Random, Random 2.0

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JTContinental United States of America
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Re: Random, Random 2.0

#1186

Post by JTContinental »

ponchi101 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:28 pm How is that JT? I have yet to read anybody in this site NOT supporting LGBT+ issues: marriage, rights to adoption, rights to love whomever you want. I have yet to read somebody here that is NOT against discrimination based on sexual orientation. In TAT1.0 we were pretty vocal against the discriminatory laws in Russia and other countries. In the Religion thread (TAT1.0), many of the skeptics expressed that one of our main issues with organized religions is their treatment of LGBT+ people: the Bible's open and extremely clear definition of male homosexuality as an "abomination", which we decried (it is truly one of the reasons I detest religion, together with their treatment of women as second class people).
Our support is such that we have banned slurs, done so automatically.
So, we are in 99% of agreement with the LGBT+ community. But then, we have some disagreement on some aspects, and we almost homophobes. We go back to the perfect purity test: 99% is not good enough, it has to be 100%. We enjoy Dave Chapelle, that's it, we are transphobic. We read what JK Rowling says, and we are, again, phobes.
I say it is the opposite. People stay away from the forum because the general atmosphere is that there is no tolerance for dissenting opinions about liberal issues. The one time in which somebody called somebody else "gross" was because of the untouchable subject of equal pay, and it was the supporter for equal pay, not the person posing the question. And, again, that subject is basically impossible to discuss; one member here once said equal pay was right because it was. And that ended the discussion, which I felt was unfair.
I really don't know what else to do to make the site as open to ideas as possible.
Right off the top, I want to unequivocally state that I never once referred to you or anyone on this site as homophobic--if I thought that, I would not be here. Let's take "phobia" off the table here. But in my experience what happens is if I call anything out, the poster immediately doubles down and dismisses me as "woke," or get told my feeling is invalid and that you don't know what else you could possibly do to make us feel more included. Well, one way is to stop doing that and maybe try to receive the message I am trying to relay.

This is kind of what happens whenever this conversation is brought up--people immediately get defensive. I'm not saying that everything that you are saying above is not true--it is, but definitely more can still be done to make people feel more welcome when they call out some of the more outrageous comments that show up here. Some of the posters here have some very opinions on LGBT+ issues that are very antiquated/out-of-touch/uninformed (whatever you want to call them), and when this is pointed out, instead of trying to hear our side of the conversation, we are shut down and told basically that it us who are being rigid and inflexible, while others dig in their heels and double down on those ideas to which we are objecting. Go back and read the posts that were made during one of the French Open order of play threads when Kevin raised a red flag--one poster in particular was being over-the-top defensive, and when several TAT members who identify as LGBT+ brought this up, we were immediately shut down and made to feel like we overstepped. I very nearly quit TAT for good after that.

You are also right about what you stated above about TAT 1.0--I didn't have these feelings and experiences there. Something has shifted in the migration, though, and while I don't think it's pervasive in everyday conversation, things have come up a few times that have given me pause. I'm speaking up because I want to improve our community and would hope that everyone would want to do that.

I also want to stipulate that I love TAT and (very nearly) all of you. I realize that people contain multitudes, and can be more than one thing at once. You can enjoy Dave Chappelle and JK Rowling, likely separating art and artist, and not be homo- or transphobic. I do it all the time; I'm not a black and white person.
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Re: Random, Random 2.0

