World News Random, Random

[JazzNU]

And this is a general PSA to everyone here. I would suggest you never in life tell a black person that colonization and their atrocities, which include slavery, were the way of the world and to just get over it. I have never in my life heard a single person tell someone Jewish to get over the Holocaust. I wish the same consideration could be extended to black people, but it never seems to be.

[ponchi101]

Nobody is glossing things over. The history of all the Empires that stemmed from Europe and their behavior in Africa and the Americas is well documented and without dispute.
My point is what I tell people here: It happened. 200 years ago. 500 years ago. Now, grow up and realize that the problems we have here and now are OUR OWN fault. It is not something done by the Compañia Guipuiscuana (the Spanish version of the East India Company) 350-250 years ago. Our corruption, our impossibility to have proper social safety nets, our local internal disasters are our responsibility.
So coming down and rejoicing on the death of an inconsequential grandmother is rather silly. It will not help any of those Africa/Caribbean/S. American nations one bit. Much better to put that effort on fixing our issues.
Ps. You know that I have said it before. Everything I write about Venezuela has to be read with the understanding that I am biased against the country. Not just the current government, the culture of the country.

[Suliso]

And this is a general PSA to everyone here. I would suggest you never in life tell a black person that colonization and their atrocities, which include slavery, were the way of the world and to just get over it. I have never in my life heard a single person tell someone Jewish to get over the Holocaust. I wish the same consideration could be extended to black people, but it never seems to be.

Me neither but I also don't recall Jewish people celebrating the death of prominent Germans now. That would be just as unseemly. After all that was the point of my original remark. Not a call to forget.

In Venezuela everything is Spanish and American fault. In Latvia it's all Russian fault. I think the "effect" is less strong than in Latin America so the country is somewhat succesfull. Also we have a lot more reason to be worried about Russia now for obvious reasons.

I only write about cultures I know well, but I suspect many others should look a bit at themselves and think "is there some problem with us?".

[Suliso]

@ponchi: you say if Spanish hadn't come you would be this or that. However, you're probably 50% or more of Spanish descent yourself. So you could as easily say you'd be a poor farmer somewhere in Galicia instead.

[ponchi101]

Of course. That would be a hypothetical scenario: not only I would also be born in the same geographical location, contact between the Americas and Europe would still not be established. Which would have been completely impossible.
Although I am Venezuelan to the core (I have no relatives that are not Venezuelan, up to all the generations that I know), genetically I would probably be of European stock. Which is another concept that I disagree with, but that is another conversation.
I am 100% Venezuelan. Regardless of how I feel about that (which is, I don't care one way or another).

[ti-amie]

[ponchi101]

It became an invasive species in the Caribbean. Bonaire, a divers' paradise, and where it was forbidden to bring in spearguns to the island, changed the ruling as long as you spearfish ONLY lion fish.
It is actually very good, but you have to be careful with the main spine. Poisonous like hell.

[JazzNU]

Nobody is glossing things over. The history of all the Empires that stemmed from Europe and their behavior in Africa and the Americas is well documented and without dispute.
My point is what I tell people here: It happened. 200 years ago. 500 years ago. Now, grow up and realize that the problems we have here and now are OUR OWN fault. It is not something done by the Compañia Guipuiscuana (the Spanish version of the East India Company) 350-250 years ago. Our corruption, our impossibility to have proper social safety nets, our local internal disasters are our responsibility.
So coming down and rejoicing on the death of an inconsequential grandmother is rather silly. It will not help any of those Africa/Caribbean/S. American nations one bit. Much better to put that effort on fixing our issues.

This is...quite interesting. Good to know how someone really feels I guess. But no one should be surprised if I decide I have to take yet another long break from this forum.

[JazzNU]

Cloud of colonialism hangs over Queen Elizabeth's legacy in Africa

By Stephanie Busari, CNN

Lagos, Nigeria (CNN)The death of Queen Elizabeth II has prompted an outpouring of reflection and reaction online. But not all was grief -- some young Africans instead are sharing images and stories of their own elders, who endured a brutal period of British colonial history during the Queen's long reign.

"I cannot mourn," one wrote on Twitter, posting an image of what she said was her grandmother's "movement pass" -- a colonial document which prevented free travel for Kenyans under British rule in the east African country.

