Russian names

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mick1303 Ukraine
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Re: Russian names

#16

Post by mick1303 »

mmmm8 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:34 am Yeah, I don't think the issue is with Slavic names in particular, it just stands out to you, Mick, (and me) as a native speaker. But I do think serious fans (obviously, particularly commentators/media) have a duty to try to learn the accurate pronunciation since it is available on the internet and should certainly make a point to pronounce correctly if they've been corrected by a native speaker or the player themselves, and too many times, the commentators don't correct.

That said, I'm for sure butchering most East Asian names myself, even if I've looked up the correct pronunciation.
It's not just "on Internet". I watched the Medvedev's game the other day and umpire was pronouncing his name correctly. And you would imagine that she done it like once each 30 seconds. But Carillo was having none of that (and her co-announcer as well). They were stubborn in their incorrect pronunciation. It's like "I don't give a s**t, I will say it like it is convenient to me". This is why I mentioned disrespect in my original post.
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Re: Russian names

#17

Post by dmforever »

If I can just chime in here...

In Musetti's name, the "s" is voiced, so it's pronounced like a "z". So it's Mu zet ti .

And the other Lorenzo's last name is SO ne go, not So NE go. The stress is on the first syllable.

Thanks for this post. I think it's important to try to get names right. It shows respect. :)

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Re: Russian names

#18

Post by mick1303 »

And the worst perpetrator is of course Brad Gilbert. Who can forget "Ralph Nadal". I wonder what would be his reaction if one of interviewed players would intentionally butcher his name - in his face.
If he thinks that this is funny, then his maturity is still on the kindergarten level.
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Re: Russian names

#19

Post by mmmm8 »

mick1303 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:44 am
mmmm8 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:34 am Yeah, I don't think the issue is with Slavic names in particular, it just stands out to you, Mick, (and me) as a native speaker. But I do think serious fans (obviously, particularly commentators/media) have a duty to try to learn the accurate pronunciation since it is available on the internet and should certainly make a point to pronounce correctly if they've been corrected by a native speaker or the player themselves, and too many times, the commentators don't correct.

That said, I'm for sure butchering most East Asian names myself, even if I've looked up the correct pronunciation.
It's not just "on Internet". I watched the Medvedev's game the other day and umpire was pronouncing his name correctly. And you would imagine that she done it like once each 30 seconds. But Carillo was having none of that (and her co-announcer as well). They were stubborn in their incorrect pronunciation. It's like "I don't give a s**t, I will say it like it is convenient to me". This is why I mentioned disrespect in my original post.
Yes, I was agreeing with you.
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Re: Russian names

#20

Post by mmmm8 »

mick1303 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:28 am And the worst perpetrator is of course Brad Gilbert. Who can forget "Ralph Nadal". I wonder what would be his reaction if one of interviewed players would intentionally butcher his name - in his face.
If he thinks that this is funny, then his maturity is still on the kindergarten level.
After he pronounced Gilles Simon's last name like the English first name, some fans started saying Giblert in a francophone manner for fun - "Jill-Bear." That didn't stick for that many, but I know I still say it that way for fun. :)

And, yes, the only ones putting in the effort are the umpires (at least many/most of them). Of course, many of them are not native anglophones and have had their names butchered too.
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Re: Russian names

#21

Post by mick1303 »

Players can communicate with umpires and just outright say that "You're pronouncing my name incorrectly". First that I know who's done that was Sveta Kuznetsova. She was fed up with Kuzn-E-tsova. Correct pronunciation is Kuznets-O-va.
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Re: Russian names

#22

Post by eusebius »

Honestly, it's just common courtesy. Sometimes I think the players should start saying John Mc -EN-roe or Pam SHREE-ver just to make a point. I heard someone saying SWYE-a-tek the other day. And if the NA commentators say a name a particular way, all the fans in North America think that's how you're supposed to say it, so there's a certain responsibility there too.