#1187

Post by AcesAnnie »

ponchi101 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:28 pm How is that JT? I have yet to read anybody in this site NOT supporting LGBT+ issues: marriage, rights to adoption, rights to love whomever you want. I have yet to read somebody here that is NOT against discrimination based on sexual orientation. In TAT1.0 we were pretty vocal against the discriminatory laws in Russia and other countries. In the Religion thread (TAT1.0), many of the skeptics expressed that one of our main issues with organized religions is their treatment of LGBT+ people: the Bible's open and extremely clear definition of male homosexuality as an "abomination", which we decried (it is truly one of the reasons I detest religion, together with their treatment of women as second class people).
Our support is such that we have banned slurs, done so automatically.
So, we are in 99% of agreement with the LGBT+ community. But then, we have some disagreement on some aspects, and we almost homophobes. We go back to the perfect purity test: 99% is not good enough, it has to be 100%. We enjoy Dave Chapelle, that's it, we are transphobic. We read what JK Rowling says, and we are, again, phobes.
I say it is the opposite. People stay away from the forum because the general atmosphere is that there is no tolerance for dissenting opinions about liberal issues. The one time in which somebody called somebody else "gross" was because of the untouchable subject of equal pay, and it was the supporter for equal pay, not the person posing the question. And, again, that subject is basically impossible to discuss; one member here once said equal pay was right because it was. And that ended the discussion, which I felt was unfair.
I really don't know what else to do to make the site as open to ideas as possible.
Being new here, but an old soul, I have to say that anywhere you bring up a topic such as religion, gender equality, sexual orientation, politics, race there is going to be some sort of debate about it. You cannot get around that. What you can control though is the quality of the debate. Keeping the debate controlled and on topic without personal attacks. Once the topic gets off track and personal attacks and name calling starts that is where it gets out of control.

I am all for a good debate on all sorts of topics, once it gets out of control then it is over for me. If you as the leader here have that sort of control or the other moderators have that under control, then there isn't anything to worry about, and the site will run great.
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Re: Random, Random 2.0

#1188

Post by ponchi101 »

AcesAnnie wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:32 pm
...
I am a strong advocate for the LGBTQ+ community, but being a new member here I wasn't going to chime in so fast on the subject. I feel as mmmm8 has stated that this is something that a person is living with and not some erroneous circumstance of live such as stress or a mental health issue that makes someone decide they want to change their gender. This is something a person is dealing with internally for a long period of time. Even as they proceed through the long process of transitioning, there is a lot of counseling that is involved. This is certainly not some going with the flow of what society is doing at the moment. Surely, back in my day when I was growing up in the 70's & 80's this was not widely accepted at all, but that did not mean that many were not dealing with the struggles of gender identity inside. So in turn, I believe social acceptance of this has helped many people.
Notice how difficult this subject is that, roughly standing on opposite areas, both JT and I feel defensive about the subject. It is not an easy topic, and many things are still to be clarified.
There is a difference between where "gender" originates and believing that you cannot switch. My position? You are Caytlin Jenner, full grown up, and want to transition? Please, get all the assistance needed, ensure the process is seamless, and be as happy as you can. I have no say on that decision of yours. You are Elliot Page? Same wishes.
But I disagree with some aspects and classifications, which all the people that fall under can tell me to go KMA. That does not mean that I would support any discriminatory legislation or attitude towards LGBT+ people. That is where I disagree that this forum is not receptive.
That is the hill I die on. I may/will disagree with your statement, but I will defend your right to hold it, as long as it is not an opinion to ban other people's rights. And still then, I will hold your right to voice it.
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Re: Random, Random 2.0

#1189

Post by ponchi101 »

AcesAnnie wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:05 pm [...

I am all for a good debate on all sorts of topics, once it gets out of control then it is over for me. If you as the leader here have that sort of control or the other moderators have that under control, then there isn't anything to worry about, and the site will run great.
My karma. The last thing I want to be is a leader; I want to be just an administrator, and mostly technical about that.
But... yes, the role is SITE ADMIN. Which I am not happy about 50% of the time.
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Re: Random, Random 2.0

#1190

Post by ti-amie »

It's a very difficult subject to address and that is why it's all the more horrific for people who are trapped in the wrong gender to be made the objects of political ridicule.