Another wrote that her grandmother "used to narrate to us how they were beaten & how their husbands were taken away from them & left to look after their kids," during colonial times. "May we never forget them. They are our heroes," she added.

Their refusal to mourn highlights the complexity of the legacy of the Queen, who despite widespread popularity was also seen as a symbol of oppression in parts of the world where the British Empire once extended.



Queen Elizabeth II inspects men of the newly-renamed Queen's Own Nigeria Regiment, Royal West African Frontier Force, at Kaduna Airport, Nigeria, during her Commonwealth Tour, on February 2, 1956.


Kenya, which had been under British rule since 1895, was named an official colony in 1920 and remained that way until it won independence in 1963. Among the worst atrocities under British rule occurred during the Mau Mau uprising, which started in 1952 -- the year Queen Elizabeth took the throne.

The colonial administration at the time carried out extreme acts of torture, including castration and sexual assault, in detainment camps where as many as 150,000 Kenyans were held. Elderly Kenyans who sued for compensation in 2011 were ultimately awarded £19.9 million by a British court, to be split between more than 5,000 claimants.

The UK Foreign Secretary at the time, William Hague, said: "The British Government recognises that Kenyans were subject to torture and other forms of ill treatment at the hands of the colonial administration. The British government sincerely regrets that these abuses took place, and that they marred Kenya's progress towards independence."

Africa's memory of the Queen cannot be separated from that colonial past, professor of communication Farooq Kperogi at Kennesaw State University told CNN.

"The Queen's legacy started in colonialism and is still wrapped in it. It used to be said that the sun did not set over the British empire. No amount of compassion or sympathy that her death has generated can wipe that away," he told CNN.



Queen Elizabeth II on her way to the Kumasi Durbah with Kwame Nkrumah, President of Ghana, during her tour of Ghana, November 1961.


'Tragic period'

While many African leaders have mourned her passing -- including Nigeria's President Muhammadu Buhari, who described her reign as "unique and wonderful" -- other prominent voices in regional politics have not.

In South Africa, one opposition party, the Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF), was unequivocal. "We do not mourn the death of Elizabeth, because to us her death is a reminder of a very tragic period in this country and Africa's history," the EFF said in a statement.

"Our interaction with Britain has been one of pain, ... death and dispossession, and of the dehumanisation of the African people," it added.




Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip wave to a crowd of schoolchildren at a rally held at a racecourse in Ibadan, Nigeria, February 15, 1956.


Others recalled Britain's role in the Nigerian civil war, where arms were secretly supplied to the government for use against Biafrans who wanted to form a breakaway republic. Between 1 million and 3 million people died in that war. British musician John Lennon returned his MBE, an honorary title, to the Queen in protest over Britain's role in the war.

Still, many on the continent remember the Queen as a stabilizing force who brought about positive change during her reign.

Ayodele Modupe Obayelu from Nigeria told CNN: "Her reign saw the end of the British Empire and the African countries ... became a Republic. She doesn't really deserve any award or standing ovation for it, but it was a step in the right direction."

And Ovation magazine publisher Dele Momodu was full of praise, recounting meeting her in 2003 in Abuja while covering her visit to Nigeria. He added that he had fled Nigeria for the UK in 1995, during the dictator Sani Abacha's regime.

"I told her I was a refugee and now the publisher of a magazine. She told me 'congratulations,' and moved on to the other people on the line. I salute her. She worked to the very end and was never tired of working for her country. She did her best for her country and that is a lesson in leadership," he told CNN.

Momodu believes that the Queen did try to "atone" for the brutality of the British Empire. "She came to Nigeria during our independence and some of the artifacts were returned under her reign. That is why the Commonwealth continues to thrive. I feel very sad that the world has lost a great human being."

Adekunbi Rowland, also from Nigeria, said: "The Queen's passing represents the end of an era. As a woman, I'm intrigued by her story. This young woman had an unprecedented accession to the throne, and with much grace and dignity did everything in her power to protect the country and Commonwealth she loved no matter what it took."


Commonwealth Queen


The Queen once declared, "I think I have seen more of Africa than almost anybody."
She made her first official overseas visit to South Africa in 1947, as a princess and would go on to visit more than 120 countries during her reign, many of them on the continent.


Elizabeth, then a princess, and Prince Philip step from their plane in Nairobi, Kenya, on the first stage of their Commonwealth tour in 1952.