Thanks for educating us on Slavic names, Mick! I truly appreciate it.
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Re: Russian names

#23

Post by dmforever »

mick1303 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:28 am And the worst perpetrator is of course Brad Gilbert. Who can forget "Ralph Nadal". I wonder what would be his reaction if one of interviewed players would intentionally butcher his name - in his face.
If he thinks that this is funny, then his maturity is still on the kindergarten level.
I like some things about BG, but you are totally right on this one. It's like he is proud of his monolingualism. He gleefully mispronounces names all the time. :(

I have one question about correct pronunciation of Slavic names. Is there a rule? I tried to generalize from the examples that you so graciously gave, and it seemed like the syllable before the "ova" suffix was the stressed syllable. But then in the Kuznetsova example it's different. Thanks in advance for any linguistic help you can provide. :)

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Re: Russian names

#24

Post by mick1303 »

dmforever wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:32 pm I like some things about BG, but you are totally right on this one. It's like he is proud of his monolingualism. He gleefully mispronounces names all the time. :(

I have one question about correct pronunciation of Slavic names. Is there a rule? I tried to generalize from the examples that you so graciously gave, and it seemed like the syllable before the "ova" suffix was the stressed syllable. But then in the Kuznetsova example it's different. Thanks in advance for any linguistic help you can provide. :)

Kevin
Kevin, there are some common (similar) cases, but unfortunately there is no "rule", because names carry historical heritage and it could be different in any particular case. Russia has some commonality with US in a sense that it was a boiling pot, where many cultures made their contributions over centuries. To make matters worse, in some cases the name that is spelled exactly the same can be pronounced differently )). The famous example is Ivan-O-V vs Iv-A-nov. Both variations exist. Responsible people would simply ask the player himself/herself. As eusebius pointed out - this is just common courtesy.
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Re: Russian names

#25

Post by dmforever »

mick1303 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:49 pm
dmforever wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:32 pm I like some things about BG, but you are totally right on this one. It's like he is proud of his monolingualism. He gleefully mispronounces names all the time. :(

I have one question about correct pronunciation of Slavic names. Is there a rule? I tried to generalize from the examples that you so graciously gave, and it seemed like the syllable before the "ova" suffix was the stressed syllable. But then in the Kuznetsova example it's different. Thanks in advance for any linguistic help you can provide. :)

Kevin
Kevin, there are some common (similar) cases, but unfortunately there is no "rule", because names carry historical heritage and it could be different in any particular case. Russia has some commonality with US in a sense that it was a boiling pot, where many cultures made their contributions over centuries. To make matters worse, in some cases the name that is spelled exactly the same can be pronounced differently )). The famous example is Ivan-O-V vs Iv-A-nov. Both variations exist. Responsible people would simply ask the player himself/herself. As eusebius pointed out - this is just common courtesy.
Thank you! But since there isn't a rule, I hope players can understand why we fans at home get it wrong. But for sure commentators can and should get it right. I think both tours are asking players to say their names correctly and then making those audio clips available on their websites, right?

And per someone (Ti-Amie?) else's great idea, I just looked on forvo.com for the pronunciation of Svetlana's and Daniil's names. Svetlana's is pending, and Daniil's is there (though if you don't read Russian you kind of have to guess that what you clicked on is the right choice) and it was actually very hard for me to hear where the stress was in his last name.

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Re: Russian names

#26

Post by Suliso »

Actually google translate does a pretty good job with a couple Russian names I tried including Kuznetsova and Medvedev.

For example try Vladivostok (Russian far eastern city) in both English and Russian.
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Re: Russian names

#27

Post by ponchi101 »

dmforever wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:34 pm ...

Thank you! But since there isn't a rule, I hope players can understand why we fans at home get it wrong. But for sure commentators can and should get it right. I think both tours are asking players to say their names correctly and then making those audio clips available on their websites, right?

And per someone (Ti-Amie?) else's great idea, I just looked on forvo.com for the pronunciation of Svetlana's and Daniil's names. Svetlana's is pending, and Daniil's is there (though if you don't read Russian you kind of have to guess that what you clicked on is the right choice) and it was actually very hard for me to hear where the stress was in his last name.

Kevin
If Michael Schumacher had a Euro for every time Latin American sportscasters called him MICHAEL (as in American pronunciation) SHOE-MA-CARE (I am trying to imitate Spanish pronunciations) he would be even wealthier.
Languages are difficult, and we are in perhaps only the second generation of real globalization. I wonder how badly we are butchering Asian names when we mention them.
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Re: Russian names

#28

Post by Suliso »

We might be, but then again how wrong can one be with something like Na Li?
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Re: Russian names

#29

Post by dmforever »

Suliso wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:48 pm Actually google translate does a pretty good job with a couple Russian names I tried including Kuznetsova and Medvedev.

For example try Vladivostok (Russian far eastern city) in both English and Russian.
Cool. Thanks. :) Yes, they were better than forvo. ;)

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Re: Russian names

#30

Post by dmforever »

Suliso wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:59 pm We might be, but then again how wrong can one be with something like Na Li?
Mandarin has tones, so we were probably wrong. :)

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