find the entire idea of a monarchy, British or otherwise, ridiculous. But the idea of the Brits being evil is antiquated. They did nothing more or less than what empires of yore did whenever they encountered and conquered other people. It was the way of the world, until historically recently.

[Suliso]

Russians still think that way... Maybe Chinese too.

[ti-amie]

Excerpts from the article:

Anne Marie Quilligan, a social care worker from Ireland’s Limerick region, said on Thursday that the mixed reactions from Irish and other people whose nations suffered under the British Empire were “collective trauma."

“Unresolved trauma can become generational," she wrote on Twitter. “Colonisation is a trauma.”

Hannah Wanebo, an Irish American lawyer based in Dallas, wrote on Twitter that her Irish grandmother hated England so much that she would only travel home on flights that did not touch down on English soil.

“I’m shocked by how many people think the Potato Famine was due to crop failure and don’t know the English EXPORTED food from Ireland to England during that time - enough food to feed all the Irish who died,” Wanebo wrote, referring to the 19th-century famine in Ireland that resulted in the deaths of as many as a million Irish people and the emigration of another 2 to 3 million escaping starvation.

Elizabeth wasn’t queen during the Irish famine. But she reigned during the Troubles in Northern Ireland — and when the two sides made peace with the Good Friday Agreement in 1998.

In 2011, she made history as the first monarch to travel to Ireland since its independence. Elizabeth traveled the country and addressed the two nations’ difficult, shared past head-on.

“To all those who have suffered as a consequence of our troubled past, I extend my sincere thoughts and deep sympathy,” she said in a speech at Dublin Castle. "With the benefit of historical hindsight, we can all see things which we would wish had been done differently or not at all.”

In 2012, the queen shook hands with Martin McGuinness, a former commander of the Irish Republican Army who had become deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland. The IRA, a paramilitary group that used violent tactics in its pursuit of Irish reunification, had killed the queen’s cousin in 1979.

[JazzNU]

Isn't that a modern political problem, for which the Queen bears no responsibility? Northern Ireland is part of the UK, while Ireland is not; the entire Brexit mess is a modern political issue, but nobody is waging a war or sending armies anymore across those borders, to subdue the other side.
The British monarchy stopped being an actionable leadership of the UK a long time ago; as Suliso says, this woman was very little more than a symbol.
Personally, I find the entire idea of a monarchy, British or otherwise, ridiculous. But the idea of the Brits being evil is antiquated. They did nothing more or less than what empires of yore did whenever they encountered and conquered other people. It was the way of the world, until historically recently.

I think how you view them and the monarchy isn't as benign as how others view it. And you're saying it's long past, but people are sharing stories of how the monarchy, and Queen Elizabeth's, actions and inactions affected their parents and grandparents. I think that's part of the problem, too many are acting like every negative thing the monarchy had a hand in in ancient history. Apartheid, for instance, is far from ancient history. Neither are many conflicts that led countries to their independence from the British Empire.

Also, there's a call for a return of things the colonizers stole from other countries, extremely rare jewels chief among them from what I can tell, but also artifacts and other items of significance. Holding on to them and not returning them and instead making them part of the British Crown Jewels is part of why the pain of their actions linger.

There is also no reason whatsoever to diminish and gloss over what empires used to do. And based on the dismissive tone, I stand by what I said, sounds like you guys could learn a bit of history here because it's not ancient the way you're making it out to be nor was she just some powerless symbol.

[ponchi101]

We could learn a bit of history? How about you?
Imagine MY life if Europeans had not arrived to the Americas. Imagine two conditions: I would be born in the same geographical location, and Europeans, until now, would not have made contact.
I could be looking forward to a life expectancy of about 30 years (I would be, statistically, dead by now). I would have spent such life in illiteracy and innumeracy, because none of the cultures of the Americas had developed either system in the 1500's. I would not know of sanitation, modern medicine and my life would have been, most likely, short and brutish, because the Europeans took from us maize, and tomatoes and gold, but gave us CIVILIZATION. Only the meso-american tribes had developed a little technology, mostly in calendar prediction, because although they had "discovered" the wheel, they had not made the jump to discover the axle, which is the real important component.
I live surrounded by that mentality: NOTHING is ever our fault. All of our ills are because of the bloody Europeans and, modernly, the Americans. We never look at our faults, at our cultural systems. No, it was something that was "done" to us 500 years ago, 200 years ago. As Suliso posted in TAT1.0: Venezuela was the 20th largest economy in the world in the 1970's, when we still had all the American/European oil companies managing our oil (we were very involved but those were private companies, not national entities). All that is gone, after we nationalized our industry. Sure, blame it on the Americans (the cousins of the Empire).
Pillaging. I remember the Museum of History in Palmyra, Siria. A lot of beautiful pieces that were curated by, yes, the Brits, and many that had been returned in precisely the same fashion that is now "demanded". A gorgeous little location (it was not that big). Which was then destroyed by ISIS when that war started, and all those pieces were destroyed. Better to have kept in the British Museum of Natural History; they would still exist.
Us learn some history? How about if you learn a bit about the large cities of the East? Shanghai, a british enclave which was transitioned to China. No need to bring up Hong Kong which, you know, was better off under British rule (at least, it was democratic). New Delhi and Dubai were also developed by the Empires (New Delhi the modern part, as the city also covers Old Delhi) and are dominant cities in their regions.
Did the Brits commit atrocities? That is precisely what we are saying: ALL empires committed atrocities; that was the way that the world worked until recently. The Russians committed atrocities, the Chinese committed atrocities, the Japanese and on and on. Pillaging, conquering, raping, stealing, that was the way. Modern society has changed that, but being stuck in the past is of no use. I do not see the Italians demanding the return of the Mona Lisa, nor the Spanish demanding the return of pieces from the USA (in plenty of museums). The pieces were taken and that was it.
But no. Let's remain stuck in the past. A very constructive sport, here in the Americas. Because all of our countries (and I don't mean the USA, which sprung from the Brits but is modern) are going to be way better off if we get a diamond back, as opposed to getting our stuff together.

[ti-amie]

The idea of Brexit is based on the British colonial past when "the sun never set on the British empire" so saying that the past is the past and people should move on is not really being fair.

[ti-amie]

No one...

[JazzNU]

I know plenty of history @ponchi, including the majority of what you said as if that would be somehow new information. I don't agree with a good deal of how you think your world would be, but that's besides the point.

You're looking at this one way, they are looking at this in many other ways. But it doesn't seem as if it could hurt for anyone taking exception to their reactions and telling them to get over it and move on to learn about why they are angry. I've read plenty of what you're written to learn about your view of Venezuela and I did that because you have a personal stake in it and I learned more about your home country and what occurred there by doing so. There are a lot, and by that I mean a ton of people sharing stories all over social media about how and why someone in their family died, starved, or had to flee their country. Given the way things are being glossed over by you and @suliso, yes, I think reading some personal accounts, such as the ones you write yourself about Venezuela might be eye opening.