It was while visiting Kenya in 1952 that she learned that she had become Queen. Her father George passed away while she was there with Prince Phillip and she immediately ascended the throne.

As colonialism later crumbled and gave way to independence and self-rule in what had been British overseas territories, the former colonies became part of a Commonwealth group of nations with the Queen at its head and she worked tirelessly to keep the group together over the years.

She forged strong bonds with African leaders, including Nelson Mandela, whom she visited twice in South Africa, and Kwame Nkrumah, with whom she was famously pictured dancing during her visit to Ghana in 1961.

However, there is now a growing clamor for independence and accountability over Britain's past crimes such as slavery. In November 2021, Barbados removed the Queen as its head of state, 55 years after it declared independence from Britain, and other Caribbean countries, such as Jamaica, have indicated they intend to do the same.

Prince William and his wife, Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge, visited Jamaica in March but they faced protests and calls for reparations during the trip. There were also calls for a formal apology for the royal family's links to slavery.

"During her 70 years on the throne, your grandmother has done nothing to redress and atone for the suffering of our ancestors that took place during her reign and/or during the entire period of British trafficking of Africans, enslavement, indentureship and colonization," wrote members of a protest group, the Advocates Network Jamaica.

In June, Prince Charles became the first UK royal to visit Rwanda, where he was representing the Queen at the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting.

Following his mother's death, he now heads the Commonwealth, and will embark on a new relationship with its members, about a third of which are in Africa.

Some are asking whether he will be as effective in building the organization as his mother, and above all, how relevant it still is, given its roots in Empire.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/10/africa/c ... index.html

[ti-amie]

Even "The Crown" stepped lightly when retelling the story of the late Queen Elizabeth's visits to Kenya and Jamaica. They did not treat it as a visit full of groveling by the people who were colonized but as a delicate balancing act between the then Princess and the people she was visiting.

It's because the European based Irish went batsh*t crazy on social media and were joined by people from the Caribbean and India in saying "we're not playing along anymore" that MSM in the West is talking about the realities of the "Potato Famine" in Ireland, the famine in Bengal, and the under development of English speaking island nations of the Caribbean. If these things are not talked about and the anger that lies just below the surface of the smiling people in so many pictures from that time when will they ever be discussed. One of the most widely circulated pictures was that of Cillian Murphy meeting Prince Harry. It says all you need to know about why this is happening now.

Sorry for the poor quality. I couldn't find a better one.

[Suliso]

Nobody is glossing things over. The history of all the Empires that stemmed from Europe and their behavior in Africa and the Americas is well documented and without dispute.
My point is what I tell people here: It happened. 200 years ago. 500 years ago. Now, grow up and realize that the problems we have here and now are OUR OWN fault. It is not something done by the Compañia Guipuiscuana (the Spanish version of the East India Company) 350-250 years ago. Our corruption, our impossibility to have proper social safety nets, our local internal disasters are our responsibility.
So coming down and rejoicing on the death of an inconsequential grandmother is rather silly. It will not help any of those Africa/Caribbean/S. American nations one bit. Much better to put that effort on fixing our issues.

This is...quite interesting. Good to know how someone really feels I guess. But no one should be surprised if I decide I have to take yet another long break from this forum.

He's talking about his own people, though. I'll assume generously that he knows the culture there better than me, you or anyone else on this forum.

[skatingfan]

Even "The Crown" stepped lightly when retelling the story of the late Queen Elizabeth's visits to Kenya and Jamaica. They did not treat it as a visit full of groveling by the people who were colonized but as a delicate balancing act between the then Princess and the people she was visiting.

Rewatching the first season of 'The Crown' this weekend the speeches given by Queen Elizabeth, and Princess Margaret in Kenya, and Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) respectively demonstrate the colonial appalling attitude towards the indigenous population at the time.

[ti-amie]

Queen’s funeral: Joe Biden caught officials off guard with plan to attend

Alistair Dawber, Washington | Richard Lloyd Parry, Asia Editor | Didi Tang, Beijing | Bernard Lagan, Sydney
Monday September 12 2022, 10.20am BST, The Times


Jill and Joe Biden first met the Queen in 1982 and last spent time with her during a state visit to the UK last year
TOLGA AKMEN/AFP/GETTY IMAGES

President Biden caught the White House off guard when he told reporters he planned to travel to London for the Queen’s funeral.