One of my daughter's in-laws is transitioning and they have met stiff resistance from their immediate family. They insist on calling them by their "dead" name among other things. It's not an easy situation for an individual to navigate.
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Re: Random, Random 2.0

#1191

Post by ti-amie »

Very well done satire by this young woman. It's been making the rounds as you can see by the number of views.

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Re: Random, Random 2.0

#1192

Post by ponchi101 »

And now, for something completely different...
:clap: :clap: :clap:
(Txs)
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Re: Random, Random 2.0

#1193

Post by AcesAnnie »

ponchi101 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:14 pm
AcesAnnie wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:32 pm
...
I am a strong advocate for the LGBTQ+ community, but being a new member here I wasn't going to chime in so fast on the subject. I feel as mmmm8 has stated that this is something that a person is living with and not some erroneous circumstance of live such as stress or a mental health issue that makes someone decide they want to change their gender. This is something a person is dealing with internally for a long period of time. Even as they proceed through the long process of transitioning, there is a lot of counseling that is involved. This is certainly not some going with the flow of what society is doing at the moment. Surely, back in my day when I was growing up in the 70's & 80's this was not widely accepted at all, but that did not mean that many were not dealing with the struggles of gender identity inside. So in turn, I believe social acceptance of this has helped many people.
Notice how difficult this subject is that, roughly standing on opposite areas, both JT and I feel defensive about the subject. It is not an easy topic, and many things are still to be clarified.
There is a difference between where "gender" originates and believing that you cannot switch. My position? You are Caytlin Jenner, full grown up, and want to transition? Please, get all the assistance needed, ensure the process is seamless, and be as happy as you can. I have no say on that decision of yours. You are Elliot Page? Same wishes.
But I disagree with some aspects and classifications, which all the people that fall under can tell me to go KMA. That does not mean that I would support any discriminatory legislation or attitude towards LGBT+ people. That is where I disagree that this forum is not receptive.
That is the hill I die on. I may/will disagree with your statement, but I will defend your right to hold it, as long as it is not an opinion to ban other people's rights. And still then, I will hold your right to voice it.
That is what it is all about, the freedom to speak you mind, to get your position across without discriminating or putting down other people. Nothing wrong with that mindset at all.
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AcesAnnie United States of America
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Re: Random, Random 2.0

#1194

Post by AcesAnnie »

ponchi101 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:15 pm
AcesAnnie wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:05 pm [...

I am all for a good debate on all sorts of topics, once it gets out of control then it is over for me. If you as the leader here have that sort of control or the other moderators have that under control, then there isn't anything to worry about, and the site will run great.
My karma. The last thing I want to be is a leader; I want to be just an administrator, and mostly technical about that.
But... yes, the role is SITE ADMIN. Which I am not happy about 50% of the time.
I can understand that.
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Re: Random, Random 2.0

#1195

Post by ti-amie »

“Do not grow old, no matter how long you live. Never cease to stand like curious children before the Great Mystery into which we were born.” Albert Einstein
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Re: Random, Random 2.0

#1196

Post by ti-amie »







“Do not grow old, no matter how long you live. Never cease to stand like curious children before the Great Mystery into which we were born.” Albert Einstein
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Re: Random, Random 2.0

#1197

Post by mmmm8 »

Oh good, we should finally find Atlantis by 2025 at this measure.
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Re: Random, Random 2.0

#1198

Post by ti-amie »

mmmm8 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:43 pm Oh good, we should finally find Atlantis by 2025 at this measure.
So real I can't even laugh. I wonder if the monuments that were flooded to create the Aswan Dam will be revealed again.
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Re: Random, Random 2.0

#1199

Post by Deuce »

Well... there's also the other extreme...

Miami Will Be Under Water...

So... which natural disaster will lead to our extinction - not enough water, or too much water?
Whichever it is, you can bet your behind that humans will be the cause of it.
R.I.P. Amal...

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Re: Random, Random 2.0

#1200

Post by Owendonovan »

I mostly feel it's too late with the climate.
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