Past presidents have not attended the last two state funerals in Britain — for George VI in 1952, and Winston Churchill in 1965 — but Biden will be among the scores of heads of state and government to arrive in the capital before the service next Monday.

However, there are likely to be some notable absences. President Xi, who will be in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan this week, has not said whether he will come, although insiders suggest this is unlikely. Xi has not left China since the pandemic began.

In central Asia, Xi will meet President Putin who, like the Chinese leader, has issued a statement expressing his sadness at the Queen’s death.

Instead, it is possible that Wang Qishan, the vice-president and a close ally of Xi, might attend the funeral on his behalf. Wang, 74, visited the British embassy in Beijing today, where he signed the condolence book. He praised the queen as “the promoter and contributor” to the development of China-UK relations.

The leaders of most Commonwealth countries are expected to attend the funeral at Westminster Abbey, including Jacinda Ardern, the prime minister of New Zealand — a journey that will take almost 24 hours — and her Australian counterpart, Anthony Albanese. Justin Trudeau, the Canadian prime minister, has also confirmed he will attend.

Australia and New Zealand are engaging in soft diplomacy to ferry Pacific leaders to London for the funeral. Albanese said arrangements were being finalised between the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) and Pacific nations so that leaders could fly together to the UK.

“In some cases, it will require Australia to go to their countries in order to pick people up if that’s available. We are discussing at heads of government level and also the governor-general level of support,” Albanese said. “We want to make sure that no nation in our region, in the Pacific, as part of the Pacific family, is unable to attend the memorial service for Queen Elizabeth because of logistical concerns.”

It is uncertain whether Manasseh Sogavare, the prime minister of the Solomon Islands, will take up the invitation. He accused the Albanese government last week of “foreign interference” after Australia offered to help fund the country’s elections, which have since been delayed.

Albanese is expected to depart on Thursday evening for the funeral aboard a RAAF Airbus A330. Ardern will take an Air New Zealand flight to London.

European royal families are expected to be present, including King Felipe of Spain and his wife, Queen Letizia.

Emperor Naruhito will travel to London, a rare gesture for the Japanese monarch who does not usually attend funerals. The only other time it has happened was when Naruhito’s father, the now retired Emperor Akihito, attended the funeral of King Baudouin of Belgium in 1993.

But the close relationship with the British royal family is important to the imperial court, which had its own three days of mourning in the Queen’s honour. In 1953, aged only 19, Akihito attended the Queen’s coronation as crown prince. He visited as emperor in 1998, and attended the Diamond Jubilee celebrations in 2012.

Both Naruhito and Empress Michiko were educated at Oxford. She continues to suffer from a stress-related condition which has long limited her public appearances, and it is not clear whether she will accompany the emperor.

President Yoon of South Korea will attend the funeral on his way to planned visits to the United States and Canada.

President Steinmeier of Germany will also be there, his office said today. Ursula von der Leyen, the president of the European Commission, who has paid tribute to the Queen as “a legend”, will also be present.

International guests are said to have been asked to travel on commercial flights and forbidden to use helicopters or cars to reach the funeral. They are to arrive together on a bus from a site in west London, Politico said, citing official documents.

Westminster Abbey is expected to be so full that only one representative from each country can attend, although they can be joined by a partner.

Questions have been asked in the US over whether Donald Trump will be invited but British sources have scotched the idea that he could accompany the US delegation and said there would not be space for Biden’s predecessors. Dwight Eisenhower, then the former president, attended Churchill’s funeral a private capacity.

A reception for overseas leaders will take place at Buckingham Place on the eve of the service, but no meetings will be allowed because of the strain on security teams, according to the Foreign Office guidance.

The funeral will be an opportunity for the King and the prime minister to meet world leaders and, in Charles’s case, renew acquaintances.

President Macron is likely to be among the other heads of state, including President Erdogan of Turkey, who will be in London. President Bolsonaro, the right-wing leader of Brazil who is campaigning for re-election in a vote next month, has accepted an invitation to attend, the country’s foreign ministry said.

It is not thought that President Zelensky of Ukraine, who has become a staunch ally of the UK in recent months, will attend.

The last major gathering of world leaders for the funeral of an international statesman was in South Africa for Nelson Mandela in December 2013.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/invi ... -09d95zxg0

[ti-amie]

[ti-amie]